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Speaker 1: School of Humans.

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Speaker 2: Six bodies were found in Wonder Valley, California, between December

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Speaker 2: of twenty nineteen and January of twenty twenty one. Some

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Speaker 2: of the bodies in the desert, including the disappearance of

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Speaker 2: thirty seven year old single mother Erica Lloyd, started to

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Speaker 2: make local and then national news, but there were no

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Speaker 2: national news reports about James Escalante. I've been talking together

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Speaker 2: Escalante about this case, and she's been disheartened by how

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Speaker 2: little James's case has been covered compared to the others

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Speaker 2: in Wonder Valley.

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Speaker 1: They ended up doing a news broadcast out there in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. I do believe it was, and they

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Speaker 1: actually interviewed Detective Halloway, who was the detective that was

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Speaker 1: assigned to James's missing person's key, and they were talking

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Speaker 1: about the amount of people going missing out in the desert.

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Speaker 1: They mentioned Erica Lloyd, they mentioned Lauren to they mentioned

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Speaker 1: some couple that had gone missing out there. They never

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Speaker 1: made the first mention of James. It's not like he

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Speaker 1: didn't know about James. He was the detective on his caase.

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Speaker 1: Like they've made it abundantly clear to me, they're not

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Speaker 1: look in the case now. And they're not going to

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Speaker 1: Nothing has really worked for us in this We could

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Speaker 1: barely get anybody that wanted to cover his story. That's

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Speaker 1: been I mean like nobody. If you look up Eric Alloyd,

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Speaker 1: there's i mean countless coverage on her story all the

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Speaker 1: way up you know, pretty high in news coverage world.

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Speaker 1: You can't get anybody to want to touch James's face.

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Speaker 2: We're going to dive into the missing Persons report and

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Speaker 2: compare accounts from the last people who saw James to

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Speaker 2: see if we can shed more light into what really

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Speaker 2: happened out there in the desert on June twenty fifth,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five years

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Speaker 2: of making my true crime podcast, Helling Gone, I've learned

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Speaker 2: that there is no such thing as a small town

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Speaker 2: where murder never happens. I have received hundreds of messages

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Speaker 2: from people all around the country asking for help with

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Speaker 2: an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities.

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Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my

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Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us

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Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight

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Speaker 2: seven four four six one four five. That's six seven

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Speaker 2: eight seven four four six ' one four five, or

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Speaker 2: you can send us a message on Instagram at Helen Gonepod.

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Speaker 2: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. As we said last week,

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Speaker 2: people go missing in the desert under a lot of

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Speaker 2: different circumstances. One of the things that really stood out

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Speaker 2: to me about James Escalante's case is that in Wonder Valley,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the body discoveries haven't been made by

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Speaker 2: the police at all, but by one man, a cave

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Speaker 2: and mining expert named Doug Billings. Doug Billings was helping

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Speaker 2: the family of thirty seven year old Eric Lloyd, who

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Speaker 2: went missing nine days before James, and while he was

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Speaker 2: looking for Erica's car, he found James's bike. But Heather

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Speaker 2: said that not only did police know not find the bike,

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Speaker 2: but that when Doug Billings told him about the bike,

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Speaker 2: at first, they didn't seem to be interested.

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Speaker 1: He had been helping search for Eric Alloyd and he

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Speaker 1: had seen a bike out there and it has turned

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Speaker 1: out to be recording the Sherry, the bike that James

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Speaker 1: left on. It seemed out there twice. The first time

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Speaker 1: he tried to report it to the police, they said

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Speaker 1: they didn't think it was related. To Eric Alloyd's case,

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Speaker 1: and of course James had not been reported missing yet

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Speaker 1: at that point in time. Tops weren't interested at that

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Speaker 1: point because at that point they were looking for Erica

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Speaker 1: and a black car. You know, it didn't seem important

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Speaker 1: to them at the time, so he did not take

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Speaker 1: a picture at that time or anything like that. He

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Speaker 1: again found it on it's still sitting out there on

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Speaker 1: August ninth, so the day after the remains that turned

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Speaker 1: out to be James's were found, because him and his

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Speaker 1: team and went back out to that area. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's at that time they clearly weren't sure if those

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Speaker 1: were Eric Alloyd's remained and that's when he took a

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Speaker 1: picture of the bike. He locked the coordinate. He notified

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Speaker 1: the police again, but again, given the distance between where

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Speaker 1: the bike was located and where James's remains were located,

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Speaker 1: the police didn't think they were linked and left the

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Speaker 1: bike there.

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Speaker 2: Heather's family ran into Doug's team and got the picture

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Speaker 2: of the bike from him and then sent that picture

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Speaker 2: to James's girlfriend, Sherry. She said that, yes, that was

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Speaker 2: the bike that James was riding the day he disappeared.

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Speaker 2: Heather contacted law enforcement, and they finally went out to

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Speaker 2: that intersection near Highway sixty two and Shelton Road and

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Speaker 2: retrieved the red bike. But it was odd because when

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Speaker 2: Heather talked to Sherry, Sherry said that they weren't able

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Speaker 2: to go look for James because they didn't have a vehicle.

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Speaker 2: But then she would tell Heather that they went out

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Speaker 2: to talk to people, people who Heather said lived a

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Speaker 2: lot further out than the intersection where James disappeared. So

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Speaker 2: Heather was thinking, how could she get out there when

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Speaker 2: she just told Heather she didn't have transportation. Heather has

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Speaker 2: said multiple times that she's suspicious because over time, Sherry's

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Speaker 2: story appeared to keep changing.

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Speaker 1: Nothing she said had made sense. The stories have changed,

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Speaker 1: Like the main story, you know, d he got stuck

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Speaker 1: in the sand. James went out to get her this

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Speaker 1: he called, you know from this intersection. That stuff has

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Speaker 1: never changed. The times have changed. The description of the

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Speaker 1: shoes he was wearing has changed. How long it took

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Speaker 1: them to get to that intersection once he left, that's

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Speaker 1: all changed. What he was wearing, you know, like accessories

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Speaker 1: that he was wearing has changed. Things that he's owned this,

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Speaker 1: you know, all those things keep changing right, which has

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Speaker 1: been nothing but red flags for me.

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Speaker 2: Heather said that Sherry had told her two versions of

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Speaker 2: the story. They both started out the same, with James

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Speaker 2: leaving to go help their friend D, but Heather said

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Speaker 2: Sherry gave her different times. According to Heather, Sherry first

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Speaker 2: said that James went out early in the morning, around

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Speaker 2: eight thirty am, and later she said that it was

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Speaker 2: around ten or ten thirty am. In both versions, James

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Speaker 2: never reached their friend D. But in one version, according

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Speaker 2: to the Missing Persons report, Sherry told someone else that

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Speaker 2: James never reached D and took a ride to San

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Speaker 2: Bernardino and went to rehab. Finding Sherry unreliable, Heather started

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Speaker 2: talking to more people. A lot of these people are

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Speaker 2: difficult to find. We've been trying to reach out to

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Speaker 2: them in Wonder Valley and it's been challenging. A lot

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Speaker 2: of them live off the grid, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: them have changed numbers since then, and Heather found out

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Speaker 2: that James's love life was a little bit more complicated

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Speaker 2: than it seemed to be on the surface. Heather talked

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Speaker 2: to D, the woman who got stuck in the desert

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Speaker 2: and who called Sherry for help, and D told Heather

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Speaker 2: something she hadn't heard before. The story that Sherry told

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Speaker 2: was that d had gone out in the desert in

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Speaker 2: the early morning hours of June twenty fifth to go

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Speaker 2: rock Honting. That's when her car got stuck in sand.

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Speaker 2: But D filled in some more details. She told Heather

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Speaker 2: the reason she had gone out so early was because

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Speaker 2: she had been hanging out at James and Sherry's house

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Speaker 2: and they had started fighting, and she said they were

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Speaker 2: fighting about Tank. Now, remember Tank is the friend of

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Speaker 2: James and Sherry's who also lived on that same property

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Speaker 2: with them. Tank and Sherry had a history. At some

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Speaker 2: point they were romantically involved.

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Speaker 1: She told me that basically Sherry was kind of bouncings

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Speaker 1: back and forth between Tank and James, and that she

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Speaker 1: had been hanging out with them and she was really

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Speaker 1: tired of hearing James and Sherry fighting about that, and

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Speaker 1: so she left in the middle of the night, got

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Speaker 1: out there, got part, took a nap, and woke up

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Speaker 1: with the intentions of looking for rocks and fossils and

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Speaker 1: things like that. So she colected them. So that made

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Speaker 1: a little bit more sense because I was like, he's

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Speaker 1: going to go out where there's like no street lights

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Speaker 1: changing at four four foot thirty in the morning to

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Speaker 1: hunt Rock when you can't even really see them other

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Speaker 1: than your headlights in the black light. Yeah, so that

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Speaker 1: made it make a little more sense as to why

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Speaker 1: she was out there at that hour. But apparently they

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Speaker 1: were fighting and that's why it according her, that's why

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Speaker 1: that she left. She got tired of hearing it.

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Speaker 2: Heather tried to get the police to talk to more

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Speaker 2: people about James's case, but she discovered that the police

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Speaker 2: hadn't even canvassed people in the immediate area about James's disappearance.

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Speaker 1: There's only like a handful of houses right there on

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Speaker 1: that little stretch of Shelton, And I asked them specifically

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Speaker 1: multiple times between September and January, like, Hey, have you

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Speaker 1: guys gone out and questioned those people in those houses,

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Speaker 1: like if they saw James around that time, they didn't

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Speaker 1: have the bike ended up there anything. Oh, they've been questioned,

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Speaker 1: They've been questioned. Finally I asked, I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: who keeps saying they've been questioned? What questions did y'all

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Speaker 1: ask them in relation to James. That's when it came

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Speaker 1: out that oh, no, they had been questioned in relation

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Speaker 1: to Erica Lloyd, And I said, okay, so you're telling

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Speaker 1: me that y'all went out there knocking on these doors

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Speaker 1: and asked them if they have seen a thirty something

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Speaker 1: year old white girl in a black car. And you'd

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Speaker 1: think that was sent to somehow spawn them to say no.

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Speaker 1: But I saw this fifty something year old Indian man

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Speaker 1: on a red bike. Like that's not even in the

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Speaker 1: realm of the same thing. But I can tell you,

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Speaker 1: like I have the missing person's file from James's case.

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Speaker 1: It's nine pages, one sided, not too exited. Just the

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Speaker 1: amount of information I provided to law enforcement should have

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Speaker 1: been more than nine pages.

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Speaker 2: So let's look at that missing person's report. When police

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Speaker 2: talked to Sherry on October first, twenty twenty, according to

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Speaker 2: the missing Person's report, the story she told them was

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Speaker 2: again different from the one she told Heather. She said

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Speaker 2: that d called between eight and eight thirty on the

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Speaker 2: morning of June twenty fifth, and that d told her

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Speaker 2: she was stuck in her truck, not that James actually

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Speaker 2: went out at that time. Sherry told detectives that after

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Speaker 2: that she called Gary, another friend of theirs, and Gary

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Speaker 2: went out to get but Gary was unable to move

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Speaker 2: D's vehicle, and then Gary and D both showed up

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Speaker 2: at Sherry's house. She said James was there also. At

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Speaker 2: some point D went back out to where her truck was.

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Speaker 2: Then D called again at around one fifteen to one

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Speaker 2: thirty in the afternoon. That's when James put air into

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Speaker 2: the bike tires and went out to look for D.

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Speaker 2: Now again, this is still according to Sherry. Several hours later,

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Speaker 2: Tank showed up at their house. This was at around

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Speaker 2: three thirty. Then, when they realized they hadn't heard from James,

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Speaker 2: Tank went out to d to rescue her. This is

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Speaker 2: a big difference. First of all, this would mean that

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Speaker 2: instead of James going out at eight or eight thirty

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Speaker 2: in the morning, this would mean he was out in

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Speaker 2: the hottest part of the afternoon, and there appears to

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Speaker 2: be a discrepancy of several hours. There's something else in

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Speaker 2: the police report that Heather says is inconsistent. Sherry told

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Speaker 2: detectives she had contacted several people about James being missing,

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Speaker 2: including Heather Connie, who was James's legal wife, though they

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Speaker 2: hadn't been in a relationship or lived together in a

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Speaker 2: long time, and several other people. Meanwhile, none of these

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Speaker 2: people said that Sherry had contacted them. Sherry told police

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Speaker 2: that James was a heavy heroin user, that he would

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Speaker 2: use thirty to thirty five CC's per day. She said

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Speaker 2: that he used drugs to deal with various physical problems

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Speaker 2: that he had, and it's certainly possible that something happened

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Speaker 2: to James that did not involve foul play. Maybe he

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Speaker 2: was doing drugs that day, maybe he accidentally overdosed. But

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Speaker 2: if that's the case, Heather wants to know so that

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Speaker 2: she and her husband, John, and the rest of their

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Speaker 2: family can have some kind of closure. She does not

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Speaker 2: believe that that should be the automatic assumption by police

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Speaker 2: just because James had a drug habit. Police also talked

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Speaker 2: to Tank. He said he was at work when he

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00:12:56,485 --> 00:12:59,085
Speaker 2: got a call about d being stuck that day. He

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Speaker 2: said that he came to where he and James and

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Speaker 2: Sherry lived. He said that he helped James fill up

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Speaker 2: those by Sickles tires with air, and then several hours

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Speaker 2: later D and Gary showed up in Gary's truck. Then

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Speaker 2: he said they all three went out to the desert

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Speaker 2: to pull D's truck out, that they were finally able

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Speaker 2: to get it unstuck from the sand. D had a

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Speaker 2: slightly different story. She told police she left home at

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Speaker 2: around four thirty am to go rock hunting near Shelton

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Speaker 2: Road in Highway sixty two. Then she said that around

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Speaker 2: five thirty am, her truck got stuck on a barrier

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Speaker 2: somewhere south of Highway sixty two. She described it as

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Speaker 2: being two streets away from Shelton Road. Since it was

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Speaker 2: still dark, she said she decided to wait it out.

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Speaker 2: She took a nap in her truck, and then she

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Speaker 2: woke up at six am. That's when she called Gary

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Speaker 2: and Sherry for help. She said that Gary came out

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Speaker 2: first and tried for around four hours to pull the

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Speaker 2: truck out. He was there by himself, but he didn't

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Speaker 2: have any luck. By this point, D said she was overheated,

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Speaker 2: so she rode with Gary in his vehicle back to

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Speaker 2: Tank's trailer to lie down, which was on the same

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00:14:07,085 --> 00:14:10,765
Speaker 2: property where James and Sherry lived. D said that Gary

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Speaker 2: and Tank left there and went to pull her truck

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Speaker 2: out without her. Now again, if you notice, it's the

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00:14:17,925 --> 00:14:21,365
Speaker 2: same general story, but if you look closer, some very

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00:14:21,445 --> 00:14:26,045
Speaker 2: important details have been changed because the story that D

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00:14:26,245 --> 00:14:29,965
Speaker 2: told the police was that she was calling Sherry at

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Speaker 2: around one thirty that afternoon. Sherry did put her on

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Speaker 2: with James. James said he would go out there to

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Speaker 2: help her get the truck unstuck. But then the story

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00:14:38,965 --> 00:14:42,285
Speaker 2: seems to make even less sense because D said that

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Speaker 2: on that three way call, she was honking her horn.

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00:14:45,845 --> 00:14:48,165
Speaker 2: She heard him say I hear the horn, but he

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00:14:48,245 --> 00:14:51,605
Speaker 2: never showed up, she said. She later assumed that James

260
00:14:51,725 --> 00:14:54,125
Speaker 2: was angry, that he didn't want to deal with it anymore,

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00:14:54,245 --> 00:14:56,525
Speaker 2: or maybe he just got too hot and bailed out.

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Speaker 2: But if that's true, then her others story about being

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Speaker 2: taken back to Sherry's property to lie down can't be true.

264
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Speaker 2: So which one is it? Where was D? Was she

265
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Speaker 2: back at Sherry's trailer or was she back at her truck?

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Speaker 2: And if so, who drove her there? These stories don't match,

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Speaker 2: yet law enforcement did not seem to ask too many

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Speaker 2: questions about these inconsistencies. Police reached out to Gary. His

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Speaker 2: story is that he was at home that day. He

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Speaker 2: said he lived near Sherry in Wonder Valley. He said

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Speaker 2: he got the call between around eleven and noon. He

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Speaker 2: said Sherry called him, not d. D drove a Champagne

273
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Speaker 2: colored Ford Expedition. He went out to the desert and

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Speaker 2: was unable to get the vehicle out, So by that

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Speaker 2: point his story seems to match D's. He said she

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00:15:47,525 --> 00:15:49,885
Speaker 2: was super dehydrated. He took her to Sherry's house so

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Speaker 2: that she could lie down. While he was at Sherry's house,

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Speaker 2: he picked up Tank, who again lived there, in a trailer.

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Speaker 2: They went back out to the vehicle and got it unstuck.

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Speaker 2: So in Gary's version of the story, only he and

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00:16:03,845 --> 00:16:07,005
Speaker 2: Tank are out there with the truck. After they got

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Speaker 2: it unstuck, He said, Tank drove D's car and he

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Speaker 2: drove his own truck. He said when they got back

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00:16:12,645 --> 00:16:15,925
Speaker 2: to Sherry's it was around three to four pm. Gary

285
00:16:16,045 --> 00:16:19,005
Speaker 2: said he never saw James that day. He said he

286
00:16:19,085 --> 00:16:21,245
Speaker 2: never met James. He had no idea who he was,

287
00:16:21,685 --> 00:16:24,485
Speaker 2: and he had no idea that James had gone out

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00:16:24,525 --> 00:16:29,485
Speaker 2: to assist D on a bike. Police executed a search

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00:16:29,525 --> 00:16:32,125
Speaker 2: warrant to get Sherry's phone records, but they hit a

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00:16:32,165 --> 00:16:35,005
Speaker 2: wall there because Sherry at that point no longer had

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00:16:35,045 --> 00:16:38,285
Speaker 2: the same phone or a phone plan. She told police

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00:16:38,325 --> 00:16:41,085
Speaker 2: the phone she had at the time James disappeared, was

293
00:16:41,085 --> 00:16:43,925
Speaker 2: stolen from the Tortoise Rock Casino. That she had a

294
00:16:43,925 --> 00:16:46,525
Speaker 2: new phone and no access to the old account, so

295
00:16:46,605 --> 00:16:49,565
Speaker 2: it seems like police didn't pursue it any further. So

296
00:16:49,685 --> 00:16:52,885
Speaker 2: the phone appeared to be another dead inn. But then

297
00:16:52,925 --> 00:16:55,925
Speaker 2: Heather talked to Detective Halloway, the investigator in charge of

298
00:16:55,925 --> 00:16:59,445
Speaker 2: the case. Detective Halloway was able to do a data

299
00:16:59,525 --> 00:17:02,125
Speaker 2: dump of the calls and text messages for the month

300
00:17:02,165 --> 00:17:04,925
Speaker 2: of June from James's phone logs, and we have seen

301
00:17:04,965 --> 00:17:08,405
Speaker 2: a copy of those phone logs now. One thing to

302
00:17:08,485 --> 00:17:11,285
Speaker 2: note is that almost all of the calls and texts

303
00:17:11,285 --> 00:17:15,165
Speaker 2: on James's phone are incoming. When he has an outgoing text,

304
00:17:15,205 --> 00:17:18,885
Speaker 2: it's usually one or two words, so Heather's comments about

305
00:17:18,965 --> 00:17:22,885
Speaker 2: James being a man a few words appears to be true.

306
00:17:22,925 --> 00:17:25,845
Speaker 2: Almost all of the calls are very short in duration,

307
00:17:26,125 --> 00:17:29,325
Speaker 2: just a few seconds, maybe up to a minute. But

308
00:17:29,445 --> 00:17:33,565
Speaker 2: we did notice something else, James was talking to other women.

309
00:17:41,285 --> 00:17:45,565
Speaker 2: Heather said that Detective Holloway told her that he'd taken

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Speaker 2: a look at the phone records and that Sherry's phone

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00:17:48,125 --> 00:17:52,765
Speaker 2: records basically matched James's. Another question I have is when

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00:17:52,885 --> 00:17:56,005
Speaker 2: did the detective actually see and compare those phone records,

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Speaker 2: because I thought he told Heather that Sherry didn't have

314
00:17:59,445 --> 00:18:03,245
Speaker 2: the account anymore. Heather said that she was told since

315
00:18:03,285 --> 00:18:06,285
Speaker 2: everyone basically admitted to being out there in the desert,

316
00:18:06,365 --> 00:18:08,805
Speaker 2: there was no need to subpoena any more phone records

317
00:18:09,165 --> 00:18:11,605
Speaker 2: because it appeared on the surface that the story about

318
00:18:11,605 --> 00:18:15,925
Speaker 2: the three way call was true. James's incoming text do

319
00:18:16,085 --> 00:18:20,365
Speaker 2: show that shortly after nine am, James was receiving texts

320
00:18:20,365 --> 00:18:24,085
Speaker 2: from Sherry, first a location at seventy six fifteen Shelton

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Speaker 2: Road in twenty nine Palms. Then Sherry texted him I

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00:18:28,125 --> 00:18:30,285
Speaker 2: gave her your number for her to call you, so

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Speaker 2: answer your phone. Then another one saying my location. The

324
00:18:35,245 --> 00:18:40,405
Speaker 2: final incoming text came from D and Heather says that

325
00:18:40,445 --> 00:18:44,205
Speaker 2: the address that she texted was not right at that intersection.

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00:18:44,565 --> 00:18:49,005
Speaker 2: It was the address of a private home. So what

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00:18:49,205 --> 00:18:53,285
Speaker 2: could D and potentially James have been doing at someone

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00:18:53,285 --> 00:18:57,645
Speaker 2: else's home and was that homeowner? Ever questioned? I took

329
00:18:57,645 --> 00:19:00,525
Speaker 2: a look at James's phone logs from the days before

330
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Speaker 2: he disappeared to try and understand what was going on

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Speaker 2: in his life. The night before, on June twenty fourth,

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00:19:07,245 --> 00:19:09,765
Speaker 2: there was a text from Sherry just after ten PM,

333
00:19:10,245 --> 00:19:15,005
Speaker 2: asking you planning on staying out all night. James replied no.

334
00:19:16,245 --> 00:19:20,325
Speaker 2: Sherry also texted him earlier that day saying that Nancy

335
00:19:20,445 --> 00:19:22,445
Speaker 2: James's X was trying to get a hold of him.

336
00:19:23,005 --> 00:19:25,765
Speaker 2: She had been looking for him regarding James moving some

337
00:19:25,805 --> 00:19:29,205
Speaker 2: of his stuff off of her property. So James did

338
00:19:29,285 --> 00:19:32,085
Speaker 2: have some conflict in his love life. But on the surface,

339
00:19:32,405 --> 00:19:34,725
Speaker 2: it does look like James was out in the desert

340
00:19:35,285 --> 00:19:39,285
Speaker 2: looking for d James's phone records showed that he did

341
00:19:39,325 --> 00:19:42,565
Speaker 2: get an incoming call from Sherry. The duration was twenty

342
00:19:42,565 --> 00:19:44,605
Speaker 2: two seconds at nine to twenty three in the morning.

343
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Speaker 2: Then there were three more calls from Sherry at nine

344
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Speaker 2: twenty five, nine thirty five, and nine forty nine. None

345
00:19:51,165 --> 00:19:55,645
Speaker 2: of them went through after that nothing. This would seem

346
00:19:55,685 --> 00:19:58,005
Speaker 2: to be very out of character for James, just based

347
00:19:58,045 --> 00:20:00,645
Speaker 2: on looking at this spreadsheet of his calls and texts

348
00:20:00,645 --> 00:20:05,045
Speaker 2: and looking for patterns, because yes, most of James's calls

349
00:20:05,085 --> 00:20:08,245
Speaker 2: were very shortened duration, but there were multiple incoming and

350
00:20:08,325 --> 00:20:11,725
Speaker 2: outgoing calls every single day, the line's share of them

351
00:20:11,765 --> 00:20:17,325
Speaker 2: were to Sherry, and then there was absolutely nothing at all. Also,

352
00:20:17,725 --> 00:20:21,005
Speaker 2: the time when Sherry was calling James. That was much

353
00:20:21,045 --> 00:20:24,485
Speaker 2: earlier than Sherry told detectives he went out. And also

354
00:20:24,805 --> 00:20:27,685
Speaker 2: it's odd that there are absolutely no messages or calls

355
00:20:27,685 --> 00:20:31,445
Speaker 2: after that, not one text asking where James is, Is

356
00:20:31,485 --> 00:20:35,205
Speaker 2: he okay? When is he coming back? I feel weird

357
00:20:35,285 --> 00:20:39,085
Speaker 2: about going through James's phone records because if someone has

358
00:20:39,125 --> 00:20:42,085
Speaker 2: a complicated or messy love life, I really hate to

359
00:20:42,165 --> 00:20:46,365
Speaker 2: invade their privacy. Unfortunately, it's really a crucial step in

360
00:20:46,405 --> 00:20:49,405
Speaker 2: figuring out what's going on. We do know he was

361
00:20:49,445 --> 00:20:52,325
Speaker 2: talking to women other than Sherry. One of them was

362
00:20:52,365 --> 00:20:56,245
Speaker 2: an ex girlfriend named Nancy. Nancy told police she last

363
00:20:56,285 --> 00:20:58,645
Speaker 2: talked to James in June when they argued about him

364
00:20:58,685 --> 00:21:01,525
Speaker 2: moving a trailer off her property, and that matches what

365
00:21:01,565 --> 00:21:05,205
Speaker 2: we've seen in the text and phone records. But there

366
00:21:05,245 --> 00:21:09,125
Speaker 2: were other rumors going around after James disappeared. One was

367
00:21:09,125 --> 00:21:11,765
Speaker 2: that someone had put a hit out on James, and

368
00:21:11,845 --> 00:21:15,405
Speaker 2: that rumor intensified when something else was found on James's phone.

369
00:21:15,885 --> 00:21:19,325
Speaker 2: Apparently there was an image on the phone. There was

370
00:21:19,365 --> 00:21:22,845
Speaker 2: a woman who, according to Heather, is the girlfriend of

371
00:21:22,885 --> 00:21:26,565
Speaker 2: a guy who knew James. This guy has a long

372
00:21:26,605 --> 00:21:30,565
Speaker 2: criminal record. Police talked to this woman and She told

373
00:21:30,685 --> 00:21:33,485
Speaker 2: investigators that she had seen James years ago, but that

374
00:21:33,525 --> 00:21:36,045
Speaker 2: she had not seen him in a long time. She

375
00:21:36,205 --> 00:21:39,085
Speaker 2: confirmed that the photos on the phone were hers. She

376
00:21:39,245 --> 00:21:41,565
Speaker 2: said she had no idea why they were there, how

377
00:21:41,605 --> 00:21:44,085
Speaker 2: they got there, or why you would have them. She

378
00:21:44,205 --> 00:21:46,805
Speaker 2: said she did not know James like that a guess,

379
00:21:46,885 --> 00:21:50,845
Speaker 2: meaning she didn't know him intimately. Police talked to another

380
00:21:50,925 --> 00:21:54,885
Speaker 2: man who, according to rumors, had been asked by this

381
00:21:54,925 --> 00:21:59,285
Speaker 2: woman's boyfriend to remove someone from a property, presumably meaning

382
00:21:59,325 --> 00:22:02,165
Speaker 2: to take James out. But when this guy was questioned

383
00:22:02,205 --> 00:22:04,965
Speaker 2: by police and asked if he had had anyone ask

384
00:22:05,045 --> 00:22:08,885
Speaker 2: him to removed someone, he completely denied ever having any

385
00:22:08,965 --> 00:22:13,045
Speaker 2: part in anything like that. There's something else that's interesting

386
00:22:13,125 --> 00:22:16,245
Speaker 2: in this missing person's report because one of the people

387
00:22:16,285 --> 00:22:20,005
Speaker 2: who police questioned was a guy named Christian. Remember Erica

388
00:22:20,125 --> 00:22:22,725
Speaker 2: Lloyd wrote in her journal and told people she was

389
00:22:22,765 --> 00:22:26,045
Speaker 2: camping in Joshua Tree with two men, James and Christian.

390
00:22:27,125 --> 00:22:30,605
Speaker 2: Heather still wonders if these mystery men could have been

391
00:22:30,725 --> 00:22:35,005
Speaker 2: James Esclante and his friend Christian, who was questioned by police.

392
00:22:35,165 --> 00:22:38,365
Speaker 2: Detectives did talk to Christian, but it's just a couple

393
00:22:38,405 --> 00:22:41,565
Speaker 2: of lines in the report. Police asked Christian if he

394
00:22:41,605 --> 00:22:44,565
Speaker 2: had ever gone camping with James or Erica Lloyd. He

395
00:22:44,685 --> 00:22:48,565
Speaker 2: said that he hadn't. There were a few more things

396
00:22:48,605 --> 00:22:51,765
Speaker 2: found at that intersection other than the bike that could

397
00:22:51,805 --> 00:22:55,205
Speaker 2: be potential clues. It turned out Doug Billings found more

398
00:22:55,245 --> 00:22:57,885
Speaker 2: than a red bike out there at the intersection of

399
00:22:57,965 --> 00:23:00,925
Speaker 2: Danby and a Boy Road, near where the bike was found,

400
00:23:01,005 --> 00:23:03,685
Speaker 2: in less than a mile from where James lived. Doug

401
00:23:03,685 --> 00:23:07,565
Speaker 2: found drug paraphernalia in straps that you use to tie

402
00:23:07,565 --> 00:23:10,765
Speaker 2: off your arms to inject drugs, and a water bottle

403
00:23:10,885 --> 00:23:13,565
Speaker 2: and a half full bottle of phana, And there was

404
00:23:13,605 --> 00:23:15,605
Speaker 2: something else out there. There was a box for a

405
00:23:15,645 --> 00:23:18,565
Speaker 2: digital scale, which a lot of drug dealers use. So

406
00:23:18,725 --> 00:23:21,965
Speaker 2: I'm wondering what if James went out there to make

407
00:23:22,005 --> 00:23:24,685
Speaker 2: a deal or saw a deal in progress and something

408
00:23:24,725 --> 00:23:29,125
Speaker 2: went wrong. There were only thirteen photos taken of James's body.

409
00:23:29,685 --> 00:23:32,485
Speaker 2: The pocket knife that the deputy found was entered into

410
00:23:32,485 --> 00:23:36,045
Speaker 2: evidence in the Sheriff's department and booked into the property room,

411
00:23:36,445 --> 00:23:39,445
Speaker 2: but according to Heather, it was never tested for fingerprints,

412
00:23:39,885 --> 00:23:43,365
Speaker 2: and the mysterious stains that the deputy noted weren't tested either.

413
00:23:44,805 --> 00:23:49,125
Speaker 2: James Escalante's case seems to be stalled. Heather wants to

414
00:23:49,165 --> 00:23:53,285
Speaker 2: make sure that James is not forgotten. Meanwhile, Erica Lloyd's

415
00:23:53,285 --> 00:23:56,605
Speaker 2: family is trying to do the same thing. David Krow

416
00:23:56,725 --> 00:23:59,845
Speaker 2: and Tila Campbell were both arrested in charge with stealing

417
00:24:00,005 --> 00:24:03,525
Speaker 2: Erica's car, which may have indirectly led to her death

418
00:24:03,605 --> 00:24:06,245
Speaker 2: since they moved it from the spot where she probably wrecked,

419
00:24:06,565 --> 00:24:09,405
Speaker 2: which meant that rescuers were looking in the wrong place.

420
00:24:10,445 --> 00:24:15,285
Speaker 2: David made a plea deal, but Tela's case continues. Erica's mother,

421
00:24:15,405 --> 00:24:18,565
Speaker 2: Ruth Lloyd, continues to post updates about the case. She

422
00:24:18,645 --> 00:24:21,845
Speaker 2: wrote quote. Her initial bail was a million dollars back

423
00:24:21,845 --> 00:24:24,645
Speaker 2: in June of twenty twenty one. Since then, she has

424
00:24:24,685 --> 00:24:28,525
Speaker 2: had over twenty four scheduled court dates. The first several years,

425
00:24:28,805 --> 00:24:31,845
Speaker 2: we had deputy district attorneys that were very familiar with

426
00:24:31,965 --> 00:24:35,445
Speaker 2: Eric's case, but as the years slide by, our fears

427
00:24:35,485 --> 00:24:38,525
Speaker 2: and concerns are that Eric's case will be lost in

428
00:24:38,565 --> 00:24:41,285
Speaker 2: the mire of just another case out there, a candle

429
00:24:41,325 --> 00:24:45,085
Speaker 2: in the wind end. Quote. Erica's family are asking people

430
00:24:45,125 --> 00:24:48,285
Speaker 2: who want to help to write letters to the San

431
00:24:48,325 --> 00:24:52,565
Speaker 2: Bernardino District Attorney's office. Heather Escalante and her husband John

432
00:24:52,645 --> 00:24:56,325
Speaker 2: continue in their fight to understand what happened to James

433
00:24:56,725 --> 00:24:59,205
Speaker 2: during what should have been a fifteen minute bike ride

434
00:24:59,485 --> 00:25:02,845
Speaker 2: and whine no one reported him missing. Heather is no

435
00:25:02,925 --> 00:25:05,685
Speaker 2: longer in contact with Sherry or d And and has

436
00:25:05,725 --> 00:25:08,485
Speaker 2: been unable to speak to Tank or Gary, the other

437
00:25:08,525 --> 00:25:12,565
Speaker 2: two people involved in the story. There's something else that

438
00:25:12,685 --> 00:25:16,165
Speaker 2: haunts Heather. What Sherry said about James's ring.

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00:25:16,885 --> 00:25:18,605
Speaker 1: So one of the first things she said to my

440
00:25:18,685 --> 00:25:23,085
Speaker 1: husband after apologizing profusely, was that she told my husband

441
00:25:23,525 --> 00:25:26,485
Speaker 1: James gave me a ring and told me he wanted

442
00:25:26,525 --> 00:25:28,645
Speaker 1: me to give it to you. She was like, I'm

443
00:25:28,645 --> 00:25:30,765
Speaker 1: currently wearing it. I'm gonna wear it until I can

444
00:25:31,085 --> 00:25:34,165
Speaker 1: give it you in person, and said she had some

445
00:25:34,245 --> 00:25:37,725
Speaker 1: other personal belongings of James's to give this John and

446
00:25:37,765 --> 00:25:39,325
Speaker 1: then said, you know, I'm so sorry. I'm the one

447
00:25:39,365 --> 00:25:42,085
Speaker 1: who sent him out there to help her, which she's

448
00:25:42,165 --> 00:25:45,485
Speaker 1: changed that as well later in multiple stories she said

449
00:25:45,525 --> 00:25:48,205
Speaker 1: she didn't send him out there. The thing that struck

450
00:25:48,245 --> 00:25:51,205
Speaker 1: me with the ring multiple things. One, if she didn't

451
00:25:51,245 --> 00:25:53,685
Speaker 1: know us and we didn't know her prior to this,

452
00:25:53,805 --> 00:25:56,445
Speaker 1: why would James give her anything to get to my husband?

453
00:25:56,485 --> 00:25:59,605
Speaker 1: He had my husband's phone number, he could have easily

454
00:25:59,645 --> 00:26:02,125
Speaker 1: just been like, Hey, John, I want to send you

455
00:26:02,205 --> 00:26:04,645
Speaker 1: something fun. What's you know? Give me your address I

456
00:26:04,645 --> 00:26:07,365
Speaker 1: can mail it to you. Not only that, but he

457
00:26:07,525 --> 00:26:10,325
Speaker 1: was still in contact with my husband's ex and they

458
00:26:10,405 --> 00:26:13,685
Speaker 1: had a son together who at that time was living

459
00:26:13,685 --> 00:26:16,805
Speaker 1: with us, So we obviously had contact with her because

460
00:26:16,845 --> 00:26:19,165
Speaker 1: of our son, and she was sending things out here

461
00:26:19,205 --> 00:26:22,525
Speaker 1: pretty regularly for him, and James was aware of that.

462
00:26:22,605 --> 00:26:24,045
Speaker 1: So if he was going to give it to anybody

463
00:26:24,125 --> 00:26:25,525
Speaker 1: out there to give to John, I feel like it

464
00:26:25,525 --> 00:26:29,445
Speaker 1: would have been her. Yeah. Like so nothing about that

465
00:26:29,485 --> 00:26:33,485
Speaker 1: made sense, right, No, No, So that one automatically struck

466
00:26:33,525 --> 00:26:35,925
Speaker 1: me as odd, and then the ring thing does get

467
00:26:36,365 --> 00:26:40,965
Speaker 1: odder later shortly after there, we actually ended up leaving

468
00:26:41,005 --> 00:26:42,965
Speaker 1: the next day. No one knew we were coming. My

469
00:26:43,045 --> 00:26:44,925
Speaker 1: husband and I flew out to California and stay for

470
00:26:44,925 --> 00:26:46,845
Speaker 1: a few days, trying to get some things through the

471
00:26:46,885 --> 00:26:49,165
Speaker 1: coroner's office so that we could find out if a

472
00:26:49,205 --> 00:26:52,085
Speaker 1: body that was found out there near that area on

473
00:26:52,165 --> 00:26:55,285
Speaker 1: August eighth was James's, which it actually turned out it

474
00:26:55,405 --> 00:26:58,365
Speaker 1: was his. But when we got there, we called her

475
00:26:58,445 --> 00:27:00,205
Speaker 1: that same day and we're like, hey, we're in town.

476
00:27:01,165 --> 00:27:03,925
Speaker 1: Can we meet with you so that we can get

477
00:27:03,925 --> 00:27:06,405
Speaker 1: some things of James's out of histy things like that

478
00:27:06,925 --> 00:27:08,445
Speaker 1: to meet her? And Tank met us out in the

479
00:27:08,485 --> 00:27:11,685
Speaker 1: middle of the desert, said that they were having some

480
00:27:11,725 --> 00:27:14,165
Speaker 1: car trouble and so Tank was going to need to

481
00:27:14,205 --> 00:27:17,005
Speaker 1: get their vehicle back to their place. Could Marry just

482
00:27:17,085 --> 00:27:19,205
Speaker 1: ride with us for lovely adventure? And I was like,

483
00:27:19,205 --> 00:27:22,765
Speaker 1: oh yes, sure, lovely pop on it. And so, because

484
00:27:22,805 --> 00:27:23,885
Speaker 1: you know, my husband and I are in our little

485
00:27:23,885 --> 00:27:27,965
Speaker 1: rental car, he ends up at that time giving my

486
00:27:28,045 --> 00:27:30,365
Speaker 1: husband this ring, and now he's got it in his possession.

487
00:27:30,405 --> 00:27:32,445
Speaker 1: We still have it to this day now, mind you.

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00:27:32,485 --> 00:27:33,925
Speaker 1: In the beginning, I'd asked her like, well, was he

489
00:27:33,965 --> 00:27:36,885
Speaker 1: wearing any jewelry? Oh no, which was to me weird

490
00:27:36,925 --> 00:27:41,325
Speaker 1: because Dame's always word gerty. She said he wasn't, and

491
00:27:41,365 --> 00:27:44,485
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, yes, maybe less than a rush. Sure, okay,

492
00:27:44,925 --> 00:27:46,405
Speaker 1: Like I said, a few weeks after us to give

493
00:27:46,485 --> 00:27:48,925
Speaker 1: the ring to my husband, I'm messaging with her because

494
00:27:48,925 --> 00:27:50,525
Speaker 1: I found that if you asked her the same thing

495
00:27:50,605 --> 00:27:53,965
Speaker 1: multiple times, multiple different ways, and it kind of space it apart.

496
00:27:53,965 --> 00:27:56,325
Speaker 1: Her answer changes. So I was like, well, right again.

497
00:27:56,925 --> 00:27:59,245
Speaker 1: So after her again, like, well, besides his clothes, And

498
00:27:59,285 --> 00:28:01,925
Speaker 1: Sue was like, what was he wearing jeelry? Did he

499
00:28:02,005 --> 00:28:04,285
Speaker 1: have anything his pockets? Like I need everything? You can

500
00:28:04,365 --> 00:28:07,605
Speaker 1: give me this. Once she told me he was wearing jewelry,

501
00:28:07,685 --> 00:28:09,645
Speaker 1: and we started going through pictures trying to figure out,

502
00:28:09,685 --> 00:28:13,085
Speaker 1: like what story he was wearing. She tells me, oh,

503
00:28:13,125 --> 00:28:16,085
Speaker 1: these are the rings he was wearing. I look, and

504
00:28:16,165 --> 00:28:17,645
Speaker 1: one of the rings he claims he was wearing when

505
00:28:17,645 --> 00:28:19,245
Speaker 1: he went missing is the one she gave my husband.

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00:28:19,685 --> 00:28:32,485
Speaker 2: In September, Heather said that she was floored when Sherry

507
00:28:32,525 --> 00:28:34,605
Speaker 2: told her that the ring that she had given them

508
00:28:34,925 --> 00:28:37,445
Speaker 2: was one that James had supposedly been wearing when he

509
00:28:37,565 --> 00:28:40,125
Speaker 2: left the house on the day he disappeared. If that

510
00:28:40,325 --> 00:28:44,525
Speaker 2: was true, then Heather wondered, how exactly did Sherry get

511
00:28:44,525 --> 00:28:44,925
Speaker 2: that ring?

512
00:28:45,925 --> 00:28:49,325
Speaker 1: So I was like, oh, okay, this is about to

513
00:28:49,365 --> 00:28:52,325
Speaker 1: not go well. So that's kind of when her and

514
00:28:52,365 --> 00:28:55,645
Speaker 1: I really started not getting along very well at that point,

515
00:28:55,725 --> 00:29:00,285
Speaker 1: because I was like, wait a minute, no, so that

516
00:29:00,325 --> 00:29:03,005
Speaker 1: can't be Yeah, you're going to have to make that

517
00:29:03,045 --> 00:29:05,005
Speaker 1: make a lot more sense. So when I confronted her

518
00:29:05,045 --> 00:29:08,485
Speaker 1: on it, he comes back and says, oh, I must

519
00:29:08,565 --> 00:29:12,365
Speaker 1: have been mistaken about which ring it was that he

520
00:29:12,485 --> 00:29:15,565
Speaker 1: was wearing. The ring I gave your husband is a

521
00:29:15,645 --> 00:29:18,525
Speaker 1: ring that James had lost before he went missing, out

522
00:29:18,565 --> 00:29:21,245
Speaker 1: on our property that we were living at. I found

523
00:29:21,245 --> 00:29:25,565
Speaker 1: it after he went missing, and I sat in his

524
00:29:25,765 --> 00:29:30,005
Speaker 1: favorite teir and asked him what shall I do? What

525
00:29:30,085 --> 00:29:33,205
Speaker 1: shall I do with your ring? And James's spirit told

526
00:29:33,245 --> 00:29:39,485
Speaker 1: her to give it to my husband. And I was like, uh, huh, okay,

527
00:29:40,045 --> 00:29:45,765
Speaker 1: So that whole thing, clearly fighty senses were not right,

528
00:29:46,245 --> 00:29:49,125
Speaker 1: they were opining. So that was all kind of the

529
00:29:49,165 --> 00:29:51,125
Speaker 1: first stuff that I was like, Oh wait a minute,

530
00:29:51,245 --> 00:29:54,725
Speaker 1: something's really off here with her story, with things being

531
00:29:54,725 --> 00:29:56,605
Speaker 1: missing everything, something's really bad off.

532
00:29:57,445 --> 00:30:00,525
Speaker 2: Heather thought that this was bizarre, and look, I can

533
00:30:00,565 --> 00:30:02,885
Speaker 2: accept the fact some people may believe that they have

534
00:30:03,005 --> 00:30:06,765
Speaker 2: some kind of psychic premonitions. Or Sherry may have believed

535
00:30:06,765 --> 00:30:09,485
Speaker 2: that James was dead simply because he did have a

536
00:30:09,605 --> 00:30:13,285
Speaker 2: drug habit, and we know that even without drugs that

537
00:30:13,485 --> 00:30:16,845
Speaker 2: desert can be fatal. But what if something else happened?

538
00:30:17,285 --> 00:30:19,965
Speaker 2: What if James stumbled on the wrong people out there,

539
00:30:20,485 --> 00:30:23,125
Speaker 2: What if he overdosed, What if the area where he

540
00:30:23,205 --> 00:30:28,285
Speaker 2: was found wasn't his last location? But a dump sight. Sherry,

541
00:30:28,365 --> 00:30:32,125
Speaker 2: according to Heather, was talking about James in the past tense,

542
00:30:32,685 --> 00:30:35,285
Speaker 2: as if he was definitely dead, when in her mind,

543
00:30:35,325 --> 00:30:38,165
Speaker 2: he was just a missing person, a missing person who,

544
00:30:38,245 --> 00:30:40,405
Speaker 2: by the way, had a history of going off alone.

545
00:30:40,965 --> 00:30:44,045
Speaker 1: The other thing that really struck me in my husband's

546
00:30:44,045 --> 00:30:46,325
Speaker 1: first conversation with her over the phone was that when

547
00:30:46,325 --> 00:30:48,885
Speaker 1: they went to hang up that day, she said to

548
00:30:48,965 --> 00:30:51,765
Speaker 1: him right before they hung up again, this is on

549
00:30:51,765 --> 00:30:55,205
Speaker 1: September tenth, at the twenty of a missing person. He say,

550
00:30:56,085 --> 00:30:59,165
Speaker 1: let me know when your father or when his services

551
00:30:59,165 --> 00:31:03,125
Speaker 1: will be. I'd really like to attend if possible. What

552
00:31:03,285 --> 00:31:04,885
Speaker 1: services he's a missing person.

553
00:31:07,685 --> 00:31:11,445
Speaker 2: Heather wondered why, in her opinion, did Sherry seem so

554
00:31:11,525 --> 00:31:14,965
Speaker 2: sure that James was dead. Does she know more than

555
00:31:14,965 --> 00:31:18,845
Speaker 2: she's letting on. Heather doesn't want James to become just

556
00:31:18,885 --> 00:31:22,565
Speaker 2: another cautionary tale of someone lost to the desert, written

557
00:31:22,605 --> 00:31:26,845
Speaker 2: off because no one cared. Heather, John and the rest

558
00:31:26,885 --> 00:31:32,405
Speaker 2: of James Escalante's family want justice. I'm Catherine Townsend. This

559
00:31:32,605 --> 00:31:36,005
Speaker 2: is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line is

560
00:31:36,045 --> 00:31:39,085
Speaker 2: a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's

561
00:31:39,125 --> 00:31:42,205
Speaker 2: written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced by

562
00:31:42,285 --> 00:31:46,085
Speaker 2: Gabby Watts. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance.

563
00:31:46,765 --> 00:31:49,605
Speaker 2: This episode was sound designed and mixed by Noah Cameron.

564
00:31:50,045 --> 00:31:53,525
Speaker 2: Our theme song is by Ben Sleek, Executive producers of

565
00:31:53,605 --> 00:31:57,245
Speaker 2: Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and L. C. Crowley. Listen to

566
00:31:57,285 --> 00:32:00,245
Speaker 2: Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the iHeart True

567
00:32:00,245 --> 00:32:04,045
Speaker 2: Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you were interested

568
00:32:04,085 --> 00:32:06,605
Speaker 2: in seeing documents and material from the case, you can

569
00:32:06,645 --> 00:32:10,485
Speaker 2: follow the show on Instagram at Helen gonpot. If you

570
00:32:10,605 --> 00:32:12,165
Speaker 2: have a case you'd like me and my team to

571
00:32:12,165 --> 00:32:14,245
Speaker 2: look into, you can reach out to us at our

572
00:32:14,285 --> 00:32:17,325
Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight seven four

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Speaker 2: four six one four five. That's six seven eight seven

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Speaker 2: four four six one four five. School of Humans