WEBVTT - Ep69 - Lynne Ramsay / "You Were Never Really Here" 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:17.520 M M. You're listening to Playback, a Variety I Heart 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:21.520 Radio podcast. I'm your host, Variety Awards editor Chris Tapley. 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:25.120 I'm talking to Lynn Ramsey this week, director of films 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:27.480 like Rat Catcher, Morvin Caller, and we need to talk 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:30.720 about Kevin her new film as You Were Never Really Here, 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.480 which premiered at the can Film Festival almost a year ago, 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.200 where she won an award for her lean and mean screenplay. 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:38.800 We talked about the craft that went into the project, 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:40.720 from the page to the editing room, and a whole 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:58.800 lot more. So, sit tight. This is playback. I was 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.000 like to get back to eleven quot last night. They 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:04.360 made to leave about four, you know, so it's crazy 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:08.000 and you've been kind of working with this movie since 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.399 last year. Yeah, yes, let's stick it talking about it. 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:18.640 Hopefully this will be better. Let me just make sure 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:21.600 this uh directional mic, so if you're able to just 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:23.920 talk into that as much as you can here with 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:27.880 Lynn Ramsey today, the director of You Were Never Really Here, 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:30.360 which everyone should see, and we'll start talking about in 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:32.920 a moment. But I'd like to begin by mentioning that 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.360 I have a son now. He's he's two years old 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:41.080 and uh we need to talk about Kevin. Uh you know, 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:45.600 I guess just bravo for terrifying me in perpetuity, who 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:50.520 was not really sorry about that? I mean the sign 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:55.559 of well honed craft. I guess just left me. Yeah, 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.360 terrified is the word? So well, finally enough since they 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.320 get three, it all so um but at cause it 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:06.559 was one of those privable fears, you know, like, um, 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.040 I think there was some skinnings in London actually where 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.520 it was like you could take your kids along, you know, 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:17.000 and someone unfortunate mothers probably way into those cash, so 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:20.480 you channeled some of that then. Yeah, I don't know. 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:22.760 It was just like I think something in that material 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:27.320 was really you know, um hit moms you know partents, yeah, 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.360 you know, like not just moms, you know, and about 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:34.239 that fear where you know, whether you'll you know, love 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:35.840 your son, you know, like we had. It was like 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.640 in a taboo subject I guess, you know, um, not 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:45.320 just that the mortal terror of having no idea how yeah, exactly, Yeah, 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.280 but I think mine's gonna do Okay, well we'll see, 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:54.079 okay gives you what about that? Uh you know that film, 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.680 this film you were never really here Morb in color, 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:00.919 and you know, these were all taken from novels, and 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:04.560 your last you know, fully original screenplay was rat Catcher. 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.840 So I'm just curious if there is is uh, do 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:11.040 you find the process of adaptation opens more doors for 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:12.840 you as a director? Is there something? Is there like 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:16.320 an ability to invade a space more so than living 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.960 with it fully? Yeah, well, I don't really know. I 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:23.320 mean it's you know, things happening a change way, because 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:26.560 I still I love it. Originally titled Too, you know, 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.600 but rat Catcher was really kind a culmination all like 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:32.840 all my shorts and what I was doing and then 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:36.080 and you know, I was, you know, I was a 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:38.160 kind of kids out of film school, you know, and 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.240 so it was you know that the film was a 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.440 really special film to me. But all the crew and everyone, 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.960 they were all first timers, you know. And since then 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.120 the AID and the DP and stuff, you know, DP 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:51.880 parts with Timmy Boil and then and it was like 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:54.920 I think we're ready, you know, we're already green and 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.040 it so it will always be a spatial thing. And 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:59.080 I hadn't seen that film for twenty years unless so 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.520 like last year a f I and it was a 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:05.240 bunch of students, so she was kind of really a 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:09.280 lovely experience, you know. Um, but yeah, in terms of adaptations, 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:12.360 it's just I thing Morvin Caller came along. It was 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:15.840 I thought it was really ir reverend like the character. 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.920 It was like, um, the writer kind of kills himself 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.920 off in the book, you know. And then I met 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:24.600 Samanthel Morton, so she, you know, who saw you were 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.480 never really here a couple of weeks ago and described 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:30.960 it as a She said, it's like the Francis Bacon paint, 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:36.919 which is a brilliant you know. So you know, she 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.080 was just like amazing. But but I don't think I've 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.520 ever really done a kind of released a literally adaptation. 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:46.880 They've always been like kind of I suppose my cinematic 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.560 taking it or you know, how to translate that into 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:51.920 a film, and like, and they'd be quite different from 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.880 the source material. And and that's been something maybe I've 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:57.919 just slightly discussed up front with you know, whoever wrote 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:01.359 the material and stead it was John Eames too, you know, 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:04.880 and I haven't read his work, but I understand this 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.560 book was considerably different from some of his other work. Yeah, 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.520 I mean he told me it was in response to 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:13.920 a break up he had like you know, a big 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.720 you know them he writes a lot of comedy, you know. 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:22.559 Um it was quite short book, which I found really 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:26.719 in chasing in a way because unlike Caven, which was 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:31.400 a huge book, and it was in the former layers, um, 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:33.839 which you know it was. It was very really it 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:39.200 was a really difficult adaptation that um was. This was 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:42.720 you know, you could read it in ninety minutes. Probably 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:46.039 the lamee of this of this movie, you know, um 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:49.080 face short. And I love those movies like you know, 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.520 The Postman, Alas, things Twice and things like that. We're 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:55.360 based in short novellas. And like I grew up with Noir, 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.760 so it was like kind of the my mom was 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:01.360 just ding you know, Noir and Hitchcook and like differently, 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:05.320 you know, they were quite you know, they were working 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.080 class people with there. I realized later they were real 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.960 film buffs, you know, the studio system you know, and 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:15.360 you know, you know those things like you know, I 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:19.400 just I saw I remember seen Doling Night really young. Um. 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:23.279 I remember seeing um Invitation of Life, you know, and 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:24.880 things like you know, there's so there was these kind 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.680 of studio movies that were amazing like that that was 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.040 doling names but um so much. But but yeah, like that, 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:35.880 so something attracted me me about this face short, you know, 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.520 like which I was able to me It meant I 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:43.359 was able to kind of almost kind of take and 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.120 you know, run with it and definitely wise and you know, 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:49.760 kind of explode it in more detail, you know. Um, 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:51.320 but yeah, I think it was quite definitely from what 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:55.200 Johnathan names are written before. You know, yeah, you were 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:56.760 starting to get into it there. But you know, I'm 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:59.960 a particular fan of your work because there's always been 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.040 as economy at play. Uh and and you know, the 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.000 visual storytelling is lean, but it's very potent. And I 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.000 feel like this is the case across the board and 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:12.520 certainly with this um for probably largely what you're mentioning 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:14.560 the fact that it was such a kind of streamlined 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.280 story on the page to begin with. But with that 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.440 in mind, your inspirations you've mentioned a few there, but 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:23.800 just in general, Uh, you know, what's your favorite movie? Who? 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.320 Who is your favorite filmmaker current or you know, not 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:33.040 a contemporary. Um, well, there's all the usual suspects, I cause, 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.280 yea filmmakers, you know, I mean Funnily enough, two weeks ago, 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:40.120 I was on this program with a great kind of 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:44.160 presenter called Mark Kermodes, and you know, he does this 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.360 kind of like um, pretty cool program where you know, 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:49.840 let people go in the cinema and it's a life 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:53.160 you know show and people come on and they talk 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.520 about movies. And because it's the fiftiesh Anniversity of Two 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:58.520 Days and One, you know, the sort of clap and 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:03.080 the preface of Kimo whose curing Cubertics work, and then 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.320 you just see like a clip of that, and well 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:06.440 I hadn't seen it for a while, and I was 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.560 just like, oh my god, you know, the cinema, like 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.800 if we went backwards. I mean, it was just like 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:15.280 it's so in five minutes, sums up mankind and the 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.040 opening scene you know, and so and one thing I 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.600 didn't realize, and what the Perfectors professor has said was 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.560 that the satellites when you know, you have the eight 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.120 scene and the bone goes up like you know, um 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:31.360 going around there, for it was actually a voiceover originally 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:34.120 and they were bones, you know. Um, And so it 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:35.760 just kind of like, I don't know, it was just 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:40.400 a bit on inspiring. You see such amazing work. Again. Um, 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.160 but I was a big fan of Bergman, I guess, 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:47.599 like and Nick Rogue and like and David Lynch and 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.920 that I was fifteen at the time, so blue Velvet, 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.559 you know, I think it was a Plin eighteen, you know. 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.640 But somehow vigled my way into the cinema with a 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:06.120 boy my boyfriend at the time. And oh yeah, I 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:08.600 haven't seen a new one yet. But actually a studio 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:12.560 Canal who released the movie, um, my movie in the 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.600 UK just recently. Um, their present to me was the 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:18.080 new twin Peaks box set, so that was a pretty 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:22.160 cool present. But just I've seen that movie and in 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:26.000 Glasgow and you know, you know, it was probably I 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.679 don't know, ladies well, early nineties or something like that. 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.760 I don't remember exactly the year, but but it was 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.880 and you know, lots of people walked out. No one 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:39.040 knew what this was. It was just um, you know, 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:43.160 and I've seen a lot of films, but the landscape 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.600 at the time was you know that we'd go and 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:47.680 see studio movies or whatever, and it was just like 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:49.480 it just totally blew my mind. I was like, why 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.720 why are these films not you know, why have I 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:55.679 never seen anything like this before. But he walked out 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:57.360 of that movie and you were like, I felt I 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.120 was instill in blue velvet, like for the rest in 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:02.360 the night, you know, And that was like, oh my god. 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:05.920 That it was kind of like virtual reality in a way. Yeah. Right, 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:08.320 And speaking earlier two thousand and one, I think actually 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:15.000 this very day is the fiftieth Anniverse inter Uh you 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:17.080 know this movie you were never really here. There's so 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:20.120 many elements to dissect and discuss, and I want to 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:22.920 just talk about a few of them. The editing certainly, 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:25.000 you know, I just talked about the lean nature of 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:28.440 your storytelling, and uh, I love the bravery of just 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:30.520 like getting out of a scene way quicker than you 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.200 might expect, or coming into a scene way later than 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.000 you might assume. You know, things like that. They that 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:38.960 obviously builds the pace and provides a momentum, but it 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.600 also kind of it creates this headspace. It creates this 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.960 this psychological atmosphere I feel, And I just want to 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:52.400 talk about your philosophy on editing. Um, well, this one, boys, 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:55.960 I guess it was in a pouch that that was 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:57.880 like do we have to see everything? Do we? H? 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.599 You know, what's left to the imagining Asian you know, like, um, 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:04.920 I think the audiences are quite sophisticated. And and also 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:08.120 worked with amazing eador called Joe Bini that you know, 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.400 you know, worked we hurt so before and he did 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.160 my last movie where we were jumping around in time 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:15.360 a lot, and so we learned a lot, you know, 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:19.080 because that script was also very tight, you know, because 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.720 that there was like, you know, it was really to 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.000 the bone. He made that film so it was almost 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:26.840 like armchair edited on paper. It was like it goes 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.280 from this to this and this and this and here's 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:33.000 the sound that connects them all. And um, but I 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:34.520 think you know one thing he said that I thought 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:36.440 it was really kind a beautiful thing. He says, like, 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:38.319 you know, it was like he felt that we ed 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:42.800 edited it together. You know, Um, it was. It was 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:46.080 quite a it was pulled about half the time. There 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.960 didn't know this of my last movie, you know, in 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:50.800 terms of because it when he can and was crazy 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.240 things happened. So after this crazy shoe, it was I 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.200 thought it but you know, something dead and it's like, yeah, 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:58.880 you've got a bit of headspace and whatever. What was 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:02.960 it didn't really turn out like that. It was just like, um, 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:06.080 suddenly a lot of crazy things hand can light and 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.400 we didn't you know, they didn't have any credits. It 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:10.760 was storyboards in it that you know. It was things 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.080 like that. But getting back to your question, it was, UM, 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.200 I think for a really exercise and economy for us 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.079 and a and also what do you need to know 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:23.120 you know, um? And what spaces that give other people 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:25.959 you think about it about it, and and where is 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.800 this character's headspace right now? And we certainly saw like, um, 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:34.640 the you know, I don't I don't really like traditional 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.640 flashbacks or anything like that. But there was as you know, 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:43.080 post traumatic stress disorder cann element to it, which to 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.560 me I so much more like shards and broken glass 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:47.400 in his head. And I felt that we should be 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.840 really that one or two emergies that would tell enough 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.880 you know, UM, but also give this idea to a 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:59.520 repetitive kind of um like louicids kind of hallucination you know, 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.679 um and you know, but also we tried to keep 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:07.720 this really propulsive narrative and one thing you know, you know, 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.080 or just a feeling of the energy that that I felt, 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.160 you know, the book was a real page Turner. I 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.760 don't think he'd you know, John self admittedly was still 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.839 finishing the book. It was only released in France. Um 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.520 and you know, so it was a bit like me 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.160 starting off this thing and go, you know, saying where 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.720 is this going to go? And um, and it was 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.080 it was more it was it was very organic compared 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:32.880 to other films. So yeah, I was lucky in that 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:37.920 that the financiers were, you know, we're rolling with me, 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:41.559 changing things like as I went, you know, because only 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.480 twenty nine days to shoot as well, and so it 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:49.839 was quite a short script stepped and um and how 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:54.080 long did the editing I'd say, but we never had 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.319 a schedule. It was the weirdest thing. I don't know 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.559 if it's just the way they work in France or whatever, 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:00.920 but it was like there was no production schedule. So 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.120 it was quite random in a way. And it was like, well, 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:05.800 you know we've got you know, we be knew we 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.280 I think you knew. We We felt like the material 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.000 was really strong, Joe and I and then we we 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:14.719 you know, we've done this thing. We've never show a 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.120 digital before, you know, um, and you you send me 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.600 more material. But I'm glad that I studied in the 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.600 film because I think you're you're a bit more disciplined, 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:28.880 you know, about what you're you get, you know, Yeah, 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.280 But I didn't. I didn't even that much time. He 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:32.960 watched the Last Years and I was shooting, you know, 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.960 like so it was about remember we I said, did 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.160 you let's get a mixing desk and we'll pre mix it. 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.400 And we did, and then we watched all the rushes 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:45.760 and did selects like again after the shoot from stuff 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.240 I'd liked on the shoot, but I watched everything again. 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:52.120 And then they persuaded him to get this mixing mixing desk, 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.680 which was a big mistake because it kind of messed 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:56.880 up his whole system and he lost all his work 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:01.720 and so he listed these films that made and stuff 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:03.680 like that. But we we were always thinking about the 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:05.640 signs there later on as well, you know, like the 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.920 Paul Davis, my sound designer, and started really early because 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.600 I thought it wasn't like a conventional ledit. It wasn't 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:13.720 like just a picture cut and then you put a 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:15.960 signd on later and then you put the music on later. 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:21.000 It was like picture cut then go back to the 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.120 sounds being the signed and we cut you know, with 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:26.440 the sound of mine, you know, the picture and also 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.240 the music because Johnny Johnny greenwo doesn't score to picture either, 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.160 you know, like it's more like a feeling. And so 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.960 he saw the film very chronologically. It was like here's 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.880 ten minutes, here's twenty. You know, we got to here. 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.920 So we said we did it now. We that we 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.600 edited in a way in the end where we were 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:47.360 really happy, you know, to a piece like you know, 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.280 like here's the first really cool half an hour, you know, 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.920 like this is And we didn't show the whole ledit. 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.120 You know, we'd be like we're up to here, which 0:15:56.240 --> 0:16:00.480 is unusual, you know, yeah, but like that, but like 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:04.000 that I've written so far, and a little bit like 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.960 that in the ends. I mean, we hadn't we but 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:11.320 we I think, I mean, Joe was certainly really like um, 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:14.040 he was an ELI at the time. I've seen in 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.040 New York, and he was very excited by the material. 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.240 And then you know, there was a few things that 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.000 happened along the way where it was like, you know, 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.560 some things that I felt didn't work as much, and 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.240 and and so it was being quite bold about you know, 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:28.520 sing let's you know, reconfigure this a little bit and 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.400 talk to him a bit. And the whole surveillance thing 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:34.960 camera thing was something we tested because I've never had 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.800 reshoots ever in any film of works on, and I'm 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.760 always really envious and directors to say, oh, yeah, I'm 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.600 doing these reshoots. I'm like, so, I was quite risky 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.800 thing to do that, And so I told you my thoughts. 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.120 He came in New York and you know, we started 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:51.520 thinking about how we were going to use a sign 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.640 in the music and all those things really dead. It 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:56.960 was all coming from the psychology of the character. Where 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:00.000 is he at this point? You know, when does they breakdown? 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.960 You know, when you know you know where is this? 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.480 You know? You know it was a bit of a beast, really, 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:09.680 you know, Chitan this thing. But I think we were 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:13.680 so disciplined, you know, um like, I don't think even 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:15.359 this samply was that long. I think it was like 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:20.800 a hundred minutes or something. Hundeon taine maybe. Yeah. People 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.520 aren't aware. Usually assemblies are like hours and hours long, 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:29.000 and normally you're starting to talk about the sound there. 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:30.840 I'd love to talk about that's another element. I mean, 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:34.480 the sound is its whole other uh, just kind of 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.200 doorway into the psychology of the character Johnny Greenwood during 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.080 the score. You guys work together on Kevin as well. 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.639 But what kind of sonic environment did you want to 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:44.720 build here? Is is this the kind of thing that 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.760 uh you let Johnny kind of come with his feeler 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:51.080 you do you present him with, like what's that dynamic 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:53.560 like with you do? Well? First of all, I mean 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.680 that's sporting him quite early augmented Ltney I've seen. It 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.920 was the scripts, which was kind of the same place 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.960 for everything but was still evolving. And then the whole 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:05.680 thing went any production, which was really bonkers. That doesn't 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.560 happen every day. It's like, um, because Joachim was free 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.439 and you know Amazon like strips it can and like 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:14.200 just a lot of things happened, and I hadn't really 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.000 finished it, you know, Like it was I was still 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:17.760 working on it, and I thought it was going to 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:19.280 be shooting in the fall, and then suddenly I was 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.840 shooting in the summer, and it was a bit crazy. Um. 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:25.760 But like Johnny that I talked to him, like about 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.280 the the nature that that I wanted to to have 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.240 this thing that it drove that we were driving forward 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:36.399 we talked about Carpenter a lot, but you know, but 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:38.600 those are kind of like in the more broad strokes. 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:41.920 He loves pender Ecke. I love pender ech Here and 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.760 always loved this Effects Twin track called Rhubarb that that 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.480 you know, I've never it's so beautiful that it's almost 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.840 too you can never find an image for it, you know. 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:53.600 But I think he did his own thoughts as well, 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.040 and we talked about strings and using like that, and 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.879 it was becoming obviously it season two radio Head at 0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:02.199 the time, and I didn't I didn't even know if 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.480 you have timey do it. And he was like, he's 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:06.200 quite a more dis guy, and he's like, I look, 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:08.399 you know, like this is crazy. But when he saw them, 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.000 I think when he he started to engage in what 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:13.000 the car I think, And even though we did it 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.640 quite remotely, which was weird because Kevin would add went 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.520 a lot to the studio, you know, but what was 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:21.600 really great about that was like he was kind of 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:25.080 seeing the character evolved, and so the music was involved 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.240 in a bit like the character. So you know, it 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:30.520 feels like you know what it's going to be at first, 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.119 you know that, and there was just so many brilliant 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:36.800 pieces of music. He scent like, um, but that Joe 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.000 and I would be running up and down the room, 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.400 like the corridor of the editing rooms, and I think 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:45.639 feeling like we've got a president if we got his music, 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.000 were like, oh my god, you know that And and 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.479 it was inspired by the characters. Music was very inspired 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.120 by the character and the feeling New York and what 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:57.280 Paul Davis was doing with the sign design, and also 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.480 that I thought the smart thing he do was to 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:04.359 get Johnny's engineer involved, who was there in the studio 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.000 with us, so he knew the music really well and 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.000 he edited was a music head in the film. But 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.280 really it was like remembody watched LL four, which is 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:15.840 the final really the film um and he was like, 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.040 oh my god, I love Real four. It's completely mad, 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.800 it's completely crazy. It's bonkers like and and that that 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.720 character started to implode in the music started to implode, 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:30.199 and you know, and that giving them this kind of 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:34.800 chronological version of the character was really I think informative. 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.200 But you know, we we didn't really go like this 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:40.159 is going to be the way it is. It was like, 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:43.239 I think things were just gravitating towards certain things, and 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:47.080 he had ideas and like I think early on we 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.040 you know, we booked some studio time, which I think 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:53.000 they had to really like, there wasn't money for us score. 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:55.359 And even though it's the more it's the most scored 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.520 thing thing I've ever done, Like you know, um, it's 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.320 the most scored film, and I knew would be a score. 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:04.520 There was like we're literally to the wires and stuff 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:06.200 like that. There wasn't a lot of means to do 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.359 things that I remember fighting really ugly on to get 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:11.800 like a bunch of musicians together. I think the most 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.600 was like it might have been about eight musicians altogether, 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:19.880 you know. Um. And we were looking at a tonal 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:23.720 kind of signs um and and and Paul Davis was 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:27.399 doing strange things and playing some things backwards, you know, 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.439