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Speaker 1: joining me now is a I guess you could argue

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Speaker 1: a new politician to the scene. His name's Joel Willett.

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Speaker 1: He's running for the US Senate in Kentucky. He got

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Speaker 1: on my radar. He's kind of out of nowhere where

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Speaker 1: Telsea Gabbert took away a whole bunch of people's national

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Speaker 1: security clearances, even folks who were had served in the

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Speaker 1: intelligence community were in the private sector but still had some,

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Speaker 1: you know, some clearances, because that is a normal thing

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Speaker 1: we've done in our government for decades. And there appeared

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Speaker 1: to be some sort of connection. The minute mister Willett

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Speaker 1: agreed to think about running for office, Suddenly it seemed

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Speaker 1: as if the government decided to give him another headline.

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Speaker 1: In some ways, I think they may have even given

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Speaker 1: him an assistance with getting more attention in some ways

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Speaker 1: for his candidacy, but he's also you know, we want

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Speaker 1: to highlight interesting first time candidates who are not coming

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Speaker 1: from sort of a typical place, hard left, hard right,

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Speaker 1: things like that, And Joe Willett got on my radar

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Speaker 1: and he agreed to sit down.

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Speaker 2: Mister Willett, nice to meet you. Yeah, thank you, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: So let's start with how you got in a service. Look,

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Speaker 1: we're taping just before Veterans Day. You're a veteran. I'm

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Speaker 1: a huge advocate that feels as if that the people

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Speaker 1: best equipped to what I call to I'm looking for

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Speaker 1: more pastors for patriotism in this country right that. I

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Speaker 1: think the military community and the intelligence community, where you

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Speaker 1: have to be Team America before your Team Red or

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Speaker 1: Team Blue, is probably as good of a place to

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Speaker 1: find these pastors for patriotism as you can find.

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Speaker 2: But tell me how you got what got you into service? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I love that term. Atn't heard it before, so I'm

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Speaker 2: probably gonna steal.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm using it over and over. I'm obviously a

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Speaker 1: little proud of it, so I'm going to use it

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Speaker 1: probably too much.

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Speaker 3: But you know, well, my grandmother took me to church

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Speaker 3: every weekend growing up and was heavily involved with my

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Speaker 3: church for a long time. So it resonates. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: thank you for the opportunity to tell my story. I

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Speaker 3: am Joel Willett running for the US and in Kentucky.

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Speaker 3: Your listeners can catch all the parts of the story

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Speaker 3: at Joelferkentucky dot com if I miss something here. But

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Speaker 3: I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky, and my path to

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Speaker 3: service was perhaps common in some ways and uncommon in others.

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Speaker 3: My dad was a Union iron worker. He was a

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Speaker 3: Golden Gloves boxer. My mom worked in hospitals taking care

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Speaker 3: of people. But we had some Kentucky struggles growing up.

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Speaker 3: The lights didn't always come on when I got home

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Speaker 3: from school. I learned, you know, early in my adolescence

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Speaker 3: that both of my parents were struggling with addictions to opioids,

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Speaker 3: and I would eventually lose my father to a fenteral

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Speaker 3: overdose in twenty nineteen. It wasn't just my family, It

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Speaker 3: was tens of thousands of Kentucky families over the past

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Speaker 3: couple of decades. But I was one of the lucky

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Speaker 3: ones because I had incredible grandparents on both sides of

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Speaker 3: my family. I had my grandmother's church, but I also

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Speaker 3: had the institutions of this country, public education, our military,

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Speaker 3: our civil service, some of these things that I believed

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Speaker 3: to be some of the greatest tools for achievement and

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Speaker 3: economic mobility in the world. And when the attacks of

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Speaker 3: nine to eleven happened, I was a senior in high

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Speaker 3: school and a few months after that, after months of

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Speaker 3: begging my mom to sign the paperwork, she relented and did,

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Speaker 3: and I joined the Army National Guard when I was

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Speaker 3: seventeen years old, and I served in the Military Police Corps.

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Speaker 3: I was able to graduate from the University of Louisville

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Speaker 3: and from the University of Kentucky, and that launched a

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Speaker 3: career once I left the Army in the intelligence community,

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Speaker 3: I spent some time with the FBI working on canterterrorism

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Speaker 3: and then was recruited into Essentral Intelligence Agency into the

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Speaker 3: Director to Operations, where I represented this country here at

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Speaker 3: home and abroad in the Balkans, Baltic, Southeast Asia, Western

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Speaker 3: European capitals.

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Speaker 2: I speak Russian. Do with that which you will, and

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: Finished my last year in government in the White House

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Speaker 3: Situation Room as a nonpartisan civil servant, there to provide

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Speaker 3: intelligence and crisis management support to the president who was

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Speaker 3: then President Obama and Vice President Biden. There to serve

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Speaker 3: the presidency, not the president, and the true spirit of

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Speaker 3: our civil service. I left government twenty fifteen in part

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Speaker 3: to be able to take care of a lot of

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Speaker 3: my family that remained in Kentucky, went into the private sector,

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Speaker 3: have since been running businesses that have put hundreds of

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Speaker 3: people to work every day. So, Chuck, I truly got

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Speaker 3: to live my American dream and have been, you know,

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Speaker 3: living that life as a private citizen for some time now,

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Speaker 3: and it's been increasingly hard to sit on the sidelines

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Speaker 3: and watch working families across this country, working families like

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Speaker 3: the one that I grew up in, eating steamrolled by

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Speaker 3: a political and economic system that I think continues to

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Speaker 3: treat them as acceptable losses. So, as you said, I

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Speaker 3: started exploring a run for the Senate. This administration found

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Speaker 3: out about it, and, as it is wont to do,

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Speaker 3: began trying to act revenge on people, no matter how

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Speaker 3: long they had served, no matter what they had served,

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Speaker 3: but because they had said mean things about Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: And we're thinking about standing up against some of what

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Speaker 3: we're saying today, and they revoked a security clearance and

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Speaker 3: you know, came after me the way they've come after

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Speaker 3: so many others.

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Speaker 1: What made your democrat? Why'd you pick a party? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: When did you pick a party?

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Speaker 1: Do you remember when you've said, you know what I think,

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Speaker 1: I am a Democrat? Or and this is why I'm

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Speaker 1: doing it? What give me your reasoning for?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a.

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Speaker 3: It was a long, maybe a short evolution out of

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Speaker 3: being a conservative, which is, you know, I would freely

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Speaker 3: admit to holding some conservative views as a as an

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Speaker 3: interested teenager or even in high school. But my journey

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Speaker 3: away from that came, perhaps shockingly to some people, through

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Speaker 3: military service. The military exposed me to people from all

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Speaker 3: walks of life, nationalities, sexual orientations, all of that, and

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Speaker 3: I began seeing, you know, what I have since come

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Speaker 3: to believe is, you know, this source of strength in

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Speaker 3: our military and in our country, which is the diversity

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Speaker 3: that we have. But it was also seeing the lies

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Speaker 3: of the Iraq War.

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Speaker 2: I you know, I.

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Speaker 3: Could see something very different than what the George W.

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Speaker 3: Bush administration was saying publicly, you know about this status

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Speaker 3: or the state of our military, our readiness to fight

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Speaker 3: such a war, and then you know, we we we

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Speaker 3: later come to learn that much of the rationale for

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Speaker 3: going to war in Iraq was a house of cards,

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Speaker 3: and I continue to see that, you know, some twenty

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Speaker 3: years later, as one of the most disastrous foreign policy

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Speaker 3: decisions we've made, certainly in my lifetime. So that began,

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Speaker 3: you know, a of reassessment for me away from you know,

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Speaker 3: what was the Republican Party or conservative viewpoints. And I

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Speaker 3: would say that the journey into being, you know, a

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Speaker 3: Democrat is something that happened much later.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure somebody will fact check me on this, but

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Speaker 3: if my memory serves me, the first time I registered

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Speaker 3: as a Democrat to vote was in twenty sixteen, and

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Speaker 3: it was in response to what I saw as the

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Speaker 3: clear and present.

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Speaker 2: Danger of Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: And I have been proudly a Democrat since that time

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Speaker 3: because that is the party that I see standing up

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Speaker 3: for a strong America, for an America that works for

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Speaker 3: everybody and not just the wealthiest.

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Speaker 1: You know, hearing your story talking about your personal story,

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Speaker 1: your parents struggles with opoioid's, the tragedy of your father,

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Speaker 1: the strength of your grandparents, I'm sure I'm not the

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Speaker 1: only person who they start to think. I wonder what

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Speaker 1: he thought of Hillbill the book Hillbilly Elegy by a

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Speaker 1: gentleman by the name of JD.

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Speaker 2: Vance.

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Speaker 1: Some people may recognize him as the current Vice president,

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Speaker 1: and some people may wonder if the same person wrote

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Speaker 1: that book. And I'll set that aside. I'm curious what

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Speaker 1: you made of that book and how much of what

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Speaker 1: Jdvan shared in that book resonated with you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I first became aware of that book in twenty nineteen

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Speaker 3: when I lost my father, and you know, an attempt

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Speaker 3: to process my own emotions around that, because Chuck, it was,

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Speaker 3: you know, one of the most debilitating things that had

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Speaker 3: ever happened to me, because no matter how long I

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Speaker 3: had expected that phone call, nothing really prepares you for it.

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Speaker 3: And I would say, my life for six years has

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Speaker 3: been a project and trying to understand how this country could,

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Speaker 3: you know, create my life, which I see as a

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Speaker 3: truly uniquely American life, coming from Valley Station, Kentucky, to

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Speaker 3: the halls of the West Wing in twelve years, to

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Speaker 3: leadership and business. If my life is uniquely American, so

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Speaker 3: too was my father's death because people do not die

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Speaker 3: from fentyl overdoses in a statistically significant way in other

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Speaker 3: parts of the world, yet it's the leading cause of death,

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Speaker 3: I believe in the United States for people ages eighteen

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Speaker 3: to forty four. So I became aware of he'llbiliology during

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Speaker 3: that time, and I would say, there are a lot

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Speaker 3: of similarities between my story and JD.

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Speaker 2: Vance's.

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Speaker 3: I my heart aches for, you know, the life that

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Speaker 3: he describes, you know, living growing up, and so much

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Speaker 3: of it resonates with me. And I understand that, you know,

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Speaker 3: he similarly felt a need to serve his country, and

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Speaker 3: you know, I will have to transition now to say

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Speaker 3: that there are major differences between my story and JD. Vance's,

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Speaker 3: and that being that I didn't turn into a giant

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Speaker 3: asshole at the end of it.

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Speaker 1: Boy, I didn't see that landing. I didn't see the

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Speaker 1: play landing that abruptly.

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Speaker 4: That was may have crashed it a little bit, but

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Speaker 4: I was just going to say I had one of

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Speaker 4: those landings yesterday actually, while flying back from Miami, where

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Speaker 4: it was the first I think a runway that he

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Speaker 4: wasn't used to using it.

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Speaker 1: It was like Boa, like we all hit the ground

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Speaker 1: road WHOA, that was an early morning flight, so it

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Speaker 1: woke me up. No. I mean, look, it is very

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Speaker 1: hard to square jd Vance, the author jd Vance, the

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Speaker 1: conservative pundit of twenty sixteen, right with the person that

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Speaker 1: ended up in the United States Senate, you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of making a what appears to be a political deal, right,

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Speaker 1: And look, that's yeah. I've always slightly hesitant on motive,

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Speaker 1: in assuming motive because none of us can crawl inside

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Speaker 1: anybody's head right on motive. But he just looks from

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Speaker 1: the outside. O. This stuff doesn't doesn't compute. But what

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Speaker 1: does compute, frankly, is the fact that these so many

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Speaker 1: of these stories exist and why politicians have had a

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Speaker 1: hard time figuring out how to use government to fix this.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about that. Like I would assume for you,

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Speaker 1: if you get elected that a priority is going to

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Speaker 1: be okay, how do we deal with it? I mean,

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Speaker 1: take the issue a fentyl. You got a president who's

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Speaker 1: manufacturing is using the fentyl crisis, which is real, and

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Speaker 1: ascribing it to the Venezuelans, which has nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with this, right, and getting us potentially to screw up

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Speaker 1: yet another Latin American country. With interventions that will only

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Speaker 1: cost us cause this country problems for decades to come,

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Speaker 1: and our distrust in that region of the country. And

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Speaker 1: it's like, how many times do we have to screw

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Speaker 1: up our relationships with Latin America with this? But what

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Speaker 1: is you know, you've you've it sounds like for the

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Speaker 1: last six years in particular, you've really wanted to understand

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Speaker 1: both the struggles people have with fentanyl, how it gets

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Speaker 1: into this country. What should we be doing differently to

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Speaker 1: stop fentanyl from getting into this country? And is it

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Speaker 1: Is it possible? You know, are we trying to like

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Speaker 1: stop the weather right Like is this impossible? And instead

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Speaker 1: we've got to go about this another way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we certainly have to go about it

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Speaker 3: in a different way than we've attacked this problem or

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Speaker 3: any other of the drug crises that we've had in

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Speaker 3: this country.

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Speaker 2: Over the years.

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Speaker 3: But you know, let me start with kind of the

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Speaker 3: supply side of this, where we you know, that's where

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump's conversation around it seems to end. And unfortunately

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Speaker 3: for many Americans, he's not the only president that has

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Speaker 3: stopped the conversation.

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Speaker 1: There.

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Speaker 2: We talk about, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, a drug war, and usually what we mean there

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Speaker 3: is attacking the supply and where the stuff is coming from.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we have to secure our borders.

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Speaker 3: Yes we have to go after and chase to the

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Speaker 3: ends of the earth the supply of this stuff, whether

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Speaker 3: we find it in a factory in Beijing or whether

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Speaker 3: we find it being pushed from boardrooms in some of

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Speaker 3: the largest companies and richest families.

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Speaker 2: In this country. And you know, we've had many, many.

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Speaker 3: Kentuckians lose a father or a brother because of unregulated

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Speaker 3: capitalism and doctors who had very perverse incentives to continue

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Speaker 3: pushing highly addictive opioids and poison uh into our community.

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Speaker 3: So I think we've we've got to pursue the supply

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Speaker 3: of this in many different directions.

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Speaker 2: We've made some progress on that and uh.

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Speaker 3: But but it's the demand side of it. Why are

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Speaker 3: people turning to these drugs? Why do people want to

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Speaker 3: use them? And I think it is that that we

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Speaker 3: need to that there is so much more that this

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Speaker 3: country could do. When I talk to you know, friends

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Speaker 3: in Europe about you know, what's going on with with

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Speaker 3: with drugs and addiction here, and they're like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 3: drug addicts, you know, they often not because they're terrible people,

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Speaker 3: but because they're literally out of their minds while using

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Speaker 3: do some destructive things, whether they steal or or a

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Speaker 3: public nuisance or wrecked cars and all these things. These

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Speaker 3: are stories that are just so vivid, vividly remembered in

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Speaker 3: my life and in my family's life.

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Speaker 2: In European friends are like, wait, you send those people

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Speaker 2: to jail.

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Speaker 3: Why don't you send them to the hospital, because it

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Speaker 3: sounds like that's probably what they need. In Kentucky, we've

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Speaker 3: had three years of declining overdose deaths from synthetic opioids.

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Speaker 3: We've got down to like fourteen hundred and ten.

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Speaker 2: This past year.

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Speaker 3: A lot of that progress was made because we invested

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Speaker 3: heavily in this state and medicaid expansion, and it was

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Speaker 3: access to medicaid that paid for treatment that helped people,

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Speaker 3: paid for some NARCAN community awareness, and also paid for

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Speaker 3: treatment for addicts. And I do think that is just

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Speaker 3: something we have to invest more in because you know,

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Speaker 3: we want people to have good lives and good opportunity

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Speaker 3: in this country. And you know, young men, especially account

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Speaker 3: for I think eighty percent of what we call deaths

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Speaker 3: of despair, which are deaths from overdoses of some form

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Speaker 3: or another, or from suicide. And I think this can

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Speaker 3: all be tied back to people see their prospects of deming,

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Speaker 3: who see that no matter how hard they work, they're

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Speaker 3: not going to be able to get ahead. And that's

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Speaker 3: something that has to change. And I think that once

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Speaker 3: we have a seen economic policy in this country for

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Speaker 3: the working class upon whose backs all of this prosperity

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Speaker 3: was built, only then we be able to truly address

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Speaker 3: these problems with addiction.

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Speaker 1: So when you think about the things that could have

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Speaker 1: helped your father, you know, what's an intervention that we're

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Speaker 1: doing now? I mean, you know, I lost my father

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Speaker 1: at sixteen. I'm sorry alcoholism and hepatitis C in the

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Speaker 1: late eighties when we didn't have a pill to take

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Speaker 1: to sol hepatitis CE.

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Speaker 2: You just died.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I've got it's always what of?

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Speaker 3: For me?

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Speaker 1: The what if is, oh, my goodness, if you just

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Speaker 1: lived ten years longer than there'd have been a cure

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Speaker 1: and he would have survived. When you think about the

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Speaker 1: things that we're doing now, if they had been available

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Speaker 1: even ten years ago, do you think your father there

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Speaker 1: would still be a lot? Well?

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Speaker 3: I know that as a civil servant, you know, living

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Speaker 3: on an okay salary, but in a very expensive city

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Speaker 3: in Washington, d C. It was very tough to get

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Speaker 3: access to resources. And so I always say, you know,

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Speaker 3: we confronted my father and checked him into you know,

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Speaker 3: dollar store rehab and Elizabethtown, Kentucky. You know it was

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Speaker 3: there were professionals there were doing the best they can,

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Speaker 3: but it wasn't the most well resourced facility, and a

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Speaker 3: lot of desperate people showed up there. But even that

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Speaker 3: bought us some valuable years with my dad. He was

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Speaker 3: able to see his granddaughter, you know, grow up in

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Speaker 3: his best moments, you know, in my in my recollection

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Speaker 3: were always when he was a heavily involved father, and

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Speaker 3: it was as my you know, my life and his

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Speaker 3: started going in very different directions when I was a teenager.

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Speaker 3: And this is because you know, there was a free

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Speaker 3: fall that happens in this country. You know, you grow up,

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Speaker 3: you have some roof over your head or some access

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Speaker 3: to basics, You get good public education, and you've got

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Speaker 3: some opportunities if you make just even marginally okay choices

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Speaker 3: in this country.

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Speaker 2: And my dad's path, you know, wound through a.

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Speaker 3: Union and I got him jobs that were relatively you know,

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Speaker 3: well paying when he could work. But you know, obviously

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Speaker 3: there were mornings in the union hall where he didn't

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Speaker 3: have work in the you know, earlier mid nineties. But

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Speaker 3: it was it was you know, surgeries and things like

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Speaker 3: that that started to get these pain pills into his system.

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Speaker 3: And then as his economic prospects dimmed, those that became

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Speaker 3: a way to medicate away some of what I'm sure

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Speaker 3: was existential pain for him. I was going to provide

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Speaker 3: for his family. I was going to provide for his kids,

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Speaker 3: for son and his daughter, my sister. So to answer

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Speaker 3: a question specifically, yeah, we are doing a lot more today.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot more awareness about it than there was before.

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Speaker 3: This is an uncomfortable thing to talk about, as I'm

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Speaker 3: sure it has been for you, you know, opening up.

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Speaker 1: And and it takes Look, you're never going to get

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Speaker 1: over it. I you know, my wife and I both

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Speaker 1: lost parents at different times of our life, and we

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Speaker 1: always say, you know, the thing, the thing that you

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Speaker 1: learn when you lose body like that, no matter when

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Speaker 1: you lose it, it doesn't matter, it's always painful in it.

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Speaker 1: You never get over it. You just sort of you

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Speaker 1: live with it. Right, right, that's what we do. You

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Speaker 1: just learn to live with it, and then you wonder

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Speaker 1: what can how do you learn from it? Right? How

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Speaker 1: do you how do you try to try to try

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Speaker 1: to move on? You know, you brought up Medicaid. I

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Speaker 1: mean you feel you're I take it your concerned that

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Speaker 1: these Medicaid cuts are just going to make it that

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Speaker 1: much harder. You know, do you feel like Kentucky needs

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Speaker 1: more facilities that do rehab or they have enough facilities,

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Speaker 1: they need more resources to staff those facilities.

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Speaker 3: I think it's both, and I'll just zoom out to

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Speaker 3: healthcare large. We need more doctors, we need more health

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Speaker 3: care facilities. Uh. This administration passed an unconscionable four trillion

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Speaker 3: dollar tax cut to put money back in the pockets

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Speaker 3: of the already ultra wealthy, like the ten billionaires that

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Speaker 3: serve in Donald Trump's cabinet. I find is saying those

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Speaker 3: billionaires are not like the average Kentucky voter. They do

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Speaker 3: not like the average Kentucky voter. And they paid for

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Speaker 3: all of this by taking money out of healthcare programs

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Speaker 3: that as our governor has been front and center in

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Speaker 3: the press sounding the alarm about this. These cuts put

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Speaker 3: thirty five rual hospital pills in this state under threat

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Speaker 3: of closure for people, you know.

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Speaker 2: To lose access to that healthcare.

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Speaker 3: Even people who maintain health insurance through their employers are

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Speaker 3: going to have to drive farther, wait longer. These communities

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Speaker 3: are going to lose you know, one of the largest

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Speaker 3: employers in their communities. So yeah, we have a shortage

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Speaker 3: of health care access in the state of Kentucky and

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Speaker 3: in many parts around the country. And I think Republicans

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Speaker 3: in this administration have shown just play in simply in

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Speaker 3: recent months that they do not care. So I do

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Speaker 3: think that we need to increase the supply of healthcare.

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Speaker 3: We need to invest in more of what people actually need,

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Speaker 3: and in Kentucky that does mean you know, more access

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Speaker 3: to addiction treatment and overdose prevention.

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Speaker 2: But again, I think the root causes of all this happened.

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Speaker 3: Way earlier in life, and I would again tie it

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Speaker 3: to increasing inequality and dimming prospects for working families.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like

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Speaker 1: there's a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury

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418
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Speaker 1: It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing,

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Speaker 1: just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

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Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

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Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars,

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Speaker 1: insurance company originally offered that original ofw for six hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars. So with more than one thousand lawyers

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting I know that the next and

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Speaker 1: perhaps you know the fear of AI displacement for sort

436
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Speaker 1: of middle class white collar workers is now you know,

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Speaker 1: there's like a whole new group of folks that are

438
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: learning what blue collar workers were worrying about during audit.

439
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 1: The rise of the initial rise of automation and robotics,

440
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: right plus the global the global trade system in the

441
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 1: nineties and in the early odds, and that created this displacement.

442
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 1: Now we've got AI. Displacement's going to hit another chunk

443
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 1: of workers. This attempt to bring manufacturing back, frankly doesn't

444
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: involve many individuals, right, It is more of a robotics

445
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 1: and automated situation. So, you know, how do we You know,

446
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 1: we can't go backwards. We're not going to force companies

447
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 1: to use humans if it's cheaper to do an automated thing, right,

448
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: That's just not how capitalism works. Well, what's what should

449
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: we you know, what what is what are the jobs

450
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: in the next twenty years that we ought to be

451
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,719
Speaker 1: trying to get our communities prepared for, get our public

452
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 1: education system geared towards you know, because I think about

453
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 1: think about the last thirty years, and we thought all

454
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 1: of our kids needed to learn to code, right, And

455
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 1: it turns out whatever coding you've learned, it.

456
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 2: Doesn't matter anymore. AI is going to do it.

457
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: And so I can tell you this as a parent,

458
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: You're petrified, am I am my kids?

459
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 2: You know, my kids going to have a future and

460
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 2: what does that look like?

461
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 1: It sounds like you have younger kids, both of mine

462
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: are in college. What do you think about is the

463
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: jobs of the future and how should government be thinking

464
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: about it?

465
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, for the record, my son is is sixteen and

466
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 3: this is obviously a very uh.

467
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 1: Yes, you're right as a moment conversation. Yes, I have

468
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: a freshman. I have a senior in college and a

469
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 1: freshman in college. Oh wow, yeah, good stuff.

470
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 3: So so look it We've always had I mean, America

471
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 3: is the innovation engine of the world.

472
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 2: We have always innovated.

473
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 3: And with every wave of you know innovation, from you know,

474
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 3: the industrial age to you know, the assembly line to

475
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,719
Speaker 3: even modern management theory and efficiency in factories and in business,

476
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 3: there's there's always been displacement and we've always found, you know,

477
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 3: ways to innovate even around that, and people have always found,

478
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 3: you know, new ways to to to labor and to work.

479
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 3: And I think there is some there are some reasons

480
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 3: to believe. And I'm someone who spent a lot of time,

481
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 3: you know, running a technology company over the past couple

482
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 3: of years I've had the chance to, you know, when

483
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 3: I lost my security clearance, some of the you know,

484
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 3: the most strident and well known right wing trolls on

485
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 3: Twitter told me that I should learn to code. I'm like, yeah, thanks,

486
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 3: I did that six years ago. You know already did that.

487
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 3: So I say that only to say that I've you know,

488
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 3: spent a lot of time playing around, experimenting with and

489
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: understanding AI tools and you know, their implications in the workplace.

490
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 3: I am less bullish about the immediate, you know, wide

491
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 3: scale impacts of this, because there are a lot of

492
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 3: implementation issues, or a lot of data quality issues, hallucination issues,

493
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 3: and all these sorts of things that I think even

494
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 3: companies who have made a decision to lay off and

495
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 3: displaced workers thinking they're going to be replaced with AI,

496
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 3: are going to see and relatively short order that that

497
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 3: it is not the panacea that they might think it is.

498
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 3: Even still, I do accept the premise that we are

499
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 3: going to have some massive changes in the economy, uh

500
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 3: and in the jobs that are available to people. And

501
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 3: I think that there are there are two things we

502
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 3: need to wrestle with. Is one like, okay, if a

503
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 3: business finds a more efficient way to do something, well, great,

504
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 3: they're going to have more profits. But now we're going

505
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: to have more people on snap benefits. Now we're going

506
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 3: to have more people, you know, needing Medicaid because they

507
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 3: don't have healthcare. Because you know, all this activity in

508
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 3: the economy has to come from somewhere. It has to come,

509
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 3: you know, from from consumers buying things. And what I'm

510
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 3: increasingly worried about is just that that the broad consumer

511
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 3: base in this economy is just going to be completely

512
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 3: left behind because the wealthy have enough at the top

513
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 3: to continue pumping money into these businesses and these experiments

514
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 3: and buying really expensive things.

515
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: Now we're seeing it right now, You're where the high

516
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: end consumer market is doing just fine. Yeah, but middle

517
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 1: and long people are pulling back. People are saving money,

518
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: and it's like this income and equality line is gap

519
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: is just getting bigger and bigger.

520
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so tax policy is I think the number

521
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 3: one thing that can address this. You don't have a

522
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 3: situation where, you know, the America's first billionaire he died

523
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 3: a billionaire, John Rockefeller in nineteen thirty seven. Bill Gates,

524
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 3: fifty years later became the fifteenth billionaire, and thirty eight

525
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 3: years since then, we now have seven hundred and fifty right,

526
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 3: and you know, all of the gains in the economy

527
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 3: since the early nineties or like fifty two percent of

528
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,239
Speaker 3: them have been captured by the top one percent. So

529
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 3: there has to be a reckoning with this growing inequality.

530
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: One, it's im moral.

531
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 3: But two, anywhere in the world in history where you

532
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 3: see fascism grow, it does so in the fertile fields

533
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 3: of wealth inequality, and people get desperate, they turn to

534
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 3: strong men who.

535
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: Say I alone can fix it right now. And that's

536
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: I mean.

537
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 1: I look at I talk about the fall of Turkey

538
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: in Venezuela all the time to former democracies.

539
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 2: I guess you could take Turkey.

540
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: Is slightly higher on the democracy rating scale than Venezuela is.

541
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: Buttheles right Air Dowan and Hugo Javez before Maduro, but

542
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: Ugoshaves who sort of started this revolution. Both of them

543
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: used frustration and poor communities to go after the so

544
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: called elites right in Istanbul or Caracas. I mean, look,

545
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,239
Speaker 1: I assume this is your experience overseas, that this it is.

546
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: There is a pattern here right where when they when

547
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: there's a belief when the gap between rich and poor

548
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: gets so big, you can weaponize the poor against the

549
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: elites and the pitchforks will come. But democracy leaves.

550
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's replaced with corruption and crony capitalism, every hypocrisy.

551
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 2: Of some sort.

552
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So we we do have to reckon

553
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 3: with our tax policy that that I think has concentrated

554
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 3: wealth at the top.

555
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 2: That you know is certainly what does.

556
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: That look like? Because I've heard this before and in frankly,

557
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: you know, we you know, this is what we did

558
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: one hundred years ago when we have all these robber barons.

559
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: We passed the Amendment on the income tax. That was

560
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: not about taxing Americans. That was about tax making sure

561
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: the rich paid something back to this country that they

562
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: were taking from it. And that's when property taxes became mainstream.

563
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: Was back then.

564
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: So what is what is today's answer? Because I agree

565
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: that tax policy is probably the that's what a small

566
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: d democracy should do in that sort of capitalism with guardrails.

567
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: What what what large areas are you thinking when it

568
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: comes to comes to tax policy and trying to close

569
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: the income inequality gap without it coming across as redistribution, right,

570
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: there's that fine line there, right.

571
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 2: Sure.

572
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 3: Well, one easy answer is something that that Ronald Reagan

573
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 3: actually did and then in the late part of his

574
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 3: second term, which is ensure that capital gains, you know,

575
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 3: gains from investment were taxed same rate as your labor.

576
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 3: I see no reason why people working forty eight sixty

577
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 3: hours a week and are subject to payroll taxes. And

578
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 3: you know, even if they don't make enough money to

579
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 3: actually be subject to income taxes, they're paying a lot

580
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 3: into to FIKA and into payroll taxes. And even in

581
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 3: the you know, Reagan years, they found a way to say, hey, no,

582
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 3: we're going to make sure that Okay, if you're if

583
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 3: you're just putting money, you're making money off of money,

584
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 3: well that's going to be taxed in the same way

585
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 3: that making money off of you know, your labor or

586
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 3: breaking your knees, you know, welding iron together and setting iron.

587
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 3: Is that we're going to tax the same And that

588
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 3: actually happened in this country for two years until George H. W.

589
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 2: Bush undid that policy. And I don't remember if it

590
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 2: was eighty eight or ninety, but one of those years

591
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 2: check up on me.

592
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 3: I think that that is a fairly easy place to start.

593
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 3: And then the second thing, you know that we just

594
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 3: have to deal with, are you know, the strategies that

595
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 3: the ultra wealthy use to live off of their unrealized gains.

596
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 3: You know, people will say, if I, if I have

597
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 3: stock and it appreciates in value, but I haven't sold

598
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 3: the stock, I didn't actually make any money. That's true,

599
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 3: except that you also collateralized that stock and borrowed a

600
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 3: lot of money from banks to be able to live

601
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 3: off of. You know, you you accessed some value from

602
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 3: that appreciation and that gain. And so I think even

603
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: a simple policy like removing this by borrowde wealth preservations

604
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 3: strategy that wealthy people use could also go some way

605
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 3: and uh in curing or or making this a more

606
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 3: equitable system.

607
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: Basically, if you, if you UH obtain cash.

608
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 3: Flow from those unrealized gains in any way, at that

609
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: point it would be subject to tax.

610
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: So these are kind of simple things.

611
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of other complicated things that

612
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 3: I'm sure academics and tax policy experts have a spectrum

613
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 3: disagreement about. But I think you know, to your last

614
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 3: point about redistribution, this is where democrats often get in

615
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 3: trouble because everybody sees that, oh, well, we're going to tax,

616
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 3: We're going to tax everybody more, uh, you know, hard

617
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 3: working people, and then we're just going to do handouts

618
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 3: to people who don't want to work.

619
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: And this is just silliness, right.

620
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 3: I believe that that's a myth for the most part,

621
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 3: that most people receiving, whether they're SNAP benefits or medicaid

622
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 3: or whatever.

623
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: Actually do want to work.

624
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 3: And I think forty million people on SNAP benefits, fifteen

625
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 3: million of them do work full time. They don't make

626
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 3: enough to actually be able to afford groceries. So I

627
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,479
Speaker 3: think we got to do away with some of those

628
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 3: myths about the working poor in this country.

629
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 2: But separately, rather than handing people.

630
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,959
Speaker 3: Money to go buy things, we as a country need

631
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 3: to invest some of those proceeds into building more.

632
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 2: We don't have enough high quality education in this country.

633
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 3: We have an energy grid that is increasingly falling behind

634
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 3: for the demands that are going to be placed on

635
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 3: it by an aiicentric economy. We don't have enough hospitals

636
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 3: and doctors. As I alluded to earlier, we need to

637
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 3: invest in all of these things heavily, and infrastructure in

638
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 3: this country.

639
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: No, And it does seem though that there is a

640
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,479
Speaker 1: collective agreement on that. And yet you've seen this. This

641
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: Congress doesn't function very well at the moment because we're

642
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: in this you know, we're in this like forever cold

643
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: war between red and blue.

644
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it.

645
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 3: Is very dysfunctional. And even when you can have consensus,

646
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 3: or even when you have you know, broad agreement on issues,

647
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 3: you know, progress remains elusive. And I believe that it

648
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 3: is just that this system has been captured by the

649
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 3: political and economic elites that are entrenched interests. We have campaigns,

650
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 3: you know, bought and paid for. Elon Musk invested forty

651
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 3: something million dollars in getting President Trump reelected, and all

652
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 3: of these parties you know, are looking out for their

653
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 3: own interests, and they are the ones you know, funding politics.

654
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 3: And we have tried to have grassroots campaigns over the

655
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 3: you know, the past decade, but these relentless text messages

656
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 3: and emails and candidates like myself have to send two

657
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 3: people who already probably don't make much.

658
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 2: No chip in five bucks to save democracy.

659
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 3: And then a lot of that just goes back to,

660
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 3: you know, paying for campaign consultants and all the absolute

661
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 3: fundraiser makes the money. Yeah, it's absolute nonsense. And I

662
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 3: think that that, you know, we have to start electing

663
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 3: people to the Senate who understand the struggles of the

664
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 3: working poor in this country. We talk about how much

665
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 3: representation matters, you know, especially as Democrats, and we mean

666
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 3: that in a variety of different ways, but one way

667
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 3: in which we don't explicitly talk about it is do

668
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 3: poor people see themselves.

669
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: In any of the people that are elected to represent them?

670
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 3: And I would say that they do not, because you know,

671
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 3: many people who seek office year after year, cycle after

672
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 3: cycle and win or lose. I just don't think they

673
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 3: have much in common with the people who who they

674
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 3: are trying to represent.

675
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: And I think that that representation matters a lot.

676
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: So, And I'm not like asking you to throw shade

677
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: at potential primary opponents I may already have. Yeah, sorry,

678
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: why did why does Andy Basheer succeed and why did

679
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 1: an Amy McGrath fail in twenty twenty?

680
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's there are a lot of you know,

681
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 3: contributing factors, and you know why you should ask Amy

682
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 3: what her assessment of that race is.

683
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 2: I'm sure that she had all.

684
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: The money in the world, all that money in the world.

685
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: This was not a she didn't This was not a

686
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: financial issue. So this became a you know, the you know,

687
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: an old marketing slogan was that the dog that doesn't

688
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,479
Speaker 1: matter how much money you throw behind the dog food,

689
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: if the dogs won't eat the dog food.

690
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's not gonna work. Why didn't it work? Yeah?

691
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 3: Again, she would probably be much more uh, you know,

692
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 3: qualified to share an assessment with you on that. I

693
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 3: will say Amy McGrath. McGrath has an incredible life story.

694
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 3: She's a patriot that you know, has served her country

695
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 3: and she she's been in this fight. I think my

696
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 3: assessment is that in a place like Kentucky, and it's

697
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 3: a state that has been you know, that has put

698
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 3: its faith in its trust in Donald Trump, you know,

699
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 3: three times three three elections in a row, and it

700
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 3: you know, voters here believed the promises that he made

701
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 3: and believed that he was going to be looking out

702
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 3: for them.

703
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 2: And when when.

704
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 3: Democrats don't actually offer an alternative vision, when they sometimes

705
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 3: speak in ways that sound just kind of republican but

706
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 3: just a little less republican, I don't think voters can

707
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 3: really tell the difference, and so if you got people

708
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 3: on the fence, they're going to just vote for the

709
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 3: Republican and Andy Bisheer, didn't you know do that? This

710
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 3: is a governor who led with his values in both

711
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 3: of his campaigns. He didn't shy away from talking about

712
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 3: hard things, but he explained his choices, his decisions and

713
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 3: reasons for different things, and decisions he would make and

714
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 3: policies he would advocate for. And even people who disagreed

715
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 3: with Andy Bushier said that they trusted him and they

716
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 3: thought that he would look out for them. And then

717
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 3: he has shown up. We've had fourteen natural disasters or

718
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 3: something declared in the state of Kentucky over the past

719
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 3: couple of years or during his administration. This isn't a

720
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 3: guy who hides in the governor's mansion. He's been out,

721
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,439
Speaker 3: He's been present with people, and I think that even

722
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 3: when they disagree with them are in marginal things, that

723
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 3: he has their back on the major thing.

724
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 2: So I think that that's probably the big difference.

725
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: What do you think is the best way to win

726
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: win over somebody who voted for Donald Trump in twenty

727
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: twenty four to vote for Joel Willett in twenty twenty six.

728
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would just ask those voters do they see

729
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 3: more of themselves in Joel Willett or in Donald Trump.

730
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 3: Donald Trump's net worth has increased three billion dollars according

731
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 3: to the most recent estimates since January twentieth. How's your

732
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 3: bottom line doing Kentucky? Wages are stagnant, costs are up,

733
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 3: you can't afford groceries. They're actively trying to take your

734
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 3: health care. This man went to the Supreme Court this

735
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 3: week to try to get permission to not give people

736
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 3: money to buying groceries in this administration, sure that Republicans

737
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 3: in the Senate couldn't negotiate a deal with Democrats so

738
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 3: that Americans wouldn't be faced with this unconscionable choice between

739
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 3: being able to afford groceries or seeing a doctor when

740
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 3: they get sick. And I would just ask voters to

741
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 3: keep asking themselves why that is?

742
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 2: Do you believe that this man has your back?

743
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 3: And I think there is ample evidence at this point

744
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 3: between his ballrooms, his own increase in his wealth, and

745
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 3: these other policies he does.

746
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 2: Not definitely has a gilded age feeling to it.

747
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: Doesn't it like, yeah, let them cake whatever, you want

748
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: to whatever cliche you want to pick. It feels it

749
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: like you're just like, yeah, the pictures are jarring. Having

750
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from personal experience.

751
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,959
Speaker 1: I was sixteen when my father passed away. We didn't

752
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: have any money. He didn't leave us in the best shape.

753
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: My mother, single mother, now widow. Myself sixteen try to

754
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: figure out how am I going to pay for college?

755
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: And lo and behold. My dad had one life insurance

756
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: policy that we found wasn't a lot, but it was

757
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: important at the time, and it's why I was able

758
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: to go to college. Little did he know how important

759
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: that would be in that moment. Well, guess what. That's

760
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 1: why I am here to tell you about Etho's life.

761
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: They can provide you with peace of mind knowing your

762
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: family is protected even if the worst comes to pass.

763
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: Ethos is an online platform that makes getting life insurance

764
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: fast and easy, all designed to protect your family's future

765
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Speaker 1: in minutes, not months. There's no complicated process, and it's

766
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: one hundred percent online. There's no medical exam require you

767
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: just answer a few health questions online. You can get

768
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Speaker 1: a quote in as little as ten minutes, and you

769
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: can get same day coverage without ever leaving your home.

770
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Speaker 1: You can get up to three million dollars in coverage,

771
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Speaker 1: and some policies start as low as two dollars a

772
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: day that would be billed monthly. As of March twenty

773
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: twenty five, Business Insider named Ethos the number one no

774
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: medical exam instant life insurance provider. So protect your family

775
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Speaker 1: with life insurance from Ethos. Get your free quoted ethos

776
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: dot com slash chuck. So again, that's Ethos dot com

777
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: slash chuck. Application times may vary, and the rates themselves

778
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: may vary as well, but trust me, life insurance is

779
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: something you should really think about it, especially if you've

780
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 1: got a growing family. Well, it leads me, and look,

781
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: this is by the time this airs, the shutdown is over,

782
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: it's behind it. So we're taping when they're in the

783
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: middle of it ending. And I'm one of those who

784
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: are empathetic to I get. I understand the rationale on

785
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: both sides of this argument inside.

786
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: The Democratic Party.

787
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: One that says, hey, they're squirming, why give up now?

788
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 2: The other that.

789
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: Says he's taking away snap benefits, he's putting the travel

790
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: system under duress. Somebody's got to be the adult in

791
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 1: the room here. And oh, by the way, if you're

792
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: trying if the whole point of this was to bring

793
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: more attention to healthcare, that's been a mission accomplished. And

794
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: then now the burden is on them to either deal

795
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: with this or watch out. In twenty twenty six, this

796
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: becomes a certainly a populist issue. So obviously you could

797
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 1: see I can argue one side of this. I understand

798
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: the other that, hey, the shutdown's gone politically really well

799
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 1: for the Democrats, and Trump has made all sorts of

800
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: mistakes like advocating to not pay snap benefits even when

801
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: a judge says to do it, and the Speaker of

802
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: the House is abdicated responsibility, right, Like, I can I

803
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: get the arguments and I couldn't I hear both of them.

804
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: Where do you fall on this argument? And I'm mindful

805
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: that you're in a Democratic primary at the moment.

806
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I'm not someone who is going to ever

807
00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 3: play hide the ball with the people that I want

808
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 3: to vote for me and the people that I want

809
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 3: to represent. So in that spirit, I believe that the

810
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 3: deal that was just struck is a betrayal of working families,

811
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 3: in this country. And I'm absolutely disgusted by this choice,

812
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 3: with the with the eight Democrats who who broke pretty

813
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 3: angry about this, I am very fired up, Chuck. I

814
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,439
Speaker 3: went to bed mad and angry last night. I woke

815
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 3: up this morning the same exact way. And while yes,

816
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 3: there are you know arguments there, I you know, we're

817
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 3: fond of, you know, saying in sports and when we're

818
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 3: trying to encourage people to to you know, get in

819
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 3: there and fight and play a game, we said, well, hey,

820
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 3: you can't win if you don't play. But I want

821
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 3: to quote my favorite, probably one of my favorite TV

822
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 3: series of all times, The Wire, and I'm sure this

823
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 3: was a David Simon line, but one of the characters

824
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 3: told the police chief, you can't lose if you don't play,

825
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 3: and that is I think some of the energy Democrats

826
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 3: needed here. If the Republicans wanted the government and open,

827
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 3: they found ways to force through the you know, the.

828
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 2: Big bullshit bill back in July.

829
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 3: They did that right with without getting the support that

830
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 3: you know they wanted from Democrats. They could have funded

831
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 3: and reopened the government the same way. Not sure there

832
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 3: would have been some procedural issues and delays and things

833
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 3: like that. They could have gotten it done if they

834
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 3: wanted to. Democrats did not need to go support this.

835
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,760
Speaker 3: And yes, it is terrible to watch people potentially lose

836
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 3: their their SNAP or food stamp benefits. I was on

837
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 3: food stamps as a kid. I know what that's like.

838
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 3: You know, when my parents had to make decisions between

839
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 3: being able to afford groceries or putting gas in the

840
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 3: car to get to a job so they can make

841
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 3: money to buy more food. I get that personally, but

842
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 3: it is not Democrats that have made those choices. It

843
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 3: was not Democrats going to the Supreme Court to try

844
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 3: to get permission to not pay SNAP benefits. That was

845
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 3: Donald Trump. That was Republican enablers in Congress. Democrats had

846
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 3: a very radical idea throughout this shutdown. Maybe in the

847
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 3: most prosperous country on earth, with thirty trillion dollars in GDP,

848
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 3: we can have a country where people can afford groceries

849
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 3: and be able to see a doctor if you get sick.

850
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 3: That seemed like a pretty noble fight to me. And

851
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 3: I don't understand, you know, when we've had millions of

852
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 3: voters across this country, in Virginia and New Jersey, in

853
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 3: California and New York show up just this week, right,

854
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 3: you know, over the past seven days, rather to support

855
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 3: a party that it's a.

856
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 2: Fighting for them, to just immediately turn.

857
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: Around and say, why why do you assume the fight's over?

858
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a temporary opening. You know. I

859
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: could if you made me have to message it sort

860
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: of on your I would say something like, look, we're

861
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 1: not going to we're not going to make people have

862
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: to ration food because this administration is going to do it.

863
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: But we're going to keep fighting for healthcare and come January,

864
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 1: if they don't do this, we're shutting this place down again.

865
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 2: And what's wrong? What is wrong with that strategy?

866
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,919
Speaker 1: Because you do sort of try to strike I could

867
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:07,240
Speaker 1: argue that it strikes the balance between you know, helping

868
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 1: in the immediate term and again I think, look, we're

869
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: playing with fire with what's going on with their traffic

870
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: control and not paying these folks and and all of

871
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: this stuff.

872
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: And I take it we had a we had a

873
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: crash here and right, we don't know if.

874
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: That had an was that impacted by right and we

875
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: can't say for sure, but we know we've put these

876
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: people under duress meaning they've got to work with a

877
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: promise to be paid right, which I've never met the

878
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: landlord that said that, hey, I'm gonna post date this

879
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: check just you know, I just don't know when I

880
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: have to get to post date it. Do you not

881
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: accept the premise that there's time to fight keep fighting

882
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: for this in two months?

883
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 3: I think when you look at the eight Democrats who

884
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 3: voted for this, it sort of betrays the parties thinking

885
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 3: that they don't really buy this premise either. None of

886
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 3: those people are facing reelection next cycle. To my knowledge,

887
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 3: find me one person who wants to run on this

888
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 3: compromise right now next cycle.

889
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,720
Speaker 2: I don't think you find that Democrat any.

890
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: What's the running the compromise? I think the question is

891
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: whether you're running. You know, you get to keep running

892
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 1: on healthcare? I would argue you do, oh.

893
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 3: Sure, because but the problem is you've got tens of

894
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 3: millions of Americans who are absolutely now going to see

895
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 3: premium increases or they're going to go without health care.

896
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 2: That is now a fact that is going to happen.

897
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 3: And you know a lot of people are like, oh,

898
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 3: do you trust Republicans that they're actually going to give

899
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 3: you a vote on this or whatever. It's like, Okay,

900
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 3: I think you know, Thune has been very public that

901
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 3: there is going to be a vote and it's going

902
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 3: to happen on such and such date and all that.

903
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 3: So take them out the where there's going to be

904
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 3: a vote. Is that going to accomplish? Do you think

905
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 3: magically Republicans are going to extend these enhanced subsidies?

906
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 1: I think enough, because I think they're petrified of this.

907
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 1: I think they're absolutely petrified of the impact. Commiss I

908
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,240
Speaker 1: think they're looking her way out. Yeah, we'll see, right.

909
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 3: And so I don't have that level of faith right

910
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 3: now because they are beholden to Donald Trump. And this

911
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 3: is a man who who who found his affordability narrative

912
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 3: for a maximum of five hours one night before he

913
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 3: the next day said.

914
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:18,399
Speaker 2: Don't talk to me about affordability.

915
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 3: I mean they are going to do whatever he says,

916
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 3: and until he's out there saying the impersonation is.

917
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: Noted there, Joel, I see that.

918
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 2: It's incredible. Check you.

919
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: Got to keep that up.

920
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 2: What bory is it?

921
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 1: Just have or do you have others that you're pretty

922
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: good at?

923
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 3: Oh well, we'll save those for future besodes. My wife

924
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 3: hates my impersonations by the way. Oh, she's got to

925
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 3: be the biggest fat she can't do that to you.

926
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: I just want to discourage it. And I've got a

927
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: shared brown impersonation that I've always been really proud of.

928
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 2: Ground to be.

929
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 1: I just need, you know, with the men and the

930
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: working men and wavebow. You know, you got to you

931
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: gotta have the dignity of work. There rol.

932
00:47:58,400 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 2: That does very good and quick aside.

933
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 3: I was was able to uh see Carl Rove and

934
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 3: Paul Lagala do a fireside chat last last fall, and

935
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 3: both of them, I mean, Karl Rove has an uh,

936
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 3: you know, an incredible impersonation of Donald Trump and an

937
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 3: even better one of George W. Bush, the president that

938
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 3: he served so firstly, and Paul Lagala busted into a

939
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 3: Bill Clinton uh that would deceive anyone. And I just

940
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 3: thought that was very impressive that the presidents that they

941
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 3: had served, that they had just kind of embodied their

942
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 3: voice so realistically.

943
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 1: Well it makes you wonder did they embody their voice

944
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: or did the do the president's embody the voices of

945
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: their chief strategistic Yeah, you know who's pulling this strength now,

946
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 1: I'm kidding I'm kidding on that front. So I take

947
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,720
Speaker 1: it that if there's no deal on healthcare, you'd say,

948
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 1: you think that this that these that shut down the

949
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: government in January again.

950
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I don't see what choice.

951
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I say this as a civil servant,

952
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 3: and and and perhaps I should you know, lead with my.

953
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 2: You know, I understand I've lived through shutdowns. I had.

954
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 2: I was always a.

955
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 3: You know, a an essential employee doing government shutdowns and

956
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 3: had you know, pay at risk, and they got paid. Yeah,

957
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 3: it always came back. But even if there was like

958
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 3: a you know, a temporary you know, blip in it,

959
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 3: you you you're not getting paid that much anyways, right,

960
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 3: and you you continue to show up and it's it's

961
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 3: work that you care about. But ultimately, you know, you've

962
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 3: got to be able to afford things. And I don't

963
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 3: want to use public servants as a as a political

964
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 3: football in that way. But we cannot be the only

965
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 3: party that cares about that.

966
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 2: One.

967
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 3: One side of the spectrum right now is letting Donald

968
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 3: Trump just run rough shot over the entire federal government,

969
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 3: dismantling civil servants, civil service that we fought so hard

970
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 3: to build in an a political way, in this country,

971
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 3: and uh, you know, so I get Tim Kane when

972
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 3: when he's trying to support federal workers, but you know

973
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 3: the same is true from our corner, and so so

974
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 3: I do think this is uh, we have to keep fighting.

975
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 2: But like Democrats have to read the room the do

976
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 2: you think Schumer should resign as party leader?

977
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 3: I I think that there are very valid and open

978
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 3: questions about that.

979
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 1: I want.

980
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 2: I don't know Chuck Schumer. I've not met with Chuck Schumer.

981
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 3: You know, I get that, you know there is a

982
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 3: lot going on behind the scenes, and you know, for.

983
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 2: A party that is out of power, and so.

984
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 3: You know that's that's not something I'm prepared to say,

985
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 3: as we said here.

986
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: But it is an open question. In my mind.

987
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 1: Doesn't sound like somebody, if you won, you would support

988
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: keeping Chuck Schumer as a leader.

989
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,720
Speaker 3: If you had a vote, it would be a difficult

990
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:49,240
Speaker 3: vote for me to take today, I will say that before.

991
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 1: I let you go. I'm just curious. You know. I

992
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: just interviewed Governor Basheer earlier this weekend. It's on a

993
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: new sphere, which is another sort of independent media outlet,

994
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: and he said something interesting. I said, you know, I said,

995
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 1: he was talking about tariffs, and this is a case

996
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: where Andy Basheer, Mitch McConnell, and Ran Paul are all

997
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: on the same page. And he basically said, if all

998
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: three of us are agreeing on something, maybe there's something there.

999
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: What do you make of Rand Paul? And I say

1000
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 1: this because if you win, that's a senator, you know,

1001
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: the States senators, you know, no matter even if you're

1002
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 1: from different parties, at times you need to work together.

1003
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 1: What do you make of him? And what do you

1004
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: make of his attempts at seeking a little bit of

1005
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: distance from from Trump World in a way that we

1006
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: haven't seen in the past.

1007
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 3: Ran Paul is an idiosyncratic senator to say the least.

1008
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 3: You know, his views will sometimes overlap in very weird

1009
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 3: or align, you know, in very strange and unexpected ways.

1010
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,879
Speaker 1: It's a weird ven diagram, isn't it?

1011
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 2: It? Very much? Is I mean? But we have this

1012
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 2: in Kentucky with Thomas Massey as well.

1013
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 3: You've got liberals across the state celebrating Thomas Massey's willingness

1014
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 3: to stand up, you know, for the release of the

1015
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 3: Epstein files, which, by the way, this issue is not

1016
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:10,240
Speaker 3: going to go away either.

1017
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 2: Those finals I believe will see the light of day.

1018
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 2: They have to. Voters are demanding it. But you make a.

1019
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 3: Broader point just about you know how we have to

1020
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,280
Speaker 3: work together. No one senator can promise to get anything

1021
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 3: done on their own. You have to build relationships. You

1022
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 3: have to be able to work across the aisle. And

1023
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 3: I'm not somebody who presentds just to be some above

1024
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 3: it all centrist. I am not, and I, like I said,

1025
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 3: We'll always tell voters you know where I stand on things,

1026
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 3: and my mind is made up on something.

1027
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: I'm not going to hide from you what I believe

1028
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 2: about it.

1029
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 3: But that doesn't absolve me or any senator or any

1030
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 3: congressman of a responsibility to represent all the people in

1031
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 3: our states, because it is inevitable in a state like

1032
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 3: Kentucky if I win, you know, there are going to

1033
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 3: be lots of people here who did not vote for me,

1034
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 3: and they deserve a voice and they deserve.

1035
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 2: Representation as well.

1036
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 3: The problem that we have right now in this country

1037
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 3: is that you know, you can have seventy five million

1038
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:14,240
Speaker 3: people vote for Kamala Harris and marginally more millions vote

1039
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 3: for for Trump, and they pretend that the score was

1040
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 3: one hundred to nothing, I know, and then all the

1041
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 3: other people didn't exist.

1042
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 2: You don't you didn't win that sualy.

1043
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: Not what our founders intended. They assumed it was going

1044
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 1: to be a messy compromise constantly.

1045
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you know, we have to be able

1046
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 2: to do that.

1047
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 3: So you know, I would, I would work with you

1048
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 3: know which who would then be the senior senator from

1049
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 3: the state of Kentucky to take care of working families

1050
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 3: in this state. They deserve a voice, they deserve representation,

1051
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 3: and we need solutions minded politicians. And that's exactly what

1052
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 3: I would be.

1053
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 1: Outside of Kentucky. Who's the US Senator that so far

1054
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: you've been the most impressed with.

1055
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 3: You know, It's funny, somebody asked me, asked me that

1056
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 3: question a few weeks so, not who I was most

1057
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 3: impressed with.

1058
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:01,919
Speaker 2: I was able to say a few.

1059
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 3: But I'm I'm gonna I'm going to continue to give

1060
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 3: Chris Murphy props. I have appreciated, you know, he's been

1061
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 3: a very level headed senator. He speaks passionately about you know,

1062
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 3: a lot of issues, but you know, particularly he's someone

1063
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 3: you know, I talked about, you know, my dad dying

1064
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 3: a uniquely American death from fentanyl. Well there's another uniquely

1065
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 3: American death, and that's to get killed at your elementary school.

1066
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,399
Speaker 3: And you know, when you've got senators, you know, who

1067
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 3: are completely owned by the NRA, that that aren't you even

1068
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 3: looking out for response responsible gun owners anymore? You know.

1069
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 3: I've just been impressed with, you know, his leadership on

1070
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 3: that issue and other things, and somebody who I think

1071
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 3: is intelligent, whose heart's in the right place.

1072
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 2: And yeah, so I admired, admire that guy.

1073
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: And I take it that Governor Bursheer is your pick

1074
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 1: for president in twenty twenty eight because you got a

1075
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 1: you're going to be a home state guy. Is he?

1076
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 2: Is he running? Is running? I don't know. I don't

1077
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 2: think he's U I don't so.

1078
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, look at you doing a little bit of blocking

1079
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 1: and tackling that I don't.

1080
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 3: Look at twenty twenty six, right, Yeah, of course, and

1081
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:09,399
Speaker 3: that does have to be our folks.

1082
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 2: I will tell you this, I.

1083
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 3: Do not believe, and I know Gavin Newsom has been

1084
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 3: very public in saying this. I've been saying it privately

1085
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 3: for months that this administration intends to have free and

1086
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 3: fair elections in twenty twenty eight. And so if your

1087
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,919
Speaker 3: listeners care at all about our two hundred and fifty

1088
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 3: year experiment with democracy here or liberal democracy in America,

1089
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,320
Speaker 3: it is imperative that we turn out in massive numbers

1090
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty six. I believe it's one of our

1091
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 3: last chances to provide accountability for this administration and to

1092
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 3: ensure that Americans have a free and fair choice, whether

1093
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 3: that be for Andy Basheer or anyone else in twenty

1094
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 3: twenty eight.

1095
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 2: So I don't think the stakes could be any higher.

1096
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 3: And I will say Andy Basheer has been an incredible

1097
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 3: governor of this state, and he's shown a path to

1098
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 3: victory here for Democrats who want to lead with their

1099
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 3: values to respect him for that.

1100
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,479
Speaker 1: Let me get chatty here on this because you worked

1101
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: in the intelgen's community, and I've been working with some people,

1102
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 1: former members of the intelligence community on an exercise on

1103
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: trust and media.

1104
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 2: And it's not just about media and journalists. It's more

1105
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 2: about the information ecosystem and what happens if you have

1106
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 2: bad intelligence. Like I'm working with people who are nervous

1107
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 2: that the information you know, we already know. There's a

1108
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 2: lot of misinformation and disinformation out there, and that if

1109
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 2: we don't figure out clean ways to get information, then

1110
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 2: we're going to make terrible national security decisions. Like how

1111
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,880
Speaker 2: bad is the flow of intelligence these days? Do you

1112
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:39,839
Speaker 2: is it in considering sort of how much we've alienated

1113
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 2: some of our key allies, you know, in the in

1114
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 2: the world of the Five Eyes, all the English language

1115
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,719
Speaker 2: allies of ours that I get the impression that there's

1116
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 2: either concern that you know, we've got too many leaks

1117
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 2: in our system or all of our stuff. There's one

1118
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 2: country in particular that gets access to intelligence without telling

1119
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 2: them what what is? What do you feel like as

1120
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 2: the state of America, the American the intelligence that are

1121
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 2: are the intelligence community is getting these days? Yeah, I appreciate.

1122
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 3: That question more than you know, and and uh, you know,

1123
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 3: would would love to have an extended conversation about it,

1124
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 3: because I think that there are a lot of different

1125
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 3: forces that are polluting the information environment and leading to

1126
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 3: very poor information hygiene, not just in you know, our

1127
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 3: federal government with policymakers, but with our kids and with

1128
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 3: with school aged kids and people in university and and

1129
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 3: everything else. I would just turn to Russia as an

1130
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 3: example of this. During COVID. You may recall some of

1131
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 3: these images of Vladimir Putin setting at the end of

1132
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 3: a you know, a thirty foot table and an advisor

1133
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 3: you know, at the other end, and I, you know,

1134
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 3: equipped at the time that he had entered the uh

1135
00:57:56,360 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 3: late stage Howard Hughes phase of his government, his governing.

1136
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: Have you noticed his nails are suddenly super long?

1137
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, right yet?

1138
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, Well, when he grows a beard, we'll know

1139
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 4: that the transformation lenen beard.

1140
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but it is it is an isolated autocrat

1141
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 3: who behaves the way that he did during COVID, who

1142
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 3: also then makes the decision to invade Ukraine. And when

1143
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 3: you listen to Vladimir Putins speak about, you know, his

1144
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 3: reasons for invading Ukraine. Yes, he has this sort of

1145
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 3: imperialistic worldview about Russia and you know, glory of Russia

1146
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 3: and all these.

1147
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 2: Sorts of things.

1148
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 3: But he also routinely just says things that are untrue,

1149
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 3: and you don't know if that's propaganda. I believe at

1150
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 3: this point the Vladimir Putin's information environment has become massively

1151
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 3: polluted because everybody in the Siliviki and the intelligence community

1152
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 3: in Russia has figured out that like, this is what

1153
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 3: this man believes, this is what this man wants to hear,

1154
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 3: and that's what they tell him, and he's manipulated in

1155
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 3: those ways. So there are very real examples of the

1156
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 3: consequences of that type of government that we see with

1157
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 3: Russia and the atrocities that are being committed in Ukraine.

1158
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 3: So let's go from Russia to the US intelligence community,

1159
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 3: and then I'll just finish my response with kids. My

1160
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 3: security clearance was revoked, as we talked about it at

1161
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 3: the top of the show, and it was revoked because

1162
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 3: I said something mean about Donald Trump six years ago,

1163
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 3: and because they found out I was going to exercise

1164
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 3: political speech by potentially, you know, by considering a run

1165
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 3: for the US.

1166
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 2: Senate, just astablishing something you said six years ago. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

1167
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 2: what they use.

1168
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: I mean, that is just like thought police stuff. Let's

1169
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: write out all the while. Yeah, it truly is.

1170
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 3: And you know, it was right wing Twitter that started

1171
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 3: that dug up some of this and started attacking me.

1172
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 3: And then I guess right wing Twitter runs our intelligence community.

1173
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 3: Now it's a very dangerous thing. Or a Loomer the

1174
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 3: CIA chief apparently, Yeah, exactly. And so what do I

1175
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 3: think the follow on effects of something like what happened

1176
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 3: to me? But it is since I mean James Comey

1177
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 3: being indicted and other people who were actively serving in

1178
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 3: the CIA being walked out by security because they ended

1179
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 3: up on some list that nobody knows how. So this

1180
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 3: is going to and perhaps already has a massive chilling

1181
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 3: effect throughout our federal government.

1182
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 2: And it's not just the intelligence community.

1183
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 3: I mean Donald Trump went to war with a weather

1184
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 3: forecast during his first administration. We might recall where he

1185
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 3: modified the course of a map rather than just saying,

1186
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 3: you know, I accidentally added an extra state in my comment.

1187
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 2: Right, So, up and down the civil service.

1188
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 3: You have people who know that if they speak truth

1189
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 3: to power like they're supposed to, they're.

1190
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 2: Just going to be out a job.

1191
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 3: And so that is dangerous for national security. It's dangerous

1192
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 3: for domestic security to not have expertise in the civil service.

1193
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: And what would you do if you're in that situation,

1194
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: You know you have the So literally a week before

1195
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: the head of Southern Command decided to resign rather than

1196
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: carry out these orders on these on these Venezuela on

1197
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: these boats out off the coast of Venezuela. I'd ask

1198
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: Jim Stavridi's former NATO superamaut Like commander, former head of

1199
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 1: Southern Command. I said, what happens if you get an

1200
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: order you're not on our pretent?

1201
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 2: Sure is legal?

1202
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 1: Right? We know we know that, you know if if

1203
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 1: you follow an illegal order, you're going to be held

1204
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: accountable to right. We have made that clear in our

1205
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: in our law. And he goes, well, you would, he goes,

1206
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 1: I'd probably resign and not go public about why I resigned.

1207
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 2: I'd simply resign.

1208
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 1: Let others And you know, there's there's this sort of

1209
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 1: there's always that that sort of a would you if

1210
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 1: you were in a similar situation, would you simply resign?

1211
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 1: Would you resign with a bullhorn? Or do you try

1212
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: to keep working within the system? Because it feels like

1213
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 1: there's no there's no perfect answer here.

1214
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 2: There is not.

1215
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 3: And I just want your listeners and American voters at

1216
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 3: large to understand that the admirals and the generals and

1217
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 3: the private first class is they're the privates first class.

1218
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 3: They're not coming to save you. If you think there

1219
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 3: is some massive resistance that's going to build up in

1220
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 3: this way, you are mistaken, and it's because these are

1221
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 3: gut wrenching decisions that have extreme amounts of personal consequence

1222
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 3: to you.

1223
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: The culture it tells you, Look, if you've got an issue,

1224
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 1: then you go ahead and resign, but you need to

1225
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 1: do it on your terms, right, Yeah.

1226
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 3: And civil servants have an obligation I think, to resign

1227
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 3: rather than you know, carry out those things. Whether they

1228
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 3: speak about it at public or not would depend on, like, well,

1229
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 3: this is a super classified thing. What can I say.

1230
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 3: You know, there's whistleblower things. We have ostensibly protections in

1231
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 3: this country for that, but you're still all.

1232
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: Those inspectors general, so it's not even clear who you

1233
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 1: would report violations of the Constitution to.

1234
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

1235
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 3: In the military, you don't have the luxury of always

1236
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 3: just being able to resign, you know, admirals and generals

1237
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 3: and those sorts of things at various stages of their

1238
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 3: you know, contractual commitments to the country, but they can

1239
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 3: you know, resign and make a show of it.

1240
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: Look, the fact that the head of Southern Campan resign

1241
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 1: should have been a much bigger.

1242
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 2: Deal with the American public.

1243
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I don't think we I don't think

1244
01:02:58,240 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: that whatever's left of legacy.

1245
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 2: Media made a big enough deal about it.

1246
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 3: No, and the Defense Intelligence Agency who you know, the

1247
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 3: director there also gone because of you know, questioning the

1248
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 3: efficacy of the military strikes that we took on Iran.

1249
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 3: So there are a lot of a lot of things there,

1250
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 3: and there are a lot of problems. But I do

1251
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 3: think that you know, you do have obligations to not

1252
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 3: carry out lawful orders. And it's easy for me to

1253
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 3: say from the cheap seats over here at this stage

1254
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 3: in my life, I only, you know, hope that I

1255
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 3: would have had the courage of putting the same situation

1256
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 3: that i'm that I am asking other people to exhibit

1257
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 3: a day.

1258
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 1: Joe Willett, It's been a pleasure to get to know you.

1259
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 1: I sort of you come at this with a with

1260
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 1: a style that that is very appealing to me, I hope.

1261
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 1: But in that you seem like you think this stuff through,

1262
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: seems like you think before you speak. There's not many

1263
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:51,439
Speaker 1: politicians that do that these days.

1264
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 3: I try, Chock, have been watching you for years, you know,

1265
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 3: I've only probably yelled at you through the television a

1266
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 3: few times, but you know, appreciate you having me on

1267
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:03,000
Speaker 3: and for having a thoughtful conversation.

1268
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 1: I am I am a as I say. It's like,

1269
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 1: I'm as long as you're not yellow at me.

1270
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 2: The whole time. I didn't.

1271
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and my campaign job and my campaign will fire

1272
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 3: me if I don't remind people to go to Joelfurkentucky

1273
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 3: dot com.

1274
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 2: If you're at all interested in supporting this camp?

1275
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 1: Are you concerned that the big money people in DC

1276
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: won't invest in Kentucky because of what happened in twenty

1277
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 1: twenty with all that money.

1278
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm very concerned about that.

1279
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 3: You know, we invested on you know, ninety four million

1280
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 3: dollars in the in the race here and got results

1281
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 3: worse than we had ever gotten before. And I think

1282
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 3: that is on people's mind spot. There's an important difference

1283
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 3: here now. Andy Basheer has shown this path to victory,

1284
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 3: and we just have to have the right candidate walk

1285
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 3: down that path.

1286
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 1: Joe Willette, we'll be watching your primary, that's for sure.

1287
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 1: I know, fairly early, right may right, yeah, leave me

1288
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: So that is six months are going to fly by,

1289
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 1: So be safe from the trail.

1290
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Check how you done it.

1291
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:11,800
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1292
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:14,760
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1303
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:54,960
Speaker 1: they have a gluten free sour dough bread. It is.

1304
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 1: We got two loads of it and we've done one

1305
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 1: loaf already. It's a cranberry and almond sourdough bread. It's

1306
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 1: like the best raisin bread you've ever had, except it's

1307
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 1: not raisin. It's great. You're gonna love this. You know,

1308
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 1: it's hit or miss if you mess around in the

1309
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:13,360
Speaker 1: gluten free bread world. This is a hit. Seriously. I

1310
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 1: was impressed, So look for a limited time. Wildgrain is

1311
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:19,440
Speaker 1: offering our listeners thirty dollars off your first box plus

1312
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 1: free croissants in every box when you go to wildgrain

1313
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 1: dot com slash podcast. To start your subscription, follow these instructions.

1314
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 1: Free croissants in every box, thirty dollars off your first

1315
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 1: box when you go to wildgrain dot com slash toodcast

1316
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 1: that's wildgrain dot com slash podcast, or simply use the

1317
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 1: promo code toodcast at check out. Always use the code

1318
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 1: get the discount. I'm telling you it's excellent, excellent bread