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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compiletion episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. It could happen here it

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Speaker 1: being the future and here being to you. Um this well,

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Speaker 1: last week when you hear this, but this week when

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Speaker 1: we're recording this, because we're recording this in the past

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Speaker 1: for you. Garrison Davis, intrepid correspondent and myself, Garrison Davis's boss,

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Speaker 1: went to c e S, the Consumer Electronics Show in

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Speaker 1: in order to explore the future, uh and and in

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Speaker 1: keeping with our guide both to the future which we

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Speaker 1: cover here and collapse because the tech industry is falling apart. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think this was a pretty interesting time to be

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Speaker 1: at c E S. I did an episode last week

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Speaker 1: where I kind of talked preliminary about some preliminaries, you know.

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Speaker 1: I went to an event called CS Unveiled where some

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Speaker 1: of the more prominent products were there. But we've we've

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Speaker 1: since spent three days walking around the convention floor, probably

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Speaker 1: around thirty miles on foot something like that. My legs

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Speaker 1: and back are falling apart. Yeah, we've turned you into

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Speaker 1: an old man. Um, but we have we have learned

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Speaker 1: what the future is going to be. Uh and I

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Speaker 1: am I'm boy howdy. I'm excited to tell the folks

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Speaker 1: what they can expect. Garrison, where do you? Where do

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Speaker 1: you think we should start? Let's start with some of

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Speaker 1: the more COLLAPSEI type things revolving around crypto, because crypto

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Speaker 1: was kind of Crypto was kind of like the white

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Speaker 1: elephant in the c e s because this is happening

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Speaker 1: right after the FTX fiasco, so it's it's kind of

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Speaker 1: it's kind of weird. It was we saw it printed

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Speaker 1: the word crypto and web three point oh printed on

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Speaker 1: more stuff than I heard people talk about. Yeah, people

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Speaker 1: are People were not talking about it the way I

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Speaker 1: think they would have been. Definitely definitely last even even

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Speaker 1: like a few months ago. M hm. And that was

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Speaker 1: really interesting. Um. We did sit in at one crypto

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Speaker 1: industry event where it was a group of like French regulators,

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Speaker 1: UM and French crypto business people talking about what they

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Speaker 1: felt like regulations were basically in the in the wake

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Speaker 1: of the FTX collapse, what kind of regulations did they

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Speaker 1: think would make crypto work? And you might have got

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Speaker 1: more than I did, Garrison, because they couldn't get their

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Speaker 1: microphones to work. Their microphone stopped working, then they're backup

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Speaker 1: microphone stopped working, and then they got a third backup mike,

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Speaker 1: which is a little tiny lav mike that they had

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Speaker 1: to finish the speaking into a tiny little lava lier mike.

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Speaker 1: And you were amplifying it and sending hain ful feedback

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Speaker 1: into everyone's ears. And look, they're gonna be defending the

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Speaker 1: traditional financial system. But I will bet you when a

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Speaker 1: bunch of Goldman Sachs bankers get up on stage, microphones work. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean that was just the one thing in a

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Speaker 1: long line of crypto and metaverse kind of fiascos that

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Speaker 1: we ran into at ces WE the first night we

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Speaker 1: got here, we were going to be going to a

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Speaker 1: crypto happy hour UM that was supposed to be held

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Speaker 1: at a bar called The Nerd on Fremont Street. You've

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Speaker 1: never been to Fremont Street Fremont Street is old Las Vegas,

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Speaker 1: so it's the worst part of town. Um, there's a gigantic,

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Speaker 1: fucking football field, long l c D screen above you

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Speaker 1: that plays animated versions of God Bless America. How do

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Speaker 1: you feel about Fremont Street? Here? Nightmare? Horrible, the cigar chy,

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Speaker 1: The smell walking back to the car was something. I

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Speaker 1: don't think I'll ever forget that smell. By the way, folks,

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Speaker 1: one of the things you're going to get from this

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Speaker 1: is a travelogue of young Garrison's first trip to Las Vegas. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: it's been a real one. So we get to Freemont Street.

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Speaker 1: Nobody is in the nerd. Um No, the nerd is

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Speaker 1: completely empty. It's a it's a bowling alley bar, which

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Speaker 1: sounds like a great idea, but it was completely deserted.

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Speaker 1: There was there was not a single soul and I

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Speaker 1: poked my head in. It was all under harsh purple

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Speaker 1: light and completely empty. And this is this is like

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Speaker 1: off off a Freemont Street, so like there's there were

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Speaker 1: plenty of people around on street and the music music

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Speaker 1: was blaring both inside and outside. Completely dead. Um. So

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Speaker 1: once this so we we saw this being empty, so

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Speaker 1: we checked the email for the crypto party again and

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Speaker 1: they said there there there was another location list, which

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Speaker 1: there's obviously just to clarify, there was the party invitation

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Speaker 1: thing that you would click in the list of c

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Speaker 1: S parties, and it had one invitation, one location, and

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Speaker 1: then there was also what you got emailed, which was

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Speaker 1: a secon separate location. There was zero indication as to

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Speaker 1: which was accurate. So we decided to go to the

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Speaker 1: other location listed because no one was at this one,

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Speaker 1: which was which was called the go to bar. Yes,

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Speaker 1: immediately immediately upon pulling up, we got great impressions. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was the hole in the wall, a little box,

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Speaker 1: uh window list box, windows box. All of the letters

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Speaker 1: were coming off of the science. It was impossible to

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Speaker 1: tell what they had, and they were descending in an

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Speaker 1: almost artful manner. It's like there's a photo on my Twitter.

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Speaker 1: We'll probably use it to headline this episode. It's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know if someone could have intentionally

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Speaker 1: intentionally placed those as well as they were. It was.

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Speaker 1: It was a perfect microcosm of this entire thing. Um,

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Speaker 1: we went inside, very nice people. The person there said

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Speaker 1: that the party wasn't happening here anymore, but that this

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Speaker 1: bar is the Crypto guys the usual hang out spot,

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Speaker 1: which was a glorious sentence to here, not a big

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Speaker 1: money location. And look, I I've drink, I've drinking a

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Speaker 1: lot of dive bars. I have both been poor and

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Speaker 1: in need of alcohol for much of my life. This is, um,

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Speaker 1: this is a classic dive bar. This is really really

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Speaker 1: And by that I mean not the kind of like

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Speaker 1: like trying to play it being a dive bar so

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Speaker 1: that people feel like they're getting the dive bar. I

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Speaker 1: mean like you will get tetanus from the bathroom dive bar.

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Speaker 1: It was great. Just the fact that that the person

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Speaker 1: like running the bar referred to this as their regular hangouts,

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Speaker 1: referred to this as the Crypto guys regular hangout spot,

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Speaker 1: is just warm into my heart. My biggest regret from

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Speaker 1: this trip is that we didn't stay for karaoke, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: we had other plans. Yeah, so that probably leads us

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Speaker 1: into meta There's not a lot else to say about

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Speaker 1: Christ was the which is the other kind of like

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Speaker 1: but both like Crypto n f T s a metaverse.

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Speaker 1: We're all kind of trying to piggyback off each other.

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Speaker 1: And I think metaverse has survived the best out of

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Speaker 1: those three US. It's doing better than Crypto and n

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Speaker 1: f t S, which isn't saying much UM but but

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Speaker 1: even still, I think there was a slight It was

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Speaker 1: weird some people were trying to emphasize that the metaverse aspects.

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Speaker 1: Some people were trying to empasize just the VR aspect. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the UM there. I saw metaverse and meta around, but

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Speaker 1: when I would go to the company's advertising various VR products,

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Speaker 1: they would usually were focused more often on other applications

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Speaker 1: for VR tech technology, Like I kind of get the

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Speaker 1: feeling again, a lot of them ordered stuff with Meta

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Speaker 1: on it before it became clear what a disaster it was,

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Speaker 1: and there's some backing for this. So for one week

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Speaker 1: we went and we saw UM Magic Leap, which is

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Speaker 1: a company that makes VR headsets and VR programs. Um

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Speaker 1: They have had pretty disastrous sales to the consumer market,

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Speaker 1: even though they's a very good product because it's really

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Speaker 1: high end and people aren't willing to spend hours on

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Speaker 1: a headset, and kind of prior to CE S sort

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Speaker 1: of reoriented themselves trying to sell to enterprise and and

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Speaker 1: trying to like move units uh, in like an industrial

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Speaker 1: capacity for people doing like training, and it's one of

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Speaker 1: those things one of the things you can do with

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Speaker 1: VR as you can sit a guy down, um and

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Speaker 1: have someone remotely explained to him how to fix or

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Speaker 1: repair something if he's less anyway, So they were showcasing

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Speaker 1: a lot of that as opposed to games. And certainly

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Speaker 1: no one tried to make me hop and do a

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Speaker 1: fucking Horizon Worlds or even VR chat. There wasn't much

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Speaker 1: in terms of like trying to advertise their their their

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Speaker 1: software hardware for building like virtual concerts I probably have

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Speaker 1: a lot of It was way more enterprise and like

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Speaker 1: you know, workplace training, and a lot a lot more

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Speaker 1: very like practical applications were gaming or gaming, but like

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Speaker 1: in terms of like what the like the high end

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Speaker 1: you know, expensive, big big VR producers were. Therefore, they

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Speaker 1: were definitely pivoting or at least at least showcasing the

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Speaker 1: applications that were more for enterprise. Yeah, and that that's

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Speaker 1: what I found really interesting because I probably had a

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Speaker 1: dozen different VR headsets on my head at some point.

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Speaker 1: Uh And and not once was I dropped into like

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Speaker 1: the kind of metaverse type thing that Facebook is and

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Speaker 1: again none of their products were on display. Um. Meta

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Speaker 1: Facebook was not here at all. There was another company

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Speaker 1: called Meta that I think that's some kind of machining,

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Speaker 1: which was funny because the Meta booth was just some

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Speaker 1: completely different company. Yeah. Um. But in terms of circling

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Speaker 1: back to the collapse aspect of the Metaverse, so Night

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Speaker 1: one was this failed crypto party where we went to

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Speaker 1: two locations and they were at neither one of them.

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Speaker 1: They weren't Night too. We signed up for an invite

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Speaker 1: to a metaverse party, and I can't tell you how

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Speaker 1: excited we were for this Metaverse. We were actually very well.

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Speaker 1: For one thing, legs are now in the Metaverse, and

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Speaker 1: Garrison's never experienced legs, so I was really cited for

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Speaker 1: them to see that. Yeah, I only had the quest

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Speaker 1: one which did which did not include legs. I was

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Speaker 1: also psyched to maybe make a big red robot friend,

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Speaker 1: like in that horrible video that Mark Zuckerberg made where

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Speaker 1: his friends are playing poker on a spaceship. So the

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Speaker 1: party on the invite that we request, like, you couldn't

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Speaker 1: just show up, you need you need to request an

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Speaker 1: invite and like get a ticket, and we got four tickets.

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Speaker 1: We got four tickets to this Metaverse party. It was

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Speaker 1: first for it first said it was at the Palazzo

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Speaker 1: um about Polazzo being part of the Venetian And about

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Speaker 1: two hours before the party they said it was no

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Speaker 1: longer at the Polazzo and instead where we were supposed

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Speaker 1: to meet them at the uh at that at the

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Speaker 1: fountain at the fountains outside of the Blaggio, which one

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Speaker 1: of the big famous Vegas landmarks and quite far away

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Speaker 1: from the Venetian. Yeah, because um the Venetians where half

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Speaker 1: of CS was taking. The other half was in the

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas Convention Center. So we make our our jaunty

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Speaker 1: walk over to to Blaggio. We get there and we

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Speaker 1: realized that we have to do we have to use

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Speaker 1: this application on our phones for the for the Metaverse

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Speaker 1: party thing to work. It's like this a R application

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Speaker 1: that and they did tell you if you have a

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Speaker 1: VR headset you should bring it. Yeah, I think one

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Speaker 1: person did at least, and bringing a charged phone, bring

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Speaker 1: a charge phone, bring your headphones. So we all, you know,

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Speaker 1: open up this QR code or whatever or link to

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Speaker 1: try to get this software working. And around twenty people

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Speaker 1: there are all are all met with perpetual loading screens.

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Speaker 1: Now a few people did have I saw one or

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Speaker 1: two people that this was working for. Mine loaded just

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Speaker 1: the VR avatars of people, but it was on like

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Speaker 1: a gray background. But it didn't look any of the

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Speaker 1: background or any of the the way it was supposed

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Speaker 1: to look. Because one guy had it more or less working.

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Speaker 1: I think it was basically it was a video like

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Speaker 1: a live feed of the Bellagio Fountain in front of

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Speaker 1: us because as his like camera scanned over it, it's

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Speaker 1: using the phone camera all of the different like a

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Speaker 1: bunch of different awkwardly jerking avatars kind of crudely dancing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in front of it. They did have legs ringing endorsement. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was It was supposed to be that

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Speaker 1: it was supposed to be. This this a r animated

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Speaker 1: experience thing sinc to the Blagio Fountain and to Viva

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Speaker 1: las Vegas, and that was what it was supposed to be.

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Speaker 1: The thing is only one or two people it was

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Speaker 1: working for. Everyone else had these loading screens or had

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Speaker 1: just the just had the avatars popped in with none

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Speaker 1: of the other features working um as before the Pelagio founded.

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Speaker 1: Like just like the guy the guy who was Reviva

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Speaker 1: before the final Viva, the guy running this party left.

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Speaker 1: He was gone quite rapidly. He exited the premises. He

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Speaker 1: took advantage of the pact fact that people were confused

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Speaker 1: and trying to figure out what was happening, and he escaped.

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Speaker 1: So we have all like twenty people not sure what

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Speaker 1: to do, and then we get we get an email

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Speaker 1: like ten minutes later saying that thank you for coming

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Speaker 1: to the show of I hope you enjoy your time

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Speaker 1: at beer Park, which is across the street. Your Park

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Speaker 1: is a place, by the way. I know it's it

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Speaker 1: seems like a joke name, but it's quite large business.

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Speaker 1: So we were told that the party had a reservation

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Speaker 1: at beer Park and that we were all going to

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Speaker 1: go over to beer Park and you know, by the way,

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Speaker 1: the people heading up there. It's not just like pieces

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Speaker 1: of ship like us. There's like some serious industry people,

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Speaker 1: like people who are including like the CEO of arguably

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Speaker 1: the most prominent virtual reality game company. Yeah there was

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Speaker 1: the CEO or whatever, the CEO. Yeah, you like, there

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Speaker 1: was people who who have been involved in very popular

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Speaker 1: VR games, who are industry industry entrepreneurs, engineers. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: other other other like VR enthusiasts and then also people

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Speaker 1: like us, I assume who just wanted to watch it

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Speaker 1: crash and burn, which it did. It was just there

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Speaker 1: to be the sickos in the window laughing. Yes, So

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Speaker 1: we're told they have that. They were told that they

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Speaker 1: have the reservation for beer Park. Like, okay, well, the

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Speaker 1: a R technology didn't work. That's that's a bummer. You know,

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Speaker 1: it would not happen. It's not the first failed demo

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Speaker 1: I've seen. It's stuff happens. Maybe they didn't test it

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Speaker 1: for how many people was there? They thought too many? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like who like actually who knows? Um, but at least

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Speaker 1: we can hang out with people. But so but the guy,

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Speaker 1: the guy running the party laughs, so he's just gone, uh.

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Speaker 1: But everyone else makes make you know, like you know,

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Speaker 1: like a dozen or a dozens of people make our

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Speaker 1: way over to beer Park and we're told that there

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Speaker 1: is in fact no reservation for this party. But he

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Speaker 1: has called them. They don't know what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Could we please get out of the way. So we

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Speaker 1: start our way to have this staircase and that we

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Speaker 1: then we that we stop halfway down because someone at

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Speaker 1: beer Park says, there is like there's a bar in

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Speaker 1: the very back of of of and they're not selling

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Speaker 1: alcohol there, but you guys can stand around and buy

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Speaker 1: from other places. We can stand there. As they figured

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Speaker 1: out what's going on, we later learn that the that

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Speaker 1: the guy who's who's running the party, who's who did

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Speaker 1: not show up, uh, did have a did have a

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Speaker 1: reservation for six people at one table. Yeah, Garrison, that

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Speaker 1: man hung himself at Circus Circus within thirty minutes of

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Speaker 1: the show. I do know. He actually made his way

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Speaker 1: over to beer Park at some point, but he did

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Speaker 1: not go to where everyone else was going. He was

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Speaker 1: at the other side of the bar, but he was

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Speaker 1: not talking to anyone else from the party. So that was.

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Speaker 1: That was the second party we went to, which was

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Speaker 1: of a similar level of competency. So that is that

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Speaker 1: is the crypto and people did show up for the

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Speaker 1: second part. So I'm gonna have to give it to

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Speaker 1: the metaverse. I mean, they change locations three times from

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Speaker 1: the Plaza to the Blagia Fountain to be a park

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Speaker 1: um with you know, variety of issues along the way.

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Speaker 1: In terms of the VR stuff, we actually got to try,

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Speaker 1: so Robert tried like I think three or four different

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Speaker 1: haptic feedbacks. I tried every haptic product I could find,

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Speaker 1: and haptic again, for the folks who don't know this,

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Speaker 1: whenever you like touch your phone and it like buzzes

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Speaker 1: like let you know that you're you're typing or whatever. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's haptic feedback, And that's kind of the crudest form

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Speaker 1: of it. But the idea and the hope of the

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Speaker 1: people kind of playing with the technologies that you can

301
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Speaker 1: find ways to basically like simulate a keyboard so that

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Speaker 1: you would be able to touch type in a keyboard

303
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Speaker 1: that's not really there because you know, you would be

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Speaker 1: wearing a glove or something that would simulate the feeling

305
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Speaker 1: so well. And so this is a key part of

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Speaker 1: when you think about, like what would it take to

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Speaker 1: go from where VR is now, which is a pretty

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Speaker 1: visually immersive and can be a pretty auditorially immersive experience,

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Speaker 1: but that leaves the rest of your body isn't there, yeah,

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Speaker 1: um to something that is kind of more like a

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Speaker 1: holidack where you feel and and like can you know

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Speaker 1: even people have talked about like smell eVision and stuff,

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Speaker 1: which um is a little further behind, but like it's

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Speaker 1: something that's actually engaging the entirety of your of your

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Speaker 1: physical person at the very at least not being able

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Speaker 1: to like walk through walls, or at least more of

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Speaker 1: your physical person than just your head and eyes and ears. UM.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's the goal. So the first one I

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Speaker 1: tried was the tax suit, which basically feels like and

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Speaker 1: I wrote this was in the last episode. It feels

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Speaker 1: like having much of in sixty four bumble packs on

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Speaker 1: your body. It does not mimic the feeling of hugging

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Speaker 1: or touching a human being. Another one that we tried,

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Speaker 1: I tried one that was just gloves that did a

325
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Speaker 1: pretty good job of and and the tax suit gloves

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Speaker 1: did a pretty good job of mimicking keyboards UM, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of interesting. I don't think it would allow

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Speaker 1: me to touch type, but it was it was neat

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Speaker 1: to see that kind of developing a little bit. UM.

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Speaker 1: Then we tried one by O W O. It's like

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Speaker 1: big capital O S little W We're just going to

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Speaker 1: call it oh oh oh um. And that was like

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Speaker 1: a full body um suit, where it's basically it's like

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Speaker 1: a skin tight like a workout shirt UM with a

335
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,000
Speaker 1: bunch of e G pads underneath it, so the e

336
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,520
Speaker 1: G pads make direct connection to your skin. And then

337
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,359
Speaker 1: if you have ever engaged in the kind of kinky

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00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,879
Speaker 1: sex play that involves like a violet wand, which is

339
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,800
Speaker 1: a device that erotically electrocutes you or your partner, you

340
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:26,480
Speaker 1: can also like drawing each other with it. Or if

341
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,280
Speaker 1: you've ever used like any of those fake sex cattle

342
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Speaker 1: prods they used to sell them at the kink dot

343
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Speaker 1: Com arena in that old Castle in San Francisco, if

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00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,359
Speaker 1: you ever used any of those, it's like that, So

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00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,920
Speaker 1: you're just like getting zapped a bunch all over your body.

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Speaker 1: And on the low settings it's kind of like a

347
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,680
Speaker 1: nicer massage gun thing, and on the higher settings it's

348
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 1: actually really cruciating. It's actually I tried this one today.

349
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,120
Speaker 1: I put on the little skin tight and jumper thing,

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Speaker 1: and even just during the calibration settings, it was really

351
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,080
Speaker 1: fascinating because it's even though the electrodes are only on

352
00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,560
Speaker 1: like a few of your muscle sections that the current

353
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 1: runs through, and it doesn't really it doesn't necessarily have

354
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Speaker 1: like you know, like a taser shocky feeling. It just

355
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,920
Speaker 1: it just is like muscle pain it's involuntarily contracting your muscle. Yeah,

356
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,119
Speaker 1: so it's it's it's not just like static e shocky stuff.

357
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,359
Speaker 1: Um there was you know, get you know. The cool

358
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 1: thing about this is that it can simulate you know,

359
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 1: an entry round and an exit wound. So Robert was

360
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 1: playing the popular VR game Pistol Whip where you get

361
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 1: shot by dudes and you do like a John Wick

362
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 1: thing basically, and you can feel you know, like bullet

363
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,440
Speaker 1: goes in, bullet goes out. Yeah and yeah. So it's

364
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 1: not just like a rumbull pack type things actually depth

365
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 1: to the feeling. And one of the things they simulated

366
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,080
Speaker 1: it was really cool is getting stabbed and then having

367
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,359
Speaker 1: the knife twist was the worst with the worst feeling

368
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,800
Speaker 1: for me is like honestly like getting shot in like

369
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,199
Speaker 1: the Chester shoulders. It was. It was painful, but it

370
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 1: wasn't necessary. It wasn't like painful on like a bad way.

371
00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 1: He was like, Oh, I'm playing a game and this

372
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 1: is this, this is a published and it's it hurts,

373
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 1: but it's kind of fun. The stabbing was awful. I

374
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 1: would seek to avoid it. It was very painful because

375
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 1: all the all the stuff like below my chest was

376
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,359
Speaker 1: way more uncomfortable and painful versus like chest and arms

377
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: was kind of was kind of fun. Yeah, And I

378
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 1: don't know again whether or not you find this appealing

379
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 1: will have to do with the way that you like

380
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 1: to do your video games. But what I will say

381
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 1: is that from a perspective of just like enjoying a

382
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,360
Speaker 1: an FPS type game, it it is the first time

383
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 1: I've been playing a game that's had some sort of

384
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:37,159
Speaker 1: feedback when you're hit that actually is negative reinforcement, like

385
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,919
Speaker 1: you do not want to get hit um and you

386
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,240
Speaker 1: actually kind of dread getting hit. It. Actually it makes

387
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 1: the game a lot more immersive. Yeah, and like this

388
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 1: that's that's that that's like a bullshit phrase people use

389
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 1: for like this is immersive, Like no, this actually like

390
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,160
Speaker 1: this actually introducing consequence thought. I think that they put

391
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 1: into something like how do we simulate a knife wound?

392
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 1: How do we actually do like a through and through gunshot?

393
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,639
Speaker 1: And and it all so makes your makes your VR

394
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 1: body feel more connected to your actual body, yeah, which

395
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 1: is something that usually doesn't happen. Yeah, you feel a

396
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 1: sense of like defensiveness towards your person um and it

397
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 1: like when I was trying to like dodge the bullets

398
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,719
Speaker 1: and ship like I actually felt it didn't just kind

399
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: of feel like I was playing a game, Like my

400
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: body felt more on the line, which was Which is

401
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 1: interesting because this is purely we're talking about this kind

402
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 1: of in the context of stuff that matters, and the

403
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 1: stuff that matters here, not that gaming doesn't matter, but

404
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 1: the stuff that actually matters here is the ability of

405
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 1: people to simulate accurately life in a digital form. Because

406
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 1: if that can be done, then a lot of other

407
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 1: weird things are possible, many of which you're good, some

408
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 1: of what you're bad, many of what you're bad. Um,

409
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the next the next day we're

410
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,640
Speaker 1: talking about has a bit more packed complication. And because

411
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 1: that's what I want to say, all the only application

412
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 1: I saw for this was in gaming. This does not

413
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 1: I didn't see like a metaverse application of this, Like

414
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 1: this is not going to help in Zuckerberg, Like you

415
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: don't want to unless you can get mugged in the

416
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: metaverse and some some asshole ten you're will lock up

417
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: to you with a knife and stab you. Well, you know,

418
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,719
Speaker 1: that's a good point when we're talking about is it

419
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: possible that people will be living increasing quantity like portions

420
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,239
Speaker 1: of their life in persistent digital environments. One thing I

421
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 1: would not want to have as a suit like this

422
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: because people will find ways to access it well. And

423
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: we've talked to we've talked to some people who program

424
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 1: for these things, who are like other versions of them,

425
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: but the metaverse actually at the Metaverse party, they funk

426
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: up and it's like getting electrocuted. You can't take it

427
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: off yourself. It's a serious problem. There is a competing

428
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: model to the Obo suit called the Tesla Suit, not

429
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 1: not made by Elon Musk's Tesla, different company, but similar

430
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 1: similar degrees of care towards safety. Maybe I mean it

431
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 1: is this is the most high end haptic suit that

432
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: does this electro shock thing. Um And he said that

433
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 1: he has watched demos where people have been in the

434
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: suit and the suit like glitches and all of the

435
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 1: things turn on and like at full capacity, which means

436
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 1: you're you you're get You're not only in extruciating pain,

437
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: you also you also just like can't move your body,

438
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: like you're stuck frozen in horrible pain until someone turns

439
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 1: the suit off. So like there is there is this

440
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: type of like logistical problems with with these sort of

441
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 1: things as well, and it's one of those. Like the

442
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 1: first that I had when using that thing was like,

443
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: this is kind of neat, uh, this what makes this

444
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: actually would make certain video games better. And the second

445
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 1: thought I had was, I would only ever want to

446
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: have this on if I was playing a video game

447
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: that was not connected to the Internet, because the instant

448
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,880
Speaker 1: I would never want to invocage in a multiplayer game

449
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 1: where I could be that it would be horrible constantly. Bet.

450
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: I mean obviously, like you you can have lower settings

451
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,360
Speaker 1: on these things to make it not painful at all,

452
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: and you do get to pick that. But I I

453
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: tried to go as far as I could. But in

454
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: terms of practical applications beyond just gaming, the next haptic

455
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: suit that we tried, this company is working with governments.

456
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: Haptics is the is the is the company. We know

457
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: that they do the thing where they like remove our

458
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 1: um and they have they have military contracts. We we

459
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: we saw we saw army people testing it out, two

460
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: employees of the United States Army, but they already are

461
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: working with law enforcement UM well and you know industrial

462
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: government training video of Jeff Bezos us with their products

463
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 1: to like wirelessly control a robot that's like based off

464
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: of human hands in order to do that. But they

465
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: work with governments, they work with businesses, corporations. This is

466
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: this isn't really a consumer thing at this point because

467
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: the full suit, I think they said the next it's

468
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: going to be like eighty thou dollars. No, No, the

469
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: the gloves are four thousand, the gloves and battery pack.

470
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 1: The next full suit that they're doing, it's gonna be

471
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: eighty thou dollars or four months subscription. But that's for

472
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 1: their suit that's not even released yet. That is their

473
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 1: next model. Yeah, not a consumer Like theoretically, if you're

474
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: willing to pay the monthly fee, you could have this thing, um,

475
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: but that's not the intent. But I think what's interesting

476
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: about it is this is kind of where all of

477
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: the technology is going and and the main difference is

478
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 1: that the haptics that we had used on us in

479
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: the lower end gaming products, where again they're basically just

480
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: kind of like shocking you a bunch in specific ways

481
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: or just like vibrating, yeah, or just like vibrating, whereas

482
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 1: this suit used air prect is like pneumatic, so it

483
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 1: was basically you have these gloves on, and the gloves

484
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: are much more cumbersome than the other gloves. Um. You

485
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: have these gloves on and they're like blowing air onto

486
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 1: you parts of your hand. It's it's it's compressed air

487
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: that that that feeds into these little sensor things that

488
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: actually go in they they make contact with your again

489
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 1: and so you're the feeling is is real um in

490
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: a way that the other haptic stuff isn't UM. And

491
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't. First off, it does not actually it does

492
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 1: not feel like you're getting pots of air blown on

493
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: your hands. No, it does not. M One of the

494
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: things that they did in there is they simulated holding

495
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: your hand under a leak with drops of I think

496
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 1: it was oil in that, but like drops of a

497
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 1: liquid coming down on your hand, and it felt like

498
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: having water cup pour onto your hands without wetness, which

499
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: is an odd feeling. UM. But the they had like

500
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: a bonzaiet tree which kind of felt like it felt

501
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: like a prickly almost yeah, it felt it felt like

502
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: it felt like a prickly plant. Running your hands through

503
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: both plants. If you'd closed your eyes and you'd run

504
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: your hands through both plants, they would feel like different

505
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: plants um, And one thing you could do is you

506
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: could grab the vine with leaves on it and pull

507
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: your hand down. The leaves would come off the way

508
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: they would in a real vine and felt it. You

509
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: can feel it. And then you're hand is full of

510
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: leaves at the end and you feel them too as

511
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: they like slide off of your hand, which is a

512
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: kind of fidelity I didn't really realize was possible at

513
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: the moment um. There was other stuff that really there

514
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: was some stuff that worked better than like the turning

515
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 1: wheels and stuff was kind of like whatever. Um, the

516
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: knobs and buttons weren't great. I actually thought that the

517
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: weak point was turning knobs. It just felt kind of

518
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: shocky um. But the straw. There was one where the rope. Yeah,

519
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: there was a rope hanging from the ceiling, so you

520
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: could like pull it to like it was kind of

521
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: like attached to you were on basically like a fake

522
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: airship in this guy, so it's kind of like attached

523
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: to a horn. So you could pull the rope and

524
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: then you could the way you can grab a rope

525
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 1: and pull it down hand over hand. You could pull

526
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: it and it felt like it felt just like pulling

527
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: a rope through your hand like it was like if

528
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: if I was if I had no near perfect fidelity,

529
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: if I had no like visual sensory perception, I would

530
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: think I am pulling a rope through my hand. It

531
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 1: felt perfect. And there there were there was a moment

532
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: where I was at a desk and I had to

533
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 1: open it, and so I like, I pull like and

534
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: normally in VR, if you're like opening a desk or something,

535
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: you just kind of like grab and pull in the

536
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: right area and it opens the drawer. This I I

537
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: felt like there was a big metal kind of like

538
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: hook thing that glast that you get your hand up

539
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: into pull. So I pull it out and I feel

540
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 1: my hand inside that thing as I pull it. And

541
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: then at a certain point I stuck my hand into

542
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: the drawer to push it open the rest of the way,

543
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: which I do on real drawers when they get stuck.

544
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: And it worked the same way that it does in

545
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,239
Speaker 1: a real drawer, and it it felt like one I mean.

546
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: And the other thing that was impressive about that is

547
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: that even just I I instinctually picked up a mug

548
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: by putting like half my hand inside the mug and

549
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: holding onto the other side, which you can't really you

550
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: can't do that if you're using VR controllers, and you

551
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: can't even do that if you're doing like hand tracking,

552
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: It just it just doesn't work. But that you you

553
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: put your hand in pinch both sides of the mug

554
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: and picked it up and like just that by itself,

555
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: like as you're like feeling the mug in your hands,

556
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: like extremely impressive right now, which kind of sounds silly

557
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: because you're talking about like the mechanics of grabbing a mug,

558
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: but it's it's actually also talking the capacity for mimicking

559
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: reality with close to perfect fidelity, which um I would

560
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: not have guessed walking into the show you could do

561
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: the things that we're doing. Yeah, and and we talked.

562
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: We talked to one of the products managers they're they're

563
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: talking where they were speaking about how how they're using

564
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: this for workplace training, but also even even talking about

565
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: how you don't want to just use this tech for

566
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: workplace training because then people will get too used to

567
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: doing it in VR and then when they actually go

568
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: into the real world will actually be completely lost because

569
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: it's not close enough to to the VR. So they

570
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: actually talked about how you know VR it can only

571
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: do so much you want to you want to use

572
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: you know, VR training as a supplemental thing for also

573
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: in person training and kind of go back and forth

574
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: so that you actually stay grounded in what you're gonna

575
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: be actually doing. But then you can also use the

576
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: VR as an assistant, so you can you know, train

577
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: it on, you can train on your own, but also

578
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: you get to apply it to the real world so

579
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: you don't get stuck just doing the stuff in the

580
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: in the digital world, which I thought was an interesting

581
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: comment from the person who's like trying to sell the technology. Yeah, yeah, which, yeah,

582
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: And that was kind of the thing. One of the

583
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: neat things about c E S. So most of the

584
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: people you encounter and and CS for those of you

585
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: have never been to a trade show, it's rooms that

586
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: are bigger than you ever thought. Rooms could be filled

587
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: with thousands of booths, and some of the booths contain

588
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: earth movers by the company CAT that are like the

589
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: size of a mansion in terms of their actual like mass,

590
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: and some of the booths are crazy person sitting with

591
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: his homemade air conditioner and his cut open gloves explaining

592
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: to you the new way he's figured out how to

593
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: make air condition your coils. Um, and so you get

594
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: this mix of At the big corporate booths, a lot

595
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: of the time, like p are people who are hired

596
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: to sell a line and don't know what they're talking

597
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: about and they're just trying to hype a product. And

598
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: then inventors uh and people who like have are actually

599
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: have actually made the thing in front of you and

600
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: are very excited about it and are kind of incapable

601
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: of bullshitting you. Sometimes they believe irrationally in their products,

602
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: but they don't they're not pr people. UM. And yeah,

603
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: I got that that feeling from the from the haptic people.

604
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: We should move on from metaverse, so I want to

605
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: talk about some of the other since we're doing the good.

606
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: The other products we saw or things that we saw

607
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: in mentions. We saw that that I made me kind

608
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: of hopeful about aspects of the future. So we we

609
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: saw some a R glasses and again VR is immersive.

610
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: A R is just kind of putting an overlay from

611
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: the digital world on the regular ship. You're wearing glasses

612
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: and you're seeing something that a computer is showing you. Um.

613
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: One of the things that we saw that I was

614
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: most impressed by was by a company called zis v

615
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: U z I x UM, and it was there Zander glasses,

616
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: Zander with an X, like the guy from Buffy. UM.

617
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: And these are glasses that are designed to provide real

618
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: time captioning those with hearing loss. So you are wearing

619
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,239
Speaker 1: them and you are conversing with people all around you,

620
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: and you see every word that's being set around you,

621
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: including the words you say on screen in front of

622
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: you live caption ing. UM. And it worked extremely I

623
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: didn't see it miss or funk up any words. It's

624
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: not like punctuated or anything. But it was perfectly easy

625
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: to follow. And it works for all of the voices

626
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: around you. UM to the extent that I could tell.

627
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: And I'm not hard of hearing in a way that

628
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: I need captioning glasses, but I think that if you are,

629
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: this is kind of a miracle product. It worked incredibly

630
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: well as far as I could tell. And UM, I

631
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: think a good amount of thought from what they said,

632
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: at least it seems like a good amount of thought

633
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: went into the fact that if you are acting as

634
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: someone's ears, you have a responsibility to take care of

635
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: their privacy. UM. Because all of it was local. None

636
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: of it was going into the cloud. There's no appar

637
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: ap it doesn't touch your fucking phone. It's just it's

638
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: just the glasses. It's that's all it is. There's no Internet,

639
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: there's no apps, just the glasses. So that was one

640
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: of the coolest things that I think we saw there

641
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: and was just also a fairly rare, legitimate example of

642
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: a need being met through fascinating technology that I think

643
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: could really improve people's lives. Yeah. One of the pair

644
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: of air glasses I tried was by ant Reality Optics.

645
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: They had a few different models. They're the ones that

646
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: make the actual lenses. They had models that were that

647
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: you could switch between A R and VR. It was

648
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: actually pretty impressive how there. They look pretty much like

649
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: regular glasses. Um, the specific A R and VR ones

650
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: look a little bit funky, but they're not. They're not

651
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: completely ridiculous. But you could with a button you could

652
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: switch between having like the A our path through mode too.

653
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: It's like you can see you see the A R

654
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: screen and then but you also see the world around you.

655
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: Then you can hit to the VR mode and it

656
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: blacks out the real world and you just see the

657
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: VR stuff and that that was. That was pretty impressive.

658
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 1: They also had a full frame A R glasses that

659
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: again looked look look relatively normal in terms of like,

660
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: you know, this is the regular pair of glasses. And

661
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: but this was the only pair of air glasses I

662
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: saw at the show that had the A R going

663
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: over the course of like the entire lens. All the

664
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: other ones had like a little box that they operated

665
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: in in some cases up your vision when you didn't

666
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: have yeah, and it's like hard to it's hard for

667
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: your eye. Yeah, and it's hard it's hard for your

668
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: eye to know what to focus on. Um. But this

669
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: the A R was was over. There was was across

670
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: the entirety of the lens, and that one was was

671
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: very nice to uh to test out. Now. I think

672
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: one of the things that we're kind of talking around

673
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: here is the fact that if you've paid attention to this,

674
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: you'll note that none of the really cool stuff we're

675
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: talking about is made by a giant tech Companacebook, Yeah, Facebook,

676
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: Matter or like Samsung, Panasonic, um LG. We went to

677
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,439
Speaker 1: those booths. Those are the largest boosts at the show.

678
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: They're fucking massively million dollar booths. God knows how much money.

679
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: UM Panasonic spent had one of the largest boosts at

680
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: the show, which had probably was tens of millions of dollars.

681
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: It is not cheap to get the list state in

682
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: the LBCC. They had like the third largest booth in

683
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: the entire show. Massive. They didn't really have any of

684
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: the problem. They didn't have any products Panasonic makes things. No,

685
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: they had like they had like two cameras and like

686
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: maybe like ten lenses, but like not not multiple ones

687
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 1: of those, just those the only two cameras and like

688
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: ten lenses. That that's all they had for this massive,

689
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 1: massive booths, some fucking TVs and the displays and like

690
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: like not not not displaces for sale. It was like

691
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: just like like projected displays of people using their stuff.

692
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: Like they didn't they didn't have anything to show at all.

693
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 1: But they did have They did have a breakdancing stage

694
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: and they brought up DJ Funky and his Breakdancing Crew,

695
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: which I swear were pulled right out of Times Square

696
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: in two thousand and three um and just thrust into

697
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 1: into into our reality. It was deeply awk because it's

698
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: these very like clearly people who spend most of their

699
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: time doing breakdancing shows out in public in streets and

700
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: crowded cities, and a bunch of confused Japanese businessmen just

701
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: like staring back at them, and they're being like, come on,

702
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: come on, make some noise. And the Japanese businessmen are

703
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,240
Speaker 1: continuing to do not want to make any noise. Don't

704
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: understand why this is being asked of them. Um. It

705
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 1: was extremely funny. Um, but uh yeah. And and that

706
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: was one of kind of the takeaways for me was

707
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: the lack of ideas from big tech. Most of what

708
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: the big companies were showing was like either a million

709
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: different cars and you know, our technologies, this car technology,

710
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 1: and I'm sure they're all great cars. Cars were very popular.

711
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: That that was one of the bigger trends we saw

712
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: was how much people were pushing their EV cars, which

713
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: is I think if you want to read something about that,

714
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: it's bad news for Tesla. I also don't think it's

715
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: good news for the rest of us, because just replacing

716
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: all of the cars on the road with e V

717
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: cars does not solve many of the fundamental problems that

718
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: we have, including even emissions because even yeah, it's not

719
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: easy to make that a lot of that electricities generated

720
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: and like yeah, some of them look neat. There were

721
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: a lot of e bikes, a lot of a lot

722
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: of e bikes which all look neat, And of course

723
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: that's going to be a huge thing, a big, a

724
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: big imputu for the e bikes right now is that

725
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: Ukrainians have been using them very effectively in combination with

726
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: drones to murder Russian soldiers, and the U. S Military

727
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: is actually put in large orders for e bikes as

728
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: a result of that, So I suspect you're going to

729
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: see a lot more ebikes geared towards military applications too

730
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: in the near future. But like what most of the

731
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: big companies had were like TVs, like like they fucking Samsung,

732
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: like Samsung and LG mostly big TVs, and like LG

733
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: had one that it was like stored in a little

734
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: box where it was all rolled up and it was

735
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: like when you press a button, kind of like the

736
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: you ever had a hotel that has automatic blackout curtains

737
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: that kind of works that way, um, but which is

738
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: like conceptually like, oh, neat, you've developed a TV that

739
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: can fold and put itself away, But also is this

740
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: really better than my current TV in a way that's

741
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,479
Speaker 1: going to alter my life? Is this Like yeah, there isn't.

742
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: There's not much in terms of actual new innovation. Like

743
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 1: they were trying to make their transparent TVs seem really

744
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,959
Speaker 1: cool and new, but like that's not new tech either.

745
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: It's just that people don't really like using them outside

746
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: of like the corporate space. Yeah, transparent TVs are neat

747
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: for if you're decorating a space, if you're doing like

748
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 1: a lobby. Likes room because it's a worse experience. But

749
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: but like so like I I think out of all

750
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,439
Speaker 1: the big companies, LG had the best booth experience. Um

751
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: I walked through Samsung after waiting in a massive line

752
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: and all it looked half like a hospital and half

753
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: like an Ikea where you're walking through and they're kind

754
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: of showing you all their different like smart appliance products,

755
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: but nothing is like actually new or innovative. It's all

756
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: it's all the same ship you can find it at

757
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: like the best Buy. It's not it's not cool or interesting.

758
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: You're just waiting in line to walk through these little

759
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: Ikea homes that that, and they show you how you

760
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: can now use you can now use like Microsoft teams

761
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: from your television and you're like, oh, a lot of

762
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: people bragging about their Microsoft Teams integration. Look, you and

763
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: I both have to use Teams for work sometimes always

764
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 1: the worst part of my day. But but now, but now, Robert,

765
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: with with your new rollable TV, you too can use

766
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: Microsoft Teams. Finally, a rollable TV that automatically takes me

767
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: into my team's room. So would you bootop Microsoft Teams?

768
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: And you and you don't want to be there? When

769
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: I first when I first on Firefox and it says

770
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: this browser is not supported, You're going to have to

771
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: use another browser? Does start Microsoft Teams. You probably wouldn't

772
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: run into that issue. If you had your rollerble TV

773
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: that was a smart TV, they could connect it directly

774
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: to Microsoft Teams. Yeah. Um, I hate it. The Samsung

775
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 1: booth was horrible. Sony mostly had PlayStations, which is fine,

776
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 1: that's their people love them stations, and Masonic was a

777
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: complete bust. LG at least had some interesting stuff, like

778
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: they had this one projection powered TV extension room where

779
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: you have you have an image or a three D

780
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: a three D like a three D video file of

781
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: the of the thing on the television that then projects

782
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: out into the entirety of the room at least that

783
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: was cool and new, So there was there was no

784
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: stated release date for this, no stated price point complication

785
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: because honestly, what what movies are going to work in that? Now?

786
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: The answer is that what you want to do is

787
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: you wanna combine that kind of drawing AI and use

788
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: it so you can run a movie through it and

789
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: it will finish the rest of the scenes. So, for example,

790
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: you could put on Boogie Nights that opening scene where

791
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,919
Speaker 1: it's that one long shot as they go through it's

792
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: just all around you, but everyone looks a little wrong

793
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: and their hands are tweaked and fucked up, and we

794
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: have mid Journey continuing up the movie to fill the

795
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings. When you look to your right,

796
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: one of the elves has hands that just curl up

797
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: in himself and then you just take a shipload of

798
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: acid and permanently damage your brain. I think the funniest

799
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: thing at the l G Booth though all the despite

800
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: being corny, was still miles miles better than anything else

801
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: in Panasonic or inside Samsung was the Home of the

802
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: Future was. They had three different Home of the Futures,

803
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: which was mostly talking about how do you smart appliances

804
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: and how to integrate them with your phone or whatever.

805
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: That that was most of what they were talking about.

806
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: But they had three actors in each of the home,

807
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: actual ass human being who are kind of kind of

808
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: doing like a kind of doing a presentation, kind of

809
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: doing a fourth wall breaking performance. It's a it was

810
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: a weird it was a weird mix of the mom

811
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 1: kept emphasizing that she was almost criminally incompetent at cooking

812
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: and thus had to be taught by a robot how

813
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 1: to make pasta. But like they're talking about like their

814
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 1: kids and my husband, and it's like it's a weird

815
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 1: performance art thing. But honestly, that way of presenting their

816
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: products was much more enjoyable to watch than walking through

817
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: the Samsung booth who didn't have any of that you

818
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: were just walking through like it's despite being silly, it

819
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 1: was still much much more enjoyable. Yeah, and so I

820
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 1: have been attending c e s since two thousand ten,

821
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 1: not every year, but all and I try to hit

822
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: it every couple of years just to kind of keep

823
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 1: abreast of what's not just like what's possible, because you

824
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: always see some exciting new stuff that you wouldn't have

825
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: guessed was a thing, but also to just kind of

826
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: get an eye for how the tech industry is talking

827
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: about itself to itself. Um. And the thing that struck

828
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: me most was how completely out of the driver's seat

829
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: the big tech companies were, um and not even really

830
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: even not even trying. Google's big Box was not in

831
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: the main convention center their main booth. They had it

832
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: outside the convention center. And it does not seem to

833
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: be a focus of much coverage, right people, people are

834
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: not do not care. It's just more phones and it's

835
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: like Razors. They're right, the company makes gaming laptops, and

836
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: they make perfectly fine gaming laptops. But it's also just like, well,

837
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: now I can see what the new sixteen inch Razor

838
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: looks like. It looks like a Razor laptop. Um, you know,

839
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 1: I can go to Lenovo and see what they had

840
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: actually a couple of cool laptop Leniva. I was bummed

841
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: because they took away the laptop clit. They did take

842
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: the clitter iss off of the laptop, which is a shame.

843
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: Although they have a semi clitterest button on the side

844
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: of the phone. It's red like the old Anyway, whatever, um,

845
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: look up Lenovo clitter iss or just type clitterus into

846
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: red tube. Um don't, well, I don't know, whatever, it's

847
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: your life. Uh So the Lenovo has like I mean,

848
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,720
Speaker 1: there's some like, oh, here's a laptop with two screens

849
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: that doesn't completely suck. Um, you know, here's a laptop

850
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: that is in a slightly better form factor, but it's

851
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:40,760
Speaker 1: there's kind of they've given up the idea that like, um,

852
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 1: there's anything kind of but iterative, Like here's TVs that

853
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 1: are slightly better than your current TV, but not in

854
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: a way that you can notice. And that's most of

855
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 1: like the products there, which is like, well, on paper,

856
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: this is slightly better than the thing I have, but

857
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: I don't think I would actually notice a difference in

858
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: And when you're seeing that from the companies that are

859
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: put spinning thirty million twenty, you have a many fucking

860
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 1: millions of dollars to be at C E S and

861
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 1: have god knows how many billions that they put into

862
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,320
Speaker 1: R and D when that's what they're bringing to the table.

863
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: And there's just like three nerds in a tiny booth

864
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 1: in a corner of a room that have a device

865
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: that like is capable of reading all of the speech

866
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: around you and translating and like captioning it live. Or

867
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 1: there's those I mean that little not a massive company,

868
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: although not you know, clearly a decent amount of backing

869
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,439
Speaker 1: doing that kind of ship with happticks like that's all

870
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: of the that's the I think that the main takeaway

871
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: to me is like there's big tech um seems to

872
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: have entirely given up driving the conversation about what the

873
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: future is going to look like. Even I don't take

874
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: as a bad thing. Actually, even we went to the

875
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: John Dear booth and they had this, They had this

876
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: u AI assisted way to scan your crops and locate

877
00:45:55,719 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: where weeds are, and another kind of Amazon like one

878
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: of those gigantic um uh irrigation to drive it around.

879
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: It's like a hundred yards long, and it waters and

880
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: sprays pesticide. But it's it's the AI power thing that

881
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: recognizes things that are not crops and tries to remove them.

882
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: The case and point being like trying to spray pesticides

883
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 1: just on the weeds and not on the rest of

884
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 1: the crops. And it can it can go. It can

885
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: do this while operating at twelve hours an hour. This

886
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: this the person we talked to, They just started working

887
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: for John Deer because this technology was developed at a

888
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: different company that John Deer just bought. Like John Deere

889
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: didn't make this, other companies did, and then they just

890
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: bought it. I think that's just another interesting these case

891
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:42,919
Speaker 1: of like that was just another small, random company who

892
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: was doing you know, innovative farming technology that then you know,

893
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: another big company with money just decided to buy and

894
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: be like, hey, this is our thing now, And I

895
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: think I want to We'll do another part where we

896
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: talk about the dark side. We'll talk about Palinteer, who

897
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: was there and who we got to chat with. We'll

898
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: talk about Valence, We'll talk more about John Deer, because

899
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: there's some some bleak ship in the John Deer stuff too. Um.

900
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: But I think this is the stuff that I found

901
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: broadly optimistic, even the ship that didn't work, because what

902
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 1: didn't work is like big tech, and I kind of

903
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: like the fact that big tech it seems stumbling and

904
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: crypto those particulars that didn't work. What I like is

905
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: the fact I like to see big tech stumbling out

906
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: the gate and a bunch of weirdos um putting some

907
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,439
Speaker 1: cool shit out there, and that actually makes me more

908
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: hopeful of like a future where technology makes things more accessible.

909
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: And uh, I get to wear motorized Exo skeletons. Oh,

910
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: let's end on the Exo skeleton. So we got to

911
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: finally try the motorized Exo skeleton, which is supposed to

912
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: basically increase your lifting capacity by sixty or seventy pounds. Um.

913
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 1: It's like a backpack you were in your back with

914
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: a chest piece and hooks around your hips and stuff. Uh,

915
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: and it works when you're like carrying loads and moving

916
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: and squatting. You don't have to move the way you

917
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: normal due to protect your lower back, which is kind

918
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 1: of harder on your knees. If you've ever liked done

919
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 1: cattle bell spots or dead lifts, um, when you when

920
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: you first put it on and they had you bend

921
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: over and then stand back up. The first thing we

922
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: did that, it was you kind of felt like you're

923
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 1: getting launched in there. Yeah yeah, because it's pushing up

924
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: with you, it's assisting you. Yeah, but you can move

925
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 1: like springs in your step as you're running. It worked

926
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: really well. It was very cool. I want to and

927
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: I was kind of shocked at how this is from

928
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: a German biotics German German biotics um, which is the

929
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: name of the company, and it was a really awesome

930
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: first off shout out the folks were fans, so that

931
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 1: was nice um, but it was really cool product for like,

932
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: the price point was surprisingly like we're not talking Toyota

933
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: factories can afford them. We're talking like if you are

934
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: if you work in like a mid like a small

935
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: automotive company or whatever, like you could afford one of

936
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: these suits. They're not they're sub tin k so they're

937
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: not cheap, but they're not like the kind of thing

938
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: that only a multi billion dollar corporation could have access

939
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: and it will actually improve the lives of workers. You

940
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: can rent them for two fifty bucks a month, which

941
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: is again very because it would allow you to work

942
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 1: lifting and hauling ship all day or do stuff like

943
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: on a farm like bail hay and huck hey up

944
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: without straining your knees and back, which you know, we

945
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: talk a lot about like the kind of devices oftentimes,

946
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 1: the kind of devices that make work more that are

947
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: like marketed to companies in this may make work more efficient,

948
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: but they don't try to they try to trying to

949
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: increase productivity, Yeah, by just doing more numbers, but not

950
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: actually improving the experience for the worker. Like. The human

951
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: side of this is that, well, maybe a bunch of

952
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: people who ruin their backs and knees working in factories

953
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: every day won't and that would be nice to uh

954
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: and and it seems like it works really well. Um.

955
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: So if you are currently working a job or run

956
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,280
Speaker 1: a company and your employees are destroying their backs and knees,

957
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: maybe reach out to the German biotics guys. Um. Also,

958
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: it does seem like I could rent or purchase one

959
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,399
Speaker 1: and then combine my plate carrier with the chest rig

960
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: purchased extra thigh and shoulder armor and have what is

961
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: effectively powered armor without straining my body. I can't say

962
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: any reason why that wouldn't work Garrison. Um, So come

963
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: back next week where I will have recreated space marine

964
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: power armor. Um, and soon after that gone mad with

965
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:35,280
Speaker 1: power and take over Circus Circus finally finally take over Garrison.

966
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 1: Why don't we end this by so Circus Circus most

967
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: beautiful place in the Las Vegas Strip if you've never been,

968
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: if you've ever read the book Feared Loathing, in Las Vegas.

969
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 1: You're watched the movie it's where Hunter Thompson starts hallucinating. Um. Now,

970
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:50,760
Speaker 1: the thing about Circus Circus is that it's a clown

971
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:55,240
Speaker 1: them to casino and it's supposed to be a circus

972
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: themed casino. There's a lot of clouds, but there is

973
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: a lot of cleans in their branding and that it was.

974
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: It's like one of the oldest casinos on the strip,

975
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: so everything is faded. They have not repainted it in

976
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 1: a very long time. It is the outside as a

977
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: shade of like move that you only get when the

978
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 1: sun has deeply damaged your building. You cannot purposely produce

979
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 1: set color. No man cannot create it, even with all

980
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: of our talents. Um. And it's it's just I perfectly

981
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: put Garrison up there because it's where I used to

982
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: stay on the strip and it's one of the worst

983
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: places in the world. I love it very much. UM.

984
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: Tell the people how you found Circus Circus gear. I mean,

985
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: initially I wanted I wanted more theming on the inside.

986
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: I think it's it's a bummer that clowns have gotten

987
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 1: such a bad rap in the past twenty years that

988
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:44,760
Speaker 1: I feel like they've kind of taken a back pedal

989
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: off the clown theming. Yeah, it's cowardice because with without

990
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: the clown, without the clown theming, it's just kind of

991
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:55,399
Speaker 1: dingy and depressing, where instead could be surreal and uncomfortable.

992
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: And I would prefer it to be surreal and uncomfortable.

993
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: That just did you depressing? See, this is why I

994
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: wanted to support you in your dream of sitting in

995
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 1: dark corners of Circus Surcus wearing your clown costume. I

996
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: brought a clown costume you could give. I mean, you

997
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: might get stabbed. I still I still have one more night.

998
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: That's right. Yesterday, yesterday, after I said to my hotel,

999
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 1: there was a Las Vegas police officer what time of

1000
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 1: day am? A Las Vegas Plue officer was walking the

1001
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: hallway in the very top floor where I'm staying. And

1002
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: then then I go downstairs and there's a whole team

1003
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: of police sweeping the ground at seven am. Probably just

1004
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: a murder um. So this has been it could happen here.

1005
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: Reporting from C E. S. We'll be back probably tomorrow

1006
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: to talk about the dark, horrifying things that we saw

1007
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: that made us deeply uncomfortable. And then we'll probably have

1008
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,799
Speaker 1: like in an audio documentary on the way as well,

1009
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: using audio that we recorded at CES so that will

1010
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: be integrated at some point in the future. Will continue

1011
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 1: to inform you of the future that is mercilessly rushing

1012
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: towards you and cannot be stopped and will inevitably crush

1013
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: you and everything and everyone you love. But in this

1014
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: episode in a good way, so true, So be happy. Ah,

1015
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: welcome back to it could happen me All that's horrible.

1016
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: You didn't like that, Garrison, Well, they can all be winners. Uh.

1017
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 1: This is part I Guess three of our coverage of

1018
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: the Consumer Electronics Show and what the tech industry has

1019
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 1: in store for all of us in the future. UM.

1020
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: Last episode we talked about the stuff we saw at

1021
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: c e S that was both cool and optimistic and

1022
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 1: spoke to some some potentially positive trends in tech, and

1023
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: today we're going to get back to what we do best,

1024
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,319
Speaker 1: which is making you feel bad. But first I want

1025
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: to open this up a little bit with Garrison. You're

1026
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: a Canadian. You're you're you're You're a very young Canadian

1027
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 1: twenty years old, grew up in a cult and now

1028
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: you have just seen Las Vegas, Nevada for the first time.

1029
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: Did it change your life? Um, I mean I guess so,

1030
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: I guess. I guess it did change my life in

1031
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: in my perception of what Las Vegas is and my

1032
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 1: desire to never return of But yeah, I mean we

1033
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: we've been able to spend probably around half our time

1034
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 1: at CES, the other half just uh so soaking in

1035
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:51,919
Speaker 1: the impeccable vibes of Las Vegas, Nevada. Yeah, I've been.

1036
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 1: I've been tour guiding you around, uh soberly and safely.

1037
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 1: We went to the Venetian and the Palaza. We took

1038
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: a very expensive gondola, right, that was an expensive gondola. Right,

1039
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: got to see the beautiful blue skies of Venice and

1040
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: all their four corners. Your reaction to seeing inside the

1041
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: Vinea if you've never been the Venetian, the interior of it,

1042
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: it's this massive casino, as they all are. They're all

1043
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 1: like small towns inside buildings massive, and the Venetian is

1044
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 1: like a replica of the city of Venice with a

1045
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: fake sky. And that is one giant mall. I believe

1046
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: it's the second largest hotel in the world. Yeah, it is.

1047
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:39,399
Speaker 1: Unbelievably large, uh, incredibly expensive, and the fidelity of like

1048
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: the fakeness of all of these things that are based

1049
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 1: on real stuff is is quite high to it's it's

1050
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: a whole thing. Yeah, it's it's really interesting because some

1051
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: of the most impactful stuff is all of like the

1052
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,359
Speaker 1: fake storefronts inside because in many ways they're kind of

1053
00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 1: just all glorified malls, um and glorified our aids, all

1054
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 1: slot machines. And it's funny because, like, you know, they

1055
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: make all of these facades on the inside, they have

1056
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 1: they have the ceiling painted to look like the sky,

1057
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's just it's so dark in there,

1058
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 1: like it's so like it's you see blue skies above you,

1059
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: but there's like no light anywhere, no light anywhere. There's

1060
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: no clocks in the rooms. No, you never know what

1061
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: time it is. You never see the outdoors. You're all

1062
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 1: isolated in these little corridors leading from one shop to

1063
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,240
Speaker 1: another with slot machines all along the way. You're flying

1064
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: back soon, are you looking forward to not being in

1065
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: a maze of lights designed to bewilder and and slowly

1066
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 1: damage you enough that you sit down at a craps table,

1067
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 1: very excited to see a real tree it's not a

1068
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 1: palm tree. Very excited to like touch grass because there's

1069
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:53,359
Speaker 1: no grass in Las Vegas. No, it's actually I think

1070
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: illegal in a lot of parts of the city to

1071
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,360
Speaker 1: have like a grass lawn, which is so one of

1072
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 1: the things. So obviously Vegas is in an objective sense,

1073
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 1: incredibly wasteful. A huge amount of resources get poured into

1074
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,920
Speaker 1: what is effectively just for gaming. But um, the other thing,

1075
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: like another thing that you have to hold in your

1076
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: mind when you recognize that, is that of all of

1077
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 1: the states in the Southwest utilizing the very limited water

1078
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 1: resources there. If I'm not mistaken, because it was just

1079
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: reading an article about this, Nevada is the one state

1080
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: that has reduced its water usage while it's grown by

1081
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 1: like three quarters of a million people. Um, so it

1082
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 1: contains multitudes. And also Nevada, like Vegas, is where the

1083
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: I'm spacing on the name right now. But basically you

1084
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: have all of these different states in the Southwest that

1085
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 1: are all kind of coming together to try to figure

1086
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: out how to deal with the fact that uh lake

1087
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 1: meat water levels are getting lower in the Colorado River

1088
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: is disappearing in some areas, and it is the only

1089
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 1: thing that makes life out here possible on the scale

1090
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: that it currently exists on um And a couple of

1091
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 1: months before c e S they had their big meeting

1092
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas in order to talk about how to

1093
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: try and deal with the calamitous water situation. So it

1094
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 1: is very much this city that is like filled with

1095
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:12,479
Speaker 1: simulacra of the past um which it uses to try

1096
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 1: to hack your brain to get you to stay up

1097
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: for four days in a row, gambling and spending tens

1098
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars. And it also because it's the

1099
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: best place to hold a convention, and in a very

1100
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 1: technical sense, like it is the most prepared for a

1101
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 1: large convention. They they this city can handle a hundred

1102
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: and fifty two hundred thousand people coming in overnight and

1103
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 1: needing places to stay and needing infrastructure in order. So

1104
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 1: it's also where a lot of things about the future

1105
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 1: get decided, which is when you spend enough time walking.

1106
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 1: It's kind of horrified the fact that important decisions get

1107
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: made in this in this realm of in this place

1108
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 1: that's designed to be mind altering. Yeah, it is, it is.

1109
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 1: It is crafted. We're not like joking about this. There

1110
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: are no clocks in the hotel rooms, like the casinos

1111
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: are crafted to damage your perception of time. Um so

1112
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: I don't know that somebody should maybe look into that.

1113
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 1: It's I do like when you're talking about like meat.

1114
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: Just a great example of the overall vibes of Las

1115
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 1: Vegas is as as lake meat is drying up, we

1116
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: keep finding bodies inside the lake like bodies have been

1117
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: there a long time, bodies of people who had alternate

1118
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: ideas about how Vegas should look. I mean a lot

1119
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: of them were probably yeah, well, walk walk to the Venetian,

1120
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: walked through Caesar's Palace. Uh, they had they had some

1121
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 1: nice vapor wave lieds displays outside. Briefly went into the

1122
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: Paris one, which was honestly, I think they Paris handled

1123
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:41,919
Speaker 1: the handled the fake sky the worst, because not only

1124
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: was this the sky painted ceiling so low, the the

1125
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 1: bottom part of the Eiffel Tower just stops where the

1126
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 1: ceiling stops. That they didn't even try. They don't even

1127
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: try to continue the illusion. It's just just as a

1128
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 1: is a hard stop. Um. We wrote a roller coaster.

1129
00:59:58,040 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 1: We we went to New York. We we went to

1130
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 1: the Little blurry for me because you were so drunk.

1131
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 1: But I just bought. I dumped the the attempt at

1132
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: like buying drinks from places and just got a handle

1133
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: of Woodford Reserve, which allegedly you can mix into one

1134
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 1: of the th HC Pina coladas that they have, and

1135
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 1: allegedly it's pretty good time. We we went to Rainforest Cafe.

1136
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: I unfortunately bought. You got sicker than I did eating

1137
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 1: Rainforest Cafe. The I I bought, I bought this volcano

1138
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: cake and it was quite regrettable. Um. And then we

1139
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 1: walked over to the New York themed casino inside Las Vegas.

1140
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: So if you want a city themed casino inside the

1141
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 1: city that you're in, you can go there. Just pretty

1142
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: different city creating microcostums within microcostums. You're just like the nesting,

1143
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 1: nesting all the way down. And I, in an effort

1144
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 1: to make both me and Robert vomit, we went on

1145
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: a roller coaster we've barely survived. That did feel like

1146
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 1: a very dangerous roller that was we were so close

1147
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 1: to vomiting everywhere. Just yeah, it was a good time.

1148
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 1: That was pretty fun. I felt great so that I

1149
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 1: just felt people would enjoy your your your first Vegas experience,

1150
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 1: and of course you stayed at Circus Circus, which we

1151
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: just walked through earlier today, one last time, one final,

1152
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 1: one final debt to see a family of four with

1153
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: thirty eight thousand dollars. I mentioned losing that Circus Circus, unbelieve,

1154
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 1: the worst casino in the world. I think, in order

1155
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 1: to segue into our next topic. It's pretty I think

1156
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: Las Vegas is probably one of the most heavily surveilled

1157
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: cities in the United States. It would be hard to

1158
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: find one with more, especially when you're on the Strip.

1159
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: Obviously there's a lot of lots of I have family

1160
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: who live here and they can go years without visiting

1161
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: the fucking strip because it's terrible. Um. But another another

1162
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 1: and so kind of in a similar sense. At CES,

1163
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 1: there was a lot of stuff about surveillance, a lot

1164
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 1: of stuff about, uh, you know, collect different new innovative

1165
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 1: ways to collect data on you and your and your

1166
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 1: appliances and what's in your home. Um, do we want

1167
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 1: to stalk start by talking about the the almdipure of

1168
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: of surveillance tech. Yeah. Um, there was actually just an

1169
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 1: article in the Washington Post about this about how unsafe

1170
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 1: quite a bit of it is. And one of the

1171
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 1: things that you may have caught in some of your news,

1172
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 1: because this was probably one of the more viral stories,

1173
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 1: is that there was a lot of piss based technology,

1174
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: a lot of p analyzation. Vivu had a thing there

1175
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 1: was there was at least three different p test kits

1176
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: that were on the show floor. I think some of

1177
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 1: them won't some some of the CS Innovation Awards where

1178
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: basically you can analyze what's in your urine. Yeah, and

1179
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 1: these are always framed as like it can let you

1180
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 1: give you confirmation if you have a U t I,

1181
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 1: it can help people who have all these different illnesses,

1182
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 1: it can help diabetics UM. And I'm sure there's a

1183
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 1: degree to which that's true. But I asked the Vivu

1184
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:04,440
Speaker 1: lady and I didn't speak with the There was another

1185
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 1: called um you scan by with things and and you

1186
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 1: you scans urine sensor analyzes hormone levels in urine. That's interesting, Yeah,

1187
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 1: which is is why it won some awards and also

1188
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:21,919
Speaker 1: why a bunch of folks, including Consumer Reports UM put

1189
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: out like a warning about it, saying like we shouldn't

1190
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: be celebrating this. This is an incredibly dangerous product because

1191
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 1: it all is going to your phone, the data is

1192
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: being collected digitally, and if, for example, you are in

1193
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: a state that heavily restricts women's access to reproductive healthcare, uh,

1194
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 1: there is literally nothing stopping the law enforcement or the

1195
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: government of those states from demanding all of that data

1196
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: be handed over, potentially even in real time. There's absolutely

1197
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 1: nothing stopping that. And the company has already said they'll

1198
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: comply with law enforcement with government requests, um. And there's

1199
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 1: they don't have any kind of plan for the fact

1200
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 1: that they are creating a way to surveile people's bodies

1201
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 1: um for the government. Um. And when I talked to

1202
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 1: the one of the representatives of Vivu, which is another

1203
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 1: one of these urine companies that I don't believe detect

1204
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: your hormone levels, but but does is generating a lot

1205
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: of data about your body, a lot of biometric data.

1206
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 1: And the most she would give me is that the

1207
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 1: data is encrypted, which great, that that's a fancy word

1208
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 1: for saying, yeah, we have it. We are. We are

1209
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: sitting here right after one of the most damaging data

1210
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: hacks of all time, which has h it was was

1211
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 1: last pass it was one of the massive password collecting

1212
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 1: apps where you basically like centralize all your passwords behind

1213
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 1: one and remember and like it. A lot of people

1214
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 1: are exposed as a result of that, And um, I

1215
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 1: just think that, like the this show, such a massive

1216
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 1: part of it was we have we are debuting devices

1217
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: that will allow you to monitor front parts of your

1218
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: body at all times and get real time biometric data

1219
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 1: your body in your house and centralizing all this data

1220
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 1: about you were talking about ring in one place, because

1221
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 1: that's the same thing with like smart homes and smart

1222
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,480
Speaker 1: appliances were very popular. Smart cars were a very big thing.

1223
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 1: Um We're talking about like smart cities were another big

1224
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 1: thing for just other ways to centralize all of the

1225
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 1: data about what you own, where it is, um and

1226
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: how to effectively provide advertising to get you to buy more.

1227
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 1: There's an attempt being made by Republicans in Oklahoma right

1228
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 1: now to make it criminal two do gender transition if

1229
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 1: you are under twenty six years of age. There's no

1230
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 1: reason why a product like this couldn't be used to

1231
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 1: determine whether or not somebody is illegally taking hormones in

1232
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 1: a state where they are attempting to restrict trans people

1233
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 1: like it's this is all We're not just being like

1234
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:53,439
Speaker 1: fuddy duddies. These are all very serious implications and there's

1235
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: zero thought, zero evidence of thought being given to it

1236
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 1: with any of the biometric companies. Now, one of the

1237
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 1: reasons we talked about that those smart glass um that

1238
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 1: are for people who are hearing impaired that caption conversations

1239
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 1: live around them. One of the reasons I was impressed

1240
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 1: by that is that it's all a closed loop. None

1241
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 1: of it goes to your smartphone, none of it's broadcast wirely, wirelessly. Um.

1242
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 1: It is all on device and none of it is

1243
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 1: stored anywhere. And when they said that, that was part

1244
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:22,760
Speaker 1: of what convinced me these people understand the responsibility they

1245
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 1: have delivering a healthcare product. We should move on to

1246
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 1: the other part of the Panopticon that we saw and

1247
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 1: talk about Ring. Yeah, the ring booth was one of

1248
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 1: the more terrifyingly dystopian bits. And it's you know, and

1249
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 1: it's describe it for our listeners, well, I mean it's

1250
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 1: they basically made like a white Pickett house. Um. And

1251
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 1: you know, again cs these are massive, massive buildings, and

1252
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 1: so they do people can construct a full house in

1253
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 1: there and you did, so like you know, there's fake

1254
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 1: fake green grass, a nice little fence, this perfect little

1255
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: ideal at home. And the massive, massive sign above was

1256
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: like you know, ring keeping, like keeping keeping your neighborhood.

1257
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 1: Say if you know like all of all of all

1258
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:09,240
Speaker 1: of that that type of messaging. UM. The in the

1259
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 1: model home they had there was like a dozen cameras

1260
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 1: on you know, every all all around the sides, and

1261
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 1: multiple cameras on the doors. There's a doorbell camera, peephole camera,

1262
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,960
Speaker 1: camera on the fence, and one door with three cameras

1263
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: on the door itself. And I mean ring zoned by Amazon,

1264
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 1: there was you know, Alexa Alexa assisted ring cameras um

1265
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 1: all of the day that gets gets used by law enforcement.

1266
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 1: A ring partners like directly with law enforcement to make

1267
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: data like immediately available and make feeds immediately available. And

1268
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 1: the probably the still least thing we saw at the

1269
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 1: ring booth was this home security tiny little drone ye

1270
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 1: so basically they've built and it's weird because the so

1271
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 1: the box it comes in looks like a fucking um

1272
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 1: de humidifier that I used to have or humidifier that

1273
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 1: I used to have in my house it's almost identical. Um,

1274
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:07,640
Speaker 1: but it's like this little plastic box and a drone

1275
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaker 1: can take off and fly out of it. Uh. And

1276
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 1: the drone trains itself on your house, so it knows

1277
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:17,120
Speaker 1: how to get around and if somebody it thinks somebody's

1278
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 1: breaking in, a person who is effectively like works for Ring,

1279
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:26,879
Speaker 1: like an actual human beings sitting in a call center somewhere,

1280
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:30,840
Speaker 1: takes control of the drone and can confront someone in

1281
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 1: your house. Which I guess there's a potential security benefit there,

1282
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 1: But also, you are signing up to allow Amazon to

1283
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:43,599
Speaker 1: have a random person travel around your home at any

1284
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: hour of the night in a in a thing they control,

1285
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,479
Speaker 1: in a little flying machine that they control, and that

1286
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 1: I cannot put myself in. That I get, obviously, I

1287
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 1: get wanting to have cameras. I don't think it's unreasonable

1288
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 1: to have security cameras on your home. I even understand

1289
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 1: how some people who are not as privacy conscious as

1290
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 1: I am could be like, yeah, I don't care if

1291
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 1: it's connected to the internet. Um, even though that's not

1292
01:09:05,400 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 1: a thing I like, I can't put myself in the

1293
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:10,360
Speaker 1: head of somebody who would want that thing in their house. Yeah,

1294
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 1: It's bizarre because obviously there's niche. Like again, they're like

1295
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 1: health related. Maybe if you've got like an illness or something,

1296
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:18,639
Speaker 1: you might want something like that. Like I can understand

1297
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 1: how very specific purpose driven needs, but like as a

1298
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 1: normal person wanting an Amazon employee to be able to

1299
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 1: wander around your home, it seems weird to me. I

1300
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:32,320
Speaker 1: mean that's obviously can also all that data getting used

1301
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 1: to Amazon can scan your entire house, figera what what

1302
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 1: products you buy, you know, what what non Amazon things

1303
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 1: are inside your home, what types of trends that you're using,

1304
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:42,880
Speaker 1: and all that can get used to help get you

1305
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 1: to buy more things. That the the one of the

1306
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 1: morin Cities parts of like all of the marketing and

1307
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 1: some of like the some of like the video commercials

1308
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 1: for Ring that we saw, you know, playing on these giant,

1309
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: giant screens inside is they're they're really trying to also

1310
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 1: push the they're trying to push in a normalize using

1311
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:05,240
Speaker 1: Ring as a part of your everyday life, but for

1312
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 1: non security means, like you know, when you're leaving your

1313
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 1: grandma's house, you say goodbye to her in her little

1314
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 1: ring camera. You know, when you when you're getting to

1315
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 1: your friend's house, you do a little funny pranks in

1316
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 1: front of their ring camera. It's like it's all these

1317
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 1: different ways to make rings seem like this fun and

1318
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: normal thing to like play with your friends and your

1319
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 1: family social, when in reality, look again, security cameras are

1320
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 1: inherently anti social. It doesn't mean that there aren't good

1321
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:33,760
Speaker 1: reasons to have one. And as someone who's been burglarized,

1322
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 1: I do understand that, Um it's not bad, but it's

1323
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 1: anti social because you are surveilling people because you're worried

1324
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 1: about what they might do. That is that is a

1325
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:46,720
Speaker 1: fundamentally anti social thing. And so the attempt to like

1326
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 1: turn that, the attempt to kind of like merge that

1327
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:53,960
Speaker 1: into normal family life and to make it like friendly,

1328
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:59,280
Speaker 1: is really bad. Yeah. I think that we briefly stopped

1329
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 1: by the A d T Booth and this is kind

1330
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:02,760
Speaker 1: of this This is kind of similar to the little

1331
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:05,160
Speaker 1: drone that we just talked about, but a little bit

1332
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:09,519
Speaker 1: more ridiculous. Um, they have at the A d T

1333
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:14,719
Speaker 1: booth this home security robot, like six six ft tall

1334
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:18,760
Speaker 1: robot with uh with like a like like an like

1335
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 1: a lc D little face with this big smile on

1336
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:26,280
Speaker 1: it and and it's powered or not powered. It is

1337
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:30,599
Speaker 1: controlled by you, the owner, by wearing an Oculus headset,

1338
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:34,840
Speaker 1: and it has it has rolling feet so it can

1339
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:37,439
Speaker 1: move around by rolling. But it's like six ft tall.

1340
01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 1: It has two arms, massive smiling face. And if if

1341
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 1: you have you know, your headset with you and you

1342
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:45,479
Speaker 1: think someone's breaking into your home, you can put this

1343
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:49,439
Speaker 1: on and control this robot to like chase them out.

1344
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:52,679
Speaker 1: And I was overhearing that a d T guys talking

1345
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:54,560
Speaker 1: about it, and they're like, yeah, this is even. This

1346
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 1: is even just like a great deterrence. Like imagine you're

1347
01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 1: if someone's breaking into your home and then they see

1348
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:03,240
Speaker 1: a massive smile like robot rolling towards you. I would

1349
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 1: run away very quickly, like like like what this This

1350
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:11,000
Speaker 1: thing has to cost like tens of tens of thousands

1351
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 1: of dollars, and like this is what you're doing to

1352
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 1: feel like you're really just spend that much money to

1353
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 1: to create this sense of safety. Really really, this is

1354
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:23,800
Speaker 1: this is what you're doing. You're you're you're getting a

1355
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 1: robot that gets powered by a Facebook headset so you

1356
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:30,600
Speaker 1: can walk around your house in a rolling robot to

1357
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:33,639
Speaker 1: make sure no one's gonna come you know, take random

1358
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 1: shipped from your house. Yeah, when like number one, Um,

1359
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:40,840
Speaker 1: anyone who would do that is the kind of person

1360
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:43,760
Speaker 1: that needs to be have things taken from them. Um.

1361
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,880
Speaker 1: But number two like if you're actually concerned for your

1362
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 1: actual safety, and again I think that's perfectly valid. Um.

1363
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 1: None of these drones, this robot of security theater, it's

1364
01:12:56,240 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 1: not theater. It's easy to to like damage, it's easy.

1365
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 1: You can knockna it's it's a three wheels you knock

1366
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 1: it over. It can't get up, put on block so

1367
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 1: that you're completely covered, knock it over, and then proceed

1368
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 1: to rob the house. It's not useful. It's it's it's

1369
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:14,680
Speaker 1: just a security alarm at that point. It's it's it's

1370
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 1: wild and like and people will find ways to hack

1371
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 1: them and stuff. You know, you can't hack a well

1372
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 1: trained guard dog, which also will cost you tens of

1373
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars less, and we'll love you like a

1374
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 1: Doberman pincher will kill your enemies if they break into

1375
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:32,479
Speaker 1: your home, and loves you like the same way. You know,

1376
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:35,120
Speaker 1: there was people getting into Alexa machines. A few years

1377
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 1: ago there was Alexa Alexa machines listening and sending info

1378
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:40,639
Speaker 1: when they weren't supposed to do. There was a mass

1379
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 1: there was a pretty big incident actually in Portland a

1380
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 1: few years ago of of Alexa listening in too when

1381
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 1: it was wasn't supposed to and and and like listening

1382
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 1: to different conversations and trying trying to finish conversational cues. Um.

1383
01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 1: You know, it's only a matter of time before someone

1384
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:56,320
Speaker 1: figures out how to control, how to remotely control one

1385
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 1: of these A D T robots and you have something

1386
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: like rolling around in your house that you don't control anymore.

1387
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:06,760
Speaker 1: Like it's yeah, there are it's there are always vulnerabilities

1388
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 1: in these things and they always get hacked. Um. And

1389
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:12,640
Speaker 1: more to the point, like well, if you have some

1390
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:16,280
Speaker 1: sort of security drone like your ring drone, there's no

1391
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:19,559
Speaker 1: way like again, Amazon would comply with law enforcement requests.

1392
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:22,800
Speaker 1: There's nothing that says law enforcement, if it was part

1393
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:25,880
Speaker 1: of an investigation, could not use this technology to surveil

1394
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 1: you in real time. UM. So I don't like that. UM,

1395
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:35,680
Speaker 1: not my favorite. And while we're when we're talking about surveillance, Uh,

1396
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:40,360
Speaker 1: we can't ignore our good friends at palent here. Now,

1397
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:44,040
Speaker 1: if you haven't been paying attention to the surveillance industry.

1398
01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 1: Palent Here is a company that exists to collect data

1399
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 1: and build machine solutions and machine learning solutions UM to

1400
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 1: surveil people and to help equipment like drones, targeting and

1401
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 1: whatnot work better. They're an intelligence company. There's like lots

1402
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:03,760
Speaker 1: of systems. They do systems. It's not like they make

1403
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 1: a single product. They help build systems to collect data

1404
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 1: and enable governments and militaries to make decisions off of

1405
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:13,519
Speaker 1: that data. That is like the thing that they do

1406
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 1: primarily systems analysts tracking. I mean, like what one of

1407
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:19,200
Speaker 1: the one of the things we saw was them you know,

1408
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 1: analyzing homes to data around like water conservation. Right there,

1409
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:25,400
Speaker 1: they're trying to put a variety of their usage not

1410
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:28,680
Speaker 1: just kill brown people, but but they do a lot

1411
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,560
Speaker 1: of the primary the center of their booth was this

1412
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 1: massive military truck with a huge armored box on the

1413
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:38,840
Speaker 1: back that was filled with computers specifically to collect data

1414
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:43,040
Speaker 1: and to um like do command and control for drone

1415
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 1: fleets in theater um And one of the things you

1416
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:49,240
Speaker 1: know when you see a vehicle of that size and

1417
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:51,680
Speaker 1: it was very massive, is that well, this is not

1418
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 1: this is intended either to be very far back from

1419
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:58,680
Speaker 1: the front, which which mitigates some of the uses of it,

1420
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 1: or it is intended to be used in an area

1421
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 1: in which the enemy does not have air power. Um.

1422
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:07,800
Speaker 1: But so again the kind of places where you're just

1423
01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:11,960
Speaker 1: bombing them, right, like theaters like Yemen where the rebels

1424
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:15,560
Speaker 1: have minimal ability to do something like bomb a gigantic

1425
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:19,840
Speaker 1: truck that's a target. Um, but you have kind of

1426
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:22,719
Speaker 1: unrestricted ability to do stuff like drone strike school buses,

1427
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:26,200
Speaker 1: which has happened repeatedly there. Um. We had a couple

1428
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:29,519
Speaker 1: of conversations with the good people at Palanteer. Uh they

1429
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:33,040
Speaker 1: were I don't I think we kind of figured out

1430
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:37,320
Speaker 1: they were primarily they're looking for talent, because they were

1431
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 1: looking for people to recruit, looking for different things to

1432
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 1: integrate into their systems. Yeah, they would not show much

1433
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:45,920
Speaker 1: of what they had. Everything inside the van itself was

1434
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:51,400
Speaker 1: uh classified. Here would you hear me my phone? Find

1435
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 1: that person's name? But everything in there was was classified

1436
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:58,280
Speaker 1: whenever we started talking, especially the first time we were there,

1437
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:01,240
Speaker 1: because I started asking some pretty specific questions about what

1438
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 1: was actually in that and how it worked and how

1439
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:06,679
Speaker 1: it was different from current drone command and control solutions.

1440
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 1: And there was a very specific woman with Palenteer who,

1441
01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:12,160
Speaker 1: no matter who I was talking to, would come up

1442
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:16,040
Speaker 1: behind me and kind of direct conversation. And I think

1443
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:18,599
Speaker 1: also was there to listen to the answers that were

1444
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:21,080
Speaker 1: being provided to me and stop people from saying things

1445
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:24,559
Speaker 1: on her team if they weren't supposed to say them. Um.

1446
01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:29,040
Speaker 1: There were a couple of occasions in which I asked, Hey,

1447
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:31,960
Speaker 1: can we check this thing out on the inside, and

1448
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 1: we were told no, it was classified. No one else

1449
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 1: could get in. You have to you have to gain

1450
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:43,080
Speaker 1: permission from the army. Yeah. I definitely saw some individuals exited,

1451
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:45,559
Speaker 1: but they were Palenteer people. But then the next day

1452
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: we came back UM, and I watched a woman exit

1453
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:54,800
Speaker 1: the vehicle UM and a man from Palenteer with her,

1454
01:17:54,840 --> 01:17:56,720
Speaker 1: but the woman was not from Palenteer. Now, people wear

1455
01:17:56,760 --> 01:17:58,640
Speaker 1: badges at c e s, so their names are on

1456
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 1: display and what they do was on display. Although it's

1457
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 1: easy to look this person up, and I saw she

1458
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:06,280
Speaker 1: had a badge as a speaker. Her name was Mary

1459
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:09,800
Speaker 1: or sorry, her name was Melody Hildebrand. UM, So I

1460
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:14,080
Speaker 1: I googled Melody Hildebrand because I wanted to know she

1461
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 1: does not work for Palenteer. What is she doing inside

1462
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 1: Palentteer's giant class classified robot murder box? Uh Melody is

1463
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 1: the president of Blockchain Creative Labs and the chief information

1464
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 1: security officer for the Fox company, for the you know

1465
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:32,840
Speaker 1: that Fox corporation. So it looked like by the way

1466
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:37,559
Speaker 1: her her Twitter says, uh c I s O Fox

1467
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:41,439
Speaker 1: Web three Engineering, cybersecurity, former war gamer, lover of farm animals,

1468
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:46,840
Speaker 1: so that's cool. Um. And yeah, over here we've got

1469
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:50,599
Speaker 1: her retweeting a post about and a rill, which is UM.

1470
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:55,559
Speaker 1: One of the Peter Teel companies, like Palenteer, is raising

1471
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:58,880
Speaker 1: one point four eight billion in their Series E funding. UM.

1472
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 1: This new funding will enable us to accelerate R and

1473
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 1: DED and bring new cutting edge autonomous defense capabilities to market.

1474
01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 1: Now I don't know, I wonder what they mean by

1475
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:12,120
Speaker 1: the word defense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's also pro n

1476
01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:13,880
Speaker 1: f T. So that's good. I'm gonna I'm gonna tweet

1477
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:18,040
Speaker 1: to her in a little bit. Um. But no, it

1478
01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:19,840
Speaker 1: was it was very clear that there was you know,

1479
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:22,000
Speaker 1: there was pr people on the ground to make sure

1480
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 1: that the line of questioning if they were too if

1481
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 1: people were asking questions about their surveillance tech, about this

1482
01:19:28,160 --> 01:19:31,559
Speaker 1: big Titan truck, which is what it's called Titan um

1483
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:35,160
Speaker 1: that there's only very very specific answers, and like they

1484
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:37,000
Speaker 1: were not there to talk to journalists. They were not

1485
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 1: there to talk to media. They were there to recruit

1486
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:43,720
Speaker 1: people to you know, become more capable at their surveillance tech.

1487
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 1: That's that was very clear. Uh. They were also right

1488
01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:52,800
Speaker 1: across the street, right across the hall from the Fantastic

1489
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:56,719
Speaker 1: Robos and Transformers robots. So on the on one side

1490
01:19:56,800 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 1: you have a fun optimist Prime robot that transforms, the

1491
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:03,840
Speaker 1: other side you have the rolling metal deathcage. So that

1492
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:06,439
Speaker 1: was that was that was most of Palentteer. They had

1493
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 1: this um sky box, which was this box that had

1494
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 1: like encrypted communications technology, uh, drones and drone drone piloting

1495
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:19,880
Speaker 1: technology and like um, you know, a military computer that

1496
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:22,040
Speaker 1: all in this little tiny box that they can drop

1497
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:26,759
Speaker 1: into people who are you know, basically drop into people

1498
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:29,080
Speaker 1: who are in trouble. Yeah, they were, they were. They

1499
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:31,439
Speaker 1: were building it as basically number one. It would be

1500
01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:33,599
Speaker 1: for it could be for special forces teams. It has

1501
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:37,280
Speaker 1: like a laptop in there, it has potentially several drones

1502
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:39,720
Speaker 1: in there, um and it has like a bunch of

1503
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 1: specially modified field cameras you could set up surveillance on

1504
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:46,320
Speaker 1: an area um and and those cameras kind of work

1505
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:49,120
Speaker 1: with a machine learning algorithm to do stuff like try

1506
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 1: and identify where landmines are. And again like these are

1507
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:57,479
Speaker 1: the stuff that's problematic primarily about palanteers. It's it's data collecting,

1508
01:20:57,520 --> 01:21:00,320
Speaker 1: its surveillance, and the fact that we know that drone

1509
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:04,519
Speaker 1: warfare is generally pretty fucked up and has an extremely

1510
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:06,640
Speaker 1: high civilian casualty rate and is used in a lot

1511
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:09,639
Speaker 1: of theaters obviously, not in a lot of theaters where

1512
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:12,960
Speaker 1: they are primarily just massacring people either fighting for their

1513
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:16,160
Speaker 1: freedom or trying to survive. This is the problem with it. Obviously,

1514
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:19,040
Speaker 1: all of this tech will also be used in generally

1515
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:21,640
Speaker 1: positive things, like, for example, dropping a box like this

1516
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:25,640
Speaker 1: into the hands of some Ukrainian special forces guys to

1517
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:30,840
Speaker 1: to integrate them into a more advanced command and control

1518
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:34,760
Speaker 1: networks so they have better access to tactical data like

1519
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:36,800
Speaker 1: is not a thing. I don't specifically have a problem

1520
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:41,519
Speaker 1: with that application. The problem is more broadly palent heer Um.

1521
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:43,719
Speaker 1: Do you want to do do you want to briefly

1522
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:46,880
Speaker 1: explain in case people are not Lord of the Rings fans.

1523
01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 1: So again, these are all companies owned by Peter Thiel,

1524
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:55,200
Speaker 1: who is a self described fascist, believes in ending democracy,

1525
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:58,880
Speaker 1: believes that democracy and freedom are not compatible because freedom

1526
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:02,160
Speaker 1: he defined mind specifically as the ability of people with

1527
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:04,320
Speaker 1: lots of money to not have any kind of restrictions

1528
01:22:04,360 --> 01:22:06,800
Speaker 1: on their behavior or what they can compel other people

1529
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:10,760
Speaker 1: to do. Peter Teal owns Palenteer and andy rill Um.

1530
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:14,720
Speaker 1: The Palanteer Palenteer both of those are names from Lord

1531
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:16,240
Speaker 1: of the Rings, and in Lord of the Rings, the

1532
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:19,760
Speaker 1: Palenteer was an orb given by the Big Bad Guy

1533
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:24,440
Speaker 1: Sawon to one of his lackeys, a wizard named Saramon,

1534
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:27,240
Speaker 1: so that he could surveil any part of Middle Earth

1535
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:31,160
Speaker 1: he wanted in order to send his armies to crush

1536
01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:33,560
Speaker 1: the free peoples of the world. Like that is that

1537
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:36,680
Speaker 1: is literally what this company is named after. It is

1538
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 1: the bad guy surveillance tech to use the Orokai against

1539
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 1: the free people of Middle Earth. It is it is

1540
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:49,120
Speaker 1: specifically something that only evil people use. Um, It's it's

1541
01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:51,040
Speaker 1: pretty cool that the whole company is named after. And

1542
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:54,599
Speaker 1: there were all these very nice, polite people in uh

1543
01:22:55,120 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 1: Patagonia style vests with Palenteer logos stick on them, standing around. UM.

1544
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:06,880
Speaker 1: Happy to answer any of your questions. Uh. Anyway, I'm

1545
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:09,720
Speaker 1: I'm curious as to why Melody Hildebrandt was inside there.

1546
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:12,800
Speaker 1: What the chief information security officer of Fox would want

1547
01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:14,799
Speaker 1: to do with one of those vans. That is curious.

1548
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:18,920
Speaker 1: That is curious, she's on Twitter. I did reach out

1549
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:21,840
Speaker 1: to her, but we that We also saw a few

1550
01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:24,200
Speaker 1: of the robot dogs. We saw the Boston the Dynamics one,

1551
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:27,920
Speaker 1: which was very impressive and how it moves. Um. Then

1552
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:33,160
Speaker 1: we saw one much more cheaper um uh model of

1553
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:36,000
Speaker 1: of a robot dog that had not as great mobility,

1554
01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:39,680
Speaker 1: but it seemed to be more more suited towards the

1555
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:42,280
Speaker 1: types of the types of style of dogs that were

1556
01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:45,600
Speaker 1: that we've seen law enforcements start to buy. Um, the

1557
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:50,640
Speaker 1: cheaper ones with less flexibility, more mounts to attach you know,

1558
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:52,519
Speaker 1: things to the top of the robot which you don't

1559
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:55,280
Speaker 1: really see you with the Boston Dynamics ones. They do

1560
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:58,639
Speaker 1: not like mounting extra things on. But the the other

1561
01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:00,640
Speaker 1: robot dog we saw had this little arm that it

1562
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:02,920
Speaker 1: was that it was that that had attached to the

1563
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:06,400
Speaker 1: top that was in the robotics section, pretty close to Palentteer.

1564
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:08,760
Speaker 1: That one was much less impressive than because we saw

1565
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:11,280
Speaker 1: both robot dogs and these are if you've see video

1566
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:15,400
Speaker 1: of a robot dog that people are freaking about out

1567
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:19,200
Speaker 1: about online, these are those robot dogs. UM. The one

1568
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:21,679
Speaker 1: we saw with the arm on, it did not move.

1569
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:24,400
Speaker 1: It was number one, controlled directly by a guy with

1570
01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:27,479
Speaker 1: a controller. It was not autonomous and it didn't move

1571
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:32,240
Speaker 1: very smoothly. The sitting in front of the Boston Dynamic

1572
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:36,600
Speaker 1: Spot spot and watching it move was really surre It

1573
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:39,439
Speaker 1: was number one. We both talked about this Garrison. It's

1574
01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:42,240
Speaker 1: like watching c g I in real life because it's

1575
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:45,519
Speaker 1: it's so fine tuned. Yeah, it moves like a living thing,

1576
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:48,600
Speaker 1: but clearly is not UM and it moves like a

1577
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:50,479
Speaker 1: living thing enough that it is not it's not an

1578
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:52,880
Speaker 1: uncanny valley. That's not the right way to describe it now,

1579
01:24:52,920 --> 01:24:57,120
Speaker 1: because the movements are kind of perfect. It's just not

1580
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 1: it's alive. It's almost it's it's not uncanny valley. It's

1581
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:04,920
Speaker 1: almost like instead, it's like too perfect. Yeah, it's it's

1582
01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:07,760
Speaker 1: just so fine tuned. It's it was pretty it was

1583
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:10,240
Speaker 1: pretty impressive to watch. It was very impressive, and it

1584
01:25:10,360 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 1: it's become obvious to me that like, one of the

1585
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:15,040
Speaker 1: things that absolutely is going on at Boston Dynamics is

1586
01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:18,280
Speaker 1: that they feel there is there is an it is

1587
01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:21,320
Speaker 1: important to them as a business. Some of this may

1588
01:25:21,400 --> 01:25:23,760
Speaker 1: just be that they this is a personal challenge for

1589
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:25,800
Speaker 1: a lot of these engineering guys, but I suspect they

1590
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:29,480
Speaker 1: also see this as valuable to their business to replicate

1591
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:32,240
Speaker 1: physical emotionality. And when I talk about that, when you like,

1592
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:35,400
Speaker 1: watch a dog, right, you can tell a dog's emotions

1593
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:37,320
Speaker 1: from the way that the dog moves, because that's how

1594
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 1: dogs work. Um, the robot dog expresses physical emotion and

1595
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:46,160
Speaker 1: obviously it doesn't feel emotion, but it physically expresses emotion

1596
01:25:46,240 --> 01:25:49,599
Speaker 1: in a similar way to a dog, like curiosity. They're

1597
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:53,000
Speaker 1: very good at mimicking a curious dog in the way

1598
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:57,240
Speaker 1: it's body language works, which is really wild. Yeah, that

1599
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:00,439
Speaker 1: would be one of the things I did not like. Um.

1600
01:26:01,240 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it's impressive. A lot of this stuff is

1601
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:06,280
Speaker 1: objectively impressive. Most of the other robotics we saw there

1602
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:10,559
Speaker 1: was not that impressive. Like I saw this this robot

1603
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 1: bartender that was making boba but it but it didn't

1604
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:16,840
Speaker 1: know it didn't know how, or it wasn't able to

1605
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:20,599
Speaker 1: actually deliver the boba onto the secondary robot that delivers

1606
01:26:20,680 --> 01:26:23,880
Speaker 1: the boba. So this this this one robot with arms

1607
01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:26,640
Speaker 1: made made the drink, a human picked it up, inspected it,

1608
01:26:26,880 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 1: then put it on a secondary robot which then delivered

1609
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:32,080
Speaker 1: the trick. And I and this technology, I mean I

1610
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:35,599
Speaker 1: I was eating at a at a at a Burmese

1611
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:38,000
Speaker 1: place in Portland a few months ago where they were

1612
01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:41,720
Speaker 1: using this same food delivery robot system. It's not it's

1613
01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 1: not brand new, it's just becoming cheaper and more people

1614
01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:48,080
Speaker 1: are trying to like make it a thing. And there

1615
01:26:48,160 --> 01:26:50,000
Speaker 1: was so there was a lot of those types of things,

1616
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:53,080
Speaker 1: a lot of like R two D two on Jabba's

1617
01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:58,280
Speaker 1: sale barge, like delivering drinks style style robots that are autonomous,

1618
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:00,559
Speaker 1: like they do move themselves around. They they don't need

1619
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:04,600
Speaker 1: a remote controller, but they're not that impressive. But that

1620
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:06,640
Speaker 1: that that was like the majority of stuff in the

1621
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:09,240
Speaker 1: robotics section was that there was a few other kind

1622
01:27:09,280 --> 01:27:14,120
Speaker 1: of smaller rolling robots that were there assist like elderly people,

1623
01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:16,720
Speaker 1: like if if someone falls down, this kind of goes

1624
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:19,400
Speaker 1: around and will help you. And yeah, I don't feel

1625
01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:23,120
Speaker 1: well that specific stuff. I don't feel like well suited

1626
01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:26,040
Speaker 1: to describe, like to guess as to how well it

1627
01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:29,800
Speaker 1: would work. UM. But I think more broadly talking about

1628
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:32,000
Speaker 1: autonomous tech because that was one of the biggest product

1629
01:27:32,120 --> 01:27:34,920
Speaker 1: categories at SEA as it was all over the place. Um,

1630
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:36,519
Speaker 1: there were a lot of cars and a lot of

1631
01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:40,160
Speaker 1: companies doing autonomous software and light our solutions for cars.

1632
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:43,599
Speaker 1: I consider that all to be vaporware. There's a great

1633
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:47,920
Speaker 1: deal of evidence here, but fully autonomous vehicles UM in

1634
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:50,080
Speaker 1: the way that some of these companies are advertising is

1635
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:52,960
Speaker 1: simply not They simply do do not exist, do not exist,

1636
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:54,560
Speaker 1: and will not exist. And we did talk to a

1637
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:57,479
Speaker 1: couple of people. So again for the stuff that's very

1638
01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:01,040
Speaker 1: real about autonomous tech, there's things like driver assistance, so

1639
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:04,160
Speaker 1: for like truck drivers, to allow them to strain and

1640
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:08,000
Speaker 1: stress themselves less while driving and to help um make

1641
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:10,040
Speaker 1: certain things like backing up and parking that can be

1642
01:28:10,200 --> 01:28:13,599
Speaker 1: very difficult in certain environments safer by having more cameras

1643
01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:15,880
Speaker 1: and machine assistance. That makes sense. And one of the

1644
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:19,040
Speaker 1: people who worked at one of those companies said to us, UM, yeah,

1645
01:28:19,080 --> 01:28:22,280
Speaker 1: there's no such thing as autonomous trucks or cars, like,

1646
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:25,519
Speaker 1: they don't exist outside of very tightly controlled conditions. All

1647
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:28,320
Speaker 1: we are trying to do is make truck driving safer

1648
01:28:28,400 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 1: and less stressful in the driver, which sounds great. Um.

1649
01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:37,000
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's problems with the way the trucking

1650
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:40,479
Speaker 1: industry exists outside of that, but that sounds again like

1651
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 1: one of those products meant to actually mitigate worker fatigue

1652
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:48,640
Speaker 1: and discomfort and potentially makes it safer. So I'm on

1653
01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:51,640
Speaker 1: board with that kind of stuff. But um, other like

1654
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:54,960
Speaker 1: an autonomous and smart tech that we like, like like

1655
01:28:55,479 --> 01:29:00,200
Speaker 1: smart cars, um e V like electronic vehicles and auto

1656
01:29:00,200 --> 01:29:01,960
Speaker 1: of stuff. There was some stuff at the John Deer

1657
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 1: booth which it was pushing towards automation like we talked

1658
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:07,120
Speaker 1: about in the last episode. And then also they're they're

1659
01:29:07,360 --> 01:29:11,400
Speaker 1: evy tractor just launched, which so John Deer, if you're

1660
01:29:11,400 --> 01:29:15,160
Speaker 1: not aware, has had a series of long running legal battles,

1661
01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:18,559
Speaker 1: particularly with farmers in Ukraine, over the fact that they

1662
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 1: do not want it to be possible or legal for

1663
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:25,000
Speaker 1: you to repair your tractor if you're a farmer. Farmers

1664
01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:28,439
Speaker 1: have previously in history often repaired and fixed and modified

1665
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:33,240
Speaker 1: their vehicles. Um, this is both necessary if a thing breaks,

1666
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:36,479
Speaker 1: you can't always get it back to a manufacturing facility

1667
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:38,120
Speaker 1: in time. And a lot of farmers in the middle

1668
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:39,360
Speaker 1: of nowhere. A lot of farms are in the middle

1669
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:41,120
Speaker 1: of nowhere, which is where food comes from. And you

1670
01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:44,840
Speaker 1: also like, you can't wait, you can't just be like, well,

1671
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:47,040
Speaker 1: let's just put harvesting off for a week or two.

1672
01:29:47,160 --> 01:29:51,240
Speaker 1: That that is a problem. Um. John Deere sees that

1673
01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:53,120
Speaker 1: as a severe threat to their profits, and they have

1674
01:29:53,240 --> 01:29:57,000
Speaker 1: fought viciously in courts UH to make it, to try

1675
01:29:57,080 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 1: to make it illegal to repair your own devices. Um.

1676
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:02,080
Speaker 1: They have lost a lot of those fights in the

1677
01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:05,240
Speaker 1: United States, and to its credit, the Biden administration has

1678
01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:07,799
Speaker 1: taken a strong stance in favor of the right to repair.

1679
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:12,040
Speaker 1: And what we saw from John Deere at this CS

1680
01:30:12,120 --> 01:30:15,479
Speaker 1: was a bunch of very impressive autonomous products that just

1681
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:19,439
Speaker 1: coincidentally will also make it completely impossible to repair your tractors,

1682
01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:23,519
Speaker 1: like specifically with the new EV tractor that launched. So

1683
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:27,440
Speaker 1: much of it is a computer that it is impossible

1684
01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:29,600
Speaker 1: to repair unless you work for John Deere. Like we

1685
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:33,040
Speaker 1: when we asked them, like, hey, you know, if if

1686
01:30:33,080 --> 01:30:35,120
Speaker 1: this thing breaks down. How how would a farmer go

1687
01:30:35,160 --> 01:30:37,640
Speaker 1: about trying to fix this since it is a lot

1688
01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:39,880
Speaker 1: of it is like not it's it's it's not like

1689
01:30:40,040 --> 01:30:42,560
Speaker 1: motors and stuff from like a classic car. It is

1690
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:47,040
Speaker 1: it is like it is computer driven. Um, and they're

1691
01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:50,440
Speaker 1: like they just can't. It's just it's just so complicated

1692
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:54,080
Speaker 1: that an average person cannot repair this like at all.

1693
01:30:54,160 --> 01:30:57,559
Speaker 1: It's just it just it's impossible. So that's the way

1694
01:30:57,640 --> 01:31:02,200
Speaker 1: they are gonna try to it around this, uh, this

1695
01:31:02,600 --> 01:31:04,880
Speaker 1: right to repair issue. Yeah, we will just and the

1696
01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:06,880
Speaker 1: and it's being done under the guys of well you

1697
01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:09,519
Speaker 1: you know, by having this much more advanced we can

1698
01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:11,719
Speaker 1: use a lot less pesticide, which is better for the soil,

1699
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:15,639
Speaker 1: better for everything, um, using less carbonius and less carbon

1700
01:31:16,120 --> 01:31:19,000
Speaker 1: the farmer will have more time because the vehicle can

1701
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:21,880
Speaker 1: handle this autonomously. So that's eight hours the farmer you know,

1702
01:31:22,000 --> 01:31:24,920
Speaker 1: gets to to spend doing something else and um, all

1703
01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:27,240
Speaker 1: of this stuff that's kind of meant to distract from

1704
01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:29,360
Speaker 1: like well, I guess yeah, maybe he'll have more time,

1705
01:31:29,439 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 1: but also substantially less autonomy and be completely dependent upon

1706
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:36,439
Speaker 1: the John Deer Corporation in order to produce the food

1707
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:39,760
Speaker 1: that human beings need to survive. UM. I'm also gonna

1708
01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:41,960
Speaker 1: point it out there and say I started this by

1709
01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 1: saying that, like, one of the major lawsuits was between

1710
01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:47,320
Speaker 1: John Deer and a lot of a group of Ukrainian farmers. Um,

1711
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:49,920
Speaker 1: the same farmers presumably who were towing a lot of

1712
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:54,240
Speaker 1: Russian ordinance away with the John Deer tractors. UM. I

1713
01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:57,439
Speaker 1: don't know that it's that kind of stuff. And one

1714
01:31:57,439 --> 01:31:59,080
Speaker 1: of the things that I think looking at a lot

1715
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:01,960
Speaker 1: of this autonomous tech, some of it's great, some of

1716
01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:06,479
Speaker 1: it could will save lives. Some of it Rather than

1717
01:32:06,560 --> 01:32:09,280
Speaker 1: like reducing the need for humans to do work that

1718
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:10,760
Speaker 1: it would be good if they didn't have to do,

1719
01:32:11,240 --> 01:32:15,200
Speaker 1: we'll do just what you recognize, create an even less

1720
01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:18,320
Speaker 1: human job for a human, like taking drinks from a

1721
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:21,439
Speaker 1: robot that makes drinks to a robot that carries them

1722
01:32:21,479 --> 01:32:23,680
Speaker 1: to people. Because we we just couldn't figure out that

1723
01:32:23,760 --> 01:32:28,280
Speaker 1: interstitial step. So your job as a human being, as

1724
01:32:28,360 --> 01:32:31,560
Speaker 1: a as a member of of of a species that

1725
01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:36,160
Speaker 1: spent millions of years evolving to be capable of creating

1726
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:38,840
Speaker 1: nearly anything, your job will be to take a drink

1727
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:40,920
Speaker 1: from one robot and set it down at another I

1728
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:43,599
Speaker 1: mean we we The thing is like that we already

1729
01:32:43,680 --> 01:32:47,799
Speaker 1: had that same idea in factories, Like as as factories

1730
01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:50,800
Speaker 1: have gone towards being more made by machines, they're still

1731
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:52,519
Speaker 1: as factory workers who need to do all this little

1732
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:55,600
Speaker 1: in between steps. So we're taking this factory model and

1733
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:58,559
Speaker 1: now just applying it to customer service doing the same thing,

1734
01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:00,840
Speaker 1: trying to automize as much as pop simile and then

1735
01:33:00,880 --> 01:33:02,680
Speaker 1: only rely on humans for all of these little in

1736
01:33:02,760 --> 01:33:05,720
Speaker 1: between steps that for some reason the robots and all

1737
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:08,000
Speaker 1: of the autonomous texts isn't very good at yet or

1738
01:33:08,120 --> 01:33:11,880
Speaker 1: you know, isn't really focused on completing. And that's that's

1739
01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:14,920
Speaker 1: the main thing that that humans are going to be

1740
01:33:15,080 --> 01:33:17,800
Speaker 1: are going to be doing in the in the autonomous

1741
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:21,439
Speaker 1: Boba store that's gonna come to your neighborhood in like

1742
01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:25,240
Speaker 1: ten years. Speaking of bad things about the future or

1743
01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:28,480
Speaker 1: at least the present, let's talk about Elon Musk's celebrity

1744
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:32,160
Speaker 1: death tunnel. So, if you're not aware Elon, one of

1745
01:33:32,240 --> 01:33:35,519
Speaker 1: the companies, actually the company he started that is based

1746
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:39,160
Speaker 1: on his own legitimate ideas is the boring company UM,

1747
01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:43,519
Speaker 1: which makes big tubes underground, uh so that people can

1748
01:33:43,600 --> 01:33:47,280
Speaker 1: drive their individual cars through them and avoid traffic. Now.

1749
01:33:47,360 --> 01:33:49,599
Speaker 1: Elon Musk is a man who takes his private jet

1750
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:53,400
Speaker 1: between airports in the same city in order to avoid traffic.

1751
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:55,720
Speaker 1: There is nothing he hates more than the idea of

1752
01:33:55,840 --> 01:33:58,880
Speaker 1: being a normal person or being at all connected to

1753
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:00,920
Speaker 1: the lives of regular people, which is why you get

1754
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:03,920
Speaker 1: a private jet UM when you could just like fly

1755
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:06,000
Speaker 1: first class or something, because even if you're flying for

1756
01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:08,400
Speaker 1: first class, you're still going to an airport and through

1757
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:14,120
Speaker 1: security around like the poor the poors. UM. Elon has

1758
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:18,920
Speaker 1: been vociferous about his hatred of of traffic um transit,

1759
01:34:19,040 --> 01:34:21,400
Speaker 1: but also he hates public transit because you might sit

1760
01:34:21,520 --> 01:34:24,720
Speaker 1: next to a serial killer. UM. So his solution is

1761
01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:28,559
Speaker 1: dig holes underground and let people drive there. And Uh.

1762
01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:31,840
Speaker 1: Most of the cities that have attempted to have bording

1763
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:34,600
Speaker 1: tunnels completed have been ghosted by the company. It is

1764
01:34:34,720 --> 01:34:37,280
Speaker 1: kind of a con um. But they did build one

1765
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:40,559
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas and Garrison and I used it, uh

1766
01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:42,839
Speaker 1: and it took us from one side of the convention

1767
01:34:42,920 --> 01:34:46,920
Speaker 1: center to the other. Um. We potentially, if we had

1768
01:34:47,040 --> 01:34:49,479
Speaker 1: made the most use of this service, we we might

1769
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:52,800
Speaker 1: have gotten at a five to seven minutes that we

1770
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:56,559
Speaker 1: didn't have to walk just just you and me alone

1771
01:34:56,840 --> 01:34:59,080
Speaker 1: inside the tesla, not having to be around other people

1772
01:34:59,720 --> 01:35:03,439
Speaker 1: in in the in the RGB tunnel if you're in

1773
01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:06,120
Speaker 1: One of the things Lama has literally said is like, well,

1774
01:35:06,160 --> 01:35:07,720
Speaker 1: if you take public transit, you might sit next to

1775
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:10,479
Speaker 1: some serial killer. The way this tunnel thing works is

1776
01:35:10,520 --> 01:35:12,320
Speaker 1: you tell them whether you're going east or west, and

1777
01:35:12,400 --> 01:35:15,080
Speaker 1: they put you in a tesla that some dude is

1778
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:17,160
Speaker 1: driving that you don't know, and then they fill the

1779
01:35:17,200 --> 01:35:20,080
Speaker 1: tesla with other other people that you also don't know.

1780
01:35:20,280 --> 01:35:22,800
Speaker 1: You're still sitting next to stranger and you're in this

1781
01:35:23,560 --> 01:35:26,240
Speaker 1: this tube that is lit up the same way a

1782
01:35:26,320 --> 01:35:29,479
Speaker 1: pair of like Razor gaming headphones are lit up um

1783
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:33,639
Speaker 1: and you just slowly stuck in this tunnel with two

1784
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:39,880
Speaker 1: random people who you don't know. I horrible, like one

1785
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 1: thing I feel like, obviously if you're in like New

1786
01:35:42,439 --> 01:35:44,040
Speaker 1: York or something or Berlin. I've been in a lot

1787
01:35:44,080 --> 01:35:46,040
Speaker 1: of cities where I've traveled on the underground, and I

1788
01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:49,920
Speaker 1: don't feel scared traveling in the underground because those have

1789
01:35:50,040 --> 01:35:51,880
Speaker 1: existed for a very long time, and so we know

1790
01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:54,200
Speaker 1: what happens when there's floods and when there's fires, and

1791
01:35:54,240 --> 01:35:56,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot of systems built, which is why you

1792
01:35:56,200 --> 01:35:59,400
Speaker 1: don't generally hear about a shipload of people dying in

1793
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:02,080
Speaker 1: sub way. I used an extremely safe way to travel.

1794
01:36:02,720 --> 01:36:06,479
Speaker 1: This tunnel is filled with vehicles that take we know

1795
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:09,640
Speaker 1: about fifty five gallons of water to put out a

1796
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:12,479
Speaker 1: fire when the battery catches fire, and the batteries on

1797
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:16,400
Speaker 1: Tesla's we also know, catch fire with some regularity. And

1798
01:36:16,479 --> 01:36:19,839
Speaker 1: you are trapped in a tunnel. Uh, there is sometimes traffic.

1799
01:36:20,240 --> 01:36:21,920
Speaker 1: Near the end of our ride, we wound up in

1800
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:25,439
Speaker 1: a line of like twenty Tesla's and that did not

1801
01:36:25,640 --> 01:36:28,200
Speaker 1: feel good because you just you can see nothing but

1802
01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:31,120
Speaker 1: Tesla's ahead of you and behind you, and you're surrounded

1803
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:35,960
Speaker 1: entirely by this tight claustrophobic wall with absolutely no emergency

1804
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:39,280
Speaker 1: exit's visible. So in fire suppression systems visible, I don't

1805
01:36:39,320 --> 01:36:41,240
Speaker 1: know what they have installed, but you can't see anything.

1806
01:36:41,479 --> 01:36:43,479
Speaker 1: You cannot see a thing. All you see is the

1807
01:36:44,200 --> 01:36:48,760
Speaker 1: Razor r GB gaming mouse. And then as as so,

1808
01:36:48,880 --> 01:36:50,640
Speaker 1: as soon as we got off this this thing that

1809
01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:52,519
Speaker 1: was supposed to take us to like the central area,

1810
01:36:52,560 --> 01:36:54,200
Speaker 1: it just took us to the other side of the

1811
01:36:54,200 --> 01:36:56,160
Speaker 1: convention center in order to actually get to where we

1812
01:36:56,240 --> 01:36:58,479
Speaker 1: needed to go, we just use the monorail, the thing

1813
01:36:58,520 --> 01:37:00,439
Speaker 1: that's been there for a long time, and it's fine.

1814
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:03,840
Speaker 1: And mono rails are also not great ideas for a

1815
01:37:03,880 --> 01:37:05,600
Speaker 1: lot of reasons. But it got us right to the

1816
01:37:05,640 --> 01:37:08,880
Speaker 1: other end of the strip very quickly, conveniently, cleanly. It

1817
01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:15,479
Speaker 1: took cost five dollars um. So good work, Ellen. I

1818
01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:19,759
Speaker 1: love the tunnel. I hope you're proud, ringing, ringing indoors.

1819
01:37:19,880 --> 01:37:21,360
Speaker 1: I can't wait for there to be tunnels like that

1820
01:37:21,439 --> 01:37:23,599
Speaker 1: in every city. Don't worry, they want the boring company

1821
01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:28,960
Speaker 1: is not a real company. Um yeah, anything else care?

1822
01:37:30,120 --> 01:37:32,759
Speaker 1: I mean we already talked about the digital health stuff,

1823
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:39,960
Speaker 1: which was a very big part of the ES. UM. Yeah,

1824
01:37:40,000 --> 01:37:41,360
Speaker 1: that's I think that's most of what we want to

1825
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:47,599
Speaker 1: touch on for now. Okay, well that's gonna just about

1826
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:50,240
Speaker 1: do it for all of us here at whatever show

1827
01:37:50,360 --> 01:37:54,560
Speaker 1: this is. UM we will at some point have some

1828
01:37:54,680 --> 01:37:56,920
Speaker 1: stuff based on Oh yeah, actually, let's let's in by

1829
01:37:57,160 --> 01:37:59,599
Speaker 1: I went in by talking about Um, I guess another

1830
01:37:59,680 --> 01:38:02,040
Speaker 1: good thing, but it's a good thing that relates to

1831
01:38:02,120 --> 01:38:06,040
Speaker 1: the bad things. Um. We ran across a booth on

1832
01:38:06,120 --> 01:38:08,200
Speaker 1: our way out that on the first day I had

1833
01:38:08,280 --> 01:38:12,840
Speaker 1: seen and I had thought was just UM like a

1834
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:16,240
Speaker 1: I had assumed it was like a GPS solution or

1835
01:38:16,280 --> 01:38:19,519
Speaker 1: something because the company was called off grid UM, and

1836
01:38:19,640 --> 01:38:22,280
Speaker 1: it's the off grid phone. We talked to the founder

1837
01:38:22,280 --> 01:38:25,320
Speaker 1: of the company, Ben Wilson, who was just a guy who,

1838
01:38:25,800 --> 01:38:29,280
Speaker 1: as he put it, does not like that. Uh. We

1839
01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:33,760
Speaker 1: consistently seated more and more control over our data and

1840
01:38:34,280 --> 01:38:39,040
Speaker 1: over our communications to large companies and governments and whoever

1841
01:38:39,120 --> 01:38:41,640
Speaker 1: the funk else gets access to these massive and or

1842
01:38:41,720 --> 01:38:45,880
Speaker 1: massive not anonymous data sets, and wanted to build a

1843
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:49,280
Speaker 1: thing for himself that could eventually replace his smartphone. UM.

1844
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:52,920
Speaker 1: So he and the company he started have produced these

1845
01:38:53,320 --> 01:38:56,160
Speaker 1: their dumb phones at this moment that context and can

1846
01:38:56,280 --> 01:38:59,880
Speaker 1: call and do encrypted end to end communication. They also,

1847
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:02,040
Speaker 1: if you are off grid, like in the middle of nowhere,

1848
01:39:02,360 --> 01:39:04,440
Speaker 1: and you and your friends have these, you can communicate

1849
01:39:04,520 --> 01:39:06,400
Speaker 1: through text through your phone to each other even if

1850
01:39:06,439 --> 01:39:09,160
Speaker 1: there is no network. Right. The phones themselves do like

1851
01:39:09,360 --> 01:39:12,040
Speaker 1: make a network. They communicate just just to each other,

1852
01:39:12,120 --> 01:39:13,880
Speaker 1: just to each other. You can do don't connect to

1853
01:39:13,920 --> 01:39:16,040
Speaker 1: the why their internet? Yeah, which is really cool and

1854
01:39:16,120 --> 01:39:19,080
Speaker 1: potentially extremely useful. This is this is UM there's a

1855
01:39:19,160 --> 01:39:21,759
Speaker 1: number of applications that this could have. Garrison you mentioned

1856
01:39:21,800 --> 01:39:24,320
Speaker 1: that the Atlanta Forest Defense people could benefit from something

1857
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:27,320
Speaker 1: like this because it will effectively they're about two hundred

1858
01:39:27,320 --> 01:39:29,360
Speaker 1: bucks apiece. Anyone who can afford a few of these,

1859
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:32,760
Speaker 1: you can set up your own secure comms network for

1860
01:39:32,840 --> 01:39:35,280
Speaker 1: wherever you are and whatever you're doing, and and the other.

1861
01:39:35,479 --> 01:39:38,160
Speaker 1: The other feature of this is that you can set

1862
01:39:38,200 --> 01:39:42,599
Speaker 1: it onto something called sheep mode, where basically, if if

1863
01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:46,360
Speaker 1: if you suspect that that someone who you don't want

1864
01:39:46,400 --> 01:39:48,639
Speaker 1: to look at your phone, whether that's law enforcement, whether

1865
01:39:48,720 --> 01:39:52,320
Speaker 1: that's other random random other people, you can set it

1866
01:39:52,360 --> 01:39:55,679
Speaker 1: to this mode that when they when they either seize

1867
01:39:55,800 --> 01:39:59,640
Speaker 1: or gain gain possession of this device, all of the

1868
01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:02,840
Speaker 1: the the data is immediately wiped before they can actually

1869
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:06,080
Speaker 1: open up the phone. Um and they will open it up,

1870
01:40:06,080 --> 01:40:10,120
Speaker 1: they will see this fake profile that called the called

1871
01:40:10,400 --> 01:40:13,200
Speaker 1: not fake profile, but like this, this alternate profile called

1872
01:40:13,240 --> 01:40:17,560
Speaker 1: it called the sheep profile, which shows not not the

1873
01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:18,920
Speaker 1: stuff that not the stuff that you were using the

1874
01:40:18,960 --> 01:40:20,880
Speaker 1: food for. You can then just be blank or you

1875
01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:23,640
Speaker 1: could like stick other numbers in there. You could have

1876
01:40:23,800 --> 01:40:25,920
Speaker 1: like a series of fake text but and then and

1877
01:40:26,240 --> 01:40:28,439
Speaker 1: but if you ever regain possession of the phone, you're

1878
01:40:28,479 --> 01:40:32,599
Speaker 1: able to put in UM a special a special password

1879
01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:37,160
Speaker 1: that will it will send the data. It'll it'll it'll

1880
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:40,280
Speaker 1: send the data through encryption back onto this device. So

1881
01:40:40,360 --> 01:40:42,200
Speaker 1: you still have the things that you would have lost.

1882
01:40:42,920 --> 01:40:46,160
Speaker 1: And obviously there's a degree of like you would have

1883
01:40:46,280 --> 01:40:49,080
Speaker 1: to have some trust for the company, yes, which says

1884
01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:51,920
Speaker 1: like and Ben says, like, we are attempting to do this.

1885
01:40:52,040 --> 01:40:54,000
Speaker 1: He was very open about the fact that that they

1886
01:40:54,040 --> 01:40:55,920
Speaker 1: have the phones, we saw them, like some of this

1887
01:40:56,000 --> 01:40:57,840
Speaker 1: stuff is still getting built out. It is it is

1888
01:40:58,080 --> 01:40:59,920
Speaker 1: is still in development. They're still figuring out but for

1889
01:41:00,120 --> 01:41:03,080
Speaker 1: ways to keep the servers secure, to protect the servers

1890
01:41:03,120 --> 01:41:06,000
Speaker 1: from subpoenas from the American government and from other from

1891
01:41:06,040 --> 01:41:08,680
Speaker 1: other governments, like there's this this is still something that

1892
01:41:08,880 --> 01:41:11,200
Speaker 1: is being worked on. Uh. It was just one of

1893
01:41:11,320 --> 01:41:13,840
Speaker 1: the you know, we we see a lot of like

1894
01:41:13,960 --> 01:41:17,200
Speaker 1: like a lot of lofty promises and very very little

1895
01:41:17,240 --> 01:41:19,080
Speaker 1: thing to show for this. This is one of the

1896
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:21,760
Speaker 1: things that had actually you know, just this one guy

1897
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:25,320
Speaker 1: that had you know, some pretty some pretty relatable promises

1898
01:41:26,040 --> 01:41:28,200
Speaker 1: UM and and it's very open about what they have

1899
01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:30,040
Speaker 1: done and what they haven't done. And what they're trying

1900
01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:32,000
Speaker 1: to do now. He he he was, he was, He

1901
01:41:32,120 --> 01:41:34,920
Speaker 1: was not bullshitting. He wasn't trying to over emphasize what

1902
01:41:35,000 --> 01:41:37,200
Speaker 1: it can do UM or what I can do at

1903
01:41:37,240 --> 01:41:38,880
Speaker 1: the moment, like it's it's still being worked on. But

1904
01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:40,000
Speaker 1: this is one of the one of the one of

1905
01:41:40,080 --> 01:41:42,040
Speaker 1: the few, one of the future things that we will

1906
01:41:42,040 --> 01:41:44,479
Speaker 1: be that we will want to follow up on. And

1907
01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:46,640
Speaker 1: I think we're going to try to have been on

1908
01:41:46,720 --> 01:41:48,439
Speaker 1: the show in the near future because they're going to

1909
01:41:48,479 --> 01:41:50,840
Speaker 1: be doing a Kickstarter to fund one of the next

1910
01:41:50,920 --> 01:41:53,280
Speaker 1: phases of production of this UM. But you can you

1911
01:41:53,360 --> 01:41:55,840
Speaker 1: can look them up yourself. You can buy the version

1912
01:41:55,920 --> 01:41:58,040
Speaker 1: one of their product, which is on sale and functional

1913
01:41:58,120 --> 01:42:02,000
Speaker 1: now at off grid phone own dot com. Spelled the

1914
01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:04,920
Speaker 1: way you would expect UM. So yeah, check out off

1915
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:07,720
Speaker 1: grid phone dot com. We found it interesting, will be

1916
01:42:07,960 --> 01:42:11,439
Speaker 1: following up on that. Um. Ben gave me very strong

1917
01:42:11,760 --> 01:42:14,680
Speaker 1: the good kind of libertarian vibes. Reminded me of a

1918
01:42:14,720 --> 01:42:17,000
Speaker 1: couple of people I've I used to hang out with

1919
01:42:17,120 --> 01:42:20,519
Speaker 1: in my youth, and it's very much is that kind

1920
01:42:20,560 --> 01:42:23,559
Speaker 1: of like product of just a cranky guy who knows

1921
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:27,599
Speaker 1: tech and is angry at all of the data being

1922
01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:29,720
Speaker 1: sucked up and all of the data that we just

1923
01:42:29,840 --> 01:42:33,679
Speaker 1: kind of agree together we're going to give away two

1924
01:42:33,960 --> 01:42:37,519
Speaker 1: unsavory characters because life in the modern world is kind

1925
01:42:37,560 --> 01:42:39,600
Speaker 1: of impossible if you don't do that. No, I'm like

1926
01:42:39,800 --> 01:42:42,240
Speaker 1: one of one of the things on his signs was

1927
01:42:42,520 --> 01:42:44,960
Speaker 1: something along the lines of don't let the pope po

1928
01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:48,840
Speaker 1: look at your phone. So like it's yeah, it is

1929
01:42:48,880 --> 01:42:51,840
Speaker 1: somebody who gets it. Yeah, yeah, we liked we liked

1930
01:42:51,880 --> 01:42:55,120
Speaker 1: ben Um. So yeah, that is that is the dark

1931
01:42:55,200 --> 01:42:59,120
Speaker 1: side of the future of tech, as this year's CES

1932
01:42:59,160 --> 01:43:02,200
Speaker 1: has unveiled it to us. Um. You know, this is

1933
01:43:02,280 --> 01:43:04,840
Speaker 1: the also the conclusion of our reporting directly on the

1934
01:43:04,880 --> 01:43:07,840
Speaker 1: convention itself. We will have some reporting in the future

1935
01:43:07,880 --> 01:43:09,479
Speaker 1: that will be influenced by things we found here that

1936
01:43:09,479 --> 01:43:11,479
Speaker 1: we're going to continue to look up. But um and

1937
01:43:11,600 --> 01:43:13,200
Speaker 1: and we should have we should have some of the

1938
01:43:13,240 --> 01:43:16,360
Speaker 1: audio that we pulled from inside the convention center that

1939
01:43:16,400 --> 01:43:18,519
Speaker 1: should be edited together sometime in the near future. Talk

1940
01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:20,880
Speaker 1: to Paler. That'll be fine. Yes, As as a little

1941
01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:24,760
Speaker 1: kind of documentary, little daily diary of of of what

1942
01:43:24,880 --> 01:43:27,080
Speaker 1: we were actually doing on the ground. So that's being

1943
01:43:27,120 --> 01:43:29,679
Speaker 1: worked on. But this is this is as we're recording

1944
01:43:29,720 --> 01:43:31,320
Speaker 1: right now. This is the final day of CES. We

1945
01:43:31,400 --> 01:43:35,360
Speaker 1: are almost done. We have we are both very sore.

1946
01:43:35,960 --> 01:43:38,680
Speaker 1: Is surprisingly hard on your body. We have to enter

1947
01:43:38,920 --> 01:43:41,280
Speaker 1: Eureka Park one more time, but then we will be finished,

1948
01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:44,280
Speaker 1: and then we'll have to upload this and and edit

1949
01:43:44,680 --> 01:43:46,599
Speaker 1: edit the rest of the stuff we've made into into

1950
01:43:46,600 --> 01:43:48,400
Speaker 1: a little piece for you. So that is that that

1951
01:43:48,479 --> 01:43:50,719
Speaker 1: is still coming, you say, we, which was very generous.

1952
01:43:50,800 --> 01:43:53,519
Speaker 1: You're going to be doing that. Me and Daniels I

1953
01:43:53,560 --> 01:43:56,120
Speaker 1: will not be editing anything. Um. I don't know how

1954
01:43:56,200 --> 01:44:17,160
Speaker 1: to anyway. Go to Hell. I love you. Hagel remarks

1955
01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:21,000
Speaker 1: somewhere that all great world historical facts and personages appear,

1956
01:44:21,400 --> 01:44:25,519
Speaker 1: so to speak twice you forgot to add the first

1957
01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:29,720
Speaker 1: time as tragedy, the second time as farce. Welcome to Nick.

1958
01:44:29,720 --> 01:44:32,599
Speaker 1: It happened here the podcast where when we last left

1959
01:44:32,680 --> 01:44:35,719
Speaker 1: Jayerree Bolsonaro, he had locked himself in the presidential mansion,

1960
01:44:35,880 --> 01:44:38,200
Speaker 1: turned off the lights, and refused to leave or talk

1961
01:44:38,240 --> 01:44:42,240
Speaker 1: to anyone. Now, Bolsonaro has returned to his ancestral home

1962
01:44:42,800 --> 01:44:45,679
Speaker 1: hospital in Orlando, where he's been admitted for abdominal pain,

1963
01:44:48,439 --> 01:44:51,240
Speaker 1: joining me to discuss maybe the first man in history

1964
01:44:51,360 --> 01:44:55,760
Speaker 1: to be his own Napoleon. The third is James. Hi, man,

1965
01:44:55,920 --> 01:44:59,840
Speaker 1: this is I'm very much looking forward to this. Oh god.

1966
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:03,760
Speaker 1: I okay, So for for those of you who I

1967
01:45:03,800 --> 01:45:08,640
Speaker 1: don't know somehow have missed this. I I woke up

1968
01:45:08,760 --> 01:45:12,880
Speaker 1: on Sunday and ten minutes later this was happening, and

1969
01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:15,360
Speaker 1: I was like, well, okay, I guess I'm canceling my

1970
01:45:15,439 --> 01:45:20,519
Speaker 1: dinner plans were doing this instead. Yeah, I think Marx

1971
01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:22,320
Speaker 1: could have added to that quote and then as fast

1972
01:45:22,360 --> 01:45:25,200
Speaker 1: again and then for a third time as fast. Yeah.

1973
01:45:25,360 --> 01:45:27,559
Speaker 1: We really, we really, we really have sort of left

1974
01:45:27,600 --> 01:45:29,559
Speaker 1: the tragedy cycle and on now just in the forest

1975
01:45:29,640 --> 01:45:32,600
Speaker 1: over and over and over again. Yeah, we kind of

1976
01:45:32,680 --> 01:45:35,320
Speaker 1: need a new word for what keeps happening because it's

1977
01:45:35,320 --> 01:45:37,600
Speaker 1: not it's not really a coup and it's certainly not

1978
01:45:37,680 --> 01:45:42,439
Speaker 1: a revolution. It's just like an extreme reactionary tantrum. Yeah,

1979
01:45:42,479 --> 01:45:45,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I kind of like storming the capital because

1980
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:48,720
Speaker 1: it is what they do. But then yeah, I don't know,

1981
01:45:48,880 --> 01:45:52,920
Speaker 1: like I'm upset that everyone calls it insurrectionism or insurrectionist

1982
01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:56,800
Speaker 1: because it's like they're not like insurrectionary reactionary is like

1983
01:45:56,880 --> 01:45:59,759
Speaker 1: a power. Yeah, It's like, like I think like auto

1984
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:02,439
Speaker 1: who is closer. But the problem with COO is that

1985
01:46:02,600 --> 01:46:07,519
Speaker 1: coop implies that the military is actually cooperating, which it isn't. Yeah,

1986
01:46:07,560 --> 01:46:10,960
Speaker 1: and that's why they always failed. Yeah, we're going to

1987
01:46:11,000 --> 01:46:13,640
Speaker 1: get into that more in a bit, but yeah, okay, So,

1988
01:46:13,800 --> 01:46:17,759
Speaker 1: so the thing that has actually happened is on Sunday,

1989
01:46:18,120 --> 01:46:23,080
Speaker 1: supporters of of UH former former Brazilian president Jay Bilsonaro,

1990
01:46:23,880 --> 01:46:30,040
Speaker 1: who I fled the country to Orlando. I sacked the

1991
01:46:30,120 --> 01:46:32,880
Speaker 1: Plaza of the Three Powers in Brazil, which is the

1992
01:46:32,960 --> 01:46:35,400
Speaker 1: home of the basically the buildings are the three branches

1993
01:46:35,439 --> 01:46:38,880
Speaker 1: of governments, and unlike in the US, they sacked all

1994
01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:41,559
Speaker 1: of them. They stored their presidential mansion, they stormed Congress,

1995
01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:44,679
Speaker 1: they stormed the Supreme Court, and then having seized control

1996
01:46:44,680 --> 01:46:47,559
Speaker 1: of the buildings, as cops either sat around joking with him,

1997
01:46:47,560 --> 01:46:50,240
Speaker 1: which is actively walked them into the building. Like there

1998
01:46:50,360 --> 01:46:54,920
Speaker 1: is a video of a procession of Bolsonaro supporters with

1999
01:46:55,200 --> 01:46:57,719
Speaker 1: just like they're they're all walking in a line towards

2000
01:46:57,800 --> 01:47:00,280
Speaker 1: the plaza and there's just like two cop cars like

2001
01:47:00,400 --> 01:47:02,600
Speaker 1: in the middle of the thing driving with them like

2002
01:47:03,040 --> 01:47:06,920
Speaker 1: it's wild. There are cups taking selfies of them, taking

2003
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:10,320
Speaker 1: selfies yeah, like I that that one that was the

2004
01:47:10,400 --> 01:47:13,040
Speaker 1: one in particular that was like, I feel like that

2005
01:47:13,720 --> 01:47:16,640
Speaker 1: goes slightly above and beyond even what was happening with

2006
01:47:16,760 --> 01:47:24,120
Speaker 1: with the American cops. Like that was some Yeah, yeah,

2007
01:47:24,160 --> 01:47:27,240
Speaker 1: it's okay. So they get there, they do that, they

2008
01:47:27,320 --> 01:47:28,960
Speaker 1: do the thing where they grab metal stuff and they

2009
01:47:29,040 --> 01:47:33,040
Speaker 1: break the windows and then they break in and you know,

2010
01:47:33,160 --> 01:47:37,400
Speaker 1: they they do classic January six stuff. Um, they take pictures.

2011
01:47:37,520 --> 01:47:40,280
Speaker 1: There's one picture that I found that's I think it's

2012
01:47:40,320 --> 01:47:45,040
Speaker 1: in the Supreme Court. That's a picture of someone like

2013
01:47:45,479 --> 01:47:47,920
Speaker 1: you can't see their face. It's just them squatting on

2014
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:51,360
Speaker 1: a like facing backwards, squatting on it on a filing

2015
01:47:51,479 --> 01:47:58,479
Speaker 1: cabinet like fully butt out about take a dump. It's wild. Yeah,

2016
01:47:58,720 --> 01:48:02,280
Speaker 1: it's just what democracy lived like yeah, and shifting on

2017
01:48:02,360 --> 01:48:06,720
Speaker 1: a finding cabinet and government office. Yeah. Okay, so like

2018
01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:11,200
Speaker 1: they this this. They don't have a great plan here. Um.

2019
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:13,000
Speaker 1: The thing that they do is that so they all

2020
01:48:13,040 --> 01:48:15,160
Speaker 1: do this. They break in, they like break stuff, they

2021
01:48:15,280 --> 01:48:19,559
Speaker 1: like take random stuff. Um, and then they a whole

2022
01:48:19,600 --> 01:48:21,280
Speaker 1: bunch of people sit down on the ground and sing

2023
01:48:21,360 --> 01:48:24,280
Speaker 1: the national anthem, uh, waiting for the army to show up.

2024
01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:26,840
Speaker 1: Because they think that when the army shows up, the

2025
01:48:26,960 --> 01:48:28,400
Speaker 1: army is going to join them, and said, the army

2026
01:48:28,439 --> 01:48:32,040
Speaker 1: shows up and arrest them all. There's some people who

2027
01:48:32,120 --> 01:48:34,840
Speaker 1: try to fight the police. Uh they beat up a

2028
01:48:34,880 --> 01:48:37,720
Speaker 1: horse cop, which I think is funny because apparently this

2029
01:48:37,840 --> 01:48:39,840
Speaker 1: is just every single one of these Now someone beats

2030
01:48:39,880 --> 01:48:43,960
Speaker 1: up a horse cop. Um. But you know, by bye

2031
01:48:44,000 --> 01:48:47,840
Speaker 1: bye bye. By the end of Sunday, like it's all

2032
01:48:47,920 --> 01:48:50,760
Speaker 1: over the government forces. We take the plaza. People try

2033
01:48:50,760 --> 01:48:53,400
Speaker 1: to fight the police, but they lose really badly, and

2034
01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:55,640
Speaker 1: you know, okay, so obviously there's a reason why I

2035
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:58,479
Speaker 1: read that versus strategy a second time. Was first line

2036
01:48:58,520 --> 01:49:04,120
Speaker 1: to start this, like, okay, the January six comparisons start

2037
01:49:04,240 --> 01:49:08,560
Speaker 1: fast and get harder, which is this happened literally on

2038
01:49:08,680 --> 01:49:18,160
Speaker 1: January eight, like two days after the American I mean

2039
01:49:18,160 --> 01:49:20,439
Speaker 1: they stowed the Capitol buildings. But this is something I

2040
01:49:20,720 --> 01:49:23,200
Speaker 1: think it's kind of important to understand. This is an

2041
01:49:23,280 --> 01:49:27,439
Speaker 1: even worse plan than the January six plan. So the

2042
01:49:27,520 --> 01:49:30,839
Speaker 1: January six plan, if people remember this, so crucially, January

2043
01:49:31,000 --> 01:49:34,400
Speaker 1: six happens while Trump is technically still in office, and

2044
01:49:35,479 --> 01:49:37,200
Speaker 1: what's going on when when they're showing me the capital

2045
01:49:37,240 --> 01:49:39,679
Speaker 1: in January six, is that Congress is trying to basically

2046
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:42,120
Speaker 1: pass power to Joe Biden, right, like they're they're they're

2047
01:49:42,160 --> 01:49:46,479
Speaker 1: doing the vote to proof the ballot totals from the

2048
01:49:47,479 --> 01:49:51,200
Speaker 1: the electoral College. Blah blah blah blah blah. But okay,

2049
01:49:51,240 --> 01:49:55,400
Speaker 1: so this means that you know, when when when when when?

2050
01:49:55,880 --> 01:49:59,599
Speaker 1: On Jay's on January six, right, Congress was actually in session,

2051
01:50:00,080 --> 01:50:02,080
Speaker 1: so the people who were there actually had a thing

2052
01:50:02,360 --> 01:50:05,320
Speaker 1: they were trying to do to overturn their results, and

2053
01:50:05,680 --> 01:50:07,439
Speaker 1: there was like there were people they could have harmed.

2054
01:50:07,520 --> 01:50:09,360
Speaker 1: There was like they had they had like a goal

2055
01:50:09,960 --> 01:50:13,400
Speaker 1: kind of it was like seth Abramson. But on the

2056
01:50:13,520 --> 01:50:16,800
Speaker 1: other side, think it was like constitutional fantasy. Yeah, but

2057
01:50:17,240 --> 01:50:20,519
Speaker 1: lest yeah, but like I can't believe, you know, like

2058
01:50:20,640 --> 01:50:22,799
Speaker 1: this is the thing about about about what's happening Brazil's

2059
01:50:22,840 --> 01:50:25,720
Speaker 1: like I genuinely cannot believe that I am being made

2060
01:50:25,800 --> 01:50:28,639
Speaker 1: to defend the planning capacity of the January six crowd,

2061
01:50:29,840 --> 01:50:33,200
Speaker 1: like genuinely stunning. But the plan for the plan for

2062
01:50:33,360 --> 01:50:38,560
Speaker 1: January eighth in Brazil was even worse because Okay, the

2063
01:50:39,320 --> 01:50:43,000
Speaker 1: day they do this on right, Congress is not in session.

2064
01:50:43,400 --> 01:50:46,679
Speaker 1: The Supreme Court is on holiday and Lulu, the actual

2065
01:50:46,720 --> 01:50:49,200
Speaker 1: president of Brazil has a already taken power and b

2066
01:50:49,479 --> 01:50:53,960
Speaker 1: is ins apollo. Yeah, no money is there. Literally, they

2067
01:50:54,000 --> 01:50:59,640
Speaker 1: stored three abandoned buildings. There was nothing there could they

2068
01:50:59,720 --> 01:51:02,439
Speaker 1: could tried. It's in milligration was like three days before, right.

2069
01:51:02,920 --> 01:51:05,200
Speaker 1: It's funny. Louva talked about it in this in his

2070
01:51:05,280 --> 01:51:07,880
Speaker 1: speech where part of like in this speech after after

2071
01:51:08,000 --> 01:51:10,599
Speaker 1: this happens, is he he has this line about how

2072
01:51:11,080 --> 01:51:13,120
Speaker 1: like all of these people were already in Brazilia, but

2073
01:51:13,160 --> 01:51:15,040
Speaker 1: they were too cowardly to face the people who were

2074
01:51:15,080 --> 01:51:18,439
Speaker 1: there for the inauguration, so instead they waited for everyone

2075
01:51:18,520 --> 01:51:23,519
Speaker 1: to leave, which is true. It's really funny, And this

2076
01:51:23,720 --> 01:51:25,880
Speaker 1: is kind of what they always do, right, They always

2077
01:51:25,960 --> 01:51:28,240
Speaker 1: kind of take the easy thing and then grandstand like

2078
01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:30,600
Speaker 1: like it's a big brave thing that they've done. Like

2079
01:51:31,640 --> 01:51:35,640
Speaker 1: we see this constantly on the right. Yeah, and you know,

2080
01:51:35,760 --> 01:51:37,680
Speaker 1: I like, I I think I think it's reasonable to

2081
01:51:37,680 --> 01:51:40,400
Speaker 1: ask what were they actually trying to do? Um? And

2082
01:51:40,439 --> 01:51:44,559
Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna read from the Washington Post. The Washington

2083
01:51:44,560 --> 01:51:47,479
Speaker 1: Post is talking about um some of the previous attempts

2084
01:51:47,479 --> 01:51:51,719
Speaker 1: to do the same thing. Quote one radicalized Bilsonarista named

2085
01:51:51,800 --> 01:51:57,000
Speaker 1: George Washington Day Olivaria was what, Yeah, all of the

2086
01:51:57,080 --> 01:52:00,560
Speaker 1: people involved with this are named like George Washington Olivaria.

2087
01:52:00,720 --> 01:52:06,439
Speaker 1: It's incredible. Do wow did they did they change their

2088
01:52:06,520 --> 01:52:09,000
Speaker 1: names or is the whole thing just being a lame

2089
01:52:09,120 --> 01:52:12,760
Speaker 1: part of American conservatives. Well, I mean that's that is like,

2090
01:52:14,560 --> 01:52:19,320
Speaker 1: like it really like there is a lot of truth

2091
01:52:19,400 --> 01:52:23,400
Speaker 1: to the analysis that like, like Brazilian fascist culture is

2092
01:52:23,520 --> 01:52:27,599
Speaker 1: just like the fourth time of Facebook meme isn't passed around,

2093
01:52:27,640 --> 01:52:30,320
Speaker 1: but this time on what'sapp Like it's it's some it's

2094
01:52:31,320 --> 01:52:35,360
Speaker 1: it's somehow more cringe than than the American stuff. Like

2095
01:52:35,520 --> 01:52:39,200
Speaker 1: it's port of incredible. But here he was, okay, he was, Yeah,

2096
01:52:39,400 --> 01:52:43,639
Speaker 1: this guy named George Washington Lavaria was arrested and accused

2097
01:52:43,640 --> 01:52:46,639
Speaker 1: of planting a bomb beneath a bus at the Brazilia airport.

2098
01:52:47,240 --> 01:52:49,600
Speaker 1: In a statement to police, he said he wanted to

2099
01:52:49,760 --> 01:52:53,880
Speaker 1: quote begin chaos that would lead to military intervention. So

2100
01:52:54,320 --> 01:52:56,680
Speaker 1: she's trying to do the strategy of tension, right, which

2101
01:52:56,720 --> 01:52:59,280
Speaker 1: is which is this thing from Italy? Where? Okay, so

2102
01:52:59,400 --> 01:53:01,519
Speaker 1: you you you have the government running a bunch of

2103
01:53:01,600 --> 01:53:05,519
Speaker 1: sort of like no, I mean, I don't know, calling

2104
01:53:05,560 --> 01:53:07,800
Speaker 1: them fake fascist groups is technically correct, but you have that,

2105
01:53:07,880 --> 01:53:10,240
Speaker 1: you have them running a bunch of terrorist groups and

2106
01:53:10,560 --> 01:53:12,639
Speaker 1: you know, okay, so they they this is this happening

2107
01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:15,120
Speaker 1: in like the sixty seventies and yeah, I guess a

2108
01:53:15,120 --> 01:53:16,840
Speaker 1: little bit into the eighties. Is that they're they're doing

2109
01:53:16,880 --> 01:53:18,479
Speaker 1: all these bombings and stuff, and they're doing all these

2110
01:53:18,560 --> 01:53:20,920
Speaker 1: terrorist attacks and the goal is to get people to

2111
01:53:21,080 --> 01:53:24,120
Speaker 1: like sort of trust the government and like allow like

2112
01:53:24,200 --> 01:53:26,439
Speaker 1: sort of further state of military intervention. But the thing

2113
01:53:26,479 --> 01:53:29,519
Speaker 1: about that was that crucially the strategy of tension was

2114
01:53:29,560 --> 01:53:32,200
Speaker 1: a strategy that was done by the government. It doesn't

2115
01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:34,920
Speaker 1: really work if you're not the government and you are,

2116
01:53:35,000 --> 01:53:37,320
Speaker 1: in fact that people causing the chaos, and where do

2117
01:53:37,400 --> 01:53:40,120
Speaker 1: you get to military to sort of join you. So

2118
01:53:41,160 --> 01:53:43,840
Speaker 1: this is a crucial problem for Brazilian fascism because as

2119
01:53:43,960 --> 01:53:45,800
Speaker 1: much as the sort of the modern fascist movement is

2120
01:53:45,840 --> 01:53:48,599
Speaker 1: a cultiple scenario, it's really a cult of the military.

2121
01:53:48,960 --> 01:53:51,200
Speaker 1: Bulsonaro is sort of just the person who embodies the

2122
01:53:51,280 --> 01:53:55,000
Speaker 1: sort of desire the fascist masses from military rule. But

2123
01:53:55,600 --> 01:53:57,960
Speaker 1: this means that if the military just refused to do

2124
01:53:58,040 --> 01:54:01,479
Speaker 1: a coup, they have no idea what to do. Yeah,

2125
01:54:01,560 --> 01:54:04,040
Speaker 1: but they could deploy Baltonara himself. Have you seen that

2126
01:54:04,160 --> 01:54:06,040
Speaker 1: video of him trying to do press ups to prove

2127
01:54:06,120 --> 01:54:13,360
Speaker 1: that he's kind of super solidate. Don't worry, you know,

2128
01:54:13,520 --> 01:54:15,400
Speaker 1: but this is this is sort of this is a

2129
01:54:15,479 --> 01:54:19,080
Speaker 1: real issue for them. And Okay, so if I am

2130
01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:22,000
Speaker 1: pretty confident that if the military had actually decided to

2131
01:54:22,040 --> 01:54:23,920
Speaker 1: do a coup, this would have worked, like and I

2132
01:54:23,960 --> 01:54:27,479
Speaker 1: think they would have pretty trivially just like smashed sort

2133
01:54:27,479 --> 01:54:28,880
Speaker 1: of the rest of the forces of the state. Lulu

2134
01:54:28,920 --> 01:54:32,000
Speaker 1: would be in prison. But and this is the thing

2135
01:54:32,040 --> 01:54:33,800
Speaker 1: that's been the key to everything that's been going on

2136
01:54:33,880 --> 01:54:36,320
Speaker 1: in Resolve from the beginning. The army does not have

2137
01:54:36,560 --> 01:54:39,520
Speaker 1: the green light from Washington to do a coup because

2138
01:54:39,680 --> 01:54:45,560
Speaker 1: once again Biden just absolutely hates Baillsonaro, which is like, yeah,

2139
01:54:45,960 --> 01:54:47,880
Speaker 1: you know this this this is this is a coup

2140
01:54:47,960 --> 01:54:50,320
Speaker 1: that was planned from Orlando and not Langley. Now we're

2141
01:54:50,360 --> 01:54:53,960
Speaker 1: on like number four in the last few years that

2142
01:54:54,120 --> 01:54:57,800
Speaker 1: was planned from Florida, and notably three of the four

2143
01:54:57,840 --> 01:55:00,720
Speaker 1: of them have failed. And this is on the Carstralia

2144
01:55:03,360 --> 01:55:05,520
Speaker 1: that was much fun. Yeah, well, I mean, I like

2145
01:55:05,680 --> 01:55:08,080
Speaker 1: to be fair, this is a better plant coup attempt

2146
01:55:08,080 --> 01:55:12,440
Speaker 1: than the venezuela one that's not hot. That's an extremely bar. Yeah,

2147
01:55:12,680 --> 01:55:14,520
Speaker 1: the kind of bar that you can get over by tripping.

2148
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:18,240
Speaker 1: But you know, we're sold the very early process of

2149
01:55:18,280 --> 01:55:20,720
Speaker 1: figuring out how exactly who was involved in this and

2150
01:55:20,840 --> 01:55:23,880
Speaker 1: that like to what extent everyone was coordinating with each

2151
01:55:23,880 --> 01:55:26,880
Speaker 1: other and like you know, i'm actual extent like literally

2152
01:55:26,960 --> 01:55:29,360
Speaker 1: governors were involved seen to have been involved in this,

2153
01:55:29,440 --> 01:55:32,920
Speaker 1: but we don't. We don't exactly know yet. Um. What

2154
01:55:33,080 --> 01:55:34,960
Speaker 1: we do know in terms of it's being planned from

2155
01:55:35,040 --> 01:55:38,520
Speaker 1: Orlando is that Bolsonaro for literally years has been saying

2156
01:55:38,560 --> 01:55:41,680
Speaker 1: ship like quote, the patience of the people has run out.

2157
01:55:42,360 --> 01:55:44,840
Speaker 1: I want to tell those who will make me unelectable

2158
01:55:44,920 --> 01:55:47,880
Speaker 1: in Brazil, only God removes me from power. There are

2159
01:55:47,960 --> 01:55:51,280
Speaker 1: three options for me jail, death, or victory. And I'm

2160
01:55:51,360 --> 01:55:55,160
Speaker 1: telling the scandal rules. I will never be imprisoned, evening

2161
01:55:55,440 --> 01:55:57,560
Speaker 1: literally years and years and years just saying sing like that,

2162
01:55:57,720 --> 01:56:01,000
Speaker 1: like just over and over and over again. And you know, Okay,

2163
01:56:01,240 --> 01:56:05,520
Speaker 1: So the other thing that we know right now and

2164
01:56:05,720 --> 01:56:09,160
Speaker 1: this this this is being recorded on what day is

2165
01:56:09,160 --> 01:56:11,640
Speaker 1: it is the ninth, Yeah, but it's being recorded on

2166
01:56:11,720 --> 01:56:14,040
Speaker 1: Monday to night. So this is this is the next day. Uh.

2167
01:56:14,400 --> 01:56:16,280
Speaker 1: If by the time this goes out there's more information,

2168
01:56:16,320 --> 01:56:18,160
Speaker 1: there will be more information is going on what we

2169
01:56:18,240 --> 01:56:20,080
Speaker 1: have right now. One of the things that we know

2170
01:56:20,480 --> 01:56:23,240
Speaker 1: is that the guy who was in charge of security

2171
01:56:23,320 --> 01:56:26,560
Speaker 1: for the Federal District, which is like the Federal District

2172
01:56:26,640 --> 01:56:28,440
Speaker 1: is basically like what if washing d C Was a state,

2173
01:56:29,560 --> 01:56:31,600
Speaker 1: but like a tiny one. So the guy who was

2174
01:56:31,600 --> 01:56:35,200
Speaker 1: in charge of security for that, uh, was a Bulsonaro

2175
01:56:35,240 --> 01:56:39,880
Speaker 1: supporter who just so happened to be on vacation in Orlando,

2176
01:56:40,600 --> 01:56:43,120
Speaker 1: where Bulsonaro was staying with an mm A fighter whose

2177
01:56:43,160 --> 01:56:47,040
Speaker 1: mansion has a Minion Stein room. Uh, he's just coincidentally

2178
01:56:47,320 --> 01:56:51,680
Speaker 1: on afication in Orlando with Paulsonara. Well this is happening,

2179
01:56:53,280 --> 01:56:56,160
Speaker 1: so you know, Okay, the Brazilian state seems to be

2180
01:56:56,240 --> 01:56:58,920
Speaker 1: being a lot faster to sort of crack down on

2181
01:56:58,960 --> 01:57:02,120
Speaker 1: everything that's happening than the American state was. Um that

2182
01:57:02,160 --> 01:57:05,360
Speaker 1: the guys who was in charge of security, I who

2183
01:57:05,440 --> 01:57:07,839
Speaker 1: was in who's in Orlando? That the Brazilian federal defender

2184
01:57:07,960 --> 01:57:11,000
Speaker 1: has already asked the Supreme Court to arrest him. Um.

2185
01:57:11,480 --> 01:57:14,400
Speaker 1: A Supreme Court justice like deposed the governor of the

2186
01:57:14,480 --> 01:57:19,720
Speaker 1: Federal District for allowing this to happen. So, yeah, it's wild.

2187
01:57:20,240 --> 01:57:23,400
Speaker 1: The Brazilian Minister of Justice as they've already entedified people

2188
01:57:23,440 --> 01:57:25,839
Speaker 1: in ten states who helped plan or fund the operation.

2189
01:57:26,320 --> 01:57:29,560
Speaker 1: They've arrested like well, the Totalsome yesterday said that they

2190
01:57:29,720 --> 01:57:32,200
Speaker 1: arrested four hundred people. I saw somewhere that arrested twelve.

2191
01:57:32,560 --> 01:57:34,920
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I could be wrong, but yeah,

2192
01:57:34,920 --> 01:57:38,160
Speaker 1: there was at least four hundred of people. Um, there's

2193
01:57:38,160 --> 01:57:39,680
Speaker 1: a huge like there's a huge track down on people

2194
01:57:39,760 --> 01:57:44,320
Speaker 1: involved in this Lula. It's much better than the January

2195
01:57:44,400 --> 01:57:48,000
Speaker 1: six response, and like, like part part of what's happening

2196
01:57:48,120 --> 01:57:52,760
Speaker 1: right is like like Lula literally like basically declared a

2197
01:57:52,800 --> 01:57:56,480
Speaker 1: state of emergency in the federal zone and like God

2198
01:57:56,600 --> 01:57:59,880
Speaker 1: basically like I guess you called, like he basically sent

2199
01:58:00,040 --> 01:58:02,400
Speaker 1: in the FEDS and like has like his people now

2200
01:58:02,480 --> 01:58:06,120
Speaker 1: have direct control over security in the capital because because

2201
01:58:06,200 --> 01:58:09,120
Speaker 1: because the police there were so unreliable and you know,

2202
01:58:09,240 --> 01:58:12,200
Speaker 1: and like he's been yeah, theresil states moving very very

2203
01:58:12,280 --> 01:58:17,400
Speaker 1: fast to sort of stuff better than the US charge

2204
01:58:17,440 --> 01:58:20,600
Speaker 1: and that probably yeah, and and also like Lula, Lula,

2205
01:58:20,840 --> 01:58:23,720
Speaker 1: unlike Biden, Lula, Lula has like like literally like three

2206
01:58:23,800 --> 01:58:26,840
Speaker 1: hours like as this was happening, he's making a speech

2207
01:58:26,880 --> 01:58:29,560
Speaker 1: about like that him vowing to go after everyone who's

2208
01:58:29,560 --> 01:58:35,520
Speaker 1: involved in this, including Bullsonaro and Um. A Brazilian member

2209
01:58:35,520 --> 01:58:38,200
Speaker 1: of Congress has formally asked to Foreign Ministry to extradite

2210
01:58:38,200 --> 01:58:43,480
Speaker 1: Bulsonaro to the US. Who knows what's going to happen there, Uh,

2211
01:58:43,600 --> 01:58:45,280
Speaker 1: there have been there has actually there's been like a

2212
01:58:45,360 --> 01:58:49,400
Speaker 1: surprising amount of sort of support for that in the US.

2213
01:58:50,680 --> 01:58:52,400
Speaker 1: And you know, I mean that's everything that's been kind

2214
01:58:52,400 --> 01:58:54,200
Speaker 1: of interesting for this, like before we take the ad break,

2215
01:58:54,280 --> 01:58:58,160
Speaker 1: is that like he's gotten Lula is getting support from

2216
01:58:58,240 --> 01:59:02,920
Speaker 1: like everyone, like this is this is one of the

2217
01:59:03,080 --> 01:59:07,640
Speaker 1: rare we we we we have the great capitalist Triumvirate

2218
01:59:07,880 --> 01:59:12,920
Speaker 1: of Vladimir Putin, Joe Biden and and Macron have all

2219
01:59:13,080 --> 01:59:17,640
Speaker 1: said that they're backing him, which is wild real international

2220
01:59:17,720 --> 01:59:21,000
Speaker 1: Lincoln Project vibes. Yeah, it's I mean that that that

2221
01:59:21,200 --> 01:59:26,360
Speaker 1: that that that is. I guess like Hulula is drabroad extent, right,

2222
01:59:26,560 --> 01:59:28,440
Speaker 1: Like you know, if you go back to a Lula episodes,

2223
01:59:28,560 --> 01:59:30,720
Speaker 1: like he was close with the Bush administration but also

2224
01:59:31,480 --> 01:59:34,840
Speaker 1: like close with the World Social Forum people. So he's

2225
01:59:34,920 --> 01:59:37,160
Speaker 1: he's always kind of like been the guy who straddles

2226
01:59:37,200 --> 01:59:42,080
Speaker 1: a divide between like, yeah, he's not and he's the

2227
01:59:42,080 --> 01:59:43,600
Speaker 1: guy he straddles a divide between the sort of like

2228
01:59:43,680 --> 01:59:53,240
Speaker 1: international imperialists and what was the left. Yeah, yeah, So

2229
01:59:53,400 --> 01:59:55,520
Speaker 1: all right, we're we're gonna we're we're gonna go to ads,

2230
01:59:55,520 --> 01:59:57,080
Speaker 1: and then when we come back, we're gonna talk more

2231
01:59:57,200 --> 02:00:02,240
Speaker 1: about how everything is actually sort of gone. All right,

2232
02:00:02,280 --> 02:00:04,880
Speaker 1: we're back. So one of the things I think is

2233
02:00:04,960 --> 02:00:06,800
Speaker 1: very interesting about this whole thing is that for all

2234
02:00:06,840 --> 02:00:09,640
Speaker 1: of the sort of planning and organizational capacity that's gone

2235
02:00:09,680 --> 02:00:13,360
Speaker 1: into building the sort of like transnational fascist movement, the

2236
02:00:13,440 --> 02:00:15,520
Speaker 1: American right like that that the American Party has been

2237
02:00:15,560 --> 02:00:19,160
Speaker 1: setting up, uh, the American Right has just actively been

2238
02:00:19,200 --> 02:00:24,440
Speaker 1: making their allies worse here like their ideas. It's it's

2239
02:00:24,440 --> 02:00:26,160
Speaker 1: sort of incredible, I mean, And this is something I

2240
02:00:26,200 --> 02:00:28,640
Speaker 1: think that that's genuinely very scary about the Brazilian right

2241
02:00:28,760 --> 02:00:32,680
Speaker 1: is that their regular combination of tactics are really effective.

2242
02:00:33,240 --> 02:00:35,160
Speaker 1: Um that you know that they've been able to successfully

2243
02:00:35,200 --> 02:00:38,440
Speaker 1: wild this combination of sort of electoralism of lawfare sort

2244
02:00:38,480 --> 02:00:40,640
Speaker 1: of like using the legal system against their political enemies

2245
02:00:41,280 --> 02:00:44,160
Speaker 1: of the road blockades, mass marches and you know, just

2246
02:00:44,200 --> 02:00:46,680
Speaker 1: straight up paramilitary death squads of various kinds. You know,

2247
02:00:46,760 --> 02:00:48,480
Speaker 1: you have you have your sort of urban desk squads,

2248
02:00:48,560 --> 02:00:52,480
Speaker 1: you have these like genocidal logger death squads, and that's

2249
02:00:52,520 --> 02:00:56,120
Speaker 1: been very effective. And you know, Okay, so like they

2250
02:00:56,480 --> 02:00:59,320
Speaker 1: lost this one election, but you know, their their position

2251
02:00:59,360 --> 02:01:01,840
Speaker 1: inside resil in politics is still really strong. They control

2252
02:01:01,880 --> 02:01:06,080
Speaker 1: a bunch of like governorships, they like Bolsonoo's party and

2253
02:01:06,200 --> 02:01:10,320
Speaker 1: his coalition like control control the Brazilian parliament. Okay, so

2254
02:01:10,640 --> 02:01:13,480
Speaker 1: you know, like they're in a very strong position. But

2255
02:01:13,600 --> 02:01:17,200
Speaker 1: then they talked to the Americans and they imputed January

2256
02:01:17,320 --> 02:01:21,200
Speaker 1: six and stormed the capital, and at least right now,

2257
02:01:21,280 --> 02:01:24,040
Speaker 1: it looks like it's going really badly for them. Like

2258
02:01:24,200 --> 02:01:26,120
Speaker 1: even even the sort of like right wing Ali Great

2259
02:01:26,160 --> 02:01:30,920
Speaker 1: Process turned on them. Globo, which is like it's Brazil's

2260
02:01:30,920 --> 02:01:34,320
Speaker 1: biggest newspaper, well is the biggest new paper. It could

2261
02:01:34,320 --> 02:01:36,520
Speaker 1: be second biggest, I'm pretty sure's the biggest. It's funded

2262
02:01:36,560 --> 02:01:40,280
Speaker 1: by like right wing ship at billionaires um. But you know,

2263
02:01:40,520 --> 02:01:44,040
Speaker 1: their entire front page right now is just them yelling

2264
02:01:44,080 --> 02:01:46,840
Speaker 1: about the coup and like gleefully reporting them like like

2265
02:01:47,120 --> 02:01:49,440
Speaker 1: that they had a frit page thing for an individual

2266
02:01:49,600 --> 02:01:52,120
Speaker 1: sociology professor who stepped off a bus coming back from

2267
02:01:52,160 --> 02:01:54,840
Speaker 1: Brazilian immediately got arrested. Like this is this is the

2268
02:01:54,920 --> 02:01:57,200
Speaker 1: kind of sort of jubilation that it's really it's kind

2269
02:01:57,200 --> 02:01:59,880
Speaker 1: of it's kind of amazing too, because like kind of

2270
02:02:00,680 --> 02:02:05,640
Speaker 1: sociologist is also a bosonarist insurrection rate. Yeah, well okay,

2271
02:02:05,760 --> 02:02:07,640
Speaker 1: I feel like that. If you're a sociologist, there were

2272
02:02:07,680 --> 02:02:10,960
Speaker 1: exactly two you have. You have three paths. One has

2273
02:02:11,000 --> 02:02:14,120
Speaker 1: you become a cop? Two is you is you do

2274
02:02:14,240 --> 02:02:16,680
Speaker 1: the Italian thing and you become the Red Brigades. Yeah,

2275
02:02:17,200 --> 02:02:19,760
Speaker 1: that was that. That was That was Italy's first sociology department,

2276
02:02:19,800 --> 02:02:21,680
Speaker 1: by the way, I turned out the Red Brigades or

2277
02:02:21,760 --> 02:02:25,680
Speaker 1: three you become a Nazi. Those are your three options. Yeah,

2278
02:02:25,720 --> 02:02:30,080
Speaker 1: there are. Yeah. I've never been unfortunate enough to run

2279
02:02:30,120 --> 02:02:32,800
Speaker 1: into any of the chad sociologies, to be very right,

2280
02:02:32,840 --> 02:02:36,400
Speaker 1: they are there. Yeah, we we we stayed away from them.

2281
02:02:36,400 --> 02:02:40,760
Speaker 1: In the anthro department, we're like nope, no, Yeah, I've

2282
02:02:40,800 --> 02:02:43,760
Speaker 1: taught in sociology before and you definitely do get a

2283
02:02:43,800 --> 02:02:45,160
Speaker 1: lot of students who are there to be a cop.

2284
02:02:45,240 --> 02:02:48,880
Speaker 1: I've forgotten about that. Yeah, it sucks. I will say

2285
02:02:49,560 --> 02:02:52,360
Speaker 1: Brazil has had at least one. I feel like they've

2286
02:02:52,400 --> 02:02:56,879
Speaker 1: had at least a couple of sociologist presidents. For Fernando

2287
02:02:56,920 --> 02:02:59,720
Speaker 1: Henrique Cardoso was what yeah, what was the sociologist was

2288
02:02:59,720 --> 02:03:03,360
Speaker 1: presid it for a while and then he got replaced

2289
02:03:03,400 --> 02:03:05,920
Speaker 1: by Lula Um. This is this has been This has

2290
02:03:05,960 --> 02:03:08,800
Speaker 1: been a tangent about what happens when you put sociology

2291
02:03:09,320 --> 02:03:14,240
Speaker 1: professor's lefted out of their cages. Uh so okay, And

2292
02:03:14,440 --> 02:03:16,120
Speaker 1: you know, I would say this is going back to

2293
02:03:16,160 --> 02:03:17,840
Speaker 1: global for a second, Like some of the stuff that

2294
02:03:17,840 --> 02:03:21,080
Speaker 1: they're saying is not exactly true. Like they're they're they're

2295
02:03:21,120 --> 02:03:23,080
Speaker 1: trying to sort of make a separation between the like

2296
02:03:23,160 --> 02:03:26,320
Speaker 1: extremist Wilsonario eastas and then like the people in Parliament,

2297
02:03:26,480 --> 02:03:29,320
Speaker 1: and it's like okay, so like yeah, they have this

2298
02:03:29,360 --> 02:03:31,400
Speaker 1: whole thing about these are streamists with no support in

2299
02:03:31,440 --> 02:03:34,120
Speaker 1: Parliament and it's like okay, buddy, Like there are literally

2300
02:03:34,240 --> 02:03:39,880
Speaker 1: people like in Congress who are in Congress because they

2301
02:03:39,960 --> 02:03:43,360
Speaker 1: were elected because they filmed themselves doing right wing trucker borodblocks,

2302
02:03:43,640 --> 02:03:46,520
Speaker 1: Like you know, okay, like well if one of these

2303
02:03:46,560 --> 02:03:49,040
Speaker 1: other things, one of the other stories, was them talking,

2304
02:03:49,160 --> 02:03:53,480
Speaker 1: was them talking about I Brazilian politicians frantically deleting the

2305
02:03:53,560 --> 02:03:58,960
Speaker 1: social media posts in support of the protests. So okay,

2306
02:03:59,160 --> 02:04:03,120
Speaker 1: you know it is it is actually true that like

2307
02:04:03,240 --> 02:04:05,080
Speaker 1: a lot of like even both people in both to

2308
02:04:05,080 --> 02:04:10,440
Speaker 1: know his own party like denounced it. But you know, yeah,

2309
02:04:10,480 --> 02:04:12,120
Speaker 1: I mean we saw the same ship, right, and then

2310
02:04:12,160 --> 02:04:14,520
Speaker 1: they'll gradually reimagine it over the next two or three

2311
02:04:14,600 --> 02:04:19,240
Speaker 1: years to where like that they're they're not denounced again. Well, well,

2312
02:04:19,320 --> 02:04:22,120
Speaker 1: we'll see what happens, because there is also a chance

2313
02:04:22,160 --> 02:04:27,320
Speaker 1: here that like everyone who was even intitentially like everyone

2314
02:04:27,480 --> 02:04:32,240
Speaker 1: was like, we'll back out of this. I'm not a

2315
02:04:32,280 --> 02:04:34,600
Speaker 1: big pro prison guy, but the video of them arriving

2316
02:04:34,640 --> 02:04:37,360
Speaker 1: in a coach at the jail was pretty immediate. That

2317
02:04:37,520 --> 02:04:45,160
Speaker 1: was pretty funny. Yeah, So okay, so right now it

2318
02:04:45,280 --> 02:04:47,240
Speaker 1: looks like this has gone pretty badly for them. Again,

2319
02:04:47,280 --> 02:04:49,600
Speaker 1: this is this is this is being recorded one day

2320
02:04:49,720 --> 02:04:51,720
Speaker 1: after it happens. So I don't know if if the

2321
02:04:51,840 --> 02:04:54,600
Speaker 1: army has actually done the coup tomorrow. It's not my fault,

2322
02:04:54,640 --> 02:04:58,920
Speaker 1: it wasn't out yet. But you know, I think we

2323
02:04:58,960 --> 02:05:01,120
Speaker 1: should we should ask shoud take a step back and

2324
02:05:01,240 --> 02:05:04,920
Speaker 1: ask why is this happening, And I think we should

2325
02:05:04,920 --> 02:05:07,560
Speaker 1: we should ask why did this happen in the same

2326
02:05:08,280 --> 02:05:12,240
Speaker 1: way in both the US em Brazil and why did

2327
02:05:12,320 --> 02:05:15,720
Speaker 1: it not work? And the answer to this is that

2328
02:05:15,840 --> 02:05:18,640
Speaker 1: the capital is a trap. What what what the American

2329
02:05:18,680 --> 02:05:21,840
Speaker 1: and Brazilian right has ran into, sort of ironically, is

2330
02:05:21,960 --> 02:05:26,040
Speaker 1: the crisis of the century revolutionary movement. So to explain

2331
02:05:26,120 --> 02:05:27,600
Speaker 1: what I mean here, I'm gonna I'm gonna read a

2332
02:05:27,640 --> 02:05:29,680
Speaker 1: bit of to our Friends, which is a work produced

2333
02:05:29,720 --> 02:05:33,200
Speaker 1: in late by the Invisible Committee, which is the pen

2334
02:05:33,320 --> 02:05:35,440
Speaker 1: name of some French anarchists who are most famous of

2335
02:05:35,520 --> 02:05:38,920
Speaker 1: writing The Coming Insurrection. Um. I'm not normally a huge

2336
02:05:38,920 --> 02:05:41,240
Speaker 1: fan of their work, but they got they got one

2337
02:05:41,400 --> 02:05:46,680
Speaker 1: thing very very right, and that's this occupation of the

2338
02:05:46,760 --> 02:05:50,080
Speaker 1: Kaspa and Tunis, and of the Stagma Square and Athens,

2339
02:05:50,240 --> 02:05:52,800
Speaker 1: siege of Westminster and London during the student movement of

2340
02:05:52,800 --> 02:05:56,120
Speaker 1: two thousand and eleven, encirclement of the Parliament in Madrid

2341
02:05:56,240 --> 02:06:00,600
Speaker 1: and September twelve, or in Barcelona on June five, thousand eleven,

2342
02:06:01,200 --> 02:06:04,360
Speaker 1: riots all around the Chamber of Deputies in Rome, December

2343
02:06:04,440 --> 02:06:09,360
Speaker 1: four attempt on October fifteenth, thousand eleven, in Lisbon to

2344
02:06:09,440 --> 02:06:12,680
Speaker 1: invade the Assembly at the REPUBLICA birding of the Bosnian

2345
02:06:12,720 --> 02:06:18,320
Speaker 1: presidential residents in February. The places of institutional power exert

2346
02:06:18,360 --> 02:06:22,280
Speaker 1: in magnetic attraction on revolutionaries. But when the insurgents managed

2347
02:06:22,280 --> 02:06:26,840
Speaker 1: to penetrate parliaments, presidential palaces, and other headquarters of institutions,

2348
02:06:27,280 --> 02:06:30,560
Speaker 1: as in Ukraine, in Libya, or in Wisconsin, it's only

2349
02:06:30,640 --> 02:06:34,160
Speaker 1: to discover empty places that is empty of power and

2350
02:06:34,240 --> 02:06:38,040
Speaker 1: furnished without any taste. It's not to prevent the people

2351
02:06:38,600 --> 02:06:41,800
Speaker 1: from taking power that they are so fiercely kept from

2352
02:06:41,800 --> 02:06:45,000
Speaker 1: invading such places, but to prevent them from realizing that

2353
02:06:45,080 --> 02:06:48,480
Speaker 1: power no longer resides in the institutions. There are only

2354
02:06:48,560 --> 02:06:53,880
Speaker 1: deserted temples there, decommissioned fortresses, nothing but stage sets, real

2355
02:06:54,000 --> 02:06:58,040
Speaker 1: traps revolutionaries. The popular impulse to rush onto the stage

2356
02:06:58,120 --> 02:06:59,880
Speaker 1: to find out what is happening in the wings is

2357
02:07:00,000 --> 02:07:03,320
Speaker 1: down to be disappointed. If they got inside, even the

2358
02:07:03,400 --> 02:07:06,320
Speaker 1: most ferbrent conspiracy freaks would find nothing ur cane there.

2359
02:07:06,920 --> 02:07:09,600
Speaker 1: The truth is that power is simply no longer that

2360
02:07:09,720 --> 02:07:14,960
Speaker 1: theatrical reality to which maternity accustomed us. Yeah, and gets

2361
02:07:15,760 --> 02:07:19,160
Speaker 1: very prescient and like, and it's we're raised on these

2362
02:07:19,200 --> 02:07:21,000
Speaker 1: myths right, both on the left and right, Like on

2363
02:07:21,080 --> 02:07:22,640
Speaker 1: the on the right, like there are these myths of

2364
02:07:23,040 --> 02:07:25,520
Speaker 1: these American institutions which took great and unique and shining

2365
02:07:25,560 --> 02:07:27,800
Speaker 1: cities on the hill and on the left, like we're

2366
02:07:27,880 --> 02:07:30,680
Speaker 1: raised with the storming of the Bastille and stuff like that.

2367
02:07:30,760 --> 02:07:33,440
Speaker 1: As he's the Winter Palace, right, these moments have kind

2368
02:07:33,480 --> 02:07:38,120
Speaker 1: of revolutionary change. But yeah, and I want to I

2369
02:07:38,320 --> 02:07:40,120
Speaker 1: want to specifically, I want to take a second talk

2370
02:07:40,120 --> 02:07:42,480
Speaker 1: about the Winter Palace because this is actually something that

2371
02:07:42,840 --> 02:07:45,320
Speaker 1: I think sort of worryingly this is uh Nick what

2372
02:07:45,520 --> 02:07:47,160
Speaker 1: is actually talked about this in one of his podcasts,

2373
02:07:47,160 --> 02:07:49,280
Speaker 1: which is that like and he's right about this, which

2374
02:07:49,320 --> 02:07:51,640
Speaker 1: is that like the like there there there are like

2375
02:07:51,760 --> 02:07:53,680
Speaker 1: you can't actually just store with Winter Palace and take

2376
02:07:53,720 --> 02:07:56,000
Speaker 1: power right, doesn't work anymore. And but but but I

2377
02:07:56,040 --> 02:07:59,600
Speaker 1: think it's actually worth like taking like two minutes to

2378
02:08:00,040 --> 02:08:02,960
Speaker 1: layout why that's true. And it's because the Winter Palace

2379
02:08:03,720 --> 02:08:05,760
Speaker 1: was like a once in like a like like a

2380
02:08:05,880 --> 02:08:08,520
Speaker 1: once in a century historical moment, and it only worked

2381
02:08:08,760 --> 02:08:10,640
Speaker 1: because and this is something that I think people forget.

2382
02:08:11,000 --> 02:08:12,720
Speaker 1: The storming of the Winter Palace was not the thing

2383
02:08:12,760 --> 02:08:14,760
Speaker 1: that overthrew the Czar that was later. That was that

2384
02:08:14,800 --> 02:08:17,080
Speaker 1: was the February Revolution. That is a completely given revolution,

2385
02:08:17,440 --> 02:08:19,320
Speaker 1: the Stormy of the Winter Palace. And the reason why

2386
02:08:19,400 --> 02:08:21,800
Speaker 1: that worked was that the government that that that the

2387
02:08:21,840 --> 02:08:24,520
Speaker 1: Polsheviks were overthrowing was Kerensky's government, which is just like

2388
02:08:24,760 --> 02:08:29,120
Speaker 1: really dipshit like interim interim governments that was only supposed

2389
02:08:29,120 --> 02:08:30,760
Speaker 1: to be their own town election happened and had like

2390
02:08:31,240 --> 02:08:34,200
Speaker 1: the most fig leaf legitimacy of any government ever. Everyone

2391
02:08:34,320 --> 02:08:36,720
Speaker 1: hated them, they had no supporters with but and any

2392
02:08:36,720 --> 02:08:38,920
Speaker 1: of this is why it worked, right because when they

2393
02:08:39,040 --> 02:08:41,160
Speaker 1: had no power at all, and so when the bull

2394
02:08:41,160 --> 02:08:43,400
Speaker 1: shwiks rolled in on them, everyone else just stayed home.

2395
02:08:44,120 --> 02:08:46,880
Speaker 1: And that is not going to work in any modern

2396
02:08:46,960 --> 02:08:50,400
Speaker 1: context unless like I don't know, you're like you're you

2397
02:08:50,600 --> 02:08:52,880
Speaker 1: two were also like two years in a revolution and

2398
02:08:53,000 --> 02:08:56,560
Speaker 1: there's like three years into a war. Yeah, there's like

2399
02:08:56,600 --> 02:08:58,800
Speaker 1: an incredibly fig leave government. Maybe you can pull this off,

2400
02:08:58,880 --> 02:09:00,840
Speaker 1: but like that that that that is not that is

2401
02:09:00,920 --> 02:09:04,720
Speaker 1: a absolutely terrible, god awful model for attempting to seize

2402
02:09:05,280 --> 02:09:07,960
Speaker 1: like any kind of power or bring down any governments.

2403
02:09:08,520 --> 02:09:10,880
Speaker 1: But you know, it's it's become because that because that

2404
02:09:10,960 --> 02:09:13,880
Speaker 1: became the sort of like mythology of of the Soviet

2405
02:09:13,960 --> 02:09:16,600
Speaker 1: Union that you know, that was sort of burned, the

2406
02:09:16,640 --> 02:09:18,920
Speaker 1: sort of false image of that was burned into the

2407
02:09:18,960 --> 02:09:22,240
Speaker 1: certain memory of of collective memory of the left to

2408
02:09:22,280 --> 02:09:24,440
Speaker 1: the point where, like, most people don't even remember that

2409
02:09:24,560 --> 02:09:28,440
Speaker 1: Kerensky was also technically a socialist and that like and

2410
02:09:28,520 --> 02:09:32,160
Speaker 1: that that's how revolution was a socialist. Like a group

2411
02:09:32,200 --> 02:09:34,520
Speaker 1: of socialists overthrowing another group of socialists, and both of

2412
02:09:34,560 --> 02:09:38,160
Speaker 1: them have a very tenuous sort of like it's tenuous

2413
02:09:38,200 --> 02:09:41,480
Speaker 1: and whether they're either of them are socialists at all? Yeah,

2414
02:09:41,520 --> 02:09:43,080
Speaker 1: and then going on to take power and kill a

2415
02:09:43,120 --> 02:09:45,600
Speaker 1: bunt too bad of the socialists. Yeah, yeah, okay, so

2416
02:09:46,200 --> 02:09:48,360
Speaker 1: that aside, you know, this this crisis I was talking about,

2417
02:09:48,360 --> 02:09:49,640
Speaker 1: like this is the reason why we're here in the

2418
02:09:49,720 --> 02:09:52,240
Speaker 1: first place. Right, it's in large part because of the

2419
02:09:52,320 --> 02:09:55,480
Speaker 1: failure to overcome the movement of power out of the

2420
02:09:55,520 --> 02:09:58,040
Speaker 1: sort of palace where people expected to be that in

2421
02:09:58,080 --> 02:10:00,200
Speaker 1: the two thousand eleven revolutions failed like that that that

2422
02:10:00,320 --> 02:10:03,520
Speaker 1: that's why we're here in hell world because people people

2423
02:10:03,600 --> 02:10:06,800
Speaker 1: were sort of unable to figure out a way to

2424
02:10:07,040 --> 02:10:09,720
Speaker 1: actually bring down our government instead of sort of being

2425
02:10:09,840 --> 02:10:14,440
Speaker 1: like drawn magnetically into these traps. But those problems sort

2426
02:10:14,440 --> 02:10:17,160
Speaker 1: of like magnetic draw the Capitol building to will be revolutionaries.

2427
02:10:17,520 --> 02:10:19,240
Speaker 1: This is just as much a problem to the right

2428
02:10:19,320 --> 02:10:22,440
Speaker 1: as it is the left. And for right now, this

2429
02:10:22,560 --> 02:10:26,120
Speaker 1: has saved us. It's caused the Brazilian right to abandon

2430
02:10:26,240 --> 02:10:29,680
Speaker 1: things they were doing that actually, like are genuinely terrifying

2431
02:10:29,720 --> 02:10:32,839
Speaker 1: and you know, could could have been and have been effective.

2432
02:10:33,360 --> 02:10:35,680
Speaker 1: Like for example, one of one of the cleanup operations

2433
02:10:35,720 --> 02:10:39,080
Speaker 1: that was happening today was the Brazilian army cleared a

2434
02:10:39,120 --> 02:10:40,960
Speaker 1: bunch of these people who were trying to do blockades

2435
02:10:40,960 --> 02:10:45,120
Speaker 1: to state oil facilities, and you know that actually could

2436
02:10:45,160 --> 02:10:49,520
Speaker 1: have worked, right like that, Yeah, and you know, and

2437
02:10:49,640 --> 02:10:51,520
Speaker 1: and yeah, we've talked about this before and then the

2438
02:10:51,560 --> 02:10:53,120
Speaker 1: other and the other sort of bose in our episodes.

2439
02:10:53,280 --> 02:10:55,280
Speaker 1: But like that, those kind of like trucker blockade things,

2440
02:10:55,320 --> 02:10:59,320
Speaker 1: blocking highways, blockades like those are tactics that the Brazilian

2441
02:10:59,440 --> 02:11:04,080
Speaker 1: rights sort of natively uses. And there's a world where

2442
02:11:04,120 --> 02:11:06,240
Speaker 1: the Brazilian fascist sticks to their instincts and instead of

2443
02:11:06,320 --> 02:11:08,240
Speaker 1: doing this doomed attempt to s from the capital, they

2444
02:11:08,280 --> 02:11:10,920
Speaker 1: put these same numbers of people into trucks with roadblocks

2445
02:11:10,960 --> 02:11:12,560
Speaker 1: and burning tires and they try to shut down their

2446
02:11:12,560 --> 02:11:16,080
Speaker 1: Brazilian economy. You know, in essence, there's a world where

2447
02:11:16,120 --> 02:11:20,640
Speaker 1: instead of doing it October an impossible like January sixth revolution,

2448
02:11:21,320 --> 02:11:24,760
Speaker 1: where they do an invisible committee one where they realize

2449
02:11:24,800 --> 02:11:27,240
Speaker 1: the powers and logistics and attempting to shut shut down

2450
02:11:27,280 --> 02:11:28,880
Speaker 1: its flow is how you do a revolution. And that

2451
02:11:29,000 --> 02:11:31,640
Speaker 1: is a world that is a lot scarier than the

2452
02:11:31,720 --> 02:11:34,760
Speaker 1: one that we're in. But and you know, I think

2453
02:11:34,840 --> 02:11:37,480
Speaker 1: we'll see how this ultimate plays out. But I actually

2454
02:11:37,520 --> 02:11:39,640
Speaker 1: think the fact that this was planned for Orlando is

2455
02:11:40,960 --> 02:11:43,400
Speaker 1: like you know, with the help of sort of the

2456
02:11:43,480 --> 02:11:46,520
Speaker 1: usual American generay seth crowd, I think this actually really

2457
02:11:46,800 --> 02:11:52,800
Speaker 1: really fucked them, like it it really deeply hurt sort

2458
02:11:52,800 --> 02:11:58,160
Speaker 1: of the Brazilian fascist provement, which is good. Um It

2459
02:11:58,200 --> 02:12:00,400
Speaker 1: always like when I see the I think about this

2460
02:12:00,520 --> 02:12:03,960
Speaker 1: recently with like um me and mar and everything else,

2461
02:12:04,040 --> 02:12:06,640
Speaker 1: Like I always come back like marcusa where he talks

2462
02:12:06,680 --> 02:12:09,320
Speaker 1: about the false choice of masters by slaves and like

2463
02:12:09,480 --> 02:12:12,920
Speaker 1: how the solution is not this like one big sort

2464
02:12:12,960 --> 02:12:16,880
Speaker 1: of like like big I didn't want to call it,

2465
02:12:17,000 --> 02:12:20,040
Speaker 1: like symbolic kind of active violence, but like the great

2466
02:12:20,080 --> 02:12:23,160
Speaker 1: refusal to participate in these things, which is something that

2467
02:12:23,240 --> 02:12:24,880
Speaker 1: lots of people have power to do as opposed to

2468
02:12:25,520 --> 02:12:27,880
Speaker 1: doing this stupid ship which centralizes them in one place

2469
02:12:27,920 --> 02:12:32,120
Speaker 1: to get some all arrested. Well, I mean it's also

2470
02:12:32,280 --> 02:12:33,920
Speaker 1: likes there's another sort of part of this, which is

2471
02:12:33,960 --> 02:12:38,000
Speaker 1: that like both in the US and in Brazil, the

2472
02:12:38,120 --> 02:12:40,680
Speaker 1: right is not very good at fighting the cops. Like

2473
02:12:41,200 --> 02:12:44,280
Speaker 1: they got that one horse cup pretty good. There's a

2474
02:12:44,360 --> 02:12:46,040
Speaker 1: couple that like don't get a cold people, but like

2475
02:12:46,400 --> 02:12:48,680
Speaker 1: they're only they only do well when they're really like

2476
02:12:48,720 --> 02:12:51,480
Speaker 1: when they outnumber the cops like a hundred or one. Yeah,

2477
02:12:51,800 --> 02:12:54,120
Speaker 1: that is different in Europe. That is a thing that

2478
02:12:54,280 --> 02:12:57,360
Speaker 1: like like if you look at Whereasov comes from, Asov

2479
02:12:57,440 --> 02:12:59,960
Speaker 1: comes from right wing football hooligans who like the front

2480
02:13:00,080 --> 02:13:03,080
Speaker 1: line in the minda and beat the ship into the cops. Yeah.

2481
02:13:03,240 --> 02:13:04,960
Speaker 1: But but but in the in the US, it's like,

2482
02:13:06,440 --> 02:13:11,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, everyone's just like this doesn't fight the

2483
02:13:11,640 --> 02:13:15,000
Speaker 1: busy shooting people. Yeah, but there isn't that history of

2484
02:13:15,120 --> 02:13:17,360
Speaker 1: like like that's not I'm not don't just want to

2485
02:13:17,400 --> 02:13:19,280
Speaker 1: pick on like where I come from, but like like

2486
02:13:20,080 --> 02:13:23,280
Speaker 1: crowd violence, like like football hood against like that that

2487
02:13:23,640 --> 02:13:26,160
Speaker 1: doesn't exist in a meaningful sense in the US, it's

2488
02:13:26,200 --> 02:13:29,560
Speaker 1: not as commonplace, and there isn't that like institutional memory

2489
02:13:29,640 --> 02:13:34,240
Speaker 1: of fighting riot police that exists all over Europe. Yeah, well,

2490
02:13:34,280 --> 02:13:37,240
Speaker 1: I think I think the thing is that, like, okay,

2491
02:13:37,760 --> 02:13:40,120
Speaker 1: American sports fans do fight the cops, but they only

2492
02:13:40,160 --> 02:13:45,080
Speaker 1: do it once a year, if that like the super Bowl. Yeah, well,

2493
02:13:45,200 --> 02:13:47,160
Speaker 1: you know, they'll do with the NHL, but things like

2494
02:13:47,440 --> 02:13:50,320
Speaker 1: it's only it's only like maybe like three cities a

2495
02:13:50,440 --> 02:13:53,640
Speaker 1: year that do it, right, Yeah, and everyone series too.

2496
02:13:53,680 --> 02:13:55,640
Speaker 1: It's harder because the World Series has this whole sort

2497
02:13:55,680 --> 02:13:57,840
Speaker 1: of like like that they have the parade, they have

2498
02:13:57,920 --> 02:13:59,840
Speaker 1: this whole stage managing to people, they get people stop

2499
02:13:59,880 --> 02:14:02,920
Speaker 1: from writing. So really there's only like two or three

2500
02:14:03,000 --> 02:14:05,560
Speaker 1: events per year where you can get riots, whereas like

2501
02:14:05,680 --> 02:14:10,200
Speaker 1: in Europe, any time, yeah, any given Saturday, he could

2502
02:14:10,240 --> 02:14:13,320
Speaker 1: be throwing down with a cop on a horse. But

2503
02:14:13,480 --> 02:14:16,040
Speaker 1: like it's outside of it. It's gone long beyond that.

2504
02:14:16,200 --> 02:14:19,000
Speaker 1: Like I remember in like just before this two thousand

2505
02:14:19,000 --> 02:14:22,240
Speaker 1: eleven moment, like the two the earlier two thousands antig

2506
02:14:22,360 --> 02:14:26,200
Speaker 1: eight movement, like the institutional knowledge on how to deal

2507
02:14:26,320 --> 02:14:29,120
Speaker 1: with large volumes of police and still get your point across,

2508
02:14:29,640 --> 02:14:32,040
Speaker 1: just as we saw in twenty did not exist here

2509
02:14:32,040 --> 02:14:34,080
Speaker 1: and had to be imported from Hong Kong and other places,

2510
02:14:34,760 --> 02:14:40,000
Speaker 1: badly imported in Yeah, but infographic from Hong Kong. Yeah,

2511
02:14:41,080 --> 02:14:43,600
Speaker 1: So okay. Having said all of this, this is not

2512
02:14:43,760 --> 02:14:47,560
Speaker 1: to say that everything is fine. Um, it's not. Uh,

2513
02:14:47,920 --> 02:14:51,560
Speaker 1: you know. I think something that's that's very important that

2514
02:14:51,640 --> 02:14:55,600
Speaker 1: I have not seen anyone talk about either in either

2515
02:14:55,800 --> 02:15:00,080
Speaker 1: sort of generosic of January eight, is that the the

2516
02:15:00,280 --> 02:15:02,160
Speaker 1: reaction to the coup on the left, and this is

2517
02:15:02,240 --> 02:15:03,800
Speaker 1: as true of the Brazilian left as it was with

2518
02:15:03,800 --> 02:15:05,480
Speaker 1: the American left. In fact, I think the American lifted

2519
02:15:05,480 --> 02:15:09,480
Speaker 1: American lefted way worse. In January six was paralysis, right,

2520
02:15:09,560 --> 02:15:11,680
Speaker 1: even in Brazil, which has these sort of one body

2521
02:15:11,760 --> 02:15:14,800
Speaker 1: social movements kind of mobilizations took almost a full day

2522
02:15:14,840 --> 02:15:16,960
Speaker 1: and materialized by the type, you know, by which point

2523
02:15:16,960 --> 02:15:19,560
Speaker 1: the threat already dissipated. So you know, for a for

2524
02:15:19,680 --> 02:15:22,640
Speaker 1: a full day, the only thing standing between the fascist

2525
02:15:22,720 --> 02:15:25,760
Speaker 1: and power was their own stupidity. And you know, as

2526
02:15:25,800 --> 02:15:28,320
Speaker 1: boundless as their stupidity seems like, watching these people like

2527
02:15:28,400 --> 02:15:31,480
Speaker 1: taking a dump on a cabinet, like with a camera

2528
02:15:32,160 --> 02:15:34,960
Speaker 1: in front of them, like it's not actually a shield

2529
02:15:34,960 --> 02:15:38,240
Speaker 1: against fascism, Like every every fascism after Bussolini and even Napoleon.

2530
02:15:38,320 --> 02:15:40,680
Speaker 1: The third who's like the sort of modern prototype of fascism,

2531
02:15:41,000 --> 02:15:44,280
Speaker 1: has at least one and usually two or three comically

2532
02:15:44,360 --> 02:15:48,480
Speaker 1: stupid like uprisings and coups that just fail, and they

2533
02:15:48,520 --> 02:15:50,520
Speaker 1: failed when everyone lasted them, and then number four, they're

2534
02:15:50,520 --> 02:15:53,920
Speaker 1: suddenly in power and it's like, wow, you can't you

2535
02:15:54,040 --> 02:15:57,080
Speaker 1: can't actually write these things off because they're funny, because

2536
02:15:57,160 --> 02:16:00,160
Speaker 1: again they're always funny for the first like two. Then

2537
02:16:00,200 --> 02:16:01,840
Speaker 1: on number three, like all your friends are being bars

2538
02:16:01,880 --> 02:16:04,440
Speaker 1: into a camp and shot, and it's like wow, yeah,

2539
02:16:04,920 --> 02:16:08,200
Speaker 1: and like we don't want to be in a place

2540
02:16:08,240 --> 02:16:10,360
Speaker 1: where like one growing up in the room is all

2541
02:16:10,440 --> 02:16:13,280
Speaker 1: that's between us and fascism, right like and adult making

2542
02:16:13,320 --> 02:16:16,680
Speaker 1: a plan, And I think there's there's a specific like

2543
02:16:17,880 --> 02:16:19,880
Speaker 1: I actually I think social media actually plays a really

2544
02:16:19,960 --> 02:16:22,800
Speaker 1: big role in this because you know, I can I

2545
02:16:22,840 --> 02:16:26,120
Speaker 1: remember this January six, like there was this kind of

2546
02:16:26,280 --> 02:16:29,080
Speaker 1: like the way that just turns everyone into a spectator.

2547
02:16:30,720 --> 02:16:33,200
Speaker 1: Everyone was just like, you know, I think it was

2548
02:16:33,320 --> 02:16:34,879
Speaker 1: Vicky Ouster, while I think was the first person who

2549
02:16:34,879 --> 02:16:37,520
Speaker 1: said this was like Twitter twit. Twitter is a machine

2550
02:16:37,600 --> 02:16:41,520
Speaker 1: that turns action into discourse. Yeah, and so you know what,

2551
02:16:41,720 --> 02:16:43,960
Speaker 1: while it was going on, right like everyone turned the

2552
02:16:44,040 --> 02:16:46,000
Speaker 1: action of the thing into discourse. Everyone was sort of

2553
02:16:46,000 --> 02:16:50,240
Speaker 1: like sitting there paralyzed watching it. And that is fatal

2554
02:16:50,480 --> 02:16:52,520
Speaker 1: like like that if you look at the actual stress

2555
02:16:52,600 --> 02:16:54,800
Speaker 1: test of the sort of machinery of power, right, like,

2556
02:16:55,120 --> 02:16:56,840
Speaker 1: it's actually I think it's actually much less of a

2557
02:16:56,920 --> 02:16:59,600
Speaker 1: big deal that the cops were on their side of

2558
02:16:59,600 --> 02:17:02,000
Speaker 1: the cops in Responder, because the cops eventually did clear

2559
02:17:02,040 --> 02:17:03,800
Speaker 1: them out right, it took it took a long time.

2560
02:17:04,320 --> 02:17:06,000
Speaker 1: The cons eventually did it. But I think I think

2561
02:17:06,040 --> 02:17:09,520
Speaker 1: the thing is actually more dangerous is that like there

2562
02:17:09,640 --> 02:17:11,480
Speaker 1: was there like there wasn't a response to the left

2563
02:17:11,520 --> 02:17:14,560
Speaker 1: at all. There's nothing right like there there were there

2564
02:17:14,600 --> 02:17:17,200
Speaker 1: were rallies in Seal Pollo. Like the next day was

2565
02:17:17,200 --> 02:17:20,000
Speaker 1: actually funny because both both both the rallies, both like

2566
02:17:20,120 --> 02:17:22,040
Speaker 1: the people sacking the capital and the people in sal

2567
02:17:22,120 --> 02:17:25,160
Speaker 1: Polo were both were both singing the national anthem, which

2568
02:17:25,240 --> 02:17:30,240
Speaker 1: is some real fun politics moments. It's another thing to

2569
02:17:30,320 --> 02:17:34,800
Speaker 1: talk about. Yeah, but yeah, you compare that to Spain,

2570
02:17:34,879 --> 02:17:37,039
Speaker 1: which somebviously where I'm most familiar with well, like people

2571
02:17:37,080 --> 02:17:39,560
Speaker 1: immediately got guns Scott in the street and started killing

2572
02:17:39,640 --> 02:17:43,360
Speaker 1: soldiers when they had much more effective and organized coup, right,

2573
02:17:43,360 --> 02:17:45,240
Speaker 1: and that coup would have failed where not for fascist

2574
02:17:45,280 --> 02:17:48,920
Speaker 1: intervention from abroad. But yeah, Brazil has powerful unions who

2575
02:17:48,959 --> 02:17:51,840
Speaker 1: did shit. Yeah, well, and partially I think that's that's

2576
02:17:51,840 --> 02:17:53,040
Speaker 1: like that has to do with the hollowing out of

2577
02:17:53,080 --> 02:17:56,920
Speaker 1: the unions and there's there's sort of long story here,

2578
02:17:56,959 --> 02:17:58,480
Speaker 1: but like you know, and even if you look at

2579
02:17:58,560 --> 02:18:00,200
Speaker 1: like I think this is this is a sign really

2580
02:18:00,320 --> 02:18:05,800
Speaker 1: of sort of how actually dynamic the left is because

2581
02:18:05,800 --> 02:18:06,920
Speaker 1: you know, if if if you want to look at

2582
02:18:06,959 --> 02:18:09,840
Speaker 1: like like a dynamic Latin American left, like they you know,

2583
02:18:09,920 --> 02:18:11,840
Speaker 1: there there was there was there was a very very

2584
02:18:11,920 --> 02:18:17,320
Speaker 1: well organized US backed coup against Hugo Chavez. She doesn't one.

2585
02:18:17,440 --> 02:18:21,160
Speaker 1: I was just one. It was it was just before

2586
02:18:21,200 --> 02:18:26,520
Speaker 1: I moved there, so I think it would. Ah, there

2587
02:18:26,560 --> 02:18:29,000
Speaker 1: were other coup attempts in Venezuela two that were less

2588
02:18:29,040 --> 02:18:32,720
Speaker 1: well organized. Yeah, she doesn't too. Yeah, he doesn't too.

2589
02:18:33,360 --> 02:18:35,800
Speaker 1: And yeah, that one't got far enough that like the

2590
02:18:35,879 --> 02:18:38,199
Speaker 1: New York Times was like had an article out about

2591
02:18:38,200 --> 02:18:43,840
Speaker 1: how democracy had been restored to the Cuba to Venezuela

2592
02:18:44,160 --> 02:18:46,000
Speaker 1: and then you know the thing, the thing that happened

2593
02:18:46,000 --> 02:18:47,840
Speaker 1: after that, and then there's there's a very famous movie

2594
02:18:47,920 --> 02:18:50,600
Speaker 1: of this from from a filmmaker who was just there.

2595
02:18:51,480 --> 02:18:53,760
Speaker 1: Is that over over over the next forty seven hours,

2596
02:18:54,120 --> 02:18:57,400
Speaker 1: like the left mobilized and they put so many people

2597
02:18:57,440 --> 02:19:00,440
Speaker 1: in the street that like the Coop Water has had

2598
02:19:00,480 --> 02:19:02,240
Speaker 1: to back down, and Hugo Travis has got to be

2599
02:19:02,320 --> 02:19:05,280
Speaker 1: president and you know that that's the thing that that's

2600
02:19:05,280 --> 02:19:07,080
Speaker 1: the thing that a strong left can do, right, they

2601
02:19:07,160 --> 02:19:10,560
Speaker 1: can actually defeat the military. And yeah, but you know,

2602
02:19:10,680 --> 02:19:13,520
Speaker 1: but this didn't the US just we fell down on

2603
02:19:13,600 --> 02:19:17,840
Speaker 1: the job. Like there wasn't much of that in Brazil.

2604
02:19:18,360 --> 02:19:21,080
Speaker 1: Like I like like it, Like it is true, as

2605
02:19:21,160 --> 02:19:22,880
Speaker 1: Lulu was saying, that they picked a day when everyone

2606
02:19:23,000 --> 02:19:27,760
Speaker 1: was gone. But it's still, I think really alarming that

2607
02:19:29,440 --> 02:19:31,760
Speaker 1: just by just by sort of acting first, they have

2608
02:19:31,879 --> 02:19:35,520
Speaker 1: so much of a sort of time advantage, sort of

2609
02:19:35,520 --> 02:19:39,840
Speaker 1: an advantage of reaction over US. Yeah, that film, by

2610
02:19:39,840 --> 02:19:41,480
Speaker 1: the way, people want to watch is called The Revolution

2611
02:19:41,520 --> 02:19:43,720
Speaker 1: Will Not be Televised, which is kind of a great

2612
02:19:43,760 --> 02:19:46,640
Speaker 1: title to the spectative thing that you were talking about.

2613
02:19:47,400 --> 02:19:50,400
Speaker 1: And yeah, I watched that bat boy and VHS back

2614
02:19:50,440 --> 02:19:59,320
Speaker 1: in the day in Caracas. Wow, yeah, good times. So okay, finally,

2615
02:19:59,400 --> 02:20:01,600
Speaker 1: in a broad sense, I want to ask, like, what

2616
02:20:01,720 --> 02:20:06,280
Speaker 1: are we doing here right? Um, the sort of dominant

2617
02:20:06,320 --> 02:20:09,000
Speaker 1: mode of quote unquote anti fascism, and this is the

2618
02:20:09,040 --> 02:20:11,120
Speaker 1: model that's being adopted by Lula and the rest of

2619
02:20:11,160 --> 02:20:14,400
Speaker 1: the sort of liberal and even sort of moderate conservative

2620
02:20:14,440 --> 02:20:16,240
Speaker 1: ruling class in Brazil. It's what's been adopted by the

2621
02:20:16,280 --> 02:20:21,000
Speaker 1: Democrats is their anti fascism is posing their opposition to

2622
02:20:21,040 --> 02:20:24,720
Speaker 1: fascism as a defensive democracy, the rule of law. Mhm.

2623
02:20:26,520 --> 02:20:30,280
Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, let's look at what's actually happening. These

2624
02:20:30,400 --> 02:20:33,480
Speaker 1: coups aren't working. That's the sort of actual power. Military

2625
02:20:33,520 --> 02:20:36,120
Speaker 1: attempts to take power. They're losing every time. But do

2626
02:20:36,160 --> 02:20:39,080
Speaker 1: you know how the fascists are taking power by democracy?

2627
02:20:39,160 --> 02:20:42,000
Speaker 1: Their greatest success has been in taking power but just

2628
02:20:42,080 --> 02:20:44,880
Speaker 1: winning elections. Like look look at what happened in India, right,

2629
02:20:45,200 --> 02:20:48,280
Speaker 1: That is a country that has been like very nearly

2630
02:20:48,400 --> 02:20:51,120
Speaker 1: totally consumed by fascism, and it was done by just

2631
02:20:51,280 --> 02:20:56,080
Speaker 1: elections over and over and over again. Hungry. Yeah, even

2632
02:20:56,160 --> 02:21:00,240
Speaker 1: here on a fundamental level, like what we're seeing right

2633
02:21:00,280 --> 02:21:02,480
Speaker 1: now out of the sort of broad swath of social

2634
02:21:02,920 --> 02:21:06,480
Speaker 1: sort of liberalism, conservatism and social democracy is an unsustainable strategy,

2635
02:21:06,879 --> 02:21:10,680
Speaker 1: anti fashion, anti fascism as a pure defensive democracy is

2636
02:21:10,720 --> 02:21:12,880
Speaker 1: just preserving the machine that will hand the power of

2637
02:21:12,959 --> 02:21:14,920
Speaker 1: the state over to the fascist of the silver platter.

2638
02:21:16,160 --> 02:21:19,200
Speaker 1: And you know that like this, this defensive democracy in

2639
02:21:19,200 --> 02:21:21,680
Speaker 1: the abstract is a death march. Right. You know, if

2640
02:21:21,760 --> 02:21:23,280
Speaker 1: if you can, you can you can look at the

2641
02:21:23,320 --> 02:21:27,120
Speaker 1: sort of course of of the late nineties, the late century, Right,

2642
02:21:27,240 --> 02:21:29,680
Speaker 1: why did the bombs fall over Bagdad? Well, protect democracy?

2643
02:21:29,959 --> 02:21:32,119
Speaker 1: When when the Mexican government was shooting the Zapatistas, they're

2644
02:21:32,120 --> 02:21:35,360
Speaker 1: protecting democracy. When the cops rated the when the cops

2645
02:21:35,480 --> 02:21:37,879
Speaker 1: rated the Forest Defenders in Atlanta, Oh, it's because they

2646
02:21:37,920 --> 02:21:42,400
Speaker 1: were domestic terrorists who are threatening democracy. But what's happened

2647
02:21:42,440 --> 02:21:44,040
Speaker 1: here is that the threat of fascism has sort of

2648
02:21:44,120 --> 02:21:47,240
Speaker 1: press ganged armies of people who otherwise would be enemies

2649
02:21:47,480 --> 02:21:50,440
Speaker 1: of sort of capitalist quote unquote democracy into protecting the

2650
02:21:50,560 --> 02:21:52,840
Speaker 1: very institutions that are inevitably going to bring these people

2651
02:21:52,879 --> 02:21:57,480
Speaker 1: back into power. And that's really grim because it means

2652
02:21:57,520 --> 02:21:59,560
Speaker 1: that something has to change or we're just gonna come

2653
02:21:59,560 --> 02:22:02,240
Speaker 1: back here again and again and again, until eventually enough

2654
02:22:02,280 --> 02:22:04,560
Speaker 1: of the ruling class flips to back into fascists that

2655
02:22:04,600 --> 02:22:08,840
Speaker 1: they seiz power once and for all. So, you know, something,

2656
02:22:09,120 --> 02:22:11,600
Speaker 1: we have to do something else that's not just this

2657
02:22:11,920 --> 02:22:16,080
Speaker 1: that sort of desperate treading water. Yeah, like like fighting

2658
02:22:16,160 --> 02:22:18,600
Speaker 1: to stand still in this terrible place where people can't

2659
02:22:18,640 --> 02:22:21,480
Speaker 1: pay their heating bills and feed their families. Yeah, it's

2660
02:22:21,520 --> 02:22:26,760
Speaker 1: it's pretty dire sucking outlook for us, isn't it. Yeah?

2661
02:22:26,760 --> 02:22:28,280
Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, I would say this like

2662
02:22:28,360 --> 02:22:31,400
Speaker 1: that there was a vision inw of what that something

2663
02:22:31,440 --> 02:22:34,400
Speaker 1: else could be, right, Like, it's it's it's not it's

2664
02:22:34,440 --> 02:22:36,160
Speaker 1: it's it's not like we're in the depths of like

2665
02:22:36,400 --> 02:22:39,440
Speaker 1: the two thousands where no one has ever seen like

2666
02:22:40,000 --> 02:22:43,320
Speaker 1: anything that's taking possible, right. Yeah, Like there are a

2667
02:22:43,320 --> 02:22:46,040
Speaker 1: lot of people probably listening because they saw that vision

2668
02:22:47,240 --> 02:22:48,680
Speaker 1: and it changed who they want to be and how

2669
02:22:48,720 --> 02:22:50,039
Speaker 1: they want the world to be. And I think that's

2670
02:22:50,080 --> 02:22:53,480
Speaker 1: really good and uh for me at least, I think

2671
02:22:53,680 --> 02:22:56,360
Speaker 1: once people around in the streets, which people weren't able

2672
02:22:56,400 --> 02:22:58,760
Speaker 1: to do in time in Brazil, like, they will tend

2673
02:22:58,840 --> 02:23:02,560
Speaker 1: to find that salute shann Outside of institutions, that the

2674
02:23:02,840 --> 02:23:06,440
Speaker 1: response has been almost entirely institutional, at least in here

2675
02:23:06,680 --> 02:23:10,080
Speaker 1: in this country to a fascist coup because people didn't

2676
02:23:10,200 --> 02:23:12,200
Speaker 1: and people were tired from your industry and they've all

2677
02:23:12,240 --> 02:23:14,879
Speaker 1: been fucking arrested and half of them have been shot.

2678
02:23:15,320 --> 02:23:17,080
Speaker 1: And but part of the problem also is just like

2679
02:23:17,520 --> 02:23:19,080
Speaker 1: there's there's like the US just has a sort of

2680
02:23:19,120 --> 02:23:21,400
Speaker 1: geographical problem then, and Brazil has this to to some extent,

2681
02:23:21,480 --> 02:23:24,200
Speaker 1: which is that like, yeah, this is not like Belgium

2682
02:23:24,400 --> 02:23:27,520
Speaker 1: you can very quickly get people to the capital, like

2683
02:23:27,879 --> 02:23:30,680
Speaker 1: you can't. You can't actually like it is actually genuinely

2684
02:23:30,800 --> 02:23:33,040
Speaker 1: very hard to get a bunch of people to a

2685
02:23:33,160 --> 02:23:37,080
Speaker 1: place quickly here, right, which you know is a thing

2686
02:23:37,120 --> 02:23:39,320
Speaker 1: where we're lucky that yeah, like that the capital kind

2687
02:23:39,320 --> 02:23:43,240
Speaker 1: of like holding the capital, doesn't you know, it's it's

2688
02:23:43,240 --> 02:23:44,760
Speaker 1: it's not a thing that actually allows you to sort

2689
02:23:44,800 --> 02:23:48,120
Speaker 1: of take power. But it's also a real sort of

2690
02:23:48,440 --> 02:23:50,960
Speaker 1: concern about politics in the US because it can't work

2691
02:23:51,040 --> 02:23:52,440
Speaker 1: the same way it works in a lot of places

2692
02:23:52,480 --> 02:23:57,560
Speaker 1: that are smaller. Yeah yeah, yeah, like Bolivia for example,

2693
02:23:58,120 --> 02:24:00,880
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, or even Venet's wait, right, like so much

2694
02:24:00,959 --> 02:24:03,720
Speaker 1: of the institution almost everything is in Caracas, even though

2695
02:24:03,720 --> 02:24:06,760
Speaker 1: it's a big country. Yeah, that's that's that's pretty much

2696
02:24:06,760 --> 02:24:09,440
Speaker 1: all I got. Um, well, we'll see, we'll see if

2697
02:24:09,560 --> 02:24:14,200
Speaker 1: Bolstaro when when he gets out of the hospital, if

2698
02:24:14,200 --> 02:24:17,840
Speaker 1: he gets out of the hospital, he's returned to his

2699
02:24:18,040 --> 02:24:21,959
Speaker 1: social home. Yeah, yeah, it's it's always good to see

2700
02:24:22,000 --> 02:24:24,880
Speaker 1: people with with takes on situation in Brazil who also

2701
02:24:24,920 --> 02:24:27,680
Speaker 1: think the capital is Rio. That's always a fun thing

2702
02:24:27,760 --> 02:24:31,880
Speaker 1: that I can see on Twitter Dot. It's okay not

2703
02:24:32,080 --> 02:24:35,200
Speaker 1: to post you know, this is my okay, I have

2704
02:24:37,040 --> 02:24:39,440
Speaker 1: what what are my rules of thumb about talking about

2705
02:24:39,440 --> 02:24:42,000
Speaker 1: a place is if if you can't name five cities

2706
02:24:42,040 --> 02:24:45,880
Speaker 1: in a country, don't talk about it. Yeah, this is

2707
02:24:45,920 --> 02:24:48,879
Speaker 1: the thing that like so many like people, people people

2708
02:24:48,959 --> 02:24:52,320
Speaker 1: who get paid to write articles about places like just fail.

2709
02:24:54,240 --> 02:24:57,920
Speaker 1: People who get this is like like, frankly, you should

2710
02:24:57,959 --> 02:25:00,200
Speaker 1: be able to like like if if I was doing

2711
02:25:00,280 --> 02:25:02,280
Speaker 1: due diligence, I would I would be learning, I would

2712
02:25:02,280 --> 02:25:05,279
Speaker 1: be actually learning Portuguese right now instead of like relying

2713
02:25:05,360 --> 02:25:08,040
Speaker 1: on my Spanish to sort of like power through it.

2714
02:25:09,800 --> 02:25:12,120
Speaker 1: But you know, like the lowest bar is you should

2715
02:25:12,120 --> 02:25:13,560
Speaker 1: go the capitol and you should be able to name

2716
02:25:13,640 --> 02:25:15,360
Speaker 1: five cities in it. And if you can't do that,

2717
02:25:15,560 --> 02:25:18,760
Speaker 1: like maybe don't post. Yeah, it's fine not to post.

2718
02:25:18,840 --> 02:25:22,520
Speaker 1: In fact, when dealing with coups, maybe consider options that

2719
02:25:22,600 --> 02:25:26,680
Speaker 1: are not posting. Yeah, and and yeah, go go out

2720
02:25:26,800 --> 02:25:30,720
Speaker 1: and stop them. M hmm, make friends. Yeah. So this

2721
02:25:30,879 --> 02:25:32,400
Speaker 1: this is when it could happen. Here. You can find

2722
02:25:32,520 --> 02:25:51,640
Speaker 1: us in the places on social media. We live in

2723
02:25:51,720 --> 02:25:55,280
Speaker 1: a period of increasing class conflict. During the Trump years,

2724
02:25:55,520 --> 02:26:01,360
Speaker 1: strike action reached the seventeen year high. Strike surged, increasing

2725
02:26:01,360 --> 02:26:06,480
Speaker 1: almost over as workers fought back against rising inflation and

2726
02:26:06,600 --> 02:26:10,400
Speaker 1: the cost of living. Fights over unionization hit sectors previously

2727
02:26:10,480 --> 02:26:14,200
Speaker 1: thought to be un organizable, as workers declared victory across

2728
02:26:14,320 --> 02:26:18,119
Speaker 1: fast food chains, Starbucks, and Amazon. And this increased strike

2729
02:26:18,160 --> 02:26:21,200
Speaker 1: activity is taking place against the rising course of revolt.

2730
02:26:21,879 --> 02:26:25,400
Speaker 1: Tenants are farming unions and launching rent strikes. Riots kick

2731
02:26:25,440 --> 02:26:28,040
Speaker 1: off in the face of police murdering on average over

2732
02:26:28,160 --> 02:26:31,160
Speaker 1: three people per day, and kids walk out of school

2733
02:26:31,400 --> 02:26:34,920
Speaker 1: demanding everything from access to ppe to an end too

2734
02:26:34,959 --> 02:26:37,920
Speaker 1: attacks on queer and trans youth. It's not just that

2735
02:26:38,040 --> 02:26:41,000
Speaker 1: strikes are increasing, but the logic of the strike to

2736
02:26:41,120 --> 02:26:44,440
Speaker 1: strike a blow against one's class enemies, to enact a

2737
02:26:44,600 --> 02:26:50,040
Speaker 1: cost and generalized collective refusal is spreading. As two comes

2738
02:26:50,120 --> 02:26:53,920
Speaker 1: to a close. The largest strike by education workers across

2739
02:26:54,000 --> 02:26:58,080
Speaker 1: the University of California system has seen barricades, occupied buildings,

2740
02:26:58,600 --> 02:27:01,920
Speaker 1: and strikers even liberal eating dining halls to feed themselves.

2741
02:27:02,640 --> 02:27:04,680
Speaker 1: Members of the United Mine Workers have been on the

2742
02:27:04,720 --> 02:27:07,760
Speaker 1: picket lines for almost two years. In this holiday season,

2743
02:27:07,920 --> 02:27:11,440
Speaker 1: over one thousand rail workers stunned the brink of crippling

2744
02:27:11,480 --> 02:27:14,800
Speaker 1: the US economy and an effort to win sickly as

2745
02:27:14,879 --> 02:27:17,760
Speaker 1: the government rushed to enforce a contract and break the strike.

2746
02:27:18,640 --> 02:27:21,080
Speaker 1: With so many people on the verge of striking, it's

2747
02:27:21,120 --> 02:27:23,480
Speaker 1: easy to wonder what would happen if a strike across

2748
02:27:23,600 --> 02:27:27,760
Speaker 1: industries could be organized, a general strike. It's this very

2749
02:27:27,800 --> 02:27:31,840
Speaker 1: subject that we tackle in today's show. And speaking of strikes,

2750
02:27:32,360 --> 02:27:34,640
Speaker 1: the producers of it could happen here have walked off

2751
02:27:34,680 --> 02:27:38,600
Speaker 1: the job and it's going down. It's taken over. Excited

2752
02:27:38,680 --> 02:27:42,200
Speaker 1: to be here, that's right. I g D will be

2753
02:27:42,320 --> 02:27:45,199
Speaker 1: occupying the means of this production for five shows throughout

2754
02:27:45,200 --> 02:27:47,320
Speaker 1: the month of January as we address some of the

2755
02:27:47,360 --> 02:27:50,320
Speaker 1: major issues of today while looking back at recent examples

2756
02:27:50,360 --> 02:27:53,760
Speaker 1: in history about how the exploiting excluded have attempted to

2757
02:27:53,840 --> 02:27:57,600
Speaker 1: meet the conditions which miserate our lives head on. Each episode,

2758
02:27:57,640 --> 02:28:00,080
Speaker 1: of course is going to have special guests and he

2759
02:28:00,240 --> 02:28:03,440
Speaker 1: die from us. Launching the summer of two thousands fifteen,

2760
02:28:04,000 --> 02:28:07,480
Speaker 1: it's going down as a media platform, radio show, and podcast.

2761
02:28:07,920 --> 02:28:09,960
Speaker 1: It covers a ton of a social movements from an

2762
02:28:09,959 --> 02:28:13,880
Speaker 1: anarchist perspective. As a group, we represent folks from across

2763
02:28:13,920 --> 02:28:17,600
Speaker 1: the US. Tom and myself have been involved in covering

2764
02:28:17,760 --> 02:28:21,880
Speaker 1: and participating in social struggles for over twenty years. Sophie's

2765
02:28:21,920 --> 02:28:25,720
Speaker 1: a long time educator and community organizer across multiple continents.

2766
02:28:25,959 --> 02:28:29,240
Speaker 1: Marcella is a writer and comedian. This is Mike Andrews.

2767
02:28:29,400 --> 02:28:34,320
Speaker 1: Happy to be here. I'm Sophie Marcella and I'm Tom. Yeah,

2768
02:28:34,400 --> 02:28:37,200
Speaker 1: this is really cool. Thanks to all that it could

2769
02:28:37,200 --> 02:28:39,400
Speaker 1: happen here people. It's awesome. Yeah, I'm excited to be

2770
02:28:39,560 --> 02:28:42,760
Speaker 1: here and talk about strikes. It's gonna be a fun time. Yeah,

2771
02:28:42,800 --> 02:28:45,840
Speaker 1: I'm excited about today's topic very much. So, just to

2772
02:28:45,879 --> 02:28:48,360
Speaker 1: start off, it's interesting, it seems like every few weeks

2773
02:28:48,640 --> 02:28:51,320
Speaker 1: on social media, every couple of months, whenever there's like

2774
02:28:51,360 --> 02:28:53,600
Speaker 1: a big issue that comes up or something's going on

2775
02:28:54,000 --> 02:28:57,320
Speaker 1: in the news cycle, the idea of a general strike

2776
02:28:57,400 --> 02:28:59,080
Speaker 1: will trend or sort of kind of get out in

2777
02:28:59,080 --> 02:29:02,160
Speaker 1: the ether as this zeit guys that becomes really popular

2778
02:29:02,360 --> 02:29:04,560
Speaker 1: and you know, we live in this time and increasing

2779
02:29:04,720 --> 02:29:08,320
Speaker 1: protests and strikes and riots. But it also seems like

2780
02:29:08,840 --> 02:29:12,560
Speaker 1: the possibility of a general strike seems like very far off,

2781
02:29:13,120 --> 02:29:15,760
Speaker 1: or the idea of it even being this like trending

2782
02:29:15,879 --> 02:29:18,760
Speaker 1: thing on social media is sort of like passe are silly.

2783
02:29:18,959 --> 02:29:23,080
Speaker 1: And also it happens so often and we don't see

2784
02:29:23,120 --> 02:29:26,120
Speaker 1: it materialized, it can be easy to sort of write

2785
02:29:26,160 --> 02:29:28,240
Speaker 1: it off. Or on the other hand, a lot of

2786
02:29:28,320 --> 02:29:30,879
Speaker 1: people will say, well, if you want that to happen

2787
02:29:30,959 --> 02:29:34,039
Speaker 1: instead of just like wishing it to be on social media,

2788
02:29:34,600 --> 02:29:38,320
Speaker 1: you should just join a union and get involved that way.

2789
02:29:38,920 --> 02:29:43,359
Speaker 1: It seems that this drive to constantly declared general strikes,

2790
02:29:43,520 --> 02:29:47,440
Speaker 1: though ambitious, sometimes to the point of, you know, people

2791
02:29:47,520 --> 02:29:49,400
Speaker 1: being able to sort of make fun of it, the

2792
02:29:49,480 --> 02:29:52,600
Speaker 1: reality is is that the repeated sort of call for

2793
02:29:52,720 --> 02:29:55,880
Speaker 1: that has normalized that idea and what we're seeing a

2794
02:29:56,000 --> 02:29:58,680
Speaker 1: lot in specifically in the US, but we're seeing a

2795
02:29:58,760 --> 02:30:02,000
Speaker 1: lot of people at the workplaces recognized that the business

2796
02:30:02,080 --> 02:30:05,320
Speaker 1: unions have failed. Right, It's how we got here. I

2797
02:30:05,400 --> 02:30:07,160
Speaker 1: live in the rest Belt I live in the midst

2798
02:30:07,240 --> 02:30:09,240
Speaker 1: of the failure of business unions every single day in

2799
02:30:09,280 --> 02:30:11,760
Speaker 1: my life, and that they've also come to understand something

2800
02:30:11,920 --> 02:30:14,720
Speaker 1: that the autonomous in Italy we're talking about the seventies,

2801
02:30:14,800 --> 02:30:17,920
Speaker 1: which is that workers already control the means of production.

2802
02:30:18,000 --> 02:30:20,640
Speaker 1: They're already there. They already run the coffee shop, run

2803
02:30:20,680 --> 02:30:23,000
Speaker 1: the restaurant, run the warehouse, run the tech company, whatever.

2804
02:30:23,480 --> 02:30:26,400
Speaker 1: And if they just stop, nobody makes any money. And

2805
02:30:26,520 --> 02:30:28,480
Speaker 1: you don't need a union in a formal sense to

2806
02:30:28,560 --> 02:30:30,959
Speaker 1: do that. And so I think a lot of workers

2807
02:30:31,080 --> 02:30:34,920
Speaker 1: that traditionally fell outside of unions are starting to understand

2808
02:30:34,959 --> 02:30:37,400
Speaker 1: their powers workers outside of that structure, and that is

2809
02:30:37,480 --> 02:30:40,400
Speaker 1: incredibly important for us going forward. Yeah, I mean, I

2810
02:30:40,480 --> 02:30:42,920
Speaker 1: think you're totally right. I mean, I don't think quiet

2811
02:30:43,000 --> 02:30:45,280
Speaker 1: quitting came out of nowhere. And I know it's just

2812
02:30:45,320 --> 02:30:47,560
Speaker 1: like an idea. I like loud quitting more like I

2813
02:30:47,640 --> 02:30:50,720
Speaker 1: prefer that. But um, I do think this culture, we're

2814
02:30:50,760 --> 02:30:52,800
Speaker 1: creating a culture where it is okay to be anti work.

2815
02:30:52,879 --> 02:30:54,120
Speaker 1: It is okay for you to say I hate my

2816
02:30:54,200 --> 02:30:56,160
Speaker 1: job and I actually don't do anything and I steal

2817
02:30:56,240 --> 02:30:58,280
Speaker 1: from my boss, and we should normalize that, right, Like

2818
02:30:58,520 --> 02:31:00,560
Speaker 1: I don't think striking is just this whole thing. And

2819
02:31:00,640 --> 02:31:02,280
Speaker 1: I do want to say this before I move into that.

2820
02:31:02,520 --> 02:31:05,240
Speaker 1: Every single time I posted TikTok video, somebody's always like

2821
02:31:05,320 --> 02:31:09,760
Speaker 1: general strike July. So it's like, yeah, it's definitely on

2822
02:31:10,080 --> 02:31:12,600
Speaker 1: the internet a lot. But I do think even people

2823
02:31:12,680 --> 02:31:14,720
Speaker 1: saying that I'm not doing it has an impact because

2824
02:31:14,720 --> 02:31:17,320
Speaker 1: it's like, what is that? Martin Soustri said, you have

2825
02:31:17,440 --> 02:31:19,680
Speaker 1: to fight the culture, and the culture that we live

2826
02:31:19,720 --> 02:31:21,520
Speaker 1: in now is a culture that's like obsessed with work

2827
02:31:21,560 --> 02:31:24,480
Speaker 1: for works sake, and so like maybe part of it

2828
02:31:24,640 --> 02:31:26,920
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, workers already owns the means of production. Yeah,

2829
02:31:26,920 --> 02:31:28,760
Speaker 1: I just don't work as hard on your job, you know,

2830
02:31:28,959 --> 02:31:31,160
Speaker 1: and if your work steal from your boss, it doesn't

2831
02:31:31,320 --> 02:31:34,200
Speaker 1: have to be like this organizational thing. Because one thing

2832
02:31:34,320 --> 02:31:35,840
Speaker 1: is that, like you have to realize is that sometimes

2833
02:31:35,920 --> 02:31:38,879
Speaker 1: union work unions work with management. So it's like even

2834
02:31:38,920 --> 02:31:40,960
Speaker 1: if you're like, yeah, like I want to wait for

2835
02:31:41,000 --> 02:31:42,520
Speaker 1: my union, it's like what if your union is like

2836
02:31:42,560 --> 02:31:44,960
Speaker 1: the fertile a union that will go behind your back

2837
02:31:45,120 --> 02:31:47,480
Speaker 1: and like make decisions. Um. I guess all this to

2838
02:31:47,560 --> 02:31:51,600
Speaker 1: say is that I think changing the culture is important. Um.

2839
02:31:51,720 --> 02:31:54,680
Speaker 1: And I think that's happening now. I think I, like

2840
02:31:54,760 --> 02:31:56,280
Speaker 1: you said at the end of that, just like how

2841
02:31:57,240 --> 02:31:58,560
Speaker 1: something that I think we'll get into a lot more

2842
02:31:58,600 --> 02:32:01,039
Speaker 1: in this episode is looking at how this life claims

2843
02:32:01,080 --> 02:32:03,760
Speaker 1: to join the union being the practical thing to do

2844
02:32:03,959 --> 02:32:06,480
Speaker 1: towards a general strike just isn't accurate at all. And

2845
02:32:06,560 --> 02:32:08,080
Speaker 1: that when you look back in history at kind of

2846
02:32:08,120 --> 02:32:11,760
Speaker 1: any of the exciting moments of UM general strikes are

2847
02:32:11,840 --> 02:32:14,800
Speaker 1: uprising and stuff, it doesn't come from those official channels UM.

2848
02:32:14,879 --> 02:32:16,920
Speaker 1: And so I'm excited to get into that more. And

2849
02:32:17,040 --> 02:32:18,480
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, I like with saying like this thing

2850
02:32:18,520 --> 02:32:20,400
Speaker 1: where it's just become this thing that people will like

2851
02:32:20,600 --> 02:32:23,400
Speaker 1: say and talk about even if there's not that cultural

2852
02:32:23,480 --> 02:32:25,720
Speaker 1: memory of like exactly what a general strike means or

2853
02:32:25,800 --> 02:32:28,560
Speaker 1: what what what's going to happen, there's this idea of

2854
02:32:28,720 --> 02:32:32,200
Speaker 1: like refusal and of solidarity that is captured just in

2855
02:32:32,280 --> 02:32:34,000
Speaker 1: the world and just in saying it. But I think

2856
02:32:34,040 --> 02:32:37,800
Speaker 1: it's really like sewing that energy up and speaking of

2857
02:32:37,879 --> 02:32:41,720
Speaker 1: cultural memory. Fact, you're dynamite in your pitchforks because it's

2858
02:32:41,800 --> 02:32:45,560
Speaker 1: time for a trip down memory lane. In the early

2859
02:32:46,200 --> 02:32:48,720
Speaker 1: dred of the United States Group site the Industrial Workers

2860
02:32:48,760 --> 02:32:51,560
Speaker 1: of the world of the IWW, which advocated for the

2861
02:32:51,600 --> 02:32:55,520
Speaker 1: abortion of the wage system and capitalism, rejected racist exclusions

2862
02:32:55,520 --> 02:32:58,000
Speaker 1: of non white workers in the labor movement, and even

2863
02:32:58,040 --> 02:33:01,640
Speaker 1: engage in shootouts with the KKK popularized the idea of

2864
02:33:01,720 --> 02:33:04,600
Speaker 1: the general strike in the United States on a large scale,

2865
02:33:04,879 --> 02:33:07,680
Speaker 1: but the idea itself and its application in US history

2866
02:33:08,120 --> 02:33:10,640
Speaker 1: is much older. Throughout the late eighteen hundreds and early

2867
02:33:10,760 --> 02:33:14,200
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds, anarchists, socialists, and everyday members of the working

2868
02:33:14,240 --> 02:33:18,000
Speaker 1: class all promoted and carried out multiple general strikes as

2869
02:33:18,040 --> 02:33:21,040
Speaker 1: a means to win political and economic concessions. For some,

2870
02:33:21,200 --> 02:33:24,120
Speaker 1: the general strike was also a launchpad for revolution, in

2871
02:33:24,160 --> 02:33:27,000
Speaker 1: which workers could, in theory, seize the means of existence

2872
02:33:27,040 --> 02:33:29,119
Speaker 1: out of the hands of the capital's class and run

2873
02:33:29,200 --> 02:33:32,000
Speaker 1: society on its own terms. And it's this battle that

2874
02:33:32,120 --> 02:33:35,720
Speaker 1: thrust millions of everyday working class people directly into conflict

2875
02:33:35,760 --> 02:33:39,080
Speaker 1: with the American state and its military. In US history,

2876
02:33:39,160 --> 02:33:41,680
Speaker 1: the first large scale example of a general strike occurred

2877
02:33:41,680 --> 02:33:44,400
Speaker 1: in the midst of the American Civil War and W. E. B.

2878
02:33:44,600 --> 02:33:48,240
Speaker 1: Dwo Boys famous book Black Reconstruction, he explains how it

2879
02:33:48,320 --> 02:33:51,040
Speaker 1: was the general strike of the enslaved black proletariat that

2880
02:33:51,120 --> 02:33:55,039
Speaker 1: brought down the plantation system, not President Lincoln. Er Union bullets.

2881
02:33:55,360 --> 02:33:58,199
Speaker 1: The Boys argues that just like the black lead insurrections

2882
02:33:58,240 --> 02:34:00,600
Speaker 1: of today and ferguson him in the Apple, this strike

2883
02:34:00,680 --> 02:34:03,880
Speaker 1: took bourgeois white society by total surprise, he writes it

2884
02:34:03,959 --> 02:34:06,600
Speaker 1: in the South newspapers, and ied the very idea that

2885
02:34:06,680 --> 02:34:09,360
Speaker 1: slaves could ever free themselves, and even claim that they

2886
02:34:09,640 --> 02:34:12,280
Speaker 1: quote did not want to be free, he writes, of

2887
02:34:12,360 --> 02:34:15,040
Speaker 1: white society in the North. The North shrank at the

2888
02:34:15,160 --> 02:34:19,039
Speaker 1: very thought of encouraging servile insurrection against the whites. Above all,

2889
02:34:19,120 --> 02:34:22,080
Speaker 1: it did not propose to interfere with property. Black people

2890
02:34:22,120 --> 02:34:25,240
Speaker 1: on the whole were considered cowards and inferior beings whose

2891
02:34:25,320 --> 02:34:29,000
Speaker 1: very presence in America was unfortunate. Only John Brown knew

2892
02:34:29,000 --> 02:34:32,120
Speaker 1: that revolt would come, and he was dead. So the

2893
02:34:32,240 --> 02:34:34,680
Speaker 1: Boys really painted this picture of this mass care and

2894
02:34:34,800 --> 02:34:37,879
Speaker 1: society in which slavery is seen as very sad. More

2895
02:34:38,080 --> 02:34:41,240
Speaker 1: terrifying is the idea of mass black insurrection, which of

2896
02:34:41,320 --> 02:34:44,920
Speaker 1: course mirrors today's situation. I mean, that's what the suburbs are.

2897
02:34:48,440 --> 02:34:51,360
Speaker 1: I mean right like that suburbs aren't. It's like for

2898
02:34:51,520 --> 02:34:53,560
Speaker 1: you to like pretend like all the things that you

2899
02:34:53,680 --> 02:34:56,040
Speaker 1: have are not built on blood. It's for you to

2900
02:34:56,200 --> 02:34:59,879
Speaker 1: like segment yourself away from the people in society than

2901
02:35:00,040 --> 02:35:02,360
Speaker 1: give you everything you have, yet you've denied them everything.

2902
02:35:02,560 --> 02:35:04,640
Speaker 1: See you going you a little home and like drinking

2903
02:35:04,640 --> 02:35:06,760
Speaker 1: a little tea and like watch your little movies and

2904
02:35:06,879 --> 02:35:08,680
Speaker 1: just like ignore the fact that you're an asphalt, you

2905
02:35:08,720 --> 02:35:10,760
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like just like and even not

2906
02:35:10,879 --> 02:35:12,840
Speaker 1: even more more than an apple. I was going as

2907
02:35:12,840 --> 02:35:14,240
Speaker 1: far as saying, I used to say that they're not

2908
02:35:14,320 --> 02:35:15,960
Speaker 1: good or bad people, but like you're acting like a

2909
02:35:16,040 --> 02:35:18,760
Speaker 1: bad person, Like you don't care about other people because

2910
02:35:18,959 --> 02:35:21,120
Speaker 1: you've been tricked to think that, like you're getting a

2911
02:35:21,200 --> 02:35:23,760
Speaker 1: good deal. And it's an interesting point that the Boys

2912
02:35:23,879 --> 02:35:26,520
Speaker 1: makes about just like. It was only kind of the

2913
02:35:26,760 --> 02:35:29,760
Speaker 1: radical wing of the abolishnist movement that was talking about

2914
02:35:29,800 --> 02:35:32,600
Speaker 1: open revolt. There's this early anarchist A lot of people

2915
02:35:33,120 --> 02:35:36,480
Speaker 1: don't reference a lot, but wis under Spooner. He conspired

2916
02:35:36,520 --> 02:35:39,039
Speaker 1: with John Brown in various plots, and he later became

2917
02:35:39,080 --> 02:35:41,880
Speaker 1: a member of the First International and a contributor to

2918
02:35:41,959 --> 02:35:45,400
Speaker 1: early anarchist publications like Liberty. He produced this really early

2919
02:35:45,520 --> 02:35:48,280
Speaker 1: text which is just fantastic. It's called a Plan for

2920
02:35:48,360 --> 02:35:51,680
Speaker 1: the Abolish of Slavery, published in eighteen fifty eight. It's

2921
02:35:51,720 --> 02:35:53,800
Speaker 1: a couple of years before the Civil War. He writes,

2922
02:35:53,920 --> 02:35:56,640
Speaker 1: Our plan then is to make our war openly or

2923
02:35:56,720 --> 02:36:00,959
Speaker 1: secretly a circumstances may dictate upon the property of the slaveholders.

2924
02:36:01,240 --> 02:36:05,560
Speaker 1: Burn the master's buildings, kill their cattle and horses, conceal

2925
02:36:05,800 --> 02:36:09,720
Speaker 1: or destroy farming utensils, abandoned labor in seed time and harvest,

2926
02:36:09,840 --> 02:36:14,480
Speaker 1: and let the crops perish. Make slavery unprofitable. I love

2927
02:36:14,520 --> 02:36:17,400
Speaker 1: the line conceal or destroyed that you can destroy them,

2928
02:36:17,440 --> 02:36:19,560
Speaker 1: you can also hide them. This is like a parallel

2929
02:36:19,600 --> 02:36:21,200
Speaker 1: that we can drawn out to like if you want

2930
02:36:21,200 --> 02:36:24,000
Speaker 1: to like have solidarity with like like other wage slaves,

2931
02:36:24,160 --> 02:36:26,720
Speaker 1: is that like do accommodate them and help them steal

2932
02:36:26,879 --> 02:36:30,720
Speaker 1: from their I mean from their jobs. I mean it's

2933
02:36:30,800 --> 02:36:33,280
Speaker 1: like these things happened in the past, but these are

2934
02:36:33,360 --> 02:36:35,760
Speaker 1: tactics that we can still use in the present. There's

2935
02:36:35,840 --> 02:36:39,040
Speaker 1: echoes of this quote later with Lucy Parsons, right, and

2936
02:36:39,080 --> 02:36:41,680
Speaker 1: you see this during the structure in Our Work at Chicago,

2937
02:36:41,800 --> 02:36:44,360
Speaker 1: where she gives a speech where she's talking about grabbing

2938
02:36:44,400 --> 02:36:46,680
Speaker 1: knives and going to the doors of the rich as

2939
02:36:46,720 --> 02:36:48,920
Speaker 1: a way to make it very very very clear that

2940
02:36:49,000 --> 02:36:50,680
Speaker 1: they weren't going to be able to live off the

2941
02:36:50,720 --> 02:36:53,680
Speaker 1: backs of the working class anymore. Right, um, And it's

2942
02:36:53,760 --> 02:36:57,840
Speaker 1: the sort of idea of direct action, which now, I mean,

2943
02:36:57,920 --> 02:37:00,400
Speaker 1: if we think about, now, what are politicians doing. They're

2944
02:37:00,400 --> 02:37:02,200
Speaker 1: trying to pass laws to make it a felony to

2945
02:37:02,240 --> 02:37:05,560
Speaker 1: have home demonstrations, right to like do exactly these kinds

2946
02:37:05,600 --> 02:37:08,080
Speaker 1: of things, but in much more passive ways. So if

2947
02:37:08,120 --> 02:37:09,680
Speaker 1: we can really think back, I mean, this is a

2948
02:37:09,760 --> 02:37:12,040
Speaker 1: tried and true technique that people used in the United

2949
02:37:12,080 --> 02:37:14,000
Speaker 1: States for a very very long time, and we can

2950
02:37:14,080 --> 02:37:17,200
Speaker 1: see still how much that terrifies people with power. There's

2951
02:37:17,200 --> 02:37:19,240
Speaker 1: another awesome quote from Spooner I just want to read

2952
02:37:19,280 --> 02:37:21,240
Speaker 1: as well, and this I find this one really interesting

2953
02:37:21,280 --> 02:37:24,120
Speaker 1: because he's speaking actually to white people in the South,

2954
02:37:24,280 --> 02:37:26,960
Speaker 1: especially people that work in the slave patrols. He says,

2955
02:37:27,080 --> 02:37:30,400
Speaker 1: white rascals of the South, willing tools of the slaveholders.

2956
02:37:30,680 --> 02:37:33,080
Speaker 1: You who drive slaves to do their labor, hunt them

2957
02:37:33,120 --> 02:37:37,400
Speaker 1: with dogs, and flogged them for pay without asking any questions.

2958
02:37:37,760 --> 02:37:40,280
Speaker 1: You are the main pillars of the slave system. That

2959
02:37:40,400 --> 02:37:43,960
Speaker 1: is the most eloquent way to say exactly that's exactly

2960
02:37:44,000 --> 02:37:48,720
Speaker 1: what I was thinking. I think it's interesting to point out,

2961
02:37:48,959 --> 02:37:51,920
Speaker 1: as do Boys Rights, and as Frederick Douglas said of

2962
02:37:51,959 --> 02:37:55,160
Speaker 1: the Civil War, it was started quote in the interests

2963
02:37:55,200 --> 02:37:58,360
Speaker 1: of slavery on both sides. The South was fighting to

2964
02:37:58,480 --> 02:38:01,680
Speaker 1: take slavery out of the and the North was fighting

2965
02:38:01,800 --> 02:38:05,040
Speaker 1: to keep it in. And the mass black exodus did

2966
02:38:05,120 --> 02:38:07,240
Speaker 1: not kick off at the start of the war. He

2967
02:38:07,360 --> 02:38:10,040
Speaker 1: makes the really important point that Union leaders made it

2968
02:38:10,120 --> 02:38:13,080
Speaker 1: clear that they did not want to disrupt the plantation system.

2969
02:38:13,600 --> 02:38:17,000
Speaker 1: At times, generals even offered to put down slave rebellions,

2970
02:38:17,160 --> 02:38:20,200
Speaker 1: and he says that they even forbade at least in

2971
02:38:20,280 --> 02:38:24,520
Speaker 1: some instances, union soldiers from singing the song John Brown's Body.

2972
02:38:24,840 --> 02:38:27,080
Speaker 1: But as the North pushed into the South, the flood

2973
02:38:27,160 --> 02:38:30,039
Speaker 1: of former slaves escaping into Union hands grew and grew.

2974
02:38:30,320 --> 02:38:33,760
Speaker 1: By eighteen sixty two is the Boys Rights. This was

2975
02:38:33,840 --> 02:38:36,800
Speaker 1: the beginning of the swarming of increasing numbers no longer

2976
02:38:36,959 --> 02:38:40,240
Speaker 1: to work on Confederate plantations, a movement that became a

2977
02:38:40,320 --> 02:38:43,520
Speaker 1: general strike against the slave system. This was not merely

2978
02:38:43,600 --> 02:38:45,920
Speaker 1: the desire to stop work. It was a strike on

2979
02:38:46,040 --> 02:38:48,880
Speaker 1: a wide basis against the conditions of work. It was

2980
02:38:48,959 --> 02:38:52,480
Speaker 1: a general strike that involved directly in the end, perhaps

2981
02:38:52,600 --> 02:38:55,439
Speaker 1: half a million people. They wanted to stop the economy

2982
02:38:55,520 --> 02:38:58,400
Speaker 1: of the plantation system, and to do that they left

2983
02:38:58,440 --> 02:39:02,080
Speaker 1: the plantations. It's interest into and the Boys makes this point.

2984
02:39:02,480 --> 02:39:05,480
Speaker 1: The general strike also encouraged and took place alongside many

2985
02:39:05,560 --> 02:39:08,959
Speaker 1: poor whites deserting the Confederate army. One thing that's interesting

2986
02:39:09,040 --> 02:39:11,920
Speaker 1: about the Confederate side of the Civil War. You could

2987
02:39:11,920 --> 02:39:14,440
Speaker 1: get out of fighting if you own slaves, and a

2988
02:39:14,560 --> 02:39:17,680
Speaker 1: lot of poor whites deserted the Confederate army, which further

2989
02:39:17,720 --> 02:39:20,440
Speaker 1: crippled it. As the Boys noted, the poor white not

2990
02:39:20,600 --> 02:39:23,119
Speaker 1: only began to desert and run away, but thousands followed

2991
02:39:23,280 --> 02:39:26,040
Speaker 1: black people into the northern camps. And just some key

2992
02:39:26,120 --> 02:39:29,119
Speaker 1: takeaways to like launch into discussion side of this, It's

2993
02:39:29,240 --> 02:39:33,000
Speaker 1: interesting that the wider society, as the Boys notes, before

2994
02:39:33,080 --> 02:39:36,959
Speaker 1: the Civil War disparaged the possibility of mass collective action.

2995
02:39:37,080 --> 02:39:41,680
Speaker 1: And I think this really mirrors contemporary conspiracy theories and

2996
02:39:41,800 --> 02:39:45,800
Speaker 1: narratives around black rebellion today that happened often either in

2997
02:39:45,840 --> 02:39:48,920
Speaker 1: the midst of the George Flight uprising or afterwards, and

2998
02:39:49,040 --> 02:39:52,840
Speaker 1: also the mass strike and refusal that happened during the

2999
02:39:52,920 --> 02:39:56,840
Speaker 1: Civil War, which disrupted the economy and made things like

3000
02:39:57,040 --> 02:39:59,920
Speaker 1: the slave patrols, the policing of the plantation system and

3001
02:40:00,040 --> 02:40:05,200
Speaker 1: possible that helped bring down the Confederacy obviously, and I

3002
02:40:05,320 --> 02:40:09,080
Speaker 1: think it's important to ask, as our contemporary society remains

3003
02:40:09,120 --> 02:40:13,320
Speaker 1: structured around racial capitalism, what might be done in the

3004
02:40:13,440 --> 02:40:16,240
Speaker 1: current system in terms of mass refusal and desertion that

3005
02:40:16,320 --> 02:40:21,000
Speaker 1: would cause a similar effect. The idea of the widest

3006
02:40:21,000 --> 02:40:24,600
Speaker 1: society and disparaging mass collective action is because that the

3007
02:40:24,760 --> 02:40:27,240
Speaker 1: fear is letting us know that we do have mass power,

3008
02:40:27,560 --> 02:40:29,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like it's not a

3009
02:40:29,600 --> 02:40:32,560
Speaker 1: surprise that people always say that Lincoln freed the slaves,

3010
02:40:32,640 --> 02:40:35,120
Speaker 1: and Lincoln literally said, if I have had to end

3011
02:40:35,160 --> 02:40:37,240
Speaker 1: slavery to save the Union, I would have ended slavery.

3012
02:40:37,280 --> 02:40:39,040
Speaker 1: And if I have to keep slavery to save the Union,

3013
02:40:39,040 --> 02:40:41,000
Speaker 1: I would have kept a slavery, you know what I mean.

3014
02:40:41,280 --> 02:40:43,200
Speaker 1: So just like this whole idea of like letting black

3015
02:40:43,240 --> 02:40:45,760
Speaker 1: people know you can't do ship, don't even bother is

3016
02:40:45,800 --> 02:40:49,160
Speaker 1: because they know that we can't do ship, and we

3017
02:40:49,280 --> 02:40:52,640
Speaker 1: are doing ship because black people are always rebelling. Um

3018
02:40:52,720 --> 02:40:54,160
Speaker 1: if you come to flop push you see it in

3019
02:40:54,240 --> 02:40:56,600
Speaker 1: full color. They realize the governments them and give a

3020
02:40:56,640 --> 02:40:59,200
Speaker 1: funk about them, and they've created their own institutions to

3021
02:40:59,240 --> 02:41:02,000
Speaker 1: support them. So um yeah, So it's like this whole

3022
02:41:02,040 --> 02:41:04,440
Speaker 1: idea to let us tell us don't even bother and

3023
02:41:04,720 --> 02:41:08,000
Speaker 1: and and like criminalizing like the informal sector because it's

3024
02:41:08,040 --> 02:41:10,400
Speaker 1: like that's a way for us like gain power outside

3025
02:41:10,440 --> 02:41:13,320
Speaker 1: of like the formal sector, you know what I mean,

3026
02:41:13,440 --> 02:41:15,160
Speaker 1: and things like that. So I just think it's like

3027
02:41:15,959 --> 02:41:17,960
Speaker 1: it's like when they tell us don't bother, trying to

3028
02:41:18,040 --> 02:41:20,080
Speaker 1: fight back, like everybody has to suffer, Like that's what

3029
02:41:20,120 --> 02:41:22,320
Speaker 1: they always say. Everybody suffered, and we all just suffer.

3030
02:41:22,600 --> 02:41:24,800
Speaker 1: And it's like, no, we don't want to suffering. We're

3031
02:41:24,800 --> 02:41:27,760
Speaker 1: actually doing things to ease our suffering. And um, I

3032
02:41:27,840 --> 02:41:30,840
Speaker 1: think this is just like all this is to say

3033
02:41:31,000 --> 02:41:34,440
Speaker 1: that people who are out there doing stuff keep doing stuff.

3034
02:41:34,480 --> 02:41:36,080
Speaker 1: And like, if you want to do stuff, do it.

3035
02:41:36,800 --> 02:41:38,680
Speaker 1: You don't have to be brought of reunion. You don't

3036
02:41:38,720 --> 02:41:40,560
Speaker 1: have to put your job and be an activist. By

3037
02:41:40,600 --> 02:41:42,920
Speaker 1: the way, paid activists not really activists. You can do

3038
02:41:43,040 --> 02:41:44,680
Speaker 1: regular ship and your hold that you can do a

3039
02:41:44,800 --> 02:41:47,320
Speaker 1: free store on the corner of your streets. So people

3040
02:41:47,360 --> 02:41:49,720
Speaker 1: can have clothes. It's like you could striking from the

3041
02:41:49,800 --> 02:41:54,160
Speaker 1: economy means like divesting your time and resources, and you

3042
02:41:54,200 --> 02:41:55,480
Speaker 1: can do it. We can all do it in some

3043
02:41:55,600 --> 02:41:57,520
Speaker 1: shape or form well, and I think it becomes a

3044
02:41:57,560 --> 02:42:01,200
Speaker 1: lot more possible today to think about that than it did,

3045
02:42:01,320 --> 02:42:06,760
Speaker 1: say before. Right, So, we had this kind of collapse

3046
02:42:06,959 --> 02:42:09,560
Speaker 1: of the legitimacy of the American political projects sort of

3047
02:42:09,640 --> 02:42:11,800
Speaker 1: with the Iraq War, right, we all kind of saw

3048
02:42:11,920 --> 02:42:14,560
Speaker 1: how badly that can turn out. But what was left

3049
02:42:14,720 --> 02:42:18,360
Speaker 1: in America to uphold the entire edifice was the idea

3050
02:42:18,480 --> 02:42:21,440
Speaker 1: that even though things politically were kind of screwed up,

3051
02:42:21,640 --> 02:42:25,320
Speaker 1: at least there's economic success. And then that failed to right.

3052
02:42:25,480 --> 02:42:29,240
Speaker 1: And so this sort of idea that built up after

3053
02:42:29,600 --> 02:42:33,000
Speaker 1: World War Two, this kind of concept of, you know,

3054
02:42:33,160 --> 02:42:35,560
Speaker 1: the labor corporate compromise, the loyal worker that's going to

3055
02:42:35,640 --> 02:42:38,080
Speaker 1: get provided for for the rest of their life. Not

3056
02:42:38,200 --> 02:42:40,360
Speaker 1: only did our parents generation find out that that was

3057
02:42:40,400 --> 02:42:44,640
Speaker 1: a lie, but younger generations don't really buy it at all.

3058
02:42:45,160 --> 02:42:48,520
Speaker 1: And so what you're really seeing is, I think this

3059
02:42:48,680 --> 02:42:52,480
Speaker 1: kind of breakdown socially of the legitimacy of the idea

3060
02:42:52,520 --> 02:42:55,560
Speaker 1: of the American dream. Because of all of its problematic

3061
02:42:55,640 --> 02:42:59,600
Speaker 1: elements and it's impossibility and its absurdity, and kind of

3062
02:42:59,720 --> 02:43:04,160
Speaker 1: this revival of an idea which existed prior to World

3063
02:43:04,200 --> 02:43:07,640
Speaker 1: War Two, which was an idea of social revolt, right,

3064
02:43:07,760 --> 02:43:10,680
Speaker 1: and it was something we saw manifest during the Great Depression,

3065
02:43:10,760 --> 02:43:12,920
Speaker 1: and it's part of the reason why the New Deal exists.

3066
02:43:13,400 --> 02:43:15,360
Speaker 1: Was a way to put that down, was a way

3067
02:43:15,400 --> 02:43:18,320
Speaker 1: to prevent workers from feeling like the only thing that

3068
02:43:18,400 --> 02:43:20,160
Speaker 1: they had in front of them was to take over

3069
02:43:20,200 --> 02:43:22,320
Speaker 1: their factories and chow up at the doors of the

3070
02:43:22,440 --> 02:43:25,040
Speaker 1: rich and so on, so and so on. Right. But

3071
02:43:25,200 --> 02:43:28,680
Speaker 1: that whole idea of the New Deal, that concept that

3072
02:43:28,720 --> 02:43:30,320
Speaker 1: the government was going to take care of you and

3073
02:43:30,400 --> 02:43:32,640
Speaker 1: the company was going to take care of you, um,

3074
02:43:32,760 --> 02:43:36,120
Speaker 1: collapsed in the nineties seventies, but the idea that it

3075
02:43:36,240 --> 02:43:39,960
Speaker 1: existed still holds on in some sectors of the of

3076
02:43:40,000 --> 02:43:42,000
Speaker 1: America today. I Mean, you see this with the magacrat

3077
02:43:42,000 --> 02:43:45,920
Speaker 1: out really heavily, the idea that like nothing systematically needs

3078
02:43:46,000 --> 02:43:49,800
Speaker 1: to change, really we just need better outcomes, and we

3079
02:43:50,000 --> 02:43:52,200
Speaker 1: just need, you know, in their case, Donald Trump, to

3080
02:43:52,200 --> 02:43:53,880
Speaker 1: pay attention to us and give us the things that

3081
02:43:53,959 --> 02:43:58,600
Speaker 1: we want. But really, outside of that almost comical patriotism. Um,

3082
02:43:58,720 --> 02:44:01,040
Speaker 1: you don't really see a out of adherence to that

3083
02:44:01,240 --> 02:44:04,760
Speaker 1: vision any further. And that makes the idea of mass

3084
02:44:04,800 --> 02:44:07,119
Speaker 1: refusal not only a lot more possible, but something that's

3085
02:44:07,520 --> 02:44:10,080
Speaker 1: actively happening currently. Yeah. And the other parts who I

3086
02:44:10,120 --> 02:44:11,800
Speaker 1: want to bring in is that when the New Deal

3087
02:44:11,920 --> 02:44:14,160
Speaker 1: is caused, it excluded like black people, right, And so

3088
02:44:14,280 --> 02:44:16,840
Speaker 1: that's one way. It's like it's like this constants like

3089
02:44:16,959 --> 02:44:19,560
Speaker 1: how white people are like tricked into like submitting to

3090
02:44:19,640 --> 02:44:21,600
Speaker 1: the system, and it happens so many times, and they

3091
02:44:21,600 --> 02:44:25,200
Speaker 1: still keep saying, trick us again, trick us again. It's like, yeah,

3092
02:44:25,400 --> 02:44:27,840
Speaker 1: they're gonna give you ship so you're not upset, and

3093
02:44:27,879 --> 02:44:29,600
Speaker 1: then they're going to exclude black people because at the

3094
02:44:29,680 --> 02:44:31,520
Speaker 1: end of the day, black people do all the work

3095
02:44:31,640 --> 02:44:33,360
Speaker 1: that we need to survive as a society. Do we

3096
02:44:33,400 --> 02:44:35,920
Speaker 1: not remember who the essential workers were? Like who does

3097
02:44:36,080 --> 02:44:38,760
Speaker 1: the jobs that we need to like live? Like you

3098
02:44:38,840 --> 02:44:41,000
Speaker 1: know what I mean? So yeah, you could like be

3099
02:44:41,120 --> 02:44:42,680
Speaker 1: out of work and get your little thing, But as

3100
02:44:42,680 --> 02:44:45,160
Speaker 1: long as we keep inslating and treating the people who

3101
02:44:45,360 --> 02:44:48,280
Speaker 1: make the society run, it's fine. Um. And now that's

3102
02:44:48,280 --> 02:44:50,400
Speaker 1: happening to white people too, and they're like Oh no,

3103
02:44:51,200 --> 02:44:54,039
Speaker 1: it's not cute, Like it's not fun and quiet quitting,

3104
02:44:54,160 --> 02:44:55,640
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because like they're we are

3105
02:44:55,760 --> 02:44:58,199
Speaker 1: like the way black people have been treated is starting

3106
02:44:58,240 --> 02:45:00,160
Speaker 1: to happen to white people. And it's just like, I, well,

3107
02:45:00,320 --> 02:45:01,720
Speaker 1: this is what I was going to ask you, how

3108
02:45:01,760 --> 02:45:04,520
Speaker 1: do we prevent another New Deal situation from happening where

3109
02:45:04,600 --> 02:45:07,320
Speaker 1: white workers are tricked again? Like because I feel it's coming.

3110
02:45:07,360 --> 02:45:08,879
Speaker 1: I feel like they're going to find a way out

3111
02:45:08,920 --> 02:45:11,120
Speaker 1: of this, and like how do we know what if

3112
02:45:11,120 --> 02:45:13,720
Speaker 1: it's like bullshit? And like how do we call it out?

3113
02:45:13,800 --> 02:45:15,440
Speaker 1: And how do we call it out? That's what Student

3114
02:45:15,520 --> 02:45:18,000
Speaker 1: unforgiveness was, right, I mean, like, if we really think

3115
02:45:18,000 --> 02:45:21,400
Speaker 1: about it, the democratic parties been built recently since the

3116
02:45:21,440 --> 02:45:25,080
Speaker 1: Obama era on this idea of reinstituting elements of the

3117
02:45:25,160 --> 02:45:29,280
Speaker 1: New Deal without threatening the existence of capitalism. Um very

3118
02:45:29,360 --> 02:45:31,600
Speaker 1: intentionally right. We saw that the Affordable Care Act as

3119
02:45:31,760 --> 02:45:34,000
Speaker 1: version of that. Right, So, I mean they are doing

3120
02:45:34,120 --> 02:45:36,440
Speaker 1: this and I think what's fascinating about this And this

3121
02:45:36,600 --> 02:45:39,840
Speaker 1: is something that radicals in the late sixties pointed out

3122
02:45:39,920 --> 02:45:44,120
Speaker 1: often about Lyndon Johnson is they said, you know, liberals

3123
02:45:44,240 --> 02:45:47,240
Speaker 1: voted for Lyndon Johnson, and they put all their hopes

3124
02:45:47,320 --> 02:45:49,400
Speaker 1: in him, so when he failed them, it didn't have

3125
02:45:49,400 --> 02:45:51,560
Speaker 1: anything left to do except hit the streets, right, like

3126
02:45:51,640 --> 02:45:54,200
Speaker 1: there was no other option. And I think what we've

3127
02:45:54,240 --> 02:45:57,080
Speaker 1: really seen since the Obama era is the collapse of

3128
02:45:57,160 --> 02:45:59,800
Speaker 1: the idea that the way that the Democrats do socialists,

3129
02:46:00,000 --> 02:46:02,720
Speaker 1: this is in any way going to solve anything. Um,

3130
02:46:02,800 --> 02:46:05,320
Speaker 1: that's just going to continue to perpetuate the situation of

3131
02:46:05,400 --> 02:46:09,119
Speaker 1: which we need social assistance, right, as opposed to fundamentally

3132
02:46:09,320 --> 02:46:12,000
Speaker 1: ending that, which is, you know, the language that they

3133
02:46:12,040 --> 02:46:13,959
Speaker 1: put forward when they talk about things like justice, which

3134
02:46:14,000 --> 02:46:17,879
Speaker 1: we all know that they don't really have much adherence to. Right.

3135
02:46:18,560 --> 02:46:21,000
Speaker 1: But I think until the until the Democratic Party gains

3136
02:46:21,120 --> 02:46:24,080
Speaker 1: legitimacy again, if they ever do, which hopefully they don't,

3137
02:46:24,160 --> 02:46:26,000
Speaker 1: but if they ever do, yeah, we might be able

3138
02:46:26,040 --> 02:46:29,600
Speaker 1: to see this kind of use of reformism, this counterinsurgency again, right,

3139
02:46:29,640 --> 02:46:31,480
Speaker 1: which is really what the New Deal was. But really

3140
02:46:31,600 --> 02:46:33,480
Speaker 1: until that, I mean we saw in twenty twenty. You know,

3141
02:46:33,600 --> 02:46:36,840
Speaker 1: when the legitimacy of the group of people who often

3142
02:46:36,959 --> 02:46:40,000
Speaker 1: relies on that technique falls apart, you get uprisings in

3143
02:46:40,040 --> 02:46:42,840
Speaker 1: the streets, right, And so we're at kind of a

3144
02:46:42,920 --> 02:46:45,640
Speaker 1: different point I think than than maybe just before the

3145
02:46:45,720 --> 02:46:47,879
Speaker 1: new Deal kind of came into effect something I want

3146
02:46:47,879 --> 02:46:49,440
Speaker 1: to go back to that. I think it's what it was.

3147
02:46:49,560 --> 02:46:52,920
Speaker 1: This is the piece where the quote um it's been

3148
02:46:53,040 --> 02:46:57,680
Speaker 1: is talking about concealing or like in secret or in

3149
02:46:57,800 --> 02:47:00,520
Speaker 1: public or whatever. How there's like a of power in

3150
02:47:00,640 --> 02:47:02,879
Speaker 1: terms of like things like general strikes in that sort

3151
02:47:02,920 --> 02:47:05,920
Speaker 1: of like invisibility or whatever, in the unpredictability in like

3152
02:47:06,200 --> 02:47:10,360
Speaker 1: not going for like building movements based on like visibility

3153
02:47:10,440 --> 02:47:13,000
Speaker 1: or public perception or like the media or whatever, but

3154
02:47:13,120 --> 02:47:15,400
Speaker 1: actually building them in these ways that can't be seen

3155
02:47:15,520 --> 02:47:18,600
Speaker 1: as much and might be concealed. Um. And also this

3156
02:47:18,640 --> 02:47:20,959
Speaker 1: thing where people are underestimated, Like it makes me think

3157
02:47:20,959 --> 02:47:25,199
Speaker 1: about the revolution in Haiti in the late seventeen hundreds,

3158
02:47:25,280 --> 02:47:26,720
Speaker 1: which is you know, a long time ago but still

3159
02:47:26,840 --> 02:47:29,600
Speaker 1: very relevant um. And just thinking about how the kind

3160
02:47:29,640 --> 02:47:32,640
Speaker 1: of like colonizes in Paris, like couldn't believe the reports

3161
02:47:32,680 --> 02:47:35,680
Speaker 1: that were coming out of uprising in Haiti at the

3162
02:47:35,720 --> 02:47:39,000
Speaker 1: time because they were so racist basically that they didn't

3163
02:47:39,000 --> 02:47:41,440
Speaker 1: believe that black people there who were say could rise

3164
02:47:41,600 --> 02:47:46,200
Speaker 1: up and could have that like awareness, gumption or whatever. Um.

3165
02:47:46,400 --> 02:47:48,000
Speaker 1: And that gave them a lot of room. You know,

3166
02:47:48,120 --> 02:47:51,240
Speaker 1: that was like a position of power for them that like, um,

3167
02:47:51,400 --> 02:47:54,440
Speaker 1: they were being underestimated like that much. And I think

3168
02:47:54,480 --> 02:47:57,160
Speaker 1: that's something we see with like even though like the

3169
02:47:57,959 --> 02:48:00,280
Speaker 1: idea that's gone on from that time really of like

3170
02:48:00,440 --> 02:48:06,160
Speaker 1: outside agitator and stuff like in any uprising that we see, Um, yeah,

3171
02:48:06,160 --> 02:48:08,280
Speaker 1: that both part people, is that there's something in that

3172
02:48:08,480 --> 02:48:11,840
Speaker 1: that is also powerful and it gives possibility. Well, speaking

3173
02:48:11,879 --> 02:48:14,400
Speaker 1: of outside agitators, We're going to take a break and

3174
02:48:14,480 --> 02:48:22,000
Speaker 1: hear from some of our sponsors right now. In eighteen

3175
02:48:22,160 --> 02:48:25,840
Speaker 1: sixty five, on paper, the Civil War ended and the

3176
02:48:26,040 --> 02:48:30,440
Speaker 1: Union was saved. A decade later, the North began pulling

3177
02:48:30,480 --> 02:48:33,800
Speaker 1: out of the South, marking the end to reconstruction efforts

3178
02:48:34,280 --> 02:48:36,680
Speaker 1: in the beginning of both jem Crow and a reign

3179
02:48:36,800 --> 02:48:39,840
Speaker 1: of terror and white vigilanism in the form of the

3180
02:48:39,920 --> 02:48:43,640
Speaker 1: Ku Klux Klan. The eighteen seventies was also a period

3181
02:48:43,680 --> 02:48:48,840
Speaker 1: of increasing poverty, declining wages, rising homelessness, economic depression, and

3182
02:48:48,959 --> 02:48:52,160
Speaker 1: exploding class conflict, as the stage was said for the

3183
02:48:52,240 --> 02:48:55,440
Speaker 1: Great Upheaval of eighteen seventy seven, a general strike that

3184
02:48:55,600 --> 02:48:59,360
Speaker 1: rocked multiple states as workers across lines of color, gender,

3185
02:48:59,440 --> 02:49:02,800
Speaker 1: professional an age threatened the very core of the capitalist state.

3186
02:49:03,280 --> 02:49:06,959
Speaker 1: As the decades were on, multiple general strikes followed, as

3187
02:49:07,040 --> 02:49:10,360
Speaker 1: did a heavy handed government response that evolved to police

3188
02:49:10,360 --> 02:49:13,800
Speaker 1: and repress the broader population. Wanting to know more about

3189
02:49:13,840 --> 02:49:16,480
Speaker 1: this history of these general strikes in their importance, we

3190
02:49:16,560 --> 02:49:19,320
Speaker 1: caught up with labor historian and author Robert O. Vetts,

3191
02:49:19,800 --> 02:49:22,480
Speaker 1: author of One Workers Shot Back and We the Elites.

3192
02:49:22,840 --> 02:49:26,040
Speaker 1: Ovetts argues that the often violent general strikes of the

3193
02:49:26,120 --> 02:49:29,600
Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds showcase the ability

3194
02:49:29,640 --> 02:49:32,840
Speaker 1: of working people it's not only confront the state and capitalism,

3195
02:49:33,080 --> 02:49:38,880
Speaker 1: but also organized society on their own terms. Well, general

3196
02:49:38,959 --> 02:49:41,840
Speaker 1: strikes have been a rare occurrence, but a very powerful

3197
02:49:42,800 --> 02:49:47,400
Speaker 1: example of the way that organized workers and communities can

3198
02:49:47,680 --> 02:49:52,840
Speaker 1: transform society and hopefully transcend capitalism. I think we have,

3199
02:49:53,080 --> 02:49:57,240
Speaker 1: in the examples of general strikes in US history, an

3200
02:49:57,320 --> 02:50:01,160
Speaker 1: example of the potential for getting on capitalism, and so

3201
02:50:01,440 --> 02:50:04,200
Speaker 1: that's what makes them really exciting to to study and

3202
02:50:04,280 --> 02:50:07,040
Speaker 1: to write about. At A general strike doesn't just happen,

3203
02:50:07,320 --> 02:50:11,120
Speaker 1: and we don't actually know exactly why general strikes happen,

3204
02:50:11,200 --> 02:50:14,480
Speaker 1: but we know that they don't just happen they're not spontaneous.

3205
02:50:15,040 --> 02:50:18,560
Speaker 1: There has to be a groundwork of organizing and engaged

3206
02:50:19,680 --> 02:50:26,800
Speaker 1: activists and organizers who are working quietly, sometimes for months

3207
02:50:26,920 --> 02:50:31,119
Speaker 1: or years, to to work and organizing their fellow workers

3208
02:50:31,240 --> 02:50:34,800
Speaker 1: and to build community connections to support their strike actions.

3209
02:50:35,400 --> 02:50:38,600
Speaker 1: And there also has to be a good communication of

3210
02:50:38,760 --> 02:50:42,120
Speaker 1: what what the strike is, about what their demands are,

3211
02:50:42,400 --> 02:50:45,879
Speaker 1: and the ability to communicate and spread information about that strike.

3212
02:50:46,080 --> 02:50:50,560
Speaker 1: Probably the two most important general strikes in US history

3213
02:50:51,440 --> 02:50:55,320
Speaker 1: where the one in eighteen seventy seven and the one

3214
02:50:55,640 --> 02:50:58,720
Speaker 1: in nine in Seattle. And the one in eighteen seventy

3215
02:50:58,760 --> 02:51:02,080
Speaker 1: seven was a general, real strike throughout the railroad industry,

3216
02:51:03,080 --> 02:51:08,720
Speaker 1: but it also had this extraordinary um microcosmic, if you will,

3217
02:51:09,160 --> 02:51:11,280
Speaker 1: a general strike that was happening in St. Louis and

3218
02:51:11,360 --> 02:51:14,760
Speaker 1: East St. Louis. But what was fascinating about that was

3219
02:51:14,879 --> 02:51:17,480
Speaker 1: that the groundwork had been late in eighteen seventy seven,

3220
02:51:17,959 --> 02:51:21,400
Speaker 1: not by a union actually because the workers had tried

3221
02:51:21,480 --> 02:51:24,279
Speaker 1: to form a union, but it was sabotaged, it was infiltrated,

3222
02:51:24,920 --> 02:51:28,160
Speaker 1: and they tried to the the organizers tried to call

3223
02:51:28,280 --> 02:51:31,200
Speaker 1: off the set date to start the general strike and

3224
02:51:31,240 --> 02:51:34,240
Speaker 1: the railroad industry, but the workers wan't on strike anyways,

3225
02:51:34,920 --> 02:51:38,960
Speaker 1: and they built their own organization across dozens of different

3226
02:51:39,080 --> 02:51:42,880
Speaker 1: railroad companies on their own. In St. Louis, however, there

3227
02:51:42,959 --> 02:51:46,240
Speaker 1: was a new left wing party called the Workingmen's Party

3228
02:51:46,959 --> 02:51:52,400
Speaker 1: that was formed by various socialists and communists and anarchists

3229
02:51:52,800 --> 02:51:54,560
Speaker 1: who had taken over the city and for a few

3230
02:51:54,640 --> 02:51:57,040
Speaker 1: days tried to run it. And that was that was

3231
02:51:57,120 --> 02:51:59,960
Speaker 1: probably closer to what happened in Seattle in nine where

3232
02:52:01,200 --> 02:52:06,199
Speaker 1: over a hundred local unions actually pressured the Labor Council

3233
02:52:06,440 --> 02:52:09,080
Speaker 1: to call a general strike, and so that was kind

3234
02:52:09,080 --> 02:52:12,560
Speaker 1: of built up from below through formal unions. But then

3235
02:52:12,600 --> 02:52:16,640
Speaker 1: it went far beyond anything that those AFL affiliated unions

3236
02:52:16,760 --> 02:52:19,879
Speaker 1: were willing to really do. The St. Louis General strike

3237
02:52:19,959 --> 02:52:22,760
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy seven that I was just mentioning. Uh,

3238
02:52:22,920 --> 02:52:29,039
Speaker 1: there was a multi racial coalition of worker organizers who

3239
02:52:29,440 --> 02:52:33,400
Speaker 1: literally took charge of the strike. There had been a

3240
02:52:33,520 --> 02:52:36,800
Speaker 1: strike committee form and those that strike committee was dominated

3241
02:52:36,879 --> 02:52:41,000
Speaker 1: by the Workingmen's Party activists, but the workers themselves started

3242
02:52:41,040 --> 02:52:44,920
Speaker 1: to organize outside the confines of the strike coordinating committee

3243
02:52:45,520 --> 02:52:48,720
Speaker 1: and it was very multiracial. They started marching on one

3244
02:52:48,840 --> 02:52:52,160
Speaker 1: workplace and another. UH. There was some evidence that there

3245
02:52:52,200 --> 02:52:54,040
Speaker 1: were some women that were involved in it, so there

3246
02:52:54,080 --> 02:52:58,519
Speaker 1: were strong ties to the community and various households and neighborhoods.

3247
02:52:59,240 --> 02:53:02,160
Speaker 1: But they marched on one workplace to another and spread

3248
02:53:02,240 --> 02:53:04,440
Speaker 1: the strike, and within a couple of days much of

3249
02:53:04,480 --> 02:53:07,280
Speaker 1: the city had been shut down. And the irony of

3250
02:53:07,360 --> 02:53:12,160
Speaker 1: this was that the strike coordinating Council actually freaked out

3251
02:53:12,520 --> 02:53:16,240
Speaker 1: about how multi racial of the crowds were that were

3252
02:53:16,240 --> 02:53:20,400
Speaker 1: shutting down these workplaces and leaving and leaving work um

3253
02:53:20,640 --> 02:53:26,400
Speaker 1: and internally they became very divided based on their their racism,

3254
02:53:26,879 --> 02:53:29,280
Speaker 1: and there were some members of the coordinating committee that

3255
02:53:29,320 --> 02:53:34,680
Speaker 1: were extreme racial supremacists and didn't want the strike to continue,

3256
02:53:34,760 --> 02:53:37,320
Speaker 1: and they debated how to stop the strike, how to

3257
02:53:37,440 --> 02:53:40,520
Speaker 1: call it off, and but the reality was that they

3258
02:53:40,560 --> 02:53:43,400
Speaker 1: had lost control of it to the workers outside of

3259
02:53:43,600 --> 02:53:47,880
Speaker 1: the committee, And when it became clear that the militias

3260
02:53:48,400 --> 02:53:51,480
Speaker 1: were being called into St. Louis to attack the city,

3261
02:53:52,480 --> 02:53:56,360
Speaker 1: the workers marched on the meeting hall where the strike

3262
02:53:56,400 --> 02:54:00,560
Speaker 1: coordinating Council was and demanded that they appropriate money to

3263
02:54:01,200 --> 02:54:04,640
Speaker 1: acquire arms to defend the city. But they refused to

3264
02:54:04,760 --> 02:54:08,800
Speaker 1: do that, and they eventually tried to call off the strike. UH.

3265
02:54:08,920 --> 02:54:10,880
Speaker 1: So that lasted a few days, and race was a

3266
02:54:11,000 --> 02:54:14,640
Speaker 1: huge factor in why the strikes spread and how the

3267
02:54:14,680 --> 02:54:16,400
Speaker 1: workers took over the city, but it was also a

3268
02:54:16,480 --> 02:54:19,080
Speaker 1: factor in how it was actually killed by those who

3269
02:54:19,080 --> 02:54:22,960
Speaker 1: were supposedly quote unquote running the actual general stripe. In

3270
02:54:23,080 --> 02:54:25,800
Speaker 1: the case of Seattle, we don't know as much about

3271
02:54:25,959 --> 02:54:29,240
Speaker 1: the racial composition of the workers, UM, but we do

3272
02:54:29,400 --> 02:54:33,000
Speaker 1: know that it was very generalized throughout the entire city. UM.

3273
02:54:33,200 --> 02:54:36,480
Speaker 1: And the reason we know this is because the the

3274
02:54:36,840 --> 02:54:40,119
Speaker 1: General Strike Committee, which was formed by the Labor Council,

3275
02:54:40,840 --> 02:54:44,240
Speaker 1: had representatives of every union, and they took care of

3276
02:54:44,560 --> 02:54:48,120
Speaker 1: many of the reproductive needs of the population. For example,

3277
02:54:48,160 --> 02:54:51,720
Speaker 1: they kept the hospital running. Uh. They set up free

3278
02:54:51,959 --> 02:54:57,160
Speaker 1: kitchens where people could eat UM. They as well as

3279
02:54:57,800 --> 02:55:00,240
Speaker 1: setting up and publishing a newspaper that came out every

3280
02:55:00,280 --> 02:55:03,360
Speaker 1: day during the five days of the strike. So they

3281
02:55:03,480 --> 02:55:07,040
Speaker 1: took care of also of public safety. UM. So what

3282
02:55:07,240 --> 02:55:09,800
Speaker 1: was extraordinary about the Seattle General Strike is how it

3283
02:55:09,879 --> 02:55:13,000
Speaker 1: incorporated many of these issues that we would say is

3284
02:55:13,000 --> 02:55:17,320
Speaker 1: about gender and reproductive needs of the population. They didn't

3285
02:55:17,360 --> 02:55:20,520
Speaker 1: just shut down the workplace. They actually took over the

3286
02:55:20,600 --> 02:55:23,920
Speaker 1: city and reorganized society to meet the needs of humanity.

3287
02:55:24,240 --> 02:55:30,119
Speaker 1: The seventy seven strike actually resulted in what I show

3288
02:55:30,240 --> 02:55:31,920
Speaker 1: in a lot of detail in my first book, when

3289
02:55:31,959 --> 02:55:38,199
Speaker 1: workers shot back, how the state and capital reorganized themselves

3290
02:55:38,280 --> 02:55:41,640
Speaker 1: in order to um be able to respond a lot

3291
02:55:41,760 --> 02:55:46,960
Speaker 1: quicker to self organized workers and strikes, and especially general strikes.

3292
02:55:47,480 --> 02:55:51,280
Speaker 1: For example, the modern police came into being in many

3293
02:55:51,440 --> 02:55:53,960
Speaker 1: cities as a result of the eighteen seventy seven strike,

3294
02:55:54,120 --> 02:55:58,040
Speaker 1: because up until that point, the police were um, if

3295
02:55:58,120 --> 02:56:00,800
Speaker 1: you will, they were kind of like give workers. They

3296
02:56:00,879 --> 02:56:04,440
Speaker 1: worked on quote unquote tips or bribes. Uh. There were

3297
02:56:04,560 --> 02:56:08,040
Speaker 1: very few cities that had any municipal police, and if

3298
02:56:08,080 --> 02:56:10,400
Speaker 1: they did, they had very small forces. And so that

3299
02:56:10,520 --> 02:56:13,040
Speaker 1: was one reason why the strikes spread so quickly around

3300
02:56:13,080 --> 02:56:16,240
Speaker 1: the country over that that ten day or so period

3301
02:56:16,800 --> 02:56:20,959
Speaker 1: in July of eighteen seventy seven. Uh So, modern policing

3302
02:56:21,040 --> 02:56:24,000
Speaker 1: really came into being. Also, as you mentioned, the militias

3303
02:56:24,760 --> 02:56:29,160
Speaker 1: were transformed into what became the National Guard. The militias

3304
02:56:29,200 --> 02:56:32,720
Speaker 1: also proved to be undependable because they were mostly composed

3305
02:56:32,760 --> 02:56:36,760
Speaker 1: of working men, and if they were called out locally,

3306
02:56:36,959 --> 02:56:39,120
Speaker 1: they knew the strikers, and in fact, some of them

3307
02:56:39,160 --> 02:56:41,760
Speaker 1: were strikers and didn't even show up for their militia duty.

3308
02:56:42,280 --> 02:56:46,040
Speaker 1: So militias were essentially de emphasized and they were replaced

3309
02:56:46,080 --> 02:56:50,039
Speaker 1: by a state controlled National Guard UM. As a result

3310
02:56:50,120 --> 02:56:53,240
Speaker 1: of the passage of a new federal law UH, the

3311
02:56:53,800 --> 02:56:58,480
Speaker 1: military was also funded on a permanent basis. One reason

3312
02:56:58,520 --> 02:57:01,240
Speaker 1: why the military was so slow to be UH to

3313
02:57:01,360 --> 02:57:03,880
Speaker 1: be deployed to put down the strike in eighteen seventy

3314
02:57:03,920 --> 02:57:06,480
Speaker 1: seven was most of the soldiers were out in the

3315
02:57:06,560 --> 02:57:11,120
Speaker 1: West fighting essentially a genocidal war against the Plans native peoples,

3316
02:57:11,600 --> 02:57:15,039
Speaker 1: and so there weren't enough military around. And also Congress

3317
02:57:15,080 --> 02:57:17,120
Speaker 1: hadn't funded the military that you believe it or not,

3318
02:57:17,680 --> 02:57:23,119
Speaker 1: and so the military was unfunded and undersized. Another consequence

3319
02:57:23,160 --> 02:57:26,560
Speaker 1: of this was that many corporations started to work together

3320
02:57:27,440 --> 02:57:30,520
Speaker 1: to create their own you could say, mutual aid to

3321
02:57:30,680 --> 02:57:34,440
Speaker 1: protect one another. They started forming employer groups in order

3322
02:57:34,480 --> 02:57:37,640
Speaker 1: to be able to respond at a more coordinated method UM.

3323
02:57:37,800 --> 02:57:40,320
Speaker 1: So you started to see corporations cooperati as a result

3324
02:57:40,360 --> 02:57:42,640
Speaker 1: of this. In fact, many of the technologies that we

3325
02:57:42,879 --> 02:57:45,320
Speaker 1: take for granted today were a result of the eighteen

3326
02:57:45,400 --> 02:57:49,720
Speaker 1: seventy seven railroad strike. For example, UH, the telegraph was

3327
02:57:49,800 --> 02:57:52,840
Speaker 1: installed in many rich people's homes as a way to

3328
02:57:52,920 --> 02:57:55,760
Speaker 1: be able to contact the police directly. Those lines went

3329
02:57:55,840 --> 02:57:59,040
Speaker 1: directly to the police UH. The so called patty wagon

3330
02:57:59,680 --> 02:58:02,680
Speaker 1: UH was also invented as a result of the seven

3331
02:58:02,720 --> 02:58:06,400
Speaker 1: strike as a weapon against large crowds UM. So there

3332
02:58:06,440 --> 02:58:09,680
Speaker 1: were a number of m of new technologies that were

3333
02:58:09,720 --> 02:58:13,480
Speaker 1: implemented UH and became more widespread as results of that strike.

3334
02:58:14,440 --> 02:58:18,119
Speaker 1: In Seattle also UH, the workers were prepared. They had

3335
02:58:18,280 --> 02:58:23,199
Speaker 1: known their history, and they formed a self defense group

3336
02:58:23,920 --> 02:58:26,400
Speaker 1: composed primarily of War War one veterans who had just

3337
02:58:26,520 --> 02:58:30,360
Speaker 1: come back from More one UM and they patrolled the

3338
02:58:30,440 --> 02:58:34,080
Speaker 1: city and they did things like shutdown bars because they

3339
02:58:34,120 --> 02:58:37,040
Speaker 1: didn't want UH people to get drunk and start fighting

3340
02:58:37,080 --> 02:58:41,080
Speaker 1: and that would be a justification for the National Guard

3341
02:58:41,120 --> 02:58:44,360
Speaker 1: to be called in. But the police started to essentially

3342
02:58:44,480 --> 02:58:47,720
Speaker 1: line up outside the boundaries of the city and they

3343
02:58:47,800 --> 02:58:52,680
Speaker 1: waited for reinforcements threatenings essentially to invade Seattle before the

3344
02:58:53,160 --> 02:58:55,600
Speaker 1: general strike was called off. But the workers were prepared.

3345
02:58:56,080 --> 02:59:01,800
Speaker 1: They did carry out and organized self defense against that eventuality.

3346
02:59:02,320 --> 02:59:07,520
Speaker 1: The Oakland General Strike was part of an extraordinary wave

3347
02:59:07,720 --> 02:59:10,280
Speaker 1: of post War two strikes that were happening just like

3348
02:59:10,360 --> 02:59:13,200
Speaker 1: after World War One and Actually, during World War One,

3349
02:59:13,280 --> 02:59:15,760
Speaker 1: there was a wave of strikes. UH. The same thing

3350
02:59:15,840 --> 02:59:18,440
Speaker 1: happened when a lot of soldiers started coming back from

3351
02:59:18,480 --> 02:59:24,320
Speaker 1: War two. Unemployment shot up, women were sent as sent packing. UH,

3352
02:59:24,600 --> 02:59:28,640
Speaker 1: prices exploded, there was a shortage of housing UH, and

3353
02:59:29,240 --> 02:59:34,680
Speaker 1: workers started to organize and U. During that few year period, UH,

3354
02:59:34,840 --> 02:59:38,960
Speaker 1: there was a general strike in the steel sector and

3355
02:59:39,080 --> 02:59:42,320
Speaker 1: Truman threatened to take over some of the larger companies,

3356
02:59:42,400 --> 02:59:46,280
Speaker 1: and he was repelled by the Supreme Court. But as

3357
02:59:46,320 --> 02:59:53,280
Speaker 1: a consequence of this UH, this upsurge of class struggle UH,

3358
02:59:53,360 --> 02:59:56,840
Speaker 1: the Congress passed a Staff Hardly Act, which still governs

3359
02:59:57,000 --> 03:00:01,640
Speaker 1: US today. For workers who started organized in the private sector,

3360
03:00:03,000 --> 03:00:05,560
Speaker 1: where they're under the National Labor Relations Act. That Taff

3361
03:00:05,640 --> 03:00:08,440
Speaker 1: Hartley Act was an amendment to that law. One of

3362
03:00:08,520 --> 03:00:11,680
Speaker 1: the most important things it did was a banned so

3363
03:00:11,840 --> 03:00:15,960
Speaker 1: called secondary strikes, which means that if workers go on

3364
03:00:16,080 --> 03:00:22,800
Speaker 1: strikes somewhere, workers can't strike in solidarity UM, and particularly

3365
03:00:23,160 --> 03:00:25,959
Speaker 1: if they have a union contract with their employer, would

3366
03:00:25,959 --> 03:00:29,119
Speaker 1: be illegal. Now, there are some workers that are exempted

3367
03:00:29,160 --> 03:00:31,840
Speaker 1: from that, for example, transport workers because they're under a

3368
03:00:32,000 --> 03:00:35,760
Speaker 1: different federal law. They're under the Railway Labor Act. Which

3369
03:00:35,840 --> 03:00:37,680
Speaker 1: is part of the reason why we almost just saw

3370
03:00:37,920 --> 03:00:41,160
Speaker 1: rail railroad general strike before the Democrats killed it a

3371
03:00:41,240 --> 03:00:46,280
Speaker 1: few weeks ago. But the Taffed Hartley Act continues to

3372
03:00:46,760 --> 03:00:50,320
Speaker 1: serve as a means of suppressing and repressing the ability

3373
03:00:50,360 --> 03:00:53,680
Speaker 1: not only of workers but organized unions in their local workplaces,

3374
03:00:53,959 --> 03:00:58,400
Speaker 1: but to actually engage in a general strike. So again,

3375
03:00:58,440 --> 03:01:01,200
Speaker 1: we've been listening to Robert Ovette's author of One Workers

3376
03:01:01,240 --> 03:01:04,200
Speaker 1: Shot Back and We the Elites just a few key

3377
03:01:04,320 --> 03:01:07,520
Speaker 1: takeaways from that discussion. We see various examples in these

3378
03:01:07,560 --> 03:01:11,280
Speaker 1: general strikes of tensions developing between more radical elements and

3379
03:01:11,480 --> 03:01:15,960
Speaker 1: reformist ones that want to contain revolutionary expressions and also

3380
03:01:16,120 --> 03:01:20,400
Speaker 1: stop workers from really taking over society. We also see

3381
03:01:20,520 --> 03:01:24,880
Speaker 1: positive examples of these strikes spilling out across lines of race, gender,

3382
03:01:24,959 --> 03:01:27,720
Speaker 1: and age and profession. One thing we see, of course,

3383
03:01:27,800 --> 03:01:30,880
Speaker 1: again and again is the state responding to these strikes

3384
03:01:30,920 --> 03:01:33,760
Speaker 1: with the combination of militia's police and of course the

3385
03:01:33,879 --> 03:01:36,800
Speaker 1: National Guard. And finally, many of these strikes lead to

3386
03:01:36,879 --> 03:01:40,240
Speaker 1: the passing of legislation, which is interesting because far from

3387
03:01:40,480 --> 03:01:44,800
Speaker 1: this sort of progressive arc towards justice, instead we see constantly,

3388
03:01:44,800 --> 03:01:47,800
Speaker 1: again and again the state either reforming itself to become

3389
03:01:48,000 --> 03:01:52,360
Speaker 1: more oppressive, engage in surveillance, reconstitute the police in a

3390
03:01:52,440 --> 03:01:56,880
Speaker 1: certain way, reconstitute the military, or sometimes bring the workers

3391
03:01:57,120 --> 03:02:01,080
Speaker 1: into the superstructure of the state and rogers the better man. Yeah,

3392
03:02:01,120 --> 03:02:03,560
Speaker 1: I totally agree. It's not getting better. They're just being

3393
03:02:03,640 --> 03:02:06,000
Speaker 1: smart about it. They're like like little like slimy balls.

3394
03:02:06,040 --> 03:02:08,840
Speaker 1: They're just like reshaping as they need to shape and

3395
03:02:08,920 --> 03:02:11,960
Speaker 1: form to like get workers. So like when you were

3396
03:02:11,959 --> 03:02:13,680
Speaker 1: reading that, it felt like a writer's were It felt

3397
03:02:13,720 --> 03:02:17,040
Speaker 1: like a movie of like how do we control these people?

3398
03:02:17,600 --> 03:02:19,080
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? It felt like it was

3399
03:02:19,160 --> 03:02:21,320
Speaker 1: like this like checker where they're like, oh, they make

3400
03:02:21,360 --> 03:02:23,039
Speaker 1: their move, we make their move. And it's like it's

3401
03:02:23,040 --> 03:02:24,760
Speaker 1: like the state as a tool, and like you see

3402
03:02:24,800 --> 03:02:26,600
Speaker 1: that because it's like it's a tool of the elite,

3403
03:02:26,640 --> 03:02:28,240
Speaker 1: and you see that people laws that are passed, and

3404
03:02:28,320 --> 03:02:30,760
Speaker 1: like when they're passed, like because when black and white

3405
03:02:30,800 --> 03:02:33,600
Speaker 1: people form them, there's violence, like a lot of state violence,

3406
03:02:33,640 --> 03:02:36,240
Speaker 1: like extreme state violence, because it's like they want to

3407
03:02:36,280 --> 03:02:38,200
Speaker 1: remind us like that's bad, you don't do that, and

3408
03:02:38,280 --> 03:02:40,440
Speaker 1: then they'll do stuff to play get workers like white

3409
03:02:40,480 --> 03:02:42,920
Speaker 1: workers too, Like with a Wagner Act, like with unionization,

3410
03:02:43,000 --> 03:02:44,640
Speaker 1: like a lot of black people were excluded from that.

3411
03:02:45,040 --> 03:02:47,600
Speaker 1: Maybe just maybe things aren't getting better like they're telling

3412
03:02:47,680 --> 03:02:50,240
Speaker 1: you they are, things are just reshaping. That's something else

3413
03:02:50,280 --> 03:02:52,320
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about as he was talking, and just like

3414
03:02:52,520 --> 03:02:54,680
Speaker 1: from from that history that it is like we hear

3415
03:02:54,760 --> 03:02:58,040
Speaker 1: that like the creativity of the state with their oppression

3416
03:02:58,160 --> 03:03:00,560
Speaker 1: or whatever it's going on, but also how people keep

3417
03:03:00,640 --> 03:03:02,680
Speaker 1: coming back with like new and different things, you know,

3418
03:03:03,520 --> 03:03:06,800
Speaker 1: like actually takes a lot of repression to stop these things.

3419
03:03:06,840 --> 03:03:09,280
Speaker 1: Like if you look at what happened STUBBN or whatever,

3420
03:03:09,680 --> 03:03:11,320
Speaker 1: it's like they kill quite a lot of people to

3421
03:03:11,400 --> 03:03:13,640
Speaker 1: stop that strike wave and stuff, you know, like it's

3422
03:03:13,680 --> 03:03:16,440
Speaker 1: really heavy handed. And then but still a lot of

3423
03:03:16,480 --> 03:03:18,800
Speaker 1: strikes happen after that, and it leads up to Haymarket

3424
03:03:18,920 --> 03:03:22,039
Speaker 1: in a six or whatever. And I just think, again,

3425
03:03:22,120 --> 03:03:24,960
Speaker 1: again we seem like repression, but then we see it

3426
03:03:25,120 --> 03:03:28,600
Speaker 1: flowering again. And I think that what we're seeing like

3427
03:03:28,800 --> 03:03:32,440
Speaker 1: right now maybe is like a sort of creative non union.

3428
03:03:32,440 --> 03:03:34,120
Speaker 1: That when we're talking at the beginning about people just

3429
03:03:34,160 --> 03:03:37,320
Speaker 1: saying general strike, general strike, it's like whatever happens next

3430
03:03:37,320 --> 03:03:40,080
Speaker 1: will be something different. What we're seeing is we're seeing

3431
03:03:40,120 --> 03:03:43,040
Speaker 1: over this time the mechanism of counterinsurgency get a lot

3432
03:03:43,040 --> 03:03:46,880
Speaker 1: more complex. Right, So in the eighteen seventies, it's let's

3433
03:03:46,920 --> 03:03:49,160
Speaker 1: get some guns and force everyone to go back to work.

3434
03:03:49,600 --> 03:03:53,080
Speaker 1: But now it's why don't we get nonprofits to fund these,

3435
03:03:53,280 --> 03:03:56,520
Speaker 1: you know, public programs. Why don't we have community policing

3436
03:03:56,640 --> 03:03:59,360
Speaker 1: and copy with cops and and so you saw during

3437
03:03:59,520 --> 03:04:01,680
Speaker 1: the Georgia a uprising, as you saw a lot of

3438
03:04:01,800 --> 03:04:04,119
Speaker 1: this like, well, I know that y'all want to cut

3439
03:04:04,160 --> 03:04:06,800
Speaker 1: funding from police departments, but really what you should do

3440
03:04:06,879 --> 03:04:08,520
Speaker 1: is you should come to our budget meeting and we

3441
03:04:08,560 --> 03:04:10,160
Speaker 1: could put it in the city budget and we should

3442
03:04:10,200 --> 03:04:11,680
Speaker 1: talk about it that way. And that was the way

3443
03:04:11,720 --> 03:04:14,280
Speaker 1: to force the resistance in the streets back into a

3444
03:04:14,360 --> 03:04:17,600
Speaker 1: mechanism that's able to be more easily controlled. Um. But

3445
03:04:17,760 --> 03:04:20,760
Speaker 1: we see in like rust belt cities, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, places

3446
03:04:20,840 --> 03:04:23,840
Speaker 1: like this, the way that the wealthy at this period

3447
03:04:23,879 --> 03:04:27,000
Speaker 1: of time, the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, we're

3448
03:04:27,040 --> 03:04:30,320
Speaker 1: already talking about trying to change entire environments. Right, So

3449
03:04:30,480 --> 03:04:33,840
Speaker 1: like surveillance, nonprofit activity like that changes the whole environments.

3450
03:04:33,879 --> 03:04:37,040
Speaker 1: It's not just about a single individual objective but it

3451
03:04:37,120 --> 03:04:40,440
Speaker 1: shapes an entire reality in these rust belt cities during

3452
03:04:40,480 --> 03:04:42,240
Speaker 1: that period of time. I mean, you have a lot

3453
03:04:42,280 --> 03:04:44,120
Speaker 1: of like free art museums and stuff like this that

3454
03:04:44,200 --> 03:04:47,160
Speaker 1: are world class institutions. But if you look at their

3455
03:04:47,240 --> 03:04:50,520
Speaker 1: charters and actually look at them closely, the reason those

3456
03:04:50,560 --> 03:04:54,400
Speaker 1: institutions exist was to quote inculturate the working class. And

3457
03:04:54,480 --> 03:04:58,480
Speaker 1: it was all about like Rockefeller very specifically Cleveland money

3458
03:04:58,560 --> 03:05:01,600
Speaker 1: to these institutions so working class wouldn't kill them, like

3459
03:05:01,640 --> 03:05:03,480
Speaker 1: wouldn't murder them. And it was in the middle of

3460
03:05:04,360 --> 03:05:08,360
Speaker 1: really intense anti capitalist activity in those cities, right and

3461
03:05:08,520 --> 03:05:11,680
Speaker 1: so we can watch the development of those techniques right now.

3462
03:05:11,800 --> 03:05:14,160
Speaker 1: It takes the form of defunding the police campaigns and

3463
03:05:14,240 --> 03:05:17,560
Speaker 1: things like that as opposed abolitionism. Um it takes the

3464
03:05:17,640 --> 03:05:20,560
Speaker 1: form of trying to find softer means of policing, like

3465
03:05:20,879 --> 03:05:24,080
Speaker 1: surveillance as opposed to just having clubs and guns and

3466
03:05:24,160 --> 03:05:26,959
Speaker 1: stuff um. Or in the case of the Democratic Party

3467
03:05:26,959 --> 03:05:29,160
Speaker 1: of the Smart Border, when they talked about the smart Border,

3468
03:05:29,200 --> 03:05:31,680
Speaker 1: which is essentially putting a bunch of sensors and cameras

3469
03:05:31,720 --> 03:05:33,640
Speaker 1: in the desert to try and catch people crossing the border,

3470
03:05:33,959 --> 03:05:38,480
Speaker 1: that somehow less repressive by shaping the entire space around

3471
03:05:38,600 --> 03:05:43,320
Speaker 1: surveillance that's somehow less repressive than just having police. And

3472
03:05:43,440 --> 03:05:45,720
Speaker 1: they use that idea that if they're not in a

3473
03:05:45,840 --> 03:05:47,920
Speaker 1: uniform and they don't have a weapon right in front

3474
03:05:47,959 --> 03:05:51,160
Speaker 1: of them or aren't human, that somehow there's some benefit

3475
03:05:51,480 --> 03:05:53,760
Speaker 1: that emerges and somehow the stage is retreating a little

3476
03:05:53,760 --> 03:05:56,840
Speaker 1: bit when in actuality thinks like body cameras, stuff like

3477
03:05:56,879 --> 03:05:59,680
Speaker 1: that just increase the ability of the state to have visibility,

3478
03:06:00,120 --> 03:06:02,320
Speaker 1: just increases the number of cameras on the street, and

3479
03:06:02,440 --> 03:06:05,280
Speaker 1: increases the ability of the state to control information and

3480
03:06:05,440 --> 03:06:08,200
Speaker 1: decide what information gets out. Um. These are all things

3481
03:06:08,240 --> 03:06:10,480
Speaker 1: which have reinforced the power of the state, but they

3482
03:06:10,560 --> 03:06:14,120
Speaker 1: get portrayed as you know, forms of as reforms that

3483
03:06:14,160 --> 03:06:16,720
Speaker 1: are supposed to solve these huge social problems that people

3484
03:06:16,800 --> 03:06:19,480
Speaker 1: keep raising up. Well, speaking of things rich people give

3485
03:06:19,520 --> 03:06:21,920
Speaker 1: us so we won't kill them. We're going to now

3486
03:06:23,080 --> 03:06:30,720
Speaker 1: here for some from some of our sponsors. So far,

3487
03:06:30,920 --> 03:06:33,320
Speaker 1: we've talked about general strikes that are largely over a

3488
03:06:33,400 --> 03:06:35,560
Speaker 1: hundred years old. But now we're going to turn and

3489
03:06:35,640 --> 03:06:38,040
Speaker 1: look at two examples of general strikes that took place

3490
03:06:38,120 --> 03:06:42,480
Speaker 1: within the last twenty years. In December of two thousand five.

3491
03:06:43,000 --> 03:06:47,000
Speaker 1: Republicans passed in the House of Representatives. HR four four

3492
03:06:47,160 --> 03:06:51,720
Speaker 1: three seven, also known as the Border Protection, Anti Terrorism,

3493
03:06:52,200 --> 03:06:55,920
Speaker 1: and Illegal Immigration Control Act of two thousand five, a

3494
03:06:56,040 --> 03:07:00,320
Speaker 1: proposed piece of legislation that's as jaconian as it sounds. Bill,

3495
03:07:00,440 --> 03:07:03,199
Speaker 1: as the A. C. L. You wrote, pushed to quote,

3496
03:07:03,280 --> 03:07:08,320
Speaker 1: militarize the border, give extraordinary powers to low level immigration officials,

3497
03:07:08,760 --> 03:07:12,600
Speaker 1: allowing law enforcement to expel without hearing anyone believed to

3498
03:07:12,680 --> 03:07:17,879
Speaker 1: be undocumented and detained non citizens and definitely without meaningful review.

3499
03:07:18,480 --> 03:07:22,160
Speaker 1: The bill also sought to levy criminal penalties against anyone

3500
03:07:22,240 --> 03:07:26,320
Speaker 1: that engage in assisting someone that was undocumented, which threatened

3501
03:07:26,320 --> 03:07:31,120
Speaker 1: both employers of undocumented workers, as well as union organizers, teachers, clergy,

3502
03:07:31,560 --> 03:07:35,040
Speaker 1: and beyond, Foreshadowing the Trump presidency. It also called for

3503
03:07:35,240 --> 03:07:38,560
Speaker 1: hundreds of miles of border fence and authorized state and

3504
03:07:38,680 --> 03:07:42,879
Speaker 1: local law enforcement to enforce federal immigration law. As George

3505
03:07:42,959 --> 03:07:46,600
Speaker 1: Campas wrote in the See Say Poty Insurrection, the bill

3506
03:07:46,680 --> 03:07:50,160
Speaker 1: would transform almost every person in the United States into

3507
03:07:50,280 --> 03:07:56,200
Speaker 1: either undocumented violators, police enforcers, or classify them as criminally complicit.

3508
03:07:56,480 --> 03:08:00,240
Speaker 1: The authoritarian nature of the legislation and the existential threat

3509
03:08:00,280 --> 03:08:03,039
Speaker 1: and represented pushed many a document of workers to take

3510
03:08:03,120 --> 03:08:06,320
Speaker 1: action and organized on a mass scale. As Kemphus wrote,

3511
03:08:06,600 --> 03:08:09,840
Speaker 1: starting in March of two thousand, six marches and more

3512
03:08:09,959 --> 03:08:12,920
Speaker 1: than half a million people overwhelmed the centers of major

3513
03:08:13,000 --> 03:08:18,480
Speaker 1: cities like Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, and Dallas halteing business,

3514
03:08:18,520 --> 03:08:22,119
Speaker 1: while there were literally hundreds of smaller gatherings and many

3515
03:08:22,240 --> 03:08:26,000
Speaker 1: other smaller cities. There were dozens of student walkouts and

3516
03:08:26,120 --> 03:08:29,199
Speaker 1: high schools around the country, as well as a nationwide

3517
03:08:29,240 --> 03:08:33,200
Speaker 1: immigrant general strike called for on Maybee that was heated

3518
03:08:33,240 --> 03:08:37,480
Speaker 1: by hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of workers, including truck drivers,

3519
03:08:37,560 --> 03:08:40,480
Speaker 1: who shut down the port of Los Angeles. Despite a

3520
03:08:40,520 --> 03:08:44,080
Speaker 1: series of large scale immigration raids aimed at derailing the movement,

3521
03:08:44,280 --> 03:08:47,199
Speaker 1: millions took the streets and carried out strikes, all outside

3522
03:08:47,200 --> 03:08:50,040
Speaker 1: of the direction of Union in Democratic Party leadership. The

3523
03:08:50,120 --> 03:08:52,920
Speaker 1: mass protests and strikes helped revive May Day as a

3524
03:08:53,040 --> 03:08:55,640
Speaker 1: day of labor and worker action in the United States.

3525
03:08:56,200 --> 03:08:59,640
Speaker 1: Installed for over a decade. Right wing attacks on immigrants

3526
03:09:00,040 --> 03:09:02,920
Speaker 1: are four four, three seven failed to pass, in large

3527
03:09:03,000 --> 03:09:05,680
Speaker 1: part due to the mass opposition and faced on the streets.

3528
03:09:06,120 --> 03:09:08,880
Speaker 1: In the spring of two thousand six direct action, as

3529
03:09:08,959 --> 03:09:12,000
Speaker 1: they say, gets the goods. And what's fascinating about the

3530
03:09:12,040 --> 03:09:15,039
Speaker 1: two thousand six strike is that it was organized outside

3531
03:09:15,320 --> 03:09:19,440
Speaker 1: of established unions and political parties, especially Democratic Party, had

3532
03:09:19,480 --> 03:09:22,480
Speaker 1: a key youth wing to it. We saw lots of

3533
03:09:22,520 --> 03:09:26,360
Speaker 1: student walkouts. It was able to seriously push back against

3534
03:09:26,440 --> 03:09:30,400
Speaker 1: this draconian wave of anti immigrant legislation, and that worked

3535
03:09:30,480 --> 03:09:33,400
Speaker 1: for around ten years. And it seems like we don't

3536
03:09:33,480 --> 03:09:36,920
Speaker 1: reference this strike enough and talk about how important it was.

3537
03:09:37,520 --> 03:09:39,600
Speaker 1: I was in a junior in high school when kids

3538
03:09:39,640 --> 03:09:41,960
Speaker 1: were walking out, but this is how I sleep. I was.

3539
03:09:42,120 --> 03:09:44,800
Speaker 1: I didn't walk out, and I just remember thinking, oh

3540
03:09:44,879 --> 03:09:48,840
Speaker 1: my god, those kids are so courageous and they're such badasses,

3541
03:09:49,280 --> 03:09:50,920
Speaker 1: and it's so cool that they're doing that, and I

3542
03:09:51,000 --> 03:09:53,240
Speaker 1: wish that I could. Well that law was like he

3543
03:09:53,360 --> 03:09:56,120
Speaker 1: should have slave Law Act, like straight up. They were

3544
03:09:56,200 --> 03:09:59,640
Speaker 1: just trying to like re install slavery among people who

3545
03:09:59,680 --> 03:10:01,640
Speaker 1: were not out here documented like you know what I mean.

3546
03:10:01,840 --> 03:10:03,600
Speaker 1: They were trying to create a situation where people were

3547
03:10:03,600 --> 03:10:05,280
Speaker 1: still working dest bread, they were going to work for

3548
03:10:05,360 --> 03:10:07,320
Speaker 1: slave wages. And I'll say this about New York City,

3549
03:10:07,520 --> 03:10:10,880
Speaker 1: there's a huge like immigrant population, a huge undocumented work

3550
03:10:10,920 --> 03:10:12,440
Speaker 1: of population that we didn't even I mean, I didn't

3551
03:10:12,440 --> 03:10:14,800
Speaker 1: know about until COVID hit. Like, there's a lot of

3552
03:10:14,879 --> 03:10:17,480
Speaker 1: people who are keeping the economy alive that are not

3553
03:10:17,600 --> 03:10:20,600
Speaker 1: even counted, and they pay for our existence. As we're

3554
03:10:20,640 --> 03:10:22,480
Speaker 1: talking about those, two things that always come up for

3555
03:10:22,560 --> 03:10:25,840
Speaker 1: me from talking about these strikes. First is, you know,

3556
03:10:25,959 --> 03:10:29,400
Speaker 1: the entire concept of quote immigration reform as it was

3557
03:10:29,440 --> 03:10:31,600
Speaker 1: being talked about by Republicans at the time and then

3558
03:10:31,720 --> 03:10:35,359
Speaker 1: later accelerated under Trump. This idea of border walls started

3559
03:10:35,400 --> 03:10:38,240
Speaker 1: with the American Nazi Party, right, Like, this was an

3560
03:10:38,280 --> 03:10:41,720
Speaker 1: American Nazi Party policy proposal in the nineteen fifties and

3561
03:10:41,840 --> 03:10:45,840
Speaker 1: sixties that got picked up through white supremacist movements, through

3562
03:10:45,879 --> 03:10:48,680
Speaker 1: people like George Wallace and sort of imported into the

3563
03:10:48,720 --> 03:10:54,200
Speaker 1: Republican Party. Yeah, because it's Nazis. I think the other

3564
03:10:54,320 --> 03:10:57,400
Speaker 1: thing that was really inspiring about that movement I was,

3565
03:10:57,600 --> 03:11:00,800
Speaker 1: you know, out of college at that point watching this happen.

3566
03:11:01,080 --> 03:11:04,320
Speaker 1: It was one of the first times I saw mass

3567
03:11:04,480 --> 03:11:09,000
Speaker 1: decentralized action happened across the entire country at that scale

3568
03:11:09,240 --> 03:11:12,560
Speaker 1: that sort of hit and apex like during these days, right,

3569
03:11:12,680 --> 03:11:15,080
Speaker 1: the sort of period of time in which people kind

3570
03:11:15,080 --> 03:11:17,400
Speaker 1: of took it upon themselves to shut the whole country down,

3571
03:11:17,480 --> 03:11:19,520
Speaker 1: And it just shows what can happen when community is

3572
03:11:19,640 --> 03:11:23,360
Speaker 1: organized as communities of people and not as spectators in

3573
03:11:23,480 --> 03:11:27,080
Speaker 1: some sort of removed symbolic political action, but actually become

3574
03:11:27,120 --> 03:11:29,320
Speaker 1: immediate protagonists and what's going on in front of them.

3575
03:11:29,400 --> 03:11:31,920
Speaker 1: Another thing I think is really interesting about this is

3576
03:11:32,000 --> 03:11:34,120
Speaker 1: that it was such a massive response and that part

3577
03:11:34,200 --> 03:11:38,320
Speaker 1: of what the Act was saying was that you could

3578
03:11:38,400 --> 03:11:42,600
Speaker 1: be like prosecutor for assisting someone who's undocumented. That I

3579
03:11:42,720 --> 03:11:44,040
Speaker 1: think it like goes back to what we've be talking

3580
03:11:44,040 --> 03:11:46,080
Speaker 1: about with the other strikes stuff, is like the government

3581
03:11:46,200 --> 03:11:49,760
Speaker 1: is very aware that like solidarity between people is dangerous

3582
03:11:49,920 --> 03:11:52,240
Speaker 1: basically and tries to letisate it. And we see, you know,

3583
03:11:52,320 --> 03:11:54,320
Speaker 1: after that strike in you know, the strike way of

3584
03:11:54,320 --> 03:11:56,000
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy seven, you start to get all those

3585
03:11:56,000 --> 03:11:59,160
Speaker 1: anti conspiracy laws and stuff because that's a threat. And

3586
03:11:59,280 --> 03:12:00,959
Speaker 1: I love it in the sense it's like they put

3587
03:12:01,080 --> 03:12:04,200
Speaker 1: out and it gets like, um, such a massive response

3588
03:12:04,240 --> 03:12:07,080
Speaker 1: against it that people really like win basically and that

3589
03:12:07,280 --> 03:12:09,400
Speaker 1: last for like a decade. Yeah. I think that goes

3590
03:12:09,480 --> 03:12:12,920
Speaker 1: back to the idea of white supremacy historically in the

3591
03:12:13,000 --> 03:12:16,520
Speaker 1: United States being this system of how people described it,

3592
03:12:16,600 --> 03:12:21,959
Speaker 1: of carrots and sticks, of offering incentives to be included

3593
03:12:22,120 --> 03:12:25,200
Speaker 1: in this bracket of whiteness, but then also saying, oh,

3594
03:12:25,200 --> 03:12:27,360
Speaker 1: and if you help that kid at school, we're gonna

3595
03:12:27,520 --> 03:12:30,040
Speaker 1: throw you in jail along with them, which again is

3596
03:12:30,160 --> 03:12:33,640
Speaker 1: a good reason to celebrate these strikes because they were

3597
03:12:33,680 --> 03:12:37,000
Speaker 1: effective in beating back this legislation, but also pointing out

3598
03:12:37,280 --> 03:12:41,959
Speaker 1: that everyone should have been taking part in these actions. Well, hey,

3599
03:12:42,040 --> 03:12:43,880
Speaker 1: thanks for tuning in. That's going to wrap up the

3600
03:12:43,959 --> 03:12:47,320
Speaker 1: first episode. We encourage you to follow us going down

3601
03:12:47,600 --> 03:12:51,720
Speaker 1: on masses on at I g D Underscore News and

3602
03:12:52,680 --> 03:12:55,440
Speaker 1: we hope you enjoyed us taking over It could happen here.

3603
03:12:55,600 --> 03:12:57,960
Speaker 1: We're gonna be back tomorrow. We're going to continue to

3604
03:12:58,040 --> 03:13:00,360
Speaker 1: look at general strikes. We're gonna do a deep dive

3605
03:13:00,480 --> 03:13:04,080
Speaker 1: into Occupy Oakland that kicked off in two thousand eleven,

3606
03:13:04,680 --> 03:13:07,680
Speaker 1: and we're gonna look at how a citywide general strike

3607
03:13:07,800 --> 03:13:11,920
Speaker 1: grew out of the Oakland Commune after the police nearly

3608
03:13:12,160 --> 03:13:15,520
Speaker 1: murdered in Iraq War veteran and thanks for tuning in.

3609
03:13:31,280 --> 03:13:34,480
Speaker 1: Welcome back once again, you're listening to It could happen

3610
03:13:34,560 --> 03:13:36,920
Speaker 1: here with the crew from It's Going Down Taking Over.

3611
03:13:37,440 --> 03:13:39,520
Speaker 1: This is our second show and we'll be doing a

3612
03:13:39,600 --> 03:13:42,160
Speaker 1: total of five episodes throughout the month of January. So

3613
03:13:42,240 --> 03:13:44,279
Speaker 1: if you like what you here, please let the amazing

3614
03:13:44,320 --> 03:13:47,440
Speaker 1: folks at cool Zone Media know. Yesterday we began by

3615
03:13:47,480 --> 03:13:50,560
Speaker 1: looking at general strikes in US history, starting with the

3616
03:13:50,640 --> 03:13:54,240
Speaker 1: mass plantation strike during the American Civil War. We spoke

3617
03:13:54,320 --> 03:13:57,880
Speaker 1: with labor historian Robert Ovetts about the revolutionary and bloody

3618
03:13:57,959 --> 03:14:00,360
Speaker 1: history of general strikes in the United States, and we

3619
03:14:00,480 --> 03:14:03,119
Speaker 1: also looked at the immigrant general strike in two thousand

3620
03:14:03,240 --> 03:14:07,320
Speaker 1: six that successfully beat back drew Conian legislation that sought

3621
03:14:07,360 --> 03:14:10,680
Speaker 1: to further militarize the border and attack and documented people.

3622
03:14:11,000 --> 03:14:12,840
Speaker 1: On today's show, we're going to be looking at a

3623
03:14:12,879 --> 03:14:15,960
Speaker 1: general strike that was called for by Occupy Oakland, which

3624
03:14:16,000 --> 03:14:20,040
Speaker 1: took place on November two. Occupy Oakland was part of

3625
03:14:20,120 --> 03:14:23,000
Speaker 1: the much larger occupy movement that beginning New York with

3626
03:14:23,120 --> 03:14:25,960
Speaker 1: the occupation of Zukkati Park, but was seen as the

3627
03:14:26,080 --> 03:14:29,120
Speaker 1: radical focal point for the growing struggle, starting as an

3628
03:14:29,160 --> 03:14:32,160
Speaker 1: occupation on October tent in front of Oakland City Hall

3629
03:14:32,360 --> 03:14:36,720
Speaker 1: named Oscar Grant Plaza. On October twenty Iraq War veteran

3630
03:14:36,800 --> 03:14:39,280
Speaker 1: Scott Olsen was nearly killed after being shot with a

3631
03:14:39,320 --> 03:14:43,640
Speaker 1: police projectile during clashes between police and demonstrators as law

3632
03:14:43,760 --> 03:14:47,400
Speaker 1: enforcement attempted to evict the growing Oakland commune. Following the

3633
03:14:47,480 --> 03:14:51,120
Speaker 1: Olsen shooting, thousands were occupied Oscar Grant Plaza and the

3634
03:14:51,240 --> 03:14:54,120
Speaker 1: general strike was called for a week later. Upwards of

3635
03:14:54,200 --> 03:14:57,680
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand people took part in the strike's associated actions,

3636
03:14:58,120 --> 03:15:02,119
Speaker 1: which included mass marches, a large anti capitalist black block

3637
03:15:02,200 --> 03:15:05,120
Speaker 1: which broke bank windows, and the shutting down of the

3638
03:15:05,200 --> 03:15:09,080
Speaker 1: Port of Oakland, with upwards of one thousand people participating.

3639
03:15:09,800 --> 03:15:11,680
Speaker 1: Well before we hear from our guests on the subject,

3640
03:15:11,720 --> 03:15:13,520
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk a little bit about the occupy

3641
03:15:13,600 --> 03:15:16,359
Speaker 1: movement and Occupy Oakland and why it was so important.

3642
03:15:16,440 --> 03:15:20,039
Speaker 1: The occupy movement itself grew amidst this growing anger over

3643
03:15:20,080 --> 03:15:23,160
Speaker 1: the economic crisis, but also this fading belief and the

3644
03:15:23,280 --> 03:15:26,720
Speaker 1: hope and change promised by Obama. While naturally it seemed

3645
03:15:26,760 --> 03:15:29,160
Speaker 1: to kind of sort of come out of nowhere, there

3646
03:15:29,200 --> 03:15:32,760
Speaker 1: were certainly things that really helped influence it. Naturally, there

3647
03:15:32,840 --> 03:15:36,440
Speaker 1: was the occupation by Chicago workers at the Republic Windows

3648
03:15:36,480 --> 03:15:40,120
Speaker 1: and Doors Factory, which signaled a real turning point, as

3649
03:15:40,160 --> 03:15:43,120
Speaker 1: well as the occupation of the Wisconsin State capital in

3650
03:15:43,160 --> 03:15:47,120
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven against anti union legislation, and all this

3651
03:15:47,280 --> 03:15:50,320
Speaker 1: was happened against the backdrop of the Arab Spring, and

3652
03:15:50,360 --> 03:15:53,080
Speaker 1: then in the Bay Area the Oscar Grant rebellion and

3653
03:15:53,200 --> 03:15:55,640
Speaker 1: riots in two thousand and nine and two thousand ten

3654
03:15:55,800 --> 03:15:59,039
Speaker 1: kicked off and had a massive impact, centering discussions around

3655
03:15:59,080 --> 03:16:02,200
Speaker 1: police race and supremacy, as well as the role of

3656
03:16:02,360 --> 03:16:05,360
Speaker 1: rioting and social movements. At the same time, students and

3657
03:16:05,440 --> 03:16:09,040
Speaker 1: graduate workers occupied college campus buildings in New York and

3658
03:16:09,120 --> 03:16:13,480
Speaker 1: across California, which really spread the concept of occupying across

3659
03:16:13,560 --> 03:16:16,959
Speaker 1: the social terrain, as well as slogans like strike, occupied, takeover,

3660
03:16:17,440 --> 03:16:20,840
Speaker 1: and occupy everything. Now, the explosion of the occupy movement

3661
03:16:20,879 --> 03:16:23,439
Speaker 1: in the fall of two thousand eleven cannot be overstated.

3662
03:16:23,600 --> 03:16:26,720
Speaker 1: Occupying camments became a focal point for people angry at

3663
03:16:26,760 --> 03:16:29,440
Speaker 1: the general state of the world to gather discuss an

3664
03:16:29,480 --> 03:16:32,840
Speaker 1: act and they became a real focal point for encounter.

3665
03:16:33,080 --> 03:16:35,800
Speaker 1: While some cities saw these encampments come and go pretty quickly,

3666
03:16:36,320 --> 03:16:39,400
Speaker 1: when he saw concrete projects and organizing come out of them,

3667
03:16:39,800 --> 03:16:42,360
Speaker 1: people were fighting to resist foreclosures, for instance, in a

3668
03:16:42,400 --> 03:16:45,080
Speaker 1: lot of cities, and for many people this was where

3669
03:16:45,160 --> 03:16:47,959
Speaker 1: they were introduced to anarchist concepts such as direct action,

3670
03:16:48,200 --> 03:16:52,720
Speaker 1: horizontal organizing, and consensus decision making, which really brought these

3671
03:16:52,800 --> 03:16:55,520
Speaker 1: ideas front and center to hundreds of thousands of people

3672
03:16:55,600 --> 03:16:58,440
Speaker 1: in a real and tangible way. And while a lot

3673
03:16:58,480 --> 03:17:01,039
Speaker 1: of people on the left from a variety of backgrounds

3674
03:17:01,120 --> 03:17:04,040
Speaker 1: took part, the real backbone of those involved and occupy

3675
03:17:04,120 --> 03:17:07,040
Speaker 1: were just everyday people who were new to social movements

3676
03:17:07,120 --> 03:17:10,960
Speaker 1: and became activated by material conditions and just the zeitgeist

3677
03:17:11,000 --> 03:17:15,160
Speaker 1: of what was happening at the time. Occupy was fascinating

3678
03:17:15,360 --> 03:17:17,680
Speaker 1: for me, like I was in the Rust Belt at

3679
03:17:17,720 --> 03:17:20,240
Speaker 1: the time. Still at the occupy, I was part of

3680
03:17:20,480 --> 03:17:23,120
Speaker 1: the first march of five thousand people there. There may

3681
03:17:23,160 --> 03:17:25,600
Speaker 1: be like two or three d people at the general

3682
03:17:25,680 --> 03:17:28,000
Speaker 1: Assembly the night before, So most of the people that

3683
03:17:28,080 --> 03:17:30,800
Speaker 1: showed up were not people currently connected at that point

3684
03:17:31,400 --> 03:17:33,720
Speaker 1: to any kind of political organizing. They were just people

3685
03:17:33,760 --> 03:17:35,040
Speaker 1: that showed up because they heard about it on the

3686
03:17:35,080 --> 03:17:37,240
Speaker 1: internet and they showed up to do the thing. And

3687
03:17:37,320 --> 03:17:40,760
Speaker 1: that camp alot lasted nine months, but we can start

3688
03:17:40,840 --> 03:17:43,200
Speaker 1: to see the impacts of that kind of breakdown of

3689
03:17:43,280 --> 03:17:46,440
Speaker 1: that division between people who declared themselves political and quote

3690
03:17:46,440 --> 03:17:49,400
Speaker 1: everybody else. When we start to move forward past Occupy,

3691
03:17:49,480 --> 03:17:52,879
Speaker 1: we start to see that manifest during the ground Uprising Ferguson,

3692
03:17:52,959 --> 03:17:55,119
Speaker 1: We start to see that manifest during the George Floyd Rebellion,

3693
03:17:55,480 --> 03:17:59,440
Speaker 1: where this kind of division between those that declare themselves

3694
03:17:59,520 --> 03:18:02,279
Speaker 1: to be iCal agents and those that have not declared

3695
03:18:02,320 --> 03:18:05,480
Speaker 1: themselves to be so just ceases to really exist. And

3696
03:18:05,560 --> 03:18:08,760
Speaker 1: it's in those moments where we really actually see uprisings occur.

3697
03:18:08,920 --> 03:18:11,480
Speaker 1: Occupied pointed out an important thing which is a fallacy

3698
03:18:11,560 --> 03:18:12,879
Speaker 1: in the way that we think, and that we think

3699
03:18:12,920 --> 03:18:16,520
Speaker 1: that radicals make revolts happen, when in reality, people make

3700
03:18:16,560 --> 03:18:19,600
Speaker 1: revolts happen, and our job is to antagonize circumstances. And

3701
03:18:19,680 --> 03:18:21,680
Speaker 1: it's only at the point in which that division breaks

3702
03:18:21,720 --> 03:18:25,560
Speaker 1: down between quote us and everybody else, that revolts actually occur.

3703
03:18:26,200 --> 03:18:28,680
Speaker 1: And Occupy it was a really important point in a

3704
03:18:28,760 --> 03:18:31,520
Speaker 1: trajectory of I think a sector of the American anarchist

3705
03:18:31,560 --> 03:18:34,720
Speaker 1: movement and a sector of the American political scene starting

3706
03:18:34,760 --> 03:18:38,800
Speaker 1: to really internalize that understanding, starting to really grasp how

3707
03:18:38,920 --> 03:18:40,400
Speaker 1: different that is from the way that we have been

3708
03:18:40,400 --> 03:18:43,480
Speaker 1: taught to organize, and we're still seeing the ramifications of

3709
03:18:43,520 --> 03:18:46,119
Speaker 1: a lot of that work today, many many many years later,

3710
03:18:46,720 --> 03:18:49,400
Speaker 1: looking at like occupied, looking at any of these big moments.

3711
03:18:49,720 --> 03:18:51,560
Speaker 1: When we look back, we can see all these things

3712
03:18:51,640 --> 03:18:54,640
Speaker 1: that like contribute to it, you know. And I think

3713
03:18:54,720 --> 03:18:56,640
Speaker 1: that this thing that you ASO can see tom of them,

3714
03:18:57,360 --> 03:19:00,000
Speaker 1: like the kind of losing that thing of like professor

3715
03:19:00,240 --> 03:19:03,480
Speaker 1: active act or like or actor in a situation is

3716
03:19:03,520 --> 03:19:06,440
Speaker 1: like so important, and I think that that is something

3717
03:19:06,520 --> 03:19:08,560
Speaker 1: that can really inspire in terms of what's happening in

3718
03:19:08,640 --> 03:19:11,640
Speaker 1: this moment too, or like how general strikes happen, or

3719
03:19:11,680 --> 03:19:15,120
Speaker 1: how something that occupy happens. Is that things happen, like

3720
03:19:15,240 --> 03:19:17,400
Speaker 1: there are sort of moments that are kind of outside

3721
03:19:17,440 --> 03:19:19,840
Speaker 1: of our control. It's not something that can be like

3722
03:19:20,040 --> 03:19:22,680
Speaker 1: planned for, and if you do all the right things,

3723
03:19:22,760 --> 03:19:24,920
Speaker 1: then you get a general strike. But you can kind

3724
03:19:25,000 --> 03:19:28,160
Speaker 1: of like be relating to circumstances and to each other

3725
03:19:28,360 --> 03:19:31,680
Speaker 1: and then different things happen. Um like thinking about the

3726
03:19:32,360 --> 03:19:36,400
Speaker 1: George Floyd uprising in twenty like none of us predicted COVID,

3727
03:19:36,760 --> 03:19:39,160
Speaker 1: you know, and like how that might have contributed to

3728
03:19:39,400 --> 03:19:42,000
Speaker 1: what happened in that or just like all these different

3729
03:19:42,000 --> 03:19:45,640
Speaker 1: circumstances that come together to make these moments um and

3730
03:19:46,160 --> 03:19:48,560
Speaker 1: I think that you know, something like what's going on now,

3731
03:19:48,640 --> 03:19:50,480
Speaker 1: we could look back and look at all these different

3732
03:19:50,480 --> 03:19:52,600
Speaker 1: things that are happening that then make something big happen,

3733
03:19:52,760 --> 03:19:56,520
Speaker 1: and we never really know or can control that. A

3734
03:19:56,600 --> 03:19:59,800
Speaker 1: lot of the striking and occupy it serves the purpose

3735
03:19:59,840 --> 03:20:02,200
Speaker 1: of not us just coming together collectively, but it also

3736
03:20:02,240 --> 03:20:05,440
Speaker 1: serves as purpose of propaganda, and it just reminds me

3737
03:20:05,520 --> 03:20:08,880
Speaker 1: of this idea important idea of us occupying public spaces

3738
03:20:09,120 --> 03:20:11,280
Speaker 1: and the reason why we're not allowed to occupy public

3739
03:20:11,360 --> 03:20:13,720
Speaker 1: spaces because it's like sort of taking the power. And

3740
03:20:13,760 --> 03:20:16,120
Speaker 1: when there's lots of us occupied in public spaces, the

3741
03:20:16,280 --> 03:20:18,039
Speaker 1: media covers it and then it's like, well, what are

3742
03:20:18,080 --> 03:20:20,160
Speaker 1: these people talking about? What are they doing? And that

3743
03:20:20,320 --> 03:20:23,040
Speaker 1: would then itself also serves as a propaganda mechanism to

3744
03:20:23,160 --> 03:20:26,000
Speaker 1: like spread, so like I like just like listening to that.

3745
03:20:26,080 --> 03:20:28,040
Speaker 1: And I remember when again, like occupy was one of

3746
03:20:28,080 --> 03:20:29,360
Speaker 1: the moments that I was one of the people who

3747
03:20:29,440 --> 03:20:31,640
Speaker 1: viewed myself as not political, but I cared about what

3748
03:20:31,800 --> 03:20:33,720
Speaker 1: was happening in the movement because that was the first

3749
03:20:33,760 --> 03:20:36,480
Speaker 1: time I heard we are I think about moments of

3750
03:20:36,560 --> 03:20:38,720
Speaker 1: radicalization that I think of this one as being one

3751
03:20:38,760 --> 03:20:41,200
Speaker 1: of them as a person who's just like recently and

3752
03:20:41,280 --> 03:20:43,520
Speaker 1: as a five years ago recently awoke, Like these are

3753
03:20:43,600 --> 03:20:45,840
Speaker 1: moments that I remember, like had an impact on me

3754
03:20:46,480 --> 03:20:49,280
Speaker 1: seeing people on the street taking public spaces, and I

3755
03:20:49,400 --> 03:20:52,520
Speaker 1: think that perhaps that's something that we should continue to do.

3756
03:20:52,800 --> 03:20:54,680
Speaker 1: And maybe it's not one of those things where it's

3757
03:20:54,720 --> 03:20:56,880
Speaker 1: like maybe not as large as occupy, maybe it's not

3758
03:20:57,200 --> 03:20:59,800
Speaker 1: consistently large, but like maybe we as civilians to just

3759
03:21:00,040 --> 03:21:02,720
Speaker 1: over public spaces all the time, just as a reminder

3760
03:21:02,760 --> 03:21:04,560
Speaker 1: to ourselves that we do have the power to do that.

3761
03:21:04,640 --> 03:21:06,120
Speaker 1: Like we can't have a free store here because we

3762
03:21:06,160 --> 03:21:07,560
Speaker 1: want to. We don't have to ask the government for

3763
03:21:07,600 --> 03:21:09,520
Speaker 1: permission to do anything, like I think it's a huge

3764
03:21:09,560 --> 03:21:13,120
Speaker 1: first stop of becoming ungovernable and speaking of things that

3765
03:21:13,200 --> 03:21:16,120
Speaker 1: belong in a free store. We're now going to hear

3766
03:21:16,240 --> 03:21:21,359
Speaker 1: from our sponsors. For us to understand how the Oakland

3767
03:21:21,400 --> 03:21:24,680
Speaker 1: General Strike of took place, we first have to go

3768
03:21:24,800 --> 03:21:27,400
Speaker 1: back to what made Occupy Oakland so important to so

3769
03:21:27,480 --> 03:21:30,680
Speaker 1: many people just a few short weeks in October. In

3770
03:21:30,800 --> 03:21:33,680
Speaker 1: the following interview, we speak with it's Going Down. Contributor,

3771
03:21:34,120 --> 03:21:37,960
Speaker 1: author and translator based in Mexico, Scott Campbell about his

3772
03:21:38,080 --> 03:21:40,760
Speaker 1: memories of occupy and what set the stage for a

3773
03:21:40,800 --> 03:21:44,200
Speaker 1: massive strike on November two. We didn't speak with Tova,

3774
03:21:44,280 --> 03:21:47,800
Speaker 1: who was involved in the Occupy Oakland Labor Solidarity Committee,

3775
03:21:48,240 --> 03:21:51,480
Speaker 1: about Bay Area labor unions becoming involved in the strike.

3776
03:21:52,160 --> 03:21:55,320
Speaker 1: So to kick things off, Scott tell us about Occupy Oakland,

3777
03:21:55,440 --> 03:21:58,360
Speaker 1: what it looked like, how life and Oscar Grand Plaza

3778
03:21:58,480 --> 03:22:01,560
Speaker 1: was organized, and about this living, breathing thing many came

3779
03:22:01,640 --> 03:22:04,520
Speaker 1: to call the Oakland community. If you were to walk

3780
03:22:04,600 --> 03:22:07,920
Speaker 1: into Occupy Oakland, I think you'd be overwhelmed. Um. It

3781
03:22:08,240 --> 03:22:15,080
Speaker 1: was an amazing, vibrant, self managed, auto jestive community where

3782
03:22:15,200 --> 03:22:18,720
Speaker 1: you had folks living there in an Oscar Grant plaza.

3783
03:22:19,160 --> 03:22:25,760
Speaker 1: You had food, childcare, medical care, libraries, UM, all sorts

3784
03:22:25,800 --> 03:22:29,879
Speaker 1: of projects UM in a self run sort of directly

3785
03:22:29,959 --> 03:22:35,520
Speaker 1: democratic assembly based, communally organized space. And it was open

3786
03:22:35,600 --> 03:22:38,520
Speaker 1: to anyone except for police and politicians who wanted to

3787
03:22:38,680 --> 03:22:43,440
Speaker 1: come and participate in this sort of radical experiment, this

3788
03:22:43,600 --> 03:22:47,039
Speaker 1: radical form of being with one another outside the constraints

3789
03:22:47,120 --> 03:22:50,320
Speaker 1: of how society normally constructs us to perform and interact

3790
03:22:50,400 --> 03:22:54,039
Speaker 1: with one another. And I think what really stuck out

3791
03:22:54,080 --> 03:22:56,880
Speaker 1: to me the most during this time period was just

3792
03:22:57,320 --> 03:23:01,800
Speaker 1: the the welcoming atmosphere or the sense of potential that

3793
03:23:01,959 --> 03:23:05,160
Speaker 1: the camp um and the activities based around the camp held,

3794
03:23:05,720 --> 03:23:10,400
Speaker 1: the openness of people, and really the wide range of

3795
03:23:10,480 --> 03:23:14,960
Speaker 1: individuals who were participating in collectives who were participating, which certainly,

3796
03:23:15,000 --> 03:23:17,720
Speaker 1: of course led to differences of opinions at times that

3797
03:23:17,920 --> 03:23:20,640
Speaker 1: made that created some dynamics that were a struggle to

3798
03:23:20,680 --> 03:23:23,720
Speaker 1: to work through and navigate, but at the same time

3799
03:23:24,040 --> 03:23:27,080
Speaker 1: really added to a sense of a space that went

3800
03:23:27,240 --> 03:23:29,800
Speaker 1: beyond a single project, that went beyond a single vision,

3801
03:23:29,920 --> 03:23:33,960
Speaker 1: but that was horizontal, communal and open in a way

3802
03:23:34,280 --> 03:23:37,440
Speaker 1: that I had never experienced before and that I have

3803
03:23:37,680 --> 03:23:41,119
Speaker 1: yet to experience again. It definitely had an organic feel

3804
03:23:41,200 --> 03:23:45,000
Speaker 1: to it of of sort of people coming together, lending

3805
03:23:45,080 --> 03:23:48,600
Speaker 1: what skills they had, lending what resources they had across

3806
03:23:48,800 --> 03:23:52,959
Speaker 1: a variety of positions UM that may be broadly categorized

3807
03:23:53,000 --> 03:23:57,840
Speaker 1: on the left or or post left spectrum, a spectrum

3808
03:23:57,879 --> 03:24:02,280
Speaker 1: of folks with the spectrum of capacities of needs UM

3809
03:24:02,879 --> 03:24:05,440
Speaker 1: I mean a large number of unhoused neighbors who were

3810
03:24:05,480 --> 03:24:09,240
Speaker 1: there who brought their own life experiences and their own

3811
03:24:09,320 --> 03:24:12,240
Speaker 1: knowledge and their own skills to bear on the project,

3812
03:24:12,280 --> 03:24:14,840
Speaker 1: which I think was a really, I guess, a powerful

3813
03:24:14,920 --> 03:24:17,560
Speaker 1: learning opportunity for a lot of people who hadn't really

3814
03:24:17,600 --> 03:24:21,760
Speaker 1: been in direct contact with unhoused folks um and who

3815
03:24:22,720 --> 03:24:27,640
Speaker 1: were unfamiliar with really perhaps the impetus beyond Occupy Oakland,

3816
03:24:27,680 --> 03:24:30,400
Speaker 1: and beyond occupy the impetus behind Occupy Oakland, and the

3817
03:24:30,440 --> 03:24:33,560
Speaker 1: impetus behind occupy Wall Street in general, which was of

3818
03:24:33,640 --> 03:24:35,640
Speaker 1: course the two thousand and eight financial crash and the

3819
03:24:35,680 --> 03:24:38,520
Speaker 1: Great Depression and the bailout of the banks while people

3820
03:24:38,600 --> 03:24:41,000
Speaker 1: got fore clothes on their homes, especially people of color

3821
03:24:41,080 --> 03:24:44,320
Speaker 1: and black folks, which which hit particularly hard in Oakland.

3822
03:24:44,440 --> 03:24:46,680
Speaker 1: And so we see all these dynamics coming together and

3823
03:24:46,720 --> 03:24:49,520
Speaker 1: trying to work themselves out organically without being mediated by

3824
03:24:49,560 --> 03:24:53,560
Speaker 1: any one organization or any particular ideology. And it was

3825
03:24:53,600 --> 03:24:59,120
Speaker 1: a powerful, confusing, messy, lively, beautiful experience. How to categorize

3826
03:24:59,120 --> 03:25:02,200
Speaker 1: as general assemb it is a great question, I think

3827
03:25:02,440 --> 03:25:05,400
Speaker 1: for me, how I interpreted it is it added a

3828
03:25:05,520 --> 03:25:10,800
Speaker 1: structural framework for how to navigate issues that would arise

3829
03:25:10,879 --> 03:25:13,680
Speaker 1: within the camp, within the sort of occupation. For lack

3830
03:25:13,720 --> 03:25:16,600
Speaker 1: of a better word of Oscar Grand Plaza, facilitating the

3831
03:25:16,720 --> 03:25:20,160
Speaker 1: day to day functionings of things. In a lot of ways,

3832
03:25:20,320 --> 03:25:23,200
Speaker 1: was a decision making body. I wouldn't call it a

3833
03:25:23,280 --> 03:25:27,039
Speaker 1: government as such, because it tried to run on consensus

3834
03:25:27,200 --> 03:25:31,560
Speaker 1: or modified consensus, and anyone was free to bring proposals

3835
03:25:31,680 --> 03:25:34,680
Speaker 1: to the General Assembly that were free to bring their

3836
03:25:34,800 --> 03:25:37,800
Speaker 1: ideas for and promote their events and promote their actions

3837
03:25:37,840 --> 03:25:40,960
Speaker 1: and activities. A lot of decisions were also being made

3838
03:25:41,120 --> 03:25:42,880
Speaker 1: by people who just showed up to do the work

3839
03:25:42,959 --> 03:25:46,560
Speaker 1: without necessarily consulting the General Assembly, So you almost had

3840
03:25:46,760 --> 03:25:50,240
Speaker 1: different tiers of activity and different tiers of organization occurring

3841
03:25:50,280 --> 03:25:53,640
Speaker 1: in the same space. That seemed, again I go back

3842
03:25:53,680 --> 03:25:56,080
Speaker 1: to this word, that seemed to organically work itself out

3843
03:25:56,160 --> 03:25:59,240
Speaker 1: most of the time, and within the General Assembly that

3844
03:25:59,360 --> 03:26:02,640
Speaker 1: was the more formal structure where people came together at

3845
03:26:02,720 --> 03:26:08,400
Speaker 1: times nightly to discuss issues facing the camp, to discuss

3846
03:26:08,480 --> 03:26:12,240
Speaker 1: issues with in terms of um dealing with the police

3847
03:26:12,320 --> 03:26:14,720
Speaker 1: and the city government and eventually the state and federal

3848
03:26:14,800 --> 03:26:17,160
Speaker 1: government as they showed up to determine how to respond

3849
03:26:17,200 --> 03:26:19,400
Speaker 1: to various acts of aggression and attacks on the camp

3850
03:26:19,480 --> 03:26:21,760
Speaker 1: and attacks on the space, to figure out how to

3851
03:26:21,840 --> 03:26:23,560
Speaker 1: better run the space. Even to figure out how to

3852
03:26:23,600 --> 03:26:26,119
Speaker 1: better run the General Assembly itself was a big question

3853
03:26:26,240 --> 03:26:31,320
Speaker 1: within the General Assembly. And these were general assemblies that

3854
03:26:31,400 --> 03:26:34,920
Speaker 1: anyone could participate and you didn't have to show qualifications

3855
03:26:35,200 --> 03:26:38,640
Speaker 1: or necessarily be living in the space. Anyone was free

3856
03:26:38,720 --> 03:26:41,440
Speaker 1: except for the police and politicians um to come and

3857
03:26:41,600 --> 03:26:45,000
Speaker 1: speak to the General Assembly. I remember one time gene Quon,

3858
03:26:45,360 --> 03:26:47,680
Speaker 1: then mayor of Oakland, wanted to come and speak to

3859
03:26:47,720 --> 03:26:49,640
Speaker 1: the General Assembly, and she was told she could, but

3860
03:26:49,720 --> 03:26:52,080
Speaker 1: she had to wait her turn, and so she decided

3861
03:26:52,120 --> 03:26:53,959
Speaker 1: to leave because she didn't want to wait. She didn't

3862
03:26:53,959 --> 03:26:56,080
Speaker 1: feel like she had to wait. It was really a

3863
03:26:56,120 --> 03:26:59,080
Speaker 1: space of encounter for people to bring up different aspects

3864
03:26:59,080 --> 03:27:01,120
Speaker 1: that there were concerned in them, that they were working on,

3865
03:27:01,280 --> 03:27:03,360
Speaker 1: that they wanted to see flourish in the space. The

3866
03:27:03,560 --> 03:27:07,040
Speaker 1: biggest general Assembly was happened around when to move forward

3867
03:27:07,080 --> 03:27:09,840
Speaker 1: with the general strike, but there were also general assemblies

3868
03:27:09,920 --> 03:27:13,039
Speaker 1: on on things like issues around smoking and people's health

3869
03:27:13,080 --> 03:27:15,840
Speaker 1: and well being in the space, issues around cleanliness, issues

3870
03:27:15,879 --> 03:27:18,440
Speaker 1: around safety, how to interact with the police, how to

3871
03:27:18,480 --> 03:27:21,680
Speaker 1: interact with the government, do we put forward demands? What

3872
03:27:21,760 --> 03:27:24,080
Speaker 1: should the name of it be? Is occupied Oakland? The

3873
03:27:24,160 --> 03:27:27,359
Speaker 1: problematic name. Should we change it to occupied to colonize Oakland?

3874
03:27:27,560 --> 03:27:30,040
Speaker 1: These were all sorts of issues that were brought forward

3875
03:27:30,080 --> 03:27:31,960
Speaker 1: to the General Assembly, along with like how do we

3876
03:27:32,040 --> 03:27:34,560
Speaker 1: meet the material needs of the space, and how do

3877
03:27:34,640 --> 03:27:37,280
Speaker 1: we handle the supplies that are being brought in and

3878
03:27:37,400 --> 03:27:40,360
Speaker 1: make sure that they're equally equitably distributed. Who can do

3879
03:27:40,520 --> 03:27:43,760
Speaker 1: what for whom within the space? How do people skills

3880
03:27:43,879 --> 03:27:46,280
Speaker 1: get the most use out of them. It was a

3881
03:27:46,920 --> 03:27:50,400
Speaker 1: very much a lively atmosphere. It felt like, I don't know,

3882
03:27:50,520 --> 03:27:53,360
Speaker 1: I I know the word democracy is contentious. It felt

3883
03:27:53,400 --> 03:27:56,400
Speaker 1: like a directly democratic process um. But there were also

3884
03:27:57,200 --> 03:27:59,280
Speaker 1: you know, it's important to recognize that there were some

3885
03:27:59,360 --> 03:28:02,560
Speaker 1: people who were more skilled and more familiar with how

3886
03:28:02,760 --> 03:28:06,120
Speaker 1: consensus works, who are more familiar with the process that

3887
03:28:06,280 --> 03:28:09,960
Speaker 1: was behind the running of the General Assembly, which which

3888
03:28:10,000 --> 03:28:12,480
Speaker 1: has its roots and anarchist practice and anarchist forms of

3889
03:28:12,520 --> 03:28:16,080
Speaker 1: decision making, and so those folks definitely had a hand

3890
03:28:16,160 --> 03:28:18,600
Speaker 1: up when it came to making decisions, when it came

3891
03:28:18,640 --> 03:28:22,200
Speaker 1: to presenting proposals, when it came to even administering and

3892
03:28:22,480 --> 03:28:25,959
Speaker 1: running the General Assembly itself, those tasks often fell into

3893
03:28:26,000 --> 03:28:28,240
Speaker 1: the lapse of anarchists who I think did a good

3894
03:28:28,320 --> 03:28:31,840
Speaker 1: job of making sure that these general assemblies ran smoothly

3895
03:28:32,080 --> 03:28:34,240
Speaker 1: and that they were inclusive and open to all who

3896
03:28:34,320 --> 03:28:37,280
Speaker 1: wanted to participate, and people could bring their ideas, and

3897
03:28:37,360 --> 03:28:40,400
Speaker 1: sometimes they got approved, sometimes they got rejected. Even if

3898
03:28:40,440 --> 03:28:43,280
Speaker 1: they got rejected, some some folks decided they would implement

3899
03:28:43,360 --> 03:28:46,760
Speaker 1: them anyways, and and that also worked out as well

3900
03:28:46,800 --> 03:28:50,640
Speaker 1: as sometimes creating conflict. The city grew increasingly frustrated with

3901
03:28:50,720 --> 03:28:54,320
Speaker 1: the encampment as they were they found themselves unable to

3902
03:28:54,400 --> 03:28:57,440
Speaker 1: make any progress in trying to recuperate, in trying to

3903
03:28:58,080 --> 03:29:01,760
Speaker 1: gain favor sort of the encampment their own and extension

3904
03:29:01,800 --> 03:29:05,720
Speaker 1: of the electoral body, right of the electoral body politic. Ultimately,

3905
03:29:05,879 --> 03:29:09,760
Speaker 1: that's what moved Kwan, the supposedly progressive mayor, more to

3906
03:29:09,879 --> 03:29:12,320
Speaker 1: the side of the police way of seeing things as

3907
03:29:12,720 --> 03:29:14,879
Speaker 1: force was the only option to deal with these people

3908
03:29:14,959 --> 03:29:18,160
Speaker 1: who are you know, being unrealistic, were being naive, who

3909
03:29:18,200 --> 03:29:21,560
Speaker 1: are being entranched in and transigent, and you know, at

3910
03:29:21,600 --> 03:29:23,960
Speaker 1: the same time, the police along with the city eventually

3911
03:29:24,000 --> 03:29:26,040
Speaker 1: started building up this narrative of the camp as a

3912
03:29:26,160 --> 03:29:28,880
Speaker 1: violent and unsafe space where people are being harmed in

3913
03:29:28,920 --> 03:29:32,440
Speaker 1: a variety of ways. And it was necessary for for

3914
03:29:32,600 --> 03:29:35,680
Speaker 1: public safety's sake to move against the encampment. I was

3915
03:29:35,800 --> 03:29:38,480
Speaker 1: there the night the encampment was evicted. I think it

3916
03:29:38,600 --> 03:29:43,000
Speaker 1: was October or early morning October twenty five, around three

3917
03:29:43,000 --> 03:29:45,440
Speaker 1: am in the morning, three thirty four am, and I

3918
03:29:45,600 --> 03:29:48,039
Speaker 1: was actually arrested. I was one of I believe eighty

3919
03:29:48,360 --> 03:29:52,360
Speaker 1: eight plus people were arrested. UM. During the process of

3920
03:29:52,400 --> 03:29:55,640
Speaker 1: the camps eviction, UM the police came in force. They

3921
03:29:55,760 --> 03:29:58,879
Speaker 1: massed up outside of Oracle Arena and the A Stadium.

3922
03:29:59,280 --> 03:30:01,680
Speaker 1: It was a massive operation. They came in from all sides.

3923
03:30:01,760 --> 03:30:04,880
Speaker 1: People upon hearing word that the camp was going to

3924
03:30:04,959 --> 03:30:10,039
Speaker 1: be evicted, UM set up barricades. They laced the entire

3925
03:30:10,120 --> 03:30:13,720
Speaker 1: area with string, trying to impede UM the possibility of

3926
03:30:13,760 --> 03:30:16,400
Speaker 1: the police getting injured. Quickly, there were battles with the

3927
03:30:16,440 --> 03:30:19,400
Speaker 1: police as they tried to make their way into the encampment,

3928
03:30:19,480 --> 03:30:22,320
Speaker 1: and eventually UM they came in from all sides and

3929
03:30:22,520 --> 03:30:25,360
Speaker 1: until they took over the encampment and encircled the people

3930
03:30:25,400 --> 03:30:27,920
Speaker 1: who remained in the camp. I was in jail when

3931
03:30:28,600 --> 03:30:32,720
Speaker 1: Scott Olsen was shot, but I do recall the prison

3932
03:30:32,800 --> 03:30:36,920
Speaker 1: guards or the Almeda County sheriffs who were making these

3933
03:30:36,959 --> 03:30:39,840
Speaker 1: comments as we were being released finally after about twenty

3934
03:30:39,879 --> 03:30:42,080
Speaker 1: four plus hours of being held, saying things like, oh,

3935
03:30:42,200 --> 03:30:44,200
Speaker 1: go have fun rioting and that sort of thing, and

3936
03:30:44,680 --> 03:30:46,320
Speaker 1: and we get out there and then hear about all

3937
03:30:46,320 --> 03:30:48,320
Speaker 1: the events that had happened over the course of the

3938
03:30:48,440 --> 03:30:50,240
Speaker 1: day that we had been locked up, of these people

3939
03:30:50,760 --> 03:30:53,360
Speaker 1: of folks in the thousands, just like you said, coming

3940
03:30:53,400 --> 03:30:55,720
Speaker 1: out to try and retake the space of running battles

3941
03:30:55,760 --> 03:30:58,000
Speaker 1: in the streets. I have so many friends and comrades

3942
03:30:58,000 --> 03:31:00,440
Speaker 1: who were telling stories about getting tear gassed, geting shot

3943
03:31:00,480 --> 03:31:03,880
Speaker 1: at with pepper balls, of Scott Wilson's devastating injury of

3944
03:31:03,959 --> 03:31:06,840
Speaker 1: getting shot in the head. It was violence that occurred

3945
03:31:06,879 --> 03:31:09,640
Speaker 1: outside the normal narrative of violence deployed by the police

3946
03:31:10,200 --> 03:31:12,920
Speaker 1: in Oakland, right, and so it made it exceptional, even

3947
03:31:12,959 --> 03:31:15,800
Speaker 1: though much more brutal violence occurs daily by the police

3948
03:31:15,840 --> 03:31:19,279
Speaker 1: in Oakland against primary the black black population in Oakland

3949
03:31:19,440 --> 03:31:22,360
Speaker 1: and and other people of color um. But we see

3950
03:31:23,280 --> 03:31:26,240
Speaker 1: a huge upswelling of outrage at the rate of the

3951
03:31:26,400 --> 03:31:30,440
Speaker 1: camp Um, outrage at the injury against Scott Wilson, and

3952
03:31:31,160 --> 03:31:35,480
Speaker 1: this ultimately the attempt to use force to quash a

3953
03:31:35,560 --> 03:31:39,680
Speaker 1: movement tremendously backfired against both the police and the city

3954
03:31:39,760 --> 03:31:42,280
Speaker 1: government in terms in terms of it building up even

3955
03:31:42,360 --> 03:31:45,920
Speaker 1: more support for Occupy Oakland and its efforts. I recall

3956
03:31:46,400 --> 03:31:50,000
Speaker 1: going to the General Assembly when the general strike was

3957
03:31:50,080 --> 03:31:52,560
Speaker 1: decided to be moved forward, when the proposal was made

3958
03:31:52,600 --> 03:31:54,960
Speaker 1: to have a general strike in a week, which was

3959
03:31:55,120 --> 03:31:59,720
Speaker 1: just seemed like a completely impossible notion and completely impractical,

3960
03:32:00,200 --> 03:32:03,560
Speaker 1: but also within the realm of the possible at the

3961
03:32:03,600 --> 03:32:06,400
Speaker 1: same time, because what had been going on, especially the

3962
03:32:06,640 --> 03:32:09,800
Speaker 1: response to people in terms of fighting against the police,

3963
03:32:09,800 --> 03:32:13,160
Speaker 1: in terms of taking back namcmon of basically winning against

3964
03:32:13,200 --> 03:32:16,959
Speaker 1: the government, winning against the police forces, reclaiming this space,

3965
03:32:17,480 --> 03:32:21,080
Speaker 1: um taking injuries, supporting one another through that process, it

3966
03:32:21,160 --> 03:32:23,440
Speaker 1: seems possible that we could pull up a general strike

3967
03:32:23,520 --> 03:32:26,080
Speaker 1: within a week. When it came around, it was clear

3968
03:32:26,200 --> 03:32:29,160
Speaker 1: that the word had been spread, that that energy that

3969
03:32:29,320 --> 03:32:31,840
Speaker 1: brought on that impulse to move forward with the general

3970
03:32:31,920 --> 03:32:34,480
Speaker 1: strike was still there a week later, and I would

3971
03:32:34,520 --> 03:32:37,560
Speaker 1: say that that day itself was a tremendous success. We

3972
03:32:37,640 --> 03:32:40,440
Speaker 1: had a hundred thousand people marching on the Port of Oakland,

3973
03:32:40,720 --> 03:32:43,560
Speaker 1: shutting it down. We had a day's worth of activities,

3974
03:32:43,840 --> 03:32:46,680
Speaker 1: everything that encapsulated Occupy Oakland. I feel like I found

3975
03:32:46,720 --> 03:32:51,039
Speaker 1: a home UM in particular on that day on November two. Again,

3976
03:32:51,120 --> 03:32:54,440
Speaker 1: we've been listening to Scott Campbell. Next we'll hear from Tova,

3977
03:32:54,520 --> 03:32:58,040
Speaker 1: who was involved in the Labor Solidarity Committee of Occupy Oakland,

3978
03:32:58,560 --> 03:33:01,560
Speaker 1: which worked to bring in labor unions into the organizing

3979
03:33:01,720 --> 03:33:04,840
Speaker 1: of the general strike. There were just masses of people

3980
03:33:04,920 --> 03:33:08,119
Speaker 1: down there at Oscar Career, at Plaza. Some of them

3981
03:33:08,240 --> 03:33:14,480
Speaker 1: were working on maintaining or re re establishing the different

3982
03:33:14,760 --> 03:33:17,480
Speaker 1: services that they had set up. I had been involved

3983
03:33:17,520 --> 03:33:22,240
Speaker 1: in labor struggles in the past back in Detroit when

3984
03:33:22,280 --> 03:33:25,520
Speaker 1: I was in the u a w. SO UM volunteered

3985
03:33:25,560 --> 03:33:30,720
Speaker 1: to work on the Labor Solidarity Committee to do the

3986
03:33:30,800 --> 03:33:36,800
Speaker 1: outreach to get support and participation of various unions, teamsters

3987
03:33:36,840 --> 03:33:40,040
Speaker 1: who played a very big role in in support UM

3988
03:33:40,280 --> 03:33:43,360
Speaker 1: for that general strike as well. And that I think

3989
03:33:43,520 --> 03:33:47,000
Speaker 1: it's the o e A, the Oakland Education Association as

3990
03:33:47,040 --> 03:33:50,240
Speaker 1: a teachers union, and they were very much involved in

3991
03:33:50,320 --> 03:33:53,560
Speaker 1: So was the s c IU, particularly the sci U,

3992
03:33:53,760 --> 03:33:56,720
Speaker 1: the City Workers, So the city workers were down there

3993
03:33:56,760 --> 03:34:00,040
Speaker 1: every day and saw what was going on. UM, and

3994
03:34:00,280 --> 03:34:02,960
Speaker 1: we're you know, very much involved and affected by it.

3995
03:34:03,600 --> 03:34:06,720
Speaker 1: You know, the teachers Union had, like you said, been

3996
03:34:06,760 --> 03:34:11,680
Speaker 1: involved with in support work before all the attacks by

3997
03:34:11,720 --> 03:34:15,359
Speaker 1: the police happened. UH. There was a lot of involvement

3998
03:34:15,560 --> 03:34:19,280
Speaker 1: beforehand as well, UM one or two Teamsters locals that

3999
03:34:19,879 --> 03:34:23,160
Speaker 1: were you know, supporting officially. They you know, it wasn't

4000
03:34:23,360 --> 03:34:26,840
Speaker 1: just their rank and file members, which had been great also,

4001
03:34:27,000 --> 03:34:29,440
Speaker 1: but you know, the we had support from one or

4002
03:34:29,480 --> 03:34:34,440
Speaker 1: two Teamsters locals and the i LW is primarily Local ten.

4003
03:34:35,160 --> 03:34:39,400
Speaker 1: The longshoreman whole proposal was to march down to the

4004
03:34:39,640 --> 03:34:42,920
Speaker 1: port UH and shut down the Port of Oakland. We

4005
03:34:43,080 --> 03:34:48,000
Speaker 1: had people involved from my LW. You although I'm pretty

4006
03:34:48,040 --> 03:34:52,600
Speaker 1: sure that the i LW Local ten officially was not

4007
03:34:52,879 --> 03:34:56,520
Speaker 1: involved in calling for that strike, but there were members

4008
03:34:56,959 --> 03:35:01,680
Speaker 1: who were involved in the i LW organization who were

4009
03:35:01,720 --> 03:35:06,280
Speaker 1: definitely involved in helping to plant and organize it as well.

4010
03:35:06,720 --> 03:35:11,040
Speaker 1: The Teamsters added some logistical support in terms of trucking

4011
03:35:11,560 --> 03:35:14,760
Speaker 1: and supplies and things like that. I think that the

4012
03:35:14,879 --> 03:35:18,680
Speaker 1: o e A the teachers also in addition to participation,

4013
03:35:19,280 --> 03:35:22,160
Speaker 1: donated supplies and things like that. So there was a

4014
03:35:22,240 --> 03:35:26,920
Speaker 1: lot of donations from the locals as well. We've been

4015
03:35:26,959 --> 03:35:30,920
Speaker 1: listening to Tova from the Occupy Oakland Labor Solidarity Committee,

4016
03:35:31,040 --> 03:35:32,800
Speaker 1: We're now going to take a short break and be

4017
03:35:32,959 --> 03:35:37,880
Speaker 1: right back. As the Oakland Commune and the Occupy movement

4018
03:35:38,040 --> 03:35:41,280
Speaker 1: faded into history, it helped inspire and inform a new

4019
03:35:41,360 --> 03:35:45,640
Speaker 1: generation of activists. As under Obama, we saw continued explosions

4020
03:35:45,680 --> 03:35:50,760
Speaker 1: in Ferguson, Baltimore, Minneapolis, and later at Standing Rock. By

4021
03:35:50,800 --> 03:35:54,360
Speaker 1: the time that Trump took office, autonomous resistance movements were

4022
03:35:54,400 --> 03:35:58,320
Speaker 1: bubbling beneath every surface. As airports were shut down against

4023
03:35:58,360 --> 03:36:01,480
Speaker 1: the Musli band, r It's broke out against the ault right,

4024
03:36:02,080 --> 03:36:06,320
Speaker 1: and thousands of teachers started striking across Appalachia. Donny Red,

4025
03:36:06,360 --> 03:36:09,560
Speaker 1: Ben Dennis and omage of the so called Redneck War

4026
03:36:09,640 --> 03:36:14,360
Speaker 1: of when striking coal miners engaged in grilla warfare with

4027
03:36:14,440 --> 03:36:18,680
Speaker 1: government troops and the Air Force dropped actual bombs on strikers.

4028
03:36:19,720 --> 03:36:22,720
Speaker 1: With the current uptick and strikes under Biden continuing into

4029
03:36:24,400 --> 03:36:28,120
Speaker 1: and the economic conditions of porn working people continuing to worsen,

4030
03:36:28,879 --> 03:36:31,600
Speaker 1: we asked labor reporter and author A Fight Like Hell,

4031
03:36:31,840 --> 03:36:35,520
Speaker 1: Kim Kelly, just what are the possibilities of mass strike

4032
03:36:35,600 --> 03:36:38,960
Speaker 1: action in the coming year? You know, I think we're

4033
03:36:38,959 --> 03:36:44,120
Speaker 1: in this really interesting moment where labor and workers and

4034
03:36:44,360 --> 03:36:47,240
Speaker 1: unions in general are getting a lot more attention than

4035
03:36:47,320 --> 03:36:49,840
Speaker 1: we're used to, and a lot of that attention is positive,

4036
03:36:49,920 --> 03:36:51,520
Speaker 1: and we have a lot of these big wins that

4037
03:36:51,600 --> 03:36:54,520
Speaker 1: we get to celebrate. We get to celebrate, you know,

4038
03:36:54,680 --> 03:36:58,680
Speaker 1: the workers at Staten Island, Amazon go on toe to

4039
03:36:58,720 --> 03:37:01,120
Speaker 1: toe of Jeff Bezos and the un election winning. We

4040
03:37:01,200 --> 03:37:07,160
Speaker 1: get to celebrate this ongoing wave of unionization efforts at

4041
03:37:07,280 --> 03:37:10,720
Speaker 1: Starbucks across the country, hundreds of Starbucks and unionized. We

4042
03:37:10,800 --> 03:37:14,039
Speaker 1: get to celebrate a lot of big wins. And they

4043
03:37:14,080 --> 03:37:16,959
Speaker 1: are also a lot of struggles that have been kind

4044
03:37:17,000 --> 03:37:19,240
Speaker 1: of set to this side, or not gotten as much

4045
03:37:19,240 --> 03:37:22,360
Speaker 1: attention as they deserve, or kind of written off. I

4046
03:37:22,400 --> 03:37:25,600
Speaker 1: think that's always the dichotomy of the labor movement in general,

4047
03:37:25,680 --> 03:37:28,680
Speaker 1: right because it's so big almost everyone is a part

4048
03:37:28,720 --> 03:37:30,240
Speaker 1: of it, whether or not they like to think of

4049
03:37:30,280 --> 03:37:32,840
Speaker 1: themselves that way. You know, I've been covering this coal

4050
03:37:32,920 --> 03:37:38,080
Speaker 1: minor strike in Alabama since April one. They're still out there.

4051
03:37:38,600 --> 03:37:41,280
Speaker 1: They have not gotten very much attention. They're kind of

4052
03:37:42,120 --> 03:37:44,720
Speaker 1: stuck in a stalemate at the bargaining table because the

4053
03:37:44,760 --> 03:37:47,040
Speaker 1: bosses want to starve them out. And this is Alabama,

4054
03:37:47,280 --> 03:37:50,880
Speaker 1: where workers in or outside the prison walls do not

4055
03:37:51,000 --> 03:37:53,800
Speaker 1: have very many rights, do not have any politicians on

4056
03:37:53,879 --> 03:37:56,960
Speaker 1: their side. They're struggling and they're still out there. And

4057
03:37:57,040 --> 03:38:01,119
Speaker 1: that's kind of the flip side of these big, energetic,

4058
03:38:01,280 --> 03:38:05,039
Speaker 1: inspiring moments in labor right where we have these winds,

4059
03:38:05,400 --> 03:38:06,960
Speaker 1: and we also have folks that are being left a

4060
03:38:07,040 --> 03:38:10,640
Speaker 1: slog or being ignored entirely, like the folks that we're

4061
03:38:10,640 --> 03:38:13,760
Speaker 1: going to see very soon in Pennsylvania who are going

4062
03:38:13,800 --> 03:38:17,200
Speaker 1: to be launching a strike and side the Department of Corrections.

4063
03:38:17,680 --> 03:38:19,680
Speaker 1: I hope that gets a lot of attention. I mean,

4064
03:38:19,800 --> 03:38:22,600
Speaker 1: we saw a similar effort by a carce rated workers

4065
03:38:22,640 --> 03:38:24,960
Speaker 1: in Alabama a couple of months ago, and that got

4066
03:38:25,000 --> 03:38:27,360
Speaker 1: a lot of attention. And I'm really hoping that this

4067
03:38:27,480 --> 03:38:29,880
Speaker 1: kind of renewed interest in labor and workers rights and

4068
03:38:29,920 --> 03:38:35,240
Speaker 1: then discussing even topics like prison slavery, in topics like

4069
03:38:35,400 --> 03:38:38,800
Speaker 1: forced labor, incarcerated work, and different types of work. I

4070
03:38:38,920 --> 03:38:41,200
Speaker 1: really hope that benefits these workers as they embark on

4071
03:38:41,320 --> 03:38:46,360
Speaker 1: their action. But we'll see, you know, like I am

4072
03:38:46,480 --> 03:38:49,680
Speaker 1: very interested to see perhaps the limits of this public

4073
03:38:49,760 --> 03:38:53,360
Speaker 1: support for labor actions. Is it easier to support a

4074
03:38:53,440 --> 03:38:55,720
Speaker 1: barista than it is to support a coal miner and

4075
03:38:55,760 --> 03:39:00,440
Speaker 1: incarcerated worker. There's all these different pieces that go into

4076
03:39:00,480 --> 03:39:04,080
Speaker 1: this moment. And I love being possy. I love seeing

4077
03:39:04,160 --> 03:39:08,080
Speaker 1: workers win and workers organized and strike and protest, and

4078
03:39:08,760 --> 03:39:11,360
Speaker 1: I also like keeping an eye out for the folks

4079
03:39:11,400 --> 03:39:13,800
Speaker 1: who aren't getting as much intention and aren' getting as

4080
03:39:13,879 --> 03:39:16,280
Speaker 1: much support and thinking about why that is. So it's

4081
03:39:16,320 --> 03:39:18,840
Speaker 1: kind of a long, rambly answer to say, I am

4082
03:39:18,959 --> 03:39:22,840
Speaker 1: cautiously optimistic, and I really hope that all of the

4083
03:39:22,920 --> 03:39:27,240
Speaker 1: people who have thankfully and you know, I'm I'm glad

4084
03:39:27,280 --> 03:39:29,520
Speaker 1: they're here, who have showed up in the past year

4085
03:39:29,600 --> 03:39:33,760
Speaker 1: in the media, the political class, whoever, regularly, regular people

4086
03:39:33,840 --> 03:39:36,360
Speaker 1: who have been paying attention to these these worker actions.

4087
03:39:36,760 --> 03:39:39,120
Speaker 1: I hope they keep that energy for this year, because

4088
03:39:39,160 --> 03:39:42,640
Speaker 1: we're going to need it, you know. Started we we've

4089
03:39:42,680 --> 03:39:46,240
Speaker 1: had a pretty good We're in a decent spot, and

4090
03:39:46,320 --> 03:39:49,240
Speaker 1: I really don't want to see a squander that. See.

4091
03:39:49,280 --> 03:39:52,000
Speaker 1: I think this moment with the Wildroad workers, I think

4092
03:39:52,360 --> 03:39:55,080
Speaker 1: that is something that's going to continue to resonate and

4093
03:39:55,240 --> 03:39:58,039
Speaker 1: reverberate out and I think that's going to have an

4094
03:39:58,080 --> 03:40:00,720
Speaker 1: impact the next time the Democratic part he says, hey,

4095
03:40:01,320 --> 03:40:04,160
Speaker 1: where the workers party like, you need to come vote

4096
03:40:04,200 --> 03:40:06,119
Speaker 1: for us and keep us in power, because well, we're

4097
03:40:06,160 --> 03:40:10,040
Speaker 1: the only ones who will protect you. Well will you

4098
03:40:10,520 --> 03:40:12,560
Speaker 1: did you? Were you there for us when we needed

4099
03:40:12,600 --> 03:40:15,680
Speaker 1: you or when we needed your help? No? You know,

4100
03:40:17,000 --> 03:40:20,640
Speaker 1: it just makes one wonder how much of the pro

4101
03:40:20,879 --> 03:40:26,200
Speaker 1: union uh sloganeering that that this administration loves to do,

4102
03:40:26,720 --> 03:40:29,760
Speaker 1: how much of it is pure public relations, how much

4103
03:40:29,800 --> 03:40:33,720
Speaker 1: of it is actually attached to whatever personal beliefs that

4104
03:40:34,000 --> 03:40:37,920
Speaker 1: Biden has, or if they just think it's politically expedient

4105
03:40:38,040 --> 03:40:41,400
Speaker 1: to you know, act as though where the we're pro union,

4106
03:40:41,440 --> 03:40:43,440
Speaker 1: we're pro worker, we're not going to pass any laws,

4107
03:40:43,680 --> 03:40:46,160
Speaker 1: we're not going to investigate any worker death at Amazon

4108
03:40:46,240 --> 03:40:49,080
Speaker 1: facilities are elsewhere, we're not going to use our power

4109
03:40:49,120 --> 03:40:52,720
Speaker 1: to help you. But we're not Republicans, So you know,

4110
03:40:54,160 --> 03:40:57,080
Speaker 1: it's um. I think it's going to be interesting to

4111
03:40:57,280 --> 03:41:01,480
Speaker 1: see how much the real words strike impacts people, because

4112
03:41:01,520 --> 03:41:05,360
Speaker 1: I think that the political calculus that the Biden administration

4113
03:41:05,520 --> 03:41:10,120
Speaker 1: did in choosing to crush the strike inside with the

4114
03:41:10,400 --> 03:41:13,120
Speaker 1: railroad bosses, I guess they figured, oh, well, it's not

4115
03:41:13,240 --> 03:41:14,920
Speaker 1: that big of a deal. Maybe not that many people

4116
03:41:14,959 --> 03:41:16,920
Speaker 1: are paying attention. We've got to make sure people get

4117
03:41:16,959 --> 03:41:20,000
Speaker 1: their Christmas presents on time. But a lot of folks

4118
03:41:20,040 --> 03:41:23,039
Speaker 1: were watching that. A lot of regular workers were watching

4119
03:41:23,080 --> 03:41:25,480
Speaker 1: that and thinking, oh so, if we were in that

4120
03:41:25,600 --> 03:41:28,200
Speaker 1: position at my job, the government would help us either.

4121
03:41:28,879 --> 03:41:31,040
Speaker 1: I think, you know, a lot of the chatter I

4122
03:41:31,160 --> 03:41:33,840
Speaker 1: saw from railroad workers, from other workers, just from people

4123
03:41:33,879 --> 03:41:37,520
Speaker 1: in generals like, oh so, okay, this was the big

4124
03:41:37,640 --> 03:41:41,120
Speaker 1: moment where Biden could have proved he cared about us,

4125
03:41:41,200 --> 03:41:43,880
Speaker 1: and instead he threw us under the bus straight onto

4126
03:41:43,879 --> 03:41:47,680
Speaker 1: the railroad tracks. And I don't think that's a surprise

4127
03:41:47,879 --> 03:41:50,920
Speaker 1: to people that are sort of paying more close attention

4128
03:41:50,959 --> 03:41:53,120
Speaker 1: to the way the state operates. But I think it

4129
03:41:53,240 --> 03:41:55,840
Speaker 1: was maybe a revelatory moment for folks who just sort

4130
03:41:55,879 --> 03:41:58,320
Speaker 1: of assumed, okay, like there's at least a little bit

4131
03:41:58,360 --> 03:42:01,280
Speaker 1: of benevolence at least, you know, democrats are in power.

4132
03:42:01,400 --> 03:42:03,840
Speaker 1: This guy says, hells unions, that should help us out

4133
03:42:03,840 --> 03:42:06,640
Speaker 1: a little bit. But seeing what happened there, I think

4134
03:42:06,720 --> 03:42:09,160
Speaker 1: it's going to be a profoundly disillusioning moment for a

4135
03:42:09,240 --> 03:42:10,880
Speaker 1: lot of people that maybe had a little bit more

4136
03:42:10,959 --> 03:42:13,920
Speaker 1: faith in the state or at least assumed it was

4137
03:42:14,000 --> 03:42:16,360
Speaker 1: sort of looking out for us. And I think that's

4138
03:42:16,360 --> 03:42:19,560
Speaker 1: gonna have an impact when you know, the Democratic Party

4139
03:42:19,640 --> 03:42:23,000
Speaker 1: comes back knocking on our doors and mostly asking for

4140
03:42:23,080 --> 03:42:26,360
Speaker 1: a vote in our support, because I mean you, we

4141
03:42:26,520 --> 03:42:29,320
Speaker 1: had a classic which side are you on moment and

4142
03:42:29,560 --> 03:42:32,280
Speaker 1: we saw which way they chose to go. We're gonna

4143
03:42:32,400 --> 03:42:35,760
Speaker 1: see more prolonged strikes, We're going to see more unfair

4144
03:42:35,840 --> 03:42:38,280
Speaker 1: labor practices, are going to see more organizing. I think

4145
03:42:38,360 --> 03:42:41,800
Speaker 1: that it is impossible to put this lightning back into

4146
03:42:41,879 --> 03:42:45,080
Speaker 1: a bottle. Right Like, activity and interest in unions and

4147
03:42:45,280 --> 03:42:48,560
Speaker 1: organizing is, if not skyrocketing, it's had a really nice

4148
03:42:48,600 --> 03:42:52,279
Speaker 1: little bump over the past few years, a noticeable improvement

4149
03:42:52,400 --> 03:42:57,320
Speaker 1: and a noticeable amount of new worker workplaces being organized

4150
03:42:57,360 --> 03:42:59,440
Speaker 1: and going on strike and fighting for their rights. Like,

4151
03:42:59,520 --> 03:43:02,320
Speaker 1: I don't think that's going away. And two of the

4152
03:43:03,160 --> 03:43:08,360
Speaker 1: aspects of this, this entire scenario that really interests me. First,

4153
03:43:08,440 --> 03:43:11,000
Speaker 1: the fact that we're seeing so many workers who some

4154
03:43:11,160 --> 03:43:14,160
Speaker 1: my categories as quote unquote white collar whatever, folks who

4155
03:43:14,240 --> 03:43:18,440
Speaker 1: work in nonprofits or at book publishers or journalism, other

4156
03:43:18,560 --> 03:43:21,800
Speaker 1: types of media kind of all of these other types

4157
03:43:21,840 --> 03:43:24,640
Speaker 1: of jobs that don't fit into that traditional manufacturing or

4158
03:43:24,680 --> 03:43:30,160
Speaker 1: extractive focused many more manual labor oriented jobs that I

4159
03:43:30,240 --> 03:43:32,360
Speaker 1: think a lot of people associate with the labor movement.

4160
03:43:32,840 --> 03:43:35,520
Speaker 1: They've been going on strike and they've been making big waves,

4161
03:43:35,640 --> 03:43:38,320
Speaker 1: whether it's the forty eight thousand grad student workers at

4162
03:43:38,320 --> 03:43:43,640
Speaker 1: the University of California or harperk HarperCollins Publishing workers currently

4163
03:43:43,680 --> 03:43:45,959
Speaker 1: still on strike in New York City. I think there's

4164
03:43:46,000 --> 03:43:48,640
Speaker 1: been kind of the shift in understanding of oh, Okay,

4165
03:43:48,959 --> 03:43:50,960
Speaker 1: you don't need to be a certain type of worker,

4166
03:43:51,120 --> 03:43:53,280
Speaker 1: or certain type of person, or come from a specific

4167
03:43:53,360 --> 03:43:56,760
Speaker 1: background in order to organize to join a union. Unions

4168
03:43:56,800 --> 03:43:59,640
Speaker 1: aren't just for the classic white guy in a hard

4169
03:43:59,680 --> 03:44:02,520
Speaker 1: hatch like my dad, right like, they're accessible to so

4170
03:44:02,600 --> 03:44:05,760
Speaker 1: many more of us than perhaps we thought, And I

4171
03:44:05,840 --> 03:44:09,480
Speaker 1: think that's going to be big because the work has shifted.

4172
03:44:09,680 --> 03:44:11,959
Speaker 1: Work looks different than it did thirty years ago. There's

4173
03:44:11,959 --> 03:44:14,200
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways to be exploited, and we

4174
03:44:14,280 --> 03:44:17,480
Speaker 1: know the employers have definitely looked into each and everyone

4175
03:44:17,640 --> 03:44:20,879
Speaker 1: and taken notes, So we have that happening. I think

4176
03:44:20,920 --> 03:44:26,200
Speaker 1: that's gonna continue propelling the energy behind this movement. And secondly,

4177
03:44:26,520 --> 03:44:30,240
Speaker 1: I'm really intrigued by the rise, and that's it's a

4178
03:44:30,320 --> 03:44:33,520
Speaker 1: smaller phenomenon, but it is very much happening, and it

4179
03:44:33,680 --> 03:44:37,480
Speaker 1: is kind of increasing slowly the exist, this existence of

4180
03:44:37,600 --> 03:44:42,160
Speaker 1: independent unions, because we saw, of course the Amazon Labor Union.

4181
03:44:42,200 --> 03:44:44,680
Speaker 1: They're the big ones, They've gotten tons of attention, deservedly so.

4182
03:44:45,400 --> 03:44:49,240
Speaker 1: But there are also efforts Trader Joe's Trade Jo's United

4183
03:44:49,280 --> 03:44:52,960
Speaker 1: as an independent union. Chipotle workers formed an independent union.

4184
03:44:53,240 --> 03:44:56,880
Speaker 1: There was an effort here in Philadelphia to form a

4185
03:44:56,920 --> 03:45:00,760
Speaker 1: Home Depot workers independent union, and that one wasn't successful,

4186
03:45:00,840 --> 03:45:03,840
Speaker 1: but I'm certain that the organizer has not given up

4187
03:45:03,840 --> 03:45:05,640
Speaker 1: and they're still going to keep working on that. Like

4188
03:45:06,360 --> 03:45:08,920
Speaker 1: and I think seeing these independent unions which are not

4189
03:45:09,640 --> 03:45:12,320
Speaker 1: affiliated with other internationals, are not part of the fl

4190
03:45:12,360 --> 03:45:15,760
Speaker 1: C oh there literally just d I Y you know.

4191
03:45:15,959 --> 03:45:20,080
Speaker 1: Thence the fact that we're seeing this happen. I think

4192
03:45:20,120 --> 03:45:23,720
Speaker 1: it just shows the cracks in the current labor movements

4193
03:45:23,920 --> 03:45:27,360
Speaker 1: as it stands, and especially in the way that power

4194
03:45:27,760 --> 03:45:31,920
Speaker 1: is concentrated and the way that resources are organized, in

4195
03:45:31,959 --> 03:45:36,640
Speaker 1: the way that the movement's priorities in terms of public

4196
03:45:37,400 --> 03:45:41,720
Speaker 1: statements and political power are kind of dictated by folks

4197
03:45:41,760 --> 03:45:44,240
Speaker 1: who tend to be more conservative, and I mean that

4198
03:45:44,320 --> 03:45:46,160
Speaker 1: in like a Democrat way and not like you know,

4199
03:45:46,400 --> 03:45:50,600
Speaker 1: Republican chaos, but just more conservative compared to a lot

4200
03:45:50,640 --> 03:45:53,400
Speaker 1: of the rank and file, like we see with the

4201
03:45:53,560 --> 03:45:58,080
Speaker 1: railroad workers that rejected rejected that deal that so many

4202
03:45:58,120 --> 03:46:00,320
Speaker 1: of their leaders agreed on. You know, I think there's

4203
03:46:00,400 --> 03:46:02,920
Speaker 1: more radicalism brewing in the rank and file and more

4204
03:46:03,000 --> 03:46:06,840
Speaker 1: militancy that and it's it's manifesting in different ways. It's

4205
03:46:06,879 --> 03:46:10,360
Speaker 1: manifesting and wildcatch strikes or an independent unions, or in

4206
03:46:10,560 --> 03:46:13,920
Speaker 1: organizing outside of the traditional organized labor structure in general,

4207
03:46:14,120 --> 03:46:16,400
Speaker 1: like what sex workers and incarcerated workers are doing and

4208
03:46:16,480 --> 03:46:19,120
Speaker 1: have been doing. I think ultimately the bottom line is

4209
03:46:19,160 --> 03:46:21,200
Speaker 1: that a lot of workers, a lot of people have

4210
03:46:21,360 --> 03:46:26,840
Speaker 1: realized that they have options, and they're exercising their rights

4211
03:46:26,879 --> 03:46:30,400
Speaker 1: to organize and to work collectively and to stand with

4212
03:46:30,440 --> 03:46:33,520
Speaker 1: their fellow workers against the bosses and against capital in

4213
03:46:33,680 --> 03:46:37,160
Speaker 1: ways that you know, perhaps wouldn't have felt as available

4214
03:46:37,240 --> 03:46:39,840
Speaker 1: or seemed as possible a few years ago, but now

4215
03:46:40,200 --> 03:46:43,240
Speaker 1: there's so many examples of other workers doing it. Of

4216
03:46:43,320 --> 03:46:45,680
Speaker 1: course have been there throughout history too, like I read

4217
03:46:45,680 --> 03:46:48,320
Speaker 1: about my book, but I think we're at this moment

4218
03:46:48,400 --> 03:46:51,600
Speaker 1: where people realize, Okay, there are a lot of different

4219
03:46:51,640 --> 03:46:54,960
Speaker 1: ways to do this. I have people with me, we

4220
03:46:55,080 --> 03:46:58,520
Speaker 1: have problems we need to address. Let's see what works.

4221
03:46:59,080 --> 03:47:00,680
Speaker 1: You know, it's not just picking up the phone and

4222
03:47:00,720 --> 03:47:03,320
Speaker 1: calling a union organizer, though that works for some folks, too,

4223
03:47:04,240 --> 03:47:07,840
Speaker 1: is recognizing the problems we face in our workplace, in

4224
03:47:07,920 --> 03:47:11,160
Speaker 1: our experience, and deciding together what we want to do,

4225
03:47:11,560 --> 03:47:13,400
Speaker 1: how we want to go forward, and how we're going

4226
03:47:13,440 --> 03:47:16,960
Speaker 1: to win. Once again, that was Kim Kelly, author of

4227
03:47:17,280 --> 03:47:21,160
Speaker 1: Philight Hell. Over the past two episodes, we've taken a

4228
03:47:21,280 --> 03:47:24,160
Speaker 1: deep dive into the history of general strikes in the

4229
03:47:24,240 --> 03:47:27,600
Speaker 1: United States, looking at everything from the mass strike of

4230
03:47:27,720 --> 03:47:31,160
Speaker 1: Enslave plantation workers during the Civil War all the way

4231
03:47:31,240 --> 03:47:34,520
Speaker 1: up to current examples during Occupy Oakland. I think one

4232
03:47:34,600 --> 03:47:36,600
Speaker 1: of the things history has to offer us as a

4233
03:47:36,680 --> 03:47:39,600
Speaker 1: guide for the present is that these upheavals are made

4234
03:47:39,640 --> 03:47:43,920
Speaker 1: possible not only by people responding to material conditions, but

4235
03:47:44,040 --> 03:47:47,960
Speaker 1: also learning from struggle. In the instance of the Great Upheaval,

4236
03:47:48,520 --> 03:47:51,640
Speaker 1: that general strike came after a series of other smaller strikes.

4237
03:47:52,200 --> 03:47:56,360
Speaker 1: This fall, thousands of prisoners across Alabama organized a general

4238
03:47:56,400 --> 03:48:00,040
Speaker 1: strike of incarcerated workers, downing their tools and refusing to

4239
03:48:00,120 --> 03:48:03,560
Speaker 1: work their jobs, bringing the prisons to a grinding halt.

4240
03:48:04,040 --> 03:48:06,560
Speaker 1: This historic strike comes on the heels of many other

4241
03:48:06,680 --> 03:48:11,160
Speaker 1: prisoner led strike actions in two thousand ten, two thousand sixteen,

4242
03:48:11,720 --> 03:48:14,720
Speaker 1: in two thousand eighteen, not to mention the fact that

4243
03:48:14,840 --> 03:48:18,560
Speaker 1: many Alabama prisoners saw themselves as acting in the spirit

4244
03:48:18,640 --> 03:48:21,560
Speaker 1: of the Great Plantation Strike during the Civil War, as

4245
03:48:21,600 --> 03:48:25,040
Speaker 1: epitomized by the strike slogan let the crops rought in

4246
03:48:25,080 --> 03:48:28,960
Speaker 1: the field in my final thoughts, instead of putting our

4247
03:48:29,040 --> 03:48:31,840
Speaker 1: hopes in a call for a general strike going viral,

4248
03:48:32,120 --> 03:48:34,600
Speaker 1: as the same goes, we have to walk before we

4249
03:48:34,680 --> 03:48:37,840
Speaker 1: can run. So strengthening our ability to engage in collective

4250
03:48:37,879 --> 03:48:40,880
Speaker 1: direct action and active refusal, as well as building our

4251
03:48:40,920 --> 03:48:45,120
Speaker 1: capacity for community self defense and mobilizing against state violence

4252
03:48:45,160 --> 03:48:49,520
Speaker 1: and oppression and whatever form, will ultimately allow us to

4253
03:48:49,640 --> 03:48:52,840
Speaker 1: expand and grow our ability to do these things in

4254
03:48:52,959 --> 03:48:56,000
Speaker 1: the future. A lot of times we're told that like

4255
03:48:56,080 --> 03:48:58,720
Speaker 1: we're powerless and were these passive beings and creatures, and

4256
03:48:58,760 --> 03:49:00,640
Speaker 1: we have to wait for somebody to order anizes. But

4257
03:49:00,720 --> 03:49:02,240
Speaker 1: every single day we wake up in the morning and

4258
03:49:02,320 --> 03:49:04,880
Speaker 1: we make capitalism happen like we do it like all

4259
03:49:04,960 --> 03:49:06,920
Speaker 1: of us, every single one of us, does it like

4260
03:49:07,000 --> 03:49:09,840
Speaker 1: this is not like, oh, like this is just something

4261
03:49:09,920 --> 03:49:12,320
Speaker 1: that's happening to us, we're doing to ourselves. We're doing

4262
03:49:12,400 --> 03:49:14,320
Speaker 1: it to each other. Like these are little things that

4263
03:49:14,400 --> 03:49:16,480
Speaker 1: we can do, like little acts of resistance. And I'm

4264
03:49:16,480 --> 03:49:18,560
Speaker 1: all about petty resistance because I do realize that a

4265
03:49:18,640 --> 03:49:21,120
Speaker 1: lot of people don't have time for the large resistances.

4266
03:49:21,160 --> 03:49:23,920
Speaker 1: So this is for anybody who's like, yeah, I hate capitalism,

4267
03:49:24,040 --> 03:49:25,880
Speaker 1: but I just don't have the breath on the space

4268
03:49:25,920 --> 03:49:28,320
Speaker 1: and the time to necessarily like go out and do things.

4269
03:49:28,360 --> 03:49:30,160
Speaker 1: If you can't, please do it. You can't like walk

4270
03:49:30,200 --> 03:49:32,200
Speaker 1: the funk out do But if you can't, like there's

4271
03:49:32,200 --> 03:49:34,080
Speaker 1: still stuff you can do. That's it for me. By

4272
03:49:34,160 --> 03:49:38,600
Speaker 1: you know which strikes me often about general strikes are

4273
03:49:38,720 --> 03:49:43,600
Speaker 1: two things. First is that general strikes actually function very

4274
03:49:43,680 --> 03:49:47,120
Speaker 1: differently than they do in leftist discourse. Like in leftist

4275
03:49:47,160 --> 03:49:50,960
Speaker 1: discourse it's workers do general strikes. But in reality, if

4276
03:49:50,960 --> 03:49:54,560
Speaker 1: we really look at general strikes, there these moments of convergence. Right,

4277
03:49:54,600 --> 03:49:58,480
Speaker 1: there's these these sort of points in which distinctions break down, Right,

4278
03:49:58,560 --> 03:50:01,680
Speaker 1: the distinction between like organizers and everyone else, or the

4279
03:50:01,720 --> 03:50:05,000
Speaker 1: distinction between workers and non workers completely breakdown. Right, It's

4280
03:50:05,000 --> 03:50:07,640
Speaker 1: not just railroad workers don't strike in eighteen seventy seven,

4281
03:50:07,720 --> 03:50:10,840
Speaker 1: is also their families, their neighbors, their whole communities on strike.

4282
03:50:11,480 --> 03:50:15,120
Speaker 1: And this the second thing that that raises often for

4283
03:50:15,240 --> 03:50:18,600
Speaker 1: me is again this kind of long term cultural implications

4284
03:50:18,880 --> 03:50:21,800
Speaker 1: of that sort of form of action. So growing up

4285
03:50:21,800 --> 03:50:24,360
Speaker 1: in a place where you know, strike culture is a thing,

4286
03:50:25,240 --> 03:50:27,760
Speaker 1: um still where there's still actual union density and people

4287
03:50:27,800 --> 03:50:31,120
Speaker 1: do walk off the job. Um, you grow up with

4288
03:50:31,200 --> 03:50:34,400
Speaker 1: that as an idea, right that you don't just walk

4289
03:50:34,440 --> 03:50:36,480
Speaker 1: off the job, But like the restaurant around the corner

4290
03:50:36,560 --> 03:50:39,040
Speaker 1: also gives out free food, and people bring coffee down

4291
03:50:39,080 --> 03:50:41,880
Speaker 1: to the picket line, and you know, workers from other

4292
03:50:42,040 --> 03:50:44,480
Speaker 1: unions show up the block entrances because the judge said

4293
03:50:44,520 --> 03:50:46,600
Speaker 1: you can, you know, so on so on, and it

4294
03:50:46,720 --> 03:50:50,480
Speaker 1: becomes this huge community initiative of autonomy and self defense.

4295
03:50:51,080 --> 03:50:55,280
Speaker 1: And what that creates is a sense in which class

4296
03:50:55,320 --> 03:51:00,200
Speaker 1: struggle is perpetual. Like you understand always when you grow

4297
03:51:00,240 --> 03:51:01,400
Speaker 1: up in a place like that, But when you go

4298
03:51:01,480 --> 03:51:03,520
Speaker 1: to work, you're making somebody else money because you've been

4299
03:51:03,520 --> 03:51:05,880
Speaker 1: told that your whole life right, and that if you

4300
03:51:05,960 --> 03:51:07,800
Speaker 1: get angry about that, that what you're supposed to do

4301
03:51:07,840 --> 03:51:10,160
Speaker 1: is organize and go on strike. And that's a very

4302
03:51:10,400 --> 03:51:13,840
Speaker 1: normal sort of narrative. That was because we all grew

4303
03:51:13,880 --> 03:51:15,880
Speaker 1: up in families where we were taught to do that.

4304
03:51:16,280 --> 03:51:18,720
Speaker 1: That if the wealthy we're taking advantage of you, you

4305
03:51:18,880 --> 03:51:22,480
Speaker 1: just leave. Right. That is not a normal thing outside

4306
03:51:22,520 --> 03:51:24,800
Speaker 1: of the rest of the America, right, Like, people don't

4307
03:51:24,800 --> 03:51:27,240
Speaker 1: get brought up with that. But I think as we're

4308
03:51:27,280 --> 03:51:30,160
Speaker 1: starting to see this kind of rise of the idea

4309
03:51:30,240 --> 03:51:32,360
Speaker 1: of the general strike, and we're starting to understand that

4310
03:51:32,520 --> 03:51:35,680
Speaker 1: is something that's not just connected to employment, but we

4311
03:51:35,720 --> 03:51:37,920
Speaker 1: can start to think of general strikes as social strikes

4312
03:51:38,000 --> 03:51:41,440
Speaker 1: and not just economic strikes. We can start to understand like,

4313
03:51:41,800 --> 03:51:44,960
Speaker 1: even if those may immediately not succeed, the long term

4314
03:51:45,120 --> 03:51:47,840
Speaker 1: impacts of those over time really create the conditions for

4315
03:51:47,960 --> 03:51:50,680
Speaker 1: them to succeed later. And if it hadn't been for

4316
03:51:51,440 --> 03:51:54,480
Speaker 1: that flame staying alive, I think in parts of America,

4317
03:51:55,240 --> 03:51:58,080
Speaker 1: this wave of worker action wouldn't be happening. There wouldn't

4318
03:51:58,080 --> 03:51:59,720
Speaker 1: be a foundation for it, there wouldn't be a way

4319
03:51:59,840 --> 03:52:03,280
Speaker 1: on your standard right um. And that's what's so critical

4320
03:52:03,320 --> 03:52:05,120
Speaker 1: about this moment is I think in some ways we're

4321
03:52:05,160 --> 03:52:08,520
Speaker 1: almost reviving a thing that my grandparents lived in the

4322
03:52:08,600 --> 03:52:11,120
Speaker 1: midst of just as a very normal part of their lives.

4323
03:52:11,400 --> 03:52:13,520
Speaker 1: I think that's like a really important piece about the survival.

4324
03:52:13,560 --> 03:52:16,000
Speaker 1: And I think that something that feels really important about

4325
03:52:16,040 --> 03:52:19,320
Speaker 1: general strikes is the idea of like solidarity and that

4326
03:52:19,440 --> 03:52:22,720
Speaker 1: our liberation is collective, you know, that it involves each other.

4327
03:52:23,320 --> 03:52:26,080
Speaker 1: And I think that, um, I feel like what happened

4328
03:52:26,120 --> 03:52:28,040
Speaker 1: between like what you're saying some about you, like your

4329
03:52:28,040 --> 03:52:31,480
Speaker 1: grandparents generation and now is like near liberalism in a

4330
03:52:31,560 --> 03:52:34,160
Speaker 1: lot of ways, and just like this really strong promotion

4331
03:52:34,240 --> 03:52:36,960
Speaker 1: of the idea of like individualism and that if you

4332
03:52:37,040 --> 03:52:39,040
Speaker 1: want to make your life better you have to do

4333
03:52:39,160 --> 03:52:41,840
Speaker 1: it yourself, and like it's down to you as an individual.

4334
03:52:42,320 --> 03:52:44,600
Speaker 1: But I think it was pretty effective at decimating a

4335
03:52:44,640 --> 03:52:47,120
Speaker 1: lot of ideas of like solidarity or the idea that

4336
03:52:47,200 --> 03:52:50,080
Speaker 1: I like, freedom is with each other, um. And I

4337
03:52:50,160 --> 03:52:52,520
Speaker 1: think that that is starting to fall apart, Like people

4338
03:52:52,560 --> 03:52:55,280
Speaker 1: are realizing however much they hustle or like have side

4339
03:52:55,360 --> 03:52:58,720
Speaker 1: hustles or whatever, they're still fucked. And just like I

4340
03:52:58,880 --> 03:53:00,960
Speaker 1: think that we're seeing like there's sergeants of this idea

4341
03:53:01,040 --> 03:53:03,680
Speaker 1: of like solidarity and that we have to do together.

4342
03:53:05,120 --> 03:53:06,920
Speaker 1: That is going to do it for us this week.

4343
03:53:07,200 --> 03:53:10,160
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in. Check us out

4344
03:53:10,360 --> 03:53:13,360
Speaker 1: on Macedon at I g D Underscore News, and be

4345
03:53:13,600 --> 03:53:15,880
Speaker 1: sure to tune in as the workers that It Could

4346
03:53:15,920 --> 03:53:18,880
Speaker 1: Happen Here into their two day strike and return to

4347
03:53:18,960 --> 03:53:22,080
Speaker 1: the job. But stay tuned. We'll be back next week

4348
03:53:22,200 --> 03:53:28,960
Speaker 1: for even more episodes. Until then, Hey, We'll be back

4349
03:53:29,040 --> 03:53:32,240
Speaker 1: Monday with more episodes every week from now until the

4350
03:53:32,280 --> 03:53:34,800
Speaker 1: heat death of the Universe. It Could Happen Here is

4351
03:53:34,800 --> 03:53:37,480
Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from

4352
03:53:37,520 --> 03:53:40,400
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,

4353
03:53:40,600 --> 03:53:42,320
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

4354
03:53:42,360 --> 03:53:45,520
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

4355
03:53:45,560 --> 03:53:48,240
Speaker 1: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at

4356
03:53:48,280 --> 03:53:51,480
Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening