WEBVTT - Ep. 68: Holt Collier - Slave, Confederate Soldier, and Bear Hunter, Part 1 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:08.240 Yeah, he's a fascinating dude, like the way I described 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:10.360 in The People, because I'm like, man, it's like if 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.880 you took Django Unchained and Daniel Boone and like mixed 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:18.400 it together. Right On this episode of the Bear Grease Podcast, 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.440 I want to introduce you to the life of the 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:26.800 man that President Theodore Roosevelt said quote was the greatest 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:29.880 hunter and guide I have ever known. This man has 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.040 been gone from this earth since nineteen thirty six. There 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:36.519 are no video or audio recordings of him. We do 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:41.520 have roughly thirteen photographs, six articles written about him, and 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.159 the first hand accounts of those who knew him, including 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:49.839 Theodore Roosevelt. Many believe this man's legacy deserves to be 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:52.479 on the American pedestal with the likes of Daniel Boone 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.960 and Davy Crockett, and some might even suggest he stand 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.560 with the great African American civil rights pioneers of the 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:03.200 early twentieth century based upon the standing he had in 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:07.480 society and the life he lived. However, his life is 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:12.040 riddled with mystery and controversy. But if you're like me, 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:18.600 after you've been exposed to the energy, audacity, and bravery 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:24.360 of this life, you'll never ever forget the name Holt 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:29.520 call Your I'm in search of understanding who Holpe Callier was, 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.720 and all the questions that will still have after we 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.759 know everything we can know. I really doubt that you're 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:40.800 gonna want to miss this one. This name whole Callier 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:44.240 keeps coming up, and who is this person? I just 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.200 I had no idea, and as I dug and Doug 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:49.400 and I found all these other stories that were part 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.960 of his life, multiple chapters in his life, the fact 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:56.040 that he was connected to the Hinds family, that Andrew Jackson, 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:59.200 to all the prominent families from down in the Natchez district, 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.160 and nothing had ever been definitive, had ever been written 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:15.520 about him. My name is Clay Nukelem, and this is 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:20.520 the Bear Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.560 search for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:28.400 the story of Americans who lived their lives close to 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:34.320 the land. Presented by f HF Gear American Maid, purpose 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.839 built hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:48.200 rugged as the places we explore. I haven't and I never, 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:50.440 of course, no way from me ever to have even 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.040 met Whole called you, but to know what kind of 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:55.840 man he was, And I've said he was a man 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:59.119 amongst men. I mean, to sit down with a president, 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.959 to shit down with some of the titans of industry 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:08.320 and law, business, and to be respected the way he was. 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.640 That says so much to me in today's time. And 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:17.280 I've said before, and it's something that we don't think 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:22.080 could have happened, but it did. And it's because of 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:27.320 the integrity and the matter and the meat of who 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:31.760 Hope call your wash. As Roosevelt said, he was a 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:34.800 man of sixty that couldn't either read nor write. Yet 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.080 he had the dignity of an African king. And if 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:43.200 you look at pictures of Hope, you see that in him. 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.880 Throughout the course of this conversation, my hope is that 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:51.200 will all see Holt call your I believe that within 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.640 his life are the keys to some relevant lessons. I 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.320 don't want to bury the hook too deep on the story, 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.560 because I'm dying to tell you the bullet points of 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:04.320 Holt's life. He was born a slave, and at the 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:08.200 age of fourteen, he joined the Confederate Army and fought 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:12.240 with distinction the entirety of the Civil War. And afterwards 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:16.240 he became a market black bear hunter. After the Civil War, 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.239 he killed a white man in Mississippi, but no charges 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:23.600 were pressed, and was later accused of killing another one, 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.080 but was acquitted for the murder. He hobb nobbed with 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.000 some of the most powerful men in the Delta, gaining 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.359 their loyalty and trust. But what he's most known for 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:38.559 is guiding the then sitting President, Theodore Roosevelt on two 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:43.320 bear hunts in the Mississippi Delta and gaining his friendship 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:47.279 and respect. Holt Collier lasso to bear and tied it 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.320 to the tree for the President, who refused to shoot it, 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:54.080 and from this the press coined the term teddy bear, 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.120 which has become a global term. And it would have 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.160 never happened if it wasn't for the creative grit a 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.279 black man from Mississippi named Holt Collyer. He was rough, 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:09.760 but polished, ruthlessly loyal, and he navigated the Antebellum and 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:16.240 post Bellum South with an uncanny confidence, skill and grace. Undoubtedly, 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:20.560 holtz life doesn't fit into anybody's mold, and I think 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:25.120 that's what qualifies him as a great American. He lived 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:29.800 an almost unbelievable life. You could take every ten years 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.480 of this guy's life and look at what he's what 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.280 he was doing, and it would be you know, movie 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.599 worthy or bookworthy or story worthy. And so you take 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.680 his life in its entirety, especially as long as it was, 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.960 and it's it's just kind of it's hard to fathom 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:48.520 how a person puts that much stuff into a life, 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:52.719 especially with everything you know he had going against him. 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.119 Holt Collyer was born a slave in eighteen forty six 0:05:56.120 --> 0:06:00.240 in Jefferson County, Mississippi, within the floodplain of the Rate 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:04.839 Father of Waters the Mississippi River. He appeared on planet 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:08.440 Earth fourteen years before the Civil War, a war that 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:13.120 would greatly impact his life in multiple ways. Time is 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:17.560 a ruthless master, eroding the answers and shrouding the truth 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:21.320 in a haze of mystery. We have accurate data on 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.960 his life. Much of what he actually told us is 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.919 the data we have, which would seemingly be enough to 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:32.560 make some profound conclusions of his motivations. But I think 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:37.440 we'll see that holtz world was very complex. But who 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:43.360 was Holt Collier to describe? Hope? He was a refined man, 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:49.040 yet could not read nor right, a superbe sportsman, a 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:53.400 contriment outdoorsman, I will say, a gentleman, and a man 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:59.080 among men that could go anywhere, be among any type 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:04.400 of person. He knew what respect was and he commanded respect. 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:09.240 You know, Uh, vonna slave yet road with the Texas 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:14.200 Cavalry and the Confederate Armed Services during the Civil War. Uh, 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:16.480 there was no reason for him to bow his head 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:23.120 to anyone. And I will call you. That was the 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:28.320 voice of writer, Delta historian, and river rat hankber died 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.040 though he never knew him. He is one of the 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.640 men who has worked tirelessly to preserve the memory and 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.239 the legacy of Hulk Collier. The other voice you've heard 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:42.720 is my friend and fellow are Kans and Jonathan Wilkins. 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:47.160 He's a writer, a chef, a waterfowl outfitter who lives 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:50.600 in hunts in the Delta. After being exposed to hold 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.080 story as a black hunter in the South, he studied 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:58.720 Holt's life with particular interests. We're going to dial in 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:03.880 on the details we have about Holt. Here's Jonathan. I'd 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:08.119 say that you know, Holt Collier is one of, if 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:13.600 not the greatest American Southern big game hunter, one of 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:17.000 the most prolific black bear hunters I think we could 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:21.000 assume has ever lived. Born under the guise of enslavement 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:25.960 in eighteen forty six in Mississippi. So we've established he 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.880 was a black man born into slavery and became a 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:32.360 great bear hunter. He had legitimate records indicating he killed 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:36.240 over three thousand bears in his lifetime, presumably more than 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:40.320 our broad Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett combined. But the 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:43.120 wildest thing mentioned so far is that he fought with 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:48.000 the Confederate Army, and an effort to completely over clarify, 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:51.560 the Confederate Army was the armed forces of the southern 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:55.120 portion of the United States that seceded from the United 0:08:55.160 --> 0:09:00.840 States on December sixty and this newly formed government was 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:05.640 in favor of keeping the institution of slavery legal. The 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.880 Northern Army of the United States was against slavery. We're 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.640 going to expend a lot of energy trying to understand 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:17.760 Holt's motivation in his unusual loyalty to the South, But 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:22.160 to be fair, we've got to say they're all conjecture. 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:28.080 Here's Jonathan, you know, that's the That's the thing about life. 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:33.160 It's rarely as binary as as human beings like to 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.920 make it right. Like I, I still don't have a 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:40.600 handle on on Collier's motivations for some of his actions. 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.080 You know, I have suspicions that are you know, and 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.440 these are informed by my life and my perspectives and 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:50.520 how I understand the world. He's a fascinating dude, like 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.079 the way I described the people, because I'm like, man, 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:56.000 it's like if you took Django Unchained and Daniel Boone 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.600 and like mixed it together, right, Because there's there's so 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.840 many there's so many facets of the guy's life that 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:07.280 like that don't make sense as far as kind of 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.600 the assertions of himself that he was able to make right, 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:14.800 especially you're talking about within a society that is foundationally 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:18.040 built upon him not being able to assert himself right, 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.120 him not being able to be an authority, him not 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:25.200 being able to thrive, you know, for all intents and purposes, 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:29.280 especially for the time period, he was more financially successful 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.440 than you know, almost any other black people around. You know, 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:36.240 he enjoyed great longevity, He enjoyed you know, kind of 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:40.080 high social standing in a society where black men, you know, 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.600 that was not something that was available to them. Then 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.640 to the point that he interacts, he interacts with the 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:50.880 seminal American figure, you know, American political figure in such 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.400 an influential way that twenty one years later you have 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.240 this legacy of the Teddy Bear that has touched pretty 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.679 much every American you know. I'd argue probably a large 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:03.240 percentage of the world. It's familiar with the Teddy Bearer. 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.000 But again, like no one knows who this guy is. 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.960 No one knows who this guy is. Have you ever 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:17.080 heard of Hault Collyer. I'm walking down the street in 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:21.319 downtown Jackson, Mississippi. The dome of the state Capitol is 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.280 directly at my back. I slip a breath mat in 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.040 my mouth as I push open the door of a 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:31.120 swanky office building. I'm told by the receptionist the man 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.520 I'm looking for is on the mezzanine floor, which is 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:38.760 an odd architectural term used to describe a floor between 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.800 the first and second floor as in a building. It's 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.520 an odd and unfamiliar term to me, kind of like 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:50.040 Hulk Collyer's life. I'm looking for a lawyer named minor 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.280 if Buchanon. It would be easy to say that he's 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:58.000 been the bulwark of preserving Hulk Collyer's legacy in modern times. 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.800 He's traveled across the country to give presentations about Holt. 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:05.199 He commissioned the painting of a watercolor print of Holt 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.760 on his horse. But his biggest contribution is that he's 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:14.200 written the only book in existence dedicated to hold Collier, 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:19.840 aptly titled Holt Collier Minor. Will be our primary guide 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.400 through the details of this story. Here's how he got 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:30.240 interested in Holt. It's a circuitous tale. I am a 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:35.400 native Mississippian, born and raised here as Holt was, and 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.040 if you're familiar with his story, you know it's epic. 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.360 It's an absolutely epic story. But I had never heard 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:46.160 his name. And I was visiting with my children the 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:50.760 Memphis Zoo in nine We got in a rush. We 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:52.880 were in the Bay exhibit and we had to go 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.280 meet somebody and we had to leave, and I was 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:57.400 in a little bit of a hurry. So I grabbed 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.520 my five year old daughter and I said, We've got 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:01.640 to go, and she says, wait a minute, daddy, I 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.440 haven't seen the Teddy Bear. She thought that Teddy Bear 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:08.080 was real, and I didn't even think when I said, 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:10.400 I said, honey, I'm that Teddy Bear is not real. 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:14.280 It's just a toy. And she broke into tears. I 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.720 may as well as shot the Easter Bunny in front 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.319 of her, you know, and uh, she broke into tears. 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:21.360 But when she got her composer, she said, well, if 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:24.160 it's not real, where did it come from? Now? I 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.120 had heard these human entrant stories that would get published 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.720 in the newspaper, in the magazine about once a year 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:34.240 that Theodore Roosevelt had come to Mississippi for a bear hunt, 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.400 and that's where the Teddy Bear got started. But that's 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:40.040 really all it was, ever was. So I'm I promised 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.120 her I'd make a bedtime story out of it. My 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.800 law offices downtown Jackson, right across street from the Department 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.360 of Archives and History, and I knew those people pretty well. 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.679 So sure enough, I was good for my promise and 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:53.960 went over to the archives, walked over there, and there's 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.600 a subject file on the Theodore Roosevelt hunt. As I'm 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.240 getting into this subject file went on the Teddy Bear, 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.680 another one on Theodore Roosevelt. This name whole Callyer keeps 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:07.280 coming up, and who is this person? I just had 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:09.920 no idea, And as I dug and Doug and I 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.560 found all these other stories that were part of his life, 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.840 multiple chapters in his life. The fact that he was 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.720 connected to the Hinds family, to the Andrew Jackson, to 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.680 all the prominent families from down in the Natchez district, 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.640 and nothing had ever been definitive, had ever been written 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.240 about him. I decided to make a book project, and 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.560 it came out in two thousand two, which was a 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:34.200 hundred anniversary of the nineteen o two Teddy Bear hunt. 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:39.480 So this bedtime story goal turned into a book project. Yeah. 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:41.400 She was five years old when she asked me where 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.000 the teddy bear came from? When when the book came out, 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.000 she was a junior. She was probably satisfied that you 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:50.120 wrote a great book on the whole thing. Yeah, but 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.280 she was a freshman freshman of college when he came 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:58.120 in in nineteen eighty nine. Miner began his research on 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.240 Whole Callier and the book was sell published in two 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:06.520 thousand two, after being rejected by a few university publishing presses, 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:11.960 perhaps because of the controversial nature of Holtz life. Perhaps 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:13.760 it's because he was a black man who fought for 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.560 the Confederate army. That's a complex story to tell in 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:21.640 today's society. It's very quick to see that Minor didn't 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.000 write this book on a whim or with the hope 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:27.680 of creating a New York Times bestseller. It evolved out 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:31.400 of a genuine curiosity and morphed into a decade long 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:36.200 project of trailing a man's life whose story was bypassed 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:40.080 by the world. I'm incredibly grateful for those who do 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.240 work like this. I've read a lot of self published books, 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:45.880 and I was impressed by the amount of research and 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:50.560 corroboration of the information in the book. It's well written, 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.800 but still no one fully is able to understand wholtz situation. 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.960 So what do we know about Wold Collyer's earliest days? 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.160 I think it's interesting sometimes with these you know an 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.200 enslaved person, A lot of times you don't have a 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:08.920 lot of information. But with Hope, we have a fair 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:12.080 bit of information about his upbringing. What do we know 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:14.960 about his childhood? Well, let me make a comment on 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.400 what you just said. When somebody's born there, enslaved there, 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.840 they lived during this period of time. It's hard to 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.520 find information about him. It's impossible to find an image 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:29.040 of them. For instance, Robert Johnson, the famous blues player, 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.960 I think there's only one, maybe two images of him, 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.880 and he lived in a time when cameras were pretty prevalent. 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:37.960 Whole Caryer was born in eighteen forty six, died in 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.400 nineteen thirty six at the age of ninety, and I 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:47.000 think I found thirteen images of him. I thought was incredible. 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.480 Polt lived to be ninety years old, which is hard 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.640 to believe when you hear of the skirmishes with death 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.240 that he avoided. I want to hear from Jonathan Wilkins 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.560 about this very thing we just wrought up why some 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:06.040 of these African American figures are so undocumented by pop culture. 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.439 My personal hope is that I can truly listen to 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.920 people with unique and different perspectives than mine, and over 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:20.280 the years, Jonathan has often helped me do just that. Well. 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:24.640 I mean, that's you know, that's kind of the American way, right, 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.919 like we we footnote the black people in this country 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.960 that have have done important things right, like he's he's 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.680 he's phenomenal. But I you know, I wonder how many 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:41.720 other phenomenal and brilliant and like just incredibly interesting stories 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.719 will never know. I'll give you like a good reference 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.560 point for this. So oftentimes they talk about the the 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:52.040 first film ever made, right, and it's this little tiny 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.280 snippet and it's a black guy riding a horse. All right. 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:58.440 No one knows the black guy's name, but they preserve 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.119 the horse's name. You know. I bet you that a 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.480 lot of people don't know that the White House was 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:08.560 built by slaves. You know, history is written by the victors. 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:13.359 I don't know, you know, it's just it's it's just 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:17.080 kind of like it's the story of America. Really, I 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:20.720 think what Jonathan is saying is true. It's powerful and 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:25.320 interesting stuff. Here's how Minors started his first research on 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:29.800 Wholk Collier. When I first started my research, I couldn't 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.320 find anybody that ever heard of Whole Callier unless they 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:35.640 were from Washington, Kent. When I first learned about him, 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.960 I said, well, maybe some people in these nursing homes 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.119 will remember him. Because I started my research in nineteen 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:47.720 eighty nine and he died in nineteen thirty six, it's 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:52.600 possible that somebody remembers Whole care Thank god I started 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.200 my research when I did, because I found about six 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:57.920 people who remembered whole callier really who had met him, 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.719 Oh knew him. They were children, they knew him as 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:04.240 an old man. And one of them was the most amazing. 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.399 His recall was perfect. He was he was as smart 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:09.840 as a whip. He could remember everything about the whole car. 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.399 His name was Pete Johnson, and Pete owned the liquor 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:17.359 store in Los Angeles. And I had gone up to Greenville, 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:19.359 and people knew I was doing this research and I 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:21.600 was trying to find folks. And the first person I 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:24.480 met was Jane Weather. She was a widow who part 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.080 of the Metcalf family and she's she was ninety four 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.720 years old, and she remembered Holt very well. He had 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.040 lived there on their place, and she gave me a 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:34.399 lot of information on him. Soon after that, about a 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.440 month or two after that, I get this telephone call 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.159 from a friend who's helped me out, and he says, Minor, 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.800 you need to write this down. Pete Johnson gave me 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.520 his telephone number out in Los Angeles. He had just 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.960 come home to Greenville, Mississippi. He had been raised there 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.040 as a child, and he was trying to get some 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.000 statue or some memory or a park named after whole Car. 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:56.719 So I got on the phone and talked to him. 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.760 I ended up talking to Pete Johnson probably ten or 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.479 twelve of hours interviewing him over the phone. He had 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.120 been raised right next door the Whole Car. His Whole 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.080 Car is an old man sitting on his front porch, 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:12.240 telling his stories about bear hunt with Theodore Roosevelt, by 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.400 the Civil War, escapades about killing men after the war 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.639 and not being prosecuted for it, and and and what 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:21.879 I loved Pete Johnson telling me was it all the 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:25.119 children of the neighbors before television and really before radio, 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.240 but all the children in the neighborhood would come up 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.280 there as the son's going down and say, you know, 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.600 Mr Hotels, some stories tell Uncle Holt, they call him. 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.200 But before whole Care sitting on his front porch, almost 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:39.880 blind at this say, before he would tell him the stories, 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.000 he would make them put their pennies together and go 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.359 down the street that you know with the little corner 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:48.520 grocery thing, and make them buy him a plug of 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:52.440 tobaccup and a knee high orange And when they bring 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:54.560 that plug in the back and knee high orange. He'd 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:56.840 sit there and talk to him for until the parents, 0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:01.480 until the parents called him home, a plug of tobacco 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:05.399 and a knee high orange. It's stories like this that 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.320 wouldn't be in the national newspaper article, but they give 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:19.080 you a feel for the man. I'm grateful for people 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.960 like Minor who took the time to document the last 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:26.960 remaining people on planet Earth who knew Uncle Holt. Now 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:33.000 we're going to get into Holt's early life history. Hold 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:36.359 was born down there in Jefferson County at a place 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:39.960 called home Hill Plantation, just a few about four miles 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:43.280 out of Fayette. Who was born to the Hines family, 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:47.760 best known for General Thomas Hines, who served with Andrew 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:51.159 Jackson at the Battle of New Orleans. Was uh in 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:56.399 the United States Congress, elected in eight same year Andrew 0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:59.280 Jackson was elected president. Was was a friend of Jackson, 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.000 was a friend of the all the prominent people in 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:06.240 that area down Air Marshton Green and so Holt was 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:11.760 born into affluent circumstances, although he's enslaved and he's part 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:16.479 of the labor class, and his father had served with 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:20.119 General Thomas Hines as a man servant at the Battle 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:23.480 of New Orleans, so they were closely connected. He was 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:25.600 not a These were not field hands and were not 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:30.000 people working in the field. And holtz mother served the 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:32.320 main house and I don't know as a cook or 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:35.600 seamstress of what. And when Holt got to be old enough, 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:38.240 they put him in charge of the horses and the dogs. 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:40.760 They were big hunters, and that's what hold did. He 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:44.600 started out hunting from from a very early age, and 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:48.280 he knew the horses and he knew the dogs. Holt 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:52.200 was enslaved, and inside that system he worked in close 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:56.160 proximity to his slave owners, the Hines family, who were 0:22:56.280 --> 0:23:00.280 part of the powerful southern aristocracy of the region. They 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:03.840 had even been friends with the former president Andrew Jackson. 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:08.920 Here's Jonathan describing Holt's early life. I mean, so prior 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:11.840 to the Civil War, he's living on this Hines plantation 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:16.200 and this is basically a this is a Mississippi plantation 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:20.439 that's like literally hacked out of the wilderness. Right they 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:24.680 talk about like basically this is just a malaria infested swamp. 0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:28.920 You know, essentially what is a you know, American jungle, right, 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:31.719 So human beings have to go in there and cut 0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:35.520 and hack and channelized stuff and drain it out. And 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:38.960 so he's born to servitude. You know, his family has 0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:42.360 been enslaved for multiple generations by the Hines family. He's 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:45.760 born into that family. He's born into that system of enslavement. 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:49.520 You know, I guess on the plantation his family had, 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.760 you know, a slightly higher position than maybe some of 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:56.000 some of the other enslaved people, which is, to my 0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:58.520 mind is a is a very dangerous distinction to make 0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:01.680 because it and imply is that it makes a situation 0:24:01.680 --> 0:24:04.399 not what it was. Right. But he's kind of this 0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:07.480 family of house slaves, you know, I guess we'd be 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:11.400 the colloquialism for it. And around ten years old he 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:15.679 kills his first bear. So even for that to happen, 0:24:16.119 --> 0:24:20.280 he's got to have some access that other enslaved people 0:24:20.280 --> 0:24:23.120 don't have, right, He's got to have access to weapons. 0:24:23.119 --> 0:24:25.560 He's got to have access, you know, or the ability 0:24:25.680 --> 0:24:28.520 to go out into the wilderness. And so I think 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:33.200 he's he's probably showing himself to be an extraordinary human 0:24:33.240 --> 0:24:36.240 being from a very young age. Killing a bear that 0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:40.359 young is an impressive feat from a sportsman standpoint, But 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:43.040 of more note is that a young slave boy would 0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:45.800 have had a gun and been able to hunt. Here's 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:50.040 Minor developing the context for holtz life. One of the 0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:53.320 unusual things about the Mississippi Delta is it flooding almost 0:24:53.320 --> 0:24:57.879