Speaker 1: Episode three ninety Managing Money with ADHD or neurodivergence.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity, and live at your life. Here
Speaker 2: your hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen,
Speaker 1: my name is Jill, and today we are talking about
Speaker 1: something a lot of people struggle with and a few
Speaker 1: struggle with a lot. Is ADHD, or just as we're
Speaker 1: calling it currently, neurodivergence.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, neurodivergence being an umbrella term for a lot
Speaker 3: of different conditions that impact cognitive functioning. So that can
Speaker 3: include some learning disabilities, it can include a and a
Speaker 3: plethora of other things. I think there's so many different
Speaker 3: ways that we humans can show up and experience the world,
Speaker 3: and so this definitely isn't going to be able to
Speaker 3: cover all of it, but hopefully be able to look
Speaker 3: at what are some of the uniquenesses when it comes
Speaker 3: to managing money that you might be facing if you
Speaker 3: are also managing ADHD or some other type of neurodivergence,
Speaker 3: that might be a little bit different from someone who
Speaker 3: is neurotypical. So we're going to turn to the internet
Speaker 3: for this because we're not exactly experts on all of
Speaker 3: these things.
Speaker 1: Jill is much more so than I am. So I
Speaker 1: feel like this is a Jill episode.
Speaker 3: Well, and I hope to not have it be incredibly
Speaker 3: like clinical in its approach, but to just see and
Speaker 3: recognize because we've had a lot of readers of the
Speaker 3: newsletter and listeners of the podcast reach out to us
Speaker 3: about this specific thing and in our membership of Yeah,
Speaker 3: but what about for me when I've got some of
Speaker 3: the additional barriers to some of the typical pathways for
Speaker 3: managing money, And so I think it's worth looking at
Speaker 3: because it does impact a pretty significant portion of the population. So, Yeah,
Speaker 3: glad to be here for I'm excited about some of
Speaker 3: these articles just to kind of highlight. But at the
Speaker 3: same time, if you do consider yourself neurotypical, I think
Speaker 3: a lot of these tips are helpful as well. I
Speaker 3: think we're just finding that there's going to be extra
Speaker 3: doses needed for people who have additional barriers or circumstances
Speaker 3: to overcome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it can help empathize, help you empathize with
Speaker 1: people who may be struggling with this. I know a
Speaker 1: lot of the times. For the people we love most,
Speaker 1: it's hard for us to understand why they spend or
Speaker 1: why they manage money in the way that they do.
Speaker 1: And this could be a real eye opener if somebody
Speaker 1: in your life is struggling with ADHD or any kind
Speaker 1: of neurodiversions, to get a little insight in maybe how
Speaker 1: you can speak to them in a way that's more kind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, that's such a good point for sure.
Speaker 1: But first, this episode is brought to you by What Sorry,
Speaker 1: I was distracted. It is something that I experience personally
Speaker 1: in my life and I have never been diagnosed with
Speaker 1: any kind of neurodivergence, but as a human being with
Speaker 1: multiple people living in my household, I do get distracted
Speaker 1: and I will have hyper fixations. And so while I
Speaker 1: don't think this is clinically, I'm not gonna diagnose myself
Speaker 1: with anything, I do find it really helpful to have
Speaker 1: these continual reminders of how to best spend money and
Speaker 1: how to stay on track. And the friend letter is
Speaker 1: the way I do it when I can't listen to
Speaker 1: the podcast. Personally, I don't listen to the podcast because
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear myself speak. But if it's
Speaker 1: you saying this. The friend Letter is our three time
Speaker 1: per week newsletter where we help you in your inbox
Speaker 1: stay motivated. We've got savings tips, we have all kinds
Speaker 1: of things to help you stay focused and on track,
Speaker 1: which is really the core problem that we're having when
Speaker 1: we are so distracted by all of the directions that
Speaker 1: life is pulling us and our money. That was literally
Speaker 1: our first day. One description of the podcast is how
Speaker 1: do you figure out how to spend money when life
Speaker 1: and marketing is pulling your focus in all these different directions.
Speaker 1: We said it more eloquently than that's sound a great yeah.
Speaker 1: But so that's why we are so passionate about podcasts
Speaker 1: and so passionate specifically about the friend Letter. If you
Speaker 1: are not getting it, highly recommend that you get it
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends podcast dot com.
Speaker 3: And we did send out a poll to all of you,
Speaker 3: in those of you who are receiving that friend Letter
Speaker 3: that Jen just talked about, and there were quite a few.
Speaker 3: We asked our listeners who are managing ADHD or other
Speaker 3: neurodivergences and what are your biggest struggles when managing your
Speaker 3: spending and the majority of you did say impulse buying,
Speaker 3: which we will talk about that in some of these articles.
Speaker 3: That does coincide with some of the symptomology of what
Speaker 3: we're talking about. And then in second is making a
Speaker 3: spending plan or budgeting, and then neck and neck after
Speaker 3: that was saving for emergencies and retirement and making or
Speaker 3: earning money. But again, impulse buying is at the top
Speaker 3: of the list, and there are so many reasons for this,
Speaker 3: so many layers, but I think, yeah, additionally, if you
Speaker 3: are managing, you know, one of these things that we're
Speaker 3: talking about today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're definitely going to be writing about this
Speaker 1: in the book is specifically a little bit on ADHD
Speaker 1: and neurodivergences and how they play into impul spending. From
Speaker 1: your responses, what I found really interesting, So I learned
Speaker 1: one of you was saying that menopause on set ADHD.
Speaker 1: I had no idea that was a thing. So not
Speaker 1: struggling with ADHD your whole life and then menopause hits
Speaker 1: and you've got it. A lot of you were saying
Speaker 1: it's actually easy for you to make money because you're
Speaker 1: doing ten different side hustles. But on the other hand,
Speaker 1: it's hard to make money because maybe you get bored
Speaker 1: more easily at your job, or if you're a business owner,
Speaker 1: you're always onto the next shiny new thing, which that's
Speaker 1: my issue. But I just thought that the differences between
Speaker 1: making money were really stark because yeah, we have done
Speaker 1: a lot of side hustles, yes, but it's sticking with
Speaker 1: them that is the hard thing. Yeah, we found a
Speaker 1: lot of insight in your your responses, so please. Another
Speaker 1: reason to get on the friend letter is that we'll
Speaker 1: do these polls to incorporate what we learn into the episode.
Speaker 1: And one final thing I'll say that I got out
Speaker 1: of this was one of our readers says, our economy
Speaker 1: rewards specialization. In my ADHD makes it hard to specialize.
Speaker 1: I want to do a little of everything, and I
Speaker 1: think that's a huge reason why it's hard to spend
Speaker 1: money or not spend money. It's easy, it's spend money.
Speaker 1: It's hard to manage money when your brain wants to
Speaker 1: do a little bit of everything and you're not and
Speaker 1: you don't fully know everything about everything and money, and
Speaker 1: it makes it really overwhelming.
Speaker 3: And so I.
Speaker 1: Hope this episode will help you organize some of that.
Speaker 3: I mean, isn't that the truth about anything that is divergent, yes,
Speaker 3: from the typical, and there are beautiful things about it,
Speaker 3: and there are some real struggles and difficulties because the
Speaker 3: majority of the world and ways that things are managed
Speaker 3: or set up for a certain general population. So when
Speaker 3: you find yourself different from that, divergent from that, again
Speaker 3: beautiful pieces come along with it. But then it's like,
Speaker 3: I don't know how to fit into this system because
Speaker 3: it's not made for me. And so I think again
Speaker 3: a lot of us can relate. I mean you've already
Speaker 3: mentioned it jen to some of the symptomology, like we
Speaker 3: all can experience impulsiveness, procrastination, difficulty focusing. But then for
Speaker 3: those of you who have true diagnosises of these neurodivergences,
Speaker 3: I mean all the more like, hats off to you
Speaker 3: and what you're managing, but also hope that there can
Speaker 3: be tools and resources available to be able to manage
Speaker 3: your money well, even in maybe a world that is
Speaker 3: set up for your more typical people. But we can
Speaker 3: forge our own paths here people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the true secret is is identifying what
Speaker 1: is what gives you, what your neurodiversiens, what edge it
Speaker 1: gives you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, oh I like that. Yeah, okay. So for
Speaker 3: this first article, it comes from money Geek and it's
Speaker 3: titled supporting Neurodivergent people in Personal Finance. I think this
Speaker 3: one was a great foundational article because it really lays
Speaker 3: the groundwork for what are we even talking about here,
Speaker 3: not a ton of tips, well, at least we won't
Speaker 3: go through all the tips and this article it's pretty
Speaker 3: lengthy one, but I want to utilize at least some
Speaker 3: of this first portion about what we're talking about here.
Speaker 3: So we already did kind of describe what neurodivergence is
Speaker 3: and variation of cognitive functioning in people. So some of
Speaker 3: the learning disabilities that can fall under that neurodivergent umbrella
Speaker 3: is things like dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, and so that's like
Speaker 3: difficulties when it comes to reading, writing, math, Holy smokes,
Speaker 3: like that is money management, like to be able to
Speaker 3: do all of these things. But then if you've got
Speaker 3: one of these diagnoses and the symptoms that come along
Speaker 3: with it, yes there's some additional barriers. And then also
Speaker 3: with ADHD just being quite a common diagnosis, something we
Speaker 3: hear again many of our listeners talk about and at
Speaker 3: this point they say, it's really hard to get percentages
Speaker 3: of the population because there's a lot of people who
Speaker 3: do struggle with ADHD but are undiagnosed. But for those
Speaker 3: who are diagnosed, it's somewhere between five to eight percent
Speaker 3: of adults in the US, which doesn't sound like a ton,
Speaker 3: but you're creeping up on ten percent there, and so
Speaker 3: that's like, that's a pretty large part of the population.
Speaker 3: And we can see it just in our listeners and
Speaker 3: friendly people who respond to the friend letter. But specifically
Speaker 3: with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, there is a tendency towards impulsivity,
Speaker 3: inattentive for long periods of time, frequent procrastination, periodic bouts
Speaker 3: of hyperactivity, or problems starting and or completing tasks. There's
Speaker 3: a longer list of again like the diagnostic criteria for this,
Speaker 3: but we can see just from that definition how difficult
Speaker 3: it is and can be to do some of the
Speaker 3: tasks associated with healthy financial management. If there's an increased
Speaker 3: tendency towards impulsivity, if we are having difficulty focusing for
Speaker 3: long periods of time, if procrastination is something that we're
Speaker 3: experiencing quite a bit, so we could just see by
Speaker 3: just each of these adjectives how difficult this can be
Speaker 3: but not impossible. And I think I really appreciate some
Speaker 3: of the things that this article starts to describe in
Speaker 3: the next one on how can we respond then, but
Speaker 3: I do think it's worth going through some of the
Speaker 3: top difficulties that this article laid out with money geek.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the top one is definitely budgeting. So this
Speaker 1: can stem from people not understanding how much goods and
Speaker 1: services may either may cost or how much they may
Speaker 1: spend on them month to month. If you've ever you know,
Speaker 1: had like a like a manic episode or a hyperfixation,
Speaker 1: you definitely will spend more on something in one month,
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe nothing on it the next month,
Speaker 1: or be in there for a couple months and then
Speaker 1: be done with it. So it's hard to predict what
Speaker 1: that will be. And we also have this thing where
Speaker 1: we we feel like our budgets need to be perfect
Speaker 1: and typical, right, and so as somebody who is who
Speaker 1: may struggle with like different different things every month that
Speaker 1: you can't predict. Instead of having specific categories of spending,
Speaker 1: you can have a general category for maybe like a
Speaker 1: hyperfixation category. Right, you're giving yourself a budget and the
Speaker 1: freedom to have to take advantage of the edge that
Speaker 1: your brain may give you, but still kind of giving
Speaker 1: it a boundary because we don't want to let these
Speaker 1: things run wild. But we also it's if we try
Speaker 1: to cut it off and pretend it doesn't exist, then
Speaker 1: it gets worse. So don't try to make the perfect
Speaker 1: typical budget. Try to make a budget that will fit
Speaker 1: for you. And that's where the ninety day transaction inventory
Speaker 1: we talk about all the time comes in, because then
Speaker 1: you can start to see, like, oh, I was overspending
Speaker 1: on this, I spent this much. How can I maybe
Speaker 1: get just one percent better? That's another thing in your
Speaker 1: times where you're not super motivated, trying to do just
Speaker 1: one thing that's a step in the right direction when
Speaker 1: you're not motivated can be very helpful because we have
Speaker 1: this all or nothing mentality with our budget, so we're
Speaker 1: either doing the most or doing nothing right. But it's
Speaker 1: especially important in time in downtimes, where we just say
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do just one thing that's a step in
Speaker 1: the right direction. I'm getting one percent better, and that
Speaker 1: can help us make movement when we don't necessarily aren't
Speaker 1: super super motivated to make movement.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think freedom is going to have to be
Speaker 3: an umbrella term across this whole thing. I think if
Speaker 3: you've been managing your neurodivergence for your whole lifetime, you
Speaker 3: know yourself better than anybody else possibly could you know
Speaker 3: the edge that you have, and you know the barriers
Speaker 3: that you encounter. And I've got to imagine that you've
Speaker 3: also probably experienced degrees of success for lack of a
Speaker 3: better word, in some of these categories. So I think
Speaker 3: part of this is going to be looking back into, well,
Speaker 3: what worked in this aspect of my life, what was
Speaker 3: I able to implement there? And are there crossovers that
Speaker 3: could be correlated to my money? I think so. Some
Speaker 3: of the other barriers that they list in this article
Speaker 3: is just not understanding loan terms and costs, and some
Speaker 3: of just the jargon that is around financial resources and
Speaker 3: just the language that is used, and so certainly with
Speaker 3: people for people who are managing learning disabilities, of course,
Speaker 3: just difficulty in understanding or figuring out the math. But
Speaker 3: I think there can also be just some things that
Speaker 3: are prohibitive to all people when it comes with loan terms,
Speaker 3: cause jargon wording, and so a lot of times that
Speaker 3: can just be a barrier in and of itself. Then
Speaker 3: the is just beyond me. I'll never be able to
Speaker 3: understand it. If neurotypical people are saying that they're struggling
Speaker 3: with it, then like, what use is it for me?
Speaker 3: So some of that can either lead to maybe not
Speaker 3: making use of some of the financial resources available or
Speaker 3: falling victim to some loan sharks or different types of
Speaker 3: resources that are not actually beneficial.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think when you're looking at words that have
Speaker 1: numbers in them, like four oh one K, four oh
Speaker 1: three B, stuff like that, it can make you believe
Speaker 1: that all finance is super complicated. And I think, really
Speaker 1: this is especially if you might have like a reading limitation.
Speaker 1: I think, honestly this is where audiobooks might become really helpful.
Speaker 1: And if you're listening to this podcast, hopefully you receive
Speaker 1: audio education better than reading. And so there is so
Speaker 1: many there are so many good books that kind of
Speaker 1: that break these concepts down and make them more attainable
Speaker 1: that do not involve words that you have to physically read.
Speaker 1: Audiobooks are are great. I am finishing up Rich af
Speaker 1: by Vivian two. We had her on the show a
Speaker 1: couple months ago, and it is I thought it would
Speaker 1: be a good book. It is a fantastic book.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: I think all of our frugal friends should definitely read
Speaker 1: it or listen to it. It truly changes your mindset
Speaker 1: from you know, being rich is this like unattainable egotistical
Speaker 1: bad thing too? The rich are just playing by it,
Speaker 1: you know, they just know things that we don't and
Speaker 1: now I can. And it's not even all about that's
Speaker 1: that's just like the first chapter of the book. It
Speaker 1: is a really good demystifying book. And then another one
Speaker 1: would be I Will Teach You to Be Rich by
Speaker 1: Ramit Seti. So these are all these are some some
Speaker 1: good books that will help you kind of understand even
Speaker 1: these these words that you might need to understand or
Speaker 1: go into reading loan terms and costs, and even another
Speaker 1: one on here is people who have any kind of
Speaker 1: disability can be victims of fraud. So knowing these terms
Speaker 1: doesn't just get you better rates, it can also protect
Speaker 1: you against potential fraud, which we know scams doing our
Speaker 1: Halloween and our Valentine's Day episodes scammers know how to
Speaker 1: get us, and they just spray and pray. They are
Speaker 1: trying to get everyone. And if you're at the wrong
Speaker 1: place at the wrong time, and then you have this
Speaker 1: neurodiverension on top of it, you're very you're more susceptible
Speaker 1: to fraud. So audiobooks for the win on this one
Speaker 1: for some some more person well finance education.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so to move past some of the just highlighting
Speaker 3: the difficulties, which is important because it's normalizing. But let's
Speaker 3: let's get into the second article. So this next article
Speaker 3: comes from Unmasked. It's titled Money Management Tips from a
Speaker 3: Neurodivergent Financial Expert, and I really liked this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to get into this one.
Speaker 3: There's there's so much on the internet that can be
Speaker 3: helpful in giving tips and tricks, but this one was
Speaker 3: so to the point. It's written by someone who identifies
Speaker 3: as neurodivergent and works in this space with others in
Speaker 3: helping to give tips on managing money. Well, so we're
Speaker 3: gonna give you. We're going to give you all of
Speaker 3: them because they were so good. But I do want
Speaker 3: to highlight what they mentioned the author about what was
Speaker 3: learned when they chatted with clients who were experienced who
Speaker 3: are neurodiverse clients, so they reported lower capacity to deal
Speaker 3: with admin or paperwork, feeling amplified emotions when it came
Speaker 3: to spending and saving, maybe feeling on top of the
Speaker 3: world when you have money left, but then feeling severe
Speaker 3: guilt and shame when you spend. Impulsive spending, especially like
Speaker 3: takeaway food and maybe entertainment, special interests, hobbies. Trouble with
Speaker 3: planning ahead for future purchases, maybe even including things like
Speaker 3: annual subscriptions or possibly even like insurances that maybe come
Speaker 3: out annually or bi annually. Difficulty splitting money up and
Speaker 3: budgeting in general, and finally feeling quickly overwhelmed or general
Speaker 3: overload of information and the number of options available.
Speaker 1: The more I read about this, the more I feel
Speaker 1: scene You'll see, Yeah, I feel super seen in this,
Speaker 1: and I think it's one of the reasons I don't
Speaker 1: like to budget because of all of these things.
Speaker 3: And you found a way that works for you. I think,
Speaker 3: like again, for all of our listeners, it's a freedom
Speaker 3: to find what works for you. There is not a
Speaker 3: one size fits all, and just because you don't fit
Speaker 3: the typical ways doesn't mean that you can't be good
Speaker 3: at managing your money.
Speaker 1: Well, you could host your own frugal living podcast one day.
Speaker 3: Oh man. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also liked that she references in a study I love,
Speaker 1: I love me some studies, but so research done in
Speaker 1: I think it's somewhere in Europe that showed living with
Speaker 1: ADHD can cost an extra sixteen hundred pounds a year,
Speaker 1: and I mean just from all the extra like impulse
Speaker 1: costs and the difficulties with managing your money. So this
Speaker 1: is something if you okay, yeah, from the UK, this
Speaker 1: is something that if you start to be intentional with
Speaker 1: you'll never be perfect, right. We want to be perfect.
Speaker 1: We think if we can't do it right and be
Speaker 1: perfect and be typical, why do it at all? But
Speaker 1: if you were to just do it one percent better,
Speaker 1: save yourself one hundred and sixty bucks in a year,
Speaker 1: and then get you know, one percent more better and
Speaker 1: more better, and then you're saving another one hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty and just making these small changes that help you
Speaker 1: again work with the edge you have thanks to your
Speaker 1: neurodivergence instead of working against it. So the first that
Speaker 1: we will go through the first tip I we are
Speaker 1: one hundred percent simplify rather than organize. So with ADHD
Speaker 1: you super you very much want things to be organized.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: If it's not, then even if it's an organized chaos,
Speaker 1: you want things organized. Or it's overwhelming and functioning literally stops,
Speaker 1: there is no functioning to be had, But organized chaos
Speaker 1: is not where it's at. Simplify and then organize the
Speaker 1: less you have, the less. And this you see this
Speaker 1: with brains, not just with neurodivergence, but typical brains as well.
Speaker 1: The more things we can see in our eye line,
Speaker 1: the more clutter we literally have in our brains when
Speaker 1: we're making decisions. So if it worked, if it's a
Speaker 1: problem for typical brains, so much more do you need
Speaker 1: to be doing it? If you have overwhelm due to
Speaker 1: some of these things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because organization only lasts for so long, but simplified
Speaker 3: and maintained simplification can really help in all these other areas.
Speaker 3: I like the questions that she asks under this category
Speaker 3: of do you have multiple bank accounts? Is there a
Speaker 3: lot of PaperWorks still coming through? Can you make it digital?
Speaker 3: Do you have multiple credit cards? Is it possible that
Speaker 3: you could just use one? Do you get a lot
Speaker 3: of email marketing. What can you unsubscribe from? How many
Speaker 3: subscriptions are you managing? Can you get all your direct
Speaker 3: debits to come out of one account on the well,
Speaker 3: she says the same date. I mean, that's up to
Speaker 3: you and how the money's coming. But I think not
Speaker 3: having all these different things swirling in, the different cards
Speaker 3: in your wallet and the different digital emails coming through,
Speaker 3: can help to manage these things, not even in a
Speaker 3: more simplified way, but it takes less time. You don't
Speaker 3: have to have a full day with your full focus
Speaker 3: if it's not that complicated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is I live by, honestly. Since I
Speaker 1: don't budget regularly. I make everything as simple as possible.
Speaker 1: We're using each one credit card at a time. I
Speaker 1: instead of unsubscribing from things, I use unrolled dot me
Speaker 1: and that rolls up everything into one email. I also
Speaker 1: have like twelve thousand unread emails, so part of it
Speaker 1: is just not checking my email. That's in my personal
Speaker 1: not in my business. If you email me at Frugal Friends,
Speaker 1: I'm checking it. But yeah, and we try to keep
Speaker 1: things as simple as possible. When stuff comes in the mail,
Speaker 1: it goes straight to the trash if we don't need it.
Speaker 1: Sometimes even if we do need it, then and we
Speaker 1: have very few bank accounts, we have our high held
Speaker 1: savings for our emergency, we have our checking in savings,
Speaker 1: and then we have like one more traditional brokerage saving.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So number two on here is they've described
Speaker 3: it as seamless from start to finish. So again on
Speaker 3: this simplified notion, but making it uncomplicated, they describe this
Speaker 3: thing called spoon theory. You know, we talk about capacities,
Speaker 3: but here's another way of looking at it that this
Speaker 3: simplified version is that as a neurodiverse individual, you wake
Speaker 3: up with a number of spoons that can vary from
Speaker 3: day to day. And so you've probably heard us describe
Speaker 3: this as capacity, Like we all have capacity, some of
Speaker 3: us have a little bit more than others, but and
Speaker 3: it varies from day to day. So this is in
Speaker 3: a much more tangible way like spoons. You only have
Speaker 3: a couple of spoons every day. Maybe Monday you wake
Speaker 3: up with more spoons than you do on Thursday. But
Speaker 3: every time you're performing a task, you use one of
Speaker 3: your spoons. And really what that's pointing towards is eventually
Speaker 3: you're going to be out of spoons and unable to
Speaker 3: complete the tasks in front of you. Or if we're
Speaker 3: talking about capacity, eventually you're going to reach capacity and
Speaker 3: we're not going to have any more to give to
Speaker 3: the situation at hand. So wherever we can really make
Speaker 3: this a seamless process where it's not going to require
Speaker 3: a lot of spoons from us, the better, So things
Speaker 3: like passwords, keeping all of your passwords in one place
Speaker 3: and having easy access to that, making sure that logging
Speaker 3: into your different accounts is very easy for you, and
Speaker 3: that you have ways of tracking and that doesn't always
Speaker 3: have to be on you. There are amazing apps out there.
Speaker 3: Just having a singular bank account and credit card account
Speaker 3: can help with the tracking process to kind of know
Speaker 3: what what do you have at hand. And so this
Speaker 3: is probably two where we would recommend our episodes on
Speaker 3: the apps that we recommend, like money managements, so that
Speaker 3: it's not all on you to be sitting down and
Speaker 3: writing or figuring out how to manage your breadsheet, like
Speaker 3: let technology do that for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I personally, if you're if you want to spend
Speaker 1: money on an app that tracks everything for you, I
Speaker 1: like Monarch, and we talk about that in the Budgeting
Speaker 1: app episode that we did just a couple of months ago,
Speaker 1: back in December. But if you've tried Monarch and you're
Speaker 1: not really liking it, then check that episode, because we
Speaker 1: we cover several others. Another one we learned about afterwards Copilot,
Speaker 1: and we didn't talk about that in the episode, but
Speaker 1: it's another one to try. Yeah, I like having the
Speaker 1: everything in one place. I don't have to go into
Speaker 1: multiple card like accounts to check you know, the transactions,
Speaker 1: and it automatically updates, so that's super helpful for me
Speaker 1: getting distracted and not being able to manually update. Another
Speaker 1: reason simplifying is so important is that when you're beginning,
Speaker 1: when you're starting out in this journey, it is super
Speaker 1: important to manually input transactions, and if you are ADHD
Speaker 1: or neurodivergent, it's going to be a lot harder for
Speaker 1: you to keep up with that. So the more you simplify,
Speaker 1: the easier it gets. We don't have an excuse not
Speaker 1: to do it just because of the extra struggle. We
Speaker 1: identify the extra struggle and we make other things easier
Speaker 1: or eliminate them in order to advance. Despite you know
Speaker 1: the things that might normally hold us back. The next
Speaker 1: is to buddy up, and we love this. It says
Speaker 1: finance tasks aren't very dopamine friendly and that's where accountability
Speaker 1: can come in handy. But I don't love the word
Speaker 1: accountability and that it's like it seems negative. But I
Speaker 1: love the like encouragement aspect of being of someone you
Speaker 1: can share your wins with that is more inspiring and
Speaker 1: encouraging and quote unquote accountability than somebody checking in with
Speaker 1: you saying like, did you do this? Did you have
Speaker 1: your no spend day? I hate that that's bad. But
Speaker 1: if I like, oh my gosh, I drove right past
Speaker 1: Starbucks and I didn't get a coffee, and you have
Speaker 1: somebody to text that too, it is not just like
Speaker 1: a silent celebration, right. I love celebrations. Yeah, and that
Speaker 1: is that's how we like to see accountability.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and also just a trusted person that you
Speaker 3: can go to for some of these questions. We cannot
Speaker 3: do it all. It's part of the reason we started
Speaker 3: this podcast. Like Frugal Friends, I don't know all the
Speaker 3: things that Jen knows and vice versa. And then from
Speaker 3: our community we've learned so much from you all over
Speaker 3: these last six years. But when it comes to I'm
Speaker 3: thinking back to the other article where it talked about
Speaker 3: complicated loan terms and financial jargon and how do we
Speaker 3: muddle through all of that, And I think having some
Speaker 3: various friends in our community. You know, you've got your
Speaker 3: one friend that you're going to text your accomplishments too,
Speaker 3: But do you have somebody that you can also reach
Speaker 3: out to to say, Hey, I'm not understanding like what
Speaker 3: these credit card terms are, or I'm thinking about taking
Speaker 3: a loan for xyz, but can you help me think
Speaker 3: this through? Like that's okay to have someone to help
Speaker 3: you think through big decisions. I think there's wisdom in
Speaker 3: that and that the collective community being able to speak
Speaker 3: into some of our decision making, which is not very
Speaker 3: common for us, especially in the United States, But I
Speaker 3: want to make it more common, so to have some
Speaker 3: collective wisdom and implemented.
Speaker 1: Okay, So if you want a little bit more inspiration
Speaker 1: on this. I know this is slightly off topic, but
Speaker 1: I was just reading a study where they looked at
Speaker 1: the wealth trajectory of adults from childhood and this was
Speaker 1: done in like Cincinnati, so there's affluence there, but it's
Speaker 1: not like a New York City or in LA And
Speaker 1: they saw that the kids who went to school, like
Speaker 1: the middle class kids that went to school with more
Speaker 1: affluent children who had connections to their were more likely
Speaker 1: to be I think it was like twenty or thirty
Speaker 1: percent more wealthy than the middle class kids who only
Speaker 1: associated with other middle class income children and families, and
Speaker 1: so not a. Not only do we have a responsibility
Speaker 1: to be building wealth so that we can be bringing
Speaker 1: up others with us, but we have a responsibility to
Speaker 1: be talking about this with other.
Speaker 3: People well, and engaging in more diverse communities, because yeah,
Speaker 3: I think that is true then at all levels, if
Speaker 3: it's true for the middle class, and it'd be true
Speaker 3: for all levels, if you're only surrounded by the people
Speaker 3: who are experiencing the same as you, then most likely
Speaker 3: it'll be more of the same.
Speaker 1: Yeah, talking about money and growing wealth does not just
Speaker 1: affect you, but it affects affects all the people around
Speaker 1: you as well.
Speaker 3: Okay, Number four on this list is add friction to purchases.
Speaker 3: So this is particularly getting at that impulsivity that we
Speaker 3: can all struggle with, but particularly we heard from you.
Speaker 3: All I mean is it's just it's part of the
Speaker 3: symptomology of ADHD and it also coincides with some of
Speaker 3: your other neurodivergences. And so this is where whenever we
Speaker 3: see an increase in one thing, then our antidote also
Speaker 3: needs to increase to meet and match that. So, while yes,
Speaker 3: a large majority of the population struggles with impulse purchases,
Speaker 3: if this is even more of a difficulty in barrier,
Speaker 3: then what you add in and the resources that you
Speaker 3: utilize also need to be amplified here. So this is
Speaker 3: considering deleting saved bank account detail from your regularly online
Speaker 3: shopping sites, or not utilizing auto fill passwords. This isn't
Speaker 3: a quick fix. Maybe it's a bit of a band aid,
Speaker 3: but it is something that can help to create that pause,
Speaker 3: that friction, as they describe it, this can be even
Speaker 3: I like some of the things that they're recommending, try
Speaker 3: it out. Like again, this is not a one size
Speaker 3: fits all. No part of money management is a one
Speaker 3: size fits all, but seeing what works for you trial
Speaker 3: and error this. So they also mentioned writing notes on
Speaker 3: your credit cards, So if your impulse shopping includes pulling
Speaker 3: out a credit or debit card, putting a note on there,
Speaker 3: or something that's going to alert you to think about
Speaker 3: your purchase, maybe even a rubber band that makes it
Speaker 3: kind of difficult to pull out and you're feeling the
Speaker 3: rubber band and you're remembering, oh, I have other goals
Speaker 3: in mind than like buying this candle or whatever it
Speaker 3: is the store. And then also they recommend stick post
Speaker 3: its on the or have visual reminders about what you're
Speaker 3: saving money for or why you're not purchasing what's the
Speaker 3: bigger thing that you want to say yes to that
Speaker 3: makes this know all the more easy? And then before
Speaker 3: you make a purchase, trying to implement that habit of
Speaker 3: pausing that. This could include pulling out a little journal
Speaker 3: or having some a notesap on your phone of Okay,
Speaker 3: why do I want to buy this? What will it
Speaker 3: add to my life? Will it add clutter or will
Speaker 3: it add value? So I actually need this? What are
Speaker 3: you saying no to by purchasing that item? And then
Speaker 3: maybe just setting up different accounts where your money goes
Speaker 3: in and spending comes out. So just friction wherever you
Speaker 3: can think of what type of friction can I add
Speaker 3: to my impulse spending that creates more of a pause
Speaker 3: and allows me to be a bit more intentional about
Speaker 3: this is going to be helpful.
Speaker 1: Here's a horrible idea that nobody should do. Okay, if
Speaker 1: you have the option of get a picture on your
Speaker 1: debit or credit card, instead of putting a cute picture
Speaker 1: of your kids or your dog, put an embarrassing picture
Speaker 1: that you don't want people to see. That you would
Speaker 1: be really embarrassed if people saw. So you don't want
Speaker 1: to take out your card.
Speaker 3: To pay for things? Is straight off the dome. Yeah,
Speaker 3: this is holious and brilliant. I mean, you don't do
Speaker 3: it because you don't want it. You don't want to
Speaker 3: create like shame around sunding. But this is very funny
Speaker 3: to me. I mean that would add friction. Don't do it.
Speaker 3: Do you want to go down this rabbit hole?
Speaker 1: Okay. The last one on this for me is get
Speaker 1: the system to work for you. You are entitled to
Speaker 1: have the system work for you. I'd like to remind
Speaker 1: you that you are the one with the money, and
Speaker 1: the companies and the bank they need your money. So
Speaker 1: you're the one with the power. So make the systems
Speaker 1: work for you, and you are entitled to have them
Speaker 1: work for you, even if you're not thinking quote unquote
Speaker 1: in the typical way. So we're using the instant notifications,
Speaker 1: we're using real time balance updates, we're using the upcoming
Speaker 1: payment reminders. We are setting money aside automatically every month
Speaker 1: for sinking funds. Those are very important if you have
Speaker 1: a neurodivergence and your emergency fund, if you're still funding that.
Speaker 1: And we are using web chat features. We are avoiding
Speaker 1: phone calls because we all know if you have a
Speaker 1: phone call to make, you are not making it. And
Speaker 1: that's I'm talking about me. If there's a phone call
Speaker 1: to be made, it will never get done. It will
Speaker 1: never get me.
Speaker 3: Do you have a quick chat it can resolve your problems.
Speaker 1: Yes, we are utilizing web chat features. And we are
Speaker 1: using visuals. We are using Google sheets, the spending wheels
Speaker 1: and the charts and the line graphs.
Speaker 3: That's where it's coloring.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where like the Monarch money can come in
Speaker 1: helpful because it has a beautiful user interface. We are
Speaker 1: using these things to our advantage. We're not trying to
Speaker 1: fit in to the system, making the system work for us.
Speaker 3: Yes, and again I will call us back to what
Speaker 3: has worked for you in the past, even unrelated to money,
Speaker 3: where have you experienced Oh man, there were barriers there,
Speaker 3: but I moved through it. Here's how I implemented xyz.
Speaker 3: It's most likely going to be very similar when it
Speaker 3: comes to your money. Was it friends who were helpful?
Speaker 3: Was it learning in a different way than yeah, auditorially
Speaker 3: or visually, you name it. Okay. The last and final
Speaker 3: thing in here that we're going to highlight is review
Speaker 3: review review, review, meaning reflect, look back on what has
Speaker 3: happened in the previous week, couple weeks, month. Making time
Speaker 3: in your day somewhere on the calendar to be able
Speaker 3: to reflect and see what went well where you want
Speaker 3: to course correct is going to be vital in moving
Speaker 3: forward and continuing on some of the lovely progress that
Speaker 3: you're experiencing. So some of the questions you can ask
Speaker 3: yourself is did I save more than I spent? Or
Speaker 3: did I spend more than I saved? And what went
Speaker 3: on there? What do I see happened? Again, avoiding some
Speaker 3: of those why questions we've been talking about lately on
Speaker 3: the podcast, Avoiding asking ourselves why that puts us on
Speaker 3: the defense, but instead continue being curious about yourself, the
Speaker 3: things that make you unique, the things that give you
Speaker 3: that extra edge, because there's something in there, there's some
Speaker 3: secret power and special sauce that can be implemented to
Speaker 3: help you. Are there any purchases that I made now
Speaker 3: that I didn't I didn't feel worth it? And how
Speaker 3: can I create some more friction in the future to
Speaker 3: make sure that doesn't happen? And one that I love?
Speaker 3: What can I celebrate that I did well? And text
Speaker 3: somebody yes to your body is calling your bill of
Speaker 3: the week?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Yes, call your bill of the week.
Speaker 1: That's what we're here for. If you don't have a
Speaker 1: buddy to text, you need to be calling us because
Speaker 1: we are your buddies, yes, or your budgeting buddies.
Speaker 3: And then one more question, what did I learn about myself?
Speaker 3: Because that's what this whole journey is all about, is
Speaker 3: learning about ourselves and managing ourselves well in the midst
Speaker 3: of our reality and circumstances. So the more you are
Speaker 3: equipped with knowledge about yourself, the better you will be
Speaker 3: able to respond to whatever barriers, challenges, celebrations, excitements come
Speaker 3: your way. When you have a true knowledge of yourself
Speaker 3: and you're not just trying to fit this round peg
Speaker 3: into a square hole that is not you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And if you have someone around you with a neurodivergence
Speaker 1: that you love or just have met before I don't
Speaker 1: know that you've interacted with, and you see something in
Speaker 1: their power that they should be celebrating, then tell them
Speaker 1: because it may be hard for them to accept or
Speaker 1: recognize or see what they need to be celebrating. So
Speaker 1: if you see something that somebody needs to be celebrating,
Speaker 1: especially if it's someone with a neurodivergence working in their power,
Speaker 1: please tell them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, point these things out in your friends, because
Speaker 3: that's gonna go a long way. We all love encouragement,
Speaker 3: you know the type of encouragement that I love.
Speaker 1: And I'm just so inspired and I hope that we
Speaker 1: get an influx of these after this episode.
Speaker 3: The bill of the week.
Speaker 2: That's right, it's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 2: entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name
Speaker 2: is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage, Maybe your
Speaker 2: car died and you're happy to not have to pay
Speaker 2: that bill anymore. That's bills, butffalo bills, Bill Clion, this
Speaker 2: is the bill of the week.
Speaker 4: Hi, Jen, Hi, Jill, This is Becky from Madison, Wisconsin.
Speaker 4: I just wanted to share my bill of the week.
Speaker 4: So my insurance bill came due. This would be my
Speaker 4: annual homeowners and umbrella insurance as well as six months
Speaker 4: of my car insurance. It was one five and forty
Speaker 4: one dollars. But because I had a sinking fund, I
Speaker 4: already had it budgeted for. But because I paid attention
Speaker 4: to my credit card offers, specifically my American Express, I
Speaker 4: got two hundred and seventy four dollars back in statement
Speaker 4: credit because of an offer that they had going. So
Speaker 4: it's pretty to pay this bill. Thanks guys, love your podcast.
Speaker 1: Wow, you know I also that's the thing about the
Speaker 1: credit card rewards is so we have to buy cabinets here,
Speaker 1: and I'm actually very excited to buy them because I
Speaker 1: know it's gonna get my minimum spend and I'm going
Speaker 1: to get a Southwest Companion pass. So great bills we're
Speaker 1: excited to pay.
Speaker 3: Yes, so amazing, And this Becky speaks to you just
Speaker 3: being on top of it and aware of this bill
Speaker 3: that's coming up, having already prepared for it, having a
Speaker 3: sinking fund for it. For those of you who don't know.
Speaker 3: That's just a place where we can set money aside
Speaker 3: within preferably a high yield savings account where a money
Speaker 3: can earn money, and it's for some of your short
Speaker 3: term goals. So the money is meant to be spent.
Speaker 3: It's not like a retirement investment. It's a we are
Speaker 3: saving up for XYZ and so for you, one of
Speaker 3: those sinking funds for this insurance. So already having the
Speaker 3: money for it does Oh, that is such a good feeling,
Speaker 3: like I'm prepared. And then when you can stack on
Speaker 3: stack this goodness of having a statement credit for that
Speaker 3: type of bill and take advantage of it, It's so
Speaker 3: beautiful and I'm so excited. Woo. If any of you
Speaker 3: listening have a bill you want to submit, it has
Speaker 3: to do with sinking funds, if it has to do
Speaker 3: with statement credits, if it has to do with what
Speaker 3: life was like being Bill?
Speaker 1: What was what was life like when you were Bill?
Speaker 3: Because it Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash Bill, leave
Speaker 3: us your bill, and now it's time for my being.
Speaker 1: Around show you in today's vulnerability round. What do you
Speaker 1: struggle with the most when it comes to managing your money?
Speaker 1: I think this is where you and I are the
Speaker 1: compl menory opposites. Yes, we have so much in common,
Speaker 1: and this is where we differ.
Speaker 3: Not right here, so Joe, right, baby girl. It is
Speaker 3: a hyper focus for me. Ah, yep, explain your hyper focus,
Speaker 3: like what do you okay? And that can ebb and flow.
Speaker 3: I do notice that I will focus more on my
Speaker 3: money when I feel strained in finances, whether that means
Speaker 3: we're just hemorrhaging a lot of cash because of renovations
Speaker 3: or you know, some other thing that's happening, or like
Speaker 3: recently when we took a bit of a pay cut,
Speaker 3: so just and part of that is necessary. I do
Speaker 3: need to be more on top of it when there's
Speaker 3: not as much margin. But I think it can cause
Speaker 3: me to want to look at my money and obsess
Speaker 3: over it more than what's actually necessary. And so what
Speaker 3: that means for me is maybe looking at my bank
Speaker 3: accounts or like logging my transactions more regularly than I
Speaker 3: need to, and so I will try my darndest to
Speaker 3: put certain dates to it. So me looking at my
Speaker 3: transactions and kind of balancing my book so to speak,
Speaker 3: and moving money around can happen every two weeks that's plenty.
Speaker 3: So when I start to see myself kind of getting
Speaker 3: into these accounts more regularly, I'll just put it in
Speaker 3: my calendar, like I've got a day that I'm going
Speaker 3: to do this. It doesn't need to happen now, there's
Speaker 3: not much that's gonna nothing's going to move the needle.
Speaker 3: I can look at this on you know, Thursday, when
Speaker 3: the paychecks come in and most of the bills go out.
Speaker 3: So that's one of the things that has helped me.
Speaker 3: I can't say I'm always doing that perfectly, but I
Speaker 3: can tend towards hyper focus. I think I think that
Speaker 3: I'm having like more control over it or something. What
Speaker 3: about you, my exact complimentary opposite hyper ignorance.
Speaker 1: I ignore everything. I'll just go I'll go months without looking
Speaker 1: at anything financial, which is so funny funny. I will
Speaker 1: spend all day researching and writing ways to help people
Speaker 1: spend money better. And that's my passion, that's my life's work.
Speaker 1: I love that, and that I do practice in my
Speaker 1: own life. I truly do practice what I preach when
Speaker 1: it comes to frugality and spending. And I mean it's
Speaker 1: not like I'm preaching something that I don't practice with budgeting.
Speaker 1: I am very open and transparent that it's just I
Speaker 1: it's a namesnxiety for me, but there's more of an
Speaker 1: anxiety of not checking it. So I have this like
Speaker 1: dual anxiety.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you manage that?
Speaker 1: We have a big chunk of money in our checking account,
Speaker 1: way more than we should. Part of that is we
Speaker 1: saved for our renovation before we started renovating, so that's
Speaker 1: a lot of that is renovation money. We also have
Speaker 1: we have a hefty emergency fund separate from that, and
Speaker 1: I will I am confident that because I spend in
Speaker 1: what I value that my income will you know it'll
Speaker 1: come out in the wash, and for me personally, it does.
Speaker 3: So I think you have figured out a way that
Speaker 3: does work for you. I think you're describing some things
Speaker 3: that you're like, Oh, maybe I wish you were different,
Speaker 3: but you're not the same as everybody else. You are
Speaker 3: your own unique individual and you've learned how to live
Speaker 3: below your means so that you don't have to be
Speaker 3: worried and focused on these things. And that didn't come
Speaker 3: easily or quickly. I mean it's been at least a
Speaker 3: decade for you of journeying through this to now be
Speaker 3: at the point where I've actually set it up so
Speaker 3: that I don't have to be looking at it all
Speaker 3: the time, because that's not something you want to be doing,
Speaker 3: and that that's a beautiful thing that you figured out
Speaker 3: how to make that work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this would be a different story if I didn't
Speaker 1: have literally tens of thousands of dollars of cushion.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that could help somebody else.
Speaker 1: I mean, there you go with you and if you're there,
Speaker 1: just I failed yourself a solid cushion to fall on.
Speaker 3: You don't like the mundane, I think you really do
Speaker 3: thrive in the kind of new idea, the thing that's
Speaker 3: going to be helpful for you for what you're doing
Speaker 3: right now, and that's beautiful. And then you figured out
Speaker 3: how to make the rest that is mundane work, like
Speaker 3: building the cushion for yourself, but then being able to
Speaker 3: figure out how to hack buying your cabinets and then
Speaker 3: get a free companion pass. And there are some beautiful
Speaker 3: ways that, like your unique expression of humanity benefits yourself,
Speaker 3: your family, me, the people listen to this podcast, So
Speaker 3: thanks so much for listening. Everyone. Many of you know
Speaker 3: that we do have a newsletter. It's called the friend
Speaker 3: Letter because of course we'd call it something fun that
Speaker 3: goes out three times a week where you can hear
Speaker 3: about what's for free that week, usually food savings tips,
Speaker 3: lifestyle hacks that will help you save money, spend better,
Speaker 3: avoid some of that impulse spending that we all kind
Speaker 3: of want to rein in a bit more. And we
Speaker 3: want to give out a shout out to one of
Speaker 3: our friends for replying to our email with this sweet email.
Speaker 3: It was about the No Spend challenge. They said, the
Speaker 3: No Spend challenge was so helpful, I am extending it
Speaker 3: another month. Thank you Liz. That Yeah, we are.
Speaker 1: Still getting through these emails of you guys from No
Speaker 1: Spend January. How helpful you found it and that you
Speaker 1: are going to try another month. That's so our power
Speaker 1: to you. We I mean, as long as you are
Speaker 1: continuing to learn about yourself and not depriving yourself for
Speaker 1: the sake of deprivation, right you do.
Speaker 3: You beware of the extremes. Yes, we don't ever want
Speaker 3: to encourage people to live in the extremes, but allow
Speaker 3: the extremes to inform you. But if it's being helpful
Speaker 3: for you right now in this season.
Speaker 1: Hurrah, Yes, let the extremes pull you into your radical middle.
Speaker 3: Oh beautiful. If you want more from us, like this
Speaker 3: friend letter, where again you get that freebies, those freebies,
Speaker 3: the saving STIPs, spending hacks, frugal friends, podcasts dot com.
Speaker 3: And if you already get the friend letter, start sharing
Speaker 3: it with your friends. There is a unique referral link
Speaker 3: at the bottom of every email that we send to you,
Speaker 3: and when you forward that to your buddies, then you
Speaker 3: get some goodies. Like one referral gets you some stickers, stickers.
Speaker 3: Five referrals gets you a tote. It gets better and
Speaker 3: better from there. No one has gotten the better and
Speaker 3: better be on the tote. But there's mugs, there's sweatshirts.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we'll see see you next week. Banks Google
Speaker 1: Friends is produced by Eric Siriani.
Speaker 3: How many people have gotten a mug? Do you know?
Speaker 3: We should probably check you out? I check every month
Speaker 3: I send out a mug, a tote.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, there's a lot of.
Speaker 3: People have gotten toe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody's done mug yet. Nobody's got mug yet. But
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who've got tots.
Speaker 3: That's awesome. I feel so great about my tote.
Speaker 1: I feel tots great about my oats. So it's because
Speaker 1: I have like two hundred of them at my house.
Speaker 3: Yes, I've been passing them out to my guests. Oh wow,
Speaker 3: they can go back to wherever they're from and support
Speaker 3: the frugal friends. Yes, and I take it to the
Speaker 3: grocery store. Mm hmmm. Yeah, someday I'm going to take
Speaker 3: it to the farmer's market because we just did an
Speaker 3: episode about that and that was very fun. Yes, inspired me.
Speaker 1: In back in May. That's back up, so we'll take
Speaker 1: it to the farmer's market.
Speaker 3: Yes, oh see you there ya