1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio Newshard. 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: Where innovation, money and power. Collie in Silicon Valley, n Beyond. 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed loved Love. 4 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 3: We are live from New York. This is Bloomberg Technology. 5 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 4: Coming up, Apple CEO Tim Cook visit China and undines 6 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 4: its importance to. 7 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 3: The tech company. 8 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 4: Will discuss the future US China relations and supply chains. 9 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 4: Plus we'll look at what's behind Tesla's post election stock surge. 10 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 3: Is it fundamentals, is it hype? 11 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 4: And Bitcoin's rally stools out after nearly reaching one hundred 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 4: thousand dollars. 13 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 3: We'll discussed on Kristen Smith from Blockchain Association, but first. 14 00:00:57,680 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 4: Let's get a little bit more on today's market moves 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 4: when you fold in the geopolitical contentions here, we're still 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 4: on what happens between US and China, and we still 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 4: tried to digest what's happened in terms of earnings from 18 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,559 Speaker 4: the Chinese tech johnts Isabelle Lee joins us now and Isabelle, 19 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 4: you've really been going global for us, and I want 20 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 4: to take a moment to say how awful Chinese earnings 21 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 4: have been for the big tech companies, and we get 22 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 4: a little bit of a reprieven training today, but we 23 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 4: were entering a bear market at the end. 24 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 3: Of last week. 25 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 5: Definitely, it was definitely underwhelming for all of the Chinese 26 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 5: tech companies, and it's not a surprise to allude to 27 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 5: the geopolitical and economic uncertainties and whether or not these 28 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 5: companies can win investors back large hinges on Beijing's stimulus 29 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 5: splits and that has really since fizzled out. Just over 30 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 5: the past week, we have the five biggest tech companies 31 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 5: erase forty one billion dollars in market cap. The MSCAI 32 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 5: China indexed slits its lowest in September, and call after call, 33 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 5: a lot of these executives are really just saying how 34 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 5: uneven the economy is and how underwhelming their business is, 35 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 5: and how most offered cautious optimism. But they also ask 36 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 5: investors for patients. We have PDD for example, they walk 37 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 5: around discussing their disappointing earnings. Ten Cent that it promised 38 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 5: new blockbusters, even Baidu, which is the front runner in 39 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 5: the AI development, failed to wow. And adding to this 40 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 5: is of course Donald Trump win and what that would 41 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 5: mean for China. And lastly we have Morgan Stanley cutting 42 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 5: Chinese equities too slight underweight and Golden sax lowing. It's 43 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 5: MSCA Chinese gauge ratings, so it's really underscores how cautious 44 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 5: and how shaky Chinese equities are on for. 45 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 4: Now, it's really with the roundup of concerns with China. Meanwhile, 46 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 4: I commit that economic concern or a number of top 47 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,399 Speaker 4: executives of global firms traveling to China participating in discussions 48 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 4: with the country's premiere. Apple CEO, Tim Cook was one 49 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 4: of the most notable names. Just to take a listen 50 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 4: to what he's had to say. 51 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: And I'm thrilled to be here and I'm so proud 52 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: that Apple has an exhibit here with our partners. 53 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 3: So how do you value your partners in China? 54 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: Oh, I value them very highly. We could not do 55 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: what we do without them. 56 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 4: Dan Willman's with us joining us for more on will 57 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 4: remind us why China is so integral to Apple. 58 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 6: China is a huge, hugely important to Apple supply chain, 59 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 6: and according to our reporting, it is Apple's second largest 60 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 6: market behind the US, where it is currently struggling. According 61 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 6: to many of our reports over this past year against 62 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 6: domestic Chinese domestics smartphone makers. So on those two counts 63 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 6: extremely important to Apple. 64 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 4: Meanwhile, they've got to try and front run what other 65 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 4: tariffs look like, what the future and under a Trump 66 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 4: administration can look like. And actually, you've done great reporting 67 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 4: across the entire team that they have interesting relations across Asia. 68 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 4: More broadly somewhere they have to invest more to earn 69 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 4: the right to sell their products in China, where they 70 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 4: have to earn the right to continue to build so much. 71 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 6: The absolutely in a real study of contrast, today, Bloomberg 72 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 6: also had a report out that Indonesia is really pushing 73 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 6: back on lifting its iPhone sixteen sales ban, really demanding 74 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 6: more investment from Apple, saying, hey, you have invested so 75 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 6: much in manufacturing in Vietnam, which is a smaller market 76 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 6: for you in terms of iPhone sales, why not invest 77 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 6: more in Indonesia, which is the largest Southeast Southeast Asian economy. 78 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 6: So the two stories today stood as a real contrast 79 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 6: for me, this push from Indonesian leaders versus just this 80 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 6: report out of China that really highlighted how vulnerable Apple's 81 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 6: business is in the region. 82 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 4: Dana we love the context Dane woman for all things Apple. 83 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 4: Let's talk about the other juggernaut that is in video. 84 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 4: A big exposure to China too, of course in terms 85 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 4: of selling into that market. The CEO, Jensen Wang, was 86 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 4: just in Hong Kong over the weekend, where he received 87 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 4: an honorary doctorate in engineering from the Hong Kong University 88 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 4: of Science and Technology. He emphasized in Vidia's ties to 89 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 4: the region and weighed in on the potential impact of 90 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 4: the incoming US administration. 91 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 3: Just take a listen. 92 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 7: I don't know what's going to happen with the new administration, 93 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 7: but whatever happens, we'll balance multaneously compliance with laws and policies, 94 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 7: continue to advance our technology and support and serve customers 95 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 7: all over the world. 96 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 2: Will continue to do that, and we'll be able to 97 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: do that. 98 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 7: Just fine. 99 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 4: Let's keep this conversation going from an investor perspective. Scott Ladin, 100 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 4: a CEI of Horizon Investments. Does it give you pause 101 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 4: as you try to understand what on earth US China 102 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 4: relations look like next year and how it impacts your 103 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 4: investments in tech? 104 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it has to. 105 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 8: I mean you have to take account of what this 106 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 8: administration says they're going to do to China, especially on 107 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 8: the tech front, and and frankly, what China's retaliation might 108 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 8: look like. You know, we think actually the US is 109 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 8: probably a little bit of a stronger position than they 110 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 8: were in twenty eighteen, the last time these two powers 111 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 8: really confronted, because China is frankly in the throes of 112 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 8: a balance yout recession right now, so they probably don't 113 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 8: have quite as much maneuverability on the on the stimulus side. 114 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 8: But at the end of the day, you know, like 115 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 8: taking account of how these two are going to interact 116 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 8: amongst each other, kind have a lot to do with 117 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 8: where we put our money in. 118 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,799 Speaker 4: Okay, So would you ever, even at these pretty beaten 119 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 4: up levels, be thinking about the Chinese technology giant still 120 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 4: being an area to be a creative in the future. 121 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,119 Speaker 8: Look for once for me twice on the Chinese stimulus stuff, 122 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 8: it's not you know, you can't you can't predict what 123 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 8: the what the Chinese administration or the Chinese Communist Party 124 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 8: is going to do with respect to fiscal stimulus, which 125 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 8: is really what the doctor ordered for that economy. And 126 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 8: without that fiscal stimulus, it's really tough to get out 127 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 8: of these balance sheet recessions where demand is just lacking. 128 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 8: And so you know, if we do get signs, not signs, 129 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 8: we get announcements that the China is going to engage 130 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 8: in large scale fiscal stimulus, then yes, you have to 131 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 8: get on board the Chinese tech stocks because you know 132 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 8: they because then the consumer can come back alive again 133 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 8: in China and we can really get get going. But 134 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 8: without that, it's you just you can't predict policy in China. 135 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 8: So you know, we just have to take a wait 136 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 8: and see approach. 137 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 4: What about US names that have significant exposure to China 138 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 4: and perhaps haven't managed to show that they've got such 139 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 4: strong demand globally that it doesn't matter. 140 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 8: You know, it's gonna hurt them, you know, any but 141 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 8: this is not you know, there's not new news. I mean, 142 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 8: everybody knows with the Trump win that China's is going 143 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 8: to be sort of enemy list number one. And so 144 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 8: you know that these these companies have been planning for 145 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 8: a while the potentiality of a Trump win. 146 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: They're going to have answers to it. 147 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 8: But you know, just just because you know, this is 148 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 8: you know, like I said earlier, this is not new news, well, let's. 149 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 4: Think about what's not new news when it comes to 150 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 4: a player like in video. Currently, in Video is one 151 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 4: the worst points contributor to the NASDAC. Today we're falling 152 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 4: significantly another three percent, which is a lot of market 153 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 4: cap erosion for Is this as big as this? 154 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 3: Is that more. 155 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 4: About just profit taking? Is that about exposure China? Is 156 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 4: it about exposure to too few clients like Microsoft, like 157 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 4: Amazon and like Alphabet. 158 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 8: Yeah, look, it's probably a little bit of all those things, Caroline. 159 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 8: It's it's you know, when you when you have one 160 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 8: of your largest clients, you know, a company like Amazon 161 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 8: coming out and saying, look, we might start competing with you, 162 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 8: we might get in this game. Even though they've they've 163 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 8: been in the game for a while, but now they're 164 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 8: really ramping up efforts. You know, this is obviously a 165 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 8: very lucrative space. You know, margins of seventy five eighty 166 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 8: percent on businesses like this, So you know, it makes 167 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 8: a lot of sense for it for other large tech 168 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 8: companies to come in, to come in and try to 169 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 8: challenge in Video's place in the market. These things will 170 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 8: take some time, but but you know, those things will 171 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 8: have to weigh on the on the stock price at 172 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:19,239 Speaker 8: some point. 173 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 3: So what do you do, Scott? Do you keep the 174 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 3: exposure you have to? It feels a fool Zerran to 175 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 3: have a bet. Again, it's big tech in some way. 176 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 8: Oh but let me be clear, I'm not I'm not 177 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 8: advocating it anyway to bet against they bet against big tech. 178 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 8: I mean, you know, we are we are in the 179 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 8: in the mid to late nineties sort of cycle. AI 180 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 8: is him as my kids would say, you know that, 181 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 8: you know so this this is this is definitely a 182 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 8: training guy to get on, but the train like that 183 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 8: they have to get on in a broadening sense. You know, 184 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 8: this is not just in VideA anymore. This is not 185 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 8: the twenty twenty three AI trade. Just so you know, 186 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 8: the broadening out of this team into other users, like 187 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 8: how are companies going to use. 188 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: AI in the future, you know what? 189 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 8: Other what other you know, suppliers are going to come online, 190 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 8: like like possibly Amazon in the chip space. So you know, 191 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 8: playing that broadening out theme inside of AI is rankly 192 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 8: We're spending quite a lot of time trying to figure 193 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 8: that out here at Horizon, and it's something that I 194 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 8: think a lot of investors are going to have to, 195 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 8: but it is you know, you know, you do not 196 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 8: want to be short tech. You do not want to 197 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 8: be short at these this AI theme this time. To 198 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 8: get on board, you have to understand how to play 199 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 8: it for twenty twenty five, not for twenty twenty three. 200 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 3: I know you don't want to share the secret source. 201 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 3: But as you're. 202 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 4: Doing that work, where have been the rich pickings so far? 203 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 3: We've heard often. 204 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 4: It's about the energy play, or it's about the applications 205 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 4: within healthcare, But where have you found some of the 206 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 4: outsized potential here? 207 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 2: You're you're picking on a couple of them. Look at mean, 208 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 2: you know, at some point you've got to get down 209 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 2: to the users. So you know, if you know, if you. 210 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 8: Think about how how the tech trade played out in 211 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 8: the middle late nineties, you know, first there's the people 212 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 8: that made the tech and made things possible. But really, 213 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 8: you know, the main gains where to we had by 214 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 8: people that use the technology, that use the internet, that 215 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 8: use PCs in order to enhance productivity in their businesses. 216 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 8: So you know that, you know, getting onto that, getting 217 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 8: onto that type of play is we're spending quite a 218 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 8: lot of time trying to figure out, like you know what. 219 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: You know you mentioned healthcare, which. 220 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 8: Biotech companies are going to figure this out in order 221 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 8: to do advanced drug development? You know which which major 222 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 8: farmers are going to figure this out for the same 223 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 8: type type of reason. You know what kind of industrial 224 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 8: companies are going to figure out logistics improvements based on 225 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 8: some AI logical that they're building in their processes. And 226 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 8: so those types of questions are the things we're trying 227 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 8: to answer right now. You know, I do think we're 228 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 8: second or thirty any of this stuff. It's probably a 229 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 8: little early to get really on board with the users, 230 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 8: but it is. 231 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 2: You know, you have to start doing the work right now. 232 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 4: Keep going on when you've done the work, and as 233 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 4: you continue down at Scott Lander, his CIO of Horizon Investments, 234 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 4: we really appreciate your time today. Meanwhile, coming up, we've 235 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 4: got so much more on some of the stocks that 236 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 4: have outperformed. Tesla for example, absolutely mean like stock Search, 237 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 4: is it needing Wall Street feeling a bit wary at 238 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 4: these levels. 239 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 3: We'll bring you the details from the latest UBS. 240 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 4: Note, as we're up another four percent over the last 241 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 4: five days, let's just focus in in one of well 242 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 4: key driver in the market, today is Tesla. 243 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 3: We want to look at it over the last month. 244 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 4: Shares as you see thirty one percent in the last 245 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 4: month because well, of course, all surrounding the new administration 246 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 4: that's likely to come in twenty twenty five. BBS analysts 247 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 4: are cautioning that this post election surge is more to 248 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 4: do with marketing xuberants and actual improvements in the fundamentals 249 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 4: of the business. 250 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 3: Who knows Cretridel. 251 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 4: Has more And we've been trying to understand crucially whether 252 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 4: this relationship personal one really between Elon Musk and Trump 253 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 4: and the future administration will bear dividends for the business 254 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 4: of Tesla, And you've been trying to measure it up, 255 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 4: so has UBS. 256 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. 257 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 9: I think UBS's report is very interesting today because they 258 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 9: will sort of grant this idea that narrative wise, it 259 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 9: makes a lot of sense that you would see a 260 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 9: run up in the stock given how close Elon Musk 261 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 9: has placed himself to Donald Trump. But they really sort 262 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 9: of pick apart some of the reasons you know, commonly 263 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 9: cited for this run up in the last few weeks. 264 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 9: You know, you take a look at taking away ev 265 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 9: tax credits in the US, for example, maybe Tesla is 266 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 9: able to handle that better than some of its competitors 267 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 9: that aren't making money on EV's but it's still not 268 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 9: a positive for EV demand as a whole, and so 269 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 9: UBS is a bit bearish on that front. And when 270 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 9: you look at autonomous vehicle policy as well, you don't 271 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 9: have an actual robotaxi at Tesla, whereas you know, Weimo 272 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 9: is out with a robotaxi now, and you know that 273 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 9: was that company was just valued at about forty five billions. 274 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 9: So does it really make sense to put, you know, 275 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 9: potentially one hundreds of billions of dollars on a Tesla 276 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 9: autonomous vehicle valuation given its it's sort of closest comp 277 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 9: Weimo is valued it much less than that. 278 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 3: The problem is. 279 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 4: The price target for the next twelve months on average 280 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 4: from the analyst that rate it is well below where 281 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 4: we're currently trading two and forty four, whereas the last 282 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 4: price is currently three hundred and fifty four. We've seen 283 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 4: relative strength indexes of Tesla just show that we are 284 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 4: over bought territory, and yet we don't seem to be 285 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 4: able to actually against the stock. 286 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 287 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 9: I think that's another point that UBS makes interestingly today. 288 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 9: Is just that we've seen this before. We've seen that 289 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 9: this is sort of an ultimate momentum stock that when 290 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 9: it rises, it really rises. 291 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 2: When it falls, it really falls. 292 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 9: And I guess that's sort of befitting of Musk, right, 293 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 9: he doesn't do anything halfway. But you really see in 294 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 9: terms of you know, equities that are are commonly you know, 295 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 9: traded with with options that you know really sort of 296 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 9: lead to these outsized moves. I think Tesla is you know, 297 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 9: sort of exhibit A in terms of stocks that you know, 298 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 9: because of the options activity, you tend to see you know, 299 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 9: sustained and really dramatic moves in the stock one where 300 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 9: or the other when you have a a sort of 301 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 9: reason for the stock to you know, narrative wise, you know, 302 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 9: go in one direction or the next. 303 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 4: We'll see whether the meme trading can continue. We're currently 304 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 4: up on the day at least. Created Al always great 305 00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 4: to check in with you. 306 00:13:58,679 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 3: Meanwhile, let's take. 307 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 4: A look at Rocket Lab shares absolutely surging as well 308 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 4: after the satellite company said it successfully launched IS fifty 309 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 4: sixth electron missile LUMEGS. Bruce Einhorn joins US. Now we're 310 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 4: up three percent there's other narratives around the business today 311 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 4: in terms of the chip sacked, but focus on this launch. 312 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 4: We had one out of New Zealand very swiftly after 313 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 4: one out of the United States. 314 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 10: Yes, so there are two launches. The launch in the 315 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 10: United States is for a customer that the rocket Lab 316 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 10: has not yet disclosed. In the past, rocket Lab has 317 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 10: done launches from Virginia for US government customers. The launch 318 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 10: in New Zealand was for French startup. This was part 319 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 10: of a multiple launch contract that rocket Lab. 320 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 2: Has with them. 321 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 10: So altogether this makes fourteen launches that rocket Lab has 322 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 10: had this year, which beats their record which was ten 323 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 10: last year. 324 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 2: Let's put this in context. 325 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 10: Impressive for rocket Lab, but remember that SpaceX has had 326 00:14:58,320 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 10: more than one hundred launches this year. 327 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 4: They are very much still and also run at the moment, 328 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 4: but they're clearly garnering some momentum here. What's interesting is 329 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 4: they're also getting money from the US government when it 330 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 4: comes to chips. Where else in the manufacturing area are 331 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 4: they and why are they getting such money from the 332 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 4: Commerce Department. 333 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 10: So this is the final signing of a contract from 334 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 10: the Department of Commerce related to the Chips Act. Twenty 335 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 10: three point nine million dollars. The company had announced a 336 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 10: preliminary deal for this before, so this is not a surprise. 337 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 2: People knew this was coming. 338 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 10: Rocket Lab has a subsidiary in New Mexico that makes 339 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 10: solar cells. It's one of the only companies I believe 340 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 10: they are only two in the United States that make 341 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 10: these components. And so rocket Lab has now gotten funding 342 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 10: from Commerce Department to promote that to build more of those. 343 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 10: So just giving another lift to this stock. Interesting what 344 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 10: you were talking about with craigirl about optimism about post election. 345 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 10: Rocket Lab is one company among several space companies also 346 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 10: benefiting from this bullishness after Trump's reelection that the new 347 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 10: administration will have policies that will be favorable to the sector. 348 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 4: Almost twelve billion dollars market capitalization not quite up to 349 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 4: the two hundred and fifty billion dollar market evaluation we 350 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 4: understand for the privately held SpaceX At the moment, Bruce 351 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 4: Einhorn will need to get the context. 352 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 3: The French government. 353 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 4: Suffering to buy the advanced computing assets. 354 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 3: From ATOS for as much as six hundred and fifty. 355 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 4: Three million dollars after an earlier offer from the state expired. 356 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 4: Now the offer includes the company's AI business as well 357 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 4: as its supercomputers and Merg's Benoir Badillo is here with 358 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 4: more And what is better about this dale or is 359 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 4: it just different because this is all about trying to 360 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 4: bail out what is a company that's under a lot 361 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 4: of duress from a debt perspective. 362 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 2: Exactly. 363 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 11: Yeah, it's important for Athos at this stage to divest 364 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 11: it has these activities. The creditors who are taking over 365 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 11: the company will win liquidity out of it. And most importantly, 366 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 11: the French state has wanted to ensure that these strategic 367 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,959 Speaker 11: assets remain within French control and are sort of safe. 368 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 11: These are important assets because the supercomputers we're talking about 369 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 11: are used to do the dissimulations of nuclear activities for example, 370 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 11: that are very key to friends and the French government. 371 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 2: So this deal is sort of narrower. 372 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 11: It's just on the supercomputers part of Athos, which called 373 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 11: build Essay, and this leaves on the sides other assets 374 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 11: that are in cyber security or what's called mission critical systems. 375 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 11: So these are said are going to be sort of 376 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 11: up for auctions and other French companies again are going 377 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 11: to make bids for these activities. 378 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 3: So that's the kicker here. 379 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 4: These all want to remain in local hands in some way. 380 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 3: Some deals have worked world. 381 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 4: Grade unit we sold to a French engineering company, but 382 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 4: others have unraveled, like the one with Talas. Is it 383 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 4: just trying to find the right price point here. 384 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 11: Yes, there's a bit of that. The creditors want a 385 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 11: good price point for it. That the French defense companies 386 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 11: bidding for these assets will certainly want to have a 387 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 11: good price as well. We know that Talis, an important 388 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 11: French defense company, is interested by what's called mission critical 389 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 11: assets here. They said in the past they could be interested, 390 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 11: they have not made a bid yet. It was probably 391 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 11: complicated for these companies to do a deal with the 392 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 11: French states. So now the state has done the deal 393 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 11: in the supercomputers, and other deals could be done. But 394 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 11: you're right, what's at stake here is really used as 395 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 11: strategic assets and the sovereignty of French technology that's critical 396 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 11: for the civilian industry and also for a lot of 397 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 11: military use. So while this company has been unraveling, it's 398 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 11: really the stake of these really sovereign assets that's at 399 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 11: steak now. 400 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 4: Meanwhile, it's bonds trading at sense on the Euro. Significant 401 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,959 Speaker 4: pressure there still Benman Bartolo on that key French asset. 402 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 3: We thank you very much. Meanwhile, time for talking tech now. 403 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 4: A first up online verification company, id dot me as 404 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 4: close to tender offer that value the business at one 405 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 4: point eight billion dollars, according to a source, REMIT Capital, 406 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 4: a new investor in the company, led the transaction with 407 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 4: existing investors Viking Global Investors and Capital G anticipating plus 408 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 4: insta three sixty. It's a Chinese rival to GoPro, with 409 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,479 Speaker 4: backers including IDG. Capital is considering an IPO in Hong 410 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 4: Kong after plans for a listing in mainland China stalled, 411 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 4: according to sources who say the company could seek evaluation 412 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 4: of at least two point one million dollars in a 413 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 4: share sale. And Sony is in the early stages of 414 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 4: developing a portable console there all play its PlayStation five 415 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 4: games on the move. According to sources who paid say 416 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 4: that the product is meant to expand Sony's reach and 417 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 4: go head to head a Nintendo in the portable gaming market. 418 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 4: Welcome back to Bloemberg Technology. I'm Caroline Hyde in New York. 419 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 4: Yet more news around companies buying adding to the balance 420 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 4: sheet MicroStrategy one of them. Let's get to it with 421 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 4: Kristin Smith, SEO of the Blockchain Association, who can really 422 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 4: discuss the future more broadly of how we're going to 423 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 4: be thinking about where we go in terms of overseeing 424 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 4: of bitcoin and crypto more generally, how we're going to 425 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 4: see more laws made. 426 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 3: Of course, we've had. 427 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 4: The news that the SEC share Gary Gensler, is announced 428 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 4: that he's going to be stepping down from his seat 429 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 4: come January. So, Kristian, were you surprised by the news 430 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,120 Speaker 4: that he's front running in. 431 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 12: No, I wasn't surprised by the news. It's very common 432 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 12: when there is a change of power for the chair 433 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 12: of the SEC to step down at the end of 434 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 12: the Congress and the end of the presidential term before 435 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 12: the inauguration, and so, you know, we're certainly very excited 436 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 12: to see him leave. It has been a really difficult 437 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 12: couple of years for the industry. We felt like we've 438 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 12: been boxed in the corner with his regulation by enforcement approach. 439 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 12: But right now we're really focused on trying to figure out, 440 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 12: you know, how can we move forward as an industry 441 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 12: how can we reset our relationship with government. And we're 442 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 12: very excited to get new people into these key positions 443 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 12: and work with the newly elected Congress when they come 444 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 12: to power next year, because I think we have a 445 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,400 Speaker 12: real opportunity to get a regulatory frameworkting place that will 446 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 12: that will be lasting and appropriate for the industry for 447 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 12: decades to come. 448 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 4: Okay, can you talk to us about the names, for example, 449 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 4: the sec acclony, pondering, folly, chump for example. 450 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 3: These will the names that you think won't be regulation 451 00:21:59,560 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 3: bond form. 452 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 12: Yeah, and I think that there are a couple of 453 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 12: great names that have been floating around for the chair 454 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 12: of the SEC. I think from the standpoint of the 455 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 12: Blockchain Association and the industry, what we want to see 456 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 12: is somebody in there who has experience and deep understanding 457 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 12: of crypto. I think there are going to be many 458 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 12: challenges of the SEC chair faces, but figuring out the 459 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 12: right regulatory environment for digital assets is going to be 460 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 12: one of those things. And so we don't care who 461 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 12: it is as long as it is somebody who has 462 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 12: a deep understanding and who's willing to have an open 463 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 12: dialogue with the industry. 464 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 4: There's been a discussion about having the first of a 465 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 4: crypto post in the White House. Is that necessary at 466 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 4: this moment when you have a relatively pro Congress, more procrypto. 467 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 3: Than we've ever seen before. 468 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 4: Add indeed, a new SEC check, I think it. 469 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 12: Would certainly be a welcome position. I mean, make no mistake. 470 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 12: What we needed was a strong Treasury Secretary pick, and 471 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 12: I think we got that with Scott Bessett. We also 472 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 12: need strong choices for the SEC and the CFTC because 473 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 12: without those three positions, a CRYPTOSR isn't going to be 474 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 12: able to get much done. But if you look at 475 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 12: the many different issues, and this is something that we 476 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 12: touched on our letter to President Trump on last week, 477 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 12: they cross many different agencies. 478 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 8: Right. 479 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 12: We need to deal with the debanking issues with the 480 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 12: prudential bank regulators. We need to deal with the market 481 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 12: regulatory issues with the SEC and the CFTC. We need 482 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 12: Congress to step in and pass a new law. And 483 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 12: I think having a CRYPTOSAR position at the White House 484 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 12: would help facilitate those conversations and make sure that we're getting. 485 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 3: All the pieces done. 486 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 12: Because there are a lot of different different parts that 487 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 12: need to be addressed. They occur across many different agencies, 488 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 12: and so yes, we would welcome someone in that role, 489 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,479 Speaker 12: but not at the expense of getting somebody strong in 490 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 12: at the SEC and the CFTC. 491 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 4: Okay, So, if it's not a mutually exclusive thing, who 492 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 4: would you want to see as a ZAW level? How 493 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 4: deep within active duty do you want them to be 494 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 4: or do you want them to be perhaps a step 495 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 4: remove in terms of advisory. 496 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 12: Well, I think there are really two qualifications you want 497 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 12: from that role. One is you want somebody who understands 498 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 12: the crypto industry. 499 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 3: It is very nuanced. 500 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 12: There are a lot of different pieces, and you need 501 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 12: somebody who can understand and navigate the people and the 502 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 12: personalities of the industry. I also think, though, you need 503 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 12: somebody that knows how to navigate government, because if you 504 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 12: have someone who shows up from industry but doesn't understand 505 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 12: the nuances in the history of their relationships, you know, 506 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 12: it would be difficult. And so I think that's going 507 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 12: to be a very tough position to find. But I 508 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 12: think there are a lot of people in the industry 509 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 12: that are willing to step up and step in and 510 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 12: do that kind of role. 511 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 4: For people who aren't day to day working in crypto. 512 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 4: Can you explain to them why they would want to 513 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 4: see an SEC chair so deeply in the weeds of 514 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 4: understanding crypto when the SEC also has to oversee the 515 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 4: trillions in passive investment, the understanding of implications of AI 516 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 4: on ETF investment, and ultimately when Crypto remains all about 517 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 4: the same size as Nvidia's market cap. 518 00:24:59,160 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 13: Yeah, well, I. 519 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 3: Think that this is something. 520 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 12: You're going to be someone who can walk and choo 521 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 12: gum at the same time, right. I think if you 522 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 12: look at Crypto, yes, it's just approaching a three trillion 523 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 12: dollar market cap, but this is still the early days. 524 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 12: This is going to be the foundation of financial services, 525 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 12: of our Internet, of so many things going forward that 526 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 12: we really want to get the regulatory framework right now 527 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 12: for when this is a ten to twenty thirty trillion 528 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,160 Speaker 12: dollar asset class. And so I think that it's really 529 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 12: important that we get the rules right so that consumers 530 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 12: feel protected, so that institutions feel comfort to come in, 531 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 12: but also so that the developers, the builders of the 532 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 12: underlying blockchains and the applications on top of the blockchains, 533 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 12: they understand the rules of the roads. They can do 534 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 12: it right here in the US I think this is 535 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 12: going to be a big part of our economy in 536 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 12: the future, and if we don't get the rules right now, 537 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 12: we're going to miss out on that here in the 538 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 12: United States. 539 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 3: Have you been asked, Kristin for bisar Ro pardon? Have 540 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 3: you been off to told about Bizarro? 541 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 12: I've spoken to some people about it, not for me, 542 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 12: but I've offered some ideas as to what kind of 543 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 12: qualifications would be goad. 544 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 4: Kristin Smith, thank you for the transparency. It's great to 545 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 4: have you on again. See the blockchain and Association. Meanwhile, let's 546 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 4: talk about other government versus tech. Google and the US 547 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 4: government really facing it off in federal court today as 548 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 4: each side and delivering its closing arguments in the case, 549 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 4: and the tech joan's a legend monopoly of online advertising. 550 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 3: Adam Epstein's here with us. He's COSEO of the Search. 551 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 4: Advertising Company and Marketplace been advising the DOJ and Trust 552 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 4: team on the remedies in this case. 553 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 3: And this is sprawling. At the moment. 554 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 4: Everyone's front of mind for Alphabet and Google is the 555 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 4: fact that they might have to sell off Chrome. Now 556 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 4: many would say, okay, it's about dominance and search. Many 557 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 4: people worry us about dominance and advertising, and that's something 558 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 4: that Europe's been looking at too. Just tell us what 559 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 4: role you've played for the US government. 560 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 14: Sure, so you know, I've been in search for twenty years. 561 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 14: I went to the closing arguments back in May, the 562 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 14: decision came out and August and I wrote a memo 563 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 14: talking about how there could be behavioral remedies that could 564 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 14: fix the search and the advertising search advertising markets. The 565 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 14: DOJ saw the memos, asked me to speak with them 566 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 14: a few times about what we're doing, and then you've 567 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 14: seen in their proposed final judgment in order. Some of 568 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 14: the ideas are in there, as well as some of 569 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 14: the ideas around Chrome divestiture, Android divestiture. Some of that's 570 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 14: around making sure that Google would comply with the behavioral remedies. 571 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 14: And so this is a two hundred billion dollar market 572 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 14: and this minimum opolate's been running for a while, so 573 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 14: getting the remedy rate is difficult, and then making sure 574 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 14: that there's compliance will be the next step. 575 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 4: Your business is in the world of placing advertising, but 576 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 4: not having to depend just purely on a few key 577 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 4: dominant forces in search. Right, would some of the things 578 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 4: being discussed at the moment. Some of the remedies dramatic 579 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 4: as they are, help your benefit and benefit your business. 580 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 14: Sure, you know, there's I think a lot of folks 581 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 14: that would be able to invest in this. In this industry, 582 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 14: it's been I think such an adelict. Microsoft called it 583 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 14: a no fly zone for investment for about twenty years. 584 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 14: So we've been working where we can around the edges 585 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 14: to help browsers and large shopping apps create native search experiences, 586 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 14: and we think that is the future. And obviously we 587 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 14: have a little bit of a head start, but there 588 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 14: will be a lot of entrance in this space, both 589 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 14: from the advertising side and on the search results side, 590 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 14: especially around AI next gen search agents. 591 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 4: That's really the future, and that's that's kind of the 592 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 4: irony of the whole situation. Many feel Actually Google's never 593 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 4: been under such competitive threat than they are now, particularly 594 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 4: when it comes to us perhaps dotting Google searched one 595 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 4: and instead using chat gipt. 596 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 3: You might also they be using AI overviews and a 597 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 3: Gemini offering. 598 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 4: Just from your perspective setting off a chrome, can you 599 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 4: see anyone in the market actually. 600 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 3: Buying that, apart from an open AI for example. 601 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 14: Sure, I think there's other folks that would be itento 602 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 14: in buying Chrome. It's the largest browser in the world. 603 00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 14: I think with the DOJ's initial proposed to be really 604 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 14: set off was the first shot of browser war three 605 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 14: point zero. Okay, So I think you'll see other browsers, 606 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 14: you know, the duc Duck goes the Firefox of the world, 607 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 14: the Braves, those folks will be more to the front forefront. 608 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 14: There'll be new browsers coming out, perhaps really built around 609 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 14: gen Ai and the idea there is that you know, 610 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 14: if we have a lot of entry points and we're 611 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 14: still able to have some Google modernization, some Google results 612 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 14: side by side, that's gonna be the best and most 613 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 14: innovative experience for users and searchers. 614 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 2: It's not that it's an all or nothing. 615 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 14: Either you get Google and you've got to take Gemini, 616 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 14: or you can use something else. It's a little bit 617 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 14: more innovative or trying something different. The idea that we 618 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 14: all go to the search engine result page of Google 619 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 14: and basically get a one size fits all solution. That's 620 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 14: I think what the real you know, detriment is to 621 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 14: consumers and to users of the search monopoly. 622 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 2: We have Chrome in place, but the problem is. 623 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 4: It's very expensive for the infrastructure build around an offering 624 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 4: such as search and Google Chrome as an access point 625 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 4: to search. Would anyone ever be able to offer such 626 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 4: a great product consumers without the huge deep pockets that 627 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 4: a Google has. 628 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 14: Exactly so half the clicks that Google sells out to 629 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 14: advertisers start on third party sites like Apple, like Samsung. 630 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 14: The question is can they get access to Google's results 631 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 14: into their ads and then curate their own experiences with 632 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 14: perhaps instead of Gemini, a chat GPT search agent, or 633 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 14: with other ads, or with other results, or ranking and 634 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 14: changing how the rankings work. That's really what we're talking 635 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 14: about is allowing for that innovation to take to take hold, 636 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 14: not forcing force funneling every user to search result page 637 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 14: of Google in order to take advantage of Google's assets. 638 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 14: So the idea is, I think it's both. It's not 639 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 14: an either or situation, and that would be the remedy 640 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 14: that I think gets us into a more innovative space 641 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 14: and also brings competition to the market, which is at 642 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 14: the end of the day, what the goal is. 643 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 4: Well, we're going to be waiting for the final round 644 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 4: of what exactly is going to be offered, and indeed, 645 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 4: then an appeal process. But in the meantime, Adam, it's 646 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 4: been great having here from a perspective of the ad marketplace. 647 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 4: Is coca there, Adam Epstein. Meanwhile, coming up some major 648 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 4: fundrais news for cybersecurity firm Halcion. 649 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 3: Company CEO John Miller joins us. 650 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 13: Next, this is a bloom technology. 651 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 3: In today's VC Spotlight. 652 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 4: We're talking about the explosive growth in ransomware, and we're 653 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 4: looking at. 654 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 3: What a cybersecurity firm, Halcion is. 655 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 4: Doing to stop those attacks and how it plans to 656 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 4: invest his newest round of funding. Here with more is 657 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 4: Halsey and CEO John Miller, who's just announced announcing one 658 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 4: hundred million dollar raise. 659 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 3: It's your Series C. 660 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 4: Congratulations John, and I want to understand when you yourself now 661 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 4: have a one billion dollar valuation, put that into context 662 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 4: of how much each year cut bad actors are making 663 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 4: from ransomware. 664 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 15: Oh, it's a small, small fraction. 665 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 11: Right. 666 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 15: We've seen the growth of ransomware year over year explode 667 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 15: in the last five years. You know, the losses that 668 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 15: corporations are seen are on the scale of tens to 669 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 15: hundreds of billions of dollars a year, Right, Now, the 670 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 15: scary thing is we're the only actual, or at least 671 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 15: the first any ransomware company to ever exist where we 672 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 15: took ransomware as the mission of our company to try 673 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 15: to figure out how to mitigate as much risk for 674 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 15: our customers as possible. 675 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,719 Speaker 4: Okay, so that's fascinating for our viewers to try and understand. 676 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 4: How you block suddenly your corporate being overtaken and everything 677 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 4: demanding that you give them some crypto payment immediately. What 678 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 4: is it that your technology is different? 679 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 15: So what we're all about is breaking that leverage that 680 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 15: they get to actually incent someone to pay them, right. 681 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 15: So it normally goes down into kind of two forms 682 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 15: of extortion. One is they'll come in and encrypt everyone's data, 683 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 15: effectively breaking the computers, right, and then they'll demand extortion 684 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 15: to get the encryption keys back to bring all the 685 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 15: data back. And then the double ex as it's called, 686 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 15: is when they steal data from outside of the enterprise 687 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 15: and then charge you to not release it. And so 688 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 15: what helsy on what we do is we've figured out 689 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 15: how they xfiltrate or steal that data, and we stop 690 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 15: it when it starts to get stolen, and we when 691 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 15: they go to encrypt the systems, we stop them, and 692 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 15: if they successfully encrypt something, we capture the encryption keys 693 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 15: and we have the ability to just decrypt everything. 694 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 4: Anyway you can explain the underlying of what it is 695 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 4: you're doing. 696 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean it's all super technical, right. The best 697 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 15: way to think of it as like a new type 698 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 15: of focused anti virus. Instead of anti virus being wide 699 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 15: against all types of kind of malware and spyware and adwear, 700 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 15: we're just focused on ransomware. And so because of that, 701 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 15: we every day we follow the different groups, We take 702 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 15: apart their tools, we take apart their samples. We're just 703 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 15: completely focused on this threat, and it's giving us increased 704 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 15: efficacy over everybody else that's trying to do like general 705 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 15: security for everything. It was our theory that ransomware had 706 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,839 Speaker 15: becomes such a big problem that by actually focusing on 707 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 15: it alone would give you higher affocacy in the ability 708 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 15: to mitigate more risk than the more generalized solutions that exists. 709 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 4: But at the moment we are We had Palo Alto 710 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 4: Network see on last week, for example, and there's a 711 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,240 Speaker 4: shift between towards what he says is platformization. People wanting 712 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 4: not just loads and loads of different vendors, but wanting 713 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 4: a one stop shop to protect them. 714 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:35,879 Speaker 3: Would you end up folding in. 715 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 4: Your offerings to other cyber players out there? What is 716 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 4: your end goal here when you've now raised a good 717 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,240 Speaker 4: chunk of change from some key partners. 718 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 15: So we integrate with all of those players, the Palo Alto's, 719 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 15: the Cisco's, the Dells. Really we are kind of our 720 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 15: own platform, right, so we're building ourselves to not just 721 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 15: have a feature that gets integrated into something bigger, but 722 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:08,399 Speaker 15: a platform specifically around mitigating the risk of these ransomware threats. Right, 723 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 15: as these attackers continue to get more money and be 724 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 15: more successful, it just gives them better access, they get 725 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 15: better tools, there's more of them. So we're starting to, 726 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 15: I mean, and I think it's obvious we're starting to 727 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 15: lose the war against these attackers. And by coming in, 728 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 15: we're going to use this money to just try to 729 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 15: bring as much value as we can to our customers 730 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 15: about stopping these ransomware attacks. 731 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 4: John Miller und a million dollar Seriously, we thank you 732 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 4: from Houseion. Amazon getting ready to go toe to toe 733 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 4: with Nvidia in the AI hardware space, so that won't 734 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,359 Speaker 4: happen anytime soon. The car coomputing giant is hoping to 735 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,280 Speaker 4: reduce its reliance on the chip maker Remags. 736 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 3: Matt Day is here for more. 737 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 4: The toe to toe quote comes from a very key 738 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 4: executives within Amazon who's trying to take on in video 739 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 4: in the training and inference space. 740 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 3: Tell us about it, that's right. 741 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,919 Speaker 16: That was from James Hamilton, the godfather of Amazon Web 742 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 16: Services hardware strategy. 743 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:15,399 Speaker 2: About a decade ago. 744 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 16: He suggested to Jeff Bezos that they get started making chips, 745 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 16: and we're seeing some of the fruits of that now. 746 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 16: You know, they weren't necessarily planning on the AI boom 747 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 16: to unfold as it is, but you know, it just 748 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 16: so happens. They're on their third generation of AI chip 749 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 16: and they think they've got a part as they'd call it, 750 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,320 Speaker 16: that can compete within video. 751 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,359 Speaker 4: Why is the generation so important and why therefore they're 752 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 4: going all out and handing four billion dollars to Anthropic 753 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 4: again to be able to get them to use these chips. 754 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 16: Ever Moore, Yeah, so the third generation is kind of 755 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,399 Speaker 16: the prove it point in chips. You know, your first 756 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 16: is an experiment, your second starts to catch on in 757 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,359 Speaker 16: the third. If you did it right, It's probably going 758 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 16: to be the one that gets you the volume and 759 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 16: the success that or else you go a different direction. 760 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 16: This is definitely helps explain why Amazon is doing things 761 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 16: like spending all that money on anthropic as you said, 762 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 16: investing in them and investing in other partners who will 763 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 16: help them use their chips, help them improve Amazon's home 764 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 16: built chips and build a better mass trap to compete 765 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:05,760 Speaker 16: more effectively within video. 766 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 4: In videos down a lot today, three percent. It's a 767 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 4: big move in terms of market cap because it's of 768 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 4: course got a massive market cap. But at what point 769 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 4: would we see less dependence on an Invidia from an Amazon. 770 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,280 Speaker 4: What is they end goal here that they no longer 771 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 4: have to buy them at all, or is it more 772 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 4: that they just supplement and aren't quite so dependent. 773 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 16: I think it's definitely to supplement it. You know, Amazon's 774 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 16: a pretty sober about this. They're not trying to remove 775 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 16: all of the Invidia from their data centers, far from it, 776 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 16: and that would be a miracle if they could pull 777 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 16: that off. And I think the goal, if they were 778 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,800 Speaker 16: even optimistic, would be that they can create a credible 779 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 16: rival to in video. They can put a lot of 780 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 16: those in their own data centers, and then you know, 781 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 16: for the customers of theirs who want to use in 782 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 16: video that's still around, but that they've got a competitive 783 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 16: offering as well. 784 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 4: And just remind us, I mean, Alphabet's been at this 785 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 4: a long time. Microsoft and just getting in the space. 786 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 16: Yeah, Amazon's got company, or as you said, Google's been 787 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 16: doing this for about a decade. Microsoft just now is 788 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 16: rolling out its first chips. But it seems that everyone 789 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 16: in the cloud has come to sort of the same 790 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 16: realization that they need to build the hardware too, and 791 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 16: they need to build the more sophisticated hardware, which are 792 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 16: the chips. 793 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:08,399 Speaker 3: Matt Day. 794 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 4: It is a great piece Today's Bloomberg Big Take, go 795 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 4: read it, an excellent deep dive. 796 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 3: Meanwhile, we've got. 797 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 4: Plenty more news on Amazon because that came out on 798 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 4: Friday that they're really trying to help their clients. 799 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:20,720 Speaker 3: Understand quantum computing. 800 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 4: It's the next iteration of artificial intelligence and machine learning, 801 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,240 Speaker 4: and boy is it helping some quantum computing stocks. 802 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 3: Look at this. On the day, we're currently. 803 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 4: Seeing Rerighetti up seventy one percent. We're up twenty eight 804 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 4: percent on quantum computing as They're saying, Amazon's offering advisory 805 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 4: help as well as, of course the future of where 806 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 4: hardware goes when it comes to using quantum computing for 807 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 4: its clients. Now that does it for this edition of 808 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 4: Bloomberg Technology. You do not want to forget. 809 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 3: To check out our podcast. 810 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 4: I find more on the terminal as well as online 811 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 4: on Apple, on Spotify, and iHeart this is Bloomberg Technology. 812 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 2: This healthy shay N Health over