1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Taking Sideways is not brought to you by Crazy Johan's 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Bulletproof later he was an emporium. Instead, it's brought to 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: you by crime Con, which, as it happens, is starting 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: like right about now. It's not too late to get 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: a ticket. You can get a day pass, they have 6 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: them available, And if you don't feel like spending money 7 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: to get into crime Con, you can always come and 8 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: see us after hours. Watch our social media, the Twitter 9 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: where we are thinking sideways, uh and uh, maybe on 10 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: Facebook too, but we'll be sending out information about where 11 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: we're gonna be hanging out. We'll definitely be having meetups. 12 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: So if you want to come hang with us, that's great. 13 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is going to be a crime Con. I'm 14 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: sure she's gonna want to come boozing with us. So 15 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: if you want to see Nancy Grace drunk, then hey, 16 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: come and hang out with us. We'll see you there. 17 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: By Thinking Sideways, the ideas I don't know, stories of 18 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: things sympt the answer too. Well, Hey there, and welcome 19 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve, 20 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: of course, joined by and again this week we come 21 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:19,639 Speaker 1: to you with another mystery another Well this one's about 22 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: the Texas Killing Fields some of my best work. Did 23 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: I say that? Yeah, you gotta start saying these things 24 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: out loud. Damnit. Um this story before we get into anything. 25 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: This story is a listener suggestion was suggested by Greg 26 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 1: quite a while ago. Just a quick word of warning. 27 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: This story does deal with the murder of quite a 28 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: few young women. So if you've got little ears around, 29 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: or if that is something that makes you uncomfortable, I'd 30 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: recommend turning this one off or skipping it for a 31 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: later time to the little ones aren't around. So let's 32 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: get into things. First off, most of you are probably 33 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: wondering what are the killing fields? And it can get 34 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: a bit confusing. And we're not the ones in Cambodia, 35 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: by the way, the Texas Killing Fields, and it can 36 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: get a little confusing when you're on the internet. So officially, 37 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: the Texas Killing Fields are a twenty five acre piece 38 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 1: of land that is on Calder Road, or just off 39 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: of Calder Road, which is halfway between Houston and Galveston, Texas, 40 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: on the I four forty five corridor. Like people who 41 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: don't know as a freeway, it is the state that 42 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: runs north and south. Essentially between the coast where Galveston 43 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,239 Speaker 1: is to Houston, which is about fifty sixty miles away, 44 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: But bodies are being found up and down that stretch 45 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: of road and in that area, which is why I 46 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: said it's a little confusing when you do the reading, 47 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 1: because there's an official killing fields and then there's a 48 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: larger term that's applied to this area, which is why 49 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: sometimes you'll see this called the Texas Killing Fields. Sometimes 50 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: you'll see it called the I forty five killer Um. 51 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: There was one other name that I saw it under 52 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: the I can't suddenly think of. So there's a couple 53 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: of different names, and really it all depends on who's 54 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: making the list and the number of victims that they're 55 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: going to include, because there's a whole lot of stuff 56 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: going on in this area, and there has been since 57 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: the early seventies. Yeah, the killing fields, it's like this 58 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 1: that's just like this little part of an oil field 59 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: that's next to the highway and like a band in 60 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: oil field in marshes, whereas there's miles of highway that 61 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: are not part of the killing fields where people can 62 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: still toss a body out here and there. So that's 63 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: the difference. I guess Yeah, we're gonna go through quite 64 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: a few people's stories. So we're just gonna jump right 65 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: into this, which is with the very first one, and 66 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: we'll work our way forward from there. So the first 67 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: victim story begins in June of nine. On the seventeenth 68 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: of June, Collect Wilson, who was thirteen years old, was 69 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: dropped off after band practice by her conductor at a 70 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: bus stop your home. She didn't come home, and her 71 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: body wasn't found until five months later, at which point 72 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: they found her. She was about forty miles away and 73 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: she had been shot in the head, and I believe 74 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: that she was partially, if not completely, undressed. Uh, And 75 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: this is gonna be something that we're gonna see in 76 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of these cases. Decomposition pretty 77 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: extensive because it had been five months actually dumped five 78 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: months ago. Now, yeah, she had been out in the open. 79 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: So let's you know what. I was gonna talk about 80 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: this later on, but let's do this now. All of 81 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: these cases that we're gonna cover, there's a huge problem 82 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: with the recovery of any kind of usable information. In 83 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,799 Speaker 1: other words, the bodies are so decomposed. Because we're talking 84 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: about South Texas. We're talking about humid, hot, it's marsh land. 85 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: The conditions are not conducive to a body being preserved 86 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: for any length of time. Nature begins to work right away. 87 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: So like things like DNA, we all just take this 88 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: for granted that should be just all kinds of stuff, 89 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: but that's not going to be the case. So knowing 90 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: that as we go in here, and that's also helpful 91 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: to know. You know, when we talk about sometimes we 92 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: talk about stories where bodies were stored for five months 93 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: and then dumped after the fact, and they you know, 94 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: we're just but these these bodies were all dumped pretty after. Yeah, 95 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: this this is not one of the guys that kept 96 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: him around for an extended period. That's worth mentioning. No, 97 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: these these were not that kind of trophy situation, I 98 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: believe is what your is what you're referring to a 99 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: lot of times when they're stored like that. But but yeah, 100 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: so that's that's kind of scenario here, right. So first 101 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: victim is is Collette years old. So moving forward in 102 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: time two weeks later, and that's from the time that 103 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: Collette disappeared, Okay, not heard, not the discovery of her 104 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: correct Brenda Jones left her house. She was going to 105 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: go visit a family member who was in the hospital. 106 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: Her plan was to walk up I forty five. This 107 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: was the first of July, and she didn't come home, 108 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: and her body was found the very next day. It 109 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: was in Galveston Bay and she had been shot once 110 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: in the head and her a slip. It's always described 111 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: as a slip. I don't know if it's hers or 112 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: just a random slip had been stuffed in her mouth. 113 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: We go forward in time another two weeks, so now 114 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: we're in the middle of July and the killer. I'm sorry, 115 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: at the beginning of August. These guys not wasting any time, 116 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: not at all. We go to August four and fifteen 117 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: year old round Rhonda Johnson and thirteen year old Sharon 118 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: Shaw disappeared at the same time. So these two girls, 119 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: they had gone to the beach in Galveston to celebrate. 120 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: I believe Rhonda's birthday was like the next week, She's 121 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: gonna turn fourteen, and they were celebrating the big one. Um. 122 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: But witnessssary that they saw them at the beach, and 123 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: they saw them leaving the beach, but they never made 124 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: it home. Part of Sharon's body was found in jail 125 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: on j Anywary, third seventy one by two boys who 126 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: were fishing in Clear Lake, where it's about twenty or 127 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: thirty miles away at the most. It's hard for me 128 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: to answer this because there's so many different victims away 129 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: from the Galvison Beach, correct, correct, Yeah, so, so it's 130 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: not right next door to where they disappeared from. And 131 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: what part of her body, her head, her decomposed skull, 132 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: it was floating in the water when they found it, 133 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: or just under the surface, just the kind of thing 134 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: you want to really and when you're after a day 135 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: of fishing exactly. Um. The boys reported that, and then 136 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: through searches, it took about it took several weeks. The 137 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: rest of both Sharon and Rhonda's bodies were recovered in 138 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: the marsh next to the lake, and it was several 139 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: weeks or excuse me, it was several months after the 140 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: recovery of the bodies that the police got a tip 141 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: to look into a sexy fender who was in the 142 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: area by the name of Michael Lloyd's self. And we're 143 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: just gonna talk about self briefly because he's one of 144 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: the few times that somebody gets charged with a case 145 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: and there's some serious issues in it. I'm gonna ask 146 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: kind of a question. I'm sorry I from jumping ahead here. 147 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: Was Sharon decapitated or was it decomposition and then like 148 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: an animal carried her? She was in a marsh, you know, 149 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: I mean there's stuff, there's critters, and decomposition happens, as 150 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: far as I am aware, Yes, I mean, if you 151 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: think about it, the vertebrae, they're not exactly locked together 152 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: very well, especially when the flesh and tendons are gone. True, 153 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: So that's why it would have gone away. So self, 154 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: Michael's Lloyd's self was picked up and eventually he would 155 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: be charged with the murders of these girls. Uh. There's 156 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,719 Speaker 1: a lot of questions about that particular conviction because he 157 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: said he was held and beaten by the local police 158 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: and then he was threatened at gunpoint by the chief 159 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 1: to confess to it, and he eventually gave in and 160 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: he confessed. But then he continued to tell his story, 161 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: but the details morphed and they didn't line up right 162 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: with the crime all the way. The description I heard 163 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: of the interrogation was and they made him. They gave 164 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: him some paper and pen and they told him, okay, 165 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, he confessed, and he writes it out and 166 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: then and then the police said no, no, no, you 167 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: got that detail wrong. Changed that, and they kept making 168 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: him modify his confession. So it's not surprising his details 169 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 1: kept changing. Yeah, I don't think he ever did it. No, no, 170 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 1: And that's the thing is he he said that he 171 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: was innocent his entire time in jail. This was one 172 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: He died in two thousand in jail, having fought this 173 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: conviction the entire time. He died of cancer. There was 174 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: a forensic files on this, well, not this specific, but 175 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: it was a very similar case where this guy got 176 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: convicted because he had quote unquote confessed and basically what 177 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,959 Speaker 1: they had found as the police had been sitting in 178 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: the interrogation room and they'd said, you hit over you 179 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: hit her over the head. Didn't you hit her over 180 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: the head? And he'd say yeah, you know, after like 181 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: fifteen hours of interrogation he said yeah, and they say 182 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: what what'd you hit her with? And he said, I'm 183 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: a fist and they said nope. He said a brick 184 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: and they said nope. It hadn't been something like a 185 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: bat or something. He goes, oh, a bat, and they 186 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: go that work, and I was just like, oh my god. 187 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, and this is this is not to say 188 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: that law enforcement intentionally does that today, but back in 189 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: the day there there was a different rule book. And 190 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: what really makes me question the conviction against Michael Lloyd's 191 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: self is that two of the cops who pushed him 192 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: into his confession were arrested three years later for bank 193 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: robberies that they had been committing over the years. So like, 194 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 1: these guys were crooked and dirty the whole way. So 195 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 1: I really feel like self was probably never guilty of 196 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: the crime. Yeah, it's a yeah, that's a great little 197 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: i'd line. If you're a cop robbing banks, Yeah, I 198 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: mean what you do is, you know, you run around 199 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 1: the corner and you rip off your your mask and 200 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 1: your your coat, and you're coming back back around the 201 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: corner wearing your uniform to make sure not to be 202 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: carrying the bag with which why did they go? Which? 203 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: Why did they go? Yeah? Yeah, that that would be Yeah, 204 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: that is perfect cover. It is, but but we should 205 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: probably get back to the girl. I kind of like 206 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: the robbery better. It's not questions. I know, I know, 207 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: we've got we're gonna there's four more girls that would 208 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: disappear that year. So they disappeared, and it was nineteen 209 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: year old Gloria Gonzalez. She disappeared on the twenty eighth 210 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: of October. She ended up being found thirty five yards 211 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: from where Collette Wilson's body was found. The very first girl, 212 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: twelve year old Alison Craven, disappeared on the ninth of November. 213 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: She was found four months later. Fifteen year old Debbie 214 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 1: Ackerman and fifteen year old Maria Johnson went to the 215 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: mall on the eleventh of November, and then they disappeared, 216 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 1: and their bodies were found in a body of water 217 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: with their hands and their feet bound. And they had 218 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: also both been shot in the head. I think what 219 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: had been shot in the front, and one had been 220 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: shot in the back of the head twice and then 221 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 1: shot in the thigh. I can't remember which of the 222 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: two girls. Um, So it's it's really strange that, you know, 223 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: there's some of these bodies are shots, some are not. 224 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: So it's it's a weird shifting pattern. Right at the 225 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: very beginning, I was just gonna ask if Gloria Gonzalez 226 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: looked younger. I believe she did, so that's that's okay. 227 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: So that's that's a good question. And again I'm gonna 228 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: say this later, but let's do it now. No, No, 229 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: there's absolutely no reason that things that this bit of 230 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 1: information needed to come up anywhere. In particular, we're talking 231 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: so far about girls. Ignoring Gloria for the moment, we've 232 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: talked about girls who were twelve fifteen years of age, 233 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: and most girls at that age are very shortened stature, 234 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,359 Speaker 1: and they tend to be because they're a little girls. 235 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: They're rather petite. They're just just hitting pubert, they're just 236 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: hitting puberty. So those gross spers haven't happened. I believe 237 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: if I remember correct, that Gloria was a smaller girl. 238 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: There are several others as we come to them later 239 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 1: on that I will point out who are older in 240 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: terms of like Gloria, you know this nineteen twenty whatever 241 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: it is, and they were rather small. So there does 242 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: seem to maybe be a pattern in that. But you know, again, 243 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 1: if there's so many random things as far as like 244 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: mode of death, it's not necessarily and also they he 245 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: probably couldn't afford to be ultra ultra picky, because when 246 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: you think about it, he's got to find himself at 247 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: least one or two girls and no witnesses or police 248 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: anywhere around. Which what do you think about it? You know, 249 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 1: finding that your ideal target plus nobody else around, to 250 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 1: witnesses once or twice a month, Yeah that often. I 251 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: mean he must have been like full time out there 252 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: looking for victims, because yeah, yeah it is. It is 253 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: amazing how rapid this is happening between girls. Um. And again, 254 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: this is another thing that I was gonna talk about later, 255 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 1: but let's do it now. You would think in this 256 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: day and age today, this would be all over the 257 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: news and this would be all over the internet, and 258 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: we all know, but this is one the police departments 259 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: don't talk to each other because it's all little towns 260 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: with their own police departments. They don't talk to one another. Yeah, 261 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: but there was just this weird, complete and utter lack 262 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: of communication between news and media outlets and people from 263 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: community community and the cops themselves. So I mean, they're 264 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: they're disappearing from rather close but not towns, but they're 265 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: not the same towns, but they're getting dumped kind of 266 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: in the same area. Some of them they're getting dumped 267 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: in that same corridor. Yes, so you would think people 268 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: would notice, but people didn't notice this. For sadly, many 269 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: many years, the links were not made between a lot 270 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,119 Speaker 1: of these cases. That's intriguing that it could be an 271 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: entirely random thing or somebody who's clever enough to know that, 272 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: you know, I'll just hit a different municipality and let 273 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: you know, bureaucratic and I fall through the cracks and 274 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: all that stuff. Nail on the head, my friend, Yeah, somebody. 275 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: I wonder if it was somebody like a policeman or something. Well, 276 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: let's let's keep going. We'll get into that bit later, Okay. 277 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: So we're gonna we're gonna keep moving on. So the 278 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: last victims that we talked about were Debbie Ackerman and 279 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: Maria Johnson. They went to the mall, didn't come home. 280 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: Just over a year after that, sixteen year old Kimberly 281 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: Pitchford left school on January three, three and she was 282 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: never seen again. Her body was found two days later 283 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: in a ditch and her cause of death was strangulation. 284 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: So there was no gunshot in this particular one. And then, 285 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: thankfully After that, things cooled off for a couple of years, 286 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: at least according to what we know, we're or believe, 287 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: because like I talked about, there's this lack of communication. 288 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: And the other thing that was common practice at the 289 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:13,359 Speaker 1: time with the police department is if a young girl disappeared, 290 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: the automatic conclusion by the police was that she ran away. 291 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: She did a runaway. Sorry, mom and dad, your daughter 292 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: ran away, so no investigation would take place. So there's 293 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: there's possibly more. Actually, I know there's lots more than 294 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: just a particular list that I'm using. I know, Joe 295 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: you had printed out. When the list it's like seventy 296 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: people long. There's a lot of people disappeared, and some 297 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: of them turned up, but of course not necessarily the 298 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: same killer, right, and and some of them are on 299 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: these lists, some of their aren't. So it's it's hard 300 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: to say that, oh yeah, a cool law for three 301 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: years with any certainty, it could have continued and the 302 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: links just weren't made. They may have been taken farther 303 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: than the four corridor, or they could just their bodies 304 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: could have just never been exactly I decomposed, not equal positioned, 305 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: the accomposted. Yeah, decomposted, uh in you know, a bogger, 306 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: an oil field or whatever. Yeah, it wasn't necessarily tossing 307 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: everybody in the oil fields. No, no, there, Okay, So 308 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: here's folks who have heard these kind of stories when 309 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: I'm I'm running the mic and probably used to the 310 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: fact that I will say, and there's X number more 311 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: and then I would just leave it at that with 312 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: maybe a couple of highlights, but to kind of drive 313 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: home the enormity of this whole thing, I have a 314 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: list and I had to resort to a spreadsheet. Yeah, 315 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: I did, And I'm going to grab the spreadsheet and 316 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 1: we're going to go through because we have just talked 317 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: about eleven girls that have disappeared. I think eleven is 318 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: what it is. The list that I have here has 319 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: another eighteen on it. So my list is almost thirty 320 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: girls long. And like I said, there's other lists that 321 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: are bigger than that. But we're gonna go through this 322 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 1: redsheet and I will keep this as brief as I can, 323 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: with just what are kind of the big highlights where 324 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: and when we need them. Suzanne Bowers disappeared on May one, 325 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven. Uh and her body would be discovered 326 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: in March of nineteen seventy nine in Alta Loma, Texas. 327 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 1: Brooke brace Well, I don't know exactly when she disappeared, 328 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: but her body would be found in April of nine one. 329 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: She had been out with a friend that day, the 330 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: day that she disappeared. Georgia Greer year. Yes, so Brooke 331 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: was twelve, Georgia was fourteen. Both these girls bodies would 332 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: be found in Alvin Swamp and then they had been 333 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: beaten to death. Heidi Faye, she was twenty three years old. 334 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: She disappeared on the tenth of October three. Her body 335 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: would be found on the Calder Road property in April 336 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty four, and called. When I say they 337 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: called the road property, that's the quote unquote official twenty 338 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: five acre Texas killing field. So that's the the official 339 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: sanctioned area. Sanctions the wrong word, but you know what 340 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 1: I mean. Yeah, if you actually easily find it, it's 341 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: right behind that church. I can't remember the name of 342 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: the church now, but it's on the highway there. Yeah, 343 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: I mean if you type in called the road and 344 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: Interstate forty five, you'll find it pretty quickly. Uh. Moving forward, 345 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: there's Santa Ramber, she was fourteen, disappeared on October twenty 346 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: six three and it's still missing to this day. There's 347 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: a Jane Doe that was found in this time in February. 348 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: It's Sandra. They are pretty sure it's not Sandra. We 349 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: don't know who she is or where she came from. Uh, 350 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: she's what we've The term we used before was the 351 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: missing missing. We don't nobody appears even though she's missing. Uh. 352 00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 1: Laura Miller, she was sixteen, disappeared on September tenth, nine 353 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: four and was found on the same day as on 354 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: the same Yeah. I was just suddenly that caught me 355 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: off guard. It's on the same day. Um. So Laura 356 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: Miller will talk about her briefly because she was last 357 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: seen at a convenience store. There's two or three that 358 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: we're seen at a convenience store. But what I want 359 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: to talk about is Laura Miller is so, she disappeared 360 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: and her body was eventually found and it was found 361 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: on the calder on the actual killing field. But her dad, 362 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: Tim is an interesting figure in this entire case. Yeah, 363 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: because Tim Miller, the man lost his daughter, and I 364 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: get that, but he it's almost like he went on 365 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: a crusade. He found a calling, he had to find 366 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: the man who was responsible. And I'm not going to 367 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 1: say anything against him having done that. He's done some 368 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: great things. He started a company called Equisearch. They've gone 369 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: all over the country, actually all of the world, using 370 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,479 Speaker 1: horses and boats to look for lost girls. Like they 371 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: do good work. But Tim has also done some very 372 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: not good things in the search for his daughter's killer. 373 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: And he has pointed the finger at some people and 374 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: made some very i would say, some very bad moves. 375 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: And we're gonna talk about those our theories when we 376 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: talked about ourselves that he has. It's not like the 377 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: man just believes he's never done anything wrong. He's a 378 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: human being and he gets it. But it's it's concerning 379 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: to me some of his level involvement at times. Back 380 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: to the list, we have Shelley Sikes. She was nineteen. 381 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: She disappeared on May six, and she's still missing. Her 382 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: car was found abandon on I forty five, and she's 383 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: one of the ones I'll point out because she was 384 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: four ft eleven and ninety pounds, so it would kind 385 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 1: of look like the profile of a eighteen early teenager 386 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: Suzanne renee Richardson disappeared on October seven, and she was 387 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: twenty two years old. She's also still missing. She was 388 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: five ft eight pounds. She's kind of an outlier here 389 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: because I mean, yeah, I can't think of any like 390 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: twelve year old girl that I've ever met that's also 391 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 1: five eight. You know, I have a family member who 392 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: at fifteen was about five eight or fight. I mean, yeah, 393 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: so it just depends on the person, but yeah, she 394 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: has a bit of an outlier in our general profile 395 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: we're building here. We go to Lynnette Bibbs. She was fourteen, 396 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: disappeared on February one of nineteen. She was found two 397 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: days later. She was out with her friend tomaraw Fisher 398 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: and Tomorrow. Both of the girls disappeared at the same time, 399 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: and both of their bodies were found on the same day, 400 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: which is two days later. They were found on the 401 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: side of the road in Cleveland, Texas. Uh, I had 402 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,719 Speaker 1: got this one, well, this is this is the one 403 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 1: that I got mixed up with the girls in the beginning, 404 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: because it was Tomorrow who was shot in the head 405 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: and Lynnette who was shot twice in the head and 406 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: once in the leg. So I I incorrectly said that earlier. 407 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: It's hard to keep. There's another Jane Doe and she 408 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 1: was found in September of Crystal Baker. She was thirteen. 409 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: She disappeared on March four, store from a convenience store 410 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: and would be found the very next day. So the 411 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: convenience store is just like Laura Miller and Heidi Faye. Um. 412 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: Crystal was beaten, strangle, what's it? Also Brooks and Georgia 413 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: Brooks brace well, Georgia Gear also disapparted. Yeah, you're right, 414 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: You're right. Crystal was found, like I said, she's found 415 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: the very next day. She was underneath and under highway 416 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: overpass and she had been beaten and strangled and sexually assaulted. 417 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: So this is a case where we obvious sexual assault 418 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: because the body was found so fast. We moved forward 419 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: another year and there's Laura Smither. She was twelve. She 420 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: was found went missing on April three and would be 421 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: found seventeen days later. She left her house to go 422 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: jogging and just disappeared. I'm sorry, I'm just shaking my 423 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: head because like, what twelve year old girl are we saying, like, yes, 424 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: let's go out jogging by yourself. So she wanted she 425 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: was she was a ballerina. She wanted to be a 426 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: ballerina like for real life. And somebody said, you need 427 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: to train, and one of the things you need to 428 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,479 Speaker 1: do to make your body stronger is to start running, right, 429 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: That's why she started running. And this this unfortunately led 430 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: to her to mind. She was found in a retention 431 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: pond in Pasadena and she's actually, go ahead, is that 432 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: in that area? Sorry? I just think of Pasadena, California, Pasadena, 433 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: Texas again, it's within like a yeah. So Laura Smither 434 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: is one of the first cases where there was enough 435 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: media attention to the whole thing that the cops actually 436 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: started talking to each other in all of those areas, 437 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: and that's when they started putting this larger picture together 438 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: and realizing there's a bigger problem than any one of 439 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: us realized. Uh there, there's there's three more that I 440 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: have here. One of them I was actually really hesitant 441 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: to put on the list, and that is the next one, 442 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 1: which is Taught Harriman. She's completely an outlier because though 443 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: she just she disappeared on I forty five, because she 444 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: was last seen driving on it and it was the 445 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: twelfth of July of two thousand one. But she's fifty seven, 446 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: so she she does not seem to match what we've 447 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: been talking about so far in the demographic of these girls. Do. 448 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: There is Sarah Trusty. She was twenty three, disappeared on 449 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: July twelfth of two thousand and two and would be 450 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: found just fourteen days later. She'd been less seeing riding 451 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: her bike. She's another one five ft five pounds again, 452 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: kind of kind of within the range more so than 453 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: I would say with Tought. Yeah, more than taught, but 454 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: still she's telling the outlier, and then the last one 455 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: is going to be uh Teresa and Ajus. She was sixteen, 456 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: disappeared on October thirty one of two thousand and six. 457 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: So we've got what like twenty or thirties, almost almost 458 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: thirty years of almost four that's thirty five years. If 459 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 1: he goes from seventy one to two thousand six, that 460 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: could have been more than one. It's possible that somebody 461 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 1: like took over the reins and there were some gaps 462 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: in there too. Yeah, there's totally gaps in there. And 463 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: I think we're gonna have to talk about some of 464 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: this stuff in terms of single versus multiple killers or 465 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: a rapist or abductee abducteurs in the theory section, as 466 00:26:54,320 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: I said, there's so little pattern between when they disappear, 467 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: like it seems like the geography is one of the 468 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: main things. Some are shots, some are not. Some have 469 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: their hands bound and their feet bounds, some do not. 470 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: Some are found fully clothed, some are found fully naked, 471 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: some are completely decomposed. Some are just dumped so that 472 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,479 Speaker 1: they're able to be found the very next day. I mean, 473 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: even the ones who disappeared from their cars, there's really 474 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: no crime scene because though their car is there, there 475 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: was no sign of real struggle. So it's it's extremely 476 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 1: hard to figure out what in the hell is going 477 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: on in this area something bad? And that's the interesting 478 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: thing is that, well, you know, how do you get 479 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: somebody twelve or fifty seven whatever do you trust you 480 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: and get in your car? How do you do that? 481 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: I don't always a total stranger, but I mean there's 482 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 1: there's there's you know a couple of types of people 483 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: who could get that, who could actually do that, like policemen. 484 00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: You know, there is that. Not that I want to 485 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: anger any of our police listeners. I think what you're 486 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: getting at, Joe is a figure of authority. There's a 487 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 1: better way to say that. Could be a policeman, could 488 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: be a fireman, could be a paramedic, could be any 489 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: road service worker. I mean, there's anybody who looks like 490 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: they should be able to they're responsible to help you 491 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: or you know, a cop has an interesting position in 492 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 1: a Sorry, we're like talking a little bit about theories 493 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: right now, but you know, in the instances where cars 494 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: were found abandoned, you say, you know, cop could have 495 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: pulled them over and said you're under arrest and put 496 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: them in the back of their car. And you know, 497 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: most people aren't gonna resist too terribly much. There's not 498 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: going to be much of which crime scheme. It's just 499 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: going to look like there's a left behind car and 500 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: then whoops. I mean, you know, there's a lot of 501 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: different stories you can tell as a cop. You can say, 502 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: you know, i'm here, your parents sent me to take 503 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: you home. You know she's twelve, or if she's you know, 504 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: and in the seventies that was not something that most 505 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: most kids knew was a bogus story. You know, there 506 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 1: was a huge campaign in the seventies and eight e 507 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: d s to not take candy from strangers and not 508 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: let people tell you that your parents sent them to 509 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: pick you up. Cop. Yes, I mean right, there's certain 510 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: figures that have always been quote unquote trustworthy and that 511 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: generally the population will do what they say. Yeah, yeah, usually. 512 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: So Okay, now we've angered all our law enforcement Listen, No, no, 513 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean it's again, it's it's a figure 514 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: of authority or protection or help. That's I mean, that's 515 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: really what that boils down to. Yeah, that's that would 516 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: account for a lot, it would, but it still doesn't 517 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: prove damn thing. It doesn't prove anything. So what we 518 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: have here is we have a theory section. Well normally 519 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: we would call this the theory section, but really today 520 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: it's more of the suspects section. So let's talk about 521 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: our suspects. And we have a huge laundry list of 522 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: scumbags that we're going to talk about here. Basically, we 523 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: had a long list of bodies, and we have a 524 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: long list of scumbags. Yes, not not every single one 525 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,239 Speaker 1: of them is necessarily scumbag. Okay, there's at least one 526 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: guy on here. Okay, the very first guy is not 527 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: a scumbag. The rest of them I consider scumbags. Thank you, Joe. 528 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: That's a good clarification. So let's talk about the very 529 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: first guy. That is Robert Abele and he was brought 530 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: to the attention of authorities. He lived in Texas. He 531 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: lived in the in the area actually adjacent to the 532 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: Calder Road killing Fields. And he was brought to him, Yeah, 533 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: brought to authorities attention nine maybe, and that he was 534 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: brought to them by his soon to be third ex wife. 535 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: He owned a eleven acre property adjacent to the killing fields. Um, 536 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: and that's where Laura Miller and three other bodies were found. 537 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: He initially participated in the searches, at least one search 538 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: for bodies, and he had a horse, stay Able, and 539 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: he loaned horses to the police to use to search 540 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: for bodies. So from all from the outside, it looks 541 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: like this guy is trying to do good. Uh. By 542 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: the way, the stable he ran was called Startus Trails, 543 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: So he seems like a good guy. Able was a 544 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: smart guy. I mean, he had worked for NASA for 545 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: quite a few years and he was part of the 546 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: team that figured out how to get the Saturn rockets 547 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: into space, put rocket motors on him. That's what made 548 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: the difference. Well, he was a literal rocket scientific he was, 549 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: so that means he was actually very smart. I underlining 550 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: the word very when I said it there so, but 551 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: you know, I mean people are people. And he was fallible, 552 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: and he was married several times, and each of his 553 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: wives said that he had anger problems. So he wasn't 554 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: a perfect human. So he did this thing, which is 555 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: very bad, is he threatened to beat each of his wives. 556 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: He did the good thing of actually, yes, he never 557 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: actually struck them. Instead, he would always storm off and 558 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: sometimes he was gone for hours. I believe there's at 559 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: least one instance where he was gone for a day. 560 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: So he just he just left, he got away. But 561 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: he never actually hit them. But he did hit his horses. 562 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: He apparently would use poles and chains on horses when 563 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: they made him angry. Yeah, that's not standard operating procedure. No, 564 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: absolutely not standard operating procedure with horses actually does not work. 565 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: But generally standard operating procedure is never includes hitting things 566 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: with chains or I would think, like I can't think 567 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: of a thing. Well, I know a motor too that 568 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: I've had, Like, you know, an actual combustion engine that 569 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: I whacked it with a pole and it worked better. 570 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: But that's the rare exception, all right, Yeah, speaking, I 571 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: would not I would not whack a horse with anything, 572 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: because they're bigger than I am, a lot bigger. Yes 573 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: they are, they really are. Okay, So so he's he 574 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: lives next to the property. He's a very very smart guy. 575 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: He's known to have this anger problem, and he's known 576 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: to strike animals and disappears when he's angry, and he's 577 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: he can disappear when he's angry. Made him perfectly fit 578 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: and FBI profile of the person who they believed was 579 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: probably killing these young girls. I don't know it really would. 580 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: And and this is where Tim Miller Um Laura's dad 581 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: comes in because unfortunately Tim found out about this, this 582 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: semi match of Able to the profile, and he latched 583 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: on and he totally went off the rails, and he 584 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: accused him to he made such a stink with the police. 585 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: The police looked into Able. He made such a stink 586 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: in the community that Able was ostracized. He went so 587 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: far as to to mount these illegal searches and digs 588 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: of the property around and then Abel's property and then 589 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: actually went on too Abel's property and had people digging 590 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: looking for bodies like he did. He did this, and 591 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: police actually searched this house at least one time, and 592 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: they really turned it upside down and this property. And 593 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: for their part, the police did their job. They went, 594 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 1: they investigated, and what did they find. Nothing squat So 595 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: they stopped looking at him because there was nothing to 596 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: support it. Tim Miller on the other end, he didn't. 597 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: I mean this again. Tim Miller's has apologized. He said 598 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: he apologized to Robert Abele for this behavior. But unfortunately, 599 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: what it resulted in was able being isolated from the 600 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: entire community. The man would walk down the street and 601 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: people would yell killer and get their daughters out of 602 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: his way. That is how bad it was, and how 603 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: afraid people were of him because of everything that had 604 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: been said and all that happened. Really that he just 605 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: happened to live next to where some bozo dumped some bodies, 606 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: you know, and he happened to be good enough to 607 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,399 Speaker 1: try to help. Yeah. Yeah. Also he'd beat his horse 608 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: and he did bad things, but he didn't do them 609 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: to these girls. I don't think so, Like I said, 610 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 1: Tim Tim Miller, He says that he eventually apologized and 611 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: that they talked and Able understood, but the damage had 612 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 1: been done. In two thousand five, Robert Abel died. He 613 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,439 Speaker 1: was driving a golf cart and he drove his golf 614 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: cart into the path of an oncoming train. That death 615 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: was ruled an accident, though to me that smells quite 616 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:47,959 Speaker 1: a lot like suicide. But I don't know. But that's 617 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 1: that's where everything about Abel ends. And he's one of 618 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: the big ones that you'll hear about because he was 619 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: we're officially saying stop it. Yes, Abel Abel was an 620 00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: innocent man and everything that I can tell. But if 621 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: you if you do do a search on this particular topic, 622 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: his his name will come up and headline, Oh yeah, 623 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: there's a there's a huge article. One of the first 624 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: articles I read about him, I was like, Oh my god, 625 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: why haven't they arrested this man? It was from like 626 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 1: nineties six. It was a giant Texas monthly article. I 627 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: can't remember the author's name, and it was called is 628 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,919 Speaker 1: Robert Able getting Away with Murder? And it's the first 629 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 1: one you find, And I was like, Oh my gosh, 630 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: why aren't they And then I started reading everything after that. 631 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: And realized, you know, that it was not what it 632 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: appeared to be based on the information or the accusations 633 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: that were made. So let's move away from Robert Abele. 634 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: We're gonna very very very doubtful to me. We're gonna 635 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:48,359 Speaker 1: say like one on a scale of correct. Next up, 636 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: we have Kevin Edison Smith. He's got a middle name. 637 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,439 Speaker 1: He gets my vote. So everybody in this story after 638 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,919 Speaker 1: Robert Abele I used their middle name killers. Yes, well 639 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: actually homelinded for me. You remember Crystal Baker. She was 640 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: the girl who disappeared in March of ninety six and 641 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: then was found in under the overpass UH forty miles away. 642 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,720 Speaker 1: She got into a argument with grandma and then ran away. 643 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: She was also she was seeing at the She's one 644 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: of your ones, Joe, that was seen at the convenience store. 645 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: She was using a pay phone to call her bomb. 646 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: That's what she was doing. Well, because of what a 647 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: screw up everything was between all of the local police departments, 648 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: she was listed as missing for two weeks. Her family 649 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: didn't know where she was for two weeks. Even though 650 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: they had found her body the very next day, there 651 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: was nothing that the police could find at the crime 652 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 1: scene to indicate who had killed her, and they had 653 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: no leads, and so her case was cold for fourteen years. 654 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: Then fourteen years later, so that would be about two 655 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: thousand and ten, there was an investigator somebody in the 656 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 1: forensics office, and I cannot remember who this lady's and 657 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: what this lady's name was, but for some reason she 658 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: was looking at this case and she decided to send 659 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: off the one I think was addressed that they had 660 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: of crystals and send it to the lab to just 661 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: screen it for d N A and lo and behold, 662 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: they found actual usable DNA on it. And even better. 663 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 1: At the same time, Kevin Edison Smith in Louisiana had 664 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 1: been booked on charges if Louisiana law said, if you 665 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: get booked and you get thrown into jail, we're going 666 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: to take your DNA and drop your your DNA into 667 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: the system. And he was. He was a match to 668 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: this case fourteen years later, which is amazing. This is 669 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: good he didn't get arrested like a month later in 670 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:44,760 Speaker 1: a different state. If you've been arrested in a different 671 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: state that didn't have this law, we may never know this. 672 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: So the Texas Police Department, they get involved in. They 673 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: interrogate him about the case, and at first he he 674 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,399 Speaker 1: says that he doesn't have any knowledge of it, didn't 675 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: know what they're talking about, but slowly, truly, and then 676 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: eventually he admits to it. And he says he never 677 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: sexually assaulted her, which we knows a lie because she 678 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: was sexually assaulted. Well, I mean technically, technically, I guess 679 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,319 Speaker 1: she could have had sex prior to him killing her. 680 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: Is that she could have been sexually assaulted, either be 681 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: by you know, I don't know, he could have not 682 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: killed her, I guess technically or something some really horrible 683 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 1: human could have come along and been like, oh, a 684 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: dead body and done necrophilia. Yeah, or you know, she 685 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: could have been assaulted before it could have been Yeah, 686 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: you're right, that would be rather opportunistic. I'm going to 687 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: put my money on the fact that he's a liar. Okay, 688 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: that's much if you're probably Okay, So I guess if 689 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 1: you admit to murdering them, I don't know why you 690 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: wouldn't also admit to sexually assaulting but whatever. Yeah, yeah, 691 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 1: this is why I'm putting my money on it. Okay, 692 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: So he said that, like I said, he he says 693 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,080 Speaker 1: he never assaulted her, but he said he did of 694 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: her a ride. And he admits that in that day 695 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 1: and that not necessarily that day, but that time frame 696 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: of his life, he was drinking a lot, he was 697 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:10,959 Speaker 1: doing a lot of drugs, and so he doesn't remember 698 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: exactly what was going on, but he remembers that quote unquote, 699 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:21,799 Speaker 1: she started freaking out and hitting and punching him. Well, 700 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: that's that's yeah, that's kind of what I would think 701 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 1: was going on. He probably wasn't driving when this was happening, 702 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 1: and he said that his response was to strangle her, 703 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: and then she was dead, and then he decided, I 704 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,800 Speaker 1: don't know what to do, so he dumped her body, 705 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: and he drove her body many many miles away. So 706 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,360 Speaker 1: it almost makes you wonder like he had seen this 707 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: spot before. It's a good place to dump body. It's 708 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: a little funny that he took that that corpse so far. Again, 709 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying is like, I don't necessarily know 710 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: why you wouldn't why you would say, yeah, I strangled 711 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: her and then dumped her body, but but I didn't 712 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: her Okay, Well, yeah, I mean the thing to do 713 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,360 Speaker 1: is there's DNA to say, yeah, I mean she was 714 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: willing we had sex, you know, and then I dropped 715 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: her off, and then now we had sex. Now we 716 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: had sex, and then she freaked out and I had 717 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: a strangler to death, and then I had to get 718 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: rid of the body. No, no, the Devin's right. The 719 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 1: smart money would be to be like, well, yeah, you 720 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 1: found d NA who I was with her? And then 721 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,720 Speaker 1: I dropped her off and she said that was her stop, 722 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: so I let her out and I drove on my way. Yeah, 723 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: that would be another way. Yeah. Now, this guy, how 724 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: you managed to avoid the death penalty I will not know, 725 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: but he did manage to do so. So he is 726 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: currently serving forty years in prison. Yeah, not even life. Okay, 727 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 1: now it's a forty year sentence. Yeah, that's how long 728 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,280 Speaker 1: he's in there. But the thing that Joe has pointed 729 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 1: out and we're gonna talk about now is the convenience 730 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 1: story angle, because if you remember, Laura Miller back in 731 00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,080 Speaker 1: also disappeared from the front of a convenience store, and 732 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: there's a couple of other girls. Laura Miller actually disappeared 733 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,759 Speaker 1: from the front of the same convenience stores Crystal, but 734 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,800 Speaker 1: there's a couple others who disappeared from the fronts of 735 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 1: convenience stores. And this guy, you know, he was strangling women, 736 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,840 Speaker 1: and he strangled this girl at least, and we know 737 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 1: that he was in the area. We also know that 738 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 1: he was living. Oh god, I think it was over 739 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: the course of twenty years, he lived in seventeen cities 740 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: in four different states. So he was he was a 741 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: rambling man, is what I was gonna say. But he was. 742 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:40,439 Speaker 1: He was. He was roaming around doing work. So it's 743 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,400 Speaker 1: entirely possible that there are girls in this age bracket 744 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 1: who were strangled in these cities where he lived, and 745 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,879 Speaker 1: he could be responsible. Unfortunately, to play the other side 746 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,400 Speaker 1: of the coin, there's girls in other cities where he 747 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: did not live who were in this age bracket who 748 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: were who died by strangulation. So just because that happens, 749 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 1: we can't say it's him going on unfortunately, Yeah, but 750 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: they are. They did run his DNA, and that's the 751 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 1: hard part. Like we talked about, so many these bodies, 752 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: they're in a marsh or they're in a ditch for months, 753 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 1: there's no good DNA left. It's hard as hell to 754 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: get anything that's usable. Okay, let's keep going. We've talked 755 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,240 Speaker 1: about Kevin Edison Smith enough, so let's talk about Henry 756 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,560 Speaker 1: Lee Lucas. That guy. Yeah, so Henry Lee Lucas, he's 757 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,960 Speaker 1: a self confessed serial killer. Yeah, he's thought to have 758 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: exaggerated some of his the number of his kills just 759 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,320 Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah, I I would agree with that. 760 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 1: I believe we'll get through and we'll talk about here 761 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 1: the number that he claims. But he was arrested in 762 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,919 Speaker 1: Texas in June of night three. That's when he really 763 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,560 Speaker 1: kind of came onto the radar in Texas for this 764 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,919 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. When he was fifteen, he ran away 765 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,479 Speaker 1: from home. I mean, get me wrong. His home life 766 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:06,719 Speaker 1: was horrible. Um, his family was terrible, and his mother 767 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,840 Speaker 1: was a prostitute and she made him watch her with 768 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,040 Speaker 1: clients like this is not the good upbringing that a 769 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:16,680 Speaker 1: boy should have. Yeah, any child should have. So, I mean, 770 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,600 Speaker 1: I you can understand why the kid left. But he 771 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 1: says that he killed for the first time in nineteen 772 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: fifty one when a girl refused his sexual advances. He 773 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,680 Speaker 1: then would go on in nineteen sixty to kill his 774 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,760 Speaker 1: own mother with a knife. He said he didn't realize 775 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,279 Speaker 1: he had stabbed her. She said, I know, I heard 776 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: the story is like he he was like, you know, 777 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,359 Speaker 1: I just hit her. It on. Then I looked down, 778 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: I saw the knife in my hand, and I was like, whoopsie. 779 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,000 Speaker 1: And that's essentially what that really was his story. He 780 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:50,480 Speaker 1: didn't say whopsie exactly. Yeah, I mean yeah, he uh. 781 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 1: He did end up going to jail for that. In prison, 782 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 1: he served ten years for that crime. Technically, he was 783 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,120 Speaker 1: supposed to serve one need to forty, but unfortunately the 784 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:07,560 Speaker 1: there was this push to early release because there's prison overcrowding, 785 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,560 Speaker 1: so he got out early. And the man who stabs 786 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: his mother to death is really the best candidate released programs. Yeah, 787 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 1: they probably looked at it as an abusive situation, whereas 788 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,080 Speaker 1: he's not likely to go out randomly killing people left 789 00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:24,879 Speaker 1: and right. Oh no. But the problem was his story 790 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:26,960 Speaker 1: didn't match up because he said, you know, like you said, 791 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 1: he realized the knife was in his hand and he said, oh, 792 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 1: look she's dead, and he ran away, except wasn't actually dead. 793 00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,680 Speaker 1: His sister came and found their mother still alive, but 794 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,360 Speaker 1: she did not. She didn't live live long enough to 795 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,680 Speaker 1: get to the hospital. Like the guy. Yeah, it's it's yeah, 796 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,200 Speaker 1: it's a really nice guy, a really nice guy. So 797 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 1: he gets out, This would be nineteen sixty, in nineteen seventy, 798 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,720 Speaker 1: excuse me, nineteen seventy he went in and around nineteen sixty. 799 00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,840 Speaker 1: He got out around nineteen seventy, and then in nineteen 800 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 1: have any one, he was convicted of attempting to kidnap 801 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 1: three girls. Uh, and after he gives and then after 802 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: they let him out for a second time, thinking this 803 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,520 Speaker 1: guy is gonna just be real, rehabilitated, no problems. Yeah, yeah. 804 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 1: And after he after he got out from the conviction 805 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,680 Speaker 1: of of trying to kidnap those three girls, he continued 806 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,719 Speaker 1: to beat and kill. He was arrested in night. Yeah, 807 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 1: not really. He was arrested on charges of unlawful possession 808 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,440 Speaker 1: of a firearm and that actually quickly grew into a 809 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:40,400 Speaker 1: larger charge for the murders of both Frieda Powell. And 810 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,040 Speaker 1: Frieda was a girl that he had met. I believe 811 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:47,440 Speaker 1: he met her in Florida. She's described as having quote 812 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 1: unquote intellectual impairments, So I don't know where she is 813 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 1: on the range of impairments what that means. But he 814 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:55,960 Speaker 1: had convinced this girl to travel with him, and he 815 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,920 Speaker 1: treated her like a girlfriend until he grew tired of her. 816 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,759 Speaker 1: How old was he at this point? Oh he is, 817 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:09,880 Speaker 1: so he yeah, he's in his his early third Oh no, 818 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:15,040 Speaker 1: he's in his forties at this point. Old yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 819 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:19,399 Speaker 1: yeah absolutely so. So he's he's charged for killing free 820 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,239 Speaker 1: to Powell. He's also charged at the same time with 821 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,400 Speaker 1: killing a pastor who had given him work and allowed 822 00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 1: him to stay in a building that his religious movement owned. 823 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:36,319 Speaker 1: So he's all around just not a nice guy people. 824 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 1: And this is where what Joe was talking about when 825 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,160 Speaker 1: we first talked about Henry Lee Lucas comes in, is 826 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,920 Speaker 1: that once he got arrested, he's and he confessed to 827 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:54,160 Speaker 1: the first ones. He started confessing to everything. His confessions 828 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: initially at least seemed to be related to the crimes 829 00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: that he committed, but then he started and meeting involvement 830 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:06,240 Speaker 1: and guilt in crimes that were unsolved, and he seemed 831 00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,840 Speaker 1: to be really good at filling in some details, so 832 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,759 Speaker 1: people kind of thought that it was him. Eventually, it 833 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: seems like he's probably been discredited almost everything that he's 834 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,040 Speaker 1: admitted to because he claimed credit for like three hundred 835 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,120 Speaker 1: murders somebod Yeah, somebody who did the math on a 836 00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 1: lot of these murders, And it would have required him 837 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,799 Speaker 1: to like drive for like a year, drive to three 838 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 1: hundred seventy miles a day to get around all these 839 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,320 Speaker 1: places to commit these murders. And obviously I'm sure it 840 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,239 Speaker 1: killed lots of people. He you know, not as many 841 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,880 Speaker 1: as he contested to. I hate to admit, you're right, 842 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,239 Speaker 1: he probably did kill a bunch of people. And he 843 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:48,279 Speaker 1: would have been traveling through the area between Houston and Galveston, 844 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,120 Speaker 1: So it's possible that he could be involved in one 845 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:56,359 Speaker 1: or two of the deaths. But it's really tough to say. 846 00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,320 Speaker 1: And he's I mean, in a way, he's done a 847 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:04,040 Speaker 1: really great job of clouding himself in just disbelief. You know, 848 00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:07,239 Speaker 1: nobody believes him. So when somebody suggests, oh, I wonder 849 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,600 Speaker 1: if he did it, everybody like, no, that guy admits 850 00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,000 Speaker 1: he did everything. There's no way we can trust him 851 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,960 Speaker 1: to be usable. Yeah, So, I mean, there's there is 852 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,720 Speaker 1: a little game theory in that if you start claiming 853 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,560 Speaker 1: responsibility for everything, eventually people will not believe you in 854 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,960 Speaker 1: the time that you are actually responsible nobody will believe it. 855 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,400 Speaker 1: What's he got to lose or gain? I don't know. 856 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:31,680 Speaker 1: But these guys, guys like this are so weird because 857 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,040 Speaker 1: they started meeting this stuff. Just so then get the 858 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,680 Speaker 1: body count, the number to go down in history. Well, 859 00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 1: one thing I will just say is this is eight 860 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,800 Speaker 1: three right that he got arrested. That he starts admitting 861 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,320 Speaker 1: to a bunch of murders. Yeah, so like most of 862 00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:54,680 Speaker 1: these women didn't really disappear. I mean, there's a slew 863 00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,759 Speaker 1: of him in the seventies, there's But the thing is, 864 00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:03,480 Speaker 1: remember he's but remember he's in jail. Yeah, so that's 865 00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,960 Speaker 1: why I say he might be maybe culpable for one 866 00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,239 Speaker 1: or two, but that's that's kind of stretching. Well, no, 867 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,600 Speaker 1: he was, he was out. Oh I don't know how 868 00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:13,239 Speaker 1: long he was in jail for the kidnap of the 869 00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,680 Speaker 1: three girls. I guess, Yeah, I don't have that here. 870 00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:18,799 Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean I don't think he's I don't 871 00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,040 Speaker 1: think he did it. But you know, it's hard to say, 872 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,680 Speaker 1: hard to say, let's kick him to the curb. Okay, 873 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,600 Speaker 1: let's let's kick him all very hard. Let's let's move on. 874 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,759 Speaker 1: We're going to move on to the one here that 875 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:37,400 Speaker 1: is titled Unnamed Man in one. Yeah. This okay, so 876 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,200 Speaker 1: I I again, this is one of the thoes I 877 00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:43,120 Speaker 1: really hesitated to include, but dagnabbic we include them also, Okay. 878 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,640 Speaker 1: Ronna Johnson and Sharon Shaw, if you remember, those were 879 00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 1: the two girls who went to the beach in Galveston 880 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,600 Speaker 1: in seventy one and then never came home. And Michael 881 00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,560 Speaker 1: self was the guy who was convicted of murdering these 882 00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,480 Speaker 1: two girls. Well, according to Unsolved Mysteries and it's all 883 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,480 Speaker 1: it's like listed in their WICKI some man came forward 884 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:09,320 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty and went to the police and he 885 00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,320 Speaker 1: admitted that he was the one that did it, and 886 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,040 Speaker 1: he gave details that weren't released, such as the fact 887 00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,719 Speaker 1: that the girls were apparently bound with electrical cords. But 888 00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,640 Speaker 1: according to this, they say, oh god, how do they 889 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,920 Speaker 1: describe him? They say that he they make a statement 890 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,440 Speaker 1: about his mental mental health, and I cannot remember the 891 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:38,200 Speaker 1: verbiage that is used, basically saying that he was um 892 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,200 Speaker 1: not having visions, but he was delusional. Okay, But my 893 00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 1: problem with that his a It came for months of mystery. 894 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,480 Speaker 1: So I don't and I haven't seen anywhere else. So 895 00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,160 Speaker 1: I have a hard time with it. I mean, they 896 00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,160 Speaker 1: actually did do their own independent investigations. Often they did, 897 00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,440 Speaker 1: although it would be sometimes it's nice to spice things 898 00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:58,719 Speaker 1: up a little bit not saying they did that. My 899 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,719 Speaker 1: my point is, if this guy had details like that, 900 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,120 Speaker 1: don't you think there would be record of it somewhere? 901 00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,040 Speaker 1: If somebody like actually saying, oh, we're going to investigate 902 00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:13,160 Speaker 1: this guy, Like, don't you think that uh self would 903 00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,160 Speaker 1: have somehow heard of this and they would have tried 904 00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,239 Speaker 1: to track down the records of this to exonerate that 905 00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,200 Speaker 1: poor guy who still was sitting in jail at that 906 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,680 Speaker 1: point almost ten years for friend we didn't commit. I 907 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:28,960 Speaker 1: feel like there may have been some sense of, I 908 00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,040 Speaker 1: don't know, this guy seems like he might not be 909 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:36,640 Speaker 1: totally mentally there, so realistically he's gonna get sent he's 910 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,520 Speaker 1: going to get committed, not sent to prison, and well, 911 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,880 Speaker 1: we've already convicted this guy of it, and like, you know, 912 00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,080 Speaker 1: he might be guilty, even if there's some questions about it. 913 00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,439 Speaker 1: And I there may just be a sense of like, well, 914 00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,600 Speaker 1: we already got there's already somebody who's rotting for this case, 915 00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:58,000 Speaker 1: so screw it. Yeah, I gotta tell you that as 916 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,840 Speaker 1: a taxpayer, if that's the opinion of the police force, 917 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,880 Speaker 1: with my tax dollars, is what we got somebody locked up, 918 00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:05,400 Speaker 1: So screw it. We're not going to figure out if 919 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,400 Speaker 1: we did it right. That's not really a good attitude 920 00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,040 Speaker 1: I would be. That makes me very upset. I agree. 921 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,440 Speaker 1: I'm just trying. Even if I weren't paying taxes, that 922 00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,719 Speaker 1: wouldn't be happy about that. Frankly, well, I know there 923 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,200 Speaker 1: was a year or two that you didn't but sorry, 924 00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:23,160 Speaker 1: iron rest listeners, I forget you heard that. Uh yeah. 925 00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,120 Speaker 1: And as far as the detail about tying up with 926 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,120 Speaker 1: electrical cord, I mean, that's not that bizarre. It could 927 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:30,600 Speaker 1: have just been a major you know, you could have 928 00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,239 Speaker 1: been delusional, confessed to a crime he didn't commit. We're 929 00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:37,600 Speaker 1: gonna move to our next suspect in our laundry list 930 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,799 Speaker 1: of suspects. This is number five and this giant list 931 00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:46,400 Speaker 1: that I created, Okay, we have William Lewis Reefs. William 932 00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,640 Speaker 1: Lewis Reefs committed his first crime when he was caught 933 00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,920 Speaker 1: and charged in night six h for picking up a 934 00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,360 Speaker 1: nineteen year old girl in Oklahoma. He did that with 935 00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:00,360 Speaker 1: pretense of giving her a ride. Instead, he abducted and 936 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,880 Speaker 1: raped her for several days in the sleeper cab of 937 00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,720 Speaker 1: a semi Okay, first of all, let's just go ahead 938 00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:08,680 Speaker 1: and say he probably didn't commit his first crime at 939 00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,880 Speaker 1: that time. His first crime forgetting that he was caught 940 00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,320 Speaker 1: for is the way that I meant to phrase, that's 941 00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,960 Speaker 1: a better way to look at Yes, he uh, well, 942 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:23,600 Speaker 1: this this girl, she she managed to escape under the 943 00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,320 Speaker 1: pretense of using a bathroom or something, I can't remember 944 00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,759 Speaker 1: what it was. And then while and then he got 945 00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,800 Speaker 1: charged for doing this crime. And while he was awaiting 946 00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,920 Speaker 1: trial out on bail. Yes, well, he's out on bail 947 00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:41,120 Speaker 1: for this rape case. He raped another woman that he 948 00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,800 Speaker 1: had met in a bar. But this guy seems to 949 00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:48,239 Speaker 1: have a compulsion. Maybe he was sentenced to twenty five 950 00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,960 Speaker 1: years in prison for the first rape. I think that 951 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,440 Speaker 1: he was sentenced for. Maybe it was twenty five years total. 952 00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,000 Speaker 1: I can't remember at the moment. Twenty five years done. 953 00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,560 Speaker 1: Unless this guy should be locked up at kept away 954 00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:04,640 Speaker 1: from the general populace, Yeah, not so much. He only 955 00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:08,520 Speaker 1: served ten only served ten years of that sentence. He 956 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:15,600 Speaker 1: was then again put into jail in seven for kidnapping 957 00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,800 Speaker 1: a woman, just like Kevin Edison Smith. When he was 958 00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:23,719 Speaker 1: put into jail in nine seven, his DNA was put 959 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,960 Speaker 1: into the system and checked against other cases. And after 960 00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:32,720 Speaker 1: that he started getting linked to other unsolved crimes and cases. 961 00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,080 Speaker 1: So this guy he went about this, he wanted to 962 00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,040 Speaker 1: avoid the death penalty because he was in jail if 963 00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:42,879 Speaker 1: I remember right in Oklahoma, maybe it's Louisiana. I can't 964 00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:46,640 Speaker 1: remember which what it was, but it has the death penalty. 965 00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,799 Speaker 1: And his deal was, you don't put me on death row, 966 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,920 Speaker 1: you don't try me for murder. Uh and and I'll 967 00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:58,759 Speaker 1: go ahead and I'll help you out. It's not well. 968 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:04,080 Speaker 1: And so he led investigators into the field and he 969 00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,360 Speaker 1: took them to where the body of Jessica Caine was. 970 00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:13,040 Speaker 1: She had disappeared in Yes, she was. She was one 971 00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:14,719 Speaker 1: of the last ones we talked about in that that 972 00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:18,120 Speaker 1: in that thirty person list. He also took them to 973 00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,840 Speaker 1: where the body of a girl named Kelly Cox was. 974 00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,040 Speaker 1: She had gone missing around the same time as Jessica, 975 00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:28,040 Speaker 1: though she wasn't actually on our list. Kelly wasn't Jessica was. 976 00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:36,240 Speaker 1: Jessica was the seventeen Yeah, okay, he is also believed 977 00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,960 Speaker 1: to be connected to the disappearance of twelve year old 978 00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,719 Speaker 1: Laura Smither. Yeah, the one who went jogging. Why is that? 979 00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,880 Speaker 1: Why is he suspected of that? There are links in 980 00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:52,680 Speaker 1: his pattern and his travels that make people think that 981 00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:56,759 Speaker 1: he was in the area when it happened. But it's 982 00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,840 Speaker 1: obviously it's nothing concrete because he has not been charged 983 00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:04,040 Speaker 1: with her death, but they think that he might be 984 00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:07,200 Speaker 1: involved in that. I mean, but I think about the guy. 985 00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,120 Speaker 1: Was he was driving a truck. He was driving all 986 00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:13,399 Speaker 1: over He was driving from Galveston all the way up 987 00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:19,920 Speaker 1: into Oklahoma. What's the main city, Oklahoma City? Wow, Steve, 988 00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:24,600 Speaker 1: good job. Yeah, he was driving all from north to 989 00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:29,360 Speaker 1: south along that route, driving a truck all the time. Well, 990 00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,320 Speaker 1: Interstate forty five is part is the route between Houston 991 00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,480 Speaker 1: to Galveston, So he's on that road. And if he's 992 00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:40,240 Speaker 1: he's just out and about stealing girls and raping and 993 00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,640 Speaker 1: killing them, then again, just like we said before, it's 994 00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:48,280 Speaker 1: possible that he could be involved with at least one 995 00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,760 Speaker 1: or two others that are on our list that just 996 00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,880 Speaker 1: didn't get any recomfortable d NA. Yeah, the ones that 997 00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:56,920 Speaker 1: we're not out, we're outside the killing fields, but somewhere 998 00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:00,640 Speaker 1: else along And we talked about this little bit before, 999 00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:04,520 Speaker 1: and let's give a little more description of what's going 1000 00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:07,280 Speaker 1: on in terms of what it has to be like 1001 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:11,000 Speaker 1: for these poor girls. Because you think, well, they're on 1002 00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:12,720 Speaker 1: the side of the road or there near the road, 1003 00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,680 Speaker 1: like they should be able to run and scream and 1004 00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:21,160 Speaker 1: get help there. Well, it's it's oil fields active and 1005 00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:26,360 Speaker 1: abandon its giant expanses. Apparently it is amazingly windy. So 1006 00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,800 Speaker 1: you can yell at somebody fifty feet away, say, and 1007 00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:33,240 Speaker 1: they'd have no idea. Cars are whizzing by on the 1008 00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:37,120 Speaker 1: interstate a couple hundred yards away. They're not going to 1009 00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:39,760 Speaker 1: see what's happening. I mean, one of the cops in this, 1010 00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:43,080 Speaker 1: in the Smither case, was talking about the fact that 1011 00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:46,120 Speaker 1: you could literally get off the freeway, drive off the 1012 00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,760 Speaker 1: the off ramp, down a dirt road, drive for five minutes. 1013 00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:55,760 Speaker 1: You are now in a complete and total seclusion, drop 1014 00:58:55,840 --> 00:59:00,080 Speaker 1: a body, drive back onto the freeway, and be on 1015 00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:04,840 Speaker 1: and no soul would be the wiser for months on end. 1016 00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:06,240 Speaker 1: And the only reason they would know is because they 1017 00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,000 Speaker 1: found the body you dumped. So this is this is 1018 00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:11,160 Speaker 1: the kind of situation. This is why. So I know 1019 00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,200 Speaker 1: some people are going, how is this possible? This doesn't 1020 00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:18,200 Speaker 1: make any sense. It is it's such a rural area. 1021 00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,000 Speaker 1: It's it's just a stretch of road that is a 1022 00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:23,360 Speaker 1: freeway with a couple of little towns dotting it, and 1023 00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,160 Speaker 1: then it's marshes and dirt roads. It's all it is. 1024 00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:30,240 Speaker 1: So it's it's why these girls are so hard to find. 1025 00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,760 Speaker 1: Um okay, So off of that soapbox or whatever it 1026 00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,640 Speaker 1: was that I was on there for the moment, I think, um, 1027 00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:42,240 Speaker 1: William Reese is a pretty good I think that this 1028 00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,880 Speaker 1: guy is probably responsible for a couple of the fact 1029 00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:48,240 Speaker 1: that he Okay, it didn't happen right away, but in 1030 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:53,200 Speaker 1: watching what happened and it evolved, in his willingness to cooperate, 1031 00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:58,240 Speaker 1: I would call that a knee jerk reaction of Oh, hell, 1032 00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:00,520 Speaker 1: they're going to figure out all all the ones that 1033 01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:04,680 Speaker 1: I did. I'm just gonna I'm gonna roll over. He 1034 01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,560 Speaker 1: folded like a cheap suit, and he went ahead and 1035 01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,960 Speaker 1: he told him what he needed to make sure that 1036 01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:14,200 Speaker 1: they didn't kill him. Every single body, just a couple 1037 01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,520 Speaker 1: of them, right, I mean, but his ability to lead 1038 01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:20,800 Speaker 1: them to certain bodies, it sounds like definitely, you know, 1039 01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,440 Speaker 1: I it's probably likely that he's responsible for the majority 1040 01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:29,600 Speaker 1: of the Strangolds bodies and maybe not the shot ones. 1041 01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:32,800 Speaker 1: So that's the weird thing, is the ones that were shot. 1042 01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:37,320 Speaker 1: I've never I've never found anybody who followed that pattern 1043 01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:42,080 Speaker 1: of steal a girl and then once he has committed 1044 01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:44,920 Speaker 1: whatever whatever acts he was intending to commit with her, 1045 01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:47,800 Speaker 1: his method of getting to kill her was to shoot 1046 01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:49,840 Speaker 1: her in the head. Like, none of these guys that 1047 01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:53,000 Speaker 1: we're talking about match that. Yeah, but it's a it's 1048 01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:59,240 Speaker 1: a weird thing in the early pattern of of these deaths. Yeah. Man, 1049 01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:01,520 Speaker 1: By the way, the the shots to the head, what 1050 01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,480 Speaker 1: caliber of gun were they? They were smaller caliber if 1051 01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,280 Speaker 1: I remember. I want to say that I read once 1052 01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:09,280 Speaker 1: and it was a twenty two that they were shot 1053 01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,280 Speaker 1: in the head. But I cannot be sure of that, Joe, 1054 01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,120 Speaker 1: because I've been reading about this obviously for a while. 1055 01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:18,240 Speaker 1: And then four or five days ago, I was like, crap, 1056 01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:21,000 Speaker 1: what caliber was it that they were killed with? And 1057 01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,000 Speaker 1: I started going back and of course you know how 1058 01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,360 Speaker 1: this is. Suddenly you can't find it anymore because the 1059 01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:28,560 Speaker 1: Internet has deleted that information from itself, so that I 1060 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:34,560 Speaker 1: cannot answer that question. I'll ask stupid Internet are Oh yeah, 1061 01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:38,000 Speaker 1: it's the kool aid man should break in right now 1062 01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:40,880 Speaker 1: and say that, Oh yeah, No, there were a ton 1063 01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:42,800 Speaker 1: of suspects in this thing. I mean I was. I 1064 01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:45,560 Speaker 1: was compiling a list of my own and it looks 1065 01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:47,640 Speaker 1: like you didn't miss anybody, but my list was getting 1066 01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:50,560 Speaker 1: pretty long. Was wow, I almost had to go to 1067 01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:56,000 Speaker 1: a spreadsheet of suspects. Yeah, and that just rubbed me wrong. 1068 01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:57,760 Speaker 1: I don't wanted to make a spreadsheet at These people 1069 01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:00,880 Speaker 1: have hard enough time. I had him on my computer 1070 01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:03,240 Speaker 1: as it is. Okay, we're gonna go to the next guy, 1071 01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:07,320 Speaker 1: which is Edward Harold Bell got Bells a weirdo. Bell 1072 01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:13,080 Speaker 1: showed up in Pasadena, Texas on August. He was in 1073 01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:16,800 Speaker 1: a neighborhood. He got out of his truck in front 1074 01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:19,480 Speaker 1: of a bunch of children who are playing, and he 1075 01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:21,360 Speaker 1: didn't have any pants on. You thought it was a 1076 01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:26,000 Speaker 1: cartoon duck. Maybe no pants, No wonder where he he is. 1077 01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:29,560 Speaker 1: Just there's a phrase for when you wear only a shirt, 1078 01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:31,480 Speaker 1: and I'm actually not going to say that that's what 1079 01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:34,840 Speaker 1: he was doing. There's a guy by the name of 1080 01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:39,840 Speaker 1: Larry Dickens Larry's mom yells to him and says, listen, 1081 01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:42,919 Speaker 1: slow that guy down, don't let him get near the kids, 1082 01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,160 Speaker 1: in delaying long enough for the cops to get here. 1083 01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:48,000 Speaker 1: So Larry Dickens does that. He's a stand up guy, 1084 01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:51,960 Speaker 1: and he gets in his way. He eventually takes Bell's 1085 01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:57,280 Speaker 1: keys out of Bell's truck, at which point Bell loses it. 1086 01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:01,560 Speaker 1: He shoots Dickens a couple of times with a pistol. 1087 01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:05,880 Speaker 1: Larry Dickens runs away. He runs into the garage of 1088 01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,960 Speaker 1: his mom's house and he collapses. His mom is holding him. 1089 01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,240 Speaker 1: Bell comes up and demands the car keys or the 1090 01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:15,760 Speaker 1: truck keys back. Larry gives him the keys, at which 1091 01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:19,439 Speaker 1: point Bell shoots him point blank in the head while 1092 01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:22,360 Speaker 1: his mother is still holding him, and then walks back 1093 01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:26,440 Speaker 1: to the truck. And while this seems not normal, you 1094 01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:28,200 Speaker 1: would think at this point he would then get in 1095 01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:30,720 Speaker 1: his truck and drive away. No, he grabs a rifle 1096 01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:35,160 Speaker 1: and he comes back and he continues to shoot Larry 1097 01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:39,600 Speaker 1: in the face. Yeah. He then at this point he 1098 01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:43,160 Speaker 1: tries to get away and it takes not come back 1099 01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:45,760 Speaker 1: with the rifle if he want, Yeah, if he was 1100 01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:49,080 Speaker 1: trying to Yeah, that was that was a bit excessive, 1101 01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:53,400 Speaker 1: a bit yes, understatement of the year on my part. 1102 01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,240 Speaker 1: So he tries to get away, the cops catching me 1103 01:03:56,360 --> 01:04:00,440 Speaker 1: like twenty minutes that he didn't do any very good 1104 01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:02,960 Speaker 1: job at all trying to escape. But this is a 1105 01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:06,400 Speaker 1: part of the next part is what really puzzles me. Well, 1106 01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:08,800 Speaker 1: but the brutality of the case, because I mean, they 1107 01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,840 Speaker 1: bring him back and his sister, Larry's sister ideas him 1108 01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:16,600 Speaker 1: and you know, oh the release Okay, okay, yeah, they 1109 01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:19,320 Speaker 1: let this bozo go. They charge him and they release 1110 01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:26,120 Speaker 1: him on bail, and he's gone. What a surprise, shocking Yeah, yeah, no, no, 1111 01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,040 Speaker 1: I guano. He has gone, and he is at large 1112 01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:34,280 Speaker 1: for a total of fourteen years. Bell is eventually rest 1113 01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:39,840 Speaker 1: arrested in Panama. In there is a Panama Florida. Yea 1114 01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:42,760 Speaker 1: Panama City. I think Florida. Yeah, I think that's I 1115 01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:45,360 Speaker 1: think it is. It's Panama City, Florida. I just realized, like, 1116 01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:49,080 Speaker 1: not Panama of the country, was Panama of the city. 1117 01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:52,280 Speaker 1: And I believe it was in Florida. In and at 1118 01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:55,960 Speaker 1: that point he was sentenced to seventy years in prison, 1119 01:04:56,400 --> 01:05:01,760 Speaker 1: just seventy but a and he begins they begin look 1120 01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:05,720 Speaker 1: at his history and his pattern, and they believe that 1121 01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:08,720 Speaker 1: he might actually be the one who was involved in 1122 01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:12,200 Speaker 1: the murders of Rhonda Johnson and Sharon Shaw again, the 1123 01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:17,200 Speaker 1: girls who went to the beach. He's he's another one 1124 01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:21,440 Speaker 1: that this guy. He he fills in details and unsolved 1125 01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:25,800 Speaker 1: mystery or unsolved murders, and he starts confessing to things. 1126 01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:30,640 Speaker 1: And initially he claimed that he had killed seven girls. 1127 01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:35,000 Speaker 1: He then changed that number in two thousand eleven to 1128 01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:40,040 Speaker 1: eleven girls. And a guy like this who makes it 1129 01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:44,000 Speaker 1: makes his own catchphrase. I really god, I really worried 1130 01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:46,960 Speaker 1: that this guy is watching the Apprentice in prison to 1131 01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:49,640 Speaker 1: come up with a catchphrase like this, because his his 1132 01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:54,240 Speaker 1: catchphrase is the eleven that went to Heaven. It's I mean, 1133 01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:58,160 Speaker 1: it's it's disturbing. But he also he makes again, this 1134 01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:01,560 Speaker 1: is one of those things, like these crazy lames. He begins, 1135 01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:06,160 Speaker 1: he's always actually said that it wasn't his fault. It 1136 01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:10,880 Speaker 1: was the government's fault. They brainwashed him, and they programmed him, 1137 01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:14,840 Speaker 1: and they forced him to be a flasher and to 1138 01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:18,960 Speaker 1: rape girls and to want to kill them. It seems 1139 01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:23,120 Speaker 1: like a good suspect for the girls that were shot. Yeah, 1140 01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:27,480 Speaker 1: he did like to shoot people. Yeah, yeah, so, actually 1141 01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:31,160 Speaker 1: I guess I misspoke earlier. He is suddenly flailing firearms. 1142 01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:33,320 Speaker 1: You know who he actually makes me think of is 1143 01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:36,040 Speaker 1: reading his case. It made me think that maybe he 1144 01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:40,640 Speaker 1: was loosely the basis for the movie, Mr Wright, Either 1145 01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:43,880 Speaker 1: of you seen that it's a sam I have. It 1146 01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:47,360 Speaker 1: looks kind of intriguing. It's a Saram Rockwell movie and 1147 01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:51,320 Speaker 1: it is a lot of fun. I saw the description 1148 01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:53,800 Speaker 1: and I was really hesitant, and then my wife and 1149 01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:57,040 Speaker 1: I sat down and watched it. And normally in my house, 1150 01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:00,880 Speaker 1: I'm known for picking really bad Netflix titols. Why did 1151 01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,720 Speaker 1: you pick that movie? That was a horrible movie? She 1152 01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,440 Speaker 1: actually laughed through to the point she's like, okay, and 1153 01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:09,360 Speaker 1: that one was good. Well, I mean, he can't go 1154 01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:14,680 Speaker 1: wrong with saying Rocket who is you know who he is? 1155 01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:21,360 Speaker 1: Next up? Next up? Yeah, we have Clyde Edward Hendrick. Okay, 1156 01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:25,960 Speaker 1: so Hedrick, You're right, not hed So this one and 1157 01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:27,880 Speaker 1: the next one, I'm going to tell people, if you 1158 01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:30,360 Speaker 1: are in a position to do so, please pause and 1159 01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:33,960 Speaker 1: google this guy and look at his mug shot. He 1160 01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,280 Speaker 1: is a Texas resident and he looks like he has 1161 01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:39,560 Speaker 1: lived in the backwoods of Texas for many, many years. 1162 01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:44,800 Speaker 1: It's an amazing mug shot. But Clyde in five was 1163 01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:48,480 Speaker 1: questioned in the investigation of the death of a woman 1164 01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:53,360 Speaker 1: by the name of Ellen Ray Beeson. And initially they 1165 01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:56,560 Speaker 1: didn't know that she was murdered. They just knew that 1166 01:07:56,720 --> 01:08:00,160 Speaker 1: she died and something didn't add up. Uh, And then 1167 01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:03,560 Speaker 1: twenty years later, so they charged him with tampering with 1168 01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:06,960 Speaker 1: a corpse. And then twenty years later they exhumed her 1169 01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:09,480 Speaker 1: body and they reinvestigated the case, and they figured out 1170 01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:11,080 Speaker 1: what was going on. And here's what was going on. 1171 01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:17,439 Speaker 1: According to Hedrick, he and Beason had been out drinking 1172 01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,040 Speaker 1: and then they had gone to some place and she 1173 01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:23,479 Speaker 1: had gotten naked and went skinny dipping, and then she 1174 01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:28,639 Speaker 1: drowned and then a smile face killer thing could have been. 1175 01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:31,640 Speaker 1: When she drowned, he went in to help her, but 1176 01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:34,200 Speaker 1: when he got her body out, she realized she was dead. 1177 01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:36,639 Speaker 1: So he panicked and he threw her in the back 1178 01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:38,880 Speaker 1: of his truck and he looked for a place to 1179 01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:42,599 Speaker 1: dispose of her body and eventually dumped her body. Makes 1180 01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:47,160 Speaker 1: sense when they exhumed the body. This The description of 1181 01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,479 Speaker 1: the case says that when it was in the initial 1182 01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:55,160 Speaker 1: autopsy and body review done, she was not cleaned enough. 1183 01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:58,679 Speaker 1: I believed that that means they did not get enough 1184 01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:02,240 Speaker 1: brain out of her skull to be able to tell 1185 01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:04,679 Speaker 1: this stuff in the x rays. But when they exhumed 1186 01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,360 Speaker 1: her body, and they did a good job, they figured 1187 01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:09,719 Speaker 1: out that part of her skull was caved in because 1188 01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:13,080 Speaker 1: she'd been clubbed in the head with something, which means 1189 01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:15,599 Speaker 1: he had clubbed her in the head and killed her. 1190 01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:20,560 Speaker 1: And that's why he panicked and dumped her body. So 1191 01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:24,200 Speaker 1: why are we talking about this guy? Well, the problem 1192 01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,000 Speaker 1: the reason is is that what he did is where 1193 01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:31,040 Speaker 1: he dumped her body was near called her road, that 1194 01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:35,080 Speaker 1: called the road property, that the killing field. He threw 1195 01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:39,719 Speaker 1: her body. It's reported under a couch, but it's also 1196 01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,679 Speaker 1: another reporting said that it was actually just a bench 1197 01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:48,160 Speaker 1: car seat. The back seat of car is also a 1198 01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:51,280 Speaker 1: dumping ground for stuff other than bodies apparently, So I 1199 01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:55,519 Speaker 1: mean it's an abandoned chunker crown, so not really suprising. Um. 1200 01:09:55,760 --> 01:10:00,160 Speaker 1: So that's why he's he's brought up in this. I 1201 01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:02,080 Speaker 1: gotta tell you that there's not a whole lot of 1202 01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:05,479 Speaker 1: linkage in terms of him to this place other than 1203 01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:07,800 Speaker 1: that one thing. But he is one of the few 1204 01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:09,840 Speaker 1: people that I know of who got charged for the 1205 01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:13,479 Speaker 1: same crime twice and convicted in two different ways. So 1206 01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:16,120 Speaker 1: it goes down the books that way. But I don't 1207 01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:18,080 Speaker 1: think a guy that looked like him would have had 1208 01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:20,479 Speaker 1: an easy time. I've been trying to get girls to 1209 01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:24,439 Speaker 1: climb into his car. Not not in the later years 1210 01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:27,280 Speaker 1: of his life, not the twenty years later. But yeah, okay, 1211 01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:30,880 Speaker 1: well then let's go to one of our final ones here, 1212 01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:35,760 Speaker 1: Bobby Jack Fowler. Did you remember Bobby Jack. Yeah, we 1213 01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:39,680 Speaker 1: heard about Bobby Jack from my favorite murder. Yeah here 1214 01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:44,759 Speaker 1: in Portland. So this guy, this guy, actually I consider 1215 01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:49,080 Speaker 1: him a contender for best mug shot ever. Again, this 1216 01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:52,280 Speaker 1: is another one. Please google this guy's mug shot. You will. 1217 01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:54,640 Speaker 1: You will have a little fun at his expense. And 1218 01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:58,760 Speaker 1: that is perfectly okay given a kind of human Yes, 1219 01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:00,960 Speaker 1: but I don't know if he was a human, to 1220 01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:03,439 Speaker 1: be quite honest, I think he might have actually been 1221 01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:06,479 Speaker 1: a mole person or a retilion or whatever it is 1222 01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:08,920 Speaker 1: you want to call him, because he was another terrible 1223 01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:12,400 Speaker 1: human being. Oh yeah, he is a very prolific serial killer. 1224 01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:15,120 Speaker 1: He's one of the ones that's not so famous as 1225 01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:17,640 Speaker 1: like you know, we've all everybody's heard of Henry Lee, 1226 01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:20,519 Speaker 1: Luca Sinted Bundy. But this guy is a little more obscure. 1227 01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:22,400 Speaker 1: But he killed a lot of people. He did. He 1228 01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:25,760 Speaker 1: did a lot of killing. So Bobby Jack Fowler was 1229 01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:29,240 Speaker 1: a construction worker and he traveled across the US he 1230 01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:32,519 Speaker 1: looked for work. He also, apparently at the same time, 1231 01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:35,920 Speaker 1: was looking for women to have unconsensual sex with and 1232 01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:40,000 Speaker 1: then possibly kill. The man was all over this country. 1233 01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:46,920 Speaker 1: He He's known to have been in British, Columbia, Florida, Iowa, Louisiana, Texas, Oregans, 1234 01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:52,960 Speaker 1: South Carolina, Arizona, Tennessee, and Washington State. Literally all over 1235 01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:57,320 Speaker 1: this continent, well the northern western part of it anyway, 1236 01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:01,920 Speaker 1: Well Louisiana is not and it's kind of easy, yeah, 1237 01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:10,880 Speaker 1: South Carolinas on the other coast. Okay, So, according to 1238 01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:14,000 Speaker 1: what I've read, he starts his criminal career in nineteen 1239 01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:18,439 Speaker 1: sixty nine with a murder charge in Texas that didn't stick. 1240 01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:22,519 Speaker 1: And I don't I don't want to try and get 1241 01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:26,840 Speaker 1: into this guy's psyche, but it is said, and I'm 1242 01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:30,320 Speaker 1: going to emphasize the word said, because I don't know 1243 01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:33,559 Speaker 1: that he ever said this himself, but it is said 1244 01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:38,000 Speaker 1: that he believed that quote unquote women he came into 1245 01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:42,840 Speaker 1: contact with who were hitchy, hitch hiking and or hanging 1246 01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:47,720 Speaker 1: out in bars wanted to be sexually assaulted. That's some 1247 01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:50,680 Speaker 1: pretty ironclad reasoning. Yeah, so so this guy, I mean, 1248 01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:55,519 Speaker 1: obviously already you're it's pretty non Nobody likes this guy. 1249 01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:58,160 Speaker 1: He was put into jail for the final time in 1250 01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:04,479 Speaker 1: based on what happened on June when he was with 1251 01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:07,639 Speaker 1: a woman in Newport, Oregon. He was in a hotel. 1252 01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:10,880 Speaker 1: She jumped out of the second story window of the 1253 01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:14,800 Speaker 1: hotel to escape him. She still had a rope tied 1254 01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:17,559 Speaker 1: around her ankle. She got to the police, she told 1255 01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:20,360 Speaker 1: the police what was going on. Obviously she was not 1256 01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:23,839 Speaker 1: there under by her own choice. She was there under dress. 1257 01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:28,960 Speaker 1: And then they arrested him and it took his DNA. 1258 01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:33,719 Speaker 1: He thankfully died in two thousand six. He died in prison, 1259 01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:38,639 Speaker 1: but his DNA has linked him to several cases um 1260 01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:42,920 Speaker 1: all over the country. I know this one's on our list. 1261 01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:46,920 Speaker 1: But there is the high is it the Highway of tears? Yes, 1262 01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,280 Speaker 1: there's the Highway of Tears in Bridge? In Bridge, Columbia, 1263 01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:53,320 Speaker 1: and so he's linked to at least one case up 1264 01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:56,960 Speaker 1: there through d n A. He's also believed to be 1265 01:13:57,080 --> 01:14:00,599 Speaker 1: responsible for the death of four girls in a Newport, 1266 01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:05,559 Speaker 1: Oregon area back in I believe it's the mid eighties, 1267 01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:08,200 Speaker 1: or maybe it's the early nineties. Again, there's so many 1268 01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:09,920 Speaker 1: of these guys, it's hard to keep all of their 1269 01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:14,880 Speaker 1: various crimes straight. He liked to travel. I think he 1270 01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:16,920 Speaker 1: called himself a rambling man. I think that's where I 1271 01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,600 Speaker 1: got that phrase early. He likes to say he was 1272 01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:21,880 Speaker 1: rambling about. But he liked to travel, he liked rape, 1273 01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:25,160 Speaker 1: he liked to kill, he liked to drink. He was 1274 01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:28,040 Speaker 1: all around just a terrible guy. But guy, Yeah, I 1275 01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,479 Speaker 1: gotta hand it to him. Though he knew what he wanted, 1276 01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:32,040 Speaker 1: you know, and he just went out and got it. 1277 01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:34,160 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I've got to hand it to him. 1278 01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:36,160 Speaker 1: I would say, we need to take it away from you. 1279 01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:38,599 Speaker 1: Should have been doing what he was doing, absolutely now. 1280 01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:40,280 Speaker 1: He should have been putting the cage a lot earlier 1281 01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,000 Speaker 1: than he was. He got away with murder for a 1282 01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:46,680 Speaker 1: long time, no pun intended. Literally, yes, absolutely so. The 1283 01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:50,280 Speaker 1: fact he is he is a one that he's actually 1284 01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:53,800 Speaker 1: seems to be gaining some traction in terms of people 1285 01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,599 Speaker 1: knowing about him because of being linked to these things 1286 01:14:56,680 --> 01:14:59,679 Speaker 1: in various places. And I can't say that that he's 1287 01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:03,599 Speaker 1: not responsible for any of these things in Texas. Could 1288 01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:06,479 Speaker 1: very well be, but I can't see him really sticking 1289 01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,240 Speaker 1: around for years. You know, you might have been responsible 1290 01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:12,000 Speaker 1: for some of them, but that's why not the entire series, 1291 01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:15,080 Speaker 1: I don't think. Well, but they have such large gaps 1292 01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:20,760 Speaker 1: in between them. He was doing what he was doing, 1293 01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:22,600 Speaker 1: he just wasn't doing it in the same city and 1294 01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:26,080 Speaker 1: state the whole time. So the path is not connected 1295 01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:29,680 Speaker 1: to connecting the dots. It just never happens. Yeah, it's 1296 01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:33,040 Speaker 1: hard to say. I'd really like to know how exactly 1297 01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:36,720 Speaker 1: how many people Bobby Jack did kill. I think that 1298 01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:38,519 Speaker 1: was just say Bobby Jack's the only one who will know, 1299 01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:41,880 Speaker 1: and you and he obviously wasn't got to talk, but 1300 01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:44,599 Speaker 1: he was in jail for a good ten years before 1301 01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:48,560 Speaker 1: he died, and he never spilled the beans, so no 1302 01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:52,760 Speaker 1: tell him. Um. So our final one is actually it's 1303 01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:55,840 Speaker 1: actually a theory though it's a very simple one, which 1304 01:15:56,040 --> 01:16:00,080 Speaker 1: is that it was all of these guys or it 1305 01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:02,879 Speaker 1: was none of these guys, or it was a single 1306 01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:05,840 Speaker 1: guy like this is this is the general discussion area. 1307 01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:09,240 Speaker 1: We don't normally do that, but I mean, yeah, if 1308 01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:13,760 Speaker 1: you think about it, it's entirely possible that each some 1309 01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:18,280 Speaker 1: of these girls were killed by the same person in 1310 01:16:18,360 --> 01:16:21,720 Speaker 1: the groups or clusters, and that accounts for all of them. 1311 01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:26,679 Speaker 1: It's possible that none of them were killed by these 1312 01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:29,599 Speaker 1: guys except for the ones who we know like Bobby 1313 01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:35,920 Speaker 1: Jack and um Ken whatever his name is. Yeah that yeah, 1314 01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:39,080 Speaker 1: that that we know by d n A. But I mean, 1315 01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:41,320 Speaker 1: maybe all the ones I've talked about so far, they're 1316 01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:44,400 Speaker 1: not maybe all of the other ones. This is the 1317 01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:47,639 Speaker 1: scariest story. The part of the story is maybe they're 1318 01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:51,400 Speaker 1: all the same guy and he's just doing it different 1319 01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:55,640 Speaker 1: all the time, or yeah, or Joe said he's some 1320 01:16:55,720 --> 01:16:57,800 Speaker 1: kind of authority figure, you know what. To be honest 1321 01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:00,160 Speaker 1: with you, it's scarier to think that they're all done 1322 01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:03,840 Speaker 1: by different people. That's even scarier to me that there 1323 01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:09,280 Speaker 1: are that many people, men or women, who during this 1324 01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:14,840 Speaker 1: time period, for whatever reason, kill young women and then 1325 01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,920 Speaker 1: just dump their bodies into swamps. Like That's the scariest 1326 01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:21,479 Speaker 1: theory to me is that there are thirty individual or 1327 01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:24,920 Speaker 1: what I guess twenty five if you did the couple 1328 01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:27,439 Speaker 1: that like, well, but but like Joe said earlier, you know, 1329 01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:29,599 Speaker 1: he looked at another list and I mean that list 1330 01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:34,599 Speaker 1: was fifty girls d something that none of them are 1331 01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:38,000 Speaker 1: really connected, and it probably is more than one person. 1332 01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:40,720 Speaker 1: I think some of the ms varied enough like that, 1333 01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:43,240 Speaker 1: you know, whoever did all the gunshots to the head 1334 01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:47,600 Speaker 1: probably probably the same person. You know, the strangulation is 1335 01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:51,280 Speaker 1: probably maybe somebody else. I would say it's probably like 1336 01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:53,400 Speaker 1: two or three. I like the idea that if it 1337 01:17:53,479 --> 01:17:55,920 Speaker 1: was a cop, you know, he's just like, you know, well, 1338 01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:57,840 Speaker 1: I don't like it in the sense that I enjoy it. 1339 01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:01,360 Speaker 1: Don't you like it? As a google? If there? Well, yeah, 1340 01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:03,600 Speaker 1: so he's he's he's one wants to go do a 1341 01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:06,080 Speaker 1: little killing. So he goes to the evidence room and 1342 01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:09,280 Speaker 1: just grabs a gun there that's been checked into evidence, 1343 01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:11,840 Speaker 1: goes out and murder somebody with it, and that just 1344 01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:14,479 Speaker 1: brings it back and puts it back into evidence. You know, 1345 01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:16,040 Speaker 1: I mean it could have done something. I doubt that 1346 01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:18,040 Speaker 1: he would do that. That's taken a big risk, that's 1347 01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:20,800 Speaker 1: a giant risk. Actually, yeah, it's already in evidence. Yeah, 1348 01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:22,599 Speaker 1: it kind of is. But still, you know, I mean, 1349 01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:24,240 Speaker 1: that's what a great way to get rid of your weapon. 1350 01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:26,720 Speaker 1: Yeh know what you're what you're talking about is I 1351 01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:29,880 Speaker 1: believe it was training day Denzel Washington. They had a 1352 01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:32,439 Speaker 1: gun that was dirty that had been used in the crime, 1353 01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:34,960 Speaker 1: but the cops were hanging onto that would be the 1354 01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:38,160 Speaker 1: gun in your scenario that would get used. It's a 1355 01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:40,240 Speaker 1: gun you've taken off of somebody that you know was 1356 01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:43,240 Speaker 1: used a different crime. That is another way to do it. 1357 01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:45,400 Speaker 1: It's like, if you take it off a criminal, you 1358 01:18:45,479 --> 01:18:47,519 Speaker 1: have lots of opportunities to do that kind of stuff. 1359 01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:50,479 Speaker 1: You know. What's really scary to me, And and there 1360 01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:54,960 Speaker 1: are places like this is that what is it that 1361 01:18:55,479 --> 01:18:59,640 Speaker 1: makes it such a magnet? Like what is it that 1362 01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:04,160 Speaker 1: raws people that are going to commit these acts in 1363 01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:07,400 Speaker 1: such a concentration, Like what is it that they are 1364 01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,439 Speaker 1: looking for they like so much? Well, they live in Texas, 1365 01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,800 Speaker 1: So I'm not just blaming it on Texas for once. 1366 01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:17,400 Speaker 1: I'm not actually blaming Texas. Houston actually is a very 1367 01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:23,080 Speaker 1: very large city and it's very close to Houston. Yeah, away, 1368 01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:26,040 Speaker 1: I mean it's it is the feeder route from Galveston 1369 01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:29,200 Speaker 1: to Houston. But my point is like, Okay, if if 1370 01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:33,639 Speaker 1: it's just proximity to Houston, then why isn't the next 1371 01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:38,400 Speaker 1: fifty miles up the Inner State from Houston littered with 1372 01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:41,080 Speaker 1: bodies in the same way? Do you know what? You 1373 01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:44,400 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying that there are even distributed or 1374 01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:47,280 Speaker 1: even clustered a little bit closer to Houston. It's it's 1375 01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:49,360 Speaker 1: like there's the Highway of Tears and it's sing's like 1376 01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:55,720 Speaker 1: it's it's scary. It's like, what what is it? Why? Well, 1377 01:19:56,200 --> 01:19:59,439 Speaker 1: I mean, it's hot, it's secluded, it's got bogs and 1378 01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:02,400 Speaker 1: body of water that you can a body will decompose 1379 01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:06,519 Speaker 1: quickly in. And I don't know, scary, I don't like it. 1380 01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:08,400 Speaker 1: Are you saying that it's kind of the perfect storm 1381 01:20:08,479 --> 01:20:11,200 Speaker 1: of the place to dispose of? That's what's drawing these 1382 01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:13,360 Speaker 1: guys is that they realized it's a good place. Yeah, 1383 01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:17,240 Speaker 1: I guess, I don't know I would, but I would. Sorry, well, 1384 01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:18,919 Speaker 1: I was gonna say if I was gonna get scientific 1385 01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:23,120 Speaker 1: about it, um, I would look at it to go 1386 01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:30,519 Speaker 1: to Texas Department of Transportation, get the credit Okay, uh, 1387 01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:33,479 Speaker 1: get traffic counts and just see what traffic counts are 1388 01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:37,120 Speaker 1: like along our stretch. It may be that maybe the 1389 01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:40,320 Speaker 1: traffic just five ten miles further north, closer to Houston, 1390 01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:43,559 Speaker 1: is a lot heavier, and that's that in itself makes 1391 01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:46,560 Speaker 1: it a more attractive place. But these girls also disappeared 1392 01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:48,320 Speaker 1: from places that were close to there. They didn't. They 1393 01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:50,519 Speaker 1: weren't disappearing from Houston. They weren't. You know, it's not 1394 01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:53,519 Speaker 1: as though it's a dumping ground for bodies from Houston. 1395 01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:55,920 Speaker 1: Could have been a local too. Yeah, I mean, I 1396 01:20:56,800 --> 01:21:00,559 Speaker 1: don't know. It's it's all scary. There's no no good answer. 1397 01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:03,160 Speaker 1: It's just here answers. I mean, we can, we can 1398 01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:06,519 Speaker 1: step around this for the next ten minutes, asking the 1399 01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:08,920 Speaker 1: same question in different ways and giving the same answer. 1400 01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:11,720 Speaker 1: The whole, in the long and the short of it 1401 01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:16,880 Speaker 1: is it's disturbing. It feels like things have dropped off 1402 01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:20,000 Speaker 1: in the killing fields, in the Texas killing fields. And 1403 01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:22,479 Speaker 1: yet when I look at the list, I mean, like 1404 01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:25,280 Speaker 1: I said, I the list I used was curated by 1405 01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:28,920 Speaker 1: somebody else, and list that was curated by yet another 1406 01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:32,120 Speaker 1: individual has things that are in the twenty tens that 1407 01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:35,240 Speaker 1: are in that region. So I don't know that it's 1408 01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:40,640 Speaker 1: actually ended and I don't know. Well, story short, that 1409 01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:44,360 Speaker 1: area Yeah, yeah, if you live in the Galveston to 1410 01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:47,719 Speaker 1: Houston area, please move. Apparently is not a good area. 1411 01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:51,240 Speaker 1: Well it's um it may be that somebody's still killing 1412 01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:53,599 Speaker 1: with dumping somewhere else, because that area is not as 1413 01:21:53,640 --> 01:21:55,320 Speaker 1: desolate as it used to be. If you look at 1414 01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:57,400 Speaker 1: the area, it's a lot it is subdivision, a lot 1415 01:21:57,439 --> 01:22:00,320 Speaker 1: of subdivision development in the area right near by. I 1416 01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:04,160 Speaker 1: very close, but that actually really confused me. At first. 1417 01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:06,720 Speaker 1: I was like, what, how is this? How is this 1418 01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:09,240 Speaker 1: a great place to dump bodies? And then I know 1419 01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:11,080 Speaker 1: what we've talked about this before. I go on Google 1420 01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:13,960 Speaker 1: Earth and I go back to the satellite footage from 1421 01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:17,280 Speaker 1: ten twenty years ago, and suddenly you realize all the 1422 01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:21,400 Speaker 1: subdivisions just didn't exist, pretty recent stuff. Yeah, and so yeah, 1423 01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:23,719 Speaker 1: that might be one reason the bodies are going somewhere 1424 01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:28,640 Speaker 1: else nowadays. Yeah, okay, any last thoughts for either of you? 1425 01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:32,439 Speaker 1: And I know we've it occurs to me we haven't 1426 01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:35,040 Speaker 1: blamed Tuopy in a while. So you know, do you 1427 01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:37,720 Speaker 1: think it's the Chupacabra. Yeah, I think so, Okay, I 1428 01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:40,680 Speaker 1: think so. All right, Well, I don't think that's it, 1429 01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:43,000 Speaker 1: but we'll let it stand. Okay, we never we never 1430 01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:46,479 Speaker 1: turned away a theory. Okay, okay, Well, I will have 1431 01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:50,920 Speaker 1: links to some of the research for today's show on 1432 01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:55,320 Speaker 1: our website. Website, of course, is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. 1433 01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:58,040 Speaker 1: On that website, you're gonna find a couple of things 1434 01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:00,640 Speaker 1: that are gonna be of interest to you. One is 1435 01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:03,800 Speaker 1: the episode list, so there is a list an extra 1436 01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:05,800 Speaker 1: page or a separate page in our website that has 1437 01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:09,519 Speaker 1: a full list of all episodes that we have put out. 1438 01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:12,200 Speaker 1: On that right hand panel, you're also going to find 1439 01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:17,639 Speaker 1: links to merchandise, shirts, mugs. We haven't yet got plush dolls, 1440 01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:24,080 Speaker 1: but maybe someday of that actual figured out how to 1441 01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:28,280 Speaker 1: make it happen. We are available. This episode is available 1442 01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:31,960 Speaker 1: for streaming or download off the website. It's also available 1443 01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:35,080 Speaker 1: through a whole host of other places. So anywhere that 1444 01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:39,160 Speaker 1: you can stream podcasts or subscribe to podcast we're going 1445 01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:42,320 Speaker 1: to be there. So Google Play or Stitcher, or if 1446 01:23:42,360 --> 01:23:45,960 Speaker 1: you subscribe and download that would be something like iTunes. 1447 01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:49,640 Speaker 1: All of those are available. We're always there. If that 1448 01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:53,800 Speaker 1: avenue allows you to rate the podcast, please do rate 1449 01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:56,240 Speaker 1: and review, because that's other how other people find us. 1450 01:23:56,960 --> 01:23:59,759 Speaker 1: We are in a number of places on the social media. 1451 01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:04,960 Speaker 1: We have the Reddit account, which there's discussions of episodes 1452 01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:09,799 Speaker 1: that it's the reddit subreddit. I cannot like easy words 1453 01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:13,439 Speaker 1: escape my small brain today. I'm getting used to it. 1454 01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:16,519 Speaker 1: Wait till I screw up Twitter? What about the Twitter? Yes, 1455 01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:19,600 Speaker 1: the Twitter, so we have a tweet or wait, no, 1456 01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:23,800 Speaker 1: we do have a Twitter account. It is Thinking Sideways 1457 01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:26,519 Speaker 1: without the G in the middle, where we do put 1458 01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:28,280 Speaker 1: out a lot of different stuff. We're also going to 1459 01:24:28,360 --> 01:24:30,800 Speaker 1: be on Facebook, so we have the Facebook page and 1460 01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:34,160 Speaker 1: the Facebook group, so like the page, joined the group. 1461 01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:36,680 Speaker 1: In the group, you'll be able to talk to other 1462 01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:40,479 Speaker 1: members about past cases and cases that we've never talked about. 1463 01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:42,840 Speaker 1: So a lot of good discussions going on in there. 1464 01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:45,960 Speaker 1: If you want to get a hold of us directly, 1465 01:24:46,160 --> 01:24:48,960 Speaker 1: you're more than welcome to do that. We do have 1466 01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:52,440 Speaker 1: an email address of us. We do It's Thinking Sideways 1467 01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:56,920 Speaker 1: podcast at gmail dot com. So if you have episodes, suggestions, 1468 01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:00,400 Speaker 1: you have questions, you have concerns, you would like to 1469 01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:02,800 Speaker 1: be an expert force because you have a field where 1470 01:25:02,920 --> 01:25:05,600 Speaker 1: you you know that you can share that information with us, 1471 01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:10,640 Speaker 1: send that to us at that email address. That is 1472 01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:12,759 Speaker 1: all of the stuff that I have on my laundry 1473 01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:16,040 Speaker 1: list here today. So I'm going to say good night 1474 01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:18,679 Speaker 1: to everybody. Yeah, sleep well, yeah,