1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and this is Stuff you should Know 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: lost on the Mountain Top edition, but not in Tennessee 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: because this has nothing to do with the Beverly Hillbillies 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: at all. Wow, that was a roundabout funny intro. I 7 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: didn't even know it was coming thirty seconds ago. Uh No, 8 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: we're not talking about Tennessee. We were talking about um 9 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: one of the heroes of of mountaineering and mountain climbing, 10 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: certainly Mr George Mallory, and the great mystery to me 11 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: unsettled mystery on whether or not he ever made it 12 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: to the top of Edvers. Yes, Edvers right. So boy, yeah, 13 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: this is a tough start, Chuck, because I just realized 14 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: what I referenced was the Davy Crockett theme, not Beverly Hillbilly. 15 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: So everybody save your emails. Okay, all you Beverly Hillbillies, 16 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: cause players save your savior emails. So, okay, we're talking 17 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: about Mount Everest. We're not talking about Davy Crockett or 18 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: the Beverly Hillbillies. We're talking about Um. George Mallory and 19 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: to a lesser extent kind of unfairly but also kind 20 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: of fairly his climbing companions, Sandy Irvine and George Mallory 21 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: is extraordinarily famous. Not just in the climbing community. He's 22 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: a legend in the climbing community, Chuck. But you and 23 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: I know about him. I knew about Mallory, didn't you 24 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: before all this? Uh? Yeah, at least heard his name, 25 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: had a general idea about him, right, sure, named two 26 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: other climbers exactly, the guy from that free solo documentary 27 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: count and um, and well all the sherpa. I mean 28 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: we it makes great pains to point out the sherpa, 29 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: but uh, suffice to say, all you have to do 30 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: is go back and listen to our episode sharp a 31 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: Warm Friendly Living, in which we dedicate an entire episode 32 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: to the usually nameless serpa, who are usually standing just 33 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: out of frame of some white dude saying, yeah, I 34 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: climbed Everest again, but here, go ahead and get your 35 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: picture taken, right, And they just kind of slowly shoved 36 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: them to the side. But yeah, but um, despite your 37 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: best efforts, you still managed to prove my point. Yeah, 38 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: George Mallory is extremely famous and up to his thirties, 39 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: it did not look like it was going to go 40 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: that way because he started out this very famous mountain 41 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: climber and mountaineer and early mountain climber mountaineer too. That's 42 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: something that I feel as a beat will hit throughout 43 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: this episode that these guys that Mallory was climbing with, 44 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: we're using like they were making some of their own gear. 45 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: They were figuring out mountaineering techniques as they went along. 46 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: It was like a brand new thing that people were doing. 47 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,679 Speaker 1: And George Mallory was among the earliest people doing that. Yeah, 48 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: there's that one. Uh, I don't know if it was 49 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: a journalist or somebody was talking about pictures of the 50 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: actual attempt to climb Everest and he said, these guys 51 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: look like they had gone out for a picnic and 52 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: were hit by a snowstorm, right, and just in how 53 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: they were dressed. You know, they were in like tweed 54 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: jackets and stuff. Yeah, and um, hobnail boots, so just 55 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: like some leather boots with some spikes attached to him. 56 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: Like just nothing you would even climb a hill in 57 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: these days, let alone Mount Everest. But that's what they 58 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: were wearing. So George Mallory didn't start out as showing 59 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: signs he was going to be famous. He was kind 60 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: of a left leaning, progressive intellectual school teacher. Um, he 61 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: did rub elbows with John Maynard Keynes and Virginia Woolf 62 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: from the Bloomberry group Bloomsberry. Yeah, but that was probably 63 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: the greatest brush with fame that he had up until 64 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: he started hitting Mount Everest and making that basically his 65 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: stated goal in life. Yeah. I mean, he got into 66 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: hiking and mountaineering when he was in his late teens 67 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: and really fell in loved with it. But you know, 68 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: as Ed Keenly points out, it was, you know, it 69 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: was such a new sport that people didn't even really know, 70 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: Like they haven't even charted like the highest mountains in 71 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: the world up into a very i mean what I 72 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: consider a pretty late point when you think about like 73 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: expeditions that Lewis and Clark made. It was, uh in 74 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty two when they finally finally figured out that 75 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: Everest was the tallest peak. Yeah, like up to eighteen 76 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 1: fifty two, they were basically at the point of that 77 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: one's tall. Oh look at that one. That's a tall 78 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: one too. Yeah, I wish we could put him next 79 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: to each other exactly. So there was actually a guy 80 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: named uh right On Sigtar who was an Indian surveyor 81 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: who used data that the English had um produced during 82 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: their occupy and of India um to calculate just exactly 83 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: how tall Mount Everest was, because they really did settle 84 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: on Everest just by sight. They're like, that might be 85 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: the tallest mountain we've ever seen, and indeed it turned 86 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: out at twenty nine thousand, thirty two ft. Mount Everest 87 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: was in the mid nineteenth century and still is today 88 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: the tallest mountain in the entire world. And they named 89 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: it Everest after the director of the survey in India. 90 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: Of course they did, Sir George Everest. But if you 91 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: asked it Tibetan, what's the name of that big old 92 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: mountain over there, they would tell you Chomo Lugma, which 93 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: means mother goddess of the world in Tibetan. So even 94 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: the Tibetans were like, this is clearly the world's tallest mountain. Yeah, 95 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: And of course they had, you know, their own names 96 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: for it, but we generally don't know those names because 97 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: they would come along later and just name it after 98 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: just some dude, but we some some englishman. I mean Chomlongma. 99 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: That's definitely one of them. No, I know, but to 100 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: tend people what m Longa is, right, and name two 101 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: other famous climbers. Yes, but the long and short of 102 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: it is, I guess the tall and short of it is. 103 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: They realized that Everest was the tallest thing in eighteen 104 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: fifty two, but big deal. They couldn't do anything about it. 105 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: They could just kind of gaze upon it. It would 106 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: be decades and decades before anyone even thought that they 107 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: might be able to climb Everest. Because here's the deal. 108 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: Getting to Everest and climbing it is, uh like, ascending 109 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: the peak is one thing, but just getting to that 110 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: point is I don't know, the battle. I would say easily. 111 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: Most people think you look at the mountain, you just 112 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: climb up the base and go up to the side 113 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: and you're done. But no, you have to basically traverse 114 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: mountain ranges. Mountain mountains just don't exist on their own. 115 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: They're part of ranges and you don't really think about it. 116 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: But you have to climb all these other little mini 117 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: mountains to get to the big mountain in the first place, 118 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: and this can be walks of you know, dozens or 119 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,239 Speaker 1: scores of miles and not walk it's not a straight 120 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: walk over a plane. And then you get to the 121 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: edge of the mountain, you go up like you're going 122 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: up and up and up, and you're existing at higher 123 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,559 Speaker 1: and higher altitudes, which the English people who were um 124 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: who are doing this at first are we're not used to. 125 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: So they were doing this with basically altitude sickness and 126 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: all the stuff that comes with that. Alright, so let's 127 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: go to and the stage is sort of set to 128 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: where they feel like it might be possible to actually 129 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: accomplish something like this. And the Royal Geographic Society got 130 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: together with the Alpine Club UH to form and they 131 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: didn't like permanently come together, but they worked together to 132 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: form the Mount Everest Committee to say, all right, let's 133 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: let's let's give this a go, old boy. And they 134 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: got permission from Tibet in ninety one to go on 135 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: a scouting trip. And this was a trip where they 136 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: would just kind of figure out how to climb Everest. 137 00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: Like it wasn't like they just said all right, let's 138 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: give it a go and see if we can get 139 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: to the top, Like they had to take uh several 140 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: trips just to sort of map out what they thought 141 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: would be a feasible way to even try to get 142 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: to the top. Right, Apparently no one from Europe had 143 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: been within sixty miles of Everest itself, so this was 144 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: all new, uncharted territory basically for these guys. And again 145 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: it's really important to say, like we're we're going to 146 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: be telling the story from the English point of view, 147 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: and like you said, the sherpa rarely figure into that. Um, 148 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: with the big exception of Tenzing Norgay, who's who officially 149 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: was the first to summit Everest with um Edmund Hillary. 150 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: But um, these guys weren't doing this alone. They had, 151 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: depending on the expedition and how much money it had, 152 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: scores two hundreds of sherpas like attending them, helping them climb, 153 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: moving their stuff, um, and just basically making life much 154 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: easier on these guys. That said, I really don't want 155 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: to um undermine the amount of effort and strenuousness that 156 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: talent these guys. Yeah, and talent that these guys underwent 157 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 1: and just figuring out how to get to Everest, to 158 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: start on that first expedition. Yeah, it's really cool to 159 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: read um contemporary, yes, contemporary accounts of what modern climbers 160 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:26,479 Speaker 1: think of Mallory and his um not not just tenaciousness, 161 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: but his actual talent level and his climbing style. Uh, 162 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: was apparently very unique and just revered today by modern climbers. 163 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: Is And you know, it's not to take anything away 164 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: from what anyone does today, because what people can accomplish 165 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: the day is amazing. But they accomplished these things based 166 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: generally on you know, they can be taught by other people, 167 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: and like this is how it's done, like Mallory and 168 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: the King. We're figuring this out for the first time. 169 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: And by the way, I might have said Hillary instead 170 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: of Mallory because I'm just thinking of climbing hills, right, 171 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 1: and we should just go ahead and just to get 172 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: any confusion out of the way, Um Edmund Hillary Summited Everston, 173 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: I think nineteen fifty three, we're talking about the first 174 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: expeditions to Everest again in n Mallory and Hillary I 175 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: don't believe ever met. They were of different generations of climbers, 176 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: but Mallory was considered one of the pioneers as were 177 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: the other men in his expeditions that he went on. Alright, 178 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: So if I said Hillary, I meant Mallory. Are we 179 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: all good? I think we're good? Yeah, okay, all right. 180 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: So they got permission again for this trip in nineteen 181 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: twenty one, and Mallory was in his early thirties. He 182 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: was included in this first group and I think was 183 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: really chomping at the bit to do so. He has 184 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: a wife and three young kids at home, but really 185 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: nothing could stop him from from going on this first 186 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: scouting trip. No, and he was thirty three on the trip, 187 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: and he says basically, hey, um dear, I'm going to 188 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: quit my job and leave you in the children for 189 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: I don't know, seven months at least to go on 190 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: this expedition see you. And that's where he went. But 191 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: he did say to his wife, here's what I'll do. 192 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: I'll take this picture of you, babe, and I will 193 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: carry it with me always and I will put I 194 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,839 Speaker 1: will place you at the top of Everest to live 195 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: there forevermore encased in ice when I get up there. Yeah, 196 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: and I'm sure he probably took it with him on 197 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: the first expedition, but the first expedition wasn't planning on 198 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: submitting Everest, but from what I gather from Mallory, he 199 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: would he would have been down to give it a 200 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: shot that first time out. Like that's how obsessed with 201 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: Everest that that man became right and he actually was 202 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: really successful. That the expedition was this was again the 203 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: first expedition by the English to map um Everest, and 204 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: they managed to do it. They managed to find a 205 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: way onto Everest what's called the North Call, which is 206 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: a ridge that connects one mountain to another. And they 207 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: found that north which is the way still today. If 208 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: you're coming from the north from the Tibetan side up Everest, 209 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: do you still use that route that these guys mapped in. Yeah, 210 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: And it's it's important to point out um which side 211 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: that they would have gone up then and what side 212 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: you go up now? Because uh, there is a route 213 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: that China kind of secured and basically has held that 214 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: Americans can't go, and that'll that'll be a key sort 215 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: of later on in this mystery. Pould have been in that, yeah, 216 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: because China invaded Tibetan nineteen fifty and said this side 217 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: of the mountain is closed to Westerners. But this happened, 218 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 1: That happened to three decades after Mallory and his expeditions. Um, 219 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: so they were using that north route, and still to 220 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: this day, the north route is considered technically more difficult 221 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: because it requires you to spend more time at higher 222 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: elevations with you know, it's attendant lower oxygen concentration, which 223 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: makes the whole thing way harder. And then secondly, the 224 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: way in through the north route requires twenty two miles 225 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: of walking just to get from base camp to the top, 226 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: whereas the South route, which is what Westerners used today 227 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: coming from the Nepalese side, is about twelve and three 228 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: quarter miles of walking. Nothing to sneeze at still, but 229 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: it just kind of underscores the just how hard the 230 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: things that these guys were doing with zero equipment. All Right, 231 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: so I think it's a good time for a break. Sure, 232 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna finally sort out the difference between Hillary and Mallory. 233 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: It sounds like a eighties sitcom. No, al right, So 234 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna work all that out and we'll be right back. 235 00:13:45,400 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: Stuff you should know. Okay, we're back, Um, and I 236 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: want to go over a little more about when you 237 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: how you get to a mountain, And we don't have 238 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: to go in great detail, but you're basically going up 239 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: one mountain to get to that ridge that connects that 240 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: smaller mountain to Everest, the taller mountain, right, But to 241 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: get there requires hiking, mountain climbing, ice climbing, rock climbing, um, 242 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: every kind of climbing you can imagine. And one of 243 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: the first things you have to do, no matter whether 244 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: whether you come from the North route or the South route, 245 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: is cross the glacier. And that is way harder than 246 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: it sounds. Yeah, I mean, this thing is, you know, 247 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: surrounded in part by glaciers, and like you said, you're 248 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: you're there are so many different disciplines if you're going 249 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: to do something like Everest, and especially in nineteen two that, uh, 250 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: I just don't think we can overstate like the near 251 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: impossibility of this feat the time. Yeah, especially with the glacier. 252 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: There's crevasses. They can be really deep, um, you know, 253 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: a hundred or more feet deep, and you can fall 254 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: into that and die. There can be ice slides it's 255 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: also known as avalanches. They can come and bury you. 256 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: There's something called I think sea corps, which are house 257 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: size blocks of ice that you sometimes have to climb 258 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: that you could also topple and be crushed by. Like, 259 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: that's just the glacier. That's like the first obstacle to 260 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: get toward the mountain. And again they were doing this 261 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: with zero equipment. Yeah, I mean we did. We did 262 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: a whole episode on ice climbing, right, we totally did. 263 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: And I remember thinking that's so we talked about sea 264 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: corps okay, good, all right? Yeah, I thought it sounded familiar, 265 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: and I also was like, yeah, ice climbing is really hard. 266 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: I know that from experience and researching it. Yeah. Well, 267 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: I mean this one, the Shrip episode was really good. 268 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: Ice climbing was good. I believe we did one on 269 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: dead bodies on Everest. Yeah, and the one time ago 270 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: we did one on altitude sickness too. Yeah, so this 271 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: all comes together. Uh. The point is it's really really 272 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: hard and there are so many ways to die. Yeah, 273 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: what else wants to kill you up there, chuck that 274 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: they weren't aware of until that expedition. The YETI. Yeah, 275 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: that's where the YETI was introduced, or at least the 276 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: concept was introduced to Westerners, who brought it back. Um, 277 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: and then I believe on a later like nineteen fifty 278 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: one expedition, a guy named Eric Shipton took some photos 279 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: of what we're supposed to be YETI tracks, and that's 280 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: when like the west really went wild for the YETI. 281 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: That's right, So let's catch ourselves up. It's September one 282 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: when they reach the North Coal and this is where 283 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: they're like, all right, we think this is it. We 284 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: think we have found a path that can actually get us. 285 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: They didn't realize there would one day be an easier path, probably, 286 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: but they said, we think this is the way to go. 287 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: And it should be noted that not only these expedition 288 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: trips to sort of map things out, but each subsequent 289 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 1: attempt to ascend Everest that ended up in I don't 290 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: know what. I don't want to say failure, but I 291 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: guess it is failure if they didn't accomplish it. But 292 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: each one of yet each one of those is really 293 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: important too, because you know, every higher peak that you 294 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: get to, you're able to sort of establish uh of 295 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: course not everywhere, but you're able to establish camps along 296 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: the way, and these camps are then used later on 297 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: uh as you know, base camps like one, five, six, 298 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: et cetera. In fact, it maybe six might have been 299 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: the highest camp at the time, right, Yeah, yeah, for 300 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 1: sure and then so but but it's super important to 301 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,479 Speaker 1: establish that for like all the hikers to come. Just 302 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: because it was a failed attempt doesn't mean a lot 303 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: of great stuff wasn't accomplished. Yeah, because if you are 304 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: hiking or you're climbing up a mountain and there's a 305 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: higher camp that you're coming up to, you can make 306 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: your way over the day to that camp and then 307 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: just stay there for the night. If there's not a 308 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: higher camp, you have to turn around at some point 309 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: and make your way to that next lower camp to survive, 310 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: because you cannot be caught overnight on Everest anywhere at 311 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: these elevations that these guys are hiking at um without 312 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: a tent and or a sleeping bag, or you're going 313 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: to die. That's all there is to it. You can, 314 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: a human being can't survive on the you know, the 315 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: higher altitudes of Everest without that kind of stuff. So yes, 316 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: establishing a camp is an enormous thing. But also they're 317 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: learning stuff firsthand about how humans respond to low oxygen concentrations, 318 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: what the weather conditions are, like what time of year 319 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: you can hike? Like every detail is a brand new 320 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 1: novel detail that is really crucial in understanding how to 321 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: get to the top eventually. Yeah, like what time of 322 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: day you have to start out, uh, in order to 323 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: get up there and safely get back down because some people, 324 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: including Hillary, Yes, Hillary, um, and it's a thorny so object. 325 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: But some peoples, as far as the Mystery of Mallory goes, 326 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: some people don't consider it a successful assent unless you 327 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: come back down. Um. And that's kind of the thing. 328 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: And I think Hillary was one of those and his 329 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 1: family also said, hey, listen, not to slag anyone, but 330 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: we kind of only consider it a success if you 331 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: go up and you're able to come back down and 332 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: and live to tell about it, essentially. Yeah, And I 333 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: think that was which is an interesting point. Yeah, but 334 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: I think that point was made by Hillary himself, which 335 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 1: saying yeah, he's yeah, He's like, well, I mean, even 336 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: if you've made it to the top, it doesn't count. 337 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm doing this interview right now, right, I'm 338 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: sitting here, so, um, there's one thing I want to 339 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: point out that I don't know has become clear. Yet 340 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: it's clear to me because we did this research and 341 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: I found out what the deal was. But you might 342 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: be asking yourself, why was mountain climbing so big at 343 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: this time? Why were these people doing this? And um, 344 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: there's a really good explanation for that. Everest itself was 345 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: considered the third pole because people had already made it 346 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: to the South Pole and the North Pole. We didn't 347 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: yet have the technology to explore the deep ocean or space, 348 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: and we had been almost everywhere else on Earth, so 349 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: this was like the last place for humans too, I guess, 350 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: basically conquer or pit their endurance against. And that's why 351 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 1: it was so attractive to people. Yes, and that was 352 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 1: a very uh eloquent way to say that. I think 353 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: we should mention that Mallory himself is the very person 354 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: who very famously coined the term because it's there when 355 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: asked why they would try to do something like this, 356 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: why climb mountains? Because it's there? That alone makes him 357 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: just worth remembering. You know what a cool response, Absolutely, 358 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: are you going to eat that big mac? Because it's there? 359 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: Everything that's ever come since then where somebody says because 360 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: it's there, you're actually quoting George Mallory, that's right, um, 361 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: all right, so let's talk for a second about oxygen 362 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: and um. Low oxygen is no good for the human body. 363 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: And we've mentioned several times that your oxygen levels are 364 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: very low when you're ascending everest. And these days they 365 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: make it really easy on you, it's all um. You know, 366 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: the kind of oxygen they take is very easy to uh, 367 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: to take. They make it very user friendly. But back 368 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: then they had like glassed bottles of oxygen that were 369 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: carried in like wooden crates, and it was a real 370 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: pain to get there. It was super super heavy. UM. 371 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 1: But they knew at the time, you know, while they 372 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: learned that they would absolutely need this stuff. UM. But 373 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: Mallory was sort of, I don't I don't think indifferent. 374 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: I think he was sort of annoyed by the whole 375 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: thing that you actually had to take this stuff, to 376 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: the point where he didn't even use them, I believe 377 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: in the nineteen one test run, right, No, I don't believe. 378 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: So I don't think he did either in the expedition 379 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: that followed where they actually did try to make some um. 380 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: And it wasn't for years before he was like Okay, 381 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: maybe oxygen is a good idea. UM. Some of them 382 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,959 Speaker 1: even thought it was like a hindrance in general because 383 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: it was an extra thirty pounds that you had to 384 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: carry up this mountain. And if you watch, um, if 385 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: you watch video of people climbing Everest today, especially as 386 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: they get closer and closer to the top and there's 387 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,959 Speaker 1: less and less oxygen, even yeah, they do, even they 388 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: seem to like have regret for being where they but 389 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: even with oxygen on, if you watch them, they'll take 390 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 1: a step so one foot and then they'll bring the 391 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: other foot up and maybe they've traversed a foot of 392 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: Everest right then, and then they have to wait like 393 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: fifteen thirty seconds before they make the next one because 394 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: they're that tired because there's that little oxygen. And that's 395 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: with oxygen on. So these guys were trying these kind 396 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 1: of a sense without oxygen, I can't imagine, like, you know, 397 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: how you would even do that. And it's actually it's 398 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 1: not clear whether you really could summit Everest without oxygen, 399 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: although I think people have tried and maybe even been successful, 400 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: so I guess it would be clear. Yes, So in 401 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: twenty two, UM, I believe Mallory and a couple of 402 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 1: other climbers hit twenty six thousand, eight hundred feet, which 403 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: is remarkable, before they decided to turn back. Uh. And 404 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: again this is without using oxygen on that twenty to try. 405 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: And then this is the part where I was a 406 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: little bit confused. Maybe you can clear it up. When 407 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: did the avalanche happen? Was that in twenty one where uh, 408 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: seven people were killed? Yeah? So No, in twenty one 409 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: there was an avalanche that wiped out some of the 410 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: camps they had established but didn't hurt anybody. Twenty two 411 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 1: they weren't as lucky, and seven sherpa died in an avalanche, 412 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: and Mallory kind of considered himself at least partially responsible, 413 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: even though he wasn't the only person who pushed for 414 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: this last attempt for the summit, um, he was one 415 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: of them. And an avalanche was triggered by that third 416 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: attempt and killed some of the people further down on 417 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: the mountain when they were covered up by it. Yeah, 418 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: and there are people you know who have looked back 419 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: in kind of poop pooed Mallori's um, poop pooed his carelessness. 420 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: And I don't know if it was carelessness. I don't 421 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: think it was carelessness just because he was a careless person. 422 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: I think it was a little more his tenacious attitude 423 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: sort of overrode good sense sometimes. Is the way I 424 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: took it? Is that how you took it? I think 425 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: that was part of it. But I also get the 426 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: impression that he was like just downright flighty. Oh was he? Yeah? 427 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: Like there was. He was in charge of the camera 428 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: for the expedition, and apparently he put the film in 429 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: backwards but was taking pictures the whole time and they 430 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: didn't turn out because he didn't have the film incorrectly. 431 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: Like that's classic. Sure, but if you do that things 432 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: like that over and over again, you start to develop 433 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: a reputation as being flighty. I guess. So the thing 434 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 1: I think is cameras, Like operating the camera wasn't second 435 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 1: nature at this point in history, and it's like, just 436 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: give this guy a camera. I don't know. I could 437 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: see him just being like I don't even know what 438 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: this thing is or how to really operate it, Like 439 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: don't don't give it to me. They're like, well, you 440 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: kind of have to take it, and he's like, all right, 441 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: I'll do my best. I mean I kind of created 442 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: that narrative, but it was a good one. He was 443 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: good at mountain climbing. He may not have been a 444 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: good photographer. Okay, fair enough. But there's a very famous 445 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: um quote by a doctor Tom Longstaff, who was the 446 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 1: doctor on the expedition in said Mallory was quite unfit 447 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: to be placed in charge of anything, including himself. So 448 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: I mean people definitely thought of him. I'm gonna say 449 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: flight again, and I'm not judging. I'm pretty flighting myself. Um. 450 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: You me would certainly tell you that. Um. But so 451 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: I think I recognize it when I see it. Maybe 452 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: that's what it is as you meet your doctor Longstaff. Yep, 453 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna start calling her that now, should be like, 454 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: what are you talking about? I looked that up to 455 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: remember our surnames episode. I was like, oh, is that 456 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: a dirty last name? I know. That's what it turns out. 457 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,719 Speaker 1: If you were a bailiff or somebody involved in law enforcement, 458 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: you would have been carried like a long stick okay, 459 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: to probably beat people with. And that's where they got 460 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: that name. So his ancestor was involved in law enforcement. 461 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: I looked it up. I went long Staff surname Penis 462 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 1: and Dr long Staff definitelyast since like a born name. 463 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: Definitely all right, So now let's go to nineteen twenty four, 464 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: the the test runs had happened, the real attempts had happened, 465 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 1: and then finally nineteen rolls around. Uh, they didn't just 466 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: take the year off in nineteen three because they were tired. 467 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 1: They didn't get funding, like it costs a lot of 468 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: money and these people aren't like bank rolling in themselves, 469 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: so the Mount Everest Company could not raise the money 470 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: in twenty three, so he waited until nineteen four when 471 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: Mallory jumped up in class and said me, me, Me, 472 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 1: Me me again. Um. And almost didn't go though, because 473 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 1: one of his mates, George Finch, a fellow climber, was 474 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: I believe left off the list, and Mallory was like, 475 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: if he's not gonna go, I'm not there gonna go 476 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: And they said okay, and then he went, well, I 477 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: still want to go. He put on a fake mustache 478 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: and put himself down as George Hallary exactly. So um. 479 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: There was a guy who went um who was kind 480 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: of a surprise selection. His name was Andrew Sandy Irving 481 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: Irvine Sorry and um, Sandy Irvine was a student still, 482 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: he was an engineering student. That's actually one of the 483 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: reasons they brought him along. He wasn't a shlub as 484 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: far as mountaineering goes. He just was not nearly as 485 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: experienced as most of the people on that expedition. But 486 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: being an engineering student, he could fiddle and fuss with 487 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: the oxygen apparatus which had in cameras. Maybe yeah, probably 488 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: he knew how to put the film in the right direction. 489 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: But um that since I get the impression that since 490 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: the NTE and twenty two expeditions, it had become clear 491 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: to these these um these people on these expeditions, on 492 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: the expedition that oxygen was in fact, like really important 493 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: and to have somebody who could make these these um 494 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: rigs more efficient would be really, really valuable. So they 495 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: brought Sandy Irving Irvine along. Yeah. I also saw that 496 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 1: Irvine was, you know, despite his fiddler's reputation, was strong 497 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: as an ox Yeah. Yeah, he's us. Another nice thing, 498 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: if you see there's a famous picture of he and 499 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,959 Speaker 1: or him and um Mallory next to each other facing 500 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: the camera like posing for a picture, and he's easily 501 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: a full head taller than Mallory was and about his 502 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: wide too, so um, he was a big, big boy. Yeah. 503 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: And Mallory was very handsome too. We should note yes, 504 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: good looking dude. He really was very pretty. I think 505 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: you could say pretty bad. And then one other note 506 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: about Mallory on this to start off this expedition. Again, 507 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: this is the third expedition to Everest, and he was 508 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: the only member of this entire expedition who had have 509 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: been on all three expeditions, which again really underscores Mallory 510 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: was obsessed with summiting Everest. That's right, So to June one, now, 511 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: I think so man, alright, Mallory and George Bruce make 512 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: this first attempt. Uh, this one didn't work out when 513 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: basically the sherpas said all right, we're not going any 514 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: further is too dangerous. Uh, and they basically dropped their 515 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: stuff and turned back. So again this um, this one 516 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,959 Speaker 1: didn't work out. But one of the positives is they 517 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: established a camp at five thousand feet UM, which I 518 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: believe was was the tallest camp at the time or 519 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 1: the highest camp. Okay, yeah, so that's again that the 520 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: huge success for a summit attempt, right, even when the 521 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: following day, another couple of climbers, Edward Norton and t 522 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: Howard Summerville Um, made their own attempt on the summit. 523 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: Norton kept going beyond Summerville and he made it within 524 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: a thousand feet of the summit of Everest, which depending 525 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: on your perspective, sounds really close but actually isn't or 526 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: is actually super close even though it sounds far away. 527 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty close. It is, but if you 528 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: look at a map and see where twenty eight thousand 529 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: feet is and then we're twenty nine thousand feet is 530 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: she had a way to go, but far and away. 531 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: That was. That was the record, and it was Uh 532 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: there was a record that stood at least officially until 533 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: Hillary in Norgay Um summited Everest in so it was 534 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,239 Speaker 1: a big deal. But Norton in Summerville really paid for 535 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: their attempt. Um Summerville Uh he almost suffocated from a 536 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: high altitude cough, and the Norton developed snowblindness because they 537 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: would wear um goggles that were like basically sunglass goggles, 538 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: and you had to wear them during the day, not 539 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: just from the wind, but because the uv um was 540 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: really really um abundant because of the thin air up there, 541 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: so you would get what's called snowblindness, you would get 542 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: carotitus on your cornias. And that's what happened to Norton. 543 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: He burned his corneas from the reflected sunlight because he 544 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: didn't keep his goggles on long enough. And on the 545 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: way back down from twenties five thousand feet back down, uh, 546 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: he had to be helped. Every footstep had to be 547 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: placed by sherpas uh and the doctor um on the 548 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: on the trip, every foot, every footstep he made all 549 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: the way back down out of the everst area. That's amazing, 550 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: it really is. Alright, So on this third attempt, Mallory 551 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: is brought Irving. I'm sorry, why do you keep saying that? 552 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: I said because you said it brought Irvine along? And Uh, 553 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: they were sending notes down you know, they're sending messages 554 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: back down with srpos along the way basically yeah, I 555 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: love you. Uh. They're sending notes back down to the 556 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: other camps, basically giving reports on what's going on, saying 557 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: things are going well, the weather looks like we should 558 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: be able to do it. Um, we're gonna, we're gonna, 559 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna try and do this like tomorrow 560 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: or whatever. And so all the notes that were coming down, 561 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: we're pretty positive and um, basically everything we know about 562 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,959 Speaker 1: this comes from a gentleman uh geology, a gentleman geologist 563 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: named Noel O'Dell. It was actually a pretty big hero 564 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: in this story too. Yeah, he was pretty awesome actually, um. 565 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: And he lived to be ripe old man. Sorry, ripe 566 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: old age. Um. He spelled really bad. Yeah. And there's 567 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: a really cool interview with him from a Nova episode. 568 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: I can't remember what's called. It's from like the eighties 569 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: and they interviewed Noel Odell about this. So he factors 570 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: in big time in a minute. But O'Dell was um. 571 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: He went up to one of the high camps. He 572 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: wanted to look for fossils. Being a geologist, he also 573 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: brought up supplies of food and water to those higher 574 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: camps to help the climbers on their way back down. 575 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,719 Speaker 1: And this is the third attempt. Remember, the first attempt 576 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: didn't work, second attempt didn't work. It kind of resulted 577 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: in disaster. And then this third attempt was going to 578 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: be the last one. And Mallory said, hey, Irvine, why 579 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: don't you come with me? We're going to try to 580 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: make the summit of Everest. And there's something that you 581 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: need to know about this third attempt. Mallory was I 582 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: think thirty seven maybe by this time, and as far 583 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: as mountaineers and climbers go, especially back then, he was old. 584 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: This is probably going to be his last expedition to Everest, 585 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: and this attempt for the summit was the last attempt 586 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: on this expedition. Ergo, this was Mallory's last shot at 587 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: summiting Everest, and he was setting out from the high 588 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: as camp that had ever been established. Basically, I believe 589 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: it's the highest camp still today on that north route. 590 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: Al Right, it sounds like a great cliffhanger, no pun intended. 591 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: So let's take our final break here and we'll wrap 592 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: up the story right after this stuff you should know, alright, So, uh, 593 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: Mallory is on his last attempt as a human to 594 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: do the thing that he was obsessed with since he was, 595 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: you know, a young late teenager. Beautiful, beautiful, so so handsome. Uh. 596 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: Geologist Noel O'Dell is up there again. He is he 597 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: is doing sort of the cool, groovy Appalachian trail hang 598 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: out dude thing to people Yeah, he's doing some trail 599 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: magic up there. Um, and at twelve fifty he sees 600 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: Mallory and Irvine on the northeast ridge. But there are 601 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: a few hours and this is really key, there are 602 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: a few hours behind schedule from where they should be, 603 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: and there's a very narrow window again for like what 604 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 1: time of day you can pull this off and then 605 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,760 Speaker 1: safely get back down. So to be a few hours 606 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: behind schedule is a big deal on whether or not 607 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: you're gonna survive basically. So what he says, and we'll 608 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,919 Speaker 1: just go ahead and read the quote. What he says 609 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: he saw is the following. Uh, the entire summit Ridge 610 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: and final peak of Everest were unveiled. My eyes became 611 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 1: fixed on one tiny black spot beneath a rock step 612 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: in the ridge. The black spot moved. Another black spot 613 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: became apparent and moved up the snow to join the 614 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 1: other on the crest. The first then approached the great 615 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: rocks up and shortly emerged at the top. The second 616 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: did likewise. So right after that, Chuck, apparently the clouds 617 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 1: came back, and those two black spots that were he 618 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: took to be Irvine and Mallory disappeared from view, and 619 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: that was if that was Irvine and Mallory the last 620 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: time anybody saw them, and O'Dell would have been the 621 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: last to see them, which will become a crucial thing 622 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: later on, as we'll see. But um O'Dell uh kind 623 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: of waited for them to come back down to the camps. 624 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,720 Speaker 1: Remember he was in the high camps, and he waited 625 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 1: and he waited and he waited, and then he started 626 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: to get really worried. And here's where he became a hero, 627 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: like you were saying earlier. Yeah, so O'Dell is again, 628 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: he's not down there at at sea level. He is 629 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: hanging out up there trying to do the trail magic thing. 630 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: He's all of a sudden worried and he he basically 631 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: from Camp six, starts hiking around trying to find these 632 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: guys and and doesn't leave. He does. He just keeps 633 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: staying and he keeps making these assents. And I believe, 634 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: like two days in a row, made an assent over 635 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,919 Speaker 1: what like twenty s feet, Yeah, a couple of them, 636 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: and he go back to camp because he had to 637 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: again to survive. But then he would strike out like 638 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: as soon as he could. The next day to look 639 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: for them. I mean, that's why he's one of the heroes. Yeah, exactly, 640 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 1: and like again, I don't even know if he had 641 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: oxygen at that point. So he spent a couple of 642 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 1: days way up there looking for them, and finally from 643 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: the high camp he signaled back down to the lower camps, 644 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 1: to the base camp, and there was apparently a pre 645 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: arranged signal that they had they had come up with 646 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: for this third summit attempt, and um O'Dell laid it out. 647 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: It was six sleeping bags laid out in a cross, 648 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: which meant death, that they had died, that they hadn't 649 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: made it. And so in reply, the guy who led 650 00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:01,320 Speaker 1: them the expedition had a return signal saying like give up, hope, 651 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: come back down, And very sadly O'Dell did as as 652 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: he was instructed and came back down without Irvine, without Mallory, 653 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,359 Speaker 1: who remained up on the mountain as far as anyone knew. Yeah, 654 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: and at this point, um, he had been up there 655 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: for and this is over twenty three thousand feet. He 656 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,879 Speaker 1: had been up there for eleven days, and that's I mean, 657 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: surely no, uh, I don't think that had been done 658 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: before right, that's no picnic caught in a snowstorm. That's 659 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: some serious stuff. Yeah, and there's no way that these guys, 660 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: I mean, they were up there for two nights and 661 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: you're not going to survive one night. So it was 662 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: it was pretty clear those sleeping bags had to come 663 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: out at that point. Yeah, and so they said, you know, um, 664 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: they were really kind of unhappy on that done that 665 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: way back down, which again I don't think we said 666 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: that if you're coming up a mountain, you have to 667 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: acclimate over weeks little by little, and I believe you 668 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: have to do roughly the same thing coming back down. 669 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 1: So these guys had to basically have this party where 670 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 1: two people have been lost on there's summit attempt. They 671 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,359 Speaker 1: were glowam but at the same time they realized, like 672 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: you know, Mallory and Irvine had kind of embodied the 673 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 1: spirit of adventure and just trying and even risking your 674 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 1: life for you know this, this this noble attempt at 675 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,319 Speaker 1: It's something no one else had ever done. So it 676 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: was kind of a bittersweet thing their loss was. It 677 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,880 Speaker 1: wasn't entirely nothing but tragic. There was some silver lining 678 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 1: to it in the way that Mallory was remembered and 679 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,760 Speaker 1: thought of yeah, absolutely, uh and from that moment forward, 680 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: there you know ed. Kind of makes it sound like 681 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: the consensus is that they never reached the top, And 682 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: after reading all this stuff and a lot of other opinions, 683 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: I don't think I don't think that's true at all. 684 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: I think there's still debate on whether or not they 685 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: actually made it to the top. And there or a 686 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: bunch of cool little clues that kind of leads you 687 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,839 Speaker 1: down one way or the other along the way. Yeah, 688 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: one of them, Chuck was Odell and what he saw. 689 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 1: And there's a couple of things you need to know 690 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 1: about Odell. Number one, he was a geologist, and a 691 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,720 Speaker 1: lot of people say he just mistook some rocks for 692 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: Irvine and Mallory, the little tiny dots he thought he 693 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: saw moving. He's a geologist, making him very unlikely to 694 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 1: mistake rocks for people. And then secondly, he was well 695 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 1: known to have really good eyesight. Apparently he didn't need 696 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: glasses until he was in his nineties. So those two 697 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: things combined make it seem like he was probably the 698 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: best possible eye witness around. And O'Dell went to his 699 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: grave saying I saw them. They were moving, it was them, 700 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,319 Speaker 1: but exactly where he saw them kind of came up 701 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: for grabs. Yeah, so there are these uh three cliffs 702 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: sort of you know, if you go this route, there 703 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,359 Speaker 1: are three cliffs to get to the top, and they 704 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: called them steps step one, step two, step three. They 705 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: didn't know about these steps until they got there, obviously, 706 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 1: because no one had done this yet. And from what 707 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: he was talking about, he saw them on the second step. 708 00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 1: But there are a lot of people today that said no. 709 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: I think he probably saw them on the first step. 710 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,840 Speaker 1: At one point in his life he said that it 711 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: was the first step, but then he went back and 712 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,359 Speaker 1: said no. And I don't know if he was just 713 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: sort of a victim of kind of uh listening to 714 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: what other people had to say. But apparently later in 715 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: life he went back and was adamant that it was 716 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 1: the second step that he saw them on. Really okay, cool. 717 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: So here's the thing. If you were in the climbing 718 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,719 Speaker 1: community and you believe that um, at the very least Mallory, 719 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: if not Mallory and Irvine made it to the top 720 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 1: of Everest on that expedition on that third attempt. The 721 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: reason you think that is because you believe that Odell 722 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,799 Speaker 1: did see them climb up that second step, because that 723 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 1: second step was the last great obstacle to the top, 724 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: and had they made it up the second step, nothing 725 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,800 Speaker 1: would have stopped Mallory from continuing on to hit the summit. 726 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: Knowing that he probably would not ever make it down alive, 727 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: he still would have kept going on. So that's that's 728 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 1: what a lot of people think. The people who think 729 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 1: that he actually did make it. Uh kind of point 730 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: to Odell's eyewitness statements. Yeah, and that's in that interview 731 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: when he was what he was ninety seven years old, 732 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: O'Dell himself says that, you know, there would have been 733 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 1: nothing that would have stopped Mallory and Irvine. He believes 734 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 1: um even though dusk was approaching and they probably knew 735 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: it was a I guess a suicide mission at that point, 736 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: his feeling was that there's no way they would have 737 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,320 Speaker 1: stopped too. Yeah, because we didn't say when those clouds 738 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: came around, they brought with them a blizzard too, so 739 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 1: it was really terrible conditions. They were way late in 740 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: the day. There was basically no chance if they summited 741 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: that they could get back to that highest camp in 742 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: time for surviving the night. But that would not have 743 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: stopped them because they just would They just would have 744 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,400 Speaker 1: kept going. That's just what Mallory would have done. Pretty 745 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,440 Speaker 1: much everybody agrees on that. The distinction is whether he 746 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,839 Speaker 1: was on the first step or the second step, because 747 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,719 Speaker 1: if he was just on the first step, he still 748 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: had that second step ahead of him, he might not 749 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,600 Speaker 1: have made it. If he made the second step, he 750 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: definitely summited that seems to be what the consensus is. 751 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 1: All right, so you've got that. We can park that 752 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:10,360 Speaker 1: to the side. In the subsequent years, on different expeditions, 753 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: there have been little bits and pieces of evidence UH 754 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 1: found along the way. One in nineteen thirty three when 755 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:22,799 Speaker 1: irvines acts as ice acts was found, and you know, 756 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: you're not gonna just leave your ice ax behind. So 757 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,800 Speaker 1: basically they concluded that, um, something happened that that made 758 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: Irvine drop this ice ax, but they recovered it in 759 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:38,279 Speaker 1: thirty three, And then in nineteen seventy five, UH there 760 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,360 Speaker 1: were some Chinese Chinese climbers who made a successful summit 761 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 1: all the way to the top, and they were the 762 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,319 Speaker 1: only ones that could have gone this way because, like 763 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,360 Speaker 1: we said, earlier, the Chinese route was shut down basically 764 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 1: two Americans, and so it's not like that people before 765 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: the nineteen would have been taking this route. I think 766 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,920 Speaker 1: there was one American group that that snuck in and 767 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:06,320 Speaker 1: did so illegally. But one of the Chinese climbers said 768 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,760 Speaker 1: I found an English dead to another climber. Um. China 769 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 1: has always denied this and said that that's not true, uh, 770 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: and that it was a misunderstanding. And the um that climber, 771 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 1: actually his name was Wang Hung Bao died the next 772 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 1: day in an avalanche, so there was never like any 773 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,600 Speaker 1: follow up with him. In a really interesting ironic twist, 774 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:33,360 Speaker 1: Chuck Hung boo translate to so long staff in English. 775 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,879 Speaker 1: No really, I thought i'd get a bigger laugh out 776 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 1: of that. We'll just get well, it was believable enough 777 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,480 Speaker 1: to where I quite go so um. Yeah. So there's 778 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,840 Speaker 1: all this intrigue that's kind of gathering around this, this 779 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 1: idea that the Chinese had found at least one dead 780 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,319 Speaker 1: Englishman on their side of the mountain, the north side 781 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,879 Speaker 1: of the Tibetan side, where they shouldn't have been, which 782 00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,680 Speaker 1: means that yeah, it had to have been Irvine or Mallory. 783 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 1: So there was an expedition UM that came well, there's 784 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,640 Speaker 1: expedition that found an old oxygen bottle that was almost 785 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,279 Speaker 1: certainly Mallory or Irvines, And then all of the information 786 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:16,359 Speaker 1: kind of came together to um support a geo expedition 787 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 1: to actually find Irvine or Mallory, and they actually did. 788 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,600 Speaker 1: They found one of them, and at first they thought 789 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:26,839 Speaker 1: it was Irvine, right, yeah, they did, but they they 790 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: found Mallory. He was frozen, he was sun bleached, his 791 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 1: body was very well preserved. The items on him were 792 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,120 Speaker 1: very well preserved. Uh, they found him severely injured. Well, 793 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:42,680 Speaker 1: they found a couple of things. They found that he 794 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:47,160 Speaker 1: had a severely broken leg and some uh some rope 795 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,839 Speaker 1: trauma like ligature stuff around his waist. But what they 796 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,840 Speaker 1: really found, um that was severe was the cause of death, 797 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 1: which was a golf ball size hole in his forehead. Yeah, 798 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,120 Speaker 1: they and it was a puncture wound. So they think 799 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 1: it's possible as he was falling that his ice ax 800 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: bounced off of a rock and into his head, which 801 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,840 Speaker 1: that'd be pretty merciful on the way down if you 802 00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,719 Speaker 1: think about it, if that killed it instantly. Because they 803 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,560 Speaker 1: said that his his foot was almost broken off. That 804 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,920 Speaker 1: that break was so bad, and then rope trauma to 805 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 1: imagine a rope yanking on you, because they found the 806 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 1: rope still tied around his waist um. But the head 807 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,400 Speaker 1: that happened, actually, I mean, it's awful, right, It's like 808 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,759 Speaker 1: falling on your tailbone at times a million. And the 809 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,840 Speaker 1: other end of the rope was snapped off, and I 810 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,919 Speaker 1: saw a climber say, because of that snap, it must 811 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,799 Speaker 1: have been tied to something really immobile, like a rock, 812 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,399 Speaker 1: rather than Irvine. So that suggested that Mallory had sent 813 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 1: Irvine back and tried to make the summit himself, which 814 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people kind of give to his credit 815 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,719 Speaker 1: that he wasn't willing to risk Irvine's life, only his own. 816 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,960 Speaker 1: I found it very strange that I said that that 817 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,040 Speaker 1: happened to me, and you didn't even ask what that 818 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,799 Speaker 1: was about. I was on a roll. It's very strange. Well, 819 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,240 Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna I'm gonna tell you now what happened. 820 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,839 Speaker 1: No one gets to know. That would be the great 821 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,040 Speaker 1: mystery of this episode. Okay, uh So, the two big 822 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,319 Speaker 1: clues here as to whether or not he made it 823 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,360 Speaker 1: are well, one big clue was he didn't have that 824 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,760 Speaker 1: picture of his wife on him. This is the picture 825 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,360 Speaker 1: that he took with him everywhere that he vowed to 826 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,480 Speaker 1: place at the top of the mountain, and it wasn't 827 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,279 Speaker 1: on him. So a lot of people look at that 828 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,239 Speaker 1: and say, well, it's not on them, because he actually did, 829 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,319 Speaker 1: maybe by himself or maybe with Irvine, make it to 830 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,640 Speaker 1: the summit and place that picture there. And it's not 831 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,319 Speaker 1: like you would have necessarily found that picture years later. 832 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,560 Speaker 1: It very probably would have blown away or you know, 833 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 1: been destroyed by the elements over time. Uh. And you know, 834 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,400 Speaker 1: I don't know how I feel about that clue. Um. 835 00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,759 Speaker 1: I think it's considering everything was found really uh in 836 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,160 Speaker 1: good condition on him, and that that he didn't have 837 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,560 Speaker 1: it is pretty interesting to think about. I'll just say 838 00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 1: that I like that clue too. Um. There's also missing camera. 839 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,840 Speaker 1: They took a camera with them for that third attempt, 840 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,319 Speaker 1: Kodak vest pocket camera VPK, and it's like one of 841 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 1: those old cameras with the accordion that you pull out, 842 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,160 Speaker 1: but it is a really small, like pocket sized version, 843 00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 1: And had they made it to the summit, they absolutely 844 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,799 Speaker 1: would have taken a photograph from the summit, and if 845 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,439 Speaker 1: you could just find that camera, then you could conceivably, 846 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,319 Speaker 1: because it's been in deep freeze conditions for all these years, 847 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,600 Speaker 1: it's possible using modern techniques that you could develop that 848 00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,520 Speaker 1: film and solve this mystery once and for all. But 849 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,080 Speaker 1: the problem is this chuck. The camera's missing, and so 850 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,040 Speaker 1: is Irvine. Because there was an expedition not too long 851 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,600 Speaker 1: ago a few years back that set out to look 852 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:47,640 Speaker 1: for Irvine, this other guy. Because where the Chinese um 853 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,960 Speaker 1: expedition said that they found the dead English that is 854 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,960 Speaker 1: nowhere near where Mallory was found. So they figured that 855 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,239 Speaker 1: they found Irvine. But when they went when this expedition 856 00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:58,880 Speaker 1: I think a couple of years ago went back to 857 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,759 Speaker 1: find Irvine, there was nothing there. His body was not 858 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 1: exactly where it should be. Nothing there. And so this 859 00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,719 Speaker 1: rumor has kind of come up over the years that 860 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,560 Speaker 1: the Chinese actually found him and brought him back down 861 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,680 Speaker 1: the mountain without telling anybody. That's right, That is the rumor, 862 00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,960 Speaker 1: and that they got that camera and they kind of 863 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:22,279 Speaker 1: botched uh the film trying to get it developed and 864 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,640 Speaker 1: processes pictures, and that was a big embarrassment. And so 865 00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,319 Speaker 1: they will take that secret to their Graves. Yeah. And 866 00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:32,759 Speaker 1: another explanation is that the the nineteen sixty Chinese expedition 867 00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,360 Speaker 1: to the top of the North Face was the first 868 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,760 Speaker 1: to summit the North Face and that they were protecting 869 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,160 Speaker 1: national pride because they found evidence on that camera, on 870 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,120 Speaker 1: that film when they did develop it that that um 871 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,839 Speaker 1: mallory had made it to the top. Who knows. The 872 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,279 Speaker 1: thing is, we'll never know right ever. The thing that 873 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,520 Speaker 1: we will know, I think eventually, though, Chuck, hopefully, is 874 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:58,239 Speaker 1: what happened with your rope trauma. That will go to 875 00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,080 Speaker 1: the grave with me. Man. I really botched that, like 876 00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:07,320 Speaker 1: the Chinese mountain climbers botched processing that film. Okay, long staff, 877 00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,319 Speaker 1: long wind, It's more like it. You got anything else? 878 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,239 Speaker 1: I got nothing else? All right, everybody? Well, since Chuck 879 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,680 Speaker 1: refuses to tell us about his rope trauma story, I 880 00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:23,160 Speaker 1: guess we have nothing left but listener mail. Uh. This 881 00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:28,160 Speaker 1: is uh from the Silly String up. This is myth busted. Hey, guys, 882 00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,200 Speaker 1: I just wanted to point out that Josh repeated a 883 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:34,320 Speaker 1: widely spread myth about telegrams in the Silly String episode 884 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:38,200 Speaker 1: that stop was used because punctuation cost extra Uh. This 885 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,080 Speaker 1: myth has been busted. The real story is Morse code 886 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,800 Speaker 1: originally had only capital letters and no punctuation. It's generally 887 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,240 Speaker 1: not much of a problem, but during the First World War, 888 00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,239 Speaker 1: when the telegrams were widely used in the military, a 889 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:55,200 Speaker 1: misunderstood messages message could be disastrous, So the custom arose 890 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:59,320 Speaker 1: of using the words stop between sentences and military telegrams 891 00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,919 Speaker 1: so that any biguous phrases could not be misinterpreted. Caught 892 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,000 Speaker 1: on with the public. Even after punctuation was introduced, people 893 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:10,520 Speaker 1: continued fashionably using stock between sentences even though they didn't 894 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:14,240 Speaker 1: have to. I thought this was kind of interesting. Thanks 895 00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,480 Speaker 1: for the great show, and that is from Dave. It 896 00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:21,399 Speaker 1: is very interesting, Dave. I like both stories. Okay, they're 897 00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,160 Speaker 1: both great. Yeah, everyone wins. And also I'm going to 898 00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,359 Speaker 1: pose it that you have mentioned before that you've gone 899 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:31,480 Speaker 1: repelling as a boy scout and that it happened somewhere 900 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:37,200 Speaker 1: on Stone Mountain. Not true. The mystery continues. Whatever. If 901 00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:38,879 Speaker 1: you want to get in touch with us like Dave 902 00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:40,960 Speaker 1: did and maybe take a crack at what happened with 903 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,239 Speaker 1: Chuck and the rope and the trauma, you can send 904 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:50,040 Speaker 1: us an email to Stuff Podcast at iHeart radio dot com. 905 00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,400 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio. 906 00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,439 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart 907 00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,440 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 908 00:51:58,440 --> 00:51:59,160 Speaker 1: favorite shows.