1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: The bombing of Harvey's Casino in Lake Tahoe, Nevada is 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: one of the great overlooked capers. It's kind of nuts 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: how anything like the Harvey's bombing could ever be forgotten 4 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: considering the outcome. This episode has it all. A great 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: plot in competent criminals, an amazingly well designed bomb, and 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: a huge explosion. And it's made even cooler somehow because 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: it takes place in nineteen eighty plus no one dies, 8 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: which makes it okay for me to call this episode 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: kind of charming. Enjoy. 10 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 11 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 12 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: Chuck and Jerry's here and this is Stuff you Should Know. 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: The true crime edition where nobody gets hurt. Isn't that amazing? 14 00:00:55,160 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think this falls into our sort of caper edith. 15 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: Yes, well put well put edition. Do we have any 16 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: other capers? 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, like the Chow Chilli kidnapping And I think any 18 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: non murder crime podcast I think would fall under this. TB. 19 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: Cooper right exactly. And before I forget Chuck, that was 20 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: definitely a caper. Good call. This was a request which, 21 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: like you said last time. We've been doing a lot 22 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: of these lately, but this one's requested by Nick Hales, 23 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: and I say, good request Nick, Thanks for that, And 24 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: I totally spaced on shouting out Neil Stevens from the 25 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 1: UK for Georgia Guideston's episode. He requested it and gave 26 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: me the idea to do it. 27 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 2: All right, nice work. This one was so familiar to 28 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 2: me that I was sure that we had either touched 29 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: on it or that I saw. What I really thought 30 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: was that I saw a documentary about it, but I 31 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 2: hadn't because I don't think there's been one. I don't 32 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 2: know what it is. It was really familiar with some 33 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 2: other true life thing that I saw. 34 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, but the fact that 35 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: there's not a movie about this is insane. 36 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if it's movie worthy. 37 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: Oh really? Yeah? Oh man, just like the pork Chop 38 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: Sideburns alone, I think would warrant a movie. But because 39 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: I said pork chop Sideburns, of course we're talking about 40 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, right, Chuck, August twenty sixth, nineteen eighty. 41 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 2: That's right. And on August twenty sixth, nineteen eighty very 42 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 2: early in the morning. A couple of delivery dudes would 43 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: be delivery dudes wield a big piece of equipment, had 44 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: a cover on it, said IBM into Harvey's Resort Hotel 45 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 2: in Lake Tahoe, Nevada. Shout out to our buddy, Aaron 46 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 2: Hagar representing Lake in Tahoe. Oh yeah, he's got it 47 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 2: made out there in Tahoe. Nice except for the bears 48 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 2: and wildfires. 49 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 1: I'll bet he's heard of this story. 50 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 2: Then, I bet you he has. We'll hear from him 51 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: on this. But anyway, they wheeled in there, up to 52 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: the second floor offices and dropped it off and basically 53 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 2: skid autled. After that, they had a guy waiting in 54 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: a van outside and drove them the heck out of there. 55 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's kind of weird five am to drop 56 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: off a piece of office equipment, not waiting around for 57 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: everybody to sign it. Kind of odd. And within an 58 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: hour the oddity behind it kind of became really apparent. 59 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: A slot manager, I believe, or maybe the night manager 60 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: in general, he noticed this piece of office equipment that 61 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: was kind of randomly placed on the second floor offices, 62 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: and he saw that there was a note by it, 63 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: and he gathered some other employees and they were all 64 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: kind of hanging out reading the note. And one of 65 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: the details I love that I saw in a Adam 66 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: higginbottom article on the atavist was that one of the 67 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: people reading the note was leaning up against the machine 68 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: while they were reading the note. 69 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 2: All right, the notes, sid, Should we read the note? 70 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, because then it makes the whole thing about somebody 71 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: leaning up against it really hilarious. 72 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: All right, stern warning to the management and bomb squad, 73 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 2: in which case I would have been out of there. 74 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: That's all I need to hear, right exactly. Do not 75 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: move or tilt this bomb because the mechanism controlling the 76 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: detonators in it will set it off at a movement 77 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 2: of less than point zero one of the open end 78 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 2: Richter scale. So let's confuse people right out of the gate. 79 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 2: Is with this note, is what this guy's thinking. Sure, 80 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: don't try to flood or gas the bomb. There's a 81 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 2: float switch and an atmosphere pressure switch set at two 82 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 2: numbers twenty six point zero zero to thirty three. Both 83 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: are attached to detonators. Do not try to take it apart. 84 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 2: The flathead screws are attached to triggers, and as much 85 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 2: of a quarter to three quarters of a turn will 86 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: cause the explosion. In other words, this bomb is so 87 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 2: sensitive that the slightest movement, either inside or outside, will 88 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 2: cause it to explode full stop. 89 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: Yeah. And you can guess the person leaning against the 90 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: machine stood up and moved away from it, right. 91 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 2: That's right. And basically they said, I love that part. 92 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 2: No one can detonate or no one can can deactivate 93 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: this bomb, not even I, not even the creator can 94 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 2: diffuse this thing. So it is going to go off 95 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 2: at some point. Your best hope of not getting hurt 96 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 2: is to pay a three thousand dollars ransom, and you're 97 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 2: going to receive instructions on how to move it out 98 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: of here so it can explode somewhere else. 99 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it would have been a bargain for three 100 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. There was actually a three million dollar ransom 101 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: and to save three thousand you did, I think you 102 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: were being optimistic. Yeah, but it was a it was 103 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: a big fat ransom. And the bomb itself, I mean, 104 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: if you just look at the at the ransom note 105 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: when it's talking about the bomb, that's a pretty amazing bomb. 106 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: And It actually became pretty legendary with the FBI, so 107 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: much so that I saw that they still I don't 108 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: know if they still do today, but for many years 109 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: they used it as a teaching model for bomb technicians, 110 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: and the FBI considered it very sophisticated, and they, I said, 111 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: it was unlike anything any bomb technician had ever seen before. 112 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: No one had ever made a bomb like this. 113 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, very good bomb, if there was such a thing. 114 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,239 Speaker 2: It was a couple of stacked boxes ligned with metal 115 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 2: and rubber that through conventional methods, you couldn't separate, of 116 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 2: course without it going boom. And so that FBI did 117 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 2: what they do in this case. They come in, they 118 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: start taking pictures, they X ray it, they sweep it 119 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 2: for fingerprints. Obviously, they don't move it. They find out 120 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 2: that it has about a thousand pounds of dynamite inside. Yeah, 121 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 2: and they can't find a way to Like basically they're saying, 122 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: this note seems to be right on the money, Like 123 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: we can't find a way at least right off the 124 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: bat about how to diffuse this thing safely. 125 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, and very famously, the bomb technicians in the room 126 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: started running around in aimless circles saying, oh my god, 127 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: oh my god, oh my god. And they did that 128 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: for a good three hours, I think before somebody stepped 129 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: in and stopped them. But that handsome note also showed 130 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: a lot of planning, not just the bomb. This bomb 131 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: was amazing, just full stop, amazing, one to really be 132 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: proud of if you were a bomb maker. But the 133 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: actual heist itself had like a real shot at extorting 134 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: this three million dollars successfully. And it started with they 135 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: knew what they were doing. Out of the gate. They said, 136 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,679 Speaker 1: we want three million dollars in used bills, one hundred 137 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: dollars bills already used, not marked, not bug don't even 138 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: try to chemically treat them. And we want you to 139 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: fly a helicopter to Lake Tahoe Airport, have the pilot 140 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: land by the payphone, and wait by the payphone for instructions. 141 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: Our instruction is going to come from the payphone. Who knows. 142 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: They could also come by taxi. They could also come 143 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: by carrier pigeon. I'm making that last one up. But 144 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: they were just trying out of the gate to confuse 145 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: them so that they couldn't plan for everything. And it 146 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: was I think it was a really well planned heist. 147 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean basically said, no one involved from this 148 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 2: point that you meet up with, like anyone that might 149 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 2: deliver a note, any someone that might drive a vehicle 150 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 2: that's involved, Like, no one's going to know anything, So 151 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: don't bother. And I think I believe that that's probably true. 152 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 2: They said that the you know, I the creator of 153 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 2: the bomb, I'm not going to be a part of 154 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: this money drop. I'm not going to be around Nobody 155 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 2: that's a part of any of this exchange of money 156 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 2: is going to know anything about how to diffuse this bomb. Like, 157 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 2: this thing is going to go off and there's nothing 158 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 2: you can do to stop it. Again, the only thing 159 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: that you can do is follow what will ultimately be 160 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 2: six sets of instructions to safely get this bomb out 161 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 2: of there after I get my loot. 162 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, after he gets the loot or they so, the 163 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: first set of instructions was going to be given to 164 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: the helicopter pilot. The rest of the instructions would arrive 165 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: through the local post office, which is putting a lot 166 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 1: of a lot of faith in the USPS. But then 167 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: there was another demand too, that was probably the most 168 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: ridiculous demand of all. They said that all news media, 169 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: local or national was to be kept ignorant of the 170 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: heist until the bomb was successfully removed, right, yeah, And 171 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: that was impossible, totally impossible because the first thing the 172 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: cops did when they realized like this is for real, 173 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: which they figured out pretty quickly. I think the thing 174 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: was discovered before six am, and by seven or eight 175 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 1: at the very latest, they were rousing hotel guests at Harvey's, 176 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: many of them from sleep, telling them like, nope, you 177 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: don't have time to grab your belongings. You got to go. 178 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: And not only did they evacuate Harvey's. A thousand pounds 179 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: of dynamite can do some real damage, they actually evacuated 180 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: heras across the street from Harvey's too. 181 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, so they said you're all going to go to 182 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 2: this nearby high school. And of course the media it's 183 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 2: a big thing when that happens, when people are being 184 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 2: like massively bust out in their bathrobes and stuff. So 185 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: basically within a few hours, like all the media knows this, 186 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 2: they cordon off the area. There's people hanging out, there's gawkers, 187 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: there's reporters, there's before you know it, of course, because 188 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 2: there's casinos around there. They're taking bets, of course, like 189 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: over under on whether this thing's going to detonate. And 190 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 2: not only did they not keep the media out of it, 191 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 2: but it became like I mean, call the sensation indicates 192 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 2: that it drug on. It was like a day and change, 193 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: but it was a crazy day and change for the 194 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 2: media for sure. 195 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: And it was over the week before Labor Day weekend, 196 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: so Tahoe was crawling with people. And this was nineteen 197 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: eighty right, just thirty six years before the first casino 198 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: was opened on the south shore of Lake Tahoe. And 199 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: it was opened by the same guy who's hotel now 200 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: how to bomb in it, Harvey Gross. His first thing 201 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: was Harvey's wagon Wheel Saloon and gambling Hall, which I 202 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: saw described as a cabin that had six slot machines 203 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,719 Speaker 1: in it. And at the time in Tahoe Chuck there 204 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: was no phone, no water, no sewer, no power lines. 205 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: The roads would close at like the first sign of snow, 206 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: and it was like a real podunk area. But gambling 207 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: made it actually put it on the map. 208 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 2: For a second there. I thought you were going to say, 209 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 2: not a single luxury. 210 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: Oh man, I really should have I wish I had 211 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: I'm not on my game today. 212 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 2: Like Robinson Caruso. There were what primitives can be. 213 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: Right, that's what they said. But it was the sixties. 214 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: You wouldn't say that anymore. 215 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 2: So things go great for Harvey and his little wagon 216 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 2: wheel cabin. You know, it's on the state line of California. 217 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 2: So that's a pretty smart thing because you get those 218 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 2: out of staters, those richies from California throwing down some money. 219 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was so on the state line. It 220 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: was in a town called state Line. 221 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 2: That's very Nevada. 222 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 1: It's very on the nose. I'm so nervous about us 223 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: saying it the right way because those people will email 224 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: you like Gangbusters. 225 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 2: Oh it's Nevada. But I always say Nevada. 226 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:11,719 Speaker 1: Okay, but they say it Nevada. 227 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone outside the state of Nevada says Nevada. And 228 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 2: that drives them. 229 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: Nuts, drives them crazy. It's really something. 230 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 2: So Harvey, no, let's wait on break. So Harvey was 231 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 2: doing great with this little tiny casino in the forties 232 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 2: through the fifties makes a lot of dough and by 233 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 2: sixty three had expanded and upgraded to Harvey's Lake Tahoe, 234 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 2: which at the time was the tallest building at eleven stories, 235 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 2: which is you know, that's a pretty tall building for 236 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 2: that area of the country. 237 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, less than twenty years. Who went from a cabin 238 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: to an eleven story casino resort? Yeah, and I believe 239 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: it was at that same eleven story casino resort that 240 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: this bomb was placed in nineteen eighty, seventeen years later. 241 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: And Harvey himself was like, I mean, he was a 242 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 1: casino owner in Nevada. Like he had I don't want 243 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 1: to say a checkered past, but he had a pass 244 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: like he'd been hauled in front of the irs for 245 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: tax evasion. There was. He had been given an honorary 246 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: name by the Nevada Inner Tribal Did I say it 247 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: right Nevada? 248 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 2: Nope? 249 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: By the Nevada Inner Tribal Council. He was called Chief 250 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: who Nai. And there was an article that was written 251 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: back in I think nineteen eighty that said that it 252 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: meant the man who runs the game and takes a 253 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: percentage of the bets. 254 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 2: I don't know if that's a joke or not. I 255 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 2: can't tell. 256 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: I don't either, because that's definitely like that era kind 257 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: of joke. You know, you can see that on like 258 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 1: a tiki napkin. 259 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 2: But the long and short of it is he was 260 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 2: He'd had his little run ends with the irs and 261 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,119 Speaker 2: stuff and the gaming board, but it wasn't anything unusual. 262 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 2: He wasn't like some bad guy like mafioso type. He was, 263 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 2: like you said, he owned a casino and there's you know, 264 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 2: he's gonna be brought up by the irs at some point. 265 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 2: But all of this to say, he wasn't like some 266 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 2: some big mark because of all his dirty dealings in 267 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 2: his past. 268 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: Basically I saw him actually referred to as a good 269 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: guy by some people. It sounds like it like he 270 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: was well known to have put off expansion, like he 271 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: didn't want to expand to other towns. He's basically said, 272 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: I'm making enough money. He had a quote that he 273 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: would refer to as I have a nice little business. 274 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: How many steaks can I eat? Which is to say 275 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: like he had everything he needed and this was fine. 276 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: He was happy with his business where it was. 277 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 2: That's right. But it was the seventies and into the 278 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 2: early eighties, which was just sort of the golden age 279 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 2: of all this kind of stuff of kidnappings and ransoms 280 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 2: and hijackings, and it just seems like all this kind 281 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: of high jinks. There's still stuff like that happens ocasionally, 282 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 2: but not like it did back then. 283 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: I think it's because, Chuck, the police state hadn't evolved 284 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: enough that they would catch you no matter what. Yeah, 285 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: AMers everywhere now right, and leaded gas had been around 286 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: long enough to really have the effects on a whole 287 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: new generation of brains. So you put those two things together, 288 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: you have everything converging on the seventies for people trying 289 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: all sorts of heists and kidnappings and stuff like that. 290 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that happened back then around there even I 291 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 2: think as far back as the early seventies there were 292 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: kidnapping conspiracies against gross ransom things that had been uncovered 293 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 2: in the late seventies. There were smoke bombs with ransom 294 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 2: notes found at other casinos around Tahoe. 295 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: So I don't know about that. 296 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 2: It was what the smoke bombs? 297 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, what is that? You might as well say, like 298 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: there's a box of sparklers in your lobby, give me 299 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: five hundred thousand simoleons, or else give. 300 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: Me thirty five cents, I know, to pay me back 301 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 2: for the smoke both. So it was a time where 302 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 2: if you owned a casino that brought in I think 303 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 2: he made about four million profit, but brought in like 304 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 2: seventy million dollars a year like his did, then that 305 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 2: simply just meant you were a mark by virtue of 306 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 2: that fact alone. 307 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: Right. The thing is, though, is the FBI found out 308 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: as they started investigating the case about a year after that, 309 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: it actually was a personal vendetta against Tarve himself or 310 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: Harvey's casino that led to that bomb being placed there 311 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: in August of nineteen eighty. 312 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 2: That sounds like a great cliffhanger for a break. 313 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks man. 314 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 2: All Right, we'll get back to it right after this, 315 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 2: all right, And so we're back in action here at 316 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 2: the bomb site. The FBI's bomb squad is working hard 317 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 2: trying to figure this thing out. They have another team 318 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: working on a fake ransom drop. Special Agent William Jonky 319 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 2: basically told Harvey, hey, listen, why don't we drag this 320 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 2: thing out as much as we can. We'll do a 321 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 2: fake payoff arrangement. Maybe we can just sort of put 322 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 2: off this bomb going off long enough for us to 323 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 2: figure it out either how to stop it or how 324 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 2: to catch these people, like, the bomb is going to 325 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 2: go off no matter what. And once Gross heard that, 326 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 2: he was like, well, I'm not paying anything. If this 327 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 2: thing's going off no matter what, you can use my 328 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 2: By God, you can use my own helicopter for the 329 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 2: drop even And that's what they did. They use his 330 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 2: own personal helicopter. But the pilot was a fed, and 331 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 2: there was another fed with a gun hiding behind the 332 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 2: pilot's seat with a suitcase full of mostly fake money. 333 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a few grand is what I saw. 334 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: And just like the ransom note said, the agent flew 335 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: the helicopter Lake Tahoe Airport, landed next to the payphone 336 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: and got there just in time from what I saw, 337 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: just for the phone to start ringing, although I suspect 338 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: they were being watched and the phone rang and rather 339 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: than giving them instructions over the phone, I think it's 340 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: hilarious that they said, look underneath the phone. There's instructions 341 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: taped beneath the phone, and then I guess hung up. 342 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 2: We didn't want to tape it to the front of 343 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:25,360 Speaker 2: the phone. 344 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: Booth, right, So he checks out the instructions and it says, okay, 345 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: this is what you're gonna do. You're going to fly 346 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: west along the highway for fifteen minutes from the airport, 347 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: and you're going to turn. There's some compassitting and they 348 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: told him to turn toward I never found which one. 349 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: And then after a certain amount of time he should 350 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 1: start looking for a beacon, which is going to be 351 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: a strobe light in a field. He should land there 352 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: and that's where the money drop would happen. And so 353 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: the pilot took off and he did exactly as the 354 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: thing instructed, the ransom note instructed, and there was nothing. 355 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: He flew around for forty five minutes, just waiting, hoping. 356 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: I guess probably came close to running out of gas. 357 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: And then he flew back to the Lake Tahoe airport 358 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: and went back to the payphone in case they called 359 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: to say, like, what the heck's going on? And they 360 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: never did call. Actually, so the money drop never happened. 361 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 2: I wonder. The FED takes off and he's got the 362 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 2: other FED behind him hiding with a gun, and he's like, hey, 363 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 2: how do you think this guy knows how far we're 364 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 2: going to be in fifteen minutes? And the other fed 365 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 2: went beats me, and that's exactly what happened. And it's 366 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 2: at this point in the story where we will introduce 367 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 2: you to the guy behind the whole thing, and we'll 368 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: learn more about him later. But his name was John 369 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 2: Waldo Burgess Sor and that was one of the key 370 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 2: mistakes he made. He kind of botched this money drop 371 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 2: because he should have said miles, like fly so many miles, 372 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 2: or fly to this destination. He just said fly for 373 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 2: fifteen minutes. And I don't know if he put at 374 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 2: like at an average rate of speed for your helicopter. Right, 375 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 2: But the long and short of it is they didn't 376 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 2: know after he had flown fifteen then it's exactly where 377 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 2: he was going to end up. And they were like, well, 378 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 2: that stinks. And this is after they had forgotten the 379 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 2: battery to the Strobe light. 380 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: Right, they left it in Fresno. 381 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 2: They eventually got one. Yeah, they left it at their place. 382 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 2: They eventually got one. They tried to break into an 383 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 2: autopartch store to get one and got chased off, and 384 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 2: then got one at a shell station. So they had 385 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 2: the Strobe. But by the time all this happens, they 386 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 2: don't even know where the helicopter is. 387 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: No, and that shell station also has its own hilarious 388 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: story because the gas station attendant they were trying to 389 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: buy the battery from basically was like, why no, you 390 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: need this kind of battery for the Volvo that you 391 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: have parked outside that you're driving. They're like, it doesn't 392 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: matter what kind of battery it's for. He's like, well, yeah, 393 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: it does, because Volvo won't take any battery. And they finally, 394 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: I guess, convinced him to just sell them a battery 395 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: and he's like, fine, I guess you're gonna find out 396 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 1: yourself that it's not gonna work, and they finally drove off. 397 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: That's how they got the battery. But they made it 398 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: to that drop point, which was twenty five miles away 399 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: from the airport, and they sat there and waited and 400 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: waited and waited and waited and waited. No helicopter. No 401 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 1: helicopter came. And the reason why is because they were separated, 402 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: separated by so many miles. They couldn't even hear the 403 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: helicopter where it was. It was so far away from 404 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: where they were at the drop site. 405 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 2: All right, so this is botched. Back at the bomb 406 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 2: site at the casino, this a full on party is 407 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 2: going on because it's a casino and people are just 408 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 2: out of their minds at those places. So the barricades 409 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 2: are set up, people are selling T shirts. I got 410 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 2: bombed at Lake Tahoe. I had a dynamite time at 411 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 2: Lake Tahoe. Like that's how quickly this thing was moving. 412 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 2: And the bomb squad team said, all right, here's what 413 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 2: I think we should do, like they call this and 414 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 2: they said, if we flip switch number five, then it'll 415 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 2: buy some more time because this thing isn't playing out 416 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 2: quite right. But I don't know if I trust that. 417 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 2: No one volunteered to flick that switch like they felt basically, 418 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 2: we should go on our own, like with our own 419 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,439 Speaker 2: gut feeling on how to do this, which is to 420 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 2: basically blow this box apart, but do it so quickly 421 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 2: that it severs the relay switch, like before the signal 422 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 2: can reach the dynamite. 423 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just pretty fast. And it was possible. They 424 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: had They had some of the greatest minds in the 425 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: United States who knew about bombs working on this problem, 426 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: and they designed to charge especially for this, and it 427 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: was built and brought to the site and put up 428 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: and they said, this still has at best a twenty 429 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: five to thirty percent chance. But we talked to the engineer, 430 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: one of the engineers at Harvey's, and he said, it 431 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: probably won't bring the whole building down, so let's give 432 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: it a shot. And so, almost thirty five hours after 433 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: the bomb had been discovered, around three pm the next day, 434 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: a guy named Daniel was the person who volunteered to 435 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: go take the charge, put it on the bomb exactly 436 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: at the angle he was told to put it at, 437 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: and then walked out and started the countdown for the 438 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: remote triggering. And remember there are hundreds, if not thousands 439 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: of people thronged together to watch this to see if 440 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: it worked. And when they finally did, apparently, they broadcast 441 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: the radio the countdown on local radio Chuck. And when 442 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: they finally set it off, that charge did not work 443 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: the way it was intended. 444 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 2: No, it set off the bomb. The entire thing went off, 445 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 2: and it was, like we said, it was a thousand 446 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 2: pounds of dynamite. It created a forty to fifty foot 447 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 2: hole in the ground in the middle of this casino, 448 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 2: shooting shrapnel everywhere, obviously, shooting cash and chips everywhere, which 449 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 2: is obviously problematic. They said, there were TV sets swinging 450 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 2: on cords, toilets hanging by the pipes. It was a huge, 451 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 2: massive explosion in the middle of a casino. And because 452 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 2: it's a casino and because it's Tahoe, it was not 453 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 2: very long afterward that the surrounding casinos got right back 454 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 2: to business, and it didn't take too long. A couple 455 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 2: of days before Harvey's got back to business. With what 456 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,239 Speaker 2: was left of the casino, they put glass around it 457 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: and was kind of like, hey, come see the bomb 458 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 2: hole and gamble some. 459 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: And watch the FBI work on this crime scene that 460 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: just took place. So one of the other great details 461 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: of this story for me is that the bandits didn't 462 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: know that the bomb had been detonated, and so a 463 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: few minutes after the bomb went off, they called the 464 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 1: local sheriff's office and said, we'll be calling back in 465 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: one hour to arrange another payment drop. 466 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 2: He said, whatever. 467 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. Can you imagine like the person who took the 468 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: call being like, oh, yeah, great, okay, we'll talk to 469 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: you in an hour. 470 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, So that didn't matter. Harvey Gross was very sad. 471 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 2: He just cried and he saw the damage eighteen million 472 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 2: dollars worth of damage, and you know, we'll tell you 473 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 2: what ultimately happened later. But they got back to business, 474 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 2: like I said, and I guess we should talk a 475 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 2: little bit more about who this mastermind was. 476 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: I agree, Chuck, and I say, before we start talking 477 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 1: about the mastermind behind the plot, we take a. 478 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 2: Break, all right, let's do it. 479 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: So we already revealed who it was. A guy named 480 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: John Burgess, and his son wrote a book later that 481 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,239 Speaker 1: I saw. He called the publisher to find out how 482 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: many copies had been sold at the time, and they 483 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: told him zero. But in this book he depicts his 484 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 1: dad as not a very nice guy. He was an 485 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: abusive husband, physically abusive, a really terrible dad. He liked 486 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: to emotionally blackmail his family by threatening to take his 487 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: life by suicide. And he was an actual Nazi, like 488 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: a genuine Nazi. Just to put the cherry on top 489 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: of everything. 490 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, he flew for the Luftwaffa and spent eight years 491 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 2: in a Soviet prison camp before coming to America and 492 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 2: becoming a multimillionaire, So it kind of ended up okay 493 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 2: for him. He had a landscaping business in Fresno that 494 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 2: apparently did really, really well but he also liked to 495 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 2: gamble a lot and lost a ton of money over 496 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 2: the years. I think about seven hundred and fifty thousand 497 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 2: dollars they'd estimated that he lost. I think at Harvey's alone, right. 498 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 1: I think that was the whole shebang, But most of 499 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: that was at Harvey's. That was my take on. 500 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 2: It, okay, And we do need to put a pin 501 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 2: in something else, is that years before he had a business, 502 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 2: a restaurant that it was pretty clear that he burned 503 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 2: down for the insurance money, got up three hundred and 504 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 2: fifty five thousand dollars from that and gambled that away. 505 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was that kind of guy, right. So the 506 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: heist itself, it was it was an attempt to make 507 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: back some of the money that the house had taken 508 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: from him over the years that he felt bitter about. 509 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: But also the reason that he targeted Harvey's, they later 510 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: found out, was that on some New Year's Eve a 511 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: year or two before he had been given the high 512 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: Rollers suite. That's how often he gambled at Harvey's, Like 513 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: he was well known there, but he had amassed such 514 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: a debt that they actually took him that evening out 515 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: of the high roller suite and put him in a 516 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: regular room. Was in much to his great humiliation. Yeah, 517 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: I mean that was pretty much why he, at very 518 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: at least why he targeted Harvey's. He considered that quite 519 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: a loss of pride because I I guess he was 520 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: with a date and the date was like I thought 521 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: you said you were a big time right, which didn't 522 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: make it any better. So that's why Harvey's got targeted 523 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: in particular. 524 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 2: That's right. And they put Aaron Hagar in that suite instead. 525 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: They did, and everything was right with the world. 526 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 2: That's right. So actually Aaron's he's about mate. So he 527 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 2: would have been a kid back then, or maybe they did. 528 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: He could have been high rolling. 529 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 2: Maybe he was like a nine or ten year old, 530 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 2: like running the show in that gambling room. 531 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: I could totally see it. 532 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 2: So we mentioned he was Burgess Senior. There was a 533 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 2: Burgess Junior. He had a couple of sons, John Junior 534 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 2: and Jimmy, who were twenty and eighteen respectively, and then 535 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 2: Jimmy or wait, was Ella Williams the senior's girlfriend. Yes, okay, 536 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 2: so he had a girlfriend named Ela Williams who were 537 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 2: also in on it. And these two numbskulls who delivered 538 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 2: the bomb, named Bill Brown and Terry Hall. 539 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,959 Speaker 1: The FBI later said after they caught Bill Brown they 540 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: described him or no, it was from a report like 541 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: somebody who witnessed the bomb being delivered. They said one 542 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: of them was a hay seed, a real goober type. 543 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: That's how they described Bill Brown. And it's sad for 544 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: Bill Brown and Terry hallchuck, because they got a total 545 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: of twenty one hundred bucks. But it wasn't until after 546 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: they were driven away early that morning that they were 547 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: told what they'd just done. They did not know that 548 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: they were delivering a bomb until after they delivered the bomb. 549 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: Isn't that terrible? 550 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,959 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean they they were probably just sold here 551 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 2: some money, go deliver this thing. 552 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: That was a lot of money, that's exactly right. Yeah, 553 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: and John Burgess Junior just totally misled him, which is 554 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: another mark against that guy. 555 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 2: All Right, So spinning back a little bit, when they 556 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,479 Speaker 2: hatched this plan, the first thing they did was go 557 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 2: out and get all this dynamite which they stole from 558 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 2: a power plant in California and stash it in their 559 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 2: walk in freezer in their garage and started building this bomb, 560 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 2: and no one. That's kind of one of the mysteries 561 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 2: of this. It was such a sophisticated device, and no 562 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 2: one still really knows how this guy managed to build 563 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 2: this thing, if he had help, if he was just 564 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 2: this bomb genius that no one knew about, or was 565 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 2: just super smart and did his research, but no one 566 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 2: really knows how he managed to build such a sophisticated bomb. 567 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: I mean, it's still not clear. I don't think anybody 568 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,959 Speaker 1: will ever know he just did it. And what's crazy 569 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: is John Burgess might have gotten away with the whole thing. 570 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: The FBI did not. They were not on him initially. 571 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: They interviewed something like five hundred suspects in the whole case. 572 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: And there were two things that seemed to have brought 573 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: Burgess down. One was a hotel owner who was the 574 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: night manager of the hotel that Burgess, Brown, and Hall 575 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: stayed at before they planted the bomb. Her name was 576 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: Nancy Domenico, and she found those three suspicious enough that 577 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: she wrote down their license plate on their van, model 578 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: color and the license plate number and just kept it 579 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: on file just in case. And it turned out that 580 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: would become really important later on. And then the other 581 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: factor was John Burgess Junior had a really loud mouth. 582 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 2: It turns out, yeah, he had a girlfriend leading up 583 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 2: to the event, and he would just brag all about 584 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 2: this thing. They break up. You never think about the 585 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 2: breakup side of things when you're spilling your innermost thoughts. Yeah, 586 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 2: and she has a new boyfriend, tells him all about 587 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 2: this guy I dated before you that told me all 588 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 2: about this bomb plot. The new boyfriend calls in the 589 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 2: FBI tip. So now they have a couple of tips 590 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 2: pointing to these dudes. Yeah, they tracked down the van 591 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 2: that the Nancy Domenico had reported as shady, and it 592 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 2: was a van that was registered to the restaurant that 593 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,239 Speaker 2: Burgess Senior allegedly had burned down. So that's where that 594 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 2: comes back into play. 595 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, so they're like, okay, let's go interview John Burgess Senior, 596 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: and on Burgess Senior says, oh, John Junior was driving 597 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: the van. 598 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 2: Completely gave his immediately. 599 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean like that first interview said him, probably 600 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: said here's his address. Hopefully at least called his son 601 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: to give him a heads up. I don't know. But 602 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: they went over and they interviewed John Junior and he said, yes, 603 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: I was around uh Tahoe at the time. Yes, I 604 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: was with my van, but I was looking for places 605 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: to plant marijuana. And you know that's true because I've 606 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: just admitted to a crime to the FBI, right right. 607 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: And apparently the FBI didn't didn't really buy it. They said, like, 608 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: this story is awful, but he stuck to it and 609 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: they didn't have anything else they could get him on 610 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: right then, but he was definitely on their radar from 611 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: that point forward. 612 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 2: I thought it was a pretty good story to be 613 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 2: put on the spot. Personally, Well, well, it didn't work, 614 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 2: but like to admit to another crime, I was like, right, 615 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 2: all right, not bad, I'll give you that part. 616 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: The part of the FBI. The FBI was like, you're 617 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: you're kidding, right, He's said the battery died, so I 618 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: abandoned the van. Somebody must have taken it and used 619 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: it in the crime and then brought it back while 620 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: I was away from the van. 621 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 2: Right well, which is a long way of saying, was 622 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 2: it wasn't me, right exactly. So they you know, they 623 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 2: do what they do in the movies. They don't have 624 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 2: enough hard evidence, so they spend a year getting that 625 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 2: evidence building a case. 626 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: I'm a montage with a great like upbeat song where 627 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: they're putting this stuff together. Right. 628 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 2: Sure, I don't know why John Junior and John Senior 629 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 2: are still in the country. I would have been out 630 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 2: of there so fast. 631 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: Where would you go? 632 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 2: I'd leave the country? 633 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,239 Speaker 1: I know where where'd you go? 634 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 2: Oh, that's a really good question. Everyone just always talks about, 635 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 2: like who would you have over for dinner? Living or dead? 636 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 2: Like where would you go if you were guilty of 637 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 2: a bombing blot? 638 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it's got to be a non extradition treaty country, right, 639 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: So you're looking at like Venezuela. 640 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 2: I'd have to do my research then, but yeah, I 641 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 2: would go someplace with a beach and like a very 642 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 2: quiet life. Okay, yeah, and then they just you know, 643 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 2: they eventually show up at the beach in the movie 644 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,280 Speaker 2: as well. So yeah, but I tie out of your hands, 645 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 2: and your Canada has beaches, sure, lovely beaches. Not quite 646 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 2: the beaches I was looking for, though, You're welcome, Chunk. 647 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 2: So the FBI is getting this evidence. They have rewards. 648 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 2: I think like a half a million bucks is about 649 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 2: as high as the reward went. And finally about a 650 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 2: year later, they arrest John Junior and Jimmy and they say, 651 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 2: they dangle a little carrot in front of their faces, 652 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 2: how would you like to how'd you like to turn 653 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 2: on dad and maybe get a little leniency And they 654 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 2: went that jerk, I'm happy to And that's exactly what 655 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:55,760 Speaker 2: they did. 656 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: Right, And they turn on their dad. They arrested their dad. 657 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: They arrested Ella william Bill Brown, Terry Hall, and from 658 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: what we understand, every single person who had anything to 659 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: do with that was rounded up in one fell swoop basically, 660 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: and the conviction started coming out. Ella Williams got seven 661 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 1: years for her involvement. And she hasn't factored in hugely 662 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: into this podcast, but she was definitely an accomplished She 663 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: typed the ransom notes up, she did a lot. I 664 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: think she dropped some people off at one of the 665 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: landing sites, like she was very much involved. So she 666 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: got seven years, but a judge later overturned her conviction, 667 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: and I couldn't see why. But as far as I know, 668 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: she did not do any time in prison. Maybe beyond 669 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:37,800 Speaker 1: her trial. 670 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the sons did get that leniency. As 671 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 2: for John Senior, he represented himself in court. Cross examined 672 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 2: his own sons. Eventually got twenty years in federal prison, 673 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,720 Speaker 2: and then I believe life without parole in state prison. 674 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. The big key to his defense was his son's 675 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: had given him a father's day car that said you're 676 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 1: the best dad around ten years before. It didn't work 677 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:06,879 Speaker 1: on the jury. 678 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 2: That's sorry, how could I have done this? He served 679 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 2: sixteen years, died in prison of cancer. But then there's 680 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 2: one final little potential twist here. 681 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, so John Burgess had talked to a reporter 682 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: while he was alive and he said, you know what, 683 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: this wasn't my idea. I was a patsy, I was 684 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: a rube. I got and I got dragged into this 685 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: by a loan shark. I owed sixty large too. That's 686 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: what you say when you're a gambler. And he recruited 687 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: me to plant this bomb. And that really the loan 688 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: shark was working on behalf of Harvey's top executives and 689 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 1: the mafia who were conspiring to blow the place up 690 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: so that they could collect the insurance money. 691 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 2: Look you there, you believe it not at all? 692 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:51,479 Speaker 1: No? 693 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 2: Same, no, and the like the. 694 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 1: The thing that just like completely proves it is yeah, 695 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: they used insurance money to rebuild. It's like, No, that 696 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: doesn't prove anything. Of course you're going to use insurance 697 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: money to rebuild. It doesn't mean there was a conspiracy there. 698 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 2: Right, Is that place still there any idea? 699 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still there. I think it's been updated even 700 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: more since then. But yeah, as far as I know, 701 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: Harvey's is still there. 702 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 2: Awesome. I don't know why over the past two weeks 703 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 2: I've ever thought to look that. 704 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: Up me either. I'm almost positive we'll have to leave 705 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: it to Aaron Hagar to tell us whether it's there 706 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: or not. 707 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 2: Sweet it is. I'm looking at a picture of it. 708 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 2: It's definitely been updated. 709 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: Well, while you're online, why don't you look at eBay 710 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: and see if there's any like I got bombed at 711 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 1: Harvey's T shirts still around? 712 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 2: Oh wow, Well, if there are, I'm not going to 713 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 2: tell you. I'm just going to get you one for Christmas. 714 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: Fair enough. I like that a lot. That's a good plan. Well, 715 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,760 Speaker 1: since Chuck said but he's gonna get me for Christmas, 716 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 1: and I realized, Man, I've got to figure out what 717 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: to get Chuck for Christmas. It's time for listener mail. 718 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,240 Speaker 2: You just got me a great record, which one. 719 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: Oh, the Bill Evans one. Yeah, yeah, you like it? 720 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: Have you listened to it yet? 721 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 2: I love it? I mean a it's Bill Evans, but 722 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,280 Speaker 2: it's just uh yeah, it's good, very evocative of changing 723 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 2: the seasons, which I think was the whole. 724 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: Point for sure. I'm glad you liked it. 725 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 2: All right, Hey, guys, After listening to the Introvert Extrovert episode, 726 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 2: I thought i'd reach out because Chuck at one point 727 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 2: talked about finding ways to discipline his child by removing 728 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 2: fun activities. I remember saying that, but I guess. 729 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: Oh, you were so mad, You're like frothing at the mouth. 730 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: I've never heard you more angry. 731 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,399 Speaker 2: You don't even really do that, so I'm not sure 732 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 2: if I may have been kidding or not. Anyway, I'm 733 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 2: a third grade teacher because this is like a tip here, 734 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 2: so we got to read the tips. I'm a third 735 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,800 Speaker 2: grade teacher on a reservation, and with sixteen kids in 736 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 2: my class, I have never had to use discipline. My 737 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 2: classroom functions like a well oiled machine. Due to a 738 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,439 Speaker 2: type of behavior management, known in the educational world as 739 00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 2: pbis positive behaviors and supports manage challenging child behavior solely, 740 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 2: solely through the use of using praise and rewards. Wow, 741 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,359 Speaker 2: I can easily be applied in the context of raising 742 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 2: your own. 743 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 1: Child, especially if you want to raise a psychopath. 744 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 2: This is a huge topic, and when there's near and 745 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 2: dear to my heart, I thought it might be incredibly 746 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 2: useful for all the parents out there who, like Chuck, 747 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 2: struggle to find a way to manage their child's behavior. 748 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,919 Speaker 2: You convention your discipline. 749 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: Man, this guy's scoring all over you, Chuck. 750 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 2: A little bit. This is Anthony. You guys rock. Thanks 751 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:36,399 Speaker 2: for all the wonderful knowledge and Hilary's dialogue. I want 752 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,799 Speaker 2: to be super clear, Anthony, we don't struggle to find 753 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,439 Speaker 2: a way to manage her behavior. She's a good kid. 754 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 2: And not to say that kids who have trouble behaving 755 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 2: are bad kids at all. Everyone has their challenges as 756 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 2: kids and parents. But it's not too bad. And I 757 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 2: don't know that this pbis would work necessarily in my household. 758 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 2: I mean, we already do that kind of thing, but 759 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 2: I'll ramp it up and see if that helps. 760 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,760 Speaker 1: Hey, good run an experiment, Chuck and true sysk fashion. 761 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 2: Sure. I'm curious though, because Anthony didn't say if Anthony 762 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,720 Speaker 2: had kids, I will say that the way kids behave 763 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,879 Speaker 2: for teachers is not at all related to how they 764 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 2: behave for parents. 765 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:21,399 Speaker 1: A lot of it I can imagine for sure. 766 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm curious. 767 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you guys listening out there, try this, let 768 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,760 Speaker 1: us know if it works or what. And also, Anthony, 769 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,880 Speaker 1: thank you very much for writing in Anthony. It was great. 770 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:34,839 Speaker 1: So if you want to be like Anthony, you can 771 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: write into to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 772 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 773 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 2: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 774 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,360 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.