1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: Welcome back to It Could Happen Here, the podcast about 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 1: things falling apart and sometimes how we can put things 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: back together. I'm Garrison Davis, aspiring Rebus, and this is 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: part two of my little two part series talking about 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: trans hormone replacement therapy. Last episode, we discussed what HRT is, 6 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: it's various benefits as gender affirming treatment, and the informed 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: consent model of receiving hormones. Before we continue on with 8 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: my discussion with Dr Grieve, I would like to talk 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: a bit more about informed consent. So the informed consent 10 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: option can be great for many many people as it 11 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: attempts to bypass some of the red tape around receiving 12 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: gender reforming healthcare. For its form of consent, all you 13 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: gotta do is set up an appointment, signed the forms, 14 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: maybe get some blood work done, and then pick up 15 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: your hormones. Right. You don't need to live as trans 16 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: for like two years or have letters from therapyest s. 17 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,319 Speaker 1: It's it is. It is just up to you, so 18 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: it is it is really convenient if you can get 19 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: that option. Some places even let you do it via 20 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,639 Speaker 1: telemedicine appointments, so you can just sit at home holding 21 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: your little, I kea shark and then get your hormones, 22 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: which does sound very very nice. Planned Parenthood offers informed 23 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: consent trans health care in many states, and in the 24 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: show notes I will link a Google map of the 25 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: informed consent clinics from across the country. Depending on your insurance, 26 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: you can get hormones for a little to no extra cost. 27 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: This way it can be really convenient. The biggest asterisk 28 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: for informed consent is that since it's based on you know, 29 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: informed consent, it often is just for humans age eighteen 30 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: and older, or sometimes teens a few years younger, but 31 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: only if their parents or guardians signed the forms. Obviously, 32 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: this is not ideal for a sixteen year old with 33 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: transphobic parents, who would really be helped by receiving like 34 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: hormone blockers or something right. Another potential drawback is that 35 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: the clinics can sometimes have quite the wait list. I 36 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: started off with the informed consent model because it was 37 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: the easiest, but by the time I needed more blood 38 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: work done and my prescription refilled, setting up more appointments 39 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: that Planned Parenthood became kind of a nightmare. I was 40 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: continuously having appointments being canceled on me last minute. And 41 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: just getting pushed back months and months into the future. Eventually, 42 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: I just resorted to getting hormones through my regular doctor 43 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: instead of just continuing on with informed consent. Now, this 44 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: is obviously a regional issue, right I. I don't know 45 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: what it's like in Florida, for example, but the COVID 46 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: andeen pandemic has stressed a lot of the medical infrastructure 47 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: here in the States, and scheduling some appointments in these 48 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: clinics can be still quite challenging. And as you know, 49 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: a big theme of this show is that maybe we 50 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: shouldn't assume the structures that hold up our society are concrete, 51 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: permanent fixtures. The term the crumbles that we used to 52 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: describe the slow deterioration of the systems that we rely on, 53 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: was initially coined in reference to our medical system by 54 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 1: a friend of the show who works in the medical field. 55 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: Listen to the first five episodes of The Daily Show 56 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: talking about climate change for more on that. But a 57 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: part of the Criminal's idea is trying to learn how 58 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: to become less reliant on the systems that we take 59 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: for granted, right, trying to solve for the fallacy of 60 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: misplaced concreteness before it's too late. On that note, back 61 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: to my discussion with Dr Victoria Luna Brendan Grieve, Assistant 62 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: professor at the University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy. For 63 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: places that are getting uh, you know, all of these 64 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: anti trends bills criminalizing all of this stuff for miners, 65 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: and then you know, eventually maybe even you know, my 66 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,839 Speaker 1: big fear is that, you know, first off, they're gonna 67 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: criminalize it for minors, and they're gonna say the brains 68 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: not fully developed, your twenty five, and they're gonna criminalize 69 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: it until you're twenty five, and they're just gonna criminalize 70 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: it for everyone after that. Um So, for all of 71 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: these places that are making access to healthcare is so 72 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: much harder, what what is what is one to do? 73 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 1: Like if these if there's these kids and then even 74 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: adults who are like just find it so much harder 75 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: to get stuff. Like I know there's the informed clinics, 76 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: but there there's like there's like a few in Texas, 77 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: but I don't even know what they can even offer anymore, right, 78 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: Like it's really unclear. Yeah, well, I'll tell you some 79 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: of that fear is already becoming reality here in Pennsylvania 80 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: just two days ago. HB. I think it was HBO 81 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: passed by the House in don in Harrisburg that prevents 82 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: it's a ban on trans people playing sports up through 83 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 1: the college level, not just high school in grade school, 84 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: it's all the way up through you know, secondary education. Uh. 85 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: And even though our governors like has failed to vito it, 86 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 1: like who even knows what's going to happen, but they're 87 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: already taking taking aim at this higher level kind of thing. 88 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of president for that. What my goodness. 89 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: If there's a long and storied history of d I 90 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: Y hormone therapy and it's easier for the trans feminine 91 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: individuals because testosterone is actually a scheduled to control I 92 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: think it might be a three I think it's scheduled 93 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: three steroid. I'll write a little thing about it and 94 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: I'll say in the episode. And it's such a funny 95 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: reason too, because it's just you can use it to 96 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: dope for endurance based like like cycling and running, because 97 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: it will increase your red blood cell account that's a like. 98 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: And so it's a controlled substance because people can use 99 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: it to dope for for exit, for for sports. So 100 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: it's that's a little bit harder to get ahold of 101 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: in like a meaningful way. But there are a lot 102 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: of different Allegedly, there are a lot of different places 103 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,799 Speaker 1: online that you can acquire estrogen or estra dial relatively easily. 104 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna actually pause the discussion with me and 105 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: Dr Grieve to talk a little bit about d I 106 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,799 Speaker 1: y h r T or for those anti acronym people 107 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: out there, do it yourself hormone replacement therapy. Again, I'm 108 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: not a medical doctor. Unless you have a problem regarding parapsychology, 109 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: I cannot offer you any expertise, but I can talk 110 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: about d I y h r T as it's existed 111 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: for trans people for the past two decades. Because an 112 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: unfortunate truth is, although it's gotten much easier to get 113 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: gender affirm and care and hormones the past few years, 114 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: even in states that aren't facing this wave of anti 115 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: trans health care bills, the medical establishment hasn't been the 116 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: most trans friendly place in general. A recent Center for 117 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,119 Speaker 1: American Progress report found that nearly half of transgender people 118 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: and six of transgender people of color reported having experienced 119 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: mistreatment at the hands of a medical provider, including refusal 120 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: of care and verbal or physical abuse just in the 121 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: year before the survey, which took place in June of 122 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: twenty so this is this is still very much an 123 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: ongoing issue. One in two trans people reported that their 124 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: access to gender affirming healthcare was curtailed significantly during the pandemic, 125 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: and nearly one in two transgender adults have had insurance 126 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: providers denying them coverage for gender affirming care, and very 127 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: often doctors don't even know how to properly treat transgender patients, 128 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: and often it's up to the patients to educate the 129 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: doctors on trans healthcare issues. The Center for American Progress 130 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: survey from last year found that one in three trans 131 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,239 Speaker 1: people report having to teach their doctors about trans people 132 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: to get them appropriate care, and reported having been asked 133 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: innovasive or unnecessary questions about being trans which were not 134 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: related to the reasons for them visiting the doctor. The 135 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: report cited a twenty eight team brief from the Kaiser 136 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: Family Foundation that found that more than half of medical 137 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: school curriculums lack information about unique health issues the LGBTQ 138 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: community faces, and doesn't cover treatment beyond HIV prevention and care, 139 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: so obviously that leaves a lot to be desired for 140 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: people wanting to receive transgender health care. Between medical mistreatment, 141 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: insurance complications, and doctor ignorance, many trans folks have taken 142 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: it upon themselves to get the drug necessary for hormone 143 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: replacement therapy because the alternative is often just having to 144 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: face not being able to receive the health care that, 145 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: in many cases makes it possible to live. The Center 146 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: for American Progress survey found that twenty eight percent of 147 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: trans folks report having postponed or not gotten necessary medical 148 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: care for fear of discrimination. Taking your endochronology and hormone 149 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: treatment into your own hands has a lengthy history and 150 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: used to be much more common in the days before 151 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: informed consent. In a survey of trans people in Washington, 152 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: d C. Circus two thousand, over half of the respondents 153 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: so that they had used non prescribed hormones also known 154 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: as d I y h RT. So information on how 155 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: to go about d I yng your HRT spread via 156 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: online forms and websites in the early two thousands, and 157 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: after some trial and error, the information is kind of 158 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: consolidated into a few main information hubs that being the 159 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: d I y h r T Wiki, HRT dot Cafe 160 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: and d I y HRT dot get hub dot io. Now, obviously, 161 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: when you're getting into taking drugs from online sources, you 162 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: need to be extremely careful and cautious about what foreign 163 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: chemicals you're putting into your body, including and trying to 164 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: only acquire drugs from trustworthy sources, doing drug testing if 165 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: you can, and doing your own blood testing before and 166 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: after to keep an eye on your testosterone and estrogen levels. 167 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: It is possible to order blood tests via online and 168 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: send it through a lab that you have to ship 169 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: your blood too, but often it's just easier to do 170 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: it by going through the medical system. Now, one massive 171 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: caveat with d y h r T is although it's 172 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: more straightforward to acquire extra dial and antiandrogen's like spiro 173 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: from online sources, getting to stosterone for masculinization therapy is 174 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: much more tricky because in most places it's a restricted drug. 175 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: Here in the States, it is a Schedule three substance, 176 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: so technically buying it without a prescription would be a 177 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: felony um So for this reason, most d I O 178 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: y h r T stuff focuses on feminizing hormones since 179 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: that is less legally complicated. Now, obviously you know steroids exist, 180 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: so it is possible to get them, but I will 181 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: not be giving out guides on how to do that 182 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: here on the pod, but you know you can you 183 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: can look into it if you so desire for feminizing hormones. 184 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: The main way of going about it requires obtaining bioidentical 185 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: extra dial. It can come in a few forms pills, 186 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: which are not difficult to acquire, and assuming you get 187 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: the dose right, it's pretty easy because it's just a 188 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: process of dissolving the little pill tablets under your tongue, 189 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: and that's kind of it right. Dosed is its own thing, 190 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: which you can figure out if you do reading, but 191 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 1: the actual taking of it is pretty straightforward. Transdermal estrogen 192 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: or transdermal estra dial is kind of the new hot thing. Uh. 193 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: Usually this has you taking weekly estra dial patches which 194 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: you just switch out every week um or you can 195 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: also do daily gels, which you just rub out your body, 196 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: although unfortunately for dosing gels it can be more tricky 197 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: if you go d I Y because it's hard to 198 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: know what concentration just the jela is. If you're just 199 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: rubbing a sav on yourself. It's not already prepackaged, but 200 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: the patches are pretty good. And lastly, the classic method 201 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: is injectable estradial at various concentrations in the form of 202 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: some oil solution. This can usually be the cheapest option 203 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: if you can figure out how to buy estradial, and 204 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: needles and syringes can be bought at any pharmacy just 205 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: over the counter in most countries without a prescription. For 206 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: feminizing hormones, some people also take antiandrogen's a k a. 207 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: Testosterone lockers like spiral lactone, which can be acquired online 208 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: and are almost always taken orally in the form of 209 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: a pill. Now, when getting these drugs online, there are 210 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: two main categories of purchase. There's pharmaceutical grade and home brewed. 211 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: Pharmaceutical grade refers to HRT produced by legitimate pharmaceutical companies 212 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: that are licensed and subject to regulation. They should be 213 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: of the same quality as those found in your local pharmacy, 214 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: and they can be ordered without a prescription from websites 215 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: based in countries that allow for the legal exportation of 216 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: certain medications. These will almost always carry less inherent risk 217 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: versus receiving and taking home brewed hormones, which leads us 218 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: to the second version that you can buy, which is homebrewed. 219 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: This refers to HRT produced by individuals by sourcing raw 220 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: extradial or whatever other chemicals you're taking in the form 221 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: of a powder and then compounding the medication themselves. They 222 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: do not synthesize or current from scratch these hormones, but 223 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: they do use the powdered vers of them, and they 224 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: get them from sources from drug manufacturing companies to synthesize 225 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: it into their own extra dial or whatever arther drug 226 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: you're taking. You know, in the antiandrogen list. There's there's 227 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: too many, too many to name now. While this this 228 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: concept does sound scary and it can obviously go wrong 229 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: if someone's not synthesizing it correctly. Uh, there are a 230 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: couple of well respected members of the community that have 231 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: been known to produce high quality and safe HRT medications. 232 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,719 Speaker 1: But before anyone decides to take drugs that you get 233 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: on the internet, please, please, please please do lots of 234 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: reading beforehand on on dosage effects, side effects, and be 235 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: very cautious with your drug sourcing. Right, you should know 236 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: who you're buying it from. You don't want to just 237 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: buy from whatever it's get your website. You should make 238 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: sure that what you're doing is other people are backing 239 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: up on this decision and make sure that it's there. 240 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: You can cross reference information here because there's a lot 241 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: of information out their online and not all of it 242 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: is good information, obviously, but really try to cross reference 243 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: information on any drug sources, on hormone dosage, on any 244 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: possible drug interactions. If you're taking multiple drugs or you 245 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: already have prescriptions now I should I should note that 246 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: supply chain issues that affect the medical system can even 247 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: extend out to d Y A h r T. There's 248 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: no true escape. There's no true other. One of the 249 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: main pharmaceutical grade online sites to source HRT from is 250 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: currently out of estradial pills, so there there is there 251 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: is no true escape sometimes, but to learn more about 252 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: d I Y h RT, you should check out d 253 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: I Y HRT dot get hub, dot io or HRT 254 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: dot cafe and the d I Y trans dot wiki 255 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: and keep in mind not everything you read on those 256 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: sources is necessarily good advice or up to date with 257 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: the current information on how these drugs work. Recently, I 258 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: was reading a guide I found via one of those 259 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: sites on how to homebrew my own estrogen by buying 260 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: the powdered version of it than synthesizing it myself to 261 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: level up my alchemy stat um, and I found the 262 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: guy that I was reading contained quite a bit of 263 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: outdated misinformation about progester around. So don't take everything you 264 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: read as gospel, but those resources are at least a 265 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: good place to start. Anyway, Now back to the interview, 266 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: the problem that you might run into with the I 267 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: y NG is you might not be able to get 268 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: the bioequivalent estradial in some form. You might have to 269 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: settle for conjugated estrogens or even something like an ethanol ESTRADIALE, 270 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: which is like hormonal birth control, which because they are synthetics, 271 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: they actually have a much rougher time on your body. 272 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: And that's where a lot of the side effects quote 273 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: unquote like come from. Like all of the worry about 274 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: like blood clots and things from taking estrogens comes from 275 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: conjugated estrogens. Est Yeah, the actual study, uh that a 276 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: lot of that is citing goes all the way back 277 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: and it was studying the rate of plotting in cis 278 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: gender women taking hormonal birth control, and it's just like, Okay, 279 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: so this is the wrong population with the wrong medication. Yeah, 280 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: that seems like not a great scientific study, right, what 281 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: do we do? I mean, it might be great to 282 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: talk about for the rate of yeah, right for trans women, 283 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: or doesn't really right? It doesn't it doesn't really help 284 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: so much. Um. And what I think is also pretty 285 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: wild too. I mentioned the progesteran thing earlier. A lot 286 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: of that controversy comes from the fact that the original 287 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: studies on whether or not it could be beneficial. We're 288 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: done with medroxy progesterone, a synthetic progesterone that has a 289 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: really nasty side effect profile in a lot of different ways. 290 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: And now that we have micronized progesterone, where the evidence 291 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: suggested not only is it safe, it actually makes estrogen safer. 292 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: And now they're like, no, we can't give that. That's 293 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: just that's just crazy talk. I will say, I have 294 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: heard from people with more experienced hormones and be that 295 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: progesterone does make you way too hoardy. Um. The heads 296 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: up for for side effects ASHTAG can confirm. But um, well, 297 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: but but progesterone can have a lot of other really 298 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: beneficial side effects. It can really increase the fat deposition 299 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: to various places. It can help with your mood, it 300 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 1: can help with your sleep. It actually reduced the period 301 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: symptoms that I was having because I because there's a surprise, 302 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: people on estrogen can also have periods. Uh. And because 303 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: your body again knows what it's doing, it's going to 304 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: modulate it through the E one, E two, E three pathway, 305 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,479 Speaker 1: like throughout the month in a sixical fashion, and you 306 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: can get bloating and cramps. And I had really bad 307 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: morning sickness like for for three days every twenty eight 308 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: days for months, until eventually I started micronized progesterone and 309 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: those symptoms alleviated, Which makes a kind of sense if 310 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: you know that progesterone only birth control reduces periods. So 311 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: like there's a there's there's a lot of precedent, a 312 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: lot of makes a out of like sense that it 313 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: would work. God, I it's I need to tell you 314 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: have have you ever heard of the Powers method of 315 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: no Oh Garrison. I am so excited to introduce you 316 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: to this person. Like doctor Powers is a fascinating grifter 317 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: in the trans health care space because He is a 318 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,719 Speaker 1: he's a physician who like has has made it his 319 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: duty to to to make sure that trans people, especially 320 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: trans women. He actually doesn't like really have anything to 321 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: say about trans men because the the therapy is so 322 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: like easy to to to do that. He has a 323 00:18:53,920 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: wild postulation as to like better ways to give hormone, 324 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: and he he has things worths like we don't need antiandrogens. 325 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,959 Speaker 1: You just give really high levels of injectable estrogen, which, like, 326 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: I mean that'll probably work because for some people, but yeah, yeah, 327 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: but but also estrogen is like really safe and so 328 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: like you can give it to an unbelievably high level, 329 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: it's not really going to speed things up exactly, Like 330 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: it will maybe a little bit, but not that much. 331 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: And any of the side effects you might experience, which 332 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: could also come from the the excipients, the non active 333 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: elements of it, like you can be allergic to those 334 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: if you ever really high dose can be a real problem. Um. 335 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: But the big thing for him is he pushes that 336 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: micronized progesterone is not only necessary and good especially for 337 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: breast size, you should also stick the oral capsules in 338 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: your butt. Oh I were we are we are officially 339 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: boothing estrogen. Now, yes, yes, okay, well I'm I'm switching 340 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: back to pills. This sounds very exciting. Well so well, 341 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: oh my gosh. So the idea is his line is 342 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: um that you know that the oral capsules you only 343 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: get a tiny fraction of the total progesterone, and you 344 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: get a lot more if you stick it up You 345 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: get the whole dose if you stick it up your butt, which, 346 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: like if you know literally anything about pharmacology is both 347 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 1: right and entirely insane because anything that you take orally, 348 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: there's a bioavailable like level of it. Like so oral uh, 349 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: micronized progesterone has a bioequivalence of I think like two 350 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: or three percent, which is why when you take like 351 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: a hundred milligram capsule, you get like a certain blood level. 352 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 1: If you take it rectally, it's like a twelve. It's 353 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 1: still not the whole thing, which is why the the 354 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: micronized progesterone rectal suppositories are twenty five milligrams to give 355 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: you the same exposure, so it's four times the systemic absorption, 356 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: which means that if you are boofing a micronized progesterone capsule, 357 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: you are geting three to four times the dose that 358 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: you should be getting. And uh, the I pulled because 359 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: I get into fights with people all the time about this. 360 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: I pulled the original FDA filing for Mike and Ice progesterone, 361 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 1: and they suggested that three hundred milligrams is basically getting 362 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: to what like a cis gender person's maximum progesterone levels 363 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 1: would be, meaning that if you're boofing one or two, 364 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 1: as some of his regimens suggests, like, you might be 365 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: essentially overdosing on progesterone for no reason, like there's no 366 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: real reason to do that, and it is just crazy. 367 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: When what I started this call today, I did. I 368 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: did not think we would get boofing progesterone. It is 369 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: a weird, like a weirdly large part of my Twitter 370 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: interactions have been fighting people to stop boofing progesterone. UM, 371 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: so I wanted to Unfortunately just exposed this idea to 372 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: millions of more people. Know I'm saying talk do it 373 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: well and so, but you know, you know, you know 374 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: that's not how that works. I do know that's not 375 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: how that works. But I mean, I I tell you, 376 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 1: if if your your friend Robert Evans for here, I 377 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: could pitch a hole behind the bastards on this doctor 378 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,959 Speaker 1: powers guy. Um so he sounds fascinating. He has a subreddit, 379 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: like all good physicians do. I love the doctor has 380 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: a subreddit, and my my favorite post other than recently, 381 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: he's been pushing this like miracle hair tonic that he made, 382 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: which is like, come on, buddy, like like now, and 383 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: it's just obvious. He calls it, yep, yep, the verbon 384 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: he might call it. He might even call it an elixir, 385 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: which is very funny, but all from a magical hand 386 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: tonic exactly. It's so funny because one of the components 387 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: of it, I think is finasteride. Like I I looked 388 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: at the and I'm like, yes, that is something for 389 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: bald for male pattern baldness. It will probably work. Congratulations, 390 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: you just remade rogaine. Uh. But the the single post 391 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: that I feel like perfectly encapsulates this guy's mentality. Um is, 392 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: There's this big post that went around through like cis 393 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: gender like kind of like centrist spaces that every trans 394 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: person I saw was just like, excuse me, what the fuck? 395 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 1: Where this guy was secretly micro dosing injectable estrogen that 396 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: he prescribes himself, which sounds kind of illegal. Not gonna lie, uh, 397 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: and messed up the dose by a thousand percent, by 398 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 1: a thought, by a times thousand yeah, yea yeah, And um, 399 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: like I can give you the link. I I can. 400 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: I know exactly where it is. I can give you 401 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: the link if you wanted to read this. It is 402 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: buck Wild. But the thing is, he goes on to 403 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 1: describe this like acute dysphoric episode that he had from 404 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: one high dose of subcutaneous estrogen, a thing that is 405 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: not physiologically possible and in completely insane. That and he 406 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: but he was like, but I understand the pain the 407 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: trans women go through because I fucked up a dose 408 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: where I was secretly taking estrogen to make my face 409 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: look younger. So I understand your pain and have so 410 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: much empathy for for the trans women's that I am 411 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: trying to save. And it is so frustrating to me 412 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,719 Speaker 1: how many people give him like credence, give him credit, 413 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: um because he he has he has claims like apply 414 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: progesterone cream to the the the smaller breast to even 415 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: them out, And it's like, Okay, my dude, have you 416 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 1: ever met like people with breasts. One is larger than 417 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: the other. That's how breasts work. It's like, well, what's 418 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: your evidence for that? Well, I had two people who 419 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: did it and they said it worked. Okay, cool. Do 420 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: you have those those reports? No? No, no, they got 421 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: burned up in a house fire, and it's very sad 422 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 1: and I can't give you that. Yes. So, so he 423 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,120 Speaker 1: worked in a clinic that a friend of mine actually 424 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: moved to after they got rid of him because he 425 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: made all these wildly anecdotal claims and whenever anybody challenged, 426 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: and then his house burned out, which is actually very 427 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: sad because his cats died in it, and he didn't 428 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: deserve his cats because cats are perfect creatures and this 429 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: man is insane and cats never do anything wrong. Cats 430 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: are a perfect, magical beings. I love yours so much 431 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 1: as they keep crossing in front of the screen. They're perfect. Um. 432 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 1: But so, whenever anybody challenges him on literally any of 433 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: his claims, he goes, well, I had all of that data, 434 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: but it burned up in my house. And then he 435 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: like makes it a sob story about like how like 436 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: like horrible this was, which like I'm sure it was 437 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: really bad, Like I'm sure it was like really really bad. 438 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: But even his um like power point presentations that he 439 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: has that he like goes through to like really like 440 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: talk about the powers method and make it sound like 441 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: really really good, has a like fire safety section specifically 442 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: so he can garner this like sympathy so people will 443 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: not quest in his claims that have no evidence behind them. 444 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: And so it's just such a fantastic examinated to me, 445 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 1: Like it's just so weird seeing like a space that 446 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 1: has historically been denigrated in the evidence. You know, you 447 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: had that whole episode on the Hirshfeld Institute, and you 448 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: know we see all this like anti anti trans uh 449 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: like propaganda and legislation going on right now that there's 450 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: a lot of like empty space in the medical record 451 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: and in the evidence record for what to do in 452 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 1: these situations. There's a lot of confusion from the guidelines 453 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: in these other societies like I was talking about, and insteps. 454 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: This guy who sees an opportunity to be like, uh 455 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: like popular like powerful individual in this space to give 456 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: people hope that he can cash in on uh And 457 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,479 Speaker 1: since the medications and since the hormone therapy is so safe, 458 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: he doesn't actually hurt that many people, And it's it 459 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: is so wilde being this juxtaposition of individuals being like, well, 460 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: this is unsafe experimental nonsense, and seeing this guy flagrantly 461 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: overdosing people on hormones with no ill effects because they're 462 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: that safe. Uh, that is that is pretty funny. Yeah, yeah, 463 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: it's it's it's funny in that like laughing until you're 464 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: crying kind of way. Yes, Yes, What is the way 465 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: that people can try to combat all the medical disinformation 466 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: around HRT specifically because we do specifically let's you see 467 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: this a lot and to save the children rhetoric, we 468 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 1: see this a lot for just anti tran stuff in 469 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: general of and like, yeah, just in terms of someone 470 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: who has to deal with this stuff on a professional level, 471 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: like when when we're just faced with all of this 472 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: just complainely just like wrong stuff being treated as absolute 473 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: fact when your experience, what's kind of the best ways 474 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: to go about that? In people? Oh my goodness. Um, 475 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: it kind of depends on the audience. When I'm talking 476 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: to other other health care practitioners, I UM, I can. 477 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: I I have historically because I do a lot of 478 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: like teaching and advocacy in this area. To other health 479 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,880 Speaker 1: care practitioners and UM holding sessions like volunteering for to 480 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: to hold sessions of like to educate on this and 481 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: say like, these are the kind of regimens that are 482 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: commonly used in clinics. This is why these are things 483 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: to look out for and to stress the importance of 484 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: believing the patient and UM the importance of you don't 485 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: want to gate keep because if if which they're not 486 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: that dangerous, but if there is to be a problem, 487 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: you would rather have that patient want to work with 488 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: you to solve it. Is like such a big part 489 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: of it, like even just understanding that from that level 490 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: that you're not like delivering this kind of like life 491 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: saving medication to them as this like Lord on High. 492 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: It's this idea that like, no, you should be working 493 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: with this person and if you're not familiar with it, 494 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: you need to do your fucking research. And I will 495 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: give you the resources for that. I will. I will 496 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: walk you through those resources. And that's that's awfully convincing 497 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: for the majority of healthcare individuals at any level, because 498 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: I've done I've done talks for students and nursing programs 499 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: and physical therapy programs all the way up to like 500 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: actively practicing physicians, nurses, and pharmacists, and it's basically the same. 501 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: You just you make the argument, you show the evidence, 502 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: You give them the evidence, and you walk them through, 503 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: uh like kind of and and then and then have 504 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: a robust question and answer period where they will ask 505 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: you those questions and you can explain why they are wrong. 506 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: Having that kind of dedicated space can be really beneficial, 507 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: but not scalable in a way that's necessarily helpful. Like 508 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: I've made a positive impact on my city, but that 509 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: doesn't really necessarily help if you yourself are not a 510 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: health care practitioner and want to like explain this kind 511 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: of stuff. And I mentioned earlier that on Twitter, I've 512 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time like arguing that people shouldn't 513 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: be boofing their progesterone. But I've had to stop because 514 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: it's exhausting every single person like coming back. It's like 515 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: the same conversations over and over again. And there's no 516 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: good way to like have a central location that just 517 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: has all that information that anybody is gonna believe because 518 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: of the way the internetworks. Um, So I guess my 519 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: answer is I'm not sure, Like there's so much misinformation 520 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: out there, and so much of it is so wrong 521 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: and not in alignment with reality that looking at it 522 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: at all, it falls to pieces and and the idea 523 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: of the majority of people too. I guess I could 524 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: say if a person is coming to you and asking 525 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: legitimate questions and they don't really know, like they're just 526 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: like parroting stuff that they heard, they they're much easier 527 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: to convince because you can show like, oh, like we 528 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: have a long history of doing this, like look at 529 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: the you know, I tell my students about how like 530 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two was the first like recognized hormonal mediated 531 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: transition in the United States, Like she was like a 532 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: movie star. Um and and you know, I talked about 533 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: a lot of the history to be like this isn't new, 534 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: this is something like we have been here forever. Um 535 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: My my favorite story. Do you know about the story 536 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: about the Scifian priestesses. Yes, I actually do, but I 537 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: would love for you to explain it. But oh my god, 538 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: I found out about that a few months ago and 539 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, it makes me so happy. 540 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: So so to to explain very briefly, I think it's 541 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: it's an old Um. I think it was like Herodotus. 542 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: It's like an old like Crestian like author that we 543 00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: have information, author, philosopher, whatever, historian. But they talk about 544 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: in one of the texts the Scythian priestesses, who essentially 545 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: distill the poison of woman. They call it in one 546 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: of the texts, which I think is just such a 547 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: great term from um uh, pregnant mayor urine, which interestingly enough, 548 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: we actually still make today conjugated estrogens. The brand name 549 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: is premarin because it comes from pregnant mayor urine. Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 550 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: that's that's literally a thing that we still do today. 551 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: That is hilarious. It's beautiful, it's so good. Um. And 552 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: So they were priestesses. They were like, you know, people 553 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: would come to them to seek out their wisdom and 554 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: they're like the like spiritual thing. And it was a 555 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: it was like a bunch of trans women who like 556 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: got high, told stories and probably sucked each other. And 557 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: that sounds like a policule to me. But like the Cillian, 558 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,719 Speaker 1: the Scythians were like a nomadic group of people who 559 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: would travel all around kind of what is now the 560 00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: Middle East. Um and yeah, it's I mean, I do 561 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: love the idea of trans people having like specific like 562 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: more esoteric insight almost naturally because they've had to deal 563 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: with ideas of ontology, and ideas as ontology is just 564 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: like the nature of being um and so having people 565 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: with that having to deal with like the nature of 566 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: reality from a much a younger age because their whole 567 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: perception of reality and self is obviously so different because 568 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: of their experience of being what is now called trans um. 569 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: So it makes a lot of sense that a lot 570 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: of these people would have been like basically different forms 571 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: of Shabin's mediums. We'll just have like esoteric insight because 572 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: they've been thinking about these types of like reality altering 573 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: topics for so much longer because it's so much more 574 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: personally affecting to them. Um. But yes, what I specifically 575 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: read about the cythy and priestesses and like, oh my, 576 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: they're just like doing the thing, just doing the thing. 577 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: It turns out we've been doing this forever. My favorite 578 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: account is one of the reasons they commanded respect of 579 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: the like masculine leaders that would come to get information 580 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: was because they were all terrified that they would inflict 581 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: the poison of women, which of them it does spread 582 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,879 Speaker 1: by the way it is, it's highly contagiousous. But it's 583 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: just the idea that like there was like some of 584 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: the respect was from like this fear of being force 585 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: femed is hilarious, from like this early BC, the primordial 586 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: fear of the primordial fear. I was gonna say, Garrison, 587 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: you mentioning like ontology. My original degree was in psychology 588 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: and philosophy, So like, let's go, baby, we can go 589 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 1: deep on some of this stuff. Sure, I'm sure, I'm 590 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: sure we couldn't talk about mysticism and magic and gender 591 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: for a long long time. Oh my god, there'll be 592 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: a whole another podcast. Are big areas of interest. But 593 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: I but I, but I super agree with you because 594 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this and I've ended up having 595 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: conversations with a lot of my peers in pharmacy and 596 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 1: in the university. Because people might not recognize this, but 597 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: pharmacy is actually one of the more conservative spaces in healthcare. Uh. 598 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: Like my my school had a dress code for this 599 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: students until two years ago when I fought hard enough 600 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: to get it removed, like it was wild. Um, like 601 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: the Code of Conduct committee tried to get me, tried 602 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: to prevent me from getting my ears pierced. Like, yeah, 603 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: it's a wild space for me to exist in. Um 604 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,959 Speaker 1: it's extremely conservative, extremely traditional, like the some like yeah, 605 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: I got stories that I'd love to tell if you 606 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: wanted to hear them. But the thing that I think 607 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: is really interesting is when you look at me in 608 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,280 Speaker 1: comparison to my my colleagues who are predominantly like Christian, 609 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: predominantly like traditionalist, predominantly capitalist, and I roll in as 610 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: this like anti capitalist, like anarchists, trans woman, who's Polly, 611 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: who's pan sexual, who's a pagan? All the p's And 612 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,240 Speaker 1: it's like, well, once I question gender, I started realizing 613 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: all of culture and society is bullshit, and now I 614 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: can tell you the truth come to me. For the 615 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: truth of reality, No even make sense in terms of 616 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: like you know, why why did two trans women make 617 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: the matrix? You're like, yeah, no, it's like it's it is. 618 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,280 Speaker 1: It is the same thing as your Your entire nature 619 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 1: and basis of reality was severely questioned. So so you're 620 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: trying to trying to understand these feelings. And for you know, 621 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,760 Speaker 1: mid modern days, we have like stuff like simulation theory, 622 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: we have the matrix. UM, and then you know, but 623 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: before before then, you know it would have been taken 624 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: out in like spiritualism and religion and you know, the 625 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: different levels of reality on like the whole like mystic 626 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: side of things as opposed to like the more sci 627 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: fi side of things. Um, but yeah, like it's it's 628 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: all the same stuff. Like you're, you're, you're, you're playing 629 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 1: with the same things. Um, yeah, it is. It is 630 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: just a funny, a funny trend that once you, once 631 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: you notice it, you'll you'll start seeing it in in 632 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: like different places. Yeah. So we are still mystics who 633 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: understand the true reality of the world and will force 634 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: from you if you don't give us respect. I just 635 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: don't see what the problem I believe that that was 636 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 1: to take away from matrix resurrections. Oh yeah, I mean, well, 637 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: of is there is there anything else you would want 638 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: to you would want to add? Oh my goodness, Um, 639 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: I don't know. Fight for trans people. One of the 640 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: things that I end up always having to talk to 641 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: my students about in colleagues and things is what ally means, 642 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: because I've literally gotten into arguments with people who are like, 643 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: oh yeah, it's l g B t Q. I A 644 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: because a standard for ally, and I'm like, oh, I 645 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: will knife you, like like, it doesn't stand for ally, 646 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 1: it stands for a sexual or very romantic of all 647 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: of all of the other a's. Yes, but it's the 648 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: it's this thing where people think being an ally is 649 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: just being like like okay with a person existing the 650 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: kind of like well if it makes you happy, which 651 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,439 Speaker 1: is like okay, motherfucker, that's not like that is so 652 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: belittling of the experience. Um, that's not ally ship. To 653 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 1: be an ally, you have to leverage your privilege by 654 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,760 Speaker 1: not being a member of that community to protect people 655 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: in that community. You can be tolerant, but not an ally. 656 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: And that's sort of where the old saying comes from 657 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: that if that's what being an ally is to you, 658 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,359 Speaker 1: we don't need allies, we need accomplices. And Um. With 659 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 1: the current legislative push against trans people, I mean like 660 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: literally what I do is like a felony in three 661 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: states now are almost a felony in three states, and 662 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,320 Speaker 1: it's going to be a growing number of states. Yeah, 663 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: and and and it's just so unbelievably depressing. And there 664 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: aren't enough I mean, there's a lot of trans and 665 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: non binary and and every kind of expression you could want. 666 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: People in this country way more than than a lot 667 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:53,879 Speaker 1: of surveys suspected. Um. But we're not enough to necessarily 668 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: fight this in a way that isn't going to end 669 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: up with increasing violence. I mean, the the FBI is 670 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: statistics of random violence against in like hate crime specifically 671 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,360 Speaker 1: has been rising against LGBT people, especially trans people in 672 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,439 Speaker 1: the last couple of years, and I'm sure it's only 673 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: going to get more in the next few years, still 674 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,240 Speaker 1: with all of the with the wave of stuff happening 675 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 1: in the past few months. Yeah, So if you're if 676 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: you're not, if you're assist person and you want to 677 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 1: be an ally, you gotta fight for us. And if 678 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,240 Speaker 1: you're a trans person, if you don't have other reasons 679 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,839 Speaker 1: why you can't maybe arm yourself in some way at 680 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,399 Speaker 1: this point, if you if you feel mentally capable, it's 681 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: not a bad idea to learn how to do things. 682 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: It's not a not a bad idea to get stop 683 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: the bleed training, not a bad idea to get you know, 684 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,879 Speaker 1: emergency first aid training, right all of all of all 685 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: of the things. Because things are things are happening, and 686 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: they're going to keep happening. Uh, one might say it 687 00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 1: could happen here. Wow, I know we really we really 688 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,840 Speaker 1: put this together, just pulled it back, just just really 689 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: encapsulated it. So yeah, I think that does it for 690 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: us today. UM, do do you have Do you have 691 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: any uh plugables that you would like to plug? Yeah? Sure, 692 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: so if you wanted to talk to me more, you can. 693 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter for now, assuming that elon must doesn't 694 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: make it entirely unlivable at Vixen, which but the w 695 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: S two vs. I don't post a hole up you can. 696 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,239 Speaker 1: You can find me there. You can also just straight 697 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: up email me if you had questions. My like work 698 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: email for that purpose is just Victoria dot grieve at 699 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: pit dot e d U I'd have I'd be happy 700 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: to answer any questions that people have. Uh. And it's 701 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: a robust university firewall, so if I get hey that 702 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 1: that's fine. It won't get through. Um the and then 703 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: outside of like my classes and stuff. The only other 704 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 1: thing I wanted to plug because you brought it up. 705 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 1: I am a frequent guest on a podcast that a 706 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: friend of mine hosts called School of Movies, and we 707 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: actually did Matrix two three and four UM and I 708 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,359 Speaker 1: was on those episodes and talked a lot about the 709 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 1: trans narrative therein we also did an episode on Priscilla, 710 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,760 Speaker 1: Queen of the Desert that I'm really troubed because that's great. 711 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: I was that was lucky enough to watch Prisiliquity of 712 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: the Desert a few a few months ago UM with 713 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,759 Speaker 1: some queer friends of mine and with Hugo Weaving in 714 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: in both of those he is he is. It is 715 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 1: pretty It is pretty fun watching Hugo Weaving go from 716 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,960 Speaker 1: Agents Smith to his character and Priscilo Queen of the Desert. 717 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: It's beautiful. It's a beautiful metamorphosis. It is. It is 718 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: very good. But yeah, thank you so much for coming 719 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: on to talk anytime. Thank you for listening to my 720 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 1: little two parter on hormone replacement therapy. If you want 721 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: to start reading more on the d I Y and 722 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,360 Speaker 1: mutual aid side of things, check out d I Y 723 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 1: HRT dot, get hub dot io HRT dot Cafe and 724 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: d I Y trans dot Luckie as a jumping off point. 725 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 1: But obviously you don't everything to read on the internet 726 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 1: as gospel. I do think it's worth learning how to 727 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,760 Speaker 1: make your own drugs possibly and learning how to source 728 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: your nestrogen from places that are not just a doctor, 729 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,800 Speaker 1: because who knows what other states will start criminalizing getting 730 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: drugs for doctor right it's it is. There seems to 731 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 1: be a trend of making HRT illegal via the medical system. 732 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 1: So this is something definitely to look into because it 733 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 1: seems more and more people will face restrictions in this vein. 734 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's kind of a big reason for why 735 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about this today on the pod. 736 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,720 Speaker 1: Big extra special thanks to Dr Victoria Luna Brennan Grieve 737 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: for coming on to talk with me about gender affirming 738 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,920 Speaker 1: hormonal treatment. You can check her out or ask her 739 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,720 Speaker 1: questions on her Twitter, which can be found at vixen 740 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: which with two vs for the w in which, or 741 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 1: you can email her queries at Victoria dot Grieve at 742 00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,320 Speaker 1: pit dot e d U. And that does it for 743 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,840 Speaker 1: us today, everybody. You can follow the show at Happened 744 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,279 Speaker 1: Here pod and cool Zone Media on Twitter and Instagram, 745 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: and you can look at my late night gender hostile 746 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:16,360 Speaker 1: tweets at Hungry bow Tie. See you on the other side. 747 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,240 Speaker 1: It could happen here as a production of Cool Zone Media. 748 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website 749 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,279 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 750 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,840 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 751 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts, you can find sources for It could 752 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 1: happen here, Updated monthly at cool zone media dot com 753 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: slash sources. Thanks for listening.