1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Exhimation. That's a word you 2 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: don't hear very often, to exhume a body and other 3 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: words and regular people talk dig up a dead body. 4 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: That's what we're talking about in South Carolina. And of 5 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: course the Alex and Murdoid case. He's so called legal titan. 6 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: You know the thing about him. There are a lot 7 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: of dead bodies connected to him and his family, and 8 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: even now the murders of his wife Maggie and son 9 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: Paul remain unsolved as the body of his former housekeeper 10 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: is set to be dug up. I'm talking about fifty 11 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: seven year old Gloria Sadderfield. But why what do authority sled, 12 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: specifically South Carolina Law Enforcement Division? What do they hope 13 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: to gain by digging up this beloved mother. I'm Nancy Grace. 14 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 15 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and serious XM one eleven. First 16 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to this our friends at 17 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: w LTx. The former housekeeper of Alec Murdoch died after 18 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: allegedly falling in the Murdoch home in twenty eighteen. But 19 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: now the State Law Enforcement Division says it just got 20 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: permission to exhume her remains. Soled says the process to 21 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: dig up Gloria's Sadderfield's body is complex and will likely 22 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: take weeks. This investigation is still ongoing. The housekeeper who 23 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: died after falling on stairs outside the home of once 24 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: prominent South Carolina attorney Alec Murdoch is set to be exhumed. 25 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: South Carolina authorities say they will recover and examine the 26 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: body of Gloria Sadderfield in the coming weeks. It's part 27 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: of the ongoing investigation into her death four years ago. 28 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: The original police report called Gloria Centerfield's death natural and 29 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: no autopsy was performed. This is the latest twist in 30 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: a Southern saga involving a series of deaths of individuals 31 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: close to Murdoch in multiple indictments against the lawyer for 32 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: financial fraud. Former South Carolina Attorney General Charlie Condon telling 33 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: NBC News after Murdoch's arrest in the fall, it's just 34 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: very difficult to see how he would not be serving 35 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: a very long prison sentence. You know, it took moving 36 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: a mountain to get any activity on this case. Gloria 37 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: Centerfield now dead and barry for four years plus and 38 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: now something's being done about it. You originally were hearing 39 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: our friends over at WLTX, but then you heard from 40 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 1: our friend Von Hilliard at NBC with me an all 41 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: star panel of guests to make sense of what we 42 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: know right now again, I mean, NC Grace, this is 43 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Fox 44 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: Nation and series XM one eleven. You know it kind 45 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: of makes you think that there's a rich man's justice. Okay, 46 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: I don't like that because this guy, Alex Murdog was 47 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: one of a dynasty of so called legal titans. This 48 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: is the deal. His dad, his grandfather, I don't know 49 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: how far it goes back. Have been the prosecutors in 50 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: that jurisdiction then, which I do not understand how this 51 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: was allowed. They had a civil law firm as well, 52 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: so how did that work? They would prosecute a case 53 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: for crime victims and then somehow get their hands in 54 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: the victims pockets and represent them in civil court and 55 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: take a cut of the winnings. It's just, you know, 56 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: it stinks, And all this discussion about millions of dollars 57 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: Alex Murdog has managed to siphon, including the money from 58 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: Gloria Satterfield's insurance settlement four million dollars, the housekeeper that 59 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: failed down the steps four million dollars win in his pocket? 60 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: What judge signed off on all of that? Millions and 61 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: millions of dollars in dirty money again, our all star 62 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: panel joining us first of all, Susan Williams, South Carolina 63 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, and you can find her 64 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: at s Williams dash Law dot net. Karen Stark where 65 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: noown psychologists, joining us out of New York. You can 66 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: find her at Karen Stark dot com. Karen with a See, 67 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My 68 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon and Starvin You hit series Bodybags with 69 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan on iHeart. Steve Helling joining me senior writer, 70 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: People dot com and special guests Joining us today, Skip Hobland, 71 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:06,559 Speaker 1: the founder Scwatchdog dot com. Mmmm, He's got his eyes 72 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: on corruption all across South Carolina. First of you. Steve Helling, 73 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: my longtime friend and colleague. Can find him on Twitter 74 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: at Steve Helling and author of Outrage the Casey Anthony's Story. 75 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,119 Speaker 1: That's a story that never gets old. Steve Helling, Steve, 76 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I mean, now we 77 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: are hearing that the body of Gloria Satterfield is going 78 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: to be exhumed. What happened. I mean, that was what 79 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: we were hoping was going to happen. We thought that 80 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: was going to happen. But we had, you know, the 81 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: authority for you to get the family's permission, which the 82 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: family has happily done. So yes, it could take it 83 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: could take weeks. But they're going to exhume the body 84 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: and they're going to see if there's anything that's fishy 85 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: there based on you know, this slip and fall accident 86 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: that happened, you know a few years ago, you know, 87 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: right off at the gate Jess goot Morgan, death investigator. 88 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: This stinks a mile away because even if everything we've 89 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: been told is true, it's still wrong. And you know 90 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: why you don't fall down steep outdoor steps and die 91 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: and that be called natural cause of death. That's at 92 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: the very least an accident paired with Alex Burlogu pocketing 93 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: four million dollars of life insurance policy on his maid. Seriously, 94 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: nobody saw a red flag waving. You know, you might 95 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: as well get the weekend, which to the west to 96 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: put murdog is stealing across the sky. For Pete's sake, 97 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: what has it taken that jurisdiction? You know when when 98 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: Miss Sadderfield rolled into the hospital, when they took her there, 99 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: you know, they knew that she had sustained trauma, Nancy, 100 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: trauma is not natural. As a matter of fact. Under 101 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 1: South Carolina's statue, if somebody dies as a result of violence, 102 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: now it does necessarily mean homicidal violence. It just means 103 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: violence that can be an accident. That death has to 104 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: be reported to the corner in this case. Okay, what wait, wait, wait, 105 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: you got me drinking on the fire hygien again too much. 106 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: Defase death by violence, you mean like a violent fall 107 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: down the steps you're in, Go ahead, It's an unnatural event. 108 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: I think people have floated things like you know, dogs 109 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: getting in our way, trips over dogs, all of this 110 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: kind of thing like this. At the you know, at 111 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: the close, you have to have another set of eyes 112 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: on this. I don't care how long the individual has 113 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: been in the hospital. I've participated in autopsies, Nancy, where 114 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,239 Speaker 1: people have been in an ICU for up to three years. 115 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: In an unconscious state, but they arrived as a result 116 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: of a violent act. We still have to document that. 117 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: And they're gonna have a lot to work with here 118 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: because hopefully they did mriyes and cts and all those 119 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: sorts of things while she was in the hospital and 120 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: then when when they do finally get her body, Nancy, 121 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: the thing about an eximation, a thing about trauma is 122 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: it doesn't go. Can let me ask you something just 123 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: got Morgan with me, Professor Forensics. I want you to 124 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: hear something in our cut one. This is Attorney Eric 125 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: Bland and he is talking to anchor Cody Alcorn on 126 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: Fox Carolina. Listen to what we learn. Murdoch said. At 127 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: the funeral, Alex went to the family and said, look, 128 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: you know, I you know, I feel horrible. My dogs 129 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: were the cause of your mom falling and ultimately she 130 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: died because of that. And I'm gonna, you know, take 131 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: the boys, who are the only heirs she died intestate, 132 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: so under South Carolina law, they're the only heirs. I'm 133 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: going to take him to a lawyer, I know, and 134 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: that lawyer is going to make claims against me for 135 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: the death your mother called wrongful death and a survival claim. 136 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: Could she survived three weeks? And I'm going to turn 137 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: them over to all my insurance companies. And you know, 138 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest, and it's our fault. You know, 139 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 1: the dogs should not have been unruly and they shouldn't 140 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: have been altogether like that too, you know, knock your 141 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: mother over and I'm going to admit liability. Okay, where 142 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: you're hearing the lawyer Eric Bland recounting Murdog's statements at 143 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: Miss Satterfield's funeral. Now, that's the first we've heard Alex 144 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: Murdog stating that Gloria Centerfield is dead because of a dog. 145 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: I mean, Karen Stark blaming it on the dog. I 146 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: thought we only you only did that when your homework 147 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: went missing. Yeah, the whole story doesn't make a lot 148 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 1: of the dog, did it do? It's a dog story, 149 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: right when you think about you know, how many people 150 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: trip over a dog and die and loved test statistics 151 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: on that trip over a dog and die? You know, 152 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: you know what our minds you have, Karen start how 153 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: many cases have we covered where a child, an infant, 154 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: is just beaten to death and and the father goes, oh, 155 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: she fell out of the high chair, or she fell 156 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: off the diaper changing table. You fall three feet and 157 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: you're dead. This is like the same thing here. She 158 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: tripped over the dog and she's dead. That sounds very 159 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: fantastical to me. Karon's stark. I agree, Nancy just doesn't 160 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: make a lot of sense. I mean, I have dog boy. 161 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: Do you you know? They're this big and they sound 162 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 1: like they're on a like a microphone. They're like each 163 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: one is like five pounds of lung. But how you 164 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: haven't tripped over those dogs and broken your foot I 165 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: don't know, but I don't think you would die because 166 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: but apparently skip Hogeland joining me out of South Carolina, 167 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: the founder of scwatchdog dot Com. I guess that's okay 168 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: in that jurisdiction for a woman to a young woman. 169 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: She's fifty seven years old, she's got her whole life 170 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: in front of her, she said, the prime of her life, 171 00:10:55,800 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: and she's bleeding profusely from the head and the left, 172 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: and somebody signed off that that was unnatural cause of death. Nancy, 173 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: I hope I'm the most outspoken person here today. I 174 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: got a real simple take on this. My guess is 175 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: these is the is the murder cases will never be 176 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: solved until Alex Murdock is sentenced to life in prison. 177 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: If he in fact committed these murders, which seems highly likely, 178 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 1: why would he confess if he knows he's gonna walk 179 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: free in five to ten five to ten years, So 180 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: we have to who knows where this is gonna end up. 181 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: But I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna I'm gonna speak real, frank, 182 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: if you in South Carolina can be trusted from the 183 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: bottom to the top. South Carolina watchdog dot Com has 184 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: called judges line committee of mouthfeasance, called the FBI the 185 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: Attorney General line, I arrest dr non enforcing tact evasion, 186 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: nonprofit violations. You tend to lose faith in our legal 187 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: system and it's just become it's become so bad. And 188 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: the other thing is with the with the judge mouthfeasance. 189 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: This is an area of law that South Carolina's fear 190 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: because it puts them into position where they may be 191 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: accusing a judge. You will later hear their other cases. Well, 192 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 1: my question is about the cause of death. How can 193 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: you be bleeding from your ear and your head profusely 194 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: mumbling just confused, can't stand up, you die. How can 195 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: that possibly be passed off as natural causes like you 196 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: die of a heart attack or you die in your 197 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: sleep at age ninety nine? How can that be. I've 198 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: never heard of that before. It's impossible. I don't believe it. 199 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: I mean, what about it, Joe Scott, It's totally follow 200 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: up always skip Holand is saying, if you haven't been 201 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: in the criminal business, Jo Scott, you may not. Well 202 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: you shouldn't know. I hope you don't know that. There 203 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: are X number of causes of death. You've got homicide, 204 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: You've got natural causes like you die of pneumonia. You've 205 00:12:53,840 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 1: got did I say accident? Accident, homicide, natural determined, undetermined, 206 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: and suicide, thank you, suicide. That's it. Those are the choices. 207 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: Those are the five choices. Nothing else under cause of death. 208 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: Then you got matter of death. For instance, I could 209 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: say just got more gun died of homicide and that 210 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: would be the cause of death. The manner of death 211 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 1: would be, let's just pretend gunshot one, all right, So 212 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: there's an MD in a cod No, you're right, there's 213 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: five five manners. And I tell everybody that I teach 214 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: because this is specifically what I teach that there is 215 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: an umbrella of death. Oh, that sounds like a great book. 216 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: It's homicide, homicide, natural, unexplained or undetermined, suicide, accidental. And 217 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: so you've got these five and then everything else, all 218 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: of the causes, gunshot one, cancer, anything, it'll fall beneath 219 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: one of those categories under that umbrella. So I don't 220 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: totally see bass Ackwards go ahead, and there's no way 221 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: you can you can sell this to anybody. Well, somebody 222 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: bought it. Somebody bought it. She's bleeding from her ear 223 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: in profusely out of her head, and somebody okayed and 224 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: signed off natural causes like she died in her sleep. Okay, guys, 225 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: where does it all start? And you know, Susan Williams 226 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: that are in South Carolina trial lawyer, former prosecutor Susan Williams. 227 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: I love nothing more than playing a nine one one call, 228 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: preferably in my opening statement. But to do that, you 229 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: have to have emotional lemonye and you've got to get 230 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: it introduced into evidence, because anything the jury sees or 231 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: hears or touches has to be admitted into evidence, and 232 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: you normally do that through a witness, so it's kind 233 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: of hard to get one in in an opening statement. 234 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: Why is it so powerful, Susan Williams, You're a veteran 235 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: trial lawyer to play that nine one one call in 236 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: front of a jury. Explain, Nancy. It's because it's a 237 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: snapshot of exactly is going on at that moment in 238 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: that particular location, and there's really nothing else that can 239 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: put you at the seam like that, like a no 240 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: one one't call. Yeah, I love him, and that is 241 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: why I'm gonna play it for your right now. Susan Williams. 242 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: Take a listen to I wur cut a. Remember Maggie Murdog, 243 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: the wife who is now dead. She and her son 244 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: Paul shot dead in the same place. They're all dying 245 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: around Alex Murdog's mansion and hunting a lodge. Take a 246 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: listen to the nine on one call about Glorious Sadterfield's 247 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: death four one four seven Murdie Roads. I'm sorry, what's 248 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: going on there? My housekeeper has followed and leaving. I 249 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: cannot get her up. Okay, you said she's falling leading 250 00:15:54,120 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: from the head. Yeah, oh how I'm not sure? Like 251 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: fifty eight maybe you know if she fell from standing 252 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: or not? No, so where she fall from? She felt 253 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: going up the steps, but the first steps okay, so 254 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: she had better on time outside? So tim, how many 255 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: steps are there? Eight? Okay? If she on the ground 256 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: or she knows on the ground, she's on the ground. 257 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: She's on the ground. Contract but no, not really is 258 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: she awake at all? Yeah? Okay, Okay, she sounds really calm. 259 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: Does she sound calm? Do you? Steve Helling, Steve Helling 260 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: joining me from people dot com. What about it? Say? 261 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: I mean, yes, she sounds very calm. I mean I 262 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: sometimes understand that you could be in shock when you 263 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: see something and that you don't get, you know, hysterical 264 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: about it. So I'll give her kind of a path 265 00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: on that. But I will say that it was just 266 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: it felt like a very clinical phone call, you know, 267 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: Yes it did. Yeah, so so And I don't even 268 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: know what to read into that is. I don't know 269 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: what to think about that now, Steve Helling, Um, Steve 270 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: joining us from people dot com. We've done We've covered 271 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: a lot of cases together, Steve Helling. We know that Maggie, 272 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: who you're hearing on the nine one one call reporting 273 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: Gloria Senterfille's fall is dead. She was shot really badly 274 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: outside the hunting lodge belonging to Alex Murdock. Her husband 275 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: also shot at the same time, her young son, Paul Murdock. 276 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: They've got another son who's still alive, but Paul and 277 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: Maggie shot dead outside the hunting lodge off Mozille. Where 278 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 1: did Gloria Centerfield fall down the steps bag place? So, 279 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's certainly, it certainly seems like 280 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: there's a real trail of tragedy following this. I guess 281 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: that's one way you're looking at it, a trail of tragedy. 282 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: Now you've got two other dead bodies connected to Alex 283 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: murdog and that would be Mallory Beach, the nineteen year 284 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: old girl that was thrown off the Murdoch boat to 285 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: her death, floating in the water for days and days. 286 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: Then you've got Stephen Smith, the teen boy that was 287 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: found in the road not far from their hunting lodge. 288 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: It was said it was a hit and run, but 289 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: long story short, he looked like he had been beaten 290 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: to smithereens like with a baseball bat. Do I have 291 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: all the dead bodies so far. Oh woa, then you 292 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: got the murdake grandfather who died of natural causes. Anybody 293 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: else dead that we know of, I don't think that. 294 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: I can't think of anybody else. But you know, there's 295 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: still investigations going on. Lord only knows what they'll find. Okay, guys, 296 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: we're listening to the night Wanta call and there's more 297 00:18:54,320 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: of it. Listen responding appropriately. But she is a weak man, 298 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: she's not she's not fun. Okay, I just I've already 299 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: got them on the way, and me asking questions does 300 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: not show them down. Man. Knowing if she's conscious is 301 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: one of the things that the medic needs to know. 302 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: If she's a smile up all to you. No, so 303 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: she's not responsive at all? Well, I mean she's mumbling, okay, 304 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: so she is somewhat conscious. Um. Is she breathing? Okay? Yeah? 305 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: Is she bleeding from anywhere? Yeah? Her head? Hey, are 306 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: you guys able to control the bleeding? No can dragging 307 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: on it? Yeah, I got it, Okay, bleeding from like 308 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: her face, the back of the head? Form word? Where 309 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: exactly she bleeding from? Mine? I'm not sure. At the 310 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: top of her head? Okay, gosh, is that really necessarily 311 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: to you just got Morgan. It's Maggie could be helping 312 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: Gloria Sadderfield and she's on a landline. She can't move 313 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: down to Maggie. So why all the questions? Can't emt 314 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: deal with it when they get there? Well, they could, 315 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: but it's important that they that they have an assessment 316 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: when they roll up. Remember these guys on the truck 317 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: they're rolling up, they're getting they're feeding them this information 318 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: as they're as they're rolling up. And if I remember correctly, 319 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: the sun was there as well, Nancy. He should be 320 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: offering aid and they're kind of communicating between the two 321 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 1: and that gets kind of interesting speaking of the sun. 322 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. Let's take a listen to him. This 323 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: is now dead, now murdered, Paul Murdock. Listen, Oh well, 324 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,239 Speaker 1: what happens to sell back down? Can I get off 325 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: the phone? Go down? Then? Can I have your name 326 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: the phone number? Are you able to be burying the 327 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 1: phone down by her? What are you on a cell 328 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,479 Speaker 1: phone where you can walk down there and walked her? 329 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: Can you bring it with you so we can ask 330 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: her some questions about what kind of paint is having? Hello? Yeah, 331 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: and can you have the facial amount pamee she's having? 332 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: Then she can't call? Okay? Do you know she's cracked 333 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: the hood and the blood on the country. She breathed 334 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: out of her left here. Okay, she's playing out of 335 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: her hair and out of her head. She's goal okay, 336 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: all right. The other lady said she had tried to 337 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: stand up and all down again. She I was holding 338 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: her up, Okay. She told me to trying to loosen. 339 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: She's trying to use her own but then she fell 340 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: back over. Okay. Do you guys know who she is? Yes? 341 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: She works for Okay Time Stories with Nancy Grace and 342 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: can you have the facial acount pamee she's having? Then 343 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: she can't call. Okay. Do you know she cuts the 344 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: hood and there's broad on the concourt and to breathe 345 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: out of her left here? Okay, she's bleeding out of 346 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:11,959 Speaker 1: her here and out of her head school okay, all right. 347 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: The other lady so that she had tried to stand 348 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: up and fell down again. She I was holding her up, Okay. 349 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: She told me to try to loose, and she's trying 350 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: to use her on but then she fell back over. Okay, 351 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: do you guys know who shears, Yes, she works for Okay, 352 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: I'm telling you it hadn't no one. Operators getting really irritating. 353 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: Got a woman possibly bleeding out down at the bottom 354 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: of the steps, and she's going on and on and on. 355 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: But guys, you've got to see the back drop to 356 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: what we're hearing right now. Take a listen to our 357 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: cut l from our friends at Fox Carolina. Gloria Sadderfield 358 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: died from a fall while in the Murdoch home back 359 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen. Her sons were owed over four million 360 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,479 Speaker 1: dollars in life insurance money. Murdoch was acqu has been 361 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: bazling that money, and today a new judgment reveals he 362 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: admitted to stealing those funds. This confession means he will 363 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: have to pay the sadder Field Suns four point three 364 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: million dollars. Murdoch faces a long list of charges related 365 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 1: to other estates. The Attorney General's Office says he worked 366 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: with his long time for Random Bank ceowed to steal 367 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: money owed to clients and use it for personal use. 368 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: Representatives for the Sadderfield Suns say they will work to 369 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: hold all those involved accountable. Now, the attorney for Glorious 370 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: Sadderfield Suns say they planned to use some of the 371 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: settlement money to start a foundation in her memory. They 372 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: plan to hold a news conference with more information in 373 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: the coming weeks to save Helen joining us from people 374 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: dot com what personal use? But how did Alex murdog 375 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: get his hands on a four point three million dollars 376 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: life insurance settlement that was for glorious Sadderfield children. Well, 377 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: the interesting thing is that there were actually two settlements 378 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: from two different insurance companies on this. The family knew 379 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 1: about one of them, but they did not know about 380 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: the other, and they were by the time, you know, 381 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: they were still waiting for payment for the smaller one, 382 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: while there was a payout for four you know, for 383 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: millions of dollars on the second one that the family 384 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: didn't even know existed. And that is the money that 385 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: um that you know, Alex Murdock is accused of taking. 386 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: So okay, skip Hogeland. How is it that some judge 387 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: somewhere signed off or thought it was okay for Alex 388 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: and Murdo to have his fingers in the cookie jar 389 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: in a lawsuit against himself and that the money be 390 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: given to him. I don't understand this well, you know, 391 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: here's why Judge Carmen Mullin tip of fuzz the outlaws 392 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: and dirty black robes classification. Well what who Who's Judge 393 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 1: Carmen Who Carmen Mullinka Mullin is on the set of 394 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: Field case. That's the judge on the Ria Sadderfield case. 395 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: That's that's correct, and I'm just on the civil case. 396 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: Judge Mullin was accused of allowing disgraced lawyer Alex Murdoch 397 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: to hide the four point three million payout from the 398 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: wrongful depth lawsuit for his housekeeper, which was supposed to 399 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: go to her grieving family. And this story goes on 400 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: and on and on and so um and and the 401 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: family never received the full payout, and we're told and 402 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: we're not told of the settlement. And then David Pasco 403 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: has now filed an official complaint saying that Mullins signed 404 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: off in the settlement knowing that it would be kept 405 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: in the public view. So wait a minute, let me 406 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: understand something, Skip Hoogland the judge. You're saying Judge Mullins 407 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: signed off on murdog getting the money. That's what That's 408 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: how these facts have laid out. And also in David 409 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: Pascoe's complaint of the testimony given last a month by 410 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: Chad west Westendorf, the vice president of Hampton County based 411 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: Palmla State Bank and alleged coals and he was an 412 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: alleged co conspirator in the scheme to steal the four 413 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: point three million from the family of the Murdoch's housekeepers. 414 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: Western Door testified that Mullin signed the order knowing it 415 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: would it would not be filed in the public record. 416 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: According to the complaint, there's now sworn testimony establishing that 417 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: Judge Mulland signed the sadder Field Order made thirteenth, two 418 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: nineteen knowing it would not be filed to prevent the 419 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: litigants in the Mallory Beach matter from learning about Murdoch's 420 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: insurance coverage and his settlement with the saddled Fields estate. 421 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: Who wait, wait, wait, wait wait, that's a lot, Steve Holling, 422 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: This monster has tentacles all the way through the courthouse. 423 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: Did you hear what Hogland is saying. He's saying that 424 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: a judge signed off on this four point three I 425 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: think it's four point three million dollars settlement knowing that 426 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: it was I guess sealed, and that the other people 427 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: suing Alex Mortaw specifically Mallory Beaches family, the team girl 428 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: they died on the Mornon boat, being thrown off the 429 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: boat so they couldn't see it. It's just getting worse. 430 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: It's like a giant, nasty snowball going down the mountain, 431 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 1: getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And you know, it's 432 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: funny because you always hear about these, you know, these 433 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: small communities and the corruption that can go on, and 434 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: you know, and the old Boys network and everything. I 435 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: don't know that I've ever seen it so blatant as 436 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 1: I'm seeing it in this case. You know, It's just 437 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: when has there ever been a settlement that is sealed 438 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: to the fact, to the point where other people won't 439 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: even know that it happened, including the plaintiffs. It's it's absurd. 440 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: I mean, Susan E. Williams joining me South Carolina criminal 441 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: defense attorney and former prosecutor, these serious allegations that a 442 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: judge or judges, bank officials, I don't even know who 443 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: else would somehow be complicit in taking people some money, 444 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: millions of dollars. I mean, somebody had to okay all 445 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:22,719 Speaker 1: this well, although Pascoe had a solicitor, Pasco has filed 446 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: a complaint against Judge Mullin. Judge Mullin has not been 447 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: publicly reprimanded or anything like that in the state of 448 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: South Carolina. So I believe that there is still you know, 449 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: whatever went on there, there's there hasn't been any proof. 450 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: There hasn't been anything that's come out and said that 451 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: she's done anything that was not something that she should 452 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: have done. I mean, it's it's nothing. The bar, the 453 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: South Carolina Bar has not recognized that in any way. 454 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: So it may or may not be true. It's correct. 455 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: Somebody had to sign off on this settlement, didn't they. 456 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: I mean, someone had to allow the disbursement of the 457 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: funds four point three million dollars because its sure as 458 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: hey did not go to the family. Someone had to 459 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: sign off that. That does not mean they were complicit. Necessarily, 460 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: does not necessarily mean that. Okay, I'm just you know 461 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: what immediately came to mind, Jackie. Do you remember the 462 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: huge apartment tower, condo tower in Florida that just fell 463 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: down in the middle of a day and all the 464 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: people they could hear people in the rebels screaming crying 465 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: and begging for help, and they couldn't identify them, and 466 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: they were trying to dig them out of all that scent. Well, 467 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: somebody signed off on that building and that structure and 468 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: the upkeep and the maintenance of that. So what they 469 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: weren't complicit? I don't know. I don't know all the 470 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: facts surrounding us, but I know this. They're sure as 471 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: hey better be some kind of investigation, because it's not 472 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: just the don't Feel family. According to documents that we'd received, 473 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: and correct me if i'm ron Steve Halling, Murdoch's law 474 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: firm kicked him out because of millions and millions of 475 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: dollars that he has apparently in basil siphoned from the clients. 476 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: And it went on and on and on. This is 477 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: not just the SATA fields. That's absolutely right. And you 478 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: know I spoke when I was in South Carolina. I 479 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: supposed to a couple of the associates there at the firm. 480 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: Oh I bete you did. Yes, they are furious. I 481 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: think everybody's curious because it makes the firm look bad. 482 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: Oh oh wait, excuse me, please call me. It should 483 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: make the law firm look bad. Where have they been 484 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: with their thumb up their rear end the whole time. 485 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: This didn't happened overnight. What nobody's watching the money? That's 486 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: one of the big questions. How could that have gone 487 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: on for so long? And it's not just their money, 488 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: it's their clients money. Steve halling right, and you know 489 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: it's you can almost figure that have happened one time 490 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: that maybe everybody just kind of missed it. I believe 491 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: I'd find four point three million dollars, But that's just me, 492 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: you know. The first of the mind, I'm right on 493 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: the computer trying to make sure that my check went 494 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: in for us paying bills. So it makes it really 495 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: hard for me to understand or connect to someone that 496 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: is so so cavalier. Well, not their money, but their 497 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: clients money. You don't write. They ought to be mad 498 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: and they ought to be embarrassed because this happened on 499 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: their watch time stories with Nancy Grace. What do we 500 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: know about the actual death, What do we know about 501 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: the stealing of the money. This is Van Hillyar NBC. 502 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: At the time, the Murdoch said her death was an 503 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: accident and that she tripped over the family dogs and 504 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,479 Speaker 1: fell down the stairs. But Now authorities are questioning the incident, 505 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: her family alleging last fall that Murdoch never paid them 506 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: the two million dollars he agreed to pay out to 507 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: her estate as part of a settlement over her death 508 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: at the family's home. Sadderfield's family telling Craig Melvin on 509 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: Dateline last fall, she felt like they were family. We 510 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: thought they were a family. Think they are family. What 511 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: did Alec Murdoch see to you after your mom died? 512 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: He would you take care of us and kind of 513 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: look out pours? Yeah, okay, this is apparently Steve Hellings 514 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: joining me from people dot com as a mountain their words, 515 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: not mont a mountain of evidence is amassing against Murdog. Now, Oh, 516 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: quick question, where was Alex Murdog when Glorious Sadderfield failed 517 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: down the steps? I don't actually know where he was, 518 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: but he certainly wasn't part of the nine one one call, 519 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: and so I don't believe you. Is that what you think? Okay? 520 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: I don't know enough to jump on you and ride 521 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: you like a mule on that because I'm not clear 522 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: where he was, but I can tell you this his 523 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: seemingly airtight alibi the night that Paul his son and 524 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: Maggie were murdered in the same place at the hunting 525 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: lodge off Moselle is now apparently falling apart. A guy 526 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: named Jim Griffin, Murdog's lawyer, is placing Murdog at the 527 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: scene of the crime shortly before the murders. Griffin contends 528 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: Murdog left the estate around nine pm to drive to 529 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: his mother's house a twenty minute drive away, and came 530 00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: back at ten and low and beholds even helling between 531 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: nine and ten the one hour window. What the coincidink 532 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: that's what his wife and son were shot dead. Steve 533 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: Halling jump in, yeah, I mean we now, we're now 534 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: starting to see a lot of stuff is coming together 535 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: to show that, you know, his air tight alibi isn't 536 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: as airtight. You know. There's appears to be some cell 537 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: phone video of taking off of Paul's phone which has 538 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: been unlocked, which seems to place Alex at the scene. 539 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: That's something we didn't know before. You know, last month, 540 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: the talk, you know, the local news talked a little 541 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:43,879 Speaker 1: bit about the high velocity spatter on Alex's shirt, which 542 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: we didn't know before. I haven't been able to independently 543 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: verify that, but it certainly is coming out fit Knews. 544 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: There's a lot of things that are coming out that, yes, 545 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,399 Speaker 1: even half of them are true. It's really looking bad 546 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: for Alice Murdoch. Now we also know that FITS news 547 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 1: has reported that Maggie Murdog apparently was lured lured out 548 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: to the hunting lodge they call it the night that 549 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 1: night by her husband under the guy's visiting his sick father. 550 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: But I want to circle back to what you mentioned. 551 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: Video found reportedly found on Paul Murdoch's phone. The dead 552 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: son now has been unlocked. That's a forensic matter. Joe 553 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, how do you unlock a cell phone? It's 554 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: not like the James Bond movies where you've got some 555 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: brilliant computer whiz on the computer and all of a sudden, hey, 556 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: I got it. It his birthday backwards, plus the ABC's 557 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: of signed down. No, it's a lot harder than that 558 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: to unlock a cell phone. But they did unlock it, 559 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 1: and there's video on there showing reportedly Alex Murdog and 560 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: his wife Maggie talking by the dog Kennel's the evening 561 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 1: of June seven, twenty twenty one, according to multiple sources. 562 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: So that shoots his alibi to hell and back. What 563 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: about it, Hailing? I mean you just said it. It's 564 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 1: like there are a lot of source there are a 565 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: lot of sources that are now saying, well, no, this 566 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: isn't an airtight alibi, not at all. And yes, you know, 567 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,320 Speaker 1: of course it took time to figure out how to 568 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: get into Paul murdoss phone, and once they did, there's 569 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 1: evidence there. I assume they're getting evidence elsewhere. And when 570 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: it comes to, you know, the state of Alex and 571 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: Maggie's marriage, we were the ones at People magazine who 572 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: reported that she had seen a divorce attorney before this 573 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: whole thing, you know, before she died? Now why a 574 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: man at Steve Hailing? Yes, when I went to the location. 575 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: How long ago was that, Jackie? Almost a year ago? 576 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: The people in the sandwich shop, Jimmy John told me 577 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: that they were getting a divorce and that she was 578 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: instigating it. Head been too a lawyer. Now, I trust 579 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: the people at Jimmy John's. So who told you that 580 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: the lawyer? I talked to the lawyer. Okay, So what 581 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: does that mean to you? I mean, what it means is. 582 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: You know, they try, they're still trying. His lawyers are 583 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: still trying to peep this picture that No, their marriage 584 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: wasn't in crisis. Their marriage was in crisis. You don't 585 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: go see a divorce lawyer. As somebody who's been divorced myself, 586 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: I can tell you you don't see a divorced lawyer 587 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: unless there's a problem in your marriage. Man, you're not kid. 588 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: You know they charge you for the consultation. Let's just 589 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: start right there. So you got going on, and you know, 590 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, Joe Scott Morgan, you're the professor of 591 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: forensics at jacksonvill State University, and so much more, Joe Scott, 592 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: to unlock a cell phone, like I said, it's not 593 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: like it is on James Bond. Okay, it takes effort 594 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: a lot of time. It's sometimes very difficult to do. Yeah, 595 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: you're right, it does. And many times there are subpoenas 596 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: that are involved, and it goes beyond the technical as 597 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,320 Speaker 1: you well know. You know, there's been all kinds of 598 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: things that have happened with Apple phones and that sort 599 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: of thing, and kind of digging back in there. But 600 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: you know, when you look at an organization like sled H. 601 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: They have access to those abilities and capabilities people on 602 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: their staff. And now you know the FEDS are involved 603 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 1: in this, so you've got you know, you've got the 604 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: long arm of them. But here, here's here's what I'm 605 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: curious about, Nancy. Something that you mentioned. Why why would 606 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: Paul feel the need to record this conversation to video 607 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: his dad? And I think that's that's really compelling there. 608 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 1: And you know what, that's interesting. I was thinking the 609 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 1: same thing. And and Susan Williams, we just saw a 610 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: jury turn against amber Heard and the Johnny Depp amber 611 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 1: Heard civil trial because they thought it was just bizarre 612 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: that whenever that have an argument, she would video take 613 00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 1: the whole thing. There's a reason you videotape things, right, 614 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: There's a reason that you video tape things or video 615 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 1: record things to preserve it for something that you may 616 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 1: want to use later. And amber Heard believed that the 617 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,800 Speaker 1: jury would hear Johnny's story and not believe him, but 618 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: the jury spoke, I mean, come on, Susan Williams, are 619 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: you married? Are you married? Susan, yes, I am. When 620 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: you and your husband get in an argument, and I'm 621 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 1: sure it's his fault. Let's just put that out there 622 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,840 Speaker 1: right now. Of course it's his fault. But when you 623 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,719 Speaker 1: have an argument, does he videotape you or do you 624 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: videotape him? No? Never, I mean whenever I have an 625 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: argument with David, which, by the way, we never argued 626 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 1: until we have the twins. Now we argue all the 627 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 1: time about what's best for the twins. But I think 628 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 1: it was crazy but took out a video of phocus 629 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: me during an argument, Skip Hoogle, Let me ask you this, 630 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: a founder of scwatchdog dot com. I know that there's 631 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 1: an extensive body of research and evidence that you've done 632 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,800 Speaker 1: on this, but could you explain in a nutshell the 633 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,399 Speaker 1: type of people you believe could be involved in wrongdoing 634 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: as far as disbursement of money, as far as embezzling 635 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: money from his law firm, bank documents that have been 636 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: falsified allegedly by the Murdochs, all sorts of illegalities that 637 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 1: somebody approved and went along with. All right, Well, the 638 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: judicial mouthfeasance with Judge Mullin and many judges in South Carolina. 639 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: What I think needs to happen in the way I 640 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: think we can prove Judge mullin mouthfeasance is the fact 641 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: that she is friends and she's been here for a 642 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,880 Speaker 1: long time with another local judge, Duke. So they've been 643 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,440 Speaker 1: here a long time. They're local judges, They're friends with 644 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,760 Speaker 1: all the Murdochs, all the Murdoch lawyers, they're they're all close. 645 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: It's just one big and setuous, backslapping, background dealing club. 646 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: They should not only be investigated for the Saturville case, 647 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: but all cases, and this is how we can prove 648 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: a pattern. They should be They should be investigated for 649 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,359 Speaker 1: all the cases involving the Murdoch lawyers going back twenty years. 650 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: Jitter mouthfeesis has become a plague in South Carolina, and 651 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,280 Speaker 1: it's because we allow the legislature, many who are lawyers, 652 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: to appoint judges who ruling the cases involved in the 653 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,800 Speaker 1: same legislatures or their friends who are the corupted officials 654 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 1: we are investigating. So Mullins needs to be investigated period. Well, 655 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: I agree. I believe every bank official, judge, everyone involved 656 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: in the firm that had anything to do with these 657 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 1: settlements needs to be investigated. But I want to say 658 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 1: one thing, Karen Stark, I may have told you this 659 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: story before, but I will never forget. One of my 660 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:49,359 Speaker 1: very first big cases was against a very serious drug 661 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,399 Speaker 1: lord and he lived in a beautiful luxury high rise 662 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, and the whole case turned on one legal issue, 663 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,360 Speaker 1: and that was as to seizure issue because in his 664 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,799 Speaker 1: high rise, the doorman, who was drunk quite often, got 665 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: a fed X to the drug lord and he became 666 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: curious and he tore the fed X on the lope 667 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,320 Speaker 1: open and inside, believe it or not, was a brick 668 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: of uncut cocaine worth millions of dollars millions on the street. 669 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 1: Why they sent it in fed X I don't know. 670 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: So the cops were called. I had an APD show up. 671 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 1: He was wonderful and saw what was in the fed axe. 672 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: That launched a search and the drug lord was arrested. 673 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: Had never been able to touch him before. Long story short, 674 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: The whole case depended on will that fed X come 675 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,439 Speaker 1: into evidence with the cocaine, because if the search was bad, 676 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 1: there was no case. The lawyer was a very high 677 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 1: defense lawyer, very high pro bay, a lawyer all across 678 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 1: the country. He came into the courtroom Karen Start with 679 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:10,840 Speaker 1: his beautifully tinted blown back blonde hair, kind of like 680 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: Frasier would wear his hair. He had this gorgeous coat 681 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,360 Speaker 1: you know that would probably, you know, close to what 682 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,720 Speaker 1: my used car cross draped over his shoulders like a cape. 683 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,279 Speaker 1: He was being followed by a lot of lackeys. And 684 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 1: there I was and my little seriously catalog meal order 685 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 1: dress and my shoes that had been resold I don't 686 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,640 Speaker 1: know how many times, and I'm like, oh crap. And 687 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: then here's the point. Here's the point. He goes back 688 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:45,759 Speaker 1: into the chambers with the judge and they were their 689 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 1: arms around each other and they were patting each other 690 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,359 Speaker 1: and talking. I'm like, well, look, yeah, well and they 691 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 1: went back there and they stayed a long time, and 692 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,799 Speaker 1: I said, well that's that. The judge came back out. 693 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: We had the motion and Judge Don Langham ruled with 694 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 1: the state. I'll never forget it because I thought, oh, 695 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,800 Speaker 1: they're friends, they're slapping each other on the bike. It 696 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: probably made a contribution, but the judge did the right thing. 697 00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: So the fact that these judges may know the Murdogs, 698 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,880 Speaker 1: or know their law firm or their partner, that doesn't 699 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,320 Speaker 1: mean anything. The proof is going to be in the documents, 700 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 1: So let's don't rule the judges out yet. Can we 701 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,840 Speaker 1: have a little fate Jared stark Well, I think that 702 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 1: we have to give it a transmitts a awful lot, Nancy, 703 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 1: of corruption going on there, and what you hope at 704 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,520 Speaker 1: this point is that so much has been exposed that 705 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 1: there will be a fair trial and that people justice 706 00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: will be served, as you love to say. Oh and 707 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 1: by the way, the end of that story is that 708 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:56,719 Speaker 1: Charles Erlick aka Street named Charlie Tuna went down. I 709 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,800 Speaker 1: think it was twenty to life after the trial. But 710 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,120 Speaker 1: that wasn't the end of trolley Tenant Jackie. When O. J. 711 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:09,040 Speaker 1: Simpson robbed that guy ever memorabilia guess who was winning 712 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:13,000 Speaker 1: his robbing crew. Charles Erlick. He had done his jail time, 713 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,760 Speaker 1: gotten out and hooked up with O. J. Simpson in Vegas, 714 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 1: and I heard that. I'm like, there's this is can 715 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 1: there be too? Charles Erlick's no, there was. It was him, 716 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,600 Speaker 1: So you know, you can't teach an old dog in 717 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 1: nutric Apparently, we wait as justice unfolds as the body 718 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:35,360 Speaker 1: of Miss Sadderfield is exomed. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing 719 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 1: off