Speaker 1: So, is there anything you've been reading lately that you
Speaker 1: found interesting that I can say that you're wrong about.
Speaker 2: This goes back to late April twenty twenty two and
Speaker 2: Marjorie Taylor Green right, she claimed that the Catholic Church
Speaker 2: is controlled by satan And then she went back later
Speaker 2: and clarified that she believes the Catholic Church is controlled
Speaker 2: by Satanic Catholic bishops. The issue she had was that
Speaker 2: they were providing aid and assistance to people who didn't
Speaker 2: have money or housing, like, you know, the things that
Speaker 2: Jesus preached on dis Sermon of the Mount, you know,
Speaker 2: like helping people who are who are poor and disenfranchised.
Speaker 2: And she didn't like that particular group because she felt
Speaker 2: that some of them were undocumented. But my question though,
Speaker 2: and what sticks in my craw and John, let me
Speaker 2: ask you, is she said the Catholic Church is controlled
Speaker 2: by Satanists, right, Okay, where's the proof? And then let's
Speaker 2: run with that. So, like you're a young novitate and
Speaker 2: you want to join the church, and like you're pulled
Speaker 2: in by the Satanists and then you become a priest
Speaker 2: and you worked your way up, and I mean if
Speaker 2: Satani it's controlled the church, John, how would they do
Speaker 2: it right?
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, there's an assumption, I think,
Speaker 1: based on your question, that there are Satanists like well,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I've never met one, but I did grow up Catholic.
Speaker 2: I was an altar boy. You know. I spent my
Speaker 2: entire young life around priests, and I never saw anything
Speaker 2: with the child molestation stuff. Personally, I never saw any
Speaker 2: of that. I mean the priests I saw where genuinely
Speaker 2: most of them were really nice if you were stuck up,
Speaker 2: but none of them were Satanists. And most of these guys,
Speaker 2: or if they were really well. But I want to
Speaker 2: go back to Marjorie Taylor Green and say, well, a,
Speaker 2: how do you know this? What's your proof? What bothers
Speaker 2: me is people make this claim the church is run
Speaker 2: by Satanists. If that's true, If what she's saying, she's
Speaker 2: a member of Congress. So I want to know where's
Speaker 2: the follow on, betw We call her office and ask
Speaker 2: her to prove this. You know, are they still Satanists?
Speaker 2: What's their agenda? I mean, she basically makes this claim
Speaker 2: and then she just walks away from it. And I
Speaker 2: don't think she should. I think she should either say
Speaker 2: I was wrong, or here's my proof, or here's my research.
Speaker 2: I think you should know better.
Speaker 1: What is she gonna do, How's she going to follow up?
Speaker 1: Where's her evidence? It doesn't work that way. You know
Speaker 1: that now, I know. I'm just throw shit out and
Speaker 1: see what sticks and just keep going.
Speaker 2: That's all it is.
Speaker 1: And you know that.
Speaker 2: Why does she get a pass?
Speaker 1: I think that's what's expected of her, and I think
Speaker 1: that's what gets her elected. And she is probably one
Speaker 1: of the best fundraisers in the Republican Party because the
Speaker 1: cruelty and the fact that it gets people riled up,
Speaker 1: and it gets their political enemies riled up. To the
Speaker 1: hardcore right wing Republicans, that is a good thing. And
Speaker 1: so she's getting tons of money. She's helping out a
Speaker 1: lot of the other right wing maga Republicans get money
Speaker 1: because because she knows that this kind of stuff gets
Speaker 1: people like you and me and the rest of us
Speaker 1: worked up. Has become not about governing anymore. You are
Speaker 1: judged on how often you can get clicks on social media,
Speaker 1: how often you can get on Fox News or one
Speaker 1: of these other newsplaces, and how much money you can
Speaker 1: raise it enter. It's sort of angertainment if you will.
Speaker 2: And does everybody accept this or just some people because
Speaker 2: I don't. In our past world, facts mattered, right, Facts
Speaker 2: will get you killed in Afghanistan. If you got a
Speaker 2: report that said Taliban is going to attack tomorrow night.
Speaker 2: If you said, like, well I don't believe that or
Speaker 2: that's a conspiracy, and they do, you're like you're dead.
Speaker 1: Yes, let's hope that there's a professional class that still
Speaker 1: follows facts. But that post truth world, that's something our
Speaker 1: former boss, General Hayden, who was the head of CIA
Speaker 1: in NSA and the d and I Director of National Intelligence,
Speaker 1: wrote a book called the Post Truth World, and it
Speaker 1: really goes against sort of the culture that we grew
Speaker 1: up in. Certainly, so what you bring up with Marger
Speaker 1: Charlie Green and how people are pushing call it what
Speaker 1: you will, just crap into the system, disinformation, misinformation, just
Speaker 1: trying to create chaos. Fascinating article I read, I think
Speaker 1: it was in the New York Times about this guy
Speaker 1: named John Mark Dugan. He was a former deputy sheriff
Speaker 1: in Florida, then got kicked out of there, went to Maine.
Speaker 1: Was some sort of police officer and eventually got kicked
Speaker 1: out of there, but he's been masquerading online as a
Speaker 1: Russian tech worker. He defected to Russia. He lives in
Speaker 1: Moscow since twenty sixteen, and he's been very, very prolific
Speaker 1: in writing misinformation and disinformation on behalf of the Russian state.
Speaker 1: He creates these fake websites that mimic and look just
Speaker 1: like US news websites, and he does it in the
Speaker 1: United States, Britain, and France, you know. And apparently he's
Speaker 1: just pumping these news articles and social media articles out
Speaker 1: with this kind of stuff mixed in, so it'll look
Speaker 1: like it's the San Francisco Chronicle and it'll have like
Speaker 1: regular stuff, and then in there will be some propaganda
Speaker 1: and disinformation themes. And apparently his stuff as being seen
Speaker 1: by tens of millions of people, and he's got all
Speaker 1: these sort of fake websites and a lot of the
Speaker 1: things that we've seen, for example, around the Ukraine War,
Speaker 1: saying that Zelenski is corrupt and he's smuggling drugs and
Speaker 1: the US is involved in bioweapons, and saying the CIA
Speaker 1: is working with Ukrainians to undermine Trump's campaign. All of
Speaker 1: these things are created by this American who fled to
Speaker 1: Russia in twenty sixteen, and he, even because he has
Speaker 1: such good English, he uses the phone to call into
Speaker 1: the United States, impersonating the FBI officer, and a number
Speaker 1: of other things to try to create havoc inside our system.
Speaker 2: So we've discussed two different kinds of conspiracies here, one
Speaker 2: which I think we all agree was thrown out for effect. Right,
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody really believes the Catholic churches run
Speaker 2: by Satanists. And then you're talking about real conspiracies. Where's
Speaker 2: the line between the two is as conspiracy theories for
Speaker 2: fun and entertainment and for shock value, and conspiracies that
Speaker 2: actually try to change people's mind.
Speaker 1: But the shock value raises money in our political system.
Speaker 1: But for bad actors overseas that see the United States's enemy,
Speaker 1: they understand that that same stuff that can hurt our polity,
Speaker 1: that can hurt our politics, that eventually people just see
Speaker 1: so much of this stuff they don't know what to believe.
Speaker 1: They understand the Russians, that is, the Chinese, Iranians and
Speaker 1: others that it weakens us. And the problem is we
Speaker 1: keep biting at it. Let's take a break, we'll be
Speaker 1: right back, and we're back. But you know it's not
Speaker 1: just here, not just Russian. Like I think you shared
Speaker 1: an article with me about the amazing amount of conspiracies
Speaker 1: around the death of the Iranian president and the Iranian
Speaker 1: foreign minister who died in a helicopter crash a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks ago. There's stories suggesting that the Israelis might
Speaker 1: have been involved, that there was space weapons that could
Speaker 1: have been down that the US purposely, you know, because
Speaker 1: of sanctions. You know, the thing fell apart when people
Speaker 1: don't understand how things work, or something big happens that
Speaker 1: they dis can't find an easy explanation for. Conspiracies follow
Speaker 1: right behind.
Speaker 2: There's this famous story you may know it better than
Speaker 2: I do, where Stalin got up to make a speech
Speaker 2: back in the thirties and he had just taken control.
Speaker 2: He was the strong man, now he had no rivals.
Speaker 2: He gave this speech which was full full of bullshit.
Speaker 2: Right everybody knew it was wrong. And when he was
Speaker 2: done in this big hallway with thousands of people, everybody
Speaker 2: stood up and applauded, and they applauded and they applauded,
Speaker 2: and everybody started looking everybody else and realized, shit, who's
Speaker 2: going to be the first one to sit down? Because
Speaker 2: all the KGB guys are watching. And it went on
Speaker 2: for eleven minutes, and it wasn't just a polite clap.
Speaker 2: This was like incredible applus to the maximum, mistent and cheers,
Speaker 2: and it was like, who's going to die of a
Speaker 2: heart attack first? And finally there was this really old
Speaker 2: guy and I understand he ran a paint factory and
Speaker 2: he finally like just sait it down because he physically
Speaker 2: couldn't go anymore. And as soon as everybody saw one
Speaker 2: guy sit down, they all immediately stopped and they all
Speaker 2: sat down, and then the KGB guys came over and
Speaker 2: they escorted the guy out, and it was like not
Speaker 2: seen again. Everybody got the message you keep applauding because
Speaker 2: that can happen to you. And with a lot of
Speaker 2: the conspiracy theories, you know, like stolen elections, you got
Speaker 2: to say it even if you don't believe it.
Speaker 1: But we see it now, don't you. I mean Donald Trump?
Speaker 1: You know it says gangster mentality and you know, making
Speaker 1: people complicit around you, and it seems like that he
Speaker 1: takes special pride in the people who were against him,
Speaker 1: the Marco Rubios of the world who read against him,
Speaker 1: S Cruce, Yeah, Ted Cruz said things that you know
Speaker 1: against him that have now come around, and they are
Speaker 1: so fawning that they've they've got under his thumb. And
Speaker 1: I think that's a strong men mentality. It's like I
Speaker 1: have broken that person so much so that they've thrown
Speaker 1: away all their credibility now that they can never get
Speaker 1: it back. And therefore I own them and I will
Speaker 1: do what I want them to do. If you're going
Speaker 1: to be part of the new administration, you have to say,
Speaker 1: I actually put your hand in there. I believe that
Speaker 1: the election was stolen, and I believe the sky is
Speaker 1: red or whatever have you.
Speaker 2: So I spent a lot of time in Zimbabwe with Mugabi,
Speaker 2: who was a leftist right, or at least he said
Speaker 2: he was, and they really did have a make Zimbabwi
Speaker 2: great again right. They would go back to the time
Speaker 2: where they won the war against Rhodesian got their independence,
Speaker 2: and he would continually go back to those days. And
Speaker 2: yet the statistics were clear that a independence from Rhodesia
Speaker 2: life expectancy for the average Zimbobbi and was sixty two.
Speaker 2: Life expectancy when Mugabi left office was thirty eight, and
Speaker 2: yet he kept saying, I'm going to bring back those
Speaker 2: great old days. The facts were clear. They had over
Speaker 2: a million percent inflation, and yet nobody in Zim, if
Speaker 2: you wanted a government job or you didn't want to disappear,
Speaker 2: you had to say no, no, things are better now
Speaker 2: that he's making Zimbabwe great again, even though we've almost
Speaker 2: halfed our life expectancy and our currency has disappeared. And
Speaker 2: yet such was a beautiful country too. It is I've
Speaker 2: been to Zimbabwe. It's fantastic, it is it's look, I
Speaker 2: love it. Great people. But what happened to them was
Speaker 2: a strong man said you must follow my You have
Speaker 2: to like basically lie for me. You have to do
Speaker 2: whatever I say, and you have to like believe what
Speaker 2: I say is true. And everybody knew it wasn't. And
Speaker 2: an entire country and an entire civil servants either they
Speaker 2: were fired or killed or the vast majority they just
Speaker 2: went along with it. And I really worry that this
Speaker 2: could happen in any country, and to including our own.
Speaker 2: And so you have to tell a lie, You have
Speaker 2: to sell a little piece of your soul if you're
Speaker 2: in the club, and yeah, I'm looking at you, Ted Cruz.
Speaker 2: He said, your wife is ugly. He said your father
Speaker 2: helped kill ca entity. And it turns out he was
Speaker 2: working with David Pecker to come up with these lies,
Speaker 2: working against it was a conspiracy to make Ted Cruz
Speaker 2: look bad, and it just came out. David Pecker has
Speaker 2: admitted under oath that he conspired with Trump and his
Speaker 2: people to come up with this fake story that Ted
Speaker 2: Cruz's father was a Ted Cruz.
Speaker 1: Right, but now Ted Cruise has come around.
Speaker 2: Ted Cruise has like sold his soul.
Speaker 1: Now listen, Frankly, if anybody was going to sell her soul,
Speaker 1: I think would we would have bet on Ted Cruiser.
Speaker 2: Well, that's true.
Speaker 1: How about Joey for example, Just we just saw this
Speaker 1: with Nicky Haley, right, So that's right. If you go
Speaker 1: back and you look at the things she said when
Speaker 1: she was running against him, they were quite sharp, quite clear,
Speaker 1: like you know this this person is unfit for office.
Speaker 1: They should never be in this position. But then of
Speaker 1: course when it comes to will you vote for him, yes,
Speaker 1: she says yes she will, And so that's part of
Speaker 1: the game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he pulled the there was the birther Or conspiracy
Speaker 2: that he did with Obama, he pulled on her as well.
Speaker 2: And when her husband was serving, his.
Speaker 1: Sort of denigrated her husband who worked in military.
Speaker 2: That's right, her husband was serving in the military abroad,
Speaker 2: and he was laughing and saying where's her husband, as
Speaker 2: if he wasn't supporting her. And I don't know, I'm
Speaker 2: going to ask where's Milana with his during his trial?
Speaker 1: All right, So I'll keep trying to look for interesting stories.
Speaker 1: We will try to find things that are a little
Speaker 1: more critical of the left wing politically. If we're going
Speaker 1: to talk politics, you know, if we can avoid politics,
Speaker 1: all the better. But in the meantime, please join us
Speaker 1: next time for a full episode of Mission Implausible.