WEBVTT - Did Mallory Make it to the Top of Everest First? 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.240 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.280 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:15.600 and there's Chuck and this is Stuff you should Know 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:19.200 lost on the Mountain Top edition, but not in Tennessee 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.119 because this has nothing to do with the Beverly Hillbillies 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:29.000 at all. Wow, that was a roundabout funny intro. I 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:33.559 didn't even know it was coming thirty seconds ago. Uh No, 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:37.360 we're not talking about Tennessee. We were talking about um 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:42.479 one of the heroes of of mountaineering and mountain climbing, 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:48.239 certainly Mr George Mallory, and the great mystery to me 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:52.080 unsettled mystery on whether or not he ever made it 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:57.960 to the top of Edvers. Yes, Edvers right. So boy, yeah, 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:00.760 this is a tough start, Chuck, because I just realized 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:03.960 what I referenced was the Davy Crockett theme, not Beverly Hillbilly. 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:08.720 So everybody save your emails. Okay, all you Beverly Hillbillies, 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:12.960 cause players save your savior emails. So, okay, we're talking 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.320 about Mount Everest. We're not talking about Davy Crockett or 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:20.560 the Beverly Hillbillies. We're talking about Um. George Mallory and 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.160 to a lesser extent kind of unfairly but also kind 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:28.680 of fairly his climbing companions, Sandy Irvine and George Mallory 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.720 is extraordinarily famous. Not just in the climbing community. He's 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:35.000 a legend in the climbing community, Chuck. But you and 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:37.520 I know about him. I knew about Mallory, didn't you 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:41.720 before all this? Uh? Yeah, at least heard his name, 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:45.440 had a general idea about him, right, sure, named two 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:51.080 other climbers exactly, the guy from that free solo documentary 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:56.520 count and um, and well all the sherpa. I mean 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.760 we it makes great pains to point out the sherpa, 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.520 but uh, suffice to say, all you have to do 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:05.480 is go back and listen to our episode sharp a 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:10.040 Warm Friendly Living, in which we dedicate an entire episode 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:14.120 to the usually nameless serpa, who are usually standing just 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.720 out of frame of some white dude saying, yeah, I 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:19.960 climbed Everest again, but here, go ahead and get your 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:23.320 picture taken, right, And they just kind of slowly shoved 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.760 them to the side. But yeah, but um, despite your 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.200 best efforts, you still managed to prove my point. Yeah, 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:35.240 George Mallory is extremely famous and up to his thirties, 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:37.320 it did not look like it was going to go 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:40.760 that way because he started out this very famous mountain 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.520 climber and mountaineer and early mountain climber mountaineer too. That's 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.320 something that I feel as a beat will hit throughout 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:51.200 this episode that these guys that Mallory was climbing with, 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.760 we're using like they were making some of their own gear. 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:58.400 They were figuring out mountaineering techniques as they went along. 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.400 It was like a brand new thing that people were doing. 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:05.679 And George Mallory was among the earliest people doing that. Yeah, 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:07.760 there's that one. Uh, I don't know if it was 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.120 a journalist or somebody was talking about pictures of the 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.600 actual attempt to climb Everest and he said, these guys 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.720 look like they had gone out for a picnic and 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.320 were hit by a snowstorm, right, and just in how 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.320 they were dressed. You know, they were in like tweed 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:25.080 jackets and stuff. Yeah, and um, hobnail boots, so just 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.400 like some leather boots with some spikes attached to him. 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:32.600 Like just nothing you would even climb a hill in 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:35.840 these days, let alone Mount Everest. But that's what they 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:40.000 were wearing. So George Mallory didn't start out as showing 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:42.760 signs he was going to be famous. He was kind 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:47.520 of a left leaning, progressive intellectual school teacher. Um, he 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:51.200 did rub elbows with John Maynard Keynes and Virginia Woolf 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:55.560 from the Bloomberry group Bloomsberry. Yeah, but that was probably 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.920 the greatest brush with fame that he had up until 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:03.200 he started hitting Mount Everest and making that basically his 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.640 stated goal in life. Yeah. I mean, he got into 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.880 hiking and mountaineering when he was in his late teens 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.520 and really fell in loved with it. But you know, 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:17.000 as Ed Keenly points out, it was, you know, it 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.480 was such a new sport that people didn't even really know, 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.240 Like they haven't even charted like the highest mountains in 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.279 the world up into a very i mean what I 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:29.760 consider a pretty late point when you think about like 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.560 expeditions that Lewis and Clark made. It was, uh in 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:36.840 eighteen fifty two when they finally finally figured out that 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.320 Everest was the tallest peak. Yeah, like up to eighteen 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:42.840 fifty two, they were basically at the point of that 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:45.120 one's tall. Oh look at that one. That's a tall 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.440 one too. Yeah, I wish we could put him next 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.880 to each other exactly. So there was actually a guy 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:55.160 named uh right On Sigtar who was an Indian surveyor 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:59.159 who used data that the English had um produced during 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:03.560 their occupy and of India um to calculate just exactly 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:06.800 how tall Mount Everest was, because they really did settle 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.839 on Everest just by sight. They're like, that might be 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.960 the tallest mountain we've ever seen, and indeed it turned 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:16.800 out at twenty nine thousand, thirty two ft. Mount Everest 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:19.880 was in the mid nineteenth century and still is today 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.960 the tallest mountain in the entire world. And they named 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.160 it Everest after the director of the survey in India. 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.200 Of course they did, Sir George Everest. But if you 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:32.360 asked it Tibetan, what's the name of that big old 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:36.280 mountain over there, they would tell you Chomo Lugma, which 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.440 means mother goddess of the world in Tibetan. So even 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:43.640 the Tibetans were like, this is clearly the world's tallest mountain. Yeah, 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:46.320 And of course they had, you know, their own names 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:50.200 for it, but we generally don't know those names because 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:52.080 they would come along later and just name it after 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:56.400 just some dude, but we some some englishman. I mean Chomlongma. 0:05:56.600 --> 0:06:00.280 That's definitely one of them. No, I know, but to 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.680 tend people what m Longa is, right, and name two 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:07.279 other famous climbers. Yes, but the long and short of 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.400 it is, I guess the tall and short of it is. 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:13.040 They realized that Everest was the tallest thing in eighteen 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:16.800 fifty two, but big deal. They couldn't do anything about it. 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.000 They could just kind of gaze upon it. It would 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:23.760 be decades and decades before anyone even thought that they 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:27.120 might be able to climb Everest. Because here's the deal. 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:32.560 Getting to Everest and climbing it is, uh like, ascending 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:34.840 the peak is one thing, but just getting to that 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:40.400 point is I don't know, the battle. I would say easily. 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:42.839 Most people think you look at the mountain, you just 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:44.599 climb up the base and go up to the side 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:47.320 and you're done. But no, you have to basically traverse 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:50.039 mountain ranges. Mountain mountains just don't exist on their own. 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.440 They're part of ranges and you don't really think about it. 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:55.680 But you have to climb all these other little mini 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:58.360 mountains to get to the big mountain in the first place, 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.600 and this can be walks of you know, dozens or 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.239 scores of miles and not walk it's not a straight 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:05.880 walk over a plane. And then you get to the 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:08.240 edge of the mountain, you go up like you're going 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.080 up and up and up, and you're existing at higher 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:14.559 and higher altitudes, which the English people who were um 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.400 who are doing this at first are we're not used to. 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.560 So they were doing this with basically altitude sickness and 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:24.000 all the stuff that comes with that. Alright, so let's 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:28.280 go to and the stage is sort of set to 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.520 where they feel like it might be possible to actually 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:35.880 accomplish something like this. And the Royal Geographic Society got 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:39.840 together with the Alpine Club UH to form and they 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.160 didn't like permanently come together, but they worked together to 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.840 form the Mount Everest Committee to say, all right, let's 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.280 let's let's give this a go, old boy. And they 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.480 got permission from Tibet in ninety one to go on 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:55.440 a scouting trip. And this was a trip where they 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.040 would just kind of figure out how to climb Everest. 0:07:58.120 --> 0:07:59.680 Like it wasn't like they just said all right, let's 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:01.600 give it a go and see if we can get 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.040 to the top, Like they had to take uh several 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.640 trips just to sort of map out what they thought 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:09.520 would be a feasible way to even try to get 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:13.720 to the top. Right, Apparently no one from Europe had 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.960 been within sixty miles of Everest itself, so this was 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:21.440 all new, uncharted territory basically for these guys. And again 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:23.840 it's really important to say, like we're we're going to 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.000 be telling the story from the English point of view, 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.800 and like you said, the sherpa rarely figure into that. Um, 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.640 with the big exception of Tenzing Norgay, who's who officially 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:37.360 was the first to summit Everest with um Edmund Hillary. 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.600 But um, these guys weren't doing this alone. They had, 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:43.880 depending on the expedition and how much money it had, 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:48.760 scores two hundreds of sherpas like attending them, helping them climb, 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.560 moving their stuff, um, and just basically making life much 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.800 easier on these guys. That said, I really don't want 0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:03.360 to um undermine the amount of effort and strenuousness that 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:06.320 talent these guys. Yeah, and talent that these guys underwent 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.959 and just figuring out how to get to Everest, to 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:14.679 start on that first expedition. Yeah, it's really cool to 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:21.360 read um contemporary, yes, contemporary accounts of what modern climbers 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:26.479 think of Mallory and his um not not just tenaciousness, 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.880 but his actual talent level and his climbing style. Uh, 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.640 was apparently very unique and just revered today by modern climbers. 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:38.160 Is And you know, it's not to take anything away 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.200 from what anyone does today, because what people can accomplish 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.040 the day is amazing. But they accomplished these things based 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:47.200 generally on you know, they can be taught by other people, 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.360 and like this is how it's done, like Mallory and 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:51.400 the King. We're figuring this out for the first time. 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.800 And by the way, I might have said Hillary instead 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.679 of Mallory because I'm just thinking of climbing hills, right, 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:00.559 and we should just go ahead and just to get 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.480 any confusion out of the way, Um Edmund Hillary Summited Everston, 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:08.360 I think nineteen fifty three, we're talking about the first 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.880 expeditions to Everest again in n Mallory and Hillary I 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.080 don't believe ever met. They were of different generations of climbers, 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:19.040 but Mallory was considered one of the pioneers as were 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:23.000 the other men in his expeditions that he went on. Alright, 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:26.000 So if I said Hillary, I meant Mallory. Are we 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.600 all good? I think we're good? Yeah, okay, all right. 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.640 So they got permission again for this trip in nineteen 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:37.920 twenty one, and Mallory was in his early thirties. He 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.320 was included in this first group and I think was 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:43.840 really chomping at the bit to do so. He has 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.800 a wife and three young kids at home, but really 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.920 nothing could stop him from from going on this first 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.680 scouting trip. No, and he was thirty three on the trip, 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:58.400 and he says basically, hey, um dear, I'm going to 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:00.520 quit my job and leave you in the children for 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.640 I don't know, seven months at least to go on 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.360 this expedition see you. And that's where he went. But 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.160 he did say to his wife, here's what I'll do. 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.160 I'll take this picture of you, babe, and I will 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:15.640 carry it with me always and I will put I 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.839 will place you at the top of Everest to live 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.720 there forevermore encased in ice when I get up there. Yeah, 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:23.800 and I'm sure he probably took it with him on 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.600 the first expedition, but the first expedition wasn't planning on 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:32.240 submitting Everest, but from what I gather from Mallory, he 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:33.880 would he would have been down to give it a 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.560 shot that first time out. Like that's how obsessed with 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:41.240 Everest that that man became right and he actually was 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.400 really successful. That the expedition was this was again the 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.960 first expedition by the English to map um Everest, and 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.280 they managed to do it. They managed to find a 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:56.199 way onto Everest what's called the North Call, which is 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.160 a ridge that connects one mountain to another. And they 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.400 found that north which is the way still today. If 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.520 you're coming from the north from the Tibetan side up Everest, 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:10.120 do you still use that route that these guys mapped in. Yeah, 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.720 And it's it's important to point out um which side 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:15.760 that they would have gone up then and what side 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.840 you go up now? Because uh, there is a route 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:24.200 that China kind of secured and basically has held that 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:28.120 Americans can't go, and that'll that'll be a key sort 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.800 of later on in this mystery. Pould have been in that, yeah, 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:34.439 because China invaded Tibetan nineteen fifty and said this side 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:38.160 of the mountain is closed to Westerners. But this happened, 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:43.199 That happened to three decades after Mallory and his expeditions. Um, 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.880 so they were using that north route, and still to 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.800 this day, the north route is considered technically more difficult 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.920 because it requires you to spend more time at higher 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:57.840 elevations with you know, it's attendant lower oxygen concentration, which 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.080 makes the whole thing way harder. And then secondly, the 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.679 way in through the north route requires twenty two miles 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.760 of walking just to get from base camp to the top, 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:11.360 whereas the South route, which is what Westerners used today 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.040 coming from the Nepalese side, is about twelve and three 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:18.439 quarter miles of walking. Nothing to sneeze at still, but 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.240 it just kind of underscores the just how hard the 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.520 things that these guys were doing with zero equipment. All Right, 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.480 so I think it's a good time for a break. Sure, 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.840 I'm gonna finally sort out the difference between Hillary and Mallory. 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:40.520 It sounds like a eighties sitcom. No, al right, So 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.400 I'm gonna work all that out and we'll be right back. 0:13:45.400 --> 0:14:07.600 Stuff you should know. Okay, we're back, Um, and I 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:09.360 want to go over a little more about when you 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.040 how you get to a mountain, And we don't have 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.120 to go in great detail, but you're basically going up 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.920 one mountain to get to that ridge that connects that 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.080 smaller mountain to Everest, the taller mountain, right, But to 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:26.960 get there requires hiking, mountain climbing, ice climbing, rock climbing, um, 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.640 every kind of climbing you can imagine. And one of 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:31.400 the first things you have to do, no matter whether 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.680 whether you come from the North route or the South route, 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.880 is cross the glacier. And that is way harder than 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:41.240 it sounds. Yeah, I mean, this thing is, you know, 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:44.880 surrounded in part by glaciers, and like you said, you're 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.680 you're there are so many different disciplines if you're going 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:54.520 to do something like Everest, and especially in nineteen two that, uh, 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:58.000 I just don't think we can overstate like the near 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:02.120 impossibility of this feat the time. Yeah, especially with the glacier. 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:05.360 There's crevasses. They can be really deep, um, you know, 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.800 a hundred or more feet deep, and you can fall 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.520 into that and die. There can be ice slides it's 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.880 also known as avalanches. They can come and bury you. 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.200 There's something called I think sea corps, which are house 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.880 size blocks of ice that you sometimes have to climb 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:24.080 that you could also topple and be crushed by. Like, 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:27.120 that's just the glacier. That's like the first obstacle to 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.840 get toward the mountain. And again they were doing this 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.480 with zero equipment. Yeah, I mean we did. We did 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.440 a whole episode on ice climbing, right, we totally did. 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:39.720 And I remember thinking that's so we talked about sea 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:43.080 corps okay, good, all right? Yeah, I thought it sounded familiar, 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.160 and I also was like, yeah, ice climbing is really hard. 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:51.200 I know that from experience and researching it. Yeah. Well, 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.560 I mean this one, the Shrip episode was really good. 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:56.960 Ice climbing was good. I believe we did one on 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.520 dead bodies on Everest. Yeah, and the one time ago 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.120 we did one on altitude sickness too. Yeah, so this 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:08.040 all comes together. Uh. The point is it's really really 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:10.640 hard and there are so many ways to die. Yeah, 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.480 what else wants to kill you up there, chuck that 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:17.560 they weren't aware of until that expedition. The YETI. Yeah, 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.240 that's where the YETI was introduced, or at least the 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.680 concept was introduced to Westerners, who brought it back. Um, 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.400 and then I believe on a later like nineteen fifty 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:31.760 one expedition, a guy named Eric Shipton took some photos 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.280 of what we're supposed to be YETI tracks, and that's 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.160 when like the west really went wild for the YETI. 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:43.880 That's right, So let's catch ourselves up. It's September one 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:47.760 when they reach the North Coal and this is where 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:49.640 they're like, all right, we think this is it. We 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.680 think we have found a path that can actually get us. 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.000 They didn't realize there would one day be an easier path, probably, 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:57.960 but they said, we think this is the way to go. 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.840 And it should be noted that not only these expedition 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:05.480 trips to sort of map things out, but each subsequent 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:10.360 attempt to ascend Everest that ended up in I don't 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:11.679 know what. I don't want to say failure, but I 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.159 guess it is failure if they didn't accomplish it. But 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:16.840 each one of yet each one of those is really 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:21.560 important too, because you know, every higher peak that you 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.600 get to, you're able to sort of establish uh of 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.480 course not everywhere, but you're able to establish camps along 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.280 the way, and these camps are then used later on 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.359 uh as you know, base camps like one, five, six, 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.040 et cetera. In fact, it maybe six might have been 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.840 the highest camp at the time, right, Yeah, yeah, for 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.399 sure and then so but but it's super important to 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:47.479 establish that for like all the hikers to come. Just 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.760 because it was a failed attempt doesn't mean a lot 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.800 of great stuff wasn't accomplished. Yeah, because if you are 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.800 hiking or you're climbing up a mountain and there's a 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.080 higher camp that you're coming up to, you can make 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.120 your way over the day to that camp and then 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.320 just stay there for the night. If there's not a 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.000 higher camp, you have to turn around at some point 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.840 and make your way to that next lower camp to survive, 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:14.040 because you cannot be caught overnight on Everest anywhere at 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.200 these elevations that these guys are hiking at um without 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.560 a tent and or a sleeping bag, or you're going 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:21.240 to die. That's all there is to it. You can, 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.359 a human being can't survive on the you know, the 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.400 higher altitudes of Everest without that kind of stuff. So yes, 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.560 establishing a camp is an enormous thing. But also they're 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:36.760 learning stuff firsthand about how humans respond to low oxygen concentrations, 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.480 what the weather conditions are, like what time of year 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.280 you can hike? Like every detail is a brand new 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.679 novel detail that is really crucial in understanding how to 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.879 get to the top eventually. Yeah, like what time of 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:52.040 day you have to start out, uh, in order to 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.200 get up there and safely get back down because some people, 0:18:55.600 --> 0:19:00.359 including Hillary, Yes, Hillary, um, and it's a thorny so object. 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.200 But some peoples, as far as the Mystery of Mallory goes, 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.480 some people don't consider it a successful assent unless you 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:10.520 come back down. Um. And that's kind of the thing. 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:12.760 And I think Hillary was one of those and his 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.199 family also said, hey, listen, not to slag anyone, but 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:18.840 we kind of only consider it a success if you 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:21.640 go up and you're able to come back down and 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:24.119 and live to tell about it, essentially. Yeah, And I 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:26.399 think that was which is an interesting point. Yeah, but 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:30.280 I think that point was made by Hillary himself, which 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:33.640 saying yeah, he's yeah, He's like, well, I mean, even 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:35.320 if you've made it to the top, it doesn't count. 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:38.760 Like I'm I'm doing this interview right now, right, I'm 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.480 sitting here, so, um, there's one thing I want to 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.600 point out that I don't know has become clear. Yet 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:45.760 it's clear to me because we did this research and 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.080 I found out what the deal was. But you might 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:50.880 be asking yourself, why was mountain climbing so big at 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.600 this time? Why were these people doing this? And um, 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:57.560 there's a really good explanation for that. Everest itself was 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:01.040 considered the third pole because people had already made it 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.399 to the South Pole and the North Pole. We didn't 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.200 yet have the technology to explore the deep ocean or space, 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.439 and we had been almost everywhere else on Earth, so 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:13.440 this was like the last place for humans too, I guess, 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:17.600 basically conquer or pit their endurance against. And that's why 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.919 it was so attractive to people. Yes, and that was 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:24.640 a very uh eloquent way to say that. I think 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:28.280 we should mention that Mallory himself is the very person 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:32.040 who very famously coined the term because it's there when 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.560 asked why they would try to do something like this, 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:39.200 why climb mountains? Because it's there? That alone makes him 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:44.720 just worth remembering. You know what a cool response, Absolutely, 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:47.160 are you going to eat that big mac? Because it's there? 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:50.680 Everything that's ever come since then where somebody says because 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:57.119 it's there, you're actually quoting George Mallory, that's right, um, 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.000 all right, so let's talk for a second about oxygen 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.639 and um. Low oxygen is no good for the human body. 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:07.440 And we've mentioned several times that your oxygen levels are 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:11.879 very low when you're ascending everest. And these days they 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.080 make it really easy on you, it's all um. You know, 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.520 the kind of oxygen they take is very easy to uh, 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:22.560 to take. They make it very user friendly. But back 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:27.080 then they had like glassed bottles of oxygen that were 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:29.320 carried in like wooden crates, and it was a real 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:33.080 pain to get there. It was super super heavy. UM. 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:35.439 But they knew at the time, you know, while they 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:39.520 learned that they would absolutely need this stuff. UM. But 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:42.480 Mallory was sort of, I don't I don't think indifferent. 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:44.800 I think he was sort of annoyed by the whole 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:47.760 thing that you actually had to take this stuff, to 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:50.840 the point where he didn't even use them, I believe 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:54.040 in the nineteen one test run, right, No, I don't believe. 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:57.280 So I don't think he did either in the expedition 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.879 that followed where they actually did try to make some um. 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.240 And it wasn't for years before he was like Okay, 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:06.080 maybe oxygen is a good idea. UM. Some of them 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:08.959 even thought it was like a hindrance in general because 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:11.600 it was an extra thirty pounds that you had to 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:15.879 carry up this mountain. And if you watch, um, if 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:20.840 you watch video of people climbing Everest today, especially as 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:23.200 they get closer and closer to the top and there's 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:27.959 less and less oxygen, even yeah, they do, even they 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:31.800 seem to like have regret for being where they but 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:35.160 even with oxygen on, if you watch them, they'll take 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:37.199 a step so one foot and then they'll bring the 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:40.480 other foot up and maybe they've traversed a foot of 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:43.560 Everest right then, and then they have to wait like 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:47.600 fifteen thirty seconds before they make the next one because 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:51.320 they're that tired because there's that little oxygen. And that's 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.360 with oxygen on. So these guys were trying these kind 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:58.879 of a sense without oxygen, I can't imagine, like, you know, 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:01.240 how you would even do that. And it's actually it's 0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:05.360 not clear whether you really could summit Everest without oxygen, 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:08.080 although I think people have tried and maybe even been successful, 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:10.960 so I guess it would be clear. Yes, So in 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:14.960