WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 66 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.680 Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.400 you know this is a compiletion episode. So every episode 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:09.360 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:13.240 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:15.760 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:17.720 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.919 there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:28.880 can make your own decisions. It could happen here it 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:34.200 being the future and here being to you. Um this well, 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:37.479 last week when you hear this, but this week when 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.720 we're recording this, because we're recording this in the past 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:48.519 for you. Garrison Davis, intrepid correspondent and myself, Garrison Davis's boss, 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:54.160 went to c e S, the Consumer Electronics Show in 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:57.680 in order to explore the future, uh and and in 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.360 keeping with our guide both to the future which we 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:05.280 cover here and collapse because the tech industry is falling apart. Um. 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:07.080 I think this was a pretty interesting time to be 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:09.319 at c E S. I did an episode last week 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:13.640 where I kind of talked preliminary about some preliminaries, you know. 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:15.840 I went to an event called CS Unveiled where some 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.119 of the more prominent products were there. But we've we've 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:22.840 since spent three days walking around the convention floor, probably 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.000 around thirty miles on foot something like that. My legs 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.039 and back are falling apart. Yeah, we've turned you into 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:32.840 an old man. Um, but we have we have learned 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.440 what the future is going to be. Uh and I 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:38.120 am I'm boy howdy. I'm excited to tell the folks 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.440 what they can expect. Garrison, where do you? Where do 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.920 you think we should start? Let's start with some of 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:47.960 the more COLLAPSEI type things revolving around crypto, because crypto 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:50.520 was kind of Crypto was kind of like the white 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.960 elephant in the c e s because this is happening 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:59.200 right after the FTX fiasco, so it's it's kind of 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.440 it's kind of weird. It was we saw it printed 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:05.400 the word crypto and web three point oh printed on 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:07.920 more stuff than I heard people talk about. Yeah, people 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:10.440 are People were not talking about it the way I 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.639 think they would have been. Definitely definitely last even even 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.600 like a few months ago. M hm. And that was 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:21.000 really interesting. Um. We did sit in at one crypto 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:25.440 industry event where it was a group of like French regulators, 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:30.160 UM and French crypto business people talking about what they 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.280 felt like regulations were basically in the in the wake 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:35.920 of the FTX collapse, what kind of regulations did they 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:39.160 think would make crypto work? And you might have got 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:41.760 more than I did, Garrison, because they couldn't get their 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:46.239 microphones to work. Their microphone stopped working, then they're backup 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:50.680 microphone stopped working, and then they got a third backup mike, 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:52.799 which is a little tiny lav mike that they had 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.919 to finish the speaking into a tiny little lava lier mike. 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:00.760 And you were amplifying it and sending hain ful feedback 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.720 into everyone's ears. And look, they're gonna be defending the 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.840 traditional financial system. But I will bet you when a 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:12.640 bunch of Goldman Sachs bankers get up on stage, microphones work. Yeah. 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.360 I mean that was just the one thing in a 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:20.600 long line of crypto and metaverse kind of fiascos that 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.720 we ran into at ces WE the first night we 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:24.959 got here, we were going to be going to a 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:30.440 crypto happy hour UM that was supposed to be held 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.000 at a bar called The Nerd on Fremont Street. You've 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.720 never been to Fremont Street Fremont Street is old Las Vegas, 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.320 so it's the worst part of town. Um, there's a gigantic, 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.760 fucking football field, long l c D screen above you 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:46.720 that plays animated versions of God Bless America. How do 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.640 you feel about Fremont Street? Here? Nightmare? Horrible, the cigar chy, 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:56.040 The smell walking back to the car was something. I 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.680 don't think I'll ever forget that smell. By the way, folks, 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:01.320 one of the things you're going to get from this 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:05.960 is a travelogue of young Garrison's first trip to Las Vegas. Yeah, um, 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.680 it's been a real one. So we get to Freemont Street. 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:12.040 Nobody is in the nerd. Um No, the nerd is 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.360 completely empty. It's a it's a bowling alley bar, which 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:18.800 sounds like a great idea, but it was completely deserted. 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:20.919 There was there was not a single soul and I 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.320 poked my head in. It was all under harsh purple 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:27.000 light and completely empty. And this is this is like 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.280 off off a Freemont Street, so like there's there were 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:33.200 plenty of people around on street and the music music 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:37.599 was blaring both inside and outside. Completely dead. Um. So 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:40.760 once this so we we saw this being empty, so 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.080 we checked the email for the crypto party again and 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:47.440 they said there there there was another location list, which 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:51.719 there's obviously just to clarify, there was the party invitation 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:53.160 thing that you would click in the list of c 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.640 S parties, and it had one invitation, one location, and 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.640 then there was also what you got emailed, which was 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.440 a secon separate location. There was zero indication as to 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:04.440 which was accurate. So we decided to go to the 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:07.000 other location listed because no one was at this one, 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.640 which was which was called the go to bar. Yes, 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:19.039 immediately immediately upon pulling up, we got great impressions. Uh yeah, 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.200 it was the hole in the wall, a little box, 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:27.000 uh window list box, windows box. All of the letters 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:29.159 were coming off of the science. It was impossible to 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.840 tell what they had, and they were descending in an 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:36.040 almost artful manner. It's like there's a photo on my Twitter. 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:39.320 We'll probably use it to headline this episode. It's beautiful. 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.120 It's like, I don't know if someone could have intentionally 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.640 intentionally placed those as well as they were. It was. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.040 It was a perfect microcosm of this entire thing. Um, 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:52.000 we went inside, very nice people. The person there said 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:57.280 that the party wasn't happening here anymore, but that this 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:00.400 bar is the Crypto guys the usual hang out spot, 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:04.800 which was a glorious sentence to here, not a big 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:09.159 money location. And look, I I've drink, I've drinking a 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:11.720 lot of dive bars. I have both been poor and 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:17.040 in need of alcohol for much of my life. This is, um, 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:19.320 this is a classic dive bar. This is really really 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.839 And by that I mean not the kind of like 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.440 like trying to play it being a dive bar so 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:27.279 that people feel like they're getting the dive bar. I 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.839 mean like you will get tetanus from the bathroom dive bar. 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.680 It was great. Just the fact that that the person 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:38.440 like running the bar referred to this as their regular hangouts, 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.640 referred to this as the Crypto guys regular hangout spot, 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.840 is just warm into my heart. My biggest regret from 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.480 this trip is that we didn't stay for karaoke, but yeah, 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:52.040 we had other plans. Yeah, so that probably leads us 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:54.120 into meta There's not a lot else to say about 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:56.040 Christ was the which is the other kind of like 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.880 but both like Crypto n f T s a metaverse. 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.800 We're all kind of trying to piggyback off each other. 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.400 And I think metaverse has survived the best out of 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.320 those three US. It's doing better than Crypto and n 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:11.800 f t S, which isn't saying much UM but but 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.320 even still, I think there was a slight It was 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:16.680 weird some people were trying to emphasize that the metaverse aspects. 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:20.040 Some people were trying to empasize just the VR aspect. Yeah, 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.480 the UM there. I saw metaverse and meta around, but 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:27.000 when I would go to the company's advertising various VR products, 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:32.200 they would usually were focused more often on other applications 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.520 for VR tech technology, Like I kind of get the 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:37.920 feeling again, a lot of them ordered stuff with Meta 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.760 on it before it became clear what a disaster it was, 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.040 and there's some backing for this. So for one week 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.160 we went and we saw UM Magic Leap, which is 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:50.720 a company that makes VR headsets and VR programs. Um 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:54.960 They have had pretty disastrous sales to the consumer market, 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:57.720 even though they's a very good product because it's really 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.280 high end and people aren't willing to spend hours on 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.760 a headset, and kind of prior to CE S sort 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.920 of reoriented themselves trying to sell to enterprise and and 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:10.040 trying to like move units uh, in like an industrial 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.440 capacity for people doing like training, and it's one of 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:14.600 those things one of the things you can do with 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.360 VR as you can sit a guy down, um and 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:19.600 have someone remotely explained to him how to fix or 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:23.040 repair something if he's less anyway, So they were showcasing 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.400 a lot of that as opposed to games. And certainly 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:27.800 no one tried to make me hop and do a 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:33.200 fucking Horizon Worlds or even VR chat. There wasn't much 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:38.400 in terms of like trying to advertise their their their 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:43.000 software hardware for building like virtual concerts I probably have 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:44.960 a lot of It was way more enterprise and like 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.000 you know, workplace training, and a lot a lot more 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:51.920 very like practical applications were gaming or gaming, but like 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.040 in terms of like what the like the high end 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:59.080 you know, expensive, big big VR producers were. Therefore, they 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.839 were definitely pivoting or at least at least showcasing the 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.400 applications that were more for enterprise. Yeah, and that that's 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:07.320 what I found really interesting because I probably had a 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:10.880 dozen different VR headsets on my head at some point. 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:15.319 Uh And and not once was I dropped into like 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:19.199 the kind of metaverse type thing that Facebook is and 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:23.240 again none of their products were on display. Um. Meta 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.200 Facebook was not here at all. There was another company 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.120 called Meta that I think that's some kind of machining, 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:30.760 which was funny because the Meta booth was just some 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:35.760 completely different company. Yeah. Um. But in terms of circling 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.840 back to the collapse aspect of the Metaverse, so Night 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.439 one was this failed crypto party where we went to 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.600 two locations and they were at neither one of them. 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.439 They weren't Night too. We signed up for an invite 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:50.719 to a metaverse party, and I can't tell you how 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.319 excited we were for this Metaverse. We were actually very well. 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:57.440 For one thing, legs are now in the Metaverse, and 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.439 Garrison's never experienced legs, so I was really cited for 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.280 them to see that. Yeah, I only had the quest 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.640 one which did which did not include legs. I was 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.200 also psyched to maybe make a big red robot friend, 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.080 like in that horrible video that Mark Zuckerberg made where 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:14.800 his friends are playing poker on a spaceship. So the 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.760 party on the invite that we request, like, you couldn't 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:19.600 just show up, you need you need to request an 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.040 invite and like get a ticket, and we got four tickets. 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.480 We got four tickets to this Metaverse party. It was 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.360 first for it first said it was at the Palazzo 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.439 um about Polazzo being part of the Venetian And about 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.480 two hours before the party they said it was no 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.440 longer at the Polazzo and instead where we were supposed 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.360 to meet them at the uh at that at the 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:43.280 fountain at the fountains outside of the Blaggio, which one 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:45.960 of the big famous Vegas landmarks and quite far away 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:50.360 from the Venetian. Yeah, because um the Venetians where half 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.240 of CS was taking. The other half was in the 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.760 Las Vegas Convention Center. So we make our our jaunty 0:10:55.840 --> 0:11:02.280 walk over to to Blaggio. We get there and we 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.000 realized that we have to do we have to use 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.440 this application on our phones for the for the Metaverse 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.400 party thing to work. It's like this a R application 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:13.800 that and they did tell you if you have a 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.000 VR headset you should bring it. Yeah, I think one 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:19.480 person did at least, and bringing a charged phone, bring 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.920 a charge phone, bring your headphones. So we all, you know, 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.280 open up this QR code or whatever or link to 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:31.160 try to get this software working. And around twenty people 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:34.280 there are all are all met with perpetual loading screens. 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.600 Now a few people did have I saw one or 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:42.120 two people that this was working for. Mine loaded just 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.280 the VR avatars of people, but it was on like 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.360 a gray background. But it didn't look any of the 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.240 background or any of the the way it was supposed 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:53.400 to look. Because one guy had it more or less working. 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:57.040 I think it was basically it was a video like 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.760 a live feed of the Bellagio Fountain in front of 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.600 us because as his like camera scanned over it, it's 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:04.720 using the phone camera all of the different like a 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:09.559 bunch of different awkwardly jerking avatars kind of crudely dancing. Yeah, 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:15.200 in front of it. They did have legs ringing endorsement. Yeah, 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:17.280 it was. It was It was supposed to be that 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.319 it was supposed to be. This this a r animated 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:23.720 experience thing sinc to the Blagio Fountain and to Viva 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:26.000 las Vegas, and that was what it was supposed to be. 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:28.320 The thing is only one or two people it was 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.000 working for. Everyone else had these loading screens or had 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.120 just the just had the avatars popped in with none 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:39.920 of the other features working um as before the Pelagio founded. 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:44.679 Like just like the guy the guy who was Reviva 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:50.000 before the final Viva, the guy running this party left. 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.679 He was gone quite rapidly. He exited the premises. He 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.480 took advantage of the pact fact that people were confused 0:12:57.480 --> 0:12:59.800 and trying to figure out what was happening, and he escaped. 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.480 So we have all like twenty people not sure what 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:07.360 to do, and then we get we get an email 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.640 like ten minutes later saying that thank you for coming 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:14.280 to the show of I hope you enjoy your time 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.160 at beer Park, which is across the street. Your Park 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:18.719 is a place, by the way. I know it's it 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.440 seems like a joke name, but it's quite large business. 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.640 So we were told that the party had a reservation 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:26.559 at beer Park and that we were all going to 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:28.959 go over to beer Park and you know, by the way, 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.480 the people heading up there. It's not just like pieces 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.400 of ship like us. There's like some serious industry people, 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:38.360 like people who are including like the CEO of arguably 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.880 the most prominent virtual reality game company. Yeah there was 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.480 the CEO or whatever, the CEO. Yeah, you like, there 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:46.560 was people who who have been involved in very popular 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:51.800 VR games, who are industry industry entrepreneurs, engineers. Yeah, and 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.480 other other other like VR enthusiasts and then also people 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:56.040 like us, I assume who just wanted to watch it 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.520 crash and burn, which it did. It was just there 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:05.760 to be the sickos in the window laughing. Yes, So 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.240 we're told they have that. They were told that they 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:10.800 have the reservation for beer Park. Like, okay, well, the 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.400 a R technology didn't work. That's that's a bummer. You know, 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.640 it would not happen. It's not the first failed demo 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.800 I've seen. It's stuff happens. Maybe they didn't test it 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:23.080 for how many people was there? They thought too many? Yeah, 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.240 like who like actually who knows? Um, but at least 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.720 we can hang out with people. But so but the guy, 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.680 the guy running the party laughs, so he's just gone, uh. 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.280 But everyone else makes make you know, like you know, 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:37.200 like a dozen or a dozens of people make our 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:41.040 way over to beer Park and we're told that there 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.480 is in fact no reservation for this party. But he 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.600 has called them. They don't know what we're talking about. 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:51.120 Could we please get out of the way. So we 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:52.720 start our way to have this staircase and that we 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.520 then we that we stop halfway down because someone at 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.000 beer Park says, there is like there's a bar in 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.960 the very back of of of and they're not selling 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.360 alcohol there, but you guys can stand around and buy 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.640 from other places. We can stand there. As they figured 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:11.120 out what's going on, we later learn that the that 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.120 the guy who's who's running the party, who's who did 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.600 not show up, uh, did have a did have a 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.920 reservation for six people at one table. Yeah, Garrison, that 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:23.000 man hung himself at Circus Circus within thirty minutes of 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.200 the show. I do know. He actually made his way 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:27.760 over to beer Park at some point, but he did 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:30.080 not go to where everyone else was going. He was 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.720 at the other side of the bar, but he was 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:38.120 not talking to anyone else from the party. So that was. 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:41.480 That was the second party we went to, which was 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:47.160 of a similar level of competency. So that is that 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.760 is the crypto and people did show up for the 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.280 second part. So I'm gonna have to give it to 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:56.480 the metaverse. I mean, they change locations three times from 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.080 the Plaza to the Blagia Fountain to be a park 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.760 um with you know, variety of issues along the way. 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.440 In terms of the VR stuff, we actually got to try, 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.480 so Robert tried like I think three or four different 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.840 haptic feedbacks. I tried every haptic product I could find, 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.280 and haptic again, for the folks who don't know this, 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.640 whenever you like touch your phone and it like buzzes 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.320 like let you know that you're you're typing or whatever. Um, 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.760 that's haptic feedback, And that's kind of the crudest form 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.080 of it. But the idea and the hope of the 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.360 people kind of playing with the technologies that you can 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.760 find ways to basically like simulate a keyboard so that 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.160 you would be able to touch type in a keyboard 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:37.200 that's not really there because you know, you would be 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.520 wearing a glove or something that would simulate the feeling 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:41.440 so well. And so this is a key part of 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:43.560 when you think about, like what would it take to 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.280 go from where VR is now, which is a pretty 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:50.320 visually immersive and can be a pretty auditorially immersive experience, 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.520 but that leaves the rest of your body isn't there, yeah, 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.600 um to something that is kind of more like a 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:01.360 holidack where you feel and and like can you know 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.920 even people have talked about like smell eVision and stuff, 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:07.560 which um is a little further behind, but like it's 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:11.720 something that's actually engaging the entirety of your of your 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.360 physical person at the very at least not being able 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.280 to like walk through walls, or at least more of 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.920 your physical person than just your head and eyes and ears. UM. 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.040 So that's that's the goal. So the first one I 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.520 tried was the tax suit, which basically feels like and 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:29.520 I wrote this was in the last episode. It feels 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.320 like having much of in sixty four bumble packs on 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.320 your body. It does not mimic the feeling of hugging 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.640 or touching a human being. Another one that we tried, 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:39.439 I tried one that was just gloves that did a 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.480 pretty good job of and and the tax suit gloves 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.560 did a pretty good job of mimicking keyboards UM, which 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:47.480 is kind of interesting. I don't think it would allow 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:49.280 me to touch type, but it was it was neat 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:51.960 to see that kind of developing a little bit. UM. 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.760 Then we tried one by O W O. It's like 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.960 big capital O S little W We're just going to 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.199 call it oh oh oh um. And that was like 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:05.040 a full body um suit, where it's basically it's like 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.159 a skin tight like a workout shirt UM with a 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.000 bunch of e G pads underneath it, so the e 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.520 G pads make direct connection to your skin. And then 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.359 if you have ever engaged in the kind of kinky 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.879 sex play that involves like a violet wand, which is 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:24.800 a device that erotically electrocutes you or your partner, you 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:26.480 can also like drawing each other with it. Or if 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:29.280 you've ever used like any of those fake sex cattle 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.680 prods they used to sell them at the kink dot 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:35.239 Com arena in that old Castle in San Francisco, if 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:37.359 you ever used any of those, it's like that, So 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.920 you're just like getting zapped a bunch all over your body. 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:43.040 And on the low settings it's kind of like a 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:47.680 nicer massage gun thing, and on the higher settings it's 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:52.600 actually really cruciating. It's actually I tried this one today. 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:55.120 I put on the little skin tight and jumper thing, 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.240 and even just during the calibration settings, it was really 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:02.080 fascinating because it's even though the electrodes are only on 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.560 like a few of your muscle sections that the current 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:08.480 runs through, and it doesn't really it doesn't necessarily have 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.399 like you know, like a taser shocky feeling. It just 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:15.920 it just is like muscle pain it's involuntarily contracting your muscle. Yeah, 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:19.119 so it's it's it's not just like static e shocky stuff. 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:23.359 Um there was you know, get you know. The cool 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:25.760 thing about this is that it can simulate you know, 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.560 an entry round and an exit wound. So Robert was 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.520 playing the popular VR game Pistol Whip where you get 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:34.320 shot by dudes and you do like a John Wick 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:36.760 thing basically, and you can feel you know, like bullet 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.440 goes in, bullet goes out. Yeah and yeah. So it's 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.800 not just like a rumbull pack type things actually depth 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:44.600 to the feeling. And one of the things they simulated 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.080 it was really cool is getting stabbed and then having 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.359 the knife twist was the worst with the worst feeling 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.800 for me is like honestly like getting shot in like 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:55.199 the Chester shoulders. It was. It was painful, but it 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:57.200 wasn't necessary. It wasn't like painful on like a bad way. 0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:58.720 He was like, Oh, I'm playing a game and this 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.080 is this, this is a published and it's it hurts, 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.800 but it's kind of fun. The stabbing was awful. I 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.080 would seek to avoid it. It was very painful because 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.800 all the all the stuff like below my chest was 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:13.359 way more uncomfortable and painful versus like chest and arms 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.280 was kind of was kind of fun. Yeah, And I 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:19.760 don't know again whether or not you find this appealing 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:21.000 will have to do with the way that you like 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:24.040 to do your video games. But what I will say 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:26.680 is that from a perspective of just like enjoying a 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.360 an FPS type game, it it is the first time 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:32.320 I've been playing a game that's had some sort of 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:37.159 feedback when you're hit that actually is negative reinforcement, like 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:39.919 you do not want to get hit um and you 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.240 actually kind of dread getting hit. It. Actually it makes 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:46.760 the game a lot more immersive. Yeah, and like this 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:49.800 that's that's that that's like a bullshit phrase people use 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:51.960 for like this is immersive, Like no, this actually like 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:55.160 this actually introducing consequence thought. I think that they put 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:57.040 into something like how do we simulate a knife wound? 0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:59.160 How do we actually do like a through and through gunshot? 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:01.639 And and it all so makes your makes your VR 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.400 body feel more connected to your actual body, yeah, which 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:07.119 is something that usually doesn't happen. Yeah, you feel a 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.800 sense of like defensiveness towards your person um and it 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:12.800 like when I was trying to like dodge the bullets 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:15.719 and ship like I actually felt it didn't just kind 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.040 of feel like I was playing a game, Like my 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.480 body felt more on the line, which was Which is 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.280 interesting because this is purely we're talking about this kind 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:26.040 of in the context of stuff that matters, and the 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:29.200 stuff that matters here, not that gaming doesn't matter, but 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:33.040 the stuff that actually matters here is the ability of 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:38.520 people to simulate accurately life in a digital form. Because 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:40.480 if that can be done, then a lot of other 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.280 weird things are possible, many of which you're good, some 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:45.960 of what you're bad, many of what you're bad. Um, 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.800 I mean, I think the next the next day we're 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:51.640 talking about has a bit more packed complication. And because 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:53.680 that's what I want to say, all the only application 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:56.000 I saw for this was in gaming. This does not 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:58.879 I didn't see like a metaverse application of this, Like 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:00.960 this is not going to help in Zuckerberg, Like you 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:04.320 don't want to unless you can get mugged in the 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:08.520 metaverse and some some asshole ten you're will lock up 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.280 to you with a knife and stab you. Well, you know, 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:13.719 that's a good point when we're talking about is it 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:17.560 possible that people will be living increasing quantity like portions 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:21.239 of their life in persistent digital environments. One thing I 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:23.800 would not want to have as a suit like this 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:28.040 because people will find ways to access it well. And 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:30.200 we've talked to we've talked to some people who program 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:32.440 for these things, who are like other versions of them, 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:35.399 but the metaverse actually at the Metaverse party, they funk 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:38.000 up and it's like getting electrocuted. You can't take it 0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:40.840 off yourself. It's a serious problem. There is a competing 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:43.520 model to the Obo suit called the Tesla Suit, not 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:47.160 not made by Elon Musk's Tesla, different company, but similar 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:50.199 similar degrees of care towards safety. Maybe I mean it 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:53.560 is this is the most high end haptic suit that 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:57.240 does this electro shock thing. Um And he said that 0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:00.919 he has watched demos where people have been in the 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:03.520 suit and the suit like glitches and all of the 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:07.200 things turn on and like at full capacity, which means 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:10.200 you're you you're get You're not only in extruciating pain, 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:12.480 you also you also just like can't move your body, 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:17.639 like you're stuck frozen in horrible pain until someone turns 0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:19.880 the suit off. So like there is there is this 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:23.080 type of like logistical problems with with these sort of 0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:25.399 things as well, and it's one of those. Like the 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:27.919 first that I had when using that thing was like, 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:31.320 this is kind of neat, uh, this what makes this 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:34.520 actually would make certain video games better. And the second 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.119 thought I had was, I would only ever want to 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:39.280 have this on if I was playing a video game 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:42.240 that was not connected to the Internet, because the instant 0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:44.880 I would never want to invocage in a multiplayer game 0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:48.640 where I could be that it would be horrible constantly. Bet. 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:52.040 I mean obviously, like you you can have lower settings 0:23:52.040 --> 0:23:54.360 on these things to make it not painful at all, 0:23:55.000 --> 0:23:57.040 and you do get to pick that. But I I 0:23:57.080 --> 0:23:59.600 tried to go as far as I could. But in 0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:03.280 terms of practical applications beyond just gaming, the next haptic 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:09.040 suit that we tried, this company is working with governments. 0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:13.119 Haptics is the is the is the company. We know 0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:15.720 that they do the thing where they like remove our 0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:20.440 um and they have they have military contracts. We we 0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:23.320 we saw we saw army people testing it out, two 0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:26.840 employees of the United States Army, but they already are 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:30.840 working with law enforcement UM well and you know industrial 0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:34.560 government training video of Jeff Bezos us with their products 0:24:34.560 --> 0:24:37.680 to like wirelessly control a robot that's like based off 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:40.200 of human hands in order to do that. But they 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:42.720 work with governments, they work with businesses, corporations. This is 0:24:42.840 --> 0:24:45.560 this isn't really a consumer thing at this point because 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:48.560 the full suit, I think they said the next it's 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:50.879 going to be like eighty thou dollars. No, No, the 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:54.640 the gloves are four thousand, the gloves and battery pack. 0:24:54.840 --> 0:24:57.399 The next full suit that they're doing, it's gonna be 0:24:57.440 --> 0:25:02.040 eighty thou dollars or four months subscription. But that's for 0:25:02.080 --> 0:25:04.640 their suit that's not even released yet. That is their 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:09.880 next model. Yeah, not a consumer Like theoretically, if you're 0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:13.560 willing to pay the monthly fee, you could have this thing, um, 0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:15.879 but that's not the intent. But I think what's interesting 0:25:15.920 --> 0:25:18.600 about it is this is kind of where all of 0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:21.080 the technology is going and and the main difference is 0:25:21.119 --> 0:25:25.159 that the haptics that we had used on us in 0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:27.720 the lower end gaming products, where again they're basically just 0:25:27.800 --> 0:25:30.840 kind of like shocking you a bunch in specific ways 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:35.760 or just like vibrating, yeah, or just like vibrating, whereas 0:25:36.359 --> 0:25:39.439 this suit used air prect is like pneumatic, so it 0:25:39.480 --> 0:25:41.879 was basically you have these gloves on, and the gloves 0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:45.040 are much more cumbersome than the other gloves. Um. You 0:25:45.119 --> 0:25:48.800 have these gloves on and they're like blowing air onto 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:52.160 you parts of your hand. It's it's it's compressed air 0:25:52.280 --> 0:25:56.439 that that that feeds into these little sensor things that 0:25:56.480 --> 0:26:00.200 actually go in they they make contact with your again 0:26:00.720 --> 0:26:05.719 and so you're the feeling is is real um in 0:26:05.760 --> 0:26:09.840 a way that the other haptic stuff isn't UM. And 0:26:10.240 --> 0:26:12.200 it doesn't. First off, it does not actually it does 0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:14.199 not feel like you're getting pots of air blown on 0:26:14.240 --> 0:26:15.840 your hands. No, it does not. M One of the 0:26:15.880 --> 0:26:17.760 things that they did in there is they simulated holding 0:26:17.760 --> 0:26:20.160 your hand under a leak with drops of I think 0:26:20.160 --> 0:26:21.919 it was oil in that, but like drops of a 0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:24.919 liquid coming down on your hand, and it felt like 0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:28.240 having water cup pour onto your hands without wetness, which 0:26:28.240 --> 0:26:32.760 is an odd feeling. UM. But the they had like 0:26:32.800 --> 0:26:35.800 a bonzaiet tree which kind of felt like it felt 0:26:35.800 --> 0:26:40.159 like a prickly almost yeah, it felt it felt like 0:26:41.200 --> 0:26:43.960 it felt like a prickly plant. Running your hands through 0:26:44.000 --> 0:26:46.200 both plants. If you'd closed your eyes and you'd run 0:26:46.200 --> 0:26:48.240 your hands through both plants, they would feel like different 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:50.800 plants um, And one thing you could do is you 0:26:50.840 --> 0:26:53.960 could grab the vine with leaves on it and pull 0:26:54.000 --> 0:26:56.159 your hand down. The leaves would come off the way 0:26:56.200 --> 0:26:58.879 they would in a real vine and felt it. You 0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:00.600 can feel it. And then you're hand is full of 0:27:00.640 --> 0:27:02.399 leaves at the end and you feel them too as 0:27:02.440 --> 0:27:04.560 they like slide off of your hand, which is a 0:27:04.640 --> 0:27:08.000 kind of fidelity I didn't really realize was possible at 0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:10.840 the moment um. There was other stuff that really there 0:27:10.920 --> 0:27:13.119 was some stuff that worked better than like the turning 0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:16.679 wheels and stuff was kind of like whatever. Um, the 0:27:16.720 --> 0:27:19.320 knobs and buttons weren't great. I actually thought that the 0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:23.520 weak point was turning knobs. It just felt kind of 0:27:23.520 --> 0:27:28.680 shocky um. But the straw. There was one where the rope. Yeah, 0:27:28.680 --> 0:27:31.040 there was a rope hanging from the ceiling, so you 0:27:31.040 --> 0:27:32.960 could like pull it to like it was kind of 0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:35.400 like attached to you were on basically like a fake 0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:37.280 airship in this guy, so it's kind of like attached 0:27:37.280 --> 0:27:39.960 to a horn. So you could pull the rope and 0:27:40.000 --> 0:27:42.200 then you could the way you can grab a rope 0:27:42.240 --> 0:27:44.880 and pull it down hand over hand. You could pull 0:27:44.920 --> 0:27:48.399 it and it felt like it felt just like pulling 0:27:48.400 --> 0:27:51.440 a rope through your hand like it was like if 0:27:51.640 --> 0:27:54.800 if I was if I had no near perfect fidelity, 0:27:55.280 --> 0:27:58.399 if I had no like visual sensory perception, I would 0:27:58.400 --> 0:28:01.520 think I am pulling a rope through my hand. It 0:28:01.640 --> 0:28:04.439 felt perfect. And there there were there was a moment 0:28:04.480 --> 0:28:06.919 where I was at a desk and I had to 0:28:06.960 --> 0:28:09.679 open it, and so I like, I pull like and 0:28:09.760 --> 0:28:12.399 normally in VR, if you're like opening a desk or something, 0:28:12.440 --> 0:28:14.600 you just kind of like grab and pull in the 0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:17.800 right area and it opens the drawer. This I I 0:28:17.880 --> 0:28:20.600 felt like there was a big metal kind of like 0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:23.000 hook thing that glast that you get your hand up 0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:24.960 into pull. So I pull it out and I feel 0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:28.439 my hand inside that thing as I pull it. And 0:28:28.440 --> 0:28:31.000 then at a certain point I stuck my hand into 0:28:31.000 --> 0:28:33.000 the drawer to push it open the rest of the way, 0:28:33.000 --> 0:28:35.359 which I do on real drawers when they get stuck. 0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:37.600 And it worked the same way that it does in 0:28:37.680 --> 0:28:40.239 a real drawer, and it it felt like one I mean. 0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:42.680 And the other thing that was impressive about that is 0:28:42.720 --> 0:28:46.880 that even just I I instinctually picked up a mug 0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:49.200 by putting like half my hand inside the mug and 0:28:49.240 --> 0:28:51.520 holding onto the other side, which you can't really you 0:28:51.560 --> 0:28:53.840 can't do that if you're using VR controllers, and you 0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:55.720 can't even do that if you're doing like hand tracking, 0:28:55.760 --> 0:28:58.120 It just it just doesn't work. But that you you 0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:00.880 put your hand in pinch both sides of the mug 0:29:00.880 --> 0:29:03.560 and picked it up and like just that by itself, 0:29:03.680 --> 0:29:06.480 like as you're like feeling the mug in your hands, 0:29:06.560 --> 0:29:09.760 like extremely impressive right now, which kind of sounds silly 0:29:09.760 --> 0:29:12.280 because you're talking about like the mechanics of grabbing a mug, 0:29:12.600 --> 0:29:17.320 but it's it's actually also talking the capacity for mimicking 0:29:17.640 --> 0:29:23.120 reality with close to perfect fidelity, which um I would 0:29:23.160 --> 0:29:25.120 not have guessed walking into the show you could do 0:29:25.160 --> 0:29:27.920 the things that we're doing. Yeah, and and we talked. 0:29:27.920 --> 0:29:31.680 We talked to one of the products managers they're they're 0:29:31.720 --> 0:29:35.400 talking where they were speaking about how how they're using 0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:38.680 this for workplace training, but also even even talking about 0:29:38.680 --> 0:29:41.400 how you don't want to just use this tech for 0:29:41.440 --> 0:29:43.680 workplace training because then people will get too used to 0:29:44.640 --> 0:29:47.040 doing it in VR and then when they actually go 0:29:47.120 --> 0:29:49.320 into the real world will actually be completely lost because 0:29:49.360 --> 0:29:51.000 it's not close enough to to the VR. So they 0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:53.800 actually talked about how you know VR it can only 0:29:53.840 --> 0:29:55.760 do so much you want to you want to use 0:29:55.800 --> 0:29:58.520 you know, VR training as a supplemental thing for also 0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:00.560 in person training and kind of go back and forth 0:30:00.720 --> 0:30:03.040 so that you actually stay grounded in what you're gonna 0:30:03.080 --> 0:30:05.600 be actually doing. But then you can also use the 0:30:05.680 --> 0:30:08.240 VR as an assistant, so you can you know, train 0:30:08.320 --> 0:30:10.200 it on, you can train on your own, but also 0:30:10.240 --> 0:30:12.400 you get to apply it to the real world so 0:30:12.440 --> 0:30:14.880 you don't get stuck just doing the stuff in the 0:30:15.000 --> 0:30:16.640 in the digital world, which I thought was an interesting 0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:20.480 comment from the person who's like trying to sell the technology. Yeah, yeah, which, yeah, 0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:21.880 And that was kind of the thing. One of the 0:30:21.920 --> 0:30:23.640 neat things about c E S. So most of the 0:30:23.640 --> 0:30:26.320 people you encounter and and CS for those of you 0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:28.640 have never been to a trade show, it's rooms that 0:30:28.680 --> 0:30:31.200 are bigger than you ever thought. Rooms could be filled 0:30:31.240 --> 0:30:35.640 with thousands of booths, and some of the booths contain 0:30:36.600 --> 0:30:40.400 earth movers by the company CAT that are like the 0:30:40.480 --> 0:30:43.560 size of a mansion in terms of their actual like mass, 0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:47.440 and some of the booths are crazy person sitting with 0:30:47.480 --> 0:30:50.920 his homemade air conditioner and his cut open gloves explaining 0:30:50.960 --> 0:30:52.480 to you the new way he's figured out how to 0:30:52.520 --> 0:30:56.320 make air condition your coils. Um, and so you get 0:30:56.320 --> 0:30:58.680 this mix of At the big corporate booths, a lot 0:30:58.680 --> 0:31:01.680 of the time, like p are people who are hired 0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:03.800 to sell a line and don't know what they're talking 0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:06.080 about and they're just trying to hype a product. And 0:31:06.120 --> 0:31:09.680 then inventors uh and people who like have are actually 0:31:09.800 --> 0:31:11.560 have actually made the thing in front of you and 0:31:11.600 --> 0:31:15.360 are very excited about it and are kind of incapable 0:31:15.400 --> 0:31:18.840 of bullshitting you. Sometimes they believe irrationally in their products, 0:31:18.840 --> 0:31:23.440 but they don't they're not pr people. UM. And yeah, 0:31:23.560 --> 0:31:26.720 I got that that feeling from the from the haptic people. 0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:30.040 We should move on from metaverse, so I want to 0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:31.920 talk about some of the other since we're doing the good. 0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:35.120 The other products we saw or things that we saw 0:31:35.120 --> 0:31:37.560 in mentions. We saw that that I made me kind 0:31:37.600 --> 0:31:40.880 of hopeful about aspects of the future. So we we 0:31:40.920 --> 0:31:44.560 saw some a R glasses and again VR is immersive. 0:31:44.680 --> 0:31:47.040 A R is just kind of putting an overlay from 0:31:47.040 --> 0:31:50.040 the digital world on the regular ship. You're wearing glasses 0:31:50.080 --> 0:31:54.040 and you're seeing something that a computer is showing you. Um. 0:31:54.400 --> 0:31:56.720 One of the things that we saw that I was 0:31:56.800 --> 0:31:59.880 most impressed by was by a company called zis v 0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:04.160 U z I x UM, and it was there Zander glasses, 0:32:04.240 --> 0:32:07.680 Zander with an X, like the guy from Buffy. UM. 0:32:07.760 --> 0:32:10.440 And these are glasses that are designed to provide real 0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:13.280 time captioning those with hearing loss. So you are wearing 0:32:13.320 --> 0:32:16.239 them and you are conversing with people all around you, 0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:18.920 and you see every word that's being set around you, 0:32:18.960 --> 0:32:21.760 including the words you say on screen in front of 0:32:21.760 --> 0:32:27.880 you live caption ing. UM. And it worked extremely I 0:32:27.920 --> 0:32:30.400 didn't see it miss or funk up any words. It's 0:32:30.400 --> 0:32:32.560 not like punctuated or anything. But it was perfectly easy 0:32:32.600 --> 0:32:35.240 to follow. And it works for all of the voices 0:32:35.280 --> 0:32:38.600 around you. UM to the extent that I could tell. 0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:40.720 And I'm not hard of hearing in a way that 0:32:40.760 --> 0:32:44.320 I need captioning glasses, but I think that if you are, 0:32:45.080 --> 0:32:48.040 this is kind of a miracle product. It worked incredibly 0:32:48.080 --> 0:32:50.920 well as far as I could tell. And UM, I 0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:53.240 think a good amount of thought from what they said, 0:32:53.240 --> 0:32:54.720 at least it seems like a good amount of thought 0:32:54.720 --> 0:32:57.080 went into the fact that if you are acting as 0:32:57.120 --> 0:33:00.400 someone's ears, you have a responsibility to take care of 0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:03.560 their privacy. UM. Because all of it was local. None 0:33:03.600 --> 0:33:05.840 of it was going into the cloud. There's no appar 0:33:06.960 --> 0:33:09.400 ap it doesn't touch your fucking phone. It's just it's 0:33:09.520 --> 0:33:12.280 just the glasses. It's that's all it is. There's no Internet, 0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:15.280 there's no apps, just the glasses. So that was one 0:33:15.320 --> 0:33:17.680 of the coolest things that I think we saw there 0:33:17.840 --> 0:33:22.280 and was just also a fairly rare, legitimate example of 0:33:23.000 --> 0:33:26.480 a need being met through fascinating technology that I think 0:33:26.520 --> 0:33:30.520 could really improve people's lives. Yeah. One of the pair 0:33:30.560 --> 0:33:34.320 of air glasses I tried was by ant Reality Optics. 0:33:34.800 --> 0:33:37.360 They had a few different models. They're the ones that 0:33:37.400 --> 0:33:41.520 make the actual lenses. They had models that were that 0:33:41.560 --> 0:33:43.920 you could switch between A R and VR. It was 0:33:43.920 --> 0:33:47.600 actually pretty impressive how there. They look pretty much like 0:33:47.640 --> 0:33:51.240 regular glasses. Um, the specific A R and VR ones 0:33:51.280 --> 0:33:54.080 look a little bit funky, but they're not. They're not 0:33:54.160 --> 0:33:57.680 completely ridiculous. But you could with a button you could 0:33:57.680 --> 0:34:01.000 switch between having like the A our path through mode too. 0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:03.360 It's like you can see you see the A R 0:34:03.440 --> 0:34:06.000 screen and then but you also see the world around you. 0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:08.600 Then you can hit to the VR mode and it 0:34:08.640 --> 0:34:12.800 blacks out the real world and you just see the 0:34:12.880 --> 0:34:14.920 VR stuff and that that was. That was pretty impressive. 0:34:15.160 --> 0:34:19.879 They also had a full frame A R glasses that 0:34:20.120 --> 0:34:23.239 again looked look look relatively normal in terms of like, 0:34:23.280 --> 0:34:25.839 you know, this is the regular pair of glasses. And 0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:28.040 but this was the only pair of air glasses I 0:34:28.080 --> 0:34:30.840 saw at the show that had the A R going 0:34:31.080 --> 0:34:33.920 over the course of like the entire lens. All the 0:34:33.920 --> 0:34:36.000 other ones had like a little box that they operated 0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:40.080 in in some cases up your vision when you didn't 0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:43.319 have yeah, and it's like hard to it's hard for 0:34:43.400 --> 0:34:45.880 your eye. Yeah, and it's hard it's hard for your 0:34:45.880 --> 0:34:48.640 eye to know what to focus on. Um. But this 0:34:48.840 --> 0:34:51.680 the A R was was over. There was was across 0:34:51.760 --> 0:34:54.799 the entirety of the lens, and that one was was 0:34:54.960 --> 0:34:59.000 very nice to uh to test out. Now. I think 0:34:59.080 --> 0:35:01.440 one of the things that we're kind of talking around 0:35:01.480 --> 0:35:04.319 here is the fact that if you've paid attention to this, 0:35:04.360 --> 0:35:06.560 you'll note that none of the really cool stuff we're 0:35:06.600 --> 0:35:11.880 talking about is made by a giant tech Companacebook, Yeah, Facebook, 0:35:11.920 --> 0:35:16.799 Matter or like Samsung, Panasonic, um LG. We went to 0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:19.439 those booths. Those are the largest boosts at the show. 0:35:19.480 --> 0:35:23.360 They're fucking massively million dollar booths. God knows how much money. 0:35:23.600 --> 0:35:27.040 UM Panasonic spent had one of the largest boosts at 0:35:27.040 --> 0:35:29.400 the show, which had probably was tens of millions of dollars. 0:35:29.400 --> 0:35:31.080 It is not cheap to get the list state in 0:35:31.080 --> 0:35:34.319 the LBCC. They had like the third largest booth in 0:35:34.320 --> 0:35:37.880 the entire show. Massive. They didn't really have any of 0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:41.239 the problem. They didn't have any products Panasonic makes things. No, 0:35:41.400 --> 0:35:45.600 they had like they had like two cameras and like 0:35:45.760 --> 0:35:50.440 maybe like ten lenses, but like not not multiple ones 0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:53.799 of those, just those the only two cameras and like 0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:57.640 ten lenses. That that's all they had for this massive, 0:35:57.840 --> 0:36:02.839 massive booths, some fucking TVs and the displays and like 0:36:02.840 --> 0:36:05.960 like not not not displaces for sale. It was like 0:36:06.120 --> 0:36:10.480 just like like projected displays of people using their stuff. 0:36:10.560 --> 0:36:13.520 Like they didn't they didn't have anything to show at all. 0:36:13.719 --> 0:36:17.760 But they did have They did have a breakdancing stage 0:36:18.320 --> 0:36:21.560 and they brought up DJ Funky and his Breakdancing Crew, 0:36:21.840 --> 0:36:24.840 which I swear were pulled right out of Times Square 0:36:24.920 --> 0:36:28.880 in two thousand and three um and just thrust into 0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:32.839 into into our reality. It was deeply awk because it's 0:36:32.840 --> 0:36:37.719 these very like clearly people who spend most of their 0:36:37.760 --> 0:36:41.400 time doing breakdancing shows out in public in streets and 0:36:41.400 --> 0:36:46.400 crowded cities, and a bunch of confused Japanese businessmen just 0:36:46.560 --> 0:36:49.200 like staring back at them, and they're being like, come on, 0:36:49.280 --> 0:36:52.239 come on, make some noise. And the Japanese businessmen are 0:36:52.400 --> 0:36:57.240 continuing to do not want to make any noise. Don't 0:36:57.320 --> 0:37:00.560 understand why this is being asked of them. Um. It 0:37:00.640 --> 0:37:05.399 was extremely funny. Um, but uh yeah. And and that 0:37:05.520 --> 0:37:08.200 was one of kind of the takeaways for me was 0:37:08.920 --> 0:37:12.680 the lack of ideas from big tech. Most of what 0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:17.120 the big companies were showing was like either a million 0:37:17.160 --> 0:37:20.400 different cars and you know, our technologies, this car technology, 0:37:20.480 --> 0:37:23.760 and I'm sure they're all great cars. Cars were very popular. 0:37:25.000 --> 0:37:28.360 That that was one of the bigger trends we saw 0:37:28.640 --> 0:37:31.799 was how much people were pushing their EV cars, which 0:37:31.840 --> 0:37:33.759 is I think if you want to read something about that, 0:37:33.800 --> 0:37:36.600 it's bad news for Tesla. I also don't think it's 0:37:36.600 --> 0:37:38.920 good news for the rest of us, because just replacing 0:37:38.920 --> 0:37:40.360 all of the cars on the road with e V 0:37:40.560 --> 0:37:43.880 cars does not solve many of the fundamental problems that 0:37:44.000 --> 0:37:47.520 we have, including even emissions because even yeah, it's not 0:37:47.560 --> 0:37:50.640 easy to make that a lot of that electricities generated 0:37:50.719 --> 0:37:52.799 and like yeah, some of them look neat. There were 0:37:52.800 --> 0:37:55.160 a lot of e bikes, a lot of a lot 0:37:55.200 --> 0:37:57.200 of e bikes which all look neat, And of course 0:37:57.200 --> 0:37:59.239 that's going to be a huge thing, a big, a 0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:01.480 big imputu for the e bikes right now is that 0:38:02.280 --> 0:38:05.200 Ukrainians have been using them very effectively in combination with 0:38:05.280 --> 0:38:09.480 drones to murder Russian soldiers, and the U. S Military 0:38:09.560 --> 0:38:11.520 is actually put in large orders for e bikes as 0:38:11.560 --> 0:38:13.080 a result of that, So I suspect you're going to 0:38:13.120 --> 0:38:15.960 see a lot more ebikes geared towards military applications too 0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:17.840 in the near future. But like what most of the 0:38:17.920 --> 0:38:23.040 big companies had were like TVs, like like they fucking Samsung, 0:38:23.320 --> 0:38:29.160 like Samsung and LG mostly big TVs, and like LG 0:38:29.360 --> 0:38:31.560 had one that it was like stored in a little 0:38:31.600 --> 0:38:33.279 box where it was all rolled up and it was 0:38:33.360 --> 0:38:35.719 like when you press a button, kind of like the 0:38:36.120 --> 0:38:38.880 you ever had a hotel that has automatic blackout curtains 0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:42.920 that kind of works that way, um, but which is 0:38:42.960 --> 0:38:46.560 like conceptually like, oh, neat, you've developed a TV that 0:38:46.640 --> 0:38:49.359 can fold and put itself away, But also is this 0:38:49.400 --> 0:38:51.719 really better than my current TV in a way that's 0:38:51.760 --> 0:38:54.479 going to alter my life? Is this Like yeah, there isn't. 0:38:54.480 --> 0:38:57.759 There's not much in terms of actual new innovation. Like 0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:01.720 they were trying to make their transparent TVs seem really 0:39:01.719 --> 0:39:03.959 cool and new, but like that's not new tech either. 0:39:04.080 --> 0:39:06.040 It's just that people don't really like using them outside 0:39:06.040 --> 0:39:08.560 of like the corporate space. Yeah, transparent TVs are neat 0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:11.160 for if you're decorating a space, if you're doing like 0:39:11.200 --> 0:39:15.840 a lobby. Likes room because it's a worse experience. But 0:39:15.840 --> 0:39:17.759 but like so like I I think out of all 0:39:17.760 --> 0:39:21.439 the big companies, LG had the best booth experience. Um 0:39:21.480 --> 0:39:24.080 I walked through Samsung after waiting in a massive line 0:39:24.440 --> 0:39:27.040 and all it looked half like a hospital and half 0:39:27.040 --> 0:39:30.120 like an Ikea where you're walking through and they're kind 0:39:30.120 --> 0:39:33.000 of showing you all their different like smart appliance products, 0:39:33.040 --> 0:39:36.160 but nothing is like actually new or innovative. It's all 0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:38.160 it's all the same ship you can find it at 0:39:38.160 --> 0:39:41.080 like the best Buy. It's not it's not cool or interesting. 0:39:41.600 --> 0:39:44.120 You're just waiting in line to walk through these little 0:39:44.640 --> 0:39:47.840 Ikea homes that that, and they show you how you 0:39:47.840 --> 0:39:50.880 can now use you can now use like Microsoft teams 0:39:51.200 --> 0:39:54.120 from your television and you're like, oh, a lot of 0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:57.400 people bragging about their Microsoft Teams integration. Look, you and 0:39:57.440 --> 0:40:00.640 I both have to use Teams for work sometimes always 0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:03.280 the worst part of my day. But but now, but now, Robert, 0:40:03.280 --> 0:40:05.960 with with your new rollable TV, you too can use 0:40:06.000 --> 0:40:10.440 Microsoft Teams. Finally, a rollable TV that automatically takes me 0:40:10.480 --> 0:40:13.640 into my team's room. So would you bootop Microsoft Teams? 0:40:13.640 --> 0:40:15.239 And you and you don't want to be there? When 0:40:15.320 --> 0:40:18.640 I first when I first on Firefox and it says 0:40:18.680 --> 0:40:20.799 this browser is not supported, You're going to have to 0:40:20.920 --> 0:40:25.760 use another browser? Does start Microsoft Teams. You probably wouldn't 0:40:25.800 --> 0:40:27.759 run into that issue. If you had your rollerble TV 0:40:28.120 --> 0:40:29.960 that was a smart TV, they could connect it directly 0:40:29.960 --> 0:40:34.440 to Microsoft Teams. Yeah. Um, I hate it. The Samsung 0:40:34.480 --> 0:40:38.240 booth was horrible. Sony mostly had PlayStations, which is fine, 0:40:38.360 --> 0:40:42.799 that's their people love them stations, and Masonic was a 0:40:42.800 --> 0:40:46.799 complete bust. LG at least had some interesting stuff, like 0:40:47.320 --> 0:40:52.520 they had this one projection powered TV extension room where 0:40:52.760 --> 0:40:55.799 you have you have an image or a three D 0:40:56.320 --> 0:40:59.440 a three D like a three D video file of 0:40:59.640 --> 0:41:02.640 the of the thing on the television that then projects 0:41:02.680 --> 0:41:05.040 out into the entirety of the room at least that 0:41:05.160 --> 0:41:08.000 was cool and new, So there was there was no 0:41:08.080 --> 0:41:11.840 stated release date for this, no stated price point complication 0:41:11.880 --> 0:41:14.480 because honestly, what what movies are going to work in that? Now? 0:41:14.800 --> 0:41:17.200 The answer is that what you want to do is 0:41:17.239 --> 0:41:21.160 you wanna combine that kind of drawing AI and use 0:41:21.200 --> 0:41:23.200 it so you can run a movie through it and 0:41:23.239 --> 0:41:25.560 it will finish the rest of the scenes. So, for example, 0:41:25.840 --> 0:41:28.480 you could put on Boogie Nights that opening scene where 0:41:28.480 --> 0:41:30.919 it's that one long shot as they go through it's 0:41:30.960 --> 0:41:33.600 just all around you, but everyone looks a little wrong 0:41:33.640 --> 0:41:35.880 and their hands are tweaked and fucked up, and we 0:41:35.920 --> 0:41:39.640 have mid Journey continuing up the movie to fill the 0:41:39.640 --> 0:41:41.239 Lord of the Rings. When you look to your right, 0:41:41.320 --> 0:41:43.600 one of the elves has hands that just curl up 0:41:43.680 --> 0:41:48.400 in himself and then you just take a shipload of 0:41:48.400 --> 0:41:51.920 acid and permanently damage your brain. I think the funniest 0:41:51.960 --> 0:41:55.200 thing at the l G Booth though all the despite 0:41:55.239 --> 0:41:58.239 being corny, was still miles miles better than anything else 0:41:58.280 --> 0:42:00.600 in Panasonic or inside Samsung was the Home of the 0:42:00.600 --> 0:42:03.840 Future was. They had three different Home of the Futures, 0:42:03.960 --> 0:42:06.440 which was mostly talking about how do you smart appliances 0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:08.640 and how to integrate them with your phone or whatever. 0:42:08.719 --> 0:42:10.160 That that was most of what they were talking about. 0:42:10.360 --> 0:42:14.120 But they had three actors in each of the home, 0:42:14.200 --> 0:42:18.279 actual ass human being who are kind of kind of 0:42:18.280 --> 0:42:21.239 doing like a kind of doing a presentation, kind of 0:42:21.280 --> 0:42:24.120 doing a fourth wall breaking performance. It's a it was 0:42:24.160 --> 0:42:26.839 a weird it was a weird mix of the mom 0:42:27.120 --> 0:42:31.280 kept emphasizing that she was almost criminally incompetent at cooking 0:42:31.400 --> 0:42:33.239 and thus had to be taught by a robot how 0:42:33.280 --> 0:42:35.399 to make pasta. But like they're talking about like their 0:42:35.480 --> 0:42:38.320 kids and my husband, and it's like it's a weird 0:42:38.360 --> 0:42:41.399 performance art thing. But honestly, that way of presenting their 0:42:41.400 --> 0:42:45.560 products was much more enjoyable to watch than walking through 0:42:45.560 --> 0:42:48.239 the Samsung booth who didn't have any of that you 0:42:48.239 --> 0:42:51.799 were just walking through like it's despite being silly, it 0:42:51.880 --> 0:42:55.799 was still much much more enjoyable. Yeah, and so I 0:42:55.880 --> 0:42:58.799 have been attending c e s since two thousand ten, 0:42:58.920 --> 0:43:00.839 not every year, but all and I try to hit 0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:02.640 it every couple of years just to kind of keep 0:43:02.640 --> 0:43:06.400 abreast of what's not just like what's possible, because you 0:43:06.400 --> 0:43:09.120 always see some exciting new stuff that you wouldn't have 0:43:09.160 --> 0:43:11.680 guessed was a thing, but also to just kind of 0:43:11.760 --> 0:43:14.120 get an eye for how the tech industry is talking 0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:18.640 about itself to itself. Um. And the thing that struck 0:43:18.640 --> 0:43:22.680 me most was how completely out of the driver's seat 0:43:22.880 --> 0:43:27.120 the big tech companies were, um and not even really 0:43:27.200 --> 0:43:31.000 even not even trying. Google's big Box was not in 0:43:31.040 --> 0:43:33.520 the main convention center their main booth. They had it 0:43:33.840 --> 0:43:36.759 outside the convention center. And it does not seem to 0:43:36.760 --> 0:43:39.719 be a focus of much coverage, right people, people are 0:43:39.800 --> 0:43:42.600 not do not care. It's just more phones and it's 0:43:42.640 --> 0:43:45.560 like Razors. They're right, the company makes gaming laptops, and 0:43:45.600 --> 0:43:48.719 they make perfectly fine gaming laptops. But it's also just like, well, 0:43:48.760 --> 0:43:50.840 now I can see what the new sixteen inch Razor 0:43:50.880 --> 0:43:54.160 looks like. It looks like a Razor laptop. Um, you know, 0:43:54.200 --> 0:43:56.799 I can go to Lenovo and see what they had 0:43:56.800 --> 0:44:00.480 actually a couple of cool laptop Leniva. I was bummed 0:44:00.480 --> 0:44:04.279 because they took away the laptop clit. They did take 0:44:04.320 --> 0:44:06.440 the clitter iss off of the laptop, which is a shame. 0:44:06.480 --> 0:44:09.200 Although they have a semi clitterest button on the side 0:44:09.200 --> 0:44:14.359 of the phone. It's red like the old Anyway, whatever, um, 0:44:15.040 --> 0:44:18.160 look up Lenovo clitter iss or just type clitterus into 0:44:18.239 --> 0:44:21.160 red tube. Um don't, well, I don't know, whatever, it's 0:44:21.160 --> 0:44:25.120 your life. Uh So the Lenovo has like I mean, 0:44:25.120 --> 0:44:27.720 there's some like, oh, here's a laptop with two screens 0:44:27.760 --> 0:44:31.840 that doesn't completely suck. Um, you know, here's a laptop 0:44:31.920 --> 0:44:35.080 that is in a slightly better form factor, but it's 0:44:35.160 --> 0:44:40.760 there's kind of they've given up the idea that like, um, 0:44:40.880 --> 0:44:45.319 there's anything kind of but iterative, Like here's TVs that 0:44:45.360 --> 0:44:47.719 are slightly better than your current TV, but not in 0:44:47.760 --> 0:44:49.759 a way that you can notice. And that's most of 0:44:49.800 --> 0:44:52.320 like the products there, which is like, well, on paper, 0:44:52.360 --> 0:44:54.279 this is slightly better than the thing I have, but 0:44:54.360 --> 0:44:56.520 I don't think I would actually notice a difference in 0:44:57.160 --> 0:44:59.200 And when you're seeing that from the companies that are 0:44:59.239 --> 0:45:01.840 put spinning thirty million twenty, you have a many fucking 0:45:01.840 --> 0:45:04.839 millions of dollars to be at C E S and 0:45:04.880 --> 0:45:07.359 have god knows how many billions that they put into 0:45:07.440 --> 0:45:09.320 R and D when that's what they're bringing to the table. 0:45:09.880 --> 0:45:13.120 And there's just like three nerds in a tiny booth 0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:15.360 in a corner of a room that have a device 0:45:15.480 --> 0:45:17.960 that like is capable of reading all of the speech 0:45:17.960 --> 0:45:21.319 around you and translating and like captioning it live. Or 0:45:21.880 --> 0:45:25.360 there's those I mean that little not a massive company, 0:45:25.360 --> 0:45:28.040 although not you know, clearly a decent amount of backing 0:45:28.200 --> 0:45:30.439 doing that kind of ship with happticks like that's all 0:45:30.480 --> 0:45:34.520 of the that's the I think that the main takeaway 0:45:34.560 --> 0:45:38.200 to me is like there's big tech um seems to 0:45:38.239 --> 0:45:41.719 have entirely given up driving the conversation about what the 0:45:41.719 --> 0:45:44.080 future is going to look like. Even I don't take 0:45:44.120 --> 0:45:47.160 as a bad thing. Actually, even we went to the 0:45:47.239 --> 0:45:49.960 John Dear booth and they had this, They had this 0:45:50.120 --> 0:45:55.400 u AI assisted way to scan your crops and locate 0:45:55.719 --> 0:46:00.200 where weeds are, and another kind of Amazon like one 0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:06.120 of those gigantic um uh irrigation to drive it around. 0:46:06.160 --> 0:46:08.120 It's like a hundred yards long, and it waters and 0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:11.840 sprays pesticide. But it's it's the AI power thing that 0:46:11.880 --> 0:46:15.040 recognizes things that are not crops and tries to remove them. 0:46:15.800 --> 0:46:18.400 The case and point being like trying to spray pesticides 0:46:18.640 --> 0:46:20.279 just on the weeds and not on the rest of 0:46:20.320 --> 0:46:22.319 the crops. And it can it can go. It can 0:46:22.360 --> 0:46:25.160 do this while operating at twelve hours an hour. This 0:46:25.719 --> 0:46:29.200 this the person we talked to, They just started working 0:46:29.200 --> 0:46:31.400 for John Deer because this technology was developed at a 0:46:31.440 --> 0:46:34.319 different company that John Deer just bought. Like John Deere 0:46:34.440 --> 0:46:38.239 didn't make this, other companies did, and then they just 0:46:38.320 --> 0:46:40.480 bought it. I think that's just another interesting these case 0:46:40.520 --> 0:46:42.919 of like that was just another small, random company who 0:46:42.960 --> 0:46:46.680 was doing you know, innovative farming technology that then you know, 0:46:46.880 --> 0:46:48.960 another big company with money just decided to buy and 0:46:49.000 --> 0:46:51.799 be like, hey, this is our thing now, And I 0:46:51.840 --> 0:46:54.880 think I want to We'll do another part where we 0:46:54.920 --> 0:46:57.520 talk about the dark side. We'll talk about Palinteer, who 0:46:57.560 --> 0:46:59.440 was there and who we got to chat with. We'll 0:46:59.440 --> 0:47:02.319 talk about Valence, We'll talk more about John Deer, because 0:47:02.360 --> 0:47:05.799 there's some some bleak ship in the John Deer stuff too. Um. 0:47:05.840 --> 0:47:07.560 But I think this is the stuff that I found 0:47:07.600 --> 0:47:10.120 broadly optimistic, even the ship that didn't work, because what 0:47:10.200 --> 0:47:13.399 didn't work is like big tech, and I kind of 0:47:13.440 --> 0:47:17.120 like the fact that big tech it seems stumbling and 0:47:17.239 --> 0:47:20.160 crypto those particulars that didn't work. What I like is 0:47:20.160 --> 0:47:23.239 the fact I like to see big tech stumbling out 0:47:23.280 --> 0:47:26.880 the gate and a bunch of weirdos um putting some 0:47:26.960 --> 0:47:29.439 cool shit out there, and that actually makes me more 0:47:29.440 --> 0:47:34.920 hopeful of like a future where technology makes things more accessible. 0:47:35.400 --> 0:47:38.520 And uh, I get to wear motorized Exo skeletons. Oh, 0:47:38.600 --> 0:47:41.440 let's end on the Exo skeleton. So we got to 0:47:41.480 --> 0:47:44.960 finally try the motorized Exo skeleton, which is supposed to 0:47:44.960 --> 0:47:49.080 basically increase your lifting capacity by sixty or seventy pounds. Um. 0:47:49.120 --> 0:47:50.800 It's like a backpack you were in your back with 0:47:50.840 --> 0:47:54.600 a chest piece and hooks around your hips and stuff. Uh, 0:47:54.760 --> 0:47:56.960 and it works when you're like carrying loads and moving 0:47:56.960 --> 0:47:59.600 and squatting. You don't have to move the way you 0:47:59.680 --> 0:48:02.160 normal due to protect your lower back, which is kind 0:48:02.160 --> 0:48:04.200 of harder on your knees. If you've ever liked done 0:48:04.320 --> 0:48:08.439 cattle bell spots or dead lifts, um, when you when 0:48:08.440 --> 0:48:10.279 you first put it on and they had you bend 0:48:10.320 --> 0:48:12.480 over and then stand back up. The first thing we 0:48:12.520 --> 0:48:14.239 did that, it was you kind of felt like you're 0:48:14.239 --> 0:48:17.319 getting launched in there. Yeah yeah, because it's pushing up 0:48:17.320 --> 0:48:19.600 with you, it's assisting you. Yeah, but you can move 0:48:19.960 --> 0:48:22.320 like springs in your step as you're running. It worked 0:48:22.440 --> 0:48:24.920 really well. It was very cool. I want to and 0:48:24.960 --> 0:48:26.960 I was kind of shocked at how this is from 0:48:27.000 --> 0:48:32.000 a German biotics German German biotics um, which is the 0:48:32.080 --> 0:48:35.440 name of the company, and it was a really awesome 0:48:35.840 --> 0:48:38.239 first off shout out the folks were fans, so that 0:48:38.320 --> 0:48:43.839 was nice um, but it was really cool product for like, 0:48:43.880 --> 0:48:47.920 the price point was surprisingly like we're not talking Toyota 0:48:47.960 --> 0:48:51.160 factories can afford them. We're talking like if you are 0:48:51.280 --> 0:48:53.560 if you work in like a mid like a small 0:48:53.640 --> 0:48:56.520 automotive company or whatever, like you could afford one of 0:48:56.560 --> 0:48:59.920 these suits. They're not they're sub tin k so they're 0:49:00.040 --> 0:49:03.040 not cheap, but they're not like the kind of thing 0:49:03.120 --> 0:49:06.120 that only a multi billion dollar corporation could have access 0:49:06.239 --> 0:49:08.560 and it will actually improve the lives of workers. You 0:49:08.640 --> 0:49:10.680 can rent them for two fifty bucks a month, which 0:49:10.680 --> 0:49:13.640 is again very because it would allow you to work 0:49:13.719 --> 0:49:16.080 lifting and hauling ship all day or do stuff like 0:49:16.080 --> 0:49:18.279 on a farm like bail hay and huck hey up 0:49:18.719 --> 0:49:23.040 without straining your knees and back, which you know, we 0:49:23.080 --> 0:49:27.600 talk a lot about like the kind of devices oftentimes, 0:49:27.640 --> 0:49:30.399 the kind of devices that make work more that are 0:49:30.440 --> 0:49:33.480 like marketed to companies in this may make work more efficient, 0:49:33.520 --> 0:49:35.239 but they don't try to they try to trying to 0:49:35.239 --> 0:49:38.120 increase productivity, Yeah, by just doing more numbers, but not 0:49:38.160 --> 0:49:40.960 actually improving the experience for the worker. Like. The human 0:49:41.080 --> 0:49:43.080 side of this is that, well, maybe a bunch of 0:49:43.080 --> 0:49:46.200 people who ruin their backs and knees working in factories 0:49:46.239 --> 0:49:50.600 every day won't and that would be nice to uh 0:49:50.640 --> 0:49:53.080 and and it seems like it works really well. Um. 0:49:53.160 --> 0:49:55.640 So if you are currently working a job or run 0:49:55.640 --> 0:49:58.280 a company and your employees are destroying their backs and knees, 0:49:58.840 --> 0:50:03.440 maybe reach out to the German biotics guys. Um. Also, 0:50:03.560 --> 0:50:06.680 it does seem like I could rent or purchase one 0:50:06.880 --> 0:50:10.399 and then combine my plate carrier with the chest rig 0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:13.960 purchased extra thigh and shoulder armor and have what is 0:50:14.000 --> 0:50:17.200 effectively powered armor without straining my body. I can't say 0:50:17.200 --> 0:50:22.120 any reason why that wouldn't work Garrison. Um, So come 0:50:22.120 --> 0:50:26.160 back next week where I will have recreated space marine 0:50:26.160 --> 0:50:30.640 power armor. Um, and soon after that gone mad with 0:50:30.680 --> 0:50:35.280 power and take over Circus Circus finally finally take over Garrison. 0:50:35.560 --> 0:50:38.600 Why don't we end this by so Circus Circus most 0:50:38.640 --> 0:50:41.160 beautiful place in the Las Vegas Strip if you've never been, 0:50:41.440 --> 0:50:44.160 if you've ever read the book Feared Loathing, in Las Vegas. 0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:48.480 You're watched the movie it's where Hunter Thompson starts hallucinating. Um. Now, 0:50:48.680 --> 0:50:50.760 the thing about Circus Circus is that it's a clown 0:50:50.840 --> 0:50:55.240 them to casino and it's supposed to be a circus 0:50:55.280 --> 0:50:58.040 themed casino. There's a lot of clouds, but there is 0:50:58.040 --> 0:51:00.719 a lot of cleans in their branding and that it was. 0:51:01.520 --> 0:51:03.920 It's like one of the oldest casinos on the strip, 0:51:04.080 --> 0:51:06.640 so everything is faded. They have not repainted it in 0:51:06.680 --> 0:51:09.319 a very long time. It is the outside as a 0:51:09.360 --> 0:51:12.160 shade of like move that you only get when the 0:51:12.200 --> 0:51:17.040 sun has deeply damaged your building. You cannot purposely produce 0:51:17.080 --> 0:51:20.920 set color. No man cannot create it, even with all 0:51:20.960 --> 0:51:25.480 of our talents. Um. And it's it's just I perfectly 0:51:25.520 --> 0:51:27.440 put Garrison up there because it's where I used to 0:51:27.440 --> 0:51:29.040 stay on the strip and it's one of the worst 0:51:29.040 --> 0:51:31.680 places in the world. I love it very much. UM. 0:51:31.880 --> 0:51:34.680 Tell the people how you found Circus Circus gear. I mean, 0:51:34.920 --> 0:51:38.120 initially I wanted I wanted more theming on the inside. 0:51:38.640 --> 0:51:40.640 I think it's it's a bummer that clowns have gotten 0:51:40.840 --> 0:51:42.880 such a bad rap in the past twenty years that 0:51:42.960 --> 0:51:44.760 I feel like they've kind of taken a back pedal 0:51:44.800 --> 0:51:48.560 off the clown theming. Yeah, it's cowardice because with without 0:51:48.560 --> 0:51:51.080 the clown, without the clown theming, it's just kind of 0:51:51.160 --> 0:51:55.399 dingy and depressing, where instead could be surreal and uncomfortable. 0:51:55.719 --> 0:51:58.160 And I would prefer it to be surreal and uncomfortable. 0:51:58.360 --> 0:52:01.520 That just did you depressing? See, this is why I 0:52:02.200 --> 0:52:04.560 wanted to support you in your dream of sitting in 0:52:04.640 --> 0:52:09.120 dark corners of Circus Surcus wearing your clown costume. I 0:52:09.160 --> 0:52:11.680 brought a clown costume you could give. I mean, you 0:52:11.760 --> 0:52:14.120 might get stabbed. I still I still have one more night. 0:52:14.280 --> 0:52:17.600 That's right. Yesterday, yesterday, after I said to my hotel, 0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:20.319 there was a Las Vegas police officer what time of 0:52:20.400 --> 0:52:24.799 day am? A Las Vegas Plue officer was walking the 0:52:24.840 --> 0:52:27.400 hallway in the very top floor where I'm staying. And 0:52:27.440 --> 0:52:30.000 then then I go downstairs and there's a whole team 0:52:30.080 --> 0:52:35.440 of police sweeping the ground at seven am. Probably just 0:52:35.560 --> 0:52:40.160 a murder um. So this has been it could happen here. 0:52:40.400 --> 0:52:43.640 Reporting from C E. S. We'll be back probably tomorrow 0:52:43.719 --> 0:52:47.200 to talk about the dark, horrifying things that we saw 0:52:47.239 --> 0:52:49.520 that made us deeply uncomfortable. And then we'll probably have 0:52:49.640 --> 0:52:52.799 like in an audio documentary on the way as well, 0:52:52.880 --> 0:52:56.480 using audio that we recorded at CES so that will 0:52:56.520 --> 0:52:58.640 be integrated at some point in the future. Will continue 0:52:58.719 --> 0:53:02.440 to inform you of the future that is mercilessly rushing 0:53:02.520 --> 0:53:05.520 towards you and cannot be stopped and will inevitably crush 0:53:05.560 --> 0:53:07.759 you and everything and everyone you love. But in this 0:53:07.800 --> 0:53:27.600 episode in a good way, so true, So be happy. Ah, 0:53:28.080 --> 0:53:36.040 welcome back to it could happen me All that's horrible. 0:53:36.520 --> 0:53:41.480 You didn't like that, Garrison, Well, they can all be winners. Uh. 0:53:41.520 --> 0:53:45.319 This is part I Guess three of our coverage of 0:53:45.360 --> 0:53:49.680 the Consumer Electronics Show and what the tech industry has 0:53:49.760 --> 0:53:54.320 in store for all of us in the future. UM. 0:53:54.400 --> 0:53:57.080 Last episode we talked about the stuff we saw at 0:53:57.120 --> 0:54:00.960 c e S that was both cool and optimistic and 0:54:01.000 --> 0:54:04.440 spoke to some some potentially positive trends in tech, and 0:54:04.480 --> 0:54:06.400 today we're going to get back to what we do best, 0:54:06.800 --> 0:54:10.319 which is making you feel bad. But first I want 0:54:10.360 --> 0:54:13.200 to open this up a little bit with Garrison. You're 0:54:13.200 --> 0:54:16.680 a Canadian. You're you're you're You're a very young Canadian 0:54:16.880 --> 0:54:19.759 twenty years old, grew up in a cult and now 0:54:19.840 --> 0:54:22.480 you have just seen Las Vegas, Nevada for the first time. 0:54:22.960 --> 0:54:27.600 Did it change your life? Um, I mean I guess so, 0:54:27.920 --> 0:54:30.279 I guess. I guess it did change my life in 0:54:31.760 --> 0:54:35.160 in my perception of what Las Vegas is and my 0:54:35.239 --> 0:54:40.920 desire to never return of But yeah, I mean we 0:54:40.920 --> 0:54:43.719 we've been able to spend probably around half our time 0:54:43.719 --> 0:54:47.319 at CES, the other half just uh so soaking in 0:54:47.440 --> 0:54:51.919 the impeccable vibes of Las Vegas, Nevada. Yeah, I've been. 0:54:51.960 --> 0:54:56.360 I've been tour guiding you around, uh soberly and safely. 0:54:56.600 --> 0:55:01.080 We went to the Venetian and the Palaza. We took 0:55:01.120 --> 0:55:04.920 a very expensive gondola, right, that was an expensive gondola. Right, 0:55:05.160 --> 0:55:08.200 got to see the beautiful blue skies of Venice and 0:55:08.360 --> 0:55:12.200 all their four corners. Your reaction to seeing inside the 0:55:12.239 --> 0:55:15.000 Vinea if you've never been the Venetian, the interior of it, 0:55:15.000 --> 0:55:17.200 it's this massive casino, as they all are. They're all 0:55:17.200 --> 0:55:22.279 like small towns inside buildings massive, and the Venetian is 0:55:22.320 --> 0:55:24.759 like a replica of the city of Venice with a 0:55:24.760 --> 0:55:29.680 fake sky. And that is one giant mall. I believe 0:55:29.719 --> 0:55:33.080 it's the second largest hotel in the world. Yeah, it is. 0:55:33.920 --> 0:55:39.399 Unbelievably large, uh, incredibly expensive, and the fidelity of like 0:55:39.520 --> 0:55:42.640 the fakeness of all of these things that are based 0:55:42.680 --> 0:55:45.440 on real stuff is is quite high to it's it's 0:55:45.440 --> 0:55:51.440 a whole thing. Yeah, it's it's really interesting because some 0:55:51.520 --> 0:55:53.120 of the most impactful stuff is all of like the 0:55:53.160 --> 0:55:56.359 fake storefronts inside because in many ways they're kind of 0:55:56.360 --> 0:56:00.839 just all glorified malls, um and glorified our aids, all 0:56:01.239 --> 0:56:06.000 slot machines. And it's funny because, like, you know, they 0:56:06.080 --> 0:56:08.640 make all of these facades on the inside, they have 0:56:09.160 --> 0:56:12.360 they have the ceiling painted to look like the sky, 0:56:12.400 --> 0:56:15.200 but it's it's it's just it's so dark in there, 0:56:15.280 --> 0:56:18.359 like it's so like it's you see blue skies above you, 0:56:18.680 --> 0:56:21.640 but there's like no light anywhere, no light anywhere. There's 0:56:21.640 --> 0:56:24.440 no clocks in the rooms. No, you never know what 0:56:24.520 --> 0:56:27.000 time it is. You never see the outdoors. You're all 0:56:27.040 --> 0:56:29.840 isolated in these little corridors leading from one shop to 0:56:29.840 --> 0:56:33.240 another with slot machines all along the way. You're flying 0:56:33.280 --> 0:56:36.080 back soon, are you looking forward to not being in 0:56:36.239 --> 0:56:40.160 a maze of lights designed to bewilder and and slowly 0:56:40.239 --> 0:56:42.920 damage you enough that you sit down at a craps table, 0:56:43.440 --> 0:56:45.400 very excited to see a real tree it's not a 0:56:45.400 --> 0:56:50.279 palm tree. Very excited to like touch grass because there's 0:56:50.280 --> 0:56:53.359 no grass in Las Vegas. No, it's actually I think 0:56:53.360 --> 0:56:55.920 illegal in a lot of parts of the city to 0:56:56.000 --> 0:56:58.360 have like a grass lawn, which is so one of 0:56:58.360 --> 0:57:01.080 the things. So obviously Vegas is in an objective sense, 0:57:01.120 --> 0:57:04.359 incredibly wasteful. A huge amount of resources get poured into 0:57:04.719 --> 0:57:07.920 what is effectively just for gaming. But um, the other thing, 0:57:08.280 --> 0:57:10.080 like another thing that you have to hold in your 0:57:10.080 --> 0:57:11.640 mind when you recognize that, is that of all of 0:57:11.680 --> 0:57:15.040 the states in the Southwest utilizing the very limited water 0:57:15.080 --> 0:57:17.400 resources there. If I'm not mistaken, because it was just 0:57:17.440 --> 0:57:20.160 reading an article about this, Nevada is the one state 0:57:20.200 --> 0:57:23.080 that has reduced its water usage while it's grown by 0:57:23.120 --> 0:57:26.720 like three quarters of a million people. Um, so it 0:57:26.800 --> 0:57:31.680 contains multitudes. And also Nevada, like Vegas, is where the 0:57:32.560 --> 0:57:34.400 I'm spacing on the name right now. But basically you 0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:37.760 have all of these different states in the Southwest that 0:57:37.840 --> 0:57:39.760 are all kind of coming together to try to figure 0:57:39.760 --> 0:57:43.200 out how to deal with the fact that uh lake 0:57:43.280 --> 0:57:46.280 meat water levels are getting lower in the Colorado River 0:57:46.480 --> 0:57:49.160 is disappearing in some areas, and it is the only 0:57:49.160 --> 0:57:51.160 thing that makes life out here possible on the scale 0:57:51.160 --> 0:57:54.680 that it currently exists on um And a couple of 0:57:54.720 --> 0:57:57.920 months before c e S they had their big meeting 0:57:58.120 --> 0:58:01.080 in Las Vegas in order to talk about how to 0:58:01.120 --> 0:58:04.240 try and deal with the calamitous water situation. So it 0:58:04.600 --> 0:58:08.000 is very much this city that is like filled with 0:58:08.200 --> 0:58:12.479 simulacra of the past um which it uses to try 0:58:12.480 --> 0:58:14.520 to hack your brain to get you to stay up 0:58:14.560 --> 0:58:16.520 for four days in a row, gambling and spending tens 0:58:16.520 --> 0:58:19.800 of thousands of dollars. And it also because it's the 0:58:19.840 --> 0:58:22.320 best place to hold a convention, and in a very 0:58:22.320 --> 0:58:25.240 technical sense, like it is the most prepared for a 0:58:25.360 --> 0:58:28.920 large convention. They they this city can handle a hundred 0:58:28.920 --> 0:58:32.160 and fifty two hundred thousand people coming in overnight and 0:58:32.160 --> 0:58:35.480 needing places to stay and needing infrastructure in order. So 0:58:35.520 --> 0:58:37.760 it's also where a lot of things about the future 0:58:37.760 --> 0:58:42.760 get decided, which is when you spend enough time walking. 0:58:42.920 --> 0:58:46.800 It's kind of horrified the fact that important decisions get 0:58:46.880 --> 0:58:49.840 made in this in this realm of in this place 0:58:49.880 --> 0:58:52.680 that's designed to be mind altering. Yeah, it is, it is. 0:58:52.720 --> 0:58:54.800 It is crafted. We're not like joking about this. There 0:58:54.840 --> 0:58:57.760 are no clocks in the hotel rooms, like the casinos 0:58:57.800 --> 0:59:01.840 are crafted to damage your perception of time. Um so 0:59:01.920 --> 0:59:04.040 I don't know that somebody should maybe look into that. 0:59:04.360 --> 0:59:06.760 It's I do like when you're talking about like meat. 0:59:06.840 --> 0:59:09.000 Just a great example of the overall vibes of Las 0:59:09.080 --> 0:59:12.120 Vegas is as as lake meat is drying up, we 0:59:12.200 --> 0:59:16.240 keep finding bodies inside the lake like bodies have been 0:59:16.280 --> 0:59:19.440 there a long time, bodies of people who had alternate 0:59:19.520 --> 0:59:21.880 ideas about how Vegas should look. I mean a lot 0:59:21.920 --> 0:59:25.360 of them were probably yeah, well, walk walk to the Venetian, 0:59:25.360 --> 0:59:28.840 walked through Caesar's Palace. Uh, they had they had some 0:59:28.960 --> 0:59:34.680 nice vapor wave lieds displays outside. Briefly went into the 0:59:34.720 --> 0:59:37.800 Paris one, which was honestly, I think they Paris handled 0:59:37.800 --> 0:59:41.919 the handled the fake sky the worst, because not only 0:59:42.000 --> 0:59:47.080 was this the sky painted ceiling so low, the the 0:59:47.120 --> 0:59:49.640 bottom part of the Eiffel Tower just stops where the 0:59:49.640 --> 0:59:52.080 ceiling stops. That they didn't even try. They don't even 0:59:52.120 --> 0:59:54.360 try to continue the illusion. It's just just as a 0:59:54.360 --> 0:59:57.640 is a hard stop. Um. We wrote a roller coaster. 0:59:58.040 --> 0:59:59.640 We we went to New York. We we went to 1:00:00.040 --> 1:00:02.920 the Little blurry for me because you were so drunk. 1:00:04.240 --> 1:00:09.160 But I just bought. I dumped the the attempt at 1:00:09.200 --> 1:00:11.560 like buying drinks from places and just got a handle 1:00:11.560 --> 1:00:15.920 of Woodford Reserve, which allegedly you can mix into one 1:00:15.920 --> 1:00:18.920 of the th HC Pina coladas that they have, and 1:00:19.000 --> 1:00:23.560 allegedly it's pretty good time. We we went to Rainforest Cafe. 1:00:23.680 --> 1:00:27.200 I unfortunately bought. You got sicker than I did eating 1:00:27.520 --> 1:00:31.160 Rainforest Cafe. The I I bought, I bought this volcano 1:00:31.280 --> 1:00:35.640 cake and it was quite regrettable. Um. And then we 1:00:35.680 --> 1:00:38.520 walked over to the New York themed casino inside Las Vegas. 1:00:38.560 --> 1:00:40.680 So if you want a city themed casino inside the 1:00:40.680 --> 1:00:43.040 city that you're in, you can go there. Just pretty 1:00:43.040 --> 1:00:47.720 different city creating microcostums within microcostums. You're just like the nesting, 1:00:48.040 --> 1:00:51.000 nesting all the way down. And I, in an effort 1:00:51.000 --> 1:00:54.360 to make both me and Robert vomit, we went on 1:00:54.360 --> 1:00:59.680 a roller coaster we've barely survived. That did feel like 1:00:59.720 --> 1:01:03.720 a very dangerous roller that was we were so close 1:01:03.760 --> 1:01:07.000 to vomiting everywhere. Just yeah, it was a good time. 1:01:07.120 --> 1:01:10.160 That was pretty fun. I felt great so that I 1:01:10.200 --> 1:01:13.640 just felt people would enjoy your your your first Vegas experience, 1:01:13.680 --> 1:01:15.920 and of course you stayed at Circus Circus, which we 1:01:16.000 --> 1:01:19.160 just walked through earlier today, one last time, one final, 1:01:19.320 --> 1:01:21.600 one final debt to see a family of four with 1:01:21.720 --> 1:01:29.360 thirty eight thousand dollars. I mentioned losing that Circus Circus, unbelieve, 1:01:29.720 --> 1:01:32.760 the worst casino in the world. I think, in order 1:01:32.760 --> 1:01:36.080 to segue into our next topic. It's pretty I think 1:01:36.160 --> 1:01:38.880 Las Vegas is probably one of the most heavily surveilled 1:01:38.920 --> 1:01:41.320 cities in the United States. It would be hard to 1:01:41.360 --> 1:01:43.600 find one with more, especially when you're on the Strip. 1:01:43.640 --> 1:01:45.600 Obviously there's a lot of lots of I have family 1:01:45.640 --> 1:01:48.120 who live here and they can go years without visiting 1:01:48.120 --> 1:01:52.200 the fucking strip because it's terrible. Um. But another another 1:01:52.320 --> 1:01:56.640 and so kind of in a similar sense. At CES, 1:01:56.840 --> 1:01:59.920 there was a lot of stuff about surveillance, a lot 1:02:00.000 --> 1:02:04.360 of stuff about, uh, you know, collect different new innovative 1:02:04.360 --> 1:02:06.760 ways to collect data on you and your and your 1:02:06.800 --> 1:02:10.760 appliances and what's in your home. Um, do we want 1:02:10.800 --> 1:02:15.080 to stalk start by talking about the the almdipure of 1:02:15.080 --> 1:02:19.680 of surveillance tech. Yeah. Um, there was actually just an 1:02:19.720 --> 1:02:22.800 article in the Washington Post about this about how unsafe 1:02:23.200 --> 1:02:25.000 quite a bit of it is. And one of the 1:02:25.040 --> 1:02:27.280 things that you may have caught in some of your news, 1:02:27.320 --> 1:02:29.400 because this was probably one of the more viral stories, 1:02:29.480 --> 1:02:31.960 is that there was a lot of piss based technology, 1:02:32.560 --> 1:02:35.880 a lot of p analyzation. Vivu had a thing there 1:02:35.960 --> 1:02:40.160 was there was at least three different p test kits 1:02:40.200 --> 1:02:42.080 that were on the show floor. I think some of 1:02:42.080 --> 1:02:45.560 them won't some some of the CS Innovation Awards where 1:02:45.600 --> 1:02:48.160 basically you can analyze what's in your urine. Yeah, and 1:02:48.200 --> 1:02:50.960 these are always framed as like it can let you 1:02:51.120 --> 1:02:53.040 give you confirmation if you have a U t I, 1:02:53.200 --> 1:02:55.320 it can help people who have all these different illnesses, 1:02:55.320 --> 1:02:58.600 it can help diabetics UM. And I'm sure there's a 1:02:58.640 --> 1:03:01.520 degree to which that's true. But I asked the Vivu 1:03:01.640 --> 1:03:04.440 lady and I didn't speak with the There was another 1:03:04.520 --> 1:03:08.440 called um you scan by with things and and you 1:03:08.440 --> 1:03:14.040 you scans urine sensor analyzes hormone levels in urine. That's interesting, Yeah, 1:03:14.120 --> 1:03:17.480 which is is why it won some awards and also 1:03:17.560 --> 1:03:21.919 why a bunch of folks, including Consumer Reports UM put 1:03:21.920 --> 1:03:24.200 out like a warning about it, saying like we shouldn't 1:03:24.200 --> 1:03:27.160 be celebrating this. This is an incredibly dangerous product because 1:03:27.160 --> 1:03:29.800 it all is going to your phone, the data is 1:03:29.840 --> 1:03:32.720 being collected digitally, and if, for example, you are in 1:03:32.760 --> 1:03:37.800 a state that heavily restricts women's access to reproductive healthcare, uh, 1:03:37.800 --> 1:03:41.280 there is literally nothing stopping the law enforcement or the 1:03:41.280 --> 1:03:44.960 government of those states from demanding all of that data 1:03:45.040 --> 1:03:48.240 be handed over, potentially even in real time. There's absolutely 1:03:48.240 --> 1:03:50.360 nothing stopping that. And the company has already said they'll 1:03:50.360 --> 1:03:54.280 comply with law enforcement with government requests, um. And there's 1:03:54.320 --> 1:03:56.760 they don't have any kind of plan for the fact 1:03:56.800 --> 1:04:01.520 that they are creating a way to surveile people's bodies 1:04:01.920 --> 1:04:04.680 um for the government. Um. And when I talked to 1:04:04.720 --> 1:04:07.680 the one of the representatives of Vivu, which is another 1:04:07.680 --> 1:04:09.880 one of these urine companies that I don't believe detect 1:04:09.920 --> 1:04:13.280 your hormone levels, but but does is generating a lot 1:04:13.320 --> 1:04:16.120 of data about your body, a lot of biometric data. 1:04:16.160 --> 1:04:18.960 And the most she would give me is that the 1:04:19.040 --> 1:04:23.880 data is encrypted, which great, that that's a fancy word 1:04:23.920 --> 1:04:27.280 for saying, yeah, we have it. We are. We are 1:04:27.320 --> 1:04:31.280 sitting here right after one of the most damaging data 1:04:32.240 --> 1:04:35.160 hacks of all time, which has h it was was 1:04:35.480 --> 1:04:39.560 last pass it was one of the massive password collecting 1:04:39.560 --> 1:04:42.400 apps where you basically like centralize all your passwords behind 1:04:42.440 --> 1:04:45.560 one and remember and like it. A lot of people 1:04:45.720 --> 1:04:49.640 are exposed as a result of that, And um, I 1:04:50.400 --> 1:04:55.080 just think that, like the this show, such a massive 1:04:55.120 --> 1:04:58.640 part of it was we have we are debuting devices 1:04:58.680 --> 1:05:00.760 that will allow you to monitor front parts of your 1:05:00.760 --> 1:05:03.360 body at all times and get real time biometric data 1:05:03.400 --> 1:05:05.680 your body in your house and centralizing all this data 1:05:05.720 --> 1:05:08.160 about you were talking about ring in one place, because 1:05:08.440 --> 1:05:10.600 that's the same thing with like smart homes and smart 1:05:10.600 --> 1:05:13.480 appliances were very popular. Smart cars were a very big thing. 1:05:14.200 --> 1:05:17.280 Um We're talking about like smart cities were another big 1:05:17.360 --> 1:05:19.240 thing for just other ways to centralize all of the 1:05:19.360 --> 1:05:22.440 data about what you own, where it is, um and 1:05:22.520 --> 1:05:25.240 how to effectively provide advertising to get you to buy more. 1:05:25.600 --> 1:05:28.280 There's an attempt being made by Republicans in Oklahoma right 1:05:28.320 --> 1:05:32.800 now to make it criminal two do gender transition if 1:05:32.840 --> 1:05:36.040 you are under twenty six years of age. There's no 1:05:36.240 --> 1:05:38.920 reason why a product like this couldn't be used to 1:05:39.000 --> 1:05:42.120 determine whether or not somebody is illegally taking hormones in 1:05:42.160 --> 1:05:45.040 a state where they are attempting to restrict trans people 1:05:45.120 --> 1:05:48.000 like it's this is all We're not just being like 1:05:49.600 --> 1:05:53.439 fuddy duddies. These are all very serious implications and there's 1:05:53.520 --> 1:05:56.120 zero thought, zero evidence of thought being given to it 1:05:56.160 --> 1:05:57.800 with any of the biometric companies. Now, one of the 1:05:57.840 --> 1:06:01.120 reasons we talked about that those smart glass um that 1:06:01.200 --> 1:06:05.200 are for people who are hearing impaired that caption conversations 1:06:05.280 --> 1:06:07.400 live around them. One of the reasons I was impressed 1:06:07.440 --> 1:06:10.040 by that is that it's all a closed loop. None 1:06:10.040 --> 1:06:14.120 of it goes to your smartphone, none of it's broadcast wirely, wirelessly. Um. 1:06:14.200 --> 1:06:15.720 It is all on device and none of it is 1:06:15.760 --> 1:06:18.360 stored anywhere. And when they said that, that was part 1:06:18.400 --> 1:06:22.760 of what convinced me these people understand the responsibility they 1:06:22.840 --> 1:06:26.360 have delivering a healthcare product. We should move on to 1:06:26.400 --> 1:06:29.160 the other part of the Panopticon that we saw and 1:06:29.240 --> 1:06:33.000 talk about Ring. Yeah, the ring booth was one of 1:06:33.040 --> 1:06:37.320 the more terrifyingly dystopian bits. And it's you know, and 1:06:37.400 --> 1:06:39.760 it's describe it for our listeners, well, I mean it's 1:06:41.120 --> 1:06:44.640 they basically made like a white Pickett house. Um. And 1:06:44.760 --> 1:06:47.640 you know, again cs these are massive, massive buildings, and 1:06:47.760 --> 1:06:49.880 so they do people can construct a full house in 1:06:49.960 --> 1:06:52.400 there and you did, so like you know, there's fake 1:06:52.600 --> 1:06:55.640 fake green grass, a nice little fence, this perfect little 1:06:55.680 --> 1:06:58.600 ideal at home. And the massive, massive sign above was 1:06:58.720 --> 1:07:03.320 like you know, ring keeping, like keeping keeping your neighborhood. 1:07:03.400 --> 1:07:05.520 Say if you know like all of all of all 1:07:05.600 --> 1:07:09.240 of that that type of messaging. UM. The in the 1:07:09.320 --> 1:07:12.000 model home they had there was like a dozen cameras 1:07:12.200 --> 1:07:15.040 on you know, every all all around the sides, and 1:07:16.520 --> 1:07:20.280 multiple cameras on the doors. There's a doorbell camera, peephole camera, 1:07:20.640 --> 1:07:23.960 camera on the fence, and one door with three cameras 1:07:24.000 --> 1:07:27.440 on the door itself. And I mean ring zoned by Amazon, 1:07:27.640 --> 1:07:32.560 there was you know, Alexa Alexa assisted ring cameras um 1:07:32.640 --> 1:07:35.280 all of the day that gets gets used by law enforcement. 1:07:35.320 --> 1:07:38.480 A ring partners like directly with law enforcement to make 1:07:38.600 --> 1:07:43.000 data like immediately available and make feeds immediately available. And 1:07:43.880 --> 1:07:45.600 the probably the still least thing we saw at the 1:07:45.680 --> 1:07:49.880 ring booth was this home security tiny little drone ye 1:07:50.440 --> 1:07:53.960 so basically they've built and it's weird because the so 1:07:54.120 --> 1:07:57.880 the box it comes in looks like a fucking um 1:07:58.480 --> 1:08:01.400 de humidifier that I used to have or humidifier that 1:08:01.440 --> 1:08:04.200 I used to have in my house it's almost identical. Um, 1:08:04.720 --> 1:08:07.640 but it's like this little plastic box and a drone 1:08:07.760 --> 1:08:10.440 can take off and fly out of it. Uh. And 1:08:11.080 --> 1:08:13.400 the drone trains itself on your house, so it knows 1:08:13.440 --> 1:08:17.120 how to get around and if somebody it thinks somebody's 1:08:17.160 --> 1:08:22.479 breaking in, a person who is effectively like works for Ring, 1:08:23.000 --> 1:08:26.879 like an actual human beings sitting in a call center somewhere, 1:08:27.520 --> 1:08:30.840 takes control of the drone and can confront someone in 1:08:30.920 --> 1:08:35.280 your house. Which I guess there's a potential security benefit there, 1:08:35.360 --> 1:08:39.120 But also, you are signing up to allow Amazon to 1:08:39.320 --> 1:08:43.599 have a random person travel around your home at any 1:08:43.720 --> 1:08:46.960 hour of the night in a in a thing they control, 1:08:47.040 --> 1:08:50.479 in a little flying machine that they control, and that 1:08:51.160 --> 1:08:54.519 I cannot put myself in. That I get, obviously, I 1:08:54.600 --> 1:08:56.920 get wanting to have cameras. I don't think it's unreasonable 1:08:57.000 --> 1:08:59.320 to have security cameras on your home. I even understand 1:08:59.360 --> 1:09:01.519 how some people who are not as privacy conscious as 1:09:01.560 --> 1:09:02.840 I am could be like, yeah, I don't care if 1:09:02.880 --> 1:09:05.320 it's connected to the internet. Um, even though that's not 1:09:05.400 --> 1:09:07.360 a thing I like, I can't put myself in the 1:09:07.400 --> 1:09:10.360 head of somebody who would want that thing in their house. Yeah, 1:09:10.400 --> 1:09:13.439 It's bizarre because obviously there's niche. Like again, they're like 1:09:13.560 --> 1:09:16.000 health related. Maybe if you've got like an illness or something, 1:09:16.040 --> 1:09:18.639 you might want something like that. Like I can understand 1:09:18.680 --> 1:09:21.960 how very specific purpose driven needs, but like as a 1:09:22.080 --> 1:09:26.120 normal person wanting an Amazon employee to be able to 1:09:26.240 --> 1:09:30.080 wander around your home, it seems weird to me. I 1:09:30.120 --> 1:09:32.320 mean that's obviously can also all that data getting used 1:09:32.320 --> 1:09:35.320 to Amazon can scan your entire house, figera what what 1:09:35.800 --> 1:09:39.439 products you buy, you know, what what non Amazon things 1:09:39.479 --> 1:09:41.519 are inside your home, what types of trends that you're using, 1:09:41.560 --> 1:09:42.880 and all that can get used to help get you 1:09:42.920 --> 1:09:45.240 to buy more things. That the the one of the 1:09:45.280 --> 1:09:48.040 morin Cities parts of like all of the marketing and 1:09:48.400 --> 1:09:51.120 some of like the some of like the video commercials 1:09:51.240 --> 1:09:54.439 for Ring that we saw, you know, playing on these giant, 1:09:54.600 --> 1:09:58.200 giant screens inside is they're they're really trying to also 1:09:58.360 --> 1:10:02.479 push the they're trying to push in a normalize using 1:10:02.640 --> 1:10:05.240 Ring as a part of your everyday life, but for 1:10:05.360 --> 1:10:08.479 non security means, like you know, when you're leaving your 1:10:08.520 --> 1:10:10.840 grandma's house, you say goodbye to her in her little 1:10:10.920 --> 1:10:13.200 ring camera. You know, when you when you're getting to 1:10:13.280 --> 1:10:15.240 your friend's house, you do a little funny pranks in 1:10:15.280 --> 1:10:17.280 front of their ring camera. It's like it's all these 1:10:17.360 --> 1:10:19.800 different ways to make rings seem like this fun and 1:10:19.880 --> 1:10:22.240 normal thing to like play with your friends and your 1:10:22.280 --> 1:10:28.200 family social, when in reality, look again, security cameras are 1:10:28.280 --> 1:10:31.040 inherently anti social. It doesn't mean that there aren't good 1:10:31.080 --> 1:10:33.760 reasons to have one. And as someone who's been burglarized, 1:10:33.800 --> 1:10:37.880 I do understand that, Um it's not bad, but it's 1:10:37.920 --> 1:10:41.000 anti social because you are surveilling people because you're worried 1:10:41.000 --> 1:10:43.200 about what they might do. That is that is a 1:10:43.280 --> 1:10:46.720 fundamentally anti social thing. And so the attempt to like 1:10:47.439 --> 1:10:49.479 turn that, the attempt to kind of like merge that 1:10:49.720 --> 1:10:53.960 into normal family life and to make it like friendly, 1:10:54.320 --> 1:10:59.280 is really bad. Yeah. I think that we briefly stopped 1:10:59.320 --> 1:11:00.680 by the A d T Booth and this is kind 1:11:00.680 --> 1:11:02.760 of this This is kind of similar to the little 1:11:02.840 --> 1:11:05.160 drone that we just talked about, but a little bit 1:11:05.200 --> 1:11:09.519 more ridiculous. Um, they have at the A d T 1:11:09.680 --> 1:11:14.719 booth this home security robot, like six six ft tall 1:11:14.840 --> 1:11:18.760 robot with uh with like a like like an like 1:11:18.920 --> 1:11:21.720 a lc D little face with this big smile on 1:11:21.840 --> 1:11:26.280 it and and it's powered or not powered. It is 1:11:26.360 --> 1:11:30.599 controlled by you, the owner, by wearing an Oculus headset, 1:11:31.200 --> 1:11:34.840 and it has it has rolling feet so it can 1:11:34.880 --> 1:11:37.439 move around by rolling. But it's like six ft tall. 1:11:37.479 --> 1:11:41.200 It has two arms, massive smiling face. And if if 1:11:41.280 --> 1:11:43.080 you have you know, your headset with you and you 1:11:43.160 --> 1:11:45.479 think someone's breaking into your home, you can put this 1:11:45.680 --> 1:11:49.439 on and control this robot to like chase them out. 1:11:50.200 --> 1:11:52.679 And I was overhearing that a d T guys talking 1:11:52.680 --> 1:11:54.560 about it, and they're like, yeah, this is even. This 1:11:54.680 --> 1:11:57.040 is even just like a great deterrence. Like imagine you're 1:11:57.120 --> 1:11:59.280 if someone's breaking into your home and then they see 1:11:59.320 --> 1:12:03.240 a massive smile like robot rolling towards you. I would 1:12:03.280 --> 1:12:09.080 run away very quickly, like like like what this This 1:12:09.240 --> 1:12:11.000 thing has to cost like tens of tens of thousands 1:12:11.040 --> 1:12:13.280 of dollars, and like this is what you're doing to 1:12:14.520 --> 1:12:16.880 feel like you're really just spend that much money to 1:12:17.360 --> 1:12:21.439 to create this sense of safety. Really really, this is 1:12:21.880 --> 1:12:23.800 this is what you're doing. You're you're you're getting a 1:12:23.960 --> 1:12:28.160 robot that gets powered by a Facebook headset so you 1:12:28.200 --> 1:12:30.600 can walk around your house in a rolling robot to 1:12:30.680 --> 1:12:33.639 make sure no one's gonna come you know, take random 1:12:33.720 --> 1:12:37.439 shipped from your house. Yeah, when like number one, Um, 1:12:38.400 --> 1:12:40.840 anyone who would do that is the kind of person 1:12:40.920 --> 1:12:43.760 that needs to be have things taken from them. Um. 1:12:44.960 --> 1:12:47.880 But number two like if you're actually concerned for your 1:12:47.920 --> 1:12:52.400 actual safety, and again I think that's perfectly valid. Um. 1:12:53.080 --> 1:12:56.200 None of these drones, this robot of security theater, it's 1:12:56.240 --> 1:13:01.599 not theater. It's easy to to like damage, it's easy. 1:13:01.640 --> 1:13:04.360 You can knockna it's it's a three wheels you knock 1:13:04.400 --> 1:13:06.920 it over. It can't get up, put on block so 1:13:07.040 --> 1:13:10.080 that you're completely covered, knock it over, and then proceed 1:13:10.160 --> 1:13:12.320 to rob the house. It's not useful. It's it's it's 1:13:12.320 --> 1:13:14.680 just a security alarm at that point. It's it's it's 1:13:14.760 --> 1:13:17.120 wild and like and people will find ways to hack 1:13:17.160 --> 1:13:20.160 them and stuff. You know, you can't hack a well 1:13:20.240 --> 1:13:22.800 trained guard dog, which also will cost you tens of 1:13:22.880 --> 1:13:26.160 thousands of dollars less, and we'll love you like a 1:13:26.240 --> 1:13:29.400 Doberman pincher will kill your enemies if they break into 1:13:29.439 --> 1:13:32.479 your home, and loves you like the same way. You know, 1:13:32.600 --> 1:13:35.120 there was people getting into Alexa machines. A few years 1:13:35.160 --> 1:13:38.760 ago there was Alexa Alexa machines listening and sending info 1:13:38.800 --> 1:13:40.639 when they weren't supposed to do. There was a mass 1:13:40.840 --> 1:13:43.360 there was a pretty big incident actually in Portland a 1:13:43.360 --> 1:13:46.479 few years ago of of Alexa listening in too when 1:13:46.520 --> 1:13:48.599 it was wasn't supposed to and and and like listening 1:13:48.600 --> 1:13:52.080 to different conversations and trying trying to finish conversational cues. Um. 1:13:52.479 --> 1:13:53.800 You know, it's only a matter of time before someone 1:13:53.840 --> 1:13:56.320 figures out how to control, how to remotely control one 1:13:56.320 --> 1:13:58.559 of these A D T robots and you have something 1:13:58.680 --> 1:14:01.160 like rolling around in your house that you don't control anymore. 1:14:01.280 --> 1:14:06.760 Like it's yeah, there are it's there are always vulnerabilities 1:14:06.800 --> 1:14:10.080 in these things and they always get hacked. Um. And 1:14:10.200 --> 1:14:12.640 more to the point, like well, if you have some 1:14:12.760 --> 1:14:16.280 sort of security drone like your ring drone, there's no 1:14:16.400 --> 1:14:19.559 way like again, Amazon would comply with law enforcement requests. 1:14:19.640 --> 1:14:22.800 There's nothing that says law enforcement, if it was part 1:14:22.840 --> 1:14:25.880 of an investigation, could not use this technology to surveil 1:14:25.960 --> 1:14:31.320 you in real time. UM. So I don't like that. UM, 1:14:31.720 --> 1:14:35.680 not my favorite. And while we're when we're talking about surveillance, Uh, 1:14:36.880 --> 1:14:40.360 we can't ignore our good friends at palent here. Now, 1:14:40.880 --> 1:14:44.040 if you haven't been paying attention to the surveillance industry. 1:14:44.080 --> 1:14:48.920 Palent Here is a company that exists to collect data 1:14:49.040 --> 1:14:53.320 and build machine solutions and machine learning solutions UM to 1:14:53.520 --> 1:14:57.880 surveil people and to help equipment like drones, targeting and 1:14:57.960 --> 1:15:01.280 whatnot work better. They're an intelligence company. There's like lots 1:15:01.320 --> 1:15:03.760 of systems. They do systems. It's not like they make 1:15:03.800 --> 1:15:07.160 a single product. They help build systems to collect data 1:15:07.720 --> 1:15:11.920 and enable governments and militaries to make decisions off of 1:15:12.000 --> 1:15:13.519 that data. That is like the thing that they do 1:15:13.680 --> 1:15:17.120 primarily systems analysts tracking. I mean, like what one of 1:15:17.200 --> 1:15:19.200 the one of the things we saw was them you know, 1:15:19.280 --> 1:15:21.920 analyzing homes to data around like water conservation. Right there, 1:15:21.960 --> 1:15:25.400 they're trying to put a variety of their usage not 1:15:25.600 --> 1:15:28.680 just kill brown people, but but they do a lot 1:15:28.760 --> 1:15:31.560 of the primary the center of their booth was this 1:15:31.800 --> 1:15:35.080 massive military truck with a huge armored box on the 1:15:35.160 --> 1:15:38.840 back that was filled with computers specifically to collect data 1:15:39.280 --> 1:15:43.040 and to um like do command and control for drone 1:15:43.120 --> 1:15:46.960 fleets in theater um And one of the things you 1:15:47.040 --> 1:15:49.240 know when you see a vehicle of that size and 1:15:49.280 --> 1:15:51.680 it was very massive, is that well, this is not 1:15:52.280 --> 1:15:55.320 this is intended either to be very far back from 1:15:55.360 --> 1:15:58.680 the front, which which mitigates some of the uses of it, 1:15:58.960 --> 1:16:00.960 or it is intended to be used in an area 1:16:01.080 --> 1:16:04.200 in which the enemy does not have air power. Um. 1:16:04.840 --> 1:16:07.800 But so again the kind of places where you're just 1:16:08.040 --> 1:16:11.960 bombing them, right, like theaters like Yemen where the rebels 1:16:12.040 --> 1:16:15.560 have minimal ability to do something like bomb a gigantic 1:16:15.720 --> 1:16:19.840 truck that's a target. Um, but you have kind of 1:16:19.960 --> 1:16:22.719 unrestricted ability to do stuff like drone strike school buses, 1:16:22.760 --> 1:16:26.200 which has happened repeatedly there. Um. We had a couple 1:16:26.240 --> 1:16:29.519 of conversations with the good people at Palanteer. Uh they 1:16:29.560 --> 1:16:33.040 were I don't I think we kind of figured out 1:16:34.000 --> 1:16:37.320 they were primarily they're looking for talent, because they were 1:16:37.360 --> 1:16:39.519 looking for people to recruit, looking for different things to 1:16:39.600 --> 1:16:42.320 integrate into their systems. Yeah, they would not show much 1:16:42.400 --> 1:16:45.920 of what they had. Everything inside the van itself was 1:16:46.520 --> 1:16:51.400 uh classified. Here would you hear me my phone? Find 1:16:51.439 --> 1:16:54.920 that person's name? But everything in there was was classified 1:16:55.000 --> 1:16:58.280 whenever we started talking, especially the first time we were there, 1:16:58.280 --> 1:17:01.240 because I started asking some pretty specific questions about what 1:17:01.479 --> 1:17:03.960 was actually in that and how it worked and how 1:17:04.000 --> 1:17:06.679 it was different from current drone command and control solutions. 1:17:07.120 --> 1:17:10.160 And there was a very specific woman with Palenteer who, 1:17:10.360 --> 1:17:12.160 no matter who I was talking to, would come up 1:17:12.240 --> 1:17:16.040 behind me and kind of direct conversation. And I think 1:17:16.120 --> 1:17:18.599 also was there to listen to the answers that were 1:17:18.640 --> 1:17:21.080 being provided to me and stop people from saying things 1:17:21.160 --> 1:17:24.559 on her team if they weren't supposed to say them. Um. 1:17:25.479 --> 1:17:29.040 There were a couple of occasions in which I asked, Hey, 1:17:29.160 --> 1:17:31.960 can we check this thing out on the inside, and 1:17:32.080 --> 1:17:34.160 we were told no, it was classified. No one else 1:17:34.200 --> 1:17:36.200 could get in. You have to you have to gain 1:17:36.240 --> 1:17:43.080 permission from the army. Yeah. I definitely saw some individuals exited, 1:17:43.200 --> 1:17:45.559 but they were Palenteer people. But then the next day 1:17:45.680 --> 1:17:50.439 we came back UM, and I watched a woman exit 1:17:50.960 --> 1:17:54.800 the vehicle UM and a man from Palenteer with her, 1:17:54.840 --> 1:17:56.720 but the woman was not from Palenteer. Now, people wear 1:17:56.760 --> 1:17:58.640 badges at c e s, so their names are on 1:17:58.760 --> 1:18:01.160 display and what they do was on display. Although it's 1:18:01.200 --> 1:18:03.120 easy to look this person up, and I saw she 1:18:03.160 --> 1:18:06.280 had a badge as a speaker. Her name was Mary 1:18:06.840 --> 1:18:09.800 or sorry, her name was Melody Hildebrand. UM, So I 1:18:10.000 --> 1:18:14.080 I googled Melody Hildebrand because I wanted to know she 1:18:14.200 --> 1:18:16.320 does not work for Palenteer. What is she doing inside 1:18:16.360 --> 1:18:21.040 Palentteer's giant class classified robot murder box? Uh Melody is 1:18:21.160 --> 1:18:25.000 the president of Blockchain Creative Labs and the chief information 1:18:25.120 --> 1:18:27.840 security officer for the Fox company, for the you know 1:18:28.040 --> 1:18:32.840 that Fox corporation. So it looked like by the way 1:18:32.920 --> 1:18:37.559 her her Twitter says, uh c I s O Fox 1:18:37.640 --> 1:18:41.439 Web three Engineering, cybersecurity, former war gamer, lover of farm animals, 1:18:42.680 --> 1:18:46.840 so that's cool. Um. And yeah, over here we've got 1:18:46.920 --> 1:18:50.599 her retweeting a post about and a rill, which is UM. 1:18:50.960 --> 1:18:55.559 One of the Peter Teel companies, like Palenteer, is raising 1:18:55.600 --> 1:18:58.880 one point four eight billion in their Series E funding. UM. 1:18:59.240 --> 1:19:01.320 This new funding will enable us to accelerate R and 1:19:01.400 --> 1:19:04.280 DED and bring new cutting edge autonomous defense capabilities to market. 1:19:04.439 --> 1:19:07.360 Now I don't know, I wonder what they mean by 1:19:07.360 --> 1:19:12.120 the word defense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's also pro n 1:19:12.200 --> 1:19:13.880 f T. So that's good. I'm gonna I'm gonna tweet 1:19:13.880 --> 1:19:18.040 to her in a little bit. Um. But no, it 1:19:18.200 --> 1:19:19.840 was it was very clear that there was you know, 1:19:19.960 --> 1:19:22.000 there was pr people on the ground to make sure 1:19:22.040 --> 1:19:24.519 that the line of questioning if they were too if 1:19:24.640 --> 1:19:27.800 people were asking questions about their surveillance tech, about this 1:19:28.160 --> 1:19:31.559 big Titan truck, which is what it's called Titan um 1:19:31.960 --> 1:19:35.160 that there's only very very specific answers, and like they 1:19:35.240 --> 1:19:37.000 were not there to talk to journalists. They were not 1:19:37.040 --> 1:19:39.439 there to talk to media. They were there to recruit 1:19:39.520 --> 1:19:43.720 people to you know, become more capable at their surveillance tech. 1:19:43.760 --> 1:19:48.160 That's that was very clear. Uh. They were also right 1:19:48.160 --> 1:19:52.800 across the street, right across the hall from the Fantastic 1:19:52.960 --> 1:19:56.719 Robos and Transformers robots. So on the on one side 1:19:56.800 --> 1:19:59.400 you have a fun optimist Prime robot that transforms, the 1:19:59.479 --> 1:20:03.840 other side you have the rolling metal deathcage. So that 1:20:04.040 --> 1:20:06.439 was that was that was most of Palentteer. They had 1:20:06.479 --> 1:20:10.160 this um sky box, which was this box that had 1:20:10.200 --> 1:20:15.120 like encrypted communications technology, uh, drones and drone drone piloting 1:20:15.160 --> 1:20:19.880 technology and like um, you know, a military computer that 1:20:20.160 --> 1:20:22.040 all in this little tiny box that they can drop 1:20:22.080 --> 1:20:26.759 into people who are you know, basically drop into people 1:20:26.880 --> 1:20:29.080 who are in trouble. Yeah, they were, they were. They 1:20:29.120 --> 1:20:31.439 were building it as basically number one. It would be 1:20:31.479 --> 1:20:33.599 for it could be for special forces teams. It has 1:20:33.720 --> 1:20:37.280 like a laptop in there, it has potentially several drones 1:20:37.360 --> 1:20:39.720 in there, um and it has like a bunch of 1:20:40.120 --> 1:20:43.040 specially modified field cameras you could set up surveillance on 1:20:43.080 --> 1:20:46.320 an area um and and those cameras kind of work 1:20:46.400 --> 1:20:49.120 with a machine learning algorithm to do stuff like try 1:20:49.160 --> 1:20:52.479 and identify where landmines are. And again like these are 1:20:53.720 --> 1:20:57.479 the stuff that's problematic primarily about palanteers. It's it's data collecting, 1:20:57.520 --> 1:21:00.320 its surveillance, and the fact that we know that drone 1:21:00.320 --> 1:21:04.519 warfare is generally pretty fucked up and has an extremely 1:21:04.600 --> 1:21:06.640 high civilian casualty rate and is used in a lot 1:21:06.680 --> 1:21:09.639 of theaters obviously, not in a lot of theaters where 1:21:09.640 --> 1:21:12.960 they are primarily just massacring people either fighting for their 1:21:13.040 --> 1:21:16.160 freedom or trying to survive. This is the problem with it. Obviously, 1:21:16.360 --> 1:21:19.040 all of this tech will also be used in generally 1:21:19.160 --> 1:21:21.640 positive things, like, for example, dropping a box like this 1:21:22.680 --> 1:21:25.640 into the hands of some Ukrainian special forces guys to 1:21:26.160 --> 1:21:30.840 to integrate them into a more advanced command and control 1:21:30.920 --> 1:21:34.760 networks so they have better access to tactical data like 1:21:35.000 --> 1:21:36.800 is not a thing. I don't specifically have a problem 1:21:36.800 --> 1:21:41.519 with that application. The problem is more broadly palent heer Um. 1:21:42.479 --> 1:21:43.719 Do you want to do do you want to briefly 1:21:43.760 --> 1:21:46.880 explain in case people are not Lord of the Rings fans. 1:21:47.160 --> 1:21:51.040 So again, these are all companies owned by Peter Thiel, 1:21:51.040 --> 1:21:55.200 who is a self described fascist, believes in ending democracy, 1:21:55.680 --> 1:21:58.880 believes that democracy and freedom are not compatible because freedom 1:21:59.560 --> 1:22:02.160 he defined mind specifically as the ability of people with 1:22:02.280 --> 1:22:04.320 lots of money to not have any kind of restrictions 1:22:04.360 --> 1:22:06.800 on their behavior or what they can compel other people 1:22:06.840 --> 1:22:10.760 to do. Peter Teal owns Palenteer and andy rill Um. 1:22:11.360 --> 1:22:14.720 The Palanteer Palenteer both of those are names from Lord 1:22:14.720 --> 1:22:16.240 of the Rings, and in Lord of the Rings, the 1:22:16.280 --> 1:22:19.760 Palenteer was an orb given by the Big Bad Guy 1:22:20.120 --> 1:22:24.440 Sawon to one of his lackeys, a wizard named Saramon, 1:22:24.840 --> 1:22:27.240 so that he could surveil any part of Middle Earth 1:22:27.280 --> 1:22:31.160 he wanted in order to send his armies to crush 1:22:31.280 --> 1:22:33.560 the free peoples of the world. Like that is that 1:22:33.720 --> 1:22:36.680 is literally what this company is named after. It is 1:22:36.760 --> 1:22:40.320 the bad guy surveillance tech to use the Orokai against 1:22:40.360 --> 1:22:42.840 the free people of Middle Earth. It is it is 1:22:42.880 --> 1:22:49.120 specifically something that only evil people use. Um, It's it's 1:22:49.160 --> 1:22:51.040 pretty cool that the whole company is named after. And 1:22:51.080 --> 1:22:54.599 there were all these very nice, polite people in uh 1:22:55.120 --> 1:23:02.160 Patagonia style vests with Palenteer logos stick on them, standing around. UM. 1:23:02.640 --> 1:23:06.880 Happy to answer any of your questions. Uh. Anyway, I'm 1:23:07.000 --> 1:23:09.720 I'm curious as to why Melody Hildebrandt was inside there. 1:23:09.760 --> 1:23:12.800 What the chief information security officer of Fox would want 1:23:12.840 --> 1:23:14.799 to do with one of those vans. That is curious. 1:23:14.840 --> 1:23:18.920 That is curious, she's on Twitter. I did reach out 1:23:19.000 --> 1:23:21.840 to her, but we that We also saw a few 1:23:21.880 --> 1:23:24.200 of the robot dogs. We saw the Boston the Dynamics one, 1:23:24.240 --> 1:23:27.920 which was very impressive and how it moves. Um. Then 1:23:27.960 --> 1:23:33.160 we saw one much more cheaper um uh model of 1:23:33.360 --> 1:23:36.000 of a robot dog that had not as great mobility, 1:23:36.280 --> 1:23:39.680 but it seemed to be more more suited towards the 1:23:39.720 --> 1:23:42.280 types of the types of style of dogs that were 1:23:42.400 --> 1:23:45.600 that we've seen law enforcements start to buy. Um, the 1:23:45.760 --> 1:23:50.640 cheaper ones with less flexibility, more mounts to attach you know, 1:23:50.800 --> 1:23:52.519 things to the top of the robot which you don't 1:23:52.560 --> 1:23:55.280 really see you with the Boston Dynamics ones. They do 1:23:55.400 --> 1:23:58.639 not like mounting extra things on. But the the other 1:23:58.760 --> 1:24:00.640 robot dog we saw had this little arm that it 1:24:00.760 --> 1:24:02.920 was that it was that that had attached to the 1:24:03.000 --> 1:24:06.400 top that was in the robotics section, pretty close to Palentteer. 1:24:06.640 --> 1:24:08.760 That one was much less impressive than because we saw 1:24:08.840 --> 1:24:11.280 both robot dogs and these are if you've see video 1:24:11.479 --> 1:24:15.400 of a robot dog that people are freaking about out 1:24:15.400 --> 1:24:19.200 about online, these are those robot dogs. UM. The one 1:24:19.280 --> 1:24:21.679 we saw with the arm on, it did not move. 1:24:21.880 --> 1:24:24.400 It was number one, controlled directly by a guy with 1:24:24.479 --> 1:24:27.479 a controller. It was not autonomous and it didn't move 1:24:27.680 --> 1:24:32.240 very smoothly. The sitting in front of the Boston Dynamic 1:24:32.360 --> 1:24:36.600 Spot spot and watching it move was really surre It 1:24:36.720 --> 1:24:39.439 was number one. We both talked about this Garrison. It's 1:24:39.520 --> 1:24:42.240 like watching c g I in real life because it's 1:24:42.320 --> 1:24:45.519 it's so fine tuned. Yeah, it moves like a living thing, 1:24:45.680 --> 1:24:48.600 but clearly is not UM and it moves like a 1:24:48.640 --> 1:24:50.479 living thing enough that it is not it's not an 1:24:50.560 --> 1:24:52.880 uncanny valley. That's not the right way to describe it now, 1:24:52.920 --> 1:24:57.120 because the movements are kind of perfect. It's just not 1:24:58.000 --> 1:25:01.280 it's alive. It's almost it's it's not uncanny valley. It's 1:25:01.280 --> 1:25:04.920 almost like instead, it's like too perfect. Yeah, it's it's 1:25:05.040 --> 1:25:07.760 just so fine tuned. It's it was pretty it was 1:25:07.760 --> 1:25:10.240 pretty impressive to watch. It was very impressive, and it 1:25:10.360 --> 1:25:12.320 it's become obvious to me that like, one of the 1:25:12.400 --> 1:25:15.040 things that absolutely is going on at Boston Dynamics is 1:25:15.120 --> 1:25:18.280 that they feel there is there is an it is 1:25:18.320 --> 1:25:21.320 important to them as a business. Some of this may 1:25:21.400 --> 1:25:23.760 just be that they this is a personal challenge for 1:25:23.800 --> 1:25:25.800 a lot of these engineering guys, but I suspect they 1:25:25.840 --> 1:25:29.480 also see this as valuable to their business to replicate 1:25:29.800 --> 1:25:32.240 physical emotionality. And when I talk about that, when you like, 1:25:32.680 --> 1:25:35.400 watch a dog, right, you can tell a dog's emotions 1:25:35.479 --> 1:25:37.320 from the way that the dog moves, because that's how 1:25:37.400 --> 1:25:42.320 dogs work. Um, the robot dog expresses physical emotion and 1:25:42.360 --> 1:25:46.160 obviously it doesn't feel emotion, but it physically expresses emotion 1:25:46.240 --> 1:25:49.599 in a similar way to a dog, like curiosity. They're 1:25:49.720 --> 1:25:53.000 very good at mimicking a curious dog in the way 1:25:53.040 --> 1:25:57.240 it's body language works, which is really wild. Yeah, that 1:25:57.720 --> 1:26:00.439 would be one of the things I did not like. Um. 1:26:01.240 --> 1:26:03.200 I mean, it's impressive. A lot of this stuff is 1:26:03.200 --> 1:26:06.280 objectively impressive. Most of the other robotics we saw there 1:26:07.680 --> 1:26:10.559 was not that impressive. Like I saw this this robot 1:26:10.600 --> 1:26:13.920 bartender that was making boba but it but it didn't 1:26:13.960 --> 1:26:16.840 know it didn't know how, or it wasn't able to 1:26:16.960 --> 1:26:20.599 actually deliver the boba onto the secondary robot that delivers 1:26:20.680 --> 1:26:23.880 the boba. So this this this one robot with arms 1:26:23.960 --> 1:26:26.640 made made the drink, a human picked it up, inspected it, 1:26:26.880 --> 1:26:29.080 then put it on a secondary robot which then delivered 1:26:29.120 --> 1:26:32.080 the trick. And I and this technology, I mean I 1:26:32.439 --> 1:26:35.599 I was eating at a at a at a Burmese 1:26:35.680 --> 1:26:38.000 place in Portland a few months ago where they were 1:26:38.120 --> 1:26:41.720 using this same food delivery robot system. It's not it's 1:26:41.760 --> 1:26:45.120 not brand new, it's just becoming cheaper and more people 1:26:45.200 --> 1:26:48.080 are trying to like make it a thing. And there 1:26:48.160 --> 1:26:50.000 was so there was a lot of those types of things, 1:26:50.040 --> 1:26:53.080 a lot of like R two D two on Jabba's 1:26:53.120 --> 1:26:58.280 sale barge, like delivering drinks style style robots that are autonomous, 1:26:58.360 --> 1:27:00.559 like they do move themselves around. They they don't need 1:27:00.840 --> 1:27:04.600 a remote controller, but they're not that impressive. But that 1:27:04.760 --> 1:27:06.640 that that was like the majority of stuff in the 1:27:06.720 --> 1:27:09.240 robotics section was that there was a few other kind 1:27:09.280 --> 1:27:14.120 of smaller rolling robots that were there assist like elderly people, 1:27:14.240 --> 1:27:16.720 like if if someone falls down, this kind of goes 1:27:16.720 --> 1:27:19.400 around and will help you. And yeah, I don't feel 1:27:19.439 --> 1:27:23.120 well that specific stuff. I don't feel like well suited 1:27:23.200 --> 1:27:26.040 to describe, like to guess as to how well it 1:27:26.080 --> 1:27:29.800 would work. UM. But I think more broadly talking about 1:27:29.800 --> 1:27:32.000 autonomous tech because that was one of the biggest product 1:27:32.120 --> 1:27:34.920 categories at SEA as it was all over the place. Um, 1:27:35.120 --> 1:27:36.519 there were a lot of cars and a lot of 1:27:36.560 --> 1:27:40.160 companies doing autonomous software and light our solutions for cars. 1:27:40.880 --> 1:27:43.599 I consider that all to be vaporware. There's a great 1:27:43.680 --> 1:27:47.920 deal of evidence here, but fully autonomous vehicles UM in 1:27:48.000 --> 1:27:50.080 the way that some of these companies are advertising is 1:27:50.120 --> 1:27:52.960 simply not They simply do do not exist, do not exist, 1:27:53.040 --> 1:27:54.560 and will not exist. And we did talk to a 1:27:54.640 --> 1:27:57.479 couple of people. So again for the stuff that's very 1:27:57.520 --> 1:28:01.040 real about autonomous tech, there's things like driver assistance, so 1:28:01.160 --> 1:28:04.160 for like truck drivers, to allow them to strain and 1:28:04.240 --> 1:28:08.000 stress themselves less while driving and to help um make 1:28:08.080 --> 1:28:10.040 certain things like backing up and parking that can be 1:28:10.200 --> 1:28:13.599 very difficult in certain environments safer by having more cameras 1:28:13.640 --> 1:28:15.880 and machine assistance. That makes sense. And one of the 1:28:15.880 --> 1:28:19.040 people who worked at one of those companies said to us, UM, yeah, 1:28:19.080 --> 1:28:22.280 there's no such thing as autonomous trucks or cars, like, 1:28:22.400 --> 1:28:25.519 they don't exist outside of very tightly controlled conditions. All 1:28:25.560 --> 1:28:28.320 we are trying to do is make truck driving safer 1:28:28.400 --> 1:28:32.160 and less stressful in the driver, which sounds great. Um. 1:28:32.840 --> 1:28:37.000 I mean, obviously there's problems with the way the trucking 1:28:37.040 --> 1:28:40.479 industry exists outside of that, but that sounds again like 1:28:40.640 --> 1:28:45.120 one of those products meant to actually mitigate worker fatigue 1:28:45.120 --> 1:28:48.640 and discomfort and potentially makes it safer. So I'm on 1:28:48.720 --> 1:28:51.640 board with that kind of stuff. But um, other like 1:28:51.760 --> 1:28:54.960 an autonomous and smart tech that we like, like like 1:28:55.479 --> 1:29:00.200 smart cars, um e V like electronic vehicles and auto 1:29:00.200 --> 1:29:01.960 of stuff. There was some stuff at the John Deer 1:29:02.000 --> 1:29:04.200 booth which it was pushing towards automation like we talked 1:29:04.200 --> 1:29:07.120 about in the last episode. And then also they're they're 1:29:07.360 --> 1:29:11.400 evy tractor just launched, which so John Deer, if you're 1:29:11.400 --> 1:29:15.160 not aware, has had a series of long running legal battles, 1:29:15.200 --> 1:29:18.559 particularly with farmers in Ukraine, over the fact that they 1:29:18.680 --> 1:29:22.320 do not want it to be possible or legal for 1:29:22.439 --> 1:29:25.000 you to repair your tractor if you're a farmer. Farmers 1:29:25.080 --> 1:29:28.439 have previously in history often repaired and fixed and modified 1:29:28.479 --> 1:29:33.240 their vehicles. Um, this is both necessary if a thing breaks, 1:29:33.520 --> 1:29:36.479 you can't always get it back to a manufacturing facility 1:29:36.560 --> 1:29:38.120 in time. And a lot of farmers in the middle 1:29:38.120 --> 1:29:39.360 of nowhere. A lot of farms are in the middle 1:29:39.360 --> 1:29:41.120 of nowhere, which is where food comes from. And you 1:29:41.240 --> 1:29:44.840 also like, you can't wait, you can't just be like, well, 1:29:44.880 --> 1:29:47.040 let's just put harvesting off for a week or two. 1:29:47.160 --> 1:29:51.240 That that is a problem. Um. John Deere sees that 1:29:51.320 --> 1:29:53.120 as a severe threat to their profits, and they have 1:29:53.240 --> 1:29:57.000 fought viciously in courts UH to make it, to try 1:29:57.080 --> 1:30:00.320 to make it illegal to repair your own devices. Um. 1:30:00.600 --> 1:30:02.080 They have lost a lot of those fights in the 1:30:02.160 --> 1:30:05.240 United States, and to its credit, the Biden administration has 1:30:05.280 --> 1:30:07.799 taken a strong stance in favor of the right to repair. 1:30:08.400 --> 1:30:12.040 And what we saw from John Deere at this CS 1:30:12.120 --> 1:30:15.479 was a bunch of very impressive autonomous products that just 1:30:16.000 --> 1:30:19.439 coincidentally will also make it completely impossible to repair your tractors, 1:30:20.080 --> 1:30:23.519 like specifically with the new EV tractor that launched. So 1:30:23.720 --> 1:30:27.440 much of it is a computer that it is impossible 1:30:27.520 --> 1:30:29.600 to repair unless you work for John Deere. Like we 1:30:29.680 --> 1:30:33.040 when we asked them, like, hey, you know, if if 1:30:33.080 --> 1:30:35.120 this thing breaks down. How how would a farmer go 1:30:35.160 --> 1:30:37.640 about trying to fix this since it is a lot 1:30:37.680 --> 1:30:39.880 of it is like not it's it's it's not like 1:30:40.040 --> 1:30:42.560 motors and stuff from like a classic car. It is 1:30:43.000 --> 1:30:47.040 it is like it is computer driven. Um, and they're 1:30:47.080 --> 1:30:50.440 like they just can't. It's just it's just so complicated 1:30:50.800 --> 1:30:54.080 that an average person cannot repair this like at all. 1:30:54.160 --> 1:30:57.559 It's just it just it's impossible. So that's the way 1:30:57.640 --> 1:31:02.200 they are gonna try to it around this, uh, this 1:31:02.600 --> 1:31:04.880 right to repair issue. Yeah, we will just and the 1:31:05.040 --> 1:31:06.880 and it's being done under the guys of well you 1:31:07.120 --> 1:31:09.519 you know, by having this much more advanced we can 1:31:09.600 --> 1:31:11.719 use a lot less pesticide, which is better for the soil, 1:31:11.760 --> 1:31:15.639 better for everything, um, using less carbonius and less carbon 1:31:16.120 --> 1:31:19.000 the farmer will have more time because the vehicle can 1:31:19.080 --> 1:31:21.880 handle this autonomously. So that's eight hours the farmer you know, 1:31:22.000 --> 1:31:24.920 gets to to spend doing something else and um, all 1:31:24.960 --> 1:31:27.240 of this stuff that's kind of meant to distract from 1:31:27.280 --> 1:31:29.360 like well, I guess yeah, maybe he'll have more time, 1:31:29.439 --> 1:31:33.160 but also substantially less autonomy and be completely dependent upon 1:31:33.200 --> 1:31:36.439 the John Deer Corporation in order to produce the food 1:31:36.520 --> 1:31:39.760 that human beings need to survive. UM. I'm also gonna 1:31:40.040 --> 1:31:41.960 point it out there and say I started this by 1:31:42.000 --> 1:31:44.400 saying that, like, one of the major lawsuits was between 1:31:44.479 --> 1:31:47.320 John Deer and a lot of a group of Ukrainian farmers. Um, 1:31:47.640 --> 1:31:49.920 the same farmers presumably who were towing a lot of 1:31:50.000 --> 1:31:54.240 Russian ordinance away with the John Deer tractors. UM. I 1:31:54.280 --> 1:31:57.439 don't know that it's that kind of stuff. And one 1:31:57.439 --> 1:31:59.080 of the things that I think looking at a lot 1:31:59.120 --> 1:32:01.960 of this autonomous tech, some of it's great, some of 1:32:02.040 --> 1:32:06.479 it could will save lives. Some of it Rather than 1:32:06.560 --> 1:32:09.280 like reducing the need for humans to do work that 1:32:09.400 --> 1:32:10.760 it would be good if they didn't have to do, 1:32:11.240 --> 1:32:15.200 we'll do just what you recognize, create an even less 1:32:15.320 --> 1:32:18.320 human job for a human, like taking drinks from a 1:32:18.640 --> 1:32:21.439 robot that makes drinks to a robot that carries them 1:32:21.479 --> 1:32:23.680 to people. Because we we just couldn't figure out that 1:32:23.760 --> 1:32:28.280 interstitial step. So your job as a human being, as 1:32:28.360 --> 1:32:31.560 a as a member of of of a species that 1:32:31.720 --> 1:32:36.160 spent millions of years evolving to be capable of creating 1:32:36.240 --> 1:32:38.840 nearly anything, your job will be to take a drink 1:32:38.880 --> 1:32:40.920 from one robot and set it down at another I 1:32:40.960 --> 1:32:43.599 mean we we The thing is like that we already 1:32:43.680 --> 1:32:47.799 had that same idea in factories, Like as as factories 1:32:47.840 --> 1:32:50.800 have gone towards being more made by machines, they're still 1:32:50.800 --> 1:32:52.519 as factory workers who need to do all this little 1:32:52.560 --> 1:32:55.600 in between steps. So we're taking this factory model and 1:32:55.680 --> 1:32:58.559 now just applying it to customer service doing the same thing, 1:32:58.680 --> 1:33:00.840 trying to automize as much as pop simile and then 1:33:00.880 --> 1:33:02.680 only rely on humans for all of these little in 1:33:02.760 --> 1:33:05.720 between steps that for some reason the robots and all 1:33:05.760 --> 1:33:08.000 of the autonomous texts isn't very good at yet or 1:33:08.120 --> 1:33:11.880 you know, isn't really focused on completing. And that's that's 1:33:11.920 --> 1:33:14.920 the main thing that that humans are going to be 1:33:15.080 --> 1:33:17.800 are going to be doing in the in the autonomous 1:33:17.880 --> 1:33:21.439 Boba store that's gonna come to your neighborhood in like 1:33:21.520 --> 1:33:25.240 ten years. Speaking of bad things about the future or 1:33:25.280 --> 1:33:28.480 at least the present, let's talk about Elon Musk's celebrity 1:33:28.520 --> 1:33:32.160 death tunnel. So, if you're not aware Elon, one of 1:33:32.240 --> 1:33:35.519 the companies, actually the company he started that is based 1:33:35.560 --> 1:33:39.160 on his own legitimate ideas is the boring company UM, 1:33:39.360 --> 1:33:43.519 which makes big tubes underground, uh so that people can 1:33:43.600 --> 1:33:47.280 drive their individual cars through them and avoid traffic. Now. 1:33:47.360 --> 1:33:49.599 Elon Musk is a man who takes his private jet 1:33:50.320 --> 1:33:53.400 between airports in the same city in order to avoid traffic. 1:33:53.800 --> 1:33:55.720 There is nothing he hates more than the idea of 1:33:55.840 --> 1:33:58.880 being a normal person or being at all connected to 1:33:58.960 --> 1:34:00.920 the lives of regular people, which is why you get 1:34:00.960 --> 1:34:03.920 a private jet UM when you could just like fly 1:34:04.080 --> 1:34:06.000 first class or something, because even if you're flying for 1:34:06.160 --> 1:34:08.400 first class, you're still going to an airport and through 1:34:08.439 --> 1:34:14.120 security around like the poor the poors. UM. Elon has 1:34:14.200 --> 1:34:18.920 been vociferous about his hatred of of traffic um transit, 1:34:19.040 --> 1:34:21.400 but also he hates public transit because you might sit 1:34:21.520 --> 1:34:24.720 next to a serial killer. UM. So his solution is 1:34:24.800 --> 1:34:28.559 dig holes underground and let people drive there. And Uh. 1:34:29.280 --> 1:34:31.840 Most of the cities that have attempted to have bording 1:34:31.880 --> 1:34:34.600 tunnels completed have been ghosted by the company. It is 1:34:34.720 --> 1:34:37.280 kind of a con um. But they did build one 1:34:37.320 --> 1:34:40.559 in Las Vegas and Garrison and I used it, uh 1:34:40.680 --> 1:34:42.839 and it took us from one side of the convention 1:34:42.920 --> 1:34:46.920 center to the other. Um. We potentially, if we had 1:34:47.040 --> 1:34:49.479 made the most use of this service, we we might 1:34:49.520 --> 1:34:52.800 have gotten at a five to seven minutes that we 1:34:52.880 --> 1:34:56.559 didn't have to walk just just you and me alone 1:34:56.840 --> 1:34:59.080 inside the tesla, not having to be around other people 1:34:59.720 --> 1:35:03.439 in in the in the RGB tunnel if you're in 1:35:03.920 --> 1:35:06.120 One of the things Lama has literally said is like, well, 1:35:06.160 --> 1:35:07.720 if you take public transit, you might sit next to 1:35:07.760 --> 1:35:10.479 some serial killer. The way this tunnel thing works is 1:35:10.520 --> 1:35:12.320 you tell them whether you're going east or west, and 1:35:12.400 --> 1:35:15.080 they put you in a tesla that some dude is 1:35:15.160 --> 1:35:17.160 driving that you don't know, and then they fill the 1:35:17.200 --> 1:35:20.080 tesla with other other people that you also don't know. 1:35:20.280 --> 1:35:22.800 You're still sitting next to stranger and you're in this 1:35:23.560 --> 1:35:26.240 this tube that is lit up the same way a 1:35:26.320 --> 1:35:29.479 pair of like Razor gaming headphones are lit up um 1:35:30.080 --> 1:35:33.639 and you just slowly stuck in this tunnel with two 1:35:33.800 --> 1:35:39.880 random people who you don't know. I horrible, like one 1:35:40.000 --> 1:35:42.360 thing I feel like, obviously if you're in like New 1:35:42.439 --> 1:35:44.040 York or something or Berlin. I've been in a lot 1:35:44.080 --> 1:35:46.040 of cities where I've traveled on the underground, and I 1:35:46.080 --> 1:35:49.920 don't feel scared traveling in the underground because those have 1:35:50.040 --> 1:35:51.880 existed for a very long time, and so we know 1:35:52.040 --> 1:35:54.200 what happens when there's floods and when there's fires, and 1:35:54.240 --> 1:35:56.120 there's a lot of systems built, which is why you 1:35:56.200 --> 1:35:59.400 don't generally hear about a shipload of people dying in 1:35:59.720 --> 1:36:02.080 sub way. I used an extremely safe way to travel. 1:36:02.720 --> 1:36:06.479 This tunnel is filled with vehicles that take we know 1:36:06.720 --> 1:36:09.640 about fifty five gallons of water to put out a 1:36:09.720 --> 1:36:12.479 fire when the battery catches fire, and the batteries on 1:36:12.560 --> 1:36:16.400 Tesla's we also know, catch fire with some regularity. And 1:36:16.479 --> 1:36:19.839 you are trapped in a tunnel. Uh, there is sometimes traffic. 1:36:20.240 --> 1:36:21.920 Near the end of our ride, we wound up in 1:36:21.960 --> 1:36:25.439 a line of like twenty Tesla's and that did not 1:36:25.640 --> 1:36:28.200 feel good because you just you can see nothing but 1:36:28.320 --> 1:36:31.120 Tesla's ahead of you and behind you, and you're surrounded 1:36:31.840 --> 1:36:35.960 entirely by this tight claustrophobic wall with absolutely no emergency 1:36:36.000 --> 1:36:39.280 exit's visible. So in fire suppression systems visible, I don't 1:36:39.320 --> 1:36:41.240 know what they have installed, but you can't see anything. 1:36:41.479 --> 1:36:43.479 You cannot see a thing. All you see is the 1:36:44.200 --> 1:36:48.760 Razor r GB gaming mouse. And then as as so, 1:36:48.880 --> 1:36:50.640 as soon as we got off this this thing that 1:36:50.720 --> 1:36:52.519 was supposed to take us to like the central area, 1:36:52.560 --> 1:36:54.200 it just took us to the other side of the 1:36:54.200 --> 1:36:56.160 convention center in order to actually get to where we 1:36:56.240 --> 1:36:58.479 needed to go, we just use the monorail, the thing 1:36:58.520 --> 1:37:00.439 that's been there for a long time, and it's fine. 1:37:01.720 --> 1:37:03.840 And mono rails are also not great ideas for a 1:37:03.880 --> 1:37:05.600 lot of reasons. But it got us right to the 1:37:05.640 --> 1:37:08.880 other end of the strip very quickly, conveniently, cleanly. It 1:37:08.960 --> 1:37:15.479 took cost five dollars um. So good work, Ellen. I 1:37:15.640 --> 1:37:19.759 love the tunnel. I hope you're proud, ringing, ringing indoors. 1:37:19.880 --> 1:37:21.360 I can't wait for there to be tunnels like that 1:37:21.439 --> 1:37:23.599 in every city. Don't worry, they want the boring company 1:37:23.720 --> 1:37:28.960 is not a real company. Um yeah, anything else care? 1:37:30.120 --> 1:37:32.759 I mean we already talked about the digital health stuff, 1:37:33.000 --> 1:37:39.960 which was a very big part of the ES. UM. Yeah, 1:37:40.000 --> 1:37:41.360 that's I think that's most of what we want to 1:37:41.840 --> 1:37:47.599 touch on for now. Okay, well that's gonna just about 1:37:47.680 --> 1:37:50.240 do it for all of us here at whatever show 1:37:50.360 --> 1:37:54.560 this is. UM we will at some point have some 1:37:54.680 --> 1:37:56.920 stuff based on Oh yeah, actually, let's let's in by 1:37:57.160 --> 1:37:59.599 I went in by talking about Um, I guess another 1:37:59.680 --> 1:38:02.040 good thing, but it's a good thing that relates to 1:38:02.120 --> 1:38:06.040 the bad things. Um. We ran across a booth on 1:38:06.120 --> 1:38:08.200 our way out that on the first day I had 1:38:08.280 --> 1:38:12.840 seen and I had thought was just UM like a 1:38:13.000 --> 1:38:16.240 I had assumed it was like a GPS solution or 1:38:16.280 --> 1:38:19.519 something because the company was called off grid UM, and 1:38:19.640 --> 1:38:22.280 it's the off grid phone. We talked to the founder 1:38:22.280 --> 1:38:25.320 of the company, Ben Wilson, who was just a guy who, 1:38:25.800 --> 1:38:29.280 as he put it, does not like that. Uh. We 1:38:29.680 --> 1:38:33.760 consistently seated more and more control over our data and 1:38:34.280 --> 1:38:39.040 over our communications to large companies and governments and whoever 1:38:39.120 --> 1:38:41.640 the funk else gets access to these massive and or 1:38:41.720 --> 1:38:45.880 massive not anonymous data sets, and wanted to build a 1:38:46.000 --> 1:38:49.280 thing for himself that could eventually replace his smartphone. UM. 1:38:49.720 --> 1:38:52.920 So he and the company he started have produced these 1:38:53.320 --> 1:38:56.160 their dumb phones at this moment that context and can 1:38:56.280 --> 1:38:59.880 call and do encrypted end to end communication. They also, 1:39:00.080 --> 1:39:02.040 if you are off grid, like in the middle of nowhere, 1:39:02.360 --> 1:39:04.440 and you and your friends have these, you can communicate 1:39:04.520 --> 1:39:06.400 through text through your phone to each other even if 1:39:06.439 --> 1:39:09.160 there is no network. Right. The phones themselves do like 1:39:09.360 --> 1:39:12.040 make a network. They communicate just just to each other, 1:39:12.120 --> 1:39:13.880 just to each other. You can do don't connect to 1:39:13.920 --> 1:39:16.040 the why their internet? Yeah, which is really cool and 1:39:16.120 --> 1:39:19.080 potentially extremely useful. This is this is UM there's a 1:39:19.160 --> 1:39:21.759 number of applications that this could have. Garrison you mentioned 1:39:21.800 --> 1:39:24.320 that the Atlanta Forest Defense people could benefit from something 1:39:24.400 --> 1:39:27.320 like this because it will effectively they're about two hundred 1:39:27.320 --> 1:39:29.360 bucks apiece. Anyone who can afford a few of these, 1:39:29.400 --> 1:39:32.760 you can set up your own secure comms network for 1:39:32.840 --> 1:39:35.280 wherever you are and whatever you're doing, and and the other. 1:39:35.479 --> 1:39:38.160 The other feature of this is that you can set 1:39:38.200 --> 1:39:42.599 it onto something called sheep mode, where basically, if if 1:39:42.800 --> 1:39:46.360 if you suspect that that someone who you don't want 1:39:46.400 --> 1:39:48.639 to look at your phone, whether that's law enforcement, whether 1:39:48.720 --> 1:39:52.320 that's other random random other people, you can set it 1:39:52.360 --> 1:39:55.679 to this mode that when they when they either seize 1:39:55.800 --> 1:39:59.640 or gain gain possession of this device, all of the 1:40:00.040 --> 1:40:02.840 the the data is immediately wiped before they can actually 1:40:02.880 --> 1:40:06.080 open up the phone. Um and they will open it up, 1:40:06.080 --> 1:40:10.120 they will see this fake profile that called the called 1:40:10.400 --> 1:40:13.200 not fake profile, but like this, this alternate profile called 1:40:13.240 --> 1:40:17.560 it called the sheep profile, which shows not not the 1:40:17.600 --> 1:40:18.920 stuff that not the stuff that you were using the 1:40:18.960 --> 1:40:20.880 food for. You can then just be blank or you 1:40:20.920 --> 1:40:23.640 could like stick other numbers in there. You could have 1:40:23.800 --> 1:40:25.920 like a series of fake text but and then and 1:40:26.240 --> 1:40:28.439 but if you ever regain possession of the phone, you're 1:40:28.479 --> 1:40:32.599 able to put in UM a special a special password 1:40:32.960 --> 1:40:37.160 that will it will send the data. It'll it'll it'll 1:40:37.760 --> 1:40:40.280 send the data through encryption back onto this device. So 1:40:40.360 --> 1:40:42.200 you still have the things that you would have lost. 1:40:42.920 --> 1:40:46.160 And obviously there's a degree of like you would have 1:40:46.280 --> 1:40:49.080 to have some trust for the company, yes, which says 1:40:49.120 --> 1:40:51.920 like and Ben says, like, we are attempting to do this. 1:40:52.040 --> 1:40:54.000 He was very open about the fact that that they 1:40:54.040 --> 1:40:55.920 have the phones, we saw them, like some of this 1:40:56.000 --> 1:40:57.840 stuff is still getting built out. It is it is 1:40:58.080 --> 1:40:59.920 is still in development. They're still figuring out but for 1:41:00.120 --> 1:41:03.080 ways to keep the servers secure, to protect the servers 1:41:03.120 --> 1:41:06.000 from subpoenas from the American government and from other from 1:41:06.040 --> 1:41:08.680 other governments, like there's this this is still something that 1:41:08.880 --> 1:41:11.200 is being worked on. Uh. It was just one of 1:41:11.320 --> 1:41:13.840 the you know, we we see a lot of like 1:41:13.960 --> 1:41:17.200 like a lot of lofty promises and very very little 1:41:17.240 --> 1:41:19.080 thing to show for this. This is one of the 1:41:19.200 --> 1:41:21.760 things that had actually you know, just this one guy 1:41:22.000 --> 1:41:25.320 that had you know, some pretty some pretty relatable promises 1:41:26.040 --> 1:41:28.200 UM and and it's very open about what they have 1:41:28.400 --> 1:41:30.040 done and what they haven't done. And what they're trying 1:41:30.080 --> 1:41:32.000 to do now. He he he was, he was, He 1:41:32.120 --> 1:41:34.920 was not bullshitting. He wasn't trying to over emphasize what 1:41:35.000 --> 1:41:37.200 it can do UM or what I can do at 1:41:37.240 --> 1:41:38.880 the moment, like it's it's still being worked on. But 1:41:38.920 --> 1:41:40.000 this is one of the one of the one of 1:41:40.080 --> 1:41:42.040 the few, one of the future things that we will 1:41:42.040 --> 1:41:44.479 be that we will want to follow up on. And 1:41:45.200 --> 1:41:46.640 I think we're going to try to have been on 1:41:46.720 --> 1:41:48.439 the show in the near future because they're going to 1:41:48.479 --> 1:41:50.840 be doing a Kickstarter to fund one of the next 1:41:50.920 --> 1:41:53.280 phases of production of this UM. But you can you 1:41:53.360 --> 1:41:55.840 can look them up yourself. You can buy the version 1:41:55.920 --> 1:41:58.040 one of their product, which is on sale and functional 1:41:58.120 --> 1:42:02.000 now at off grid phone own dot com. Spelled the 1:42:02.080 --> 1:42:04.920 way you would expect UM. So yeah, check out off 1:42:04.960 --> 1:42:07.720 grid phone dot com. We found it interesting, will be 1:42:07.960 --> 1:42:11.439 following up on that. Um. Ben gave me very strong 1:42:11.760 --> 1:42:14.680 the good kind of libertarian vibes. Reminded me of a 1:42:14.720 --> 1:42:17.000 couple of people I've I used to hang out with 1:42:17.120 --> 1:42:20.519 in my youth, and it's very much is that kind 1:42:20.560 --> 1:42:23.559 of like product of just a cranky guy who knows 1:42:23.760 --> 1:42:27.599 tech and is angry at all of the data being 1:42:27.720 --> 1:42:29.720 sucked up and all of the data that we just 1:42:29.840 --> 1:42:33.679 kind of agree together we're going to give away two 1:42:33.960 --> 1:42:37.519 unsavory characters because life in the modern world is kind 1:42:37.560 --> 1:42:39.600 of impossible if you don't do that. No, I'm like 1:42:39.800 --> 1:42:42.240 one of one of the things on his signs was 1:42:42.520 --> 1:42:44.960 something along the lines of don't let the pope po 1:42:45.280 --> 1:42:48.840 look at your phone. So like it's yeah, it is 1:42:48.880 --> 1:42:51.840 somebody who gets it. Yeah, yeah, we liked we liked 1:42:51.880 --> 1:42:55.120 ben Um. So yeah, that is that is the dark 1:42:55.200 --> 1:42:59.120 side of the future of tech, as this year's CES 1:42:59.160 --> 1:43:02.200 has unveiled it to us. Um. You know, this is 1:43:02.280 --> 1:43:04.840 the also the conclusion of our reporting directly on the 1:43:04.880 --> 1:43:07.840 convention itself. We will have some reporting in the future 1:43:07.880 --> 1:43:09.479 that will be influenced by things we found here that 1:43:09.479 --> 1:43:11.479 we're going to continue to look up. But um and 1:43:11.600 --> 1:43:13.200 and we should have we should have some of the 1:43:13.240 --> 1:43:16.360 audio that we pulled from inside the convention center that 1:43:16.400 --> 1:43:18.519 should be edited together sometime in the near future. Talk 1:43:18.600 --> 1:43:20.880 to Paler. That'll be fine. Yes, As as a little 1:43:20.960 --> 1:43:24.760 kind of documentary, little daily diary of of of what 1:43:24.880 --> 1:43:27.080 we were actually doing on the ground. So that's being 1:43:27.120 --> 1:43:29.679 worked on. But this is this is as we're recording 1:43:29.720 --> 1:43:31.320 right now. This is the final day of CES. We 1:43:31.400 --> 1:43:35.360 are almost done. We have we are both very sore. 1:43:35.960 --> 1:43:38.680 Is surprisingly hard on your body. We have to enter 1:43:38.920 --> 1:43:41.280 Eureka Park one more time, but then we will be finished, 1:43:41.920 --> 1:43:44.280 and then we'll have to upload this and and edit 1:43:44.680 --> 1:43:46.599 edit the rest of the stuff we've made into into 1:43:46.600 --> 1:43:48.400 a little piece for you. So that is that that 1:43:48.479 --> 1:43:50.719 is still coming, you say, we, which was very generous. 1:43:50.800 --> 1:43:53.519 You're going to be doing that. Me and Daniels I 1:43:53.560 --> 1:43:56.120 will not be editing anything. Um. I don't know how 1:43:56.200 --> 1:44:17.160 to anyway. Go to Hell. I love you. Hagel remarks 1:44:17.200 --> 1:44:21.000 somewhere that all great world historical facts and personages appear, 1:44:21.400 --> 1:44:25.519 so to speak twice you forgot to add the first 1:44:25.560 --> 1:44:29.720 time as tragedy, the second time as farce. Welcome to Nick. 1:44:29.720 --> 1:44:32.599 It happened here the podcast where when we last left 1:44:32.680 --> 1:44:35.719 Jayerree Bolsonaro, he had locked himself in the presidential mansion, 1:44:35.880 --> 1:44:38.200 turned off the lights, and refused to leave or talk 1:44:38.240 --> 1:44:42.240 to anyone. Now, Bolsonaro has returned to his ancestral home 1:44:42.800 --> 1:44:45.679 hospital in Orlando, where he's been admitted for abdominal pain, 1:44:48.439 --> 1:44:51.240 joining me to discuss maybe the first man in history 1:44:51.360 --> 1:44:55.760 to be his own Napoleon. The third is James. Hi, man, 1:44:55.920 --> 1:44:59.840 this is I'm very much looking forward to this. Oh god. 1:45:00.080 --> 1:45:03.760 I okay, So for for those of you who I 1:45:03.800 --> 1:45:08.640 don't know somehow have missed this. I I woke up 1:45:08.760 --> 1:45:12.880 on Sunday and ten minutes later this was happening, and 1:45:13.000 --> 1:45:15.360 I was like, well, okay, I guess I'm canceling my 1:45:15.439 --> 1:45:20.519 dinner plans were doing this instead. Yeah, I think Marx 1:45:20.560 --> 1:45:22.320 could have added to that quote and then as fast 1:45:22.360 --> 1:45:25.200 again and then for a third time as fast. Yeah. 1:45:25.360 --> 1:45:27.559 We really, we really, we really have sort of left 1:45:27.600 --> 1:45:29.559 the tragedy cycle and on now just in the forest 1:45:29.640 --> 1:45:32.600 over and over and over again. Yeah, we kind of 1:45:32.680 --> 1:45:35.320 need a new word for what keeps happening because it's 1:45:35.320 --> 1:45:37.600 not it's not really a coup and it's certainly not 1:45:37.680 --> 1:45:42.439 a revolution. It's just like an extreme reactionary tantrum. Yeah, 1:45:42.479 --> 1:45:45.040 I mean, I kind of like storming the capital because 1:45:45.800 --> 1:45:48.720 it is what they do. But then yeah, I don't know, 1:45:48.880 --> 1:45:52.920 like I'm upset that everyone calls it insurrectionism or insurrectionist 1:45:52.960 --> 1:45:56.800 because it's like they're not like insurrectionary reactionary is like 1:45:56.880 --> 1:45:59.759 a power. Yeah, It's like, like I think like auto 1:46:00.000 --> 1:46:02.439 who is closer. But the problem with COO is that 1:46:02.600 --> 1:46:07.519 coop implies that the military is actually cooperating, which it isn't. Yeah, 1:46:07.560 --> 1:46:10.960 and that's why they always failed. Yeah, we're going to 1:46:11.000 --> 1:46:13.640 get into that more in a bit, but yeah, okay, So, 1:46:13.800 --> 1:46:17.759 so the thing that has actually happened is on Sunday, 1:46:18.120 --> 1:46:23.080 supporters of of UH former former Brazilian president Jay Bilsonaro, 1:46:23.880 --> 1:46:30.040 who I fled the country to Orlando. I sacked the 1:46:30.120 --> 1:46:32.880 Plaza of the Three Powers in Brazil, which is the 1:46:32.960 --> 1:46:35.400 home of the basically the buildings are the three branches 1:46:35.439 --> 1:46:38.880 of governments, and unlike in the US, they sacked all 1:46:38.960 --> 1:46:41.559 of them. They stored their presidential mansion, they stormed Congress, 1:46:41.600 --> 1:46:44.679 they stormed the Supreme Court, and then having seized control 1:46:44.680 --> 1:46:47.559 of the buildings, as cops either sat around joking with him, 1:46:47.560 --> 1:46:50.240 which is actively walked them into the building. Like there 1:46:50.360 --> 1:46:54.920 is a video of a procession of Bolsonaro supporters with 1:46:55.200 --> 1:46:57.719 just like they're they're all walking in a line towards 1:46:57.800 --> 1:47:00.280 the plaza and there's just like two cop cars like 1:47:00.400 --> 1:47:02.600 in the middle of the thing driving with them like 1:47:03.040 --> 1:47:06.920 it's wild. There are cups taking selfies of them, taking 1:47:06.960 --> 1:47:10.320 selfies yeah, like I that that one that was the 1:47:10.400 --> 1:47:13.040 one in particular that was like, I feel like that 1:47:13.720 --> 1:47:16.640 goes slightly above and beyond even what was happening with 1:47:16.760 --> 1:47:24.120 with the American cops. Like that was some Yeah, yeah, 1:47:24.160 --> 1:47:27.240 it's okay. So they get there, they do that, they 1:47:27.320 --> 1:47:28.960 do the thing where they grab metal stuff and they 1:47:29.040 --> 1:47:33.040 break the windows and then they break in and you know, 1:47:33.160 --> 1:47:37.400 they they do classic January six stuff. Um, they take pictures. 1:47:37.520 --> 1:47:40.280 There's one picture that I found that's I think it's 1:47:40.320 --> 1:47:45.040 in the Supreme Court. That's a picture of someone like 1:47:45.479 --> 1:47:47.920 you can't see their face. It's just them squatting on 1:47:48.000 --> 1:47:51.360 a like facing backwards, squatting on it on a filing 1:47:51.479 --> 1:47:58.479 cabinet like fully butt out about take a dump. It's wild. Yeah, 1:47:58.720 --> 1:48:02.280 it's just what democracy lived like yeah, and shifting on 1:48:02.360 --> 1:48:06.720 a finding cabinet and government office. Yeah. Okay, so like 1:48:06.800 --> 1:48:11.200 they this this. They don't have a great plan here. Um. 1:48:11.640 --> 1:48:13.000 The thing that they do is that so they all 1:48:13.040 --> 1:48:15.160 do this. They break in, they like break stuff, they 1:48:15.280 --> 1:48:19.559 like take random stuff. Um, and then they a whole 1:48:19.600 --> 1:48:21.280 bunch of people sit down on the ground and sing 1:48:21.360 --> 1:48:24.280 the national anthem, uh, waiting for the army to show up. 1:48:24.320 --> 1:48:26.840 Because they think that when the army shows up, the 1:48:26.960 --> 1:48:28.400 army is going to join them, and said, the army 1:48:28.439 --> 1:48:32.040 shows up and arrest them all. There's some people who 1:48:32.120 --> 1:48:34.840 try to fight the police. Uh they beat up a 1:48:34.880 --> 1:48:37.720 horse cop, which I think is funny because apparently this 1:48:37.840 --> 1:48:39.840 is just every single one of these Now someone beats 1:48:39.880 --> 1:48:43.960 up a horse cop. Um. But you know, by bye 1:48:44.000 --> 1:48:47.840 bye bye. By the end of Sunday, like it's all 1:48:47.920 --> 1:48:50.760 over the government forces. We take the plaza. People try 1:48:50.760 --> 1:48:53.400 to fight the police, but they lose really badly, and 1:48:53.600 --> 1:48:55.640 you know, okay, so obviously there's a reason why I 1:48:55.760 --> 1:48:58.479 read that versus strategy a second time. Was first line 1:48:58.520 --> 1:49:04.120 to start this, like, okay, the January six comparisons start 1:49:04.240 --> 1:49:08.560 fast and get harder, which is this happened literally on 1:49:08.680 --> 1:49:18.160 January eight, like two days after the American I mean 1:49:18.160 --> 1:49:20.439 they stowed the Capitol buildings. But this is something I 1:49:20.720 --> 1:49:23.200 think it's kind of important to understand. This is an 1:49:23.280 --> 1:49:27.439 even worse plan than the January six plan. So the 1:49:27.520 --> 1:49:30.839 January six plan, if people remember this, so crucially, January 1:49:31.000 --> 1:49:34.400 six happens while Trump is technically still in office, and 1:49:35.479 --> 1:49:37.200 what's going on when when they're showing me the capital 1:49:37.240 --> 1:49:39.679 in January six, is that Congress is trying to basically 1:49:39.760 --> 1:49:42.120 pass power to Joe Biden, right, like they're they're they're 1:49:42.160 --> 1:49:46.479 doing the vote to proof the ballot totals from the 1:49:47.479 --> 1:49:51.200 the electoral College. Blah blah blah blah blah. But okay, 1:49:51.240 --> 1:49:55.400 so this means that you know, when when when when when? 1:49:55.880 --> 1:49:59.599 On Jay's on January six, right, Congress was actually in session, 1:50:00.080 --> 1:50:02.080 so the people who were there actually had a thing 1:50:02.360 --> 1:50:05.320 they were trying to do to overturn their results, and 1:50:05.680 --> 1:50:07.439 there was like there were people they could have harmed. 1:50:07.520 --> 1:50:09.360 There was like they had they had like a goal 1:50:09.960 --> 1:50:13.400 kind of it was like seth Abramson. But on the 1:50:13.520 --> 1:50:16.800 other side, think it was like constitutional fantasy. Yeah, but 1:50:17.240 --> 1:50:20.519 lest yeah, but like I can't believe, you know, like 1:50:20.640 --> 1:50:22.799 this is the thing about about about what's happening Brazil's 1:50:22.840 --> 1:50:25.720 like I genuinely cannot believe that I am being made 1:50:25.800 --> 1:50:28.639 to defend the planning capacity of the January six crowd, 1:50:29.840 --> 1:50:33.200 like genuinely stunning. But the plan for the plan for 1:50:33.360 --> 1:50:38.560 January eighth in Brazil was even worse because Okay, the 1:50:39.320 --> 1:50:43.000 day they do this on right, Congress is not in session. 1:50:43.400 --> 1:50:46.679 The Supreme Court is on holiday and Lulu, the actual 1:50:46.720 --> 1:50:49.200 president of Brazil has a already taken power and b 1:50:49.479 --> 1:50:53.960 is ins apollo. Yeah, no money is there. Literally, they 1:50:54.000 --> 1:50:59.640 stored three abandoned buildings. There was nothing there could they 1:50:59.720 --> 1:51:02.439 could tried. It's in milligration was like three days before, right. 1:51:02.920 --> 1:51:05.200 It's funny. Louva talked about it in this in his 1:51:05.280 --> 1:51:07.880 speech where part of like in this speech after after 1:51:08.000 --> 1:51:10.599 this happens, is he he has this line about how 1:51:11.080 --> 1:51:13.120 like all of these people were already in Brazilia, but 1:51:13.160 --> 1:51:15.040 they were too cowardly to face the people who were 1:51:15.080 --> 1:51:18.439 there for the inauguration, so instead they waited for everyone 1:51:18.520 --> 1:51:23.519 to leave, which is true. It's really funny, And this 1:51:23.720 --> 1:51:25.880 is kind of what they always do, right, They always 1:51:25.960 --> 1:51:28.240 kind of take the easy thing and then grandstand like 1:51:28.520 --> 1:51:30.600 like it's a big brave thing that they've done. Like 1:51:31.640 --> 1:51:35.640 we see this constantly on the right. Yeah, and you know, 1:51:35.760 --> 1:51:37.680 I like, I I think I think it's reasonable to 1:51:37.680 --> 1:51:40.400 ask what were they actually trying to do? Um? And 1:51:40.439 --> 1:51:44.559 I'm I'm gonna read from the Washington Post. The Washington 1:51:44.560 --> 1:51:47.479 Post is talking about um some of the previous attempts 1:51:47.479 --> 1:51:51.719 to do the same thing. Quote one radicalized Bilsonarista named 1:51:51.800 --> 1:51:57.000 George Washington Day Olivaria was what, Yeah, all of the 1:51:57.080 --> 1:52:00.560 people involved with this are named like George Washington Olivaria. 1:52:00.720 --> 1:52:06.439 It's incredible. Do wow did they did they change their 1:52:06.520 --> 1:52:09.000 names or is the whole thing just being a lame 1:52:09.120 --> 1:52:12.760 part of American conservatives. Well, I mean that's that is like, 1:52:14.560 --> 1:52:19.320 like it really like there is a lot of truth 1:52:19.400 --> 1:52:23.400 to the analysis that like, like Brazilian fascist culture is 1:52:23.520 --> 1:52:27.599 just like the fourth time of Facebook meme isn't passed around, 1:52:27.640 --> 1:52:30.320 but this time on what'sapp Like it's it's some it's 1:52:31.320 --> 1:52:35.360 it's somehow more cringe than than the American stuff. Like 1:52:35.520 --> 1:52:39.200 it's port of incredible. But here he was, okay, he was, Yeah, 1:52:39.400 --> 1:52:43.639 this guy named George Washington Lavaria was arrested and accused 1:52:43.640 --> 1:52:46.639 of planting a bomb beneath a bus at the Brazilia airport. 1:52:47.240 --> 1:52:49.600 In a statement to police, he said he wanted to 1:52:49.760 --> 1:52:53.880 quote begin chaos that would lead to military intervention. So 1:52:54.320 --> 1:52:56.680 she's trying to do the strategy of tension, right, which 1:52:56.720 --> 1:52:59.280 is which is this thing from Italy? Where? Okay, so 1:52:59.400 --> 1:53:01.519 you you you have the government running a bunch of 1:53:01.600 --> 1:53:05.519 sort of like no, I mean, I don't know, calling 1:53:05.560 --> 1:53:07.800 them fake fascist groups is technically correct, but you have that, 1:53:07.880 --> 1:53:10.240 you have them running a bunch of terrorist groups and 1:53:10.560 --> 1:53:12.639 you know, okay, so they they this is this happening 1:53:12.680 --> 1:53:15.120 in like the sixty seventies and yeah, I guess a 1:53:15.120 --> 1:53:16.840 little bit into the eighties. Is that they're they're doing 1:53:16.880 --> 1:53:18.479 all these bombings and stuff, and they're doing all these 1:53:18.560 --> 1:53:20.920 terrorist attacks and the goal is to get people to 1:53:21.080 --> 1:53:24.120 like sort of trust the government and like allow like 1:53:24.200 --> 1:53:26.439 sort of further state of military intervention. But the thing 1:53:26.479 --> 1:53:29.519 about that was that crucially the strategy of tension was 1:53:29.560 --> 1:53:32.200 a strategy that was done by the government. It doesn't 1:53:32.240 --> 1:53:34.920 really work if you're not the government and you are, 1:53:35.000 --> 1:53:37.320 in fact that people causing the chaos, and where do 1:53:37.400 --> 1:53:40.120 you get to military to sort of join you. So 1:53:41.160 --> 1:53:43.840 this is a crucial problem for Brazilian fascism because as 1:53:43.960 --> 1:53:45.800 much as the sort of the modern fascist movement is 1:53:45.840 --> 1:53:48.599 a cultiple scenario, it's really a cult of the military. 1:53:48.960 --> 1:53:51.200 Bulsonaro is sort of just the person who embodies the 1:53:51.280 --> 1:53:55.000 sort of desire the fascist masses from military rule. But 1:53:55.600 --> 1:53:57.960 this means that if the military just refused to do 1:53:58.040 --> 1:54:01.479 a coup, they have no idea what to do. Yeah, 1:54:01.560 --> 1:54:04.040 but they could deploy Baltonara himself. Have you seen that 1:54:04.160 --> 1:54:06.040 video of him trying to do press ups to prove 1:54:06.120 --> 1:54:13.360 that he's kind of super solidate. Don't worry, you know, 1:54:13.520 --> 1:54:15.400 but this is this is sort of this is a 1:54:15.479 --> 1:54:19.080 real issue for them. And Okay, so if I am 1:54:19.200 --> 1:54:22.000 pretty confident that if the military had actually decided to 1:54:22.040 --> 1:54:23.920 do a coup, this would have worked, like and I 1:54:23.960 --> 1:54:27.479 think they would have pretty trivially just like smashed sort 1:54:27.479 --> 1:54:28.880 of the rest of the forces of the state. Lulu 1:54:28.920 --> 1:54:32.000 would be in prison. But and this is the thing 1:54:32.040 --> 1:54:33.800 that's been the key to everything that's been going on 1:54:33.880 --> 1:54:36.320 in Resolve from the beginning. The army does not have 1:54:36.560 --> 1:54:39.520 the green light from Washington to do a coup because 1:54:39.680 --> 1:54:45.560 once again Biden just absolutely hates Baillsonaro, which is like, yeah, 1:54:45.960 --> 1:54:47.880 you know this this this is this is a coup 1:54:47.960 --> 1:54:50.320 that was planned from Orlando and not Langley. Now we're 1:54:50.360 --> 1:54:53.960 on like number four in the last few years that 1:54:54.120 --> 1:54:57.800 was planned from Florida, and notably three of the four 1:54:57.840 --> 1:55:00.720 of them have failed. And this is on the Carstralia 1:55:03.360 --> 1:55:05.520 that was much fun. Yeah, well, I mean, I like 1:55:05.680 --> 1:55:08.080 to be fair, this is a better plant coup attempt 1:55:08.080 --> 1:55:12.440 than the venezuela one that's not hot. That's an extremely bar. Yeah, 1:55:12.680 --> 1:55:14.520 the kind of bar that you can get over by tripping. 1:55:15.000 --> 1:55:18.240 But you know, we're sold the very early process of 1:55:18.280 --> 1:55:20.720 figuring out how exactly who was involved in this and 1:55:20.840 --> 1:55:23.880 that like to what extent everyone was coordinating with each 1:55:23.880 --> 1:55:26.880 other and like you know, i'm actual extent like literally 1:55:26.960 --> 1:55:29.360 governors were involved seen to have been involved in this, 1:55:29.440 --> 1:55:32.920 but we don't. We don't exactly know yet. Um. What 1:55:33.080 --> 1:55:34.960 we do know in terms of it's being planned from 1:55:35.040 --> 1:55:38.520 Orlando is that Bolsonaro for literally years has been saying 1:55:38.560 --> 1:55:41.680 ship like quote, the patience of the people has run out. 1:55:42.360 --> 1:55:44.840 I want to tell those who will make me unelectable 1:55:44.920 --> 1:55:47.880 in Brazil, only God removes me from power. There are 1:55:47.960 --> 1:55:51.280 three options for me jail, death, or victory. And I'm 1:55:51.360 --> 1:55:55.160 telling the scandal rules. I will never be imprisoned, evening 1:55:55.440 --> 1:55:57.560 literally years and years and years just saying sing like that, 1:55:57.720 --> 1:56:01.000 like just over and over and over again. And you know, Okay, 1:56:01.240 --> 1:56:05.520 So the other thing that we know right now and 1:56:05.720 --> 1:56:09.160 this this this is being recorded on what day is 1:56:09.160 --> 1:56:11.640 it is the ninth, Yeah, but it's being recorded on 1:56:11.720 --> 1:56:14.040 Monday to night. So this is this is the next day. Uh. 1:56:14.400 --> 1:56:16.280 If by the time this goes out there's more information, 1:56:16.320 --> 1:56:18.160 there will be more information is going on what we 1:56:18.240 --> 1:56:20.080 have right now. One of the things that we know 1:56:20.480 --> 1:56:23.240 is that the guy who was in charge of security 1:56:23.320 --> 1:56:26.560 for the Federal District, which is like the Federal District 1:56:26.640 --> 1:56:28.440 is basically like what if washing d C Was a state, 1:56:29.560 --> 1:56:31.600 but like a tiny one. So the guy who was 1:56:31.600 --> 1:56:35.200 in charge of security for that, uh, was a Bulsonaro 1:56:35.240 --> 1:56:39.880 supporter who just so happened to be on vacation in Orlando, 1:56:40.600 --> 1:56:43.120 where Bulsonaro was staying with an mm A fighter whose 1:56:43.160 --> 1:56:47.040 mansion has a Minion Stein room. Uh, he's just coincidentally 1:56:47.320 --> 1:56:51.680 on afication in Orlando with Paulsonara. Well this is happening, 1:56:53.280 --> 1:56:56.160 so you know, Okay, the Brazilian state seems to be 1:56:56.240 --> 1:56:58.920 being a lot faster to sort of crack down on 1:56:58.960 --> 1:57:02.120 everything that's happening than the American state was. Um that 1:57:02.160 --> 1:57:05.360 the guys who was in charge of security, I who 1:57:05.440 --> 1:57:07.839 was in who's in Orlando? That the Brazilian federal defender 1:57:07.960 --> 1:57:11.000 has already asked the Supreme Court to arrest him. Um. 1:57:11.480 --> 1:57:14.400 A Supreme Court justice like deposed the governor of the 1:57:14.480 --> 1:57:19.720 Federal District for allowing this to happen. So, yeah, it's wild. 1:57:20.240 --> 1:57:23.400 The Brazilian Minister of Justice as they've already entedified people 1:57:23.440 --> 1:57:25.839 in ten states who helped plan or fund the operation. 1:57:26.320 --> 1:57:29.560 They've arrested like well, the Totalsome yesterday said that they 1:57:29.720 --> 1:57:32.200 arrested four hundred people. I saw somewhere that arrested twelve. 1:57:32.560 --> 1:57:34.920 I don't know about that. I could be wrong, but yeah, 1:57:34.920 --> 1:57:38.160 there was at least four hundred of people. Um, there's 1:57:38.160 --> 1:57:39.680 a huge like there's a huge track down on people 1:57:39.760 --> 1:57:44.320 involved in this Lula. It's much better than the January 1:57:44.400 --> 1:57:48.000 six response, and like, like part part of what's happening 1:57:48.120 --> 1:57:52.760 right is like like Lula literally like basically declared a 1:57:52.800 --> 1:57:56.480 state of emergency in the federal zone and like God 1:57:56.600 --> 1:57:59.880 basically like I guess you called, like he basically sent 1:58:00.040 --> 1:58:02.400 in the FEDS and like has like his people now 1:58:02.480 --> 1:58:06.120 have direct control over security in the capital because because 1:58:06.200 --> 1:58:09.120 because the police there were so unreliable and you know, 1:58:09.240 --> 1:58:12.200 and like he's been yeah, theresil states moving very very 1:58:12.280 --> 1:58:17.400 fast to sort of stuff better than the US charge 1:58:17.440 --> 1:58:20.600 and that probably yeah, and and also like Lula, Lula, 1:58:20.840 --> 1:58:23.720 unlike Biden, Lula, Lula has like like literally like three 1:58:23.800 --> 1:58:26.840 hours like as this was happening, he's making a speech 1:58:26.880 --> 1:58:29.560 about like that him vowing to go after everyone who's 1:58:29.560 --> 1:58:35.520 involved in this, including Bullsonaro and Um. A Brazilian member 1:58:35.520 --> 1:58:38.200 of Congress has formally asked to Foreign Ministry to extradite 1:58:38.200 --> 1:58:43.480 Bulsonaro to the US. Who knows what's going to happen there, Uh, 1:58:43.600 --> 1:58:45.280 there have been there has actually there's been like a 1:58:45.360 --> 1:58:49.400 surprising amount of sort of support for that in the US. 1:58:50.680 --> 1:58:52.400 And you know, I mean that's everything that's been kind 1:58:52.400 --> 1:58:54.200 of interesting for this, like before we take the ad break, 1:58:54.280 --> 1:58:58.160 is that like he's gotten Lula is getting support from 1:58:58.240 --> 1:59:02.920 like everyone, like this is this is one of the 1:59:03.080 --> 1:59:07.640 rare we we we we have the great capitalist Triumvirate 1:59:07.880 --> 1:59:12.920 of Vladimir Putin, Joe Biden and and Macron have all 1:59:13.080 --> 1:59:17.640 said that they're backing him, which is wild real international 1:59:17.720 --> 1:59:21.000 Lincoln Project vibes. Yeah, it's I mean that that that 1:59:21.200 --> 1:59:26.360 that that that is. I guess like Hulula is drabroad extent, right, 1:59:26.560 --> 1:59:28.440 Like you know, if you go back to a Lula episodes, 1:59:28.560 --> 1:59:30.720 like he was close with the Bush administration but also 1:59:31.480 --> 1:59:34.840 like close with the World Social Forum people. So he's 1:59:34.920 --> 1:59:37.160 he's always kind of like been the guy who straddles 1:59:37.200 --> 1:59:42.080 a divide between like, yeah, he's not and he's the 1:59:42.080 --> 1:59:43.600 guy he straddles a divide between the sort of like 1:59:43.680 --> 1:59:53.240 international imperialists and what was the left. Yeah, yeah, So 1:59:53.400 --> 1:59:55.520 all right, we're we're gonna we're we're gonna go to ads, 1:59:55.520 --> 1:59:57.080 and then when we come back, we're gonna talk more 1:59:57.200 --> 2:00:02.240 about how everything is actually sort of gone. All right, 2:00:02.280 --> 2:00:04.880 we're back. So one of the things I think is 2:00:04.960 --> 2:00:06.800 very interesting about this whole thing is that for all 2:00:06.840 --> 2:00:09.640 of the sort of planning and organizational capacity that's gone 2:00:09.680 --> 2:00:13.360 into building the sort of like transnational fascist movement, the 2:00:13.440 --> 2:00:15.520 American right like that that the American Party has been 2:00:15.560 --> 2:00:19.160 setting up, uh, the American Right has just actively been 2:00:19.200 --> 2:00:24.440 making their allies worse here like their ideas. It's it's 2:00:24.440 --> 2:00:26.160 sort of incredible, I mean, And this is something I 2:00:26.200 --> 2:00:28.640 think that that's genuinely very scary about the Brazilian right 2:00:28.760 --> 2:00:32.680 is that their regular combination of tactics are really effective. 2:00:33.240 --> 2:00:35.160 Um that you know that they've been able to successfully 2:00:35.200 --> 2:00:38.440 wild this combination of sort of electoralism of lawfare sort 2:00:38.480 --> 2:00:40.640 of like using the legal system against their political enemies 2:00:41.280 --> 2:00:44.160 of the road blockades, mass marches and you know, just 2:00:44.200 --> 2:00:46.680 straight up paramilitary death squads of various kinds. You know, 2:00:46.760 --> 2:00:48.480 you have you have your sort of urban desk squads, 2:00:48.560 --> 2:00:52.480 you have these like genocidal logger death squads, and that's 2:00:52.520 --> 2:00:56.120 been very effective. And you know, Okay, so like they 2:00:56.480 --> 2:00:59.320 lost this one election, but you know, their their position 2:00:59.360 --> 2:01:01.840 inside resil in politics is still really strong. They control 2:01:01.880 --> 2:01:06.080 a bunch of like governorships, they like Bolsonoo's party and 2:01:06.200 --> 2:01:10.320 his coalition like control control the Brazilian parliament. Okay, so 2:01:10.640 --> 2:01:13.480 you know, like they're in a very strong position. But 2:01:13.600 --> 2:01:17.200 then they talked to the Americans and they imputed January 2:01:17.320 --> 2:01:21.200 six and stormed the capital, and at least right now, 2:01:21.280 --> 2:01:24.040 it looks like it's going really badly for them. Like 2:01:24.200 --> 2:01:26.120 even even the sort of like right wing Ali Great 2:01:26.160 --> 2:01:30.920 Process turned on them. Globo, which is like it's Brazil's 2:01:30.920 --> 2:01:34.320 biggest newspaper, well is the biggest new paper. It could 2:01:34.320 --> 2:01:36.520 be second biggest, I'm pretty sure's the biggest. It's funded 2:01:36.560 --> 2:01:40.280 by like right wing ship at billionaires um. But you know, 2:01:40.520 --> 2:01:44.040 their entire front page right now is just them yelling 2:01:44.080 --> 2:01:46.840 about the coup and like gleefully reporting them like like 2:01:47.120 --> 2:01:49.440 that they had a frit page thing for an individual 2:01:49.600 --> 2:01:52.120 sociology professor who stepped off a bus coming back from 2:01:52.160 --> 2:01:54.840 Brazilian immediately got arrested. Like this is this is the 2:01:54.920 --> 2:01:57.200 kind of sort of jubilation that it's really it's kind 2:01:57.200 --> 2:01:59.880 of it's kind of amazing too, because like kind of 2:02:00.680 --> 2:02:05.640 sociologist is also a bosonarist insurrection rate. Yeah, well okay, 2:02:05.760 --> 2:02:07.640 I feel like that. If you're a sociologist, there were 2:02:07.680 --> 2:02:10.960 exactly two you have. You have three paths. One has 2:02:11.000 --> 2:02:14.120 you become a cop? Two is you is you do 2:02:14.240 --> 2:02:16.680 the Italian thing and you become the Red Brigades. Yeah, 2:02:17.200 --> 2:02:19.760 that was that. That was That was Italy's first sociology department, 2:02:19.800 --> 2:02:21.680 by the way, I turned out the Red Brigades or 2:02:21.760 --> 2:02:25.680 three you become a Nazi. Those are your three options. Yeah, 2:02:25.720 --> 2:02:30.080 there are. Yeah. I've never been unfortunate enough to run 2:02:30.120 --> 2:02:32.800 into any of the chad sociologies, to be very right, 2:02:32.840 --> 2:02:36.400 they are there. Yeah, we we we stayed away from them. 2:02:36.400 --> 2:02:40.760 In the anthro department, we're like nope, no, Yeah, I've 2:02:40.800 --> 2:02:43.760 taught in sociology before and you definitely do get a 2:02:43.800 --> 2:02:45.160 lot of students who are there to be a cop. 2:02:45.240 --> 2:02:48.880 I've forgotten about that. Yeah, it sucks. I will say 2:02:49.560 --> 2:02:52.360 Brazil has had at least one. I feel like they've 2:02:52.400 --> 2:02:56.879 had at least a couple of sociologist presidents. For Fernando 2:02:56.920 --> 2:02:59.720 Henrique Cardoso was what yeah, what was the sociologist was 2:02:59.720 --> 2:03:03.360 presid it for a while and then he got replaced 2:03:03.400 --> 2:03:05.920 by Lula Um. This is this has been This has 2:03:05.960 --> 2:03:08.800 been a tangent about what happens when you put sociology 2:03:09.320 --> 2:03:14.240 professor's lefted out of their cages. Uh so okay, And 2:03:14.440 --> 2:03:16.120 you know, I would say this is going back to 2:03:16.160 --> 2:03:17.840 global for a second, Like some of the stuff that 2:03:17.840 --> 2:03:21.080 they're saying is not exactly true. Like they're they're they're 2:03:21.120 --> 2:03:23.080 trying to sort of make a separation between the like 2:03:23.160 --> 2:03:26.320 extremist Wilsonario eastas and then like the people in Parliament, 2:03:26.480 --> 2:03:29.320 and it's like okay, so like yeah, they have this 2:03:29.360 --> 2:03:31.400 whole thing about these are streamists with no support in 2:03:31.440 --> 2:03:34.120 Parliament and it's like okay, buddy, Like there are literally 2:03:34.240 --> 2:03:39.880 people like in Congress who are in Congress because they 2:03:39.960 --> 2:03:43.360 were elected because they filmed themselves doing right wing trucker borodblocks, 2:03:43.640 --> 2:03:46.520 Like you know, okay, like well if one of these 2:03:46.560 --> 2:03:49.040 other things, one of the other stories, was them talking, 2:03:49.160 --> 2:03:53.480 was them talking about I Brazilian politicians frantically deleting the 2:03:53.560 --> 2:03:58.960 social media posts in support of the protests. So okay, 2:03:59.160 --> 2:04:03.120 you know it is it is actually true that like 2:04:03.240 --> 2:04:05.080 a lot of like even both people in both to 2:04:05.080 --> 2:04:10.440 know his own party like denounced it. But you know, yeah, 2:04:10.480 --> 2:04:12.120 I mean we saw the same ship, right, and then 2:04:12.160 --> 2:04:14.520 they'll gradually reimagine it over the next two or three 2:04:14.600 --> 2:04:19.240 years to where like that they're they're not denounced again. Well, well, 2:04:19.320 --> 2:04:22.120 we'll see what happens, because there is also a chance 2:04:22.160 --> 2:04:27.320 here that like everyone who was even intitentially like everyone 2:04:27.480 --> 2:04:32.240 was like, we'll back out of this. I'm not a 2:04:32.280 --> 2:04:34.600 big pro prison guy, but the video of them arriving 2:04:34.640 --> 2:04:37.360 in a coach at the jail was pretty immediate. That 2:04:37.520 --> 2:04:45.160 was pretty funny. Yeah, So okay, so right now it 2:04:45.280 --> 2:04:47.240 looks like this has gone pretty badly for them. Again, 2:04:47.280 --> 2:04:49.600 this is this is this is being recorded one day 2:04:49.720 --> 2:04:51.720 after it happens. So I don't know if if the 2:04:51.840 --> 2:04:54.600 army has actually done the coup tomorrow. It's not my fault, 2:04:54.640 --> 2:04:58.920 it wasn't out yet. But you know, I think we 2:04:58.960 --> 2:05:01.120 should we should ask shoud take a step back and 2:05:01.240 --> 2:05:04.920 ask why is this happening, And I think we should 2:05:04.920 --> 2:05:07.560 we should ask why did this happen in the same 2:05:08.280 --> 2:05:12.240 way in both the US em Brazil and why did 2:05:12.320 --> 2:05:15.720 it not work? And the answer to this is that 2:05:15.840 --> 2:05:18.640 the capital is a trap. What what what the American 2:05:18.680 --> 2:05:21.840 and Brazilian right has ran into, sort of ironically, is 2:05:21.960 --> 2:05:26.040 the crisis of the century revolutionary movement. So to explain 2:05:26.120 --> 2:05:27.600 what I mean here, I'm gonna I'm gonna read a 2:05:27.640 --> 2:05:29.680 bit of to our Friends, which is a work produced 2:05:29.720 --> 2:05:33.200 in late by the Invisible Committee, which is the pen 2:05:33.320 --> 2:05:35.440 name of some French anarchists who are most famous of 2:05:35.520 --> 2:05:38.920 writing The Coming Insurrection. Um. I'm not normally a huge 2:05:38.920 --> 2:05:41.240 fan of their work, but they got they got one 2:05:41.400 --> 2:05:46.680 thing very very right, and that's this occupation of the 2:05:46.760 --> 2:05:50.080 Kaspa and Tunis, and of the Stagma Square and Athens, 2:05:50.240 --> 2:05:52.800 siege of Westminster and London during the student movement of 2:05:52.800 --> 2:05:56.120 two thousand and eleven, encirclement of the Parliament in Madrid 2:05:56.240 --> 2:06:00.600 and September twelve, or in Barcelona on June five, thousand eleven, 2:06:01.200 --> 2:06:04.360 riots all around the Chamber of Deputies in Rome, December 2:06:04.440 --> 2:06:09.360 four attempt on October fifteenth, thousand eleven, in Lisbon to 2:06:09.440 --> 2:06:12.680 invade the Assembly at the REPUBLICA birding of the Bosnian 2:06:12.720 --> 2:06:18.320 presidential residents in February. The places of institutional power exert 2:06:18.360 --> 2:06:22.280 in magnetic attraction on revolutionaries. But when the insurgents managed 2:06:22.280 --> 2:06:26.840 to penetrate parliaments, presidential palaces, and other headquarters of institutions, 2:06:27.280 --> 2:06:30.560 as in Ukraine, in Libya, or in Wisconsin, it's only 2:06:30.640 --> 2:06:34.160 to discover empty places that is empty of power and 2:06:34.240 --> 2:06:38.040 furnished without any taste. It's not to prevent the people 2:06:38.600 --> 2:06:41.800 from taking power that they are so fiercely kept from 2:06:41.800 --> 2:06:45.000 invading such places, but to prevent them from realizing that 2:06:45.080 --> 2:06:48.480 power no longer resides in the institutions. There are only 2:06:48.560 --> 2:06:53.880 deserted temples there, decommissioned fortresses, nothing but stage sets, real 2:06:54.000 --> 2:06:58.040 traps revolutionaries. The popular impulse to rush onto the stage 2:06:58.120 --> 2:06:59.880 to find out what is happening in the wings is 2:07:00.000 --> 2:07:03.320 down to be disappointed. If they got inside, even the 2:07:03.400 --> 2:07:06.320 most ferbrent conspiracy freaks would find nothing ur cane there. 2:07:06.920 --> 2:07:09.600 The truth is that power is simply no longer that 2:07:09.720 --> 2:07:14.960 theatrical reality to which maternity accustomed us. Yeah, and gets 2:07:15.760 --> 2:07:19.160 very prescient and like, and it's we're raised on these 2:07:19.200 --> 2:07:21.000 myths right, both on the left and right, Like on 2:07:21.080 --> 2:07:22.640 the on the right, like there are these myths of 2:07:23.040 --> 2:07:25.520 these American institutions which took great and unique and shining 2:07:25.560 --> 2:07:27.800 cities on the hill and on the left, like we're 2:07:27.880 --> 2:07:30.680 raised with the storming of the Bastille and stuff like that. 2:07:30.760 --> 2:07:33.440 As he's the Winter Palace, right, these moments have kind 2:07:33.480 --> 2:07:38.120 of revolutionary change. But yeah, and I want to I 2:07:38.320 --> 2:07:40.120 want to specifically, I want to take a second talk 2:07:40.120 --> 2:07:42.480 about the Winter Palace because this is actually something that 2:07:42.840 --> 2:07:45.320 I think sort of worryingly this is uh Nick what 2:07:45.520 --> 2:07:47.160 is actually talked about this in one of his podcasts, 2:07:47.160 --> 2:07:49.280 which is that like and he's right about this, which 2:07:49.320 --> 2:07:51.640 is that like the like there there there are like 2:07:51.760 --> 2:07:53.680 you can't actually just store with Winter Palace and take 2:07:53.720 --> 2:07:56.000 power right, doesn't work anymore. And but but but I 2:07:56.040 --> 2:07:59.600 think it's actually worth like taking like two minutes to 2:08:00.040 --> 2:08:02.960 layout why that's true. And it's because the Winter Palace 2:08:03.720 --> 2:08:05.760 was like a once in like a like like a 2:08:05.880 --> 2:08:08.520 once in a century historical moment, and it only worked 2:08:08.760 --> 2:08:10.640 because and this is something that I think people forget. 2:08:11.000 --> 2:08:12.720 The storming of the Winter Palace was not the thing 2:08:12.760 --> 2:08:14.760 that overthrew the Czar that was later. That was that 2:08:14.800 --> 2:08:17.080 was the February Revolution. That is a completely given revolution, 2:08:17.440 --> 2:08:19.320 the Stormy of the Winter Palace. And the reason why 2:08:19.400 --> 2:08:21.800 that worked was that the government that that that the 2:08:21.840 --> 2:08:24.520 Polsheviks were overthrowing was Kerensky's government, which is just like 2:08:24.760 --> 2:08:29.120 really dipshit like interim interim governments that was only supposed 2:08:29.120 --> 2:08:30.760 to be their own town election happened and had like 2:08:31.240 --> 2:08:34.200 the most fig leaf legitimacy of any government ever. Everyone 2:08:34.320 --> 2:08:36.720 hated them, they had no supporters with but and any 2:08:36.720 --> 2:08:38.920 of this is why it worked, right because when they 2:08:39.040 --> 2:08:41.160 had no power at all, and so when the bull 2:08:41.160 --> 2:08:43.400 shwiks rolled in on them, everyone else just stayed home. 2:08:44.120 --> 2:08:46.880 And that is not going to work in any modern 2:08:46.960 --> 2:08:50.400 context unless like I don't know, you're like you're you 2:08:50.600 --> 2:08:52.880 two were also like two years in a revolution and 2:08:53.000 --> 2:08:56.560 there's like three years into a war. Yeah, there's like 2:08:56.600 --> 2:08:58.800 an incredibly fig leave government. Maybe you can pull this off, 2:08:58.880 --> 2:09:00.840 but like that that that that is not that is 2:09:00.920 --> 2:09:04.720 a absolutely terrible, god awful model for attempting to seize 2:09:05.280 --> 2:09:07.960 like any kind of power or bring down any governments. 2:09:08.520 --> 2:09:10.880 But you know, it's it's become because that because that 2:09:10.960 --> 2:09:13.880 became the sort of like mythology of of the Soviet 2:09:13.960 --> 2:09:16.600 Union that you know, that was sort of burned, the 2:09:16.640 --> 2:09:18.920 sort of false image of that was burned into the 2:09:18.960 --> 2:09:22.240 certain memory of of collective memory of the left to 2:09:22.280 --> 2:09:24.440 the point where, like, most people don't even remember that 2:09:24.560 --> 2:09:28.440 Kerensky was also technically a socialist and that like and 2:09:28.520 --> 2:09:32.160 that that's how revolution was a socialist. Like a group 2:09:32.200 --> 2:09:34.520 of socialists overthrowing another group of socialists, and both of 2:09:34.560 --> 2:09:38.160 them have a very tenuous sort of like it's tenuous 2:09:38.200 --> 2:09:41.480 and whether they're either of them are socialists at all? Yeah, 2:09:41.520 --> 2:09:43.080 and then going on to take power and kill a 2:09:43.120 --> 2:09:45.600 bunt too bad of the socialists. Yeah, yeah, okay, so 2:09:46.200 --> 2:09:48.360 that aside, you know, this this crisis I was talking about, 2:09:48.360 --> 2:09:49.640 like this is the reason why we're here in the 2:09:49.720 --> 2:09:52.240 first place. Right, it's in large part because of the 2:09:52.320 --> 2:09:55.480 failure to overcome the movement of power out of the 2:09:55.520 --> 2:09:58.040 sort of palace where people expected to be that in 2:09:58.080 --> 2:10:00.200 the two thousand eleven revolutions failed like that that that 2:10:00.320 --> 2:10:03.520 that's why we're here in hell world because people people 2:10:03.600 --> 2:10:06.800 were sort of unable to figure out a way to 2:10:07.040 --> 2:10:09.720 actually bring down our government instead of sort of being 2:10:09.840 --> 2:10:14.440 like drawn magnetically into these traps. But those problems sort 2:10:14.440 --> 2:10:17.160 of like magnetic draw the Capitol building to will be revolutionaries. 2:10:17.520 --> 2:10:19.240 This is just as much a problem to the right 2:10:19.320 --> 2:10:22.440 as it is the left. And for right now, this 2:10:22.560 --> 2:10:26.120 has saved us. It's caused the Brazilian right to abandon 2:10:26.240 --> 2:10:29.680 things they were doing that actually, like are genuinely terrifying 2:10:29.720 --> 2:10:32.839 and you know, could could have been and have been effective. 2:10:33.360 --> 2:10:35.680 Like for example, one of one of the cleanup operations 2:10:35.720 --> 2:10:39.080 that was happening today was the Brazilian army cleared a 2:10:39.120 --> 2:10:40.960 bunch of these people who were trying to do blockades 2:10:40.960 --> 2:10:45.120 to state oil facilities, and you know that actually could 2:10:45.160 --> 2:10:49.520 have worked, right like that, Yeah, and you know, and 2:10:49.640 --> 2:10:51.520 and yeah, we've talked about this before and then the 2:10:51.560 --> 2:10:53.120 other and the other sort of bose in our episodes. 2:10:53.280 --> 2:10:55.280 But like that, those kind of like trucker blockade things, 2:10:55.320 --> 2:10:59.320 blocking highways, blockades like those are tactics that the Brazilian 2:10:59.440 --> 2:11:04.080 rights sort of natively uses. And there's a world where 2:11:04.120 --> 2:11:06.240 the Brazilian fascist sticks to their instincts and instead of 2:11:06.320 --> 2:11:08.240 doing this doomed attempt to s from the capital, they 2:11:08.280 --> 2:11:10.920 put these same numbers of people into trucks with roadblocks 2:11:10.960 --> 2:11:12.560 and burning tires and they try to shut down their 2:11:12.560 --> 2:11:16.080 Brazilian economy. You know, in essence, there's a world where 2:11:16.120 --> 2:11:20.640 instead of doing it October an impossible like January sixth revolution, 2:11:21.320 --> 2:11:24.760 where they do an invisible committee one where they realize 2:11:24.800 --> 2:11:27.240 the powers and logistics and attempting to shut shut down 2:11:27.280 --> 2:11:28.880 its flow is how you do a revolution. And that 2:11:29.000 --> 2:11:31.640 is a world that is a lot scarier than the 2:11:31.720 --> 2:11:34.760 one that we're in. But and you know, I think 2:11:34.840 --> 2:11:37.480 we'll see how this ultimate plays out. But I actually 2:11:37.520 --> 2:11:39.640 think the fact that this was planned for Orlando is 2:11:40.960 --> 2:11:43.400 like you know, with the help of sort of the 2:11:43.480 --> 2:11:46.520 usual American generay seth crowd, I think this actually really 2:11:46.800 --> 2:11:52.800 really fucked them, like it it really deeply hurt sort 2:11:52.800 --> 2:11:58.160 of the Brazilian fascist provement, which is good. Um It 2:11:58.200 --> 2:12:00.400 always like when I see the I think about this 2:12:00.520 --> 2:12:03.960 recently with like um me and mar and everything else, 2:12:04.040 --> 2:12:06.640 Like I always come back like marcusa where he talks 2:12:06.680 --> 2:12:09.320 about the false choice of masters by slaves and like 2:12:09.480 --> 2:12:12.920 how the solution is not this like one big sort 2:12:12.960 --> 2:12:16.880 of like like big I didn't want to call it, 2:12:17.000 --> 2:12:20.040 like symbolic kind of active violence, but like the great 2:12:20.080 --> 2:12:23.160 refusal to participate in these things, which is something that 2:12:23.240 --> 2:12:24.880 lots of people have power to do as opposed to 2:12:25.520 --> 2:12:27.880 doing this stupid ship which centralizes them in one place 2:12:27.920 --> 2:12:32.120 to get some all arrested. Well, I mean it's also 2:12:32.280 --> 2:12:33.920 likes there's another sort of part of this, which is 2:12:33.960 --> 2:12:38.000 that like both in the US and in Brazil, the 2:12:38.120 --> 2:12:40.680 right is not very good at fighting the cops. Like 2:12:41.200 --> 2:12:44.280 they got that one horse cup pretty good. There's a 2:12:44.360 --> 2:12:46.040 couple that like don't get a cold people, but like 2:12:46.400 --> 2:12:48.680 they're only they only do well when they're really like 2:12:48.720 --> 2:12:51.480 when they outnumber the cops like a hundred or one. Yeah, 2:12:51.800 --> 2:12:54.120 that is different in Europe. That is a thing that 2:12:54.280 --> 2:12:57.360 like like if you look at Whereasov comes from, Asov 2:12:57.440 --> 2:12:59.960 comes from right wing football hooligans who like the front 2:13:00.080 --> 2:13:03.080 line in the minda and beat the ship into the cops. Yeah. 2:13:03.240 --> 2:13:04.960 But but but in the in the US, it's like, 2:13:06.440 --> 2:13:11.400 I don't know, everyone's just like this doesn't fight the 2:13:11.640 --> 2:13:15.000 busy shooting people. Yeah, but there isn't that history of 2:13:15.120 --> 2:13:17.360 like like that's not I'm not don't just want to 2:13:17.400 --> 2:13:19.280 pick on like where I come from, but like like 2:13:20.080 --> 2:13:23.280 crowd violence, like like football hood against like that that 2:13:23.640 --> 2:13:26.160 doesn't exist in a meaningful sense in the US, it's 2:13:26.200 --> 2:13:29.560 not as commonplace, and there isn't that like institutional memory 2:13:29.640 --> 2:13:34.240 of fighting riot police that exists all over Europe. Yeah, well, 2:13:34.280 --> 2:13:37.240 I think I think the thing is that, like, okay, 2:13:37.760 --> 2:13:40.120 American sports fans do fight the cops, but they only 2:13:40.160 --> 2:13:45.080 do it once a year, if that like the super Bowl. Yeah, well, 2:13:45.200 --> 2:13:47.160 you know, they'll do with the NHL, but things like 2:13:47.440 --> 2:13:50.320 it's only it's only like maybe like three cities a 2:13:50.440 --> 2:13:53.640 year that do it, right, Yeah, and everyone series too. 2:13:53.680 --> 2:13:55.640 It's harder because the World Series has this whole sort 2:13:55.680 --> 2:13:57.840 of like like that they have the parade, they have 2:13:57.920 --> 2:13:59.840 this whole stage managing to people, they get people stop 2:13:59.880 --> 2:14:02.920 from writing. So really there's only like two or three 2:14:03.000 --> 2:14:05.560 events per year where you can get riots, whereas like 2:14:05.680 --> 2:14:10.200 in Europe, any time, yeah, any given Saturday, he could 2:14:10.240 --> 2:14:13.320 be throwing down with a cop on a horse. But 2:14:13.480 --> 2:14:16.040 like it's outside of it. It's gone long beyond that. 2:14:16.200 --> 2:14:19.000 Like I remember in like just before this two thousand 2:14:19.000 --> 2:14:22.240 eleven moment, like the two the earlier two thousands antig 2:14:22.360 --> 2:14:26.200 eight movement, like the institutional knowledge on how to deal 2:14:26.320 --> 2:14:29.120 with large volumes of police and still get your point across, 2:14:29.640 --> 2:14:32.040 just as we saw in twenty did not exist here 2:14:32.040 --> 2:14:34.080 and had to be imported from Hong Kong and other places, 2:14:34.760 --> 2:14:40.000 badly imported in Yeah, but infographic from Hong Kong. Yeah, 2:14:41.080 --> 2:14:43.600 So okay. Having said all of this, this is not 2:14:43.760 --> 2:14:47.560 to say that everything is fine. Um, it's not. Uh, 2:14:47.920 --> 2:14:51.560 you know. I think something that's that's very important that 2:14:51.640 --> 2:14:55.600 I have not seen anyone talk about either in either 2:14:55.800 --> 2:15:00.080 sort of generosic of January eight, is that the the 2:15:00.280 --> 2:15:02.160 reaction to the coup on the left, and this is 2:15:02.240 --> 2:15:03.800 as true of the Brazilian left as it was with 2:15:03.800 --> 2:15:05.480 the American left. In fact, I think the American lifted 2:15:05.480 --> 2:15:09.480 American lefted way worse. In January six was paralysis, right, 2:15:09.560 --> 2:15:11.680 even in Brazil, which has these sort of one body 2:15:11.760 --> 2:15:14.800 social movements kind of mobilizations took almost a full day 2:15:14.840 --> 2:15:16.960 and materialized by the type, you know, by which point 2:15:16.960 --> 2:15:19.560 the threat already dissipated. So you know, for a for 2:15:19.680 --> 2:15:22.640 a full day, the only thing standing between the fascist 2:15:22.720 --> 2:15:25.760 and power was their own stupidity. And you know, as 2:15:25.800 --> 2:15:28.320 boundless as their stupidity seems like, watching these people like 2:15:28.400 --> 2:15:31.480 taking a dump on a cabinet, like with a camera 2:15:32.160 --> 2:15:34.960 in front of them, like it's not actually a shield 2:15:34.960 --> 2:15:38.240 against fascism, Like every every fascism after Bussolini and even Napoleon. 2:15:38.320 --> 2:15:40.680 The third who's like the sort of modern prototype of fascism, 2:15:41.000 --> 2:15:44.280 has at least one and usually two or three comically 2:15:44.360 --> 2:15:48.480 stupid like uprisings and coups that just fail, and they 2:15:48.520 --> 2:15:50.520 failed when everyone lasted them, and then number four, they're 2:15:50.520 --> 2:15:53.920 suddenly in power and it's like, wow, you can't you 2:15:54.040 --> 2:15:57.080 can't actually write these things off because they're funny, because 2:15:57.160 --> 2:16:00.160 again they're always funny for the first like two. Then 2:16:00.200 --> 2:16:01.840 on number three, like all your friends are being bars 2:16:01.880 --> 2:16:04.440 into a camp and shot, and it's like wow, yeah, 2:16:04.920 --> 2:16:08.200 and like we don't want to be in a place 2:16:08.240 --> 2:16:10.360 where like one growing up in the room is all 2:16:10.440 --> 2:16:13.280 that's between us and fascism, right like and adult making 2:16:13.320 --> 2:16:16.680 a plan, And I think there's there's a specific like 2:16:17.880 --> 2:16:19.880 I actually I think social media actually plays a really 2:16:19.960 --> 2:16:22.800 big role in this because you know, I can I 2:16:22.840 --> 2:16:26.120 remember this January six, like there was this kind of 2:16:26.280 --> 2:16:29.080 like the way that just turns everyone into a spectator. 2:16:30.720 --> 2:16:33.200 Everyone was just like, you know, I think it was 2:16:33.320 --> 2:16:34.879 Vicky Ouster, while I think was the first person who 2:16:34.879 --> 2:16:37.520 said this was like Twitter twit. Twitter is a machine 2:16:37.600 --> 2:16:41.520 that turns action into discourse. Yeah, and so you know what, 2:16:41.720 --> 2:16:43.960 while it was going on, right like everyone turned the 2:16:44.040 --> 2:16:46.000 action of the thing into discourse. Everyone was sort of 2:16:46.000 --> 2:16:50.240 like sitting there paralyzed watching it. And that is fatal 2:16:50.480 --> 2:16:52.520 like like that if you look at the actual stress 2:16:52.600 --> 2:16:54.800 test of the sort of machinery of power, right, like, 2:16:55.120 --> 2:16:56.840 it's actually I think it's actually much less of a 2:16:56.920 --> 2:16:59.600 big deal that the cops were on their side of 2:16:59.600 --> 2:17:02.000 the cops in Responder, because the cops eventually did clear 2:17:02.040 --> 2:17:03.800 them out right, it took it took a long time. 2:17:04.320 --> 2:17:06.000 The cons eventually did it. But I think I think 2:17:06.040 --> 2:17:09.520 the thing is actually more dangerous is that like there 2:17:09.640 --> 2:17:11.480 was there like there wasn't a response to the left 2:17:11.520 --> 2:17:14.560 at all. There's nothing right like there there were there 2:17:14.600 --> 2:17:17.200 were rallies in Seal Pollo. Like the next day was 2:17:17.200 --> 2:17:20.000 actually funny because both both both the rallies, both like 2:17:20.120 --> 2:17:22.040 the people sacking the capital and the people in sal 2:17:22.120 --> 2:17:25.160 Polo were both were both singing the national anthem, which 2:17:25.240 --> 2:17:30.240 is some real fun politics moments. It's another thing to 2:17:30.320 --> 2:17:34.800 talk about. Yeah, but yeah, you compare that to Spain, 2:17:34.879 --> 2:17:37.039 which somebviously where I'm most familiar with well, like people 2:17:37.080 --> 2:17:39.560 immediately got guns Scott in the street and started killing 2:17:39.640 --> 2:17:43.360 soldiers when they had much more effective and organized coup, right, 2:17:43.360 --> 2:17:45.240 and that coup would have failed where not for fascist 2:17:45.280 --> 2:17:48.920 intervention from abroad. But yeah, Brazil has powerful unions who 2:17:48.959 --> 2:17:51.840 did shit. Yeah, well, and partially I think that's that's 2:17:51.840 --> 2:17:53.040 like that has to do with the hollowing out of 2:17:53.080 --> 2:17:56.920 the unions and there's there's sort of long story here, 2:17:56.959 --> 2:17:58.480 but like you know, and even if you look at 2:17:58.560 --> 2:18:00.200 like I think this is this is a sign really 2:18:00.320 --> 2:18:05.800 of sort of how actually dynamic the left is because 2:18:05.800 --> 2:18:06.920 you know, if if if you want to look at 2:18:06.959 --> 2:18:09.840 like like a dynamic Latin American left, like they you know, 2:18:09.920 --> 2:18:11.840 there there was there was there was a very very 2:18:11.920 --> 2:18:17.320 well organized US backed coup against Hugo Chavez. She doesn't one. 2:18:17.440 --> 2:18:21.160 I was just one. It was it was just before 2:18:21.200 --> 2:18:26.520 I moved there, so I think it would. Ah, there 2:18:26.560 --> 2:18:29.000 were other coup attempts in Venezuela two that were less 2:18:29.040 --> 2:18:32.720 well organized. Yeah, she doesn't too. Yeah, he doesn't too. 2:18:33.360 --> 2:18:35.800 And yeah, that one't got far enough that like the 2:18:35.879 --> 2:18:38.199 New York Times was like had an article out about 2:18:38.200 --> 2:18:43.840 how democracy had been restored to the Cuba to Venezuela 2:18:44.160 --> 2:18:46.000 and then you know the thing, the thing that happened 2:18:46.000 --> 2:18:47.840 after that, and then there's there's a very famous movie 2:18:47.920 --> 2:18:50.600 of this from from a filmmaker who was just there. 2:18:51.480 --> 2:18:53.760 Is that over over over the next forty seven hours, 2:18:54.120 --> 2:18:57.400 like the left mobilized and they put so many people 2:18:57.440 --> 2:19:00.440 in the street that like the Coop Water has had 2:19:00.480 --> 2:19:02.240 to back down, and Hugo Travis has got to be 2:19:02.320 --> 2:19:05.280 president and you know that that's the thing that that's 2:19:05.280 --> 2:19:07.080 the thing that a strong left can do, right, they 2:19:07.160 --> 2:19:10.560 can actually defeat the military. And yeah, but you know, 2:19:10.680 --> 2:19:13.520 but this didn't the US just we fell down on 2:19:13.600 --> 2:19:17.840 the job. Like there wasn't much of that in Brazil. 2:19:18.360 --> 2:19:21.080 Like I like like it, Like it is true, as 2:19:21.160 --> 2:19:22.880 Lulu was saying, that they picked a day when everyone 2:19:23.000 --> 2:19:27.760 was gone. But it's still, I think really alarming that 2:19:29.440 --> 2:19:31.760 just by just by sort of acting first, they have 2:19:31.879 --> 2:19:35.520 so much of a sort of time advantage, sort of 2:19:35.520 --> 2:19:39.840 an advantage of reaction over US. Yeah, that film, by 2:19:39.840 --> 2:19:41.480 the way, people want to watch is called The Revolution 2:19:41.520 --> 2:19:43.720 Will Not be Televised, which is kind of a great 2:19:43.760 --> 2:19:46.640 title to the spectative thing that you were talking about. 2:19:47.400 --> 2:19:50.400 And yeah, I watched that bat boy and VHS back 2:19:50.440 --> 2:19:59.320 in the day in Caracas. Wow, yeah, good times. So okay, finally, 2:19:59.400 --> 2:20:01.600 in a broad sense, I want to ask, like, what 2:20:01.720 --> 2:20:06.280 are we doing here right? Um, the sort of dominant 2:20:06.320 --> 2:20:09.000 mode of quote unquote anti fascism, and this is the 2:20:09.040 --> 2:20:11.120 model that's being adopted by Lula and the rest of 2:20:11.160 --> 2:20:14.400 the sort of liberal and even sort of moderate conservative 2:20:14.440 --> 2:20:16.240 ruling class in Brazil. It's what's been adopted by the 2:20:16.280 --> 2:20:21.000 Democrats is their anti fascism is posing their opposition to 2:20:21.040 --> 2:20:24.720 fascism as a defensive democracy, the rule of law. Mhm. 2:20:26.520 --> 2:20:30.280 But yeah, okay, let's look at what's actually happening. These 2:20:30.400 --> 2:20:33.480 coups aren't working. That's the sort of actual power. Military 2:20:33.520 --> 2:20:36.120 attempts to take power. They're losing every time. But do 2:20:36.160 --> 2:20:39.080 you know how the fascists are taking power by democracy? 2:20:39.160 --> 2:20:42.000 Their greatest success has been in taking power but just 2:20:42.080 --> 2:20:44.880 winning elections. Like look look at what happened in India, right, 2:20:45.200 --> 2:20:48.280 That is a country that has been like very nearly 2:20:48.400 --> 2:20:51.120 totally consumed by fascism, and it was done by just 2:20:51.280 --> 2:20:56.080 elections over and over and over again. Hungry. Yeah, even 2:20:56.160 --> 2:21:00.240 here on a fundamental level, like what we're seeing right 2:21:00.280 --> 2:21:02.480 now out of the sort of broad swath of social 2:21:02.920 --> 2:21:06.480 sort of liberalism, conservatism and social democracy is an unsustainable strategy, 2:21:06.879 --> 2:21:10.680 anti fashion, anti fascism as a pure defensive democracy is 2:21:10.720 --> 2:21:12.880 just preserving the machine that will hand the power of 2:21:12.959 --> 2:21:14.920 the state over to the fascist of the silver platter. 2:21:16.160 --> 2:21:19.200 And you know that like this, this defensive democracy in 2:21:19.200 --> 2:21:21.680 the abstract is a death march. Right. You know, if 2:21:21.760 --> 2:21:23.280 if you can, you can you can look at the 2:21:23.320 --> 2:21:27.120 sort of course of of the late nineties, the late century, Right, 2:21:27.240 --> 2:21:29.680 why did the bombs fall over Bagdad? Well, protect democracy? 2:21:29.959 --> 2:21:32.119 When when the Mexican government was shooting the Zapatistas, they're 2:21:32.120 --> 2:21:35.360 protecting democracy. When the cops rated the when the cops 2:21:35.480 --> 2:21:37.879 rated the Forest Defenders in Atlanta, Oh, it's because they 2:21:37.920 --> 2:21:42.400 were domestic terrorists who are threatening democracy. But what's happened 2:21:42.440 --> 2:21:44.040 here is that the threat of fascism has sort of 2:21:44.120 --> 2:21:47.240 press ganged armies of people who otherwise would be enemies 2:21:47.480 --> 2:21:50.440 of sort of capitalist quote unquote democracy into protecting the 2:21:50.560 --> 2:21:52.840 very institutions that are inevitably going to bring these people 2:21:52.879 --> 2:21:57.480 back into power. And that's really grim because it means 2:21:57.520 --> 2:21:59.560 that something has to change or we're just gonna come 2:21:59.560 --> 2:22:02.240 back here again and again and again, until eventually enough 2:22:02.280 --> 2:22:04.560 of the ruling class flips to back into fascists that 2:22:04.600 --> 2:22:08.840 they seiz power once and for all. So, you know, something, 2:22:09.120 --> 2:22:11.600 we have to do something else that's not just this 2:22:11.920 --> 2:22:16.080 that sort of desperate treading water. Yeah, like like fighting 2:22:16.160 --> 2:22:18.600 to stand still in this terrible place where people can't 2:22:18.640 --> 2:22:21.480 pay their heating bills and feed their families. Yeah, it's 2:22:21.520 --> 2:22:26.760 it's pretty dire sucking outlook for us, isn't it. Yeah? 2:22:26.760 --> 2:22:28.280 But I mean, you know, I would say this like 2:22:28.360 --> 2:22:31.400 that there was a vision inw of what that something 2:22:31.440 --> 2:22:34.400 else could be, right, Like, it's it's it's not it's 2:22:34.440 --> 2:22:36.160 it's it's not like we're in the depths of like 2:22:36.400 --> 2:22:39.440 the two thousands where no one has ever seen like 2:22:40.000 --> 2:22:43.320 anything that's taking possible, right. Yeah, Like there are a 2:22:43.320 --> 2:22:46.040 lot of people probably listening because they saw that vision 2:22:47.240 --> 2:22:48.680 and it changed who they want to be and how 2:22:48.720 --> 2:22:50.039 they want the world to be. And I think that's 2:22:50.080 --> 2:22:53.480 really good and uh for me at least, I think 2:22:53.680 --> 2:22:56.360 once people around in the streets, which people weren't able 2:22:56.400 --> 2:22:58.760 to do in time in Brazil, like, they will tend 2:22:58.840 --> 2:23:02.560 to find that salute shann Outside of institutions, that the 2:23:02.840 --> 2:23:06.440 response has been almost entirely institutional, at least in here 2:23:06.680 --> 2:23:10.080 in this country to a fascist coup because people didn't 2:23:10.200 --> 2:23:12.200 and people were tired from your industry and they've all 2:23:12.240 --> 2:23:14.879 been fucking arrested and half of them have been shot. 2:23:15.320 --> 2:23:17.080 And but part of the problem also is just like 2:23:17.520 --> 2:23:19.080 there's there's like the US just has a sort of 2:23:19.120 --> 2:23:21.400 geographical problem then, and Brazil has this to to some extent, 2:23:21.480 --> 2:23:24.200 which is that like, yeah, this is not like Belgium 2:23:24.400 --> 2:23:27.520 you can very quickly get people to the capital, like 2:23:27.879 --> 2:23:30.680 you can't. You can't actually like it is actually genuinely 2:23:30.800 --> 2:23:33.040 very hard to get a bunch of people to a 2:23:33.160 --> 2:23:37.080 place quickly here, right, which you know is a thing 2:23:37.120 --> 2:23:39.320 where we're lucky that yeah, like that the capital kind 2:23:39.320 --> 2:23:43.240 of like holding the capital, doesn't you know, it's it's 2:23:43.240 --> 2:23:44.760 it's not a thing that actually allows you to sort 2:23:44.800 --> 2:23:48.120 of take power. But it's also a real sort of 2:23:48.440 --> 2:23:50.960 concern about politics in the US because it can't work 2:23:51.040 --> 2:23:52.440 the same way it works in a lot of places 2:23:52.480 --> 2:23:57.560 that are smaller. Yeah yeah, yeah, like Bolivia for example, 2:23:58.120 --> 2:24:00.880 yeah yeah, or even Venet's wait, right, like so much 2:24:00.959 --> 2:24:03.720 of the institution almost everything is in Caracas, even though 2:24:03.720 --> 2:24:06.760 it's a big country. Yeah, that's that's that's pretty much 2:24:06.760 --> 2:24:09.440 all I got. Um, well, we'll see, we'll see if 2:24:09.560 --> 2:24:14.200 Bolstaro when when he gets out of the hospital, if 2:24:14.200 --> 2:24:17.840 he gets out of the hospital, he's returned to his 2:24:18.040 --> 2:24:21.959 social home. Yeah, yeah, it's it's always good to see 2:24:22.000 --> 2:24:24.880 people with with takes on situation in Brazil who also 2:24:24.920 --> 2:24:27.680 think the capital is Rio. That's always a fun thing 2:24:27.760 --> 2:24:31.880 that I can see on Twitter Dot. It's okay not 2:24:32.080 --> 2:24:35.200 to post you know, this is my okay, I have 2:24:37.040 --> 2:24:39.440 what what are my rules of thumb about talking about 2:24:39.440 --> 2:24:42.000 a place is if if you can't name five cities 2:24:42.040 --> 2:24:45.880 in a country, don't talk about it. Yeah, this is 2:24:45.920 --> 2:24:48.879 the thing that like so many like people, people people 2:24:48.959 --> 2:24:52.320 who get paid to write articles about places like just fail. 2:24:54.240 --> 2:24:57.920 People who get this is like like, frankly, you should 2:24:57.959 --> 2:25:00.200 be able to like like if if I was doing 2:25:00.280 --> 2:25:02.280 due diligence, I would I would be learning, I would 2:25:02.280 --> 2:25:05.279 be actually learning Portuguese right now instead of like relying 2:25:05.360 --> 2:25:08.040 on my Spanish to sort of like power through it. 2:25:09.800 --> 2:25:12.120 But you know, like the lowest bar is you should 2:25:12.120 --> 2:25:13.560 go the capitol and you should be able to name 2:25:13.640 --> 2:25:15.360 five cities in it. And if you can't do that, 2:25:15.560 --> 2:25:18.760 like maybe don't post. Yeah, it's fine not to post. 2:25:18.840 --> 2:25:22.520 In fact, when dealing with coups, maybe consider options that 2:25:22.600 --> 2:25:26.680 are not posting. Yeah, and and yeah, go go out 2:25:26.800 --> 2:25:30.720 and stop them. M hmm, make friends. Yeah. So this 2:25:30.879 --> 2:25:32.400 this is when it could happen. Here. You can find 2:25:32.520 --> 2:25:51.640 us in the places on social media. We live in 2:25:51.720 --> 2:25:55.280 a period of increasing class conflict. During the Trump years, 2:25:55.520 --> 2:26:01.360 strike action reached the seventeen year high. Strike surged, increasing 2:26:01.360 --> 2:26:06.480 almost over as workers fought back against rising inflation and 2:26:06.600 --> 2:26:10.400 the cost of living. Fights over unionization hit sectors previously 2:26:10.480 --> 2:26:14.200 thought to be un organizable, as workers declared victory across 2:26:14.320 --> 2:26:18.119 fast food chains, Starbucks, and Amazon. And this increased strike 2:26:18.160 --> 2:26:21.200 activity is taking place against the rising course of revolt. 2:26:21.879 --> 2:26:25.400 Tenants are farming unions and launching rent strikes. Riots kick 2:26:25.440 --> 2:26:28.040 off in the face of police murdering on average over 2:26:28.160 --> 2:26:31.160 three people per day, and kids walk out of school 2:26:31.400 --> 2:26:34.920 demanding everything from access to ppe to an end too 2:26:34.959 --> 2:26:37.920 attacks on queer and trans youth. It's not just that 2:26:38.040 --> 2:26:41.000 strikes are increasing, but the logic of the strike to 2:26:41.120 --> 2:26:44.440 strike a blow against one's class enemies, to enact a 2:26:44.600 --> 2:26:50.040 cost and generalized collective refusal is spreading. As two comes 2:26:50.120 --> 2:26:53.920 to a close. The largest strike by education workers across 2:26:54.000 --> 2:26:58.080 the University of California system has seen barricades, occupied buildings, 2:26:58.600 --> 2:27:01.920 and strikers even liberal eating dining halls to feed themselves. 2:27:02.640 --> 2:27:04.680 Members of the United Mine Workers have been on the 2:27:04.720 --> 2:27:07.760 picket lines for almost two years. In this holiday season, 2:27:07.920 --> 2:27:11.440 over one thousand rail workers stunned the brink of crippling 2:27:11.480 --> 2:27:14.800 the US economy and an effort to win sickly as 2:27:14.879 --> 2:27:17.760 the government rushed to enforce a contract and break the strike. 2:27:18.640 --> 2:27:21.080 With so many people on the verge of striking, it's 2:27:21.120 --> 2:27:23.480 easy to wonder what would happen if a strike across 2:27:23.600 --> 2:27:27.760 industries could be organized, a general strike. It's this very 2:27:27.800 --> 2:27:31.840 subject that we tackle in today's show. And speaking of strikes, 2:27:32.360 --> 2:27:34.640 the producers of it could happen here have walked off 2:27:34.680 --> 2:27:38.600 the job and it's going down. It's taken over. Excited 2:27:38.680 --> 2:27:42.200 to be here, that's right. I g D will be 2:27:42.320 --> 2:27:45.199 occupying the means of this production for five shows throughout 2:27:45.200 --> 2:27:47.320 the month of January as we address some of the 2:27:47.360 --> 2:27:50.320 major issues of today while looking back at recent examples 2:27:50.360 --> 2:27:53.760 in history about how the exploiting excluded have attempted to 2:27:53.840 --> 2:27:57.600 meet the conditions which miserate our lives head on. Each episode, 2:27:57.640 --> 2:28:00.080 of course is going to have special guests and he 2:28:00.240 --> 2:28:03.440 die from us. Launching the summer of two thousands fifteen, 2:28:04.000 --> 2:28:07.480 it's going down as a media platform, radio show, and podcast. 2:28:07.920 --> 2:28:09.960 It covers a ton of a social movements from an 2:28:09.959 --> 2:28:13.880 anarchist perspective. As a group, we represent folks from across 2:28:13.920 --> 2:28:17.600 the US. Tom and myself have been involved in covering 2:28:17.760 --> 2:28:21.880 and participating in social struggles for over twenty years. Sophie's 2:28:21.920 --> 2:28:25.720 a long time educator and community organizer across multiple continents. 2:28:25.959 --> 2:28:29.240 Marcella is a writer and comedian. This is Mike Andrews. 2:28:29.400 --> 2:28:34.320 Happy to be here. I'm Sophie Marcella and I'm Tom. Yeah, 2:28:34.400 --> 2:28:37.200 this is really cool. Thanks to all that it could 2:28:37.200 --> 2:28:39.400 happen here people. It's awesome. Yeah, I'm excited to be 2:28:39.560 --> 2:28:42.760 here and talk about strikes. It's gonna be a fun time. Yeah, 2:28:42.800 --> 2:28:45.840 I'm excited about today's topic very much. So, just to 2:28:45.879 --> 2:28:48.360 start off, it's interesting, it seems like every few weeks 2:28:48.640 --> 2:28:51.320 on social media, every couple of months, whenever there's like 2:28:51.360 --> 2:28:53.600 a big issue that comes up or something's going on 2:28:54.000 --> 2:28:57.320 in the news cycle, the idea of a general strike 2:28:57.400 --> 2:28:59.080 will trend or sort of kind of get out in 2:28:59.080 --> 2:29:02.160 the ether as this zeit guys that becomes really popular 2:29:02.360 --> 2:29:04.560 and you know, we live in this time and increasing 2:29:04.720 --> 2:29:08.320 protests and strikes and riots. But it also seems like 2:29:08.840 --> 2:29:12.560 the possibility of a general strike seems like very far off, 2:29:13.120 --> 2:29:15.760 or the idea of it even being this like trending 2:29:15.879 --> 2:29:18.760 thing on social media is sort of like passe are silly. 2:29:18.959 --> 2:29:23.080 And also it happens so often and we don't see 2:29:23.120 --> 2:29:26.120 it materialized, it can be easy to sort of write 2:29:26.160 --> 2:29:28.240 it off. Or on the other hand, a lot of 2:29:28.320 --> 2:29:30.879 people will say, well, if you want that to happen 2:29:30.959 --> 2:29:34.039 instead of just like wishing it to be on social media, 2:29:34.600 --> 2:29:38.320 you should just join a union and get involved that way. 2:29:38.920 --> 2:29:43.359 It seems that this drive to constantly declared general strikes, 2:29:43.520 --> 2:29:47.440 though ambitious, sometimes to the point of, you know, people 2:29:47.520 --> 2:29:49.400 being able to sort of make fun of it, the 2:29:49.480 --> 2:29:52.600 reality is is that the repeated sort of call for 2:29:52.720 --> 2:29:55.880 that has normalized that idea and what we're seeing a 2:29:56.000 --> 2:29:58.680 lot in specifically in the US, but we're seeing a 2:29:58.760 --> 2:30:02.000 lot of people at the workplaces recognized that the business 2:30:02.080 --> 2:30:05.320 unions have failed. Right, It's how we got here. I 2:30:05.400 --> 2:30:07.160 live in the rest Belt I live in the midst 2:30:07.240 --> 2:30:09.240 of the failure of business unions every single day in 2:30:09.280 --> 2:30:11.760 my life, and that they've also come to understand something 2:30:11.920 --> 2:30:14.720 that the autonomous in Italy we're talking about the seventies, 2:30:14.800 --> 2:30:17.920 which is that workers already control the means of production. 2:30:18.000 --> 2:30:20.640 They're already there. They already run the coffee shop, run 2:30:20.680 --> 2:30:23.000 the restaurant, run the warehouse, run the tech company, whatever. 2:30:23.480 --> 2:30:26.400 And if they just stop, nobody makes any money. And 2:30:26.520 --> 2:30:28.480 you don't need a union in a formal sense to 2:30:28.560 --> 2:30:30.959 do that. And so I think a lot of workers 2:30:31.080 --> 2:30:34.920 that traditionally fell outside of unions are starting to understand 2:30:34.959 --> 2:30:37.400 their powers workers outside of that structure, and that is 2:30:37.480 --> 2:30:40.400 incredibly important for us going forward. Yeah, I mean, I 2:30:40.480 --> 2:30:42.920 think you're totally right. I mean, I don't think quiet 2:30:43.000 --> 2:30:45.280 quitting came out of nowhere. And I know it's just 2:30:45.320 --> 2:30:47.560 like an idea. I like loud quitting more like I 2:30:47.640 --> 2:30:50.720 prefer that. But um, I do think this culture, we're 2:30:50.760 --> 2:30:52.800 creating a culture where it is okay to be anti work. 2:30:52.879 --> 2:30:54.120 It is okay for you to say I hate my 2:30:54.200 --> 2:30:56.160 job and I actually don't do anything and I steal 2:30:56.240 --> 2:30:58.280 from my boss, and we should normalize that, right, Like 2:30:58.520 --> 2:31:00.560 I don't think striking is just this whole thing. And 2:31:00.640 --> 2:31:02.280 I do want to say this before I move into that. 2:31:02.520 --> 2:31:05.240 Every single time I posted TikTok video, somebody's always like 2:31:05.320 --> 2:31:09.760 general strike July. So it's like, yeah, it's definitely on 2:31:10.080 --> 2:31:12.600 the internet a lot. But I do think even people 2:31:12.680 --> 2:31:14.720 saying that I'm not doing it has an impact because 2:31:14.720 --> 2:31:17.320 it's like, what is that? Martin Soustri said, you have 2:31:17.440 --> 2:31:19.680 to fight the culture, and the culture that we live 2:31:19.720 --> 2:31:21.520 in now is a culture that's like obsessed with work 2:31:21.560 --> 2:31:24.480 for works sake, and so like maybe part of it 2:31:24.640 --> 2:31:26.920 is like, yeah, workers already owns the means of production. Yeah, 2:31:26.920 --> 2:31:28.760 I just don't work as hard on your job, you know, 2:31:28.959 --> 2:31:31.160 and if your work steal from your boss, it doesn't 2:31:31.320 --> 2:31:34.200 have to be like this organizational thing. Because one thing 2:31:34.320 --> 2:31:35.840 is that, like you have to realize is that sometimes 2:31:35.920 --> 2:31:38.879 union work unions work with management. So it's like even 2:31:38.920 --> 2:31:40.960 if you're like, yeah, like I want to wait for 2:31:41.000 --> 2:31:42.520 my union, it's like what if your union is like 2:31:42.560 --> 2:31:44.960 the fertile a union that will go behind your back 2:31:45.120 --> 2:31:47.480 and like make decisions. Um. I guess all this to 2:31:47.560 --> 2:31:51.600 say is that I think changing the culture is important. Um. 2:31:51.720 --> 2:31:54.680 And I think that's happening now. I think I, like 2:31:54.760 --> 2:31:56.280 you said at the end of that, just like how 2:31:57.240 --> 2:31:58.560 something that I think we'll get into a lot more 2:31:58.600 --> 2:32:01.039 in this episode is looking at how this life claims 2:32:01.080 --> 2:32:03.760 to join the union being the practical thing to do 2:32:03.959 --> 2:32:06.480 towards a general strike just isn't accurate at all. And 2:32:06.560 --> 2:32:08.080 that when you look back in history at kind of 2:32:08.120 --> 2:32:11.760 any of the exciting moments of UM general strikes are 2:32:11.840 --> 2:32:14.800 uprising and stuff, it doesn't come from those official channels UM. 2:32:14.879 --> 2:32:16.920 And so I'm excited to get into that more. And 2:32:17.040 --> 2:32:18.480 I think, Yeah, I like with saying like this thing 2:32:18.520 --> 2:32:20.400 where it's just become this thing that people will like 2:32:20.600 --> 2:32:23.400 say and talk about even if there's not that cultural 2:32:23.480 --> 2:32:25.720 memory of like exactly what a general strike means or 2:32:25.800 --> 2:32:28.560 what what what's going to happen, there's this idea of 2:32:28.720 --> 2:32:32.200 like refusal and of solidarity that is captured just in 2:32:32.280 --> 2:32:34.000 the world and just in saying it. But I think 2:32:34.040 --> 2:32:37.800 it's really like sewing that energy up and speaking of 2:32:37.879 --> 2:32:41.720 cultural memory. Fact, you're dynamite in your pitchforks because it's 2:32:41.800 --> 2:32:45.560 time for a trip down memory lane. In the early 2:32:46.200 --> 2:32:48.720 dred of the United States Group site the Industrial Workers 2:32:48.760 --> 2:32:51.560 of the world of the IWW, which advocated for the 2:32:51.600 --> 2:32:55.520 abortion of the wage system and capitalism, rejected racist exclusions 2:32:55.520 --> 2:32:58.000 of non white workers in the labor movement, and even 2:32:58.040 --> 2:33:01.640 engage in shootouts with the KKK popularized the idea of 2:33:01.720 --> 2:33:04.600 the general strike in the United States on a large scale, 2:33:04.879 --> 2:33:07.680 but the idea itself and its application in US history 2:33:08.120 --> 2:33:10.640 is much older. Throughout the late eighteen hundreds and early 2:33:10.760 --> 2:33:14.200 nineteen hundreds, anarchists, socialists, and everyday members of the working 2:33:14.240 --> 2:33:18.000 class all promoted and carried out multiple general strikes as 2:33:18.040 --> 2:33:21.040 a means to win political and economic concessions. For some, 2:33:21.200 --> 2:33:24.120 the general strike was also a launchpad for revolution, in 2:33:24.160 --> 2:33:27.000 which workers could, in theory, seize the means of existence 2:33:27.040 --> 2:33:29.119 out of the hands of the capital's class and run 2:33:29.200 --> 2:33:32.000 society on its own terms. And it's this battle that 2:33:32.120 --> 2:33:35.720 thrust millions of everyday working class people directly into conflict 2:33:35.760 --> 2:33:39.080 with the American state and its military. In US history, 2:33:39.160 --> 2:33:41.680 the first large scale example of a general strike occurred 2:33:41.680 --> 2:33:44.400 in the midst of the American Civil War and W. E. B. 2:33:44.600 --> 2:33:48.240 Dwo Boys famous book Black Reconstruction, he explains how it 2:33:48.320 --> 2:33:51.040 was the general strike of the enslaved black proletariat that 2:33:51.120 --> 2:33:55.039 brought down the plantation system, not President Lincoln. Er Union bullets. 2:33:55.360 --> 2:33:58.199 The Boys argues that just like the black lead insurrections 2:33:58.240 --> 2:34:00.600 of today and ferguson him in the Apple, this strike 2:34:00.680 --> 2:34:03.880 took bourgeois white society by total surprise, he writes it 2:34:03.959 --> 2:34:06.600 in the South newspapers, and ied the very idea that 2:34:06.680 --> 2:34:09.360 slaves could ever free themselves, and even claim that they 2:34:09.640 --> 2:34:12.280 quote did not want to be free, he writes, of 2:34:12.360 --> 2:34:15.040 white society in the North. The North shrank at the 2:34:15.160 --> 2:34:19.039 very thought of encouraging servile insurrection against the whites. Above all, 2:34:19.120 --> 2:34:22.080 it did not propose to interfere with property. Black people 2:34:22.120 --> 2:34:25.240 on the whole were considered cowards and inferior beings whose 2:34:25.320 --> 2:34:29.000 very presence in America was unfortunate. Only John Brown knew 2:34:29.000 --> 2:34:32.120 that revolt would come, and he was dead. So the 2:34:32.240 --> 2:34:34.680 Boys really painted this picture of this mass care and 2:34:34.800 --> 2:34:37.879 society in which slavery is seen as very sad. More 2:34:38.080 --> 2:34:41.240 terrifying is the idea of mass black insurrection, which of 2:34:41.320 --> 2:34:44.920 course mirrors today's situation. I mean, that's what the suburbs are. 2:34:48.440 --> 2:34:51.360 I mean right like that suburbs aren't. It's like for 2:34:51.520 --> 2:34:53.560 you to like pretend like all the things that you 2:34:53.680 --> 2:34:56.040 have are not built on blood. It's for you to 2:34:56.200 --> 2:34:59.879 like segment yourself away from the people in society than 2:35:00.040 --> 2:35:02.360 give you everything you have, yet you've denied them everything. 2:35:02.560 --> 2:35:04.640 See you going you a little home and like drinking 2:35:04.640 --> 2:35:06.760 a little tea and like watch your little movies and 2:35:06.879 --> 2:35:08.680 just like ignore the fact that you're an asphalt, you 2:35:08.720 --> 2:35:10.760 know what I mean, Like just like and even not 2:35:10.879 --> 2:35:12.840 even more more than an apple. I was going as 2:35:12.840 --> 2:35:14.240 far as saying, I used to say that they're not 2:35:14.320 --> 2:35:15.960 good or bad people, but like you're acting like a 2:35:16.040 --> 2:35:18.760 bad person, Like you don't care about other people because 2:35:18.959 --> 2:35:21.120 you've been tricked to think that, like you're getting a 2:35:21.200 --> 2:35:23.760 good deal. And it's an interesting point that the Boys 2:35:23.879 --> 2:35:26.520 makes about just like. It was only kind of the 2:35:26.760 --> 2:35:29.760 radical wing of the abolishnist movement that was talking about 2:35:29.800 --> 2:35:32.600 open revolt. There's this early anarchist A lot of people 2:35:33.120 --> 2:35:36.480 don't reference a lot, but wis under Spooner. He conspired 2:35:36.520 --> 2:35:39.039 with John Brown in various plots, and he later became 2:35:39.080 --> 2:35:41.880 a member of the First International and a contributor to 2:35:41.959 --> 2:35:45.400 early anarchist publications like Liberty. He produced this really early 2:35:45.520 --> 2:35:48.280 text which is just fantastic. It's called a Plan for 2:35:48.360 --> 2:35:51.680 the Abolish of Slavery, published in eighteen fifty eight. It's 2:35:51.720 --> 2:35:53.800 a couple of years before the Civil War. He writes, 2:35:53.920 --> 2:35:56.640 Our plan then is to make our war openly or 2:35:56.720 --> 2:36:00.959 secretly a circumstances may dictate upon the property of the slaveholders. 2:36:01.240 --> 2:36:05.560 Burn the master's buildings, kill their cattle and horses, conceal 2:36:05.800 --> 2:36:09.720 or destroy farming utensils, abandoned labor in seed time and harvest, 2:36:09.840 --> 2:36:14.480 and let the crops perish. Make slavery unprofitable. I love 2:36:14.520 --> 2:36:17.400 the line conceal or destroyed that you can destroy them, 2:36:17.440 --> 2:36:19.560 you can also hide them. This is like a parallel 2:36:19.600 --> 2:36:21.200 that we can drawn out to like if you want 2:36:21.200 --> 2:36:24.000 to like have solidarity with like like other wage slaves, 2:36:24.160 --> 2:36:26.720 is that like do accommodate them and help them steal 2:36:26.879 --> 2:36:30.720 from their I mean from their jobs. I mean it's 2:36:30.800 --> 2:36:33.280 like these things happened in the past, but these are 2:36:33.360 --> 2:36:35.760 tactics that we can still use in the present. There's 2:36:35.840 --> 2:36:39.040 echoes of this quote later with Lucy Parsons, right, and 2:36:39.080 --> 2:36:41.680 you see this during the structure in Our Work at Chicago, 2:36:41.800 --> 2:36:44.360 where she gives a speech where she's talking about grabbing 2:36:44.400 --> 2:36:46.680 knives and going to the doors of the rich as 2:36:46.720 --> 2:36:48.920 a way to make it very very very clear that 2:36:49.000 --> 2:36:50.680 they weren't going to be able to live off the 2:36:50.720 --> 2:36:53.680 backs of the working class anymore. Right, um, And it's 2:36:53.760 --> 2:36:57.840 the sort of idea of direct action, which now, I mean, 2:36:57.920 --> 2:37:00.400 if we think about, now, what are politicians doing. They're 2:37:00.400 --> 2:37:02.200 trying to pass laws to make it a felony to 2:37:02.240 --> 2:37:05.560 have home demonstrations, right to like do exactly these kinds 2:37:05.600 --> 2:37:08.080 of things, but in much more passive ways. So if 2:37:08.120 --> 2:37:09.680 we can really think back, I mean, this is a 2:37:09.760 --> 2:37:12.040 tried and true technique that people used in the United 2:37:12.080 --> 2:37:14.000 States for a very very long time, and we can 2:37:14.080 --> 2:37:17.200 see still how much that terrifies people with power. There's 2:37:17.200 --> 2:37:19.240 another awesome quote from Spooner I just want to read 2:37:19.280 --> 2:37:21.240 as well, and this I find this one really interesting 2:37:21.280 --> 2:37:24.120 because he's speaking actually to white people in the South, 2:37:24.280 --> 2:37:26.960 especially people that work in the slave patrols. He says, 2:37:27.080 --> 2:37:30.400 white rascals of the South, willing tools of the slaveholders. 2:37:30.680 --> 2:37:33.080 You who drive slaves to do their labor, hunt them 2:37:33.120 --> 2:37:37.400 with dogs, and flogged them for pay without asking any questions. 2:37:37.760 --> 2:37:40.280 You are the main pillars of the slave system. That 2:37:40.400 --> 2:37:43.960 is the most eloquent way to say exactly that's exactly 2:37:44.000 --> 2:37:48.720 what I was thinking. I think it's interesting to point out, 2:37:48.959 --> 2:37:51.920 as do Boys Rights, and as Frederick Douglas said of 2:37:51.959 --> 2:37:55.160 the Civil War, it was started quote in the interests 2:37:55.200 --> 2:37:58.360 of slavery on both sides. The South was fighting to 2:37:58.480 --> 2:38:01.680 take slavery out of the and the North was fighting 2:38:01.800 --> 2:38:05.040 to keep it in. And the mass black exodus did 2:38:05.120 --> 2:38:07.240 not kick off at the start of the war. He 2:38:07.360 --> 2:38:10.040 makes the really important point that Union leaders made it 2:38:10.120 --> 2:38:13.080 clear that they did not want to disrupt the plantation system. 2:38:13.600 --> 2:38:17.000 At times, generals even offered to put down slave rebellions, 2:38:17.160 --> 2:38:20.200 and he says that they even forbade at least in 2:38:20.280 --> 2:38:24.520 some instances, union soldiers from singing the song John Brown's Body. 2:38:24.840 --> 2:38:27.080 But as the North pushed into the South, the flood 2:38:27.160 --> 2:38:30.039 of former slaves escaping into Union hands grew and grew. 2:38:30.320 --> 2:38:33.760 By eighteen sixty two is the Boys Rights. This was 2:38:33.840 --> 2:38:36.800 the beginning of the swarming of increasing numbers no longer 2:38:36.959 --> 2:38:40.240 to work on Confederate plantations, a movement that became a 2:38:40.320 --> 2:38:43.520 general strike against the slave system. This was not merely 2:38:43.600 --> 2:38:45.920 the desire to stop work. It was a strike on 2:38:46.040 --> 2:38:48.880 a wide basis against the conditions of work. It was 2:38:48.959 --> 2:38:52.480 a general strike that involved directly in the end, perhaps 2:38:52.600 --> 2:38:55.439 half a million people. They wanted to stop the economy 2:38:55.520 --> 2:38:58.400 of the plantation system, and to do that they left 2:38:58.440 --> 2:39:02.080 the plantations. It's interest into and the Boys makes this point. 2:39:02.480 --> 2:39:05.480 The general strike also encouraged and took place alongside many 2:39:05.560 --> 2:39:08.959 poor whites deserting the Confederate army. One thing that's interesting 2:39:09.040 --> 2:39:11.920 about the Confederate side of the Civil War. You could 2:39:11.920 --> 2:39:14.440 get out of fighting if you own slaves, and a 2:39:14.560 --> 2:39:17.680 lot of poor whites deserted the Confederate army, which further 2:39:17.720 --> 2:39:20.440 crippled it. As the Boys noted, the poor white not 2:39:20.600 --> 2:39:23.119 only began to desert and run away, but thousands followed 2:39:23.280 --> 2:39:26.040 black people into the northern camps. And just some key 2:39:26.120 --> 2:39:29.119 takeaways to like launch into discussion side of this, It's 2:39:29.240 --> 2:39:33.000 interesting that the wider society, as the Boys notes, before 2:39:33.080 --> 2:39:36.959 the Civil War disparaged the possibility of mass collective action. 2:39:37.080 --> 2:39:41.680 And I think this really mirrors contemporary conspiracy theories and 2:39:41.800 --> 2:39:45.800 narratives around black rebellion today that happened often either in 2:39:45.840 --> 2:39:48.920 the midst of the George Flight uprising or afterwards, and 2:39:49.040 --> 2:39:52.840 also the mass strike and refusal that happened during the 2:39:52.920 --> 2:39:56.840 Civil War, which disrupted the economy and made things like 2:39:57.040 --> 2:39:59.920 the slave patrols, the policing of the plantation system and 2:40:00.040 --> 2:40:05.200 possible that helped bring down the Confederacy obviously, and I 2:40:05.320 --> 2:40:09.080 think it's important to ask, as our contemporary society remains 2:40:09.120 --> 2:40:13.320 structured around racial capitalism, what might be done in the 2:40:13.440 --> 2:40:16.240 current system in terms of mass refusal and desertion that 2:40:16.320 --> 2:40:21.000 would cause a similar effect. The idea of the widest 2:40:21.000 --> 2:40:24.600 society and disparaging mass collective action is because that the 2:40:24.760 --> 2:40:27.240 fear is letting us know that we do have mass power, 2:40:27.560 --> 2:40:29.560 you know what I mean. It's like it's not a 2:40:29.600 --> 2:40:32.560 surprise that people always say that Lincoln freed the slaves, 2:40:32.640 --> 2:40:35.120 and Lincoln literally said, if I have had to end 2:40:35.160 --> 2:40:37.240 slavery to save the Union, I would have ended slavery. 2:40:37.280 --> 2:40:39.040 And if I have to keep slavery to save the Union, 2:40:39.040 --> 2:40:41.000 I would have kept a slavery, you know what I mean. 2:40:41.280 --> 2:40:43.200 So just like this whole idea of like letting black 2:40:43.240 --> 2:40:45.760 people know you can't do ship, don't even bother is 2:40:45.800 --> 2:40:49.160 because they know that we can't do ship, and we 2:40:49.280 --> 2:40:52.640 are doing ship because black people are always rebelling. Um 2:40:52.720 --> 2:40:54.160 if you come to flop push you see it in 2:40:54.240 --> 2:40:56.600 full color. They realize the governments them and give a 2:40:56.640 --> 2:40:59.200 funk about them, and they've created their own institutions to 2:40:59.240 --> 2:41:02.000 support them. So um yeah, So it's like this whole 2:41:02.040 --> 2:41:04.440 idea to let us tell us don't even bother and 2:41:04.720 --> 2:41:08.000 and and like criminalizing like the informal sector because it's 2:41:08.040 --> 2:41:10.400 like that's a way for us like gain power outside 2:41:10.440 --> 2:41:13.320 of like the formal sector, you know what I mean, 2:41:13.440 --> 2:41:15.160 and things like that. So I just think it's like 2:41:15.959 --> 2:41:17.960 it's like when they tell us don't bother, trying to 2:41:18.040 --> 2:41:20.080 fight back, like everybody has to suffer, Like that's what 2:41:20.120 --> 2:41:22.320 they always say. Everybody suffered, and we all just suffer. 2:41:22.600 --> 2:41:24.800 And it's like, no, we don't want to suffering. We're 2:41:24.800 --> 2:41:27.760 actually doing things to ease our suffering. And um, I 2:41:27.840 --> 2:41:30.840 think this is just like all this is to say 2:41:31.000 --> 2:41:34.440 that people who are out there doing stuff keep doing stuff. 2:41:34.480 --> 2:41:36.080 And like, if you want to do stuff, do it. 2:41:36.800 --> 2:41:38.680 You don't have to be brought of reunion. You don't 2:41:38.720 --> 2:41:40.560 have to put your job and be an activist. By 2:41:40.600 --> 2:41:42.920 the way, paid activists not really activists. You can do 2:41:43.040 --> 2:41:44.680 regular ship and your hold that you can do a 2:41:44.800 --> 2:41:47.320 free store on the corner of your streets. So people 2:41:47.360 --> 2:41:49.720 can have clothes. It's like you could striking from the 2:41:49.800 --> 2:41:54.160 economy means like divesting your time and resources, and you 2:41:54.200 --> 2:41:55.480 can do it. We can all do it in some 2:41:55.600 --> 2:41:57.520 shape or form well, and I think it becomes a 2:41:57.560 --> 2:42:01.200 lot more possible today to think about that than it did, 2:42:01.320 --> 2:42:06.760 say before. Right, So, we had this kind of collapse 2:42:06.959 --> 2:42:09.560 of the legitimacy of the American political projects sort of 2:42:09.640 --> 2:42:11.800 with the Iraq War, right, we all kind of saw 2:42:11.920 --> 2:42:14.560 how badly that can turn out. But what was left 2:42:14.720 --> 2:42:18.360 in America to uphold the entire edifice was the idea 2:42:18.480 --> 2:42:21.440 that even though things politically were kind of screwed up, 2:42:21.640 --> 2:42:25.320 at least there's economic success. And then that failed to right. 2:42:25.480 --> 2:42:29.240 And so this sort of idea that built up after 2:42:29.600 --> 2:42:33.000 World War Two, this kind of concept of, you know, 2:42:33.160 --> 2:42:35.560 the labor corporate compromise, the loyal worker that's going to 2:42:35.640 --> 2:42:38.080 get provided for for the rest of their life. Not 2:42:38.200 --> 2:42:40.360 only did our parents generation find out that that was 2:42:40.400 --> 2:42:44.640 a lie, but younger generations don't really buy it at all. 2:42:45.160 --> 2:42:48.520 And so what you're really seeing is, I think this 2:42:48.680 --> 2:42:52.480 kind of breakdown socially of the legitimacy of the idea 2:42:52.520 --> 2:42:55.560 of the American dream. Because of all of its problematic 2:42:55.640 --> 2:42:59.600 elements and it's impossibility and its absurdity, and kind of 2:42:59.720 --> 2:43:04.160 this revival of an idea which existed prior to World 2:43:04.200 --> 2:43:07.640 War Two, which was an idea of social revolt, right, 2:43:07.760 --> 2:43:10.680 and it was something we saw manifest during the Great Depression, 2:43:10.760 --> 2:43:12.920 and it's part of the reason why the New Deal exists. 2:43:13.400 --> 2:43:15.360 Was a way to put that down, was a way 2:43:15.400 --> 2:43:18.320 to prevent workers from feeling like the only thing that 2:43:18.400 --> 2:43:20.160 they had in front of them was to take over 2:43:20.200 --> 2:43:22.320 their factories and chow up at the doors of the 2:43:22.440 --> 2:43:25.040 rich and so on, so and so on. Right. But 2:43:25.200 --> 2:43:28.680 that whole idea of the New Deal, that concept that 2:43:28.720 --> 2:43:30.320 the government was going to take care of you and 2:43:30.400 --> 2:43:32.640 the company was going to take care of you, um, 2:43:32.760 --> 2:43:36.120 collapsed in the nineties seventies, but the idea that it 2:43:36.240 --> 2:43:39.960 existed still holds on in some sectors of the of 2:43:40.000 --> 2:43:42.000 America today. I Mean, you see this with the magacrat 2:43:42.000 --> 2:43:45.920 out really heavily, the idea that like nothing systematically needs 2:43:46.000 --> 2:43:49.800 to change, really we just need better outcomes, and we 2:43:50.000 --> 2:43:52.200 just need, you know, in their case, Donald Trump, to 2:43:52.200 --> 2:43:53.880 pay attention to us and give us the things that 2:43:53.959 --> 2:43:58.600 we want. But really, outside of that almost comical patriotism. Um, 2:43:58.720 --> 2:44:01.040 you don't really see a out of adherence to that 2:44:01.240 --> 2:44:04.760 vision any further. And that makes the idea of mass 2:44:04.800 --> 2:44:07.119 refusal not only a lot more possible, but something that's 2:44:07.520 --> 2:44:10.080 actively happening currently. Yeah. And the other parts who I 2:44:10.120 --> 2:44:11.800 want to bring in is that when the New Deal 2:44:11.920 --> 2:44:14.160 is caused, it excluded like black people, right, And so 2:44:14.280 --> 2:44:16.840 that's one way. It's like it's like this constants like 2:44:16.959 --> 2:44:19.560 how white people are like tricked into like submitting to 2:44:19.640 --> 2:44:21.600 the system, and it happens so many times, and they 2:44:21.600 --> 2:44:25.200 still keep saying, trick us again, trick us again. It's like, yeah, 2:44:25.400 --> 2:44:27.840 they're gonna give you ship so you're not upset, and 2:44:27.879 --> 2:44:29.600 then they're going to exclude black people because at the 2:44:29.680 --> 2:44:31.520 end of the day, black people do all the work 2:44:31.640 --> 2:44:33.360 that we need to survive as a society. Do we 2:44:33.400 --> 2:44:35.920 not remember who the essential workers were? Like who does 2:44:36.080 --> 2:44:38.760 the jobs that we need to like live? Like you 2:44:38.840 --> 2:44:41.000 know what I mean? So yeah, you could like be 2:44:41.120 --> 2:44:42.680 out of work and get your little thing, But as 2:44:42.680 --> 2:44:45.160 long as we keep inslating and treating the people who 2:44:45.360 --> 2:44:48.280 make the society run, it's fine. Um. And now that's 2:44:48.280 --> 2:44:50.400 happening to white people too, and they're like Oh no, 2:44:51.200 --> 2:44:54.039 it's not cute, Like it's not fun and quiet quitting, 2:44:54.160 --> 2:44:55.640 you know what I mean, because like they're we are 2:44:55.760 --> 2:44:58.199 like the way black people have been treated is starting 2:44:58.240 --> 2:45:00.160 to happen to white people. And it's just like, I, well, 2:45:00.320 --> 2:45:01.720 this is what I was going to ask you, how 2:45:01.760 --> 2:45:04.520 do we prevent another New Deal situation from happening where 2:45:04.600 --> 2:45:07.320 white workers are tricked again? Like because I feel it's coming. 2:45:07.360 --> 2:45:08.879 I feel like they're going to find a way out 2:45:08.920 --> 2:45:11.120 of this, and like how do we know what if 2:45:11.120 --> 2:45:13.720 it's like bullshit? And like how do we call it out? 2:45:13.800 --> 2:45:15.440 And how do we call it out? That's what Student 2:45:15.520 --> 2:45:18.000 unforgiveness was, right, I mean, like, if we really think 2:45:18.000 --> 2:45:21.400 about it, the democratic parties been built recently since the 2:45:21.440 --> 2:45:25.080 Obama era on this idea of reinstituting elements of the 2:45:25.160 --> 2:45:29.280 New Deal without threatening the existence of capitalism. Um very 2:45:29.360 --> 2:45:31.600 intentionally right. We saw that the Affordable Care Act as 2:45:31.760 --> 2:45:34.000 version of that. Right, So, I mean they are doing 2:45:34.120 --> 2:45:36.440 this and I think what's fascinating about this And this 2:45:36.600 --> 2:45:39.840 is something that radicals in the late sixties pointed out 2:45:39.920 --> 2:45:44.120 often about Lyndon Johnson is they said, you know, liberals 2:45:44.240 --> 2:45:47.240 voted for Lyndon Johnson, and they put all their hopes 2:45:47.320 --> 2:45:49.400 in him, so when he failed them, it didn't have 2:45:49.400 --> 2:45:51.560 anything left to do except hit the streets, right, like 2:45:51.640 --> 2:45:54.200 there was no other option. And I think what we've 2:45:54.240 --> 2:45:57.080 really seen since the Obama era is the collapse of 2:45:57.160 --> 2:45:59.800 the idea that the way that the Democrats do socialists, 2:46:00.000 --> 2:46:02.720 this is in any way going to solve anything. Um, 2:46:02.800 --> 2:46:05.320 that's just going to continue to perpetuate the situation of 2:46:05.400 --> 2:46:09.119 which we need social assistance, right, as opposed to fundamentally 2:46:09.320 --> 2:46:12.000 ending that, which is, you know, the language that they 2:46:12.040 --> 2:46:13.959 put forward when they talk about things like justice, which 2:46:14.000 --> 2:46:17.879 we all know that they don't really have much adherence to. Right. 2:46:18.560 --> 2:46:21.000 But I think until the until the Democratic Party gains 2:46:21.120 --> 2:46:24.080 legitimacy again, if they ever do, which hopefully they don't, 2:46:24.160 --> 2:46:26.000 but if they ever do, yeah, we might be able 2:46:26.040 --> 2:46:29.600 to see this kind of use of reformism, this counterinsurgency again, right, 2:46:29.640 --> 2:46:31.480 which is really what the New Deal was. But really 2:46:31.600 --> 2:46:33.480 until that, I mean we saw in twenty twenty. You know, 2:46:33.600 --> 2:46:36.840 when the legitimacy of the group of people who often 2:46:36.959 --> 2:46:40.000 relies on that technique falls apart, you get uprisings in 2:46:40.040 --> 2:46:42.840 the streets, right, And so we're at kind of a 2:46:42.920 --> 2:46:45.640 different point I think than than maybe just before the 2:46:45.720 --> 2:46:47.879 new Deal kind of came into effect something I want 2:46:47.879 --> 2:46:49.440 to go back to that. I think it's what it was. 2:46:49.560 --> 2:46:52.920 This is the piece where the quote um it's been 2:46:53.040 --> 2:46:57.680 is talking about concealing or like in secret or in 2:46:57.800 --> 2:47:00.520 public or whatever. How there's like a of power in 2:47:00.640 --> 2:47:02.879 terms of like things like general strikes in that sort 2:47:02.920 --> 2:47:05.920 of like invisibility or whatever, in the unpredictability in like 2:47:06.200 --> 2:47:10.360 not going for like building movements based on like visibility 2:47:10.440 --> 2:47:13.000 or public perception or like the media or whatever, but 2:47:13.120 --> 2:47:15.400 actually building them in these ways that can't be seen 2:47:15.520 --> 2:47:18.600 as much and might be concealed. Um. And also this 2:47:18.640 --> 2:47:20.959 thing where people are underestimated, Like it makes me think 2:47:20.959 --> 2:47:25.199 about the revolution in Haiti in the late seventeen hundreds, 2:47:25.280 --> 2:47:26.720 which is you know, a long time ago but still 2:47:26.840 --> 2:47:29.600 very relevant um. And just thinking about how the kind 2:47:29.640 --> 2:47:32.640 of like colonizes in Paris, like couldn't believe the reports 2:47:32.680 --> 2:47:35.680 that were coming out of uprising in Haiti at the 2:47:35.720 --> 2:47:39.000 time because they were so racist basically that they didn't 2:47:39.000 --> 2:47:41.440 believe that black people there who were say could rise 2:47:41.600 --> 2:47:46.200 up and could have that like awareness, gumption or whatever. Um. 2:47:46.400 --> 2:47:48.000 And that gave them a lot of room. You know, 2:47:48.120 --> 2:47:51.240 that was like a position of power for them that like, um, 2:47:51.400 --> 2:47:54.440 they were being underestimated like that much. And I think 2:47:54.480 --> 2:47:57.160 that's something we see with like even though like the 2:47:57.959 --> 2:48:00.280 idea that's gone on from that time really of like 2:48:00.440 --> 2:48:06.160 outside agitator and stuff like in any uprising that we see, Um, yeah, 2:48:06.160 --> 2:48:08.280 that both part people, is that there's something in that 2:48:08.480 --> 2:48:11.840 that is also powerful and it gives possibility. Well, speaking 2:48:11.879 --> 2:48:14.400 of outside agitators, We're going to take a break and 2:48:14.480 --> 2:48:22.000 hear from some of our sponsors right now. In eighteen 2:48:22.160 --> 2:48:25.840 sixty five, on paper, the Civil War ended and the 2:48:26.040 --> 2:48:30.440 Union was saved. A decade later, the North began pulling 2:48:30.480 --> 2:48:33.800 out of the South, marking the end to reconstruction efforts 2:48:34.280 --> 2:48:36.680 in the beginning of both jem Crow and a reign 2:48:36.800 --> 2:48:39.840 of terror and white vigilanism in the form of the 2:48:39.920 --> 2:48:43.640 Ku Klux Klan. The eighteen seventies was also a period 2:48:43.680 --> 2:48:48.840 of increasing poverty, declining wages, rising homelessness, economic depression, and 2:48:48.959 --> 2:48:52.160 exploding class conflict, as the stage was said for the 2:48:52.240 --> 2:48:55.440 Great Upheaval of eighteen seventy seven, a general strike that 2:48:55.600 --> 2:48:59.360 rocked multiple states as workers across lines of color, gender, 2:48:59.440 --> 2:49:02.800 professional an age threatened the very core of the capitalist state. 2:49:03.280 --> 2:49:06.959 As the decades were on, multiple general strikes followed, as 2:49:07.040 --> 2:49:10.360 did a heavy handed government response that evolved to police 2:49:10.360 --> 2:49:13.800 and repress the broader population. Wanting to know more about 2:49:13.840 --> 2:49:16.480 this history of these general strikes in their importance, we 2:49:16.560 --> 2:49:19.320 caught up with labor historian and author Robert O. Vetts, 2:49:19.800 --> 2:49:22.480 author of One Workers Shot Back and We the Elites. 2:49:22.840 --> 2:49:26.040 Ovetts argues that the often violent general strikes of the 2:49:26.120 --> 2:49:29.600 late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds showcase the ability 2:49:29.640 --> 2:49:32.840 of working people it's not only confront the state and capitalism, 2:49:33.080 --> 2:49:38.880 but also organized society on their own terms. Well, general 2:49:38.959 --> 2:49:41.840 strikes have been a rare occurrence, but a very powerful 2:49:42.800 --> 2:49:47.400 example of the way that organized workers and communities can 2:49:47.680 --> 2:49:52.840 transform society and hopefully transcend capitalism. I think we have, 2:49:53.080 --> 2:49:57.240 in the examples of general strikes in US history, an 2:49:57.320 --> 2:50:01.160 example of the potential for getting on capitalism, and so 2:50:01.440 --> 2:50:04.200 that's what makes them really exciting to to study and 2:50:04.280 --> 2:50:07.040 to write about. At A general strike doesn't just happen, 2:50:07.320 --> 2:50:11.120 and we don't actually know exactly why general strikes happen, 2:50:11.200 --> 2:50:14.480 but we know that they don't just happen they're not spontaneous. 2:50:15.040 --> 2:50:18.560 There has to be a groundwork of organizing and engaged 2:50:19.680 --> 2:50:26.800 activists and organizers who are working quietly, sometimes for months 2:50:26.920 --> 2:50:31.119 or years, to to work and organizing their fellow workers 2:50:31.240 --> 2:50:34.800 and to build community connections to support their strike actions. 2:50:35.400 --> 2:50:38.600 And there also has to be a good communication of 2:50:38.760 --> 2:50:42.120 what what the strike is, about what their demands are, 2:50:42.400 --> 2:50:45.879 and the ability to communicate and spread information about that strike. 2:50:46.080 --> 2:50:50.560 Probably the two most important general strikes in US history 2:50:51.440 --> 2:50:55.320 where the one in eighteen seventy seven and the one 2:50:55.640 --> 2:50:58.720 in nine in Seattle. And the one in eighteen seventy 2:50:58.760 --> 2:51:02.080 seven was a general, real strike throughout the railroad industry, 2:51:03.080 --> 2:51:08.720 but it also had this extraordinary um microcosmic, if you will, 2:51:09.160 --> 2:51:11.280 a general strike that was happening in St. Louis and 2:51:11.360 --> 2:51:14.760 East St. Louis. But what was fascinating about that was 2:51:14.879 --> 2:51:17.480 that the groundwork had been late in eighteen seventy seven, 2:51:17.959 --> 2:51:21.400 not by a union actually because the workers had tried 2:51:21.480 --> 2:51:24.279 to form a union, but it was sabotaged, it was infiltrated, 2:51:24.920 --> 2:51:28.160 and they tried to the the organizers tried to call 2:51:28.280 --> 2:51:31.200 off the set date to start the general strike and 2:51:31.240 --> 2:51:34.240 the railroad industry, but the workers wan't on strike anyways, 2:51:34.920 --> 2:51:38.960 and they built their own organization across dozens of different 2:51:39.080 --> 2:51:42.880 railroad companies on their own. In St. Louis, however, there 2:51:42.959 --> 2:51:46.240 was a new left wing party called the Workingmen's Party 2:51:46.959 --> 2:51:52.400 that was formed by various socialists and communists and anarchists 2:51:52.800 --> 2:51:54.560 who had taken over the city and for a few 2:51:54.640 --> 2:51:57.040 days tried to run it. And that was that was 2:51:57.120 --> 2:51:59.960 probably closer to what happened in Seattle in nine where 2:52:01.200 --> 2:52:06.199 over a hundred local unions actually pressured the Labor Council 2:52:06.440 --> 2:52:09.080 to call a general strike, and so that was kind 2:52:09.080 --> 2:52:12.560 of built up from below through formal unions. But then 2:52:12.600 --> 2:52:16.640 it went far beyond anything that those AFL affiliated unions 2:52:16.760 --> 2:52:19.879 were willing to really do. The St. Louis General strike 2:52:19.959 --> 2:52:22.760 in eighteen seventy seven that I was just mentioning. Uh, 2:52:22.920 --> 2:52:29.039 there was a multi racial coalition of worker organizers who 2:52:29.440 --> 2:52:33.400 literally took charge of the strike. There had been a 2:52:33.520 --> 2:52:36.800 strike committee form and those that strike committee was dominated 2:52:36.879 --> 2:52:41.000 by the Workingmen's Party activists, but the workers themselves started 2:52:41.040 --> 2:52:44.920 to organize outside the confines of the strike coordinating committee 2:52:45.520 --> 2:52:48.720 and it was very multiracial. They started marching on one 2:52:48.840 --> 2:52:52.160 workplace and another. UH. There was some evidence that there 2:52:52.200 --> 2:52:54.040 were some women that were involved in it, so there 2:52:54.080 --> 2:52:58.519 were strong ties to the community and various households and neighborhoods. 2:52:59.240 --> 2:53:02.160 But they marched on one workplace to another and spread 2:53:02.240 --> 2:53:04.440 the strike, and within a couple of days much of 2:53:04.480 --> 2:53:07.280 the city had been shut down. And the irony of 2:53:07.360 --> 2:53:12.160 this was that the strike coordinating Council actually freaked out 2:53:12.520 --> 2:53:16.240 about how multi racial of the crowds were that were 2:53:16.240 --> 2:53:20.400 shutting down these workplaces and leaving and leaving work um 2:53:20.640 --> 2:53:26.400 and internally they became very divided based on their their racism, 2:53:26.879 --> 2:53:29.280 and there were some members of the coordinating committee that 2:53:29.320 --> 2:53:34.680 were extreme racial supremacists and didn't want the strike to continue, 2:53:34.760 --> 2:53:37.320 and they debated how to stop the strike, how to 2:53:37.440 --> 2:53:40.520 call it off, and but the reality was that they 2:53:40.560 --> 2:53:43.400 had lost control of it to the workers outside of 2:53:43.600 --> 2:53:47.880 the committee, And when it became clear that the militias 2:53:48.400 --> 2:53:51.480 were being called into St. Louis to attack the city, 2:53:52.480 --> 2:53:56.360 the workers marched on the meeting hall where the strike 2:53:56.400 --> 2:54:00.560 coordinating Council was and demanded that they appropriate money to 2:54:01.200 --> 2:54:04.640 acquire arms to defend the city. But they refused to 2:54:04.760 --> 2:54:08.800 do that, and they eventually tried to call off the strike. UH. 2:54:08.920 --> 2:54:10.880 So that lasted a few days, and race was a 2:54:11.000 --> 2:54:14.640 huge factor in why the strikes spread and how the 2:54:14.680 --> 2:54:16.400 workers took over the city, but it was also a 2:54:16.480 --> 2:54:19.080 factor in how it was actually killed by those who 2:54:19.080 --> 2:54:22.960 were supposedly quote unquote running the actual general stripe. In 2:54:23.080 --> 2:54:25.800 the case of Seattle, we don't know as much about 2:54:25.959 --> 2:54:29.240 the racial composition of the workers, UM, but we do 2:54:29.400 --> 2:54:33.000 know that it was very generalized throughout the entire city. UM. 2:54:33.200 --> 2:54:36.480 And the reason we know this is because the the 2:54:36.840 --> 2:54:40.119 General Strike Committee, which was formed by the Labor Council, 2:54:40.840 --> 2:54:44.240 had representatives of every union, and they took care of 2:54:44.560 --> 2:54:48.120 many of the reproductive needs of the population. For example, 2:54:48.160 --> 2:54:51.720 they kept the hospital running. Uh. They set up free 2:54:51.959 --> 2:54:57.160 kitchens where people could eat UM. They as well as 2:54:57.800 --> 2:55:00.240 setting up and publishing a newspaper that came out every 2:55:00.280 --> 2:55:03.360 day during the five days of the strike. So they 2:55:03.480 --> 2:55:07.040 took care of also of public safety. UM. So what 2:55:07.240 --> 2:55:09.800 was extraordinary about the Seattle General Strike is how it 2:55:09.879 --> 2:55:13.000 incorporated many of these issues that we would say is 2:55:13.000 --> 2:55:17.320 about gender and reproductive needs of the population. They didn't 2:55:17.360 --> 2:55:20.520 just shut down the workplace. They actually took over the 2:55:20.600 --> 2:55:23.920 city and reorganized society to meet the needs of humanity. 2:55:24.240 --> 2:55:30.119 The seventy seven strike actually resulted in what I show 2:55:30.240 --> 2:55:31.920 in a lot of detail in my first book, when 2:55:31.959 --> 2:55:38.199 workers shot back, how the state and capital reorganized themselves 2:55:38.280 --> 2:55:41.640 in order to um be able to respond a lot 2:55:41.760 --> 2:55:46.960 quicker to self organized workers and strikes, and especially general strikes. 2:55:47.480 --> 2:55:51.280 For example, the modern police came into being in many 2:55:51.440 --> 2:55:53.960 cities as a result of the eighteen seventy seven strike, 2:55:54.120 --> 2:55:58.040 because up until that point, the police were um, if 2:55:58.120 --> 2:56:00.800 you will, they were kind of like give workers. They 2:56:00.879 --> 2:56:04.440 worked on quote unquote tips or bribes. Uh. There were 2:56:04.560 --> 2:56:08.040 very few cities that had any municipal police, and if 2:56:08.080 --> 2:56:10.400 they did, they had very small forces. And so that 2:56:10.520 --> 2:56:13.040 was one reason why the strikes spread so quickly around 2:56:13.080 --> 2:56:16.240 the country over that that ten day or so period 2:56:16.800 --> 2:56:20.959 in July of eighteen seventy seven. Uh So, modern policing 2:56:21.040 --> 2:56:24.000 really came into being. Also, as you mentioned, the militias 2:56:24.760 --> 2:56:29.160 were transformed into what became the National Guard. The militias 2:56:29.200 --> 2:56:32.720 also proved to be undependable because they were mostly composed 2:56:32.760 --> 2:56:36.760 of working men, and if they were called out locally, 2:56:36.959 --> 2:56:39.120 they knew the strikers, and in fact, some of them 2:56:39.160 --> 2:56:41.760 were strikers and didn't even show up for their militia duty. 2:56:42.280 --> 2:56:46.040 So militias were essentially de emphasized and they were replaced 2:56:46.080 --> 2:56:50.039 by a state controlled National Guard UM. As a result 2:56:50.120 --> 2:56:53.240 of the passage of a new federal law UH, the 2:56:53.800 --> 2:56:58.480 military was also funded on a permanent basis. One reason 2:56:58.520 --> 2:57:01.240 why the military was so slow to be UH to 2:57:01.360 --> 2:57:03.880 be deployed to put down the strike in eighteen seventy 2:57:03.920 --> 2:57:06.480 seven was most of the soldiers were out in the 2:57:06.560 --> 2:57:11.120 West fighting essentially a genocidal war against the Plans native peoples, 2:57:11.600 --> 2:57:15.039 and so there weren't enough military around. And also Congress 2:57:15.080 --> 2:57:17.120 hadn't funded the military that you believe it or not, 2:57:17.680 --> 2:57:23.119 and so the military was unfunded and undersized. Another consequence 2:57:23.160 --> 2:57:26.560 of this was that many corporations started to work together 2:57:27.440 --> 2:57:30.520 to create their own you could say, mutual aid to 2:57:30.680 --> 2:57:34.440 protect one another. They started forming employer groups in order 2:57:34.480 --> 2:57:37.640 to be able to respond at a more coordinated method UM. 2:57:37.800 --> 2:57:40.320 So you started to see corporations cooperati as a result 2:57:40.360 --> 2:57:42.640 of this. In fact, many of the technologies that we 2:57:42.879 --> 2:57:45.320 take for granted today were a result of the eighteen 2:57:45.400 --> 2:57:49.720 seventy seven railroad strike. For example, UH, the telegraph was 2:57:49.800 --> 2:57:52.840 installed in many rich people's homes as a way to 2:57:52.920 --> 2:57:55.760 be able to contact the police directly. Those lines went 2:57:55.840 --> 2:57:59.040 directly to the police UH. The so called patty wagon 2:57:59.680 --> 2:58:02.680 UH was also invented as a result of the seven 2:58:02.720 --> 2:58:06.400 strike as a weapon against large crowds UM. So there 2:58:06.440 --> 2:58:09.680 were a number of m of new technologies that were 2:58:09.720 --> 2:58:13.480 implemented UH and became more widespread as results of that strike. 2:58:14.440 --> 2:58:18.119 In Seattle also UH, the workers were prepared. They had 2:58:18.280 --> 2:58:23.199 known their history, and they formed a self defense group 2:58:23.920 --> 2:58:26.400 composed primarily of War War one veterans who had just 2:58:26.520 --> 2:58:30.360 come back from More one UM and they patrolled the 2:58:30.440 --> 2:58:34.080 city and they did things like shutdown bars because they 2:58:34.120 --> 2:58:37.040 didn't want UH people to get drunk and start fighting 2:58:37.080 --> 2:58:41.080 and that would be a justification for the National Guard 2:58:41.120 --> 2:58:44.360 to be called in. But the police started to essentially 2:58:44.480 --> 2:58:47.720 line up outside the boundaries of the city and they 2:58:47.800 --> 2:58:52.680 waited for reinforcements threatenings essentially to invade Seattle before the 2:58:53.160 --> 2:58:55.600 general strike was called off. But the workers were prepared. 2:58:56.080 --> 2:59:01.800 They did carry out and organized self defense against that eventuality. 2:59:02.320 --> 2:59:07.520 The Oakland General Strike was part of an extraordinary wave 2:59:07.720 --> 2:59:10.280 of post War two strikes that were happening just like 2:59:10.360 --> 2:59:13.200 after World War One and Actually, during World War One, 2:59:13.280 --> 2:59:15.760 there was a wave of strikes. UH. The same thing 2:59:15.840 --> 2:59:18.440 happened when a lot of soldiers started coming back from 2:59:18.480 --> 2:59:24.320 War two. Unemployment shot up, women were sent as sent packing. UH, 2:59:24.600 --> 2:59:28.640 prices exploded, there was a shortage of housing UH, and 2:59:29.240 --> 2:59:34.680 workers started to organize and U. During that few year period, UH, 2:59:34.840 --> 2:59:38.960 there was a general strike in the steel sector and 2:59:39.080 --> 2:59:42.320 Truman threatened to take over some of the larger companies, 2:59:42.400 --> 2:59:46.280 and he was repelled by the Supreme Court. But as 2:59:46.320 --> 2:59:53.280 a consequence of this UH, this upsurge of class struggle UH, 2:59:53.360 --> 2:59:56.840 the Congress passed a Staff Hardly Act, which still governs 2:59:57.000 --> 3:00:01.640 US today. For workers who started organized in the private sector, 3:00:03.000 --> 3:00:05.560 where they're under the National Labor Relations Act. That Taff 3:00:05.640 --> 3:00:08.440 Hartley Act was an amendment to that law. One of 3:00:08.520 --> 3:00:11.680 the most important things it did was a banned so 3:00:11.840 --> 3:00:15.960 called secondary strikes, which means that if workers go on 3:00:16.080 --> 3:00:22.800 strikes somewhere, workers can't strike in solidarity UM, and particularly 3:00:23.160 --> 3:00:25.959 if they have a union contract with their employer, would 3:00:25.959 --> 3:00:29.119 be illegal. Now, there are some workers that are exempted 3:00:29.160 --> 3:00:31.840 from that, for example, transport workers because they're under a 3:00:32.000 --> 3:00:35.760 different federal law. They're under the Railway Labor Act. Which 3:00:35.840 --> 3:00:37.680 is part of the reason why we almost just saw 3:00:37.920 --> 3:00:41.160 rail railroad general strike before the Democrats killed it a 3:00:41.240 --> 3:00:46.280 few weeks ago. But the Taffed Hartley Act continues to 3:00:46.760 --> 3:00:50.320 serve as a means of suppressing and repressing the ability 3:00:50.360 --> 3:00:53.680 not only of workers but organized unions in their local workplaces, 3:00:53.959 --> 3:00:58.400 but to actually engage in a general strike. So again, 3:00:58.440 --> 3:01:01.200 we've been listening to Robert Ovette's author of One Workers 3:01:01.240 --> 3:01:04.200 Shot Back and We the Elites just a few key 3:01:04.320 --> 3:01:07.520 takeaways from that discussion. We see various examples in these 3:01:07.560 --> 3:01:11.280 general strikes of tensions developing between more radical elements and 3:01:11.480 --> 3:01:15.960 reformist ones that want to contain revolutionary expressions and also 3:01:16.120 --> 3:01:20.400 stop workers from really taking over society. We also see 3:01:20.520 --> 3:01:24.880 positive examples of these strikes spilling out across lines of race, gender, 3:01:24.959 --> 3:01:27.720 and age and profession. One thing we see, of course, 3:01:27.800 --> 3:01:30.880 again and again is the state responding to these strikes 3:01:30.920 --> 3:01:33.760 with the combination of militia's police and of course the 3:01:33.879 --> 3:01:36.800 National Guard. And finally, many of these strikes lead to 3:01:36.879 --> 3:01:40.240 the passing of legislation, which is interesting because far from 3:01:40.480 --> 3:01:44.800 this sort of progressive arc towards justice, instead we see constantly, 3:01:44.800 --> 3:01:47.800 again and again the state either reforming itself to become 3:01:48.000 --> 3:01:52.360 more oppressive, engage in surveillance, reconstitute the police in a 3:01:52.440 --> 3:01:56.880 certain way, reconstitute the military, or sometimes bring the workers 3:01:57.120 --> 3:02:01.080 into the superstructure of the state and rogers the better man. Yeah, 3:02:01.120 --> 3:02:03.560 I totally agree. It's not getting better. They're just being 3:02:03.640 --> 3:02:06.000 smart about it. They're like like little like slimy balls. 3:02:06.040 --> 3:02:08.840 They're just like reshaping as they need to shape and 3:02:08.920 --> 3:02:11.960 form to like get workers. So like when you were 3:02:11.959 --> 3:02:13.680 reading that, it felt like a writer's were It felt 3:02:13.720 --> 3:02:17.040 like a movie of like how do we control these people? 3:02:17.600 --> 3:02:19.080 You know what I mean? It felt like it was 3:02:19.160 --> 3:02:21.320 like this like checker where they're like, oh, they make 3:02:21.360 --> 3:02:23.039 their move, we make their move. And it's like it's 3:02:23.040 --> 3:02:24.760 like the state as a tool, and like you see 3:02:24.800 --> 3:02:26.600 that because it's like it's a tool of the elite, 3:02:26.640 --> 3:02:28.240 and you see that people laws that are passed, and 3:02:28.320 --> 3:02:30.760 like when they're passed, like because when black and white 3:02:30.800 --> 3:02:33.600 people form them, there's violence, like a lot of state violence, 3:02:33.640 --> 3:02:36.240 like extreme state violence, because it's like they want to 3:02:36.280 --> 3:02:38.200 remind us like that's bad, you don't do that, and 3:02:38.280 --> 3:02:40.440 then they'll do stuff to play get workers like white 3:02:40.480 --> 3:02:42.920 workers too, Like with a Wagner Act, like with unionization, 3:02:43.000 --> 3:02:44.640 like a lot of black people were excluded from that. 3:02:45.040 --> 3:02:47.600 Maybe just maybe things aren't getting better like they're telling 3:02:47.680 --> 3:02:50.240 you they are, things are just reshaping. That's something else 3:02:50.280 --> 3:02:52.320 I'm thinking about as he was talking, and just like 3:02:52.520 --> 3:02:54.680 from from that history that it is like we hear 3:02:54.760 --> 3:02:58.040 that like the creativity of the state with their oppression 3:02:58.160 --> 3:03:00.560 or whatever it's going on, but also how people keep 3:03:00.640 --> 3:03:02.680 coming back with like new and different things, you know, 3:03:03.520 --> 3:03:06.800 like actually takes a lot of repression to stop these things. 3:03:06.840 --> 3:03:09.280 Like if you look at what happened STUBBN or whatever, 3:03:09.680 --> 3:03:11.320 it's like they kill quite a lot of people to 3:03:11.400 --> 3:03:13.640 stop that strike wave and stuff, you know, like it's 3:03:13.680 --> 3:03:16.440 really heavy handed. And then but still a lot of 3:03:16.480 --> 3:03:18.800 strikes happen after that, and it leads up to Haymarket 3:03:18.920 --> 3:03:22.039 in a six or whatever. And I just think, again, 3:03:22.120 --> 3:03:24.960 again we seem like repression, but then we see it 3:03:25.120 --> 3:03:28.600 flowering again. And I think that what we're seeing like 3:03:28.800 --> 3:03:32.440 right now maybe is like a sort of creative non union. 3:03:32.440 --> 3:03:34.120 That when we're talking at the beginning about people just 3:03:34.160 --> 3:03:37.320 saying general strike, general strike, it's like whatever happens next 3:03:37.320 --> 3:03:40.080 will be something different. What we're seeing is we're seeing 3:03:40.120 --> 3:03:43.040 over this time the mechanism of counterinsurgency get a lot 3:03:43.040 --> 3:03:46.880 more complex. Right, So in the eighteen seventies, it's let's 3:03:46.920 --> 3:03:49.160 get some guns and force everyone to go back to work. 3:03:49.600 --> 3:03:53.080 But now it's why don't we get nonprofits to fund these, 3:03:53.280 --> 3:03:56.520 you know, public programs. Why don't we have community policing 3:03:56.640 --> 3:03:59.360 and copy with cops and and so you saw during 3:03:59.520 --> 3:04:01.680 the Georgia a uprising, as you saw a lot of 3:04:01.800 --> 3:04:04.119 this like, well, I know that y'all want to cut 3:04:04.160 --> 3:04:06.800 funding from police departments, but really what you should do 3:04:06.879 --> 3:04:08.520 is you should come to our budget meeting and we 3:04:08.560 --> 3:04:10.160 could put it in the city budget and we should 3:04:10.200 --> 3:04:11.680 talk about it that way. And that was the way 3:04:11.720 --> 3:04:14.280 to force the resistance in the streets back into a 3:04:14.360 --> 3:04:17.600 mechanism that's able to be more easily controlled. Um. But 3:04:17.760 --> 3:04:20.760 we see in like rust belt cities, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, places 3:04:20.840 --> 3:04:23.840 like this, the way that the wealthy at this period 3:04:23.879 --> 3:04:27.000 of time, the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, we're 3:04:27.040 --> 3:04:30.320 already talking about trying to change entire environments. Right, So 3:04:30.480 --> 3:04:33.840 like surveillance, nonprofit activity like that changes the whole environments. 3:04:33.879 --> 3:04:37.040 It's not just about a single individual objective but it 3:04:37.120 --> 3:04:40.440 shapes an entire reality in these rust belt cities during 3:04:40.480 --> 3:04:42.240 that period of time. I mean, you have a lot 3:04:42.280 --> 3:04:44.120 of like free art museums and stuff like this that 3:04:44.200 --> 3:04:47.160 are world class institutions. But if you look at their 3:04:47.240 --> 3:04:50.520 charters and actually look at them closely, the reason those 3:04:50.560 --> 3:04:54.400 institutions exist was to quote inculturate the working class. And 3:04:54.480 --> 3:04:58.480 it was all about like Rockefeller very specifically Cleveland money 3:04:58.560 --> 3:05:01.600 to these institutions so working class wouldn't kill them, like 3:05:01.640 --> 3:05:03.480 wouldn't murder them. And it was in the middle of 3:05:04.360 --> 3:05:08.360 really intense anti capitalist activity in those cities, right and 3:05:08.520 --> 3:05:11.680 so we can watch the development of those techniques right now. 3:05:11.800 --> 3:05:14.160 It takes the form of defunding the police campaigns and 3:05:14.240 --> 3:05:17.560 things like that as opposed abolitionism. Um it takes the 3:05:17.640 --> 3:05:20.560 form of trying to find softer means of policing, like 3:05:20.879 --> 3:05:24.080 surveillance as opposed to just having clubs and guns and 3:05:24.160 --> 3:05:26.959 stuff um. Or in the case of the Democratic Party 3:05:26.959 --> 3:05:29.160 of the Smart Border, when they talked about the smart Border, 3:05:29.200 --> 3:05:31.680 which is essentially putting a bunch of sensors and cameras 3:05:31.720 --> 3:05:33.640 in the desert to try and catch people crossing the border, 3:05:33.959 --> 3:05:38.480 that somehow less repressive by shaping the entire space around 3:05:38.600 --> 3:05:43.320 surveillance that's somehow less repressive than just having police. And 3:05:43.440 --> 3:05:45.720 they use that idea that if they're not in a 3:05:45.840 --> 3:05:47.920 uniform and they don't have a weapon right in front 3:05:47.959 --> 3:05:51.160 of them or aren't human, that somehow there's some benefit 3:05:51.480 --> 3:05:53.760 that emerges and somehow the stage is retreating a little 3:05:53.760 --> 3:05:56.840 bit when in actuality thinks like body cameras, stuff like 3:05:56.879 --> 3:05:59.680 that just increase the ability of the state to have visibility, 3:06:00.120 --> 3:06:02.320 just increases the number of cameras on the street, and 3:06:02.440 --> 3:06:05.280 increases the ability of the state to control information and 3:06:05.440 --> 3:06:08.200 decide what information gets out. Um. These are all things 3:06:08.240 --> 3:06:10.480 which have reinforced the power of the state, but they 3:06:10.560 --> 3:06:14.120 get portrayed as you know, forms of as reforms that 3:06:14.160 --> 3:06:16.720 are supposed to solve these huge social problems that people 3:06:16.800 --> 3:06:19.480 keep raising up. Well, speaking of things rich people give 3:06:19.520 --> 3:06:21.920 us so we won't kill them. We're going to now 3:06:23.080 --> 3:06:30.720 here for some from some of our sponsors. So far, 3:06:30.920 --> 3:06:33.320 we've talked about general strikes that are largely over a 3:06:33.400 --> 3:06:35.560 hundred years old. But now we're going to turn and 3:06:35.640 --> 3:06:38.040 look at two examples of general strikes that took place 3:06:38.120 --> 3:06:42.480 within the last twenty years. In December of two thousand five. 3:06:43.000 --> 3:06:47.000 Republicans passed in the House of Representatives. HR four four 3:06:47.160 --> 3:06:51.720 three seven, also known as the Border Protection, Anti Terrorism, 3:06:52.200 --> 3:06:55.920 and Illegal Immigration Control Act of two thousand five, a 3:06:56.040 --> 3:07:00.320 proposed piece of legislation that's as jaconian as it sounds. Bill, 3:07:00.440 --> 3:07:03.199 as the A. C. L. You wrote, pushed to quote, 3:07:03.280 --> 3:07:08.320 militarize the border, give extraordinary powers to low level immigration officials, 3:07:08.760 --> 3:07:12.600 allowing law enforcement to expel without hearing anyone believed to 3:07:12.680 --> 3:07:17.879 be undocumented and detained non citizens and definitely without meaningful review. 3:07:18.480 --> 3:07:22.160 The bill also sought to levy criminal penalties against anyone 3:07:22.240 --> 3:07:26.320 that engage in assisting someone that was undocumented, which threatened 3:07:26.320 --> 3:07:31.120 both employers of undocumented workers, as well as union organizers, teachers, clergy, 3:07:31.560 --> 3:07:35.040 and beyond, Foreshadowing the Trump presidency. It also called for 3:07:35.240 --> 3:07:38.560 hundreds of miles of border fence and authorized state and 3:07:38.680 --> 3:07:42.879 local law enforcement to enforce federal immigration law. As George 3:07:42.959 --> 3:07:46.600 Campas wrote in the See Say Poty Insurrection, the bill 3:07:46.680 --> 3:07:50.160 would transform almost every person in the United States into 3:07:50.280 --> 3:07:56.200 either undocumented violators, police enforcers, or classify them as criminally complicit. 3:07:56.480 --> 3:08:00.240 The authoritarian nature of the legislation and the existential threat 3:08:00.280 --> 3:08:03.039 and represented pushed many a document of workers to take 3:08:03.120 --> 3:08:06.320 action and organized on a mass scale. As Kemphus wrote, 3:08:06.600 --> 3:08:09.840 starting in March of two thousand, six marches and more 3:08:09.959 --> 3:08:12.920 than half a million people overwhelmed the centers of major 3:08:13.000 --> 3:08:18.480 cities like Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, and Dallas halteing business, 3:08:18.520 --> 3:08:22.119 while there were literally hundreds of smaller gatherings and many 3:08:22.240 --> 3:08:26.000 other smaller cities. There were dozens of student walkouts and 3:08:26.120 --> 3:08:29.199 high schools around the country, as well as a nationwide 3:08:29.240 --> 3:08:33.200 immigrant general strike called for on Maybee that was heated 3:08:33.240 --> 3:08:37.480 by hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of workers, including truck drivers, 3:08:37.560 --> 3:08:40.480 who shut down the port of Los Angeles. Despite a 3:08:40.520 --> 3:08:44.080 series of large scale immigration raids aimed at derailing the movement, 3:08:44.280 --> 3:08:47.199 millions took the streets and carried out strikes, all outside 3:08:47.200 --> 3:08:50.040 of the direction of Union in Democratic Party leadership. The 3:08:50.120 --> 3:08:52.920 mass protests and strikes helped revive May Day as a 3:08:53.040 --> 3:08:55.640 day of labor and worker action in the United States. 3:08:56.200 --> 3:08:59.640 Installed for over a decade. Right wing attacks on immigrants 3:09:00.040 --> 3:09:02.920 are four four, three seven failed to pass, in large 3:09:03.000 --> 3:09:05.680 part due to the mass opposition and faced on the streets. 3:09:06.120 --> 3:09:08.880 In the spring of two thousand six direct action, as 3:09:08.959 --> 3:09:12.000 they say, gets the goods. And what's fascinating about the 3:09:12.040 --> 3:09:15.039 two thousand six strike is that it was organized outside 3:09:15.320 --> 3:09:19.440 of established unions and political parties, especially Democratic Party, had 3:09:19.480 --> 3:09:22.480 a key youth wing to it. We saw lots of 3:09:22.520 --> 3:09:26.360 student walkouts. It was able to seriously push back against 3:09:26.440 --> 3:09:30.400 this draconian wave of anti immigrant legislation, and that worked 3:09:30.480 --> 3:09:33.400 for around ten years. And it seems like we don't 3:09:33.480 --> 3:09:36.920 reference this strike enough and talk about how important it was. 3:09:37.520 --> 3:09:39.600 I was in a junior in high school when kids 3:09:39.640 --> 3:09:41.960 were walking out, but this is how I sleep. I was. 3:09:42.120 --> 3:09:44.800 I didn't walk out, and I just remember thinking, oh 3:09:44.879 --> 3:09:48.840 my god, those kids are so courageous and they're such badasses, 3:09:49.280 --> 3:09:50.920 and it's so cool that they're doing that, and I 3:09:51.000 --> 3:09:53.240 wish that I could. Well that law was like he 3:09:53.360 --> 3:09:56.120 should have slave Law Act, like straight up. They were 3:09:56.200 --> 3:09:59.640 just trying to like re install slavery among people who 3:09:59.680 --> 3:10:01.640 were not out here documented like you know what I mean. 3:10:01.840 --> 3:10:03.600 They were trying to create a situation where people were 3:10:03.600 --> 3:10:05.280 still working dest bread, they were going to work for 3:10:05.360 --> 3:10:07.320 slave wages. And I'll say this about New York City, 3:10:07.520 --> 3:10:10.880 there's a huge like immigrant population, a huge undocumented work 3:10:10.920 --> 3:10:12.440 of population that we didn't even I mean, I didn't 3:10:12.440 --> 3:10:14.800 know about until COVID hit. Like, there's a lot of 3:10:14.879 --> 3:10:17.480 people who are keeping the economy alive that are not 3:10:17.600 --> 3:10:20.600 even counted, and they pay for our existence. As we're 3:10:20.640 --> 3:10:22.480 talking about those, two things that always come up for 3:10:22.560 --> 3:10:25.840 me from talking about these strikes. First is, you know, 3:10:25.959 --> 3:10:29.400 the entire concept of quote immigration reform as it was 3:10:29.440 --> 3:10:31.600 being talked about by Republicans at the time and then 3:10:31.720 --> 3:10:35.359 later accelerated under Trump. This idea of border walls started 3:10:35.400 --> 3:10:38.240 with the American Nazi Party, right, Like, this was an 3:10:38.280 --> 3:10:41.720 American Nazi Party policy proposal in the nineteen fifties and 3:10:41.840 --> 3:10:45.840 sixties that got picked up through white supremacist movements, through 3:10:45.879 --> 3:10:48.680 people like George Wallace and sort of imported into the 3:10:48.720 --> 3:10:54.200 Republican Party. Yeah, because it's Nazis. I think the other 3:10:54.320 --> 3:10:57.400 thing that was really inspiring about that movement I was, 3:10:57.600 --> 3:11:00.800 you know, out of college at that point watching this happen. 3:11:01.080 --> 3:11:04.320 It was one of the first times I saw mass 3:11:04.480 --> 3:11:09.000 decentralized action happened across the entire country at that scale 3:11:09.240 --> 3:11:12.560 that sort of hit and apex like during these days, right, 3:11:12.680 --> 3:11:15.080 the sort of period of time in which people kind 3:11:15.080 --> 3:11:17.400 of took it upon themselves to shut the whole country down, 3:11:17.480 --> 3:11:19.520 And it just shows what can happen when community is 3:11:19.640 --> 3:11:23.360 organized as communities of people and not as spectators in 3:11:23.480 --> 3:11:27.080 some sort of removed symbolic political action, but actually become 3:11:27.120 --> 3:11:29.320 immediate protagonists and what's going on in front of them. 3:11:29.400 --> 3:11:31.920 Another thing I think is really interesting about this is 3:11:32.000 --> 3:11:34.120 that it was such a massive response and that part 3:11:34.200 --> 3:11:38.320 of what the Act was saying was that you could 3:11:38.400 --> 3:11:42.600 be like prosecutor for assisting someone who's undocumented. That I 3:11:42.720 --> 3:11:44.040 think it like goes back to what we've be talking 3:11:44.040 --> 3:11:46.080 about with the other strikes stuff, is like the government 3:11:46.200 --> 3:11:49.760 is very aware that like solidarity between people is dangerous 3:11:49.920 --> 3:11:52.240 basically and tries to letisate it. And we see, you know, 3:11:52.320 --> 3:11:54.320 after that strike in you know, the strike way of 3:11:54.320 --> 3:11:56.000 in eighteen seventy seven, you start to get all those 3:11:56.000 --> 3:11:59.160 anti conspiracy laws and stuff because that's a threat. And 3:11:59.280 --> 3:12:00.959 I love it in the sense it's like they put 3:12:01.080 --> 3:12:04.200 out and it gets like, um, such a massive response 3:12:04.240 --> 3:12:07.080 against it that people really like win basically and that 3:12:07.280 --> 3:12:09.400 last for like a decade. Yeah. I think that goes 3:12:09.480 --> 3:12:12.920 back to the idea of white supremacy historically in the 3:12:13.000 --> 3:12:16.520 United States being this system of how people described it, 3:12:16.600 --> 3:12:21.959 of carrots and sticks, of offering incentives to be included 3:12:22.120 --> 3:12:25.200 in this bracket of whiteness, but then also saying, oh, 3:12:25.200 --> 3:12:27.360 and if you help that kid at school, we're gonna 3:12:27.520 --> 3:12:30.040 throw you in jail along with them, which again is 3:12:30.160 --> 3:12:33.640 a good reason to celebrate these strikes because they were 3:12:33.680 --> 3:12:37.000 effective in beating back this legislation, but also pointing out 3:12:37.280 --> 3:12:41.959 that everyone should have been taking part in these actions. Well, hey, 3:12:42.040 --> 3:12:43.880 thanks for tuning in. That's going to wrap up the 3:12:43.959 --> 3:12:47.320 first episode. We encourage you to follow us going down 3:12:47.600 --> 3:12:51.720 on masses on at I g D Underscore News and 3:12:52.680 --> 3:12:55.440 we hope you enjoyed us taking over It could happen here. 3:12:55.600 --> 3:12:57.960 We're gonna be back tomorrow. We're going to continue to 3:12:58.040 --> 3:13:00.360 look at general strikes. We're gonna do a deep dive 3:13:00.480 --> 3:13:04.080 into Occupy Oakland that kicked off in two thousand eleven, 3:13:04.680 --> 3:13:07.680 and we're gonna look at how a citywide general strike 3:13:07.800 --> 3:13:11.920 grew out of the Oakland Commune after the police nearly 3:13:12.160 --> 3:13:15.520 murdered in Iraq War veteran and thanks for tuning in. 3:13:31.280 --> 3:13:34.480 Welcome back once again, you're listening to It could happen 3:13:34.560 --> 3:13:36.920 here with the crew from It's Going Down Taking Over. 3:13:37.440 --> 3:13:39.520 This is our second show and we'll be doing a 3:13:39.600 --> 3:13:42.160 total of five episodes throughout the month of January. So 3:13:42.240 --> 3:13:44.279 if you like what you here, please let the amazing 3:13:44.320 --> 3:13:47.440 folks at cool Zone Media know. Yesterday we began by 3:13:47.480 --> 3:13:50.560 looking at general strikes in US history, starting with the 3:13:50.640 --> 3:13:54.240 mass plantation strike during the American Civil War. We spoke 3:13:54.320 --> 3:13:57.880 with labor historian Robert Ovetts about the revolutionary and bloody 3:13:57.959 --> 3:14:00.360 history of general strikes in the United States, and we 3:14:00.480 --> 3:14:03.119 also looked at the immigrant general strike in two thousand 3:14:03.240 --> 3:14:07.320 six that successfully beat back drew Conian legislation that sought 3:14:07.360 --> 3:14:10.680 to further militarize the border and attack and documented people. 3:14:11.000 --> 3:14:12.840 On today's show, we're going to be looking at a 3:14:12.879 --> 3:14:15.960 general strike that was called for by Occupy Oakland, which 3:14:16.000 --> 3:14:20.040 took place on November two. Occupy Oakland was part of 3:14:20.120 --> 3:14:23.000 the much larger occupy movement that beginning New York with 3:14:23.120 --> 3:14:25.960 the occupation of Zukkati Park, but was seen as the 3:14:26.080 --> 3:14:29.120 radical focal point for the growing struggle, starting as an 3:14:29.160 --> 3:14:32.160 occupation on October tent in front of Oakland City Hall 3:14:32.360 --> 3:14:36.720 named Oscar Grant Plaza. On October twenty Iraq War veteran 3:14:36.800 --> 3:14:39.280 Scott Olsen was nearly killed after being shot with a 3:14:39.320 --> 3:14:43.640 police projectile during clashes between police and demonstrators as law 3:14:43.760 --> 3:14:47.400 enforcement attempted to evict the growing Oakland commune. Following the 3:14:47.480 --> 3:14:51.120 Olsen shooting, thousands were occupied Oscar Grant Plaza and the 3:14:51.240 --> 3:14:54.120 general strike was called for a week later. Upwards of 3:14:54.200 --> 3:14:57.680 one hundred thousand people took part in the strike's associated actions, 3:14:58.120 --> 3:15:02.119 which included mass marches, a large anti capitalist black block 3:15:02.200 --> 3:15:05.120 which broke bank windows, and the shutting down of the 3:15:05.200 --> 3:15:09.080 Port of Oakland, with upwards of one thousand people participating. 3:15:09.800 --> 3:15:11.680 Well before we hear from our guests on the subject, 3:15:11.720 --> 3:15:13.520 I wanted to talk a little bit about the occupy 3:15:13.600 --> 3:15:16.359 movement and Occupy Oakland and why it was so important. 3:15:16.440 --> 3:15:20.039 The occupy movement itself grew amidst this growing anger over 3:15:20.080 --> 3:15:23.160 the economic crisis, but also this fading belief and the 3:15:23.280 --> 3:15:26.720 hope and change promised by Obama. While naturally it seemed 3:15:26.760 --> 3:15:29.160 to kind of sort of come out of nowhere, there 3:15:29.200 --> 3:15:32.760 were certainly things that really helped influence it. Naturally, there 3:15:32.840 --> 3:15:36.440 was the occupation by Chicago workers at the Republic Windows 3:15:36.480 --> 3:15:40.120 and Doors Factory, which signaled a real turning point, as 3:15:40.160 --> 3:15:43.120 well as the occupation of the Wisconsin State capital in 3:15:43.160 --> 3:15:47.120 two thousand eleven against anti union legislation, and all this 3:15:47.280 --> 3:15:50.320 was happened against the backdrop of the Arab Spring, and 3:15:50.360 --> 3:15:53.080 then in the Bay Area the Oscar Grant rebellion and 3:15:53.200 --> 3:15:55.640 riots in two thousand and nine and two thousand ten 3:15:55.800 --> 3:15:59.039 kicked off and had a massive impact, centering discussions around 3:15:59.080 --> 3:16:02.200 police race and supremacy, as well as the role of 3:16:02.360 --> 3:16:05.360 rioting and social movements. At the same time, students and 3:16:05.440 --> 3:16:09.040 graduate workers occupied college campus buildings in New York and 3:16:09.120 --> 3:16:13.480 across California, which really spread the concept of occupying across 3:16:13.560 --> 3:16:16.959 the social terrain, as well as slogans like strike, occupied, takeover, 3:16:17.440 --> 3:16:20.840 and occupy everything. Now, the explosion of the occupy movement 3:16:20.879 --> 3:16:23.439 in the fall of two thousand eleven cannot be overstated. 3:16:23.600 --> 3:16:26.720 Occupying camments became a focal point for people angry at 3:16:26.760 --> 3:16:29.440 the general state of the world to gather discuss an 3:16:29.480 --> 3:16:32.840 act and they became a real focal point for encounter. 3:16:33.080 --> 3:16:35.800 While some cities saw these encampments come and go pretty quickly, 3:16:36.320 --> 3:16:39.400 when he saw concrete projects and organizing come out of them, 3:16:39.800 --> 3:16:42.360 people were fighting to resist foreclosures, for instance, in a 3:16:42.400 --> 3:16:45.080 lot of cities, and for many people this was where 3:16:45.160 --> 3:16:47.959 they were introduced to anarchist concepts such as direct action, 3:16:48.200 --> 3:16:52.720 horizontal organizing, and consensus decision making, which really brought these 3:16:52.800 --> 3:16:55.520 ideas front and center to hundreds of thousands of people 3:16:55.600 --> 3:16:58.440 in a real and tangible way. And while a lot 3:16:58.480 --> 3:17:01.039 of people on the left from a variety of backgrounds 3:17:01.120 --> 3:17:04.040 took part, the real backbone of those involved and occupy 3:17:04.120 --> 3:17:07.040 were just everyday people who were new to social movements 3:17:07.120 --> 3:17:10.960 and became activated by material conditions and just the zeitgeist 3:17:11.000 --> 3:17:15.160 of what was happening at the time. Occupy was fascinating 3:17:15.360 --> 3:17:17.680 for me, like I was in the Rust Belt at 3:17:17.720 --> 3:17:20.240 the time. Still at the occupy, I was part of 3:17:20.480 --> 3:17:23.120 the first march of five thousand people there. There may 3:17:23.160 --> 3:17:25.600 be like two or three d people at the general 3:17:25.680 --> 3:17:28.000 Assembly the night before, So most of the people that 3:17:28.080 --> 3:17:30.800 showed up were not people currently connected at that point 3:17:31.400 --> 3:17:33.720 to any kind of political organizing. They were just people 3:17:33.760 --> 3:17:35.040 that showed up because they heard about it on the 3:17:35.080 --> 3:17:37.240 internet and they showed up to do the thing. And 3:17:37.320 --> 3:17:40.760 that camp alot lasted nine months, but we can start 3:17:40.840 --> 3:17:43.200 to see the impacts of that kind of breakdown of 3:17:43.280 --> 3:17:46.440 that division between people who declared themselves political and quote 3:17:46.440 --> 3:17:49.400 everybody else. When we start to move forward past Occupy, 3:17:49.480 --> 3:17:52.879 we start to see that manifest during the ground Uprising Ferguson, 3:17:52.959 --> 3:17:55.119 We start to see that manifest during the George Floyd Rebellion, 3:17:55.480 --> 3:17:59.440 where this kind of division between those that declare themselves 3:17:59.520 --> 3:18:02.279 to be iCal agents and those that have not declared 3:18:02.320 --> 3:18:05.480 themselves to be so just ceases to really exist. And 3:18:05.560 --> 3:18:08.760 it's in those moments where we really actually see uprisings occur. 3:18:08.920 --> 3:18:11.480 Occupied pointed out an important thing which is a fallacy 3:18:11.560 --> 3:18:12.879 in the way that we think, and that we think 3:18:12.920 --> 3:18:16.520 that radicals make revolts happen, when in reality, people make 3:18:16.560 --> 3:18:19.600 revolts happen, and our job is to antagonize circumstances. And 3:18:19.680 --> 3:18:21.680 it's only at the point in which that division breaks 3:18:21.720 --> 3:18:25.560 down between quote us and everybody else, that revolts actually occur. 3:18:26.200 --> 3:18:28.680 And Occupy it was a really important point in a 3:18:28.760 --> 3:18:31.520 trajectory of I think a sector of the American anarchist 3:18:31.560 --> 3:18:34.720 movement and a sector of the American political scene starting 3:18:34.760 --> 3:18:38.800 to really internalize that understanding, starting to really grasp how 3:18:38.920 --> 3:18:40.400 different that is from the way that we have been 3:18:40.400 --> 3:18:43.480 taught to organize, and we're still seeing the ramifications of 3:18:43.520 --> 3:18:46.119 a lot of that work today, many many many years later, 3:18:46.720 --> 3:18:49.400 looking at like occupied, looking at any of these big moments. 3:18:49.720 --> 3:18:51.560 When we look back, we can see all these things 3:18:51.640 --> 3:18:54.640 that like contribute to it, you know. And I think 3:18:54.720 --> 3:18:56.640 that this thing that you ASO can see tom of them, 3:18:57.360 --> 3:19:00.000 like the kind of losing that thing of like professor 3:19:00.240 --> 3:19:03.480 active act or like or actor in a situation is 3:19:03.520 --> 3:19:06.440 like so important, and I think that that is something 3:19:06.520 --> 3:19:08.560 that can really inspire in terms of what's happening in 3:19:08.640 --> 3:19:11.640 this moment too, or like how general strikes happen, or 3:19:11.680 --> 3:19:15.120 how something that occupy happens. Is that things happen, like 3:19:15.240 --> 3:19:17.400 there are sort of moments that are kind of outside 3:19:17.440 --> 3:19:19.840 of our control. It's not something that can be like 3:19:20.040 --> 3:19:22.680 planned for, and if you do all the right things, 3:19:22.760 --> 3:19:24.920 then you get a general strike. But you can kind 3:19:25.000 --> 3:19:28.160 of like be relating to circumstances and to each other 3:19:28.360 --> 3:19:31.680 and then different things happen. Um like thinking about the 3:19:32.360 --> 3:19:36.400 George Floyd uprising in twenty like none of us predicted COVID, 3:19:36.760 --> 3:19:39.160 you know, and like how that might have contributed to 3:19:39.400 --> 3:19:42.000 what happened in that or just like all these different 3:19:42.000 --> 3:19:45.640 circumstances that come together to make these moments um and 3:19:46.160 --> 3:19:48.560 I think that you know, something like what's going on now, 3:19:48.640 --> 3:19:50.480 we could look back and look at all these different 3:19:50.480 --> 3:19:52.600 things that are happening that then make something big happen, 3:19:52.760 --> 3:19:56.520 and we never really know or can control that. A 3:19:56.600 --> 3:19:59.800 lot of the striking and occupy it serves the purpose 3:19:59.840 --> 3:20:02.200 of not us just coming together collectively, but it also 3:20:02.240 --> 3:20:05.440 serves as purpose of propaganda, and it just reminds me 3:20:05.520 --> 3:20:08.880 of this idea important idea of us occupying public spaces 3:20:09.120 --> 3:20:11.280 and the reason why we're not allowed to occupy public 3:20:11.360 --> 3:20:13.720 spaces because it's like sort of taking the power. And 3:20:13.760 --> 3:20:16.120 when there's lots of us occupied in public spaces, the 3:20:16.280 --> 3:20:18.039 media covers it and then it's like, well, what are 3:20:18.080 --> 3:20:20.160 these people talking about? What are they doing? And that 3:20:20.320 --> 3:20:23.040 would then itself also serves as a propaganda mechanism to 3:20:23.160 --> 3:20:26.000 like spread, so like I like just like listening to that. 3:20:26.080 --> 3:20:28.040 And I remember when again, like occupy was one of 3:20:28.080 --> 3:20:29.360 the moments that I was one of the people who 3:20:29.440 --> 3:20:31.640 viewed myself as not political, but I cared about what 3:20:31.800 --> 3:20:33.720 was happening in the movement because that was the first 3:20:33.760 --> 3:20:36.480 time I heard we are I think about moments of 3:20:36.560 --> 3:20:38.720 radicalization that I think of this one as being one 3:20:38.760 --> 3:20:41.200 of them as a person who's just like recently and 3:20:41.280 --> 3:20:43.520 as a five years ago recently awoke, Like these are 3:20:43.600 --> 3:20:45.840 moments that I remember, like had an impact on me 3:20:46.480 --> 3:20:49.280 seeing people on the street taking public spaces, and I 3:20:49.400 --> 3:20:52.520 think that perhaps that's something that we should continue to do. 3:20:52.800 --> 3:20:54.680 And maybe it's not one of those things where it's 3:20:54.720 --> 3:20:56.880 like maybe not as large as occupy, maybe it's not 3:20:57.200 --> 3:20:59.800 consistently large, but like maybe we as civilians to just 3:21:00.040 --> 3:21:02.720 over public spaces all the time, just as a reminder 3:21:02.760 --> 3:21:04.560 to ourselves that we do have the power to do that. 3:21:04.640 --> 3:21:06.120 Like we can't have a free store here because we 3:21:06.160 --> 3:21:07.560 want to. We don't have to ask the government for 3:21:07.600 --> 3:21:09.520 permission to do anything, like I think it's a huge 3:21:09.560 --> 3:21:13.120 first stop of becoming ungovernable and speaking of things that 3:21:13.200 --> 3:21:16.120 belong in a free store. We're now going to hear 3:21:16.240 --> 3:21:21.359 from our sponsors. For us to understand how the Oakland 3:21:21.400 --> 3:21:24.680 General Strike of took place, we first have to go 3:21:24.800 --> 3:21:27.400 back to what made Occupy Oakland so important to so 3:21:27.480 --> 3:21:30.680 many people just a few short weeks in October. In 3:21:30.800 --> 3:21:33.680 the following interview, we speak with it's Going Down. Contributor, 3:21:34.120 --> 3:21:37.960 author and translator based in Mexico, Scott Campbell about his 3:21:38.080 --> 3:21:40.760 memories of occupy and what set the stage for a 3:21:40.800 --> 3:21:44.200 massive strike on November two. We didn't speak with Tova, 3:21:44.280 --> 3:21:47.800 who was involved in the Occupy Oakland Labor Solidarity Committee, 3:21:48.240 --> 3:21:51.480 about Bay Area labor unions becoming involved in the strike. 3:21:52.160 --> 3:21:55.320 So to kick things off, Scott tell us about Occupy Oakland, 3:21:55.440 --> 3:21:58.360 what it looked like, how life and Oscar Grand Plaza 3:21:58.480 --> 3:22:01.560 was organized, and about this living, breathing thing many came 3:22:01.640 --> 3:22:04.520 to call the Oakland community. If you were to walk 3:22:04.600 --> 3:22:07.920 into Occupy Oakland, I think you'd be overwhelmed. Um. It 3:22:08.240 --> 3:22:15.080 was an amazing, vibrant, self managed, auto jestive community where 3:22:15.200 --> 3:22:18.720 you had folks living there in an Oscar Grant plaza. 3:22:19.160 --> 3:22:25.760 You had food, childcare, medical care, libraries, UM, all sorts 3:22:25.800 --> 3:22:29.879 of projects UM in a self run sort of directly 3:22:29.959 --> 3:22:35.520 democratic assembly based, communally organized space. And it was open 3:22:35.600 --> 3:22:38.520 to anyone except for police and politicians who wanted to 3:22:38.680 --> 3:22:43.440 come and participate in this sort of radical experiment, this 3:22:43.600 --> 3:22:47.039 radical form of being with one another outside the constraints 3:22:47.120 --> 3:22:50.320 of how society normally constructs us to perform and interact 3:22:50.400 --> 3:22:54.039 with one another. And I think what really stuck out 3:22:54.080 --> 3:22:56.880 to me the most during this time period was just 3:22:57.320 --> 3:23:01.800 the the welcoming atmosphere or the sense of potential that 3:23:01.959 --> 3:23:05.160 the camp um and the activities based around the camp held, 3:23:05.720 --> 3:23:10.400 the openness of people, and really the wide range of 3:23:10.480 --> 3:23:14.960 individuals who were participating in collectives who were participating, which certainly, 3:23:15.000 --> 3:23:17.720 of course led to differences of opinions at times that 3:23:17.920 --> 3:23:20.640 made that created some dynamics that were a struggle to 3:23:20.680 --> 3:23:23.720 to work through and navigate, but at the same time 3:23:24.040 --> 3:23:27.080 really added to a sense of a space that went 3:23:27.240 --> 3:23:29.800 beyond a single project, that went beyond a single vision, 3:23:29.920 --> 3:23:33.960 but that was horizontal, communal and open in a way 3:23:34.280 --> 3:23:37.440 that I had never experienced before and that I have 3:23:37.680 --> 3:23:41.119 yet to experience again. It definitely had an organic feel 3:23:41.200 --> 3:23:45.000 to it of of sort of people coming together, lending 3:23:45.080 --> 3:23:48.600 what skills they had, lending what resources they had across 3:23:48.800 --> 3:23:52.959 a variety of positions UM that may be broadly categorized 3:23:53.000 --> 3:23:57.840 on the left or or post left spectrum, a spectrum 3:23:57.879 --> 3:24:02.280 of folks with the spectrum of capacities of needs UM 3:24:02.879 --> 3:24:05.440 I mean a large number of unhoused neighbors who were 3:24:05.480 --> 3:24:09.240 there who brought their own life experiences and their own 3:24:09.320 --> 3:24:12.240 knowledge and their own skills to bear on the project, 3:24:12.280 --> 3:24:14.840 which I think was a really, I guess, a powerful 3:24:14.920 --> 3:24:17.560 learning opportunity for a lot of people who hadn't really 3:24:17.600 --> 3:24:21.760 been in direct contact with unhoused folks um and who 3:24:22.720 --> 3:24:27.640 were unfamiliar with really perhaps the impetus beyond Occupy Oakland, 3:24:27.680 --> 3:24:30.400 and beyond occupy the impetus behind Occupy Oakland, and the 3:24:30.440 --> 3:24:33.560 impetus behind occupy Wall Street in general, which was of 3:24:33.640 --> 3:24:35.640 course the two thousand and eight financial crash and the 3:24:35.680 --> 3:24:38.520 Great Depression and the bailout of the banks while people 3:24:38.600 --> 3:24:41.000 got fore clothes on their homes, especially people of color 3:24:41.080 --> 3:24:44.320 and black folks, which which hit particularly hard in Oakland. 3:24:44.440 --> 3:24:46.680 And so we see all these dynamics coming together and 3:24:46.720 --> 3:24:49.520 trying to work themselves out organically without being mediated by 3:24:49.560 --> 3:24:53.560 any one organization or any particular ideology. And it was 3:24:53.600 --> 3:24:59.120 a powerful, confusing, messy, lively, beautiful experience. How to categorize 3:24:59.120 --> 3:25:02.200 as general assemb it is a great question, I think 3:25:02.440 --> 3:25:05.400 for me, how I interpreted it is it added a 3:25:05.520 --> 3:25:10.800 structural framework for how to navigate issues that would arise 3:25:10.879 --> 3:25:13.680 within the camp, within the sort of occupation. For lack 3:25:13.720 --> 3:25:16.600 of a better word of Oscar Grand Plaza, facilitating the 3:25:16.720 --> 3:25:20.160 day to day functionings of things. In a lot of ways, 3:25:20.320 --> 3:25:23.200 was a decision making body. I wouldn't call it a 3:25:23.280 --> 3:25:27.039 government as such, because it tried to run on consensus 3:25:27.200 --> 3:25:31.560 or modified consensus, and anyone was free to bring proposals 3:25:31.680 --> 3:25:34.680 to the General Assembly that were free to bring their 3:25:34.800 --> 3:25:37.800 ideas for and promote their events and promote their actions 3:25:37.840 --> 3:25:40.960 and activities. A lot of decisions were also being made 3:25:41.120 --> 3:25:42.880 by people who just showed up to do the work 3:25:42.959 --> 3:25:46.560 without necessarily consulting the General Assembly, So you almost had 3:25:46.760 --> 3:25:50.240 different tiers of activity and different tiers of organization occurring 3:25:50.280 --> 3:25:53.640 in the same space. That seemed, again I go back 3:25:53.680 --> 3:25:56.080 to this word, that seemed to organically work itself out 3:25:56.160 --> 3:25:59.240 most of the time, and within the General Assembly that 3:25:59.360 --> 3:26:02.640 was the more formal structure where people came together at 3:26:02.720 --> 3:26:08.400 times nightly to discuss issues facing the camp, to discuss 3:26:08.480 --> 3:26:12.240 issues with in terms of um dealing with the police 3:26:12.320 --> 3:26:14.720 and the city government and eventually the state and federal 3:26:14.800 --> 3:26:17.160 government as they showed up to determine how to respond 3:26:17.200 --> 3:26:19.400 to various acts of aggression and attacks on the camp 3:26:19.480 --> 3:26:21.760 and attacks on the space, to figure out how to 3:26:21.840 --> 3:26:23.560 better run the space. Even to figure out how to 3:26:23.600 --> 3:26:26.119 better run the General Assembly itself was a big question 3:26:26.240 --> 3:26:31.320 within the General Assembly. And these were general assemblies that 3:26:31.400 --> 3:26:34.920 anyone could participate and you didn't have to show qualifications 3:26:35.200 --> 3:26:38.640 or necessarily be living in the space. Anyone was free 3:26:38.720 --> 3:26:41.440 except for the police and politicians um to come and 3:26:41.600 --> 3:26:45.000 speak to the General Assembly. I remember one time gene Quon, 3:26:45.360 --> 3:26:47.680 then mayor of Oakland, wanted to come and speak to 3:26:47.720 --> 3:26:49.640 the General Assembly, and she was told she could, but 3:26:49.720 --> 3:26:52.080 she had to wait her turn, and so she decided 3:26:52.120 --> 3:26:53.959 to leave because she didn't want to wait. She didn't 3:26:53.959 --> 3:26:56.080 feel like she had to wait. It was really a 3:26:56.120 --> 3:26:59.080 space of encounter for people to bring up different aspects 3:26:59.080 --> 3:27:01.120 that there were concerned in them, that they were working on, 3:27:01.280 --> 3:27:03.360 that they wanted to see flourish in the space. The 3:27:03.560 --> 3:27:07.040 biggest general Assembly was happened around when to move forward 3:27:07.080 --> 3:27:09.840 with the general strike, but there were also general assemblies 3:27:09.920 --> 3:27:13.039 on on things like issues around smoking and people's health 3:27:13.080 --> 3:27:15.840 and well being in the space, issues around cleanliness, issues 3:27:15.879 --> 3:27:18.440 around safety, how to interact with the police, how to 3:27:18.480 --> 3:27:21.680 interact with the government, do we put forward demands? What 3:27:21.760 --> 3:27:24.080 should the name of it be? Is occupied Oakland? The 3:27:24.160 --> 3:27:27.359 problematic name. Should we change it to occupied to colonize Oakland? 3:27:27.560 --> 3:27:30.040 These were all sorts of issues that were brought forward 3:27:30.080 --> 3:27:31.960 to the General Assembly, along with like how do we 3:27:32.040 --> 3:27:34.560 meet the material needs of the space, and how do 3:27:34.640 --> 3:27:37.280 we handle the supplies that are being brought in and 3:27:37.400 --> 3:27:40.360 make sure that they're equally equitably distributed. Who can do 3:27:40.520 --> 3:27:43.760 what for whom within the space? How do people skills 3:27:43.879 --> 3:27:46.280 get the most use out of them. It was a 3:27:46.920 --> 3:27:50.400 very much a lively atmosphere. It felt like, I don't know, 3:27:50.520 --> 3:27:53.360 I I know the word democracy is contentious. It felt 3:27:53.400 --> 3:27:56.400 like a directly democratic process um. But there were also 3:27:57.200 --> 3:27:59.280 you know, it's important to recognize that there were some 3:27:59.360 --> 3:28:02.560 people who were more skilled and more familiar with how 3:28:02.760 --> 3:28:06.120 consensus works, who are more familiar with the process that 3:28:06.280 --> 3:28:09.960 was behind the running of the General Assembly, which which 3:28:10.000 --> 3:28:12.480 has its roots and anarchist practice and anarchist forms of 3:28:12.520 --> 3:28:16.080 decision making, and so those folks definitely had a hand 3:28:16.160 --> 3:28:18.600 up when it came to making decisions, when it came 3:28:18.640 --> 3:28:22.200 to presenting proposals, when it came to even administering and 3:28:22.480 --> 3:28:25.959 running the General Assembly itself, those tasks often fell into 3:28:26.000 --> 3:28:28.240 the lapse of anarchists who I think did a good 3:28:28.320 --> 3:28:31.840 job of making sure that these general assemblies ran smoothly 3:28:32.080 --> 3:28:34.240 and that they were inclusive and open to all who 3:28:34.320 --> 3:28:37.280 wanted to participate, and people could bring their ideas, and 3:28:37.360 --> 3:28:40.400 sometimes they got approved, sometimes they got rejected. Even if 3:28:40.440 --> 3:28:43.280 they got rejected, some some folks decided they would implement 3:28:43.360 --> 3:28:46.760 them anyways, and and that also worked out as well 3:28:46.800 --> 3:28:50.640 as sometimes creating conflict. The city grew increasingly frustrated with 3:28:50.720 --> 3:28:54.320 the encampment as they were they found themselves unable to 3:28:54.400 --> 3:28:57.440 make any progress in trying to recuperate, in trying to 3:28:58.080 --> 3:29:01.760 gain favor sort of the encampment their own and extension 3:29:01.800 --> 3:29:05.720 of the electoral body, right of the electoral body politic. Ultimately, 3:29:05.879 --> 3:29:09.760 that's what moved Kwan, the supposedly progressive mayor, more to 3:29:09.879 --> 3:29:12.320 the side of the police way of seeing things as 3:29:12.720 --> 3:29:14.879 force was the only option to deal with these people 3:29:14.959 --> 3:29:18.160 who are you know, being unrealistic, were being naive, who 3:29:18.200 --> 3:29:21.560 are being entranched in and transigent, and you know, at 3:29:21.600 --> 3:29:23.960 the same time, the police along with the city eventually 3:29:24.000 --> 3:29:26.040 started building up this narrative of the camp as a 3:29:26.160 --> 3:29:28.880 violent and unsafe space where people are being harmed in 3:29:28.920 --> 3:29:32.440 a variety of ways. And it was necessary for for 3:29:32.600 --> 3:29:35.680 public safety's sake to move against the encampment. I was 3:29:35.800 --> 3:29:38.480 there the night the encampment was evicted. I think it 3:29:38.600 --> 3:29:43.000 was October or early morning October twenty five, around three 3:29:43.000 --> 3:29:45.440 am in the morning, three thirty four am, and I 3:29:45.600 --> 3:29:48.039 was actually arrested. I was one of I believe eighty 3:29:48.360 --> 3:29:52.360 eight plus people were arrested. UM. During the process of 3:29:52.400 --> 3:29:55.640 the camps eviction, UM the police came in force. They 3:29:55.760 --> 3:29:58.879 massed up outside of Oracle Arena and the A Stadium. 3:29:59.280 --> 3:30:01.680 It was a massive operation. They came in from all sides. 3:30:01.760 --> 3:30:04.880 People upon hearing word that the camp was going to 3:30:04.959 --> 3:30:10.039 be evicted, UM set up barricades. They laced the entire 3:30:10.120 --> 3:30:13.720 area with string, trying to impede UM the possibility of 3:30:13.760 --> 3:30:16.400 the police getting injured. Quickly, there were battles with the 3:30:16.440 --> 3:30:19.400 police as they tried to make their way into the encampment, 3:30:19.480 --> 3:30:22.320 and eventually UM they came in from all sides and 3:30:22.520 --> 3:30:25.360 until they took over the encampment and encircled the people 3:30:25.400 --> 3:30:27.920 who remained in the camp. I was in jail when 3:30:28.600 --> 3:30:32.720 Scott Olsen was shot, but I do recall the prison 3:30:32.800 --> 3:30:36.920 guards or the Almeda County sheriffs who were making these 3:30:36.959 --> 3:30:39.840 comments as we were being released finally after about twenty 3:30:39.879 --> 3:30:42.080 four plus hours of being held, saying things like, oh, 3:30:42.200 --> 3:30:44.200 go have fun rioting and that sort of thing, and 3:30:44.680 --> 3:30:46.320 and we get out there and then hear about all 3:30:46.320 --> 3:30:48.320 the events that had happened over the course of the 3:30:48.440 --> 3:30:50.240 day that we had been locked up, of these people 3:30:50.760 --> 3:30:53.360 of folks in the thousands, just like you said, coming 3:30:53.400 --> 3:30:55.720 out to try and retake the space of running battles 3:30:55.760 --> 3:30:58.000 in the streets. I have so many friends and comrades 3:30:58.000 --> 3:31:00.440 who were telling stories about getting tear gassed, geting shot 3:31:00.480 --> 3:31:03.880 at with pepper balls, of Scott Wilson's devastating injury of 3:31:03.959 --> 3:31:06.840 getting shot in the head. It was violence that occurred 3:31:06.879 --> 3:31:09.640 outside the normal narrative of violence deployed by the police 3:31:10.200 --> 3:31:12.920 in Oakland, right, and so it made it exceptional, even 3:31:12.959 --> 3:31:15.800 though much more brutal violence occurs daily by the police 3:31:15.840 --> 3:31:19.279 in Oakland against primary the black black population in Oakland 3:31:19.440 --> 3:31:22.360 and and other people of color um. But we see 3:31:23.280 --> 3:31:26.240 a huge upswelling of outrage at the rate of the 3:31:26.400 --> 3:31:30.440 camp Um, outrage at the injury against Scott Wilson, and 3:31:31.160 --> 3:31:35.480 this ultimately the attempt to use force to quash a 3:31:35.560 --> 3:31:39.680 movement tremendously backfired against both the police and the city 3:31:39.760 --> 3:31:42.280 government in terms in terms of it building up even 3:31:42.360 --> 3:31:45.920 more support for Occupy Oakland and its efforts. I recall 3:31:46.400 --> 3:31:50.000 going to the General Assembly when the general strike was 3:31:50.080 --> 3:31:52.560 decided to be moved forward, when the proposal was made 3:31:52.600 --> 3:31:54.960 to have a general strike in a week, which was 3:31:55.120 --> 3:31:59.720 just seemed like a completely impossible notion and completely impractical, 3:32:00.200 --> 3:32:03.560 but also within the realm of the possible at the 3:32:03.600 --> 3:32:06.400 same time, because what had been going on, especially the 3:32:06.640 --> 3:32:09.800 response to people in terms of fighting against the police, 3:32:09.800 --> 3:32:13.160 in terms of taking back namcmon of basically winning against 3:32:13.200 --> 3:32:16.959 the government, winning against the police forces, reclaiming this space, 3:32:17.480 --> 3:32:21.080 um taking injuries, supporting one another through that process, it 3:32:21.160 --> 3:32:23.440 seems possible that we could pull up a general strike 3:32:23.520 --> 3:32:26.080 within a week. When it came around, it was clear 3:32:26.200 --> 3:32:29.160 that the word had been spread, that that energy that 3:32:29.320 --> 3:32:31.840 brought on that impulse to move forward with the general 3:32:31.920 --> 3:32:34.480 strike was still there a week later, and I would 3:32:34.520 --> 3:32:37.560 say that that day itself was a tremendous success. We 3:32:37.640 --> 3:32:40.440 had a hundred thousand people marching on the Port of Oakland, 3:32:40.720 --> 3:32:43.560 shutting it down. We had a day's worth of activities, 3:32:43.840 --> 3:32:46.680 everything that encapsulated Occupy Oakland. I feel like I found 3:32:46.720 --> 3:32:51.039 a home UM in particular on that day on November two. Again, 3:32:51.120 --> 3:32:54.440 we've been listening to Scott Campbell. Next we'll hear from Tova, 3:32:54.520 --> 3:32:58.040 who was involved in the Labor Solidarity Committee of Occupy Oakland, 3:32:58.560 --> 3:33:01.560 which worked to bring in labor unions into the organizing 3:33:01.720 --> 3:33:04.840 of the general strike. There were just masses of people 3:33:04.920 --> 3:33:08.119 down there at Oscar Career, at Plaza. Some of them 3:33:08.240 --> 3:33:14.480 were working on maintaining or re re establishing the different 3:33:14.760 --> 3:33:17.480 services that they had set up. I had been involved 3:33:17.520 --> 3:33:22.240 in labor struggles in the past back in Detroit when 3:33:22.280 --> 3:33:25.520 I was in the u a w. SO UM volunteered 3:33:25.560 --> 3:33:30.720 to work on the Labor Solidarity Committee to do the 3:33:30.800 --> 3:33:36.800 outreach to get support and participation of various unions, teamsters 3:33:36.840 --> 3:33:40.040 who played a very big role in in support UM 3:33:40.280 --> 3:33:43.360 for that general strike as well. And that I think 3:33:43.520 --> 3:33:47.000 it's the o e A, the Oakland Education Association as 3:33:47.040 --> 3:33:50.240 a teachers union, and they were very much involved in 3:33:50.320 --> 3:33:53.560 So was the s c IU, particularly the sci U, 3:33:53.760 --> 3:33:56.720 the City Workers, So the city workers were down there 3:33:56.760 --> 3:34:00.040 every day and saw what was going on. UM, and 3:34:00.280 --> 3:34:02.960 we're you know, very much involved and affected by it. 3:34:03.600 --> 3:34:06.720 You know, the teachers Union had, like you said, been 3:34:06.760 --> 3:34:11.680 involved with in support work before all the attacks by 3:34:11.720 --> 3:34:15.359 the police happened. UH. There was a lot of involvement 3:34:15.560 --> 3:34:19.280 beforehand as well, UM one or two Teamsters locals that 3:34:19.879 --> 3:34:23.160 were you know, supporting officially. They you know, it wasn't 3:34:23.360 --> 3:34:26.840 just their rank and file members, which had been great also, 3:34:27.000 --> 3:34:29.440 but you know, the we had support from one or 3:34:29.480 --> 3:34:34.440 two Teamsters locals and the i LW is primarily Local ten. 3:34:35.160 --> 3:34:39.400 The longshoreman whole proposal was to march down to the 3:34:39.640 --> 3:34:42.920 port UH and shut down the Port of Oakland. We 3:34:43.080 --> 3:34:48.000 had people involved from my LW. You although I'm pretty 3:34:48.040 --> 3:34:52.600 sure that the i LW Local ten officially was not 3:34:52.879 --> 3:34:56.520 involved in calling for that strike, but there were members 3:34:56.959 --> 3:35:01.680 who were involved in the i LW organization who were 3:35:01.720 --> 3:35:06.280 definitely involved in helping to plant and organize it as well. 3:35:06.720 --> 3:35:11.040 The Teamsters added some logistical support in terms of trucking 3:35:11.560 --> 3:35:14.760 and supplies and things like that. I think that the 3:35:14.879 --> 3:35:18.680 o e A the teachers also in addition to participation, 3:35:19.280 --> 3:35:22.160 donated supplies and things like that. So there was a 3:35:22.240 --> 3:35:26.920 lot of donations from the locals as well. We've been 3:35:26.959 --> 3:35:30.920 listening to Tova from the Occupy Oakland Labor Solidarity Committee, 3:35:31.040 --> 3:35:32.800 We're now going to take a short break and be 3:35:32.959 --> 3:35:37.880 right back. As the Oakland Commune and the Occupy movement 3:35:38.040 --> 3:35:41.280 faded into history, it helped inspire and inform a new 3:35:41.360 --> 3:35:45.640 generation of activists. As under Obama, we saw continued explosions 3:35:45.680 --> 3:35:50.760 in Ferguson, Baltimore, Minneapolis, and later at Standing Rock. By 3:35:50.800 --> 3:35:54.360 the time that Trump took office, autonomous resistance movements were 3:35:54.400 --> 3:35:58.320 bubbling beneath every surface. As airports were shut down against 3:35:58.360 --> 3:36:01.480 the Musli band, r It's broke out against the ault right, 3:36:02.080 --> 3:36:06.320 and thousands of teachers started striking across Appalachia. Donny Red, 3:36:06.360 --> 3:36:09.560 Ben Dennis and omage of the so called Redneck War 3:36:09.640 --> 3:36:14.360 of when striking coal miners engaged in grilla warfare with 3:36:14.440 --> 3:36:18.680 government troops and the Air Force dropped actual bombs on strikers. 3:36:19.720 --> 3:36:22.720 With the current uptick and strikes under Biden continuing into 3:36:24.400 --> 3:36:28.120 and the economic conditions of porn working people continuing to worsen, 3:36:28.879 --> 3:36:31.600 we asked labor reporter and author A Fight Like Hell, 3:36:31.840 --> 3:36:35.520 Kim Kelly, just what are the possibilities of mass strike 3:36:35.600 --> 3:36:38.960 action in the coming year? You know, I think we're 3:36:38.959 --> 3:36:44.120 in this really interesting moment where labor and workers and 3:36:44.360 --> 3:36:47.240 unions in general are getting a lot more attention than 3:36:47.320 --> 3:36:49.840 we're used to, and a lot of that attention is positive, 3:36:49.920 --> 3:36:51.520 and we have a lot of these big wins that 3:36:51.600 --> 3:36:54.520 we get to celebrate. We get to celebrate, you know, 3:36:54.680 --> 3:36:58.680 the workers at Staten Island, Amazon go on toe to 3:36:58.720 --> 3:37:01.120 toe of Jeff Bezos and the un election winning. We 3:37:01.200 --> 3:37:07.160 get to celebrate this ongoing wave of unionization efforts at 3:37:07.280 --> 3:37:10.720 Starbucks across the country, hundreds of Starbucks and unionized. We 3:37:10.800 --> 3:37:14.039 get to celebrate a lot of big wins. And they 3:37:14.080 --> 3:37:16.959 are also a lot of struggles that have been kind 3:37:17.000 --> 3:37:19.240 of set to this side, or not gotten as much 3:37:19.240 --> 3:37:22.360 attention as they deserve, or kind of written off. I 3:37:22.400 --> 3:37:25.600 think that's always the dichotomy of the labor movement in general, 3:37:25.680 --> 3:37:28.680 right because it's so big almost everyone is a part 3:37:28.720 --> 3:37:30.240 of it, whether or not they like to think of 3:37:30.280 --> 3:37:32.840 themselves that way. You know, I've been covering this coal 3:37:32.920 --> 3:37:38.080 minor strike in Alabama since April one. They're still out there. 3:37:38.600 --> 3:37:41.280 They have not gotten very much attention. They're kind of 3:37:42.120 --> 3:37:44.720 stuck in a stalemate at the bargaining table because the 3:37:44.760 --> 3:37:47.040 bosses want to starve them out. And this is Alabama, 3:37:47.280 --> 3:37:50.880 where workers in or outside the prison walls do not 3:37:51.000 --> 3:37:53.800 have very many rights, do not have any politicians on 3:37:53.879 --> 3:37:56.960 their side. They're struggling and they're still out there. And 3:37:57.040 --> 3:38:01.119 that's kind of the flip side of these big, energetic, 3:38:01.280 --> 3:38:05.039 inspiring moments in labor right where we have these winds, 3:38:05.400 --> 3:38:06.960 and we also have folks that are being left a 3:38:07.040 --> 3:38:10.640 slog or being ignored entirely, like the folks that we're 3:38:10.640 --> 3:38:13.760 going to see very soon in Pennsylvania who are going 3:38:13.800 --> 3:38:17.200 to be launching a strike and side the Department of Corrections. 3:38:17.680 --> 3:38:19.680 I hope that gets a lot of attention. I mean, 3:38:19.800 --> 3:38:22.600 we saw a similar effort by a carce rated workers 3:38:22.640 --> 3:38:24.960 in Alabama a couple of months ago, and that got 3:38:25.000 --> 3:38:27.360 a lot of attention. And I'm really hoping that this 3:38:27.480 --> 3:38:29.880 kind of renewed interest in labor and workers rights and 3:38:29.920 --> 3:38:35.240 then discussing even topics like prison slavery, in topics like 3:38:35.400 --> 3:38:38.800 forced labor, incarcerated work, and different types of work. I 3:38:38.920 --> 3:38:41.200 really hope that benefits these workers as they embark on 3:38:41.320 --> 3:38:46.360 their action. But we'll see, you know, like I am 3:38:46.480 --> 3:38:49.680 very interested to see perhaps the limits of this public 3:38:49.760 --> 3:38:53.360 support for labor actions. Is it easier to support a 3:38:53.440 --> 3:38:55.720 barista than it is to support a coal miner and 3:38:55.760 --> 3:39:00.440 incarcerated worker. There's all these different pieces that go into 3:39:00.480 --> 3:39:04.080 this moment. And I love being possy. I love seeing 3:39:04.160 --> 3:39:08.080 workers win and workers organized and strike and protest, and 3:39:08.760 --> 3:39:11.360 I also like keeping an eye out for the folks 3:39:11.400 --> 3:39:13.800 who aren't getting as much intention and aren' getting as 3:39:13.879 --> 3:39:16.280 much support and thinking about why that is. So it's 3:39:16.320 --> 3:39:18.840 kind of a long, rambly answer to say, I am 3:39:18.959 --> 3:39:22.840 cautiously optimistic, and I really hope that all of the 3:39:22.920 --> 3:39:27.240 people who have thankfully and you know, I'm I'm glad 3:39:27.280 --> 3:39:29.520 they're here, who have showed up in the past year 3:39:29.600 --> 3:39:33.760 in the media, the political class, whoever, regularly, regular people 3:39:33.840 --> 3:39:36.360 who have been paying attention to these these worker actions. 3:39:36.760 --> 3:39:39.120 I hope they keep that energy for this year, because 3:39:39.160 --> 3:39:42.640 we're going to need it, you know. Started we we've 3:39:42.680 --> 3:39:46.240 had a pretty good We're in a decent spot, and 3:39:46.320 --> 3:39:49.240 I really don't want to see a squander that. See. 3:39:49.280 --> 3:39:52.000 I think this moment with the Wildroad workers, I think 3:39:52.360 --> 3:39:55.080 that is something that's going to continue to resonate and 3:39:55.240 --> 3:39:58.039 reverberate out and I think that's going to have an 3:39:58.080 --> 3:40:00.720 impact the next time the Democratic part he says, hey, 3:40:01.320 --> 3:40:04.160 where the workers party like, you need to come vote 3:40:04.200 --> 3:40:06.119 for us and keep us in power, because well, we're 3:40:06.160 --> 3:40:10.040 the only ones who will protect you. Well will you 3:40:10.520 --> 3:40:12.560 did you? Were you there for us when we needed 3:40:12.600 --> 3:40:15.680 you or when we needed your help? No? You know, 3:40:17.000 --> 3:40:20.640 it just makes one wonder how much of the pro 3:40:20.879 --> 3:40:26.200 union uh sloganeering that that this administration loves to do, 3:40:26.720 --> 3:40:29.760 how much of it is pure public relations, how much 3:40:29.800 --> 3:40:33.720 of it is actually attached to whatever personal beliefs that 3:40:34.000 --> 3:40:37.920 Biden has, or if they just think it's politically expedient 3:40:38.040 --> 3:40:41.400 to you know, act as though where the we're pro union, 3:40:41.440 --> 3:40:43.440 we're pro worker, we're not going to pass any laws, 3:40:43.680 --> 3:40:46.160 we're not going to investigate any worker death at Amazon 3:40:46.240 --> 3:40:49.080 facilities are elsewhere, we're not going to use our power 3:40:49.120 --> 3:40:52.720 to help you. But we're not Republicans, So you know, 3:40:54.160 --> 3:40:57.080 it's um. I think it's going to be interesting to 3:40:57.280 --> 3:41:01.480 see how much the real words strike impacts people, because 3:41:01.520 --> 3:41:05.360 I think that the political calculus that the Biden administration 3:41:05.520 --> 3:41:10.120 did in choosing to crush the strike inside with the 3:41:10.400 --> 3:41:13.120 railroad bosses, I guess they figured, oh, well, it's not 3:41:13.240 --> 3:41:14.920 that big of a deal. Maybe not that many people 3:41:14.959 --> 3:41:16.920 are paying attention. We've got to make sure people get 3:41:16.959 --> 3:41:20.000 their Christmas presents on time. But a lot of folks 3:41:20.040 --> 3:41:23.039 were watching that. A lot of regular workers were watching 3:41:23.080 --> 3:41:25.480 that and thinking, oh so, if we were in that 3:41:25.600 --> 3:41:28.200 position at my job, the government would help us either. 3:41:28.879 --> 3:41:31.040 I think, you know, a lot of the chatter I 3:41:31.160 --> 3:41:33.840 saw from railroad workers, from other workers, just from people 3:41:33.879 --> 3:41:37.520 in generals like, oh so, okay, this was the big 3:41:37.640 --> 3:41:41.120 moment where Biden could have proved he cared about us, 3:41:41.200 --> 3:41:43.880 and instead he threw us under the bus straight onto 3:41:43.879 --> 3:41:47.680 the railroad tracks. And I don't think that's a surprise 3:41:47.879 --> 3:41:50.920 to people that are sort of paying more close attention 3:41:50.959 --> 3:41:53.120 to the way the state operates. But I think it 3:41:53.240 --> 3:41:55.840 was maybe a revelatory moment for folks who just sort 3:41:55.879 --> 3:41:58.320 of assumed, okay, like there's at least a little bit 3:41:58.360 --> 3:42:01.280 of benevolence at least, you know, democrats are in power. 3:42:01.400 --> 3:42:03.840 This guy says, hells unions, that should help us out 3:42:03.840 --> 3:42:06.640 a little bit. But seeing what happened there, I think 3:42:06.720 --> 3:42:09.160 it's going to be a profoundly disillusioning moment for a 3:42:09.240 --> 3:42:10.880 lot of people that maybe had a little bit more 3:42:10.959 --> 3:42:13.920 faith in the state or at least assumed it was 3:42:14.000 --> 3:42:16.360 sort of looking out for us. And I think that's 3:42:16.360 --> 3:42:19.560 gonna have an impact when you know, the Democratic Party 3:42:19.640 --> 3:42:23.000 comes back knocking on our doors and mostly asking for 3:42:23.080 --> 3:42:26.360 a vote in our support, because I mean you, we 3:42:26.520 --> 3:42:29.320 had a classic which side are you on moment and 3:42:29.560 --> 3:42:32.280 we saw which way they chose to go. We're gonna 3:42:32.400 --> 3:42:35.760 see more prolonged strikes, We're going to see more unfair 3:42:35.840 --> 3:42:38.280 labor practices, are going to see more organizing. I think 3:42:38.360 --> 3:42:41.800 that it is impossible to put this lightning back into 3:42:41.879 --> 3:42:45.080 a bottle. Right Like, activity and interest in unions and 3:42:45.280 --> 3:42:48.560 organizing is, if not skyrocketing, it's had a really nice 3:42:48.600 --> 3:42:52.279 little bump over the past few years, a noticeable improvement 3:42:52.400 --> 3:42:57.320 and a noticeable amount of new worker workplaces being organized 3:42:57.360 --> 3:42:59.440 and going on strike and fighting for their rights. Like, 3:42:59.520 --> 3:43:02.320 I don't think that's going away. And two of the 3:43:03.160 --> 3:43:08.360 aspects of this, this entire scenario that really interests me. First, 3:43:08.440 --> 3:43:11.000 the fact that we're seeing so many workers who some 3:43:11.160 --> 3:43:14.160 my categories as quote unquote white collar whatever, folks who 3:43:14.240 --> 3:43:18.440 work in nonprofits or at book publishers or journalism, other 3:43:18.560 --> 3:43:21.800 types of media kind of all of these other types 3:43:21.840 --> 3:43:24.640 of jobs that don't fit into that traditional manufacturing or 3:43:24.680 --> 3:43:30.160 extractive focused many more manual labor oriented jobs that I 3:43:30.240 --> 3:43:32.360 think a lot of people associate with the labor movement. 3:43:32.840 --> 3:43:35.520 They've been going on strike and they've been making big waves, 3:43:35.640 --> 3:43:38.320 whether it's the forty eight thousand grad student workers at 3:43:38.320 --> 3:43:43.640 the University of California or harperk HarperCollins Publishing workers currently 3:43:43.680 --> 3:43:45.959 still on strike in New York City. I think there's 3:43:46.000 --> 3:43:48.640 been kind of the shift in understanding of oh, Okay, 3:43:48.959 --> 3:43:50.960 you don't need to be a certain type of worker, 3:43:51.120 --> 3:43:53.280 or certain type of person, or come from a specific 3:43:53.360 --> 3:43:56.760 background in order to organize to join a union. Unions 3:43:56.800 --> 3:43:59.640 aren't just for the classic white guy in a hard 3:43:59.680 --> 3:44:02.520 hatch like my dad, right like, they're accessible to so 3:44:02.600 --> 3:44:05.760 many more of us than perhaps we thought, And I 3:44:05.840 --> 3:44:09.480 think that's going to be big because the work has shifted. 3:44:09.680 --> 3:44:11.959 Work looks different than it did thirty years ago. There's 3:44:11.959 --> 3:44:14.200 a lot of different ways to be exploited, and we 3:44:14.280 --> 3:44:17.480 know the employers have definitely looked into each and everyone 3:44:17.640 --> 3:44:20.879 and taken notes, So we have that happening. I think 3:44:20.920 --> 3:44:26.200 that's gonna continue propelling the energy behind this movement. And secondly, 3:44:26.520 --> 3:44:30.240 I'm really intrigued by the rise, and that's it's a 3:44:30.320 --> 3:44:33.520 smaller phenomenon, but it is very much happening, and it 3:44:33.680 --> 3:44:37.480 is kind of increasing slowly the exist, this existence of 3:44:37.600 --> 3:44:42.160 independent unions, because we saw, of course the Amazon Labor Union. 3:44:42.200 --> 3:44:44.680 They're the big ones, They've gotten tons of attention, deservedly so. 3:44:45.400 --> 3:44:49.240 But there are also efforts Trader Joe's Trade Jo's United 3:44:49.280 --> 3:44:52.960 as an independent union. Chipotle workers formed an independent union. 3:44:53.240 --> 3:44:56.880 There was an effort here in Philadelphia to form a 3:44:56.920 --> 3:45:00.760 Home Depot workers independent union, and that one wasn't successful, 3:45:00.840 --> 3:45:03.840 but I'm certain that the organizer has not given up 3:45:03.840 --> 3:45:05.640 and they're still going to keep working on that. Like 3:45:06.360 --> 3:45:08.920 and I think seeing these independent unions which are not 3:45:09.640 --> 3:45:12.320 affiliated with other internationals, are not part of the fl 3:45:12.360 --> 3:45:15.760 C oh there literally just d I Y you know. 3:45:15.959 --> 3:45:20.080 Thence the fact that we're seeing this happen. I think 3:45:20.120 --> 3:45:23.720 it just shows the cracks in the current labor movements 3:45:23.920 --> 3:45:27.360 as it stands, and especially in the way that power 3:45:27.760 --> 3:45:31.920 is concentrated and the way that resources are organized, in 3:45:31.959 --> 3:45:36.640 the way that the movement's priorities in terms of public 3:45:37.400 --> 3:45:41.720 statements and political power are kind of dictated by folks 3:45:41.760 --> 3:45:44.240 who tend to be more conservative, and I mean that 3:45:44.320 --> 3:45:46.160 in like a Democrat way and not like you know, 3:45:46.400 --> 3:45:50.600 Republican chaos, but just more conservative compared to a lot 3:45:50.640 --> 3:45:53.400 of the rank and file, like we see with the 3:45:53.560 --> 3:45:58.080 railroad workers that rejected rejected that deal that so many 3:45:58.120 --> 3:46:00.320 of their leaders agreed on. You know, I think there's 3:46:00.400 --> 3:46:02.920 more radicalism brewing in the rank and file and more 3:46:03.000 --> 3:46:06.840 militancy that and it's it's manifesting in different ways. It's 3:46:06.879 --> 3:46:10.360 manifesting and wildcatch strikes or an independent unions, or in 3:46:10.560 --> 3:46:13.920 organizing outside of the traditional organized labor structure in general, 3:46:14.120 --> 3:46:16.400 like what sex workers and incarcerated workers are doing and 3:46:16.480 --> 3:46:19.120 have been doing. I think ultimately the bottom line is 3:46:19.160 --> 3:46:21.200 that a lot of workers, a lot of people have 3:46:21.360 --> 3:46:26.840 realized that they have options, and they're exercising their rights 3:46:26.879 --> 3:46:30.400 to organize and to work collectively and to stand with 3:46:30.440 --> 3:46:33.520 their fellow workers against the bosses and against capital in 3:46:33.680 --> 3:46:37.160 ways that you know, perhaps wouldn't have felt as available 3:46:37.240 --> 3:46:39.840 or seemed as possible a few years ago, but now 3:46:40.200 --> 3:46:43.240 there's so many examples of other workers doing it. Of 3:46:43.320 --> 3:46:45.680 course have been there throughout history too, like I read 3:46:45.680 --> 3:46:48.320 about my book, but I think we're at this moment 3:46:48.400 --> 3:46:51.600 where people realize, Okay, there are a lot of different 3:46:51.640 --> 3:46:54.960 ways to do this. I have people with me, we 3:46:55.080 --> 3:46:58.520 have problems we need to address. Let's see what works. 3:46:59.080 --> 3:47:00.680 You know, it's not just picking up the phone and 3:47:00.720 --> 3:47:03.320 calling a union organizer, though that works for some folks, too, 3:47:04.240 --> 3:47:07.840 is recognizing the problems we face in our workplace, in 3:47:07.920 --> 3:47:11.160 our experience, and deciding together what we want to do, 3:47:11.560 --> 3:47:13.400 how we want to go forward, and how we're going 3:47:13.440 --> 3:47:16.960 to win. Once again, that was Kim Kelly, author of 3:47:17.280 --> 3:47:21.160 Philight Hell. Over the past two episodes, we've taken a 3:47:21.280 --> 3:47:24.160 deep dive into the history of general strikes in the 3:47:24.240 --> 3:47:27.600 United States, looking at everything from the mass strike of 3:47:27.720 --> 3:47:31.160 Enslave plantation workers during the Civil War all the way 3:47:31.240 --> 3:47:34.520 up to current examples during Occupy Oakland. I think one 3:47:34.600 --> 3:47:36.600 of the things history has to offer us as a 3:47:36.680 --> 3:47:39.600 guide for the present is that these upheavals are made 3:47:39.640 --> 3:47:43.920 possible not only by people responding to material conditions, but 3:47:44.040 --> 3:47:47.960 also learning from struggle. In the instance of the Great Upheaval, 3:47:48.520 --> 3:47:51.640 that general strike came after a series of other smaller strikes. 3:47:52.200 --> 3:47:56.360 This fall, thousands of prisoners across Alabama organized a general 3:47:56.400 --> 3:48:00.040 strike of incarcerated workers, downing their tools and refusing to 3:48:00.120 --> 3:48:03.560 work their jobs, bringing the prisons to a grinding halt. 3:48:04.040 --> 3:48:06.560 This historic strike comes on the heels of many other 3:48:06.680 --> 3:48:11.160 prisoner led strike actions in two thousand ten, two thousand sixteen, 3:48:11.720 --> 3:48:14.720 in two thousand eighteen, not to mention the fact that 3:48:14.840 --> 3:48:18.560 many Alabama prisoners saw themselves as acting in the spirit 3:48:18.640 --> 3:48:21.560 of the Great Plantation Strike during the Civil War, as 3:48:21.600 --> 3:48:25.040 epitomized by the strike slogan let the crops rought in 3:48:25.080 --> 3:48:28.960 the field in my final thoughts, instead of putting our 3:48:29.040 --> 3:48:31.840 hopes in a call for a general strike going viral, 3:48:32.120 --> 3:48:34.600 as the same goes, we have to walk before we 3:48:34.680 --> 3:48:37.840 can run. So strengthening our ability to engage in collective 3:48:37.879 --> 3:48:40.880 direct action and active refusal, as well as building our 3:48:40.920 --> 3:48:45.120 capacity for community self defense and mobilizing against state violence 3:48:45.160 --> 3:48:49.520 and oppression and whatever form, will ultimately allow us to 3:48:49.640 --> 3:48:52.840 expand and grow our ability to do these things in 3:48:52.959 --> 3:48:56.000 the future. A lot of times we're told that like 3:48:56.080 --> 3:48:58.720 we're powerless and were these passive beings and creatures, and 3:48:58.760 --> 3:49:00.640 we have to wait for somebody to order anizes. But 3:49:00.720 --> 3:49:02.240 every single day we wake up in the morning and 3:49:02.320 --> 3:49:04.880 we make capitalism happen like we do it like all 3:49:04.960 --> 3:49:06.920 of us, every single one of us, does it like 3:49:07.000 --> 3:49:09.840 this is not like, oh, like this is just something 3:49:09.920 --> 3:49:12.320 that's happening to us, we're doing to ourselves. We're doing 3:49:12.400 --> 3:49:14.320 it to each other. Like these are little things that 3:49:14.400 --> 3:49:16.480 we can do, like little acts of resistance. And I'm 3:49:16.480 --> 3:49:18.560 all about petty resistance because I do realize that a 3:49:18.640 --> 3:49:21.120 lot of people don't have time for the large resistances. 3:49:21.160 --> 3:49:23.920 So this is for anybody who's like, yeah, I hate capitalism, 3:49:24.040 --> 3:49:25.880 but I just don't have the breath on the space 3:49:25.920 --> 3:49:28.320 and the time to necessarily like go out and do things. 3:49:28.360 --> 3:49:30.160 If you can't, please do it. You can't like walk 3:49:30.200 --> 3:49:32.200 the funk out do But if you can't, like there's 3:49:32.200 --> 3:49:34.080 still stuff you can do. That's it for me. By 3:49:34.160 --> 3:49:38.600 you know which strikes me often about general strikes are 3:49:38.720 --> 3:49:43.600 two things. First is that general strikes actually function very 3:49:43.680 --> 3:49:47.120 differently than they do in leftist discourse. Like in leftist 3:49:47.160 --> 3:49:50.960 discourse it's workers do general strikes. But in reality, if 3:49:50.960 --> 3:49:54.560 we really look at general strikes, there these moments of convergence. Right, 3:49:54.600 --> 3:49:58.480 there's these these sort of points in which distinctions break down, Right, 3:49:58.560 --> 3:50:01.680 the distinction between like organizers and everyone else, or the 3:50:01.720 --> 3:50:05.000 distinction between workers and non workers completely breakdown. Right, It's 3:50:05.000 --> 3:50:07.640 not just railroad workers don't strike in eighteen seventy seven, 3:50:07.720 --> 3:50:10.840 is also their families, their neighbors, their whole communities on strike. 3:50:11.480 --> 3:50:15.120 And this the second thing that that raises often for 3:50:15.240 --> 3:50:18.600 me is again this kind of long term cultural implications 3:50:18.880 --> 3:50:21.800 of that sort of form of action. So growing up 3:50:21.800 --> 3:50:24.360 in a place where you know, strike culture is a thing, 3:50:25.240 --> 3:50:27.760 um still where there's still actual union density and people 3:50:27.800 --> 3:50:31.120 do walk off the job. Um, you grow up with 3:50:31.200 --> 3:50:34.400 that as an idea, right that you don't just walk 3:50:34.440 --> 3:50:36.480 off the job, But like the restaurant around the corner 3:50:36.560 --> 3:50:39.040 also gives out free food, and people bring coffee down 3:50:39.080 --> 3:50:41.880 to the picket line, and you know, workers from other 3:50:42.040 --> 3:50:44.480 unions show up the block entrances because the judge said 3:50:44.520 --> 3:50:46.600 you can, you know, so on so on, and it 3:50:46.720 --> 3:50:50.480 becomes this huge community initiative of autonomy and self defense. 3:50:51.080 --> 3:50:55.280 And what that creates is a sense in which class 3:50:55.320 --> 3:51:00.200 struggle is perpetual. Like you understand always when you grow 3:51:00.240 --> 3:51:01.400 up in a place like that, But when you go 3:51:01.480 --> 3:51:03.520 to work, you're making somebody else money because you've been 3:51:03.520 --> 3:51:05.880 told that your whole life right, and that if you 3:51:05.960 --> 3:51:07.800 get angry about that, that what you're supposed to do 3:51:07.840 --> 3:51:10.160 is organize and go on strike. And that's a very 3:51:10.400 --> 3:51:13.840 normal sort of narrative. That was because we all grew 3:51:13.880 --> 3:51:15.880 up in families where we were taught to do that. 3:51:16.280 --> 3:51:18.720 That if the wealthy we're taking advantage of you, you 3:51:18.880 --> 3:51:22.480 just leave. Right. That is not a normal thing outside 3:51:22.520 --> 3:51:24.800 of the rest of the America, right, Like, people don't 3:51:24.800 --> 3:51:27.240 get brought up with that. But I think as we're 3:51:27.280 --> 3:51:30.160 starting to see this kind of rise of the idea 3:51:30.240 --> 3:51:32.360 of the general strike, and we're starting to understand that 3:51:32.520 --> 3:51:35.680 is something that's not just connected to employment, but we 3:51:35.720 --> 3:51:37.920 can start to think of general strikes as social strikes 3:51:38.000 --> 3:51:41.440 and not just economic strikes. We can start to understand like, 3:51:41.800 --> 3:51:44.960 even if those may immediately not succeed, the long term 3:51:45.120 --> 3:51:47.840 impacts of those over time really create the conditions for 3:51:47.960 --> 3:51:50.680 them to succeed later. And if it hadn't been for 3:51:51.440 --> 3:51:54.480 that flame staying alive, I think in parts of America, 3:51:55.240 --> 3:51:58.080 this wave of worker action wouldn't be happening. There wouldn't 3:51:58.080 --> 3:51:59.720 be a foundation for it, there wouldn't be a way 3:51:59.840 --> 3:52:03.280 on your standard right um. And that's what's so critical 3:52:03.320 --> 3:52:05.120 about this moment is I think in some ways we're 3:52:05.160 --> 3:52:08.520 almost reviving a thing that my grandparents lived in the 3:52:08.600 --> 3:52:11.120 midst of just as a very normal part of their lives. 3:52:11.400 --> 3:52:13.520 I think that's like a really important piece about the survival. 3:52:13.560 --> 3:52:16.000 And I think that something that feels really important about 3:52:16.040 --> 3:52:19.320 general strikes is the idea of like solidarity and that 3:52:19.440 --> 3:52:22.720 our liberation is collective, you know, that it involves each other. 3:52:23.320 --> 3:52:26.080 And I think that, um, I feel like what happened 3:52:26.120 --> 3:52:28.040 between like what you're saying some about you, like your 3:52:28.040 --> 3:52:31.480 grandparents generation and now is like near liberalism in a 3:52:31.560 --> 3:52:34.160 lot of ways, and just like this really strong promotion 3:52:34.240 --> 3:52:36.960 of the idea of like individualism and that if you 3:52:37.040 --> 3:52:39.040 want to make your life better you have to do 3:52:39.160 --> 3:52:41.840 it yourself, and like it's down to you as an individual. 3:52:42.320 --> 3:52:44.600 But I think it was pretty effective at decimating a 3:52:44.640 --> 3:52:47.120 lot of ideas of like solidarity or the idea that 3:52:47.200 --> 3:52:50.080 I like, freedom is with each other, um. And I 3:52:50.160 --> 3:52:52.520 think that that is starting to fall apart, Like people 3:52:52.560 --> 3:52:55.280 are realizing however much they hustle or like have side 3:52:55.360 --> 3:52:58.720 hustles or whatever, they're still fucked. And just like I 3:52:58.880 --> 3:53:00.960 think that we're seeing like there's sergeants of this idea 3:53:01.040 --> 3:53:03.680 of like solidarity and that we have to do together. 3:53:05.120 --> 3:53:06.920 That is going to do it for us this week. 3:53:07.200 --> 3:53:10.160 Thank you so much for tuning in. Check us out 3:53:10.360 --> 3:53:13.360 on Macedon at I g D Underscore News, and be 3:53:13.600 --> 3:53:15.880 sure to tune in as the workers that It Could 3:53:15.920 --> 3:53:18.880 Happen Here into their two day strike and return to 3:53:18.960 --> 3:53:22.080 the job. But stay tuned. We'll be back next week 3:53:22.200 --> 3:53:28.960 for even more episodes. Until then, Hey, We'll be back 3:53:29.040 --> 3:53:32.240 Monday with more episodes every week from now until the 3:53:32.280 --> 3:53:34.800 heat death of the Universe. It Could Happen Here is 3:53:34.800 --> 3:53:37.480 a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from 3:53:37.520 --> 3:53:40.400 cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com, 3:53:40.600 --> 3:53:42.320 or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, 3:53:42.360 --> 3:53:45.520 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 3:53:45.560 --> 3:53:48.240 find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at 3:53:48.280 --> 3:53:51.480 cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening