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Speaker 1: Welcome to Backwoods University, a place where we focus on wildlife,

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Speaker 1: wild places and the people who dedicate their lives to

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Speaker 1: conserving both. Big shout out to Onyx Hunt for their

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Speaker 1: support of this podcast. I'm your host, Lake Pickle. On

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Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to approach one of the most

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Speaker 1: controversial subjects in American wildlife today, head on grizzly bears.

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Speaker 1: Are they endangered or not? And more importantly, how should

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Speaker 1: they fit into the modern landscape? Do we need them here?

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Speaker 1: Point in blank? Do grizzly bears deserve to be a

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Speaker 1: part of our ecosystem? Let's dive in. Last week we

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Speaker 1: heard a conversation with one of the most fascinating humans

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Speaker 1: I have ever met, Tom Parker's stories and insight Bear

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Speaker 1: Charge and All were not only fun to listen to,

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Speaker 1: but they also cue us up perfectly for a bigger

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Speaker 1: conversation for grizzlies as a whole. We know that grizzly

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Speaker 1: bears as a species were listed as endangered in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy five. We know that, at least in the Bob

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Speaker 1: Marshall Wilderness and Mission Mountain area, that both grizzly bears

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Speaker 1: and black bears faced an ecological shift by the loss

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Speaker 1: of high elevation white bark pine habitat. And we know

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Speaker 1: definitively that these days, when grizzly bears come up as

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Speaker 1: a topic in conversation, new publications, or virtually anywhere else,

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Speaker 1: it most often comes up with a lot of differing

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Speaker 1: and often strong and impassioned opinions, opinions such as grizzly

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Speaker 1: should be delisted from the endangered species list, grizzly should

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Speaker 1: remain on the endangered species list, grizzly should be managed

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Speaker 1: as a game animal with a hunting season, or under

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Speaker 1: no form or fashion should a grizzly bear ever be hunted.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, there are a lot of thoughts out there,

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Speaker 1: and to do this subject justice and to be able

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Speaker 1: to cover it thoroughly, we have quite the spread of

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Speaker 1: guests to hear from. But first I want to start

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Speaker 1: this whole thing off by giving you two grizzly encounter

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Speaker 1: stories from the same person. I think the contrast between

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Speaker 1: these two stories gives us a glimpse of how complex

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Speaker 1: this subject can be. And let me be clear here,

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Speaker 1: my goal is not to sway you one way or

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Speaker 1: the other or tell you how to think y'all don't

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Speaker 1: need my help with that. I'm here to present the facts.

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Speaker 1: Y'all make your decisions from there. Here's grizzly encounter number one.

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Speaker 2: I can remember the very first time I saw grizzly bear.

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Speaker 2: It was just that quintessential early September elk hunting. I

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Speaker 2: was with my dad. I couldn't hunt yet. I was

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Speaker 2: just falling along elk or Bugo, and it was foggy.

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Speaker 2: We're in thick logical timber on this north facing bench,

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Speaker 2: and we knew there was going to be bulls in there,

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Speaker 2: and we can hear him bugle when we come over

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Speaker 2: this little rise, and right on this big log was

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Speaker 2: the grizzly bear is tearing it up, beating hands right.

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Speaker 2: And I just remember the way my dad reacted was

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Speaker 2: a way that I'd never seen him react. And as

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Speaker 2: a father, now I understand completely. And now it's one

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Speaker 2: thing to walk around with encounter of a goodly bear

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Speaker 2: when you're with your little kid, you know there's a

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Speaker 2: little more at stake there.

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Speaker 3: And he just went.

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Speaker 2: Silent and held really still, and so I just did

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Speaker 2: the same, just mimicked because when we sat there and

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Speaker 2: just watched this bear who had no idea.

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Speaker 3: Were there probably.

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Speaker 2: For half an hour as it just went down and

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Speaker 2: ripping these logs up and eat nance. And I just

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Speaker 2: remember how beautiful it was and how it was so strong,

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Speaker 2: you know, just way was moving these logs and ripping

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Speaker 2: them apart, and there was just something about it, and

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Speaker 2: it just I remember that made a huge.

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Speaker 3: Imprint on me. It's this idea like even when you see.

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Speaker 2: Like a mountain lion or something like, wow, this thing's

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Speaker 2: out here with me, right, because he don't see him

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Speaker 2: officially back then, he didn't see him very often. Uh,

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Speaker 2: And it was just this you were just a at awe, right,

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Speaker 2: and at some level, I think barb the instinct you're

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Speaker 2: just like, don't squeak, don't run, you know.

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Speaker 3: So it's still yeah, and it was just this awe thing.

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Speaker 2: And it's just after you have a moment like that

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Speaker 2: and then you walk away with it, it's like those

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Speaker 2: great hunt it right, and you walk away, you tell

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Speaker 2: the story like forty thousand times and you just every's

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Speaker 2: so jacked up and like happy and high five and

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Speaker 2: and that story doesn't end for like four days. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And that's how it was with my dad. So it

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Speaker 2: was it just imprinted in me so much, and it

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Speaker 2: was just like that animal created that that moment, and

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Speaker 2: so then I was just as a kid, I was

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Speaker 2: like I wanted.

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Speaker 3: More of that.

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Speaker 1: And here is grizzly encounter number two.

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Speaker 2: And then there's one time. And again I think it's

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Speaker 2: important to tell the story because it's the truth of

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Speaker 2: a bear's capability. I had a bear look at me

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Speaker 2: in a way that I'd never been looked at before.

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Speaker 3: And this was in Yellowstone, actually, yeah, it was this

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Speaker 3: time of year.

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Speaker 2: So we were going out to the very beginning of

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Speaker 2: elk calving season. So elk start calvin. It's right now,

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Speaker 2: May what fifteenth, So they start calviing like the next.

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Speaker 3: Week or two.

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Speaker 2: Sure, and the bears love e elk calves.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's just it.

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Speaker 2: And some of them are very good at it. You know,

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Speaker 2: some bear some grizzlies on the el caves at all.

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Speaker 2: But if you're an elk calf eater and you know

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Speaker 2: that food sources out there, they'll go look for them.

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Speaker 2: So we were going to an area where I knew

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Speaker 2: that there was gonna bears looking for all calves and

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Speaker 2: we're gonna film it. So we go out there and

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Speaker 2: it was just this big open stage brush and there

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Speaker 2: was a bunch of cows out feeding elk, and so

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Speaker 2: he knew there was calves stashed in the sagebrush. And

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Speaker 2: so what you look for is when a bear's in

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Speaker 2: a hunting mode and their behavior, their body language has changed.

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Speaker 3: A little bit more.

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Speaker 2: You know, bears kind of usually kind of wander and

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Speaker 2: they're kind of slow, but when they're looking for something

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Speaker 2: to eat, that's like in predator mode, they kind of

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Speaker 2: have a little bit more of a heightened step of

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Speaker 2: quickness to them, and they start to do this thing

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Speaker 2: like a bird dog when you take a bird dog out.

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Speaker 2: They just started to zig zagon, just trying to flush.

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Speaker 3: That's what they're doing.

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Speaker 2: They're just trying to flush the calves. Because they can't

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Speaker 2: smell them, they just try to bump them and then

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Speaker 2: if they get up or they'd make noise or move, they.

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Speaker 3: Just nail them.

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Speaker 2: So we're sitting there watching this bear coming in. I'm like, yes,

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Speaker 2: it's perfect, I know there's calves. Here's a bear coming in,

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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden it just stops and looks

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Speaker 2: towards us and starts walking on a straight line, but

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Speaker 2: with that same kind.

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Speaker 3: Of heightened behavior.

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Speaker 2: And I'll never forget because I always paying attention to

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Speaker 2: the wind. The wind is blowing in my face, like

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Speaker 2: fifteen twenty miles an hour, so I'm like, this bear

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Speaker 2: can't smell us, so we're just gonna hold still. Well

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Speaker 2: this it keeps coming and coming. I just think it's

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Speaker 2: behavior is weird. It's kind of looking like it's looking

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Speaker 2: at us right. So I stand up and I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I don't like the way this bears look.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna just let it know. I'm a person.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I just don't know what you are if your

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Speaker 2: holding still right. So I just go up and I

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Speaker 2: just like wave my arm, like come over here, bear,

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Speaker 2: And as soon as I do that, it just starts

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Speaker 2: jogging like faster, and I'm like.

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Speaker 3: Oh, this ain't good. So then I want to thing

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Speaker 3: I happen to me.

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Speaker 2: The bear spray and I have a thirty mile an

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Speaker 2: hour wind in my face or twenty mile an hour

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Speaker 2: wind in my face.

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Speaker 3: Now that this is not good.

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Speaker 2: So I just I remember getting up on me, didn't

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Speaker 2: hear me?

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Speaker 3: And I go bear, I'm ready here, bear, And.

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Speaker 2: I'm waving my arms and kind of doing jumping jacks,

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Speaker 2: and he just starts scoring and ears are forward like

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Speaker 2: locked in like a cat chasing the mount, and it's

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Speaker 2: closing the gap. And I remember I was just with

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Speaker 2: one camera guy, and I just remember thinking, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: reach down grab my backpack.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna throw the backpack at this.

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Speaker 2: Bear, and then if it hesitates from that backpacks in

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Speaker 2: front of it, I'm gonna try to like get off

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Speaker 2: to the side of it and like do some like

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Speaker 2: army roll and bear sprays. So when I picked up

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Speaker 2: my backpack over my head, it was probably ten yards

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Speaker 2: and it just as soon as I go like this,

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Speaker 2: it just locks, it breaks up, just screeches. So I

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Speaker 2: see this change of behavior, right, and I just hold

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Speaker 2: that backpack over my head and I just hold still,

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Speaker 2: and it sits there.

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Speaker 4: And just.

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Speaker 2: Just growls and just this big deep guttural move moaning,

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Speaker 2: and it does these like little flinch like kind of

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Speaker 2: like flinches towards us to try to get.

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Speaker 3: Us to move. And I just didn't say anything.

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Speaker 2: I just literally held the backpack like this over my head,

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Speaker 2: and just as it started to kind of half circle

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Speaker 2: walk around, just kind of mirrored it like a like

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Speaker 2: a like a great dish, right, And I don't know

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Speaker 2: what happened, man, it did this pride for twenty seconds,

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Speaker 2: thirty seconds, but it felt like forever.

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Speaker 3: And then it got to the side of us in

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Speaker 3: the wind.

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Speaker 2: I think it probably got a little bit of a

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Speaker 2: whiff of us, growled and moaned a us a bunch more,

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Speaker 2: and then it just walked away really slow. And when

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Speaker 2: I looked at this bear up close, emaciated hip bones

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Speaker 2: are sticking out.

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Speaker 3: I looked in its mouth.

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Speaker 2: It was gap mouth, and it was all salivating, and

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Speaker 2: it was all foamy around its mouth. Its teeth were flat.

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Speaker 2: This is a big, old male, old desperate and I

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Speaker 2: know just the way that bear looked at us that

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Speaker 2: it considered us as food in that moment. I think

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Speaker 2: it's such a I mean, it's lightning striking twice kind

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Speaker 2: of odds, but desperation, man, any animal us even right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: probably would never have crossed that line. But it was

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Speaker 2: at that point in its life where it probably was

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Speaker 2: in the den all winter star went out there was

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Speaker 2: trying to catch all calves, couldn't catch any. And then

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Speaker 2: they just two two hundred pound dudes standing over there,

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Speaker 2: and thought, hmmm, they look like I got to eat right,

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Speaker 2: so I'll die, and it just it decided. But then

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Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe I became six foot five with

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Speaker 2: this weird hat on my head and didn't run, didn't

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Speaker 2: make any did anything wrong, and just sold my ground

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Speaker 2: And that was just enough to make it decide not

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Speaker 2: to cross the line that day. But I didn't sleep

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Speaker 2: for like three nights after that. It shook me so hard.

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Speaker 2: I mean again, at that point, even thousands of encounters,

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Speaker 2: but never one like that. And it's just one of

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Speaker 2: those things where you're like, this is the reality is

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Speaker 2: these bears are capable of doing this, no doubt, right,

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Speaker 2: And if you let your guard down and you act

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Speaker 2: like they're big, fuzzy, teddy bears, that's how you're gonna

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Speaker 2: get hurt. It's going out there understanding what they're capable of,

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Speaker 2: understanding what they really are, and and then being ready

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Speaker 2: for it.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, It's just that's what you gotta do.

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Speaker 1: Two encounters with grizzlies with the same person, but two

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Speaker 1: very different experiences. The person you hurt tall talking there

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Speaker 1: was a man named Casey Anderson. Casey's a lifelong outdoorsman,

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Speaker 1: a naturalist, a hunter, and a person who has spent

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Speaker 1: his career explaining nature to the world, which included some

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Speaker 1: appearances on Oprah and Conan. By the way, some wild stuff.

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Speaker 1: We'll also be hearing from some representatives from Montana Department

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Speaker 1: of Fish, Wildlife and Parks.

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Speaker 5: Danielle Euler, I'm the Wildlife Stewardship Outreach specialist at Montana Fish,

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Speaker 5: Wildlife and Parks. I work throughout the entire state.

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Speaker 6: Kyle Roscoe, I'm with Montana Fishwife and Parks Bear Management.

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Speaker 6: I'm a technician with those guys out of Region three

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Speaker 6: here in Bozeman. Jeremiah Smith, I'm the grizzly bear specialist

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Speaker 6: FIR Region three in Southwest Montana, and I work for

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Speaker 6: Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks.

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Speaker 1: Between all the different perspectives that we have represented here,

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Speaker 1: covering everything from experiences of a modern out doorsman, wildlife conflict,

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Speaker 1: and wildlife biology. I firmly believe that during this podcast

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Speaker 1: will be like a hungry bear flipping rocks over and

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Speaker 1: search for food and leave no stone unturned. Let's dive

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Speaker 1: in first by getting a basic grasp on grizzly bear

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Speaker 1: biology and ecology. This is important having a better understanding

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Speaker 1: of the animal in question will allow us to form

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Speaker 1: much more informed opinions.

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Speaker 5: First kind of cool thing to think about grizzly bears

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Speaker 5: is like the landscape that shaped them, just like with

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Speaker 5: black bears. You know, grizzly bears are animals of open landscapes,

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Speaker 5: not exclusively so, but you know, prairies, tundra, meadows, places

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Speaker 5: where they can dig for food in a grass dominated

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Speaker 5: landscape with cover. Their utilizing all their habitat. So that's

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Speaker 5: a defining feature. And we think that part of why

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Speaker 5: they are reactive to encounters, why they act a little

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Speaker 5: bit different than black bears, is that being an animal

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Speaker 5: of open lands, when they're you know, encountering a threat,

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Speaker 5: their instinct is to stand their ground and protect themselves

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Speaker 5: or act aggressively. So I think that's the why grizzlies

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Speaker 5: have the reputation that they do. So it's a little

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Speaker 5: bit of their evolutionary history, right. And then as far

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Speaker 5: as they're yearly cycles, so they're coming out of hibernation

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Speaker 5: in March, April and May, they're awake all the way

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Speaker 5: into the fall. The beginning of the season is kind

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Speaker 5: of a slow progression of bears coming out of their den.

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Speaker 5: Then they're looking for food anywhere it's available, high up

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Speaker 5: in the mountains or down low. The biggest limiting factor

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Speaker 5: there being snow, so once our snowpack is melted off,

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Speaker 5: they could be high or they could be down low.

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Speaker 5: And then breeding season is Midsummer. Then later into the

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Speaker 5: fall they go into hyperphasia, so that's like late August

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Speaker 5: to the time they hibernate and they're eating as much

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Speaker 5: as they can to get ready for winter, and that's

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Speaker 5: when we see a spike in human bear conflicts because

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Speaker 5: bears that are getting ready for winter eating as much

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Speaker 5: as they can, they're not as aware of their surroundings,

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Speaker 5: so it's just pretty easy to surprise them. One study

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Speaker 5: showed that they consumed up to twenty thousand calories a

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Speaker 5: day at the peak of hyperphasia. So that's not the

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Speaker 5: entire time, but you can imagine a wild animal looking

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Speaker 5: for that amount of food. How easy that would be

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Speaker 5: because I like forging, hunting all that, and I like

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Speaker 5: knowing my plants, and I try to think about going

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Speaker 5: in the woods and like getting that much for calories

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Speaker 5: in a day, and it would be it might take

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Speaker 5: me a lot longer than a day to find that

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Speaker 5: much food, so it's easy to surprise them that way.

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Speaker 5: And then all of us here bowhunters in this group,

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Speaker 5: so I have no shade on bow hunting. But bow

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Speaker 5: hunting is risky in bear country because you're quiet, you're

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Speaker 5: sneaking around the time of year when they're easy to surprise,

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Speaker 5: and you put your in kind of the same areas

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Speaker 5: as the grizzly bears are, and then they're going into

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Speaker 5: the den end of November, beginning of December, so that's

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Speaker 5: a little bit of a rundown on their yearly cycles.

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Speaker 1: Gris habitat selection and yearly cycles essential info for forming

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Speaker 1: opinions and making decisions on a species. Now let's learn

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Speaker 1: about their size and what they eat.

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Speaker 6: I'm glad you brought this up because it's a myth.

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Speaker 2: That's a good point.

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Speaker 4: Ye, it's the reason great topic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because you'll hear like, oh, that bears stood fifteen

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Speaker 1: foot tall.

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Speaker 4: That's eight hundred pounder for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, no, everyone thinks we have these eight hundred thousand

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Speaker 6: pound bears. Jeremiah and I we handled two adult male

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Speaker 6: grizzlies this week. One was four hundred the other was

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Speaker 6: four to sixty. And that's a great average size. Granted

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Speaker 6: they're coming out of the den, but a lot of

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Speaker 6: our bears haven't lost a ton of weight, you know,

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Speaker 6: right when they come out of that den. So four

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Speaker 6: or five hundred, it's not an uncommon size for an

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Speaker 6: adult male. Grizz and his prime females are that two

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Speaker 6: to three hundred, I mean two fifty. That's a good

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Speaker 6: average sized female.

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Speaker 4: And there's a fall weight, and there's there's a spring weight, right,

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Speaker 4: so they're going to gain calories as they go through.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, I think the record of out of all

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Speaker 6: you know, over a thousand bears we've caught down here

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Speaker 6: in the gritty Yellowstone ecosystems, just over seven hundred pounds.

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Speaker 1: Really, I'll tell you what, which you'll hear at home, right.

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Speaker 1: I won't say here it all the time, but I

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Speaker 1: have heard it. I mean, like it does make sense. Right,

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Speaker 1: the further you get away from grizzlies, the higher of

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Speaker 1: the misunderstanding to get. But they're like they got a

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Speaker 1: thousand pound bears out there. I don't think they do.

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Speaker 4: Alaska, Yeah, not down here, but Alaska, we don't have

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Speaker 4: the cow down here.

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Speaker 6: I mean, it's a tough place to make a living.

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Speaker 6: For these bears. They eat over two hundred and sixty

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Speaker 6: different things down here to make a living.

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Speaker 4: You know, really, from the day they get up to

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Speaker 4: the day they go to bed, there's on average about

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Speaker 4: two hundred and sixty different species between plants, animals, you

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Speaker 4: name it, that they kind of move through. They're an

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Speaker 4: opportunistic omnivore and that's why they're still walking the planet.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we've heard bear encounter and charge stories from Casey.

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Speaker 1: We've heard grizzly ecology and biology from Danielle, Kyle and Jeremiah,

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Speaker 1: which leads me to believe that we're ready to dive

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Speaker 1: into more thought provoking questions such as how should we

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Speaker 1: manage grizzly bears today and how should we shape our

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Speaker 1: human attitude towards them.

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Speaker 2: I grew up in Montana, so since I could walk,

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Speaker 2: I've been in grizzly bear country. I mean almost every

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Speaker 2: day for thirty thirty five years, I've been out in

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Speaker 2: grizzly country, or some facet of that. I've spent I

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Speaker 2: mean an imaginable amount of time. I've had thousands, no exaggeration,

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Speaker 2: grizzly bear encounters. I've spent a good part of my

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Speaker 2: life sneaking up and trying to film grizzly bears doing

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Speaker 2: the opposite of what people should be doing. So I

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Speaker 2: fast tracked to trying to understand them. And then on

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Speaker 2: top of that, when I was twenty five, I.

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Speaker 3: Decided I was going to raise a grizzly bear. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I saw that.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, I've had this like crazy kind of

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Speaker 2: grizzly saturated kind of life, you know. So I've seen

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Speaker 2: all sides, you know, and I like to put it

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Speaker 2: in perspective. I mean, I've raised the grizzly bear. I've

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Speaker 2: wrestled with the grizzly bear. I've been charged by grizzly

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Speaker 2: bears in the wild, and I've carried a man's body

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Speaker 2: off the mountain.

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Speaker 3: That's been killed by a grizzly bear.

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Speaker 2: I've seen the whole spectrum. They're all a product of

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Speaker 2: their environment and how they've been raised, and how they

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Speaker 2: experienced the earth, and their time on Earth and their experiences,

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Speaker 2: and I mean, I know, you know, and it's a

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Speaker 2: big issue right now. When you're making management decisions based

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Speaker 2: on fear or emotion, they're not making good decisions. And

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Speaker 2: I worry about that with with grizzly bears a little bit,

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Speaker 2: and I think that you see, you can see the

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Speaker 2: result of that. I mean a lot of times it's

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Speaker 2: like and people are like, why do we need them around?

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Speaker 3: You know, that's what you get that all the time.

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Speaker 3: It's like, why are we even worried about them?

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Speaker 1: Why are we trying to keep them here?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And so my question was having the understanding and kind

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Speaker 1: of like the value system that I have from so

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Speaker 1: much time hunting. I want grizzlies around, But how do

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Speaker 1: you explain to somebody like, this is why we need

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Speaker 1: them here? How do you get that across?

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Speaker 3: It's a tough one.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's a question I asked myself all the time.

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Speaker 3: I mean, do we need them here?

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Speaker 2: You tell me?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I mean I think that if we decide that we're

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Speaker 2: going to weed out everything that makes us uncomfortable in

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Speaker 2: the wild in the wilderness, we're going to kill exactly

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Speaker 2: what the wilderness is. And there's something to be said

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Speaker 2: about a grizzly bear being out there. When you walk

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Speaker 2: around here in Montana, in grizzlebear country, you feel it, right,

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Speaker 2: It's a feeling you don't feel probably in Mississippi it's

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Speaker 2: a feeling you don't feel a lot of other places,

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Speaker 2: and there's something about that. There's a value in that

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Speaker 2: that's you can't replace it. And you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's all the you know, you hear all the rhetoric

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Speaker 2: and things that people say about you know, they're a

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Speaker 2: keystone species. There a specie that indicates a healthy ecosystem.

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Speaker 3: That's true, I think.

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Speaker 2: At some level. But again it's like what does that mean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a big it's a big broad term that

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Speaker 1: sounds nice, What does it mean?

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Speaker 3: What does it mean?

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Speaker 2: And I do think that you know, if a grizzly

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Speaker 2: bears living there, it does indicate that you're in a

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Speaker 2: place that is healthy. And I think ultimately, no matter

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Speaker 2: why you want that resource to remain intact, to have

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Speaker 2: that indication is a wonderful thing because a healthy ecosystem

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Speaker 2: is something that everybody, no matter how you use it,

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Speaker 2: is important. And if that requires it you have to

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Speaker 2: carry bear spray or a handgun, learn how to.

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Speaker 3: Use both your tools.

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Speaker 2: That requires doing different things with your food sources. If

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Speaker 2: that requires us having that outdoor knowledge to keep these

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Speaker 2: places alive, I think it's a it's something worth having

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Speaker 2: and we're doing Casey gave us a lot.

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Speaker 1: To think about there, And if you're and you did

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Speaker 1: hear him correctly when he said that he decided to

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Speaker 1: raise a grizzly bear when he was twenty five years old.

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Speaker 1: This action is one of the many things that landed

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Speaker 1: him on shows like Oprah. Like I mentioned earlier, this

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Speaker 1: guy has lived an interesting life to say the least.

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Speaker 1: But here's the main thing that I think we should

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Speaker 1: focus on from that last piece, and just say, y'all

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Speaker 1: can't say I didn't give you a fair warning. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to ask some hard and thought provoking questions. Here

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Speaker 1: you're ready, Here we go. Do we need grizzly bears?

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Speaker 1: I mean, really think about it. Do we need grizzly bears?

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Speaker 1: And allow me to challenge us further in saying, when

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Speaker 1: you think about your answer, don't think about it in

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Speaker 1: terms of addressing an audience of folks that already understand

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Speaker 1: hunting for the life of an outdoorsman, think about having

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Speaker 1: to answer that to a much broader audience because in

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Speaker 1: disclaimer this part, here's my opinion, but I feel like

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Speaker 1: we almost have to think that way, especially when you're

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Speaker 1: discussing an animal that finds its way into mainstream conversations

436
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,440
Speaker 1: as much as grizzlies do. Why do we need grizzlies?

437
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 1: Why should grizzly bears be listed or delisted on an

438
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 1: endangered species list? Should grizzly bears be hunted or should

439
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,560
Speaker 1: they not be hunted? There are folks out there that

440
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 1: never want to see grizzlies removed from the endangered species list.

441
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 1: There's folks out there that think grizzlies should be removed

442
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,159
Speaker 1: and should be managed like a game animal with the

443
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 1: regular hunting season. There's folks that think we should be

444
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 1: able to shoot any bear that we see on site,

445
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,680
Speaker 1: regardless of the situation. And there's folks that think grizzlies

446
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,679
Speaker 1: are warm and fuzzy and would never harm you, so

447
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 1: we should never harm them. Like I said, there's a

448
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,960
Speaker 1: wide spectrum of opinions out there. So do you have

449
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 1: an answer? Think about it. Let's focus in on the facts,

450
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,159
Speaker 1: because in my experience, when honing in on topics of

451
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 1: high opinion, relying on facts is most important.

452
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 4: The way our programs are designed is to try to

453
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,359
Speaker 4: dispel a lot of the miss about grizzly bears and

454
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 4: concentrate on the facts. About grizzly bears. What we know

455
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,199
Speaker 4: through science, biology, experience, our eyes, what we see, what

456
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,159
Speaker 4: we do, how we deal with them, where we see them,

457
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,679
Speaker 4: and how they interact on the landscape, whether it's on

458
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 4: public land, private land, in the wilderness or you know,

459
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 4: mixed up amongst you know, houses and stuff like Big

460
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 4: scy or even the outskirts of Bozeman. Right, So there's

461
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:24,880
Speaker 4: a lot of angles there. But I think most people,

462
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 4: even if there is some misunderstanding of grizzly bears, if

463
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 4: they're interested, they'll go out and they'll try to learn that.

464
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 4: And I think this the best folks can do. Things

465
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 4: are changing, they're adapting to their landscape, just like we're

466
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 4: adapting to ours, and so just getting that information out

467
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 4: to folks, and we're an open book. I mean, you know,

468
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 4: folks call us and ask us all sorts of questions,

469
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 4: not just from a reactionary standpoint and due to conflicts,

470
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 4: but also proactive things that we can do moving forward.

471
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 4: And so you know, they're a wild animal. At the

472
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 4: end of the day, they're dangerous and unpredictable. There's no

473
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,439
Speaker 4: denying that. And a grizzly bear and a black bear

474
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 4: can rear change anything anytime if it chose to do so. Fortunately,

475
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 4: most of the time we don't see that. But there

476
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 4: are encounters that happen. There are bad events that happen,

477
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,959
Speaker 4: and those things are what I think make the news,

478
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 4: that's what you hear about all the time. And so

479
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 4: our job is to sort those instances out, but also

480
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 4: keep on analyzing why did this happen. On average, we

481
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 4: handle around one hundred to one hundred and fifty conflicts

482
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 4: a year. That's nowhere even close to probably what's actually happening. Right,

483
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,959
Speaker 4: it's only if you call us and talk to us

484
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 4: that we can catalog these conflicts and try to figure

485
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 4: them out and work on them. So again, Kyle and

486
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 4: MAI's job essentially is conflict specialists when it comes to

487
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,239
Speaker 4: grizzly bears and black bears, mainly grizzly bears, and so

488
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 4: in Montana, in the Yellowstone ecosystem, we have a high

489
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 4: density of grizzly bears that's recovered. It's a great growing population.

490
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 4: We've got a lot of folks that are here. That

491
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 4: population is increasing, and so the interaction between people and

492
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 4: bears is happening, and it'll probably happen a little more

493
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 4: often than it did twenty or thirty years ago. You know,

494
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 4: my predecessor, Kevin Frye, was a grizzly bear specialist here

495
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 4: for thirty years, and I worked with him for fifteen

496
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 4: of those years. And even in the fifteen years I

497
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 4: worked with him, I saw a significant change in southwest

498
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 4: Montana as far as not only the number of people

499
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 4: that live here and build here and move here, but

500
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 4: the number of bears that are here and their density

501
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 4: in one particular spot, and the expansion and increased distribution

502
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 4: of those bears. Right, it's a natural thing. And so

503
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 4: our jobs are not only reactively responding to conflicts between

504
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 4: people and bears, but also proactively getting out ahead of

505
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 4: that and trying to prevent conflicts from happening in the

506
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 4: first place. And and Danielle's role in that is massive

507
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 4: because back in the day, you know, me and Kevin,

508
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 4: I kind of did everything, and when before I worked

509
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 4: for him, he did it all by himself for the

510
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 4: most part, And as that bear popular grew and the

511
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 4: human population grew, he didn't have time or we didn't

512
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 4: have time to go run over and do all these

513
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 4: things we really wanted to do. As far as preventative

514
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 4: measures for bears because we're reacting to conflicts. And so

515
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 4: fast forward to now, and we've got this great education

516
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 4: program that's huge. We've got me and Kyle being able

517
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 4: to work with our warden staff and our biologists staff

518
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 4: to handle both black bears and grizzly bear conflicts and

519
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 4: turn it into kind of one large program that can

520
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 4: adapt not only locally, but regionally on the fly and

521
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 4: then in between regions. You know, Southwest Montana is an

522
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 4: interesting spot for grizzly bears because we back up against

523
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 4: Yellowstone National Park Idaho, Wyoming. We all work together because

524
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 4: bears don't know borders or boundaries, and so we all

525
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 4: know each other.

526
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 3: We talk all the time.

527
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,959
Speaker 4: We've worked with each other over the years, and so

528
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 4: it's a very interactive group of people that are dealing

529
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 4: with and handling conflicts and trying to proactively prove vent

530
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 4: them long term with a growing population of bears and people.

531
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: Allow me to further contextualize some of what Jeremiah just

532
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: shared with us. In nineteen seventy five, the year that

533
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 1: grizzly bears were listed as endangered, the state of Montana

534
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: had a recorded human population of seven hundred and forty

535
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: eight thousand, two hundred and eight. Idaho had eight hundred

536
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: and thirty one thousand, nine hundred and eighty two, Wyoming

537
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: three hundred and eighty one thousand, six hundred and ninety five.

538
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: Fast forward to twenty twenty four, the recorded population of

539
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 1: Montana is now over one point one million, Idaho right

540
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: at two million, and Wyoming right over half a million.

541
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: That's a significant population increase of humans, which in turn

542
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: means more humans on the landscape, more housing, more humans

543
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: spreading into areas where they previously were not. Pair that

544
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: with the recovering and growing bear population, and you were

545
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: met with the unavoidable reality that humans and bears are

546
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: simply going to cross paths more often.

547
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 6: No, there's definitely a lot of people that have figured out, like,

548
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 6: if we're going to be here, they're here, we're going

549
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 6: to have to tolerate each other. And a lot of

550
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 6: folks are great, you know, they understand that the bears

551
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 6: just trying to make a living, same as them, and

552
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 6: if you don't work side by side and kind of

553
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 6: have that tolerance for one another, it's not going to

554
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 6: work in the long run.

555
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 5: Oh, I was just going to say, there was a

556
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 5: human dimension study, a social science study on people's attitudes

557
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 5: about grizzly bearries in Montana. I don't know four years

558
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 5: ago or so, and what the common thread was is

559
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 5: like most people, it was like over ninety six percent

560
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 5: I think valued grizzly bears as a part of Montana's

561
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 5: natural heritage. Where you started to see differences is like

562
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 5: what people's tolerance were for how where they lived and

563
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 5: how close they lived to their homes. So some folks

564
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 5: have a really high tolerance. They're fine with grizzly bears

565
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 5: fairly close, but pretty much nobody wants them in their backyard.

566
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 5: You know, whether you love grizzly bears are you're pretty

567
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 5: skeptical and you're not. You don't want them anywhere near you.

568
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 5: Nobody's really interested in having them really really close to

569
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 5: their home. But overall, Montanas appreciate that that grizzly bears

570
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 5: live here.

571
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: I'll be completely honest with y'all. In the studies and

572
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 1: research I've done so far for this podcast, I have

573
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: yet to find an animal or even a topic that

574
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 1: brings about more nuance than a grizzly bear. Danielle said

575
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: it best by referencing the study that showed over ninety

576
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 1: six percent of people in Montana valuing grizzlies as part

577
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: of the Montana heritage. But where you start to see

578
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: variances is when you get into people's tolerances for them.

579
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: So in Layman's terms, people are thinking, so, where are

580
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: these bears exactly? And how close are they to my house?

581
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: So to speak? And as I stated earlier, the human

582
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: population in these grizzly areas only seems to be going up.

583
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: So at some point it's inevitable that we as humans

584
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 1: are going to have to make some decisions.

585
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: And it's a funny time, especially over in this neck

586
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 2: the woods here in Yellowstone Country in Montana, Idaho Wyoming,

587
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: where we're on the cusp of what are we going

588
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 2: to do next with grizzly bears? Right, And a lot

589
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 2: of people would expect that I would be like anti

590
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: hunting grizzly bears, but I'm not.

591
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm a hunter.

592
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 2: I understand the importance of managing animals, and no matter

593
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 2: what they are on a landscape, we need to it's

594
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 2: the only way that they're going to be around for

595
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 2: a long term. But I also hear from a lot

596
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: of hunters that the reason why they shouldn't we should

597
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 2: be hunting grizzly bears is because I see them all

598
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: the time when I'm out hunting. They're everywhere. They're losing

599
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 2: their fear of people. Is that a reason to hunt them?

600
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: We did that with all the other animals. Is that

601
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 2: the reason to hunt them, or or should we hunt

602
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 2: them because their population is getting too high and for

603
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: this ecosystem and a bunch of biologists has actually come

604
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 2: up with the data to say that's the case. Maybe

605
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: that's that's the reason we should hunt them, not because

606
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: we're afraid of them.

607
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 3: And it's okay if you can be afraid.

608
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 2: Of something to understand, then I think that that's the

609
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,479
Speaker 2: part we have to understand them. And the thing is, man,

610
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: I'll tell you it's a lot of people aren listen

611
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: to this and think that this guy's crazy why we're

612
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,719
Speaker 2: listening to him. But I'm here to tell you you know,

613
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 2: I'm not against hunting grizzly bears, not at all. Again,

614
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 2: And I think that's really important, and I think it's

615
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: really important for us to understand animals that were out

616
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 2: there in the woods with no matter what they are right.

617
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: And I think in that understanding we can make better

618
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 2: management decisions. Yeah, and I think that's just the bottom line, man.

619
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 2: We can't manage animals based on fear. We have to

620
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 2: base our animal management practices on facts.

621
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: Interesting take and insight from a man like Casey Anderson.

622
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: I appreciate both the thoroughness of his answer as well

623
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: as his willingness to share with us outright his thoughts

624
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: on such a controversial topic. And I want to hear

625
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: more from him on this, but first I want to

626
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: be sure to let the biologists from MFWP way in

627
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: on this subject as well.

628
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 4: At the end of the day, for the most part,

629
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 4: grizzly bears required large chunks of dirt without people in it.

630
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 3: Right.

631
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 4: So the original idea when they listed grizzly bears you

632
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 4: hear about all these recovery zones is that they sought

633
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 4: these areas like Yellowstone National Park and a surrounding area

634
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 4: they called a recovery zone, that we would recover bears

635
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 4: in these areas because there's large, contentious pieces of public

636
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 4: land that don't have people in it. Right. People visit,

637
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 4: people move through, but they actually have fairly untapped, untouched

638
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 4: forest or wilderness or different type of land use classifications

639
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 4: you want to have. And I don't think what anybody

640
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 4: thought backed in was that those bears would start to

641
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 4: expand so far out like they assumed.

642
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 3: I think that the.

643
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 4: Idea of the recovery when it met the original recovery criteria,

644
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 4: that the bear would be delisted and they'd be managed

645
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 4: just like every other game species in Montana. And that

646
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 4: time frame has been pushed along over time. And so

647
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 4: that's a lot of arguments you hear in the news

648
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 4: and everything else about grizzly bears is delist them, don't

649
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 4: delist them. All that well, we stay underneath of that

650
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 4: because we our role in grizzly bear management doesn't matter

651
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 4: whether they're on or off the list.

652
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: Right, your job doesn't change.

653
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 3: We're still dealing with conflicts no matter what.

654
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 4: Now. As an agency and as bear specialist, I truly believe, Yeah,

655
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 4: I think grizzly bear should be delisted. Absolutely. The numbers

656
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 4: are there, they're recovered, they've done a great job. We've

657
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 4: got good secure habitat, we've got great rules and regulations,

658
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 4: regulatory mechanisms they are put in place, and yes, those

659
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 4: things could be changed here and there, for sure, there's

660
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 4: no arguing that. But to keep something on a list

661
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 4: for that long, I mean, it's a goofy fact. And

662
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 4: these guys probably get sick of me saying it, But

663
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 4: I was born in nineteen seventy five. These things have

664
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 4: been on the list as long as I've been alive.

665
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 4: Fifty years is a long time to keep something on

666
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 4: a list, you know. I mean the idea that in

667
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 4: the Endangered Species Act is to recover and move on

668
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 4: to something else, and I think that's what a lot

669
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 4: of people get frustrated with. I'm sure, I think they

670
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 4: really do. And you know, these areas where like you

671
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 4: and Kyle were talking about, Danielle, it's like you can

672
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 4: go into an area and have a mix of people

673
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 4: in Montana and their opinions and their ideas on grizzly bears.

674
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: And that's great because I.

675
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 4: Think that's the way it should be, because everybody's got

676
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 4: their own experience with them, They've got their own effect

677
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 4: that the bears have on them. You know, if you're

678
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 4: a cattle rancher and you've got a bear coming down

679
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 4: and eating you know, four or five calves every other day,

680
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 4: that's not good. I wouldn't be happy.

681
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 3: About that either, you know.

682
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 4: And so our jobs and wildlife services in those particular

683
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 4: instances is to get in there and try to remedy

684
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 4: that situation because there's a lot of bears out there

685
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 4: that aren't causing conflict. Sure, because we manage the population,

686
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 4: we don't manage the individual and that makes a big

687
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 4: difference because that's how wildlife management should be. Singling out

688
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 4: individual animals I think can cause a lot of problems

689
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 4: when it comes to the public's view of how wildlife

690
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 4: is managed.

691
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: Do you think there's any like possibility wise if they've

692
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: becoming delisted? I know that's an opinion question.

693
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 3: No, it's a podcast, but my fingers are crossed now.

694
00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's politics and litigation, and so again

695
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 4: we that's above our level. We kind of stay out

696
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 4: of that. Sure, as far as recovery criteria goes for

697
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 4: the original recovery zones in Montana, they have they have

698
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 4: accomplished that.

699
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 6: In fact, Yellowstone Day.

700
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 4: For Yellowstone Cabinet Yack, the Yellowstone ecosystem has literally been

701
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 4: recovered since technically, as far as recovery criteria goes ninety

702
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:23,719
Speaker 4: nine to two thousand and two.

703
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 3: Right in there, checked all the box, checked all the.

704
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 4: Boxes, n CD.

705
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 3: I don't think as.

706
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 4: Far off, but yeah, yeah, and the Cria yaks has

707
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 4: not quite gotten there yet. But these two ecosystems make

708
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 4: up Idaho, Montana and Wyoming and most of Montana. The

709
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 4: cabinet yak is a pretty small component up there, but

710
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 4: just as important. But when you've got a massive recovery

711
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 4: population sitting next door, you know you're gonna have distribution

712
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 4: that's going in and out.

713
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: Sure. Like I said at the beginning of this episode,

714
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: my role here is not to tell you how to think.

715
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: I'm here to present you with facts and what I

716
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: learn doing this research in these interviews, and the facts

717
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: are that biologists and grizzly bear specialists believe that there's

718
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: enough data and evidence to support removing bears from the

719
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,919
Speaker 1: endangered species list. I believe this to be a very

720
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: important factor. I also think it's important to highlight Jeremiah's

721
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: comment about the difference between managing populations rather than managing

722
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: individual animals. Virtually all of the successes that North America

723
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: has had in terms of wildlife management has come from

724
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: an angle of population management, not individual animal management. This

725
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: is an important factor that cannot be ignored, regardless of

726
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: what species we're talking about.

727
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 2: You use the word resource, right, Yeah, that all means

728
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 2: something different to other people. You know, to other people

729
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 2: like Okay, now you're looking at them like a commodity

730
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: and they're just an animal on the landscape, and you're

731
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 2: like no, no, egawn, you know, that's a broad word there.

732
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 2: In some level, there's a value there and it's like

733
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 2: a commodity. But sometimes you just got to look at

734
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 2: it some way and get mad about this the idea

735
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 2: that you've used that word, and it's one of those

736
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 2: things that's kind of ridiculous to me because I think ultimately,

737
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 2: if that resource is there, if the bears come back

738
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 2: in Montana and we have the ability to hunt them,

739
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 2: then they're healthy.

740
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's a good indicator.

741
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and that resource no matter what the value

742
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 2: of that resource is, where that means you're gonna go

743
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 2: with your son and opening day and kill one, or

744
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: if that means you're gonna go walk out there while

745
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 2: you're sniffing wildflowers and see one, it's a value. It's

746
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 2: a value that we all collectively want on the landscape.

747
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 2: And if we can figure out away from to make

748
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: that happen through management, that's what conservation is all about, right,

749
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 2: and everybody can be happy.

750
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: Here's some more facts for you autumb Ale over in

751
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: regards to wildlife in North America, animals that are hunted

752
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: sustainably with regulated and managed hunting seasons are some of

753
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: the healthiest wildlife populations throughout the entire country. And there's

754
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons for that, some of which being

755
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: habitat protection, restoration, and also the cultural value that we

756
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: as humans assigned to them. That's a fact. I want

757
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 1: to ask Jeremiah Smith about his opinion on the future

758
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: of grizzly bears and what a potential hunting season could

759
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: look like if grizzlies were ever delisted.

760
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 4: In regards to grizzly bears, I hope we're a delisted population.

761
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 4: I hope we have the state management, which we already do,

762
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 4: to be honest with you, management of grizzly bears since

763
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 4: the day they've been listed. The states are doing the

764
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 4: day to day management and are federal partners. You know Yellowstone,

765
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 4: Grand Teeton, they're managing bears in there as well. The

766
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 4: Fish and Wildlife services role is really where we check

767
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 4: in because it is a delist or a listed population.

768
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 4: In order for us to do a management action, so

769
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 4: to speak, we need to get permission to do that.

770
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 4: And they've always been pretty dang good about working with

771
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 4: us on that because we're on the ground dealing with it.

772
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 4: But moving forward that there's still a I think a

773
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 4: viable population of grizzlies on the landscape that low conflicts

774
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 4: with people. You know, everybody's kind of getting along. I

775
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 4: think what we've accomplished inside the recovery zones with successful recoveries,

776
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 4: but I think that's something to hang a hat on.

777
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 4: I think they've done a great job. Those bears are

778
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 4: going to continue to reproduce and be available out there

779
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 4: for the folks that want to go and check them out,

780
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 4: and you know, maintain a little bit of a buffer

781
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 4: between people and bears. And that means that conflict number

782
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 4: drops and everybody's okay with that.

783
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: What about you know, the idea of grizzlies being delisted?

784
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: What about that changes? Like why you're like, man, that

785
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: would be great, fingers crossed that happens. What changes like,

786
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,959
Speaker 1: what can y'all do with a delisted grizzly that y'all

787
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: can't do now.

788
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 5: I want to hear from you guys too, But it

789
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 5: won't change, like, we will continue to do our jobs,

790
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 5: but it's important that we uphold our end of the

791
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 5: deal with how the Endangered Species Act works. So I

792
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 5: think that's why it's important, and I think it's important

793
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 5: for all the other species that are on the list

794
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 5: for that to continue to function properly.

795
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 3: Gotcha.

796
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I think it'd go a long way to

797
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 6: help build that tolerance back too. Some folks are just

798
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 6: you know, that have been dealing with a recovered population

799
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 6: for twenty years. Yeah, they're losing faith in the system. Jeremiah,

800
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 6: real quick, can you kind of speak to maybe what

801
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 6: a possible hunting season across the three states would look like,

802
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 6: because I know a ton of folks think that it's

803
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 6: just going to be open season potentially like black bears,

804
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 6: and within a year or two could hunt them back

805
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 6: down to you know, two hundred bears right. Well, I

806
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 6: mean I can't speak to you exactly how that'll look.

807
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 6: So a good example is the Montana is one of

808
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 6: the few states was asked to come up with hunting

809
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 6: regulations for grizzly bears. Okay, Okay, So we put together

810
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 6: a hunting regulation for grizzly bears, which really isn't much

811
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 6: different than our black bear hunting rags other than obviously

812
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 6: we don't have the numbers, and the population is shared

813
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 6: between Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming plus two National parks and

814
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 6: the Wind River Indian Reservation, right, and so the Montana

815
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 6: portion for hunting was literally designed inside the recovery zone

816
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 6: and what they call the demographic monitoring area. So imagine

817
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 6: there's Yellowstone, there's a cocentric circle outside of that, and

818
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 6: then there's another one outside of that. Inside of that

819
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 6: is where we count grizzly bears. Inside of that is

820
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 6: where mortalities count, births count, all of the count. So

821
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 6: everything you hear about the population of grizzly bears and

822
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,439
Speaker 6: the Yellowstone ecosystem is inside of that ring.

823
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 3: Gotcha.

824
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 4: It's not the rest of Montana, the rest of Wyoming,

825
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 4: or the rest of Idaho. It's literally there. So a

826
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 4: thousand bears may not seem like a lot of bears.

827
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 4: That's just inside of that ring. And that's an estimated population,

828
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 4: that's not we know exactly how many are in there

829
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 4: it's typically more than what we think. And so our

830
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 4: hunting program was basically designed as a draw tag, like

831
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 4: a limited and we have each one of these units,

832
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 4: we have mortality limits that we have to follow inside

833
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 4: of that ring, and so based on the population estimate,

834
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 4: based on the estimate, and so you know, let's say

835
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 4: the population estimate was eight hundred on twenty twenty four,

836
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 4: and from twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five, we

837
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,240
Speaker 4: have a mortality limit set that X number of bears

838
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 4: can die before it triggers something. So if that mortality

839
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 4: limit isn't met, there's a number in between that mortality

840
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 4: limit and where we got to. Those are the numbers

841
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 4: of bears that would actually potentially have and hunters would

842
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 4: have a chance to potentially hunt, and that number would

843
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 4: be split up between Wyoming, Idaho and southwest Montana. So

844
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 4: the reality is is that if that hunt took place,

845
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 4: you're talking one bear, maybe two or three in Montana

846
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 4: southwest inside the recovery zone in the DMA. Now outside

847
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 4: of that might be a different story. That's where our

848
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 4: commissions come into play and start talking about or do

849
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 4: we have areas that we're starting to see a higher

850
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 4: density grizzly bears that maybe isn't going to work in

851
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 4: an agricultural or a ranch setting or a subdivision setting,

852
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 4: things like that, right. I mean, there's a lot of

853
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 4: aspects to gay Man. So is the hunting season itself,

854
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 4: at least for the Montana portion that we can speak to,

855
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 4: would have been a very it's a very limited hunt

856
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 4: starting out, and it's a quota system most likely in

857
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 4: the early stages. But you know, Montana's arm rule essentially

858
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 4: says we were not going to hunt grizzlies after the delisting,

859
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 4: and that might change our current one says we won't

860
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 4: hunt for five years until, which is kind of a

861
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 4: monitoring period to kind of see how things go right.

862
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: So you wouldn't delist it, get a hunting season go

863
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: all right, general grizz tag everyone.

864
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 4: That's one of those common misunderstandings, Right. So even if

865
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 4: we decided to do that, even if the you know,

866
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 4: the state of Montana said we're gonna hunt grizzlies back

867
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 4: because it was a listed population, there's triggers set in place.

868
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 4: So if Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho decided we're gonna go

869
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 4: out and we're gonna shoot every grizzly bear and bring

870
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 4: it back down. When that number gets down to a

871
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 4: specific spot, let's say it's eight hundred or five hundred,

872
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 4: the triggers kick in and you're right back on the list.

873
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 4: So there's no reason why anyone state would want to

874
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 4: hunt grizzly bears back to the extinction. It just doesn't

875
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 4: make any sense. There's checks and valid and there's lots

876
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 4: of people that would argue that, and that's that's their opinion,

877
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 4: and it's perfectly fine with them if they want to

878
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 4: argue that way.

879
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 3: I totally understand that.

880
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 4: But again a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation out there

881
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 4: about what a hunt actually looks like in a state

882
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 4: of Montana, or Wyoming or Idaho for that matter. But

883
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 4: I can only speak to Montana's portion of the Yellowstone ecosystem.

884
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: This is why I find so much value in hearing

885
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 1: from folks like Jeremiah Kyle and Danielle. These folks are

886
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: out there every day conducting scientific actions, research and observations

887
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: and can give us thorough answers about what an actual

888
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: grizzly hunting season could look like. If that day ever comes,

889
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: I want to give Casey a chance to weigh on

890
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: the future of grizzlies as well.

891
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 2: Try to find the people who are asking questions and

892
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 2: are always trying to learn. They kind of ride the

893
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 2: fence in the middle there, and that's where I said

894
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 2: to you, man, and that's the one thing sitting here.

895
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 2: I might have thirty plus years of experience with grizzly bears,

896
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: but I'm learning every day. And as I go out

897
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,280
Speaker 2: there and learn, I just like to try to answer

898
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 2: those questions the best I can, and I'm wrong sometimes,

899
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 2: and that's that's just the truth of it. That's kind

900
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 2: of the wonderfulness about being around unpredictable animals in the

901
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 2: in the wild, where it's just kind of an unpredictable

902
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: place and it's always changing in the day and age.

903
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 2: I think the future of grizzly bears in North America

904
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 2: is going to be a positive thing. I think some

905
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 2: of those old fearful mindsets are kind of going away

906
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: a little bit. I think new the newer generations are.

907
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,479
Speaker 2: They're they're believing in science, they're leaning into those things,

908
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 2: and I see what's going to probably happen and what

909
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 2: I kind of hope is going to happen. You know, ultimately,

910
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 2: if the Endangered Species Act was successful and the pairs

911
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 2: recover and they get to a point where they are

912
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 2: an animal that can be hunted, then they could become

913
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 2: the value of them changes a little bit. I think

914
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 2: at some levels, what we want is that population to

915
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: get so big.

916
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 7: That that we can do that that it's a healthy population,

917
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 7: that the resources, financial resources are going to continue to

918
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 7: help the bear expand into places that they can live,

919
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 7: and that the population the bears are going to just

920
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 7: get healthier and healthier.

921
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 2: That would be the perfect world where everybody wins. Right,

922
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 2: you go out there and you still have grizzly bears

923
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 2: on the landscape. That's the goal. And I think they

924
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 2: were going that diriction. You know, but you knows everything.

925
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,399
Speaker 2: The pendulum swings so hard back and forth.

926
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 3: It's like a wrecking ball, man.

927
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 2: You know, you gain here and you lose here, and

928
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 2: you gain here and you lose here. But I think

929
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 2: that ultimately it seems like it's going that way, and

930
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: I hope that's where it goes.

931
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: So we have the desired outcomes from both Montana Fish

932
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: Wildlife and Parks as well as Casey Anderson. I wouldn't

933
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: say they're identical but they do share some strong similarities

934
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: lining up and delisting a regulated hunting season and wanting

935
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: a bright future for grizzlies by way of a healthy

936
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 1: population and minimal conflict with humans. So what do y'all

937
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: want for an out? What do you think or hope

938
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: the future of grizzly bears in the United States will be?

939
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: Have you come up with an answer for if we

940
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: need grizzly bears here? And why think about it? I

941
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 1: hope all of you enjoyed this episode of Backwoods University

942
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: as well as bear Grease in This Country Life. If

943
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: you liked this episode, share it with someone you know

944
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: that has strong opinions on grizzly bears, and be sure

945
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,959
Speaker 1: to stick around because if this podcast was a bear,

946
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 1: we haven't even come out of the den yet. There's

947
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: a whole lot more on the way.