WEBVTT - Ep 120: Oliver Sim 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:03.960 When something is shouting at me to feel a certain way, 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:08.000 my automatic reaction will always be bullshit. 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.600 Hello again, and welcome back to Midnight Chat, a podcast 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.880 of informal interviews with musicians we love, posted weekly at 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:21.840 midnight to suit these very unplanned conversations. This week's episode 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:25.160 is hosted by me Stuart Stubbs, the editor of Loud 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:29.040 and Quiet magazine, and tonight's guest on the podcast is 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:32.479 Oliver sim who I'm sure you know already is a 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:37.360 member of the British trio The XX, alongside his very 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:41.760 good and very long standing friends Jamie Smith aka Jamie 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.479 XX and Rommy madley Croft. He's known Ronny since he 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.760 was three years old. They went to nursery together. Oliver's 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:52.519 on the podcast, though, not to talk about a new 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:56.080 XX record, but about his debut solo album. It's called 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:01.360 Hideous Bastard Incredible Name, and it is out this Friday, 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:06.240 which is what that's the ninth of September. I spoke 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:10.440 to Oliver as you're here pretty much exactly two weeks ago. 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:12.960 We do get into a bit of XX Chat, though, 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.600 reminisce a bit about the old days, particularly about a 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.720 show that I once put on with a couple of friends. 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.240 Shout out to Ian and Sasha, but we mainly there's 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.480 a lot to talk about with Hideous Bastard. It comes 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.880 with a film which will be available on the streaming 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:33.520 service Movie Perhaps Now. It's kind of a horror film. 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:36.040 We talk a bit about horror films that's inspired this 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:40.600 record as well, a very personal record for Oliver. We 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:44.120 talk about a track called Hideous, which is the first 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.000 track on the album. It features Jimmy Somemerville and it's 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:50.200 a song in which Oliver openly talks about how he's 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:53.800 been living with HIV since he was seventeen years old. 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:56.680 So we get into that as well. I'm not gonna 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.360 say anymore than that because I've got one thing that 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.000 I've just quick like to plug. We don't do many 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.480 parties at Loud and Quiet anymore, but we are hosting 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:10.560 a special party with Village Underground. They're celebrating fifteen years 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:12.919 of their venue here in London, and we've got a 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.840 show on the nineteenth of September. There's a link in 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.400 the show notes to this episode that will get you 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.400 ten percent off tickets. Tickets are only thirteen pounds anyway. 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:25.760 We've got theon cross Playing, Donnad Thompson and Lunch Money Life, 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:30.520 all incredible artists doing different things with jazz and rock 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.000 and experimental music. All the information is in that link 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:36.920 in the show notes. Hopefully I'll see some of you 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:42.640 there right then, here is Oliver sim talking mainly about 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.560 his new album Hideous Bastard. I employ you to check 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:47.840 it out. It's an amazing record and it comes out 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:53.200 this Friday on the ninth of September. This episode of 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.839 Midnight Chats is supported by London South Bank Center, who 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.639 have so much coming up in that autumn season it's 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:02.440 hard to know where to start, but here are two 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:06.919 events that look particularly special. Lorraine James will be performing 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.760 live at the Queen Elizabeth Hall on October the second 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:14.000 with the London Contemporary Orchestra for My Money. Lorraine is 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:17.560 one of our best electronic musicians and if you haven't 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:21.040 seen her live yet, she is incredible even when she's 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:22.720 on her own, So this is going to be a 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.960 very special show where she will be performing an homage 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:30.400 to the New York composer Julius Eastman with the LCO 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.520 or perhaps an evening with Nick Cave is more up 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:36.800 your Street as part of London Literature Festival. Here be 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:40.040 in conversation at the south Bank Center on October the 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.840 twenty seventh with Sean O'Hagan, as the pair discussed their 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.800 new book Faith, Hope and Carnage. Tickets for both of 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:51.160 those events can be found at Southbankcentre dot co dot uk, 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.000 but I've also linked to both of them in the 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:58.000 show notes of this episode. As I say, there's plenty 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:00.720 more going on at the south Bank this autumn, including 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:04.240 Christine and the Queens, Janeweaver and a late nighter with 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:08.680 the excellent Snapped Ankles. Visit Southbank Center dot co dot 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:12.120 uk and thank you once again to them for supporting 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:17.520 this episode of Midnight Chats. 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:22.800 So today marks it is two weeks until the album 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:28.320 comes out, and it's come about really quickly. From like 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:33.120 feeling like it was ages away, it's now pretty much 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:39.160 here and I feel so conflicted because I'm like, I want, 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.599 I want it out. I want it out right now. 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:45.840 Also I don't want it out. It's like releasing records 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:48.960 just comes like there is like a faint air of sadness. 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.200 I like, right now that it's my option to play 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.280 it to people right and I have ownership, and like, realistically, 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.239 I can't change anything. It's like the vinyls are printed, 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.080 it's done, ready to go. Yeah, but in the back 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.279 of my head, I still kind of could change things. 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:09.040 Have you stopped listening to it for that reason? Because 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:11.640 I would stop listening to it at this point myself. 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:15.080 It takes years to get to that point though. Like 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:19.679 the our first album with the XX had its tenth 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:25.960 Anniverse three a few years back, we had like a 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:29.520 playback and listening to it then was one of the 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:33.360 first time ten years later that I was like, I 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:35.920 wasn't critiquing it. I wasn't like, oh I've changed that. 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.800 I wouldn't do that, and I was able to like 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.960 switch off and actually listen to it. What do you 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:49.279 think of their record now? It's nice to listen to it. 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:54.240 It's I think we sound like babies. I think because 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:59.720 we were babies, we really were, And it's it's it's 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:01.280 fun to listen to it because I'm like, oh, I 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:05.200 wouldn't make that choice today. Oh, I like, I don't 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:09.640 understand that choice or where that went there in a 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:14.480 nice way, it's it's it is a time in our 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:18.320 lives that it's just like cemented and encapsulated, which is 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:18.880 really nice. 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:23.160 So two weeks till the new record, do you think 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:25.599 the anxiety is just going to ramp up until release day? 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:31.760 I'm keeping busy. I'm keeping really busy. I'm like, it's 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.520 it's different because normally, like I do have Ronny and 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:41.320 Jamie tellin on, but this is my record. I see 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:45.240 what there were so many feelings of just like naivety, 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:47.160 Like I've been doing this for quite a long time, 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.800 but like there is a naivety and just like an 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.560 unknown that's really nice to feel. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.320 Again, do you mean just in the sense of like 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:01.640 not having Jamie and Rommy to there with doing it 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:06.680 yourself on your own like that that whole thing kind 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.720 of it just it reminds me of that first record 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.720 because it's like I we didn't know, we didn't know 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:14.600 how that it was going to be received, where it 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.600 was going to take us, and like I've definitely my 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.800 enthusiasm for the XX has only grown, but it changes 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.800 record from record of like, well, you know, you have 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.120 this other piece of work behind you to like support you, 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.880 and I don't have that. This is this is my 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:42.120 first record on my own and it's scary, but it's exciting. 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.040 It's it's I feel like I'm like reconnecting with like 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.880 teenage feelings, which is always nice to feel. Yeah, that's 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.240 quite nice, isn't I kind of I speak about this. 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:55.800 I tend to speak about this a lot on the 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.440 podcast as I go through my midlife crisis. I tend 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:03.200 to talk a lot with artists about kind of missing 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:11.080 that teenage kind of horrible but nice feeling of that 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.760 those teenage anxieties that you had, like you kind of 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.600 start to miss them when there's enough distance between them 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:19.280 happening and where you are now. 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:21.360 The drama. 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:28.080 The drama is like, yeah, I'm thinking about like I've 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.880 always had like a wild imagination, but like the drama, 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:36.480 especially around romance of like I could take the smallest 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:41.120 like morsel of like potential of romance that could feed 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:42.480 my imagination for like. 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:48.319 A year, all just like months. Yeah, I missed that drama. 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:52.400 Have the other two given you any sort of tips 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.760 because they've obviously released solo albums and solo work. 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:57.120 Yeah? 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.880 Have they kind of been coaching you through this period 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.280 or have they just said, Oliver, you're on your own, 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:03.120 We've been there. 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:09.040 No, they're there, and then that Jamie's just Jamie's too 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:14.120 like cool for school sometimes and he's just but he's 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:16.800 also invested, like he I made this record with it, 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.280 so he's like very invested. But I don't know, Like 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:26.000 Rommy's finishing her record at the moment, and we've been 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:30.680 kind of like coaching each other through it and like 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:32.920 the whole though she didn't work on this record, she's 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.880 like been by my side the whole time and like 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:41.720 playing each other what we've been doing, which has been great. 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:46.240 And like Rommie, I've known since I was three years old. 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:50.880 We've done like nursery, primary school, secondary school, sixth form. 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:56.319 We've had a career together there and I love her, 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.400 I support her, I celebrate her. But there is a 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.400 part of me that is just like pure sibling. When 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:07.040 she does well, there is nothing more like a greater 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:10.240 source of energy of just like so when we've been 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.839 like meeting actually playing me a song, I'm like, damn, 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:13.360 that's good. 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:18.599 Damn I've got to like I've got I've got to 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:19.400 go one better. 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:20.120 Yeah. 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:23.560 One thing I love about the XX and you three 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:27.000 is how tight you still are, like you know, because 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.000 you have been doing this as you say, for a 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:32.120 while now. Just had the tenth anniversary of the of 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:35.600 the debut, and but you know, Jamie produced this album 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.319 with you. You work, you contribute to each other's solo 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.000 material and have done since you started doing bits and 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.720 pieces each and I think that's quite rare. You know, 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:46.360 maybe it just maybe it does come down to the 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:47.640 fact that you and Rommy, you know, I've known each 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.160 other since you were three, and that's like a bond 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:54.640 that is unbreakable in certain ways. But is there like 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:59.000 a secret, like I kind of see you as like 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:03.560 that This is how bands should This is the ideal situation. 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.400 You know, your your you make records when you want to, 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:10.600 you don't rush them, you but you you know, in 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:14.400 those periods it's obviously very intense and touring and all 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:15.880 of that sort of stuff, and that sort of thing 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.400 is normally what breaks bands up, even if they've got 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.360 really close friends. In some siblings can't you know, be 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:24.280 in bands with each other and it kind of ruins 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:28.720 their relationships. But you three seem to have this relationship 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:32.120 that is constantly getting stronger, if you know what I mean. 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:36.200 I wish I don't know what the secret is that 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.960 we've definitely had moment. I get why tour is the 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.600 one that breaks is the part that breaks people, because 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:50.319 it's it's the it's the being around each other when 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:54.080 it's not necessarily our choice, like it's it's we're just 0:11:55.320 --> 0:12:01.000 constantly with each other, and it takes away that, you know, 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.679 I've decided to hang out with you. We are just 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:08.760 together twenty four to seven. But it's I don't know, 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:15.560 it's just never really those scales between like being friends 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:22.920 and colleagues have never like tilted the wrong way. I wish, 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.960 I wish I had tips and secrets, but it is 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:36.200 it is actually fairly easy for the most part. Like 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.920 I still love them and I still see them out 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:43.040 of toys, just to be friends, no music involved. 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:48.880 Yeah, yeah, I remember when Crystallized first came out and 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.920 I interviewed you were a four piece, then it was one. 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.120 I like to say it was your first interview. I've 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:58.400 been dining out on this ever since two thousand and nine, 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.880 but it was so exciting to watch your band kind 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:08.199 of grow and and kind of just then almost not overnight, 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.560 but I remember it just suddenly stepping up a notch 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:15.000 because we put on a show. I co hosted a 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:21.080 show that you guys played with Little Boots DJ. It 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:24.000 was in a basement, I'm sure I remember this, but 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.640 it was in like a weird part of town here 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:31.480 in London. It was in like ELL's Court under there's 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.280 a cafe over there and Troubadour, the. 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:40.160 Troubadoor Theoretical Girl. Yes we're playing, Yes I do. I 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:44.880 do remember very well that that show was the first 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:49.880 time we played Crystallized. We just we just wrote it 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:53.880 like that week that's trying it out. 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.040 It was the first time I'd seen I saw you. 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:58.640 It was then and the first time I heard the 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.440 first time, very first time I saw he was me 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:02.840 and Sasha and I and who were putting on the 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:06.680 night we came watching the sound check, and I remember 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:08.600 the three of us clapped at the end of the 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:12.400 sound check, which I have since learned one does not do. 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.360 But we were like just like mesmerized by and we 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:22.000 were particularly mesmerized by like Jamie at his MPC going 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:26.040 and we are like wow, and and I remember that. 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.320 I'm really distinctly remember that night, and I remember that, 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.520 and it was at a time when when you know, 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:34.520 it was kind of bubbling up for you, and like 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:36.720 you were playing a lot of shows around town, I think, 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:39.720 and then maybe I saw you like a couple of 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.000 times since then, but I remember then all of a sudden, 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.440 I saw you at Prima Era Sound playing on like 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:49.320 the Amphitheater ray Band stage, which felt like maybe the 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.760 distance between those two shows is a much longer than 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:55.680 I then. I know that I am recalling, but it 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:59.760 was suddenly like, oh wow, like this is this is 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:02.160 a They're absolutely huge one. The Mercury and all that 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.680 sort of stuff. I mean, so much has happened since 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.040 then and now, and like I could sit here and 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.200 bombard you with a million questions about all that stuff. 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.280 But we should talk about the album because I've heard 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:15.760 the album. I've listened to it a lot. It's I 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.240 think it's brilliant. I've also watched the film. I saw 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.960 the film yesterday, so I've got some things to ask 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:23.320 you about that. But let's talk. Let's start. I guess 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:30.160 with Hideous, the track that essentially announced the album, extremely 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:35.640 personal track for you. It's I suppose what I wanted 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.840 to ask you about that was like, it's probably frightening 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.520 enough for you to be in this successful group and 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:45.800 be doing your first solo album and be doing that 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.280 is kind of a you know, a big thing in 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.000 and of itself. But for you to come out with 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:55.040 the track you did that openly talks about your HIV 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:59.360 status in the way that it does. I mean that 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.200 takes it to a whole new kind of level. My 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:05.000 two questions on it, really one is how did you 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.320 feel the day that was coming out? Can you take 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.240 me back to how you you knew that was going 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:13.600 to be sent out by the label and that was 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.240 going to be a story from like music, press and stuff. 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:18.360 How did you How did you feel? 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:26.640 I fell? So I was in can I was at 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:31.280 Camp Film Festival, and I was like busy doing a 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.800 day of press and I remember it was went out 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:40.920 at three and I was doing an interview from I 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:44.320 think like two thirty to three thirty, which was perfect, great, 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.960 which was perfect and minute. I wasn't like gleed to 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:55.840 my phone or anything. But it it was uncomfortable. It 0:16:55.920 --> 0:17:01.840 was uncomfortable. And like I've had like moments of this 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:06.119 has been as a general thing, like been very liberating, 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:13.200 but it hasn't been you know, I've had very few. No, 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.320 I don't think I've had any moments that I just 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.000 like flipping a switch of Oh, I suddenly feel so 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:22.520 much lighter, I feel liberated, I feel free air and 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:27.119 everything like that has been slow burn. And you know 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:33.199 I've I've made I've made an album about fear and 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:39.000 shame and not to to liberate myself. You know it 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:44.040 sounds quite heavy on paper, but you know I've written 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:48.159 about these things not to beat myself up, but to 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:53.720 air them out. And when I when I first wrote Hideous, 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:59.199 it was such a fuck it moment of I was 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:03.240 at a point in my life life where I would 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:05.360 say most of the key people in my life knew 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:09.960 about my status, but some people didn't know. A lot 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:13.080 of people knew in a way of I told them 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:16.600 one time and then I'd put like a subliminal, like 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.680 invisible force field around it of like that's done. We've 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.280 talked about that. Now we don't talk about it again. 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:30.359 And me putting it in a song was quite a 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:35.480 drastic thing considering where I was in my life, because 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:41.120 it's much easier for me to be honest in songwriting 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:46.240 than it is in a conversation, because there is no 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:50.800 I don't have to be in the room when somebody 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:52.639 listens to this, I don't have to look at them 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.520 in the eye. There's no back and forth like Songwriting's 0:18:55.600 --> 0:19:00.560 just a conversation with myself. And when I decided to 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:04.000 put my HIV status in the song, you know it's 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.679 it's at the end of the song, because that's the 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:09.240 moment where you know I'd pretty much written a song. 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:13.080 I was like, should I do this? Should I do this? Okay, fine, yeah, 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:21.479 put checking it at the end. Rad gonesty, Mike, scept 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:30.359 me free if it makes me Idio been living with 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:45.119 the Javy since seven c Namma idiom and I played 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.240 the song to Jamie and the second person I played 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:51.200 it to was my mom. And my mom my mom 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:55.440 knows me, she knows me, and she was like, this 0:19:55.520 --> 0:20:02.320 is drastic, This is drastic, and how about some baby 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.200 steps first? How about you start having conversations And that's 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.360 just not what I wanted to do. And that's not 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:09.520 what I wanted to do. 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:11.840 Were you like, well, Mom, put it in a song, 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:13.680 which I don't want to have the conversation. 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:17.760 Yeah, let me have the drama. I don't know, but 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:21.720 I did start having these conversations with my nearest and 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:29.080 dearest and they were super uncomfortable to begin with, but 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:30.919 I started to have Like each one I had, it 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:34.840 became a little less heavy, and I started working my 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:38.520 way out of my like inner circle. I started meeting 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:44.040 new people, collaborators and sharing the music with them, and 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.160 then I started making a film where I was playing 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.080 Hideous in front of loads of people I didn't know, 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:55.639 and like my way of dealing with my status or 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.040 just like things I felt ashamed of in general, is 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:02.159 just like control. I know exact actually who I've told them, 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:08.160 what I've told and it was just like a really 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:12.119 stressful way to be And each one of these conversations 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:16.760 was a bit of letting go of control. And then 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:21.960 before I knew, I was speaking to journalists, and by 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:24.480 the time I released Hideous, it didn't feel like a 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:29.720 Catholic guarded secret. Sure I didn't have control over it anymore. 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:31.080 It was kind of out in the world. 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:33.160 Helps the reaction to it being. 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:41.000 It has been good, and it's been really good. I 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:47.680 have I've kind of avoided doing a deep dive, especially 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:54.320 into my messages on social media, not because I'm scared 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:58.879 of seeing anything negative, but more I think this is 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:03.120 like a really beautiful thing and I love it. But 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:07.080 you know, when you share something personal, it kind of 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:11.320 opens the door for somebody to share something personal back, 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:16.919 and I it makes me scared because I am not 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:22.439 necessarily equipped to deal. Like I'm a musician, I'm not 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:28.760 a trained healthcare professional and I don't want to pretend 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:34.639 to be one. But I love it, like meeting I've 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:36.639 played a few shows and meeting people outside of the 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:43.560 shows and has been amazing. But it does it does 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:47.960 make me. It can be overwhelming. 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:52.360 Yeah, Jimmy Summervill is on the track. Yeah, how does 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:54.560 that come about? Is it true that you send him 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:57.720 a message? Just an un solicited message, like how do 0:22:57.800 --> 0:22:59.800 you get how do you get to know Jimmy Summerville? 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:06.679 So I you know, I talk about like being like 0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:11.480 a new artist and things. Thankfully for the XX, like 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:15.119 a few doors are open and I was able to 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:18.000 get hold of like people's email addresses and phone numbers. 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:23.199 But I think like one thing that's been on my 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:25.880 agenda with this record was like I want to make 0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:28.239 some friends. Yeah, I want to make some friends, Like 0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:32.080 I love Ronny and I love Jamie, but being in 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:34.080 a band with my two best mates has given me 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:37.359 the perfect excuse, like excuse of I don't need to 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:38.080 talk to anybody? 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:40.199 Yes, are you when you get when you're at a 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:44.280 party together? Do you just stick with them? Historically? 0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:44.639 Would you? 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:47.760 Would you be like, I don't need to go over 0:23:47.840 --> 0:23:49.399 to that side of the room because we're here and 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:51.960 that's the same. That's that's me at a wedding. 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:56.800 Yeah, no, that that's that's me. I'm I am My 0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:58.800 friends make fun of me. Of Like, if I get 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:02.080 an invite to go somewhere, my first question would be 0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:05.600 who's going to be then, of like making sure it's 0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:08.120 people I know, because I don't want to be overwhelmed 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:11.520 by new people. But I was like, I need to 0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:17.280 make some friends. Like Ronny and Jamie are fantastic, but 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:24.200 they can't be my only two people. And I want 0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:28.479 to sit not only just like musical friends, but like 0:24:28.960 --> 0:24:34.639 queer musicians, especially like older that I keep saying, I 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:39.879 will not use that word more experienced musicians. And Jimmy 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:41.480 was kind of like top of my list? 0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:44.080 Were you a fat just a fan of his? 0:24:44.720 --> 0:24:47.639 I was a fan of his. You know, he's just 0:24:47.880 --> 0:24:52.200 a voice that's just always been around. And I think 0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:56.879 for most people that they know that voice, and I 0:24:56.960 --> 0:25:01.200 don't remember the first time I heard it, but then 0:25:01.359 --> 0:25:06.320 like growing up and really getting to know and appreciate 0:25:06.440 --> 0:25:12.960 everything he's done and everything he represents, not not not 0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:16.960 just around HIV and AIDS, but for queer people and 0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:19.040 even more just like people that just feel a bit 0:25:19.080 --> 0:25:21.960 removed and feel a bit other I see. I've always 0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:29.400 seen him as like a beacon, and my like reaching 0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:32.840 out to him was nothing more than like a fanboy 0:25:33.359 --> 0:25:37.639 of high mister Somerville. My name's Oliver, I'm in a band, 0:25:38.359 --> 0:25:44.160 huge fan. I didn't, and he messaged back, and did. 0:25:44.119 --> 0:25:46.080 You say to him in that first message, I'd like 0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:48.640