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Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely

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Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything, all right. So I'm wearing my underwearing

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Speaker 1: all my clothes and um, but I'm in bed. And

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Speaker 1: remember the old sitcoms and they couldn't show couples in bed.

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Speaker 1: I do. So they had the show that couple has

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Speaker 1: always had like little beds, like two little beds with

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Speaker 1: a night stand between them. And I was like, how

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Speaker 1: a couple slept in old sitcoms and TV shows? That's

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Speaker 1: how me and Mark Kenyon A Right now we're in

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Speaker 1: a hotel room and we're in little beds, laying in

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Speaker 1: little beds. Um and and and Doug during In and

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Speaker 1: the Eagle are in little chairs facing us, but we're

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Speaker 1: in chairs. Uh, Mark Kenyon, Now you like, like I

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Speaker 1: think you've even said the sport that that that you're

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Speaker 1: you use the term like you're a white tail guy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: taking you like I understand what it means. I want

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Speaker 1: you to explain for you know, what it means to

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Speaker 1: be a white tail guy, because like I always say

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Speaker 1: that I'm a big game generalist, which isn't really a

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Speaker 1: category you know, no one types in big game generalists

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Speaker 1: into search engines, the truth about big game general truth

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Speaker 1: about big game generalists. But what is how your small

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Speaker 1: game exploits fit into being a big game generalist. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm a hunting generalist, but in terms of talking about

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Speaker 1: big game. Yeah, in terms of big game of a

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Speaker 1: big game generalist. But I'm a hunting generalist with an

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Speaker 1: emphasis on big game generalistness. But what does the white

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Speaker 1: tail guy mark for me? A white tail guy means

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Speaker 1: that that's when I grew up on So that was

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Speaker 1: almost all I hunted, growing up with white tails, and

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Speaker 1: now it's still comprises probably of my hunting and then

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Speaker 1: most of my year otherwise. I mean, I'm doing white

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Speaker 1: tail relaid stuff almost the entire year, from January through December,

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Speaker 1: whether it's hunting or scouting or preparing spots or all

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Speaker 1: sorts of different things. So when I say I'm a

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Speaker 1: white tail guy, I mean that is like my number

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Speaker 1: one passion. It's also how I make my living. And

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Speaker 1: then I have you know, as my ability to travel

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Speaker 1: and do different things has grown, Um, you know, I've

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Speaker 1: been dabbling in new things which which I've really come

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Speaker 1: to enjoy. If I've been able to go hunting elk

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Speaker 1: now for the last four years. You know, learned how

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Speaker 1: turkey hunt like eight nine years ago, so I love

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Speaker 1: doing that now. And you know, I pussed around with

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Speaker 1: a small game when I was a kid too, but

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Speaker 1: but white tails were what got me with a meat

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Speaker 1: hook in the heart. I'd say, um, is your foot

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Speaker 1: touch on the ground? That's interesting because I think that

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Speaker 1: when TV evolved to allow couples to be in bed

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Speaker 1: in one bed, I think one of the wasn't. I

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Speaker 1: think that one of the people in the couple had

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Speaker 1: to have a foot on the floor. There were crazy

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Speaker 1: rules here. I think that once they could have the

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Speaker 1: same bed that had to be on the floor. So

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Speaker 1: this those are like SCC rules. Yeah, I think the

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Speaker 1: marks fixing to come over into my bed, you know,

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Speaker 1: with that before. It's been a really good trip, Steve.

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Speaker 1: But I can't tell you what's funny is my uh

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Speaker 1: one of my wife's biggest pet peeves about visiting my

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Speaker 1: family is that as soon as I started dating Kylie,

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Speaker 1: they changed my parents. In my bedroom where I grew up,

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Speaker 1: they took out my regular full size bed and replaced

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Speaker 1: it with two little TV slept over. Yeah, so now

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Speaker 1: even we're still married and we sleep in separate beds there,

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Speaker 1: what really, She's like, why do we still do this?

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Speaker 1: But your parents did it for that reason because they

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Speaker 1: explained that it was because the old bed is bad

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Speaker 1: and they had company coming over, spent a weekend, and

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Speaker 1: they happened to know someone who had these almost new beds,

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Speaker 1: and you know, they don't want their son defiling the

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Speaker 1: family home that that might be what's actually happening? How much?

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Speaker 1: How comfortable are you? Like, how comfortable are you saying

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Speaker 1: when you say you make your living doing it? Like

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Speaker 1: like spell off of it? What that means? Because like

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Speaker 1: a lot like most, not most dudes in the world,

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Speaker 1: if you said, hey, do you want to make your

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Speaker 1: living hunting? Not most dudes in the world, most dudes

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Speaker 1: who might be inclined to be listening to this right

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Speaker 1: now would would be like, sure, So what does it

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Speaker 1: look like? What does it mean to be like to

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Speaker 1: be like a professional white tail guy? So what that

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Speaker 1: means for me? It's not actually the hunting that makes

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Speaker 1: my living necessarily, it's content that I create based on

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Speaker 1: those experiences. So I run wired hunt dot com, which

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Speaker 1: is a deer Hunting website and the Wired Hunt podcast,

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Speaker 1: which is a deer hunting podcast. So I make probably

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Speaker 1: my income from at tizing and things related to that.

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Speaker 1: And then I write for most of the big deer

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Speaker 1: hunting magazines and written for Outdoor Life, Feeling, Stream, etcetera. Um,

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Speaker 1: So do some freelance writing um. And then a little

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Speaker 1: bit of like merchandise sales and some digital e books

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Speaker 1: some kind of things like that, but basically content related

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Speaker 1: to white tail hunting. Um in my core audience. And

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Speaker 1: really where I started was like that, you know, the

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Speaker 1: tagline of what you're hunt was deer hunting for the

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Speaker 1: next Generation. So it's been really focused on that really

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Speaker 1: really serious white tail guy that's thinking white tails all

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Speaker 1: your own, and um, you know, producing content around that

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Speaker 1: that lifestyle that that's something I think that you said

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Speaker 1: something to Doug and then Doug said it to me. Um,

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Speaker 1: so I want to circle background and ask you about it.

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Speaker 1: Where there's like a seasonality to hunting, okay, and in

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Speaker 1: the business of hunting. So when I say the business

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Speaker 1: hunting means that's like content, right, just like stuff that

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Speaker 1: people watch for enjoyment, stuff that people watch and read

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Speaker 1: in order to learn equipment that people purchase, just like

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Speaker 1: the activity around hunting is like strongly seasonal, where after

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Speaker 1: Labor Day, um, people start like there's like a creeping

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Speaker 1: interest in hunting, and then it lingers past hunting season

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Speaker 1: kind of through the holidays as people are still thinking about,

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Speaker 1: like it's still freshener head like stuff they wanted to get,

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Speaker 1: stuff they wanted to do. They're still excited about it.

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Speaker 1: They're kind of sharing memories about their fall, and then

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Speaker 1: it sort of peters off and goes away. And uh,

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Speaker 1: Douglas recappy conversation you had with you and you were

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Speaker 1: saying that that it's kind of like in the white

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Speaker 1: tailed world, it's kind of almost not that way anymore.

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Speaker 1: I'd agree with that. Yeah, Like what like why because

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Speaker 1: there's always something to be doing. So I mean, okay,

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Speaker 1: let's just start at the beginning of the year. In

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Speaker 1: January and February, it's postseason scouting, so you can you

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Speaker 1: can scout and see sign and so many different things

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Speaker 1: a lot better during that time frame. Tracks in the

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Speaker 1: snow um as as a stow excuse me, as the

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Speaker 1: snow starts to melt in early March, depending where you're at,

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Speaker 1: then you can really see related signs, so rubs and

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Speaker 1: scrapes and stuff left over from the year before. So

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of that going on January through March,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, late February through March then is

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Speaker 1: shed hunting, and that's huge in the white tail community

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Speaker 1: these days. So I mean tons of interest related to

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Speaker 1: shed hunting. And then once you get later into the spring,

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Speaker 1: then everyone's worked on their habitat projects. So then all April,

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Speaker 1: May June you're talking food plots or timber stand improvements

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Speaker 1: or creating bedding cover or whatever it might be. And

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Speaker 1: then you get into summer and then everybody's talking about

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Speaker 1: hanging my tree stands, getting out your trail cameras to

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Speaker 1: see what kind of bucks are in the area, scouting

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Speaker 1: bean fields, um, getting all your final prep archery practice,

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Speaker 1: rifle practice, whatever is you're doing all the way, and

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden September and you're you're hunting

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Speaker 1: again in some states October first and others and it's

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Speaker 1: spread out. But yeah, I mean, my every single day

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Speaker 1: of my year something white terror lad is going on.

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Speaker 1: Um except for the last like seven YEA cabout cab

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Speaker 1: when when when you say you're going out in January

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Speaker 1: to check tracks, what exactly are you doing? So, I

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Speaker 1: mean that kind of situation like you might be walking

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Speaker 1: the edges of cut Cordfield and see if you can

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Speaker 1: cut a big track, and if you cut a big track,

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Speaker 1: you might Okay, there's a mature buck potentially here, and

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Speaker 1: if the season is done, that's a great opportunity to

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Speaker 1: follow that track back and determine where that buck's betting.

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Speaker 1: And you know, no risk there if I bump him,

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Speaker 1: no big deal, and youved in the strong likelihood he's

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Speaker 1: gonna be alive next hunting season. And these these mature bucks,

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Speaker 1: at least in the places where I hunt, you know,

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Speaker 1: like Michigan or other heavily pressured states. So there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of hunters. These bucks, they bed places for a reason,

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Speaker 1: like nothing's happening willy nilly. If a buck, if a

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Speaker 1: mature buck is bettered in the area, it's because he

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Speaker 1: knows he's got you know, safety, he's not got a

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Speaker 1: lot of humans going in there. He's got some way

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Speaker 1: to get out of there quickly. He can observe or

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Speaker 1: smell what's happening throughout the day. So when you find

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Speaker 1: those kinds of areas. Not only is that mature buck

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Speaker 1: that's alive right now probably going to continue to use that,

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Speaker 1: but that's probably gonna be you as in the future

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Speaker 1: by future buck. So if that buck, if you kill

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Speaker 1: that deer, someone else is gonna come in there and

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Speaker 1: pick it up. So if you can identify those buck

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Speaker 1: betting areas, you're in a good situation moving forward. So

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Speaker 1: you spend a lot of time backtrack and deer. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: what when you look for a big track, like what

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Speaker 1: what is the I mean, everybody likes to you know,

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Speaker 1: everyone likes to think they know a big track. Okay,

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Speaker 1: where you got that the dew clause or splayed out

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Speaker 1: like the animal gets to a certain way, like talk

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Speaker 1: through some of that stuff, some of the fallacies and

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Speaker 1: truths about like what does a big old buck track

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Speaker 1: look like. I can't say I'm an expert on this,

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Speaker 1: but what I always look for as a four finger track.

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Speaker 1: So something that wide across there, if you've got it,

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Speaker 1: doesn't look like it's a running track. If it's a

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Speaker 1: walking track, a walking four finger wide track. Now consider

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Speaker 1: that my hands are extremely powerful. That a big hand. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's very subjective, I know, that's a walking track,

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Speaker 1: four fingers one on a grown male. And that that's

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Speaker 1: have you heard that, Doug. That's something I've been told

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Speaker 1: a lot. Ye. And the key is the walking tracks,

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Speaker 1: because any of your or any bucks track looks big

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Speaker 1: if it's yes, a running our moving tracks. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I agree with that. I mean yeah, I mean imagine

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Speaker 1: a four finger track from me, and that's one of

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Speaker 1: my cattle got out. You know, have you ever done

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Speaker 1: a handoff where you take your pressed gar see who's

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Speaker 1: the most powerful. It would be an interesting one. I

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Speaker 1: do want to point out that I did have you

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Speaker 1: on on the handoff length at least. Yeah, but when

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Speaker 1: you factor in height like my proportion. You know, I've

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Speaker 1: told this story for my old man met John Wayne,

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Speaker 1: and John Wayne commented on my old man's hand that stuff,

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Speaker 1: let's be proud of. Yes, what was the comment. I've

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Speaker 1: never shook a hand bigger than mine, And my old

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Speaker 1: man just said, and you never fought in the war

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Speaker 1: and I didn't. He sat it out. He sat it out.

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Speaker 1: His name was not John Wayne, his name is Maryon

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Speaker 1: and he sat the war out. Wow. Uh, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if my dad rubbed his nose in it. The

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Speaker 1: director John Ford rubbed John Wayne's nose in that because

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Speaker 1: Ford uh was in the service and did propaganda films

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Speaker 1: and put his life at tremendous risk many times. And

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Speaker 1: later I went on to make all these great Westerns

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Speaker 1: with John Wayne and Ford would uh. Ford would embarrass

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Speaker 1: and ridicule Wayne Um about his uh lack of service. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: your knowledge about films has surprised man, This dude, I

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Speaker 1: like movies a lot. May not realize you had that

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Speaker 1: catalog in the mind. There interesting big buck tracks? Do

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Speaker 1: they get there's a big huge buck track as he

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Speaker 1: gets older? Does it? Does it round off on the tip?

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Speaker 1: I think it varies? Is very individual. I think you see,

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Speaker 1: this isn't something I've gotten as far to do. But

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Speaker 1: I know some guys and I probably should try to

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Speaker 1: do this more so they will actually go about trying

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Speaker 1: to identify individual bucks by their tracks, and so there

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Speaker 1: will be leading toward. That's what I'm leading towards. So

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Speaker 1: if you want to jump into that, jump into that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So there's I haven't done this yet, but there are

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Speaker 1: some guys I know that can look at certain tracks.

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Speaker 1: They can or can they say they can. I can't

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Speaker 1: verify that. But they tell me they can identify like

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Speaker 1: a little chink in it, or rounded edge on one side,

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Speaker 1: or something like the chink chink h something like that.

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Speaker 1: And then so here's something some people do to to

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Speaker 1: make this a little bit easier. Make track catchers. So

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Speaker 1: let's say you have got a food source and maybe

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Speaker 1: there's a handful of trail that leading to that food.

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Speaker 1: So let's just say it's a cornfield and there's a

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Speaker 1: handful of trails leading to that cornfield, and you want

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Speaker 1: to know, how is buck X coming into this area.

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Speaker 1: What some guys will do is they will go in

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Speaker 1: there and they will rake out back up. I'm sorry, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that you're out with your with your knockers

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Speaker 1: and you see a big old buck standing in the

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Speaker 1: field and you're like and you're you're wondering, like what

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Speaker 1: what route is he using to get here? Like how

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Speaker 1: can I head him off? Because once he's in it,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna correct. So so in that case, then

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Speaker 1: you're curious, like, you know, back in the woods, what

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Speaker 1: is he doing before he arrives here? And so one

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Speaker 1: whether there's several ways to determine that. One you could

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Speaker 1: observe if you can find an observation stand or something

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Speaker 1: where you can watch that and see to the timber.

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Speaker 1: Number two, you could use trail cameras, so I actually

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Speaker 1: put a camera on trails and stuff and monitor that way.

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Speaker 1: Or a third way is making these track catchers, where

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Speaker 1: you essentially will clear out an area on that trail

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Speaker 1: really clean and flat without leaves and making you a

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Speaker 1: nice even dirt area, and then come back in the

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Speaker 1: next day and see which one of those trails has

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Speaker 1: that big buck track or you know, maybe you saw

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Speaker 1: the buck come off trail X, and you know to

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Speaker 1: go check that track catcher because you know he walked

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Speaker 1: through there, and then you can see that print clearly

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Speaker 1: pressed in there and say, Okay, he came through here,

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Speaker 1: this is what his track looks like. Take a picture

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Speaker 1: of it or something, and in the future you've got

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Speaker 1: one more tool in your chest that you can use

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Speaker 1: to try to pattern that deer are you Are you

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Speaker 1: familiar with umm, not familiar with, but but lion hunters

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Speaker 1: in the desert. The guys that are hunting lions in

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Speaker 1: the absence of snow will carry around little whisk brooms,

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Speaker 1: sometimes full on brooms to dust out just to to

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Speaker 1: to to wipe it clean on any kind of little

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Speaker 1: crossing spots or like dry creek beds just to try

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Speaker 1: to see. We used to do that as all hunting guides,

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Speaker 1: like certain bigger trails that we walked a lot, and

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Speaker 1: you'd get to certain sections that were just like soft

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Speaker 1: and sandy, or you knew that it was some sort

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Speaker 1: of like just a crossing or whatnot. It would often

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Speaker 1: have elk tracks, and so we would clean them out

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Speaker 1: and that way, next time you walk through, you'd be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: somebody was here in the last twenty four hours. You

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Speaker 1: know there's elk in the area. When when fur trap

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know in fur trapping trap muskrat and

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Speaker 1: mink and raccoon and beaver and stuff. You pay a

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Speaker 1: lot of attention to undercut banks, like a lot of

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Speaker 1: animals like to do to move along streams. They'll always

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Speaker 1: use undercut banks because it gives you overhead protection. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're not if you're a little mink work and you're

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Speaker 1: just not exposed to avian predators and whatever else. And

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of food onto there because all the

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Speaker 1: other ship that's trying not to get eaten is also

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Speaker 1: living under the undercut bank, and I would just go along,

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Speaker 1: like go along my hip boots, And anytime you had

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Speaker 1: to undercut bank where's a little bit of sand or

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Speaker 1: mud on the bottom, you just would not even thinking

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Speaker 1: about a kick water up in there to slick it.

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Speaker 1: So the next time he came by, you'd see, you know,

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Speaker 1: you'd like slick it out to make to see if

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Speaker 1: there's a mink work in it or whatever. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's like a technique that probably has it's probably

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Speaker 1: an invented many times, you know. Yeah, well that makes

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Speaker 1: this a simple but effective Oh yeah. But like the

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Speaker 1: first time someone did it and showed it to me,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I've been like walking this trail for

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Speaker 1: three years, you know, and how got anything? Yeah? Yeah, Um,

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Speaker 1: so that's like the January kind of activity. Now. Shed hunting, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: are people like our dudes hunting sheds because they're trying

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Speaker 1: to learn what kind of bucks are about, or they

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Speaker 1: just hunting sheds they want to find if they'd like

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Speaker 1: to have them. I guess the ladder. I think it's

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Speaker 1: a combination of both. At least for me, it's both.

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Speaker 1: And most of the guys I hang out with it's both.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we write antlers are are cool. I love

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Speaker 1: having a nailer in my hand and getting look at

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Speaker 1: it and turned around. Given the people. Usually I'm giving

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Speaker 1: people with them. Yeah, there are a few far between

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Speaker 1: in Michigan dougs loose with them, schools and whatnot. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you've you're thinking about the end. It's it's funny that

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Speaker 1: you say that, though, because when you Mark was saying, uh,

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Speaker 1: deer hunting, what was it for the next generation. That

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Speaker 1: was one of the conversations that we had up there

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Speaker 1: on the mountain. It was that I'm twice his age, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I am. It's it's a bitter sweet that's a

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Speaker 1: bitter sweet thing. Though to realize, my god, you're the

328
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Speaker 1: old guy. You know, they've become less and less important

329
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Speaker 1: to me. I used to very much just like hoard him,

330
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Speaker 1: never wanted to give him away, and then eventually I

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Speaker 1: was just like, really, why he's important to me? I

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Speaker 1: think there's a threshold maybe, like I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: just starting to get to that point where I haven't

334
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,320
Speaker 1: like at first it was so like I had to

335
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,760
Speaker 1: and then ten and then twelve, and like it's such

336
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:40,639
Speaker 1: a special thing. And then once you get to a

337
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,760
Speaker 1: certain number yet it's easier to part with them. Um,

338
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,920
Speaker 1: but if it's on your property, it's nice to know.

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00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I found both sides on a couple of

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00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,480
Speaker 1: different occasions, and it's like, I want to kill this, dear,

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Speaker 1: or if I kill this year, it's gonna be cool

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00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 1: to have a sheds. But this is okay, all right?

343
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,600
Speaker 1: Uh So to recap, like, now, now I got myself

344
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 1: all messed up. I get it the ship, but I

345
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,200
Speaker 1: wanna get back to the primary question. So with all

346
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,360
Speaker 1: the trail cameras and watching and looking and scouting and

347
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,000
Speaker 1: all that kind of ship you're telling me now, and

348
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,800
Speaker 1: then you'll find a shed antler. Now I want to

349
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,840
Speaker 1: back up for the real neo fights here. Um, dear,

350
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,600
Speaker 1: I'm going way backing up. Dear lose their antlers every year.

351
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,159
Speaker 1: Some people don't really realize this. A deer drops his

352
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 1: antler and regenerates it every year. So when people talk

353
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Speaker 1: about horns and antlers, and sometimes people will say like, oh,

354
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,919
Speaker 1: that dear is horns, and yeah, okay, that's fine, but

355
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,960
Speaker 1: it's not a horn. It's an antler horn. An animal

356
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,960
Speaker 1: keeps his whole life mountain goats, big horn sheep, all

357
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 1: that crazy African animals. They got horns, and then you

358
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,000
Speaker 1: retain your horns. With one exception, the prong horn, the

359
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 1: American prong horn or antelope um is, it is the

360
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 1: only horned animal that sheds its horn and girls it

361
00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,440
Speaker 1: new every year. And horns are like basically made out

362
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 1: of hair. Antlers are like bone. Um. So when we

363
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 1: say a shed, we mean like the annual shed and

364
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 1: a buckle with some exceptions, but generally a buck every

365
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,880
Speaker 1: year is going to grow bigger and bigger antlers if

366
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,399
Speaker 1: he's fortunate enough to live so long and hits what

367
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 1: age mark six seven eight older than that they started

368
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,680
Speaker 1: they started to go back downhill. Yeah, but one and

369
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 1: the one of the thousand bucks lives that olde. They

370
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,639
Speaker 1: just don't live that long too much, it happens to him. Um.

371
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,760
Speaker 1: So you're telling me that you have and all the

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00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,119
Speaker 1: thinking and scouting and looking and trail cam in that

373
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,359
Speaker 1: you're up to, that you'll now and then find a

374
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,840
Speaker 1: shed antler and be like, I didn't know that this

375
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,680
Speaker 1: buck existed. Well, it depends if it's property that you

376
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 1: hunt that I've been doing all those things. Yeah, that

377
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 1: still happens sometimes, so he lived his whole damn year,

378
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,880
Speaker 1: but shed his antler evaded your attend lots of times

379
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,480
Speaker 1: that these deer have different ranges. So like the bucks

380
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,919
Speaker 1: that I'm seeing in the summer and the hunting season,

381
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:08,840
Speaker 1: but those those might be very different than a buck

382
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,640
Speaker 1: that shows up in March and sheds zanndler. For example,

383
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 1: there's a deer I've been hunting and watching for a

384
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,639
Speaker 1: couple of years now that he shows up on this

385
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,440
Speaker 1: property like the first week in September, right when when

386
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: the velvet comes off, he relocates that fall range defined property.

387
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:25,199
Speaker 1: What do you mean, like like you give it an

388
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 1: acreage like what you're talking about. So there's a property

389
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 1: in mid Michigan that I hunt that is a nine

390
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,159
Speaker 1: d acre farm that I have permission to hunt on,

391
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 1: so small, relatively small like small farm. Yeah, yeah, I

392
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 1: mean it mean it's all relative, right, Um. I mean,

393
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 1: like like like in Michigan, when I live in Michigan

394
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,480
Speaker 1: and we were hunting, we hunted a lot of like

395
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 1: working family farms that were big enough to support you know,

396
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,199
Speaker 1: a family. There's a lot of farms in the range

397
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 1: of of three to four acres in the area up

398
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 1: man by us. At least, everything's getting fractured, smaller and

399
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,919
Speaker 1: smaller and smaller properties. I mean, it's all forties and

400
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: eighties these days. Almost as when I say, um, so

401
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,680
Speaker 1: I feel somewhat um fortunate to have ninety acres to

402
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 1: hunt on there. Um it gives me enough to work

403
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 1: with half of its open field, so you can't do

404
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 1: much with that, but then the other half has some

405
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 1: cover and stuff. Dude, I'm not dogging on having ninety acres.

406
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 1: That's fantastic. Yeah, I'm just trying to clarify for people

407
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 1: who don't really deal in acreages in their head. We're

408
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 1: talking about when you point that out a couple of

409
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 1: days ago. That's so funny to hear me talk about

410
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,920
Speaker 1: properties when hunting out west. That's something you guys don't

411
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,880
Speaker 1: think about it at all. But yeah, I think that's

412
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 1: everyone that I hunt with and around. That's how you work.

413
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 1: I've got permission on two properties, or I've got this

414
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: property that property that you can hunt and you have

415
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,919
Speaker 1: to um cherish those because they're fleeting getting permission. They

416
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 1: can you can lose it quick. You can get kicked

417
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,199
Speaker 1: off a property, like we joked about. Um and they

418
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 1: sell it off from under her or some little some

419
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: little cousin. Yeah, and then that happens. Cousins are the

420
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: bane of hunters man, because every d of the owns property.

421
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 1: It's inevitable. They got some damn cousin who eventually is

422
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 1: gonna come around. I want to tap into his birthright

423
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: and boot you off the property. But you got a

424
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: ninety acre property, and then you have freedom to roll

425
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 1: them there. But in all the surrounding properties you might

426
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: not be able to. Whatever happens there is someone else's business. Yeah. Yeah,

427
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: And I try to get permission as many places as

428
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 1: I can, you know, to increase your flexibility and your

429
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 1: options and stuff. So in some places I have permission

430
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 1: on multiple property, someplaces just a tiny little piece here there.

431
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: But in this case you have, you have permission on

432
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: a ninety surrounded by other landowners. Um, and there was

433
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,360
Speaker 1: a buck of interest. Buck of interest. And yeah, he

434
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 1: he shows up in September, He hangs out till January

435
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 1: and then he disappears. But I don't understand what you mean,

436
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 1: like shows up from where? Like how far away? Could

437
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: it possibly be? Not a mile or two? I've I've

438
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: heard and seen examples of a mile or two. Yeah,

439
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 1: it could be. It could be just on the other

440
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: side of your six or forty acre block. Um So,

441
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: I know like in some cases, like in this case,

442
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: I a neighbor, a sort of distant neighbor that I

443
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 1: keep in communication with, has gotten summer trail cameras with

444
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: this buck, but I've never seen him before, gotten pictures

445
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 1: in the summer, but then he sees him almost never

446
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 1: during the fall. I see him all the time during

447
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: the fall. Do you think he's moving there because of

448
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 1: because of something going on with agricultural timing or do

449
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 1: you think it has something to do with him prep

450
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: and coming in because he's fixing to mate some doughs.

451
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 1: I can't necessarily put my finger on because you know,

452
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: the crops are rotating every year. So it's not like

453
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: he's only going over there on years when it's a

454
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: soybean here, and then he comes over on mine when

455
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: it's a soybean. Hear in my on on the property

456
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,640
Speaker 1: I can hunt there, so it's not necessarily related to that.

457
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: Um you know, a lot of a lot of times

458
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 1: bucks will prefer to summer in areas with more mature

459
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: cover and stuff because when they've got those big velvet antlers,

460
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: they're not necessarily wanting to get in the thick, nasty

461
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 1: stuff that they nest that they would and then later

462
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: in the fall. So a lot of times you're gonna

463
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: see mature bucks in the summer and like habitatic where

464
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: I'm at, they might bed and hang out in areas

465
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: of big mature tim stands that are close to like

466
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,719
Speaker 1: a soybean field or something good summer nutrition. And then

467
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 1: once you get into September two stosteronees rising valvet comes off.

468
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,199
Speaker 1: They start relocating to these fall ranges where number one,

469
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 1: there's better fall cover because once those leaves come down,

470
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: they require a different cover. And then number two, they

471
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 1: want to go where there's going to be more does

472
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: because of course that time periods coming up the rut,

473
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 1: but they want to establish their own space from other

474
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 1: bucks and they need space. How old this dear that

475
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: you're looking at? This buck should be five and a

476
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: half this year, which in Michigan doesn't happen. Yeah, no doubt.

477
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 1: I have found that the older of the deer gets,

478
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: the older of the buck gets, the less he moves

479
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: tighter core range. Yeah, I've seen it, heard the same,

480
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: what do you feel as a deer's core range? Like

481
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: how much? Um? I should say what you feel because

482
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: it's known now because the tracking data, it's like it's

483
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: not like intuition anymore, like like how much space does

484
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: a white tailed deer you use? So I am going

485
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 1: to get this specific numbers wrong here, But there's a

486
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: home range and a core range or kind of terminology

487
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: that's thrown around. The home range is something like where

488
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: that buck spends about sevent that let me take it back, Yeah,

489
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: about seventy of his movements are going to be within

490
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: that home range, and that can be like three hundred

491
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: six thousand acre or something like that, like a relatively

492
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: large area where he might at some point in time

493
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: turn up. Yeah. But then there's that core range whereas

494
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: he's spending the very mostly that's the most concentrate amount

495
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: of his movement, and that can be forty acres so

496
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: much tighter area where he's betted most of the time,

497
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 1: where he's gonna be feeding most of the time. But

498
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 1: then there are those these four ways, Like it's it's

499
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: well proven, especially during the rut, that bucks and even

500
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: does will take these extended fourays randomly mile two out

501
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: of their core range, seemingly at random, possibly following a

502
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: dough or different things like that, and then they'll return

503
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: back to that core, you know, a week later or something.

504
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: It's always kind of add something it's interesting to add. Uh,

505
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: just sort of compare it to what the Arizona guys

506
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: see with their white tails, because it's so much more open, right,

507
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 1: and they get to sort of experience what you're talking

508
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: about through their binoculars at two miles away. You know.

509
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: We talked to some guys that killed box that they've

510
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: seen like sleeping underneath the same cactus or same oak tree,

511
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: you know, dozens of days, you know, like and just

512
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: they don't move. Sometimes these boxes live in one little

513
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 1: bitty canyon, you know, and sleep under the same tree.

514
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 1: There's a story we heard about a desert white tail.

515
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 1: You might remember the details, Johnnie. Someone someone in our

516
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: circle um of associates had found a desert white tailor

517
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 1: a CU's deer under a tree and it was a big,

518
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: nice bucket. It wasn't seasoned, and it had distinctive antlers.

519
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 1: And then they looked for it and looked for it

520
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: and looked for it. Over the next several years, is

521
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: this right. They could never find it, and then one

522
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: day they found it again laying under the tree. Just

523
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: was there probably like maybe it was just in that

524
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: little pocket the whole time. But yeah, but what they

525
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: talked about, these guys are hunt CUSI a lot because

526
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: you because you're looking at it. It's like like in

527
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: the Midwest, all white of activities like hidden from view,

528
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: you know, and you have to do all the stuff.

529
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: But like out there where it's open, Yeah, you can

530
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: get back and just observe the whole thing. They talk

531
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: about his glass up a big buck, finding his like

532
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: identifying his little zone, and then just finding a little

533
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: sniper's perch somewhere like in the vicinity of his zone.

534
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: And then you just lay there for a couple of

535
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: days waiting for him to do his and you just

536
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: like peeking in on it, you know, which isn't the

537
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: luxury you have now in flat flat timbered brushy country.

538
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: I will point out though, to your point, you're honest

539
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: store of at those core and home ranges in the

540
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 1: amount of movement, even a white tail in Midwest or

541
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: Northeast that is very habitat dependent too. So I mean,

542
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: if you're in an area where they have to travel

543
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: much farther distances to get between decent food and good

544
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: security cover, it can be much larger. But I think

545
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: in an area where it's evenly dispersed cover, food, water, etcetera.

546
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: I think those numbers tend to be in that range.

547
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: So the buck you're talking about, the buck that got

548
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: to be five and a half years old, how did

549
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: he get to be five and a half years old? Like?

550
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: How is he avoided getting shot four times? So when

551
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: just every bucket shot or not everybody, every buck of

552
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: bench she gets hit by a car, killed by coyotes,

553
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: shot by a gun, or just whatever other accidents befall

554
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: tangled up in a woven wire fence like I've seen

555
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: it quite a number of times over the years. Like

556
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: just stuff happens to him. Yeah, so I think a

557
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: lot of luck, right, I mean, because all those things

558
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: you listed up fences, cars, coyotes, none of that stuff

559
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: has happened yet. But outside of luck, I think two things.

560
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: Number One, he has a very tight core range like

561
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: he I've never had a buck that I've hunted and

562
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: observed that is so habitual in a small area that

563
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: he uses like I during the hunting season. Because of

564
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: how this property lays out. There's a big hill up

565
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: towards the front of it that I can sit on

566
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: and I can look down over. I can actually see

567
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: a decent ways into this area some fields, and you

568
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: can actually see into this brush you like multiflora rose

569
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: type stuff that great cover and tall grass. But from

570
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: high I can see down into it. And so you

571
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: guys ever chase cotton tails down that multiflora rolls because

572
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: that's on a neighboring property, but I can see it

573
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: um and that buck during the hunting season is there

574
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: almost every day. I mean, he stakes stays in a

575
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: very small are so I know he's possibly gonna come

576
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: feed on the property I can hunt. He's gonna bed

577
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: just over the edge into the thick stuff. And then

578
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: if I hunt, you know, one of these one or

579
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: two stands where I can see that area, I can

580
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: almost almost guarantee you I'm going to see him. Our

581
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: dudes hunting that property too, not often. So that's the

582
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: thing we've got going is that there's a hunter there

583
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: that doesn't go in very often, so he has kind

584
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: of sanctuary there on that property most of the year.

585
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: And then on the property I can hunt. I'm very

586
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: very careful about how I hunt it and one I

587
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: hunt it. So he's got kind of a two property

588
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: section there that's almost hunter hunting pressure free that he

589
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: can roam around. And so he's got that going for him.

590
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: Are you friendly with the other guy? Yes? He is

591
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: he a wearing this buck also? Um? Yes, Now he

592
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: doesn't know. We haven't talked about to the degree I'm

593
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: obsessed with this buck. Yeah, he might be aware, like,

594
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: oh I heard there was a big buck back there.

595
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: That's what a lot of people think of it, but

596
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: they don't think of it like what is it actually

597
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: up to? Yeah? Yeah, so so but yeah, we we've

598
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: like had drinks together and I mentioned, oh, there's this

599
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: nice buck that I see every once in a while.

600
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: And so he's on board with the idea of let's

601
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: let's just let's let dear get bigger and stuff. Yes, yes, yes,

602
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: I think he's not quite um as serious about as

603
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: I am. But we've talked about in the past and

604
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: it sounds like he's not interested in shooting a year

605
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: and a half old bucks and stuff. So there's a

606
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: couple of different people I've I've I had to meet

607
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: everyone I can in the area, and most of them

608
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: want to see you know, bucks get a little bit

609
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: of age on him, so that's a good thing. In

610
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: the general area, there's a handful propers where they don't

611
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: do that, a couple of propers where they do. Um.

612
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: But then the second or the third thing, I guess

613
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: that has allowed this buck to get to that point.

614
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: And maybe I'm gonna take too much credit for myself,

615
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: but I've chosen not to kill him. Um. So the

616
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: very first year I saw him, I saw him the

617
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: night before, the night before opening day of bow season

618
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: in Michigan, and he was a nice three and a

619
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: half year old buck. Was the best looking buck I

620
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: had seen on the property that year, and at that

621
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: point I was I was interested in shooting at three

622
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: and a half yield there in Michigan because that's still

623
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: hard to find two. So he was a buck that

624
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: I would shoot. But opening night came in, a different

625
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: buck came and I killed that deer, and so I decaid,

626
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna kill this other deer now because I've

627
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: already taken one off this property. So I was just

628
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: gonna shoot those the rest of the season. So he

629
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: got he got a free pass the rest of that year.

630
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: I had him within bow range later in the season

631
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: and chose not to shoot him. Last year. Um, he'd

632
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: be a four year old, and again I was seeing

633
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: him a lot, learned a lot about him from the

634
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: past year. So I definitely wanted to shoot him last year.

635
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: Had I saw him with my own eyes twenty seven

636
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: times during the season. Last year, UM had him Yeah

637
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: crazy right, UM had a shot at him at forty

638
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: yards one evening, but it was like right at last night,

639
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,719
Speaker 1: and I just didn't feel comfortable taking a shot in

640
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: those conditions. Oh, but you would have shot him last year.

641
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: I would have shot him last year. How many have

642
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: so last year he probably would have been like a

643
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: hundred mid one one thirty eight pointer. Four year old

644
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: is a four year old, UM, which is a really

645
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: good Michigan buck um. But so he had all these

646
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: encounters earlier in the season. Gun season comes and I

647
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: was like, you know, I think I couldn't pull it off.

648
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: He's probably gonna killed during gun season. You know, I

649
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: made you made peace of that reality, Like I had

650
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: an awesome experience with this year. He's probably gone. But

651
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: lo and behold, December shows up, he's still alive, and

652
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: something like clicked in my mind, and like early of

653
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: December when I realized he made it through all October,

654
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: he made it through all of November in the rut

655
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: and gun season, and I kind of realized, Wow, this

656
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: deer could actually make it another year. Um, and I

657
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: had already I'd already killed two bucks. I'd already killed

658
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: two bucks last year and several does. And I realized

659
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: I don't need to fill another tag. I don't need

660
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: to kill this buck. He probably could make it the

661
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: next year. And I've just come like it's been a

662
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: very unique thing to be able to watch it here.

663
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: Over two years, I've become, you know, so invested in

664
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: like this experience, in this interaction with this deer, that

665
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: I kind of got to the point where I was like,

666
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: you know what I'd like to I'd like to see

667
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: if he'll be around next year. Yeah. But as a

668
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: writer at this point, as a writer, you almost can't

669
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: kill it, some bitch, at this point, you gotta be

670
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: like the story would be. And there he was, And

671
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: I had this chance. You ever see the movie The

672
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: Golden Seal. No, there he was. I had a chance.

673
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: And then just like you ever see Uh Deer Hunter, what,

674
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I know I should. I saw The

675
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: hun five times by the time I was thirty. Vietnam movie.

676
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: You don't know like I've heard of it. I just

677
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: hadn't seen it. It's boys in Pennsylvania grew up in

678
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: the in the mining world. Every year they hunt, they know,

679
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 1: they go up and hunt the mountains every year, and

680
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: they go off to Vietnam. Um one of them in

681
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: the Green Berets. They wind up in a prison camp.

682
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 1: Two of them wind up in the prison camp together.

683
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: The VC used them to make bats on Russian Roulette.

684
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 1: They get deeply damaged. Come home. Robert de Niro uh

685
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: goes up back hunting with his friends. Uh. For some

686
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: weird reason of red stag comes out. Uh. The movies

687
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 1: they always you know, you always fine in American movies

688
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: there has got red stags in them, like they did.

689
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: They make that mistake and last in the Mohican know

690
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: who made the movie definitely is not a wild lef.

691
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: So stay comes out. But the nero uh doesn't shoot

692
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: it steady starts, you know, He's like it's over, it's over,

693
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 1: and doesn't shoot the Golden Seal it's a very valuable seal.

694
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: And you say seal. Are we talking what kind of seal? Seal?

695
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: I don't know a ring seal. I can't rather it

696
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 1: was when I was a kid, So it's an animal

697
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: gets crack at it. Yeah, dude finally gets crack at it.

698
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 1: The size not to take the shot. He's like, Noah,

699
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 1: I can't do it. So I think, now this buck,

700
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: when you get the chance, you gotta be like, let

701
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: him walk off into the sunset, man, because don't you

702
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: think you know him too well now to shoot him? Well,

703
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: I mean it's definitely getting that. I've got nothing your dog.

704
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,959
Speaker 1: I wouldn't shoot a dog. I would shoot is this deer?

705
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: After all of these years of interactions, how are you

706
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: gonna then go jab an arrow into him? I know

707
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: it's a really weird paradox um, dude, because because you're

708
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: a percent right after the movie and in the end,

709
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: he's like, ma'am, look at his face, he's gonna pull

710
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:07,359
Speaker 1: back and shoot that year having your socks, Doug, I'm

711
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: wearing my comfy shoes without socks, dude, post hunt, let

712
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: him let him out there and m toes out. So

713
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: now I'm interested in this buck. Uh he's going to

714
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: get where exactly is all My friends threatened to do

715
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: that too. Not Uh so he continues to be in

716
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: eight or is. He's starting to get some junkers so

717
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 1: up to this point, really so I have that's fine,

718
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 1: that's fine. I'm trying to get some heavy ship here

719
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: right him finally take he got his stickers. Well, so,

720
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: so he is a he is a tight and tall

721
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: eight pointer. He has been that the last two years.

722
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: He's just gotten heavier every year. But I don't know

723
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: what he looks like this year because I haven't seen

724
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: haven't seen him because he's on the because he's on

725
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: the instry place. So I saw he's gonna show up,

726
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: You don't, I don't so right right about a car

727
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: right about now is when he uses shows out. So

728
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: there's still a lot of this is not a done

729
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: deal yet. Oh no, it's not done deal. But in

730
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: December he made it through the hunting season. He made

731
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: it all the way through March. I saw him in

732
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: March still carrying think so you you don't know, I

733
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: don't know. There was there's he's not walking under your

734
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: tree stand every night, right, not yet? But while starting

735
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: right about now. He usually starts to never found a chet?

736
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: What have you name? What's his name? Don't tell me

737
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a name. He has a name. He

738
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: has a name. That's what his white tailed guys do know.

739
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: You saw me name it? Care? Yeah, you named one

740
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: snow angels, so I won't be ashamed at all of Well,

741
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: I named him snow king, snow angela snowflake. He picked

742
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: up a lot of names, all sort of based off

743
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: of snow thing. Did uh? What does his name? You

744
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: don't want to tell me, I will tell you. And

745
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: I know it does sound ridiculous to some people from outside,

746
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 1: but no, it's an efficiency thing is It's an efficient

747
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: That's all it is. Yeah, because of game stuff, L

748
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: says lhol Fabio. We do it with a hint of

749
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: um um sarcasm sarcasm. But I think everyone at this

750
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: point does with a hint of sarcasm. Almost everyone does

751
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: with hin sarcas because there's some outlandish names out there. Yeah,

752
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: but I mean, what am I gonna do for three years? Oh?

753
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: You know that one eight pointer that I've seen twenties

754
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: seven times? Well, I did try to I did try

755
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: to dub a carib but we're looking at that one

756
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: Caribo way over there. Yes he did, but it just

757
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: was cumbersome, and so we settled on snow Angel. So

758
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: this buck I refer to as holy Field because he's

759
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: got a chunk missing out of his ear, so it

760
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: was a natural fit. And uh and yeah, hopefully he'll

761
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: be there when I get back to Dude, I'm gonna

762
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,439
Speaker 1: think so much less of you if you jab an

763
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: arrow into this deer after all of this time together.

764
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: But on balance, I'd be really disappointed if you get

765
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: if you get the opportunity. But you know what, here's

766
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: here's no way looking at it. He's walking dead. What

767
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: do you mean he's gonna get killed? Like, yeah, he's

768
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: just like he's at the end of his time on Earth.

769
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: It's it's five and a half by someone or something. Yes,

770
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 1: it was interesting though last year, so I have a podcast,

771
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 1: so I talked about all these things with my own

772
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: audience a lot, and so the story of holy Field

773
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: has become like this long running thing that all these

774
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,760
Speaker 1: people are following. And so last year when I decided,

775
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think I don't want to shoot him.

776
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 1: This year, um, and I explained, I had a really

777
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,280
Speaker 1: lengthy conversation all you know, going through my thought process

778
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: and and why I decided I didn't want to do that.

779
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: There was a in an incredibly passionate response from a

780
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: lot of people. A lot of people are like, I

781
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: totally get it, And then a lot of people, I

782
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: can't believe you're not gonna shoot it. You're letting us down,

783
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: Like kill that damn buck what we want to like

784
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: someone else is gonna kill They wanted a resolution, Yeah,

785
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: they want a resolution to the story. But you said

786
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 1: it was pretty equal, though you had other people that

787
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: were like, oh, I'd say it was. It was like,

788
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: totally get what you're saying. But then there was a

789
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: very loud and passionate ten percent that wants that dear

790
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: dead UM just to see just yeah, like you said, resolution,

791
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: like they have their story wrapped up. Like there's a

792
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: lot of people that feel like they're living vicariously through

793
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: this experience, Like and because it's been such a consistent

794
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: thing we talked about UM and some people are probably

795
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: just so sick and tired of me talking about it.

796
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: I just want to move on to something new. You know,

797
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: what's refreshing about you? I like about you One of

798
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: the things is that the there's sort of these national

799
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: standards in big bucks, right where people sort of like,

800
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: what is an acceptable big giant buck is set by

801
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 1: like very specific regions that just for a multitude of reasons,

802
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: are able to produce genuine, big, huge giant bucks, right,

803
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: Like big huge giant box used to like for a

804
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: while it was like Alberta, right, That's where big bucks

805
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: came from, and then it woant not be in that

806
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: certain place. Is like certain places in Illinois and Iowa

807
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 1: started like cranking out big bucks, and they would set

808
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,919
Speaker 1: sort of the national standard of what's a big buck.

809
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: So if you're gonna put a buck on like the

810
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: cover of a magazine, bucks on the covers of magazines

811
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: are oftentimes not even real bucks you'll have. There are

812
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: magazines in existence that's who have an editorial stance against

813
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: the captive servant industry. So they have an editorial stance

814
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: against pen raised deer and canned hunts, yet they adorn

815
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: their own covers with pen raised bucks. And it creates

816
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: the same way that you hear and I'm I'm attuned

817
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: to this now that I have a daughter, the same

818
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 1: way that you hear that there's a standard of beauty

819
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,240
Speaker 1: put forth by the fashion industry and by the media

820
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: that is unachievable by most women who don't have the

821
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 1: time and money to devote to their appearance. Where we

822
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: would create like a beauty standard. I mean, you know,

823
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: I'm aware this. This doesn't keep me up at night,

824
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: but it's the thing people talk about, the same thing

825
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: happens with bucks, right, But you have like you, for

826
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: whatever reason, don't feel that you're able to look and

827
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: be like, well, what is like good for the area?

828
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: Like what is a big buck kind of for a

829
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: normal guy hunting normal kind of little ninety acre parcels

830
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,959
Speaker 1: of land in a heavily hunted area and celebrate those

831
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: deer without feeling that you need to go down and

832
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: and and you go down to Texas to a high

833
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 1: fence place to enter into the real white tail guy world.

834
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think that one of the um one

835
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,720
Speaker 1: thing that has come out of the deer hunting media

836
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: world has been just the setting of unrealistic expectations for people,

837
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 1: because if you watch TV, all you see are these

838
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: gigantic bucks being killed so easily, it seems every single

839
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: time you watch a show. But they're an Aisle or

840
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: Illinois or Kansas and they're hunting tightly managed thousand acre

841
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: it's just thing that people can't relate to. But then

842
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: you get people, even especially maybe newer hunters, that watch

843
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: that stuff. That's their only way of establishing in context

844
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: for what is good or what I'm supposed to do.

845
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: So then they start hunting and they're thinking like, yeah,

846
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 1: I shoot a buck like that, and they get disappointed

847
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: and the frustrated they hang it out like apologetic about

848
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: their deer all the time, which is that's like the

849
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: really painful part to me is when people like send

850
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: you pictures like yeah, it's just a little one, you know,

851
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: But I'm like, dude, don't be like so disrespectful to

852
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: the animals. Man. You know, I think any animal you kill,

853
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: I mean should be celebrated and respected, and that is awesome.

854
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: I think everybody needs to set their own goals for

855
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: what that experience, for what experience they want. So for me,

856
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: you know, I like to target mature bucks because I

857
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: want a certain experience out of that hunting season. If

858
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 1: I were shooting the first year I saw my hunting

859
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 1: season be done, it would be an evening and evening

860
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: event um so so out of my hunting experience, I

861
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 1: of course want me. I also want a lengthy experience.

862
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: I want to be out there for a long period

863
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: of time. I want to be learning and observing and

864
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 1: interacting with these animals. I want to challenge um. And

865
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: you know, hunting mature buck allows that whole thing to happen,

866
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: and I enjoy that chess match. I enjoy whether it

867
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: be a situation like this where I hunt one single

868
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: property and learn a specific buck like that is a

869
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: really interesting, unique way to engage with like with an animal.

870
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: And then I also enjoy the challenge of, like going

871
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:27,959
Speaker 1: to a brand new place. I don't know anything there,

872
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: and I just enjoy the challenge of trying to learn

873
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: that property and learn what's happening here, How can I

874
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: interact with how can I set up and kill a

875
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: deer here? There's something really cool about all these different things.

876
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: But that buck, this buck you've been watching for these

877
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 1: three years, is that right? For three years? You've been

878
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: aware of him for three years. This buck you've been

879
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: watched for three years, he knows so intimately, and he's

880
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: kind of in the autumn of his life. Whether you

881
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: give him or not. He's in the autumn of his

882
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: life all that. That's something bitch, still wouldn't make the

883
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,280
Speaker 1: cover of a magazine. No, No, you're not even close.

884
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: Like why is that? Okay, I don't mean that socially,

885
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: which is what let's explore it. Socially. It won't make

886
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: the cover of the magazine because it doesn't meet sort

887
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: of the national thing, sort of the the national somewhat

888
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,720
Speaker 1: false notion of what a big buck is supposed to look. Correct,

889
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 1: that's a social aspect. But why is it that that

890
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: deer could be five and a half years old and

891
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: be that big. But a deer from Buffalo Connie, Wisconsin,

892
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,800
Speaker 1: that's five and a half years old, you're gonna be

893
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: able fit that deer's antlers inside that Buffalo County deer's antlers.

894
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 1: So there's two high level things going on there. One

895
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 1: would be habited nutrition and one would be genetics. Um.

896
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: So this buck just doesn't have the genetics to develop

897
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: into a gigantic deer. Um, he just hears what he is. Gigantic.

898
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: Gigantic antler deer are very rare. I mean, even in

899
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: places like Buffalo County, they're still relatively rare compared to

900
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: the average um. So most mature bucks, probably even in

901
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: the best places in the in the country, are still

902
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: going to be you know, a five six year old

903
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 1: buck with great habitat nutrition maybe would only be hundred

904
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 1: and forty. So they don't all in those places. All

905
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: old bucks aren't huge, not all. It's it's always a

906
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 1: bell curve, right, so there's always gonna be that average.

907
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: You know, most of your bucks maybe at five or six,

908
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: might be hundred. Remember when we were in Texas, in

909
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: the amount of like cold bucks that that manager was

910
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: shooting that they were, they were in that range. They

911
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:35,879
Speaker 1: were hundred forty bucks, but he was shooting him for

912
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: a couple of reasons. One, they weren't gonna get big.

913
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 1: But by taking them all out along with hundreds of dose,

914
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: he was leaving more habitat, more nutrition for you know,

915
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: the ones that they're really trying to An interesting thing

916
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: that that that dude brought up is talk about the stress, right,

917
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: just less competition with the other dear. He felt that

918
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: by and this guy's this guy manages an extremely large

919
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: property for some fairly wealthy individuals, and his mandate is

920
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: to produce to have this giant property more than ten

921
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: times the size of the property you're talking about it.

922
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: I believe um, he's supposed to produce every year two

923
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:27,280
Speaker 1: gigantic bucks. That's his mandate, and he's a full time

924
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 1: manager on this place to create two gigantic bucks. And

925
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: his efforts to create two gigantic gigantic bucks. Once he

926
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 1: identifies some candidates, they go in and start and systematically

927
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: remove the competitors of those candidates to give those competitors

928
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 1: less stress, because stress inhibits antler growth. I would concur

929
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 1: I think that falls into your habitat and or just

930
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: herd dynamics. So this buck feels like he's just lucky,

931
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: but meanwhile he's just being watched and coddled. But you

932
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: would think until you talk to the guy, but then

933
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: he talks about this that even with all of that,

934
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: there are bucks that vanish, and there are bucks that

935
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,359
Speaker 1: all of a sudden that you see him once and

936
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: never see him again. The mystery, like there's still a

937
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of mystery as much as he's like just

938
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: actively doing this, Like one day one shows up on

939
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: a camera and you never see him again. But and

940
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: that's some thick, thick country. I mean you want to

941
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: talk about Michigan being thick. I mean, this is the

942
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: country that there's places where you just don't even go

943
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,280
Speaker 1: into it because it's so thorny and nasty. Yeah, everything's

944
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,240
Speaker 1: like twelve feet high. Once you get up on a ladder,

945
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 1: so holy ship, you can see a long ways, but

946
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 1: you can talk on the ground. Yeah, I just can't

947
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: see anything. But so so that the genetics deal and

948
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: then the nutrition, yeah, I think and and and then

949
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: you made a good good soil porcelo soil, and then

950
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: what what kind of available food sources and everything. So

951
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: of course deer that live in agricultural country are going

952
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: to have terrific amounts of food and protein that things

953
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: they need to grow big anglers um. And then soil

954
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: does make a big difference too, So that's why you

955
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: see such tremendous production of big angler deer along like

956
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: the Mississippi River Corridor and all that stuff going on

957
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: there by you doug um. So those types of things

958
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 1: do lead to these genetic um or these I don't

959
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: know if you gonna call it freaks, but these huge

960
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: antler deer that you're just not going to see as

961
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: often in other places. So how I'm back on your

962
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: deer again. So how big of a deer, how big

963
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 1: of how big of a body is He's a tanker,

964
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:43,479
Speaker 1: big old body, just a huge girthy chest. His neck

965
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 1: like seamlessly goes right into his shoulders and chest. And

966
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: when he walks around, he's got those curls on his neck. Yeah,

967
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: foot on the floor over there, and he's got the

968
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: sagging belly. Um. So I mean yeah, I mean, I

969
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: love just a big bodied, mature buck. I mean. And

970
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: we're talking a lot about inches and antlers and stuff,

971
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: and I just want to make sure antlers are cool, right,

972
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: and we enjoy big antler deer there neat to see.

973
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 1: They're where, they're rare, they're special because, like we just

974
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: talked about, large antler deer are are not the the

975
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 1: average thing here to see. So there to be, in

976
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: my opinion, there to be appreciated and valued. And it's

977
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: neat to hunt. But that's not all there is. Like

978
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 1: there's such an antler craze in the white tailed world.

979
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: So many people are fixated on that that's been around

980
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: for for for But I just always want to be

981
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: careful to make sure that even though I might talk

982
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 1: about it in a conversation like that, that's not all

983
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 1: there is. There's so much more to it. Like so,

984
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought body size and different things like that,

985
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 1: or or history and experience of the deer or a

986
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: set of circumstances. I mean, all those things make that

987
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 1: hunt that deer uh special. Yeah, I'm glad you brought

988
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: that up. Go ahead. Well, I's just gonna say, you know, uh,

989
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 1: you folks talk about trophy country and trophy hunts and

990
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff, and and and I think it's

991
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 1: the same thing with white tails. My my favorite hunts

992
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: are the ones that we've had these great stories about,

993
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: you know, a group of people hunting together, you know,

994
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 1: we get this dear or or like your story where

995
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: you watched him for a period of time and and uh,

996
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 1: you know, rather than and he came out and well

997
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: I never saw him before I shot him. And it's

998
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: not much of a story, you know, it's not it's

999
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: not that it's not a great deer or anything like that,

1000
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 1: but I think the story really makes the you know,

1001
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: and maybe the suffering or sort of like we just

1002
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: did you know, we could have shot a caribou hundred

1003
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: yards from our camp. But um, we went out and

1004
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 1: went through a full experience. I mean each one of

1005
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: us did some more than others. But I don't think that, uh,

1006
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: I want to get back to like the aunt, the

1007
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 1: scoring system, and what people mean when they say a

1008
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 1: hundred forty inches of altland. But I'll point out that

1009
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: is a good story if all of a sudden do

1010
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: you didn't know about pops out because the uh, the woods,

1011
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 1: there's supposed to be an element that's supposed to be

1012
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: it's nice, and there's an element of the unknown and

1013
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: the element of the surprise and the element of mystery. Yeah,

1014
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: I've it like it doesn't like I don't think it

1015
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: needs to be that in order for it to be

1016
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 1: legit and needs to have like this agricultural overtone where

1017
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 1: you're like raising this deer up and taking care of him.

1018
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: I think there's lots of different ways that can be neat.

1019
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 1: I mean, like my experience I'm having with this deer

1020
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: I think is unique and like super valuable and I'm

1021
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:29,800
Speaker 1: really enjoying it. But I think to your point to

1022
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 1: showing up in a new place and seeing that deer

1023
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: for the first time, that that that moment when you

1024
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: first see this deer in the shock, like, oh my gosh,

1025
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,280
Speaker 1: this is gonna happen, Like that can be really special

1026
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: to um. But I think, you know, it's just different.

1027
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: I like to surprise, you know, um one of the

1028
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: on our farm. I used to do a lot more

1029
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 1: trail camera stuff, and I still do a lot of

1030
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: it on client properties, but I don't I haven't had

1031
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: trail cameras out at all this year, and you know,

1032
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 1: very very few even at the end of the year

1033
00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 1: last year in our property. Words I had in my

1034
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: other other people's property because they're that's what I'm supposed

1035
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: to be doing online sort of like I don't know,

1036
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,839
Speaker 1: kind of like that element of surprise. Also, you hear

1037
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: about this popping up more and more like the white

1038
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: Tail community, like that exact notion being that kind of

1039
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 1: just like some of us we get overloaded on our

1040
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 1: cell phones, so like you need to purge it for

1041
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: a while and you just you know, take off your

1042
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:20,359
Speaker 1: Facebook app or whatever so you're not on there all

1043
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:22,399
Speaker 1: the time. It's just too much. I know a lot

1044
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: of people that I feel the same way about trail

1045
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: cameras are I know what lost the mystery of it

1046
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: you know everything or no, the deer that you're ever

1047
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 1: going to see. So I can I can totally understand

1048
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: that I enjoy using trail cameras. But at the same time,

1049
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 1: I do like the idea of of that mystery, that

1050
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 1: surprise excitement. So I know, guys that are starting to

1051
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: get rid of them, Yeah, the trail I like trail cams. Like,

1052
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 1: there's a few things I like about him. One it

1053
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: just you want to becoming more educated, right, You're like,

1054
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: no more, you have more information. You know more about

1055
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 1: animals and how they move and how they interact with

1056
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: their environment. It's a valuable asset to a lot. Tro

1057
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: Cam images have like a surreal beauty to them that

1058
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:08,879
Speaker 1: it's just just like that, just the sort of the

1059
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: without the hand of man really there at the second.

1060
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:15,839
Speaker 1: Just like these like motion sensor activated images sometimes they're

1061
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: just incredible, Like it clicks at a time when a

1062
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: person wouldn't click, and the result is sometimes like stunningly

1063
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: beautiful of animals in their environment, completely unaware of any

1064
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: kind of intrusion. There's a beauty to it. Now when

1065
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: earlier market I want to step back to top of this,

1066
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 1: you're talking about hundred forty and I think a lot

1067
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 1: of people don't understand it so well. Mark's referring to

1068
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 1: is a number that comes from the Boone and Crocket Club,

1069
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,760
Speaker 1: now the Boone and Crockett Club and ORP and or popion.

1070
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 1: Let's talk about boding Crocket promitt. But Boone and Crockett

1071
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: um originated it, right, and they predate they pre date

1072
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: Pope Young by fifty years. And it's it's essentially the

1073
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: same measuring system. It's just one's bow. Ones. In the

1074
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, one wildlife populations in

1075
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: America were collapsing and near collapse and some of them gone.

1076
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: Um Theodore Roosevelt and the other number of influential conservationist

1077
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,479
Speaker 1: hunters started a group called the Boone and Crocket Club

1078
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 1: and their initial mandate, their their initial like reason for

1079
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 1: existence was to establish and push for the enforcement of

1080
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: game laws in Yellowstone was in the first places. So

1081
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: they had this idea that let's have it be that

1082
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 1: instead of the unregulated commercial slaughter of wildlife, we will

1083
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: establish bag limits and seasons and parameters under which people hunt.

1084
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 1: And that was how the Boone and Crockett Club, that

1085
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: was their initial thing. They were starting from the ground up.

1086
00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: There was nothing in place. The system of scoring that

1087
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 1: eventually came out of this was a way to catalog

1088
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: animal populations. And at the time, um, you know, you

1089
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: didn't have genetic stuff, you didn't have sophisticated aging data,

1090
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 1: and they didn't understand like tooth analysis and all this

1091
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: other kind of ship. A thing that's just very obvious

1092
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:24,720
Speaker 1: is the antlers on the males or in and bears

1093
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 1: is the general school size. And so the kind of

1094
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: way to say, like, how can we objectively measure and

1095
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 1: animals antlers in a way that is replicable where any

1096
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 1: two individuals could look at it and apply the same

1097
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 1: metrics to it. And they came up with a scoring system.

1098
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: The thinking being that if you were to score these

1099
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: things and then track these populations over time, since antlers

1100
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:57,880
Speaker 1: are a product of age and habitat, age and environment,

1101
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 1: you would be able to see long term term and

1102
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,880
Speaker 1: short term trends and antler growth and tell about the

1103
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 1: stability of a population. If you have a population, let's

1104
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: say you just there they were in conversation talk about this.

1105
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: Let's say in Colorado you have that every year Colorado

1106
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: produces ten bucks that have that score a two D

1107
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: on this measuring system. Ten meal gear box score a

1108
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: two or better on this measuring system. And then you

1109
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: realize a decade goes by and not a single buck

1110
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: comes out of Colorado scoring a two on this measuring system.

1111
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: You would look and think something is a miss in Colorado.

1112
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: Something is not there that was there once but now not.

1113
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 1: But now in addition to that, people also, well, let

1114
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: me add another thing to this. Years ago on on

1115
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 1: an island where I have a hunting and fishing shack,

1116
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: years ago, a non resons allowed to bears on that

1117
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: island every year. Then it became like a bear. Then

1118
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: it became that you have to draw an it's only

1119
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: about a fift chance of being able to get a

1120
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: bear on the island. That was because they had noticed

1121
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: a very slight but gradual decline in the average bear

1122
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 1: skull coming off of that island, and that hinted to

1123
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 1: them to the idea of over of the potential for

1124
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: over harvest, that the bears were shrinking, and they felt

1125
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 1: they were probably shrinking due to selective harvest of large animals.

1126
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: So here's where that like that information that metric ability

1127
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 1: influenced management policy. Um, but people also just use it

1128
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: and talk about it in a very fluid way, being

1129
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: like when you say that, that's what you're saying. And

1130
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: it's like a handful of measurements you take. You measure

1131
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: each like you measure the main beam and all this

1132
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 1: other ship and the scoring systems so pervasive that people

1133
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: don't even talk about times anymore. They talk about G

1134
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 1: two's and all this ship because when you fill out

1135
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: the form, there's measurements like what do the measurements look like? Yeah,

1136
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 1: you know about heart G one, two, three, four, those

1137
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: are your main times, Yeah, and you got your main

1138
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: beam lengths and your inside spread like his G two

1139
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: his right G two is this and that just because

1140
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: when you fill out the form, that line of the

1141
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 1: form is for the G two. It was funny when

1142
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 1: we were looking at our caribou, I was like trying

1143
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: to refer to a point I didn't know. Can I

1144
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 1: call us? Is this like the G Yeah? Yeah, I

1145
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: haven't looked at how you score? Could I don't know?

1146
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: But that's of marks getting at with with the score thing.

1147
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 1: But a big like I think that when I saw

1148
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: about in the national sense, like big, huge, giant white

1149
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: tailed box aren't really guarded as big, huge box until

1150
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: they get to like have one inches of antler. That's

1151
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: like the like with mule deer. It's like if I

1152
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 1: could only kill a two in buck with elk, if

1153
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 1: I can only kill four inch bull with white tails,

1154
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: it's what I think one seventy because that's boon. That's

1155
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: a booner boon and cracker buck and make the boon

1156
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 1: and cracker record record books. I mean, but again, it's

1157
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: all relative. Like a guy in New Hampshire if he

1158
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: sees a hun during fifteen or hundred buck, he should

1159
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 1: be stoked. That's an amazing buck in that area, or

1160
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: in Michigan if you've got to. If so, if you

1161
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: duck is a hoping young buck, um gross well net

1162
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 1: but um in Michigan is like a pretty nice deer

1163
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 1: hundred fifty inches a giant deer in Michigan. Um in Wisconsin.

1164
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure hundred buck where you're at, it's like it's

1165
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 1: a nice buck. I would guess, but I don't know.

1166
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: Get shot. Yeah, there's everybody will shoot that deer. But

1167
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm guessing, like if that bucks you pull

1168
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 1: up with that in the back of the pickup truck,

1169
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: and people like on nice buck. If you pull up

1170
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 1: with that buck at the buck pole and opening it

1171
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: to a gun season, there's a two hundred people swarmed

1172
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: around at taking pictures and looking at him. To what

1173
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 1: degree because of your career? To what degree do you

1174
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 1: feel like you have to go shoot Big Bucks in

1175
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 1: order to like maintain your career? Would your career exists

1176
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: if you never shot a Big Buck? So early on,

1177
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 1: I thought so, I had this pressure like the first

1178
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: few years when you know, I was trying to build

1179
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 1: this this website, in this brand everything. I thought like,

1180
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 1: I gotta kill Big Bucks, and I stressed about it

1181
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 1: every year and stuff. Won't you won't be a businessman,

1182
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 1: you won't be a white tailed guy, I think. I think, Um, now,

1183
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 1: I don't worry about that nearly as much because I

1184
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: have not staked my reputation or what I'm doing on

1185
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 1: in any sense trying to claim like I'm the best

1186
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: deer hunter out there, or I'm an expert all all

1187
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 1: of stuff. What how I communicate in in in what

1188
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 1: I do, the service I think I provide. Is I

1189
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: I am a um just voracious learner. I love to learn.

1190
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: I want to consume as much as possible. I want

1191
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 1: to talk to as many different people as possible. So

1192
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 1: I'm I'm trying to take in every different input I

1193
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 1: possibly can, and then I try to share what I learned.

1194
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,479
Speaker 1: And then I share my experiences lots of failures, lots

1195
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: of mistakes, occasional successes, and I share that real experience

1196
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: with my listeners, readers, etcetera. And I think that's much

1197
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 1: more relatable than the guy that kills a eight years

1198
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 1: buck every single year, doing it one specific way. Um

1199
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 1: So now I don't want necessarily where of course, like

1200
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 1: I need to have some credibility and they can you'd

1201
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 1: like to see that the things I'm learning and trying

1202
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: and doing are you know, paying off and that you know, okay,

1203
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,479
Speaker 1: he tried to actually talked about X resulted in why?

1204
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 1: So that content is I think just more relevant to

1205
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 1: a larger, you know group of the you know, your listeners.

1206
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 1: And I think that's where your credibility is. Talking with

1207
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 1: you about white tails. I really enjoyed the conversations, and

1208
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 1: it's your experiences and the stuff the way you're looking

1209
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:29,440
Speaker 1: at it all as the credibilities really there, and I think,

1210
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: you know, and the other thing I've done is that

1211
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,960
Speaker 1: I'm not embarrassed to share like everything, and so I've

1212
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: I've shared all sorts of failures and mistakes I've made,

1213
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 1: and that's pretty rare within the white tailed world too.

1214
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: And so like on someone at one point said like,

1215
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 1: I just love your stuff, and he's like, and I

1216
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: think it's because you've cornered the market on failure you've done.

1217
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 1: You've done a great job of sharing all the mistakes

1218
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 1: you've made. So but you know what, we all make mistakes,

1219
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 1: we all fail sometimes, just most people don't want to

1220
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 1: talk about it, and I'm I'm okay putting it out

1221
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: there and um hopefully getting as we go along. Everyone

1222
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: people have the idea that other people don't want to

1223
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 1: hear about the failures. I probably get more feedback when

1224
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 1: I like, yeah, yeah, when something bad happens, or I

1225
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 1: screw something up, like more emails and messages and stuff like,

1226
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 1: oh that happened to me too, Or I had the

1227
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: same issue but I thought it was the only one,

1228
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:21,960
Speaker 1: or I didn't. Never they talked about how to deal

1229
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 1: with it, you know. And so we've walk worked through

1230
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 1: all sorts different channels that we all experience but very

1231
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: rarely do you get to follow along with with someone

1232
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 1: else on that experience. And you could do everything right nothing,

1233
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: especially with white tails, you can do everything right, and

1234
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, that dear turns and goes away and

1235
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 1: all of that, and it's like you sit there and go,

1236
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: what did I do wrong? There? Wild animals? I think

1237
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 1: people who are trying to established some notoriety or establish

1238
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 1: some claim in hunting in order to feed a career,

1239
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 1: like a media type career and hunting. Uh. You hear

1240
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 1: of so many examples, like there's a couple every year

1241
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 1: that come up of where they wind up crossing some

1242
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 1: pretty serious legal and ethical lines in order to achieve it.

1243
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 1: For sure, how much do you know the story about

1244
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: the guy we were talking about their day from Michigan,

1245
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 1: the guy from Michigan, How well do you know? I

1246
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 1: couldn't give you all the details that I mean, give

1247
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: a sketch of it. Though. The super high level story

1248
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 1: was back in the nineties, this guy um killed this

1249
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 1: gigantic buck up in northern Michigan. It was just incredibly

1250
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: widely wide or twice in place, in a place where

1251
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 1: you just would not see a buck like that, and

1252
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 1: it was at the time. I don't remember if it

1253
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:41,040
Speaker 1: was the biggest buck killed in the state at the

1254
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 1: time where they believed it was, but I got a

1255
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: lot of notoriety. I was telling you guys. I remember,

1256
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 1: I don't know how how old I was, eight or

1257
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 1: ten or something like that at the time, but I

1258
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: even at that age, saw this picture in the newspaper

1259
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 1: and cut out the picture of this buck in the newspaper,

1260
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: put it up on my little board. Everybody saw. My

1261
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 1: dad was a score. My dad scored for uh, Pope

1262
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 1: and Young. He's he's like a certified score for Pope

1263
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 1: Young and Boone and Crockett, m U c c all

1264
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 1: that ship. So bucks flooded into our house to be scored,

1265
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 1: and I remember like just the buzz yeah or whatever

1266
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: the hell was called. And it's an impressive looking deer.

1267
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 1: I mean even still today when you see the pictures. WHOA.

1268
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 1: But eventually it came out that this was actually not

1269
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:28,120
Speaker 1: a free ranging deer. This is possibly had been raised

1270
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 1: in a pen or different you know, um questionable activities

1271
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: had been involved with the with the killing of that dear.

1272
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 1: So it wasn't legit. It was proved, you know, he

1273
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 1: didn't wasn't able to enter it officially in the record books.

1274
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 1: He was kind of ostracized because of that, you know,

1275
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 1: for a good reason. Um. Some people still today say

1276
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 1: he was actually a really good legit hunter and he'd

1277
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 1: killed many bucks in legitimate fashion. Um. But for whatever reason,

1278
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 1: whether it be ego or a desire for notoriety or

1279
01:05:57,560 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 1: something to your point, he crossed that line in as

1280
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,760
Speaker 1: if you a way and it's like there are I

1281
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 1: mean we could if we sat around, we could generate

1282
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 1: a list as long as your are man, dozens of

1283
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 1: cases where that happens. Like what is that? Do you

1284
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:14,920
Speaker 1: understand the pressure? Like have you ever been like man

1285
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 1: um wired the hunt would get a would get a

1286
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:24,200
Speaker 1: shot to the arm if if I just could or

1287
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 1: are you immune to it? I'm immune to it because

1288
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:30,959
Speaker 1: that's just like not me, Like that's not my thing. Um.

1289
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 1: But like I said, I did feel that pressure like

1290
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 1: I should be killing like mature bucks, like you need

1291
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 1: to you have some kind of credibility. Um. But I've

1292
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 1: never been like the type that's trying like I have

1293
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 1: to kill a hunter eight and sure buck or something.

1294
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be in the cover of a

1295
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 1: magazine or something with that. I just want to do

1296
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 1: something I love, share what I'm learning and help people hopefully.

1297
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:54,000
Speaker 1: So I've never been a position where I thought like

1298
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 1: that was gonna sky. I'm not doing TV or anything. Um,

1299
01:06:58,120 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 1: but I know lots and lots of people that are.

1300
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 1: And and I think it comes down to, like your

1301
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 1: like the why behind it. And so I think some

1302
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 1: people the why behind wanting a TV show or wanting

1303
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:12,960
Speaker 1: whatever it is because they want fame and fortune and

1304
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 1: attention all that kind of stuff. Um My wife has

1305
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 1: just been different and so I just haven't worried about that.

1306
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: What do you say, Uh, do you ever give advice

1307
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: to people who wish they had a job in the

1308
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 1: in the like in hunting, like hunting or fishing or whatever,

1309
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 1: Like you gotta have people come and ask you hundreds

1310
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 1: and hunters. What do you tell people? Is there an answer? Yeah?

1311
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, A couple of things. Um, you know

1312
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 1: I can speak to like content related careers because that's

1313
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 1: what I do, like the media type stuff. Um, So

1314
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 1: I would say number one, like figure out what your

1315
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 1: what whatever medium or type of thing is that you

1316
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:57,959
Speaker 1: can do, Like either you have a natural skill set

1317
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:00,520
Speaker 1: or experience in it or a passion. So are you

1318
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 1: gonna write, are you going to film? Are you going

1319
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 1: to photograph? Are you going to whatever it might be? Um?

1320
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:10,560
Speaker 1: So what's like? Okay, once you figure that out, and

1321
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,120
Speaker 1: then number two, just do it, like create stuff, like

1322
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 1: get out there, have experiences and put it out there.

1323
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:18,840
Speaker 1: So for me, when I started a blog a website,

1324
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 1: um yeah, I had no reason that people should have

1325
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 1: been reading what I had to say. I had no

1326
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 1: one knew who this Mark Kenyon guy was. Um, but

1327
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 1: I just created. So I was just constantly writing, constantly

1328
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 1: producing content. And so so my advice is number one,

1329
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:35,800
Speaker 1: pick what you what you're passionate about, what you want

1330
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: to do. Number two, do it, create it, and by

1331
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 1: doing it you get better, Like you can fine tune

1332
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 1: that craft the more you do it. But if you

1333
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:45,240
Speaker 1: sit around and thinking, wow, someday I'm going to be

1334
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 1: a photographer, but I want to wait till I've got

1335
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 1: the seven thousand dollar camera and I'm gonna wait until

1336
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: this thing and that thing, No, you just gotta get

1337
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:55,800
Speaker 1: out there with what you have, do it, fine tune

1338
01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:58,720
Speaker 1: your craft and then share it. And if you do

1339
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:00,599
Speaker 1: that enough and you continue to go oh and continue

1340
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 1: to get better. And by sharing that, I mean like

1341
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:05,719
Speaker 1: whether it be through social media or networking in person,

1342
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 1: you ustablished relationships connections. If you do all those things,

1343
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 1: and if you get better at all those things, opportunities

1344
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 1: come about. So for me with my website, I just

1345
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 1: started writing every Like when I decided I was going

1346
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:20,799
Speaker 1: to do weird Hunt, I started the website and then

1347
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 1: every single day, without fail, I was working on every

1348
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:25,599
Speaker 1: single day, like every day of the week. I had

1349
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 1: a new article. Weekends, I'd stay up, you know, late

1350
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 1: at night working on it. I worked before the day job,

1351
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:32,800
Speaker 1: I work on it after the day job. And I

1352
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 1: just was like, I'm going to keep doing it. And

1353
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:37,600
Speaker 1: then I shared on forums. I've connected with everybody I

1354
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 1: possibly on Facebook and Twitter and eventually Instagram. No, any

1355
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:44,719
Speaker 1: one of these single one things like was the reason

1356
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:47,759
Speaker 1: why I was able to do what I'm doing now.

1357
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 1: But the relentless um chipping away on all those different

1358
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:53,920
Speaker 1: things I think led to it. So those are the

1359
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: three things that I recommend to most people at very

1360
01:09:56,160 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 1: high level. It's not like some secret that I'm sharing UM,

1361
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 1: but that's that's what's worked for me. UM. And then

1362
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 1: one other piece of advice, I guess when it comes

1363
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:11,759
Speaker 1: to content his um, fine, you can't be a generalist

1364
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:14,639
Speaker 1: when you're starting out, is my my thought. So if

1365
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 1: you want to be ah, if you want to start

1366
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 1: a podcast or a website. These days, if you start

1367
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:23,559
Speaker 1: a general hunting podcast, it's hard to stand out because

1368
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 1: you can't necessarily create content that's perfect for the audience

1369
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 1: if you're just doing a little bit of this, a

1370
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 1: little with that. What I my The way I thought

1371
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 1: about things earlier was I want to be very niche

1372
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 1: because if I was very niche, I could say, Okay,

1373
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 1: this is my audience. This is a very tight slice

1374
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 1: of people that are my audience. So it was super serious, passionate,

1375
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 1: relatively young people. And if I know who that audience is,

1376
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:49,760
Speaker 1: If I'm very clear on who that audience is, it

1377
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 1: makes um my work as a content creator very easy

1378
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:54,719
Speaker 1: because I know exactly what's going to resonate with that audience.

1379
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:57,640
Speaker 1: So then because of that, I'm putting out stuff that

1380
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 1: was oh man, that's exactly what I've always wanted to see.

1381
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,519
Speaker 1: Because I'm creating content for like one guy or girl

1382
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 1: first is trying to create everything for everybody. So once

1383
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 1: you can do that then you have an ability to

1384
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 1: connect grow from there. And so since I've been able

1385
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:12,760
Speaker 1: to grow from there, now I can expand and do

1386
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:16,559
Speaker 1: different things and generalize a touch. But I think that

1387
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 1: that is a helpful UM process to go through early on.

1388
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 1: That's interesting, man, that that that part of the other

1389
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 1: ship is all pretty obvious. But that's an interesting perspective

1390
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 1: on it. I don't know that I entirely agree with it,

1391
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 1: but but I like it fair enough. What did you

1392
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:33,680
Speaker 1: first start writing about then? I mean, obviously it was

1393
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:36,160
Speaker 1: white tails, but when you were saying I'm trying to

1394
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 1: connect specifically with a small group of people, what was

1395
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 1: the So, Yeah, when I started the website, I was

1396
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:45,640
Speaker 1: like twenty one, and you know, I was you know,

1397
01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 1: at that point, I was just switching to like trying

1398
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 1: to target mature bucks and stuff. So I was writing

1399
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:54,439
Speaker 1: about my own experience. At that point, I was writing

1400
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 1: about things I read. I was writing about UM. I

1401
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 1: was trying to interview different people, like people that were

1402
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 1: established new stuff. I was trying to get them on

1403
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 1: the phone and pick their brains and share some of

1404
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 1: those experiences. I was doing gear reviews, just anything. I mean,

1405
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 1: like we were talking about earlier, I'm I was doing

1406
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:13,240
Speaker 1: something white tail related every day almost. Um, so it's

1407
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 1: the niche was white tail this sorry, let me let

1408
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:19,240
Speaker 1: me clarify. So, yes, the niche was white tail, and

1409
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 1: it was the three sixty five days a year white

1410
01:12:21,439 --> 01:12:24,400
Speaker 1: tail guy. And then again it was everything was with

1411
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 1: a little bit of an angle towards that younger generation,

1412
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:31,080
Speaker 1: So the things that my generation was interested in, and

1413
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:33,599
Speaker 1: then also the way I was communicating those things. So

1414
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 1: I was communicating with YouTube and Facebook and Twitter and

1415
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 1: you know, whatever it might be at the time. And

1416
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 1: then also different technologies and stuff. We talked a lot

1417
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 1: about so apps to help out with deer hunting or

1418
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:48,920
Speaker 1: you know, trail cameras or different things related to that.

1419
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:52,360
Speaker 1: I mean, originally that weird hunt idea in the very

1420
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:56,800
Speaker 1: beginning was like the intersection of technology with hunting and

1421
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 1: all that. It's it's kind of changed from there, but

1422
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 1: early on are the things I was tackling. So what's

1423
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 1: the what's the future being a white tail guy? The

1424
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:08,519
Speaker 1: future of being let me ask you this, what are

1425
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:12,640
Speaker 1: the like, uh, when you look at deer hunting, um,

1426
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:16,680
Speaker 1: white tail deer hunting, what's like? What's the what do

1427
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:18,360
Speaker 1: what do you when you look into a crystal ball,

1428
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:23,080
Speaker 1: what do you see for just the average whatever, like

1429
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:26,280
Speaker 1: just some new number in the future, do you imagine

1430
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 1: like what kind of you know, be recognizable? Do you

1431
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 1: think it's gonna be like seismic changes? When I think

1432
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:35,200
Speaker 1: about stuff, I'm like, I can't. I just really hired

1433
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:37,040
Speaker 1: for me to picture of the future right now with

1434
01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 1: the prospects of stuff like c w D. So I

1435
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:42,280
Speaker 1: think the last decade or so, we've kind of been

1436
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:44,360
Speaker 1: like the glory days of of white tail hunting in

1437
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:47,679
Speaker 1: a lot of places. Um, you know, herds have grown

1438
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 1: tremendously since the sixties and seventies, most places, average age

1439
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:54,439
Speaker 1: of bucks has been rising tremendously as more and more

1440
01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:57,840
Speaker 1: people are letting young bucks grow, They're paying attention to

1441
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:00,519
Speaker 1: things like her dynamics, they're trying to improve avatat or

1442
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:03,479
Speaker 1: you know, think about conservation and kind of what they're doing.

1443
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 1: So all those things have been happening for for a while.

1444
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:08,720
Speaker 1: So we're in a generally good place, like reaping the

1445
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 1: benefits of those activities, generally reaping the benefits of those activities.

1446
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:15,120
Speaker 1: So I think all those things most people would recognize

1447
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 1: as a positive trend, I think, um But to your point,

1448
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,519
Speaker 1: there are concerning things like c w D, which is

1449
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:25,240
Speaker 1: one of those deals that is such a long term issue,

1450
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 1: like the impacts in the short term for most people

1451
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 1: right now, it's beyond like what they're looking at. When

1452
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 1: we say c r D, we're talking about chronic wasting

1453
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:37,480
Speaker 1: chronic wasting disease. And we did a a very exhaustive

1454
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:40,639
Speaker 1: conversation with a c w D expert a few podcasts ago,

1455
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 1: so you can go find that if you want to

1456
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 1: catch up and what we're talk about. I don't want

1457
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:44,680
Speaker 1: to recap it all now. But yeah, so like a

1458
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:48,080
Speaker 1: do Z wildlife disease issue. So those the issues over that,

1459
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 1: and why I think a lot of people struggle with

1460
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:52,040
Speaker 1: like looking at head on and why to do something

1461
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:55,600
Speaker 1: about it, is because it doesn't necessarily have like population

1462
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,400
Speaker 1: level impacts right now that you can see and feel,

1463
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:02,760
Speaker 1: um verse is something like h D, which is a

1464
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:06,439
Speaker 1: disease of virus. Excuse me that in one year you

1465
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 1: can lose your deer herd and that's something like holy crap,

1466
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:11,840
Speaker 1: all right, that you can feel that and like wrap

1467
01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 1: your head around that. But the c w D you

1468
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 1: might not necessarily see and feel that. But as I

1469
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:19,600
Speaker 1: understand it, you know, over the course of decades, population

1470
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:22,880
Speaker 1: level impacts do start showing up. So in Wyoming, in Colorado,

1471
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:25,519
Speaker 1: where CWD has been around for a long time, they

1472
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:28,439
Speaker 1: are seeing that a significant proportion of bucks or deer

1473
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 1: and the herd are dying every year from CW. So

1474
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: I think it's quite possible that fifty years from now

1475
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 1: we will be seeing that in a lot of states.

1476
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:37,760
Speaker 1: What I when I asked that question that that's I

1477
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:39,960
Speaker 1: like your perspective on it. But when I asked that question,

1478
01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:42,960
Speaker 1: when I look at it, what I'm seeing is the

1479
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:51,600
Speaker 1: way the relationship people have with deer um, the more social,

1480
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 1: kind of spiritual relationship that people have with deer, would

1481
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 1: change if it winds up that we begin to look

1482
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 1: at deer as disease vectors. That would be a scary

1483
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:08,760
Speaker 1: situation happen if it were to happen, like a thing

1484
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 1: that I really the thing that I'm most afraid of,

1485
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 1: I'm not most afraid of of, Like like a disease

1486
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:17,040
Speaker 1: like e h. D. Let's say it's gonna come carry

1487
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 1: away sixty or se dear. I mean that happens all

1488
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 1: the time. You recover from it like it's a it's

1489
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:26,679
Speaker 1: a pretty like a natural part of our system that happens.

1490
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:30,439
Speaker 1: It's like you get these like too many deer disease

1491
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:33,760
Speaker 1: comes in White's amount, They recover, You get back up

1492
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:36,720
Speaker 1: and run. In a few years, things go on with

1493
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:40,080
Speaker 1: chronic wasting wasting disease. The thing I worry about and

1494
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:43,040
Speaker 1: hasn't thankfully it hasn't happened yet, would be that you'd

1495
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:47,439
Speaker 1: have some cases where there's irrefutable proof that a person

1496
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:50,120
Speaker 1: that would that would make the jump and then a

1497
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:54,160
Speaker 1: person would contract a fatal disease from consuming dear meat.

1498
01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 1: Like just how that would shift public perceptions of the

1499
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:02,640
Speaker 1: value of deer. And if there's a thing that you

1500
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:06,320
Speaker 1: can learn if you look at global it's just like

1501
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:11,599
Speaker 1: global politics, global wildlife issues. Wildlife thrives in places where

1502
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:14,320
Speaker 1: it has a cultural value. If it does not have

1503
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:18,760
Speaker 1: cultural value, it does not thrive. Um. The reason we

1504
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:22,800
Speaker 1: have wildlife in America and the abundance we do is

1505
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 1: because we've a fixed a tremendous amount of cultural value.

1506
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:28,880
Speaker 1: It is not here by mistake and as and if

1507
01:17:29,080 --> 01:17:34,040
Speaker 1: it becomes that that we look at dear with suspicion

1508
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:38,439
Speaker 1: Um I think it's I think it could really have

1509
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:41,599
Speaker 1: like a really alter things. And and like you being

1510
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 1: a white tail guy and you talk about like pursuing

1511
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 1: white tail guys and that's your audience. That's smart because

1512
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:51,519
Speaker 1: of big game hunters hunt white tails. So we're talking

1513
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:55,479
Speaker 1: about a major thing here, you know. Um, So that's

1514
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:59,080
Speaker 1: something that worries me a little bit for sure. Great.

1515
01:17:59,160 --> 01:18:03,479
Speaker 1: I hope that in the interim, in the next forty years,

1516
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:06,840
Speaker 1: whatever it might be, or whatever the timelines, I hope

1517
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 1: we find some types of solutions because as a a

1518
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:13,560
Speaker 1: grim situation to imagine if you're worried about if you

1519
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:16,760
Speaker 1: can't eat deer anymore, um, because not only does that

1520
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:22,160
Speaker 1: impact us as hunters, but then also if if if

1521
01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 1: you want to continue hunting. So let's say, okay, CWD

1522
01:18:25,479 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 1: is prevalent and we've all decided that there's possibilities of

1523
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:31,599
Speaker 1: a transferring humans. So people aren't going to eat deer anymore,

1524
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:35,360
Speaker 1: but hunters continue hunting them from the outside looking in.

1525
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:39,639
Speaker 1: Now Now one of the most understandable and relatable elements

1526
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:42,760
Speaker 1: of of why people hunt being looked at from the

1527
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:45,240
Speaker 1: outside all of a sudden, that's gone. So now non

1528
01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 1: hunters look at what we're doing and saying, so you're

1529
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:49,240
Speaker 1: just gonna kill these deer and you're gonna toss it out.

1530
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 1: That would even waste my time with it, same reason

1531
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 1: I don't waste my time shooting shiploads of carpet stuff.

1532
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 1: It's like it just would cease to be of any

1533
01:18:57,400 --> 01:18:59,760
Speaker 1: hunt other stuff. But I think, yeah, I think you'd

1534
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:03,439
Speaker 1: see it would be It would be both an issue

1535
01:19:03,439 --> 01:19:04,760
Speaker 1: of what we're able to do and it's like a

1536
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:10,920
Speaker 1: credibility issue to the outside world. It became another conversation

1537
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:14,840
Speaker 1: that we had UM with someone that I know UM

1538
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:19,640
Speaker 1: in our area. There the biggest, not their one and

1539
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 1: only concerned with, their biggest interest in hunting deer is

1540
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:26,480
Speaker 1: the antlers. I didn't have the same concern about CWD

1541
01:19:26,479 --> 01:19:29,599
Speaker 1: that I didn't. Really that's really upsetting to me because

1542
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 1: of that. With some of it's the public perception, but

1543
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:34,080
Speaker 1: some of it's just it's a personal thing. I'm just like,

1544
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:37,080
Speaker 1: what do you mean? But what they don't realize is

1545
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:40,840
Speaker 1: when they're looking at when they say that all they

1546
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:43,639
Speaker 1: care about is antlers, what they're looking at is they're

1547
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 1: not really thinking about where that value came from. They

1548
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:49,439
Speaker 1: didn't create that value. They inherited that value when they

1549
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 1: look at antlers is because those antlers represent something and

1550
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:56,320
Speaker 1: stand for something, Right, A dude, if you had a

1551
01:19:56,400 --> 01:20:01,200
Speaker 1: dude from Mars come down and land on Earth, he

1552
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:03,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't see a buck come out and be like some

1553
01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:06,360
Speaker 1: of a bit, some antlers are awesome. He just wouldn't.

1554
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:09,080
Speaker 1: It's like they value it because they were brought up

1555
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 1: in a social context that puts the value on that.

1556
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:16,600
Speaker 1: And the bigness, like the bigness of them is alluring

1557
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:20,800
Speaker 1: to you because it's a rarity, like like planes, the

1558
01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 1: equestrian planes, Aboriginal bison hunters, like the Blackfeet, the crow.

1559
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:29,599
Speaker 1: They really valued a white buffalo. It was an anomaly, right,

1560
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:30,920
Speaker 1: it was like because you had to look at ten

1561
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 1: thousand to find one and it had an extreme value.

1562
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:35,519
Speaker 1: So when people say like I just like the antlers, dude,

1563
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:38,479
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, okay, you do because of how you

1564
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:40,800
Speaker 1: where you were brought up, how you were brought up,

1565
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:42,960
Speaker 1: what the value system of it came in because it

1566
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:45,240
Speaker 1: was a rarity, because it was an achievement to have

1567
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:48,880
Speaker 1: one get to be old. Anyways, if you start to

1568
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:52,120
Speaker 1: chip away at if you start to chip away at

1569
01:20:52,160 --> 01:20:55,280
Speaker 1: like the legacy of deer, the broader cultural meanings of

1570
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:58,280
Speaker 1: dear you will see a diminishment in that interest. Like

1571
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:02,400
Speaker 1: that interest is is there's a tremendous foundation there that

1572
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:04,120
Speaker 1: they might not be able to articulate and they might

1573
01:21:04,120 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 1: not know the history of But it's like they didn't

1574
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:09,120
Speaker 1: come out of a vacuum thinking big antlers are cool. Yeah,

1575
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:13,040
Speaker 1: it's a learned it's a learned thing. Little kids don't

1576
01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:18,519
Speaker 1: have it, they pick it up. Um So I think

1577
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:21,800
Speaker 1: that if you know, there are ways in which even

1578
01:21:21,960 --> 01:21:25,519
Speaker 1: that value over time, wouild just cease to be that

1579
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:30,360
Speaker 1: big of a deal. This is me being my most pessimistic. Now.

1580
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:32,439
Speaker 1: The other way to look at it would be that,

1581
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:36,120
Speaker 1: like how ship generally kind of continues along, right, So,

1582
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:40,519
Speaker 1: um yeah, if I really had to like go and

1583
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:42,759
Speaker 1: put money on it, I would say, in fifty years,

1584
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:46,040
Speaker 1: we're still gonna be excited about deer hunting, We're still

1585
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 1: gonna be excited about big box. But but when you

1586
01:21:50,160 --> 01:21:53,519
Speaker 1: sort of put on this like theoretical what could possibly happen,

1587
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 1: it winds up being a little more entertaining to to

1588
01:21:56,520 --> 01:21:58,840
Speaker 1: to to to think about the dark side of things,

1589
01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:02,480
Speaker 1: and it just does the rea lity that my maternal

1590
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:06,360
Speaker 1: grandfather liked to hunt deer. My paternal grandfather liked to

1591
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:09,120
Speaker 1: hunt deer. My father liked to hunt deer. I like

1592
01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:11,840
Speaker 1: to hunt deer. My kids already excited about hunting deer.

1593
01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:15,080
Speaker 1: I feel that there's like a pretty good momentum there

1594
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 1: that that my kids, kids kids will be all fired

1595
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:22,000
Speaker 1: up about deer hunting. So I mean to sound like

1596
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 1: a big old nas there. You know, I think as

1597
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:27,120
Speaker 1: long as we as hunters do our part and making

1598
01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:29,280
Speaker 1: sure that's going to be possible in the future, make

1599
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 1: sure there's places to do it in healthy wildlife to

1600
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:36,440
Speaker 1: to pursue. I agree, it's probably what's gonna happen. America

1601
01:22:36,600 --> 01:22:39,439
Speaker 1: will probably continue to be a really great country for

1602
01:22:39,479 --> 01:22:41,800
Speaker 1: a long time. But there's some shing I got my

1603
01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:46,120
Speaker 1: eye out for. Yeah, that's true. There's a couple of

1604
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:53,160
Speaker 1: things I'm watching so yeah, um, yunny thing you want

1605
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 1: to add in wedge in there and the end. Man,

1606
01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:58,439
Speaker 1: I got a couple things I wanted to talk or

1607
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:01,920
Speaker 1: ask Mark about or comment on. Um. I feel like

1608
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:05,040
Speaker 1: with the antlers and the inches, it's sort of like this,

1609
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:06,800
Speaker 1: there's a there's a it's a little bit of a

1610
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:10,679
Speaker 1: negative by product right of that scoring system, that it's

1611
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:15,479
Speaker 1: allowed some maybe like uber competitive people to sort of

1612
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:19,360
Speaker 1: make hunting into a contest. And I really don't like that.

1613
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:23,760
Speaker 1: The golf, the golf, the golf if occasion heart set word,

1614
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:29,400
Speaker 1: the galification of hunting. Yeah, where it's like it's just

1615
01:23:29,439 --> 01:23:33,400
Speaker 1: not it's just like this personal experience journey, Like you

1616
01:23:33,439 --> 01:23:35,479
Speaker 1: were explaining good the other day, we're hunting teas just

1617
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,760
Speaker 1: sort of this lifelong thing that you're involved in, you know.

1618
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:42,559
Speaker 1: And you know I've mentioned this before. I have friends

1619
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:46,840
Speaker 1: have quit scoring animals because they realized how much it

1620
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 1: affected the way they felt about it, Like they would

1621
01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:52,320
Speaker 1: harvest this animal. It was a great trip, it was

1622
01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:54,599
Speaker 1: everything was awesome about it, and they got home, put

1623
01:23:54,640 --> 01:23:58,679
Speaker 1: the tape on it, and it changed it somehow. And

1624
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 1: that's like, that's like it's a it's a bad byproduct,

1625
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:05,440
Speaker 1: you know, Like it started with I think such good intentions,

1626
01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:06,880
Speaker 1: you know, And I just want to be clear. I

1627
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:10,200
Speaker 1: spent again to like the martian or the outsider looking

1628
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 1: in when we talk abo, Yeah, when we talk about

1629
01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 1: like seeing the hundred deer, yes, we're using that as

1630
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:19,320
Speaker 1: in another efficient way to talk about what we know

1631
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:25,360
Speaker 1: is a great big buck um, but it's um. It's

1632
01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:28,320
Speaker 1: again because it is that rarity and anomaly. It's like

1633
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:31,560
Speaker 1: going to see a you know, five hundred foot waterfall

1634
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:43,160
Speaker 1: somewhere or seeing like the triple rainbow. Yeah. I agree

1635
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:46,400
Speaker 1: with you. Yeah, but it's just like it's not a contest,

1636
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:49,240
Speaker 1: and I feel like, yeah, we need to just you know,

1637
01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 1: monitor ourselves on that. And uh, yeah, I always remember

1638
01:24:54,479 --> 01:24:56,240
Speaker 1: that there's more to that. But my question to you, Mark,

1639
01:24:56,360 --> 01:24:59,439
Speaker 1: was you talked a lot about um, like picking your

1640
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:03,639
Speaker 1: times to not hunting certain properties a lot. We talked

1641
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:06,160
Speaker 1: about this the other day. Yeah, and you mentioned I

1642
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:08,240
Speaker 1: think in the last hour as well. Right, Like you're

1643
01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:10,679
Speaker 1: just like real selective, you know about when you're gonna

1644
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:12,439
Speaker 1: go hunt this bucket. It might only be three or

1645
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:15,240
Speaker 1: four days in a season, right, So does that limit

1646
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:17,800
Speaker 1: you're hunting to the point where because I'm kind of

1647
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:20,599
Speaker 1: like listening, I'm like, man, I want to get out

1648
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 1: and hunt more. Or do you have other properties where

1649
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:26,599
Speaker 1: you're still getting You're like, I'm not lacking hunting time

1650
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:28,960
Speaker 1: because I'm sitting there waiting for the time to strike.

1651
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:31,080
Speaker 1: So the way I do kind of real quick. So

1652
01:25:31,080 --> 01:25:33,280
Speaker 1: I'm feeling awful about something. You know, people used to

1653
01:25:33,320 --> 01:25:36,120
Speaker 1: pay to see beard ladies and old circus. It was

1654
01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:37,920
Speaker 1: a joke. I was making a joke about how people

1655
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:40,280
Speaker 1: used to pay money in the old Barnum and Bailey days,

1656
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:43,160
Speaker 1: like you pay money to go see a bearded lady. Oh,

1657
01:25:43,320 --> 01:25:44,760
Speaker 1: I didn't know that I had heard I had heard

1658
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:47,559
Speaker 1: of that. I have not. It was like a part

1659
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:53,599
Speaker 1: of the circus anyways, to your question, because I thought

1660
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:56,320
Speaker 1: that that could potentially feel a little lot of feeling

1661
01:25:56,360 --> 01:25:59,320
Speaker 1: because I was making an old circus joke. It just

1662
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:05,440
Speaker 1: of the landed plate, right. But so to Yanni's question, Um,

1663
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:07,760
Speaker 1: so yes, it would be the latter. So I have

1664
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:09,519
Speaker 1: I tried to have as many different places as I

1665
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:11,880
Speaker 1: can hunt as possible, so I can spread that hunting

1666
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:15,519
Speaker 1: pressure across a number of different areas. So in this

1667
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:18,519
Speaker 1: case with this buck, I know there's certain times of

1668
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:22,400
Speaker 1: the year, based on my analysis over the years, that

1669
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:28,000
Speaker 1: he's more vulnerable. So I'll be looking for certain factors

1670
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:33,400
Speaker 1: such as temperature and wind direction, etcetera, etcetera. If those

1671
01:26:33,439 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 1: things look right the first couple of days of the season,

1672
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:39,040
Speaker 1: that's one of my best opportunities. First shot him. So

1673
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:40,519
Speaker 1: I'm hunt the first day or two this season. If

1674
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:42,840
Speaker 1: the conditions are right after that, I'm going to stay

1675
01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:45,519
Speaker 1: out because he just does not moved in daylight on

1676
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:49,000
Speaker 1: the property. I can hunt from like from the first

1677
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:54,000
Speaker 1: week of October through around like the um for whatever reason,

1678
01:26:54,120 --> 01:26:56,439
Speaker 1: he's a little more careful during that time and lots

1679
01:26:56,479 --> 01:26:58,240
Speaker 1: of times. What people have found in what I've seen too,

1680
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 1: is that deer have relatively consistent annual patterns, so where

1681
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:04,680
Speaker 1: you can see that a buck is going to be

1682
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:07,559
Speaker 1: using a certain area, or he becomes more daylight active

1683
01:27:07,560 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 1: in a certain area year after year around the same

1684
01:27:11,200 --> 01:27:16,680
Speaker 1: general time frame. So this buck around, he all of

1685
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 1: a sudden a light switch for him in particular switches.

1686
01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:21,719
Speaker 1: So I had a shot at him on the twenty

1687
01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:24,439
Speaker 1: four and two fifteen, and I had a shot him

1688
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:27,880
Speaker 1: on the twenty two the exact same place, and I

1689
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:30,240
Speaker 1: started picking more trail camera pictures in the exact same

1690
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:32,680
Speaker 1: place at that same time. From So for that like

1691
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:34,920
Speaker 1: two and a half week period, I'll have I'll be

1692
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,599
Speaker 1: hunting some public land, I'll be hunting in Ohio, I'll

1693
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:41,120
Speaker 1: be hunting my family's little property up in northern Michigan.

1694
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:43,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think in a perfect world you'd like

1695
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:46,599
Speaker 1: to have permission or public access to keep hunting a lot,

1696
01:27:47,080 --> 01:27:50,600
Speaker 1: But just any one particular place is going to have

1697
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:53,960
Speaker 1: a smaller number of hunts. Um. It's just picking, picking

1698
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:57,000
Speaker 1: the right times, and then you know, trying to have

1699
01:27:57,040 --> 01:28:00,920
Speaker 1: a concise kind of surgical rich when you go on there.

1700
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:04,200
Speaker 1: But you're getting enough hunting hunting days in to keep

1701
01:28:04,200 --> 01:28:06,320
Speaker 1: yourself happy, because you know you're gonna apply a certain

1702
01:28:06,360 --> 01:28:08,760
Speaker 1: amount of pressure, so you need places to apply that

1703
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:11,200
Speaker 1: apply that pressure. So you just in that case, you

1704
01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:12,479
Speaker 1: have to be willing to knock on a lot of

1705
01:28:12,479 --> 01:28:15,479
Speaker 1: doors or figure out how to hunt public land, or

1706
01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:18,439
Speaker 1: if you've got the funds to access land in some

1707
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:20,880
Speaker 1: other way, do that. Um. But yeah, we get that

1708
01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:22,839
Speaker 1: question a lot. I want to hunt more. I wouldn't

1709
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:24,600
Speaker 1: want to hunt this way, and you don't need to

1710
01:28:24,640 --> 01:28:27,599
Speaker 1: hunt that way all. I mean, that's just if you're

1711
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:30,400
Speaker 1: hunting in a situation like I am, where it's heavily pressured,

1712
01:28:30,600 --> 01:28:33,439
Speaker 1: and if you're targeting the mature bucks, those types of

1713
01:28:33,479 --> 01:28:36,760
Speaker 1: tactics are most often the best way to go about it.

1714
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:38,639
Speaker 1: But if you're just trying to you know, shoot any

1715
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:40,559
Speaker 1: deer to fill a freezer, go ahead and hunt your

1716
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:43,880
Speaker 1: heart out, um, because you can. You can shoot those

1717
01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:47,480
Speaker 1: and and year link bocks doing that kind of thing. Um,

1718
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:49,240
Speaker 1: I want to hit my concluders because it's a good

1719
01:28:49,240 --> 01:28:51,280
Speaker 1: place to wedge them in one. When you're talking about

1720
01:28:51,280 --> 01:28:53,759
Speaker 1: the light switches and that buck starts coming out on October,

1721
01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:58,240
Speaker 1: it's that's kind of literal because that has ship has

1722
01:28:58,280 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 1: a lot to do with like the photo period, length

1723
01:29:00,479 --> 01:29:04,599
Speaker 1: of day. Um. Yeah, yeah, I'm not like, I don't

1724
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:06,479
Speaker 1: need to present it as I'm telling you something you

1725
01:29:06,479 --> 01:29:09,519
Speaker 1: don't know, but I'm it's just interesting if people are

1726
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:12,120
Speaker 1: just beginning to think about animals in a detailed way.

1727
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:15,080
Speaker 1: It's so much of animal activity is really triggered by

1728
01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:19,120
Speaker 1: if you see consistency, like to the calendar day consistency

1729
01:29:19,160 --> 01:29:22,839
Speaker 1: with animals, What's what you're seeing is effects of changing

1730
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:27,320
Speaker 1: day length, which triggers many things. Yeah, change like photo

1731
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:31,639
Speaker 1: periods create windows of time, and then within those windows

1732
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:36,960
Speaker 1: of time, there are many other factors that contribute. Um.

1733
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:39,360
Speaker 1: So that's a nice thing to keep your eye on

1734
01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:40,920
Speaker 1: when you start to when you really want to get

1735
01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:43,640
Speaker 1: detailed about learning about wildlife. But the thing and you

1736
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:45,080
Speaker 1: kind of touched in this a minute ago, but it

1737
01:29:45,120 --> 01:29:46,680
Speaker 1: struck me the r day as we're having this like

1738
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:49,679
Speaker 1: age old argument where someone would be like, oh man,

1739
01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:51,639
Speaker 1: you're like the best time to hunt is when you can,

1740
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:54,840
Speaker 1: And I was presenting that because I was talking about

1741
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:58,280
Speaker 1: we're talking about people who don't who think that moon

1742
01:29:58,479 --> 01:30:01,680
Speaker 1: phase affects dear movements and they won't hunt if the

1743
01:30:01,680 --> 01:30:07,200
Speaker 1: moon's not right, And we were discussing a counter argument

1744
01:30:07,240 --> 01:30:08,880
Speaker 1: would be like, if you can be out in the woods,

1745
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:11,120
Speaker 1: be out in the woods. And Mark was like, well, no,

1746
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 1: not really, and just reiterate again why why maybe not

1747
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:17,960
Speaker 1: when you can be out in the woods, be out

1748
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:21,240
Speaker 1: in the woods. So again, if you're trying to kill

1749
01:30:21,240 --> 01:30:25,840
Speaker 1: an old buck, these bucks are very savvy to human intrusion,

1750
01:30:25,920 --> 01:30:29,280
Speaker 1: So every time you go into a property, you increase

1751
01:30:29,400 --> 01:30:31,960
Speaker 1: the odds of that buck learning about your presence. So

1752
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:34,760
Speaker 1: you're educating that buck and or the larger deer herd

1753
01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:36,479
Speaker 1: every time you step foot in there, whether it's to

1754
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:39,400
Speaker 1: tinker with a tree stand or move a trail camera

1755
01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:41,840
Speaker 1: or to hunt. Every time you go in there, you

1756
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:47,000
Speaker 1: are educating deer. So you're leaving sen creating visual disturbance etcetera, etcetera.

1757
01:30:47,439 --> 01:30:50,840
Speaker 1: So your odds for success in the future decrease some

1758
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:54,000
Speaker 1: percentage points every time you go in there. So my

1759
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:56,880
Speaker 1: thought processes, if I'm trying to kill the mature buck,

1760
01:30:57,240 --> 01:31:00,280
Speaker 1: I want the odds of reward to be as high

1761
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:02,439
Speaker 1: as possible, because I know that there's gonna be a

1762
01:31:02,680 --> 01:31:04,960
Speaker 1: some level of risk every time, So I want to

1763
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:08,719
Speaker 1: find the lowest risk and the highest reward days. Strike

1764
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 1: on those days, minimize the number of intrusions so that

1765
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:14,880
Speaker 1: I don't educate more dear because you can educate that buck,

1766
01:31:15,160 --> 01:31:17,920
Speaker 1: or if you educate the dough herd, and you know,

1767
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:20,920
Speaker 1: let's say in a situation where a mature dough or

1768
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:23,360
Speaker 1: a handful mature dough starts picking up on the fact

1769
01:31:23,400 --> 01:31:26,120
Speaker 1: that I'm rolling into this little corner of the property

1770
01:31:26,200 --> 01:31:28,839
Speaker 1: every couple of days, then she doesn't come around anymore,

1771
01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:30,479
Speaker 1: or when she comes in, she looks right at the

1772
01:31:30,479 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 1: tree stand. If that happens, and the buck happened, buck

1773
01:31:33,160 --> 01:31:35,360
Speaker 1: I'm after happening to be happens to be a hundred

1774
01:31:35,439 --> 01:31:39,200
Speaker 1: yards behind him, sees her spook, or maybe that buck

1775
01:31:39,240 --> 01:31:41,720
Speaker 1: would have followed her in towards a tree stand. On

1776
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:44,640
Speaker 1: November one, but because now those doughs know not to

1777
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:46,800
Speaker 1: move in there during daylight, Now he won't follow her

1778
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:49,280
Speaker 1: in there. I always need to be thinking about the

1779
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 1: impacts of hunting pressure, human intrusion, and then yeah, I mean,

1780
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:56,599
Speaker 1: it's just it's an odds thing. I'm constantly the scale

1781
01:31:56,640 --> 01:31:58,280
Speaker 1: every single hunt I go into, I just have these

1782
01:31:58,280 --> 01:32:00,240
Speaker 1: two hands. I like, Okay, what are the things in

1783
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:02,200
Speaker 1: favor of reward? So what do I have going for me?

1784
01:32:02,200 --> 01:32:04,560
Speaker 1: Maybe it's the time of year, Maybe it's the conditions,

1785
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:06,839
Speaker 1: Maybe it's an up. Maybe I saw him in daylight

1786
01:32:06,840 --> 01:32:09,599
Speaker 1: recently moving. Maybe I know that a certain food source

1787
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:12,760
Speaker 1: is going to be particularly palatable starting now. Um, so

1788
01:32:12,800 --> 01:32:14,439
Speaker 1: those are all the things will tell me how high

1789
01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:16,640
Speaker 1: or low that chance of reward will be. And then

1790
01:32:16,640 --> 01:32:19,759
Speaker 1: I look at the chances of risk. So what things

1791
01:32:19,880 --> 01:32:23,040
Speaker 1: could lead to me being you know, spotted, or what

1792
01:32:23,240 --> 01:32:25,559
Speaker 1: could lead to me blow on my cover? So maybe

1793
01:32:25,560 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 1: it's wind, Maybe it's how many times I've been in there.

1794
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:30,640
Speaker 1: Maybe it's the time of year. Maybe it's you know,

1795
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:33,320
Speaker 1: how the neighbors are are hunting or doing something like that.

1796
01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:36,160
Speaker 1: So all those things factor into every single hunt. Um

1797
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:39,599
Speaker 1: for me, at least, you know, you talked about white tail.

1798
01:32:39,640 --> 01:32:43,000
Speaker 1: Guys will invent moves that kind of reminiscent of professional

1799
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:45,240
Speaker 1: wrestling moves like you talked about, like the bumping dump

1800
01:32:45,360 --> 01:32:47,360
Speaker 1: bumping dump. I would if I was you, I would

1801
01:32:47,360 --> 01:32:50,479
Speaker 1: think of a move called the canyon. So what's then?

1802
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:54,599
Speaker 1: It would be that you sneak onto all the neighboring

1803
01:32:54,640 --> 01:32:58,599
Speaker 1: properties after dark and just make life hell for those deer,

1804
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:04,920
Speaker 1: thinking that they will naturally congregate on thee where you

1805
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:07,320
Speaker 1: have permission. What were we just talking about that whole

1806
01:33:07,360 --> 01:33:11,800
Speaker 1: deal crossing the line. So every night you're just going

1807
01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:15,519
Speaker 1: through core feeding and betting areas just like raising Holy hell,

1808
01:33:15,800 --> 01:33:19,640
Speaker 1: now here's okay. This is that made me that I'm

1809
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:21,880
Speaker 1: joking because Matt, that's what Mark does and it is

1810
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:29,599
Speaker 1: called the Kend. Definitely not what to do. But one

1811
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:34,120
Speaker 1: thing I do I do do um is I kind

1812
01:33:34,120 --> 01:33:37,800
Speaker 1: of call it like my guns season sanctuary strategy. So

1813
01:33:38,280 --> 01:33:40,120
Speaker 1: I think about, like if there's a property that I

1814
01:33:40,200 --> 01:33:42,240
Speaker 1: have sould access to, So again this if we keep

1815
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:44,040
Speaker 1: referring to this ninety acres, this is like the one

1816
01:33:44,040 --> 01:33:47,600
Speaker 1: place I have that nobody else hans, so I have

1817
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:49,720
Speaker 1: the opportunity to do things there that otherwise you know,

1818
01:33:49,720 --> 01:33:51,960
Speaker 1: if other guys are coming in out, I wouldn't. So

1819
01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:55,439
Speaker 1: my thought process is that November, you know, in Michigan,

1820
01:33:55,640 --> 01:33:58,280
Speaker 1: the Orange Rimy comes out, hundreds and hundreds of thousands

1821
01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:00,840
Speaker 1: of deer hunters in the woods. It's a dramatic increase

1822
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:03,719
Speaker 1: in hunting pressure. Most of the deer in Michigan killed

1823
01:34:03,760 --> 01:34:05,559
Speaker 1: during the first day of guns season, and then over

1824
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:07,880
Speaker 1: the course of the next couple of weeks. I choose

1825
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:10,320
Speaker 1: not to hunt this property at all during gun season

1826
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:15,880
Speaker 1: because my thoughts are that I create a sanctuary if

1827
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:19,559
Speaker 1: vacuuman's vacuums and deer from all the surrounding properties during

1828
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:21,680
Speaker 1: that time period. So dozens and dozens of hunters are

1829
01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:24,519
Speaker 1: all around, they're all hunting with the guns. All these

1830
01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:27,240
Speaker 1: deer are looking for somewhere there's not hunters. That's what

1831
01:34:27,280 --> 01:34:29,760
Speaker 1: happens to be this property. All these deer flood in there.

1832
01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:34,120
Speaker 1: This achieves two things for me. Number One, it pulls

1833
01:34:34,160 --> 01:34:36,320
Speaker 1: in deer in the short term. So if there is

1834
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:38,720
Speaker 1: a mature buck that I'm after, it's more likely that

1835
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:41,160
Speaker 1: he'll survive through gun season than I can continue to

1836
01:34:41,160 --> 01:34:44,240
Speaker 1: target him the late season or under the future. And

1837
01:34:44,280 --> 01:34:46,560
Speaker 1: then number two, in the long term, a lot of

1838
01:34:46,640 --> 01:34:48,599
Speaker 1: year and a half old bucks come pouring, or two

1839
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:50,240
Speaker 1: and a half year old bucks bucks I'd like to

1840
01:34:50,280 --> 01:34:52,360
Speaker 1: see make it to an older age class. I'd like

1841
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:54,880
Speaker 1: to see a more balanced age structure. So I think

1842
01:34:54,920 --> 01:34:57,320
Speaker 1: I can have a disproportionate impact on the deer herd

1843
01:34:57,360 --> 01:34:59,599
Speaker 1: a general area, even though I'm only hunting a little

1844
01:34:59,600 --> 01:35:02,240
Speaker 1: piece of it. I can have a disproportionate impact because

1845
01:35:02,240 --> 01:35:04,679
Speaker 1: I create a safe place during the most dangerous time.

1846
01:35:05,320 --> 01:35:09,120
Speaker 1: More deer can make it through um And I can't

1847
01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:12,760
Speaker 1: quantify the impact that's had, but anecdotally, I do believe

1848
01:35:12,760 --> 01:35:15,280
Speaker 1: it has made it positive impact. I've seen mature bucks

1849
01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:17,240
Speaker 1: that I don't think would have made it if I

1850
01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:19,639
Speaker 1: was in there mucking around all the time. I would

1851
01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:25,280
Speaker 1: call that the crowdsourced canyon. Do you monitor that property

1852
01:35:25,320 --> 01:35:28,000
Speaker 1: then during the gun season so that the guy next door,

1853
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:29,880
Speaker 1: the guy on the other side, because that small property,

1854
01:35:29,920 --> 01:35:32,920
Speaker 1: like that dude just walks on the edge of Yeah,

1855
01:35:32,920 --> 01:35:37,000
Speaker 1: it's only you're like talking about something a quarter Wisconsin.

1856
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:39,800
Speaker 1: You wait till the packers are playing and then go

1857
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:41,880
Speaker 1: on the neighbors legs. You know, damn sure, he's not

1858
01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:44,360
Speaker 1: out in the woods yeah, so so yeah, I mean

1859
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:47,479
Speaker 1: there's always that risk, right, But I've tried to establish

1860
01:35:47,479 --> 01:35:52,639
Speaker 1: positive relationships with the neighbors, so I'm I'm trusting Number two.

1861
01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:54,479
Speaker 1: I do have trail cameras all over the place that

1862
01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:56,760
Speaker 1: are monitoring edges and stuff, and I think I try

1863
01:35:56,800 --> 01:36:00,240
Speaker 1: to make that known. There's posted signs all around the

1864
01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:04,360
Speaker 1: explicitly say that there are you know, trail cameras monitoring

1865
01:36:04,360 --> 01:36:07,680
Speaker 1: this property really, um so that if you if you

1866
01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:09,160
Speaker 1: were to come on there, you know there's a good

1867
01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:13,599
Speaker 1: risk that, um you're gonna get spotted and prosecuted. So

1868
01:36:13,680 --> 01:36:15,519
Speaker 1: I try to manage that as possible, and I'll even

1869
01:36:15,680 --> 01:36:19,200
Speaker 1: try to. I try to. I try to be nearby.

1870
01:36:19,280 --> 01:36:23,719
Speaker 1: It is often, and I go through that. You gotta

1871
01:36:23,720 --> 01:36:25,479
Speaker 1: make your presence. Yeah. I throw at the guy in

1872
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:31,560
Speaker 1: the bar every once in a while, I just walks it.

1873
01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:33,880
Speaker 1: Ramy beats up a guy and announces to everyone that

1874
01:36:33,920 --> 01:36:36,439
Speaker 1: he has a picture of him on his property. I

1875
01:36:36,479 --> 01:36:38,920
Speaker 1: don't I don't disbelieve that. Because today we walked into

1876
01:36:38,920 --> 01:36:40,960
Speaker 1: a restaurant and Doug's afraid to sit down with his

1877
01:36:41,000 --> 01:36:43,200
Speaker 1: back towards the group because he's the words some of

1878
01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:46,880
Speaker 1: might come up and clock he's got gunfighters. Doug got

1879
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:50,800
Speaker 1: any concluders, Uh yes, but one of the would we

1880
01:36:50,840 --> 01:36:52,639
Speaker 1: would go on for a long time, so I gotta

1881
01:36:52,640 --> 01:36:55,600
Speaker 1: skip that one. Skip that one well, but it is

1882
01:36:55,640 --> 01:36:57,240
Speaker 1: something I'd like to talk to you about in the future,

1883
01:36:57,280 --> 01:37:01,240
Speaker 1: and that is about how you gain access to property.

1884
01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:03,760
Speaker 1: That would be good. I got a lot of say

1885
01:37:03,880 --> 01:37:06,840
Speaker 1: a lot about yeah, yeah, and one thing, and I

1886
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:09,920
Speaker 1: want to do a whole episode called permissions. Will you

1887
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:14,000
Speaker 1: come back on for that? I think that's really uh,

1888
01:37:14,240 --> 01:37:15,760
Speaker 1: you know, and of course on my place, if you're

1889
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:17,760
Speaker 1: famous guy, you get to come and hunt and fiddle

1890
01:37:17,800 --> 01:37:24,320
Speaker 1: around the roof that song. Traditions, Yeah, traditions do permisitions. Um,

1891
01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:28,240
Speaker 1: So okay. I never know how much you guys sing either.

1892
01:37:28,360 --> 01:37:30,400
Speaker 1: That was something I learned on this trail. We sing

1893
01:37:30,439 --> 01:37:35,559
Speaker 1: a lot, especially when we all know the song. So yeah,

1894
01:37:35,560 --> 01:37:38,280
Speaker 1: so that's something for another time, you know. I guess

1895
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:39,680
Speaker 1: the other thing that I would say is that the

1896
01:37:39,720 --> 01:37:44,920
Speaker 1: most uh interesting part and and enjoyable part of all

1897
01:37:44,960 --> 01:37:48,000
Speaker 1: this for me is Um. And I know why you

1898
01:37:48,040 --> 01:37:50,400
Speaker 1: two guys are getting along so well in Yanni too

1899
01:37:50,439 --> 01:37:58,240
Speaker 1: with is that there's the passion that you have for um.

1900
01:37:58,280 --> 01:38:02,679
Speaker 1: What it is that you do. Uh. I mean it's

1901
01:38:02,680 --> 01:38:07,240
Speaker 1: almost as if you came to this um in in

1902
01:38:07,400 --> 01:38:11,000
Speaker 1: both of your where you know, where you're making your living,

1903
01:38:11,080 --> 01:38:15,360
Speaker 1: because first you are passionate about hunting in animals and

1904
01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:17,439
Speaker 1: conservation and all of that, and then the rest of

1905
01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:22,439
Speaker 1: it followed as opposed to I'm gonna I'm gonna be

1906
01:38:22,479 --> 01:38:25,599
Speaker 1: a TV guy or I'm gonna be a podcast guy

1907
01:38:25,680 --> 01:38:27,360
Speaker 1: or whatever, and so then god, what am I gonna

1908
01:38:27,400 --> 01:38:30,920
Speaker 1: do it about? Um? And I just don't think that

1909
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:36,480
Speaker 1: you can create that authenticity without that passion and sincerity.

1910
01:38:36,520 --> 01:38:40,559
Speaker 1: And I think that's really um, I think that's really important.

1911
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:44,280
Speaker 1: And uh, the thing that ties it all together. Yeah,

1912
01:38:44,360 --> 01:38:47,320
Speaker 1: I learned that in tenth grade from my teacher Robert Heaton,

1913
01:38:48,240 --> 01:38:52,400
Speaker 1: who said what many writing teachers say and others should say,

1914
01:38:53,080 --> 01:38:57,439
Speaker 1: is I'm right what you know? Yeah, well that's cool.

1915
01:38:57,479 --> 01:39:00,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's it's wonderful know about Shakespeare,

1916
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:10,280
Speaker 1: sospeare that excuses me from that assignment. Um, you already

1917
01:39:10,280 --> 01:39:12,599
Speaker 1: did my concluder. You're good on yours. Doc. I'm good

1918
01:39:12,640 --> 01:39:15,360
Speaker 1: too good And I like to do thanks, um, And

1919
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:17,880
Speaker 1: I do like your suggestion for the way asked bigger

1920
01:39:17,920 --> 01:39:25,200
Speaker 1: one just permissions, um mark concluders. You got your wedding

1921
01:39:25,240 --> 01:39:29,120
Speaker 1: ring off. Slowly he lost his shoes. Now he lost

1922
01:39:29,160 --> 01:39:33,400
Speaker 1: his wedding ring. I hope your wife not list. We're

1923
01:39:33,439 --> 01:39:38,080
Speaker 1: laying in bed. It's real quick. You're like a ring fiddler.

1924
01:39:38,120 --> 01:39:41,479
Speaker 1: I'm a ring fiddler. I've I've lost it, and like

1925
01:39:41,600 --> 01:39:44,040
Speaker 1: car seat cushion or like you know, down in the

1926
01:39:44,120 --> 01:39:46,559
Speaker 1: cracks and stuff. Many times I would be, but my

1927
01:39:46,640 --> 01:39:50,360
Speaker 1: fingers have changed. They've become more powerful to where I

1928
01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:52,880
Speaker 1: can't get mine off. I'll tell you a story, though,

1929
01:39:53,200 --> 01:39:54,680
Speaker 1: even though it's your turn for a concluder. When I

1930
01:39:54,680 --> 01:39:56,320
Speaker 1: was a kid, we were butchering a snap and turtle

1931
01:39:56,920 --> 01:40:01,720
Speaker 1: and my old man somehow in the process lost his

1932
01:40:01,800 --> 01:40:05,800
Speaker 1: wedding ring, and my mother was devastated. He was all

1933
01:40:05,880 --> 01:40:09,360
Speaker 1: upset and search and search, and eventually he got to

1934
01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:12,960
Speaker 1: where he remembered that he had rinsed all the turtle

1935
01:40:13,000 --> 01:40:17,559
Speaker 1: meat in this big tub and then pulled the turtle

1936
01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:20,640
Speaker 1: meat out, and then later took the tub and it

1937
01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:25,240
Speaker 1: dumped it in the garden just like water, and went

1938
01:40:25,240 --> 01:40:27,720
Speaker 1: out and was looking around the garden and found the

1939
01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:31,640
Speaker 1: wedding ring where he dumped after like running it through

1940
01:40:31,680 --> 01:40:33,280
Speaker 1: in his head like what could have possibly happened in

1941
01:40:33,320 --> 01:40:34,960
Speaker 1: that ring and eventually occurred to him and there it

1942
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:37,960
Speaker 1: wasn't the gal I don't remember. How was a little

1943
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:41,720
Speaker 1: we found a few in gup piles. We'd be back

1944
01:40:41,720 --> 01:40:43,160
Speaker 1: at camp and the guy, you know, all of a a

1945
01:40:43,200 --> 01:40:48,040
Speaker 1: sudden go oh oh no. A few twice it happened

1946
01:40:48,120 --> 01:40:51,080
Speaker 1: that I can remember. We go back and you know,

1947
01:40:51,120 --> 01:40:53,640
Speaker 1: because it gets that bloods can be slick, you know,

1948
01:40:53,720 --> 01:40:56,679
Speaker 1: and if you don't have those, you know, ever powerful

1949
01:40:56,720 --> 01:40:59,240
Speaker 1: fingers that continue to grow. And you know, my father

1950
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:07,920
Speaker 1: livering baby pigs found at the pig Bacon years later. Uh.

1951
01:41:08,760 --> 01:41:13,640
Speaker 1: One time I was out we're floating um fishing and

1952
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:16,400
Speaker 1: and uh I saw where a bunch of ravens were

1953
01:41:16,400 --> 01:41:18,760
Speaker 1: dicking around in the trees off the off the river.

1954
01:41:20,040 --> 01:41:22,520
Speaker 1: And we started going over and it's just bear trails,

1955
01:41:22,560 --> 01:41:24,680
Speaker 1: like new bear trails leaning this area, and someone had

1956
01:41:24,720 --> 01:41:27,360
Speaker 1: butchered to moose and so it's an area the size

1957
01:41:27,360 --> 01:41:31,680
Speaker 1: of this hotel room. It's just matted down grass. You know,

1958
01:41:31,800 --> 01:41:33,640
Speaker 1: they're just in there really heavy, like feeding on the

1959
01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:36,320
Speaker 1: carcase is totally gone and laying in the middle of

1960
01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:40,439
Speaker 1: this room sized piece of matted ground is a leather

1961
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:44,200
Speaker 1: man that looks licked clean, just like glistening in the

1962
01:41:44,240 --> 01:41:46,840
Speaker 1: sun lander and you can tell that some dude like

1963
01:41:46,920 --> 01:41:50,120
Speaker 1: lost it. Butcher and his moose, and eventually all the

1964
01:41:50,120 --> 01:41:53,040
Speaker 1: ship that was obscuring it from his view has been

1965
01:41:53,120 --> 01:41:55,639
Speaker 1: mopped up and then cleaned. The part of this thing

1966
01:41:55,680 --> 01:41:58,559
Speaker 1: looked like off the factory floor laying in there. I

1967
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:01,320
Speaker 1: still have that thing. I still have that was over

1968
01:42:01,360 --> 01:42:04,120
Speaker 1: a decade ago. I keep it kind of a special place.

1969
01:42:04,760 --> 01:42:07,240
Speaker 1: Not it's not in my medicine box, but it's in

1970
01:42:07,280 --> 01:42:09,920
Speaker 1: a place where it could someday make its way. It

1971
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:12,479
Speaker 1: hasn't been upgraded to the medicine box, but it's close.

1972
01:42:12,840 --> 01:42:16,240
Speaker 1: Mark your concluder. After a few delays there, I'm sorry,

1973
01:42:16,439 --> 01:42:19,400
Speaker 1: that's okay. Uh Well, I guess first, I just want

1974
01:42:19,400 --> 01:42:21,760
Speaker 1: to thank you so much for having me here for

1975
01:42:21,840 --> 01:42:24,360
Speaker 1: this trip and this experience and being on here in

1976
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:28,439
Speaker 1: the podcast. It's been unbelievable experience. I think me and

1977
01:42:28,479 --> 01:42:29,840
Speaker 1: Doug have just said it over and over and over

1978
01:42:29,880 --> 01:42:31,360
Speaker 1: again to each other. They just look at each other

1979
01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:37,559
Speaker 1: and we wow, just amazing. Thank you. Um. And I

1980
01:42:37,560 --> 01:42:39,160
Speaker 1: guess I was just I was trying to think here

1981
01:42:39,160 --> 01:42:40,920
Speaker 1: about things we've talked about and things we haven't yet

1982
01:42:40,920 --> 01:42:45,599
Speaker 1: talked about, um and something that is worth noting. And

1983
01:42:45,640 --> 01:42:49,439
Speaker 1: maybe it's I think it's maybe more so it's a

1984
01:42:49,560 --> 01:42:53,840
Speaker 1: kind of a white tail guy thing. Is that I'm

1985
01:42:53,880 --> 01:42:56,559
Speaker 1: generalizing here, but I think very often we white tail

1986
01:42:56,640 --> 01:42:58,400
Speaker 1: guys get something that I kind of referred to as

1987
01:42:58,439 --> 01:43:04,400
Speaker 1: conservation tunnel vision, where we start looking at just our

1988
01:43:04,880 --> 01:43:08,680
Speaker 1: back forty or our little place or our property, and

1989
01:43:08,680 --> 01:43:11,280
Speaker 1: we're very focused on just what's happening there. I just

1990
01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:14,040
Speaker 1: want to make sure, I mean, these are good things.

1991
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:17,200
Speaker 1: Maybe doing some habitat work or you know, killing dose

1992
01:43:17,320 --> 01:43:18,800
Speaker 1: because that's going to help your herd or whatever it

1993
01:43:18,880 --> 01:43:20,960
Speaker 1: might be. You care about that little slice, and that's

1994
01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:24,000
Speaker 1: important and good. But what I worry sometimes within my

1995
01:43:24,040 --> 01:43:27,439
Speaker 1: little community is that sometimes we fail to pay attention

1996
01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:30,360
Speaker 1: or care about the bigger picture things as much, like

1997
01:43:30,880 --> 01:43:34,600
Speaker 1: public land issues or clean air, clean water, um or

1998
01:43:34,640 --> 01:43:36,360
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. So one of the things I

1999
01:43:36,400 --> 01:43:40,800
Speaker 1: always try to remind my white tail brotherhood is that

2000
01:43:41,080 --> 01:43:44,639
Speaker 1: all these bigger picture issues they impact all of us too,

2001
01:43:45,160 --> 01:43:49,400
Speaker 1: um So, so try to listen and hear about all

2002
01:43:49,439 --> 01:43:52,840
Speaker 1: these different issues. Educate yourself, care about your back forty

2003
01:43:52,960 --> 01:43:55,439
Speaker 1: but also look at these bigger picture things that impact

2004
01:43:56,240 --> 01:43:59,559
Speaker 1: your hunting rights or the ability for us to have

2005
01:44:00,040 --> 01:44:03,519
Speaker 1: you know, vibrant wildlife populations across the country. Like it

2006
01:44:03,600 --> 01:44:08,920
Speaker 1: or not, your back is part of the earth. Yeah, exactly,

2007
01:44:08,960 --> 01:44:11,599
Speaker 1: so I think you know, that's all I That's all

2008
01:44:11,600 --> 01:44:13,519
Speaker 1: I'd add to is that we are a part of

2009
01:44:13,560 --> 01:44:17,559
Speaker 1: a very large, connected world, and um, let's take care

2010
01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:19,400
Speaker 1: of it. Have you ever heard the idea? It's a

2011
01:44:19,479 --> 01:44:24,960
Speaker 1: theoretical concept that Okay, like like think of your own body,

2012
01:44:24,960 --> 01:44:29,719
Speaker 1: like you're an organism, right, and at being an organism,

2013
01:44:29,800 --> 01:44:31,880
Speaker 1: you have you're made up of many organs that have

2014
01:44:31,960 --> 01:44:34,920
Speaker 1: all these functions. So you have circulatory system, right, you're

2015
01:44:34,960 --> 01:44:39,080
Speaker 1: like taking in liquids, pulling things, expelling things, and you're

2016
01:44:39,120 --> 01:44:42,160
Speaker 1: this part. And then you also have more cells that

2017
01:44:42,240 --> 01:44:45,479
Speaker 1: aren't you than that are you. When you think of

2018
01:44:45,520 --> 01:44:49,400
Speaker 1: all the micro organisms that comprise your gatten, that live

2019
01:44:49,479 --> 01:44:52,759
Speaker 1: on you as parasites or in symbiotic relationships with yourselves

2020
01:44:53,160 --> 01:44:57,920
Speaker 1: with yourself, Um, there's this theoretical concept that you would

2021
01:44:58,000 --> 01:45:02,519
Speaker 1: think of the earth as an organism, And at first

2022
01:45:02,520 --> 01:45:04,280
Speaker 1: it seems kind of trippy and like a little bit

2023
01:45:04,280 --> 01:45:06,400
Speaker 1: out there, but once you start thinking about if you

2024
01:45:06,439 --> 01:45:09,120
Speaker 1: imagine the earth as an organism and it has a

2025
01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:15,120
Speaker 1: circulatory system, and it breathes, and it has blood, and

2026
01:45:15,160 --> 01:45:20,080
Speaker 1: it has micro organisms within it. It's just like something

2027
01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:21,840
Speaker 1: when you like land about at night. It's fun to

2028
01:45:21,840 --> 01:45:27,360
Speaker 1: start imagining that that you you are one of those microbes,

2029
01:45:28,479 --> 01:45:32,400
Speaker 1: the same that you have millions and millions of microbes

2030
01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:36,000
Speaker 1: in you. You are one of those microbes that is

2031
01:45:36,160 --> 01:45:41,680
Speaker 1: part of this organism, the earth, and your concept of

2032
01:45:41,720 --> 01:45:44,120
Speaker 1: your world. If you imagine if those microbes in your

2033
01:45:44,120 --> 01:45:48,200
Speaker 1: gut had consciousness, their consciousness would lead them to think

2034
01:45:48,280 --> 01:45:51,879
Speaker 1: that they are the thing. They are the thing that matters,

2035
01:45:53,040 --> 01:45:55,400
Speaker 1: and this body that gives them life and that they

2036
01:45:55,439 --> 01:45:58,479
Speaker 1: exist in is just this broader other that they don't

2037
01:45:58,520 --> 01:46:03,160
Speaker 1: really get because they are the point of existence. And

2038
01:46:03,320 --> 01:46:06,240
Speaker 1: expand that outward and outward and outward, and it becomes

2039
01:46:06,280 --> 01:46:09,960
Speaker 1: an interesting mental exercise. And I think if we all

2040
01:46:10,880 --> 01:46:12,880
Speaker 1: looked at things a little bit more that way, it

2041
01:46:12,920 --> 01:46:17,040
Speaker 1: could lead to some positive things. Alright, man, Thanks tuning

2042
01:46:17,040 --> 01:46:17,240
Speaker 1: in