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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from coast to coast am on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back George Norri with you. Author, researcher, and

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Speaker 2: producer Tob Johnson with Us has spent decades chasing the

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Speaker 2: incredible stories of sasquatch, UFOs and the paranormal as they

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Speaker 2: collide together. Tobe has dedicated his life to unraveling the

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Speaker 2: bigger picture behind Bigfoot, exploring its connection to high strangeness, consciousness,

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Speaker 2: and the unseen forces shaping our reality. His latest book

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Speaker 2: is called The Owl Moon Lab of Paranormal Experiment. Tobe,

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the program.

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Speaker 3: George Norri, what an honor.

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Speaker 2: Thank you have you been.

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Speaker 4: I've been good, sir. It's good to hear your voice.

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Speaker 2: How did you get involved in bigfoot hunting?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, all these bigfoot stories are a little

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Speaker 4: bit lengthy. I'll give you the cliff Notes version here

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Speaker 4: circa two thousand and five time frame.

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Speaker 3: My son Knife.

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Speaker 4: Found a footprint in the mud heading into the BlackBerry brambles.

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Speaker 4: It got her larger. Story started for father and son,

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Speaker 4: and we found out that bigfoot really wasn't a joke.

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Speaker 4: It was something that other witnesses had seen time and

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Speaker 4: time again, river guides, police officers, county officials. And so

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Speaker 4: I started to put all these people together in a

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Speaker 4: sleepy little bar in the Cascade Wilderness, a place called

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Speaker 4: Ike's Pizza, and once a month we would kind of divulge,

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Speaker 4: kind of like an AA meeting, our addiction for the phenomena,

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Speaker 4: where witnesses and enthusiasts would come together, and you know,

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Speaker 4: the trap was set.

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Speaker 2: George, you'd bitch it didn't it?

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Speaker 3: It did.

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Speaker 4: It took a big old bite out of me. So

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Speaker 4: here we are, still twenty years later.

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Speaker 2: What did you start to conclude, Tobe.

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Speaker 4: Well, at first, it just seemed that there were obvious

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Speaker 4: two camps. That there were the people that were looking

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Speaker 4: at this from Newtonian natural science, that this was an

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Speaker 4: evolved species explained by a fossil record that was looking

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Speaker 4: at something called Gigantopithecus Blackie. And this was, you know,

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Speaker 4: the naturalist theory. But then there was this other side

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Speaker 4: that was somewhat tempting and alluring that said that this

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Speaker 4: was connected to all the other mystery schools, including ghosts

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Speaker 4: and UFOs. And that was the shorter road for me,

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Speaker 4: because it seemed to produce more evidence that this is

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Speaker 4: why it's so elusive, this is why the evidence is

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Speaker 4: always falling short.

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Speaker 3: And that.

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Speaker 4: I started to experience these supernatural things in concert while

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Speaker 4: I was falling up on eyewitness sightings in the Cascade Wilderness.

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Speaker 2: Is that the path tob that you eventually went down

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Speaker 2: to believe that sasquatch is more supernatural than a physical being.

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Speaker 4: Well, the Native Americans told me that from the get

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Speaker 4: and they pretty much just said, you know, you'll find

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Speaker 4: out on your own and just approach this with respect

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Speaker 4: and honor, and so I did, and it seemed to

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Speaker 4: produce the results that indeed, this is something that is

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Speaker 4: more supernaturally based than it is physical. Although there is

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Speaker 4: physical aspects to it, but they can't be really measured

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Speaker 4: or filmed, you know, And it should be something, if

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Speaker 4: it is natural, that should be measured and filmed and study.

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Speaker 2: What convinced you finally that it was more towards the supernatural.

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Speaker 4: Well, for me, it was the lights, George, it was

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Speaker 4: seeing these doggdon orbs. This is one of the first

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Speaker 4: things that happened to me in what I would call

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Speaker 4: an extended experience or a Sasquatch contact. These property, these

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Speaker 4: people exist all over the planet, but we're just talking

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Speaker 4: about Oregon right now. And so when I locked in

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Speaker 4: a piece of property in the little town of Vida, Oregon,

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Speaker 4: I saw these inexplicable, giant burst of white light that

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Speaker 4: could not be explained. And this was in concert to

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Speaker 4: finding footprints, having something run up behind me and stop

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Speaker 4: within twelve inches from my backside, having my tent moved

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Speaker 4: forty nine feet and stuck on top of a tree,

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Speaker 4: and so all the telltale signs of witnesses saying, you know,

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Speaker 4: we have this eight foot tall shadow, several of them

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Speaker 4: prowling our property. To have the orbs in concert with

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Speaker 4: that seemed to be beckoning me to look deeper at

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Speaker 4: the supernatural link.

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Speaker 2: Did you have witnesses along with you, tob.

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Speaker 3: I did, Yeah, I did.

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Speaker 4: That always helps, of course, because this can really drive

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Speaker 4: a person mad for the fact that a lot of

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Speaker 4: the stuff you just can't prove and you can't get

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Speaker 4: a picture of because it's so fleeting. This, you know,

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Speaker 4: goes down into the documentary that we're doing here. A

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Speaker 4: flash of beauty, which you know is described by one

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Speaker 4: of the witnesses, Stan Avery, it's Bigfoot being just kind

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Speaker 4: of this flash of enigmatic qualities and sometimes beautiful, sometimes horrifying,

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Speaker 4: and so these are you know, it's a world, it's

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Speaker 4: a grab bag really of mystery.

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Speaker 2: And there are families of them I assume are there.

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Speaker 4: Well yeah, because there there seems to be this humanity

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Speaker 4: to whatever they are, you know, as enigmatic as this mystery,

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Speaker 4: as there is this personhood to them. And we need

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Speaker 4: look no further than the Sierra Sounds to talk about

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Speaker 4: there being language and Georgia, if there's languages, researcher Scott

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Speaker 4: Nelson said, working in tandem with Ron Moorehead, you know,

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Speaker 4: he's looked at language as being a telltale sign that

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Speaker 4: there is humanity because if we do have language, then

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Speaker 4: we have a culture, because there is no language without

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Speaker 4: there being a culture adaptation. And having heard this language

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Speaker 4: firsthand George and the little town of Cottage Grove, I

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Speaker 4: can tell you that there is this humanity to them.

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Speaker 2: Tell them do they come and go or do they

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Speaker 2: come and stay?

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Speaker 4: Well, they can come and stay, especially if you're on

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Speaker 4: one of these Sasquatch contact these property where they have

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Speaker 4: the Jane goodall.

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Speaker 3: Kind of effect happening.

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Speaker 4: They kind of embed themselves and trust this relationship through

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Speaker 4: this gifting process of bringing things and taking things, and

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Speaker 4: that seems to amp up over time and trust develops

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Speaker 4: between you and this I hate to use word species,

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Speaker 4: but culture. And so this is what happened to me.

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Speaker 4: This is the road that I always ened of going down.

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Speaker 4: It's the ultimate research gift is to find a piece

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Speaker 4: of land where you can kind of lock it down,

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Speaker 4: you know, like Skinwalker ranch style, and study it a

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Speaker 4: living laboratory.

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Speaker 2: Kind of panas a picture of the terrain that they

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Speaker 2: would frequent.

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Speaker 4: Well, in this case, it's the tall trees, it's the

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Speaker 4: doug Firs, George, It's the mighty cedar forest. And as

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Speaker 4: they slope down in the Unquah Wilderness to the small

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Speaker 4: ranch house of the al Moon Lab property owners garyl

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Speaker 4: and Cindy Adams, who would invite me to live there

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Speaker 4: and study this phenomena. You know, we're picturing rural farms

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Speaker 4: kind of in a parabolic dish shaped valley where a

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Speaker 4: river runs through it, filled with quartz, gold, natural springs

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Speaker 4: and the phenomena.

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Speaker 2: What would you say was the biggest influence on the

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Speaker 2: way you researched these beans.

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Speaker 4: I would say the biggest influence I had was you know,

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Speaker 4: the predecessors of people that I had followed, including the

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Speaker 4: likes of someone like Ron Moorehead and Tom Powell and

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Speaker 4: Henry Franzoni. These were kind of like the Pacific Northwest

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Speaker 4: three Horsemen that I leaned on to just kind of

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Speaker 4: listen to what worked and what didn't work, and they

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Speaker 4: were saying strange stuff. George like, in order to study

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Speaker 4: this phenomenon, you have to kind of let it study.

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Speaker 4: You don't go looking for them, just hang back and

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Speaker 4: let them kind of vibe you out. And that's just goes,

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Speaker 4: you know, counterintuitive when you're looking for an undocumented, natural answer.

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Speaker 3: It seemed to be the way to go, though.

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Speaker 2: Tob you're a producer, you've done documentaries on the wilderness.

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Speaker 2: What do you think of the Patterson Gimlin film.

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Speaker 3: Well, I love it for me. It just keeps on showing.

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Speaker 4: More and more about the reality of what Patterson and

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Speaker 4: Gimlin caught that faithful day. There's new studies being done

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Speaker 4: and looked at through the work of a guy named

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Speaker 4: Todd Gatewood who's enhancing these photos one frame at a time,

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Speaker 4: and it's showing again that this is cannot be a

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Speaker 4: suit just based upon the fact that there was no

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Speaker 4: Hoam Latex to utilize.

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Speaker 3: Back in sixty seven, you had the.

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Speaker 4: Creators of Planet of the Apes and reps from Disney

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Speaker 4: that we're saying that, you know, if someone faked this,

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Speaker 4: we would have hired him by Now, what do you.

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Speaker 2: Think of the spoken word of the Sasquatch contactees? What

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Speaker 2: are they?

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Speaker 4: Well, the spoken word of the Sasquatch contact these well,

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Speaker 4: let's just take apart again with a Sasquatch contact. I

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Speaker 4: mean it's kind of a loaded word, George, just based

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Speaker 4: upon the fact contact E is, you know, pointing towards

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Speaker 4: people that have UFO experiences and they've been utterly changed,

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Speaker 4: much like the character ruined, and you know, close encounters

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Speaker 4: of the third kind, same kind of phenomena where people

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Speaker 4: get obsessed by either a fleeting encounter or long term encounter.

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Speaker 4: And it seems to be related to this UFO conundrum

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Speaker 4: as well, because a lot of these lights aren't just

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Speaker 4: lights in the woods, they're also craft that appear to

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Speaker 4: people as well. And if you talk to people like

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Speaker 4: Linda Milton, Hell should tell you that people that have

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Speaker 4: been abducted also see Harry humanoids on craft with them

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Speaker 4: as though they've been abducted along for the ride. So

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Speaker 4: this is the world of the Sasquatch contechte that generally

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Speaker 4: isn't spoken about. You know, it's kind of in snickers

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Speaker 4: if it is. But it's a serious world because of

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Speaker 4: the fact that it changes your perspective, your whole worldview,

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Speaker 4: and you just for the most part, can't put this

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Speaker 4: mystery down.

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Speaker 2: Our guest is Tob Johnson. He is an author, producer

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Speaker 2: and researcher has been hunting Bigfoot for how many years now?

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Speaker 4: Tob, I think we're getting up on twenty George.

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Speaker 2: Wow, how do people see your documentaries?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'd love it if they did.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you can go check out a Flash of.

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Speaker 3: Beauty Bigfoot Revealed.

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Speaker 4: That's part one, and then a Flash of Beauty Paranormal Bigfoot.

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Speaker 4: But we also have a Flash of Beauty three coming

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Speaker 4: out from the First Nation's perspective coming out sometime expected

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty five, twenty twenty six. And then our penultimate

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Speaker 4: film coming out here on the Voices in the Wilderness

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Speaker 4: that gets into the story of what not only happened

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Speaker 4: to the guys in the High Sierras with Ron Moorehead's

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Speaker 4: case and language, but beyond that the rest of the

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Speaker 4: people that discovered the camp, and they're incredible encounters as well.

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Speaker 2: Tob What is the tailor effect tailor?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well that was an aim coined by an old

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Speaker 4: roommate of mine, and the tailor effect really is kind

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Speaker 4: of encapsulates what's happening here because this phenomena provides moments

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Speaker 4: of its visibility and its contact with you. It's trickster element,

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Speaker 4: and it leaves you these inexplicable gifts, including approtations that

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Speaker 4: happen out of nowhere, things that you've just spoken about, gifts,

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Speaker 4: you know, laid inexplicable spots, including your vehicle, including your

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Speaker 4: locked house, that are related to personal moments in your life.

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Speaker 4: And they're so inexplicable, so bizarre, so crazy, that you

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Speaker 4: can't really share them with anybody else because they may

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Speaker 4: seem minute.

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Speaker 3: For example, the tailor effect.

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Speaker 4: Of something being perfectly sized up for you, like a

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Speaker 4: tailored suit for you, and you only is a moment

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Speaker 4: where I had a cell phone that was on the fritz.

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Speaker 4: George Point, I'm already living on this property that we're

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Speaker 4: calling the al Moon Lab and Cottage Grove, Oregon. We're

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Speaker 4: having an abundance of supernatural activity.

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Speaker 3: And the bass layer is Bigfoot.

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Speaker 4: And so as I had these cell phone issues, I

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Speaker 4: bring this up to the property owner and three days later,

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Speaker 4: under the ore of my boat, my aluminum boat, was

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Speaker 4: a muddy cell phone that was set kind of hidden

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Speaker 4: under the ore of my boat. Now that was familiar territory,

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Speaker 4: that something was paying attention to a conversation I always had.

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Speaker 4: And these are the kind of strange gifts that you

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Speaker 4: can't really tell anybody about because it just sounds too

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Speaker 4: crazy that, you know, something found a muddy cell phone

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Speaker 4: and it basically kind of like a genie a lamp is,

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Speaker 4: you know, meeting a wish with a little bit of

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Speaker 4: a wink and a nod and.

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Speaker 2: They can understand what you're talking about.

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Speaker 4: Well, language isn't a barrier for them, because mind speak

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Speaker 4: is a part of this journey. If you can something

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Speaker 4: that is not your voice communicating with you to come

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Speaker 4: and go, stay, give you directions on certain things to do.

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Speaker 4: These are what the Sasquatch contactes are saying that they

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Speaker 4: has happened to them. Now, for the most part, that

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Speaker 4: has never happened to me. I've kind of had to

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Speaker 4: live off the experience of the Sasquatch contact these to

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Speaker 4: kind of explore how this whole thing works. Although I've

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Speaker 4: had strange stuff happen to me as well, I don't

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Speaker 4: think I'm marked, And I think some of these contactees

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Speaker 4: they're kind of marked.

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Speaker 3: For whatever reason. They're magnets.

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Speaker 4: Now, what do you mean by that, Well, they seem

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Speaker 4: to be kind of chosen. They're usually experiencers of other

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Speaker 4: strange stuff that happened to them in childhood, including their

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Speaker 4: mother and father. But most of the contactes I've met

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Speaker 4: had a lifetime of experience, either with a paranormal, super

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Speaker 4: natural near death, or very strange events happening early on.

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Speaker 4: And that's not always the case, but it's one of

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Speaker 4: the things that I penned down over years.

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Speaker 2: How would you say that Sasquatch reacts with humans?

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Speaker 3: Tobe, Well, George, For the most part, it's it's there.

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Speaker 4: It seems to be their job to keep distance from humans,

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Speaker 4: and so for that, I don't think we're talking about

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Speaker 4: something that's really scary or dangerous. If it is scary dangerous,

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Speaker 4: I think it's really an ultimate warning that you should

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Speaker 4: leave for whatever reason. Now, there's other stories out there

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Speaker 4: that would say differently, but for the most part they

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Speaker 4: seem to be kind of disconnected from humanity.

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Speaker 2: You talked about the orbs, but how did you tie

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Speaker 2: in the pure normal aspect with sasquatch.

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Speaker 4: Well, the orbs really refuse to go away, and they

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Speaker 4: were in concert to things like footsteps, rock throwing, shadows, gifts,

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Speaker 4: full on sightings, eye glow, which is far different than

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Speaker 4: eyeshine because now we're talking about something that's putting.

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Speaker 3: Out its own light.

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Speaker 4: And so the orbs really can't be understated for just

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Speaker 4: how enigmatic they are.

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Speaker 3: And we talk about that in.

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Speaker 4: Our second documentary, Flash of Beauty Paranormal Bigfoot, with scientist

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Speaker 4: doctor Simeon Hine, who kind of explains what's happening with

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Speaker 4: something called relic neutrinos, which basically his theory is that

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Speaker 4: the building blocks of the Big Bang theory diverged into

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Speaker 4: two separate.

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Speaker 3: Pathways.

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Speaker 4: One was kind of this energy evolution and one was

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Speaker 4: this flesh of blood evolution. And whatever Bigfoot is kind

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Speaker 4: of evolved into something tantamount to ball lightning. And so

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Speaker 4: a lot of these enigmatic gaseous orbs or plasmoids they

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Speaker 4: call them, now they seem to take form in and

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Speaker 4: out of these balls of light as though they themselves

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Speaker 4: are these plasma, you know, balls which very in size

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Speaker 4: and shape. And our documentary we talked to a couple

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Speaker 4: of witnesses that see a cube of yellow light that

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Speaker 4: is transformed previously from this kind of orangutang looking bigfoot

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Speaker 4: standing in.

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Speaker 3: The middle of the road.

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Speaker 4: And these guys are so compelling, so believable that you can,

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Speaker 4: you know, see the goosebumps on their arms as they're

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Speaker 4: telling the story.

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Speaker 2: Tob where do you think Sasquatch is from a different

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Speaker 2: universe other dimensions.

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Speaker 4: Where well, they seem to be between the pages of

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Speaker 4: the story. And that's as you know, that sounds like

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Speaker 4: a mysterious quote. But this is such a mysterious thing,

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Speaker 4: right like whatever is happening here with the visitors and

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Speaker 4: what's coming right now with disclosure of the UFOs and us,

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Speaker 4: they seem to be leaning on telling us a different

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Speaker 4: story other than Zeta reticuli and outer space. They keep

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Speaker 4: on mentioning inner space. And I think this is the

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Speaker 4: issue that we're dealing with right now, is that we're

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Speaker 4: dealing with something that is transdimensional. And this is the

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Speaker 4: story that the Native Americans also basically explained to me

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Speaker 4: along the years, is that this is, you know, a

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Speaker 4: hairy forest friend or a different tribe.

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Speaker 3: But they come between two worlds.

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Speaker 2: What kind of intelligence do they possess?

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Speaker 4: Well, the ones I met seem to have vast intelligence

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Speaker 4: and a vast sense of irony and humor. They love

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Speaker 4: to play games and tricks. Most of the personality profile.

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Speaker 3: Seems to fit.

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Speaker 4: What I would say is kind of like teenage prankster

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Speaker 4: kind of stuff, frat boy behavior. You can kind of

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Speaker 4: imagine them sitting at the edge of the BlackBerry brambles

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Speaker 4: watching you find their crazy sense of humor on display

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Speaker 4: with a funny gift or a strange print, and you know,

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Speaker 4: we got.

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Speaker 3: Really close to them, George.

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Speaker 4: They would come in on this property damn near nightly,

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Speaker 4: sometimes during the day.

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Speaker 3: And was it always bigfoot? Well, we didn't really know.

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Speaker 4: But when you see these size fifteen inch footprints stamp

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Speaker 4: down into the gravel, you know with toes that's impossible

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Speaker 4: to do. It's almost impossible to even hope something like that.

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