1 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My 4 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: guest is John Langraf, Chairman of FX Networks, NAT GEO 5 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: and Onyx. Landgraf doesn't need too much introduction to regular 6 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: listeners of Strictly Business. Simply put, he's one of the 7 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: most respected executives in all of entertainment. He's a deep 8 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: thinker who is in a class by himself when it 9 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: comes to deep thinking about the entertainment business. And what's more, 10 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: he's got the courage of his convictions and he's not 11 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: afraid to say what he thinks. Landgraf was generous enough 12 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: to be the guest speaker on November nineteenth at Variety's 13 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: annual Business Manager's Breakfast event in West Hollywood. In a 14 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: room full of accountants and lawyers. Landgraff wasn't afraid to 15 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: get into the details of FX's approach to talent compensation. 16 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: It's a different philosophy than many of his top competitors. 17 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: He also spoke candidly about FX's journey through the past 18 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: few years to settling into a comfortable place within the 19 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: Walt Disney Company. The conversation whiz by for me on stage, 20 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: but smart folks in the audience told me afterward that 21 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: it was substantive, so I hope listeners will agree. It's 22 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: all coming up after this break. 23 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: Did you know that seven to ten consumers crave more authentic, 24 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 2: culturally diverse stories in media. That's just one of the 25 00:01:55,040 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 2: insights Amazon Ads uncovered in It's from Ads to Zeitgeist research. 26 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: The streaming revolution has transformed how we access entertainment, connecting 27 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 2: viewers and listeners to content from every corner of the globe. 28 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 2: But what does this mean for brands? A new VIP report, 29 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: Entertainment Everywhere, builds on the Amazon Ads research to explore 30 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 2: this fascinating intersection of culture, entertainment, and advertising. Visit Variety 31 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: dot com slash vip for more information. 32 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: And we're back with the conversation with FX chairman John Landgraf. 33 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: It has been a heck of a year for FX. 34 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, really good. 35 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: Thirty six is the number. I'm sure that's probably circled somewhere. 36 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,959 Speaker 1: Thirty six Emmy Awards this past year. Did I get 37 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: is that the number right for thirty six Emmy's leading, 38 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: leading the industry for the first time, elbowing past few 39 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: other brands you might have heard of to lead the 40 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: industry for the first time. That was a That was 41 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: an enormous accomplishment, an enormous, enormous long haul for your team, 42 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: not just one year but for many years. But and 43 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: symbolic in a way, but it must be. It must 44 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: after after this year and the reinvention that we're going 45 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: to talk about over the last five years since FX 46 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: came under the under the excuse me, under the umbrella 47 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: of the Walt Disney Company, a little deal you all 48 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: might have heard something about we're going to talk about that, 49 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: but it just the symbolic victory at the end of 50 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: this year, having the Emmys and so many shows just 51 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: really click. And I want to put in a plug 52 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: for the current show that I'm one episode in. I'm 53 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: going to spend some quality time with it over the weekend. 54 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: Say Nothing is A is the latest entry in your 55 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: list of really really distinctive and compelling dramas. So so 56 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: just congratulations on a fantastic year. 57 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Yeah, it look in some way 58 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 3: it was a proof of concept on a number of 59 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 3: different levels. I would say first for Disney, right because 60 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 3: they made a really bold choice to pivot, you know, 61 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 3: a century old company into streaming as a primary direct 62 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 3: to consumer business, and they beefed up in acquiring the 63 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 3: Fox assets, a whole bunch of other general entertainment assets 64 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 3: and tried to say, we want to be as excellent 65 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,799 Speaker 3: as everyone else in general entertainment, not just family and sports. 66 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 3: We're going to invest in curators, you know, people like 67 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,679 Speaker 3: Kevin Feige and Kathy Kennedy and the folks at Pixar, 68 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 3: and we joined that we think that we can make 69 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 3: we can compete with smaller units that do you know, 70 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 3: a modest amount of very heavily curated material. And then 71 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: they gave us the opportunity to make content for a 72 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 3: global streaming platform instead of a basic cable network, and 73 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 3: so that enabled a lot of things. But the question 74 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 3: of could you compete against trillion dollar companies or companies 75 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 3: that make you know, literally hundreds and hundreds of television 76 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 3: series and movies from a central centralized process was an 77 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 3: interesting challenge and I'm really proud we were we were 78 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 3: able to meet it, but also really happy for Disney. 79 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 3: I really, you know, they've been fantastic stewarts of our brand. 80 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 3: We probably exist today because they bought us, because it's 81 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 3: a basic cable network. I don't think I would be 82 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 3: sitting here. I don't think we would have been able 83 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 3: to make those shows. So, you know, I was glad 84 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 3: to be able to say, yeah, this is a good idea, 85 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 3: like all the things that you did to reorganize your company, 86 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 3: and you could see in the in the recent quarter 87 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 3: of the earnings call that took a while, but it's 88 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 3: really it's really paying off. 89 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: I was just going to say that that the reports 90 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: not only was it a very strong quarter, but the 91 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: green shoots going forward are very clear and the phrase 92 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: you use, proof of concept. This really does feel like 93 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: twenty four was the year when after all of the 94 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: disruptions that we all know about, starting with the acquisition 95 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, which took you know, over a year 96 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: to close, and then the pandemic and the strikes. We 97 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: all know the litany and wars and interests, right, we 98 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: all know the litany. It's a good reminder that nothing 99 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: happens quickly, but in five years time, as you get 100 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: to the end of twenty twenty four proof of concept 101 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: exactly in that deal. And so interesting because the acquisition 102 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: of FX, you know, Disney had never really played in 103 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: the waters of really premium TV, commercial free TV or 104 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: you know, largely commercial free TV, and you know, as 105 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: they've discussed and if you all have discussed it was 106 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: it was something of a leap for them to get 107 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: into you know, FX brand. Some of the content on 108 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: its face doesn't seem like it would fit neatly into 109 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 1: the Disney world. But as we know, that brand is 110 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: pretty expansive and includes includes a lot of you know, 111 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: includes a lot of a lot of lanes for content 112 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: to be produced. And it seems like that's been born 113 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: out from your experience. 114 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so so far. Look, I think there's 115 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 3: a fascinating set of questions unfolding right now with the 116 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 3: sort of scale of the Internet and network effects and 117 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 3: sort of again the scale these trillion other companies, which is, 118 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 3: you know, it is one brand, right, one singular brand. 119 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 3: Can it be all things to all people? Or do 120 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 3: you need a master brand? And then a set of 121 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 3: sub brands that have a greater level of more specific affinity, 122 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 3: right and Disney sort of right now going the route 123 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 3: of both. Right, Disney has a profound affinity within family 124 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 3: and theme parks and many other things, animated films and 125 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 3: kids television shows, But it's also working its way into 126 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 3: being a master brand that has all these other brands 127 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 3: Marveled and Star Wars and Hulu and FX underneath it. 128 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 3: And there are other companies that have dispensed with all 129 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 3: those sub rands. What I would say is that is 130 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 3: that I as a as an individual who leads a 131 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 3: group of people who need to pay attention to every 132 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 3: frame of every episode of television that we make, who 133 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 3: who work very very hard on every episode, There's just 134 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 3: a limited amount of attention we have, and so we 135 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 3: can only do a certain amount of storytelling. Otherwise you 136 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 3: don't have that level of curation and authority. Right, You can't. 137 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 3: You could. You can be an editor of variety. You 138 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 3: can't be an editor of all things for all people 139 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 3: at all times. And so back to the proof of concept, 140 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 3: I think the thing that was really satisfying for me 141 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 3: is the notion that you know, against much much larger 142 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 3: competitors spending much much more money and taking many many 143 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 3: more at bats, we were able to put that attention 144 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 3: in that focus and that curation of talent, because really, 145 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 3: we don't make these shows. The talent makes the shows 146 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 3: and prove that that can make an impact even in 147 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:03,719 Speaker 3: this kind of competitive marketplace. 148 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: The curation, the approach that your team, it really is 149 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: defying a lot of the kind of prevailing winds of 150 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: the trends. I spoke with some of your team the 151 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: other day and they were talking about we love pilots, 152 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: old fashioned pilots. There's a lot of there's a lot 153 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 1: of good there. So we'll talk a little bit more. 154 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: But since we are in a room full of business 155 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: managers and again we're we are so grateful for you 156 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: taking your time and your candor. I wanted to talk about, 157 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the the shorthand of the 158 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: transition to streaming, the major changes that we've seen in 159 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: the kind of fundamentals of how how Hollywood creatives and 160 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: networks and studios make money. All of that has prompted 161 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: and catalyzed a conversation within FX, within your production because 162 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 1: you do have a pretty robust FX productions unit, and 163 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: you've had to, you know, make some decisions and really 164 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: sort of think about what you are, what you are 165 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: presenting to the creative community, because you are competing with 166 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: companies and I think when you say trillion dollar balance sheets, 167 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: you're talking about the largest tech companies like the Amazons 168 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: and the facebooks and the Apples, which we'll talk a 169 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: little bit about that that influence. But can you talk 170 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: at a time when the whole notion of valuation of content, 171 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: which is the kind of crux of how how you 172 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: determine future future rights and profit streams. Can you just 173 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: talk in the big picture of as the world moved 174 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: more toward a cost plus model that has had a 175 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: big impact on creatives, how did you and your brain 176 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: trust sit and figure out a way that you could 177 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: present what you felt were very fair approaches to talent 178 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: but also preserved that notion of kind of swinging for 179 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: the fences, playing for the back end. I know that's 180 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: a big question. Yeah, but it's a room full of 181 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: business managers. 182 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 3: Twenty one minutes and thirty seconds left. I could spend 183 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 3: the next twenty one minutes answering that single question. Look, 184 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 3: we when I came to Fax this is twenty years 185 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 3: ago and started the studio, you know, we had a 186 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: fair amount of authority over the way we structured our deals, 187 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 3: and we really wanted to have an incentive structure where 188 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 3: there was a shared benefit, right, So there were some 189 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 3: very profitable shows. Maybe It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia would 190 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 3: be an example that came out of that where our partners, 191 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 3: our creative partners, have really done very well on that show. 192 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 3: But that was predicated on healthy markets. You had six 193 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 3: seven companies that were all, you know, of roughly comparable 194 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 3: size and scale, and who could all be frenemies and 195 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 3: deal with each other. You know, when you have trillion 196 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 3: dollar companies that could effectively, you know, afford to spend 197 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 3: billions of dollars uneconomically for a long period of time 198 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 3: for some other goal. Or you had a company like 199 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 3: Netflix that really came in and wanted to change the 200 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 3: ecosystem and hope to run away with it and even 201 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 3: now has one hundred million more subscribers than its nearest 202 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 3: competitor globally. That really distorts the market. So unfortunately, when 203 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,719 Speaker 3: they went to a cost plus model, we really had 204 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 3: no choice. So the way we approached that is we 205 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 3: basically took all and look, there's been a lot of 206 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 3: I think valid criticisms of it in the sense that 207 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 3: it's you know it's been it's but we took the 208 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 3: entire pool of dollars that have been paid out over 209 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 3: magr across a very wide bucket of programming at that 210 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 3: time when we built it, it was inside Fox. We took 211 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 3: all that money, we said, well, how would we allocated 212 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 3: through a fixed fee model basically based on and you know, 213 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:42,599 Speaker 3: we looked at everything we could, look at ratings, longevity awards, 214 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 3: all the things that we thought created valuation. We just 215 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 3: reallocated it across multiple different points. Of course, that was 216 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 3: all before the strike eliminated packaging, right, which was not 217 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 3: this strike, but the strike before this strike, or the 218 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 3: labor action before this strike. So it's just very complicated, 219 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 3: and frankly, I don't love where we are in the 220 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 3: sense that I think the healthiest relationship between creatives and 221 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 3: distributors or studios is one in which you know, there's 222 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 3: really a shared ownership. But unfortunately, you can't be in 223 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 3: a situation where you have to sell your content to 224 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 3: trillion dollar competitors, or competitors they are trying to take 225 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 3: over the whole market and they don't have to sell 226 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 3: their content to you. You can't do that, right, So, 227 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 3: once the representative community went down the cost plus model, 228 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 3: and we didn't introduce that model. I think that there 229 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 3: was nowhere for it to end up where we are now. 230 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 3: And look, I hope ultimately you know, it's going to 231 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 3: take a long time further to be a stabilization in 232 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 3: the business where there might be four or five six 233 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 3: competitors who are in it for the long haul. We 234 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 3: can all look at each other and say, Okay, we're 235 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 3: going to be around twenty thirty, forty years and maybe 236 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 3: we can be a little bit more aggressive about selling 237 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 3: to each other. Right now, selling is a bit of 238 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 3: a one way street, right in other words, you know 239 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 3: Netflix or sometimes Amazon or who who are buying? But 240 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 3: most of our competitors are selling, you know, other than 241 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 3: to themselves. They're not buyers. 242 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: And have you in your experience, you know a lot 243 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: of people are talking about the need to kind of 244 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: realign everybody's incentives. Have you found I mean, obviously, I 245 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: know you know you and your team are so such 246 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: a track record of incredible artistic integrity and working with people. 247 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: But at the same time, as we've discussed people, do 248 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: you know economic incentive is a driver for a reason? 249 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: Have you found that in talking to people very candidly 250 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: about how you know, how you are doing things and 251 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: how how you are looking at that allocation that that 252 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: is a you know, that is a selling point for effects. 253 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: Do you feel like people feel like there's a transparency 254 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: there that they can that they can appreciate. 255 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 3: I don't think anywhere in the industry right now there's 256 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 3: my transparency as talent wants and their representatives want. In fairness, 257 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 3: I just don't think anybody has achieved that. And I 258 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 3: can tell you that we always try to be fair 259 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 3: because fundamentally, where we recognize that we don't make television 260 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 3: shows right, we need people to make television shows. But 261 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 3: would I would say that I'm not even sure that 262 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 3: the industry right now is well organized to understand how 263 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 3: to unlock long term asset value right in the sense 264 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 3: that when you look at the consumption of television or film, 265 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 3: an enormous amount of it is essentially library, right. But 266 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 3: if you look at what the current investment is designed 267 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 3: to create, it's not long term library neither is it 268 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 3: in the main snow White and the Seven Dwarves or 269 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 3: you know, Pinocchio or The Lion King or something that's 270 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 3: going to last as a movie for twenty thirty forty 271 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 3: fifty years, nor is it one hundred two hundred, three 272 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 3: hundred four hundred. 273 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: Episodes of fifteen season show. 274 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 3: Right, I'm not sure the industry even knows how to 275 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 3: really fully recognize that long term value. So there's a 276 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 3: misalignment in my view. I mean, it's something I work 277 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 3: on every day to try to create alignment. But right 278 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 3: now there's a little bit of a misalignment because when 279 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 3: you go to a cost plus model, everything starts really expensively. Right. Obviously, 280 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 3: just the cost of making television has radically transformed in 281 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 3: the twenty years I've been doing this, So you start 282 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 3: at a very expensive level and very very few shows 283 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 3: end up making it to the point where they really 284 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 3: are going to matriculate into being long term assets in 285 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 3: library and for me, the inability to do that actually 286 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 3: damages a lot of value creation for the creative community, right, 287 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 3: because essentially there's only a limited amount of value you 288 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 3: can get out of a one off project. 289 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: You don't have the economic events of syndication of international 290 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: that's right. 291 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 3: And you know, when we, for example, we make Showgun, 292 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 3: I mean, if you can make a show for you know, 293 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 3: a couple hundred million dollars. The level of global performance 294 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 3: you have to create just to make one more season 295 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 3: is so extraordinary that very very few shows are ever 296 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 3: going to make it through that filter. So it's fantastic 297 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 3: from my standpoint that we were able to recreate Fields 298 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 3: or Pan and spend the kind of money and do 299 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 3: the kind of detail work that I would love to 300 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 3: do and never could without a global streaming platform. But 301 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 3: it's going to be you know, we're working on the 302 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 3: second season now, that's going to be so rare. How 303 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 3: do we create a system where it's actually a more 304 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 3: normal process for something to go multiple different seasons? And 305 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 3: I don't just mean two or three. I mean we 306 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 3: need we need sitcoms and procedurals and the kinds of 307 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 3: things that people are still actually watching inside these streaming systems. 308 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 3: I look at the data and I know what people 309 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 3: are watching, and they're watching a lot of the output 310 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 3: of this industry back from an era when we had 311 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 3: a profit participation model and we had people incentivized to 312 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 3: keep working on one television show year after year after 313 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 3: year and make hundreds and hundreds of episodes, And you know, 314 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 3: it's a challenge figuring out how to rebuild that model 315 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 3: inside a new entire ecosystem right now. But I think 316 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 3: the audiences tell us that that's television. That's something they 317 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 3: really want from television. I don't think we're very good 318 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 3: at giving it to them right now. 319 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more from 320 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: FX Chairman John Landgraf. 321 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 2: Did you know that seven to ten consumers crave more authentic, 322 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 2: culturally diverse stories and media. That's just one of the 323 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 2: insights Amazon Ads uncovered, and it's from ads to Zeitgeist research. 324 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 2: The streaming revolution has transformed how we access entertainment, connecting 325 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 2: viewers and listeners to content from every corner of the globe. 326 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 2: But what does this mean for brands? A new VIP report, 327 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 2: Entertainment Everywhere, builds on the Amazon Ads research to explore 328 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 2: this fascinating inner section of culture, entertainment and advertising. Visit 329 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: Variety dot com slash vip for more information. 330 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: And we're back with more from FX Chairman John Landgraft. 331 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: I think you're about to get an amen from this 332 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: crowd here. But and and interesting that uh that you 333 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: know with it? So you talked about a sort of 334 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: a system and a process that came together under under 335 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: Fox prior to the Disney Transit acquisition. Was that a 336 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: tough call with Disney business affairs when you explain like, 337 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: this is how we work and this is how we 338 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: like to you know, negotiate and deal with our creative partners. 339 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: Was that Was that a radical difference from what they 340 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: had from their approach? It was? 341 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 3: It was it was very different. And look, the whole 342 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 3: industry is going through just wrenching changes right now. But 343 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 3: I would say that in essence when when all of 344 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 3: us from Fox came over and most you know, like 345 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 3: half our colleagues in side Disney Entertainment or Disney colleagues, 346 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 3: formerly Disney colleagues, but it was Peter Rice and Dana 347 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 3: Walden and I and Eric Streyer who came over and 348 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 3: ultimately Peter ended up running that group and now Dana 349 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 3: runs that group. So you know, we we took solutions 350 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 3: from the existing system, but we brought a lot of 351 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 3: solutions with us. But you know, I would say, I mean, 352 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 3: is anybody fully satisfied with the way the system works 353 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 3: right now? I don't know who that person is. That's 354 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 3: probably nobody in this take a pole here in Nobody 355 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 3: in this room. But unfortunately we're in this period of 356 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 3: transition when again I don't think the market has settled 357 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 3: into a stable number of profitable companies. And on the 358 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 3: one hand, when you have companies that are in the 359 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 3: business of making television shows where that's not their primary business, 360 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 3: it's good on one level because it brings extra source 361 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 3: of capital in and it creates work and it creates jobs. 362 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 3: But on the other hand, what I look at is, Okay, 363 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 3: if the if the if the value as recognized by 364 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 3: the markets, is created by incremental subscribers, not by the 365 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 3: profitability of the content that generates incremental subscribers, then the 366 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 3: then the value is locked in a value change, just 367 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 3: similarly if the contents designed to market a service or 368 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 3: a or a device. So what I miss, what I 369 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 3: really miss, is a direct relationship between the actual thing 370 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 3: that was made with us, our studio, the creators, and 371 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 3: the actual value. But now these these everything that that 372 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 3: our creative people do is locked inside these giant, giant systems. 373 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: Right. 374 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 3: That's true for music as well as for television. And 375 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 3: you you will have those rare you know, tailor swifts 376 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 3: who can sort of overcome the long tail of an 377 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 3: entire system. But I think it's more difficult frankly, you know, 378 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 3: and there's a there's a very very long tail, but 379 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 3: it's people in the in the in the you know, 380 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 3: the very very upper middle and the very and the 381 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 3: bottom top. I think that we're struggling to sort of 382 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 3: unlock the full value of what they're doing right now. 383 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 3: And I want to because ultimately that's my business is finding, frankly, 384 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 3: the next generation of really talented creators and figuring out 385 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 3: how to let them do their work, and then figuring 386 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 3: out how to pay them and keep them. Almost all 387 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 3: of FX's successes, all the way back to its beginning, 388 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 3: we're from really new creators or new showrunners. We've never 389 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 3: been someone who chased after and bought talent from our competitors. 390 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 3: We've always developed it internally. 391 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: You you know a show runner, an unproven showrunner and 392 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: Sean Ryan for the shield A. You know a promising 393 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: young talent in Ryan Murphy for Niptuck. 394 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 3: The list goes on his first big hit, or justin Marx. 395 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 3: You know who did show Gun, did show Store or 396 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 3: who made the Bear. These are all people that are 397 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 3: maybe brand names in our industry now, but they weren't 398 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 3: before they did this. 399 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,479 Speaker 1: Let me ask you, as as we want to make 400 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: sure we a couple of different topics, let me ask 401 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: you about the Showgun was such a success for you? 402 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: Like you said, Showgun really seemed to me from my perspective, 403 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: was showed that FX could really settle into the Disney 404 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: system and really benefit from the different the different levers 405 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: that Disney can push to get content out there. What 406 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 1: was it and Showgun got such a as I understand, 407 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: a big ride on Disney plus in outside of the US. 408 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: What was it like for you to have that kind 409 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: of direct like being able to see I would imagine 410 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: to get a good visibility about how people in other 411 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: markets in Europe and Asia and other places were watching, 412 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: you know, what their cadence of watching. What was there 413 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: learnings from being able to see Showgun travel around the world? 414 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 3: Well, I guess there were learnings from watching what traveled 415 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 3: around the world before Showgun on the Disney system. And 416 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 3: what you could see is that you know, Marvel and 417 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 3: Star Wars and some animated films there there there are 418 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 3: there is a kind of storytelling that really travels globally, right, 419 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 3: It's sort of transcends local on some level. It's it's 420 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 3: it's fairly universal, and it seemed obvious to me that 421 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 3: that Dana Walden's unit, you know, Fax needed to figure 422 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 3: out how to tap into that, and so how do 423 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 3: you do that? Obviously everyone at that time was chasing 424 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 3: after the successive Game of Thrones, which had done so 425 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 3: well for HBO. For me, anyway, I felt like we 426 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 3: had you have to have to do something different to 427 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 3: try to achieve the same outcomes. So I thought that 428 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 3: that the sort of intense realism of medieval Japan would 429 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 3: would be a more interesting way of going at it 430 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 3: then another version of a constructed fantasy world. Not that 431 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 3: there's anything wrong with that. I just felt like the 432 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 3: audience had been given a lot of that. Also, Disney 433 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 3: had never really committed its full sort of top level 434 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 3: synergy marketing to a an adult title, to a to 435 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 3: a general entertainment or a TVM A title, but they 436 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 3: really needed it, and it was amazing when you see 437 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 3: that machine get in gear. Both domestically, I mean, even 438 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 3: Showgun still doesn't get the full level of support that 439 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 3: a G rated or maybe PG rated thing. For a 440 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,479 Speaker 3: lot of spaces in the parks that are not going 441 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 3: to promote, you know, beheadings in medieval. 442 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: Japan, plushy samurai toy exactly. 443 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 3: But everything other than the fully family space has got 444 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 3: on board, and it's an incredible marketing machine. It's it's 445 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 3: really extraordinary. So we just basically had to make it. 446 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 3: We had to get it done really early, serve it 447 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 3: up and say, you know, what do you think? And 448 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 3: then to answer your question, I mean watching something cross 449 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 3: you know, twenty percent reach everywhere on Earth that Disney operates, 450 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 3: which is most countries. Now it's not China. It didn't 451 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 3: do twenty percent share in India, but in almost every 452 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 3: territory it did to twenty percent, and that was just 453 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 3: an extraordinary thing, which again I come from an American 454 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 3: basic cable network, so there have been no to even 455 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 3: attempt that before Disney bought us. So it was an 456 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 3: exciting thing to try. And it was equal parts relief 457 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 3: and exhilaration that it that it worked, because we'd bet 458 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 3: the farm on it. 459 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, absolutely, and I think it was I think 460 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: in a sense of a rising tide does help lift 461 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: all boats. I really, I really think that to be 462 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: able to show especially I mean, Shogun isn't fully new 463 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: IP but you took you know, you were it was 464 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: not Richard Chamberlain back in that you know, the NBC miniseries. 465 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: I have just completely dated myself because very few people. 466 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 1: But but it really was. It was, as you say, 467 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: it was a sort of a triumph for adult drama content. 468 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: That wasn't that that was rooted. It was you know, 469 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 1: four hundred, five hundred years ago, but still rooted in 470 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: real life. And you know, planet Earth not not with 471 00:26:54,160 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: any supernatural powers. Excuse me? And can you talk about 472 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: because again we're talking about people that are in the 473 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: nitty gritty of deals with You went into Showgun thinking 474 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: it would be a standalone piece, but you left a 475 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: small door open for the potential for Can you talk 476 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: about the challenges and something like that. It sounds like 477 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: you built in a slight exit ramp if you did 478 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: want to, if you did want to bring it back. 479 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: But is that is that a is that construct to 480 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: be whether it's limited or recurring? Is that a challenge 481 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 1: as well in those kind of the licensing regimen right now? 482 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's it's very difficult. And you know we 483 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 3: had there, we had justin Marks and Rachel Kondo and 484 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 3: the writer's work on a potential idea for subsequent season's story. 485 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 3: It came in about six months before the show premiere. Knows, 486 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,199 Speaker 3: knowing how well the show would have to do for 487 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 3: it to even be a possibility, I thought, oh, this 488 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 3: will never happen. So I put in a drawer and 489 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 3: then I kind of sheepishly took it out after the 490 00:27:58,440 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 3: show premiere and I was like, oh, this is this 491 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 3: is pretty good. But I would say one thing, I 492 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 3: bet a lot of the more experienced people in this 493 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 3: room recognizes every time you're having an amazing year and 494 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 3: you're really happy about it, and then there's part part 495 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 3: of the back of your mind that's thinking, yeah, but 496 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 3: I'm going to be retracing this year next year, and 497 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 3: my clients are expect the same performance next year that 498 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 3: they got this year, comps exactly. And so it's thrilling 499 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 3: when you have something. But now we've got to do 500 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 3: a second season, and we don't have James Colvell's book, 501 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 3: and so we spend you know, every day working on 502 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 3: the intense challenge of trying to lay out ten episodes 503 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 3: of television that don't have all the brilliance of clavel. 504 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 3: So all I will say is you know, what have 505 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 3: you done for me lately? Doesn't just appertain to business managers, 506 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 3: it also works for programmers, and you know you roll 507 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 3: up your sleeves, get back to work and try to 508 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 3: figure out how to do it again. 509 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, a high class problem. 510 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 511 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: What what we've talked about, We've talked about some of 512 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: the adjita in the system. What right now? Would you say, 513 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: especially as you you know it, FX had, like every 514 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: other network on the planet, had a couple of rocky years, 515 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: But twenty twenty four really seems like has been a 516 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: banner year for you. As you go into twenty twenty five. What, 517 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: whether it's programming, whether it's you know, developments within Disney, 518 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: what gives you hope for twenty twenty five? 519 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 3: Well, I'm I'm glad the film business is going to 520 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 3: be back to a normal cadence. You know, I wish 521 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 3: every participant in the market. We're committed to theatrical release 522 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 3: as Disney as I can tell you. As a licenser 523 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 3: of films, for many years, FX was the top basic 524 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 3: cable licenser. We didn't license films that weren't released theatrically. 525 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 3: Never because theatrical release in the marketing that goes with 526 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 3: it creates a long tail of value and we wanted 527 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 3: to buy that release and the value that release in 528 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 3: that marketing. And I'm glad that there are many companies 529 00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 3: that are that are working on it. But I still 530 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 3: think are theatrical distribution businesses really challenged, right? And I 531 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 3: don't want to see it a road because I think 532 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 3: there is something extraordinary created in the relationship between audiences 533 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 3: and stars and audiences and storytellers with that big screen. 534 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 3: Even though I've never worked in that business, I still 535 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,479 Speaker 3: think it's a really important part of the value change. 536 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 3: And you know what I can say is I think 537 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 3: I think you see the industry going through really big reckoning. 538 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 3: I think it I think it overinvested in almost everything, right, 539 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 3: because you had you know, seven market participants chasing after 540 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 3: one pool of subscribers. Now it's going to have to 541 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 3: figure out which of the you know, how to have 542 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 3: enough scale each of the companies can have enough scale 543 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 3: to have profitability. And then inside those scaled companies, they're 544 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 3: going to get more efficient at at figuring out what 545 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 3: they need and what they don't need. Right, So, unfortunately 546 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 3: it's going to be lumpy. I think for a little while, 547 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 3: because I don't think the industry is really found And 548 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 3: it's fascinating to me having come in with three broadcast 549 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 3: networks and then there were four once Fox that you know, 550 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 3: I think we're probably heading towards a four or five 551 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 3: participant in marketplace that seems to be, you know, where 552 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 3: things naturally gravitate. But you know, just remember that each 553 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 3: of those broadcast networks got very efficient at knowing exactly 554 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 3: what it needed to compete in that marketplace. Now, I 555 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 3: think we could be a decade away from a situation 556 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 3: where you not only have rationalized the number of participants, 557 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 3: they're all profitable, they've rationalized their slates inside that. But unfortunately, 558 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 3: I think we're going to be in that mode for 559 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 3: quite some time. And for me, I guess the challenge 560 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 3: has always been, Okay, well, you know, businesses go through 561 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 3: cycles and they change at the end of the day. 562 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 3: Though a healthy ecosystem needs it needs innovation, right Like 563 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 3: if you just like, there's always going to be a 564 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 3: certain amount of our industry that's just chasing after prior 565 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 3: success and trying to clone it and replicate it. 566 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: Right, that's television being the sincerest form of flattery. 567 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 3: Right exactly, imitation being the sinceres form of flattery, but 568 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 3: needs innovation, right, somebody needs to come along and decide 569 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 3: to make Titanic or Avatar or go back to Walt 570 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 3: Disney and what he did, or you know, the mc 571 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 3: new or. 572 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: It's always sunny in Philadelphia on a shoestring budget that 573 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: is probably less than the valet parking fees that will 574 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: be assessed here. 575 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 3: So what excites me is not being a part of 576 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 3: the you know, at the top of the apex of 577 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 3: the chain. And what excites me is having a vibrant, 578 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 3: modest sized business whose job it is to innovate, right, 579 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 3: Because what I get excited about is I get excited 580 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 3: about the next creative generation or the or the untapped 581 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 3: creative genius or resource and how do we unlock that 582 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 3: person's brilliance, how do we make something great? And So 583 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 3: what FX is now, after you know, a lot of tumult, 584 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 3: a lot of change, is it's a relatively modest sized 585 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 3: brand inside a very very large global streaming service. You know, 586 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 3: we're meant to make you know, somewhere around fifteen shows 587 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 3: a year, which means at any given time will probably 588 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 3: have more like twenty because they don't all recur annually. 589 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,239 Speaker 3: That's not that's not a lot of shows compared to 590 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 3: a market that's pulling out four hundred and five hundred shows. 591 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 3: But the question is can we be nimble enough and 592 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 3: innovative enough creatively, And that's where we need the talent. Like, 593 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 3: we're not in it for the for to take the 594 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 3: algorithm and you know, and and basically replicate a whole 595 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 3: bunch of successes. We're in it for the out of 596 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 3: the box extraordinary you know, innovation. That is the bear. 597 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 3: And I don't know where that I never know where 598 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 3: that's going to come from. It's going to come out 599 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 3: of nowhere, and it's and it's going to either be 600 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 3: one of your existing clients or it's going to be 601 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 3: somebody that one of you is going to want to 602 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 3: work with for the rest of their lives. 603 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: Right. 604 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 3: And that's that's the magic of this industry that never 605 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:52,959 Speaker 3: changes from my standpoint. 606 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: That's the meritocracy of ideas. That's absolutely true. It's absolutely true. Well, John, 607 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: we are so grateful to you for taking the time 608 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: out to speak with us and kind of walk us 609 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: through a lot of these things. I have a whole 610 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: long list of other questions for you. But I think 611 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: if we just leave with one thing at curation, Curation, curation, 612 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: the FX's investment in that brand all those years, certainly 613 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: you know, even predating you, it's so clear that is 614 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: that all of that is paying off right now. It's 615 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: in droves that has truly put you in a class 616 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:24,240 Speaker 1: by yourself. 617 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 3: I think it's tempting to chase the now, to chase 618 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,760 Speaker 3: the quarterly results. We all have to, we do have accountability. 619 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 3: But I think the best of us, if we're fortunate 620 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,399 Speaker 3: enough to have some longevity, also think about the year, 621 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,760 Speaker 3: the decade, or even beyond that and try to build 622 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 3: long term value. And you know, you've got to be 623 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 3: a little bit lucky sometimes too, and that doesn't suck. Yeah. 624 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: I couldn't end it on a better not than that. John, 625 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you so much, Thank you, thanks for listening. 626 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 1: Be sure to leave us a review at Apple Podcasts 627 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 1: or Amazon Music. We love to hear from listeners. Please 628 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: go to Variety dot com and sign up for the 629 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,919 Speaker 1: free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't forget to tune 630 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: in next week for another episode of Strictly Business.