WEBVTT - Interview Only w/ Joel Willett - How Democrats Can Win In Appalachia 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.640 Do you hate hangovers, We'll say goodbye to hangovers. Out 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:05.160 of Office gives you the social buzz without the next 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:07.560 day regret. Their best selling out of Office gummies were 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:10.479 designed to provide a mild, relaxing buzz, boost your mood, 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:14.120 and enhance creativity and relaxation. With five different strengths, you 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:16.360 can tailor the dose to fit your vibe, from a 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:20.520 gentle one point five milligram micro dose to their newest 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:24.599 fifteen milligram gummy for a more elevated experience. Their THHC 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:28.159 beverages and gummies are a modern, mindful alternative to a 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.680 glass of wine or a cocktail. And I'll tell you this, 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.879 I've given up booze. 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So go to getsold dot 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:13.319 Com use the promo code toodcast. Don't forget that code. 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:21.760 That's getsold dot Com promo code toodcast for thirty percent off. Well, 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.600 joining me now is a I guess you could argue 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.840 a new politician to the scene. His name's Joel Willett. 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.000 He's running for the US Senate in Kentucky. He got 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.400 on my radar. He's kind of out of nowhere where 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:38.520 Telsea Gabbert took away a whole bunch of people's national 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.760 security clearances, even folks who were had served in the 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.960 intelligence community were in the private sector but still had some, 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.559 you know, some clearances, because that is a normal thing 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:53.520 we've done in our government for decades. And there appeared 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.920 to be some sort of connection. The minute mister Willett 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:02.000 agreed to think about running for office, Suddenly it seemed 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:05.880 as if the government decided to give him another headline. 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:07.600 In some ways, I think they may have even given 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:12.960 him an assistance with getting more attention in some ways 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:17.120 for his candidacy, but he's also you know, we want 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:19.880 to highlight interesting first time candidates who are not coming 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:22.919 from sort of a typical place, hard left, hard right, 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:26.480 things like that, And Joe Willett got on my radar 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:28.240 and he agreed to sit down. 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.760 Mister Willett, nice to meet you. Yeah, thank you, Chuck. 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:34.359 So let's start with how you got in a service. Look, 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:38.320 we're taping just before Veterans Day. You're a veteran. I'm 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.799 a huge advocate that feels as if that the people 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:47.560 best equipped to what I call to I'm looking for 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.960 more pastors for patriotism in this country right that. I 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:54.520 think the military community and the intelligence community, where you 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.400 have to be Team America before your Team Red or 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.080 Team Blue, is probably as good of a place to 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:01.760 find these pastors for patriotism as you can find. 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:06.520 But tell me how you got what got you into service? Yeah? 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.840 I love that term. Atn't heard it before, so I'm 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:09.600 probably gonna steal. 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:11.880 Well, I'm using it over and over. I'm obviously a 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:13.800 little proud of it, so I'm going to use it 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:14.679 probably too much. 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:19.160 But you know, well, my grandmother took me to church 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.959 every weekend growing up and was heavily involved with my 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.040 church for a long time. So it resonates. So yeah, 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:29.080 thank you for the opportunity to tell my story. I 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:31.280 am Joel Willett running for the US and in Kentucky. 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.280 Your listeners can catch all the parts of the story 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.560 at Joelferkentucky dot com if I miss something here. But 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:39.800 I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky, and my path to 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:44.280 service was perhaps common in some ways and uncommon in others. 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:47.120 My dad was a Union iron worker. He was a 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.520 Golden Gloves boxer. My mom worked in hospitals taking care 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:52.920 of people. But we had some Kentucky struggles growing up. 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:55.800 The lights didn't always come on when I got home 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.160 from school. I learned, you know, early in my adolescence 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.960 that both of my parents were struggling with addictions to opioids, 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:02.840 and I would eventually lose my father to a fenteral 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.840 overdose in twenty nineteen. It wasn't just my family, It 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:09.440 was tens of thousands of Kentucky families over the past 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.280 couple of decades. But I was one of the lucky 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.760 ones because I had incredible grandparents on both sides of 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.400 my family. I had my grandmother's church, but I also 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:22.400 had the institutions of this country, public education, our military, 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.080 our civil service, some of these things that I believed 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:28.479 to be some of the greatest tools for achievement and 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:32.520 economic mobility in the world. And when the attacks of 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:34.680 nine to eleven happened, I was a senior in high 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:37.159 school and a few months after that, after months of 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.800 begging my mom to sign the paperwork, she relented and did, 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:42.760 and I joined the Army National Guard when I was 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:46.480 seventeen years old, and I served in the Military Police Corps. 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:48.880 I was able to graduate from the University of Louisville 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.880 and from the University of Kentucky, and that launched a 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.480 career once I left the Army in the intelligence community, 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:57.960 I spent some time with the FBI working on canterterrorism 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.200 and then was recruited into Essentral Intelligence Agency into the 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:05.040 Director to Operations, where I represented this country here at 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:08.280 home and abroad in the Balkans, Baltic, Southeast Asia, Western 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:09.279 European capitals. 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:13.360 I speak Russian. Do with that which you will, and 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:14.920 you know. 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:17.560 Finished my last year in government in the White House 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:21.680 Situation Room as a nonpartisan civil servant, there to provide 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.919 intelligence and crisis management support to the president who was 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.280 then President Obama and Vice President Biden. There to serve 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.520 the presidency, not the president, and the true spirit of 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.440 our civil service. I left government twenty fifteen in part 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:36.080 to be able to take care of a lot of 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:39.159 my family that remained in Kentucky, went into the private sector, 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.280 have since been running businesses that have put hundreds of 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.160 people to work every day. So, Chuck, I truly got 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:48.719 to live my American dream and have been, you know, 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.880 living that life as a private citizen for some time now, 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.520 and it's been increasingly hard to sit on the sidelines 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.480 and watch working families across this country, working families like 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:00.760 the one that I grew up in, eating steamrolled by 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.359 a political and economic system that I think continues to 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.279 treat them as acceptable losses. So, as you said, I 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.400 started exploring a run for the Senate. This administration found 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:11.280 out about it, and, as it is wont to do, 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.440 began trying to act revenge on people, no matter how 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:17.799 long they had served, no matter what they had served, 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.440 but because they had said mean things about Donald Trump. 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.599 And we're thinking about standing up against some of what 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.400 we're saying today, and they revoked a security clearance and 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:29.880 you know, came after me the way they've come after 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:31.320 so many others. 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:35.960 What made your democrat? Why'd you pick a party? Yeah? 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:37.000 When did you pick a party? 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:38.640 Do you remember when you've said, you know what I think, 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.040 I am a Democrat? Or and this is why I'm 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.479 doing it? What give me your reasoning for? 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:45.000 Yeah, it was a. 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:50.279 It was a long, maybe a short evolution out of 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.960 being a conservative, which is, you know, I would freely 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:56.720 admit to holding some conservative views as a as an 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.719 interested teenager or even in high school. But my journey 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:04.200 away from that came, perhaps shockingly to some people, through 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:08.360 military service. The military exposed me to people from all 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:14.280 walks of life, nationalities, sexual orientations, all of that, and 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:18.640 I began seeing, you know, what I have since come 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:20.920 to believe is, you know, this source of strength in 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:23.280 our military and in our country, which is the diversity 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.320 that we have. But it was also seeing the lies 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:27.200 of the Iraq War. 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:29.600 I you know, I. 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:34.560 Could see something very different than what the George W. 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:38.560 Bush administration was saying publicly, you know about this status 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:40.680 or the state of our military, our readiness to fight 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:42.560 such a war, and then you know, we we we 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:47.200 later come to learn that much of the rationale for 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:49.120 going to war in Iraq was a house of cards, 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.559 and I continue to see that, you know, some twenty 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.200 years later, as one of the most disastrous foreign policy 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:59.000 decisions we've made, certainly in my lifetime. So that began, 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.360 you know, a of reassessment for me away from you know, 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:06.480 what was the Republican Party or conservative viewpoints. And I 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:10.560 would say that the journey into being, you know, a 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:12.520 Democrat is something that happened much later. 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:13.920 You know. 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:15.800 I'm sure somebody will fact check me on this, but 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.160 if my memory serves me, the first time I registered 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:20.880 as a Democrat to vote was in twenty sixteen, and 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.600 it was in response to what I saw as the 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:24.560 clear and present. 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:25.680 Danger of Donald Trump. 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.400 And I have been proudly a Democrat since that time 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.839 because that is the party that I see standing up 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.640 for a strong America, for an America that works for 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:37.160 everybody and not just the wealthiest. 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:41.280 You know, hearing your story talking about your personal story, 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.360 your parents struggles with opoioid's, the tragedy of your father, 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.520 the strength of your grandparents, I'm sure I'm not the 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:51.400 only person who they start to think. I wonder what 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:55.240 he thought of Hillbill the book Hillbilly Elegy by a 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:56.680 gentleman by the name of JD. 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:57.160 Vance. 0:08:57.640 --> 0:08:59.959 Some people may recognize him as the current Vice president, 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.160 and some people may wonder if the same person wrote 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:08.319 that book. And I'll set that aside. I'm curious what 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:12.560 you made of that book and how much of what 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.320 Jdvan shared in that book resonated with you. 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:17.400 Yeah. 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.800 I first became aware of that book in twenty nineteen 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:23.000 when I lost my father, and you know, an attempt 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.760 to process my own emotions around that, because Chuck, it was, 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:27.720 you know, one of the most debilitating things that had 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.800 ever happened to me, because no matter how long I 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.520 had expected that phone call, nothing really prepares you for it. 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:35.920 And I would say, my life for six years has 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.920 been a project and trying to understand how this country could, 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.520 you know, create my life, which I see as a 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:45.640 truly uniquely American life, coming from Valley Station, Kentucky, to 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:47.520 the halls of the West Wing in twelve years, to 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:53.040 leadership and business. If my life is uniquely American, so 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.559 too was my father's death because people do not die 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.640 from fentyl overdoses in a statistically significant way in other 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:00.640 parts of the world, yet it's the leading cause of death, 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.400 I believe in the United States for people ages eighteen 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.560 to forty four. So I became aware of he'llbiliology during 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.000 that time, and I would say, there are a lot 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.520 of similarities between my story and JD. 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:11.040 Vance's. 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.959 I my heart aches for, you know, the life that 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.200 he describes, you know, living growing up, and so much 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.640 of it resonates with me. And I understand that, you know, 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:25.680 he similarly felt a need to serve his country, and 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.280 you know, I will have to transition now to say 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:32.360 that there are major differences between my story and JD. Vance's, 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:34.520 and that being that I didn't turn into a giant 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:35.719 asshole at the end of it. 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:40.839 Boy, I didn't see that landing. I didn't see the 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:42.839 play landing that abruptly. 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.920 That was may have crashed it a little bit, but 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:47.079 I was just going to say I had one of 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:50.480 those landings yesterday actually, while flying back from Miami, where 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:52.520 it was the first I think a runway that he 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:53.599 wasn't used to using it. 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:55.880 It was like Boa, like we all hit the ground 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.400 road WHOA, that was an early morning flight, so it 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:02.520 woke me up. No. I mean, look, it is very 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:09.320 hard to square jd Vance, the author jd Vance, the 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:15.720 conservative pundit of twenty sixteen, right with the person that 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:19.240 ended up in the United States Senate, you know, sort 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.920 of making a what appears to be a political deal, right, 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:27.040 And look, that's yeah. I've always slightly hesitant on motive, 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.640 in assuming motive because none of us can crawl inside 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:32.880 anybody's head right on motive. But he just looks from 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:36.400 the outside. O. This stuff doesn't doesn't compute. But what 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:40.640 does compute, frankly, is the fact that these so many 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:47.320 of these stories exist and why politicians have had a 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:51.160 hard time figuring out how to use government to fix this. 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.440 So let's talk about that. Like I would assume for you, 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.360 if you get elected that a priority is going to 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:58.600 be okay, how do we deal with it? I mean, 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:03.079 take the issue a fentyl. You got a president who's 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:07.440 manufacturing is using the fentyl crisis, which is real, and 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.320 ascribing it to the Venezuelans, which has nothing to do 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:14.040 with this, right, and getting us potentially to screw up 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.960 yet another Latin American country. With interventions that will only 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.120 cost us cause this country problems for decades to come, 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.160 and our distrust in that region of the country. And 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.240 it's like, how many times do we have to screw 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:33.880 up our relationships with Latin America with this? But what 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.920 is you know, you've you've it sounds like for the 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:41.080 last six years in particular, you've really wanted to understand 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.440 both the struggles people have with fentanyl, how it gets 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.760 into this country. What should we be doing differently to 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:52.160 stop fentanyl from getting into this country? And is it 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:54.840 Is it possible? You know, are we trying to like 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:58.280 stop the weather right Like is this impossible? And instead 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:03.319 we've got to go about this another way. 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.880 Yeah, I think we certainly have to go about it 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.679 in a different way than we've attacked this problem or 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.480 any other of the drug crises that we've had in 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:13.400 this country. 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:14.720 Over the years. 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:16.640 But you know, let me start with kind of the 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.960 supply side of this, where we you know, that's where 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.840 Donald Trump's conversation around it seems to end. And unfortunately 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.679 for many Americans, he's not the only president that has 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:29.440 stopped the conversation. 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:30.040 There. 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:33.000 We talk about, you. 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.680 Know, a drug war, and usually what we mean there 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.040 is attacking the supply and where the stuff is coming from. 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.400 Yes, we have to secure our borders. 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.720 Yes we have to go after and chase to the 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.360 ends of the earth the supply of this stuff, whether 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:48.520 we find it in a factory in Beijing or whether 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:51.640 we find it being pushed from boardrooms in some of 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.440 the largest companies and richest families. 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.160 In this country. And you know, we've had many, many. 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:03.000 Kentuckians lose a father or a brother because of unregulated 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.240 capitalism and doctors who had very perverse incentives to continue 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:10.280 pushing highly addictive opioids and poison uh into our community. 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:12.600 So I think we've we've got to pursue the supply 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.280 of this in many different directions. 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.600 We've made some progress on that and uh. 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.880 But but it's the demand side of it. Why are 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.720 people turning to these drugs? Why do people want to 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:26.800 use them? And I think it is that that we 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.520 need to that there is so much more that this 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.280 country could do. When I talk to you know, friends 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:36.479 in Europe about you know, what's going on with with 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.360 with drugs and addiction here, and they're like, wait a minute, 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:43.400 drug addicts, you know, they often not because they're terrible people, 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:45.840 but because they're literally out of their minds while using 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:50.120 do some destructive things, whether they steal or or a 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.840 public nuisance or wrecked cars and all these things. These 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:57.480 are stories that are just so vivid, vividly remembered in 0:14:57.800 --> 0:14:59.120 my life and in my family's life. 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:01.680 In European friends are like, wait, you send those people 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:02.640 to jail. 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:05.520 Why don't you send them to the hospital, because it 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.560 sounds like that's probably what they need. In Kentucky, we've 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:13.160 had three years of declining overdose deaths from synthetic opioids. 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.200 We've got down to like fourteen hundred and ten. 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:17.400 This past year. 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.960 A lot of that progress was made because we invested 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:24.040 heavily in this state and medicaid expansion, and it was 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:28.200 access to medicaid that paid for treatment that helped people, 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.080 paid for some NARCAN community awareness, and also paid for 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.520 treatment for addicts. And I do think that is just 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:40.400 something we have to invest more in because you know, 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.600 we want people to have good lives and good opportunity 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:48.440 in this country. And you know, young men, especially account 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.240 for I think eighty percent of what we call deaths 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:55.600 of despair, which are deaths from overdoses of some form 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.560 or another, or from suicide. And I think this can 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:01.480 all be tied back to people see their prospects of deming, 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.040 who see that no matter how hard they work, they're 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.680 not going to be able to get ahead. And that's 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.440 something that has to change. And I think that once 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.160 we have a seen economic policy in this country for 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.320 the working class upon whose backs all of this prosperity 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.560 was built, only then we be able to truly address 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:21.040 these problems with addiction. 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.520 So when you think about the things that could have 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:30.000 helped your father, you know, what's an intervention that we're 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.880 doing now? I mean, you know, I lost my father 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:39.480 at sixteen. I'm sorry alcoholism and hepatitis C in the 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.640 late eighties when we didn't have a pill to take 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:42.880 to sol hepatitis CE. 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:43.520 You just died. 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:47.440 So you know, I've got it's always what of? 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:47.760 For me? 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:49.600 The what if is, oh, my goodness, if you just 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:51.680 lived ten years longer than there'd have been a cure 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.920 and he would have survived. When you think about the 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.440 things that we're doing now, if they had been available 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:00.080 even ten years ago, do you think your father there 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.320 would still be a lot? Well? 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.680 I know that as a civil servant, you know, living 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.399 on an okay salary, but in a very expensive city 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.280 in Washington, d C. It was very tough to get 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.960 access to resources. And so I always say, you know, 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:20.320 we confronted my father and checked him into you know, 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.720 dollar store rehab and Elizabethtown, Kentucky. You know it was 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:25.920 there were professionals there were doing the best they can, 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:28.920 but it wasn't the most well resourced facility, and a 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.119 lot of desperate people showed up there. But even that 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.200 bought us some valuable years with my dad. He was 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:37.080 able to see his granddaughter, you know, grow up in 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.400 his best moments, you know, in my in my recollection 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.800 were always when he was a heavily involved father, and 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:46.760 it was as my you know, my life and his 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.680 started going in very different directions when I was a teenager. 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:51.960 And this is because you know, there was a free 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.600 fall that happens in this country. You know, you grow up, 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.159 you have some roof over your head or some access 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.560 to basics, You get good public education, and you've got 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:04.399 some opportunities if you make just even marginally okay choices 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:05.080 in this country. 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.359 And my dad's path, you know, wound through a. 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.800 Union and I got him jobs that were relatively you know, 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:12.800 well paying when he could work. But you know, obviously 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:14.800 there were mornings in the union hall where he didn't 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:17.280 have work in the you know, earlier mid nineties. But 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.960 it was it was you know, surgeries and things like 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.760 that that started to get these pain pills into his system. 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.960 And then as his economic prospects dimmed, those that became 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:27.760 a way to medicate away some of what I'm sure 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:29.960 was existential pain for him. I was going to provide 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.320 for his family. I was going to provide for his kids, 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:35.320 for son and his daughter, my sister. So to answer 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.040 a question specifically, yeah, we are doing a lot more today. 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:42.520 There's a lot more awareness about it than there was before. 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:44.879 This is an uncomfortable thing to talk about, as I'm 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.720 sure it has been for you, you know, opening up. 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.359 And and it takes Look, you're never going to get 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.400 over it. I you know, my wife and I both 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:55.960 lost parents at different times of our life, and we 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.080 always say, you know, the thing, the thing that you 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.600 learn when you lose body like that, no matter when 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.800 you lose it, it doesn't matter, it's always painful in it. 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:07.520 You never get over it. You just sort of you 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:10.119 live with it. Right, right, that's what we do. You 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:11.639 just learn to live with it, and then you wonder 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:13.959 what can how do you learn from it? Right? How 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:16.000 do you how do you try to try to try 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:20.159 to move on? You know, you brought up Medicaid. I 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:22.359 mean you feel you're I take it your concerned that 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:24.280 these Medicaid cuts are just going to make it that 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.520 much harder. You know, do you feel like Kentucky needs 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:32.280 more facilities that do rehab or they have enough facilities, 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:35.360 they need more resources to staff those facilities. 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:38.960 I think it's both, and I'll just zoom out to 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:43.640 healthcare large. We need more doctors, we need more health 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:48.040 care facilities. Uh. This administration passed an unconscionable four trillion 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:51.280 dollar tax cut to put money back in the pockets 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.959 of the already ultra wealthy, like the ten billionaires that 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:56.800 serve in Donald Trump's cabinet. I find is saying those 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.399 billionaires are not like the average Kentucky voter. They do 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.719 not like the average Kentucky voter. And they paid for 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.760 all of this by taking money out of healthcare programs 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:10.080 that as our governor has been front and center in 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.160 the press sounding the alarm about this. These cuts put 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.480 thirty five rual hospital pills in this state under threat 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.680 of closure for people, you know. 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:21.480 To lose access to that healthcare. 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:25.679 Even people who maintain health insurance through their employers are 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.359 going to have to drive farther, wait longer. These communities 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:30.720 are going to lose you know, one of the largest 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:35.240 employers in their communities. So yeah, we have a shortage 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.280 of health care access in the state of Kentucky and 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.080 in many parts around the country. And I think Republicans 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:46.840 in this administration have shown just play in simply in 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.440 recent months that they do not care. So I do 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:52.960 think that we need to increase the supply of healthcare. 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.480 We need to invest in more of what people actually need, 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:59.200 and in Kentucky that does mean you know, more access 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:03.280 to addiction treatment and overdose prevention. 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:07.080 But again, I think the root causes of all this happened. 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.479 Way earlier in life, and I would again tie it 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:16.600 to increasing inequality and dimming prospects for working families. 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:20.520 There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:23.640 there's a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.480 law firm. 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So let's talk. 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:24.280 You know, it's interesting I know that the next and 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:28.640 perhaps you know the fear of AI displacement for sort 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:33.080 of middle class white collar workers is now you know, 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:34.880 there's like a whole new group of folks that are 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:39.720 learning what blue collar workers were worrying about during audit. 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:42.919 The rise of the initial rise of automation and robotics, 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:46.920 right plus the global the global trade system in the 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:51.120 nineties and in the early odds, and that created this displacement. 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:56.160 Now we've got AI. Displacement's going to hit another chunk 0:22:56.200 --> 0:23:01.159 of workers. This attempt to bring manufacturing back, frankly doesn't 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:05.320 involve many individuals, right, It is more of a robotics 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:10.439 and automated situation. So, you know, how do we You know, 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:14.160 we can't go backwards. We're not going to force companies 0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:18.600 to use humans if it's cheaper to do an automated thing, right, 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:22.840 That's just not how capitalism works. Well, what's what should 0:23:22.840 --> 0:23:26.200 we you know, what what is what are the jobs 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:28.040 in the next twenty years that we ought to be 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:32.719 trying to get our communities prepared for, get our public 0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:37.680 education system geared towards you know, because I think about 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:40.120 think about the last thirty years, and we thought all 0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:43.159 of our kids needed to learn to code, right, And 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:45.160 it turns out whatever coding you've learned, it. 0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:46.800 Doesn't matter anymore. AI is going to do it. 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:50.520 And so I can tell you this as a parent, 0:23:50.560 --> 0:23:53.600 You're petrified, am I am my kids? 0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:55.600 You know, my kids going to have a future and 0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:56.560 what does that look like? 0:23:57.280 --> 0:23:59.280 It sounds like you have younger kids, both of mine 0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:03.600 are in college. What do you think about is the 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:06.280 jobs of the future and how should government be thinking 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:06.720 about it? 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:10.280 Yeah, for the record, my son is is sixteen and 0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:12.960 this is obviously a very uh. 0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:16.879 Yes, you're right as a moment conversation. Yes, I have 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:18.560 a freshman. I have a senior in college and a 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:21.639 freshman in college. Oh wow, yeah, good stuff. 0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:25.600 So so look it We've always had I mean, America 0:24:25.800 --> 0:24:27.680 is the innovation engine of the world. 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:30.080 We have always innovated. 0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:33.280 And with every wave of you know innovation, from you know, 0:24:33.480 --> 0:24:36.280 the industrial age to you know, the assembly line to 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.719 even modern management theory and efficiency in factories and in business, 0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:45.040 there's there's always been displacement and we've always found, you know, 0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:49.840 ways to innovate even around that, and people have always found, 0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:54.399 you know, new ways to to to labor and to work. 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:58.639 And I think there is some there are some reasons 0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:00.920 to believe. And I'm someone who spent a lot of time, 0:25:00.960 --> 0:25:03.520 you know, running a technology company over the past couple 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:06.560 of years I've had the chance to, you know, when 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:09.840 I lost my security clearance, some of the you know, 0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:14.640 the most strident and well known right wing trolls on 0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:18.680 Twitter told me that I should learn to code. I'm like, yeah, thanks, 0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:21.639 I did that six years ago. You know already did that. 0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:25.520 So I say that only to say that I've you know, 0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:30.399 spent a lot of time playing around, experimenting with and 0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:33.840 understanding AI tools and you know, their implications in the workplace. 0:25:33.920 --> 0:25:39.720 I am less bullish about the immediate, you know, wide 0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:41.919 scale impacts of this, because there are a lot of 0:25:41.920 --> 0:25:45.439 implementation issues, or a lot of data quality issues, hallucination issues, 0:25:45.480 --> 0:25:47.720 and all these sorts of things that I think even 0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:49.720 companies who have made a decision to lay off and 0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:51.880 displaced workers thinking they're going to be replaced with AI, 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:55.399 are going to see and relatively short order that that 0:25:55.480 --> 0:25:57.639 it is not the panacea that they might think it is. 0:25:58.440 --> 0:26:00.760 Even still, I do accept the premise that we are 0:26:00.760 --> 0:26:03.919 going to have some massive changes in the economy, uh 0:26:04.040 --> 0:26:06.520 and in the jobs that are available to people. And 0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:08.520 I think that there are there are two things we 0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:10.320 need to wrestle with. Is one like, okay, if a 0:26:10.359 --> 0:26:15.120 business finds a more efficient way to do something, well, great, 0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:17.440 they're going to have more profits. But now we're going 0:26:17.440 --> 0:26:19.800 to have more people on snap benefits. Now we're going 0:26:19.840 --> 0:26:22.760 to have more people, you know, needing Medicaid because they 0:26:22.760 --> 0:26:25.000 don't have healthcare. Because you know, all this activity in 0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:27.800 the economy has to come from somewhere. It has to come, 0:26:27.920 --> 0:26:30.400 you know, from from consumers buying things. And what I'm 0:26:30.440 --> 0:26:33.920 increasingly worried about is just that that the broad consumer 0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:36.440 base in this economy is just going to be completely 0:26:36.560 --> 0:26:39.040 left behind because the wealthy have enough at the top 0:26:39.119 --> 0:26:42.600 to continue pumping money into these businesses and these experiments 0:26:42.640 --> 0:26:44.520 and buying really expensive things. 0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:47.240 Now we're seeing it right now, You're where the high 0:26:47.400 --> 0:26:51.159 end consumer market is doing just fine. Yeah, but middle 0:26:51.359 --> 0:26:54.719 and long people are pulling back. People are saving money, 0:26:54.840 --> 0:26:58.359 and it's like this income and equality line is gap 0:26:58.480 --> 0:27:00.439 is just getting bigger and bigger. 0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:05.280 Yeah, And so tax policy is I think the number 0:27:05.280 --> 0:27:08.520 one thing that can address this. You don't have a 0:27:08.560 --> 0:27:12.480 situation where, you know, the America's first billionaire he died 0:27:12.480 --> 0:27:15.920 a billionaire, John Rockefeller in nineteen thirty seven. Bill Gates, 0:27:16.720 --> 0:27:20.240 fifty years later became the fifteenth billionaire, and thirty eight 0:27:20.280 --> 0:27:23.480 years since then, we now have seven hundred and fifty right, 0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:26.840 and you know, all of the gains in the economy 0:27:26.840 --> 0:27:28.960 since the early nineties or like fifty two percent of 0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:31.239 them have been captured by the top one percent. So 0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:34.640 there has to be a reckoning with this growing inequality. 0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:35.840 One, it's im moral. 0:27:35.880 --> 0:27:38.560 But two, anywhere in the world in history where you 0:27:38.600 --> 0:27:41.600 see fascism grow, it does so in the fertile fields 0:27:41.760 --> 0:27:45.159 of wealth inequality, and people get desperate, they turn to 0:27:45.200 --> 0:27:45.920 strong men who. 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:48.240 Say I alone can fix it right now. And that's 0:27:48.280 --> 0:27:48.600 I mean. 0:27:48.720 --> 0:27:50.640 I look at I talk about the fall of Turkey 0:27:51.080 --> 0:27:54.200 in Venezuela all the time to former democracies. 0:27:54.760 --> 0:27:56.879 I guess you could take Turkey. 0:27:56.560 --> 0:28:01.720 Is slightly higher on the democracy rating scale than Venezuela is. 0:28:02.119 --> 0:28:07.280 Buttheles right Air Dowan and Hugo Javez before Maduro, but 0:28:07.400 --> 0:28:10.280 Ugoshaves who sort of started this revolution. Both of them 0:28:10.359 --> 0:28:15.080 used frustration and poor communities to go after the so 0:28:15.160 --> 0:28:19.200 called elites right in Istanbul or Caracas. I mean, look, 0:28:19.320 --> 0:28:23.239 I assume this is your experience overseas, that this it is. 0:28:23.280 --> 0:28:26.480 There is a pattern here right where when they when 0:28:26.600 --> 0:28:28.720 there's a belief when the gap between rich and poor 0:28:28.760 --> 0:28:32.520 gets so big, you can weaponize the poor against the 0:28:32.560 --> 0:28:37.920 elites and the pitchforks will come. But democracy leaves. 0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:43.680 Yeah, and it's replaced with corruption and crony capitalism, every hypocrisy. 0:28:43.120 --> 0:28:43.680 Of some sort. 0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:47.520 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So we we do have to reckon 0:28:47.560 --> 0:28:50.080 with our tax policy that that I think has concentrated 0:28:50.080 --> 0:28:50.800 wealth at the top. 0:28:50.880 --> 0:28:53.080 That you know is certainly what does. 0:28:53.000 --> 0:28:55.520 That look like? Because I've heard this before and in frankly, 0:28:56.000 --> 0:28:58.680 you know, we you know, this is what we did 0:28:58.720 --> 0:29:01.160 one hundred years ago when we have all these robber barons. 0:29:01.800 --> 0:29:04.000 We passed the Amendment on the income tax. That was 0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:07.520 not about taxing Americans. That was about tax making sure 0:29:07.560 --> 0:29:11.400 the rich paid something back to this country that they 0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:16.240 were taking from it. And that's when property taxes became mainstream. 0:29:17.120 --> 0:29:17.680 Was back then. 0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:22.120 So what is what is today's answer? Because I agree 0:29:22.160 --> 0:29:24.720 that tax policy is probably the that's what a small 0:29:24.800 --> 0:29:29.400 d democracy should do in that sort of capitalism with guardrails. 0:29:29.920 --> 0:29:33.000 What what what large areas are you thinking when it 0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:37.520 comes to comes to tax policy and trying to close 0:29:37.560 --> 0:29:41.280 the income inequality gap without it coming across as redistribution, right, 0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:43.080 there's that fine line there, right. 0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:44.120 Sure. 0:29:45.880 --> 0:29:49.720 Well, one easy answer is something that that Ronald Reagan 0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:52.240 actually did and then in the late part of his 0:29:52.480 --> 0:29:57.480 second term, which is ensure that capital gains, you know, 0:29:57.520 --> 0:30:01.880 gains from investment were taxed same rate as your labor. 0:30:01.960 --> 0:30:05.560 I see no reason why people working forty eight sixty 0:30:05.600 --> 0:30:08.960 hours a week and are subject to payroll taxes. And 0:30:09.360 --> 0:30:11.280 you know, even if they don't make enough money to 0:30:11.360 --> 0:30:14.160 actually be subject to income taxes, they're paying a lot 0:30:14.160 --> 0:30:17.560 into to FIKA and into payroll taxes. And even in 0:30:17.640 --> 0:30:20.040 the you know, Reagan years, they found a way to say, hey, no, 0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:22.360 we're going to make sure that Okay, if you're if 0:30:22.400 --> 0:30:25.120 you're just putting money, you're making money off of money, 0:30:25.560 --> 0:30:27.400 well that's going to be taxed in the same way 0:30:27.520 --> 0:30:29.800 that making money off of you know, your labor or 0:30:29.800 --> 0:30:34.040 breaking your knees, you know, welding iron together and setting iron. 0:30:34.160 --> 0:30:35.760 Is that we're going to tax the same And that 0:30:35.760 --> 0:30:38.680 actually happened in this country for two years until George H. W. 0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:41.080 Bush undid that policy. And I don't remember if it 0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:42.960 was eighty eight or ninety, but one of those years 0:30:43.000 --> 0:30:43.560 check up on me. 0:30:44.240 --> 0:30:47.120 I think that that is a fairly easy place to start. 0:30:47.400 --> 0:30:49.400 And then the second thing, you know that we just 0:30:49.600 --> 0:30:52.560 have to deal with, are you know, the strategies that 0:30:52.640 --> 0:30:58.240 the ultra wealthy use to live off of their unrealized gains. 0:30:58.680 --> 0:31:01.080 You know, people will say, if I, if I have 0:31:01.160 --> 0:31:03.640 stock and it appreciates in value, but I haven't sold 0:31:03.640 --> 0:31:06.120 the stock, I didn't actually make any money. That's true, 0:31:06.880 --> 0:31:09.800 except that you also collateralized that stock and borrowed a 0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:11.560 lot of money from banks to be able to live 0:31:11.920 --> 0:31:15.680 off of. You know, you you accessed some value from 0:31:15.760 --> 0:31:18.200 that appreciation and that gain. And so I think even 0:31:18.240 --> 0:31:22.800 a simple policy like removing this by borrowde wealth preservations 0:31:23.680 --> 0:31:26.560 strategy that wealthy people use could also go some way 0:31:27.520 --> 0:31:30.960 and uh in curing or or making this a more 0:31:31.000 --> 0:31:31.880 equitable system. 0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:36.440 Basically, if you, if you UH obtain cash. 0:31:36.280 --> 0:31:38.760 Flow from those unrealized gains in any way, at that 0:31:38.840 --> 0:31:40.080 point it would be subject to tax. 0:31:40.080 --> 0:31:41.160 So these are kind of simple things. 0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:43.840 I think there's a lot of other complicated things that 0:31:44.640 --> 0:31:48.000 I'm sure academics and tax policy experts have a spectrum 0:31:48.080 --> 0:31:51.080 disagreement about. But I think you know, to your last 0:31:51.080 --> 0:31:53.920 point about redistribution, this is where democrats often get in 0:31:53.920 --> 0:31:56.560 trouble because everybody sees that, oh, well, we're going to tax, 0:31:56.800 --> 0:31:59.920 We're going to tax everybody more, uh, you know, hard 0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:02.120 working people, and then we're just going to do handouts 0:32:02.160 --> 0:32:03.560 to people who don't want to work. 0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:05.920 And this is just silliness, right. 0:32:06.000 --> 0:32:08.120 I believe that that's a myth for the most part, 0:32:08.240 --> 0:32:11.720 that most people receiving, whether they're SNAP benefits or medicaid 0:32:11.760 --> 0:32:12.320 or whatever. 0:32:12.120 --> 0:32:13.000 Actually do want to work. 0:32:13.040 --> 0:32:15.760 And I think forty million people on SNAP benefits, fifteen 0:32:15.760 --> 0:32:17.479 million of them do work full time. They don't make 0:32:17.600 --> 0:32:22.000 enough to actually be able to afford groceries. So I 0:32:22.040 --> 0:32:23.479 think we got to do away with some of those 0:32:23.560 --> 0:32:25.960 myths about the working poor in this country. 0:32:26.520 --> 0:32:29.840 But separately, rather than handing people. 0:32:30.280 --> 0:32:32.959 Money to go buy things, we as a country need 0:32:33.000 --> 0:32:35.480 to invest some of those proceeds into building more. 0:32:35.880 --> 0:32:39.240 We don't have enough high quality education in this country. 0:32:39.560 --> 0:32:42.920 We have an energy grid that is increasingly falling behind 0:32:43.000 --> 0:32:44.560 for the demands that are going to be placed on 0:32:44.600 --> 0:32:49.120 it by an aiicentric economy. We don't have enough hospitals 0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:50.960 and doctors. As I alluded to earlier, we need to 0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:53.520 invest in all of these things heavily, and infrastructure in 0:32:53.520 --> 0:32:54.000 this country. 0:32:55.240 --> 0:32:57.920 No, And it does seem though that there is a 0:32:57.960 --> 0:33:02.479 collective agreement on that. And yet you've seen this. This 0:33:02.600 --> 0:33:06.040 Congress doesn't function very well at the moment because we're 0:33:06.040 --> 0:33:09.200 in this you know, we're in this like forever cold 0:33:09.280 --> 0:33:10.760 war between red and blue. 0:33:12.080 --> 0:33:13.120 Yeah, and it. 0:33:13.920 --> 0:33:17.360 Is very dysfunctional. And even when you can have consensus, 0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:20.880 or even when you have you know, broad agreement on issues, 0:33:21.320 --> 0:33:24.600 you know, progress remains elusive. And I believe that it 0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:28.560 is just that this system has been captured by the 0:33:28.560 --> 0:33:33.000 political and economic elites that are entrenched interests. We have campaigns, 0:33:33.040 --> 0:33:35.680 you know, bought and paid for. Elon Musk invested forty 0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:42.320 something million dollars in getting President Trump reelected, and all 0:33:42.360 --> 0:33:44.120 of these parties you know, are looking out for their 0:33:44.160 --> 0:33:47.120 own interests, and they are the ones you know, funding politics. 0:33:47.120 --> 0:33:50.160 And we have tried to have grassroots campaigns over the 0:33:50.960 --> 0:33:54.520 you know, the past decade, but these relentless text messages 0:33:54.520 --> 0:33:57.560 and emails and candidates like myself have to send two 0:33:57.560 --> 0:34:00.120 people who already probably don't make much. 0:34:00.000 --> 0:34:02.360 No chip in five bucks to save democracy. 0:34:02.400 --> 0:34:04.200 And then a lot of that just goes back to, 0:34:04.400 --> 0:34:08.040 you know, paying for campaign consultants and all the absolute 0:34:08.120 --> 0:34:12.640 fundraiser makes the money. Yeah, it's absolute nonsense. And I 0:34:12.680 --> 0:34:16.560 think that that, you know, we have to start electing 0:34:16.600 --> 0:34:20.279 people to the Senate who understand the struggles of the 0:34:20.320 --> 0:34:24.080 working poor in this country. We talk about how much 0:34:24.160 --> 0:34:27.560 representation matters, you know, especially as Democrats, and we mean 0:34:27.600 --> 0:34:29.480 that in a variety of different ways, but one way 0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:32.560 in which we don't explicitly talk about it is do 0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:34.520 poor people see themselves. 0:34:34.080 --> 0:34:36.480 In any of the people that are elected to represent them? 0:34:36.800 --> 0:34:41.200 And I would say that they do not, because you know, 0:34:41.400 --> 0:34:44.359 many people who seek office year after year, cycle after 0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:47.960 cycle and win or lose. I just don't think they 0:34:47.960 --> 0:34:50.560 have much in common with the people who who they 0:34:50.600 --> 0:34:51.560 are trying to represent. 0:34:51.600 --> 0:34:53.520 And I think that that representation matters a lot. 0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:58.200 So, And I'm not like asking you to throw shade 0:34:58.160 --> 0:35:03.080 at potential primary opponents I may already have. Yeah, sorry, 0:35:03.120 --> 0:35:05.960 why did why does Andy Basheer succeed and why did 0:35:06.000 --> 0:35:08.280 an Amy McGrath fail in twenty twenty? 0:35:09.760 --> 0:35:12.680 Yeah, I mean there's there are a lot of you know, 0:35:12.719 --> 0:35:16.279 contributing factors, and you know why you should ask Amy 0:35:16.280 --> 0:35:18.400 what her assessment of that race is. 0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:19.879 I'm sure that she had all. 0:35:19.760 --> 0:35:22.239 The money in the world, all that money in the world. 0:35:22.400 --> 0:35:24.560 This was not a she didn't This was not a 0:35:24.560 --> 0:35:30.200 financial issue. So this became a you know, the you know, 0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:33.560 an old marketing slogan was that the dog that doesn't 0:35:33.560 --> 0:35:35.479 matter how much money you throw behind the dog food, 0:35:35.520 --> 0:35:36.920 if the dogs won't eat the dog food. 0:35:37.640 --> 0:35:42.279 Yeah, you know, it's not gonna work. Why didn't it work? Yeah? 0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:45.000 Again, she would probably be much more uh, you know, 0:35:45.080 --> 0:35:47.640 qualified to share an assessment with you on that. I 0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:50.640 will say Amy McGrath. McGrath has an incredible life story. 0:35:50.680 --> 0:35:52.600 She's a patriot that you know, has served her country 0:35:52.640 --> 0:35:56.040 and she she's been in this fight. I think my 0:35:56.160 --> 0:36:00.440 assessment is that in a place like Kentucky, and it's 0:36:00.440 --> 0:36:04.680 a state that has been you know, that has put 0:36:04.719 --> 0:36:07.080 its faith in its trust in Donald Trump, you know, 0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:10.160 three times three three elections in a row, and it 0:36:11.120 --> 0:36:14.160 you know, voters here believed the promises that he made 0:36:14.160 --> 0:36:17.000 and believed that he was going to be looking out 0:36:17.000 --> 0:36:17.359 for them. 0:36:17.400 --> 0:36:18.680 And when when. 0:36:18.719 --> 0:36:22.960 Democrats don't actually offer an alternative vision, when they sometimes 0:36:22.960 --> 0:36:26.160 speak in ways that sound just kind of republican but 0:36:26.239 --> 0:36:28.400 just a little less republican, I don't think voters can 0:36:28.440 --> 0:36:30.760 really tell the difference, and so if you got people 0:36:30.800 --> 0:36:32.560 on the fence, they're going to just vote for the 0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:36.360 Republican and Andy Bisheer, didn't you know do that? This 0:36:36.440 --> 0:36:38.359 is a governor who led with his values in both 0:36:38.360 --> 0:36:40.800 of his campaigns. He didn't shy away from talking about 0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:43.120 hard things, but he explained his choices, his decisions and 0:36:43.239 --> 0:36:48.080 reasons for different things, and decisions he would make and 0:36:48.120 --> 0:36:51.200 policies he would advocate for. And even people who disagreed 0:36:51.239 --> 0:36:54.000 with Andy Bushier said that they trusted him and they 0:36:54.000 --> 0:36:55.960 thought that he would look out for them. And then 0:36:56.000 --> 0:36:59.360 he has shown up. We've had fourteen natural disasters or 0:36:59.360 --> 0:37:02.359 something declared in the state of Kentucky over the past 0:37:02.360 --> 0:37:04.880 couple of years or during his administration. This isn't a 0:37:04.880 --> 0:37:07.080 guy who hides in the governor's mansion. He's been out, 0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:10.439 He's been present with people, and I think that even 0:37:10.480 --> 0:37:14.920 when they disagree with them are in marginal things, that 0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:16.960 he has their back on the major thing. 0:37:17.040 --> 0:37:19.320 So I think that that's probably the big difference. 0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:21.520 What do you think is the best way to win 0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:24.160 win over somebody who voted for Donald Trump in twenty 0:37:24.200 --> 0:37:27.279 twenty four to vote for Joel Willett in twenty twenty six. 0:37:28.200 --> 0:37:32.400 Yeah, I would just ask those voters do they see 0:37:32.440 --> 0:37:35.440 more of themselves in Joel Willett or in Donald Trump. 0:37:35.840 --> 0:37:39.600 Donald Trump's net worth has increased three billion dollars according 0:37:39.640 --> 0:37:42.560 to the most recent estimates since January twentieth. How's your 0:37:42.560 --> 0:37:46.759 bottom line doing Kentucky? Wages are stagnant, costs are up, 0:37:47.120 --> 0:37:50.560 you can't afford groceries. They're actively trying to take your 0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:53.279 health care. This man went to the Supreme Court this 0:37:53.400 --> 0:37:57.040 week to try to get permission to not give people 0:37:57.080 --> 0:38:01.399 money to buying groceries in this administration, sure that Republicans 0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:04.880 in the Senate couldn't negotiate a deal with Democrats so 0:38:04.920 --> 0:38:08.000 that Americans wouldn't be faced with this unconscionable choice between 0:38:08.160 --> 0:38:11.359 being able to afford groceries or seeing a doctor when 0:38:11.400 --> 0:38:14.200 they get sick. And I would just ask voters to 0:38:14.320 --> 0:38:16.359 keep asking themselves why that is? 0:38:16.880 --> 0:38:19.160 Do you believe that this man has your back? 0:38:19.960 --> 0:38:21.839 And I think there is ample evidence at this point 0:38:21.840 --> 0:38:26.200 between his ballrooms, his own increase in his wealth, and 0:38:26.200 --> 0:38:27.760 these other policies he does. 0:38:27.640 --> 0:38:31.080 Not definitely has a gilded age feeling to it. 0:38:31.120 --> 0:38:33.879 Doesn't it like, yeah, let them cake whatever, you want 0:38:33.880 --> 0:38:36.880 to whatever cliche you want to pick. It feels it 0:38:36.960 --> 0:38:44.080 like you're just like, yeah, the pictures are jarring. Having 0:38:44.120 --> 0:38:48.440 good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from personal experience. 0:38:48.640 --> 0:38:50.959 I was sixteen when my father passed away. We didn't 0:38:50.960 --> 0:38:54.120 have any money. He didn't leave us in the best shape. 0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:58.400 My mother, single mother, now widow. Myself sixteen try to 0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:00.400 figure out how am I going to pay for college? 0:39:00.520 --> 0:39:03.560 And lo and behold. My dad had one life insurance 0:39:03.600 --> 0:39:06.520 policy that we found wasn't a lot, but it was 0:39:06.600 --> 0:39:09.680 important at the time, and it's why I was able 0:39:09.800 --> 0:39:13.160 to go to college. Little did he know how important 0:39:13.160 --> 0:39:17.000 that would be in that moment. Well, guess what. 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Application times may vary, and the rates themselves 0:40:16.440 --> 0:40:19.360 may vary as well, but trust me, life insurance is 0:40:19.360 --> 0:40:22.200 something you should really think about it, especially if you've 0:40:22.200 --> 0:40:27.839 got a growing family. Well, it leads me, and look, 0:40:28.280 --> 0:40:31.600 this is by the time this airs, the shutdown is over, 0:40:31.719 --> 0:40:34.120 it's behind it. So we're taping when they're in the 0:40:34.160 --> 0:40:38.480 middle of it ending. And I'm one of those who 0:40:38.520 --> 0:40:41.680 are empathetic to I get. I understand the rationale on 0:40:41.760 --> 0:40:43.400 both sides of this argument inside. 0:40:43.120 --> 0:40:44.640 The Democratic Party. 0:40:45.680 --> 0:40:49.120 One that says, hey, they're squirming, why give up now? 0:40:49.520 --> 0:40:50.080 The other that. 0:40:50.120 --> 0:40:56.840 Says he's taking away snap benefits, he's putting the travel 0:40:56.920 --> 0:41:03.440 system under duress. Somebody's got to be the adult in 0:41:03.480 --> 0:41:05.879 the room here. And oh, by the way, if you're 0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:08.640 trying if the whole point of this was to bring 0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:14.160 more attention to healthcare, that's been a mission accomplished. And 0:41:14.200 --> 0:41:16.719 then now the burden is on them to either deal 0:41:16.800 --> 0:41:19.520 with this or watch out. In twenty twenty six, this 0:41:19.600 --> 0:41:23.799 becomes a certainly a populist issue. So obviously you could 0:41:23.800 --> 0:41:25.760 see I can argue one side of this. I understand 0:41:25.800 --> 0:41:29.200 the other that, hey, the shutdown's gone politically really well 0:41:29.239 --> 0:41:32.440 for the Democrats, and Trump has made all sorts of 0:41:32.480 --> 0:41:36.239 mistakes like advocating to not pay snap benefits even when 0:41:36.239 --> 0:41:38.600 a judge says to do it, and the Speaker of 0:41:38.600 --> 0:41:42.120 the House is abdicated responsibility, right, Like, I can I 0:41:42.239 --> 0:41:46.719 get the arguments and I couldn't I hear both of them. 0:41:47.640 --> 0:41:51.080 Where do you fall on this argument? And I'm mindful 0:41:51.080 --> 0:41:53.160 that you're in a Democratic primary at the moment. 0:41:53.960 --> 0:41:57.560 Yeah, but I'm not someone who is going to ever 0:41:57.840 --> 0:41:59.920 play hide the ball with the people that I want 0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:01.759 to vote for me and the people that I want 0:42:01.760 --> 0:42:07.160 to represent. So in that spirit, I believe that the 0:42:07.200 --> 0:42:10.240 deal that was just struck is a betrayal of working families, 0:42:10.280 --> 0:42:15.520 in this country. And I'm absolutely disgusted by this choice, 0:42:15.560 --> 0:42:19.600 with the with the eight Democrats who who broke pretty 0:42:19.640 --> 0:42:22.279 angry about this, I am very fired up, Chuck. I 0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:25.439 went to bed mad and angry last night. I woke 0:42:25.520 --> 0:42:29.560 up this morning the same exact way. And while yes, 0:42:29.600 --> 0:42:32.560 there are you know arguments there, I you know, we're 0:42:32.560 --> 0:42:35.319 fond of, you know, saying in sports and when we're 0:42:35.360 --> 0:42:37.680 trying to encourage people to to you know, get in 0:42:37.719 --> 0:42:39.960 there and fight and play a game, we said, well, hey, 0:42:40.000 --> 0:42:42.200 you can't win if you don't play. But I want 0:42:42.239 --> 0:42:45.359 to quote my favorite, probably one of my favorite TV 0:42:45.480 --> 0:42:47.680 series of all times, The Wire, and I'm sure this 0:42:47.800 --> 0:42:51.080 was a David Simon line, but one of the characters 0:42:51.080 --> 0:42:54.840 told the police chief, you can't lose if you don't play, 0:42:55.400 --> 0:42:57.839 and that is I think some of the energy Democrats 0:42:57.880 --> 0:43:00.560 needed here. If the Republicans wanted the government and open, 0:43:00.840 --> 0:43:03.360 they found ways to force through the you know, the. 0:43:03.360 --> 0:43:05.880 Big bullshit bill back in July. 0:43:06.000 --> 0:43:11.359 They did that right with without getting the support that 0:43:11.440 --> 0:43:14.240 you know they wanted from Democrats. They could have funded 0:43:14.280 --> 0:43:16.360 and reopened the government the same way. Not sure there 0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:18.960 would have been some procedural issues and delays and things 0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:20.680 like that. They could have gotten it done if they 0:43:20.719 --> 0:43:24.040 wanted to. Democrats did not need to go support this. 0:43:24.239 --> 0:43:28.760 And yes, it is terrible to watch people potentially lose 0:43:28.880 --> 0:43:31.319 their their SNAP or food stamp benefits. I was on 0:43:31.400 --> 0:43:34.120 food stamps as a kid. I know what that's like. 0:43:34.200 --> 0:43:35.799 You know, when my parents had to make decisions between 0:43:35.840 --> 0:43:37.880 being able to afford groceries or putting gas in the 0:43:37.920 --> 0:43:39.480 car to get to a job so they can make 0:43:39.520 --> 0:43:42.840 money to buy more food. I get that personally, but 0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:45.400 it is not Democrats that have made those choices. It 0:43:45.440 --> 0:43:47.840 was not Democrats going to the Supreme Court to try 0:43:47.920 --> 0:43:52.960 to get permission to not pay SNAP benefits. That was 0:43:53.000 --> 0:43:57.600 Donald Trump. That was Republican enablers in Congress. Democrats had 0:43:57.600 --> 0:44:00.719 a very radical idea throughout this shutdown. Maybe in the 0:44:00.760 --> 0:44:04.400 most prosperous country on earth, with thirty trillion dollars in GDP, 0:44:05.480 --> 0:44:08.600 we can have a country where people can afford groceries 0:44:09.000 --> 0:44:11.080 and be able to see a doctor if you get sick. 0:44:11.320 --> 0:44:13.520 That seemed like a pretty noble fight to me. And 0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:16.160 I don't understand, you know, when we've had millions of 0:44:16.200 --> 0:44:18.440 voters across this country, in Virginia and New Jersey, in 0:44:18.480 --> 0:44:22.640 California and New York show up just this week, right, 0:44:23.239 --> 0:44:26.360 you know, over the past seven days, rather to support 0:44:26.400 --> 0:44:27.520 a party that it's a. 0:44:27.440 --> 0:44:29.920 Fighting for them, to just immediately turn. 0:44:29.800 --> 0:44:31.799 Around and say, why why do you assume the fight's over? 0:44:31.960 --> 0:44:34.960 I mean, this is a temporary opening. You know. I 0:44:35.000 --> 0:44:38.799 could if you made me have to message it sort 0:44:38.840 --> 0:44:42.160 of on your I would say something like, look, we're 0:44:42.160 --> 0:44:44.880 not going to we're not going to make people have 0:44:44.960 --> 0:44:49.600 to ration food because this administration is going to do it. 0:44:49.600 --> 0:44:52.680 But we're going to keep fighting for healthcare and come January, 0:44:52.719 --> 0:44:54.920 if they don't do this, we're shutting this place down again. 0:44:55.719 --> 0:44:59.520 And what's wrong? What is wrong with that strategy? 0:45:00.560 --> 0:45:02.919 Because you do sort of try to strike I could 0:45:03.000 --> 0:45:07.240 argue that it strikes the balance between you know, helping 0:45:07.320 --> 0:45:11.839 in the immediate term and again I think, look, we're 0:45:11.840 --> 0:45:14.080 playing with fire with what's going on with their traffic 0:45:14.120 --> 0:45:16.640 control and not paying these folks and and all of 0:45:16.640 --> 0:45:17.080 this stuff. 0:45:17.120 --> 0:45:19.000 And I take it we had a we had a 0:45:19.000 --> 0:45:21.560 crash here and right, we don't know if. 0:45:21.360 --> 0:45:24.480 That had an was that impacted by right and we 0:45:24.520 --> 0:45:27.040 can't say for sure, but we know we've put these 0:45:27.040 --> 0:45:29.480 people under duress meaning they've got to work with a 0:45:29.560 --> 0:45:34.160 promise to be paid right, which I've never met the 0:45:34.239 --> 0:45:37.000 landlord that said that, hey, I'm gonna post date this 0:45:37.200 --> 0:45:39.160 check just you know, I just don't know when I 0:45:39.160 --> 0:45:42.640 have to get to post date it. Do you not 0:45:42.760 --> 0:45:45.520 accept the premise that there's time to fight keep fighting 0:45:45.560 --> 0:45:49.080 for this in two months? 0:45:49.480 --> 0:45:52.600 I think when you look at the eight Democrats who 0:45:52.719 --> 0:45:57.080 voted for this, it sort of betrays the parties thinking 0:45:57.160 --> 0:45:59.759 that they don't really buy this premise either. None of 0:45:59.800 --> 0:46:02.920 those people are facing reelection next cycle. To my knowledge, 0:46:03.560 --> 0:46:06.560 find me one person who wants to run on this 0:46:06.640 --> 0:46:08.560 compromise right now next cycle. 0:46:08.640 --> 0:46:10.720 I don't think you find that Democrat any. 0:46:10.680 --> 0:46:12.640 What's the running the compromise? I think the question is 0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:16.000 whether you're running. You know, you get to keep running 0:46:16.000 --> 0:46:18.720 on healthcare? I would argue you do, oh. 0:46:18.560 --> 0:46:22.400 Sure, because but the problem is you've got tens of 0:46:22.440 --> 0:46:25.480 millions of Americans who are absolutely now going to see 0:46:25.520 --> 0:46:28.600 premium increases or they're going to go without health care. 0:46:28.640 --> 0:46:30.760 That is now a fact that is going to happen. 0:46:31.120 --> 0:46:33.359 And you know a lot of people are like, oh, 0:46:33.360 --> 0:46:35.200 do you trust Republicans that they're actually going to give 0:46:35.239 --> 0:46:37.200 you a vote on this or whatever. It's like, Okay, 0:46:38.000 --> 0:46:41.080 I think you know, Thune has been very public that 0:46:41.120 --> 0:46:42.360 there is going to be a vote and it's going 0:46:42.400 --> 0:46:43.920 to happen on such and such date and all that. 0:46:43.960 --> 0:46:45.000 So take them out the where there's going to be 0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:46.960 a vote. Is that going to accomplish? Do you think 0:46:47.000 --> 0:46:53.320 magically Republicans are going to extend these enhanced subsidies? 0:46:53.520 --> 0:46:56.360 I think enough, because I think they're petrified of this. 0:46:56.640 --> 0:47:00.080 I think they're absolutely petrified of the impact. Commiss I 0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:03.240 think they're looking her way out. Yeah, we'll see, right. 0:47:03.200 --> 0:47:05.560 And so I don't have that level of faith right 0:47:05.600 --> 0:47:08.719 now because they are beholden to Donald Trump. And this 0:47:08.840 --> 0:47:12.080 is a man who who who found his affordability narrative 0:47:12.120 --> 0:47:15.600 for a maximum of five hours one night before he 0:47:15.840 --> 0:47:16.960 the next day said. 0:47:16.920 --> 0:47:18.399 Don't talk to me about affordability. 0:47:19.040 --> 0:47:21.680 I mean they are going to do whatever he says, 0:47:21.719 --> 0:47:24.000 and until he's out there saying the impersonation is. 0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:25.480 Noted there, Joel, I see that. 0:47:25.840 --> 0:47:28.080 It's incredible. Check you. 0:47:30.080 --> 0:47:31.040 Got to keep that up. 0:47:31.239 --> 0:47:32.040 What bory is it? 0:47:32.160 --> 0:47:33.880 Just have or do you have others that you're pretty 0:47:33.880 --> 0:47:34.200 good at? 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:38.520 Oh well, we'll save those for future besodes. My wife 0:47:38.560 --> 0:47:42.120 hates my impersonations by the way. Oh, she's got to 0:47:42.120 --> 0:47:43.680 be the biggest fat she can't do that to you. 0:47:44.080 --> 0:47:46.440 I just want to discourage it. And I've got a 0:47:46.520 --> 0:47:49.000 shared brown impersonation that I've always been really proud of. 0:47:49.920 --> 0:47:50.400 Ground to be. 0:47:50.800 --> 0:47:52.320 I just need, you know, with the men and the 0:47:52.400 --> 0:47:54.000 working men and wavebow. You know, you got to you 0:47:54.040 --> 0:47:56.920 gotta have the dignity of work. There rol. 0:47:58.400 --> 0:47:59.840 That does very good and quick aside. 0:47:59.840 --> 0:48:04.800 I was was able to uh see Carl Rove and 0:48:05.120 --> 0:48:11.360 Paul Lagala do a fireside chat last last fall, and 0:48:11.680 --> 0:48:14.160 both of them, I mean, Karl Rove has an uh, 0:48:14.440 --> 0:48:16.680 you know, an incredible impersonation of Donald Trump and an 0:48:16.680 --> 0:48:19.759 even better one of George W. Bush, the president that 0:48:19.880 --> 0:48:22.880 he served so firstly, and Paul Lagala busted into a 0:48:22.920 --> 0:48:26.759 Bill Clinton uh that would deceive anyone. And I just 0:48:26.760 --> 0:48:28.960 thought that was very impressive that the presidents that they 0:48:29.000 --> 0:48:30.719 had served, that they had just kind of embodied their 0:48:30.800 --> 0:48:32.360 voice so realistically. 0:48:32.360 --> 0:48:34.399 Well it makes you wonder did they embody their voice 0:48:34.480 --> 0:48:37.000 or did the do the president's embody the voices of 0:48:37.040 --> 0:48:40.440 their chief strategistic Yeah, you know who's pulling this strength now, 0:48:40.440 --> 0:48:46.279 I'm kidding I'm kidding on that front. So I take 0:48:46.280 --> 0:48:48.720 it that if there's no deal on healthcare, you'd say, 0:48:48.920 --> 0:48:51.840 you think that this that these that shut down the 0:48:51.840 --> 0:48:53.400 government in January again. 0:48:53.520 --> 0:48:56.600 Right, Yeah, I don't see what choice. 0:48:56.680 --> 0:48:58.640 I mean, look, I say this as a civil servant, 0:48:58.719 --> 0:49:03.359 and and and perhaps I should you know, lead with my. 0:49:05.400 --> 0:49:07.920 You know, I understand I've lived through shutdowns. I had. 0:49:07.960 --> 0:49:08.759 I was always a. 0:49:08.880 --> 0:49:13.080 You know, a an essential employee doing government shutdowns and 0:49:13.120 --> 0:49:16.960 had you know, pay at risk, and they got paid. Yeah, 0:49:17.480 --> 0:49:19.440 it always came back. But even if there was like 0:49:19.480 --> 0:49:22.719 a you know, a temporary you know, blip in it, 0:49:22.960 --> 0:49:25.839 you you you're not getting paid that much anyways, right, 0:49:25.920 --> 0:49:28.080 and you you continue to show up and it's it's 0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:29.680 work that you care about. But ultimately, you know, you've 0:49:29.680 --> 0:49:32.760 got to be able to afford things. And I don't 0:49:32.960 --> 0:49:35.680 want to use public servants as a as a political 0:49:35.680 --> 0:49:37.879 football in that way. But we cannot be the only 0:49:37.920 --> 0:49:39.680 party that cares about that. 0:49:40.000 --> 0:49:40.239 One. 0:49:40.480 --> 0:49:42.880 One side of the spectrum right now is letting Donald 0:49:42.880 --> 0:49:45.480 Trump just run rough shot over the entire federal government, 0:49:45.480 --> 0:49:49.480 dismantling civil servants, civil service that we fought so hard 0:49:49.480 --> 0:49:51.840 to build in an a political way, in this country, 0:49:51.960 --> 0:49:54.440 and uh, you know, so I get Tim Kane when 0:49:54.560 --> 0:49:57.440 when he's trying to support federal workers, but you know 0:49:57.480 --> 0:50:00.080 the same is true from our corner, and so so 0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:03.120 I do think this is uh, we have to keep fighting. 0:50:03.160 --> 0:50:07.239 But like Democrats have to read the room the do 0:50:07.280 --> 0:50:09.200 you think Schumer should resign as party leader? 0:50:11.239 --> 0:50:15.520 I I think that there are very valid and open 0:50:15.600 --> 0:50:16.399 questions about that. 0:50:16.520 --> 0:50:17.359 I want. 0:50:17.400 --> 0:50:19.840 I don't know Chuck Schumer. I've not met with Chuck Schumer. 0:50:21.160 --> 0:50:25.640 You know, I get that, you know there is a 0:50:25.640 --> 0:50:28.239 lot going on behind the scenes, and you know, for. 0:50:28.200 --> 0:50:31.040 A party that is out of power, and so. 0:50:32.560 --> 0:50:35.200 You know that's that's not something I'm prepared to say, 0:50:35.200 --> 0:50:36.160 as we said here. 0:50:36.000 --> 0:50:37.560 But it is an open question. In my mind. 0:50:38.800 --> 0:50:41.280 Doesn't sound like somebody, if you won, you would support 0:50:41.360 --> 0:50:42.680 keeping Chuck Schumer as a leader. 0:50:42.719 --> 0:50:45.720 If you had a vote, it would be a difficult 0:50:45.760 --> 0:50:49.240 vote for me to take today, I will say that before. 0:50:49.040 --> 0:50:50.719 I let you go. I'm just curious. You know. I 0:50:50.960 --> 0:50:55.400 just interviewed Governor Basheer earlier this weekend. It's on a 0:50:55.480 --> 0:50:59.400 new sphere, which is another sort of independent media outlet, 0:50:59.520 --> 0:51:05.640 and he said something interesting. I said, you know, I said, 0:51:06.080 --> 0:51:09.359 he was talking about tariffs, and this is a case 0:51:09.400 --> 0:51:12.239 where Andy Basheer, Mitch McConnell, and Ran Paul are all 0:51:12.280 --> 0:51:14.200 on the same page. And he basically said, if all 0:51:14.239 --> 0:51:17.200 three of us are agreeing on something, maybe there's something there. 0:51:17.560 --> 0:51:20.120 What do you make of Rand Paul? And I say 0:51:20.120 --> 0:51:23.279 this because if you win, that's a senator, you know, 0:51:24.120 --> 0:51:26.319 the States senators, you know, no matter even if you're 0:51:26.360 --> 0:51:28.320 from different parties, at times you need to work together. 0:51:28.640 --> 0:51:30.279 What do you make of him? And what do you 0:51:30.320 --> 0:51:32.680 make of his attempts at seeking a little bit of 0:51:32.719 --> 0:51:35.160 distance from from Trump World in a way that we 0:51:35.200 --> 0:51:36.680 haven't seen in the past. 0:51:38.600 --> 0:51:43.520 Ran Paul is an idiosyncratic senator to say the least. 0:51:43.520 --> 0:51:47.839 You know, his views will sometimes overlap in very weird 0:51:48.000 --> 0:51:51.040 or align, you know, in very strange and unexpected ways. 0:51:51.120 --> 0:51:53.879 It's a weird ven diagram, isn't it? 0:51:53.880 --> 0:51:55.920 It? Very much? Is I mean? But we have this 0:51:55.960 --> 0:51:57.880 in Kentucky with Thomas Massey as well. 0:51:57.960 --> 0:52:01.920 You've got liberals across the state celebrating Thomas Massey's willingness 0:52:01.920 --> 0:52:06.360 to stand up, you know, for the release of the 0:52:06.360 --> 0:52:08.680 Epstein files, which, by the way, this issue is not 0:52:08.800 --> 0:52:10.240 going to go away either. 0:52:10.600 --> 0:52:13.040 Those finals I believe will see the light of day. 0:52:13.280 --> 0:52:16.839 They have to. Voters are demanding it. But you make a. 0:52:16.760 --> 0:52:19.640 Broader point just about you know how we have to 0:52:19.640 --> 0:52:23.280 work together. No one senator can promise to get anything 0:52:23.480 --> 0:52:26.000 done on their own. You have to build relationships. You 0:52:26.080 --> 0:52:27.960 have to be able to work across the aisle. And 0:52:28.239 --> 0:52:30.800 I'm not somebody who presentds just to be some above 0:52:30.840 --> 0:52:33.279 it all centrist. I am not, and I, like I said, 0:52:33.320 --> 0:52:35.759 We'll always tell voters you know where I stand on things, 0:52:35.760 --> 0:52:37.160 and my mind is made up on something. 0:52:37.200 --> 0:52:39.640 I'm not going to hide from you what I believe 0:52:39.680 --> 0:52:40.080 about it. 0:52:40.600 --> 0:52:44.160 But that doesn't absolve me or any senator or any 0:52:44.280 --> 0:52:48.840 congressman of a responsibility to represent all the people in 0:52:48.880 --> 0:52:51.520 our states, because it is inevitable in a state like 0:52:51.600 --> 0:52:55.000 Kentucky if I win, you know, there are going to 0:52:55.000 --> 0:52:57.279 be lots of people here who did not vote for me, 0:52:57.480 --> 0:52:59.520 and they deserve a voice and they deserve. 0:52:59.600 --> 0:53:00.800 Representation as well. 0:53:01.600 --> 0:53:03.960 The problem that we have right now in this country 0:53:04.280 --> 0:53:09.120 is that you know, you can have seventy five million 0:53:09.120 --> 0:53:14.240 people vote for Kamala Harris and marginally more millions vote 0:53:14.239 --> 0:53:16.880 for for Trump, and they pretend that the score was 0:53:16.880 --> 0:53:19.160 one hundred to nothing, I know, and then all the 0:53:19.200 --> 0:53:20.400 other people didn't exist. 0:53:20.440 --> 0:53:22.000 You don't you didn't win that sualy. 0:53:21.840 --> 0:53:24.160 Not what our founders intended. They assumed it was going 0:53:24.239 --> 0:53:26.839 to be a messy compromise constantly. 0:53:27.360 --> 0:53:30.160 Yeah, and so you know, we have to be able 0:53:30.200 --> 0:53:30.560 to do that. 0:53:30.680 --> 0:53:33.840 So you know, I would, I would work with you 0:53:33.880 --> 0:53:37.160 know which who would then be the senior senator from 0:53:37.160 --> 0:53:39.320 the state of Kentucky to take care of working families 0:53:39.640 --> 0:53:42.279 in this state. They deserve a voice, they deserve representation, 0:53:43.160 --> 0:53:47.400 and we need solutions minded politicians. And that's exactly what 0:53:47.400 --> 0:53:47.799 I would be. 0:53:48.520 --> 0:53:51.719 Outside of Kentucky. Who's the US Senator that so far 0:53:51.800 --> 0:53:52.960 you've been the most impressed with. 0:53:55.440 --> 0:53:58.520 You know, It's funny, somebody asked me, asked me that 0:53:58.600 --> 0:54:00.200 question a few weeks so, not who I was most 0:54:00.200 --> 0:54:00.680 impressed with. 0:54:00.719 --> 0:54:01.919 I was able to say a few. 0:54:02.080 --> 0:54:05.239 But I'm I'm gonna I'm going to continue to give 0:54:05.880 --> 0:54:09.200 Chris Murphy props. I have appreciated, you know, he's been 0:54:09.239 --> 0:54:15.040 a very level headed senator. He speaks passionately about you know, 0:54:16.160 --> 0:54:19.080 a lot of issues, but you know, particularly he's someone 0:54:19.160 --> 0:54:21.520 you know, I talked about, you know, my dad dying 0:54:21.520 --> 0:54:24.440 a uniquely American death from fentanyl. Well there's another uniquely 0:54:24.480 --> 0:54:27.880 American death, and that's to get killed at your elementary school. 0:54:28.719 --> 0:54:31.399 And you know, when you've got senators, you know, who 0:54:31.480 --> 0:54:35.520 are completely owned by the NRA, that that aren't you even 0:54:35.480 --> 0:54:38.759 looking out for response responsible gun owners anymore? You know. 0:54:38.800 --> 0:54:41.200 I've just been impressed with, you know, his leadership on 0:54:41.239 --> 0:54:43.480 that issue and other things, and somebody who I think 0:54:43.520 --> 0:54:45.080 is intelligent, whose heart's in the right place. 0:54:45.080 --> 0:54:48.839 And yeah, so I admired, admire that guy. 0:54:49.080 --> 0:54:51.960 And I take it that Governor Bursheer is your pick 0:54:52.000 --> 0:54:53.880 for president in twenty twenty eight because you got a 0:54:54.000 --> 0:54:55.719 you're going to be a home state guy. Is he? 0:54:55.880 --> 0:54:58.960 Is he running? Is running? I don't know. I don't 0:54:58.960 --> 0:55:00.560 think he's U I don't so. 0:55:00.560 --> 0:55:03.480 Yeah, look at you doing a little bit of blocking 0:55:03.520 --> 0:55:04.880 and tackling that I don't. 0:55:05.000 --> 0:55:08.239 Look at twenty twenty six, right, Yeah, of course, and 0:55:08.320 --> 0:55:09.399 that does have to be our folks. 0:55:09.440 --> 0:55:10.239 I will tell you this, I. 0:55:11.800 --> 0:55:15.480 Do not believe, and I know Gavin Newsom has been 0:55:15.600 --> 0:55:17.600 very public in saying this. I've been saying it privately 0:55:17.640 --> 0:55:20.400 for months that this administration intends to have free and 0:55:20.400 --> 0:55:23.520 fair elections in twenty twenty eight. And so if your 0:55:23.840 --> 0:55:26.919 listeners care at all about our two hundred and fifty 0:55:26.960 --> 0:55:30.520 year experiment with democracy here or liberal democracy in America, 0:55:30.560 --> 0:55:33.320 it is imperative that we turn out in massive numbers 0:55:33.440 --> 0:55:35.400 in twenty twenty six. I believe it's one of our 0:55:35.440 --> 0:55:39.440 last chances to provide accountability for this administration and to 0:55:39.600 --> 0:55:43.319 ensure that Americans have a free and fair choice, whether 0:55:43.360 --> 0:55:45.239 that be for Andy Basheer or anyone else in twenty 0:55:45.280 --> 0:55:45.719 twenty eight. 0:55:45.719 --> 0:55:47.360 So I don't think the stakes could be any higher. 0:55:47.520 --> 0:55:49.480 And I will say Andy Basheer has been an incredible 0:55:50.040 --> 0:55:52.920 governor of this state, and he's shown a path to 0:55:53.000 --> 0:55:54.839 victory here for Democrats who want to lead with their 0:55:54.920 --> 0:55:56.680 values to respect him for that. 0:55:57.480 --> 0:55:59.479 Let me get chatty here on this because you worked 0:55:59.480 --> 0:56:02.120 in the intelgen's community, and I've been working with some people, 0:56:02.239 --> 0:56:05.799 former members of the intelligence community on an exercise on 0:56:05.840 --> 0:56:06.600 trust and media. 0:56:07.080 --> 0:56:09.440 And it's not just about media and journalists. It's more 0:56:09.480 --> 0:56:14.160 about the information ecosystem and what happens if you have 0:56:14.360 --> 0:56:17.000 bad intelligence. Like I'm working with people who are nervous 0:56:17.040 --> 0:56:20.200 that the information you know, we already know. There's a 0:56:20.200 --> 0:56:24.040 lot of misinformation and disinformation out there, and that if 0:56:24.040 --> 0:56:27.640 we don't figure out clean ways to get information, then 0:56:27.680 --> 0:56:31.759 we're going to make terrible national security decisions. Like how 0:56:31.840 --> 0:56:34.880 bad is the flow of intelligence these days? Do you 0:56:36.239 --> 0:56:39.839 is it in considering sort of how much we've alienated 0:56:39.840 --> 0:56:42.560 some of our key allies, you know, in the in 0:56:42.600 --> 0:56:45.120 the world of the Five Eyes, all the English language 0:56:46.120 --> 0:56:49.719 allies of ours that I get the impression that there's 0:56:49.800 --> 0:56:53.000 either concern that you know, we've got too many leaks 0:56:53.040 --> 0:56:55.680 in our system or all of our stuff. There's one 0:56:55.800 --> 0:56:59.560 country in particular that gets access to intelligence without telling 0:56:59.600 --> 0:57:01.920 them what what is? What do you feel like as 0:57:02.000 --> 0:57:07.120 the state of America, the American the intelligence that are 0:57:08.320 --> 0:57:14.040 are the intelligence community is getting these days? Yeah, I appreciate. 0:57:13.600 --> 0:57:16.040 That question more than you know, and and uh, you know, 0:57:16.120 --> 0:57:18.680 would would love to have an extended conversation about it, 0:57:18.720 --> 0:57:21.280 because I think that there are a lot of different 0:57:21.360 --> 0:57:25.880 forces that are polluting the information environment and leading to 0:57:26.000 --> 0:57:29.360 very poor information hygiene, not just in you know, our 0:57:29.400 --> 0:57:33.920 federal government with policymakers, but with our kids and with 0:57:33.920 --> 0:57:37.720 with school aged kids and people in university and and 0:57:37.880 --> 0:57:41.600 everything else. I would just turn to Russia as an 0:57:41.640 --> 0:57:44.880 example of this. During COVID. You may recall some of 0:57:44.880 --> 0:57:48.280 these images of Vladimir Putin setting at the end of 0:57:48.320 --> 0:57:50.760 a you know, a thirty foot table and an advisor 0:57:50.920 --> 0:57:53.320 you know, at the other end, and I, you know, 0:57:53.320 --> 0:57:56.160 equipped at the time that he had entered the uh 0:57:56.360 --> 0:58:00.960 late stage Howard Hughes phase of his government, his governing. 0:58:01.240 --> 0:58:03.400 Have you noticed his nails are suddenly super long? 0:58:03.440 --> 0:58:04.280 Oh no, no, right yet? 0:58:04.360 --> 0:58:06.440 Right, yeah, Well, when he grows a beard, we'll know 0:58:06.480 --> 0:58:08.800 that the transformation lenen beard. 0:58:08.880 --> 0:58:15.120 Yeah, yeah, but it is it is an isolated autocrat 0:58:15.480 --> 0:58:18.000 who behaves the way that he did during COVID, who 0:58:18.080 --> 0:58:22.440 also then makes the decision to invade Ukraine. And when 0:58:22.480 --> 0:58:25.000 you listen to Vladimir Putins speak about, you know, his 0:58:25.080 --> 0:58:27.720 reasons for invading Ukraine. Yes, he has this sort of 0:58:28.440 --> 0:58:32.720 imperialistic worldview about Russia and you know, glory of Russia 0:58:32.760 --> 0:58:33.280 and all these. 0:58:33.120 --> 0:58:33.800 Sorts of things. 0:58:33.800 --> 0:58:37.080 But he also routinely just says things that are untrue, 0:58:37.760 --> 0:58:40.560 and you don't know if that's propaganda. I believe at 0:58:40.560 --> 0:58:44.120 this point the Vladimir Putin's information environment has become massively 0:58:44.120 --> 0:58:52.600 polluted because everybody in the Siliviki and the intelligence community 0:58:52.640 --> 0:58:54.800 in Russia has figured out that like, this is what 0:58:54.880 --> 0:58:56.960 this man believes, this is what this man wants to hear, 0:58:57.040 --> 0:59:00.160 and that's what they tell him, and he's manipulated in 0:59:00.160 --> 0:59:04.400 those ways. So there are very real examples of the 0:59:04.440 --> 0:59:08.520 consequences of that type of government that we see with 0:59:08.680 --> 0:59:11.280 Russia and the atrocities that are being committed in Ukraine. 0:59:11.880 --> 0:59:15.320 So let's go from Russia to the US intelligence community, 0:59:15.320 --> 0:59:19.280 and then I'll just finish my response with kids. My 0:59:19.360 --> 0:59:21.440 security clearance was revoked, as we talked about it at 0:59:21.440 --> 0:59:23.800 the top of the show, and it was revoked because 0:59:23.800 --> 0:59:25.920 I said something mean about Donald Trump six years ago, 0:59:25.960 --> 0:59:27.640 and because they found out I was going to exercise 0:59:27.680 --> 0:59:31.280 political speech by potentially, you know, by considering a run 0:59:31.280 --> 0:59:31.840 for the US. 0:59:31.720 --> 0:59:35.760 Senate, just astablishing something you said six years ago. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:59:35.920 --> 0:59:36.400 what they use. 0:59:36.640 --> 0:59:39.360 I mean, that is just like thought police stuff. Let's 0:59:39.360 --> 0:59:41.880 write out all the while. Yeah, it truly is. 0:59:42.040 --> 0:59:44.560 And you know, it was right wing Twitter that started 0:59:44.560 --> 0:59:46.680 that dug up some of this and started attacking me. 0:59:46.840 --> 0:59:50.240 And then I guess right wing Twitter runs our intelligence community. 0:59:50.240 --> 0:59:52.640 Now it's a very dangerous thing. Or a Loomer the 0:59:52.720 --> 0:59:56.880 CIA chief apparently, Yeah, exactly. And so what do I 0:59:56.920 --> 0:59:59.120 think the follow on effects of something like what happened 0:59:59.120 --> 1:00:00.960 to me? But it is since I mean James Comey 1:00:01.040 --> 1:00:04.840 being indicted and other people who were actively serving in 1:00:04.880 --> 1:00:09.680 the CIA being walked out by security because they ended 1:00:09.720 --> 1:00:12.680 up on some list that nobody knows how. So this 1:00:12.840 --> 1:00:16.920 is going to and perhaps already has a massive chilling 1:00:16.920 --> 1:00:18.520 effect throughout our federal government. 1:00:18.560 --> 1:00:20.000 And it's not just the intelligence community. 1:00:20.040 --> 1:00:21.800 I mean Donald Trump went to war with a weather 1:00:21.880 --> 1:00:25.240 forecast during his first administration. We might recall where he 1:00:25.600 --> 1:00:27.840 modified the course of a map rather than just saying, 1:00:27.960 --> 1:00:30.800 you know, I accidentally added an extra state in my comment. 1:00:31.160 --> 1:00:33.720 Right, So, up and down the civil service. 1:00:33.440 --> 1:00:35.400 You have people who know that if they speak truth 1:00:35.440 --> 1:00:38.120 to power like they're supposed to, they're. 1:00:37.920 --> 1:00:39.240 Just going to be out a job. 1:00:39.600 --> 1:00:42.560 And so that is dangerous for national security. It's dangerous 1:00:42.600 --> 1:00:47.000 for domestic security to not have expertise in the civil service. 1:00:47.160 --> 1:00:49.280 And what would you do if you're in that situation, 1:00:49.760 --> 1:00:53.440 You know you have the So literally a week before 1:00:54.200 --> 1:00:56.800 the head of Southern Command decided to resign rather than 1:00:56.840 --> 1:00:59.200 carry out these orders on these on these Venezuela on 1:00:59.240 --> 1:01:02.280 these boats out off the coast of Venezuela. I'd ask 1:01:02.360 --> 1:01:05.320 Jim Stavridi's former NATO superamaut Like commander, former head of 1:01:05.320 --> 1:01:07.600 Southern Command. I said, what happens if you get an 1:01:07.680 --> 1:01:08.760 order you're not on our pretent? 1:01:08.840 --> 1:01:09.480 Sure is legal? 1:01:09.840 --> 1:01:13.800 Right? We know we know that, you know if if 1:01:13.840 --> 1:01:15.560 you follow an illegal order, you're going to be held 1:01:15.560 --> 1:01:18.400 accountable to right. We have made that clear in our 1:01:18.560 --> 1:01:21.560 in our law. And he goes, well, you would, he goes, 1:01:21.600 --> 1:01:24.960 I'd probably resign and not go public about why I resigned. 1:01:24.960 --> 1:01:25.920 I'd simply resign. 1:01:26.280 --> 1:01:29.480 Let others And you know, there's there's this sort of 1:01:29.880 --> 1:01:33.280 there's always that that sort of a would you if 1:01:33.320 --> 1:01:35.560 you were in a similar situation, would you simply resign? 1:01:36.480 --> 1:01:39.040 Would you resign with a bullhorn? Or do you try 1:01:39.080 --> 1:01:41.200 to keep working within the system? Because it feels like 1:01:41.240 --> 1:01:43.320 there's no there's no perfect answer here. 1:01:44.400 --> 1:01:44.880 There is not. 1:01:45.160 --> 1:01:48.760 And I just want your listeners and American voters at 1:01:48.840 --> 1:01:52.360 large to understand that the admirals and the generals and 1:01:52.400 --> 1:01:55.200 the private first class is they're the privates first class. 1:01:55.240 --> 1:01:58.080 They're not coming to save you. If you think there 1:01:58.120 --> 1:02:00.720 is some massive resistance that's going to build up in 1:02:00.720 --> 1:02:03.560 this way, you are mistaken, and it's because these are 1:02:03.600 --> 1:02:08.280 gut wrenching decisions that have extreme amounts of personal consequence 1:02:08.360 --> 1:02:08.640 to you. 1:02:08.720 --> 1:02:11.280 The culture it tells you, Look, if you've got an issue, 1:02:11.320 --> 1:02:13.920 then you go ahead and resign, but you need to 1:02:13.960 --> 1:02:15.760 do it on your terms, right, Yeah. 1:02:15.520 --> 1:02:19.160 And civil servants have an obligation I think, to resign 1:02:19.360 --> 1:02:22.040 rather than you know, carry out those things. Whether they 1:02:22.040 --> 1:02:24.280 speak about it at public or not would depend on, like, well, 1:02:24.320 --> 1:02:26.080 this is a super classified thing. What can I say. 1:02:26.440 --> 1:02:30.240 You know, there's whistleblower things. We have ostensibly protections in 1:02:30.240 --> 1:02:32.600 this country for that, but you're still all. 1:02:32.520 --> 1:02:34.880 Those inspectors general, so it's not even clear who you 1:02:34.880 --> 1:02:37.440 would report violations of the Constitution to. 1:02:37.760 --> 1:02:38.480 Yeah, exactly. 1:02:38.520 --> 1:02:40.840 In the military, you don't have the luxury of always 1:02:40.880 --> 1:02:42.880 just being able to resign, you know, admirals and generals 1:02:42.880 --> 1:02:45.240 and those sorts of things at various stages of their 1:02:45.600 --> 1:02:49.520 you know, contractual commitments to the country, but they can 1:02:49.680 --> 1:02:51.600 you know, resign and make a show of it. 1:02:51.640 --> 1:02:53.640 Look, the fact that the head of Southern Campan resign 1:02:53.680 --> 1:02:55.120 should have been a much bigger. 1:02:54.880 --> 1:02:56.000 Deal with the American public. 1:02:56.320 --> 1:02:58.080 Yeah, I mean I don't think we I don't think 1:02:58.240 --> 1:02:59.640 that whatever's left of legacy. 1:02:59.680 --> 1:03:01.160 Media made a big enough deal about it. 1:03:01.600 --> 1:03:05.360 No, and the Defense Intelligence Agency who you know, the 1:03:05.680 --> 1:03:09.280 director there also gone because of you know, questioning the 1:03:09.280 --> 1:03:12.840 efficacy of the military strikes that we took on Iran. 1:03:13.240 --> 1:03:15.280 So there are a lot of a lot of things there, 1:03:15.320 --> 1:03:17.560 and there are a lot of problems. But I do 1:03:17.640 --> 1:03:20.000 think that you know, you do have obligations to not 1:03:20.040 --> 1:03:22.840 carry out lawful orders. And it's easy for me to 1:03:22.840 --> 1:03:24.760 say from the cheap seats over here at this stage 1:03:24.800 --> 1:03:28.040 in my life, I only, you know, hope that I 1:03:28.080 --> 1:03:30.120 would have had the courage of putting the same situation 1:03:30.200 --> 1:03:32.280 that i'm that I am asking other people to exhibit 1:03:32.280 --> 1:03:32.600 a day. 1:03:34.280 --> 1:03:36.200 Joe Willett, It's been a pleasure to get to know you. 1:03:37.160 --> 1:03:40.600 I sort of you come at this with a with 1:03:40.720 --> 1:03:43.560 a style that that is very appealing to me, I hope. 1:03:43.600 --> 1:03:46.600 But in that you seem like you think this stuff through, 1:03:47.120 --> 1:03:50.040 seems like you think before you speak. There's not many 1:03:50.080 --> 1:03:51.439 politicians that do that these days. 1:03:52.080 --> 1:03:55.120 I try, Chock, have been watching you for years, you know, 1:03:55.600 --> 1:03:57.600 I've only probably yelled at you through the television a 1:03:57.600 --> 1:04:01.520 few times, but you know, appreciate you having me on 1:04:01.640 --> 1:04:03.000 and for having a thoughtful conversation. 1:04:03.120 --> 1:04:06.040 I am I am a as I say. It's like, 1:04:06.320 --> 1:04:08.720 I'm as long as you're not yellow at me. 1:04:08.680 --> 1:04:10.400 The whole time. I didn't. 1:04:12.120 --> 1:04:15.800 Yeah, and my campaign job and my campaign will fire 1:04:15.800 --> 1:04:17.800 me if I don't remind people to go to Joelfurkentucky 1:04:17.840 --> 1:04:18.160 dot com. 1:04:18.240 --> 1:04:21.360 If you're at all interested in supporting this camp? 1:04:21.720 --> 1:04:24.720 Are you concerned that the big money people in DC 1:04:25.240 --> 1:04:27.600 won't invest in Kentucky because of what happened in twenty 1:04:27.640 --> 1:04:30.160 twenty with all that money. 1:04:29.360 --> 1:04:31.480 Yes, I'm very concerned about that. 1:04:32.400 --> 1:04:35.320 You know, we invested on you know, ninety four million 1:04:35.360 --> 1:04:39.200 dollars in the in the race here and got results 1:04:39.200 --> 1:04:42.400 worse than we had ever gotten before. And I think 1:04:42.400 --> 1:04:45.520 that is on people's mind spot. There's an important difference 1:04:45.560 --> 1:04:48.120 here now. Andy Basheer has shown this path to victory, 1:04:48.760 --> 1:04:50.640 and we just have to have the right candidate walk 1:04:50.680 --> 1:04:51.280 down that path. 1:04:52.560 --> 1:04:55.560 Joe Willette, we'll be watching your primary, that's for sure. 1:04:56.080 --> 1:04:59.160 I know, fairly early, right may right, yeah, leave me 1:04:59.280 --> 1:05:03.120 So that is six months are going to fly by, 1:05:03.680 --> 1:05:05.160 So be safe from the trail. 1:05:05.560 --> 1:05:07.160 Thank you so much. Check how you done it. 1:05:09.640 --> 1:05:11.800 This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you 1:05:11.840 --> 1:05:14.760 by wild Grain. Wild Grain is the first bake from 1:05:14.840 --> 1:05:19.960 Frozen subscription box for our teasonal breads, seasonal pastries, and 1:05:20.040 --> 1:05:24.160 fresh pastas, plus all items conveniently bake in twenty five 1:05:24.280 --> 1:05:27.600 minutes or less. 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