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Speaker 1: Welcome into Lounge presented by DraftKings. I'm Ryan Mink here

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Speaker 1: with Garrett Downing and we're thrilled to be joined by

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Speaker 1: PFF's head of content. Gordon McGuinness. Does great work at

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Speaker 1: Pro Football Focus and has been for a while doing

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Speaker 1: that great work. So thank you Gordon for joining us. Also,

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Speaker 1: Guinness one of our favorite beers. So I mean an

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Speaker 1: automatic slam dunk for you to come on the pod.

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Speaker 1: We really appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me. It's very fun

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Speaker 2: to be here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I want to get into combine talk and

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Speaker 1: your takeaways for the combine. Obviously it's a time when

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Speaker 1: he stocks it up and down. Who for you really

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Speaker 1: stood out and probably mostly raised their stock at the Combine.

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Speaker 2: I think the two biggest ones who I think have

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Speaker 2: potentially bottled themselves right into the top ten are armand Membou,

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Speaker 2: the offensive tackle from Missouri. I think for him it

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Speaker 2: was a kind of on two fronts. So the combination

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Speaker 2: of him having a tremendous workout, you know, running a

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Speaker 2: four point nine to one at well over three hundred pounds,

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Speaker 2: and that the forty yard dash he had where he

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Speaker 2: was making a whole bunch of noises. He powered his

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Speaker 2: way through there.

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Speaker 1: Yes, good, that really saw me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a great selling point for him. But

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Speaker 2: then the other thing that helps him is that a

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Speaker 2: lot of the guys who, because this is a weird

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Speaker 2: draft class, were by. There are several tackle guard tweiners

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Speaker 2: and Will Campbell, who I think if his arms were

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Speaker 2: a couple inches longer, would be one hundred percent the

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Speaker 2: top offensive tackle off the board. His arm length came

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Speaker 2: in like below the threshold that a lot of NFL

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Speaker 2: teams look for, So that's got a lot of people

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Speaker 2: thinking that he might have to kick inside the guard

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Speaker 2: at the next level. I personally would like to see

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Speaker 2: him get the opportunity to fail at tackle before he

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Speaker 2: moves inside the guard, but some NFL teams I think

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Speaker 2: that'll be you know, that'll be the case for him.

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Speaker 2: So that helps vault Membu all the way up to

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Speaker 2: be the top offensive tackle in the class. And there

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Speaker 2: on the opposite side of the ball, Schmar Stuart having

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Speaker 2: a tremendous one of the most impressive combines I think

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Speaker 2: anyone's ever had at that position, and he's a fascinating

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Speaker 2: player because a lot of the concerns with him are

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Speaker 2: about the production he had at Texas A and M.

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Speaker 2: You didn't have a season with more than two sacks

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Speaker 2: in a single season. All those things for us. He

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Speaker 2: was the fourth highest graded edge defender in the in

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Speaker 2: college football in this draft class against the run last year.

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Speaker 2: So I think that if you are one of the

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Speaker 2: people who wants to point to his role at Texas

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Speaker 2: A and M and how he was potentially limited by scheme,

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Speaker 2: that's probably what I would point to, and I would say,

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Speaker 2: look this guy. It's not apples to apples, but he

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Speaker 2: did prove that he can beat people one on one

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Speaker 2: in the running game, and he's a tremendous athlete. We

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Speaker 2: think he's a player who can go in the top ten.

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Speaker 3: Very interesting it was Shamar Stewart going into the week

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Speaker 3: in Indianapolis. A lot of the conversation was whether he

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Speaker 3: could be there for the Ravens at big number twenty

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Speaker 3: seven and at Daniel Jeremiah's Matt going into Indianapolis had

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Speaker 3: him as the Ravens pick at twenty seven. Is the

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Speaker 3: likelihood of him being there at the end of the

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Speaker 3: first round? Is that gone? We GISs that dream goodbye.

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Speaker 2: I think it's pretty slim just because of just how

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Speaker 2: good he was. One of our guys at PFF earlier

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Speaker 2: today I heard him talking about in terms of the

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Speaker 2: relative athletic scores, that there's a website that pushes those out.

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Speaker 2: He now has the best of any edge defender, and

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Speaker 2: the three guys who are right below him and wear

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Speaker 2: above him before he ran all went number one overall.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think he's going to go number one overall,

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Speaker 2: But the odds on him now making it all the

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Speaker 2: way to the late first round feel a lot slimmer.

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Speaker 2: I think the odds on him getting beyond kind of

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Speaker 2: the top fifteen, maybe even the top ten, I've slimmed

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Speaker 2: quite significantly.

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Speaker 1: I think your point about him about being a really

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Speaker 1: elite run defender gives him a higher floor to some teams.

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Speaker 1: You might be saying, all right, worst case scenario, we're

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Speaker 1: getting a great edge defender here, who even if he

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Speaker 1: doesn't have the sack production that we hope, like, okay,

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Speaker 1: we're going to get that, you know, like he's not

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Speaker 1: gonna just totally bomb, you know, and then the intangibles,

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Speaker 1: the athletic intangibles, gives him this high ceiling. Also, So

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Speaker 1: if you combine a high floor of the high ceiling.

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Speaker 1: That's a prospect that I think teams are going to

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Speaker 1: be willing to game one even though the combine performance

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Speaker 1: for me doesn't change the fact that the biggest red

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Speaker 1: flag with him, right, that doesn't change the production conversation.

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Speaker 2: No, it definitely doesn't. And then the other thing I

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Speaker 2: would point to is, so we do grading and track

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Speaker 2: and of things. At the Senior Bowl, he had probably

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Speaker 2: the best week of anyone at the Senior Bowl, and

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Speaker 2: he did win one on one regularly. I think he

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Speaker 2: had like a fifty percent pass rush win rate at

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Speaker 2: the Senior Bowl. But even then, that's like it's in

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Speaker 2: a practice setting, you know, it's not the same things

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Speaker 2: as in a game set. And so scouts are going

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Speaker 2: to have to be comfortable with the fact, especially if

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Speaker 2: you're drafting in the top ten. If you're drafting guy

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Speaker 2: in the top ten, you expect him to be a

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Speaker 2: guy who gets after the quarterback regularly, and scout's going

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Speaker 2: to have to be comfortable with their belief that he

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Speaker 2: can develop as a pass rusher in the NFL.

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Speaker 3: So I want to get your perspective just big picture

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Speaker 3: wise on this draft and Adam Schefter made the point

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Speaker 3: last week at the Combine and looking at the draft

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Speaker 3: class that he's hearing from NFL teams, the difference in

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Speaker 3: the player that you're going to get at ten is

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Speaker 3: really not that different than the player you could get

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Speaker 3: at thirty five, And so that could affect the way

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Speaker 3: the teams approached the draft and looking at the grades

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Speaker 3: from your standpoint, when you at PFF are looking at

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Speaker 3: things obviously very analytically, is that the way that you

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Speaker 3: see it as well, and how could that affect this draft?

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Speaker 2: I think that's absolutely correct, And the way I would

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Speaker 2: look at it is that there's probably two true kind

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Speaker 2: of blue chet players in this class in Abdull Carter

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Speaker 2: and Travis Hunter. And I think part of the reason

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Speaker 2: why the draft interest took a little bit of time

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Speaker 2: to get going this year is because the quarterbacks aren't

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Speaker 2: the most exciting in this class. I think people aren't

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Speaker 2: sure how good Cam Wore is going to be. There's

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Speaker 2: question marks about Sheer Sanders, and then who the third

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Speaker 2: quarterback is a huge, big question mark for everyone. Similar

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Speaker 2: with wide receivers, right, it's not like we have a

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Speaker 2: year like we had last year where there's like a

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Speaker 2: good number of guys who will hear their names called

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Speaker 2: in the top fifteen at that position. But as we've

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Speaker 2: got through towards the past, the Senior Bowl and through

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Speaker 2: the Combine and now I think a lot of people

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Speaker 2: are realizing that they're still an awful lot of very

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Speaker 2: good players in this draft. They're just maybe not the

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Speaker 2: kind of elite talents that people have been used to

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Speaker 2: at the top of the draft. And where I think

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Speaker 2: that helps a team like the Ravens is picking late

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Speaker 2: in the first round. I think Adam Schefter is absolutely correct,

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Speaker 2: like the window of guys who could start hearing their

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Speaker 2: name called probably as early as twelve or thirteenth. Overall,

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Speaker 2: right the way through to probably the mid second round

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Speaker 2: are all relatively interchangeable, I think.

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Speaker 3: So. I think when I look at it, like one

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Speaker 3: thing that the Ravens have a great track record of

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Speaker 3: doing to this point, and it's I feel like it's

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Speaker 3: rinse and repeat in a lot of ways every year

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Speaker 3: where the Ravens end up taking somebody in the first round,

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Speaker 3: and then like the commentary from NFL Network or from

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Speaker 3: ESPN is like, man, how did the lee let this

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Speaker 3: guy follow to the Ravens. Of course, the Ravens geting

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Speaker 3: Nate Wiggins, who might be the best cover corner in

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Speaker 3: the draft at the end of the first round, and

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Speaker 3: you could go through, how did Kyle Hamilton follow to

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Speaker 3: the Ravens at number fourteen? So as you look at it,

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Speaker 3: who is it likely that we have? Who are we

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Speaker 3: having that conversation about on draft night that I can't

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Speaker 3: believe this player fell to the Ravens at number twenty seven.

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Speaker 2: I think the media are already getting ahead of this

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Speaker 2: because pretty much, pretty much pretty much every mock draft

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Speaker 2: I've seen since the combine has Malachi Starks fallen to

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Speaker 2: the Ravens, and it feels like that's the floor we're by.

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Speaker 2: You know, you ran a four point five and Nikim Manwirry,

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Speaker 2: the South Carolina safety, had a far more impressive combine

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Speaker 2: from that perspective, but I feel like Ravens of the

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Speaker 2: type of team who are going to look at the

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Speaker 2: tape from Alachi Starks over the past three years and

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Speaker 2: also like four point five is not a bad time

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Speaker 2: for a safety. You know that it's perfectly acceptable there,

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Speaker 2: and then you look at what he did last year.

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Speaker 2: He spent some time in the slot and all those

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Speaker 2: things as well. I just feel like he is the

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Speaker 2: type of player that if he does fall, because people

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Speaker 2: weren't that impressed with his combine, I think the Ravens

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Speaker 2: will be delighted to see him there at the end

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Speaker 2: of the first round.

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Speaker 1: And why do you feel that way, Because even going

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Speaker 1: into the combine, Garrett and I were talking about we

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Speaker 1: both are kind of hot on the safeties and we're like,

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Speaker 1: who would you prefer, emn Worry or Starks, And I'm

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Speaker 1: curious to get your perspective on why Youth. It sounds

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Speaker 1: like you think Starks is a better fit.

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Speaker 2: I think so. I think, probably to go back to

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Speaker 2: something you said earlier around floors and ceilings, I think

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Speaker 2: him and Worry probably almost definitely has the higher ceiling

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Speaker 2: because he's such a good athlete. It's almost like taking

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Speaker 2: an athlete of Kyle Hamilton's size and like super charging

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Speaker 2: the athleticism. And he himself had like a at the

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Speaker 2: podium about how like it would be over for the

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Speaker 2: league if they had the two of those guys in

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Speaker 2: the same second. Malachi Starks was just a guy who

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Speaker 2: just played good football for a good number of years

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Speaker 2: at a big school in Georgia and has the versatility

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Speaker 2: that he can help out in the slot as well

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Speaker 2: as as well as those things. So it's not I

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Speaker 2: guess it's not really an either or. I think it's

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Speaker 2: just that there's a there's a floor of a good

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Speaker 2: player at safety in Malachi Starks that I think the

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Speaker 2: Ravens would be pretty happy with at the end of

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Speaker 2: the first round.

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Speaker 1: I ask you one more question about Starks is I've

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Speaker 1: heard so far a knock on him is, oh, he

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Speaker 1: didn't make a lot of plays, And I'm just trying

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Speaker 1: to marry that with I mean, I know this past

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Speaker 1: season he only had one interception, but he had six

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Speaker 1: picks over his three years at Georgia, and when I'm

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Speaker 1: watching some of the highlights, I mean, these are ridiculous interceptions.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm just curious, like, do you view him

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Speaker 1: in the Gift PFF grades and coverage, Like is he

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Speaker 1: legit playmaking kind of free safety which will would compliment

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Speaker 1: Kyle Hamilton.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think he is. And I think sometimes when

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Speaker 2: you see a guy have low interception numbers, it's because

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Speaker 2: offenses avoid him in coverage and they try and do

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Speaker 2: those things. But we've seen him make some tremendous plays.

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Speaker 2: I think there was an interception against Oregon maybe last

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Speaker 2: season that's just like shows tremendous range from the free

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Speaker 2: safety possession where he tracks the ball down. So either

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Speaker 2: it was either an interception or it was a pass breakup,

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Speaker 2: but there was a play where he just showed tremendous

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Speaker 2: range there, and I think he absolutely has the capability

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Speaker 2: if he was to go into the Ravens secondary, he

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Speaker 2: wouldn't be the first player that you know, teams are

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Speaker 2: looking to avoid right away, so that would probably increase

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Speaker 2: his potential to make some plays.

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Speaker 3: So I want to go back to pass rusher. We

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Speaker 3: talked about Shamar Stewart, who's probably gonna be gone, But

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Speaker 3: are there players in that mix at the end of

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Speaker 3: the first round who could be there for the Ravens

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Speaker 3: who you think would make sense?

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Speaker 2: I think so. I think the pass rushers and the

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Speaker 2: edge of defenders in this class. To go back to

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Speaker 2: the thing we said earlier about the caliber of this

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Speaker 2: draft class, there's over twenty edge defenders in this draft

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Speaker 2: class who I look at and I'm like, I can

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Speaker 2: see a path to a pretty successful NFL career for

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Speaker 2: those guys. Feels like a really, really deep class the

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Speaker 2: two guys who I think are very much in play

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Speaker 2: for the Ravens at the end of the first round.

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Speaker 2: Nick Gorton from Texas A and M was more productive

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Speaker 2: as a pass rusher than Schmar Stewart and can play

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Speaker 2: with his hand in the ground but also standing up.

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Speaker 2: And Donovan Israaku, the guy from Boston College. Now he

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Speaker 2: might have played himself out of that range with a

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Speaker 2: really impressive combine. He's just a guy who is really

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Speaker 2: quick off the edge and has that kind of quick

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Speaker 2: twitch that would potentially give the Ravens an elite pass

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Speaker 2: rusher there. And for me, this is a draft class

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Speaker 2: where by there's an opportunity for the Ravens to potentially

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Speaker 2: double dip at the position, and we've seen them do

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Speaker 2: that over the past few years, whereby they take two

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Speaker 2: guys at the same position in the first four rounds,

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Speaker 2: and I think this is a class that sets up there.

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Speaker 2: And you know, when you look at edge defender for

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Speaker 2: the Ravens, it's not like they don't have good players there.

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Speaker 2: Both Kyle van and I and a Daffi alway have

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Speaker 2: performed well for them, but they have lacked that kind

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Speaker 2: of true difference maker off the edge since the trerell

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Speaker 2: Sugs days, and I think if you look at what

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Speaker 2: they did that wide receiver were by the invested first

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Speaker 2: ro Impeck over a couple of years, and they kept going

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Speaker 2: back to the well till they really hit on Zay

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Speaker 2: Flowers and then Rashaan Bateman's breakout. This year, I think

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Speaker 2: there's an opportunity there for them to take a couple

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Speaker 2: of swings at the edge this year to try and

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Speaker 2: find a difference maker in that defense.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting because when you look at it and you

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Speaker 3: say there could be twenty really good players at that position,

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Speaker 3: my head goes to Ravens value. They put a premium

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Speaker 3: on value. There's some other needs, of course that they

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Speaker 3: would like to address. Offensive lines up in the air,

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Speaker 3: depending on what happens with Ronnie Stanley, but there's always

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Speaker 3: other needs you would like to address. We just spent

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Speaker 3: time talking about safety there like twenty really good pass rushers.

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Speaker 3: My head says, like, just wait and take one of

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Speaker 3: the second of the third round and then get a

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Speaker 3: really good player. What do you make of that option

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Speaker 3: and that approach and who could be guys if they

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Speaker 3: end up waiting.

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Speaker 2: It's definitely possible and I think as well, when you

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Speaker 2: talk about the other needs, it's hard to find a

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Speaker 2: starting left tackle in the third round of the NFL draft.

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Speaker 2: So I think if the Ravens are looking to have

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Speaker 2: to find the starting left tackle in the draft, it's

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Speaker 2: probably a guy like Josh Connorley from Moregan at the

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Speaker 2: end of the first round, like he's the guy who'll

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Speaker 2: probably be in that range if you're then thinking about

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Speaker 2: edge defenders further on in the draft. The guy I

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Speaker 2: really like is David Walker from Arkansas State. Was dominant

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Speaker 2: at the FCS level, had a great Senior Bowl, and

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Speaker 2: he's not doesn't have the longest arms in the world.

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Speaker 2: And the issue for him as a projection to the

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Speaker 2: NFL is obviously the level of talent that he went

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Speaker 2: up against, but was one of the highest grade pass rushers,

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Speaker 2: one of the highest grade run defenders in the FCS

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Speaker 2: last year. And I went through and looked at his

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Speaker 2: tape in the couple of games he had over the

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Speaker 2: last couple of years against FBS schools, and there were

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Speaker 2: schools in the Power four I think it was Oklahoma

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Speaker 2: and Missouri, possibly Oklahoma State, and he didn't have a

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Speaker 2: lot of bad plays on tape in those games. So

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Speaker 2: he's a guy who I think, despite the fact that

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Speaker 2: he went to a small school, I could see him

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Speaker 2: being the type of player who goes in the third

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Speaker 2: or fourth round and winds up having an NFL career

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Speaker 2: whereby he develops into a bit of a star.

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Speaker 1: All Right, Gordon, hearing me on this one, because this

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Speaker 1: is a theory of mine. Jehad Campbell. Okay, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about linebackers here. He seems like he could be one

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Speaker 1: of those guys where all right, this is a premiere

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Speaker 1: talent playing at a position that's not a premium inside

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Speaker 1: linebacker position, and he just falls down the board. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Ravens have Roquan Smith, and I think they like

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Speaker 1: Trent and Simpson and the potential that he has. But like,

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Speaker 1: is he an example of a player that could just

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Speaker 1: be too good to pass up at twenty seven?

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Speaker 2: I think so. And I think you can even map

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Speaker 2: out where it makes sense from a like a salary

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Speaker 2: cap perspective, in the sense that if you get him

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Speaker 2: and he is a top inside linebacker, you pair him

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Speaker 2: with Rokwan Smith over the course of JA had Campbell's

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Speaker 2: rookie contract, you could effectively have similar to what San

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Speaker 2: Francisco had when they had Fred Warner and Drake Greenlaw

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Speaker 2: in those types of guys, and you don't have to

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Speaker 2: pay JA had Campbell if he is that good for

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Speaker 2: three four years, so you get the opportunity there to

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Speaker 2: be creative with the salary cap. The only potential knock

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Speaker 2: on JA Had Campbell going to the Ravens is that

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Speaker 2: I think he is probably a perfect fit for the

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Speaker 2: Ravens former defensive coordinator in Seattle and they tried to

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Speaker 2: find a couple of different linebackers. I feel like Mike

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Speaker 2: McDonald would love that type of linebacker who he can

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Speaker 2: use as a blitzer and he can use in coverage

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Speaker 2: and all those things as well.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that he could play on the edge,

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Speaker 1: because I was wondering, you know, on early downs, could

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Speaker 1: Jahad Campbell potentially be an edge guy? But you know,

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Speaker 1: you want to keep a dafe on the field and

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Speaker 1: you want to let Calvin Nou rush the passer. And

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Speaker 1: then in passing situations, all right, Jahide comes inside, he's

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Speaker 1: a blitzer and you have an ultra pass rusher kind

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Speaker 1: of defense.

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Speaker 2: I do find it interesting that that hasn't been mentioned

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Speaker 2: as much for him, as it has for a guy

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Speaker 2: like Jalen Walker at Georgia, who similar type of player

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Speaker 2: in the sense of good pass rusher. Walker's definitely more

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Speaker 2: of a tweener between a linebacker and an edge defender.

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen much of Jahan Campbell as an edge defender,

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Speaker 2: but given how good he an as an athlete, like

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Speaker 2: if he arrived in Baltimore, I would definitely be open

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Speaker 2: to the idea of seeing what he can do off

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Speaker 2: the edge as well.

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Speaker 3: So his takeaway from me in last year's draft was like,

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Speaker 3: don't over don't outthink the room. And we were going

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Speaker 3: into last year's draft and it didn't really seem like

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Speaker 3: the Ravens had a huge need at corner. They had

356
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Speaker 3: other needs that we spent a lot of time talking about.

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Speaker 3: Like it was draft night the Ravens drafted Nate Wiggins,

358
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Speaker 3: who is one of the best corners in the draft,

359
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Speaker 3: and like, I don't know that we mentioned him at

360
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Speaker 3: all the whole process, Like we didn't talk about him,

361
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,159
Speaker 3: and you're like, what did we miss here?

362
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Speaker 1: And well, we thought he wasn't gonna make it. We

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Speaker 1: thought he wasn't gonna get past Philly.

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Speaker 3: We can we can make that judge. We can have

365
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Speaker 3: an excuse, We can use that excuse. But like we

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Speaker 3: just talked about a lot of other guys who went

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Speaker 3: well before the Ravens were on the clock, and so

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Speaker 3: so it's like, what we what did we miss there?

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Speaker 3: And like my takeaway was, if there's a great Corner

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Speaker 3: who's available, like the Ravens would absolutely take that guy

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Speaker 3: in the first round. And you look at it this

372
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Speaker 3: year and it's like Corner is still just as big

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Speaker 3: of a need as it was a year ago. When

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Speaker 3: you consider the fact that you know, Wild Humphrey has

375
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Speaker 3: got another year in his contract, Brandon Stevens is a

376
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Speaker 3: free agent. Of course, you have your two starters and

377
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Speaker 3: Marlin and Nate Wiggins, but you need to have at

378
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Speaker 3: least three really good corners. So long way of saying,

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Speaker 3: I would not be shocked at all this year if

380
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Speaker 3: the Ravens go cornerback in the first round. A guy

381
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Speaker 3: that I really like going into the combine and I

382
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Speaker 3: wonder if he would be in the mix. This guy

383
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,199
Speaker 3: that reminds me of of Nate Wings a little bit,

384
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Speaker 3: and that's Maxwell Harson out of Kentucky who ran a

385
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Speaker 3: blazing time in the forty, but who could be options

386
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Speaker 3: in your mind in the first round At cornerback.

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Speaker 2: I definitely think cornerback's an option, especially if Brandon Stevens

388
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Speaker 2: doesn't come back. And it also depends I guess what

389
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Speaker 2: the coaching staff you TJ. Tample long term? Right? Do

390
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,760
Speaker 2: they think he's a cornerback or a safety cornerback in college?

391
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,800
Speaker 2: But I think he played more safety last year or

392
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,720
Speaker 2: in preseason. The guys who I think again, it's similar

393
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Speaker 2: to the guy you mentioned, Maxwell Hairston, but there's other

394
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,760
Speaker 2: guys who could be available in that range. Chevron Ravel

395
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,080
Speaker 2: from easth Carolina, big tall guy who was really athletic

396
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,119
Speaker 2: when he played there, dealt with an injury this past season.

397
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,280
Speaker 2: And you've got guys like Jda Barrett Barron from Texas

398
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,359
Speaker 2: who potentially has played himself out of that spot by

399
00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,320
Speaker 2: having a really nice combine. But there's an awful lot

400
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Speaker 2: of players in this class who we're going to talk

401
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 2: about having really good combines, who so many of the

402
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,520
Speaker 2: guys had good combines that actually not all of them

403
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Speaker 2: can sneak their way into the top fifteen now, So

404
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,720
Speaker 2: he's one of those guys who fits in there. The

405
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,240
Speaker 2: guy who I think could be interesting as someone who

406
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 2: were maybe not thinking about just now, but potentially could

407
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 2: be there when the Ravens come on the clocks. Will

408
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 2: Johnson from Michigan, Now, I would have never thought. This

409
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,440
Speaker 2: does feel like there isn't the same hype on him

410
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,639
Speaker 2: that there was. It's probably a little bit similar to

411
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Speaker 2: what the Nate Wiggins conversation was like. I remember him

412
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Speaker 2: being a top ten pick throughout most of last season,

413
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Speaker 2: and then the closer and closer we got to the draft,

414
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Speaker 2: all of a sudden he was dropping in those the

415
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 2: ranges in the twenties. Where I think he could be

416
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,119
Speaker 2: a great fit for the Ravens is that he very

417
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,960
Speaker 2: much as a playmaker. He gambles and almost a little

418
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,400
Speaker 2: bit like what the Ravens had when Marcus Peters was there,

419
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,480
Speaker 2: and a guy who will gamble and make a play

420
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,240
Speaker 2: on the ball and try and take it the other way.

421
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 1: And he dealt with a toe injury and didn't work

422
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Speaker 1: out at the combine. So he's one of those guys

423
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Speaker 1: where okay, maybe the buzz not working at the combine

424
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Speaker 1: just and especially like you're saying, Gordon, these other guy

425
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Speaker 1: cornerbacks having really good performances maybe he slides a little bit.

426
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Speaker 1: Twenty seven feels that'd be a heck of a slide

427
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 1: for a player that talented, But hey, I wouldn't mind

428
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Speaker 1: seeing it. Wouldn't mind seeing it. Is are there any

429
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 1: corners you know? I've heard Trey Amos as a guy,

430
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Speaker 1: and it seems like there's some good options there early

431
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 1: second round. Are who are some good second or third

432
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: round corners that you feel like could fit Baltimore's scheme.

433
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Speaker 2: I think that's where guys like Darryn Porter, the guy

434
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Speaker 2: from Iowa State who ran a really fast forty. He's

435
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Speaker 2: like six foot two as well, so he's a nice

436
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,920
Speaker 2: tall guy. And then similarly a guy who I've seen

437
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 2: this guy mock to them in the first round a

438
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 2: good few times, but also have seen him drop right

439
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,360
Speaker 2: out the first round. But Florida states as Area Thomas,

440
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 2: who is young, he's only going to be I don't

441
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 2: think he's even twenty one by the time the draft

442
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,199
Speaker 2: comes round, tall over six foot, good coverage skills over

443
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 2: the past couple of seasons. So this is similar to

444
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 2: the edge defender class. This is there is a good

445
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,119
Speaker 2: group of guys that you could get in the second,

446
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 2: third round of this class who I think could potentially

447
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 2: develop into into starters. And those are the two names

448
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 2: that jump to mind.

449
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 3: I want to mention go back to a guy that

450
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 3: you mentioned in the cornerback conversation in the first round

451
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 3: is Schevon Revel out of East Carolina, and I've seen

452
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 3: him come up on a handful of occasions as a

453
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 3: potential option for the Ravens in the first round, and

454
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 3: I look at the size and it seems like he

455
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,400
Speaker 3: would be a kind of a prototype of what NFL

456
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 3: teams in particular the Ravens are looking for. But then

457
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 3: on the flip side, I'm like, smaller school he I

458
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 3: think he was in college for six years with the

459
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 3: COVID year in there, and so he's like a little

460
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 3: bit older. I think it'll be twenty three when the

461
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 3: draft happens, so a little bit older. And so I'm like,

462
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 3: that doesn't seem to fit what the Ravens have done

463
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 3: where they've gone big program younger players under Eric Tacosta.

464
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 3: What's your scouting report on Revel and whether he could

465
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:51,360
Speaker 3: be a good fit.

466
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 2: I think he absolutely could be a good fit. It's

467
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 2: probably the reason why I think there's a good chance

468
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 2: he hasn't in the pick is kind of similar to

469
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 2: what you mentioned, and I think similar on the offense

470
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 2: of line with the guy like Grey's Abel, who I

471
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 2: think good player but doesn't necessarily fit, but Revel I

472
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 2: think big, physical, really really good in coverage for US,

473
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 2: like eighty plus PFF coverage grades over the past two seasons.

474
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,199
Speaker 2: This season the injury limited him there, but he is

475
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 2: the type of player that maybe he's not the first

476
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 2: round pick for the Ravens because again, he's not a

477
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 2: lock to go in the first round. He's the type

478
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 2: of player who potentially he's there in the second round

479
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 2: and they can go and find a potential starting cornerback

480
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 2: or future starting cornerback in the second round with him.

481
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: All right, So Gordon, I'm gonna give you three defensive

482
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 1: linemen here, give me your flavor. Okay, who do you like?

483
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: Derek Harmon, Darius Alexander, and Walter Nolan are Who's the

484
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: best fit for the Ravens.

485
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 2: For me, it would be Derek Carmon. I think Derek

486
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 2: Harmon is a tremendous football player. He's the twenty second

487
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 2: ranked player on our Big Board, just now coming off

488
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 2: his best season in college football. But a guy who

489
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 2: like got a seventeen point six percent pass rush win

490
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 2: rate last year, just dominant as a pass rusher. He's

491
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 2: not bad against the run either, He's very good against

492
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 2: the run. But a tremendous athlete as well. Now the

493
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 2: other two guys as well. I don't think there's anything

494
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 2: wrong with those guys. But if I was, if I

495
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 2: was picking a guy that the Ravens could could add

496
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 2: to that defensive line, who could add some disruption up front,

497
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 2: Derek Harmon's the guy for me.

498
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 3: And you do you think that a pass rusher or

499
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 3: not pass rusher? But you were at the combine. I

500
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 3: was at the combine. A lot of talk at the

501
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 3: combine about, hey, the Eagles just won the Super Bowl

502
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 3: with this great defensive front, defensive line, defensive line, defensive line.

503
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 3: Everybody needs to invest that. Just go do what the

504
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 3: Eagles did. And it's that simple. Do you think that

505
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 3: because of that and in your conversations with teams and

506
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 3: looking at your analysis, that there could be more of

507
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 3: a priority put on defensive player defensive line front players

508
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 3: and those guys could jump up the board.

509
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 2: I definitely think it's possible. Like it as a copycat league,

510
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 2: and you know, you think about the fact that what

511
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 2: the Eagles were able to do to the Chiefs offense

512
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 2: by being so good across the defensive line, especially in

513
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 2: the interior, that does give teams a reason to think, Okay,

514
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 2: that's the best opportunity we have to to go and

515
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 2: beat the Chiefs or to be a dominant team. The

516
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 2: other part though, that I think the other reason why

517
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 2: it's going to be a heavy, heavy defensive line draft

518
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 2: is just that it is such a good group of

519
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 2: players at those positions. You know, like last year, I

520
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 2: think was an offensive line class where we saw a

521
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 2: huge number go in the first round. This year it's

522
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: kind of the reverse, whereby it's the defensive lineman getting there,

523
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 2: getting their revenge and their bounce back there. The Eagles

524
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 2: thing is, you know, it's never as simple as that.

525
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 2: They obviously get a lot of other things that they have.

526
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 2: They were able to get tremendous production out of their

527
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 2: two rookie cornerbacks last year. You know, they got Jail

528
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: and Hurts given the best two performances of the season

529
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 2: in the two most important games. But it is a league.

530
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 2: It you do went and losing the trenches and if

531
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 2: you can go and create that disruption and the Eagle's

532
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 2: dead in that and that Super Bowl was dominance upfront.

533
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 3: So well for the flip side of it, too, is

534
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 3: just built up a great offensive line. And so the Ravens,

535
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 3: as we already mentioned earlier, is Ronnie Stanley could get resigned.

536
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 3: They Ravens talked about there's optimism around getting a long

537
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 3: term deal done with him, and so if they keep

538
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 3: him at left tackled, then that answers a big question

539
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 3: this offseason. And then you only have one spot along

540
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 3: that offensive line that you potentially need to replace with

541
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 3: Matt Pat McCarey. Lee's in free agency. So but if

542
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 3: they're looking for offensive linemen in the draft, Simmons out

543
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 3: of a highest state has been mentioned as a possible option.

544
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,959
Speaker 3: He's coming off the knee injury, and it sounded like

545
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 3: from what I heard of the combine he's talking about

546
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 3: being ready and at his pro day in April, which

547
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 3: seemed earlier than a lot of people expected. What do

548
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 3: you make of him specifically as a potential option for

549
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 3: the Ravens.

550
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: I'm interested in Kelvin Banks junior too, and connerly Connery junior.

551
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: Who you brought up, So, yeah, which guys which, Yeah,

552
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: of course you asked about the Ohio say guy oh Buck,

553
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: guy over here, but guy Bill over here. I'm curious

554
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: of those three guys, which one fits the Ravens the best.

555
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna disappoint you a little bit. Ryan, I

556
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 2: think George Simmons would, especially if they if they definitely

557
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 2: need a tackle, right if Ronnie Stanley isn't back. Simmons

558
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 2: had the best pressure rate among offensive tackles in this

559
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 2: draft class, like the lowest pressure rate. Admittedly it was

560
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 2: on a smaller sample size before that injury. The injury, though,

561
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 2: appears to have checked out, like he himself was saying,

562
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 2: you know, I'm gonna be ready to do those things,

563
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 2: and normally if that's not true, relatively soon after that

564
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: you hear people saying, yeah, like he's saying he's ready,

565
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: but we're not really too sure about that. There wasn't

566
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 2: much of that in Indianapolis. There wasn't any real suggestion.

567
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 2: I do think though, again, if they need a left tackle,

568
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 2: I think Josh Connell is the next best option. Still

569
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,479
Speaker 2: a good player. It earned a seventy eight point three

570
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 2: PFF grade for US last year. Kevin back to junior,

571
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 2: probably the best season of all the guys last year.

572
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 2: The issue with him is similar to Will Campbell, whereby

573
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 2: is he definitely going to be a tackle in the

574
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 2: NFL and there is a little bit of debate over

575
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 2: whether or not he might actually be best if he

576
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 2: kicks inside. So the tough thing for the Ravens if

577
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 2: they absolutely need a left tackle or they need an

578
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 2: offensive tackle in this draft, is that they're potentially not

579
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 2: going to be able to take one of those tweener

580
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: guys who Hey, if it doesn't work at tackle, we're

581
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 2: just going to kick you inside the guard.

582
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: All right, last question for me, Gordon, Since you know

583
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: the Ravens well, you know that we can't have a

584
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: draft conversation without talking about wide receiver. Okay, so who

585
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: are some wide receivers? Maybe mid round guys. That's where

586
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 1: I could see them taking on, preferably some return experience.

587
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: Like what wide receivers do you think could be on

588
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: the Ravens radar?

589
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 2: I think it's fascinating because it's like one of the

590
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 2: things I hear people say all the time is like

591
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 2: styles win prize fights, and what the Ravens lack at

592
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: the wide receiver position is like a bit more of

593
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 2: a bigger body. If they could get a guy like

594
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 2: Jaden Higgins from Iowa State in the second round, potentially

595
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 2: the third round, depending on where his draft stock winds

596
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 2: up being he's like a six foot four guy who

597
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 2: has plenty of speed, can go and be that kind

598
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 2: of contested catch receiver for Lamar Jackson. Also, I think

599
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 2: it's fascinating to think about a guy like Tess Johnson

600
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 2: Morgan who was what one hundred and fifty four pounds

601
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: at the combine in Indianapolis. He only ran a four

602
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 2: or five five or four five one I think it was,

603
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 2: but he has the short area of quickness and really

604
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 2: impressed at the Senior Bowl. So especially if you're thinking

605
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: about a guy who maybe is a punt returner first,

606
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 2: if he is going to fall down into Day three

607
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: potentially because he's going to be such a size outlier,

608
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 2: like he is one percentile first percent title in terms

609
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 2: of size when it comes to wag He's the type

610
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 2: of guy who could be there and he was a

611
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 2: really really good college receiver. Now he's the size thing

612
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: is a big deal, and it's why you're not going

613
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 2: to hear his name called early in the draft because

614
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: you are a gambling on a player who historically is

615
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 2: not going to succeed in the NFL. But the quality

616
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 2: is definitely there.

617
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 3: The other thing I want to get your take on this,

618
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 3: You've I've seen you on Twitter mentioned this and is

619
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 3: running back and for the Ravens. John Harwall said at

620
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 3: the podium at the combine, like, hey, we could take

621
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 3: a running back. And then I talked with him at

622
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 3: the Combine as well, and in the interview I did

623
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 3: with him, he pointed out, people don't think we need

624
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 3: a running back. We could take a running back. It's

625
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 3: a good running back draft. You've even talked about the

626
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 3: possibility of a first round running back, which I would

627
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 3: be very surprised at the way Ravens went that route.

628
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: Orton going out on the limb, I like it hot

629
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: take Gordon, all right.

630
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 3: But what do you think of the possibility of the

631
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 3: Ravens taking a running back as early as round one?

632
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 2: It's really bad when it's a someone from PFF saying

633
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 2: that you should take a running back in the first round.

634
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: But I feel like I feel like the viewing running

635
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: backs has changed a little bit, and my personal opinion

636
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 2: on them. Now, you come out of this past season

637
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: and Saquon Barkley and Derek Henry had mendish years, and

638
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 2: I think the takeaway for some people is, oh, like

639
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: running backs are back in vogue, spend high draft picks

640
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 2: on running backs, pay running backs. My take is more

641
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 2: that they are a force multiplier for offenses. And I

642
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 2: think what you saw sae Quon Barkley and Derek Henry

643
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: do was they went into either a system where there

644
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: was a great offensive line like Philadelphia or a great

645
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: running scheme in Baltimore by Lamar Jackson just open things

646
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 2: up for you and that supercharged the offense a little

647
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 2: bit for the Ravens. So my take on why a

648
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 2: running back now first round I think would still be

649
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: a surprise even to me. But where I could see

650
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: it being something that they want to address early is

651
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 2: they have just seen how good this offense can be

652
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: when you pay Lamar Jackson with an elite running back

653
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 2: in Derreck Henry. Derek Henry, I think is good breaks

654
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: the mold of running backs. For why you expect his

655
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 2: career to take a massive dive as he gets a

656
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: little bit older, because he seems to keep himself in

657
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: tremendous condition, and you know it was phenomenal this past season.

658
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: But it wouldn't surprise me to see them think about,

659
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: like we want to go in and pair another great

660
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: running back, should Derek Henry not be here in a

661
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 2: couple of years time, and go and find a guy

662
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 2: that can pair with Lamar Jackson.

663
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 3: In that sense, it'd be an interesting route to go,

664
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 3: no doubt about that. I mean, I think they'll take one.

665
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 3: Like they're supposed to have eleven picks as the expectation,

666
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 3: so I think you're running back at some point. The

667
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 3: question is how high? Of course, last last one for

668
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 3: me is one of my favorite things that you guys

669
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 3: do a profobile focus. You have the draft simulator so

670
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 3: you can go through you and you make make all

671
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 3: your mock draft picks and it gives you a little

672
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 3: gray next to it. You can pare it. You feel

673
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 3: good if you get an A in your in your draft.

674
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 3: So like, if you're doing your mock draft for the Ravens,

675
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 3: what is the ideal scenario, like what how does this

676
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 3: thing play out for the Ravens that you Gordon would

677
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 3: give the Ravens an A For me.

678
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: Edge one of the edge defenders falling right. It's the

679
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: two guys I mentioned earlier, Nick Gorton and Donovan Azoraku

680
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 2: from Boston College. When I look into one of the

681
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: things you can do in the mockcraft simulators, you can

682
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: actually look into who other people are selecting, like who

683
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: most people select for the Ravens, And it was heading

684
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: into this past week our Man Membou and Shamar Stuart,

685
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: who probably are not going to be there at twenty

686
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 2: seven now, but then at that point some of the

687
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: other edge defenders come in. Nick Gorton is the next

688
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,959
Speaker 2: edge defender up there, So for me it would be

689
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 2: going edge defender in the first round as long as

690
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: one of those guys get there.

691
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: Gordon, I love the PFF tools, But see Garrett, he's

692
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: the guy who just tries to duke the system to

693
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: get straight a's on your system. So he's like he's

694
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: taking Malachi Starks in the third It's like, oh a plus,

695
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: great draft Garrett. So that's the only thing is you

696
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: gotta find some way to like humble people like Garrett

697
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: and make sure they don't get straight a's.

698
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's the the PFF simulator does a good

699
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 3: job of not allowing me to do that because those

700
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 3: guys are typically gone. It's pretty accurate.

701
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I'm just saying this guy tries to

702
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: cheat the system, so you gotta fight away, all right. Well,

703
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: thank you for joining us, Gordon. This is really a

704
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: pleasure and awesome insights. So thank you so much. And

705
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,479
Speaker 1: all of our listeners out there. Make sure you get

706
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: a Pro Football Focus and check out all their draft covers.

707
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: They do a great job over there. Thanks so much, Gordon.

708
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 3: Thanks guys, you're listening to the Lounge podcast. We're coming

709
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 3: to you from the Sea Geek Studio. We also want

710
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 3: to mention our partners with Draft King sports Book. There

711
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 3: an official sports betting partner of the Baltimore Ravens Draft

712
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 3: King Sportsbook, The Crown is yours. So shout out to

713
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 3: Gordon for joining us. Good to talk with him. He's

714
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 3: been covering the Ravens in the NFL for a long

715
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 3: time and Pro Football Focus does a great job of

716
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 3: breaking everything down and just giving some good analytical insight

717
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 3: into the draft. So appreciate that perspective from him. So

718
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 3: after hearing from him, how much are you tinkering? How

719
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 3: much are you already coming off your early indications of

720
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 3: which direction the Ravens could go.

721
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: No disrespect to Gordon, but I am moving it in.

722
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 3: You're sticking to your guns, sticking to it. Well, you're early.

723
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 3: Just mentioned you should tell the listeners which way you're

724
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 3: right now?

725
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I'll put it on the record. You

726
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: want me to plant my flag, it's what you want

727
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: me to. Yeah, I mean you're leaning this. This is

728
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: not an ink of course, I laminated, of course, okay,

729
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: but I'm going Malachi Starks, that's the way I'm leaning. Yeah,

730
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: and I and I want to I want it on

731
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: the record right now that I want listeners to know.

732
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: I said. I called him first, and I said, you

733
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: can't lay. Don't even think about it, Garrett, don't even

734
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: come sniffing around here. He's my guy, and so you're

735
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: not allowed to. Well you want to see that on

736
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: the final mop.

737
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 3: You you did make that claim early on, so I

738
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 3: give you credit for that. And I told you coming

739
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 3: out of Indie, I was really impressed with Malchai Starks

740
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 3: when he stepped to the podium. He's smart. His football

741
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 3: IQ and everything that you hear and read is through

742
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: the roof, and it seemed that way just in talking

743
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 3: with him, and that was evident. And when we talked

744
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 3: about him at the Combine a little bit in episode

745
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 3: last week, we talked about him from the standpoint of

746
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 3: he's a little bit more of a of a traditional

747
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 3: free safety and and so that would pairwell Hamilton.

748
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: He can do that.

749
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 3: But in hearing him, man, he talks about his versatility,

750
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 3: like versatility was every other word out of his mouth

751
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 3: when you talk to him. And so he can play

752
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 3: down out the line of scrimmage and in the slaughter,

753
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 3: you can play deep. He can do all these different things.

754
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 3: So like his versatility, if you like asked him, what's

755
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 3: your greatest strength, I think he would point at his versatility.

756
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 3: So I'm using that as a as a indication that

757
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 3: they could go that direction, Like I think I like

758
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 3: Malachi Starks a lot, and so if he ends up

759
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 3: being the pick, and it's it's funny and hearing Gordon

760
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 3: make the point that like draft analytics are getting ahead

761
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 3: of it right now, saying like, of course Malachi Starks

762
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 3: falls to the Ravens. I actually saw that as a

763
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:45,919
Speaker 3: write up and one of the mock drafts that came out,

764
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 3: like of course this guy's going to be there for

765
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 3: the Ravens and they end up taking another great player

766
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 3: at the end of the first and so it would

767
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 3: not surprise me at all if they went that route.

768
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: Well, and the funny thing is that, like you know,

769
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: he didn't. It's being framed that he had this like

770
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: not great, not very good combine and in some of

771
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: these drills like the not the forty and some of

772
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: the bigger vertical and all that stuff, it wasn't great.

773
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: But like some of the other shuttle drills and things

774
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: like that, he was the best in the glass. And

775
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: so the athleticism showed up. It's just Nick emmun Moory

776
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: overshadowed him with his forty yards dash time and those

777
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: some of those more high profile testing them.

778
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, he had a bad forty. He had a he

779
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 3: had I should say not a bad he had a

780
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 3: His forty wasn't great. It wasn't through the roof. And

781
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 3: when Eman Warre, who's a bigger guy, runs this four

782
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 3: four forty, then you're like, whoa, this guy is now

783
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 3: vaulting up the board. And I think that when you

784
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 3: contrast those but I think that that's probably a little

785
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 3: bit short sighted and looking at just that, because you're

786
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 3: right when you look at some of these other drills,

787
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 3: Malachi Starks performed really well from an overall athletic testing story.

788
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 1: I just pulled it up. He was first among among

789
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: defensive backs. Check it if this defensive axerc the DB's

790
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: they just are in short shuttle, gauntlet, drill, line drill,

791
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: whatever the W drill is and whatever the Tarot Austin

792
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: drill is. You know you can get a drill name there.

793
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. Shots Ravens assistant coach Austin.

794
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: So like first in five other drills, including short shuttle,

795
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 1: which is a pretty big one. Yeah, and so he's

796
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: an athletic dude.

797
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh so I think that, like in hearing from

798
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 3: Gordon and talking to people last week, like I think

799
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 3: the Ravens are in a really good spot where they're

800
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 3: picking with how this draft is gonna fall. They'll have

801
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 3: good options, Like I just don't feel like they're going

802
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,879
Speaker 3: to be forced into anything, like you could. You could

803
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 3: go different ways and feel really good about the pick.

804
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,479
Speaker 3: And like if one of the pass rushers is there, great,

805
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 3: if it Starks or even War, even war is probably

806
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 3: gonna be gone. But if it's one of those safeties. Great,

807
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 3: if it's a great corner, as I talked about with him,

808
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,720
Speaker 3: sure sign me up for another great corner.

809
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: Well, the biggest dominated there is Ronnie Stanley. Yes, obviously,

810
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: if if you re sign Ronnie Stanley, which you know

811
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: the Ravens have said they're very optimistic about getting that accomplished,

812
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: then you are really in just best player available mood.

813
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 1: If you don't get a deal done there, then obviously

814
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: tackle is a much bigger need. And so that is like,

815
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: all right, you know, similar a little bit to last

816
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: last off season. You're like, you got to get an

817
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: offense tackle in the first two rounds. And so that's

818
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: part of the beauty of getting a deal done with

819
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: Ronnie Stanley is man that puts the Ravens really in

820
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: best player available position. And I do you think it's

821
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 1: so funny that the two prospects that mel kiper Junior

822
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: and Daniel Jeremiah both mocked to the Ravens before the

823
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: combine both had perfect ten point zero RIS scores, which

824
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 1: Gordon mentioned in here. They're like athletic testing scores, both

825
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: perfect tens that made them the most athletic prospects that

826
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: their positions since at least nineteen eighty seven since they

827
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 1: started doing these RAS scores. So that's Stewart, Shamar Stewart,

828
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: Nick em Mommorey.

829
00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they're both just fly.

830
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 1: Are the two guys projecting the ravens? Like Nope, yeah, sorry,

831
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: I mean, and we don't know, you know, I do

832
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: feel like there's to a degree, there's always this bias

833
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 1: coming out of recency bias coming out of the combine

834
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 1: where you're like, oh, somebody blows up. You're like, oh, man,

835
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: no way, they're gonna be going top ten. And then

836
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: like people go back to the tape and things, you know,

837
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: it settles down a little bit and it evens out

838
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: to a degree, you know AJ Brown for example, DK Metcalf.

839
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, those are the two ones that really stand out.

840
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 1: They blew up the combine and then they.

841
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 3: Are both second round picks, second round picks.

842
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: So like I think sometimes those things can kind of

843
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: level out. But we'll see.

844
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 3: Right now, coming out of the combine, there's seventy guys

845
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 3: who are first round.

846
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: Picks, exactly like everybody's the first round pick.

847
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 3: But everybody's flying on the board. Everyone has a great

848
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 3: performance and everyone's talking about like he's not gonna be

849
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 3: there anymore, right.

850
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: Right, Some of these interviews you did with medium members

851
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: out there, your first round prospect after this.

852
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate that well. As always, we'd love to

853
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 3: se hear here from the listeners. You can email us

854
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 3: at the Lounge at Ravens dot NFL dot net. Let

855
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 3: us know what questions you have, let us know what

856
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 3: you think the Ravens should do in this year's draft.

857
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 3: We always love getting your emails. Thanks again to Gordon,

858
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 3: and we will be back with you later this week.

859
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 3: On Thursday, we've got an interview with Ravens offensive coordinator

860
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 3: Todd Monkin. We're really excited about that. We sat down

861
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 3: with Todd. I think listeners and viewers are really going

862
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 3: to enjoy the conversation with him, share some great insight

863
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 3: on the team and the approach this offseason. So you'll

864
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 3: be able to catch that right here in the Lounge

865
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 3: podcast feed, as well as on our Apple website and

866
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 3: our YouTube channel. Thank you so much for listening, and

867
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,359
Speaker 3: talk with you again on Thursday,