1
00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:07,680
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg P and L Podcast. I'm Pim

2
00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,080
Speaker 1: Fox along with my co host Lisa Abramowitz. Each day

3
00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,360
Speaker 1: we bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews

4
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 1: for you and your money, whether at the grocery store

5
00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,960
Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg P L Podcast

6
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:28,240
Speaker 1: on iTunes, SoundCloud, and at Bloomberg dot com. It has

7
00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,640
Speaker 1: been an eventful past week, and one of the bits

8
00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,600
Speaker 1: of news that has come out in recent days is

9
00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,280
Speaker 1: that President Trump elevated his chief strategist Steve Bannon to

10
00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:44,080
Speaker 1: the National Security Council. Into Mooded, the Director of National Intelligence,

11
00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,000
Speaker 1: off of that committee. I want to bring an Ambassador

12
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,199
Speaker 1: Lincoln Bloomfield. He's the chairman of the Simpson Center and

13
00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,480
Speaker 1: he was Assistant Secretary of State from two thousand and

14
00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,880
Speaker 1: one to two thousand five under George W. Bush, president

15
00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,520
Speaker 1: of the United States at the time. Uh, Ambassador Bloomfield,

16
00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. First, I just

17
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,200
Speaker 1: want to get a sense before we even start to

18
00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:10,119
Speaker 1: talk about the implications, what does the National Security Council

19
00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,520
Speaker 1: really do well? That does vary from president to president,

20
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,280
Speaker 1: but it was set up under a law in nine

21
00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:22,600
Speaker 1: in order to coordinate military and non military activities better.

22
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,919
Speaker 1: And so it's function traditionally has been a place where

23
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,360
Speaker 1: each of the cabinet departments in the national security community

24
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,800
Speaker 1: comes together, gives their recommendations, and usually the National Security

25
00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,639
Speaker 1: Advisor is the one at the heading the meetings unless

26
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,920
Speaker 1: the President does it himself in major cases of emergencies,

27
00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,120
Speaker 1: um and and to to hear their views and including

28
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,800
Speaker 1: their different views, see if they can resolve them and

29
00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:50,720
Speaker 1: if they can't, and then they take it to the

30
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:56,240
Speaker 1: President for decision. Can you recall specific meetings which you

31
00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:01,080
Speaker 1: attended in which you learned something about out the operational

32
00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,520
Speaker 1: maybe backstory of of the of the you know, small

33
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,040
Speaker 1: circle of people who are included in these meetings. Well,

34
00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,519
Speaker 1: I was on the Vice president's staff for one year

35
00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,120
Speaker 1: under Dan Quayle, and I would I would go to

36
00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,639
Speaker 1: those meetings and sit against the wall. So there are

37
00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,200
Speaker 1: people who can come in the room and and watch

38
00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,560
Speaker 1: the meetings if they're White House staff. The question is

39
00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,240
Speaker 1: who has a formal seat at the table, And that's

40
00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,640
Speaker 1: that's what this is about. So President George W. Bush,

41
00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,680
Speaker 1: for example, did not allow his political counselor Karl Rove,

42
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,480
Speaker 1: to go to NFC meetings because he didn't I didn't

43
00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,240
Speaker 1: want to send a signal that there was any politics involved.

44
00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,040
Speaker 1: So if asked Bloomfield, what's your impression from Steve Bannon

45
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,280
Speaker 1: being named to this, well, you know, uh, I testified

46
00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 1: last fall at a hearing that the House Foreign Affairs

47
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,440
Speaker 1: Committee held about the issue of the National Security Council

48
00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,840
Speaker 1: and the size and the role. And frankly, the bottom

49
00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,680
Speaker 1: line is that presidents get to decide who there eisors are.

50
00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,320
Speaker 1: This is the White House staff. So if the President

51
00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:07,120
Speaker 1: Trump wants Steve Bannon to be at the table, uh,

52
00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:13,480
Speaker 1: deliberating with the senior national security agency heads, that is

53
00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,799
Speaker 1: his call he can. I mean, I think he's sort

54
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:20,079
Speaker 1: of deferred to the president whatever serves the president's purpose

55
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,560
Speaker 1: to to make the best decisions. So he has crossed

56
00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,880
Speaker 1: a line that was not crossed by previous presidents. President

57
00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,440
Speaker 1: Obama had David Axelrod come to some of these meetings,

58
00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,840
Speaker 1: but he sat out, you know, he didn't sit at

59
00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,560
Speaker 1: the table and participate. But that's just a call that's

60
00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,120
Speaker 1: been made. And if President Trump is relying on Steve

61
00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:43,120
Speaker 1: Bannon to be his advisor across the board on these issues,

62
00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,440
Speaker 1: then then I think that at the end of the day,

63
00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,440
Speaker 1: people will defer to that how it works. But what

64
00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 1: about the on the flip side, President Trump's to Mooting,

65
00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,160
Speaker 1: the Director of National Intelligence and the Chairman of the

66
00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,040
Speaker 1: Joint Chiefs of Staff. Those I think are actually the

67
00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,080
Speaker 1: more interesting discussion. I mean, obviously people are fascinated by

68
00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,640
Speaker 1: Mr Bannon, whom I don't know, and he's he's a

69
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,800
Speaker 1: person who's getting a lot of attention. We will see

70
00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,600
Speaker 1: how how that plays out and what he what his

71
00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:13,640
Speaker 1: input is. But the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, by law,

72
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,039
Speaker 1: was given the principal role of military advisor to the

73
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:22,000
Speaker 1: President under the Goldwater Nichols Law Reform Act of nineteen

74
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,640
Speaker 1: six and so the notion and so what the directive

75
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 1: said was on those issues where they have business before

76
00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,800
Speaker 1: the committee, they can come otherwise, not that I think

77
00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,360
Speaker 1: that the impact there is whether you whether you get

78
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,080
Speaker 1: a really solid flow of the team around the president.

79
00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,440
Speaker 1: And this is usually run by the National Security Advisor.

80
00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,400
Speaker 1: So General Michael Flynn is the is the national Security Advisor.

81
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,039
Speaker 1: This is his operation. So the question is what will

82
00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,120
Speaker 1: be the chemistry if the people at the table keep

83
00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:58,320
Speaker 1: changing Traditionally and I'm talking about decades. The first person

84
00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,640
Speaker 1: that the National Security Advisor turned too is the intelligence person.

85
00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,680
Speaker 1: Let's start with an intelligence update, what's the latest, what

86
00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,479
Speaker 1: do we know? Then the Secretary of State has the

87
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,919
Speaker 1: sort of Uh, the protocol leads, so the Secretary of

88
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,360
Speaker 1: State goes second or their deputies. And that's the way

89
00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,279
Speaker 1: this has worked for decades. Uh. If key players like

90
00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,400
Speaker 1: the military representative is not there, I think you're going

91
00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,520
Speaker 1: to hear and already are hearing from members of Congress

92
00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,040
Speaker 1: who say, wait a minute, um, the principal advisor of

93
00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,040
Speaker 1: the military needs to be part of this team pretty

94
00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,240
Speaker 1: much at all times. It is national security. And you

95
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,039
Speaker 1: will hear from senior military as well, who feels that

96
00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,359
Speaker 1: the voice of the professional military is essential and that

97
00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,799
Speaker 1: whether the president agrees to it, agrees with the military

98
00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,120
Speaker 1: advice or not, it's not the point. It's whether the

99
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,919
Speaker 1: president is hearing that advice. And as for d n

100
00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,480
Speaker 1: I Congress created the Directorate of National Intelligence after nine eleven.

101
00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,599
Speaker 1: They added a very what turned out to be two

102
00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,279
Speaker 1: thousand people, a very big layer on top of the

103
00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,719
Speaker 1: other agencies. And know, if they aren't at the table,

104
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,240
Speaker 1: then you know, I'll just give a personal view. General

105
00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 1: Flynn regionally intelligence very closely, so I don't fear that

106
00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,560
Speaker 1: President Trump will be uninformed about intelligence, but but not

107
00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,320
Speaker 1: having the community's voice there at the table is going

108
00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,560
Speaker 1: to raise some questions. So how many how much? So

109
00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,159
Speaker 1: the question is how much friction do they want to

110
00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:24,880
Speaker 1: cause and how much? Thanks very much, Ambassador Lincoln Bloomfield,

111
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:29,480
Speaker 1: Chairman of the Stimpson Center, speaking about changes in the

112
00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:44,800
Speaker 1: Trump administration's National security team. I want to learn more

113
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:51,160
Speaker 1: about our southern border neighbor, Mexico and potential opportunities there.

114
00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,160
Speaker 1: Herrado Rodriguez, Managing director and portfolio manager at black Rock

115
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,320
Speaker 1: Financial Management, UM, thank you so much for joining us.

116
00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,600
Speaker 1: You were quoted in an article all about a week

117
00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,320
Speaker 1: or so ago saying that you think that the Mexican

118
00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,479
Speaker 1: PATO could be one of the best bets of We've

119
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,960
Speaker 1: certainly had an eventful a couple of days on the

120
00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:16,000
Speaker 1: political front. Do you still believe that? Absolutely? At LISTA

121
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,200
Speaker 1: and good morning everyone. When you think about the Mexican economy,

122
00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,679
Speaker 1: it is an economy that has been run relatively conservatively

123
00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:29,720
Speaker 1: from an economic policy perspective. It is an economy that

124
00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:34,040
Speaker 1: has the fiscal accounts in order, inflation has been uh,

125
00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,280
Speaker 1: sort of coming down. There is a big shock that

126
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,400
Speaker 1: the Mexican economy is facing because of a change in

127
00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,080
Speaker 1: policy from the US administration, But so far it is

128
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,440
Speaker 1: an economy that has been adjusting very well. Using a

129
00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,800
Speaker 1: textbook example, tighten on the fisical, raising interest rates on

130
00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,520
Speaker 1: the monitor, letting the currency go. And we're getting to

131
00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 1: a point in which Mexican assets actually look very very cheap.

132
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,600
Speaker 1: The val do that they have accumulators quite significant, but

133
00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:08,120
Speaker 1: they uncertainty surrounding the US Mexican relationship. It is something

134
00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,760
Speaker 1: that needs to be addressed before asset prices in Mexico

135
00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,920
Speaker 1: start to perform. But from evaluation perspective, clearly Mexican assets

136
00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,320
Speaker 1: are one of the most attractive trade for the months

137
00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,720
Speaker 1: remaining this year. So here Ado. You served for more

138
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,960
Speaker 1: than a decade in the Mexican Ministry of Finance, last

139
00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,680
Speaker 1: serving as the under Secretary of Finance and Public Credit.

140
00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,720
Speaker 1: I imagine you've had a lot of contact with Mexican

141
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,120
Speaker 1: officials and probably can get a better feel for just

142
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,600
Speaker 1: how elevated the tensions have become. Do you have a

143
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,360
Speaker 1: sense of how much what we're hearing is political rhetoric

144
00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,559
Speaker 1: uh and sort of chest beating and how much really

145
00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,280
Speaker 1: nearing a sort of tipping point into a very bad

146
00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,280
Speaker 1: state of affairs between Mexico and the US. Well, there

147
00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:59,680
Speaker 1: are there are two different dynamics here that we need

148
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,120
Speaker 1: to to understand better. One is just what the US

149
00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,440
Speaker 1: wants from Mexico. From a trade perspective. Mexico has been

150
00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,000
Speaker 1: a good neighbor. It is a comparative neighbor. It is

151
00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,600
Speaker 1: a neighbor that tends to sort of to engage and

152
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,760
Speaker 1: to compromise on different things. It has been a very

153
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:24,560
Speaker 1: fruitful relationship since NAFTA was signed. It was a very

154
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:29,200
Speaker 1: fruitful relationship with the Canadians and the US. So it

155
00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,960
Speaker 1: would be important to understand exactly what is it that

156
00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,040
Speaker 1: the US would like if an institutional table was set

157
00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:43,040
Speaker 1: up to basically modernize NAFTA, and there's a blueprint already

158
00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,240
Speaker 1: for that, and it is basically the content in terms

159
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,720
Speaker 1: of um the sort of rules of origin for example

160
00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:55,960
Speaker 1: that has been negotiated in the context of TPP intellectual

161
00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:02,240
Speaker 1: property and an addressing sort of dispute mechanisms. Now, on

162
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,439
Speaker 1: the other hand, you have a domestic political agenda, domestic

163
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:11,600
Speaker 1: political dynamics that the president of Mexico has a twelve

164
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,680
Speaker 1: percent approval rate all time load. There's a lot of

165
00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:19,199
Speaker 1: pressure and if anything, these contentious issue against the US,

166
00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,040
Speaker 1: it is something that is bringing the population together now

167
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,760
Speaker 1: because the two things are a bit uncertain. You're right

168
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,960
Speaker 1: that we could get two different equilibriums here. I think

169
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,240
Speaker 1: that it's still the central scenario is one in which

170
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:39,400
Speaker 1: sort of reason prevails. Everyone has been benefiting from NAFTA,

171
00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,079
Speaker 1: there's potential to improve that, and then an institutional table

172
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,439
Speaker 1: is set up with the Canadians, the US and Mexico,

173
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,560
Speaker 1: and that brings you to a more benign outcome for

174
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,680
Speaker 1: asset prices in Mexico. But given what's been happening over

175
00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,360
Speaker 1: the past few days, it is likely that we don't

176
00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,960
Speaker 1: get there, and then the tensions actually increase and the

177
00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:05,840
Speaker 1: positions radicalized. So again, it is a great value trade,

178
00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,200
Speaker 1: but it is one that you need to be careful

179
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 1: at this point. Mr Rodriguez honoring the theme of focusing

180
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,520
Speaker 1: on your purchase price of any investment, in other words,

181
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,760
Speaker 1: the purchase prices. The most important function for some investors

182
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,880
Speaker 1: is the purchase price not only of the pace so

183
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:32,000
Speaker 1: but of certain Mexican assets at a point where you

184
00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:37,520
Speaker 1: believe that long term investors will be significantly rewarded. Absolutely,

185
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:43,440
Speaker 1: But that is assuming that the reality of a Mexican

186
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,560
Speaker 1: economy continues to be in line of what it has

187
00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,840
Speaker 1: been over the past. It's not it's the eleventh largest

188
00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,520
Speaker 1: economy in the world exactly. But but but one needs

189
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,040
Speaker 1: to understand that if we go the route over, say,

190
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:03,400
Speaker 1: radicalization of positions between Mexico and the US, there's a

191
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,560
Speaker 1: lot of value that could be destroyed and actually Mexican

192
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,480
Speaker 1: assets could go even weaker. So again, given the central

193
00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:17,280
Speaker 1: scenario in which countries are able to channel these differences

194
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,559
Speaker 1: and the potential to revamp NAFTA, all of that is

195
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,640
Speaker 1: channel through institutional means. Absolutely, the answer to your question

196
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,719
Speaker 1: is that the value of Mexican assets is significantly attractive. Well,

197
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,960
Speaker 1: so is it just the pace so that looks attractive

198
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,440
Speaker 1: or are there other Mexican opportunities the past will look

199
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,280
Speaker 1: even more so? Perhaps in the corporate sphere, the Mexican

200
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,600
Speaker 1: past with certainly top of mind here, and I would

201
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,720
Speaker 1: point to Mexican interest rates. There's been there's been an

202
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,040
Speaker 1: increase of more than two hundred basis points across the

203
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:54,800
Speaker 1: curve in Mexican bonds, and certainly when four point four

204
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,120
Speaker 1: point one one for the Mexican tenure. Yeah, and and

205
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,160
Speaker 1: local currency bonds. I mean you can get bonds for

206
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,920
Speaker 1: eight percent, say out to ten fifteen years in the

207
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,160
Speaker 1: case of Mexico. You don't get that type of wheels

208
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,360
Speaker 1: in many places in the world, especially in economies that

209
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:17,600
Speaker 1: are wrong responsibly like Mexico. Is there anything that you

210
00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:22,000
Speaker 1: would see to diffuse this situation rapidly or will it

211
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,360
Speaker 1: have to escalate before it's diffused? Give you back thirty seconds.

212
00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:30,800
Speaker 1: So what we're looking after the signpost is and has

213
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:35,040
Speaker 1: to be an announcement that the US, Canada and Mexico

214
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:40,560
Speaker 1: agree on a set up out of framework to revamp NaSTA,

215
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,200
Speaker 1: and then you get to the technical details and at

216
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,600
Speaker 1: that point it stops being an element of uncertainty. Thank

217
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,280
Speaker 1: you very much. Arado Rodriguez. He is Managing Director Portfolio

218
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:58,640
Speaker 1: manager for the Emerging Markets Group at black Rock Financial Management.

219
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,600
Speaker 1: I want to call upon Bloomberg Gadfly columnist Shira over

220
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,120
Speaker 1: Day to tell us a little bit about the technology

221
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,880
Speaker 1: industry and its response to the details of the executive

222
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,080
Speaker 1: orders that were signed over the weekend by President Trump

223
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,840
Speaker 1: regarding immigration. Yeah, so obviously the some of the tech

224
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,320
Speaker 1: industry executives and CEOs, and obviously those outside the tech

225
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:38,520
Speaker 1: industry too, are responding to the calls to restrict UM

226
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,000
Speaker 1: immigration from some of those predominantly Muslim countries. The interesting

227
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,080
Speaker 1: thing to me was Sergey Bryant, is one of the

228
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,800
Speaker 1: co founders of Google and a billionaire, one of the

229
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,800
Speaker 1: richest men in the world, was spotted at protests at

230
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,480
Speaker 1: San Francisco Airport over the weekend, which I don't think

231
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,000
Speaker 1: you would see, you know, Lloyd blankfeind or Jeff m

232
00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,920
Speaker 1: melt at immigration protests. Although the week is young. We'll see,

233
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,360
Speaker 1: we shall see. We'll becoming the JFK ranks to see

234
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,280
Speaker 1: whether we see Lloyd blank find But in the meantime,

235
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,480
Speaker 1: shira uh, there was there's an interesting concern that some

236
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,480
Speaker 1: have that the worst for tech companies has yet to come,

237
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:21,880
Speaker 1: that basically VISA programs for foreign workers UM should be

238
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,280
Speaker 1: administered in a manner that protects the civil rights of

239
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,280
Speaker 1: American workers. Is according to a draft proposal that we

240
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,000
Speaker 1: may be getting from President Trump Trump imminently, with the

241
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,640
Speaker 1: idea being that some of these tech companies couldn't rely

242
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,880
Speaker 1: as much on some of their international recruiting programs they

243
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,360
Speaker 1: have in the past. Right, So basically there's a there's

244
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,560
Speaker 1: a kind of grab bag of skilled worker visa programs

245
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,160
Speaker 1: that are employed not only by tech companies but by

246
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,920
Speaker 1: many US corporations. The most kind of prominent one of

247
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,720
Speaker 1: these h one B visas, again, which are for skilled

248
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,680
Speaker 1: foreign workers in fields like engineering, and there's about eight

249
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,920
Speaker 1: five thousand of them issued every year. Uh, there is

250
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,960
Speaker 1: far more demand than there is supply, and the biggest

251
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:10,280
Speaker 1: users are the biggest companies. Granted those visas are outsourcing

252
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:15,400
Speaker 1: companies like Tata Consultancy and Accenture who hire engineers that

253
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,640
Speaker 1: that then work at again, tech companies, but also big

254
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,880
Speaker 1: banks and retailers and other American companies. What's the advantage

255
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,200
Speaker 1: for the tech companies that hire internationally other than just

256
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,680
Speaker 1: having a bigger pool of talent. Is this a play

257
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:33,280
Speaker 1: to lower the cost of of employing people? I think

258
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,360
Speaker 1: the goal depends on who you ask. So these programs

259
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,160
Speaker 1: have been targeted before, both on the left by people

260
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,320
Speaker 1: like Bernie Sanders and on the right as basically away

261
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,080
Speaker 1: for American companies to hire workers from abroad. They can

262
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 1: pay less. Now, those companies who employ those uh those

263
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,400
Speaker 1: skilled worker visas say we can't find appropriate workers in

264
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,480
Speaker 1: the United States, that this is a global work force,

265
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,320
Speaker 1: or the the world is a global place and we

266
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,200
Speaker 1: need to be able to tap into the glow will

267
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,680
Speaker 1: workforce not just the people who live inside of the

268
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,760
Speaker 1: United States walls. Is there any hint that the president's

269
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,440
Speaker 1: administration will in some way recognize the deficit that would

270
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,119
Speaker 1: occur in the technology industry if it was more challenging

271
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,560
Speaker 1: to stay in the United States, let's say after your

272
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,560
Speaker 1: term school or study. I think the most honest answer is,

273
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,720
Speaker 1: I have no idea that. Um, everything seems to be

274
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,240
Speaker 1: kind of being done by the seat of the pants,

275
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,440
Speaker 1: and it's a little bit hard to know what impossible.

276
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,679
Speaker 1: If you are looking to make the system better to

277
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,760
Speaker 1: address the needs of technology companies, what would be one

278
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:42,080
Speaker 1: thing that you would suggest. I think that if you

279
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,320
Speaker 1: ask the tech executives, they would say, we want we

280
00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,679
Speaker 1: want to be able to bring in more workers, and

281
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,080
Speaker 1: we want to be able to keep the large numbers

282
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,880
Speaker 1: of highly skilled, highly highly educated UM university graduates who

283
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,879
Speaker 1: are graduated from Harvard and Stanford every year, and our

284
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,080
Speaker 1: citizens of China, in India and other places. I think

285
00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,919
Speaker 1: there's a big desire to keep those people in the

286
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,119
Speaker 1: United States and starting companies and working for companies. So

287
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,760
Speaker 1: I think that's the number one fix or potential fix

288
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,120
Speaker 1: with this visa provision that is included in a draft

289
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,719
Speaker 1: of an order that President Trump was expected to sign. Correct,

290
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,000
Speaker 1: Can can the President enact something like this without any

291
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,040
Speaker 1: congressional sign off? Again, the honest answer is it's not

292
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:34,720
Speaker 1: clear that. Obviously, UM Congress has been trying to work

293
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,720
Speaker 1: on various UM worker visa programs for a while, and

294
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,520
Speaker 1: I believe they're at least one kind of piece of

295
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,440
Speaker 1: legislation working its way through Congress. UM. Obviously, we've seen

296
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:51,040
Speaker 1: this White House already issue sweeping executive orders without input

297
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,600
Speaker 1: from Congress or without waiting for Congress, So this may

298
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,680
Speaker 1: be the same, and it's unclear exactly how it would

299
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 1: work in practice. I believe it's worth noting that this

300
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 1: was at least described as a security measure. This is

301
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,000
Speaker 1: not aimed at the business community. We're looking at the

302
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 1: potential ramifications for the business community. Because the suspension of

303
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 1: immigration is from uh IS, because they describe it as

304
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 1: countries with ties to terror including Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia, Iraq, Iran,

305
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,960
Speaker 1: and Libya for a period of ninety days. It also

306
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 1: calls for the complete suspension of Syrian refugees for an

307
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 1: indefinite period. And I just wanted to make that clear

308
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 1: because the issue that perhaps the technology industry or any

309
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:45,360
Speaker 1: industry is focused on now is different, but maybe uh

310
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 1: certainly come under the same heading. Correct, Is that? Yeah?

311
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 1: I think that's fair. I mean there's two issues one right,

312
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,639
Speaker 1: there's the executive order issue of the weekend affecting people

313
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 1: from those particular kind of Muslim dominated countries and Syrian refugees,

314
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 1: and and there's this issue of this draft order that

315
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 1: maybe coming down the pike that our colleagues wrote about

316
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 1: affecting worker visas. And those are obviously separate issues, but

317
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,480
Speaker 1: both deal with immigrants to the United States. Do the

318
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 1: sense of which technology companies executives are have to have

319
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 1: the biggest voice into the White House? I don't know yet.

320
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 1: It's been interesting to see, you know, Tim Cook, who's

321
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 1: the CEO of Apple, isn't making the rounds in Washington

322
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,159
Speaker 1: in the last few days. The head of IBM is

323
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 1: also influential the right. The CEOs of Oracle are also

324
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 1: very influential. Um, but it's a little bit hard to

325
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: know at this point who has real influence. Because the

326
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 1: reason why I ask is because we've heard a lot

327
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 1: about the auto companies and the Detroit CEOs that have

328
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,159
Speaker 1: met extensively with President Trump, and you don't hear it

329
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 1: as much with the technology companies. Yes, there was that

330
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 1: one meeting, but beyond that, we don't have a clear sense.

331
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,400
Speaker 1: I think that's true. All this is a pretty young administration.

332
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 1: Did not feel that way, but well it could be.

333
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 1: You could say it's it's been Peter til Yes, good point.

334
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 1: I neglected to mention. Peter Tiald obviously has been a

335
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 1: close advisor and advisor to Trump, co founder of PayPal.

336
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 1: He like an Australian citizen. When citizen yes, and he's

337
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 1: also an immigrant, distribute said the Teal's originally emigrated from Germany. Well, Sarah,

338
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us, Sirah Overday, who

339
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: covers the technology sector for it. Let's move forward though,

340
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 1: with Justin st Justin is our Bloomberg government reporter and

341
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 1: he joins us. Now, Justin, let's get the sort of agenda.

342
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:58,640
Speaker 1: What is scheduled for today as far as the cabinet nominees. Yeah,

343
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: so we are inspecting, but but aren't positive that we're

344
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 1: going to see Rex tellers in the Secretary of State

345
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 1: Um have his sort of final vote in in the Senate.

346
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 1: That it's expected that he's going to fly through and

347
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: likely fly through today, especially after winning the sport of

348
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: some key Republicans, including Mark Rubio. But Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Um,

349
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 1: the top Democrat in the Senate, UH said Monday that

350
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: he's hoping to ask for delay on the confirmation vote,

351
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: citing the sort of chaos stemming from from the Muslim

352
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 1: ban um or the extreme betting band, depending on who

353
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 1: you're talking to. U that the unrolled over the weekend

354
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,439
Speaker 1: and obviously caused some chaos at airports and across the country.

355
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: You know, one thing that was a little bit played

356
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 1: down as a result of getting overshadowed by the Executive

357
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: Order on Immigration that President Trump signed was the decision

358
00:22:55,119 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 1: to elevate Steve Bannon to National Security Council and to

359
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: remove some other national security officials from that post. Do

360
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: you have any color on what was behind that or

361
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: what the implications are. Sure? Yeah, I mean, I think

362
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: it is interesting to just show a bit of the

363
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: consolidation of power that Steve Bannon, who's the former chairman

364
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: of Right bart Um now at a top aid both

365
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 1: in the campaign and the White House to Donald Trump

366
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 1: some of his power. It does make sense in the

367
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: context that when Bannon was introduced he was UM sort

368
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: of referred to with as a co chief of staff

369
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: with with Ryn's previous that they'd have similar roles. The

370
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: chief of staff typically serves on on the NFC, but

371
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 1: it is UM somewhat unprecedented to have a purely political

372
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: figure on the staff. George W. Bush Passilly excluded people

373
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 1: under Obama. David X rod Will sit in on a

374
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: couple of those meetings, but wasn't there regularly, and so

375
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 1: UM this is a change. The other sort of aspect

376
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: of this is that UM one of the people who

377
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: had their roles a little reduced was the Director National Intelligence,

378
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: Mike Flynn, who's UM the National Security Advisor, has said

379
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: that he wants d n I, which is the body

380
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 1: that kind of coordinates all the different intelligence agencies together,

381
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: to have a reduced role. And and that's interesting because

382
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: Mike Flynn was actually fired by President Obama's Director of

383
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: National Intelligence a couple of years ago, and so he

384
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: has I think some residual animosity towards that body and

385
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 1: is looking to reform um the way that intelligence works

386
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: in the Trump administration so that people like him UH

387
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 1: can succeed in the way that they didn't or he

388
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: didn't in the Obama administration. One other thing that we've

389
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: heard out of President Trump's camp this morning was that

390
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: he intends to revamp Dodd Frank in a very big way.

391
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 1: I want to bring in Nathan Dean of Bloomberg Intelligence

392
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: to give us more of a sense of what this

393
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: potential rollback might look like, especially in light of Treasury

394
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: Secretary nominee Steve Manusian's comments last week while he was

395
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: being UH when he while he was testifying in front

396
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: of Senate saying that he did not intend to completely

397
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: eradicate the vocal rule. So I think what this means

398
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: is that they're going to be studying the existing regulations. UH.

399
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: They're going to spend a couple of months, three or

400
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: six months looking at the REGs UH and trying to

401
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 1: look at ways that they can increase liquidity. UH, they

402
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: can actually maybe make it cheaper to lend money. But

403
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: I think you're going to see a targeted look at regulations.

404
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: SEC Chair nominee J. Clayton, for example, He's going to

405
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: have carte blanche to look at this. But if you

406
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: look at regulations that are governed by the FED or

407
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, Uh, those are still led

408
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: by Obama era appointees. And so Janet Janet Yellen at

409
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 1: the FED, for example, you know she's going to remain

410
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: in office still two thousand and eighteen. She may not abide.

411
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: But what by what President Trump wants to do in

412
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: terms of regulation or rolling back dot Frank, Hey and Nathan,

413
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: can you just elaborate on on who Clayton is, what

414
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: his background indicates about what he's likely to be like

415
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: as uh as the head yep. So, Jay Clayton uh

416
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: from Sullivan and Cromo has done a lot of work

417
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: with Wall Street, Uh, not so much on financial regulation

418
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: more I P O M and A activity. Our take

419
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: on that is that he speaks the bank's language, but

420
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: he's not a Dodd Frank Uh. Uh not a lot

421
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: of experience in terms of Dodd Frank. So what we

422
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 1: expect from the nominee when he comes in and we

423
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 1: expect him to be confirmed. UH, is that they're going

424
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: to spend some time three to six months not putting

425
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: any new regulations out that we expect the a sec

426
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: to follow uh Donald Trump's executive order on that. So

427
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: we don't expect any new rags, but we expect to

428
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 1: see him talking to the industry, talking to a lot

429
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 1: of bankers about what they see as ways that they

430
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: can roll back legs uh, and then eventually pushing the

431
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: agency to um move forward on that. Yeah, Nathan Dean,

432
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Bloomberg Intelligence government analyst there on

433
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: Dodd Frank and Justin Sank before I say goodbye, just

434
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: in a couple of seconds. It's the mood like right

435
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 1: now in Washington. I think it's a little chaotic. Everybody

436
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: is trying to figure out what the priorities of the

437
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: Trump administration are and how they're implementing some of these

438
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: executive actions because obviously it's not being communicated extremely well

439
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 1: right now. Thank you so much. Justin Sink, Bloomberg government

440
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: reporter in Washington, d C. Thanks for listening to the

441
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can subscribe and listen

442
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: to interviews at iTunes, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast platform you prefer.

443
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: I'm pim Fox. I'm out there on Twitter at pim Fox.

444
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: I'm out there on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's one

445
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide on

446
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio