1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: On this episode of newts World. In the beginning, the 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: FBI and CIA fought America's enemies at home and abroad. 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: Now there are tools of a growing police state attacking 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: the left's political enemies and spying on ordinary American citizens? 5 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: How did we get here? In his new book, Big Intel, 6 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: How the CIA and FBI went from Cold War heroes 7 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: to deep state villains. Former CIA operative J. Michael Waller 8 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: shows how normal intelligence functions have given way to political 9 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: correctness and never ending pride propaganda trapping agents in the diversity, 10 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: equity and inclusion House of Merits. I'm really pleased to 11 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: welcome my guest, J. Michael Waller, Senior Analyst for Strategy 12 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: at the Center for Security Policy. His areas of expertise 13 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: include foreign propaganda, political warfare, psychological warfare, and subversion. He 14 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: holds a PhD International Security Affairs from the Boston University. Michael, 15 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: welcome and thank you for joining me on Newtrum. 16 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: It's great to be with you. 17 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: You mentioned that I have been what forty three years 18 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: since you guys were hanging out in my office. 19 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 3: At the top of the Cannon House office building. 20 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: It's amazing how much time flies when you're having fun. 21 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 2: Isn't it? It really is walk me for. 22 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: A seconds your own life. What happened from College Republicans 23 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: to today? 24 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 3: Well, I ended up getting involved with friends of yours 25 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 3: with Herber Rohmerstein and Faith Whittlesey and Morton Blackwell and 26 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 3: others at the White House through College Republicans, and was 27 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 3: the White House youth person for promoting Reagan's policy to 28 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 3: roll back the Soviet Union. And they got me down 29 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 3: with the conference in Central America, and I did some 30 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,559 Speaker 3: work for Bill Casey and then went on to become 31 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 3: a professor and teaching a lot of what I learned. 32 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: That's great. Let's start with the nominations of Cash Patel 33 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: as FBI Director and Tlsey Gabbert as Director of National Intelliviance. 34 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: First of all, why do you think President Trump was 35 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: trying to achieve when he nominated them. 36 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 3: President Trump wanted some really tough people who simply don't 37 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 3: care about being popular in Washington and playing the revolving 38 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 3: door game to land some big contractor law firm partnership 39 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 3: after heading their agencies. And so he picked a very 40 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: tenacious person like Cash Patel with experience in the area 41 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 3: to run the bureau, and that shocked a whole lot 42 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 3: of people. But really, there's no better person for the job. 43 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 3: He picked someone like Tulsea Gabbert with a Democrat background, 44 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 3: who got burned badly by the security apparatus. She was 45 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 3: labeled a suspected terrorist. She and her husband were labeled 46 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 3: threats to aviation even while she was a member of Congress, 47 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 3: and she came around in a lot of her points 48 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 3: of view as a result of that. So she, being 49 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 3: personally stung, really has a good motivation to do the 50 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 3: right thing. 51 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: I've known Tulsa Gabbert a long time. I really like her. 52 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: I think she's very smart. Why would the intelligence community 53 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: have done that? 54 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 3: She was a rogue Democrat, She was a critic of 55 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 3: the system, so she was a threat. I don't see 56 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 3: any other reason beyond that. People point to certain points 57 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 3: of view she has, but they're simply points of view. 58 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 3: But she was viewed as a public enemy. 59 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: In a sense, they've created their own monster. Yeah, this 60 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: is one of those classic cases where if you strike, 61 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: you had better win, because otherwise the person who attack 62 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: gets bigger and stronger. 63 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 64 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: You on An article recently was fascinating entitled why some 65 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: senators are so afraid of confirming Cash Pattel and Tulsa Gabbert, 66 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: who's in the blaze on February thirty. Why do you 67 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: think they're that afraid. 68 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 3: They're afraid because Congress for forty nine years has never 69 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 3: held real oversight investigations or even hearings of the FBI 70 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 3: or the CIA. There have been cursory ones, but no 71 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 3: real hard skeptical oversight in any systemic way. I mean, 72 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 3: you have even somebody like Chuck Schumer, who was elected 73 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty, so he's been on the House and 74 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 3: Senate Judiciary committees for a total of forty five years. 75 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 3: He never once tried to hold the FBI into account 76 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 3: on anything. So you have these rogue apparatuses, which were 77 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 3: more rogue than they were in the nineteen seventies, and 78 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 3: Congress hasn't looked. And it's natural human nature. If nobody's 79 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 3: watching what you're doing, you're going to do what you 80 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 3: feel like doing, whether it's the right thing or the 81 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 3: wrong thing. So these institutions have gotten out of control 82 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 3: and become politicized to the point where they will go 83 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 3: after anyone who opposes them. 84 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: Because it's very obvious that President Trump is shaking things 85 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: up in Washington. The latest the example is the way 86 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: which they've closed the doors of the US Agency for 87 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: International Development, literally in fact, locking employees out. Now, you've 88 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: had first hand experience with AID, and you worked as 89 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: a subcontractor for them in the nineteen nineties, can you 90 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: walk us through your experience with AID? 91 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 3: Early on, I did some work in Latin America and 92 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 3: some work in Russia. And in Latin America, they were 93 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 3: just doing their job for development, for helping train civil 94 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 3: society type things that were pretty legitimate, and they were 95 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 3: consistent with US foreign policy. It was always an instrument 96 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 3: of US foreign policy. But then after the Cold War, 97 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 3: under the Clinton administration, these agencies were wondering what to do, 98 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 3: and policymakers were wondering what are their purpose? And the 99 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 3: Clint administration flat out set at the time, you want 100 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 3: to join the Foreign Affairs Committee in the House or 101 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 3: Foreign Relations in the Senate to bring money back to 102 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 3: your districts using foreign policy to bring money back home. 103 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 3: That means contracting money. That means money for your friends 104 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 3: and cronies. That means money for the causes that the 105 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 3: political causes that you want to produce, meaning using our 106 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 3: foreign policy apparatus as a domestic liberal left political machine. 107 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 3: And that's what happened to the USAID. But I would 108 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 3: argue AID went even further, and it became a state 109 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 3: within a state, running its own foreign intelligence operations, as 110 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 3: operations to overthrow governments, regardless of what the president's policy was, 111 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 3: and then to recruit and to assess and to finance 112 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,119 Speaker 3: and therefore control political operatives of other countries all around 113 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 3: the world. Not as an instrument to foreign policy, but 114 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 3: as an instrument to itself and to this big current 115 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 3: political machine that it became. 116 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: At the time when we took USAID out of state, 117 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: it's because we distrusted state. But then USAID evolved on 118 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: its own into a system that I think is in 119 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: many ways anti American and certainly anti Israeli. I was 120 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: surprised in the last couple of days as they began 121 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: to release this information with how much of the money 122 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: was going into the US through these nonprofits to finance 123 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: left wing operations, I mean political apparently is being funded 124 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: by usidea. Apparently Bill Crystal was getting money. 125 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: New York Times got millions, twenty. 126 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: Five percent of usida's funding eight billion dollars was allocated 127 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: to public international organizations rather than being spent directly by 128 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: the United States. And it's pretty clear that in some 129 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: places they were funding terrorist groups, they were funding people 130 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: who are actively anti American. As recently as October of 131 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: twenty four, Senator Tom Cotton was raising questions because we've 132 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: spent over a billion dollars in humanitarian aid DEGAZA, and 133 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: all it did was may comas stronger. 134 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: Right. 135 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, USAD has been funding this civilian support infrastructures for 136 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 3: insurgencies and for terrorist groups. Long ago, it was funding 137 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 3: civilian support infrastructure for our friends and allies, but it's 138 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 3: been doing it for Hamas. It's been doing it for 139 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 3: a lot of extremist groups around the world, and it's 140 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 3: also been used to wage cultural Marxist revolution in countries 141 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 3: with traditional values. Look at what they've done in Guatemala, 142 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 3: funding Marxist attorneys to become judges and then putting pressure 143 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 3: on the Guatemalan government to force it to appoint them 144 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 3: as justices to the high courts because Guatemalans won't elect 145 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 3: to Marxist president. It's a conservative country. Look at what 146 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 3: they're doing in Nigeria promoting this LGBTQ whatever else nonsense 147 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 3: that goes against the values of practically every last Nigerian, 148 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 3: but it's being shoved down their throats, and it's creating 149 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 3: anti Americanism among the populations at large, and then trying 150 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 3: to build hostile systems that want to tear down Western values. 151 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: Do you think in that sense on balance, that usid 152 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: IS programming has not advanced America's interests. 153 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 3: It hasn't since the collapse of the Cold War. I'll 154 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 3: give you a good example. I saw it in the 155 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 3: nineteen nineties when I was working in Russia on the 156 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 3: USAID Rule of Law Project, working with the Russian Park 157 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 3: Parliament to build Frank Church style oversight committees of the 158 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 3: former KGB to make sure it could never rise again 159 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 3: and to expose and break apart the gangster state. It 160 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 3: was a KGB gangster state that was developing in the 161 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 3: nineties before this Lieutenant colonel named Ladimir Putin ever went 162 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 3: to Moscow, and so really USAID had a big role 163 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 3: in helping, inadvertently or otherwise, to build what became the 164 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 3: Russian gangster state, because it eviscerated the power of the 165 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 3: Russian Parliament to have oversight and have those oversight skills 166 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 3: and knowledge that they needed. 167 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: In your book, begin tell how the CIA and FBI 168 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: went from Cold War heroes to deep state funds. You 169 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: paint a pretty stark picture of the CIA and fbis 170 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: of all, from the Cold War heroes to what you 171 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: call deep state villains. What were the key moments in 172 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: history that marked this transformation. 173 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 3: Well, if you discount the human frailties that any human 174 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 3: institution is going to have, and you look at the 175 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 3: big picture of the purpose, the CIA and the FBI 176 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 3: served their purposes by going after our foreign enemies abroad, 177 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 3: FBI against domestic spies and subversives at home, and law 178 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 3: enforcement here at home. But they were never in a 179 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 3: position to abuse the American population at large, let alone, 180 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 3: as Chuck Schumer warned several years ago, to have six 181 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 3: ways from Sunday to go after you as a senior 182 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 3: elected official of the US government. 183 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: It wasn't that way. 184 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 3: Even Jay Edgar Hoover didn't have the powers that today's 185 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 3: FBI has, And as bad as he was in those 186 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 3: certain areas, he did a lot of good. Also, he 187 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 3: was never in a position to abuse power the way 188 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 3: the FBI since James Comey has done and Chris Ray. 189 00:10:55,800 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 3: So the real shift came in the Obama administration, in 190 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 3: the Bush forty three administration, when there was this mass 191 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 3: hiring of people who were poorly screened and often poorly 192 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 3: qualified for their jobs at CIA, and they brought a 193 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 3: lot of those West Coast Silicon Valley San Francisco values 194 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 3: with them. But the real shifts came when Barack Obama 195 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 3: mandated it with James Clapper as Director of National Intelligence, 196 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 3: lifetime radical, just a lunatic radical when he was an 197 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 3: Air Force general and head of the Defense Intelligence Agency 198 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 3: and a counter intelligence problem by the way, and then 199 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 3: John Brennan as Obama's next CIA director, who was an 200 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 3: unrepentant voter for the Communist Party candidate Gus Hall back 201 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 3: three years before he was recruited into the CIA. 202 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 2: And he laughs at it. 203 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 3: He never uses as a teaching moment, say you can 204 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 3: do stupid things as a kid, but this is how 205 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 3: the enemy, our foreign enemies like the Soviets, are running 206 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 3: operatives in the United States to recruit us and to 207 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 3: subvert our system. He never once used that as a lesson. 208 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 3: These people ran the intelligence community and then you had 209 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 3: Valerie Jarrett and others in the White House writing the 210 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 3: Bama executive orders to impose critical theory cultural Marxism their 211 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 3: manifestation under DEI throughout the whole intelligence community, and this 212 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 3: corrupted the system. 213 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: Do you portray, particularly in the intelligence side, a really 214 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: remarkable imposition, if he will, of leaders who are sort 215 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: of knowingly not pro American. 216 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, they think America is a bad country. 217 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: I remember one point Bremen arguing that there were really 218 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: moderates in Hesbelah. I think he had converted Islam. It 219 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: was thinking to myself, why would you have an intelligence 220 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: chief who has this fantasy, because there aren't any moderates 221 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: in Hesbelah. Hes Bela is dedicated to the destruction of 222 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: Israel and pretty cheerful about killing Americans, and yet you 223 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: had this guy preaching somehow We're going to reach out 224 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: and find the moderates. Was that because Obama was being duped, 225 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: because in fact, that's the world Obama wanted to create. 226 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 3: As the world Obama wanted to create if you look 227 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 3: at his whole political formation, since he was a boy 228 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 3: living in Hawaii who his grandfather had guide him in 229 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 3: his teens, long time Communist Party agut operative Frank Marshall Davis, 230 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 3: and then he goes to college and then he meets 231 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 3: up in Chicago. If you look at the Democratic machine 232 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 3: in Chicago and the faction that he attached himself to, 233 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 3: it was the old Communist Party faction of the Chicago 234 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 3: Democratic Party. That's what raised him. That's where he met 235 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 3: Valerie Jarrett, whose parents were party That's where he met 236 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 3: Michelle through Valerie Jarrett. And then the state senator who 237 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 3: stepped down to run for Congress and anointed him to 238 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 3: replace her was also part of that party, Apparatta. So 239 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 3: this is Obama's America. When he said he wanted to 240 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 3: fundamentally transform America, this is what he was dreaming about. 241 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 1: I understand that with the intelligence community. Well what about 242 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: the FBI, which had historically been very conservative and we 243 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: were characteristic with where in a suit and following the rules, etc. 244 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: How did that decay? 245 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 3: Well, the FBI was the last to fall, and that 246 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 3: also took place at the end of the Robert Muller 247 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 3: twelve year reign over the FBI, when he completely reorganized 248 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 3: the FBI from a bottom up organization, which is the 249 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 3: way JEdgar Hoover designed it to be bottom up. He 250 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 3: was a very powerful director, but you'd open your cases 251 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 3: from the field offices and each of the fifty six 252 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 3: field office directors from around the country could call him 253 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 3: when they needed to. Now, the head of a field office, 254 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 3: the special Agent in charge, needs to go through fifteen 255 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 3: different steps in order to communicate directly with the number 256 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 3: one person at the FBI. So it cut that off, 257 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 3: and it created a huge bureaucratized, centralized from the top 258 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 3: apparatus where careerism meant everything. So rather than agents who 259 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 3: would spend a lot of time, maybe years of their 260 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 3: life on certain cases, if you're not promoted in eighteen months. 261 00:14:58,640 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 2: You're out. 262 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 3: This attracted a lot of very avaricious and politicized people 263 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 3: to join. So if you look at the national security 264 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 3: part of the FBI and the public corruption part of 265 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 3: the FBI, they're the most politicized of all. So what 266 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 3: really tipped the scale was when Obama loved Muller's job 267 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 3: so much that he asked Congress to allow him to 268 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 3: stay beyond his ten year term and kept him on 269 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 3: for two years to impose what then James Comey put 270 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 3: in as all the dei politicization of a bureau. Imagine 271 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 3: that on top of a bureau that had gone from 272 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 3: an investigative and law enforcement agency till after nine to eleven, 273 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 3: it was converted into a law enforcement agency and a 274 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 3: domestic intelligence service, which we've never had before. 275 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: Shouldn't that have been separated. I always argue that when 276 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: you're fighting crime, you're innocent until proven guilty. When you're 277 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: fighting terrorism, you're sort of guilty until proven innocent. If 278 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: you mix the two into the same institution, you're going 279 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: to corrupt it. 280 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 3: Right, And then you're using in intelligence for law enforcement. 281 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 3: There are different standards. There's evidence for law enforcement, and 282 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 3: you're required to prove that it was obtained legally and 283 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 3: with warrants and so forth, and then to be submitted 284 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 3: before a court and a trial. With intelligence, none of 285 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 3: that is needed. You get the information however you can, 286 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 3: from wherever you can, and then you're using that to 287 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 3: drive law enforcement investigations. No, but no place west of 288 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 3: East Germany does that. 289 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: I didn't realize until looking at your book that for 290 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: five years, starting twenty eleven, the Obama administration's Office of 291 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: the Director of National Intelligence held pride summits but they 292 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: were sort of secret. I mean, what was going on. 293 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 3: This is the indoctrination of our intelligence community. These were 294 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 3: command performances where officials had to attend these Pride summits. 295 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 3: And even in the FBI, if you were not actively 296 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 3: what they call an ally, then you were marked. So 297 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 3: if you're just simply a professional saying, look, I don't 298 00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 3: like what's going on around me, but that's what the 299 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 3: President and the Attorney General want, I'm just going to 300 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 3: just keep my head down and be quiet and do 301 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 3: my job, that's a mark against you. So the FBI said, literally, 302 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 3: you must embrace LGBTQ, whatever pride. You must be a 303 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 3: quote ally of the Pride movement. So they're turning a 304 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 3: national police into a political police. 305 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: I mean there's a serious effort there to coerce the 306 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: American people in to change, whether they want it. 307 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 2: Or not, exactly exactly. 308 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 3: And when it's done in secret, with no deliberation, with 309 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 3: no congressional authorization, with no oversight, and really no recourse, 310 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 3: then you are indeed developing a political police system across 311 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 3: the country. 312 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: National security community had his last fundamental redesign in the 313 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: late nineteen forties, and it's based on the National Security 314 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: Act of nineteen forty seven in the early Cold War. 315 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: Do you think we need a fundamental redesign of the 316 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: system and if so, how would you do it. 317 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we need another George Kennon to assess what 318 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 3: our foreign adversaries are all about and how. 319 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 2: To deal with them. 320 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 3: You need the bipartisanship that you had with Harry Truman 321 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 3: and Harry Truman in the Eisenhower period. They had plenty 322 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 3: of fights, but they had a general consensus on who 323 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 3: our adversaries were abroad, how they were infiltrating us domestically, 324 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 3: and how we needed to have a posture around the 325 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 3: world to fight that. But the world has changed so 326 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 3: much that we're still on that late nineteen forties structure 327 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 3: and even mentality. So even our defense priorities are designed 328 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 3: for that period. Commerce keeps throwing more money at defense. 329 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 3: That's such a huge waste because our whole grand strategy 330 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 3: is obsolete, and therefore our defense structure and spending is obsolete. 331 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: I've written that we really have to have a profound rethinking, 332 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: and it's going to be very difficult. I mean, Hegseeth, 333 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: for example, has an enormous job trying to get the 334 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: Pentagon under control, and then trying to get it modernized 335 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: because it's a very bureaucratic, largely obsolete system. Now, now 336 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: you suggested that the CIA currently should be dissolved into 337 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,239 Speaker 1: two different entities, one for intelligence gathering and analysis and 338 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: one for covert operations. Would you like break up the 339 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: CIA and create these two freestanding, separate systems. 340 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 3: Yes, I would divide them in two parts, so it's 341 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 3: not abolish the CIA and have no intelligence service. We 342 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 3: need intelligence services, but break it into two functional parts, 343 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,479 Speaker 3: so you have the ones that go out and they 344 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 3: collect intelligence, and then others when then that analyze that intelligence, 345 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 3: and they write their estimates and assessments and so forth, 346 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 3: and provide that inform with their assessments to the president 347 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 3: so that he can know what's going on in the 348 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 3: world and can decide how to make policy. That's what 349 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 3: the CIA was for. Then you'd have a separate, very 350 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 3: small covert action service to run covert operations abroad as 351 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 3: necessary under presidential control and never never on its own. 352 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 3: And then I'd shrink both of them, because if you 353 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 3: look at the CIA, it's a huge bureaucracy with an 354 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 3: even larger unknown number of contractors, and a lot of 355 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 3: it's waste. You don't need secret intelligence to spy on 356 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 3: the climate or gender or these other things. We also 357 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 3: need things that we don't have, like an ability for 358 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 3: our people, our agents abroad, to live in those societies 359 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 3: and integrate in those societies for the long term, like 360 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 3: the old British services did. People know their Americans and 361 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,239 Speaker 3: so forth, and people might even know their CIA. But 362 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 3: they can just be there, be our eyes and ears 363 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 3: on the ground, and we won't have to rely on 364 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 3: the secret services of the local countries to tell us 365 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 3: what's going on, which is why happen. And then a 366 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 3: lot of the analysis is just unnecessary because there's so 367 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 3: much public information, and a lot of the human work 368 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 3: is unnecessary because so much is automated and digitized. You 369 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 3: don't need so many people. And then a lot of 370 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,719 Speaker 3: the positions are just obsolete or even worthless. And so 371 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 3: you take the best elements of that and you hire 372 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 3: other people to come in. We can have a first 373 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 3: rate intelligence service again with first rate information. But you 374 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 3: see president after president since Reagan saying the president's daily 375 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 3: brief is pretty much useless. It's not informative. It's not 376 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 3: guiding on anything. And so if Democrats and Republican presidents 377 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 3: agree on that over decades, then something's fundamentally wrong. 378 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 2: It has to be fixed. 379 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: Do you happen to know? How do the Israelis divide 380 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: up intelligence? 381 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 3: The Israelis have two main services. They've got the Mosad, 382 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 3: which is their international foreign intelligence service, and then they 383 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 3: have Shinbet, which is their domestic security service, and they 384 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 3: have others. But if you look at what happened to 385 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 3: the Israelis, they're as woke as our. 386 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 2: Intelligence services are. 387 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 3: And we saw that on October seventh, where they didn't 388 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 3: anticipate any of this. Now that's horrible intelligence collection, horrible 389 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 3: internal security. 390 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: Well, and they had talked themselves into a fantasy world 391 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: in which they were paying Hamas enough to keep Hamas quiet. 392 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 3: Right, So you get into this mentality that your mortal 393 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 3: enemy really isn't a moral enemy. He can just be 394 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 3: bought off. So that's a fundamental misunderstanding of the moral enemy. 395 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 3: And I think a lot of liberal and left wing Israelis, 396 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 3: including in the secret services, feel about Israel that maybe 397 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 3: they really are an occupying power, maybe they're not a 398 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 3: legitimate state. Likely you see with a lot of Americans, 399 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 3: we're a force of evil in the world. 400 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 2: Maybe we're not legitimate. 401 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 3: Imagine having intelligence officers sworn to defend us who don't 402 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 3: believe in our founding principles and think that we are oppressors. 403 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: Here at home domestically. Would you split the FBI into 404 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: a crime fighting organization and an internal security organization. 405 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,479 Speaker 3: Yes, And it's not a question of being anti FBI 406 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 3: have always been supportive of the FBI and its missions 407 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 3: until you see what's happened to it over the years, 408 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 3: and you see not just the corruption within it, but 409 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,360 Speaker 3: the obsolescence of it. It's still the FBI that Jayeggar 410 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 3: Hoover built. We have counterintelligence as a major function to 411 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 3: fight foreign espionage against US, but it's really fly swatting. 412 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 3: So as good as so many of our counterintelligence officers are, 413 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 3: they're just getting the low hanging fruit and they're not 414 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 3: allowed to stay on cases for a long time. But 415 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 3: we have no strategic counterintelligence, like Michelle Van Cleeve has 416 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 3: recommended for so many years, to actively go out and 417 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 3: penetrate adversaries intelligence services, to disrupt them from the inside 418 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 3: and to deceive them so that they can't operate effectively 419 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 3: against us. We have no capabilities like that at all. 420 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: When you think about all that, it seems to me 421 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: that you're talking about both a profound reshaping of the 422 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: CIA and a profound reshaping of the FBI. The second one, 423 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: I assume is going to be but Tell's. 424 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 3: Job right, and he has the temperament for it. You 425 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 3: need a real wolverine who just doesn't care what people 426 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 3: think about him. You can't have some polite lawyer from 427 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 3: the Beltway. So he's the right guy to do it. 428 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 3: He has his own ideas. I only know what he 429 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 3: said in public about them. But the fact is that 430 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 3: he's inheriting an obsolete organization. He's inheriting one that's full 431 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 3: of waste. It's been reorganized to the point that careerism 432 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 3: motivates everything, so you have the worst people going to 433 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 3: the top instead of the best people. And then you 434 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 3: have it where it's not doing the job that most 435 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 3: people in public would expect it to do. So if 436 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 3: it's good at investigating and fighting certain kinds of federal crimes, great, 437 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 3: why don't we take that section out of the bureau 438 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 3: with the best people, move it over to the US Marshals, 439 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,959 Speaker 3: which is relatively a scandal free law enforcement agency and 440 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 3: has been around since the Founding Fathers. 441 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 2: It's the only one. 442 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 3: So move that there, and move the training FBI Academy 443 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 3: a Quantico over to the Marshall Service. Create a standalone 444 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 3: strategic counter intelligence service that has nothing to do with 445 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 3: law enforcement. Take other services. 446 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 2: We don't need. 447 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 3: Two agencies FBI and ATF doing firearms and explosive work, 448 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 3: So get those people out. We don't need two drug 449 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 3: enforcement administrations. But you've get FBI does count in narcotics 450 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 3: as well as DEA, So move them out to DEA 451 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 3: and so forth down the line. And then by that 452 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 3: time all you have left at the FBI is HR. 453 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 3: So just take it and grind it down. I don't 454 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 3: think this requires an Act of Congress to do, because 455 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 3: the FBI has no statutory existence. It was founded by 456 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 3: an Attorney General memorandum and it doesn't have a legal charter. 457 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: So it's created back what the nineteen twenties, nineteen oh eight, 458 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: nineteen oh eight, Wow, that's even pre j Agar Hoover. 459 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was Teddy Roosevelt and he wanted to have 460 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 3: a federal law enforcement agency and Congress didn't want one, 461 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 3: so he went around it by having the Attorney General 462 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 3: write a memorandum detailing agents from the Secret Service, which 463 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 3: was under Treasury, to do work for the Justice Department. 464 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 2: And that was the root of the FBI. It was 465 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 2: a run around. 466 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: I did not know that story. 467 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:08,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great story. 468 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 3: Attorney General Bonaparte, he was Napoleon's grand nephew. 469 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: Is that right? It all gets more and more interesting. Now, 470 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: would you go back to the bottom up system and 471 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: reallocate power back out of Washington to the special agents 472 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: in charge? 473 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 2: Sure? 474 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 3: Absolutely, from the FBI level, but even go further because 475 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 3: there are so many functions that the FBI does that 476 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 3: usurp the power of localities and states, state police or sheriffs. 477 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 3: They will often have a tendency when the FBI takes 478 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 3: over a case without real need to, they'll just surrender 479 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 3: their authority over to the FBI, and they'll even deputize 480 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:49,239 Speaker 3: FBI agents to enforce state and local laws. And then 481 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 3: you see the FBI come in and then they say, well, 482 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 3: we need more of a budget. Look at all the 483 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 3: great things we're doing to fight crime. What this does 484 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 3: is it centralizes all the more law enforcement and instruments 485 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 3: of coercion from the states and counties and localities. So 486 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 3: I would push a lot of those functions back down 487 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 3: and then have special agents in charge of the field 488 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 3: offices be the originating offices of the cases and not Washington, DC. 489 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: So if Cash Hotel called you and said, Okay, I'm 490 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: about to be confirmed, what should I do on my 491 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: first day? What would you tell him? 492 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 3: I would advise him to lockdown the FBI, and it's 493 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 3: electronic access, the same way USAID was locked down. There 494 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 3: are so many malicious actors within the FBI that you 495 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 3: have to get a hold on things before you can 496 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 3: actually run things and start to change them. So it's 497 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 3: not like we're going to shut things down and there'll 498 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 3: be more crime or anything else. It's just to pause 499 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 3: and to get an idea of what's happening, put the 500 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 3: right people in, find the professionals that are inside there, 501 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 3: and just make it work. 502 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: It's great. Listen, Michael, we've covered a lot of ground. 503 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for joining me. Your new book, 504 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: Big Intel, How the CIA and FBI went from Cold 505 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: War heroes to Deep State Villains, is available now on 506 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: Amazon and in bookstores. Everywhere. We're going to feature a 507 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: link to buy it on our show page, and I 508 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: want to let our listeners know they can follow your 509 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: recent work by visiting the Center for Security Policy website 510 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: at Center for Security Policy dot org and by following 511 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: you on x at Jmichael Waller. 512 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Thank you. 513 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: Thank you. To my guest Jaymichael Waller. You can get 514 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: a link to buy his book Big In Tell How 515 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: the CIA and FBI went from Cold War heroes to 516 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: Deep State villains on our show page at newtsworld dot com. 517 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: Newsworld is produced by Ginglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our 518 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 519 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. 520 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at Ginglishtree sixty. If you've 521 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts 522 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: and both rate us with five stars and give us 523 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: a review so others can learn what it's all about. 524 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my 525 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: three free weekly columns at gingishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. 526 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: I'm Newt Gingriish. This is nutsworld.