WEBVTT - Six Deadly Poisons 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.040 The earth pours forth a profusion of medicinal plants, and 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:07.560 is always producing something for the use of man. We 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:11.160 may even suppose that it is out of compassion to us, 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:15.400 that she has ordained certain substances to be poisonous, in 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:19.279 order that, when we are weary of life hunger, a 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:23.079 mode of death that most foreign to the kind disposition 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:27.440 of the earth, might not consume us by a slow decay. 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:31.440 That precipices might not laceerate our mangled bodies, that the 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:36.320 unseemly punishment of the halter may not torture us by 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.880 stopping the breath of one who seeks his own destruction, 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:42.800 or that we may not seek our death in the 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.240 ocean and become food for our graves, or that our 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:50.879 bodies may not be gashed by steel. On this account, 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:53.840 it is that nature has produced a substance which is 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:58.120 very easily taken, and by which life is extinguished, the 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.279 body remaining undefied child and retaining all its blood, and 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.840 only causing a degree of thirst. And when it is 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:09.679 destroyed by this means, neither bird nor beast will touch 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:13.240 the body. But he who has perished by his own hands, 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:21.679 he is reserved for the earth Welcome to Stuff to 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:30.559 Blow Your Mind from how Stuff Works dot com. Hey, 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:32.560 welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:37.040 Robert Lamb and I'm Pliny the Elder. Actually I'm Christian Seger. 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.640 Today's episode was brought to you by a quote by 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.200 a good old Pliny. Oh yes, yes, that's from the 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:47.000 Natural History, one of our favorite Roman historians. As always, 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:51.880 you can't take everything that Pliny says um as the 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:54.000 as the complete truth. I always take it with a 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.840 certain grain of salt. But he's he he when we'll 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.240 get back to the grain of salt thing at the end, uh, 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:04.520 because that actually comes from the riding of Plenty. But 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:08.920 he always has such interesting inside and commentary on the 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.040 natural world, and in this case he's talking about the 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:16.200 wonders of poison. Yeah, it's a nice little poetic riff 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:20.720 on basically the idea that our bodies are essentially like 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:24.240 chemical machines, right, and that like think of it like 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.359 as in comparison to a car, Like instead of putting 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.840 gasoline in a car, if you filled it up with milk, 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:34.720 that's gonna really mess with the system, right, and the 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:40.040 exactly uh, And so basically we're focusing on how there 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:41.880 are these things in the natural world that if you 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.520 just put them into our system, boy does it really 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.000 mess things up. And for the longest time we didn't 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.239 really understand why. Right, there was all this mythology around 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.799 the reasons why we have a whole episode that's on 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:58.880 wolf Spain or actually aconite, uh, and the surrounding myths 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:00.959 around that and the science of how that poisons the 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.200 human body. But we thought, you know what, it's let's 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:06.440 pull out the handbook. Let's look at some of the 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.320 otter poisons that are out there. Uh, specifically natural ones 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:12.359 were not. I don't think we have any synthetic ones 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:14.160 in here. No, I think all of these tie into 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.600 a natural source. And and that's really that's really the 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:20.720 fascinating thing, right, is that these are all generally cases. 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.519 Generally speaking, these are cases where the natural world, specifically 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.040 that the world of of plants has produced various chemical 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:32.200 weapons for their defense, and humans are able to manipulate 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.160 those chemical weapons to our advantage. And I mean we 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:36.920 do that with things that aren't even poisons. We do 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:40.080 that with spices. But in this case, we're gonna be 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:44.560 looking at at at particular substances that that have been 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:48.880 used and are used as deadly poisons, yet not all 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:51.360 of these would necessarily be enough to fill up a 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.160 whole episode. And also if we were just going to 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:56.560 do an episode on poisons in general, that would fill 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.960 up probably the whole podcast. So we decided, let's boil 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.520 it down each of us take three that we're really 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:05.720 interested in talking about, do the research, and then bring 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:09.000 it to you all. Uh. And I had to be honest. 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:11.040 I mean, we've been talking about doing something like this 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.520 for a while, but good Old Game of Thrones has 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:17.600 definitely brought this to the forefront of my mind because 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:21.440 poisons are so common on that show. Uh, if you're 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:23.520 a fan, I'm going to refrain from or if you're 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.760 not a fan, rather, I'm gonna refrain from mentioning any specifics. 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.160 But George R. Martin has just created this entire world 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.719 of fictional poisons. He's got the Tears of is It Lists, 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:37.840 Tears of Lists, then there's the Strangler and the Long Farewell. 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.520 But then he actually uses some real ones as well. 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:44.479 In fact, Wolf Spaane isn't in the show has mentioned before. Uh, 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.840 he he distorts what their actual effects are. But we 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:49.840 any of the milk of a poppy as well, which 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.920 is a medicinal substance but can be overdosed on with 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.200 fairly easily. Yeah, exactly, And so it's like this thing 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.720 that I don't know. In present day, we don't usually 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:04.120 think about poison all that much because it's not common, 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.080 even though it could be right, especially like when we 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:09.560 go through these examples today, you realize like, oh wow, 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:11.640 it's actually not that hard to get ahold of something 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.640 that could absolutely kill my neighbor drop dead if I 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:16.640 put it in their Pooh. Yeah, I mean, and if 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:18.359 you have if you have a child, or even have 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:20.560 have pets though, you mean you're aware that there are 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:24.000 certain certain substances you do not want them to get 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:27.400 their their hands or their paws upon. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:31.279 So we decided to hit our favorites. Uh, and Robert, 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.120 you're going to start us off today. This one sounds interesting, 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:38.719 the Devil's Foot. Yes, so we're talking about you know, 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.760 where do we see our poisons use fictionally? Game of 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.599 Thrones to be sure, but so many different murder mysteries 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.800 in fiction revolve around a poison because it's always a 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:51.880 mysterious death has occurred, and we have to connect the dots. 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:54.599 It's like the classic answer to a locked room mystery 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.800 is poison. Yeah, so uh, indeed, uh, I'm gonna talk 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:03.080 a little bit about a fictional poison from the Tales 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:07.080 of Sherlock Holmes. Uh, Sir Rotha Conan Doyle's tales that 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:11.000 actually has a real world counterpart. Uh, it was actually 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:15.799 inspired by a particular poison. So some of my favorite 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.279 Sherlock Holmes tales are the ones that did buck the 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:21.560 more famous cliches. They're the ones where say Holmes lets 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:24.960 the killer go free, or the ones where the narrative 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:30.279 seems to tread dangerously close to supernatural waters. And so 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.400 the perfect fit for both of these categories is nineteen 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.479 tens The Adventure of the Devil's Foot, And it's pretty 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.120 much my go to tail. And I'm particularly fond of 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:44.159 the nineteen eight Granada adaptation that started to uh, the 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.039 wonderful Jeremy Brett as homes. Are these the ones that 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.160 they used to play on PBS. Yeah, and this is 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:53.440 this is a wonderful episode because it really gets into 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:58.000 that kind of supernatural possibly supernatural territory and and even 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.280 some kind of psychedelic scenes. H I agree with you. 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:03.640 I think like some of the best home stuff is 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:07.200 where you're treading so close to something that's like a 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.520 paranormal phenomenon, but then there's like an actual explanation for it. 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.400 In fact, I know a lot of people don't love 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.920 this movie, but young Sherlock Holmes, that was one of 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.160 the things that always attracted me to it as a 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:21.160 kid was that it was like teetering on the brink 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.040 of being supernatural. Oh yeah, that that's one that I 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.120 only have a vague memory of from when I was 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.480 a kid. But I actually thought it was full on 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:30.800 supernatural woul until later that I realized that they were. 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.880 They had an hallucination plot. Yeah, I think that's it. Yeah. 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.880 So I am going to spoil the Adventure of the 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:41.760 Devil's Foot for you. Spoilers for a one seven year 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.400 old story. Yeah. And and if you are trying to 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:46.440 remain spoiler free on this, if you're like making your 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:49.920 way through the Granada television series or you're reading the books, 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.600 then I don't know. I guess skip forward like fifteen minutes, 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:54.400 ten fifteen minutes and you can move on to the 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.480 next one. Uh. But here's here's how it goes down. 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:02.480 The case concerns a famed explorer named Dr Leon Sterndale 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:07.320 and the feuding Trey Ginnis family. So Holmes and Watson 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:11.360 there on a seaside holiday for health reasons. Um, you know, 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.160 as you do, because Holmes has been taking too many 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.600 drugs again. He needs to clean him out. Yeah, it is, 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:20.280 well in the TV series it is, so it's I 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:22.640 don't think this is president in the in the actual 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:26.720 written tale, but Jeremy Brad especially wanted Holmes to kick 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:30.720 his m his addiction, so he consisted that this would 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:34.000 be a good episode for him to kick his cocaine 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.800 and morphine. Okay, Okay, I was just joking. I had. Yeah, 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:41.000 well that's where I go to seaside towns for so. 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.560 So they're in the midst of this and Holmes is like, 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.160 you know, he's taken his syringe and buried it in 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:49.520 the sand. Uh. And then suddenly a local man, Mr. 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.600 Mortimer True Guinness, arrives with a vicar to report a 0:08:53.720 --> 0:09:00.079 sudden case of insanity. So Trey Guinness's two brothers have 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.600 suddenly gone mad and that the sister is dead. They 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:07.200 find they find the two brothers disturbingly just stark raving 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.719 mad in their kitchen and the sister Brenda, sets opposite 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:14.839 the window and she's just completely dead. So Sherlock investigates, 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.920 and the early suspicion is that something terrifying appeared at 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.840 the window and he killed her with frightened just drove 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.440 them mad. So this, you know, just kind of potentially 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.640 supernatural encounter, like what was this being that appeared at 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.679 the window. But he starts looking at the evidence, and 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:34.240 the ground outside the window is not disturbed. The mystery remains, 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:38.079 but Holmes is is various. You know, he's gonna side 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:42.840 on the non supernatural explanation. But then Mortemurtregennis winds up 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:46.520 dead as well, and there's this lamp burning beside him 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.160 on the table. Now Here in the lamp home, Holmes 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:54.360 finds some unburnt powder, so he test this out on himself. 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.679 He burns it inhales the smoke and he nearly succumbs 0:09:57.679 --> 0:09:59.880 to madness and death as well. And there's just fab 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:01.880 the sequence in the TV show where he has these 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:06.679 psychedelic visions of death. And then we we finally learn 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.560 through his investigation that what happened is that Mortimer stole 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.320 a sample of a deadly African poison from the local 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:18.440 home of the explorer Dr Leon Sterndale. Now Sterndale had 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:23.000 just left for a lengthy journey overseas. So more Mortimer 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:24.600 thought that he was going to be out of the picture, 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:27.199 you know, for virtually forever, because it was this is 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:30.440 going to consume the rest of his life. But he 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.320 had He ended up receiving word of the sisters death, 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:37.400 of Brenda's death, and Brenda he had loved her for years, 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:38.880 but he was unable to marry her, so he had 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.400 a deep connection to her. So he returns and he 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:46.000 kills mortimurtre Guinnis with the same deadly poison that was 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.040 used on his beloved. And the poison is that we're 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:53.880 told is radics pettus dialbolie the Devil's foot route. Okay, 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.240 so why do they give an explanation as to why 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.000 it's called that doesn't look like a little like demon foot, 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.200 like a red foot with some tonails. Uh kind of, 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.320 I mean sort of. It looks like a like a 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.480 root and has devilish effects and uh. And I also 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.120 remember in the Granada series, anytime they introduce it, they 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.720 have kind of lists up, you know, African drumbeat in 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:16.880 the background, which is really cool. Oh yeah, I'm recalling cheese. 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.079 Do you remember we talked about this in the Wolf 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.720 Spane episode I think, or maybe it was the Mushrooms episode. 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:23.840 I went to the dog park one time and there 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.120 was this weird fungus growing in the dog park. I 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:27.760 took a picture of it and put it on the 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:31.200 Stuff to Blow your Mind Facebook page, and immediately members 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.840 of our audience were like, oh, that is such and 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.200 such fungus, and it was like the devil's horn, I 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:40.040 believe the term for it. So that's why I'm sort 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:44.800 of imagining this this demon looking mushroom. I guess yeah, 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.040 I mean certainly is an authentic sounding title. It is 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:52.080 a fictitious poison. However, there is a grounding and actual botany, 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:54.440 so this was This is really cool to learn. I 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.800 was not familiar with this story until until recently when 0:11:56.840 --> 0:12:00.800 I started looking into it. So, according to two different sources, 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:02.760 I looked at Here Books Health, the book's Health and 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:05.400 History blog of the New York Academy of Medicine, and 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:08.320 as well as an article in the Guardian. According to them, 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.360 Holmes creator Sir Arthur Cornan Doyle did some self experimentation 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.280 of his own as a third year medical student at 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:20.280 the University of Edinburgh with a substance known as gil simium, 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.320 and he wrote about this in an in the in 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:26.200 an eighteen seventy nine issue of the British Medical Journal. 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:28.600 This is gonna turn out to be a common theme 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:31.560 I think today as people just trying stuff out on themselves. Well, 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:33.320 it kind of gets back to our Wolf Spain episode 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:37.800 where we talked about the mythical origins and Chinese traditional medicine, 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.720 that you had this one godlike being that kind of 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.480 went around trying these things and determining what was poised 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.640 because essentially that sort of trial and error and then 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:49.400 you know the knowledge you passed on. That's that's where 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:51.760 we learned that there are certain things you eat and 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.080 certain ones you don't, and there's this gray area of 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.680 stuff that you know exactly how much to apply and win. 0:12:57.880 --> 0:12:59.839 I think I'm glad that we're at a point in history, 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.160 or I don't. I'm not in a situation where I'm like, 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:05.360 I guess I should just try that, try, try a 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:07.840 small amount of it and see what happens. Yeah, I mean, 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.560 especially with with the gil simium So there are three 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.960 varieties of this Two are found in Central America, in 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.520 one in southern China. It's a woody vine with bright 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:22.960 yellow flowers. And the Asian variety, gil Simium elegans, is 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.640 the most deadly of the three, and it's also known 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:30.000 as heartbreak grass. So gil Simium was actually once used 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.319 to treat migraines, but that but the key side effect 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:37.000 was loss of muscle control. So this is also a 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.960 common theme, which is that, like, the reason why we 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:41.400 know about a lot of this stuff is because we 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:45.679 used it to treat various ailments. Yeah right, but that 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.240 too much of it, too much, many things, bad thing. 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.800 Yeah yeah, too much of something from your spice rack 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:55.760 will will give you dire consequences in some cases. So, 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:59.920 prior to writing this paper and conducting the self experiment, 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.680 uh Doyle had taken a tincture of this stuff to 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.959 treat nerve pain. But for the experiment he took nine 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.600 million leaders and he reported quote severe frontal headache with 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:15.640 diarrhea and general lassitude. Okay, then he lassitude mean, I'm 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:19.720 not familiar with that, that loose bowell syndrome. Well, you know, 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.840 he's just kind of loose in the seat. I guess 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.320 you would say, okay, alright. So then he up the 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.440 dosage to twelve million leaders and at this point quote 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:34.120 that diarrhea was so persistent and prostrating that I must stop. 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.480 At twelve million leaders. I feel great depression and a 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:41.280 severe frontal headache. The pulse was still normal, but weak. 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:43.440 It's too bad he didn't write this into the Sherlock 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.640 Holmes story. It's just like this story about these big 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:52.280 these detectives having horrible diarrhea and headaches. Yeah, death death 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.640 by or with diarrhea um would have made it more 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:57.760 horrific in some ways, but he decided to sort of 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:00.280 you know, weird fiction. I think I think made a 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:05.040 classier so uh you know. The basic just here, though, 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.840 is that s arthocon and Doyle was something of a 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:10.920 poison enthusiast and he was a risk taker, so he 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.680 conducted this experiment on himself. We we know now with 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.400 the additional research into the matter, that an overdose of 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:22.680 this stuff would result in dizziness, nausea, blurred vision, and convulsions, 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.800 and higher doses could result in paralysis of the spinal 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:28.240 cord and this would lead to a near total loss 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:32.880 of muscular power and eventually asphyxia. Not a good way 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.120 to go. Yeah, it's not quite the madness and death 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:39.040 of the Devil's Foot, but it's pretty bad. So. Gil 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:43.320 Simium has been used as an analgesic and various homeopathic products, 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.080 but the toxicity limits its usefulness. At the dawn of 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.680 the twentieth century, was still being used in asthma and 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.560 respiratory remedies, and it also factors into traditional Chinese medicine 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:56.440 where it's used to treat pain. But it has allegedly 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:00.080 been used as a deadly poison. Uh. And this is 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:01.520 this is where we end up with a couple of 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:05.720 very recent cases of alleges to gyl simium poisoning, and 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.520 they both took place in two thousand twelve. So, according 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.200 to The Guardian, in two thousand twelve, the death of 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:16.280 Chinese forestry tycoon Long Leon was linked to a quote 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:24.640 poison cat stew containing gil simium. Is this a stew 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:27.800 made of cat or a stew forecats, well, in this 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.680 case made with cat and gil simium. Yeah, I mean 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.960 you occasionally find, you know, Chinese dishes that still have 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.600 these these meats with Yeah, I'm aware from the time 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.800 that I spent in Beijing. I remember that that kind 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.480 of stuff being on the menu occasionally, Okay, wanting to 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:47.240 make sure for our audience. So he definitely ordered it 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.640 with the cat. But if there is gil simium in it, 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.480 he definitely did not order that part. Didn't That was 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:57.200 some nefarious spice, right. So another case, and this one 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.320 again is uh is alleged the two thousand twelve death 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:06.199 of Russian businessman and whistleblower Alexander. This seems to be 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:09.600 like a common at least like in terms of like 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.600 news media where we're hearing about poisoning, the most is 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.520 Russian whistle blowers. Yeah, I mean probably we could do 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.840 we could do a whole episode just on espionage related poisoning. Yeah. 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.040 In fact, like as I was looking up like different 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.760 poisons to hit for this episode, so many of the 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:26.600 examples kept coming up. It was like, oh, in the 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:30.159 last ten years, you know, this Russian former diplomat was 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:34.000 poison this journalist was poison Jadiyata. Now and in this case, 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.439 as with some of these these others you're alluding to, 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:42.040 it's not certain. Uh. The gall simium link it comes 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.840 via a life insurance company ordered test two years after 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.760 his death, and based on that it has been suggested 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:53.479 that he was assassinated by Russian operatives. Wow. So, so 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.119 I think that's a fabulous poison to kick off here, 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.760 because we go from the fictional realm to uh, you know, 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.680 this tale of an author testing a real poison out 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:05.320 on himself, and then to uh, you know, recent alleged 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.359 poisonings in China and Russia. All right, well, I will 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:12.840 add that index card to my recipe book. Uh and 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.800 I will I will counter that with one to you. 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.399 Have you ever heard of Spanish fly before? This is 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:21.600 the kind of thing fourteen year old boys ask each other, 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.560 as people who've listened to the show for a while. No, 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:28.880 I actually grew up in Singapore, and you could kind 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.359 of buy substances over there that you wouldn't necessarily be 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:36.440 able to find in like American malls. Right, And there 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:39.399 were constantly students at my school talking about how they 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:41.880 had purchased Spanish fly while they were on a trip 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:45.439 to Malaysia or Indonesia or something like that. They'd like 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:47.560 pull like a weird little vial out and it would 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:51.919 just be some powder. And you know, fourteen year old boys, 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:56.120 what's what's Spanish fly? Oh, it's this magic love potion 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:58.960 and all you have to do is like, uh, put 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:00.920 it on somebody or make sure that they eat it 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.399 and they fall in love with you. That was the 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:05.800 urban myth of this when I was in high school. 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:10.280 Right Ironically, there's actually a bit of stand up from 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:14.760 Bill Cosby from his early years about childhood tales of 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:18.200 of Spanish Fly and how wonderful it was supposed to be. 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.679 So I'll just I'll just leave that there for everyone 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:23.080 to consider. It is it's like a really weird thing, 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.399 Like when I think back on it, that like we 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.639 would sit around and kind of talk about this and 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.560 obviously there's no scientific marrit behind that, as I will 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.000 get into, but talk about it as like, oh, this 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:36.520 that's a really intriguing thing about the world that I 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.040 didn't realize that there's a substance that just makes somebody 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:42.560 fall in love with you, right like like, but in 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.720 it's a wonderful way, I guess to rebrand a poison 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:48.359 for sexual assault. Well that's exactly it, right, Like I 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:50.560 look back on that and I'm like, these these innocent 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:53.720 boys around like the lunch table in the cafeteria are 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.199 talking about this and you don't really realize. Then you 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.399 extrapolated it out to Bill Cosby levels and you realize, like, 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:03.200 oh my god, this is horrible. You know. Now, Spanish 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:05.479 fly is a real thing, but it's not what I 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:09.280 was told when I was fourteen living in Singapore. Actually, 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.520 what it is is something called can theridin and cam 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.960 theradin is a substance that is derived from a subgroup 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.719 of blister beetles and it can cause the skin to blister. 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:22.639 This is where these bugs get their name. Specifically, the 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:26.600 blister beetle is known as the Spanish fly or the 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:32.200 lighta Vesicatoria, and it's common to a South European species 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:37.360 from which can't theorides is extracted and commercially prepared by 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:41.160 crushing the wing covers on the adults. Now there's reportedly 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:45.520 Spanish fly that is found in northern Mediterranean regions, not 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:51.400 just in Spain. Basically, these bugs secrete cantoried and from 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:56.480 their mouths and there's in their joints. They have this 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:00.760 milky substance that seeps out. It sounds really gross, but 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.439 the male beetle uses this as a defense mechanism. And 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.439 then here here's an interesting point. That leads to the 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:12.040 myth the male gives the female this substance as a 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:16.760 copulatory gift before they mate, so that might be like 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:21.119 the origin of this whole thing. But it's actually quite poisonous. 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.760 But despite how poisonous it is, it's used as a 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:29.879 skin irritant and a diuretic, and yes, as an aphrodisiac 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:34.639 in some cultures. The lethal dosage for an adult human 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:38.320 of Spanish fly is about ten milligrams, and in fact, 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:43.560 one Jamma Dermatology article reviewed for this episode, it argued 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:47.520 that cantherdin should be re added to the medications that 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:52.040 doctors currently use in their office. Basically, it's used they 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:56.600 apply it topically to treat warts or something like molluscumb 0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:00.800 skin infections. In nineteen sixty two, however, here in the 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:05.719 United States, it lost its FDA approval because manufacturers didn't 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:10.960 submit their data about its efficacy, and it's expected to 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:14.000 soon be back on what is called the f d 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:19.000 a's Bulk Substances List, which permits physicians to use it 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:22.600 in the office on individual patients. So presumably, if you 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:24.639 came in you had a bad case, awards or something 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:27.359 on your hand, your doctor would say well, you know it, 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:29.080 I'll pull some of this Kent therap in out of 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:31.240 the old cabinet here, We'll put it on there. It'll 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:34.040 blister away these warts and then your skin will be 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:37.560 free of this. Uh. The JAMMA article actually also says 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:41.200 that they could not find any reports of Kent therapy 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:45.000