1
00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,080
Speaker 1: Cable news is ripping us apart, dividing the nation, making

2
00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,560
Speaker 1: it impossible to function as a society and to know

3
00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,360
Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news

4
00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:11,480
Speaker 1: is that they're failing and they know it. That is

5
00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,480
Speaker 1: why we're building something new. Be part of creating a new, better, healthier,

6
00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,599
Speaker 1: and more trustworthy mainstream by becoming a breaking Points Premium

7
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,120
Speaker 1: member today at Breakingpoints dot com. Your hard earned money

8
00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,040
Speaker 1: is going to help us build for the midterms and

9
00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:28,040
Speaker 1: the upcoming presidential election so we can provide unparalleled coverage

10
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:29,240
Speaker 1: of what is sure to be one of the most

11
00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,960
Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for?

12
00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,960
Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out. Welcome

13
00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,840
Speaker 1: to Counterpoints Friday. We are this is our last show

14
00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,440
Speaker 1: before the midterm elections, which we have of course been

15
00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,520
Speaker 1: tracking so closely in Sager and Crystal and everyone has.

16
00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:51,160
Speaker 1: But this is the last Counterpoints before the Tuesday midterm elections. Ryan,

17
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,520
Speaker 1: there's obviously a lot to break down and a lot changing,

18
00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,080
Speaker 1: Like actually on a daily basis, what do you make

19
00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:02,000
Speaker 1: of things right now? Night they dragged Kamala Harris and

20
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,920
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton out to Manhattan to rally the Liberals in

21
00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,640
Speaker 1: New York out to defend Kathy Hulkle. So that's not

22
00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:14,160
Speaker 1: a great sign the Wine mom rally. If you're struggling

23
00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,280
Speaker 1: in New York in the New York gubernatorial election heading

24
00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,920
Speaker 1: into the midterm, yep, that doesn't say much about where

25
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,520
Speaker 1: you are in case. I actually think they're legitimately struggling

26
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,160
Speaker 1: in the New York Guba trinatorial election. And of course

27
00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,920
Speaker 1: because they're counting on midterm turnout, right, they need to

28
00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,920
Speaker 1: beat Republican turnout in a blue state like New York City,

29
00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:34,480
Speaker 1: where it's not typically going to be high in a

30
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,440
Speaker 1: midterm election, by rallying people in Manhattan with you know,

31
00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,959
Speaker 1: people that Democrats in Manhattan might be inspired by Hillary

32
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,400
Speaker 1: Clinton and Kamala Harris, although I'm not sure anybody's particularly

33
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,120
Speaker 1: inspired by Kamala Harris. That said, Ryan, this is a

34
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,280
Speaker 1: this is a really instructive case study and what we're

35
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,640
Speaker 1: kind of breaking down in this block because frankly, I

36
00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 1: think what's happening in New York is a good example

37
00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 1: of how from a political perspective, republiclkins are weaponizing the

38
00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,640
Speaker 1: culture war to great effect. Because Democrats, it's not just

39
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,160
Speaker 1: that Republicans are doing a better than usual job. It's

40
00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,360
Speaker 1: that Democrats are doing a terrible job responding. And part

41
00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,480
Speaker 1: of that is their own fault. I mean a lot

42
00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,360
Speaker 1: of that is their own fault because they've kind of

43
00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,080
Speaker 1: locked themselves into ideological prisons that make it very difficult

44
00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,680
Speaker 1: to walk back school lockdowns, to lock back bad walk

45
00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,800
Speaker 1: back bad crime policy. Say that five times, and you

46
00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,080
Speaker 1: know all of these other issues across word walk back

47
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,839
Speaker 1: policies that people don't like in schools. When it goes

48
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,760
Speaker 1: to cultural war issues, and I really think New York

49
00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:38,920
Speaker 1: is going to be We'll be with Crystal and Sager

50
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,720
Speaker 1: and election Night, that's going to be one of the

51
00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:42,399
Speaker 1: ones that's on the top of my list to watch.

52
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,119
Speaker 1: And I never would have predicted that a year ago.

53
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,800
Speaker 1: And what's been fascinating is that Republicans, I think road

54
00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:53,359
Speaker 1: tested a culture war strategy in Virginia in twenty twenty one.

55
00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 1: I think it worked for them, and I think the

56
00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,359
Speaker 1: media collectively decided not to talk about it. By the way,

57
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,920
Speaker 1: by a guy pe like a private equity dude in

58
00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,200
Speaker 1: a fleece vest, the road test of that, which from

59
00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,600
Speaker 1: the Republican perspective would be unheard of, right, Like you're

60
00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,880
Speaker 1: getting a dude from the Carlisle group to talk about

61
00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,600
Speaker 1: what's in schools. But it's because they were reading the

62
00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,760
Speaker 1: base better. They're right, and they're kind of playing anyway.

63
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,040
Speaker 1: So what we want to talk about in this segment

64
00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:26,840
Speaker 1: is that culture war, because it's this very strange moment

65
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,640
Speaker 1: where you have one political party that is spending a

66
00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:37,040
Speaker 1: significant amount of its resources on a particular issue, and

67
00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:38,880
Speaker 1: yet it's not getting talked about. Like we know that

68
00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,560
Speaker 1: Republicans are running on inflation, we know that they're running

69
00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,320
Speaker 1: on inflation, we know that they're running on crime. When

70
00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,240
Speaker 1: it comes to the kind of trans school issue that

71
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,119
Speaker 1: gets mentioned here or there in the media, but nowhere

72
00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,080
Speaker 1: near the proportion of the amount of time the Republicans

73
00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:56,680
Speaker 1: are spending on it, and I don't want to talk

74
00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,960
Speaker 1: about it. I think why that is. But first, let's

75
00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,600
Speaker 1: play this first clip. So this is a very typical ad.

76
00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,160
Speaker 1: This is one hitting Catherine Cortes Mastow, who is an

77
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,720
Speaker 1: incumbent Democratic senator in Nevada who very well may lose.

78
00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:17,039
Speaker 1: Let's roll this. We have an explosion of kids rather

79
00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:23,720
Speaker 1: suddenly making an announcement that they are transgender Democrats like

80
00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,760
Speaker 1: Catherine Cortez mascow E, Si Silac, and Joe Biden support

81
00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:33,400
Speaker 1: policies pushing dangerous transgender drugs and surgeries on kids, taking

82
00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,200
Speaker 1: away parental rights. We have to go out there and

83
00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:43,320
Speaker 1: stop this. Our children deserve better. So after I posted

84
00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,200
Speaker 1: this yesterday, Dave Weigel, who was at the Washington Post,

85
00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,200
Speaker 1: got suspended from the Washington Post, and amid the suspension,

86
00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,640
Speaker 1: I guess started talking to Semaphore and he's now national

87
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,240
Speaker 1: correspondent national political correspondent for Semaphore. He posted this, if

88
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,760
Speaker 1: we put up a two this is This is Weigel's

89
00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:03,200
Speaker 1: response here, and basically what he's saying here is okay here.

90
00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,240
Speaker 1: I've been covering this a lot for that exact reason.

91
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 1: Seems to me that some squeamishness about platforming it with coverage.

92
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,039
Speaker 1: But leave a TV on in a swing state and

93
00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,400
Speaker 1: all you see is quote they want to turn boys

94
00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,840
Speaker 1: into girls ads. So you're seeing these ads all over

95
00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,760
Speaker 1: the place, all over the country. They're they're very big

96
00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,240
Speaker 1: part of the political conversation in the sense that it's

97
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,719
Speaker 1: going to play a significant role in how voters end

98
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:32,480
Speaker 1: up making making their decisions. Recently, you started seeing swings

99
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,479
Speaker 1: in among suburban women. For instance, there was a poll

100
00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:37,920
Speaker 1: that saw what they were saying, They saw an eighteen

101
00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,960
Speaker 1: point swing in like the Pittsburgh suburbs away from Democrats,

102
00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,279
Speaker 1: and whether way, that's like a kind of what Kathy Hochel.

103
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,440
Speaker 1: Since we opened talking about New York, she was up

104
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,280
Speaker 1: by what nineteen or so in August and by this

105
00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,560
Speaker 1: first week of November, that's a very slim margin if

106
00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,640
Speaker 1: even she's up at all. And so to Wygel's point

107
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,720
Speaker 1: about squeamishness, I think there's something to that. In fact,

108
00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,880
Speaker 1: so a source, a campaign source, sent me that ad.

109
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,080
Speaker 1: It said, we're just seeing this absolutely everywhere, these ads

110
00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,120
Speaker 1: like this around the country, a lot of them targeted

111
00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,040
Speaker 1: at Latino voters. Sources send me these ads. My job

112
00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:12,880
Speaker 1: is to report on them, post here, say and tell

113
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,840
Speaker 1: people here this is what's happening. And I was like,

114
00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,479
Speaker 1: I don't really want to post this. Yeah, I was

115
00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,560
Speaker 1: literally squeamish about it, but I'm like, well, this is

116
00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,960
Speaker 1: my job, get over it. So I post a video

117
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,680
Speaker 1: tell people like this is what, this is, what is

118
00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,480
Speaker 1: playing a significant role in these races. And so by

119
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,880
Speaker 1: not talking about it, I feel like Democrats and Also

120
00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,920
Speaker 1: the media allowed allowed Young Kin to kind of road

121
00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,560
Speaker 1: test this strategy in twenty one, allowed Republicans to test it,

122
00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,960
Speaker 1: allowed Republicans to own the narrative and own the narrative

123
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:45,880
Speaker 1: and see what worked and what didn't work. And now

124
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,000
Speaker 1: they're just rolling with it in twenty two and just

125
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,159
Speaker 1: without any response at all from Democrats because they don't

126
00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,000
Speaker 1: have a response that's persuasive in a midterm election cycle.

127
00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,320
Speaker 1: And that was on full display when there was a

128
00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,000
Speaker 1: local Michigan elected leader who went viral and I remember

129
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,080
Speaker 1: we covered this back at Rising a few months ago

130
00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,960
Speaker 1: and James Carvill marveled at her, and she was responding

131
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,760
Speaker 1: to trans sort of the trans debate locally, and it's

132
00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,600
Speaker 1: just not a persuasive argument. No matter how compassionately and

133
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,000
Speaker 1: how reasonably you try to frame it, people do not

134
00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 1: buy it. And Republicans allowed Democrats to control the narrative

135
00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,840
Speaker 1: for years and years and years until I think, really

136
00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,960
Speaker 1: they saw Trump put cracks in that foundation. And that's

137
00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:29,840
Speaker 1: where you get a pe guy in a fleece fest

138
00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,040
Speaker 1: like Glenn youngin coming in and road testing that message,

139
00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,640
Speaker 1: like you said, and then the year after that, in

140
00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,800
Speaker 1: a midterm cycle, other Republicans are in following suit in

141
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:40,440
Speaker 1: that ad. I watched it a couple of times we

142
00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,960
Speaker 1: were talking before the show before realizing and sticking around

143
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:45,280
Speaker 1: to the very end to see it was done by

144
00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,000
Speaker 1: the American Principles Projects that so it's run by a

145
00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,160
Speaker 1: friend of mine named Terry Shilling, and Terry for a

146
00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,600
Speaker 1: couple of years has been running ads like this because

147
00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,920
Speaker 1: other Republicans in the party establishment have been squeamish about

148
00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,800
Speaker 1: it and have just freelancing basically well, like American Principles

149
00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,400
Speaker 1: Project was buying ads in Michigan, I think Kentucky, Wisconsin

150
00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,200
Speaker 1: in different elections over the last couple of years where

151
00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,600
Speaker 1: National Republicans did not want to touch the trans issue

152
00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,040
Speaker 1: did not want to touch they speaking of squeamishness. They

153
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,000
Speaker 1: have an ad up in Maine against Janet Mills where

154
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,720
Speaker 1: it's just parents straight up reading excerpts from certain books

155
00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,880
Speaker 1: that Democrats have defended putting in schools up in Maine

156
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,880
Speaker 1: and showing the squeamishness that parents are experiencing just when

157
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,480
Speaker 1: they're reading these excerpts and looking at these pictures. And

158
00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,560
Speaker 1: so Terry's been doing this for a couple of years,

159
00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,880
Speaker 1: and it looks like actually other people have learned because

160
00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:37,840
Speaker 1: to your point, Ryan, I think even I think we

161
00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:42,640
Speaker 1: even have it here. There's another group, Citizens for for Sanity,

162
00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,600
Speaker 1: where citizens for saying I'm running all these psychotic xenophobic

163
00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,240
Speaker 1: ads during the World Series and the n LCS. Since

164
00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:50,360
Speaker 1: we have so we have one of the Citizens for

165
00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,360
Speaker 1: Sanity ads, we can roll that now. Well, left wing

166
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,560
Speaker 1: politicians are pushing sexual agendas on our children, X rated

167
00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:02,120
Speaker 1: drag shows for kids, pornography elementary schools. Now they want

168
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,520
Speaker 1: to charge you with a felony if your school wants

169
00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,400
Speaker 1: you to change your kids gender and you don't agree,

170
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,840
Speaker 1: legally require movie theaters, restaurants, and other businesses to let

171
00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,720
Speaker 1: men use the women's restroom. The radical left has lost

172
00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,599
Speaker 1: their minds and it's only getting worse. Stop the insanity.

173
00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,679
Speaker 1: Citizens Persentity paid for this ad. So what used to

174
00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,079
Speaker 1: be the case is that American Principles Project and maybe

175
00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,920
Speaker 1: some like grassroots conservative groups were the only people willing

176
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,880
Speaker 1: to make ads like that. And to your point about

177
00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,080
Speaker 1: Republicans road testing it in Virginia and then kind of saying,

178
00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,200
Speaker 1: actually this looks like it works coming in Why why

179
00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,120
Speaker 1: was that? Why? Why what was holding them back. I

180
00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:46,400
Speaker 1: don't think of them as kind of well, okay, so

181
00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,640
Speaker 1: remember the twenty twelve Republican on tops here, sure famous.

182
00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,360
Speaker 1: I actually keep a copy of it on my desktop

183
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,600
Speaker 1: in case it ever gets disappeared from the Internet. But

184
00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,440
Speaker 1: it's basically coaching Republicans. A lot of folks remember at

185
00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,040
Speaker 1: the RNC under Rene's previous to move away from the

186
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,600
Speaker 1: culture war, and that was biggots and jerks. Okay, that

187
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,880
Speaker 1: was the conventional wisdom in Washington, d C. But see, actually,

188
00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:09,560
Speaker 1: what you just said, I feel like is why their

189
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,440
Speaker 1: squeamishness about talking about this. But it was like and

190
00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,320
Speaker 1: it was like that in the Republican Party very much,

191
00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,640
Speaker 1: because it was any like they have the trauma from

192
00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,040
Speaker 1: the War on women, the political trauma of the War

193
00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,560
Speaker 1: on women. They have that memory. They never wanted to

194
00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:25,839
Speaker 1: go in that direction again. They didn't want to get

195
00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,000
Speaker 1: their hands dirty in what they saw is the culture War. Meanwhile,

196
00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,160
Speaker 1: Democrats were, as Obama did, passing things or like his

197
00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,120
Speaker 1: directives on Title nine from his Department of Education that

198
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,360
Speaker 1: opened the entire country up to what a lot of

199
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,320
Speaker 1: people are now talking about as radical ideological stuff on

200
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,520
Speaker 1: LGBT issues and Republicans let it happen because they didn't

201
00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,280
Speaker 1: want to touch it. They want to talk about the economy,

202
00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,199
Speaker 1: they wanted to do tax cuts, they wanted to do

203
00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,320
Speaker 1: their big spending foreign policy, and it was hands off,

204
00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,959
Speaker 1: and they took a major l on marriage equality, took

205
00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,520
Speaker 1: a major l in marriage and looked like real jerks

206
00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,040
Speaker 1: in front of their kids in the whole country, and

207
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,079
Speaker 1: they felt like they were on the wrong side of history.

208
00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 1: Kind of, that's a good moment. There's a lot of

209
00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,320
Speaker 1: that is a really good point, and there's a lot

210
00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,440
Speaker 1: of memory from that too that it was handled incorrectly.

211
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,560
Speaker 1: That you know, a lot of people, even a lot

212
00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,120
Speaker 1: of Republicans now think that was the wrong side of history.

213
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,640
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, the squeamishness they were, the screamishness is

214
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,360
Speaker 1: very much like that exists. So they were hesitant to

215
00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,040
Speaker 1: dip back into this again, yes, very much, until they

216
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:32,440
Speaker 1: were like, oh wait, and it is the expansion of

217
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:37,160
Speaker 1: this just in the public space. Does that have something

218
00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,800
Speaker 1: to do with it? Because I think the number of

219
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,920
Speaker 1: I think that the salience of the issue has risen.

220
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,200
Speaker 1: I think in the last three four years it's just

221
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,440
Speaker 1: a bigger issue. Well, I think there's a clear social

222
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,640
Speaker 1: contagion aspect to a lot of this. But I also

223
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,920
Speaker 1: think during the pandemic, when parents had this like very

224
00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,480
Speaker 1: direct way of monitoring the curriculum, they were seeing it

225
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,720
Speaker 1: hearing it in kitchen and you would know that better

226
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,160
Speaker 1: than you actually have kids. But seeing it during the

227
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,280
Speaker 1: kitchen wall, everyone is at home together, it exposed a

228
00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,440
Speaker 1: lot of the curricula. Then there was twenty twenty, which

229
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,320
Speaker 1: exposed a lot of the curriculu because parents were like,

230
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,000
Speaker 1: wait a second, what's going on, what's being taught? I'm

231
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,440
Speaker 1: sorry you're putting the sixteen nineteen project in the schools.

232
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:18,839
Speaker 1: I don't want my kid reading that. And so I

233
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,720
Speaker 1: think it was a combination of those things. And I

234
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,600
Speaker 1: think also I think Democrats went sort of pedaled to

235
00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,760
Speaker 1: the metal in twenty twenty in a way that got

236
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,200
Speaker 1: noticed by a lot of Republicans and became sort of

237
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,520
Speaker 1: that brick wall where even Christine Dresen in Oregon, did

238
00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:35,520
Speaker 1: you see the ad she was running of Democrats and

239
00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,320
Speaker 1: independen saying I've never voted Republican in my life. It

240
00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,520
Speaker 1: was very heavily cultural war. Obviously, an organ crime is

241
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,240
Speaker 1: a big issue. It's one of the places where it's

242
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,440
Speaker 1: obviously very salient. So I think it was just a

243
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,480
Speaker 1: lot of and part of them is because when you

244
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,640
Speaker 1: have this binary formulation where you're either progressive on every

245
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,960
Speaker 1: single step of the way or you were a bigot

246
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:56,680
Speaker 1: and you wrote about this kind of in your intercept

247
00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:01,360
Speaker 1: piece about DEI becoming like sort of a hindrance to

248
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,280
Speaker 1: progress of progressive organizations, then nobody wants to be the

249
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,439
Speaker 1: voice of reason and say like, hey, like don't agree

250
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,640
Speaker 1: all the way on that one. And so when it

251
00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,559
Speaker 1: came to Virginia in twenty twenty one, and particularly in

252
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,440
Speaker 1: loud and County, the media narrative was heavily around CRT

253
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,040
Speaker 1: fight over schools and school boards, but there was also

254
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 1: in that area this massive fight over transgender policy. Yes,

255
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:33,319
Speaker 1: that Republicans really seized on. And what was your sense

256
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,400
Speaker 1: of which was a more important issue at the time,

257
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,360
Speaker 1: was it? And was did CRT kind of become a

258
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,920
Speaker 1: cover for all of it? And so the media talked

259
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,520
Speaker 1: about CRT, the right talked about CRT, but actually what

260
00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,520
Speaker 1: was going on was more around the transgender fight. Yeah,

261
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,080
Speaker 1: we actually did a whole documentary on that at the

262
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,360
Speaker 1: Federalist where we just that you can watch it on YouTube.

263
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,560
Speaker 1: The whole thing is just interviews with different parents that

264
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,360
Speaker 1: are involved, and it's just them unfiltered in their own words.

265
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,640
Speaker 1: And we asked them that question because I couldn't sort

266
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,120
Speaker 1: of disentangle those many variables, and what we got over

267
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,600
Speaker 1: and over again was it's a combination. So when you're

268
00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,400
Speaker 1: mad about COVID, your COVID lockdown, and then you hear

269
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,080
Speaker 1: about the book, you're going to get involved. You're going

270
00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,960
Speaker 1: to give money to the candidate, you're going to start organizing,

271
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,240
Speaker 1: and you're going to vote a different way as opposed

272
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,840
Speaker 1: to it in the past. If you had just been

273
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,040
Speaker 1: mad about the book, maybe it would have just been

274
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,040
Speaker 1: mad about the book, maybe it would have just been

275
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,560
Speaker 1: mad about the locker room policy. But when you are

276
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,320
Speaker 1: also mad about the locker room policy, the book, and

277
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,760
Speaker 1: the COVID and everyone's locked down, then you really do

278
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 1: start to I mean, that was the combination of all

279
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,680
Speaker 1: those things happening at once was animating for the people

280
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,600
Speaker 1: in loud County, for sure, And that's what they said repeatedly.

281
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,000
Speaker 1: It was the combo. And is it the focus on

282
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,240
Speaker 1: kids that is resonating? You think it's just that really

283
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,280
Speaker 1: so if right. So I'm trying to think what would

284
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,840
Speaker 1: be the non transphobic response that Democrats could make to this.

285
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,800
Speaker 1: It's a good question. It's good because you because you don't,

286
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,480
Speaker 1: you don't, you don't, you don't want to embrace some

287
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,800
Speaker 1: of the genuine kind of transphobic elements out there that

288
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,800
Speaker 1: are trying to like smuggle their own agenda through here

289
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,400
Speaker 1: through these concerns of parents. But if they're completely silent

290
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:25,480
Speaker 1: on it, then then all of that space is just

291
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,600
Speaker 1: going to be filled by the far right if they

292
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,640
Speaker 1: have no yet right, if they if they are unwilling

293
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,600
Speaker 1: to compromise one bit on this issue. And I don't

294
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,520
Speaker 1: know what that compromise would look like. I know what

295
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,680
Speaker 1: I think about this, but I don't know for Democrats,

296
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,200
Speaker 1: you know, reasonable Democrats, what that compromise would look like.

297
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,360
Speaker 1: If they're unwilling to even move an inch in that direction,

298
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,440
Speaker 1: because the activist base will hold them all accountable for

299
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:52,360
Speaker 1: every millimeter that they go towards that inch, then I

300
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,880
Speaker 1: think it's just a loss. And I don't know how

301
00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:01,000
Speaker 1: you can message also on that, because voters, whether they're Democrats, republican, independence,

302
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,960
Speaker 1: they want the compromise position on this. They want the

303
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:05,920
Speaker 1: nuanced position on this. And that's not to say that

304
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,320
Speaker 1: there isn't any legitimate bigotry going on. Of course there

305
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:16,640
Speaker 1: is that always exists and sadly likely always will. But most,

306
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,080
Speaker 1: the vast majority of people want a compassionate, compromise situation

307
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,520
Speaker 1: here that is best for their children. Most people in

308
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,440
Speaker 1: this country are pro LGBT, and but it's just what

309
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,400
Speaker 1: they're seeing with children they view as extremism. And if

310
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,760
Speaker 1: Democrats Democrats can't budge from that, I don't know. I

311
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 1: don't know. And there's a spectrum of ads like the

312
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,760
Speaker 1: Citizens for Sanity one that they played there. I think

313
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 1: that was just to typically wildly over the top crazy

314
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:47,960
Speaker 1: ad like that organization runs, whereas the other one was

315
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,920
Speaker 1: more of a typical attack ad like you can argue

316
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:52,360
Speaker 1: like I saw a lot of people saying that the

317
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,200
Speaker 1: ad that I post, for instance, are like, well, that

318
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,560
Speaker 1: whole thing's inaccurate. It's like, well, actually, if you look

319
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,080
Speaker 1: at look at what they're saying, there's a lot of

320
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,680
Speaker 1: hyperbole and there's a lot of language that you wouldn't

321
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,240
Speaker 1: use to describe things. But basically what they're saying is

322
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:12,760
Speaker 1: that Democrats approve of gender affirming medical intervention for people

323
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,480
Speaker 1: under eighteen, and they do like that. So that's the

324
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 1: basic fight. And Democrats are on one side and Republicans

325
00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:22,959
Speaker 1: are on the other. And I think Republicans have an

326
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 1: enormous amount of polling and so do Democrats that show

327
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,680
Speaker 1: that at least on the polling, it's not going well

328
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,439
Speaker 1: for them. So what happens if let's say there's an

329
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,760
Speaker 1: upset in Michigan because Tutor Dixon, Yeah you could, you

330
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,600
Speaker 1: could see could she win? What do you think? Yeah?

331
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,680
Speaker 1: I think? And if she wins, it depends on the

332
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,000
Speaker 1: size of it. That's a race, for instance, that has

333
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,760
Speaker 1: heavily been fought over these issues. Yes, I mean the

334
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,320
Speaker 1: parents in Dearborn, which we reported on a couple of

335
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 1: weeks ago, could swing that election to Tudor Dixon. That's

336
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,920
Speaker 1: not a block that ever votes Republican in any large

337
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,680
Speaker 1: numbers whatsoever, but could be so animated. Talking about turnout

338
00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,640
Speaker 1: in a midterm cycle, those are the folks that could

339
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,320
Speaker 1: be so animated that they wouldn't normally vote, let alone

340
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,320
Speaker 1: vote Republican, and they're going to Actually I reached out

341
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,200
Speaker 1: to Terry Shilling from American Principles Project after you sent

342
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:09,399
Speaker 1: me the ad and said we were going to be

343
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,000
Speaker 1: covering this, and he sent a statement that said the

344
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,200
Speaker 1: big story around these ads is that Democrats have lost

345
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:15,960
Speaker 1: their minds when it comes to children and families, and

346
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,720
Speaker 1: establishment Republicans are committing political malpractice by not leaning into

347
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,520
Speaker 1: these issues. Talk to an average voting parent and protecting

348
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,199
Speaker 1: kids from this Democrat party led insanity is front of

349
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,679
Speaker 1: mine along with inflation and crime. The new crop of

350
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,160
Speaker 1: GOP candidates understands this, how long before the party committees

351
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,520
Speaker 1: pick it up. So what he's saying is interesting because

352
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,600
Speaker 1: it leaves room for even more messaging on this in

353
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:43,199
Speaker 1: the future, and that makes the stakes for Democrats. It

354
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,680
Speaker 1: increases the stakes for Democrats to come up with a

355
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,639
Speaker 1: good answer. And what I would say for people on

356
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 1: the left is that there has for a long time,

357
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,879
Speaker 1: last couple of years, in activist circles. In a phrase,

358
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,000
Speaker 1: it goes roughly like your intent doesn't matter, yeah, right,

359
00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,120
Speaker 1: What matters is outcomes, And that's usually used as somebody

360
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,359
Speaker 1: who says I didn't mean to say something big it did. Well,

361
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,119
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what your intent was, you did say it,

362
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,879
Speaker 1: so you're guilty of this If outcome is what matters,

363
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 1: not intent. And the outcome is that the far right

364
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,879
Speaker 1: wins in Michigan and wins in all of these and

365
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 1: wins in the Vat and takes over the Senate, takes

366
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 1: over the House. Then your intent doesn't matter. Yeah, and

367
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 1: just before we leave, I want to commend to everybody

368
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 1: a piece on Ben Dominicic's subseet called the Transom, and

369
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,360
Speaker 1: he wrote about in The American or in the Spectator

370
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,200
Speaker 1: US as well. He talks about the kitchen table versus

371
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 1: the kitchen tablet and it's sort of a new spin

372
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,360
Speaker 1: on the fact that we live in two countries, right,

373
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 1: which is a cliche that is used in different ways

374
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,880
Speaker 1: and in different contexts. But in this context, I thought

375
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,359
Speaker 1: made a lot of sense that if you're an average

376
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,359
Speaker 1: parent who doesn't have time to spend on social media,

377
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,480
Speaker 1: you're experiencing a very different version of America, where you know,

378
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 1: if you're on social media versus if you're not on

379
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 1: social media, this is a different and the people who

380
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 1: are on social media disproportionately are run campaigns and media outlets,

381
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, and so actually, speaking

382
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,680
Speaker 1: of kitchen table issues, the Federal Reserve yesterday hiked interest

383
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 1: rates again by three quarters of a point, which we

384
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 1: can put up tear sheet A one here, which brings

385
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,160
Speaker 1: rates to their highest level since two thousand and eight.

386
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,439
Speaker 1: This is going to push mortgage rates even higher. They

387
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: they had hit, they had climbed over seven percent recently.

388
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 1: You're going to see this bump them up again. You

389
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,720
Speaker 1: saw kind of a little run in the stock market

390
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,160
Speaker 1: get blunted over the last couple of days days by

391
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 1: this and took a hit THURSD Now, Yes, and it's

392
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 1: so it's another instance of the Federal Reserve, you know,

393
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 1: I guess hoping that you that their use of monetary

394
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,639
Speaker 1: policy is going is going to be able to affect

395
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 1: things that I think. It just it just can't, you know,

396
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 1: like it can't make it. It can't make it rain

397
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 1: in areas that are suffering from droughts. It can't end

398
00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 1: the war between Ukraine and Russia, spending that's already happened. Well,

399
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it couldn't exactly do that, but it could

400
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 1: like pull some money out of the economy, So sort

401
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 1: of in a way, it kind of could, but I meant,

402
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: like legislative it couldn't it couldn't undo, right, it's not

403
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 1: fiscal policy, right, it's not you'd have to tax that

404
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: back out, which is the flip side of modern monetary theory,

405
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 1: which says you can spend. Your only limitation is inflation,

406
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 1: and once you hit inflation, then you have to tax

407
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: it back out. Then. But if you don't have majorities

408
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 1: that are able to pass tax increases, then you can't.

409
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 1: Then you actually you can't do that. Jerome Powell not

410
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 1: into m MT. Well, he seemed to be into MMT,

411
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: flirting with it for a pretty long time. I mean

412
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 1: he kind of he probably is, let me okay, it's

413
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: just a description of kind of how the economy does

414
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 1: work rather than prescriptive. It's I guess that kind of

415
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 1: depends on the content. So with Jerome Powell, an interesting

416
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 1: mix that I think reflects what we're seeing in the

417
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 1: media from Jerome Powell. And I wanted to ask you

418
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: about that actually, because it's sort of mixed signals, right,

419
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: like the soft landing versus what he's going to do

420
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 1: with Like people were expecting changes here, but the signal

421
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: seemed to be in one direction and then it seemed

422
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: to be walked back, walked back. This week about where

423
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,880
Speaker 1: rates are going to go. What do you think that

424
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 1: reflects about what's happening inside the FED? I think I

425
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: think they don't know exactly how to do this, and

426
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 1: I think that they're trying to unwind an extraordinarily difficult

427
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 1: situation because they did, you know, with quantitative easning over

428
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 1: a period of ten years. You know, they added trillions

429
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 1: to their balance sheet in a way that is unprecedented

430
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: in world history, and did and drove and drove up

431
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 1: asset prices for years. So how how to handle that

432
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,159
Speaker 1: without without laying waste to people's paychecks, you know, is

433
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: a keep is a key issue. But at the same time,

434
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: they're operating within a political context that can't get anything done,

435
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 1: that can't build more housing when we have a housing shortage,

436
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: that that can that can't fixed supply chains, that can't

437
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: break up monopolies so that you don't have people price

438
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: gouge because like the amount of inflation that is and

439
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: maybe we'll get studies about this ten years from now.

440
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: That is directly related to companies saying we now have

441
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: an excuse to raise prices, and we have market power,

442
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: so we can do it. And so we're going to do.

443
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 1: It might be as much as fifty percent, according to

444
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: a decent number of economists you're seeing say, I think

445
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: it was paint prices. Wholesale paint prices started coming down,

446
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 1: and on an earnings call, the paint CEO was like,

447
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 1: our prices are sticky, and by sticky they mean they're

448
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: staying up there. And then he used another term. It's

449
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: like the gap. The growing gap is just going to

450
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: go to our bottom line. It's just profits. So like

451
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: wholesale prices are coming down, economy is getting fixed in

452
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: that sense. But these companies have so much concentrated power

453
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: that they're like, actually, we like charging more for our product.

454
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: And if you don't like it, oh, we're the only

455
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: paint company. I don't know if it was a paint company,

456
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: it was. And there's so many examples of companies saying

457
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 1: this in earnings calls. Yeah, wholesale prices are down, but

458
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: we're leaving prices where they are because we can. In

459
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: a free market. That's not how it works. Somebody else

460
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: comes in and says, oh, wholesale prices are down. You

461
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: want ten bucks for this paint yep here gives sell

462
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: to you for nine and the consumer says, oh, hey,

463
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: that's CEO is a piece of garbage. I'm taking my

464
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: business elsewhere. But when you don't have the choice to

465
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: grow elsewhere, exactly, you're totally stuck. And there are examples

466
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: of that from earnings calls going back months and months

467
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 1: and months and more specifically even about how they're just

468
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: plainly not even passing it down to workers, right, I mean,

469
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 1: it gets so much worse than just hey, the profits,

470
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: because profits can be good for workers if they're passed

471
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: down to workers. But we have specific examples of CEOs

472
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 1: and this is not every CEO. And I'm not saying

473
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: this economy has across the board been bad for workers,

474
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: because I don't think that's the case, or a net

475
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: negative for workers to don't think that's the case. I

476
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 1: think it's been grossly unfair, especially in cases like that

477
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: where you see them specifically saying we're doing buybacks. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah,

478
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: which is just completely just setting money on fire. So

479
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: if if we could put up B two because the

480
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: other this is the other interesting development on j Powell

481
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,719
Speaker 1: this week. So his it's publicly known that his favorite

482
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 1: thing to look at is the is what's called the

483
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: inverted yield curve, and so it's it's starting your that's right,

484
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: my band name. So it's starting to look inverted. And

485
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: what that means is that it's it's a sign of

486
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: it's a potent sign of a potential recession ahead. Basically,

487
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: what basically what it means is that so if you

488
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: lend somebody money for ten years, you are going to

489
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: demand a higher interest rate because you're they're keeping you

490
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: you know, it's ten years. Then if you're just lending

491
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: it for a short term, short term, much much lower

492
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: interest rate. That's that's that's how it normally ought to be.

493
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: When when the curve on the yields there gets inverted,

494
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 1: what it means is that you're you're nervous about that

495
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: ten year investment because there might because there's there's a

496
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: you think there's a recession coming. So all of a sudden,

497
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: you want you know, you're you're you're getting a lower

498
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: into it flips around, ye and it gets it gets

499
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: inverted because you're expecting that, uh, you know, bond prices

500
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: are going to crash drive up, which dr bond prices

501
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: go down, yield curves go up. And so you're starting

502
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: to see that now and so what Wall Street is

503
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 1: starting to think? Okay, Well, J Powell thinks that this

504
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,719
Speaker 1: is a sign that a recession is coming. Maybe that

505
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: means eventually he's going to stop tightening, but it's we

506
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: don't know when. But the more the more blaring red

507
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: this sign gets, then the more likely artists for it

508
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: to see him say Okay, we've We've done what we can. Yeah,

509
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 1: the CNBC article said that we should on the screen.

510
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: So the Dow Jones Industrial average has gained more than

511
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: thirteen percent of the past month, in part because of

512
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: an earning season that wasn't as bad as feared, but

513
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: also doing to growing hope for recalibration of Fed policy.

514
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: Treasury yields also have come off their highest level since

515
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: the early days of the financial crisis, though they remain elevated.

516
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: The benchmark tenure note most recently is around four point

517
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: nine percent. Also, I flipped it you want less for

518
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: longer rates. I used to work on Wall Street and

519
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: I still like But I was also dyslexic. So that's

520
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: my favorite. My favorite chapter in the storybook that is

521
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: Ryan Grimm's career is the Wall Street chapter. Yeah, if

522
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: you want to my series seven license is probably still

523
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: being used by some corrupt all that is to say,

524
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: CNBC added there's little, if any expectation that rate hikes

525
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: will halt soon. So the anticipation is just for a

526
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: slower price or I mean a slower pace. Yeah right,

527
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: So but and as as you watch that, the more

528
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: the more it blairs, then it might slow down even further. Now, Ryan,

529
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: tell us what is on your points for this edition

530
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 1: of Counterpoints Fridays are my points? All right? So you'm

531
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: talking about the Intercept. The Intercept this week and we

532
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: published two major investigations that at first might seem unrelated,

533
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: but if you look closer, you'll see that they're linked

534
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: up in a profoundly important way. So one of them

535
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: is a deep look at safety inside the labs that

536
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: work with extremely dangerous pathogens. What our reporter Marafistendahl has

537
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 1: uncovered is deeply disturbing. She writes, an Intercept investigation, based

538
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: on over five five hundred pages of NIH documents obtained

539
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: under the Freedom of Information Act, has uncovered a litany

540
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: of mishaps, malfunctioning equipment, spilled beakers, transgenic rodents running down

541
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: the hall, a sedated macoque coming back to life and

542
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: biting a researcher hard enough to lacerate their hand. Many

543
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: of the incidents involved less dangerous pathogens that can be

544
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: handled with basic safety equipment, and most did not lead

545
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: to infection. But several accidents happened while scientists were handling

546
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: deadly or debilitating virus says in highly secure labs, and

547
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: a few did lead to illness. Now those illnesses, of course,

548
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: have the potential to spread and to become pandemics. Now,

549
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: some of what mar reveals in her series is downright frightening,

550
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: and I'd suggest checking it out at the intercept. Now.

551
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: The second story is an investigation by Lefong and ken

552
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: Klippenstein into a sprawling new mandate that the Department of

553
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: Homeland Security has adopted for itself to police the spread

554
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: of quote, misinformation, disinformation, and malinformation on the Internet. The

555
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: main targets of the truth police are, according to a

556
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: draft version of e leaked DHS Quadrennial Report, quote, the

557
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: origins of the COVID nineteen pandemic and the efficacy of

558
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen vaccines, racial justice, US withdrawal from Afghanistan, and

559
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: the nature of US support to Ukraine unquote, and here

560
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,959
Speaker 1: we find the overlap between these two investigations. So, for

561
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: some reason that I, for some reasons that I vaguely understand,

562
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: and for some others that I still can't fully compre

563
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: the conversation around the origin of the pandemic and the

564
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: efficacy of the vaccines have both become coded along a

565
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: left right axis. It is right wing to be skeptical

566
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: of the vaccines and to believe that COVID originated from

567
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: a lab accident at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Meanwhile,

568
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: it is left wing to oppose any discussion around the

569
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: safety or efficacy of the vaccines. And it is left

570
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: wing to believe that COVID jumped naturally from a host

571
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: species we inconveniently don't know which one yet, but let's

572
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: set that aside, and jumped from a host into humans

573
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: at a quote wet market in Wuhan where vendors sold

574
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: wild animals. But why are these questions on that axis?

575
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: Under what political logic are any of those positions either

576
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: right wing or left wing? You could just as easily

577
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: imagine vaccine skeptics being on the left. And actually, in

578
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: my early career at the Huffington post. I was embarrassed

579
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: at how our blog side frequently gave space to those

580
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: nutty California liberals like Jenny McCarthy who were campaigning against vaccines,

581
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: making tendentious links to autism while relying on junk science.

582
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: But all of it was built on top of a

583
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: traditional left wing edifice that big pharma is corrupt and

584
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: profit hungry and should never be taken at face value,

585
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: and that the FDA is a victim of corporate capture.

586
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: Those are now the arguments being made by the right.

587
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: And now that these mRNA vaccines aren't turning out to

588
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: be as safe and effective as they were initially said

589
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: to be, and are even less effective against new variants,

590
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: vaccines in general are getting discredited, which is a true tragedy.

591
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: And what about the partisan valance of the lab leak theory?

592
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: I could easily sketch a left wing or at least

593
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: a partisan democratic argument for it. Here goes President Obama,

594
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: having been briefed fully on the risks of gain of

595
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: function research, forced the NIH to pause such work. The

596
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: Trump administration lifted that ban and was funding back coronavirus

597
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: work at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Work that may

598
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: have sparked a pandemic. Then Trump tried to downplay the

599
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: pandemic Hila, that's all Trump's fault. Instead, Democrats shut down

600
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: the debate over its origin, suggesting that asking the question

601
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: was only fueling anti Asian hate crimes. But the alternative

602
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: notion itself played on racist stereotypes and prejudice, blaming the

603
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: pandemic on backward Chinese people eating that soup. How is that?

604
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: The anti racist explanation? But both of these questions should

605
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: be outside of politics. Whether the vaccine is safe and

606
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: effective on a particular variant is a question that ought

607
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: to be answered with data. The same is true with

608
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: the origin of COVID. But everything is now political, and

609
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: politics everywhere and everyone must choose a side. And if

610
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: you're not with us, you're with them. The problem is

611
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: the world keeps throwing problems at us, or perhaps more accurately,

612
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,719
Speaker 1: we keep making problems for ourselves, and those problems need

613
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: to be thought through deliberately. These aren't all easy questions.

614
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: Foreign propaganda and disinformation campaigns do exist, so what do

615
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: we do about them? Governments and government agencies like DHS

616
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: do try to expand their scope and authority relentlessly, so

617
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: what do we do about that? And gain of function?

618
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: Research can for sure have social benefits, but also comes

619
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: with existential risks. Consider this, Virtually all scientists who've looked

620
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: into COVID's origins, with the exception of a few ideologues

621
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: on either side, acknowledge that both explanations are still plausible.

622
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,719
Speaker 1: That means that it is plausible we did COVID to ourselves,

623
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: and that alone should be caused for deep reflection and

624
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: significant policy reforms instead. Number of labs doing dual use

625
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: research of concern has only mushroomed since twenty twenty. So

626
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: while Lee and Ken's story is going viral on the

627
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: right and mostly being ignored or attacked on the left,

628
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: Mara's story has not produced the sensation I think it should.

629
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: Many on the left don't want to be coded as

630
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: right wing for even talking about lab biosafety. Faith in

631
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: science bleeds naturally into faith in all scientists at all times,

632
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: and some on the right don't actually care about it

633
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: as an issue beyond its usefulness as a weapon to

634
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: bludgeon Fauci and the hated public health establishment. Here's how

635
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: the White House responded to our story on disinformation policing

636
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: when asked about it by Real Clear Politics reporter Philip Wagman. Yeah,

637
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: there was a reporting in the intercept about opportunities for

638
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: the federal government to identify for social media companies and

639
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: different posts that contained uh was perceived as misinformation about

640
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: the origins of COVID, the vaccine other things as well,

641
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: you know, such as Ukraine or the US withdrawal from Afghanistan. Yeah.

642
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: So look, I'll say this, the the administration, the bid

643
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: An administration remains fully committed to our mission to protect

644
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: the security and resilience of our of our you know,

645
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: elections at safeguard election infrastructure. That includes combat and combating disinformation.

646
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: That is something that we are committed to. You know,

647
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: we work to protect that, uh, protect Americans from disinformation

648
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 1: that threatens the homeland, including militia efforts spread by foreign ads, adversaries.

649
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: Adversaries sorry, pardon me, began before the Disinformation Governance Board

650
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: was established. In fact, some of that work began before

651
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: this administration. So you know, I want, I want to

652
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: be very clear that cross agency work continues to this day.

653
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to don't want to get ahead of

654
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: anything else. This is a Department of Homeland Security, so

655
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: I would refer you to them. And so essentially the

656
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: White House is saying that, yeah, we're doing this. Uh.

657
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: And if you notice in her answer, she leans heavily

658
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: on election security. And the response on the left was interesting.

659
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: It was basically not touched for a couple of days,

660
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: and then Tech Dark kind of industry blog kind of

661
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: jumped out and attacked it. Let's want to talk about

662
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 1: that next. I had to kind of like compare things

663
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: such a long, long response from tech Dirt tech dirt,

664
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: but you're probably able to kind of pick it apart

665
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: right away. What was your reaction to the tech Dirt

666
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: rebuttal allegedly. I mean, it's a really really long screed

667
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: and you and you're like, Wow, this guy's really having

668
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: a good time. But then you look closer at it,

669
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: you're like, wait, there's actually nothing here. That's what I thought.

670
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 1: Doesn't have anything to say. So I could we could

671
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: read some of it here. I don't know if we

672
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: have it in the telepromp, but I can also read

673
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: it from here too. So, like Fantasy writes, the article

674
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: is garbage, and I usual wouldn't focus on a blog

675
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: in the industry publication. But what's happened is that a

676
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: bunch of progresses were just sharing it without reading it,

677
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: being like, ah, good, I was right to be able

678
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: to ignore this. Now I don't have it's fake news.

679
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: I don't have I don't have to talk about this, right,

680
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what it was. It was like the

681
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: release valve fake news, yep, and fake news. I will

682
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: also say I think it warn't a response because I

683
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: actually think maybe you disagree that it was written in

684
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: good faith. I mean, it is screed. But he says

685
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: he's a fan of the intercept usually, and I think

686
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: he tried to engage with the substance, but his failure

687
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: I think to rebut the substance was extremely telling because

688
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: his fundamental problem is that there's a contradiction. And you'll

689
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: see this as I as I read this. Here he

690
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: says a couple of different things. One, he says, there's nothing.

691
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,240
Speaker 1: This is a nothing burger. He gives a giant nothing burger,

692
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: nothing new here, this is all old news. Tries to

693
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: tries to dress up old news as a big bombshell,

694
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 1: but actually we all knew all of this stuff. And

695
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: then he also says and it ought to be retracted.

696
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 1: It does say that. I was like, well, it can't

697
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: be both, Like it's either old news and a nothing

698
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: burger or it's false and should be retracted. And then

699
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: he's like, and he's like, and a lot of the

700
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: interactions that you describe between the tech companies, the tech

701
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 1: platforms and the government are actually good. So he's like,

702
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: it's a nothing burger, it's false and should be retracted.

703
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: And also it's false and it's good. And where it's

704
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: where it's not false, it's good. Right, Yeah, Like, oh,

705
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: sure this stuff exists. We've just known about it forever.

706
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 1: And by the way, yeah, we need to monitor people,

707
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: so he writes. He writes the article as garbage. It

708
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: not only misreads things, it is confused about what the

709
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: documents reporters have actually say and presents widely available, widely

710
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: known things as if they were secret and hidden when

711
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: they were not. So the entire articles is a complete

712
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: nothing burgher blah blah, says, let's dig in back. In

713
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, then President Donald Trump signed the Cybersecurity and

714
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: Infrastructure Security Agency Act into law, creating the Cybersecurity Infrastructure

715
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 1: Security Agency has a separate agency in DHS. While there

716
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: are always reasons to be concerned about government interference in

717
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: various aspects of life, CISA was pretty uncontroversial, perhaps with

718
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: the exception of when Trump freaked out and fired the

719
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 1: first cs AND director, Chris Krebs, for pointing out that

720
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: the election was safe and there was no evidence of

721
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: manipulation or foul play. Says, while CASA has a variety

722
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: of things under its purview, one thing that it is

723
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: focused on is general information sharing between the government and

724
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: private entities. This has actually been really useful for everyone,

725
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 1: even though the tech companies have been quite reasonably cautious

726
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: about how closely they'll work with the government because they've

727
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: been burned before. Indeed, as you may recall, one of

728
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: the big revelations from the Snowdent documents was about the

729
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 1: prison program, which turned out to be oversold by the

730
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: media reporting on it, but was still problematic in many ways.

731
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: Since then, the tech companies have been even more careful

732
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: about working with the government, knowing that too much government

733
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: involvement will eventually come out and get everyone burned. So

734
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: he's saying, and later he makes this point over and

735
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 1: over in this long piece that the tech platforms are

736
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 1: doing a good job of resisting the government pressure. That's

737
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: the best part. But there is no government pressure. Well

738
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: it's like, hey, buddy, what are they resisting? Right? And

739
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: that's the other thing. I do not know how reporting works.

740
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: You report this stuff because it's relevant to what it

741
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: could become. Right, So like in its early stages, in

742
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: its infancy, we should be so lucky as to catch

743
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 1: tech eg executives like some of the ones that are texting.

744
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: There's text messages in the intercept piece and government officials

745
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: even flirting with ideas that are this like authoritarian, I think.

746
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: And if the government wants to influence the public debate,

747
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: they should just do it the normal way. Have their

748
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,439
Speaker 1: spokesperson put out public statements, put out data. I'm glad

749
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: the CDC puts out a lot of data. Put out

750
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: more data, put out all the raw data like that.

751
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: That's your role if you want to do that behind

752
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 1: the scenes meetings, emails, portals, that's not and that's what

753
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: And we can put this ACL few thing up later.

754
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: That's the point. You can't use private entities to go

755
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: to get around the first Amendment. Lets read one more paragraph.

756
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: So this is all all can he says, with that

757
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 1: in mind, Caesar's role has been pretty widely respected with

758
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: almost everyone I've spoken to, both in government, at various

759
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: and at various companies. How is this a debunking of

760
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: the story. So he's spoken to a bunch of people

761
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: in government and at various companies. He says, it provides

762
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: information regarding actual threats, which has been useful to companies,

763
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 1: and they seem to appreciate it. This is what this

764
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: guy's writing, like the Colorado account's actual threats. The guy

765
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: with blucifer and the profile picture in the banner picture

766
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 1: who literally identifies himself as a parody account when you

767
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: go to the account has no followers. This is a practice,

768
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: a parody article. He then says, given their historical distrust

769
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: of government intrusion and their understanding of the limits of

770
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: government authority here, the companies have been pretty attuned to

771
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 1: any attempt at coercion, and I've heard nothing regarding CEISA

772
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: at all. What what looked the Facebook portal was something

773
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: that again like he uses it. And this is one

774
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: of the things when the Intercept report I think lays

775
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: out in the most disturbing detail At Tector, they're saying

776
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,919
Speaker 1: listen that Facebook portal, the metaportal, where government officials can

777
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: easily just drop anything they think constitutes disinformation in there.

778
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: And at one point in the Tectored article, he says,

779
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: and only thirty five percent of the complaints from the

780
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: government are like nobody does anything about you know, seventy

781
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 1: five percent of them. Just that thirty five percent. That's

782
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: a huge freaking number. Am I wrong? Thirty five percent?

783
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: And it should be public. It should And later he

784
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: says he accuses us of using a blurry version of

785
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: meeting minutes when the actual meeting minutes were public. And

786
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: it's basically he's accusing he's concocting some conspiracy that we

787
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: would like blur the minutes so it looked like we

788
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: got something. And he's like, here are the minutes. I

789
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: found them by googling. It's like, go read the minutes.

790
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: Those are different than the ones that we publish. They're different.

791
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. And he updated. He didn't correct. He

792
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: updated his piece and said like, yeah, okay, fine, Oh,

793
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: here's he says, updated to note that not all of

794
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: the meeting minutes published by the Intercept were public. They

795
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: include a couple of extra subcommittee minutes that are not

796
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,479
Speaker 1: on the seats of website. Like, so, okay, thank you,

797
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 1: like for correcting your peace updating updating. His piece did

798
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: not did not update his tweets about it. So, anyway,

799
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: do we yet do we have uh? Do we have

800
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: Edward Snowden here? So then he got what then he

801
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: then he got all mixed up in a fight with

802
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: Edward Snowden, who was like what Like he was like,

803
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: what are you doing? I think that's C three? Is

804
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: that right? I don't know, I don't I don't know

805
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 1: if we have it? Yeah, so C three, Oh yeah,

806
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: I'll read this one too. So this is this is

807
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: the part here. So the next paragraph to the intercept

808
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: piece then provides an email that kind of debunks the

809
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 1: entire frame of the article. Quote platforms have got to

810
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: get comfortable with government. It's really interesting how hesitant they remain.

811
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: Microsoft executive masters in a former DHS official Texagen Easterly

812
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: a DHS director in February. That is so inappropriate, right

813
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: and then and then he writes Masterson had worked in

814
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: DHS on these kinds of programs and then moved over

815
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: to Microsoft. But here he's literally pointing out that the

816
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 1: companies remain hesitant to work too closely with the government,

817
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 1: which is exactly what we've been saying all along again

818
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: on Microsoft executive isn't right and right right, the Microsoft

819
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 1: executive isn't And what are they hesitant about? They are

820
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: hesitant about what the government is doing. What is the

821
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: government doing? The government is creeping into their space. Content

822
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: moderation is extraordinarily difficult. And I don't want to say

823
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: that this is easy stuff, but we don't need the

824
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: government engaged in the content moderation process. And the tech

825
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: platforms are hesitant not of nothing, They're hesitant of something.

826
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: They're resisting something. What are they resisting. They're resisting the

827
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: exact thing that this guy described in the article. But

828
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: the thing is he doesn't find anything wrong with it,

829
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: but which is fine. That's his opinion. He can have

830
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 1: that opinion. Yeah. Well, and he seems to have just

831
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: taken umbrage viscerally with the idea that like he already

832
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: knew a bunch of this stuff, because you can't step

833
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: on somebody's feat I've learned that, Yeah, exactly. Well. I

834
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 1: think that's actually what was a huge part of why

835
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: he wrote this. It seemed that he was saying, like

836
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: I knew all of this, and we in this community

837
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 1: knew all of them, but one thing, and my sources

838
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: are cool that I talk to people at the companies

839
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: and I talked to the government. They're all, I think

840
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: this is fine. Yeah, he says, if you deal here,

841
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: He says, if you look at the actual details at

842
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: shows some fairly basic and innocuous information sharing with nothing

843
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: even remotely looking like pressure on the companies to take

844
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: down information. But the bottom line here is that that

845
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: happens all of the time in media and reporting, and

846
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: it has to because everyone can't pay attention to every

847
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 1: detail all at once, So you have to lay out

848
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 1: things that are maybe sort of public on some database,

849
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: government database that only industry people ever pay attention to,

850
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: which is how they bury a lot of this, and

851
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: it's how a lot of people never know. I mean,

852
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: go to the Pharah database, go to Parah dot gov,

853
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: type in any random country and click on one of

854
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: the one of the disclosures, and you will learn a

855
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: hell of a lot as a private citizen that the

856
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: media is not telling you. These things just sit on

857
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: government databases and you need to then flesh it out

858
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,240
Speaker 1: in reporting to the that's what I want as reader,

859
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: that's what readers want. They want it all sort of

860
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: put in one place on a long article like that,

861
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: which must have been some three thousand words. That's just

862
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: a guess. Yeah, and so it's the next element. The

863
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: ACLU won, I don't know if we have that one,

864
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: if we don't have it all three it says the ACLU,

865
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,760
Speaker 1: in response to our story, said, the First Amendment bars

866
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 1: the government from nice, thank you, from deciding for us

867
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: what is true or false online or anywhere. Our government

868
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: can't use private pressure to get around our constitutional rights.

869
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 1: And so it comes down to the question then of

870
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,720
Speaker 1: what is pressure, and a is a phone called conference

871
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: call from the Department of Homeland Security to a company pressure. Yes,

872
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: he seems to think it's not just helpful government. But

873
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 1: at the same time they're resistant to it. So what

874
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: are they resistant to? They're resistant to pressure. According to

875
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: the ACLU, this is something that the government cannot do

876
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: around the First Amendment. And our tips dropped into a

877
00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: government database by government officials and mass pressure, Yes, because

878
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: they're coming to the government that has power to regulate you.

879
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: If the government wants to do that publicly, then they

880
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: should do that publicly if they have some massive national

881
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: security thing like hey, just fyis somebody published the nuclear codes? Fine, okay,

882
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: also change your nuclear codes. We'll do that. You get

883
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: the two factor of verivocation factor on your nuclear weapons

884
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: at the bare minimum. But before we jump off of

885
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: this segment, I want to say one final thing, which

886
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: is I think the foundational issue here is a foundational

887
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: issue in our society period, which is that identity politics

888
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: have been exploited by oligarchs and by powerful people to

889
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: abuse our rights and to encroach on our rights. Which

890
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: is to say, they use identity politics to expand the

891
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 1: definition of what constitutes hate, what constitutes disinformation. And I'm

892
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: not saying this is the case always, but it is

893
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: part of it that they have been able to expand

894
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: the definition of what constitutes disinformation, what constitutes hate speech,

895
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 1: what constitutes bigotry and incitement to a level that implicates

896
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,439
Speaker 1: ordinary across the political spectrum and encroaches on their rights

897
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: and allows the government to encroach on their rights. And

898
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: until we can find consensus definitions for those terms, we

899
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: haven't always had them, but until we can come back

900
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 1: to a place where we have consensus definitions on those terms,

901
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: we're going to continue to be that's going to be

902
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: exploited by powerful people from here on now, Buddy, the

903
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: attempt to arrive at these consensus decisions should not involve

904
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,240
Speaker 1: the government, and it certainly should not involve the Department

905
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: of Homeland Security right behind closed doors, unelected people. Absolutely not,

906
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: absolutely not. Anyway, what's your point today, all right? My

907
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: point is it's a pre me midterm point. So, in

908
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: a last ditch midterm move, Joe Biden doubled down on

909
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: democrats dubious campaign strategy, a little alliteration there unintentionally Wednesday night,

910
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 1: waxing poetic about the fate of American democracy, invoking January

911
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: sixth and condemning quote extreme maga Republicans. Now, on its face,

912
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: the strategy seems silly given that Democrats continue fixating on

913
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: January sixth and quote semi fascism when voters are moving

914
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 1: away from them on the generic ballot and seem clearly

915
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: more interested in hearing about candidates plans to deal with

916
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: inflation and gas prices and urban decay. But as we've

917
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 1: said here repeatedly, while the legacy media often simplifies these

918
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 1: issues into super clean narratives. It's really not that simple.

919
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 1: Mid Term elections are about turning out your base. Democrats

920
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: think the democracy message raises the stakes for their voters.

921
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 1: They think it's the thing that gets people who prefer

922
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: Democrats to the polls rather than sitting Tuesday out. Now,

923
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 1: there are two big problems with that strategy I want

924
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: to highlight because I think they vote bode very poorly

925
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: for the future of the country. First, all of Biden's

926
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: primetime babbling about democracy is inflammatory because he's asking the

927
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: American people for trust his party does not deserve, without

928
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: even explaining why they deserve it in his opinion. Let

929
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: me read an excerpt from Biden's speech on Wednesday, quote,

930
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 1: I hope you'll ask a simple question of each candidate

931
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: you might vote for. Biden said, will that person accept

932
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: the legitimate will of the American people and the people

933
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: voting in his district or her district? Will that person

934
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: accept the outcome of the election, win or lose? The

935
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: answer to that question, says Biden, is vital. This is

936
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: extremely inflammatory because when it comes to Biden himself, just

937
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 1: a few years ago, the answer to every single one

938
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: of those vital questions was no. The Russians hacked our election.

939
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 1: Russia hacked our election. Russia hacked our elect Russian hacking

940
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 1: of our election, hacking of our our election, Russia hacked

941
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: our election, Russia hacked our elections, stole an election, Russia

942
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: hacked our election. The universal assessment that Russia hacked our

943
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: elections pay sixteen packed our elections. Most young Americans consider

944
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: Donald Trump an illegitimate president, illegitimate president, an illegitimate Why

945
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: is he a legitimate He just won an election. He's

946
00:50:55,760 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: an illegitimate president in my mind, that's it. I absolutely agree.

947
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: Experts urged Clinton camp to challenge election results. We will

948
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 1: see how illegitimate his victory actually was. He's an illegitimate president.

949
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: Russia hacked our election, questions, hacking our election, election, Russia

950
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: hacking our electional city president as a legitimate president. Trump

951
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: is an illegitimate president who stole the election. He is

952
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: not a President's illegitimate and my biggest fear is that

953
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 1: he's going to do it again with the help of

954
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 1: lad his best past terrified. Would you be my vice president?

955
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: It wasn't just Biden, it was Hillary Clinton, Carne Jean Pierre,

956
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 1: members of Congress, Stacy Abrams, talk show hosts, and millions

957
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 1: of Democratic voters who signed petitions for the Electoral College

958
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: to swing the vote to Clinton. And a lot of

959
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,760
Speaker 1: that was based on a full blown conspiracy theory about

960
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: Russian hacking and collusion. Remember when much of the legacy

961
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 1: media insisted John Fetterman was relatively sharp and healthy until

962
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: he actually went into the public without a filter, and

963
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: that spin just crashed and burned in real time. The

964
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 1: lesson was about more than just one Senate race. The

965
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: lesson was huge. Our media has the power to construct

966
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 1: false realities. It's obviously aligance with Chomsky's famous manufacturing consent theory,

967
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,879
Speaker 1: but remember that what they're actually manufacturing is all of reality. Now.

968
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: They can make crimes seem better or worse. They can

969
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: make wars seem just or unjust. They can make food

970
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: seem healthier unhealthy. Election denial is owned only by extreme

971
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:26,359
Speaker 1: maga Republicans, while Democrats' hands are just totally clean. Now

972
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: because of new media, they're starting to lose some control

973
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: of the narrative. Holes are getting popped in the bubble.

974
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: You don't have to be a Fox News viewer to

975
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: see videos of Democrats in their own words, demanding funny

976
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: business from the electoral College and engaging in the same

977
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 1: nonsense Trump did, even on the same level from Hillary

978
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 1: Clinton and former President Carter themselves. Now, did it lead

979
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: to a riot at the Capitol? Thankfully no, But the

980
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: media also memory hold the riots and the rioters that

981
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: smashed windows, threw bricks at cops, and set fires in

982
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: the streets during Trump's inauguration in twenty seventeen. I know

983
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: at least one journalist who went to the hospital, but

984
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: nobody really cared after the dust settle. That Joe Biden,

985
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: Democrats and journalists are asking the public to trust them

986
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,439
Speaker 1: to stand up to quote election deniers without taking any

987
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: accountability or even offering an explanation for this ostensible hypocrisy

988
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: is an abuse of power, a grave political error, and

989
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: a blow to institutional legitimacy. Now, of course, while we

990
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 1: should expect purportedly neutral journalists to hold everyone accountable equally,

991
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: we don't really expect politicians to hold themselves to that

992
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: same standard. But Joe Biden is clearly clearly not the

993
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: person to make this message, nor is his press secretary.

994
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:45,399
Speaker 1: His highfile profile candidate in Georgia has many other high

995
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: profile surrogates like Hillary Clinton or others. But hey, they

996
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 1: do it anyway. Now. The second problem with the democracy

997
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: strategy was illustrated really well this week by a CBS

998
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: News poll. Quote. We asked, simply, what concerns you more?

999
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: Whether the US will have a strong economy or have

1000
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,240
Speaker 1: a functioning democracy, reported CBS on their own poll, adding

1001
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: the nation is closely split. That doesn't mean people don't

1002
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: want both, but those more concerned about democracy are backing

1003
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans draw most of those more concerned about

1004
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 1: a strong economy, echoing the message of the party's campaigns. Okay,

1005
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 1: so that false binary is very very telling. Let me

1006
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: again read CBS's own words. We asked, simply, what concerns

1007
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 1: you more? They said, whether the US will have a

1008
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:38,959
Speaker 1: strong economy or a functioning democracy. That they separate these

1009
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: two priorities is, of course in acceptance of Biden's false premise,

1010
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 1: but it's also an illustration of what the political establishment

1011
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 1: does not get well. They're preoccupied with abstract conversations about

1012
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: the soul of America. Much of the public sees the

1013
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: failure of American democracy as an economy that doesn't work

1014
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 1: for the middle class. As cities that are getting more

1015
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 1: dangerous and tragic. So while CBS says, hey, actually, yeah,

1016
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 1: people can want both in theory, the democracy champions in

1017
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 1: the administration and the media never ever talk about those

1018
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: two things in the same breath. Ever, a functioning democracy

1019
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 1: and a healthy constitutional public should mean an economy that

1020
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 1: supports upward mobility and a healthy middle class. It means

1021
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,439
Speaker 1: cities that are safe, not dominated by one party rule

1022
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 1: for decades that leaves no room for debate or difference

1023
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: or improvement that bucks the part is an orthodoxy. It

1024
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: means a public square not threatened by a public private

1025
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: partnership to censor dissent. It means an intelligence community narrowly

1026
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 1: focused on direct security concerns, not encroaching on people's freedom

1027
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: to speak and organize because they disagree with the political establishment.

1028
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 1: It means a media that doesn't say what it does

1029
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: is balls and strikes, just calling balls and strikes neutrality

1030
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: and then treats everyone without fear or favor. It means

1031
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 1: a market that rewards corporations who contribute to the common

1032
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: good and punishes those who abuse their power over workers.

1033
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: In politics, but of course that's not what democrats and

1034
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 1: journalists and media executives mean by quote functioning democracy to

1035
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: borrow CBS's words, they want to purge their distractors, especially

1036
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,919
Speaker 1: the working class ones, rather than actually dealing with their concerns,

1037
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: because that would mean admitting sometimes the people they look

1038
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: down on have a point that CBS News poll was

1039
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 1: too good for me to so. The family of Paul

1040
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 1: Pelosi announced last night that Pelosi had finally left the hospital.

1041
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 1: How many days after the attack Thursday. I actually didn't

1042
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 1: realize that he had still been in the hospital from

1043
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: what would that be early Sunday morning until Thursday? No,

1044
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: it was Friday morning. It was Thursday night that he went. Okay, right, okay,

1045
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: so nearly a week I remember, Yes, in a surgery. Yeah,

1046
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 1: that's a I mean, obviously very intensive. That is that

1047
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: he was in the ICU, as we talked about last week,

1048
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: a serious head injury like that, and he left with

1049
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 1: a fractured skull who can lead to enormous amounts of

1050
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 1: swelling inside the brain, which then can be fatal. You know,

1051
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: it makes sense, of course for an occagenarian who had

1052
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: gotten a blow to the head from a hammer to

1053
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 1: be hospitalized for a long period of time. To require

1054
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: the ICU to require surgical intervention. So it's not necessarily surprising,

1055
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 1: but we are still really trying to piece together details

1056
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 1: of the story because actually the amount of information that's

1057
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 1: been public, it's sort of getting parceled out day by

1058
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 1: day as we kind of try to put the puzzle

1059
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 1: pieces together, and one of that is, you know, the condition.

1060
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: One of those pieces is the condition of Paul Pelosi.

1061
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 1: There are a couple of others that we wanted to

1062
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 1: talk about, and we'll start with first the fact that

1063
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 1: David Pape, the suspect in the situation, is in the

1064
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: country illegally. I believe he's Canadian. Is it's like all

1065
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: these stories turn into like culture war Bingo's and he's

1066
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 1: an illegal immigrant and as the Republicans are now hitting

1067
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: him with and a sanctuary state and so everything getting

1068
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 1: caught up in Yeah. So, yes, he was a Canadian

1069
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: citizen who went to Mexico entered in two thousand and

1070
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 1: eight into the United States through Mexico, ye two thousand

1071
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 1: and eight on a visitor's visa, which often is like

1072
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: I think a six months stay, and he'd come stayed. Yeah,

1073
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 1: so he came in on a B two visa and

1074
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 1: that typically allows if you're Canadian, that allows you, i think,

1075
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,439
Speaker 1: for like six months to stay in the country. And again,

1076
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: is it a B two Yeah, according to it's a

1077
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 1: temp work visa. It says, it typically allows Canadian visitors

1078
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 1: to stay for six months. And then he he then

1079
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 1: overstayed that B two visa. Oh beat B two or

1080
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 1: V two B two B two okay, h okay anyway,

1081
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 1: so yes, so he's here, he was here illegally. By

1082
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: the way, our system shouldn't be this alphabet soup of nonsense,

1083
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: like it's it's just so convoluted that this is exactly

1084
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 1: how you get people overstaying different visas, because we've just

1085
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: confused the system to the point where enforcement is virtually impossible. Now,

1086
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 1: of course, in this case, being in a sanctuary state

1087
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: made enforcement literally impossible. It's also the dirty secret of

1088
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 1: immigration policy is that a wall does nothing about this.

1089
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 1: It does very little. And visa well, it does literally

1090
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 1: nothing about visa oversteps, about visa overseaers, about crossers. So

1091
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 1: what the wall does and Border patrol says this, but

1092
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 1: it crossed legally, it funnels you, right, yeah, exactly. So

1093
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 1: the purpose of the wall, as people say it is

1094
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: it funnels you to a certain point of the border,

1095
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 1: which makes capture easier. So you don't have people who

1096
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: are crossing without security having any idea and not sort

1097
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 1: of registering and saying this person, this person. All that

1098
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 1: is to say, the visa process is a mess. We

1099
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: talked about this in the dam semi chips segment last

1100
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 1: week that we can't even it's such a mess. We

1101
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: can't even get people can't hire people that they need

1102
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: to know to build the semiconductors the industry that we

1103
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: say we want to build. So that's a tangent. But

1104
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 1: there was also also new reporting about the role of

1105
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: the Capitol Police. So it turns out that the Capitol

1106
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: Police did install cameras outside of Pelosi's San Francisco home

1107
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 1: Pelosi was in Washington, d c. I. It sounds like

1108
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 1: it sounds like it was one of those movies where

1109
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 1: the security guard is like looking away. The way that

1110
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 1: the Washing Post described it here is that a Capitol

1111
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: Police guard came back, saw lights outside of the home

1112
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 1: and then was like uh oh, and rewinds the tape

1113
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 1: and then sees the pape smashing his way in with

1114
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:38,439
Speaker 1: a hammer. But they have not they have not put

1115
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: this video out and the longer and what I think

1116
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,959
Speaker 1: that the authorities need to start realizing is that every

1117
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: second that they're not putting information out, somebody's filling that

1118
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 1: vacuum with speculation. And so I think that they have

1119
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: to just change the way that they relate to public

1120
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: disclosures of information, Like they do not have a monopoly

1121
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 1: over attention anymore. If they don't put a video out,

1122
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 1: someone else is gonna like Danesh to Sueza is going

1123
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 1: to be like, well, two twenty seven am must have

1124
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 1: been like a sex worker. So I think I'm curious.

1125
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: Also in the Washington Post article, it says some security.

1126
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,479
Speaker 1: So what happened is nat Nancy Pelosi left home and

1127
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 1: the Washington Post says some of the security, It may

1128
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: have even said most of the security went with her.

1129
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 1: I'm still very conpised she was in DC, right, right, right,

1130
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 1: so right most of it went with her to DC.

1131
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 1: So when you're using words like some and most, that

1132
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 1: could mean a lot of different things. And I'm still

1133
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: genuinely very curious about the situation with the security at

1134
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:49,919
Speaker 1: the Pelosi home, and not for conspiratorial reasons, but because hey,

1135
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 1: not great for the social fabric. If we get into

1136
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 1: a late sixties situation where people are being violently targeted

1137
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 1: and attacked, and god forbid, it gets even worse. So

1138
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 1: from that perspective, it's very curious to me why the

1139
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: speaker of the house's speaker of the house's husband was

1140
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: at their home and somebody is able to break into

1141
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: a glass door with a hammer. That's very strange to me.

1142
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 1: And the security, the extent of the security they had

1143
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 1: was footage was CCTV across the country at the capitol.

1144
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 1: Police like that, What can they do? I mean, they

1145
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: can dispatch security right away, but there should be security.

1146
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: If if they had called the police right away, maybe

1147
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't maybe it doesn't escalate to like what it

1148
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 1: got to. I'd still like to know whether there was

1149
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 1: security on the campus or on the property in the

1150
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: residents period, whether that was private security, whether it was

1151
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: public security. I'm very curious about that. It seems super

1152
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: strange to me. What continues to seem strange to me

1153
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 1: is how, according to the report that was filed, the

1154
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 1: police report that was filed, the officers open, they knocked,

1155
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 1: they get there, they knocked, and they're told to come in.

1156
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 1: They opened the door and the Pape and Pelosi are

1157
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 1: struggling over a hammer, and it's when they say, is

1158
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 1: everything okay? Like what the heck is going on? Pape

1159
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 1: says weirdly like yeah, we're all good, which sounds like

1160
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 1: something a criminal drug person who's like tripping on something

1161
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: might say. But then it's he's able, with the police

1162
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 1: right there, to take the hammer from Pelosi and whack

1163
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 1: him in the head without police intervention. I mean, it's sure,

1164
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 1: it's plausible that this all happens really quickly, but to

1165
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 1: your point, like, I actually still think there are some

1166
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: dots that need to be connected, and I feel like

1167
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 1: there has been an unwillingness to be forthcoming with information,

1168
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 1: while at the same time Joe Biden is perfectly willing

1169
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 1: to use it in his speech, But we still don't

1170
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: actually really know how some of this happened. It's very

1171
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think they should put the body

1172
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 1: cam footage out as soon as possible, But he himself

1173
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 1: have the Pape has been very clear that and he

1174
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 1: is anything he said what his motive was right right,

1175
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 1: And he's an example of this increasing phenomenon of the

1176
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 1: hippie to QAnon pipeline. Yes, yes, so a lot of

1177
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 1: people who haven't been paying attention to the transformation of

1178
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 1: our politics would be surprised. And next segment will play

1179
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: Jesse Waters talking about how he was an Obama voting person,

1180
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 1: nudist the bug and if you haven't been paying attention

1181
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:28,919
Speaker 1: then to you, it's totally surprising that a person who

1182
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:32,439
Speaker 1: is like pro nudist and like an Obama supporter would

1183
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 1: now be a right wing QAnon person. By the way,

1184
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 1: but that pipeline is greasy as hell. People are sliding

1185
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,120
Speaker 1: through their super fast, and it's been like that for

1186
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 1: a few years. And if you haven't been paying attention

1187
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 1: to it, pay attention to it, because it's especially been

1188
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:49,320
Speaker 1: accelerated by vaccine mandates and by COVID. The hippie to

1189
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 1: QAnon pipeline, or even the hippie qan on sort of

1190
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 1: horseshoes because the hippies already had the skepticism of authority

1191
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 1: and the transgressive counter culture attitude. There's not a place

1192
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 1: for that as much on the left except in proscribed ways.

1193
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: You kind of have to go over to the right

1194
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 1: now to get your freak on. So I was gonna

1195
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 1: say so people don't think that Ryan is like speaking

1196
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 1: in anything but reverence for hippies. I feel like you

1197
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: are speaking as a yeah, yeah, right, yeah, you know

1198
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 1: one hundred percent. You have not gone full Q. No,

1199
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 1: you haven't gone even the tiny bit queue. But you

1200
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 1: understand where the sort of appeal is to the hippie.

1201
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: That sort of says, and by the way, like old

1202
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 1: school leftist. And we've seen this happen with some old

1203
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: school leftists who seem, you know, to go off the

1204
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 1: rails because they're looking around and they cannot find a

1205
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 1: single institution that is worthy of their trust, and that

1206
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 1: puts people in dangerous directions right and right. And there

1207
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 1: was a and I believe this guy was part of it,

1208
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 1: the whole nine eleven conspiracy, which I think, to the

1209
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 1: kind of American left's credit, just tamp that down like

1210
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 1: stop it, like stop it with the the steel plates

1211
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 1: melting in the towers and like all of this nonsense.

1212
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:10,720
Speaker 1: I don't think the left really shut that down very effectively.

1213
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: But you're saying the mainstream left, yeah, up, like the

1214
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 1: anything resembling like a remotely respectable left, Like you had

1215
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 1: one member of Congress who floated it, and they primaried

1216
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: her and ended her career. Cynthia McKinney down in Georgia,

1217
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: whereas Republicans you can you can say whatever you want

1218
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 1: nowadays and it's probably gonna help you in a primary, right. Well,

1219
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 1: Marjorie Tayler Green, also from Georgia, had was forced to

1220
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:42,120
Speaker 1: walk back Q was forced to walk back nine to

1221
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 1: eleven trutherism. And that's actually kind of an interesting parallel

1222
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 1: with something the McKinney and someone should write it if

1223
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: they haven't, that the parties like pushed both of them

1224
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 1: to disavowed the like fringe conspiracy theory. And at the

1225
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 1: same time that if I think corporate medias really struggle

1226
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 1: to understand, like here, we've got better can spiracy theories

1227
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 1: for yeh wait till you hear about the p tape.

1228
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 1: But I think David Depaipe I think a reason a

1229
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 1: lot of the corporate media struggled to sort of square

1230
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 1: the circle of the hippie nudist and not even just

1231
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: corporate media, conservative media square just failed to square that

1232
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 1: circle is because despite the fact that they have highly

1233
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 1: paid disinformation reporters on their freaking payrolls, they don't actually

1234
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 1: know a damn thing about Q. They truly don't know

1235
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 1: with the makeup of the fringe right and left guard

1236
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 1: because they operate on crude stereotypes. Even when it's their

1237
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 1: job to troll Reddit. They can never challenge their priors

1238
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 1: enough to let go and see. Actually, some of these

1239
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:40,640
Speaker 1: people are legitimately from the old school left. They're legitimately

1240
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 1: coming at this from the perspective of people who have

1241
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 1: been hurt by our system, who have been through pain

1242
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 1: at the hands of our system, and who don't trust

1243
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 1: the right thing anymore. Right, the media hears Q and

1244
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 1: they expect they're going to get a bearded guy with

1245
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: a stained T shirt like an AK forty seven and

1246
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 1: a gigantic flag on his pickup ye, and then they're

1247
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 1: surprised if if it's a hippie looking do and if

1248
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 1: you've been paying attention, you're like, no, no, no, it's

1249
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:08,560
Speaker 1: those hippies who are making up the backbone in some

1250
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 1: ways of the of the far right. Look at the

1251
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 1: shaman being like one example, also often like blended with

1252
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:20,959
Speaker 1: you know, acute and also like prolonged mental health crises

1253
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:23,840
Speaker 1: like that's that's a significant portion of what's going on

1254
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 1: here as well with the shaman, What earth is this?

1255
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 1: You know? I think the thing, the thing with the

1256
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 1: pape is there was Similarly, I think it was also

1257
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:34,599
Speaker 1: like a release valve as we started to get more

1258
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 1: information and reasonably so right like we could say, there

1259
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 1: was a lot of celebration I think on the left

1260
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:42,680
Speaker 1: and saying like, listen, we know the details, and now

1261
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 1: we're going to stuff the conspiracy theorist's face in the

1262
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 1: dirt and just just smear it around and say like

1263
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 1: you idiots, et cetera, et cetera. But the fact of

1264
01:08:52,320 --> 01:08:54,640
Speaker 1: the matter is people have lost trust, and they have

1265
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 1: lost trust for good reason. A lack of institutional faith

1266
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 1: is reasonable. You are unreasoned if you have faith in

1267
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,919
Speaker 1: the Department of Homeland Security and in our intelligence community

1268
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 1: and in our FBI. That's the unreasonable position. And that's

1269
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 1: not to say conspiracy theories should be legitimized whatsoever. But

1270
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 1: the people in the legacy media whose instinct is just

1271
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 1: to shove people's face in it and rub it around

1272
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 1: instead of saying, actually, we kind of understand why people

1273
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 1: were like wait, wait, wait, dude busted into the speaker

1274
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 1: of the house's home with a hammer and beat her

1275
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 1: husband in front of the police. It sounds weird. It's

1276
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 1: a weird story. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction, though,

1277
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: But I do think that the the folks who like

1278
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:43,599
Speaker 1: dabble with and engage in these conspiracy theories aren't at

1279
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:47,600
Speaker 1: all directly responsible for you know, the individual agency of

1280
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:54,680
Speaker 1: a particular person. But you're creating, you're creating an atmosphere

1281
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 1: that is likely going to produce more violence and more

1282
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 1: I think so and more lashing out. And so in

1283
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:04,360
Speaker 1: that sense, there there is some responsibility. And so you

1284
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:08,600
Speaker 1: know this. You know, we're we we we can, we

1285
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:11,280
Speaker 1: can head in different directions. We are we are all.

1286
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:15,080
Speaker 1: We're a society that does have agency. We're not just

1287
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 1: kind of you know, directed in a part in a

1288
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:24,120
Speaker 1: particular way by immovable forces. Like we can we can decide,

1289
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:27,639
Speaker 1: uh to kind of pull back from the brink on

1290
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 1: on some of this stuff. So doesn't mean necessarily to

1291
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:33,160
Speaker 1: rub people's face in it, But I do think there's

1292
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 1: got to be some way to say, look, this is

1293
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:37,840
Speaker 1: serious stuff like if if if she were home, he

1294
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 1: probably doesn't get in so the chance that he could

1295
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 1: actually have hopefully killed her, But we don't want to

1296
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:44,599
Speaker 1: kill it, he said, He wanted to break her knees,

1297
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 1: he wanted to hold show shows, like another level of

1298
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 1: mental illness. The thing is like, we don't know what

1299
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 1: would have happened had she been there, because we know

1300
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:56,559
Speaker 1: there would have been more security, but we actually don't

1301
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:59,640
Speaker 1: really know what the security lapse was. Yeah, and I

1302
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 1: think we will and I can be patient for all

1303
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 1: those details. We don't need to get them all in

1304
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 1: the first week. But I would love I think Capital

1305
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 1: Police that was a security lapse on January sixth. We

1306
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 1: want to be making comparisons, and we need our law

1307
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: enforcement obviously for the sake of social fabric and the

1308
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 1: fact that we're all paying our money into the system

1309
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:19,519
Speaker 1: to protect the people that we elect. I would love

1310
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 1: to know what the security situation was there. To your point,

1311
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:25,840
Speaker 1: I agree, although I would say it doesn't mean that

1312
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 1: we can't demand answers from people in positions of power,

1313
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 1: and I think the reflex to treat people like that

1314
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 1: as conspiracy theorists is unhealthy. But I also think, yeah,

1315
01:11:36,479 --> 01:11:38,080
Speaker 1: I agree with you. The fact that we can't be

1316
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:41,240
Speaker 1: reasonable about some of this stuff is it's dangerous. It's

1317
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 1: outright dangerous. And speaking of the hippie to QAnon pipeline.

1318
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:49,880
Speaker 1: There was some reporting that the place where he was

1319
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 1: sort of living had served as a basically makeshift IBA

1320
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: game clinic, And so we're going to talk about that

1321
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 1: with the country's foremost I be again expert in the

1322
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:04,960
Speaker 1: next segment. Stick around for that. So, the fairly obscure

1323
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 1: drug ibogain has made a cameo into the story around

1324
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:11,720
Speaker 1: Paul Pelosi and his alleged attacker, David Depape. Let's roll

1325
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 1: this clip from Fox News Jesse Waters. So people are

1326
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 1: saying de Pape was a Obama supporter who is psychotic

1327
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:23,960
Speaker 1: and paranoid and a heavy drug user. A neighbor say

1328
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:27,680
Speaker 1: the Pape was taking a psychedelic drug called ibocaine that

1329
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 1: made him imagine invisibil invisible fairy friends, and he often

1330
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:35,679
Speaker 1: ranted on his blogs about not being able to buy

1331
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 1: a faery house with doors. I think this is the

1332
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:42,360
Speaker 1: first time that our friend Jesse Waters has heard of

1333
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:45,720
Speaker 1: the drug. He mispronounced it. But to get a real

1334
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 1: one oh one on it, we wanted to bring in

1335
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 1: really the country's foremost expert on ibogain. So joining us

1336
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:57,680
Speaker 1: now is Alan Davis, PhD. He's the director of the

1337
01:12:57,760 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 1: Center for Psychedelic Drug Research and Education, Assistant Professor at

1338
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 1: the College of Social Work, Department Psychology at Johns Hopkins University.

1339
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:07,880
Speaker 1: Did I get all of that right or I get

1340
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 1: or any additional titles to throw that sounds sounds good

1341
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 1: enough for tonight? Thank you, so thank you. First of all,

1342
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you so much for joining us. You've done,

1343
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 1: You've done so much academic work on I be again.

1344
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 1: First of all, what did you think when you saw

1345
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 1: it kind of bubble up in the in the national

1346
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 1: media for this one blip of a second. Honestly, it

1347
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:33,759
Speaker 1: was a little bit surprising. I think in the hype

1348
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:36,600
Speaker 1: of what's been reported on about this incident, that was

1349
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:38,920
Speaker 1: the least thing I thought was going to come up

1350
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 1: in the media. So a little bit surprised. And so

1351
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about I begained. Tell what

1352
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 1: what is it? So? I begain is a dissociated psychedelic drug.

1353
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 1: It is broadly in the same category as other things

1354
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 1: like psilocybin and LSD, although it does differ somewhat in

1355
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: how it used and in what kinds of experiences it

1356
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:04,800
Speaker 1: brings about in people. And can you tell us more

1357
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:09,360
Speaker 1: about what those experiences might be for the average eybogain user.

1358
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 1: And then in that context of Jesse waters aside, what

1359
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 1: could have possibly been happening if the attacker had consumed

1360
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:23,000
Speaker 1: ibogain in the time before the attack. So one thing

1361
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:25,200
Speaker 1: that's important to keep in mind is that i begain

1362
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:29,679
Speaker 1: is very rarely used recreationally. In fact, I would hazard

1363
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:33,799
Speaker 1: to guess that it's almost never used recreationally. In general.

1364
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:37,559
Speaker 1: I begain is used as a therapeutic drug in places

1365
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 1: outside of the United States to treat addiction and other

1366
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 1: types of mental health problems. For those that do perhaps

1367
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:46,000
Speaker 1: use it for non therapeutic reasons, maybe for their own

1368
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 1: psychological or spiritual development, it's often used still with that

1369
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:53,200
Speaker 1: kind of intention. So the idea that i begain would

1370
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 1: be used as a recreational drug ongoing misused in that

1371
01:14:57,040 --> 01:15:00,880
Speaker 1: way seems very unlikely to me. And more to the point,

1372
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:04,920
Speaker 1: and you've you know, you've covered or whatever. We don't

1373
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 1: know what the academic word is for a lot, you know,

1374
01:15:07,439 --> 01:15:11,160
Speaker 1: a lot of treatment sessions. And so to me, the

1375
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:15,679
Speaker 1: idea that somebody on eye again could even leave their

1376
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 1: leave where they were strains all credulity like you are

1377
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 1: so kind of debilitated by the drug for so long

1378
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 1: that it seems implausible that you could do anything at all.

1379
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:32,960
Speaker 1: Is Can you describe what it's like to go through

1380
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:36,600
Speaker 1: the experience. Yeah, that's a great summary of it. Honestly,

1381
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:40,080
Speaker 1: the experience with ibergain is something that usually people are

1382
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 1: lying on a bed. They are immobilized to a large

1383
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 1: degree for most of the acute drug effects. And again

1384
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:50,799
Speaker 1: because it's used with this therapeutic intention, in most cases,

1385
01:15:51,479 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 1: it is a time for people to reflect Inwardly, they're

1386
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 1: getting they art potentially having hallucinations. Often they're getting psychological insights.

1387
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:02,799
Speaker 1: Typically they're reliving some of the most difficult and challenging

1388
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:06,080
Speaker 1: times of their life. This is not your kind of

1389
01:16:06,120 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 1: run of the mill club drug. This is something that

1390
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 1: is frankly quite difficult for a lot of people to

1391
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 1: go through because of the things that it brings up psychologically. So, yes,

1392
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:17,600
Speaker 1: it would be very surprising to me if someone was,

1393
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 1: you know, quote unquote on I again and able to

1394
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:25,040
Speaker 1: be mobile and doing things. Yeah. And I think also

1395
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:27,519
Speaker 1: one of the reasons Ryan I know, wanted to cover

1396
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:31,960
Speaker 1: this is to ask what therapeutic benefits exist with ibogain,

1397
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 1: which is not legal. To my knowledge in the United States.

1398
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 1: I believe it's legal in Mexico. But there's evidence as

1399
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:42,840
Speaker 1: I understand that ibogain as a sort of therapeutic intervention

1400
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:48,760
Speaker 1: for folks can be powerful and can have some efficacy.

1401
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 1: Can you tell us about what the evidence suggests. I mean,

1402
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:54,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people probably think as we're talking about

1403
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:57,080
Speaker 1: drugs like this of ayahuasca, which is much more commonly

1404
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 1: known in the States, but what is the evidence when

1405
01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:03,160
Speaker 1: it comes specifically to ibogain. So there is a growing

1406
01:17:03,479 --> 01:17:06,799
Speaker 1: body of research that has been looking at this very question,

1407
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:09,880
Speaker 1: in part because people, including some of the research I've

1408
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:13,559
Speaker 1: done on US military veterans, have been going to Mexico

1409
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:17,720
Speaker 1: and other places abroad to get treatment for mental health problems,

1410
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 1: in part because they viewed the current treatment offerings in

1411
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:24,000
Speaker 1: the United States as insufficient. And what we're seeing in

1412
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:26,840
Speaker 1: the research is that for people with addiction, for people

1413
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 1: with PTSD, anxiety depression, for a whole host of different problems,

1414
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 1: people are reporting that after they have an iby gaining experience,

1415
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:38,280
Speaker 1: that they are feeling better, that their symptoms are improved.

1416
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:42,080
Speaker 1: And it's even to the point where where now there

1417
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:45,519
Speaker 1: are several clinical trials that are in the planning phases

1418
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 1: in order to start testing this in a medical system

1419
01:17:48,479 --> 01:17:51,400
Speaker 1: here in the US. And when you talked about the

1420
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 1: way that you're completely immobilized and that people aren't doing

1421
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:57,720
Speaker 1: it recreationally, I think an important layer of context to

1422
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:01,479
Speaker 1: add to that is that it's utterly, from what I understand,

1423
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:05,320
Speaker 1: I've done ayahuasca, but not not I again, utterly terrifying,

1424
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:09,479
Speaker 1: like horrifying, like it the experience that people are only

1425
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:13,160
Speaker 1: undergoing because they've tried everything else and they've they've hit

1426
01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:17,320
Speaker 1: rock bottom, and but they but they desperately want to change.

1427
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:22,560
Speaker 1: There's been some reporting that Hunter Biden went to Mexico

1428
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:26,040
Speaker 1: and and was able to successfully credit and to credit

1429
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 1: this with helping him become sober, with apparently the blessing

1430
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:33,559
Speaker 1: of his father. What do you what do you know

1431
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:37,040
Speaker 1: and what do we know about Hunter Biden's experience with

1432
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:40,479
Speaker 1: IB again, Well, I think what we know is that

1433
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:43,559
Speaker 1: it's consistent with the reports that we're finding in the

1434
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:46,320
Speaker 1: research studies that we've done following military veterans and other

1435
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:49,160
Speaker 1: people who are seeking out treatment in Mexico for the

1436
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:52,320
Speaker 1: same reason because the treatments that they've tried to date

1437
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:55,120
Speaker 1: have not worked. For them. And you're absolutely right that

1438
01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:58,559
Speaker 1: these experiences can be quite difficult and for some people

1439
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:01,719
Speaker 1: even traumatic, But it's worth it to go through it

1440
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 1: for some people because it does bring about for those

1441
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:09,160
Speaker 1: that experience benefit, a positive outcome. I should mention, though,

1442
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 1: that it doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Some people are

1443
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:14,880
Speaker 1: not going to respond to this treatment, but at the

1444
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:17,400
Speaker 1: same time, it seems that it's working better for some

1445
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:19,720
Speaker 1: than the treatments they have access to here in the States.

1446
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:22,400
Speaker 1: I have a two prong question, which is are there

1447
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:26,840
Speaker 1: dangers to having it criminalized and illegal in the United States?

1448
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:28,839
Speaker 1: That is to say, is the sort of black market

1449
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:31,840
Speaker 1: for ibogain something that should concern us? And second, the

1450
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:33,479
Speaker 1: second part of that question is if you could just

1451
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:36,680
Speaker 1: tell us what is ib again in nature? How is

1452
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:39,800
Speaker 1: it harvested, where does it appear in nature? And what's

1453
01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 1: the experience of sort of physically ingesting it what does

1454
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 1: that involved typically, So to answer the first question about

1455
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 1: the illegal drug market, I would imagine that the illegal

1456
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:51,799
Speaker 1: drug market for ibagain in the US is very small,

1457
01:19:52,280 --> 01:19:55,480
Speaker 1: in part because it is readily accessible in neighboring countries

1458
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:59,040
Speaker 1: and because it's relatively unknown. Very few people know about

1459
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:01,600
Speaker 1: it and given the difficult cult types of experiences that

1460
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:05,400
Speaker 1: can come up, it's again not something like alcohol or

1461
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:08,760
Speaker 1: caffeine that can be widely abused. So I think that

1462
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:11,040
Speaker 1: when I think about the illegal drug market, I think

1463
01:20:11,080 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 1: about the fact that, you know, the real dangers that

1464
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:15,720
Speaker 1: we have with our drug policy system here in the

1465
01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:18,400
Speaker 1: States is the fact that we classify these drugs as

1466
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:22,559
Speaker 1: very dangerous and illegal, and in fact they're safer on

1467
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 1: average than many other drugs like tobacco and alcohol that

1468
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:29,639
Speaker 1: are freely available and regulated. So yeah, I think from

1469
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:32,320
Speaker 1: that perspective, we're talking about substances that have very little

1470
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:36,240
Speaker 1: risk compared to others. To answer the other question, I

1471
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:40,519
Speaker 1: begain comes from a shrub in Western Africa, and the

1472
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:46,200
Speaker 1: alkaloid that I begain is can you know. It's typically

1473
01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:51,240
Speaker 1: extracted from there and ingested and the effects can come

1474
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:53,639
Speaker 1: on and last over the course of you know, twenty

1475
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:57,080
Speaker 1: four to seventy two hours, depending on the amount that's

1476
01:20:57,080 --> 01:21:00,679
Speaker 1: consumed and the metabolism of the individual. Typically within twenty

1477
01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:03,519
Speaker 1: four to thirty six hours people are on the tail

1478
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:06,280
Speaker 1: end of their experience. But during that time of the

1479
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 1: acute effect, people are almost in like a dream like

1480
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:13,240
Speaker 1: state where they're experiencing these these flashes, these memories, these

1481
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:16,760
Speaker 1: emotional experiences, as well as for some especially if they're

1482
01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:21,280
Speaker 1: dealing with withdrawal from another substance like opioids or alcohol,

1483
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:25,799
Speaker 1: they might be experiencing some withdrawal symptoms, although interestingly, people

1484
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:30,679
Speaker 1: report that the withdrawal symptoms after using eye again withdrawal

1485
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 1: from the drugs that they're trying to get off of

1486
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:36,479
Speaker 1: are actually quite reduced or almost completely gone, as opposed

1487
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 1: to other treatments that are available, which people have to

1488
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:41,800
Speaker 1: suffer through experiencing those withdrawal symtoms, which is one of

1489
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:44,880
Speaker 1: the benefits that people describe from seeking this treatment out.

1490
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:49,719
Speaker 1: And I've also heard of reports of heart complications related

1491
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:53,960
Speaker 1: to ie be again at the same time, though, most

1492
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:56,840
Speaker 1: people who are going to be using i be again

1493
01:21:56,960 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 1: already have severely compromised systems just from whatever you know,

1494
01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:05,920
Speaker 1: health trauma was, addiction crisis brought them to this point.

1495
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:10,760
Speaker 1: So maybe so maybe that plays a role in the

1496
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:14,720
Speaker 1: reports that you get around heart issues. But what do

1497
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:19,160
Speaker 1: what do we know about the cardiovascular question? So we

1498
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:21,719
Speaker 1: do know that there is a small risk for people,

1499
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 1: likely people who already have cardiac complications that there can

1500
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:30,000
Speaker 1: be a cardiac risk to consuming the drug. In fact,

1501
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:34,320
Speaker 1: when the centers that provide this treatment abroad in legal contexts,

1502
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 1: When when I'm evaluating whether or not that's a center

1503
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:39,519
Speaker 1: that's likely doing this on the up and up and

1504
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 1: not just trying to take people's money and not doing

1505
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 1: a good job, one of the things that I try

1506
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:47,080
Speaker 1: to look for is whether or not they're providing consistent

1507
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:52,040
Speaker 1: cardiac monitoring and screening for heart risk ahead of the treatment,

1508
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:55,160
Speaker 1: in part because of this this risk that does exist,

1509
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:57,040
Speaker 1: and it's a little bit of an unknown question right

1510
01:22:57,080 --> 01:22:59,519
Speaker 1: now whether that risk is you know, due to the

1511
01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:02,280
Speaker 1: fact of the drug and that it's just going to,

1512
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:06,240
Speaker 1: you know, with some predictability for some people produce this problem,

1513
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 1: or like you said, is it a combination of people's

1514
01:23:09,080 --> 01:23:12,800
Speaker 1: background and perhaps misusing of other substances that's creating this

1515
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:17,120
Speaker 1: possible risk. But either way, cardiac monitoring is recommended for

1516
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:20,000
Speaker 1: people who are seeking this treatment. And that brings us

1517
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:21,639
Speaker 1: back to day of the pape. When I saw that

1518
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:24,880
Speaker 1: picture that I think was it Michael Shallenberger that first

1519
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:28,080
Speaker 1: posted the photo of it, said, you know, miracle drug treatment,

1520
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:31,280
Speaker 1: and it was a reference to the kind of compound

1521
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:34,880
Speaker 1: where he was living in the Bay Area doing these

1522
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:37,720
Speaker 1: ibogaining treatments. It's like, oh my god, that's horrifying. Like

1523
01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:40,160
Speaker 1: what's horrifying on a couple levels. One, it's horrifying to

1524
01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:44,400
Speaker 1: think that people will be going through these treatments or

1525
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 1: these journeys in that type of setting without the kind

1526
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:51,439
Speaker 1: of medical backup that you're talking about. But it's also

1527
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:55,080
Speaker 1: if there is a market for that, that's also terrifying

1528
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:58,080
Speaker 1: because that means that there are so many people in

1529
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:00,240
Speaker 1: the Bay Area that have hit rock bottom that are

1530
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:02,880
Speaker 1: trying so desperately to get off that they that they

1531
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 1: will see this sign and that and and then just

1532
01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:09,240
Speaker 1: use this kind of off off label. It's a lot

1533
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:11,680
Speaker 1: of pain back ali back ali ib a gain. And

1534
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:16,320
Speaker 1: So what is the path from here to FDA approval?

1535
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:18,080
Speaker 1: Do you think it is? Do you think it is possible?

1536
01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 1: Is there is there anybody who is who is kind

1537
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:24,920
Speaker 1: of trying to push this through the process at Johns

1538
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:28,160
Speaker 1: Hopkins or anywhere else. Well, I think part of the

1539
01:24:28,240 --> 01:24:30,760
Speaker 1: challenge is that with any psychedelic right now, what we

1540
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:34,720
Speaker 1: see are continued public publications coming out about psychedelics and

1541
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:37,679
Speaker 1: their therapeutic benefit and because they have not been approved

1542
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:40,960
Speaker 1: yet by the FDA and they haven't been rescheduled by

1543
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:43,360
Speaker 1: the DEA part of the challenges. People are going to

1544
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:46,919
Speaker 1: continue seeking out these these you know, quote unquote treatments

1545
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:50,280
Speaker 1: in settings where they are not offered from medical professionals,

1546
01:24:50,680 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 1: and unfortunately, people who come in contact with folks in

1547
01:24:55,280 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 1: this underground market might actually have no idea what they're

1548
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:01,519
Speaker 1: actually taking. You know, someone could be saying that it's

1549
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:03,559
Speaker 1: I again, and it might be some other kind of

1550
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:07,880
Speaker 1: research chemical because of again it's unregulated here. So I think,

1551
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 1: you know, I hear quite often from people who have

1552
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:13,599
Speaker 1: you know, found an underground practitioner to use five meo

1553
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:16,559
Speaker 1: DMT or psilocybin and then ended up with you know,

1554
01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:19,719
Speaker 1: debilitating anxiety and in the emergency department because they weren't

1555
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 1: properly screened or monitored or followed up with clinically. So unfortunately,

1556
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:27,439
Speaker 1: these problems will continue to happen until we have I

1557
01:25:27,439 --> 01:25:30,040
Speaker 1: think FDA approval and we have legal access here to

1558
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:35,120
Speaker 1: safe administration and medical oversight of psychedelic experiences for therapeutic purposes.

1559
01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:39,400
Speaker 1: The path forward to see whether or not any psychedelic

1560
01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:42,960
Speaker 1: will be approved will have to involve academic research, and

1561
01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:45,639
Speaker 1: we're involved in those clinical trials now. The first two

1562
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:47,720
Speaker 1: candidates that will likely be approved in the next two

1563
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:51,639
Speaker 1: years are psilocybin and MDMA. However, I begain as much

1564
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 1: further behind in that process, and unfortunately there's likely at

1565
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 1: least seven to ten years worth of research that needs

1566
01:25:57,320 --> 01:26:00,760
Speaker 1: to be done in legally sanctioned universe. These settings here

1567
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:03,240
Speaker 1: in the United States, before the FDA would have nearly

1568
01:26:03,320 --> 01:26:06,599
Speaker 1: enough information to make it available to the public. And meanwhile,

1569
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:09,479
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand people a year plus are dying of

1570
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:13,880
Speaker 1: are dying of opioid overdoses, while our kind of abstinence

1571
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:18,000
Speaker 1: only treatment industry utterly fails them and breaks in money

1572
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:20,479
Speaker 1: is getting rolled up by the private equity industry. Meanwhile,

1573
01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:22,519
Speaker 1: the President of the United States is okay with his

1574
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:25,080
Speaker 1: son doing it in Mexico. That seems fair, right, And

1575
01:26:25,479 --> 01:26:28,200
Speaker 1: that's overdoise is let alone. The suicide numbers, the spiking

1576
01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:33,920
Speaker 1: suit side numbers, right. Any final thoughts on this question, Well,

1577
01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:36,240
Speaker 1: that's the biggest challenge that you've just called out, which

1578
01:26:36,280 --> 01:26:38,920
Speaker 1: is that right now there are a few select privileged

1579
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:41,840
Speaker 1: individuals with the finances and the resources to be able

1580
01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:45,280
Speaker 1: to access these treatments in legal, safe contexts. But until

1581
01:26:45,320 --> 01:26:48,160
Speaker 1: we change our drug policy and our mental health treatment

1582
01:26:48,240 --> 01:26:51,480
Speaker 1: system here in the United States to one from criminalizing

1583
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:56,200
Speaker 1: drug users and criminalizing and putting people away into systems

1584
01:26:56,200 --> 01:26:58,960
Speaker 1: that don't actually treat the conditions that they're diagnosed with,

1585
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:02,639
Speaker 1: until we move from that into a public health model

1586
01:27:02,680 --> 01:27:05,680
Speaker 1: of drug policy where we actually look at any kind

1587
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:08,799
Speaker 1: of substance as something that has benefits and has risks,

1588
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:11,240
Speaker 1: and people need to understand what those benefits and risks

1589
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 1: are in order to make infirmed decisions. And once we

1590
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:16,400
Speaker 1: get to that point, like Portugal or other countries that

1591
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:18,639
Speaker 1: have moved to that model, then we can actually probably

1592
01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:21,360
Speaker 1: start really addressing the deeper issues of why people have

1593
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:24,559
Speaker 1: these addictions to begin with. A really last thing to me,

1594
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:27,519
Speaker 1: the people or the interest groups that could actually make

1595
01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:30,559
Speaker 1: a difference here are the insurance companies. It could be medicaid,

1596
01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:34,719
Speaker 1: but medicaid is completely disorganized and can't make itself anything

1597
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:37,839
Speaker 1: of a political force. But the insurance companies are getting

1598
01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:41,679
Speaker 1: absolutely taken to the cleaners by these scam artists. Treatment

1599
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:44,840
Speaker 1: industries for these like thirty thousand dollars a month, twenty

1600
01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:47,840
Speaker 1: eight day miracles that don't work, and then they bring

1601
01:27:47,880 --> 01:27:49,880
Speaker 1: them back again in charge of another thirty thousand charge.

1602
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:52,320
Speaker 1: Insurance coming out with thirty thousand dollars. Seems like the

1603
01:27:52,360 --> 01:27:58,799
Speaker 1: insurance industry actually has a real incentive to push this along.

1604
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 1: Are they at all interested in this? You know, it's

1605
01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:05,600
Speaker 1: a little bit an unknown question. There are conversations on

1606
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:08,880
Speaker 1: the way right now to determine whether insurance will be

1607
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:12,040
Speaker 1: open to psilocybin and MDMA therapy, in part because they're

1608
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:15,559
Speaker 1: the closest to FDA approval right now, and there's actually

1609
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:17,920
Speaker 1: been a federal task force that's been created to start

1610
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:23,040
Speaker 1: collaborating through conversation between DA and Samsung other agencies that

1611
01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:26,360
Speaker 1: will oversee the dissemination of psychedelic therapy in part to

1612
01:28:26,360 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 1: answer this question of whether insurance and medicaid will cover it.

1613
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:32,280
Speaker 1: I think that the writings on the wall for how

1614
01:28:32,360 --> 01:28:35,000
Speaker 1: effective it is. You know, we've had several phase two

1615
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:38,200
Speaker 1: and now phase three trials underway with psilocybin and MDMA

1616
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:42,439
Speaker 1: showing consistently favorable results and more powerful you know, treatment

1617
01:28:42,479 --> 01:28:45,960
Speaker 1: effects than the current available treatment. So hopefully insurance will

1618
01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:49,040
Speaker 1: get behind that. Hopefully, you know, we can we can

1619
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:52,240
Speaker 1: within four to five years have this treatment available to

1620
01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:54,800
Speaker 1: more people. But with related to IB again, it's going

1621
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:56,160
Speaker 1: to be a lot longer until we can get those

1622
01:28:56,160 --> 01:28:58,600
Speaker 1: studies done. It all comes down to funding though, you know,

1623
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:01,720
Speaker 1: unfortunately in the society, if the science isn't funded, then

1624
01:29:01,760 --> 01:29:04,439
Speaker 1: the science just takes forever to get done. Yeah, if

1625
01:29:04,479 --> 01:29:07,000
Speaker 1: I were United Health, I would just fund it at allent.

1626
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:10,080
Speaker 1: Professor Alan Davis, thank you so much for joining us.

1627
01:29:10,120 --> 01:29:13,240
Speaker 1: Really fascinating. Thank you, Nate. All right, that does it

1628
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:18,599
Speaker 1: for this Counterpoints Friday. I guess Happy Election Tuesday to you.

1629
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:21,000
Speaker 1: Happy we'll be here on We'll be here on Tuesday.

1630
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:23,519
Speaker 1: Tune into Breaking Points Tuesday night. That's right, we'll be

1631
01:29:23,560 --> 01:29:25,800
Speaker 1: here with the whole gang and are looking forward to

1632
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 1: breaking down those results as they come in a way

1633
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:30,880
Speaker 1: that you can expect the legacy media absolutely not to

1634
01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:34,560
Speaker 1: so very excited to do the sort of signature, be

1635
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:36,960
Speaker 1: a part of the signature. Breaking Points Election night coverage

1636
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:39,680
Speaker 1: should be a good time. Maybe I'll bring beer there

1637
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:42,800
Speaker 1: you go, No soccer can't drink it. All right, have

1638
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:43,439
Speaker 1: a great weekend.