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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph.

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Speaker 1: Last year, synthetic opioids like Fintonel surpassed heroin as the

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Speaker 1: leading cause of drug overdose dusts. More people are dying

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Speaker 1: from inscription peels, and they are from motor vehicle accidents,

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Speaker 1: and the number of overdose DUTs caused by synthetic opioids

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Speaker 1: has more than doubled from these were people. These are

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Speaker 1: real people, and they're dying out because nobody seems to

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Speaker 1: carry anymore. Altogether, the number of opioid overdose dusts and

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Speaker 1: surpassed the number of deaths caused by the AIDS epidemic

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Speaker 1: at its peak. In Fulton County, Leaders along with representatives

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Speaker 1: from a private law firm, are suing twelve manufacturers and

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Speaker 1: distributors of opioid based medication. They say the company's downplay

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Speaker 1: at the risks associated with the drug. We were all

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Speaker 1: stunned to see recent images and these were not doctored.

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Speaker 1: They were not photoshopped because, believe me, I investigated it

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Speaker 1: of a couple, nice car, like a suburban, Mom and

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Speaker 1: dad passed out at the wheel. At first, I thought

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Speaker 1: I was seeing an image of some kind of a

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Speaker 1: hit and run, or a crash or a single car incident.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't. There were children in the back seat. They

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Speaker 1: were looking at mommy and daddy passed out on opioid's heroine.

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Speaker 1: And that photo, that one image circulated around the world.

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Speaker 1: We are in the middle of an opioid crisis and

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Speaker 1: opioid epidemic. Other countries are looking at US saying, look,

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Speaker 1: America has an opioid epidemic. Look at the US. What

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Speaker 1: how did we get in this spot? And I remember

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Speaker 1: prosecuting cases and there would be one guy after the

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Speaker 1: next guy, after a woman, after a stock broker, after

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Speaker 1: a banker, or after a soccer mom coming into court

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Speaker 1: with heroin. I couldn't believe it. I'm Nancy Grace. This

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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with me. With

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Speaker 1: me now, Mark Tate, lawyer representing government suing drug companies.

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Speaker 1: That's what it's come to. Dr William Moroney, opioid treatment

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Speaker 1: expert Nanette Sosa, Crime Stories contributing reporter and Tim Ryan

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Speaker 1: a and ease quote dope man. Okay, I don't know

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Speaker 1: how I feel about that, dopeman and advisor to rehab

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Speaker 1: dot Com. Tim Ryan, I'm starting with you. You we're

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Speaker 1: an addict. How did you get clean? I unfortunately got clean,

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Speaker 1: being sentenced to seven years in the Illinois Department at Corrections.

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Speaker 1: As you were just talking, I was that middle class father.

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Speaker 1: I was a very successful businessman. I had an office

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Speaker 1: in the Wrigley Building in downtown Chicago on Michigan Avenue.

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Speaker 1: Like I made a very good living, but I also

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Speaker 1: struggled with heroin and had a five dollar a day habit.

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Speaker 1: I overdose, why driving? Hit two cars, put four people

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Speaker 1: in the hospital, one being a nine month old baby.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, wait, wait wait, Tim Ryan with me

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Speaker 1: a and E's dopeman advisor to rehab dot Com. And

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Speaker 1: I know right now I can't see Dr William Moroney,

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Speaker 1: my friend in colleague, but I know he is just

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Speaker 1: shaking his head. Tim Ryan, you did what? I overdose?

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Speaker 1: Why driving? I hit two cars. I put four people

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Speaker 1: in the hospital. I was clinically dead on the scene.

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Speaker 1: It took uh five doses of Narcan to bring me back. Um.

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Speaker 1: I ultimately started fighting my case. And and here's where

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Speaker 1: it gets deeper, because unless you live in the world

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Speaker 1: of addiction, you're gonna shake your head. Now, all my

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Speaker 1: family knows Dad's a heroin addict, and I had tried

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Speaker 1: some boxing in the early two thou sins in methodone.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't ready to get sober. In the midst of

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Speaker 1: fighting my case, I know I'm going to prison. And

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Speaker 1: about three months into fighting my case, I'm profusely dope sick.

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Speaker 1: And when you don't have opious, you're hot, you're cold.

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Speaker 1: It's like having the flu times a thousand. I'm taking

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Speaker 1: a hot bath and my seventeen year old son walks in.

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Speaker 1: He said, what's wrong, Pops? And I said, what do

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Speaker 1: you think, Nick, I'm dope sick. And he said, not anymore, Dad,

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Speaker 1: Today's you're lucky day. And he threw two bags of

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Speaker 1: heron on the counter. Now with Nick, I was not

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Speaker 1: a father, I was a friend. I was the father

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Speaker 1: that let my son and his buddy smoke a little weed,

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Speaker 1: drink a little beer. And when Nick did that, I

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Speaker 1: got out of the top and I did those two

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Speaker 1: bags and and instantly I felt better, and I want

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Speaker 1: my son's room, and I said, Nick, what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: He said, don't worry, Dad, I'm just selling a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I said, Nick, you need to shut this down immediately.

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Speaker 1: You know what this drug gets done to me. And

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Speaker 1: my son looked right at me and he said, well, Dad,

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Speaker 1: you're a successful drug addict. And I said, why would

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Speaker 1: you say that? While we've got a nice house, you

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Speaker 1: have an office and the Wrigley Building, you make a

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Speaker 1: good living. In my son's delusional mind, he thought I

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Speaker 1: was successful because I functioned. Three months later, my son

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Speaker 1: and I were doing heroin together. That's how we bonded.

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Speaker 1: Tim Wait a minute, wait wait wait, wait, wait, wait wait.

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Speaker 1: It's hurting me so bad. I mean, I can tell

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Speaker 1: you've told a story a hundred times spent. I'm hearing

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Speaker 1: it for the first time, and I can hardly take

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Speaker 1: it in because I'm thinking about, you know, every night

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Speaker 1: when I run back to the back and try to

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Speaker 1: take a quick bath. In fact, it's so funny, you know,

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Speaker 1: Dr Maroney. You know my children, they're so used to

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Speaker 1: me going so fast, they actually thought the name of

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Speaker 1: a shower was a quick shower. They didn't know you

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Speaker 1: could take a shower. They grew up here and go,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna take a quick shower. And they grew up

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Speaker 1: and they go, my mom and go take a quick shower.

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Speaker 1: They don't even know. I'm so used to going ninety

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Speaker 1: miles an hour. So when I'm back there, they always

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Speaker 1: are coming in and out and talking and showing me

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Speaker 1: something or whatever they're doing. I'm just imagining one of

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Speaker 1: my little babies thrown down two bags of heroin. I mean,

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Speaker 1: tim with me a and ease quote dope man Advisor

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Speaker 1: rehab dot Com telling the story. Dr Maroney, I mean

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Speaker 1: to him, that's normal to me. I'm actually crying right now.

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Speaker 1: I just to even think of it, Dr Moroney, How

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Speaker 1: how did we How did we get here? Doctor? There's

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Speaker 1: been a shift in the new normal, and you may

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Speaker 1: be uncomfortable with it, but became evident through medical mismanagement.

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Speaker 1: The proper way to evaluate pain was interfered with by

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Speaker 1: non governmental organizations, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and they pushed

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Speaker 1: medication into the public through channels education, medical societies, and

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Speaker 1: opioids became very common in our society. Okay, spake English.

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Speaker 1: When you say opioids, are you talking about oxyconton? Well,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean? What's norko, vicadin? Oxycond I went

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Speaker 1: to I went to school, not denography oxy. I'm still

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Speaker 1: on oxycodon. Okay, oxyconton? You said something about nor norco

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Speaker 1: co vicodin. Don't even try to take notes. Okay, I'm putting,

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Speaker 1: I put my fend go ahead. All you gotta know

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Speaker 1: is pain pills got out of control because there was

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Speaker 1: an organization called the Joint Commission on Hospital Accreditation that

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Speaker 1: forced this concept of pain being a fifth vital sign

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Speaker 1: down people's throats, and some of the governments in the

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Speaker 1: states and the hospitals in the medical schools said hey,

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Speaker 1: this is a good idea, and they didn't train doctors

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Speaker 1: are providers how to adequately assess pain and treat it.

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Speaker 1: Is that what happened to Tim Ryan, because it sounds

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Speaker 1: to me like it was a bag of heroin, not

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Speaker 1: at oxycont When you're saying, Dr Moroney, you're calling off

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Speaker 1: all these pharmaceutical names, I think I know what you're

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Speaker 1: talking about. You're talking about what blues kickers, O c

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Speaker 1: oxy hill, Billy heroin. Now those are the names I know.

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Speaker 1: I'm very familiar with those. Well that's what they call

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Speaker 1: it down in Atlanta. Uh huh. But here's what happens.

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Speaker 1: And when people start getting kicked off, they moved heroin

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Speaker 1: with a blink of an eye. When when people no

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Speaker 1: longer have access to the pharmaceutical medication that was pushed

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Speaker 1: on them. In a blink of an eye. They transfer

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Speaker 1: because their their minds have been rewired. They don't want

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Speaker 1: to be sick, and starting heroin is just the next

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Speaker 1: step and that's the new normal. So, Tim Ryan, addicts

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Speaker 1: may crush pills before swallowing or snorting them, dissolve pills

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Speaker 1: in water, inject them, get multiple prescriptions for narcotics from

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Speaker 1: different doctors, go to the emergency room to get more

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Speaker 1: pills when they run out, request emergency refills for medication,

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Speaker 1: drink alcohol, or use sedatents or other pain killers with

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Speaker 1: their prescription. Uh, take prescription painkillers without a prescription, just

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Speaker 1: for any reason. If you know someone that's doing these

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Speaker 1: things and more, you've got a problem. Tim Ryan a

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Speaker 1: any dopeman advisor rehab dot Com. I want to get

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Speaker 1: back to that moment that you thought it was normal,

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Speaker 1: it was okay for your son to come in with

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Speaker 1: two bags of heroin. I would completely nut up and

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Speaker 1: burn the house down. Okay, I don't even know what

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Speaker 1: I would do. Uh what happened then? So so you

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Speaker 1: have to understand, you know, I'm i'm when you're and

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Speaker 1: I will never justify because ultimately my son died and

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Speaker 1: I will be the first to admit I helped kill

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Speaker 1: my own son, and I have to live with that

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Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. I didn't start Nick

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Speaker 1: on heroin, but he followed in my footsteps, and and

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Speaker 1: I own that. But when I was in that bathtub,

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Speaker 1: profusely sick, and he said, Dad, I've got two bags

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Speaker 1: of heroin, it was good. I can do those. You're

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Speaker 1: not trying to get high. I'm just trying to feel normal.

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Speaker 1: And within two minutes I felt normal. And then ultimately

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Speaker 1: Nick and I started using, and then I was sentenced

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Speaker 1: to seven years in prison. And when I went to prison,

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Speaker 1: I left my wife high and dry, our house in foreclosure.

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Speaker 1: My addiction caused damage to everyone near and dear to me,

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Speaker 1: and by the grace of God, I was able to

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Speaker 1: get into sheared In Correctional Center in Illinois. There's twenty

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Speaker 1: eight prisons in Illinois. Two of them have a therapeutic

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Speaker 1: community run through West Carre and I got into that.

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Speaker 1: I did thirteen and a half months in that prison.

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Speaker 1: My wife divorced me, I lost our house and foreclosure.

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Speaker 1: I displaced my four kids, and my wife my son

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Speaker 1: was an active addiction. But all I did was plugged

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Speaker 1: into recovery. My cellmate night eighteen hours a day in

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Speaker 1: that cell, studied the Big Book of Alcoholics, Anonymous, the

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Speaker 1: NASI Tax sur Bible, read hundreds of books. I wrote

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Speaker 1: the business plan for the foundation I run today in

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Speaker 1: that prison cell. When I walked out, Shannon, my former

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Speaker 1: better half, picked me up. She had a little town

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Speaker 1: house set up for me in downtown Naperville. Because I

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Speaker 1: am forty nine years old today and as someone was

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Speaker 1: saying earlier, Dr Moroney, looks, I don't have a driver's license.

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Speaker 1: I have not had a driver's license in sixteen years

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Speaker 1: due to my driving on revolts driving and getting d uise.

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Speaker 1: But the good thing is I have a full time

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Speaker 1: driver in a company car, and my full time driver

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Speaker 1: as my my nineteen year old son. So I get

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Speaker 1: the honor employe viledge of working with my son every day,

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Speaker 1: speaking in schools, doing everything we do. But I got

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Speaker 1: out of prison. Shannon brought Nickmack, Tim Tim Tim Tim

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Speaker 1: Ryan any Dopeman advisor rehab dot com. You're you're Jackie

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Speaker 1: and I own the studio. We can't take it in.

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Speaker 1: You're going so fast this this story, I mean every

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Speaker 1: sentence as a whole new thing. So your wife that

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Speaker 1: divorced you, Yeah, while you were behind bars getting yourself together,

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Speaker 1: she got you a town house to move into while

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Speaker 1: you're in jail. And my mother did. And even though

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Speaker 1: Shannon divorced me, she still brought two of the kids

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Speaker 1: to visit me every two weeks. She was my biggest supporter.

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Speaker 1: And I asked her, I said, why did you not

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Speaker 1: give up on me? She said, Tim, when you went

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Speaker 1: to prison, my heart was broken. Then it got to

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Speaker 1: be a task to come and see you. Then I

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Speaker 1: was excited that you were getting out because I had

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Speaker 1: a little bit of hope that you might turn your

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Speaker 1: life around. And I did. I I started at the

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Speaker 1: support groups. W I have the families and persons struggling

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Speaker 1: coming At the same time, I set up my foundation.

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Speaker 1: I stumbled into working for a treatment center doing outreach.

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Speaker 1: And then on my nineteenth sobriety day, my twenty year

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Speaker 1: old son Nick was back in treatment for the fifth

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Speaker 1: or sixth time. And I went to meet with Nick

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Speaker 1: and he said, Dad, we're gonna speak all over the country.

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Speaker 1: We got such a crazy story, I said, Nick, I

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Speaker 1: would want nothing more than that, But you need to

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Speaker 1: get into recovery. Don't worry, Dad, I will. He got out.

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Speaker 1: Thirty days later, he's back in Cook County jail, selling

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Speaker 1: bogus bills trying to buy heroin. He did forty five

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Speaker 1: days he got out. Shannon picked him up, took him

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Speaker 1: to lunch and said, Nick, we're done. You're not coming

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Speaker 1: to my house. You're not coming to Dad's because all

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Speaker 1: you do is like eat and steal. Don't worry. I

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Speaker 1: I called Nick and I said, Nick, this is three

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Speaker 1: and a half years ago. I said, Nick, come to

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Speaker 1: my house and get some knark in. I was doing

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Speaker 1: a big training event the following week. We started handing

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Speaker 1: it out our support groups, and he said, Dad, I

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Speaker 1: believed them. Two days later, Shannon called me at six

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Speaker 1: in the morning, said, Nick, overnose, I'm coming to pick

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Speaker 1: you up. We shot to Hinsdale Hospital. We ran into

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Speaker 1: the emergency room, Jim and Shannon ryan to see our sun. Nick.

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Speaker 1: He overnoseed, and thirty seconds later the chaplain walked out.

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Speaker 1: I knew my son was dead, and I'll ask people

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Speaker 1: what was my next thought, and They'll say you wanted

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Speaker 1: to go use No, my next thought was I'll be

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Speaker 1: at the six o'clock twelve step meeting. And that's what

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Speaker 1: I did. And there's a lot more to it. But

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Speaker 1: my son died on my twenty one month sobriety date.

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Speaker 1: The newspaper was doing a big article on me because

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Speaker 1: that following Thursday, I was doing a big narcay and

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Speaker 1: training event and the reporter called me and said, Tim,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to cancel the story. I said, no, you're not.

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Speaker 1: She said you're not going through with the event, are you? Said? Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I laid my son to rest on Wednesday. I did

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Speaker 1: the event on Thursday and in the paper it said

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Speaker 1: anti heroin crusader lose this on to overdose. Unfortunately, in

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Speaker 1: my son's past, see Nick really instilled what I do today.

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Speaker 1: I can't change the past. I can't change anything I did.

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Speaker 1: All I can do is take this pain, my thirty

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Speaker 1: years of in and out of addiction and use it

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Speaker 1: for a positive to benefit people today. And I've assisted

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Speaker 1: over three thousand people into treatment. My full time job,

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Speaker 1: I worked for a treatment center out of Florida Transformations

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Speaker 1: in Delray Beach. I speak all over the country. This

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Speaker 1: is my life. Seven since Nick passed, I've buried a

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventeen people with me. Tim Ryan, A and

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Speaker 1: E's Dopeman advisor to rehab dot Com, Nanette Sosa, Dr

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Speaker 1: William Moroney, and Mark Tate, high profile lawyer suing drug companies.

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Speaker 1: Old On just a moment, I want to address something.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of cold cases out there,

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Speaker 1: like the Golden State Killer, and they've been in the

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Speaker 1: news a lot recently. But guess what, There's so many

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Speaker 1: cold case murders across the country you never hear about. Well,

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Speaker 1: Kelly Sigler and her team are changing that. On Oxygen's

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Speaker 1: Cold Justice, Kelly and her team of detectives dig into

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Speaker 1: real cold murder cases in search of answers for victims

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Speaker 1: and their families, and the show's executive producer is Dick Wolfe,

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Speaker 1: the creator of Law and Order. Each case really draws

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Speaker 1: you in. You feel like you're part of Kelly's team,

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Speaker 1: and you will love how they work so hard to

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Speaker 1: get justice because each case as personal to Kelly and

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Speaker 1: the whole team. Well, buckle up watch the new season

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Speaker 1: of Cold Justice Saturday, six pm Eastern, five pm Central,

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Speaker 1: and you can find it on Oxygen. William Maroney, opioid

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Speaker 1: treatment expert Dr Maroney, You and I have very very

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Speaker 1: similar beliefs. When I'm listening to Tim Ryan from A

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Speaker 1: and E's Dopeman from rehab dot Com, I'm thinking about

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Speaker 1: how so many people would be angry at him, blame

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Speaker 1: him for his son's death, find fault with him. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm convinced that those that are broken the

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Speaker 1: most are used the most to do good things. So

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Speaker 1: anyone listening, if you think you are beyond healing and

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Speaker 1: beyond repair and beyond doing anything with your life, please

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Speaker 1: hear the words of Tim Ryan, Dr Maroney. What happens

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Speaker 1: when you are on an opioid? How does it take

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Speaker 1: over your whole life? How does it suddenly? How is

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Speaker 1: it okay? Your son comes in and gives you a

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Speaker 1: bag of heroin and you're okay with that. Which you

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Speaker 1: have to understand is at the level that you're using.

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Speaker 1: If you don't get enough, you get sick, and what

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Speaker 1: drives you back is not necessarily the need to get high,

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Speaker 1: but you have to stop getting sick, and that's what

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Speaker 1: everybody else in America doesn't understand about how the brain

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Speaker 1: has been rewired in these people, and the number of

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Speaker 1: milligrams they continue to need to not get sick goes

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Speaker 1: up and they try to do enough drug to stop

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Speaker 1: getting sick. But what we know, it's almost like there's

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Speaker 1: this third wave. I talked about prescription drugs. That was

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Speaker 1: the first wave of addictions. The second wave of addictions

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Speaker 1: is the onset of heroin into our culture at large

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Speaker 1: volumes four or five years ago. The third wave, which

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Speaker 1: is probably starting like sometime last last year, is the

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Speaker 1: introduction of fentanyl alone and fentanyl in the heroine. People

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Speaker 1: are trying to get back to just not being sick,

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Speaker 1: but it's clear that fentanyl and heroin are changing the

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Speaker 1: American landscape forever. And all the doctors are ill equipped

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Speaker 1: with just not enough addiction doctors to help, hospitals are

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Speaker 1: inaccurately trained, and the government's can't catch up with this

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Speaker 1: because it's exploding. He's trying to just not get sick,

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Speaker 1: and what we need to do. I have a book

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Speaker 1: that clearly outlines how heroin and fentnel are exploding and

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Speaker 1: the only answer are you talking about American narcans. That's

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Speaker 1: Dr William Moroney's book. It's one of the many ways

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Speaker 1: Dr Maroney is fighting the opioid crisis. Right now. To

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Speaker 1: anyone that needs help now dial eight hundred two seven

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Speaker 1: three to five hundred. We've got to g cate families

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Speaker 1: to fireproof themselves to seven three eight to five five,

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Speaker 1: Tim Ryan, any dopeman, could you tell me? Because I

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Speaker 1: have never used a drug um an illegal drug. When

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Speaker 1: you take heroin, what feeling goes through your body. So

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Speaker 1: I never glamorized heroin used. But the way I will

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Speaker 1: explain it, I was over a year clean and sober

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Speaker 1: when I tried heroin. I was going to twelve step meetings.

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Speaker 1: But I liked the sponsor myself, and I thought I

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Speaker 1: could get sober through Osmoses. I I did it my way,

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Speaker 1: and I took a guy to Chicago to move out

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Speaker 1: of his apartment. His roommate pops out, what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: I said, I'm moving out, y'all? What are you doing?

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Speaker 1: He said? Heroin? You want to try some? When I

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Speaker 1: snorted that first bag of heroin in two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: I thought, Wow, this is what I'm looking for. This,

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Speaker 1: this is this is it. And for the first three

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Speaker 1: weeks I did a bag or two a day. I

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Speaker 1: was able to work. I thought I had more energy,

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Speaker 1: and then I ran out and I got profusely sick

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Speaker 1: and and found out I was dope sick and and

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Speaker 1: I never ran out. But it's I mean, pain pills,

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Speaker 1: oxycott and all the things that doctor mentioned are there

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Speaker 1: to relieve your pain, but so quickly. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: I took a thousand people and put them in an

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Speaker 1: auditorium and locked the door and I gave them all

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Speaker 1: opiates for a week straight, every person at the end

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Speaker 1: of that week will be addicted dopius. That's how powerful

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Speaker 1: they are. And what's happening today is this these younger generations,

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Speaker 1: and it's hitting the older aren't drinking beer. They're going

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Speaker 1: right from weed to pain pills to heroin that quickly.

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Speaker 1: I mean the youngest heron attict I've worked with is

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Speaker 1: twelve years old. The oldest is seventy eight. This affects everybody.

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Speaker 1: Mark Tait is with me, a lawyer who is actually

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Speaker 1: suing the drug companies. Mark Tait, you know, I really

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Speaker 1: don't know how you do it. You have so many

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Speaker 1: cases and you are a veteran lawyer, very well respected. Mark,

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Speaker 1: tell me in a way that we can all understand,

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Speaker 1: why are you suing drug companies? Mark, take I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you why, Financy. It's um. It's a terrible story of

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Speaker 1: what's happened, and it's all about massive pharmaceutical companies and

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Speaker 1: the power that they have to shape the way Americans

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Speaker 1: and the rest of the world think, but especially in

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Speaker 1: the United States and here, Uh, First of all, we're

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Speaker 1: one of two countries in the entire world where drug

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Speaker 1: manufacturers can market directly to the public. And we see

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Speaker 1: the ads all the time. Go ask your doctor if

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Speaker 1: you should take this drug? Ask what we should take

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Speaker 1: this drug? And so here the pharmaceutical industry is touched on,

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Speaker 1: you know, in part by Dr Moroney. They contrived this

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Speaker 1: notion number one, uh, that these drugs are used to

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Speaker 1: treat what is your fifth vital sign? And number two

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Speaker 1: then they said and came out with and published in

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Speaker 1: the American Journal of Medicine UM that opioid medications were

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Speaker 1: not addictive. And then the first we need to get

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Speaker 1: people out into the medical public. And they're called plug

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Speaker 1: reps or detailed reps. And those detailed reps were trained

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Speaker 1: to go to surgeons and say, listen, what you really

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Speaker 1: need is you need to be able to perform your

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Speaker 1: surgical interventions on your patients, and then you need them

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Speaker 1: to be pain free from that surgery, completely pain free.

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Speaker 1: And no OxyContin is not UH is not addictive, and

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Speaker 1: no hydro codone is not addictive, and no fentnyl is

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Speaker 1: not addictive. And so the reason that they did that

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Speaker 1: is the massive profits that they make because you know,

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Speaker 1: the cost of manufacturing these drugs is very small in

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Speaker 1: comparison to some other other drugs, and so the profit

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Speaker 1: margin is massive. And so I started to see some

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Speaker 1: time ago that some folks were trying to sue individual

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Speaker 1: medical doctors for over prescribing, and those lawsuits generally did

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Speaker 1: not fail. So about a year and a half two

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Speaker 1: years ago, I, along with a former partner of mine,

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Speaker 1: approached Fulton County, Georgia, because they, like Dr Moroney's, area

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Speaker 1: has its own public health department where they incur great

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Speaker 1: deals of cost directly related to the opioid manufacturing in

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Speaker 1: the opioid crisis, which was existing two years ago. Well,

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Speaker 1: what you're taking on a very very powerful, very powerful

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Speaker 1: adversary by suing drug companies with me. Mark Tate kind

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Speaker 1: of feels like a David and Goliath scenario. Ninette Sosa,

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories, investigative reporter, Nanette, why is it being termed

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Speaker 1: an epidemic? A crisis? And I noticed that the president

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Speaker 1: just declared war on the opioid crisis, but I recalled Nanette.

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Speaker 1: So so, when I first started as a district attorney

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Speaker 1: in inner city Atlanta, the elected D A. Louis Layton

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Speaker 1: sent me to the hill. In other words, the Assembly,

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Speaker 1: the Georgia legislature to push anti crime issues, and the

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Speaker 1: politicians were forever making this proclamation and that law and

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Speaker 1: this law, but then they wouldn't give in any money,

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Speaker 1: so the laws meant nothing. I mean, I could order

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Speaker 1: somebody to drug rehab every day of the week, but

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Speaker 1: without a drug rehab facility, there were not enough beds,

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Speaker 1: so they would sit in jail for a year waiting

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Speaker 1: their time will be done. They'd get out without ever

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Speaker 1: getting rehab. So when you put a law on the books,

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Speaker 1: that's a joke. That means nothing unless you give it

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Speaker 1: the money the nets. So so, why what are the stats?

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Speaker 1: Why is it being called an opioid epidemic? A crisis

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Speaker 1: in the US. It's called an epidemic because it's been

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Speaker 1: so overprescribed by physicians for a while. Beginning in the nineties,

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Speaker 1: there was an under prescription problem. People um complained. So

424
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: because of that, regulators became involved and said, well, let's

425
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: loosen these regulations so physicians can prescribe more pain pills,

426
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: and so as a result, users then became addicted after

427
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: being prescribed. Today, people who are using or have been

428
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 1: prescribed massive amount of opioids for their pain can no

429
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: longer get prescriptions. Now they're hitting the streets and using

430
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: it illegally. Dr William Moroney, let's talk about statistics. Why

431
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: is it being called a crisis an epidemic explained that

432
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: to me, here's the number one reason why the numbers

433
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: are going up so fast. In two thousand fifteen, there

434
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: were fifty two, four hundred and four overdoses. In two

435
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: thousand sixteen, CNN, the CDC, and The New York Times

436
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: quoted sixty four thousand opioid overdose deaths. I project in

437
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: my book American Narcan for two thousand seventeen, we will

438
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,719
Speaker 1: have over seventy thousand, almost seventy nine thousand overdoses, and

439
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: by we will have over a hundred thousand overdoses in

440
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 1: America because the first wave, the second wave, and the

441
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: third wave are just happening so fast. It's outpacing medical education,

442
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: it's outpacing criminal justice. I'm listening to Dr William Moroney,

443
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 1: author of a brand new book, American narcan Opioid Expert,

444
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: Tim Ryan, A and E's Dope Man with Me Nanette Sosa,

445
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: Mark Tate, Tim Ryan, My husband had a very very

446
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: dear friend that he worked with for years and years

447
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 1: and years, and he had the apple of his eye

448
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: was his son. Okay, I don't know if you've ever

449
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: seen um the Harry Potter series, but I always think

450
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: of Cedric Diggory, who his father just you know, worshiped

451
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: his son and then his son eyes and the pain

452
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: you see that reminds me of this father, this father's son,

453
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: my husband's friend, al A's great student, cross country track

454
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: star and some private school, I mean everything. You couldn't

455
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: even see this guy at the grocery store that I'm

456
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: showing you pictures of the sun at this track made

457
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: he won this, He did that. His son tried heroin, Tim,

458
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: he tried heroin. After the first time he got addicted,

459
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: the father immediately sent him to the best addiction recovery

460
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: center he could find in the whole United States. He

461
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: got clean, he came back, he got back on track.

462
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: The next thing we heard he died of an overdose.

463
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: He was seventeen, Tim seventeen. It's it's people you don't expect,

464
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: you know. It's people out on the street. It's junkies.

465
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: It's Uh, the waitress at the waffle else, it's across

466
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: all races. Um, it's the rich white kid. It's everybody.

467
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: Tim Ryan, it's you. It's your son. He's dead because

468
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: of an overdose. Explain it to people that don't understand,

469
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: that have never used opioids. So you know, we have

470
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: to understand here, this is the new in drug. When

471
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: I'm dealing with kids or family members struggling, I wanted

472
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: to fit in the pressure. I just wanted to try it.

473
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: And if you try it that one time, that's it.

474
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: And as the doctor said from five years ago when

475
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: I was using too, now, it's not just heroine, it's fentanyl.

476
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: Fentanyl is a thousand times stronger than pure heroine. Even

477
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: a lot of these pills that kids think they're buying

478
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: a xan x bar. It's cross fent it's fear fentinyl.

479
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: You know, it's everywhere. We need much more education. And

480
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: the thing I hear from families not my family. We

481
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: live in a good community. We go to church on Sunday.

482
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: So what you need to know who your friends are

483
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: involved with, be into their technology. Disaffects everyone. The big

484
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: misconception Nancy is the heroin addict as a homeless person

485
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: on the corner with the needle in their arms. My

486
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: son never used the needle. He started heroin and his

487
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: buddy gave him a barzanex. The average heroin addict today

488
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: is the twenty two year old white middle class female

489
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: and its twenty three year old white middle class male.

490
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: I am in the middle of central Illinois right now,

491
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: in farm communities. I'm speaking at three high schools today.

492
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: One high school has four hundred students. They've had ten

493
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: overnose that's in this little community in the past year.

494
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: This is everywhere. It's not going away. It's getting much

495
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: much worse. But what else is happening to We need

496
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: laws like the Good Samaritan Law. When I speak in

497
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: high schools all over the country. None of this students

498
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: know what the Good Samaritan laws and the Good Samaritan laws.

499
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: If me and you were doing drugs together and you overdose,

500
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: I can call one. The police will com hopefully save

501
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: your life, take the drugs. Leave. Nobody gets arrested. Because

502
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: when my son died, he was with his girlfriend and

503
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: two other friends. They knew Nick was overdosing, and they panicked.

504
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: They were afraid to call the police. They had drugs,

505
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: they didn't know about the law. They put him on

506
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: the sofa, he was breathing. They went in the basement,

507
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: did more drugs, forgot about him. Came up an hour

508
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: later and Nick was dead. You know, I've been reading

509
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: online and I want to go back to the Good Samaritan.

510
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: While you're talking about I read a story about story

511
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: about a mom named Kim Farrennick. She lost her daughter

512
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: Dana to a drug o d Now listen to Dana

513
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,479
Speaker 1: what she is. On the high school swim team, a

514
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: cheerleader in junior high and high school, her whole life

515
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: ahead of her her. She got into a cycle of

516
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: addiction treatment relapse, addiction treatment relapse. She got her straight

517
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: out of one relapse and took her on a vacation

518
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: to Wildwood, and this is the part that broke my heart.

519
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: She says, I remember this trip like it was yesterday,

520
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: because for that week I felt like I had my

521
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: daughter back. But right after coming back home, she found

522
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: her daughter face down, cold and blue. She died of

523
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: an opioid overdose. She is pushing nolaxone. Dr Maroney, what

524
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: is an laxon? The Loxon is the generic name for

525
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: one of the brands Narcan. It's been out for forty years.

526
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: Surgery and the emergency room have used the lockson as

527
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: an injectable to reverse anesthesia and overdose in the hospital.

528
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: We need to change the model. We need to put

529
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: Jennoo or branded Narcan in every home in America to

530
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: prevent children, parents and spouses from dying. We have to

531
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: change that model. It must be in every house. And

532
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: this is so obvious because opioids have run rampant, and

533
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: the translation to heroin is transparent. It's it's just so easy.

534
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: If you're taking high doses of opioids, it's simple to

535
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: crush them and check them or snort them, and as

536
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: soon as you do that, there's no difference than heroin.

537
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: So people make that transfer. And the only way we're

538
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: going to stop people from dying is putting the lock

539
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: on or narcan in the homes. We have to educate

540
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: people with books and movies and videos. You know, I

541
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,719
Speaker 1: wanna talk about the fact that Tim Ryan, so often

542
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: people get addicted or they try heroin or for the

543
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: first time because it's offered by a friend that they

544
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: know or a family member. That's that's how they get

545
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: into it. Tim, I I agree and with with prescription

546
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: pain pills. Of the kids that get started on pain

547
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: pills get them from a family member or a friend.

548
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: So so Johnny on the track team hurts his knee

549
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: and Dad says, well, you know what, I've got some

550
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 1: Viking in from when I had my back surgery. Take

551
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: a few of these or these parents are having unused

552
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: prescriptions left in their medicine cabinets. Get rid of them.

553
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: Because Johnny comes over to cut your lawn and says, hey, Nancy,

554
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: can I use your bathroom? Sure you can, Johnny. He

555
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 1: goes in. He's rifling through your cabinet, taking all your

556
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: unused prescription pain meds and and Narcan is essential. But

557
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: I want to take Narcan a step further, it's a

558
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: tool to save a life. But what's happening. I just

559
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: had a kid over no Saturday night. His mother called me,

560
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: the paramedics came, they revived him, he refused to go

561
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 1: to the hospital, and they just left. They didn't bring

562
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: in any peer recovery support specialists to talk to this kid.

563
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 1: Twelve hours later, he overdosed again. See every time I overdosed.

564
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: As soon as I got clarity, I was out of

565
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: the hospital. I would like to see a law put

566
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: into place whereof someone overdoses and it is brought back

567
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 1: by narcian through a paramedic or law enforcement, they're remanded

568
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: into treatment on the spot. If they did not have

569
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: that drug, they would be dead, and we're letting them

570
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: walk out of the hospital three hours later. It's so

571
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: important what he just said, because we do not let

572
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: people have oh heart attacks at home and say I'm

573
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: not going to go to the hospital before we head

574
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: back into fact finding. Thank you to another partner making

575
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 1: our program possible. And it is circle circle Circle with Disney.

576
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's so easy to just read a script

577
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: going through all of the features, but I want to

578
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: taught parent to parent. You know, we all know the

579
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: Internet has so much to offer our children. They're going

580
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: to grow up only knowing a world with the Internet.

581
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: That's not the way we grew up. But there are

582
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: parts corners of the Internet you don't want your children

583
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: going to. It's hard enough to monitor what your children

584
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: are up to online seven three sixty five. There is

585
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: an endless list of complicated, technical, expensive solutions that require

586
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: an I T tech pro to come install hardware and

587
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: software on your home. That if that affects everybody in

588
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: the family. But there's an answer. It's Circle with Disney.

589
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 1: It's a little device designed for families to manage content

590
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: and time online for all the devices in your home.

591
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 1: You can filter content, set up time limits. You can

592
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: even set a bedtime. It's easy to set up, which

593
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: is good for me and everybody in the family can

594
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 1: have their own setting, and that way your children don't

595
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: end up in scary parts of the Internet where you

596
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: don't want them to be. But mom and dad can

597
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: still use the Internet to get their work done. I mean,

598
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 1: I certainly don't want my children researching the spots I'm

599
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,439
Speaker 1: on where I'm researching heinous crimes. I don't want them

600
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: there so long story short. This is what you do

601
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: with Circle Disney. You keep them safe, but you still

602
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: use the Internet as you wish. Use offer code Nancy

603
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: at Circle with Nancy dot com to get ten dollars

604
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: off your Circle plus free shipping again Circle with Nancy

605
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: dot Com offer code Nancy Circle with Nancy dot Com

606
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: offer code Nancy ten dollars off your Circle and free

607
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 1: shipping Circle. I want to thank you from making the

608
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: Internet a safer place for my two ten year olds.

609
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: Mark Tait is a high profile lawyer actually suing the

610
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: drug companies. Mark take Do you really think you've got

611
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: a chance? Think we have a chance because all of

612
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: the things that both Tim and Dr Maroney have been

613
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: talking about that are necessary and have become necessary to

614
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: handle all of the things that are going on because

615
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: of the intentional misconduct of the pharmaceutical companies and their distributors.

616
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: Those are the costs that we're talking about, and those

617
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,280
Speaker 1: costs extend even to law enforcement that counties and cities

618
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: and states are bearing regarding every officer now having to

619
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: carry narci in, every first responder having to carry narcian,

620
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: all of these issues about overdoses. We have instances in

621
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: which counties have have had to expand their corners units

622
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: in order to house the bodies of overdose victims in

623
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: places and counties that are fortunate enough to have their

624
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 1: own county public health systems. Huge costs are being borne

625
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 1: by the taxpayers ultimately in order to essentially subsidize the

626
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: vast profits of companies like a Mayor Sourcebergen and Cardinal

627
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: Health and Produce Arma and Jansen Pharmaceutical, and all of

628
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: these companies are subjected to practices that are uniform in

629
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: the country. Acts that are uniform in the country Controlled

630
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: Substances Act and Pharmaceutical Practices Act. But the issue is

631
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: and what we will overcome because of finally, community is

632
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: tired of bearing costs. Is what happened to the first

633
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: lawsuit you filed the Fulton County. One of the defendants

634
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: came to Fulton County and said, we want to open

635
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: a distributorship here, that there's this lawsuit pending. That company

636
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: forced Fulton County to dismiss their first lawsuit. Fulton County

637
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: finally said, no, we're spending too much money taking care

638
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: of overdosing people and outfitting our task force task force

639
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: and indigent burials that we're going to refile, and that

640
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 1: lawsuit is now pending again. And they're not the only one, Nanaso.

641
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: So that's certainly a fine. How do you do that?

642
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 1: The government is spending too much money on indigent burials

643
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: because of overdoses. In other words, so many people are

644
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: are you dam they don't have enough money to pay

645
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: for their burials? Yes, yes, and yes and no? And

646
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: is that the true clux of the problem. And I'm

647
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: going to give you an example. Nancy in Barnstable over

648
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: in Cape Cod Barnstable Jail, when they release their inmates

649
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: who are addicts, they are now providing them with vivitral injections.

650
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: It's an an abuse in addition to required therapy. And

651
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: these inmates, even though they've served their time and have

652
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: been released and their drug addicts, they are now giving

653
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: them vivitral. Vivitral is not cheap twelve hundred fifteen hundred

654
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: bucks in injection. I'm sure the jail is getting a

655
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: break on the cost. I don't know about that, but

656
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: it's expensive. So this is one community that's taking their uh.

657
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,720
Speaker 1: People who are coming out of jails who are drug

658
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 1: addicts and trying to rehab them. On the flip side,

659
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: people who are taking vivitral have last I've talked to

660
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: them where they said, yeah, but we can just use

661
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: another substitute drug or use some alcohol, and we know

662
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: how to plan it out, just to make it under

663
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: the wire of pretending that we're clean and sober when

664
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: they're not. So it's a double edged sword there. And

665
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: as far as varying UH, you know, indigent people and

666
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: so forth, a lot of the communities um in the lawsuits,

667
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's just take law firm. They want the

668
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: communities want to recoup the costs that they're spending extra

669
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 1: on emergency services and e R and e ER costs.

670
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 1: So it's I don't think that's you don't think what's

671
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: why what? But I don't think. I don't think the

672
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: community saying about indigence indigent deaths is one reason why

673
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 1: they cannot invest in UH diversion programs. I think what

674
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: they're saying is that they're following the lawsuit because the

675
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: expense of opioid O days has become astronomical. Tim Ryan

676
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: as Dopeman, following up on something the net SOCA said,

677
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: And I've been reading so many true life stories online

678
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: um and pairing them with the people I worked with

679
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: when I was prosecuting what you have to do to

680
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: break free of this? And one thing is uh, no alcohol,

681
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: no smoking, nothing. Well, why is it so important that

682
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: you break ties with old friends, change your phone number,

683
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: no alcohol, smoking, nothing, admit your mistakes and go to

684
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: narcotics anonymous meanings? Why are those steps so important? Because

685
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: you have to understand what the big misconception families have

686
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: is I sent my loved one to treatment. A The

687
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: average opean addict goes to treatment six times. So if

688
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: we then and that's why you know I'm with THREEHB

689
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: dot Com. I work for a treatment center because I

690
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 1: want people to come once and and hopefully grasp everything

691
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 1: but getting away the substances. You gotta work with the

692
00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: underlying trauma. But then living recovery is a whole different

693
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: prink gamut. We need people going into long term, structured

694
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: sober living communities. They have to learn to put recovery first.

695
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 1: May be in five years clean and sober, I still

696
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: attend four twelve step meetings a week. I still have

697
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: a sponsor, and I always sponsor at least one person.

698
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: My job, my speaking events, right in a book. Everything

699
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: else I do is my career. My recovery is a

700
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: complete lifestyle. You need to change people, places and things.

701
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 1: And I'll go back to my son Nick that died.

702
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: We always had great insurance. We I didn't know I

703
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: could send my son out of state and put him

704
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: in a long term, ninety day program. He would do

705
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: three weeks. He's out the door to the same people,

706
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: places and things. His chances of success were slim to none.

707
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 1: In hindsight, I would have done things totally different, um,

708
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 1: and that's what I'm trying to do now. But what

709
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: would you have done differently, Tim Ryan, I would have

710
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: got Nick on a plane and I would send him

711
00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: down to Florida in a minute, or send him to

712
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,760
Speaker 1: a long term treatment program like my program, Transformation Treatment Center,

713
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,439
Speaker 1: which is my employer. I can put someone in there

714
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: with good insurance on a ninety day structured program and

715
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 1: it's gender specific. He could do twelve step bats. He

716
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: can do Christian bas Well. I noticed the same thing, Tim,

717
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: that when people would get out of jail, they just

718
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: go back because I guess they don't know what else

719
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: to do. They just go back to the same people

720
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: they knew before and history repeats itself. But I want

721
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 1: to ask you about the other issues. Why is it

722
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: so important that you don't have any alcohol, smoking nothing?

723
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: Why the addicts say that while you have to understand,

724
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: once you have went into the opiate world, there's no

725
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: going back. So you get people that get on vivitral

726
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: and they might not have the cravings for opiates. But

727
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: that's another tool. You still need to be loving living recovery.

728
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,240
Speaker 1: But if I go back to smoking some weed drinking,

729
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,280
Speaker 1: I will ultimately go back after my drug to choice.

730
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: If you sober up a horse seek, what do you have?

731
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 1: You have a sober thief. So you need to teach

732
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,919
Speaker 1: that person how to live life without altering their mind.

733
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: And what I asked people is what's so wrong with

734
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: you that you need to be altered? You need to

735
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: get to the underlining clauses and conditions. Um And I

736
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: looked at my life and I had a lot of trauma.

737
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: I was adopted. I had an older brother that was

738
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: a narcissist to beat me up all the time. I

739
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: had learning disabilities. I was molosted by a female babysitter

740
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 1: at twelve. Boom, there's all my trauma that was never

741
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: dealt with drugs and alcohol became my solution. Why is it?

742
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: Tim Ryan with A and E's dopeman also with me

743
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: William Dr William Moroney, author of American Narcan mark Tate,

744
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 1: high profile lawyers suing drug companies, and investigative reporter for

745
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: crime stories n Nette Sosa. Why is it so important,

746
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: Tim Ryan that you change your phone number and break

747
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 1: ties with all of your older friends. That's hard to

748
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: do to him? Well, it is, And I'm gonna go

749
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 1: back to the people in prison or jail or county jails.

750
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: Here's the problem. You take me an opiate addict or

751
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: or an addict in general, and lock me in jail

752
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 1: for two years, give me no tools, no resources, and

753
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: release me within thirty days. I'm gonna be back to use.

754
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: And that's what we do. We're creatures a habit in

755
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: our institutions. We meet need more twelve step based Christian

756
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 1: based smart recovery, refuge recovery therapeutic communities within the jail.

757
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: We need drug pods so people can start working on

758
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: themselves why they're incarcerated, and we need wraparound services for

759
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: when they're getting out. The one key factor that people

760
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 1: don't have is jobs. They can't get a job because

761
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: they're a felling now. Um, they might not have graduated

762
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: high school and they have no opportunity. They have nothing

763
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: to look forward to, and they go back to what

764
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: they know. But you've got to change every aspect of

765
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: your life. Of the people I associate with our in recovery,

766
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: I have no business being around people that. I don't

767
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: go hang out at bars, I don't go to parties.

768
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: I just have no business doing it. But it took

769
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 1: me a long time to want to change that. And

770
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: you don't have to go to the depths. I went

771
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: to a forty four years old getting sentenced to seven

772
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: years in prison. And I want families to know. And

773
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it to plug my book, but if

774
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,919
Speaker 1: you've got a family member struggling, go to Amazon get

775
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,479
Speaker 1: my book A Man in Recovery From Dope to Hope

776
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: by Kim Ryan, and you will understand why that person

777
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,399
Speaker 1: does what they do because I explain everything in there,

778
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: and it's a tool for people getting sober and active

779
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: addiction or family members that have a loved one strong one.

780
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: I want to point out the statistic that Dr William

781
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: Moroney first told me, author of American Narcan drug overdoses

782
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: into last year killed more Americans then the entire wars

783
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: in Vietnam and Iraq. The opioid epidemic last year killed

784
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: more Americans than the entire wars in Vietnam and Iraq.

785
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,