WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Texas Killing Fields 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.040 Taking Sideways is not brought to you by Crazy Johan's 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.000 Bulletproof later he was an emporium. Instead, it's brought to 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:11.119 you by crime Con, which, as it happens, is starting 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:14.240 like right about now. It's not too late to get 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:15.680 a ticket. You can get a day pass, they have 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:17.840 them available, And if you don't feel like spending money 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:19.720 to get into crime Con, you can always come and 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.040 see us after hours. Watch our social media, the Twitter 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:26.920 where we are thinking sideways, uh and uh, maybe on 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.120 Facebook too, but we'll be sending out information about where 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:32.800 we're gonna be hanging out. We'll definitely be having meetups. 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:34.840 So if you want to come hang with us, that's great. 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:37.120 Nancy Grace is going to be a crime Con. I'm 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:38.839 sure she's gonna want to come boozing with us. So 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:41.760 if you want to see Nancy Grace drunk, then hey, 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:43.520 come and hang out with us. We'll see you there. 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:59.880 By Thinking Sideways, the ideas I don't know, stories of 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:05.480 things sympt the answer too. Well, Hey there, and welcome 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:09.000 again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve, 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:14.400 of course, joined by and again this week we come 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:19.639 to you with another mystery another Well this one's about 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.640 the Texas Killing Fields some of my best work. Did 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:25.600 I say that? Yeah, you gotta start saying these things 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.520 out loud. Damnit. Um this story before we get into anything. 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:33.240 This story is a listener suggestion was suggested by Greg 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:35.759 quite a while ago. Just a quick word of warning. 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:39.600 This story does deal with the murder of quite a 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:42.160 few young women. So if you've got little ears around, 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:44.480 or if that is something that makes you uncomfortable, I'd 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:46.640 recommend turning this one off or skipping it for a 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:49.800 later time to the little ones aren't around. So let's 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:53.240 get into things. First off, most of you are probably 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.640 wondering what are the killing fields? And it can get 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:58.800 a bit confusing. And we're not the ones in Cambodia, 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:02.560 by the way, the Texas Killing Fields, and it can 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:06.840 get a little confusing when you're on the internet. So officially, 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:11.480 the Texas Killing Fields are a twenty five acre piece 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.799 of land that is on Calder Road, or just off 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:19.359 of Calder Road, which is halfway between Houston and Galveston, Texas, 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:25.000 on the I four forty five corridor. Like people who 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:28.639 don't know as a freeway, it is the state that 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:33.000 runs north and south. Essentially between the coast where Galveston 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:36.239 is to Houston, which is about fifty sixty miles away, 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.240 But bodies are being found up and down that stretch 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.079 of road and in that area, which is why I 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:43.120 said it's a little confusing when you do the reading, 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.519 because there's an official killing fields and then there's a 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.120 larger term that's applied to this area, which is why 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.600 sometimes you'll see this called the Texas Killing Fields. Sometimes 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.400 you'll see it called the I forty five killer Um. 0:02:57.240 --> 0:02:59.800 There was one other name that I saw it under 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:03.040 the I can't suddenly think of. So there's a couple 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:06.160 of different names, and really it all depends on who's 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.840 making the list and the number of victims that they're 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:11.880 going to include, because there's a whole lot of stuff 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.640 going on in this area, and there has been since 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.600 the early seventies. Yeah, the killing fields, it's like this 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.519 that's just like this little part of an oil field 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.840 that's next to the highway and like a band in 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:26.760 oil field in marshes, whereas there's miles of highway that 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:28.560 are not part of the killing fields where people can 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.120 still toss a body out here and there. So that's 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.079 the difference. I guess Yeah, we're gonna go through quite 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:37.240 a few people's stories. So we're just gonna jump right 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.480 into this, which is with the very first one, and 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:42.880 we'll work our way forward from there. So the first 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:48.040 victim story begins in June of nine. On the seventeenth 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:51.760 of June, Collect Wilson, who was thirteen years old, was 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:55.520 dropped off after band practice by her conductor at a 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.600 bus stop your home. She didn't come home, and her 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.800 body wasn't found until five months later, at which point 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.520 they found her. She was about forty miles away and 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.800 she had been shot in the head, and I believe 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:14.280 that she was partially, if not completely, undressed. Uh, And 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:15.880 this is gonna be something that we're gonna see in 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:20.200 a lot of a lot of these cases. Decomposition pretty 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:22.960 extensive because it had been five months actually dumped five 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:25.000 months ago. Now, yeah, she had been out in the open. 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:26.760 So let's you know what. I was gonna talk about 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:28.840 this later on, but let's do this now. All of 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.520 these cases that we're gonna cover, there's a huge problem 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:36.280 with the recovery of any kind of usable information. In 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.799 other words, the bodies are so decomposed. Because we're talking 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:44.839 about South Texas. We're talking about humid, hot, it's marsh land. 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:49.440 The conditions are not conducive to a body being preserved 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:53.400 for any length of time. Nature begins to work right away. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:55.640 So like things like DNA, we all just take this 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:58.320 for granted that should be just all kinds of stuff, 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.560 but that's not going to be the case. So knowing 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:05.000 that as we go in here, and that's also helpful 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:07.560 to know. You know, when we talk about sometimes we 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.520 talk about stories where bodies were stored for five months 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:12.760 and then dumped after the fact, and they you know, 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:18.479 we're just but these these bodies were all dumped pretty after. Yeah, 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:19.800 this this is not one of the guys that kept 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.560 him around for an extended period. That's worth mentioning. No, 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:24.880 these these were not that kind of trophy situation, I 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:26.840 believe is what your is what you're referring to a 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:29.560 lot of times when they're stored like that. But but yeah, 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.320 so that's that's kind of scenario here, right. So first 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:38.080 victim is is Collette years old. So moving forward in 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:42.040 time two weeks later, and that's from the time that 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.120 Collette disappeared, Okay, not heard, not the discovery of her 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:48.360 correct Brenda Jones left her house. She was going to 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:50.960 go visit a family member who was in the hospital. 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.160 Her plan was to walk up I forty five. This 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.800 was the first of July, and she didn't come home, 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:02.120 and her body was found the very next day. It 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.839 was in Galveston Bay and she had been shot once 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:09.720 in the head and her a slip. It's always described 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:11.560 as a slip. I don't know if it's hers or 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:15.880 just a random slip had been stuffed in her mouth. 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.360 We go forward in time another two weeks, so now 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:21.760 we're in the middle of July and the killer. I'm sorry, 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.640 at the beginning of August. These guys not wasting any time, 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:29.680 not at all. We go to August four and fifteen 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:34.159 year old round Rhonda Johnson and thirteen year old Sharon 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.839 Shaw disappeared at the same time. So these two girls, 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:42.240 they had gone to the beach in Galveston to celebrate. 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:44.760 I believe Rhonda's birthday was like the next week, She's 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:49.480 gonna turn fourteen, and they were celebrating the big one. Um. 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.040 But witnessssary that they saw them at the beach, and 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:55.440 they saw them leaving the beach, but they never made 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:59.520 it home. Part of Sharon's body was found in jail 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.920 on j Anywary, third seventy one by two boys who 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:08.760 were fishing in Clear Lake, where it's about twenty or 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:11.800 thirty miles away at the most. It's hard for me 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:16.520 to answer this because there's so many different victims away 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:20.680 from the Galvison Beach, correct, correct, Yeah, so, so it's 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.960 not right next door to where they disappeared from. And 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.640 what part of her body, her head, her decomposed skull, 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:30.400 it was floating in the water when they found it, 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:32.800 or just under the surface, just the kind of thing 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:34.360 you want to really and when you're after a day 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:39.080 of fishing exactly. Um. The boys reported that, and then 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:41.760 through searches, it took about it took several weeks. The 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:46.640 rest of both Sharon and Rhonda's bodies were recovered in 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.560 the marsh next to the lake, and it was several 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:53.280 weeks or excuse me, it was several months after the 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.480 recovery of the bodies that the police got a tip 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.080 to look into a sexy fender who was in the 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:03.240 area by the name of Michael Lloyd's self. And we're 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:05.880 just gonna talk about self briefly because he's one of 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:09.200 the few times that somebody gets charged with a case 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.320 and there's some serious issues in it. I'm gonna ask 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.200 kind of a question. I'm sorry I from jumping ahead here. 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:21.640 Was Sharon decapitated or was it decomposition and then like 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.320 an animal carried her? She was in a marsh, you know, 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:28.600 I mean there's stuff, there's critters, and decomposition happens, as 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:30.520 far as I am aware, Yes, I mean, if you 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.280 think about it, the vertebrae, they're not exactly locked together 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.680 very well, especially when the flesh and tendons are gone. True, 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:40.240 So that's why it would have gone away. So self, 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.920 Michael's Lloyd's self was picked up and eventually he would 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:47.240 be charged with the murders of these girls. Uh. There's 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.719 a lot of questions about that particular conviction because he 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.200 said he was held and beaten by the local police 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.640 and then he was threatened at gunpoint by the chief 0:08:56.240 --> 0:09:00.439 to confess to it, and he eventually gave in and 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.960 he confessed. But then he continued to tell his story, 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:07.640 but the details morphed and they didn't line up right 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.160 with the crime all the way. The description I heard 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.160 of the interrogation was and they made him. They gave 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:14.920 him some paper and pen and they told him, okay, 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.120 you know, he confessed, and he writes it out and 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:19.439 then and then the police said no, no, no, you 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.840 got that detail wrong. Changed that, and they kept making 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:26.480 him modify his confession. So it's not surprising his details 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:29.439 kept changing. Yeah, I don't think he ever did it. No, no, 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:31.199 And that's the thing is he he said that he 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:35.360 was innocent his entire time in jail. This was one 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:40.000 He died in two thousand in jail, having fought this 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.360 conviction the entire time. He died of cancer. There was 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.240 a forensic files on this, well, not this specific, but 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:49.760 it was a very similar case where this guy got 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:53.520 convicted because he had quote unquote confessed and basically what 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:55.959 they had found as the police had been sitting in 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.559 the interrogation room and they'd said, you hit over you 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:00.400 hit her over the head. Didn't you hit her over 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:02.280 the head? And he'd say yeah, you know, after like 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.120 fifteen hours of interrogation he said yeah, and they say 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:07.160 what what'd you hit her with? And he said, I'm 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:11.160 a fist and they said nope. He said a brick 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.000 and they said nope. It hadn't been something like a 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.120 bat or something. He goes, oh, a bat, and they 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:22.440 go that work, and I was just like, oh my god. 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.959 And unfortunately, and this is this is not to say 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.520 that law enforcement intentionally does that today, but back in 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:32.880 the day there there was a different rule book. And 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.680 what really makes me question the conviction against Michael Lloyd's 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:40.880 self is that two of the cops who pushed him 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:45.400 into his confession were arrested three years later for bank 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.280 robberies that they had been committing over the years. So like, 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.319 these guys were crooked and dirty the whole way. So 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:56.079 I really feel like self was probably never guilty of 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.840 the crime. Yeah, it's a yeah, that's a great little 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.480 i'd line. If you're a cop robbing banks, Yeah, I 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:04.360 mean what you do is, you know, you run around 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:06.199 the corner and you rip off your your mask and 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.079 your your coat, and you're coming back back around the 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.360 corner wearing your uniform to make sure not to be 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:14.199 carrying the bag with which why did they go? Which? 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:16.880 Why did they go? Yeah? Yeah, that that would be Yeah, 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:18.920 that is perfect cover. It is, but but we should 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.160 probably get back to the girl. I kind of like 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:23.760 the robbery better. It's not questions. I know, I know, 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.480 we've got we're gonna there's four more girls that would 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:32.200 disappear that year. So they disappeared, and it was nineteen 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.120 year old Gloria Gonzalez. She disappeared on the twenty eighth 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:39.080 of October. She ended up being found thirty five yards 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:42.720 from where Collette Wilson's body was found. The very first girl, 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:47.160 twelve year old Alison Craven, disappeared on the ninth of November. 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.080 She was found four months later. Fifteen year old Debbie 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:55.079 Ackerman and fifteen year old Maria Johnson went to the 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.640 mall on the eleventh of November, and then they disappeared, 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.959 and their bodies were found in a body of water 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:04.920 with their hands and their feet bound. And they had 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.640 also both been shot in the head. I think what 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:11.240 had been shot in the front, and one had been 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:13.400 shot in the back of the head twice and then 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:15.959 shot in the thigh. I can't remember which of the 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.679 two girls. Um, So it's it's really strange that, you know, 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.160 there's some of these bodies are shots, some are not. 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:26.280 So it's it's a weird shifting pattern. Right at the 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.520 very beginning, I was just gonna ask if Gloria Gonzalez 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:34.040 looked younger. I believe she did, so that's that's okay. 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.040 So that's that's a good question. And again I'm gonna 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:39.079 say this later, but let's do it now. No, No, 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.520 there's absolutely no reason that things that this bit of 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:45.079 information needed to come up anywhere. In particular, we're talking 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.680 so far about girls. Ignoring Gloria for the moment, we've 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.640 talked about girls who were twelve fifteen years of age, 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:57.439 and most girls at that age are very shortened stature, 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.359 and they tend to be because they're a little girls. 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:05.000 They're rather petite. They're just just hitting pubert, they're just 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:09.240 hitting puberty. So those gross spers haven't happened. I believe 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:14.439 if I remember correct, that Gloria was a smaller girl. 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.920 There are several others as we come to them later 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:20.079 on that I will point out who are older in 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:22.680 terms of like Gloria, you know this nineteen twenty whatever 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:26.960 it is, and they were rather small. So there does 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:30.400 seem to maybe be a pattern in that. But you know, again, 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.199 if there's so many random things as far as like 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:37.000 mode of death, it's not necessarily and also they he 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.520 probably couldn't afford to be ultra ultra picky, because when 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:42.400 you think about it, he's got to find himself at 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.680 least one or two girls and no witnesses or police 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:47.880 anywhere around. Which what do you think about it? You know, 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:52.079 finding that your ideal target plus nobody else around, to 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.959 witnesses once or twice a month, Yeah that often. I 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:56.800 mean he must have been like full time out there 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.280 looking for victims, because yeah, yeah it is. It is 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:06.320 amazing how rapid this is happening between girls. Um. And again, 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:07.960 this is another thing that I was gonna talk about later, 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:10.079 but let's do it now. You would think in this 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.959 day and age today, this would be all over the 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:14.880 news and this would be all over the internet, and 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:21.520 we all know, but this is one the police departments 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.560 don't talk to each other because it's all little towns 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:28.440 with their own police departments. They don't talk to one another. Yeah, 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.680 but there was just this weird, complete and utter lack 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:37.760 of communication between news and media outlets and people from 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:41.480 community community and the cops themselves. So I mean, they're 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.920 they're disappearing from rather close but not towns, but they're 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.320 not the same towns, but they're getting dumped kind of 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.880 in the same area. Some of them they're getting dumped 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.480 in that same corridor. Yes, so you would think people 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:57.080 would notice, but people didn't notice this. For sadly, many 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.440 many years, the links were not made between a lot 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:04.119 of these cases. That's intriguing that it could be an 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.120 entirely random thing or somebody who's clever enough to know that, 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:10.040 you know, I'll just hit a different municipality and let 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.120 you know, bureaucratic and I fall through the cracks and 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:15.560 all that stuff. Nail on the head, my friend, Yeah, somebody. 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.200 I wonder if it was somebody like a policeman or something. Well, 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.520 let's let's keep going. We'll get into that bit later, Okay. 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.120 So we're gonna we're gonna keep moving on. So the 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.960 last victims that we talked about were Debbie Ackerman and 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.680 Maria Johnson. They went to the mall, didn't come home. 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:35.680 Just over a year after that, sixteen year old Kimberly 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:41.560 Pitchford left school on January three, three and she was 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:45.000 never seen again. Her body was found two days later 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:48.000 in a ditch and her cause of death was strangulation. 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.560 So there was no gunshot in this particular one. And then, 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:56.360 thankfully After that, things cooled off for a couple of years, 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.920 at least according to what we know, we're or believe, 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.280 because like I talked about, there's this lack of communication. 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:07.960 And the other thing that was common practice at the 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:13.359 time with the police department is if a young girl disappeared, 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:18.160 the automatic conclusion by the police was that she ran away. 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.400 She did a runaway. Sorry, mom and dad, your daughter 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:25.040 ran away, so no investigation would take place. So there's 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.400 there's possibly more. Actually, I know there's lots more than 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.480 just a particular list that I'm using. I know, Joe 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:34.440 you had printed out. When the list it's like seventy 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:38.480 people long. There's a lot of people disappeared, and some 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:40.560 of them turned up, but of course not necessarily the 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:43.160 same killer, right, and and some of them are on 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:45.680 these lists, some of their aren't. So it's it's hard 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:47.880 to say that, oh yeah, a cool law for three 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.880 years with any certainty, it could have continued and the 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.520 links just weren't made. They may have been taken farther 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:58.720 than the four corridor, or they could just their bodies 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:05.440 could have just never been exactly I decomposed, not equal positioned, 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:10.720 the accomposted. Yeah, decomposted, uh in you know, a bogger, 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.200 an oil field or whatever. Yeah, it wasn't necessarily tossing 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:18.720 everybody in the oil fields. No, no, there, Okay, So 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:21.840 here's folks who have heard these kind of stories when 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.320 I'm I'm running the mic and probably used to the 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.920 fact that I will say, and there's X number more 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:28.800 and then I would just leave it at that with 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.160 maybe a couple of highlights, but to kind of drive 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:34.840 home the enormity of this whole thing, I have a 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.520 list and I had to resort to a spreadsheet. Yeah, 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.000 I did, And I'm going to grab the spreadsheet and 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.199 we're going to go through because we have just talked 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:49.000 about eleven girls that have disappeared. I think eleven is 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:51.480 what it is. The list that I have here has 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:55.280 another eighteen on it. So my list is almost thirty 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:57.440 girls long. And like I said, there's other lists that 0:17:57.480 --> 0:17:59.840 are bigger than that. But we're gonna go through this 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.880 redsheet and I will keep this as brief as I can, 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:06.040 with just what are kind of the big highlights where 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:11.040 and when we need them. Suzanne Bowers disappeared on May one, 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:15.000 nineteen seventy seven. Uh and her body would be discovered 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.200 in March of nineteen seventy nine in Alta Loma, Texas. 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:24.120 Brooke brace Well, I don't know exactly when she disappeared, 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:28.840 but her body would be found in April of nine one. 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:33.119 She had been out with a friend that day, the 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:38.840 day that she disappeared. Georgia Greer year. Yes, so Brooke 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:43.000 was twelve, Georgia was fourteen. Both these girls bodies would 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.400 be found in Alvin Swamp and then they had been 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:50.760 beaten to death. Heidi Faye, she was twenty three years old. 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:55.560 She disappeared on the tenth of October three. Her body 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:59.919 would be found on the Calder Road property in April 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.359 of nineteen eighty four, and called. When I say they 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:05.800 called the road property, that's the quote unquote official twenty 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:09.640 five acre Texas killing field. So that's the the official 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.399 sanctioned area. Sanctions the wrong word, but you know what 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.880 I mean. Yeah, if you actually easily find it, it's 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:17.760 right behind that church. I can't remember the name of 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.320 the church now, but it's on the highway there. Yeah, 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:22.440 I mean if you type in called the road and 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:27.359 Interstate forty five, you'll find it pretty quickly. Uh. Moving forward, 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:32.000 there's Santa Ramber, she was fourteen, disappeared on October twenty 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:36.320 six three and it's still missing to this day. There's 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:40.200 a Jane Doe that was found in this time in February. 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:45.720 It's Sandra. They are pretty sure it's not Sandra. We 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:48.320 don't know who she is or where she came from. Uh, 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:50.760 she's what we've The term we used before was the 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:55.320 missing missing. We don't nobody appears even though she's missing. Uh. 0:19:55.560 --> 0:20:00.199 Laura Miller, she was sixteen, disappeared on September tenth, nine 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.480 four and was found on the same day as on 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:06.399 the same Yeah. I was just suddenly that caught me 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:09.879 off guard. It's on the same day. Um. So Laura 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.840 Miller will talk about her briefly because she was last 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:18.639 seen at a convenience store. There's two or three that 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:21.760 we're seen at a convenience store. But what I want 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:25.119 to talk about is Laura Miller is so, she disappeared 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:28.800 and her body was eventually found and it was found 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:33.600 on the calder on the actual killing field. But her dad, 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:39.760 Tim is an interesting figure in this entire case. Yeah, 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.639 because Tim Miller, the man lost his daughter, and I 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:48.280 get that, but he it's almost like he went on 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.560 a crusade. He found a calling, he had to find 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.600 the man who was responsible. And I'm not going to 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:56.680 say anything against him having done that. He's done some 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:00.720 great things. He started a company called Equisearch. They've gone 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:02.760 all over the country, actually all of the world, using 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:06.479 horses and boats to look for lost girls. Like they 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:11.240 do good work. But Tim has also done some very 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:14.800 not good things in the search for his daughter's killer. 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:18.159 And he has pointed the finger at some people and 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:22.399 made some very i would say, some very bad moves. 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:24.480 And we're gonna talk about those our theories when we 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:28.359 talked about ourselves that he has. It's not like the 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:30.639 man just believes he's never done anything wrong. He's a 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:34.400 human being and he gets it. But it's it's concerning 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:38.080 to me some of his level involvement at times. Back 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:41.720 to the list, we have Shelley Sikes. She was nineteen. 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:47.720 She disappeared on May six, and she's still missing. Her 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:52.080 car was found abandon on I forty five, and she's 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:54.639 one of the ones I'll point out because she was 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:58.040 four ft eleven and ninety pounds, so it would kind 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:01.360 of look like the profile of a eighteen early teenager 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:09.159 Suzanne renee Richardson disappeared on October seven, and she was 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:12.440 twenty two years old. She's also still missing. She was 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:16.680 five ft eight pounds. She's kind of an outlier here 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:21.000 because I mean, yeah, I can't think of any like 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:23.280 twelve year old girl that I've ever met that's also 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:27.360 five eight. You know, I have a family member who 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:33.440 at fifteen was about five eight or fight. I mean, yeah, 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:35.359 so it just depends on the person, but yeah, she 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:37.880 has a bit of an outlier in our general profile 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:41.960 we're building here. We go to Lynnette Bibbs. She was fourteen, 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:46.800 disappeared on February one of nineteen. She was found two 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:51.760 days later. She was out with her friend tomaraw Fisher 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:55.560 and Tomorrow. Both of the girls disappeared at the same time, 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:58.760 and both of their bodies were found on the same day, 0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:01.359 which is two days later. They were found on the 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:04.439