1 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to this week's edition of A Cowboy Life, the 2 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: storytelling podcast presented by Smoothie King. Blending goodness to fuel 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: your greatness. I'm Brady Tinker. This week we tell you 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: the story of one of the old time winningest players 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: in NFL history, defensive end Charles Hayley. Charles won five 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: Super Bowls in his career, three with the Dallas Cowboys 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: and two with the team the drafted in the San 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: Francisco forty nine ers. And here week go a prologue 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,319 Speaker 1: to today's story. The Jerry Jones Jimmy Johnson era came 10 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: in with a whimper as the nineteen eighty nine Dallas 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: Cowboys went one and fifteen. Troy Aikman barely survived. But 12 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: two years after, Jimmy had completely remade the Cowboys roster. 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: The team was now fast and athletic on defense and 14 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: powerful and exact on offense. This new breed of Dallas 15 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: Cowboys were being noticed. Aikman, Irvin Emmett. The offense was 16 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: set with pillars of strength and talent. The defense already 17 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: had Tony Tolbert, Jim jeffcot, Russell Maryland, and Tony Cassius 18 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: to rush the passer, but they were missing that one piece, 19 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:13,639 Speaker 1: a true disruptor with a nasty side. Maybe enter Charles Haley. 20 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: But let's back up a bit because you may remember, 21 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: almost inexplicably, the Cowboys got Hall of Famer Charles Haley 22 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: from their bitter rival to San Francisco forty nine Ers 23 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: in a trade. Here's Charles, Well, first, we got it. 24 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: We gotta go back to the draft. Okay, the forty 25 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: nine has moved up to get me. I should have 26 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: been really a blue chip talent wise, Charles Haley from 27 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: James Madison University was astounding to watch, long and fast 28 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: with a relentless motor, but virtually nobody was watching one 29 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: double a's James Madison was seen as competing against inferior talent. 30 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: Add to that that they had never had a player 31 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: drafted into the NFL. So blue chip talent, yeah, blue 32 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: chip on NFL draft boards. No, he almost did get draft. 33 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,839 Speaker 1: The redskin time film and they timed the right when 34 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: he got back from Christmas and he ran a four 35 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: seven five. It was too slow for them. They just 36 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 1: they didn't like him, so they went away. Then the 37 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: forty nine ers came in and they clocked him. And 38 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: he ran four to five, so they drafted me. That 39 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: new voice is Charles defensive coordinator James Madison University defensive 40 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: coordinator Danny Wilmer. Danny had coached and handled Charles if 41 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: you will, for four years in college, and he was 42 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: a big fan. In nineteen eighty six, the forty nine 43 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: ers were in the middle of a dominant run of football, 44 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: with Joe Montana and their head coach Bill Walsh both 45 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: in their primes. Walsh was already known around the league 46 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: as the genius. So in June of nineteen eighty six, 47 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: Charles boards an airplan after being drafted by the forty 48 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: nine ers and heads to his new home in San Francisco. 49 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: Easy right in Virginia where I grew up as white 50 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: and black. That's it. I didn't know any other race. 51 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: I've never seen him before. I get off the plane. 52 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: I go to a black guy and I go like, 53 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: where's baggage claim? He spoken differently. I went to a 54 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: white guy. He's spoken different The holy shit. I went 55 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: back to the gate. Then I kept hearing my damn name, 56 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: John Gruden. He kept calling. Next Charles Haley come to 57 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: baggage plane. I'm like, what the hell is going on? Man, 58 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: Charles Haley? Would you please come to baggage claim. This 59 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: is John Gruden and someday I'm gonna be a really 60 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: big deal. So I need you to come to baggage 61 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: claim today. I got a reputation. Would you please come 62 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: to baggage claim Charles today? So he had to come 63 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: back to the gate to get me. It was terrifying. Man. 64 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: Charles Haley grew up on a farm in Gladys, Virginia, 65 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: with older brothers who constantly worked him over. They picked 66 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: on him, but his mother, Virginia, was always there with 67 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: just the right kind of love for her youngest. She 68 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: lifted him up, he would say. But Charles was clearly 69 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: a different kid who, by the way, jumped off the 70 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: screen when you watched the film of him playing football 71 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: long and fast with a relentless motor and a visible meanstreak. 72 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: And now he's in the big city in San Francisco 73 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: and in the league, the NFL. The best news for 74 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: Charles was he was reporting the head coach, Bill Walsh, 75 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: who couldn't wait to get him to San Francisco. Late, 76 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: great Bill Walsh was your head coach when you got there? 77 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: How did you find him, and did you guys get 78 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: along immediately? Oh god, man coach walsh Man with the 79 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: dream Man. First preseason game went down and pick off, 80 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: didn't they crossed that when they crossed at me, this 81 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: guy hit gonna get you right. So when they crossed 82 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: the front, Oh god, I'll random guy and I got 83 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: hit and somehow I fell too forward and made the 84 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: tackle right. But I don't remember where I was. And 85 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: all I when I woke up was Bill Head special 86 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: team coach by the Jordan's Stay. He had no plans 87 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: down special team as long with them to hit coach 88 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,679 Speaker 1: and here we go forty nine or special teams coach 89 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: of Fred von Oppen played college football. He also owned 90 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: two master's degrees, and he'd served in the US Army. 91 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: And he's certainly ready for almost anything except maybe coaching. 92 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: Charles Hailey, Charles and Betty was pissed at Yet what 93 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: did he do next? He put me on a scout team, 94 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: so off of special teams, which were an injury waiting 95 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: to happen to scout teams. Now, Scout teams are where 96 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: the backup players on a team work in practice, mimicking 97 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: the other teams players for example, if the Giants are 98 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: the next opponents of the forty nine ers, then Charles 99 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: is now practicing as if he plays for the Giants. 100 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: He's doing the same thing the Giants might do in 101 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: the upcoming game, so his teammates can then prepare for it. 102 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: Certainly less dangerous than special teams, but certainly not a 103 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: role that Charles Hailey would ever think he should be playing. 104 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: So he made another unfriendly visit to coach von Oppen 105 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: and I went out there while he was doing practice, 106 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: because you know, I went out, Damn my shoes and 107 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: you know, no shirt, and I threw it in the 108 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: space the building. I ain't playing, no freensire, that's scout too. 109 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: He got man ran in the building. I said, what 110 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: the hell you think of? Put me in time out? 111 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: They've probably never been around form better like me. Yeah, 112 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: not many of us have. And while Charles was consistently 113 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: a paint in some coaches butts, he was also quickly 114 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,799 Speaker 1: becoming a game changing player with a very special mind 115 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: for the game of football. I got the playbook during 116 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: the preseason. I learned every bit of it. Ain't I 117 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: need to know every detail? So I knew everybody's position, 118 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: on every coverage. Depending on how much you know about football, 119 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: you may or may not know how unusual it is 120 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: for a defensive end to know what the other ten 121 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: men with him on defense were supposed to be doing 122 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: at all times. He also learned the offense, and he 123 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: knew what all of those men were assigned to do too, 124 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: because oftentimes his defensive meetings, well, they board him. So 125 00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: he would get up and walk out, and he would 126 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: walk on the hall and sit in with the offense, 127 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: and he learned it all, and he remembered every bit 128 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: of it. Very weird, very unusual, and impressive and intimidating 129 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: and a little bit strange. You were quickly becoming a 130 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: stud in the NFL, Charles. But I do remember a 131 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: story about you being hazed in San Francisco. You're a 132 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: rookie year. About two of them off in line. They 133 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: grabbed me and the D line, Michael Carter and them, 134 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: and they took me there, and they take my feet, 135 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: they take my feet, they take the top of my head. 136 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: I'm just thank god that Bill Wash walked out on 137 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: the patio and sought me out there and says, somebody 138 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: that cut me down. That's when I knew something was 139 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: wrong with me because I couldn't let it go, you know, 140 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: I had to get them back, and then, you know, 141 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: the hate just increased. You know, I mentioned earlier that 142 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: Charles had older brothers growing up that were rough on him. 143 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: They reveled and beating on him and keeping him down, 144 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: and to this day he has problems with how they 145 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: treated him period. So getting duct tape to a goalpost 146 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: north end zone by a bunch of guys on his 147 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: own team who were bullying him had terrible childhood memories 148 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: flooding back into his head. Just after he arrived in 149 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: his new home in San Francisco, because I was having 150 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: a headache, they put me in this room with a 151 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: y brading chair, headphones, and dog glasses. I didn't go 152 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: to any meeting. It's no way to live having anger 153 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: and aggression towards those around you that are supposed to 154 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: be on your side. Charles's brain was working overtime on 155 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: being angry, and yet you heard him say he missed 156 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: meetings to be in this dark room that sometimes offered 157 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: him a little bit of peace. How did he play 158 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: football at a high level spending lots of time in 159 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: that room? Well, you may remember him saying he memorized 160 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: the entire playbook and he knew what everyone's job was 161 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: on every play, and that was no joke. He was 162 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: very strange, very difficult, but he was also a savan. 163 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: You know what. You know what made me great. I 164 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: knew the coverage behind me. I knew what the linebackers 165 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: are doing. I knew what the guy next to me 166 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: were doing, so I could take chances because I noticed 167 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 1: corners down. That means I got outside, could take I 168 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: could jump inside somebody's out there to take my place. 169 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: Defensive playmakers are set up to be able to make 170 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: plays and sometimes take chances by their defensive coordinators and 171 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: then by their teammates. But in Charles's case, while that 172 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: was true, Charles was also set up to be able 173 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: to take chances because, as you remember, he knew everything 174 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: that was going on around him in every game, and 175 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: he knew what it meant and how the other team's 176 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: offense was working. He was becoming a genius on the 177 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: football field, and head coach Bill Walsh was damn well 178 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: going to take full advantage of what his best defensive 179 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 1: player had to offer physically and mentally. I ran the 180 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: elephant position and pretty much it is. He just lined 181 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: me up and tell me figure it out, make it work. 182 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: At ATNC, everyone knew and existing customers get our best 183 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: deals on every smartphone. Why because you deserve it for 184 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: turning your living room into your office and your gym. 185 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: We're teaching. Grandma had a video call and teaching her again. 186 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: It's the button on your left Banna, Okay, your other laughs. 187 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: It's not complicated. Everyone deserves something new, so ATNC has 188 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: given everyone new and existing customers are best deals with 189 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: every unlimited plan on every smartphone, even the latest ones. 190 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: At t may temporrelis lodated spat at the Network's basic 191 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: restrictings and acceptance may apply. Hi, I'm Clint Tillison with man. 192 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: I'm Jay Novachek, and we're both with Nag and Turf, 193 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: the official tractor provider of the Dallas Cowboys. So if 194 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: you need a tractor to bail some hay, a'm more 195 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: to cut some grass, or a gator to get some 196 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,719 Speaker 1: chores done, get a John Deer at Unitedagin Turf and 197 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,439 Speaker 1: then let's get to work. Hey Jay, that's my line, Well, 198 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: not today, get to work with a John Deer tractor 199 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: package that's just right for you in your budget. Visit 200 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: unitedaginturf dot com. Before there was a draft, you get 201 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: sized up a cowboy by three simple factors. The crease 202 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: in his hat, the bend of his brim, and his 203 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 1: unbending attitude a man. Stetson didn't just protect him from 204 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 1: what life throw at him. It projected a rugged, unstoppable spirit. 205 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: Stetson hats are still American, made with pride. Right here 206 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: in Texas. There's still the unofficial crow out of all 207 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: self respecting cowboys, and Stetson is proud to be on 208 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 1: the field with America's team. Find a retailer nearest you 209 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: at Stetson dot com. Slash Cowboys. The new Doctor Peppers 210 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: zero sugar. You deserve it. I do deserve that. You 211 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: deserve decadent flavor without sugar, and a day at the 212 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: beach without sand getting everywhere, and a relaxing bath that 213 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: your children don't interrupt. I deserve all that's leads a 214 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: visual metaphor for Doctor Pepper zero sugar. Everything you want, 215 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 1: nothing you don't. A visual metaphor on the radio. I 216 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: do deserve that, Doctor Pepper zero sugar, The zero you 217 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: deserve is Finally, here, Bill Walsh put a coach nickname 218 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: Peewee with our man Charles, and they, along with defensive 219 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 1: coordinator George Seafort, created the Elephant defense for the forty 220 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: nine ers. Now, the elephant is built around one player, 221 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: a man who can line up and rush the passer 222 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: a defensive end, but who can also drop into a 223 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: linebacker position and cover tight ends or chase down running backs. 224 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: As you can imagine, not many of them have come 225 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: along ever, but Peewee or Dwayne Board as his mother 226 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: named him, developed a relationship with Charles, and he became 227 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: the most feared defensive player in the NFC, winning Defensive 228 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: Player of the Year in nineteen ninety. Other good things 229 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: were happening. There were also two teammates on the forty 230 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: nine ers that Charles was particularly fond of. The first 231 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: one you most certainly know, quarterback Joe Montana. Joe was 232 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: the best teammate any man asked for. He was like 233 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,599 Speaker 1: me fixteen old kids, just having fun. You know, we 234 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: loved the damn game. You know, I remember Joe can 235 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: hit hard and he goes, did he catch a ball? 236 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: I'm going like wow, wow. You know, he knew a 237 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: lot to be. Charles had just a few people in 238 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: his life that he looked up to and appreciate it, 239 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: and maybe even at times. Revered quarterback Joe Montana was 240 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: right at the top of that list. He would have 241 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,599 Speaker 1: fun with Charles, and he would tease him, and he 242 00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: loved on him, and he was always there for him. 243 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 1: Where Charles, Joe was the perfect teammate and friend. Because 244 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: Joe Montana Pinocchio, Joe is the greatest human being. Guys. 245 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: He walked in this room and you think he's your brother. Man, 246 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: He's phenomenal. So one practice, I just kept jumping off 247 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: side right Damn Bill getting mad, He goes, what the 248 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: hell is your problem, Haley? I said, well, Joe's noses 249 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: off side side, just keep jumping hey and so hey. 250 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: He bust out laughing and threw it. Made us go in. 251 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: Two days later we was out there and he goes, 252 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,719 Speaker 1: he blew the whistle. He said, I wish I had 253 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: a whole damned team on him and ninety four and 254 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: there you know what. We went the Super Bowl and 255 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 1: he quit and then on fuck with George. As you know, 256 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,599 Speaker 1: Bill Walts loved Charles Haley the football player from the 257 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: minute he saw him on tape. He drafted him and 258 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: taught him, and he'd befriended him. Joe Montana played and 259 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: lived like Charles thought everyone should. These men were his anchors. 260 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: They kept him from drifting away. Safety Ronnie Lott was 261 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: the other forty nine or the Charles responded to, was 262 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: my mentor. And you know I used to stay on 263 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: his wings until he made me go to this charity 264 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: thing with him and he gave shoes out at a 265 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: bobber shop. This ten year old kid walked up to him. Man, 266 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: this kid gave him the best question of where it 267 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: made me? It made me a man? Kids say, what 268 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: makes you a great player? He said, I played without fear. 269 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: That was the last day was under his wings. Hey, 270 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: I found my own way after that point. But I 271 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: didn't realize that was the biggest key to being a 272 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: great football player is to not allow fear to creep 273 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: in into your psyche. You know, And and as I 274 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: tell my kids, that's in everything in life. No matter 275 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: what you do, the moment you let doubt doubt spear 276 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: and it'll cripple you. Ronnie Lott was a free safety 277 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: that had been drafted by Bill Walts in the forty 278 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: nine ers. Five years before Charles came to San Francisco, 279 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: a Lot had been First Team All Pro twice already, 280 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: and he had won two Super Bowls. But the story 281 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: that tells you about Ronnie Lot, the man and the player, 282 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: happened the year before Charles arrived. He was nineteen eighty 283 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: five and he had snapped the end of his pinky 284 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: finger in a playoff game. When the season was over, 285 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: he opted not to have surgery because that would have 286 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: caused him to miss several games in the upcoming nineteen 287 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: eighty sixth season, so he asked the doctors to just 288 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: cut the end of his finger off after some teeth gnashing. 289 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: Doctors don't want to cut your fingers off that they 290 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: don't have to. They did it, and a few months 291 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: later Charles arrived and Ronnie, to nobody's surprise, with someone 292 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: Charles immediately looked up to and even took harsh criticism from. 293 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: If you can imagine that a mentor for Charles. They 294 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: won two Super Bowls together along with Joe Montana. But 295 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: thanks for Charles in the Bay Area would not stay 296 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: smooth for long. I think I probably had a nervous 297 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: breakdown and something I couldn't control my emotions and the 298 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: anger and hay came out. You know, first of all, 299 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: you have to remember they cut Ronnie at the Pro ball. 300 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: I was right there with Randy when he got cut. 301 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: They humiliated him and I couldn't forgive him for that 302 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: because you know that shit, that's not right. So whatever 303 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: I had to do to get out, I did well. 304 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: By this time. You know that Charles is great at 305 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: football and it's tough an soob is you would ever 306 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: want to meet. But he was also fragile. And when 307 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: one of the few people that he loved and trust 308 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: in the game was not only released but humiliated in 309 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: the process, well that just wasn't gonna stand with Charles. 310 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: You help me on accountable. Rest of them was scared 311 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: to hold me accountable. You give an example. Well is everything? Hey? 312 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: You know being on time? You know you're on time? 313 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: You late, Tobody sending your goals and your standards? Boy, 314 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: who's sending your goals and standards? You're gonna hey? Somebody 315 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: said him they live and you boy, he gave me 316 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: tough love, and I mean I just you call it 317 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: tough love, I call it the truth. And I needed 318 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 1: that nourishment. Ronnie Lott was a mentor and a friend 319 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: and a great player, but the forty nine Ers decided 320 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: he was getting older and that they could do with 321 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: someone younger and cheaper at the safety position, and that 322 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: sent Charles spinning. And it all came out after a 323 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: game against the Raiders the following year. You see, Ronnie 324 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: Lott was now a Raider and the forty nine Ers 325 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: lost in a game that, in Charles's mind, pitted him 326 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: against his big brother Ronnie, and all hell broke loose. 327 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: After the game, I was having a screaming that team 328 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,959 Speaker 1: and stuff, and all of a sudden, you know, George 329 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: wanted me to sit down. And then I turned and 330 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: I swung and I hit hit the hit the brick wall, 331 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: and then guy guys grabbed me and I was swinging 332 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: and almost put my hand through that glass door with 333 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: that wires, I cut my wrists and everything up. So 334 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: I'm bleeding. I'm bleeding, crap and doctor them. They standing 335 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:03,959 Speaker 1: at the door going like I ain't going over there, 336 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: and so they go get Ronnie, and Ronnie comes in. Man, 337 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: it gets me a hug and they I'm in the 338 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: locker room. I'm dressing. Next thing, I know, you gotta 339 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: come over. It's a run over. Roses hit the glass 340 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: and the glass the glass had wires in it, like 341 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: in the hospital, you know, they had wires in it. 342 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: So I come in and I'm looking at him and 343 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: and I look at his hand, and then I know 344 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: what's going on in his head. I love like a brother, 345 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: and I don't think he wanted to lose to his 346 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: big brother. That doctors they look at me and stuff. 347 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: But from there and off about three or four games, 348 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: it was just really really emotional for me, and I 349 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: couldn't couldn't control it. Then I went into isolation after that. 350 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: That new voice is the Hall of Fame safety Ronnie Lott, 351 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: who was a mentor and brother to Charles, as you've heard, 352 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: and we appreciate him chiming in on his friend. But 353 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: truth be told, it wasn't just head coach George Seaford 354 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: in the front office cutting Ronnie Lott that messed with Charles. 355 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: The forty nine ers were also a year into a 356 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: plan to replace the greatest qb ever, Joe Montana, the 357 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: other teammate near and dear to Charles. I loved Joe 358 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: montem Steve and Joe told the opposite. Steve he never talked, 359 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: he was a loner. Joe was always exciting. Joe was 360 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: deaf from the beginning for me, and I loved John, 361 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: and then when Steve came, I felt like Steve was 362 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: trying to take his job, push him out, and I 363 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: couldn't forgive him for that. Man, it was a lot 364 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: of things. Ronnie got cut. Everybody that I love got 365 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: cut that year. So it just took it. Took a 366 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: toll on me, and I took it out on Steve 367 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 1: when I shouldn't have. Steve Young was and on the rise, 368 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: left handed, hotshot quarterback who could ron An throw, and 369 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: he had this air of confidence about him, not like Montana, 370 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: who certainly was confident, but he was always positive and 371 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: fun to be around. Steve Young was right next to 372 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,239 Speaker 1: arrogant almost all the time, especially for a guy who 373 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: went three and sixteen as a starter in Tampa before 374 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: being traded San Francisco. But honestly, though, anybody could see 375 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: that Steve Young could really play. And Joe Montana had 376 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: been pronounced nearly physically dead about three times in his 377 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 1: last two years in his mid thirties with back issues, 378 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: So the forty nine ers traded for Steve Young and 379 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: began to ready him to take the reins at quarterback. 380 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: Only they couldn't really talk about it because he was 381 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: replacing Joe Montana, winner of four Super Bowls, and, as 382 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: Charles told you, one of the greatest guys and teammates ever. 383 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: The guy who was taking the brunt of Charles's frustration 384 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: was his head coach, George Seaffer, who would replace Bill 385 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: Walsh when he suddenly retired. Seaffer, you may remember, was 386 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: the defensive coordinator under Walsh, and he had a lot 387 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: to do with Charles being the star of the Elephant defense. 388 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: But truth be told, Charles never really took to George 389 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: Seyffert because, well mostly because he wasn't Bill Wolf. I 390 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: want to use what the pros use. How about the 391 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: official men's skincare brand of the Dallas Cowboys, Jack Black. 392 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: Right now, you can get the Jack Black Starter, a 393 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 1: curated collection of Cowboys locker room favorites, for just ten 394 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: bucks with free shipping. 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Before there was a draft, 418 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: you could sized up a cowboy by three simple factors. 419 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: The crease in his hat, the bend of his brim, 420 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: and his unbending attitude a man. Stetson didn't just protect 421 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,719 Speaker 1: him from what life throw at him. It projected a rugged, 422 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: unstoppable spirit. Stetson hats are still American, made with pride. 423 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: Right here in Texas. There's still the unofficial crowd of 424 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: all self respecting cowboys, and Stetson is proud to be 425 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: on the field with America's team. Find a retailer nearest 426 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: hit Stetson dot com slash Cowboys. He was a micromanager man, 427 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: and he was stickling on detail. And I loved that part. 428 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: I love that, you know. And the funny thing I 429 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: bought it is he would tell his wife he never 430 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: makes some mistake. Now, I told you all about Polar Ray, 431 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: so I'm saying that he thinks I'm dumb. You know. 432 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: He was thinking I was dumb because I'm black, you know. 433 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: So I, instead of listening to what he said, I 434 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: turned it into a negative and you know, it took 435 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: me a while to figure that out. I had to 436 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: start taking my medicine and get it, and then had 437 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: to go back and apologize to this guy man, because 438 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 1: you know what, he was padding me on the back, 439 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: you know. And then from that day on, man, things 440 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: went south between us. In fairness, George Seaffert won two 441 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: Super Bowls, is the forty nine Ers head coach. He 442 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: was the first coach to win a Super Bowl in 443 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: his rookie coaching year since nineteen sixty and he is 444 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: still the winning as coach in forty nine Ers history, 445 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: with a record of ninety eight and thirty. But Charles 446 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 1: never liked him, and it seemed the forty nine Ers 447 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: brass didn't either, as they brought in coach Steve Marriuchi 448 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: to replace him and told him that's what they were 449 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: gonna do. Quote, he'll be your offensive coordinator for the 450 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: final year of your contract and then he'll take your job. Okay, man, 451 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: that sucks. But back to Charles versus George Seyffert in 452 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: our story, So with Ronnie leaving, you and Seyffert had separation. 453 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: You got all over Seyffert. Somebody told you to go apologize, 454 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: as I understand it, and you think you couldn't, you 455 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: couldn't bring yourself to do it. I think I blinked it. 456 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: I blinked it. Hey, I was in the room with 457 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: him and I was blinking. And he didn't need him down. 458 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: He couldn't read most code. That was his spot. I 459 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: told him that tooth. Charles clearly was out on George Seyffert, 460 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,360 Speaker 1: and with Ronnie gone and Montana on his way out, 461 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: Charles was well on his way out too. He abused 462 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: his head coach verbally and quite on purpose, and then 463 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: blinked his way through a non apology. At the core 464 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 1: of his discuss his head coach was his incessant need 465 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: to talk. He apparently was an over talker that liked 466 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: to hear himself talk. As far as Charles was concerned, 467 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: I see the world black and white, and I don't 468 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: ever see great is black or white? And uh so 469 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: I always just turn it, I flip it, you know, 470 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: and I don't. I don't like people to talk to 471 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 1: me word magic. But like fifteen twenty minutes, like George Steefer, Hell, 472 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: I don't know what you just saying. You know, Hey, 473 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: I don't know where you what did you just say, 474 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: all I heard was something, and anything that I heard 475 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: was negative. I think that's what our problem was. Because 476 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: Bill Walsher would call me in. He will say a 477 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 1: couple of centers and kill and get the hell out. 478 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: I say, okay, I'm good. You do sense the pattern here, right? 479 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: Anyone who was replacing someone that Charles loved, like George Siefert, 480 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: replacing Bill Walsh was destined to be compared to them, 481 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: and then to fall woefully short of them, and then 482 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: to ultimately be met with disdain. It was part of 483 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: his bipolar issues. He loved or he hated, and as 484 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 1: he said, black or white, he only let a few 485 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: people in and they could do no wrong, and anyone 486 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: who replaced them was in for a long battle with 487 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: Charles Hayley. George said, the last straw was when I 488 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: told him I wasn't going to go to London or 489 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: Japan or wherever they were going. And when they got back, 490 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: they told me just go home. And then I went home, 491 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: and and I came back over there and they said 492 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: I was traded to the Dallas scout Wood. It seems 493 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: to me there's no way you can blame George Seyfert 494 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: or the forty nine ers on this They were running 495 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: their team and they were still in a position to 496 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: win more Super Bowl. Steve Young was a great replacement 497 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 1: for the aging Joe Montana. Ronnie Lott was thirty two 498 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: years old and expensive for an older safety. Teams make 499 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: tough decisions all the time in this exclusive league, the NFL, 500 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: But when dealing with Charles, you had to understand he 501 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,160 Speaker 1: needed his guys, and Walsh, Montana and Ronnie Lott were 502 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: his guys. And now they were all gone, and so 503 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: was Charles. Here's the good news. This problem child that 504 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: was coming to Dallas was a monster talent and the 505 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: Cowboys had just the owner and head coach to handle 506 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: him because winning was on their mind. And you remember 507 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: the name of this story told to us by Charles 508 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: at the beginning. I'm into winning. I'm into that French 509 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: gentlem into that winship. You want to be my friend, 510 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: Let's do some win, okay, hey, postlogue, this is just 511 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: the start of the ride with Hall of Famer Charles Haley. 512 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: We've seen all of his sides now and now they're 513 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: all coming to Dallas to meet Emmett and Troy and 514 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 1: Michael and Jimmy and Jerry and this is gonna be fun. 515 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: Charles Haley won two Super Bowls in San Francisco, and 516 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: he has a murders row of talent waiting on him 517 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: to be his teammate in Dallas with the Cowboys. That's 518 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: next time on Part two of the Charles Haley Story 519 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 1: about football and winning and other stuff.