WEBVTT - Weekend Law: Trump Tests LImits, FBI Agents Sue & Antitrust First 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:07.000 This is Bloomberg Law with June Grossel from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:12.319 The headline is that Musk has your data, that Musk 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:15.720 has control of the systems as a Treasury appointee. 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:17.400 That is unfathomable. 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:22.279 The extraordinary empowerment of Elon Musk by Donald Trump is 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:26.600 a headline that keeps repeating. Alarm bells rang after Musk 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.440 and his young deputies gained access to the Treasury Department's 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:34.680 computer network, where the private financial data of nearly every 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:40.040 American is stored. That means names, phone numbers, social security information, 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.960 and bank information. Many Democratic members of Congress, like Senator 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:49.840 Mark Warner of Virginia and Representative Ayanna Presley of Massachusetts, 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.920 joined protests this week in d c against the world's 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.320 richest man and his Department of Government efficiency. 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:04.600 You've got we don't know anything about, looking at potentially 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:09.319 all of our personal information, all of the money flows 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:13.480 that go out of Treasury. The Banking Committee needs to 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:17.960 bring up the dose folks who are illegally in Treasury 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:23.560 and have them testify. I am so tired of these 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.360 billionaire boys in their grubby. 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:31.400 Little hands, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessen told Bloomberg it was 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:32.880 a lot of misinformation. 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:37.479 There is no tinkering with the system. They are on 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:41.640 read only. They are looking. They can make no changes. 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.360 It is an operational program to suggest improvement. 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:50.320 Nevertheless, a DC federal judge placed temporary limits on Doze's 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:54.320 access after a group of unions sued. So far, the 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.920 courts have been the only restraint on the Trump administration, 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:03.200 with judges issuing a mere of court orders this week, delaying, limiting, 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:07.920 or outright blocking Trump's actions. My guest is an expert 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:11.639 in constitutional law, Harold Krent, a professor at the Chicago 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.760 Kent College of Law. How at this point does it 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:19.280 seem as if Trump is issuing these executive orders without 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:21.760 any consideration of their legality? 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:25.360 In my mind, he's acting with respects of the law, 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.160 sort of the way he is with respect to foreign policy, 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.760 and the way he did with business or which was 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:35.240 to start out dramatically asking for the moon, frightening everybody, 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:39.840 and then slowly chipping away at demands. And it's proved 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.760 effective in business to a large extent. I don't know 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.639 how effective it'll be with tariffs and other kinds of 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:50.160 international relations, and I think it'll be slightly effective with 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:52.200 respect to legal challenges as well. 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:56.520 Let's turn to musk sweeping moves to downsize the federal government. 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:01.000 He orchestrated a physical takeover of the US US Agency 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:05.000 for International Development, which he's trying to shudder. His people 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:08.840 are doing who knows what, not only a treasury, but 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.280 at the Department of Education, the Department of Labor, et cetera. 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:18.000 Trump did sign an executive order giving Musk's workers unfettered 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:22.120 access to government agencies. But as a professor once told me, 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:24.480 executive orders are just pieces of paper. 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:28.280 Yeah, in so many areas, there's a level of violations 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.840 of congressional enactments. Some are more egregious than others, some 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.840 are subtle. I mean, the role of Musk as a 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:37.960 special governmental employee at this time is one of those 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.760 gray areas, because there is a role for special governmental 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:43.840 employee that can assume powers for a limited period of time, 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.760 and so far obviously Musk has not exceeded that. But 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.880 in terms of what he's actually done, there appears to 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.000 be violation differences of the privacy actedturas are getting access 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:58.280 of all those Social Security numbers. That's a pretty good indication. 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.600 And of course the USAID was set up by Congress, 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:06.160 So a presidential order cannot dismantle an agency that's been 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:10.200 chartered by Congress. So I think there's a spectrum of action. 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:15.560 Some appear to be clearly unconstitutional, like the birthrate Citizenship Order. 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.800 Some are closer in question. There's another lawsuit that was 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:24.359 stiled gave against Chicago or its sanctuaries city policies. I 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.760 think it's a closer call in terms of where you 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.880 draw the line. So there's just a lot that's being 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:33.240 thrown up against the wall, but some have some merit, 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:34.960 and it's going to take a while for the courts 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.560 to unravel. That we haven't mentioned yet, the whole challenge 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:42.000 to the independent agencies, since he's fired a member of 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:45.160 the National Labor Relations Board, which is an independent agency 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:47.800 that I think has a chance of success ultimately a 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.400 Supreme Court, given what the Supreme Court has said previously. 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:55.039 But whether Trump then can take the next step and 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.640 try to get rid of civil service, I'm far more 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:58.560 dubious about that. 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.800 Also, it seems like there's absolutely no oversight. In a 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.599 sort of Friday night massacre, he fired the inspectors general 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.360 for at least seventeen agencies. 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:13.719 Well, Congress has a structure in place that allows for 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:18.960 dismissal of the spector generals, but Trump didn't follow it, 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.000 So in that sense, obviously the resort is to court. 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:22.560 Again. 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:25.120 We'll have to wait see things play out. But I 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:29.240 think what's really frightening is not just that the Doge 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.600 got the private information. The question is what do they 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:34.760 really want to do with it? Do they really want 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.720 to just make the government more efficient and make sure 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.880 payments aren't going to the wrong people. That's one thing. 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:43.760 It's another thing to have kind of a deep state 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.359 and have big Brother watching everything we do because we 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:51.080 all have personal identifiers, and that must people may be 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.560 sort of tacking on to these personal identifiers other kinds 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:58.920 of individual indications for statistics, which gives rise to kind 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:02.360 of Chinese type of big government watching all of us. 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.240 We're not there yet, but that is at least one step. 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:05.360 Of the way. 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.400 By the way, I do want to mention that one 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:13.560 of those two Musk employees at Treasury resigned on Thursday 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.680 after some of his social media posts were described as racist. 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:21.120 There's also a lot of controversy and a lawsuit over 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:26.280 what's been called buyout offers for some two million federal employees. 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:31.680 They're not really buyout offers. They're more like deferred resignation offers. 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:36.640 So dose emailed federal employees to resign and be paid 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:40.400 until the end of September or risk losing their jobs. 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:44.440 There are problems with this offer because a there's a 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.760 federal rule that administrative leave can only be used for 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:52.160 ten working days a year, and b the government hasn't 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.719 been funded past March fourteenth. 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.520 On this level, I think that's the action. Amisation is 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.800 probably legal, just like any other kind of buyouts. And yes, 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:05.040 there are issues about what happens if funding drives out 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:07.760 in terms of paying these settlements, and maybe they'll be 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.320 able to use some of the money from somewhere else 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:13.480 to pay the settlements going forward, if that part is 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:17.080 obviously unclear, that the idea in basic of saying to 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.440 a federal employee, you have a right under civil service 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:22.880 to continue your job, but we will give you an 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:25.240 incentive to leave early, and when some of them were 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:28.640 planning to leave anyway, I think that probably is closer 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.200 to the legal line in comparison to some of the 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:33.600 other moves the administration has been making. I mean, maybe 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.280 there are some procedural issues that I'm not aware of 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.080 that the SPORT will look to to try to stop 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:43.320 the buyout, you know, questions of again, can you bind 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:47.560 the federal government to make these payments when there is 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.520 not continuing funding? You know, I think that lots of 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:54.320 issues are contingent upon continual funding by the government and 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:57.360 not hitting the debt fealing, et cetera. But again, in 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:00.400 comparison to the other moves that we've been seeing in 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:04.760 terms of discharge of general, the discharge of the pediven LRB, 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:08.360 that's dismantling of AID, I think this is far less 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.120 concerning than some of the other moves the Trump administration 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:11.560 is making. 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.360 We should find out more about this on Monday, because 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:20.480 a Massachusetts judge has temporarily paused the buyout offer until 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:23.440 a hearing on Monday. The court seemed to be the 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:27.440 only impediment to Trump's executive orders, some of which are 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:32.200 clearly beyond his presidential power, like the funding freeze and 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:37.000 the ending of birthright citizenship. This week, two federal judges, 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:41.280 one in Seattle and one in Maryland, block Trump's birthright 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:46.760 citizenship order, and Seattle judge John Kunauer accused Trump of 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:48.599 trying to change the constitution. 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:53.280 There are moments in the world's history when people look 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.840 back and ask where were the lawyers? Where were the judges? 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.520 In these moments, the rule of law becomes a specially 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:04.600 vulnerable I refuse to let that be can go dark today. 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:07.800 Yeah, and the big picture is are the guard RILs 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.120 going to come from nowhere? Or are they going to 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:13.840 come from the court or from Congress? Ultimately, and members 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.520 of the Republican Congress idly going to say, you know, 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:20.360 we were elected to do an independent job, and the 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.400 president has taken away our legislative authority. We don't know 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:25.520 where the guardils are going to come, and we just 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.600 have to hope that one of those two branches will 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:31.320 be able to step up and limit some of the 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.000 cruiter moves that the administration is already taken. 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:39.200 Speaking of courts, let's talk about the Supreme Court. On 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.240 the last day of the last term, the court issued 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:49.440 that controversial decision giving presidents immunity from prosecution for official acts. 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:54.080 A lot of the conservative Supreme Court justices also ascribed 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:58.199 to the unitary executive theory, under which the president has 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:02.319 sole authority over the executsative branch, and then of course, 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:05.560 the Court has been sort of taking a sledgehammer to 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.640 agency power. So what do you think will the Supreme 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.760 Court be supportive of Trump? They were not in his 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.880 last term, but they were this last year. 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.360 Absolutely. I mean, I think that community decision is a 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.319 one off. It's a terrible decision for what the Court 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.800 will do in the future. But the Court has adopted, 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:26.679 as you mentioned, the form of the unitary executive Authority, 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.520 which means the president should be able to fire any 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.600 policy maker at will in order to make sure that 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.480 all actions that are final of the government can be 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.560 traced to the president. So I would not be surprised 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.720 if the Court is sympathetic with respect to giving the 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:46.360 power to the president to fire agency head officials, including 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.920 most fighting We need the head of the FED, because 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:53.480 that's just another type of policy that's being administered by 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:57.360 right now, an independent agency head. But I don't think 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.480 that even if the Supreme Court takes that step, they 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:05.120 will expand the unitary to say that the civil service 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:09.319 is an unconstitutional Many unions right now public employee beings 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:14.160 are very concerned that the next objective of the Trump 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.720 administration will put the civil service in the cross hears, 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:21.920 and I think the court will be sympathetic to the 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:23.400 principles under civil service. 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.560 Of course, Trump is going to keep appealing to the 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:30.480 Supreme Court. That's been his pattern. But it'll be interesting 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:34.559 to see how many of these cases the justices actually 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:38.120 decide to take. Thanks so much. How that's Professor Harold 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.600 Krent of the Chicago Kent College of Law coming up 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:45.160 next on the Bloomberg Law Show. Why FBI agents are 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:49.000 suing the Justice Department. I'm June Grosso and you're listening 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:55.560 to Bloomberg time and time again. Donald Trump has promised 0:11:55.559 --> 0:12:00.240 to exact revenge against those involved in the cases against him. 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:06.040 Look, when this election is over, based on what they've done, 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.760 I would have every right to go after them. And 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:14.400 it's easy and sometimes revenge can be justified, though, I 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:16.360 have to be honest, you know, sometimes it can. 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:20.640 And the President seems to be keeping those promises with 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:24.560 purges at the FBI and Justice Department, where dozens of 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:28.400 senior career officials have been pushed out and thousands more 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.920 FBI agents may follow them out the door. Because the 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.760 Justice Department has had a list compiled of all bureau 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:40.680 employees who worked on the criminal investigations into Trump or 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:45.680 the January sixth riots, to quote determine whether any additional 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:50.920 personnel actions are necessary. So two groups of FBI agents 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.800 went to federal court to prevent the government from disclosing 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:57.720 the names on that list, fearing it could lead to 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:02.439 retaliation against them. After all, January sixth rioters who were 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:07.160 pardoned by Trump have already taken to social media, identifying 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:12.520 prosecutors and agents who worked on their cases and making threats. 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:16.760 But I will tell you now, it's our church. 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:20.840 One of the lawsuits cites these comments by Enrique Tario, 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:24.160 the former leader of the Proud Boys, who was serving 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.079 a twenty two year sentence before his pardon. 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.360 The people who did this, they need to feel the heat. 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:32.480 They need to be put behind bars. 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.760 At a hearing before DC Federal Judge Giacab on Friday, 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.520 the US government agreed not to make that list of 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:46.120 FBI employees public, either directly or indirectly, until the judge 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:50.480 rules on the merits of the lawsuits, so a temporary solution. 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.720 My guest is national security law expert Brad Moss, a 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:58.600 partner at Mark Zaid. He represents the seven FBI agents 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:02.520 and the FBI Agents Association in their lawsuit against the 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:06.360 Justice Department, rad tell us what's been happening at the FBI. 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:10.240 So what's been transpiring at the moment with the FBI 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.959 and the Justice Department is that a set of instructions 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:16.000 came down from the White House pretty much starting from 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:21.160 day one, to identify everyone involved and associated with the 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:26.320 prosecutions and investigations not only into Donald Trump, but also 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.680 everyone who was prosecuted for the January sixth riots and 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:35.560 the seditious attempts. The set of prosecutors from the January 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.320 six cases that specifically were on Jack Smith's team that 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:42.320 went after Donald Trump. Those individuals apparently were already fired 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.520 without cause, which is something that will likely be subject 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:49.000 to litigation. But the more immediate and more widespread concern 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.160 is that the Just Department ordered the FBI to compile 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:58.160 a list identify everyone within the FBI. Special Agents Technical 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:03.120 Assistance supports that Fredericks xameters everything to pile list and 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:07.040 send it to the Justice Department to identify everyone involved 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:12.280 in any of the January sixth investigations and prosecutions. With 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:14.600 the obvious concern being not only this, it is going 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:17.200 to be shared with the Just Department, but also with 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:20.080 the White House, and that these names will be made public. 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.600 The lawsuits that were filed, there's two different lawsuits, one 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.480 of which I'm a list of attorney on are designed 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:31.640 to keep those names of those FBI personnel private and anonymous, 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:35.200 just like it's always done for government officials who are 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:38.120 not otherwise public facing individuals. 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:41.600 And the FBI has already turned over to the Justice 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:47.520 Department that list of some five thousand FBI employees who 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:52.120 worked on the criminal investigations into Trump or January sixth. 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.840 This remains the concern is what is the purpose of this, 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.120 where are they going with this, and what is the 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.120 White House plan to do with this information, because remember 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.520 one of the first things Donald Trump did was pardon 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:08.120 everyone convicted further actions tied to January sixth, including the 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:12.080 Proud Boys, including the Healthkeepers, all these violent militants who 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.920 had gone in with a plan to take down the 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:18.600 government to install Donald Trump after he lost in twenty twenty. 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.800 Those individuals are now publicly threatening the FBI officials who 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.120 went after them and who investigated them as part of 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:29.200 those prosecutions, and there's a real threat to those FBI officials' 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.360 lives and their safety to see their family members if 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:34.080 their names get released in. 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:38.280 Your lawsuit, are you concerned about dismissals or are you 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:40.760 only concerned about retaliation? 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.600 Right now, this is strictly about keeping the anonymity of 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:48.960 the names of these various officials because no other action 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:53.560 has been taken to actually fire these personnel. We're not 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.520 there yet on bringing a challenge to it. It's premature. 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.640 If DOJ does go through that, if there is a 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:06.320 mass purge of personnel, our lawsuit could obviously be amended 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.200 and updated to address that as well. 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.359 Let's talk about the grounds for your suit. Are you 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.760 suing under the First Amendment and the Federal Privacy Act? 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:15.119 So? 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:19.320 Yeah, the First and Fifth Amendment constitutional protections due process 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:24.560 for these individuals, particularly the stigma of being defamed essentially 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.840 an accused of miscarriage of justice by the White House 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:31.359 if their names are publicly released. First Amendment retaliation in 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.240 the sense that this is all about the fact that 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:37.119 they are not politically aligned and ideologically aligned with the 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.560 White House, which for civil servants is not something they're 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.320 supposed to be doing. They're not supposed to be political. 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:45.639 But also the Privacy Act, which puts strict limits on 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:50.439 what agencies can do with the personal identifying information of 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:54.920 personnel and where it can and cannot be disseminated absent 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.720 employee consent, which, to be clear, these personnel are not 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.760 giving their consent for this personal identifying information to be 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:06.000 disseminated outside of the FBI, let alone to the public. 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.240 I'm curious about whether a lot of people from the 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.480 FBI have approached you with their concerns about this. 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.280 So we've been approached by a myriad an untold number 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.960 of personnel across the FBI, not just in DC, but 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:23.200 across the country who we are representing as a part 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:26.239 of this collective group. There is a select number of 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.760 individuals who have agreed to be the plaintiffs in this action. 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:33.399 We're keeping their identities protected at the moment that the 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:36.720 court agreed to allow them to proceed as John Doe's 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.560 and Jane does for now. We're also working to make 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:43.439 sure to try to keep their identities secret from the 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:48.120 government itself, sadly to try to prevent and avoid retaliation 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.119 for having engaged in this section. But also the Agent 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:55.760 Association is also a listed plaintiff, which represents agents across 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.880 the country and has an obvious organizational interest in protecting 0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:04.920 it's personnel from this political retribution. We want this addressed immediately. 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:09.360 We cannot wait with the way this administration is moving 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.440 and just this reckless, you know, move fast and break 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:16.680 things attitude that Elon Musk and Donald Trump have. Time 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.119 is of the essence, and every day that passes is 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:22.120 another day that these names could be disseminated to the public. 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:26.399 So everything is about moving quickly right now to halt 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:30.560 any dissemination until these legal issues can be resolved through 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:31.320 standard briefing. 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:35.120 There have been accusations from former Trump officials that FBI 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:40.280 agents went beyond their authority when they executed the search 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.600 warrants at Mara Lago. Was there any litigation or court 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:45.840 decisions about those accusations. 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:50.800 There is no merit to that. Every challenge regarding the 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:54.080 lawfulness of the effidavits, the lawfulness of the searches do 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:58.000 not even fly in motions before Judge Cannon. There has 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:02.679 been zero valid claim that these officials went beyond the 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:07.320 scope of their authority or otherwise violated Donald Trump's Fourth 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:11.359 Amendment rights with respect to his actual property that was 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:16.000 at mar Lago. This is political hatchet jobs, smearing by 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:20.400 individuals trying to color it as being an issue of misconduct. 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:24.320 If they had actual, verified claims of misconduct against any 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:26.680 of these officials, they could bring it through the normal 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:30.320 administrative process. They don't want to do that because they 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:32.840 know those claims won't hold up to scrutiny. 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:36.520 And so big picture, what you're saying is these are 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.960 FBI agents who were doing their jobs, who were doing 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:41.560 what they were assigned to do. 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:44.480 Correct and not just I don't ever want to go 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:46.960 with thee We're just doing our jobs lined because that 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:49.960 harkens back to World War Two. These were people following 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:55.240 lawful orders to investigate potential crime in the sense of 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.960 the attack on the capital of January sixth, as well 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:03.360 as the unauthorized retention of classified documents at Mara a Lago. 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:07.240 Those are existing crimes. There was a standard investigation. The 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:11.359 only quote unquote misconduct they did was they dared to 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.159 be part of an investigation into Donald Trump. And the 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.359 point that this White House is trying to push is 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.400 that people like Donald Trump and his friends and allies 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:24.280 are above the law and can never be investigated. 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.520 There have been many controversies in the history of the FBI, 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.680 But have you ever heard of anything like this with 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:35.160 possible retaliation against thousands of agents. 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:39.200 This makes you think of, you know, the Hoover days 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:45.919 in terms of the idea of such blanket politicization of 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:50.000 the just Department of the FBI. We moved beyond that 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.800 after Hoover for a reason. The civil service that its 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:59.120 protections exist for a reason. We're trying to move beyond 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:01.760 the flaws and the states of the part of our 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:04.399 past in this country, not just in the FBI, but 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:07.760 in the political system itself. To allow Donald Trump to 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.520 do what he's trying to do would cripple the existing 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:14.560 system and bring us back to the days of Tammany 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:19.240 hall and blanket abuses of power. We cannot go back 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:21.760 to that. That is why these losses are beinging brought. 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:24.639 That is why lawyers like us are standing up to 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:26.160 protect these individuals. 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:30.120 During her confirmation hearings, Pambondi, who's now the Attorney General, 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:35.680 assured senators that she wouldn't retaliate against Justice Departments staff 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:40.639 simply because they'd been assigned to cases involving Trump, and 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:44.119 that the weaponization of the Justice Department was over. 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:48.360 I will not politicize that office. I will not target 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:51.680 people simply because of their political affiliation. 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:57.000 Finally, during her confirmation hearing, Pambondy, who's now the Attorney General, 0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:01.320 assured senators that she wouldn't retaliate against Else's department staff 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:04.760 simply because they've been assigned to cases involving Trump. 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:08.680 I will not politicize that office. I will not target 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:12.000 people simply because of their political affiliation. 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:17.520 Trump's pick for FBI Director, Cash Patel, also testified that 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:21.280 he wouldn't seek retribution against the President's adversaries. 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:24.360 The only thing that will matter if I'm confirmed as 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:28.480 a director of the FBI is a de weaponized, depoliticized 0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:33.040 system of law enforcement, completely devoted to rigorous obedience of 0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:33.800 the Constitution. 0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:37.919 Do their statements give you any reassurance that retribution at 0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:40.160 the Justice Department will be stopped? 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:47.439 None? Those promises, those reassurances mean nothing more than the 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:53.080 reassurances given by certain Supreme Court nominees about the sanctity 0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:58.000 of Roe v. Wade. Their politicized you know, cover your 0:23:58.200 --> 0:24:02.119 your end statements that were made to get appointed, to 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:07.280 get confirmed, that they will happily circumvent and throw out 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:10.840 the window once they're in power, knowing that there's no 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:14.240 one who's going to do anything to stop them, certainly 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:17.720 not the existing majority in the House or Senate. They 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:20.959 have no interest in going after these officials if they 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:23.920 end up doing what they promised they would not do. 0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:26.679 And those officials like Pam Bonding know that. 0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:29.520 Thanks so much for being on the show, Brad. That's 0:24:29.560 --> 0:24:33.320 Brad Moss of Mark Zaid. Coming up next. The Trump 0:24:33.359 --> 0:24:37.320 administration's first anti trust suit. I'm June Gross. When you're 0:24:37.359 --> 0:24:40.720