1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,519 Speaker 1: Alson media. 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 2: Welcome back to it could happen here and to episode 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 2: two of Anti vax America. I'm Stephen Monachelly. Last episode 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 2: I explored the ongoing measles outbreak that started in West 5 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 2: Texas and has since spread to several states across the nation. 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 2: A big part of that story is the underlying anti 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 2: vax beliefs that are fueling a decline in vaccination rates 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 2: across the country, and how the leader of our federal 9 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: health bureaucracy, our Hearth K. Junior, has helped seed, spread 10 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 2: and embed those beliefs into policy. But behind all that 11 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: is a deeper history of anti vaccination beliefs in America. 12 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 2: And while it is undoubtedly the case that the COVID 13 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 2: nineteen pandemic brought anti vaccination beliefs to the forefront of 14 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: American politics, opposition to vaccines is not new. It's about 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: as old as the technology itself. 16 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 3: It actually goes back to the founding colonies and even 17 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 3: the nearly eighteen hundreds when you had people kind of peddling 18 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 3: various what they called botanicals as substitutes for mainstream medicine. 19 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 2: That's doctor Peter Hotez. He's a doctor in Houston with 20 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 2: a long and impressive list of credentials. 21 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 3: I'm a pediatrician scientist. I have an MD and PhD, 22 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 3: and I'm a professor of pediatrics and Molecular Virology at 23 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 3: Baylor College of Medicine, where I'm also co director of 24 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 3: the Texas Children's Hospital Center for Vaccine Development, and also 25 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 3: dean of our National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor 26 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 3: College and Medicine. And my interest is a lifelong interest 27 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,279 Speaker 3: in developing new vaccines, particularly vaccines that the big pharma 28 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 3: companies have no interest in making because they're vaccines for 29 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 3: diseases of poverty. We've made a low cost COVID vaccine 30 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 3: that reached technology, reached one hundred million people in India 31 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 3: and Indonesia during the pandemic, and now vaccines for parasitic 32 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 3: diseases that occur only among the world's poor. And that's 33 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 3: a lifelong passion of mine. 34 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 2: The first vaccination was created in seventeen ninety six by 35 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: Edward Jenner, who was able to build on prior methods 36 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: of inoculation, and he was able to create a vaccine 37 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: for smallpox, one of the deadliest viruses in human history, 38 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: within a matter of decades, vaccination had become widespread in 39 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: the Western world. The United Kingdom passed the Vaccination Act 40 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 2: of eighteen forty to provide free vaccinations to the poor, 41 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 2: and then passed another act in eighteen fifty three that 42 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: made it compulsory for infants, and another in eighteen sixty 43 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 2: seven that extended the compulsory vaccination requirement to fourteen and 44 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 2: added penalties for non compliance that could be cumulative over time. 45 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: Resistance to these laws began in eighteen fifty three with 46 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 2: a few riots in towns across England, and this eventually 47 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 2: formalized into the Anti Compulsory Vaccination League, which contributed literature 48 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: likening vaccination to a monster and lobbied the British government 49 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 2: to change the laws. Their efforts actually proved successful, and 50 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 2: a new law was passed in eighteen ninety eight to 51 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 2: remove cumulative penalties and create an exemption for what they 52 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 2: termed conscientious objectors, which is the first time that term 53 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 2: had ever been used in British law. Parallel anti vaccination 54 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,119 Speaker 2: movement made similar strides in the United States, and one 55 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 2: of the leaders of the British anti vaccination movement even 56 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: came to the United States to help co found one 57 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: of the anti vaccination leagues in America. Several states also 58 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: passed compulsory vaccination laws in the United States, spurring the 59 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: American anti vaccination leagues to fight in the legal courts, 60 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 2: in the court of public opinion and the legislatures across 61 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 2: the country, and they successfully repealed compulsory vaccination laws in California, Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Utah, 62 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: West Virginia, and Wisconsin. But opposing compulsory vaccinations was only 63 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 2: one part of the strategy of these early anti vaccine organizations. 64 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: Another key plank, which may sound familiar to those of 65 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: you who follow the news, was the promotion of alternative 66 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 2: remedies such as homeopathy, which were quite popular at the 67 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: time among certain sects of medicine. Now, these movements didn't 68 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 2: neatly fall across political lines in the way that they 69 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: largely do today. Progressive and conservative anti vaccination activists were 70 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 2: tied together by strongly held beliefs in things like quote 71 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 2: unquote medical freedom, sometimes philosophical beliefs around freedom, their spiritual faiths, 72 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: or in some instances, even anti Semitic conspiracy theories. Consider 73 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: Eugene carl During, a philosopher and economists, considered one of 74 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 2: the founding fathers of German anti Semitism, who argued that 75 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 2: Jewish doctors were behind a conspiracy to drum up business 76 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 2: for themselves by promoting vaccination to healthy people. These are 77 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 2: all tropes that live on to this day and that 78 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: someone like do Hotz knows all too well, and because 79 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: of his advocacy of vaccines, he's often been a target 80 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 2: of it. 81 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 3: I'm a scientist, the vaccine scientists, the Jewish vaccine scientists. 82 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 3: So they've got me doing this in secret with George 83 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 3: Soros or one of the rothschilds that I'm doing it 84 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 3: at the World Economic Forum in Davos. Haven't even invited 85 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 3: to Davos. 86 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: While some of the progressive strain of the historic anti 87 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 2: vaccination movement has lived on in the stereotypical hippie naturalist 88 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 2: lifestyle culture that is popular in parts of the Northwest, 89 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: that strain is long and fringe and is kind of 90 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 2: extinct at this point. It had its heyday after the 91 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 2: sixties and seventies, when a lot of alternative therapies and 92 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,119 Speaker 2: medicines were being promoted and embraced. In the West. Most 93 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: of the anti vaxxers of that variety today have largely 94 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 2: been drawn towards more right winging values and have been 95 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 2: subsumed by the sort of politics that defines the larger 96 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: Make America Healthy Again agenda. The way doctor Hotess sees it, 97 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 2: there's a direct line between these old anti vaccine movements 98 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 2: and the modern day MAHA movement, which combines anti vaccine 99 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: beliefs with alternative medicine and libertarian mindsets around health freedom 100 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 2: into a sort of single bundle of sticks. 101 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 3: There's an older thread that goes back to colonial times, 102 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 3: and it has to do with libertarian concepts of what's 103 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 3: sometimes called health freedom medical freedom. Hey, you can't tell 104 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 3: us what to do about our kids, and now we 105 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 3: see that today, right, you know. And this is coming 106 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 3: partly out of the health and wellness and influencer industry. 107 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 3: And that's why you get you know, ivermectin which does 108 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 3: absolutely nothing for covid, or hydroxychloroquine which has done nothing 109 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 3: for covid, or when you heard mister Kennedy talk about 110 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 3: vitamin A or as a preventative, or budesini as steroid 111 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 3: which does nothing, or clarithromycin and antibiotic does nothing. Whatever, 112 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,559 Speaker 3: you know, they can buy in bulk and then sell 113 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 3: at a profit. That's you know, that's a lot of 114 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 3: the wellness and influencer industry. And so what you have 115 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 3: now is that converging thread around that and libertarian politics. 116 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 3: And that's what you saw. I think, after you know, 117 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 3: we started to debunk the false links between vaccines and autism, 118 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 3: they needed a new thing. And this is when you 119 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 3: saw here in Texas, this rise in parents requesting vaccine 120 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 3: exemptions around the banner of health freedom, medical freedom. And 121 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 3: here's where it became really tough to talk about because 122 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 3: it got adopted by the Republican Tea Party in Texas. 123 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 3: And so anti vaccine groups started getting pack money, political 124 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,119 Speaker 3: action committee money to lobby the or educate the state 125 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 3: legislature about health freedom, medical freedom, and even provide money 126 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 3: for candidates to run on anti vaccine platforms. 127 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: But before we explore the contemporary anti vaccination movement further, 128 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 2: we have to turn to history, and before we do that, 129 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: we're obligated to take a quick ad break. Anti vaccine 130 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: movements appeared to be gaining steam in the late eighteen 131 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 2: hundreds and early nineteen hundreds, but their progress largely halted 132 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 2: when a nineteen oh five US Supreme Court ruling upheld 133 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 2: the authority of states to pass and enforce compulsory vaccination laws. 134 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 2: The continued spread of viruses like smallpox, the deadly Spanish 135 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 2: flu pandemic, and the outbreak of World War II all 136 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 2: spurred advancements in vaccination research and programs to ensure widespread vaccination, 137 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 2: and as this science continued to advance, more and more 138 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 2: states began to mandate vaccines for public school attendance, as 139 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 2: did employers for their workers. By nineteen sixty three, twenty 140 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 2: states required children to be vaccinated before going to school, 141 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: and by nineteen eighty every state in the nation had 142 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: a similar law on the books. And as the decades 143 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: went on, the incident's rates of several diseases dramatically plummeted. 144 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 2: By nineteen eighty, smallpox had been eradicated. But along the way, 145 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: there were things done in the name of medical science 146 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: that would undercut the great strides made during that period 147 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 2: of time, things that ultimately showed the seeds for some 148 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: of today's vaccination skepticism. 149 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:30,479 Speaker 4: I think it's important to understand that not all suspicion 150 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 4: regarding medicine and doctors, you know, research that not all 151 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 4: of this resistance is totally irrational, it's based on experience. 152 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 2: That's doctor Michael Phillips, who you may recognize from prior 153 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 2: episodes if it could happen here. He's a historian of race, 154 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 2: eugenics and right wing politics in Texas. 155 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 4: Going back to the time of slavery, enslaved men and 156 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 4: women were often the unwilling, involuntary subjects of medical experiments. 157 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 4: We have, for instance, a a man named maryon Sims, 158 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 4: and they actually put a statue up of him in 159 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 4: Central Park in New York that's been taken down since, 160 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 4: who was credited as the father of gynecology. There was 161 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 4: a problem in that era before the discovery of germ theory, 162 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 4: where whenever women would give birth and there would be 163 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 4: vaginal tears, doctors would often sew up the wounds and 164 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 4: then there'd be an infection and the woman would die 165 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 4: or get seriously ill or infertile. And the infertility and 166 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 4: death of slaves meant a loss of property. So in 167 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 4: slavers we're very concerned about this issue. Maryon Sims at 168 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 4: some point discovers that if you use silver thread silver 169 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 4: sutures when you operate on women who have had these 170 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 4: vaginal terrors that the infection doesn't happen. Now, he wanted 171 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 4: to prove this. He wanted to perfect his technique, so 172 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 4: he did it on enslaved women. 173 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 2: During the COVID nineteen pandemic, Black Americans lagged behind whites 174 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 2: in terms of vaccination rates. According to a systemic literature 175 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: review on the determinants of vaccine hesitancy among Black Americans, 176 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 2: vaccine hasn't seen in Black communities. Is rooted in a 177 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 2: troubling history of unethical medical experiments, and it persists to 178 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 2: this day due to how this group of the population 179 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 2: still experiences discrimination, racism, mistreatment, and overall health iniquity. 180 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 4: The most famous case of the medical abuse of marginalized people, 181 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 4: and it's really entered the folk culture to the point 182 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 4: that when I was teaching American history classes at a 183 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 4: community college, all the students had heard about this particular 184 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 4: atrocity and it was called the Tuskegee experiment. What actually 185 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 4: happened is that African American men who got sexually transmitted 186 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 4: diseases would go to this medical clinic that had been established, 187 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 4: and the doctors with this grant wanted to see what 188 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 4: the trajectory of syphilis would be if it was untreated. 189 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 4: So these were people who already had STDs and they 190 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 4: were given a placebo. They were given basically a sugar 191 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:31,319 Speaker 4: pill rather than penicillin or any other ameliative care. And 192 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 4: the doctor's mission in their minds was that's find out 193 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 4: if syphilis progresses in the same way with African American 194 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 4: men as it does with white men. And so they 195 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 4: wanted to see because they knew that syphilis will untreated 196 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 4: eventually attack the central nervous systimuli, seizures, blindness, any number 197 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 4: of terrible side effects. So they would go to the doctor, 198 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 4: they would get the placebo, and syphilis will go into remission, 199 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 4: and so the patient wouldn't have the benefit of medical 200 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 4: knowledge about how syphilis progresses, would think the pill made 201 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 4: it better. And then they would ask them to return 202 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 4: and the doctor would come and then he'd record the 203 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 4: damage that was happening to the patient's body as the 204 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,239 Speaker 4: disease progressed. And this went on until the nineteen sixties, 205 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 4: and they published results with no professional repercussions, you know, 206 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 4: And one thing they proved is that syphilis attacks black 207 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 4: people the same way it does white people. If you 208 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 4: leave it untreated, the same symptoms developed. The nervous systems 209 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 4: of black and white people are the same. But they 210 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 4: published these results in ACCLAIM Medical Journal, and the backlash 211 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 4: was not immediate. Eventually, you know, it became a scanned 212 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 4: So that really did strike a chord in the Black 213 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 4: community that I think to this day we've seen skepticism 214 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 4: about white medicine. And again there's valid historical reasons. RFK 215 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 4: Junior and the anti vaccination movement have seized on this 216 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 4: particular historical atrocity, so doubt about vaccines among Black Americans. 217 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 4: More generally, Children's Health Defense, the anti vax group, previously 218 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 4: led by RFK Junior, invoked the Tuskegee Syphlist study in 219 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 4: an anti vaccine film called Medical Racism the New Apartheid. 220 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 4: But before we talk a bit more about Children's Health 221 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 4: Defense and the more recent history of the anti vaccination movement, 222 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 4: we've got to take another ad break. Black Americans aren't 223 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 4: the only population group that organizations like Children's Health Defense 224 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 4: have targeted in recent years. For decades, the anti vax 225 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 4: movement has sought to recruit the parents of autistic children 226 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 4: to their cause. By way of the argument that vaccines 227 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 4: directly cause autism. Incidentally, one such parent of an autistic 228 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 4: child is doctor Hotes, whose twenty thirteen book Vaccines did 229 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 4: Not Cause Rachel's Autism directly targets RFK Junior's long held 230 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 4: belief about the link between autism and vaccines. 231 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 3: It actually came about after a year of discussions with 232 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 3: Robert F. Kennedy Junior explaining to him the evidence showing 233 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 3: vaccines don't cause autism, and finally decide to write it 234 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 3: all up in a book. And it's about my daughter. 235 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 3: So you know, I wear two hats as a vaccine scientist, 236 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 3: but also wound up going up against anti vaccine groups 237 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 3: because I do have a daughter with autism and intellectual 238 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 3: disabilities and now she's an adult. And essentially, there's two 239 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 3: major threads in the book other than telling the story 240 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 3: about Rachel and our family, and one is the overwhelming 241 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 3: evidence showing there's no link between vaccines and autism. And 242 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 3: even within that, there's a lot of subcategories because what 243 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 3: happens is anti vaccine groups keeps switching up the concern 244 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 3: about a specific vaccine, and when it gets debunked and 245 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 3: they just switch it up to something else. I call 246 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 3: it biomedical whack a mole or moving the goalposts of 247 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 3: The original assertion came out of the late nineteen nineties 248 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 3: of the false claims that it was the MMR vaccine 249 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 3: the measles, smumps rubella vaccine, and that was actually published 250 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 3: in a biomedical journal called The Lancet in the UK. 251 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 3: The paper was retracted eventually because it was some to 252 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 3: be false, and also the scientific community responded with large 253 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 3: epidemiologic studies showing that kids who got the MMR vaccine 254 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 3: were no more likely to acquire autism than kids who didn't, 255 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 3: and similarly, kids on the autism we're no more likely 256 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 3: to have gotten MMR the kids not on the autism spectrum. 257 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 3: That should have been the end of it. But then 258 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 3: our friend Robert F. Kennedy Junior came on the scene 259 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 3: in two thousand and five and wrote an article in 260 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 3: Rolling Stone magazine claiming, Okay, if it's not MMR, it 261 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 3: must be the thimerosol preservative that's in vaccine, and that 262 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: was also retracted and thoroughly debunked through large epidemiologic studies, 263 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 3: even nonhuman primate studies, and its switched up again to 264 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 3: spacing vaccines too close together. We have to green our 265 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 3: vaccine ecosystem. And you saw celebrities like Jenny McCarthy, your husband, 266 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 3: Jim Carrey walking around in green t shirts. It was 267 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 3: all phony boloni and that was debunked, and then it 268 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 3: was alum in vaccine. So it became this kind of 269 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 3: exhausting exercise, and each time we were able to successfully 270 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 3: refute it. 271 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 2: Founded in two thousand and seven, Children's Health Defense represented 272 00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 2: a formalization of late twentieth century anti vaccination resistance. Unlike 273 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 2: the anti vaccination leagues of the late nineteenth and early 274 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 2: twentieth century, Children's Health Defense pedals dubies cures like homeopathy 275 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: and promotes conspiratorial narratives like the Great Reset, which claims 276 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 2: that billionaire Bill Gates and others have used the COVID 277 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 2: nineteen pandemic as a part of a plan to make 278 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 2: America Marxist. The idea that vaccines cause autism is a 279 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 2: part of a larger claim that vaccines can cause injuries 280 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 2: among those who receive them, and that our understanding of 281 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 2: these injuries is far less than what the science shows. 282 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,719 Speaker 2: This notion gained traction in the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties, 283 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,959 Speaker 2: when controversy erupted regarding the DPT vaccine for diphtheria, pertussis, 284 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 2: and tetanus. A sensational film called DPT Vaccine Roulette drew 285 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 2: an erroneous link between the vaccine and illnesses of some 286 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 2: children who received it. Two parents of children who received 287 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 2: the vaccine formed the National Vaccine Information Center, which exists 288 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 2: to this day and was a major source of COVID 289 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 2: nineteen misinformation. The controversy around the DPT vaccine led to 290 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 2: lawsuits against vaccine manufacturers, leading many of those manufacturers to 291 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 2: stop producing the vaccine by the end of nineteen eighty five. 292 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 2: Because of this, Congress passed the National Childhood Vaccine Injury 293 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 2: Act in nineteen eighty six, establishing a no fault system 294 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 2: to alleviate pressure on vaccine manufacturers and provide an avenue 295 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 2: for victims of a vaccine injury to be compensated. As 296 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 2: doctor Hotez describes it, a lot of this is overblown. Yes, 297 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 2: there are individuals who can have reactions to vaccines that 298 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 2: can cause issues, but the studies around DPT and the 299 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 2: notions that it caused these illnesses that these parents were 300 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 2: concerned about, actually showed that there was no connection. Nevertheless, 301 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 2: it is a reality that some people may face some 302 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 2: sort of complications and we can't dismiss that. But when 303 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 2: we stack it up against the side effects disease and 304 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 2: one of those being death, well it's a pretty easy 305 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 2: comparison to make. 306 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's going to be so important to keep up, 307 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 3: you know, the education about vaccines. And one of the 308 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 3: things that I've done has been preparing these infographics, which 309 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 3: I initially did with a guy named Bill Marsh at 310 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 3: the New York Times. Is this brilliant guy who does 311 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 3: all these cool graphics for the New York Times, and 312 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 3: he had this really interesting idea that we published in 313 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 3: The New York Times in twenty twenty where you create 314 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 3: a box representing ten thousand kids and two boxes aligned 315 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 3: side to side. One box is what happens if ten 316 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 3: thousand kids get saved, for instance, the MMR vaccine versus 317 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 3: the other box ten thousand kids getting measles, and you know, 318 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 3: the ones getting the MMR vaccine. You see these tiny 319 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 3: little pinpricks of very rare side effects like allergic reaction 320 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 3: or febrill seizures one and three thousand, that sort of thing. 321 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 3: So maybe there's a tiny little pinprick representing you know, 322 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 3: three or thirty kids as opposed to measles, which you know, 323 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 3: twenty percent of kids hospitalized in measles deaths. And these 324 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 3: are large red and black boxes. I think those kinds 325 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 3: of things are helpful because I think one of the 326 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 3: problems is the anti vaccine guys. What they'll do is 327 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 3: they will exaggerate the frequency of rare, rare side effects 328 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 3: and in simultaneously downplay the severity of the illness. And 329 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 3: we even heard that before the two deaths. You know, 330 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 3: you heard all this rhetoric all measles is just like 331 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 3: a benign illness. And now we've got two deaths right 332 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 3: here in Texas of nice school age kids that never 333 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 3: had to lose their lives because the parents, you know, 334 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 3: were taken in by the disinformation machine. 335 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 2: The contemporary rise of anti vaccine rhetoric in the US 336 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,959 Speaker 2: can also be tied to the political climate of the 337 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 2: early twenty first century. Figures like Congressman Ron Paul, for example, 338 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 2: have capitalized on the growing sentiment that government should not 339 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 2: interfere with individual medical decisions. With increasing distrust in government, 340 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 2: particularly during the Bush administration, vaccine hesitancy began to align 341 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 2: with broader libertarian and some conservative ideologies. The idea that 342 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 2: the government should not mandate personal medical choices further gain 343 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 2: traction with the election of President Barack Obama in two 344 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 2: thousand and eight, adding fuel to the anti vaccination fire, 345 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 2: and the anti vax movement began to dovetail with the 346 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 2: booming alternative health and wellness industry that excused Western medicine 347 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 2: in favor of natural medicines and holistic approaches, and often 348 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 2: this includes some sort of spiritual element. This convergence is 349 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 2: crystallized in modern figures like Vonnie Hare, also known as 350 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 2: the food Babe, who is a conservative wellness influencer. She's 351 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 2: aligned herself with RFK Junior's Maha agenda and promotes the 352 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 2: standard Goop like fare, but with a right wing edge. 353 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 2: The American food industry, for example, or Big Pharma for example, 354 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 2: are poisoning us. But also you shouldn't get the flu vaccine. 355 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 2: Despite the best efforts of scientists like doctor Hotes to 356 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 2: debunk he claims that motivate the modern anti vaccination movement, 357 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 2: it has only gathered steam in the last few decades. 358 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 2: In recent years, a number of states have passed new 359 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 2: laws allowing for personal exemptions from vaccines, and because of 360 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,479 Speaker 2: doctor Hotes's public involvement, he's had a front row seat 361 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 2: as anti vaccination beliefs have become part and parcel of 362 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 2: Republican politics. 363 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 3: And it was a physician, scientist. The last thing I 364 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,679 Speaker 3: want to talk about is politics, right. I mean, I 365 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 3: feel that every American has a right to their political views. 366 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 3: That's embedded in our history and our constitution. But how 367 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 3: do you say, don't adopt this stuff because it's going 368 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 3: to be so detrimental. But that's what happened with the 369 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 3: formation of anti vaccine groups in the twenty tens in Texas. 370 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 3: He started to get these steep rides in parents questing 371 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,199 Speaker 3: non medical exemptions that their kids could get out of 372 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 3: being vaccinated for school. And it was particularly strong in 373 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 3: the same places where people were refusing COVID vaccine. Years later, 374 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,479 Speaker 3: especially in conservative rural areas of West Texas East Texas. 375 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 3: The vaccination rates continue to be strong in our cities 376 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 3: of the Texas Triangle, Dallas where you are, in Houston 377 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 3: where I am, and San Antonio and Austin. But you know, 378 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 3: in the more conservative rural areas of West Texas, East Texas. 379 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 3: That's where you saw big declines in kids getting vaccines. 380 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 3: And once you go below a certain threshold, roughly below 381 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 3: ninety percent, and bam that you start to see break 382 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 3: through childhood infections. And usually the first one you see 383 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 3: is measles. You can ultimately get all of them, but 384 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 3: measles is the first one you see because it's so 385 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 3: highly transmissible. 386 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 2: But Texas is not alone. 387 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 3: Well. 388 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 2: Immunization rates certainly have limited in Republican states faster than 389 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 2: they have in Democratic states. Immunization rates have fallen in 390 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 2: most states since the pandemic. But there was another event 391 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 2: over half a decade before social distancing and vaccination cards 392 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 2: became household concepts that also informed the Republican Party's embrace 393 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 2: of anti vaccine politics. This was a particular viral outbreak 394 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 2: of measles in California, one that ultimately spurred policy changes 395 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 2: that reverberated across the country. 396 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 3: It started happening in the twenty tens and really ramped 397 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 3: up after. There was a large measles epidemic in California, 398 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 3: of all places, on twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, and the 399 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 3: California legislature shut down vaccine exemptions. They said, Okay, from 400 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 3: now on, you want to send you kids to school, 401 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 3: the kids have to be vaccinated. And I supported that 402 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 3: and it solved the measles problem, but then it produced 403 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 3: this health freedom backlash in states like Texas, also Oklahoma, 404 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 3: and very much a red state phenomenon read being Republican, 405 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 3: blue being a Democrat, and and that's where you saw 406 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 3: these derise in vaccine exemptions. You started getting anti vaccine 407 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 3: groups forming. They were getting pack money, political Action committee money, 408 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 3: and I saw that as really dangerous because now rather 409 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 3: than being sort of small, underfunded groups, they now had 410 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 3: the backing of a major political party and everything that 411 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 3: goes along with it in terms of influence and PAC money, 412 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 3: and this gives them a lot of bandwidth and a 413 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 3: lot of political clout, and it's so self defeating, but 414 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 3: there you are. And so now we're at the point 415 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 3: in Texas where we have over one hundred thousand non 416 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 3: medical exemption requests of various sorts. That's a lot of kids. 417 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 3: And this doesn't say anything about the homeschool kids in Texas. 418 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 3: I'm told that we may have as many as seven 419 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 3: hundred thousand homeschooled kids, but you might want to document that, 420 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 3: and I don't think we have any idea of the 421 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 3: percentage of those kids that are not getting their vaccines 422 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 3: because they're homeschooled. 423 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 2: Private schools in Texas have significantly lower vaccination rates on average, 424 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 2: and the numbers among homeschoolers, while not precisely known, are 425 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 2: likely just as bad, if not worse. Texas just passed 426 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 2: the largest school privatization scheme in the nation, through which 427 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 2: parents will be subsidized by the state to send their 428 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 2: kids to private schools or to homeschool them, meaning vaccination 429 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 2: rates among school as children will likely continue to fall. 430 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: The prevalence of homeschooling among left leaning, crunchy alternative types 431 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 2: has also contributed to the shift towards right wing politics, 432 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 2: as the homeschool movement has deliberately tried to recruit those 433 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 2: families and pushed them towards right wing politics. The complete 434 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 2: partisan politicization of vaccinations has made communicating the risks of 435 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 2: low vaccination rates far more difficult for people like doctor Hotez. 436 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 3: How do you thread that needle and say, look, everybody 437 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 3: has a right to their political views, going there with 438 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 3: you that you're right as an American citizen, but don't 439 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 3: adopt the anti vaccine stuff because it's so dangerous for 440 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 3: your health and the health of your loved ones, the 441 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 3: health of your kids. But it's a tough needle to thread, 442 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 3: and as a result, I, you know, will often, even 443 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 3: though I try to bend over backwards explaining I don't 444 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 3: care about your politics, for their convenient purposes, I'm treated 445 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 3: as a political figure and portrayed as a cartoon villain 446 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 3: or you know, a scientist and white coat plotting nefarious things. 447 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,959 Speaker 3: You know, they have this crazy concept out there they 448 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 3: call plandemic now that it's not a pandemic, it's a 449 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 3: plandemic that somehow I've been involved with, or that I'm 450 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 3: profiting from vaccines and secretly working for pharma companies even 451 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 3: though it's the opposite, right, I make load cost vaccines 452 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 3: that actually showed me could bypass the big pharma companies. 453 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,959 Speaker 3: And and some of it gets outright absurd. I mean, 454 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 3: there's this whole thread on the Internet that says that 455 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 3: I'm not even a real person, that I'm I'm actually 456 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 3: being played by Jack Black, and that he's paid for 457 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 3: by the CIA, And it's got these amazing you know 458 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 3: forensic analysis of close ups of my teeth with Jack 459 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,719 Speaker 3: Black's teeth and all this profiles and things. I mean, 460 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 3: the funny thing is the said thing is the crazier 461 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 3: the conspiracy, the faster it seems to travel. 462 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 2: These sorts of conspiracy theories would be laughable if they 463 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 2: did not have deadly consequences, And unfortunately, this sort of 464 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 2: public health focused conspiracism is not new. In the late 465 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 2: eighteen hundred, several Canadian doctors, such as Alexander Milton Ross, 466 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 2: insisted that vaccines were the true danger, not smallpox. Others 467 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 2: argued that British doctors were promoting vaccinations to poison the 468 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 2: French Canadian community due to nationalistic conflicts. If you were 469 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 2: not in a coma during the COVID nineteen pandemic, these 470 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: ideas should sound familiar. And in nineteen twenty, at the 471 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 2: tail end of the deadly Spanish flu pandemic that killed 472 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 2: somewhere between seventeen and fifty million people worldwide, the Commissioner 473 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 2: of Public Health in Seattle, doctor Hiram Reid, was dealing 474 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 2: with the nasty outbreak of smallpox. The year prior. The 475 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 2: Washington State legislature, facing pressure from anti vaccination activists allowed 476 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 2: for students to avoid vaccination requirements if their parents objected, 477 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 2: effectively ending mandatory vaccination. Hiram, frustrated with the ongoing resistance 478 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 2: to his attempts to vaccinate the public in Seattle, vented 479 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 2: in a nineteen twenty annual health report quote the number 480 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 2: of unvaccinated persons in this city is large, the city 481 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 2: being a hotbed for anti vaccination, Christian Science, and various 482 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 2: anti medical cults, and it is difficult to enforce vaccination 483 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 2: rewrote for those who are unfamiliar. Christian Science is an 484 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 2: offshoot of Christianity that was formed in eighteen seventy nine 485 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 2: in New England and by nineteen thirty six was the 486 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 2: fastest growing religion in the nation. Christian scientists typically avoid 487 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 2: medical care and rely instead on their belief in the 488 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 2: healing power of prayer. On the next episode of Anti 489 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 2: Vacs America, I'll explore the intersection of conservative Christianity, its 490 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 2: belief in spiritual healing miracles, anti vaccination beliefs, and vaccination hesitancy. 491 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 2: We'll talk about how a very influential strain of conservative 492 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 2: Christianity that is highly political and has tied itself with 493 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 2: Donald Trump is also influencing people's attitudes about vaccination. Until then, 494 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 2: I'm Stephen Mamaicelli and this is anti vaxx America. For 495 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 2: Cool Zone Media, Thanks for listening. 496 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 497 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 498 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 499 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 500 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed directly 501 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.