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Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Sometimes you sit back as

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Speaker 1: a crime scene investigator and you try to observe things

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Speaker 1: from the perspective of a clinician, somebody that's kind of cold,

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Speaker 1: that goes in and just wants the facts. But there

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Speaker 1: are those cases that I don't know, tease your humanity

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Speaker 1: out of you at the scene, those things that you

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Speaker 1: look at them and you think, how in the world

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Speaker 1: could this possibly have happened. Today, we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about a mother and a wife by the name of

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Speaker 1: on A wash We're going to talk about her disappearance,

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Speaker 1: her possible homicide, and her dismemberment. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan

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Speaker 1: and this is Bodybacks. Joining me today is my friend

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Speaker 1: Jackie Howard, executive producer of Crime Stories. When Nancy Grace, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: I know that you, like much of the country, has

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Speaker 1: been following this case or sometime. I think that we're

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Speaker 1: left again with a case where we've gotten more questions

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Speaker 1: and answers. What do you think about that? I think

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Speaker 1: you are absolutely right. The disappearance of on A Walsh

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Speaker 1: has so many more questions than answers, just like Jennifer

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Speaker 1: dulos Up North. This woman disappeared, I mean literally disappeared.

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Speaker 1: One day, she was here, next day, cannot find her.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of similarities between these two case for that.

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Speaker 1: But on a Walsh left her home. She was seen

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Speaker 1: leaving her house with her bags in hand. She worked

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Speaker 1: at a different location. She was a real estate professional.

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Speaker 1: She had taken on a new job in the Boston area,

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Speaker 1: and she actually traveled from her home in Massachusetts weekly

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Speaker 1: to go for this position. So she was last seen

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Speaker 1: leaving her home with bags in hand, according to her husband.

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Speaker 1: And what happened to her after that is the question.

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Speaker 1: She has not been seen. She did not make the flight,

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Speaker 1: she did not make her new job, so they missed

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Speaker 1: her in the office. That's when the questions began. That's

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Speaker 1: where our investigation needs to begin. How do we start

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Speaker 1: that timeline, Joe, I don't know that it's necessarily starting

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Speaker 1: the timeline as much as it is location. Now I

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Speaker 1: know that those two things are kind of married together.

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Speaker 1: You've got a husband that's actually stating, and he was

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Speaker 1: very specific. He said she left the house in either

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Speaker 1: an uber or left. Let's back up to that, because

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Speaker 1: now you've got again here we go again. Jackie, we've

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Speaker 1: got a digital footprint, because if you were alleging that

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Speaker 1: she left in an uber or a left and so

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Speaker 1: not only do you have a digital footprint, you're what

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Speaker 1: your alleging means that you would have a physical witness

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Speaker 1: to her getting into the vehicle with you to be

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Speaker 1: transported somewhere. So if that's what is being put forth,

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Speaker 1: then that would be solid information to go on. But

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Speaker 1: there's no indication that she was seen by anybody getting

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Speaker 1: into the vehicle to go somewhere. So where do we begin, Well,

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Speaker 1: we begin the home. We begin where an individual lives,

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Speaker 1: where they're domiciled. You know, you have to think that

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Speaker 1: that's the last place she was seen. So what could

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Speaker 1: have occurred within that home that would have essentially led

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Speaker 1: to her total and complete disappearance, Like you mentioned just

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Speaker 1: a second ago, it seemingly just vanishes off the face

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Speaker 1: of the planet. Well, you peg that one pretty well, Joe,

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Speaker 1: because now we know that Anna Walsh's husband, Brian has

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Speaker 1: been charged in her disappearance. The beginning of that suspicion

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Speaker 1: from police began in the basement of the home, it did,

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Speaker 1: and you begin to look for things like physical evidence

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Speaker 1: that can begin to turn up. One of the things

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Speaker 1: with death investigation, and I think that for many reasons,

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Speaker 1: it goes back to this. Certainly, people in literature use

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Speaker 1: this a lot as a device. You look for blood,

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Speaker 1: don't you. Blood is always associated with either the loss

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Speaker 1: of life or at least the diminishment of life to

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Speaker 1: some degree, particularly if you wind up would say, for instance,

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Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of blood that you fund at the scene.

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Speaker 1: And there's a term that's used. We've talked about it

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Speaker 1: before on bodybacks, but it bears repeating, and that is

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Speaker 1: the idea of the amount of blood that you have

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Speaker 1: at a scene gives the appearance of an event being

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Speaker 1: incompatible with life. However, at least to this point, I

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Speaker 1: don't know that there is that much blood evidence. Although

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Speaker 1: there was blood evidence found at the home that would

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Speaker 1: give an indication that something very troublesome happened there in

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Speaker 1: a basement. I would think that a bloody knife found

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Speaker 1: in the basement would indeed give an indication that something

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Speaker 1: bad happened. From a forensic standpoint, we hear about this

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Speaker 1: a lot in cases. There's a couple of cases out

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Speaker 1: there right now where I think that many times the

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Speaker 1: general public begins to think about, well, you have blood,

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Speaker 1: so therefore you can get an arrest warrant and arrest somebody.

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Speaker 1: That's not the way it works, not in forensics at least,

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Speaker 1: if you find something that you believe is in fact blood,

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Speaker 1: you have to verify that, don't you. You have to

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Speaker 1: do what is referred to as presumptive testing on an

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Speaker 1: item that might have blood on the surface, say for instance,

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Speaker 1: with a knife, or if you have a piece of

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Speaker 1: cloth or even a droplet on the floor. You cannot

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Speaker 1: just simply assume that that is first off, that it

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Speaker 1: is blood. So that's our first step. We have to

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Speaker 1: go in and take a look at that sample and

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Speaker 1: see if it is in fact blood, and then from

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Speaker 1: that point you can move on to the next level,

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Speaker 1: which is where we're going to take a look at

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Speaker 1: it from the perspective of, well, we verified that it

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Speaker 1: is blood, but is it human blood, because you can

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Speaker 1: have animal blood as well. If you have that's in

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Speaker 1: the home. There's a couple of cases out there where

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Speaker 1: people were deer hunters, they track blood into the house

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Speaker 1: and it turned out not to be human it was

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Speaker 1: actually dear blood. So you have to be able to

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Speaker 1: whittle that down. Well, if you establish that it is

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Speaker 1: in fact human blood, you go to the next level

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Speaker 1: of testing, which of course begins to lead into well

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Speaker 1: typing the blood, what blood grouping does it fall into?

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Speaker 1: And if you have a missing person, if you try

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Speaker 1: to say, okay, well what blood group would on a

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Speaker 1: fall into and hopefully you can establish that, and then

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Speaker 1: of course then you're going to have a DNA fingerprint

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Speaker 1: as well. Relative to that, What about the age of

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Speaker 1: the blood, Joe, I know you've probably told me this before.

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Speaker 1: Can they tell did this happen last week, has happened

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Speaker 1: five years ago? What can they tell? Blood is a

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Speaker 1: curious substance because it's multilayered. It contains several elements to

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Speaker 1: it that actually make it blood. And much of this

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Speaker 1: relative to attempting to determine how old it is, it's

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Speaker 1: going to be heavily depended upon not so much time

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Speaker 1: as it is exposure. What this sample has been exposed

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Speaker 1: to over a period of time. You can go back

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Speaker 1: and take a look at samples from long long ago.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, famously, we're able to take

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Speaker 1: a sample of President Lincoln's blood and actually do a

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Speaker 1: DNA profile on it. So, yeah, you can take historic

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Speaker 1: samples even and essentially profile them. So in a case

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Speaker 1: that is this fresh, Remember Anna has only been missing

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Speaker 1: since January the first, so it's not like we've got

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Speaker 1: someone that has been missing for six months, a year,

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Speaker 1: or two years. This sample would still be viable at

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Speaker 1: this point in tom and I think that that's what

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Speaker 1: they're dealing with. But when the officers came into the

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Speaker 1: basement and they see a substance that they think is blood,

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Speaker 1: and given the amount of time that Anna has been missing,

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Speaker 1: it would have more than likely been dried. So when

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Speaker 1: they see that based on the color, can they look

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Speaker 1: at that and go, oh, that happened yesterday, Oh that

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Speaker 1: happened two weeks ago, Oh that happened six years ago.

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Speaker 1: How does what they see? What clues does that give

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Speaker 1: an officer. There's a certain level of dehydration that occurs

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Speaker 1: with blood, depended upon how long it's been down And

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Speaker 1: again it's completely depended upon environment mental factors. And you

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Speaker 1: can kind of eyeball it and get an idea that

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Speaker 1: if you've got a sample that has gotten to the

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Speaker 1: point where it has gone from brilliant red to brown,

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Speaker 1: and then there's another phase where it will essentially go

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Speaker 1: to this kind of brown cracked appearance where it and

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Speaker 1: this is why this is so difficult when you're eyeballing

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Speaker 1: what you think is a blood sample, because it can

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Speaker 1: actually look like chocolate, believe it or not, and it

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Speaker 1: goes from this kind of brown cracked appearance to flaking.

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Speaker 1: But here's the problem. There is no and I repeat,

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Speaker 1: there is no definitive time marker that you can place

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Speaker 1: on that where it is an absolute okay, you're going

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Speaker 1: to have a lot of wiggle room. And one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons is is that you cannot account for all

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Speaker 1: of the environmental influences that have taken place in surrounding

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Speaker 1: that environment. We're talking about Massachusetts. Yeah, it would be

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Speaker 1: called outside. But conversely, are you running the furnace in

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Speaker 1: the house. You've got the sink cranked up so that

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Speaker 1: it's so hot in there that it's going to cause

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Speaker 1: changes in any kind of biological element that you have

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Speaker 1: have around. If you've got a garbage that's got I

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Speaker 1: don't know, a piece of chicken in it, for instance,

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Speaker 1: and you've got the heat jacked up in the house,

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Speaker 1: it's going to promote the decomposition of that piece of chicken,

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Speaker 1: whereas if it was cooler, it would preserve it longer.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's going to be completely and totally environmentally dependent.

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Speaker 1: You've got a missing wife. As an investigator, where do

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Speaker 1: your eyes go first? I'm not talking about at the scene.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about information. I'm talking about where are you

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Speaker 1: going to go? What's the well spring of data here

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Speaker 1: to find out what exactly happening in this case? Jackie,

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Speaker 1: I think that those answers are going to rest with

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Speaker 1: a husband. They are, and police again have taken the

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Speaker 1: husband into custody. And it's strange to me. If you

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Speaker 1: look at what friends, neighbor's family say about this man.

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Speaker 1: They all received a strange vibe about him. He didn't

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Speaker 1: want his picture taken, he wasn't friendly the town there

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Speaker 1: where the Walshes lived. People in the shops there, shop

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Speaker 1: owners like pizza parlor and another restaurant there say when

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Speaker 1: they came in that Anna was extremely quiet, she didn't

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Speaker 1: speak a lot, and that he as well, just kind

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Speaker 1: of gave off a creepy vibe, is how they describe it.

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Speaker 1: So she goes missing. The police find blood in the

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Speaker 1: home that they now believe shows that he murdered and dismembered. Anna,

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Speaker 1: where do you go from here? Joe, her body is missing.

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Speaker 1: I mean you can get rid of a body a

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Speaker 1: thousand ways. How do you track what he did next?

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Speaker 1: When you go to the scene and you begin to

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Speaker 1: dig around as the scene and you suddenly realize that

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Speaker 1: you don't have what's referred to as a corpus delecti,

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Speaker 1: that is the body of the evidence, you're going to

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Speaker 1: have to expand your search from there. If the police

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Speaker 1: were to suspect that the husband was involved in any level,

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Speaker 1: they have to begin to track his movements. You know,

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Speaker 1: you had mentioned, and rightly so. Just a moment ago,

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Speaker 1: they found this knife in the basement. And one little

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Speaker 1: piece to this that we didn't mention is that this

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Speaker 1: knife was bent. You get a bent knife and it's

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Speaker 1: gotten blood on it. That means that probably you could

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Speaker 1: make an intellectual leap scientifically and say this knife was

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Speaker 1: probably involved in some kind of vigorous behavior, that the

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Speaker 1: knife was not necessarily meant for this purpose. And when

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Speaker 1: you begin to think about taking a part of body,

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Speaker 1: which is what the police are at least thinking has happened,

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Speaker 1: that goes to this idea of you're in a fever,

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Speaker 1: you're using the tools that you have at hand, and

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Speaker 1: the tool is not meant for the job, So therefore

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Speaker 1: it's going to bend and it's going to potentially break.

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Speaker 1: In this case, it didn't. But what other elements are

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Speaker 1: you looking for? Well, there's a rug that they've apparently

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Speaker 1: found that had blood on it. And here's one more thing,

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Speaker 1: and this is key. There's evidence that the husband had

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Speaker 1: gone to a store and it's purchased about Get this,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how much you spent on cleaning supplies, Jackie.

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Speaker 1: He spent four hundred dollars allegedly on cleaning supplies. You

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Speaker 1: know how much cleaning supplies do you need in order

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Speaker 1: to accomplish a task? That gives you an indication that maybe,

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Speaker 1: in this fevered state, he's just a ting to cover

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Speaker 1: all of his bases. He's going to use everything that

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Speaker 1: he possibly can in order to clean up this mess,

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Speaker 1: and it would have been a big, big mess. Well.

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Speaker 1: As police continued their investigation into things that Brian Walsh

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Speaker 1: had bought, we also find that he bought a hack saw.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've talked about the use of hack saws

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Speaker 1: in the past on bodybags. When you begin to look

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Speaker 1: at this in total, you think, well, what's the purpose,

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Speaker 1: Why would you choose this particular instrument, Why would you

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Speaker 1: bring it to bear as a post to say, for instance,

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Speaker 1: a carpenter saw or limb saw. With hack saws, they

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Speaker 1: have different blades that can be applied to them. Now

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Speaker 1: we don't necessarily know at this point in time the

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Speaker 1: specifics about the type of blade that was on this

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Speaker 1: particular hack saw, but it is essentially something that you

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Speaker 1: can work with in a very tight, fine space. It's

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Speaker 1: not going to leave as big I can mess. Say,

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Speaker 1: for instance, if you really go over the top and

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Speaker 1: you're using some kind of electrical saw, a sawsaw or

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Speaker 1: maybe a circular saw and this sort of thing so

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Speaker 1: you can kind of keep it contained. You have to think, well,

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Speaker 1: was he thinking about this? Was he thinking about using

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Speaker 1: a hack saw where you can kind of diminish the

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Speaker 1: amount of evidence that you're going to leave behind or not.

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of a fascinating point here. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to ask you something that's kind of morbid. But I

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Speaker 1: think then again, what we talk about is kind of morbid.

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Speaker 1: If you were going to dismember a body, what is

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Speaker 1: the end result going to be if you do it

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Speaker 1: when the body has only been deceased for a couple hours,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to if the body has been deceased for days. Well,

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Speaker 1: ask an excellent question. Here's what my thought is on this.

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Speaker 1: First off, you've got two sides to think about here.

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Speaker 1: If it is immediately afterwards, the blood that remains in

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Speaker 1: the body is not going to be See how can

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Speaker 1: I term this? Not as viscous or thick as it

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Speaker 1: would be after the body has been decomposing for a while,

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Speaker 1: and so therefore it's going to be in more of

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Speaker 1: a liquid state, closer to life than it is to

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Speaker 1: a decomposition, an advanced decompositional state. So that's going to

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Speaker 1: create a problem. You'll have more blood to clean up,

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Speaker 1: if you will. All right now, we're not even talking

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Speaker 1: about any kind of injuries that this individual would have

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Speaker 1: sustained prior to death, because that if you're talking about

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Speaker 1: gunshot wounds or stab wounds and that sort of thing,

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Speaker 1: that's a completely different set of problems that you have there.

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Speaker 1: We're just merely talking about the dismemberment of human remains.

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Speaker 1: So in the early state like this, you can still

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Speaker 1: have quite a bit of blood seeping out, and so

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Speaker 1: that is going to pose problem for anybody that is

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Speaker 1: doing a dismemberment like this. And so you'll have blood everywhere,

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Speaker 1: You'll have contact blood obviously on the strument that you're using.

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Speaker 1: The individual cannot escape this event without having blood all

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Speaker 1: over them. Even if they're wearing gloves, you're still going

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Speaker 1: to get blood on you. Because this is the thing

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Speaker 1: about it, is that when perpetrator shows up to a

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Speaker 1: scene with let's say, for instance, a hack saw, all right,

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Speaker 1: and a knife that you might use in your kitchen,

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Speaker 1: they got the tools to use, and my suspicion is

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Speaker 1: is that they don't have the anatomical knowledge in order

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Speaker 1: to facilitate this. We have specific instruments that we use

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Speaker 1: for these purposes. That's certainly something that you have to

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Speaker 1: factor in. You're going to have quite a big mess

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Speaker 1: early on. Now, the further you move down range and say,

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Speaker 1: you ask the question, Jackie, if you have a body

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Speaker 1: that is in moderate to advanced state of decomposition, you're

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Speaker 1: going to have to deal with smell. You're going to

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Speaker 1: have to deal with the changes in the tissue itself.

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Speaker 1: But I guess I hate to use the term upside.

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Speaker 1: But if there is an upside with dismemberment of decomposing remain,

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Speaker 1: the joints become much more malleable because of the breakdown

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Speaker 1: of the tissues, all the connective tissues and everything that

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Speaker 1: are in there. So if you go into, say, for instance,

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Speaker 1: a shoulder joint, or to the elbow or to the wrist,

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Speaker 1: those are going to be much easier to access and

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Speaker 1: kind of take apart if you will. It's just that

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Speaker 1: you're going to have to deal with all of the

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Speaker 1: problems that come along in the messiness of the decomposing body.

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Speaker 1: For investigators, it's certainly one thing when you have an

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Speaker 1: intact human remain. I'm not going to say it's easy,

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Speaker 1: because that's kind of a diminishment of what all is

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Speaker 1: involved in a death investigation. How Ever, I think that

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Speaker 1: we can all agree on the fact that if you're

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Speaker 1: talking about a case that involves possible dismemberment, what's happened,

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Speaker 1: What's happened to all of those various dismembered remains. Are

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Speaker 1: they in one location or they spread out over a

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Speaker 1: vast area, And that's certainly something that the police are

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Speaker 1: faced with right now. Jackie, this case reminds me so

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Speaker 1: much of the Jennifer Dulos case. Mom ghost, missing husband

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Speaker 1: is arrested. He is caught on videotape and with evidence,

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Speaker 1: putting evidence into dumpsters and trash cans around the city

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Speaker 1: and away from the home. So my question is, and

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Speaker 1: again in the Dulos case, the idea of dismemberment was

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Speaker 1: also brought into play. How do you start this kind

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Speaker 1: of an investigation where you believe the body has been

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Speaker 1: dismembered and taken to separate location. The dumpster at Brian

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Speaker 1: Walsh's mother's apartment was searched, so your area of search

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Speaker 1: has become massive, And at what point do you stop

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Speaker 1: and say, Okay, sorry, we've gone out fifteen miles. We're

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Speaker 1: not going out any farther. Very difficult. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: like stopping a battleship. You can't snap your fingers and

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Speaker 1: have it stop. Right now. I'm thinking about what kind

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Speaker 1: of logistics are involved in is for the police, and

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Speaker 1: I've been involved in cases where I've had to go

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Speaker 1: to landfills and they are an absolute nightmare. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it is a nightmare. You remember when where kids we

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Speaker 1: used to play that game called red Light green light.

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Speaker 1: Everybody would be moving in the yard. You'd be all

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Speaker 1: together and somebody say green light, red light, and you'd

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Speaker 1: have to stop. We're trying to stop the process of Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll repeat it. The process of processing garbage is monumental.

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Speaker 1: Where are the receptacles? And then on what kind of

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Speaker 1: schedule are the trucks on they're going to pick this

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Speaker 1: stuff up? And then once the trucks, if they're serviced

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Speaker 1: by specific service, what landfill are they going to go to?

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Speaker 1: Because various different locations and depended upon the region of

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Speaker 1: the country you're in, they might be serviced by private companies,

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Speaker 1: might not necessarily the city of the county that's doing this,

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Speaker 1: and so they have different areas they're going to go to.

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Speaker 1: And again that adds another layer to this. So from

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Speaker 1: that moment time we do have a starting place. We

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Speaker 1: have obviously the washes trash. And then you were referring

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Speaker 1: to the husband's mother's location. Where would her trash go?

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Speaker 1: How would you track that down? Oh, and by the way,

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Speaker 1: between his house, the washer's home, and his mother's home,

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Speaker 1: where else is there that he could have gone to?

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Speaker 1: Or did he take some kind of detour in going

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Speaker 1: there is there some kind of other location where items

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Speaker 1: could be deposited along the way, and all of that

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Speaker 1: has to be factored in. And listen, you've got a

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Speaker 1: very tight window to do this in because if this

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Speaker 1: stuff makes it out to a landfill, Jackie, they put

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Speaker 1: it out into grids, and those grids are subsequently covered up.

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Speaker 1: You've got this stratification that's going on with this very

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Speaker 1: very fragile biological evidence that begins to break down very quickly.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to throw one more thing out that i

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Speaker 1: want our listeners to understand. When you are in a landfill,

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Speaker 1: this is a highly aerobic environment, which means that you've

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Speaker 1: got a lot of microscopic activity going on, and it's

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Speaker 1: made that way so that things break down, and that's

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Speaker 1: why they periodically turn the trash out there. They're always

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Speaker 1: running over it with these big trucks and equipment and stuff.

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Speaker 1: So time is of the essence. If you don't capture

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Speaker 1: it at that moment time, your entire case could be

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Speaker 1: lost and all of the physical evidence can be lost

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Speaker 1: as well. You brought up a really good point talking

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Speaker 1: about this time factor in finding things in the trash

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Speaker 1: and how important it is we can see this in

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Speaker 1: the Idaho murders case with Ryan Coberger. He was caught

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Speaker 1: putting trash into his neighbor's ben at four o'clock in

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Speaker 1: the morning, wearing gloves. It just so happened that the

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Speaker 1: police were staking him out and caught him saw him

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Speaker 1: doing that, so that they were able to retrieve that

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Speaker 1: in case there was any evidence in there. The idea

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Speaker 1: that that's a possibility makes a forensic experts job a

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Speaker 1: thousand times more difficult. How do you say, okay, check

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Speaker 1: this neighbor, but don't check that neighbor, or do you

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Speaker 1: just check them all? Oh? Well, I think that a

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Speaker 1: lot of this goes back to the police having to

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Speaker 1: look at who their primary suspect is and what kind

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Speaker 1: of behaviors is this individual normally engaged in. Here's kind

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Speaker 1: of a salient point I believe people have, as you

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Speaker 1: well reported, Jackie, earlier, you talked about how people viewed

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00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: him as kind of the standoffice figure. The question would

386
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Speaker 1: be for me is who did he talk to? Not

387
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Speaker 1: where didn't he go, but where did he go on

388
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Speaker 1: a regular basis? And that's within a comfort zone for

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Speaker 1: this individual. Most people that perpetrate a crime and they're

390
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Speaker 1: not arch criminal out there, which most of those types

391
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Speaker 1: of people don't truly exist. They do in comic books.

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Speaker 1: But when you find yourself in the midst of having

393
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Speaker 1: been involved, allegedly involved in something so horrific, you need

394
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 1: those things that are gonna you're gonna feel comfortable with,

395
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Speaker 1: and you're gonna feel most comfortable going to locations that

396
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 1: you frequent, things that you pass by every day that

397
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Speaker 1: you would see, Hey, look there's a dumpster behind that

398
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Speaker 1: convenience store, or hey look there's a trash can. This

399
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: person never takes in their trash can, just to leave

400
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,239
Speaker 1: it out there all week long. It's always sits by

401
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Speaker 1: the road, and well, arbitrarily throw this and my gosh,

402
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: all we have to do is think back, Jackie. This

403
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: is one of our earliest cases that we covered on

404
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 1: body backs, and that was infamous Ingrid and Lend case

405
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: out of Seattle, where she'd met this guy on a

406
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 1: dating app and he brought her home that evening and

407
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: wound up killing her and actually dismembering her body in

408
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: a bathtub in that house. And he went to places

409
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: that were convenient for him along his route, and he

410
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: actually deposited parts of her body all over the city

411
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Speaker 1: in recyclable trash cans. It just so happened. I think

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Speaker 1: that they would have had a hard time with this case,

413
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: even more difficult than they wound up having if this

414
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 1: random citizen had not walked out to their trash can

415
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: to retrieve it and notice it was heavy, looked down

416
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: in there and can you imagine this looks down in

417
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: there and discovers I think it was a footsticking out.

418
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: So you just never know about what a perpetrator is

419
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 1: going to do. They're going to do I think those

420
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: things that make them feel most comfortable, because this is

421
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: already comp located enough when you begin to think about

422
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 1: what kind of intellectual energy has to go into this

423
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: in order to facilitate this pull it off, and you've

424
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: always got it in the back of your mind. I

425
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: would imagine, as somebody is always watching, that they're going

426
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: to get onto you, that you're going to leave a

427
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: trace behind, and of course they always do. But going

428
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: back to my question, I think I'm kind of hung

429
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Speaker 1: up on the fact that while you say most people

430
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: go where they're comfortable, what they know when you've got

431
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: that one person Israel Keys, for example, travel the country,

432
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: setting up kill kits in strange locations. So you've always

433
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: got that one person that goes, I'm smarter than everybody else,

434
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: And then you have to worry is he really smarter

435
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 1: than anybody else? And does that mean he's going to

436
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: drive two hours away to dispose of a body. And

437
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: this ties back into my original question, how far out?

438
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: At what point in an investigation five miles, ten miles,

439
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: fifteen miles from home do you say, Okay, we've gone

440
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: out far enough. I'll plainly say that I don't know.

441
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: I don't know how you take the measure of that

442
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: as an investigator. As much as I hate to say

443
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,719
Speaker 1: this as a scientist, some of it just relies on intuition.

444
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: I hate that term. I hated when it comes. I

445
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: hate things like intuition and gut feeling because I think

446
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: that they'll fail you most of the time. But in

447
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: this particular case, the police will exhaust to every possibility

448
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: that they can, and at some point in time you

449
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 1: just have to call it quits. But you know, you

450
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: want to talk about leaving a trail behind. When the

451
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: police actually got a hold of one of the I

452
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: think it was the iPad that was found in the

453
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: home per search warrant. This is what was left behind

454
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: on the iPad. Just listen. This is kind of these

455
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: little bulleted points that I have here. Ten ways to

456
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 1: dismember a body? Does baking soda make a body smell good?

457
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: How long is someone missing before you can inherit? Can

458
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: you throw away body parts? Can you be charged with

459
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: a murder without a body dismemberment? And the best ways

460
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: to dispose of a body? A little light Saturday afternoon reading. Huh?

461
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: You know who searches these things out? And when you

462
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: begin to couple that with her disappearance in well, and

463
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: don't forget the fact, Joe, don't forget the fact that

464
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: she had said before that her husband had threatened to

465
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: kill her. Yeah, and you know her mother, who I

466
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: think is from Eastern Europe maybe Serbia, was not even

467
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: aware of this, and that came out later that he

468
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: had threatened her, I think, many many years ago, and

469
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: the mother was astounded to find this out. And who knows,

470
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: you know, what might be the motivation behind all of this.

471
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: And again, he's innocent until proven guilty. He's merely been

472
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: charged at this point in time. But you have to

473
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: look at the totality of the circumstances and who would

474
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: have had the opportunity in order to perpetrate such a

475
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: heinous crime. I look at this and I begin to think,

476
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: deep down in my heart of hearts, I've been married

477
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: for a long time, I've got kids. Many of us

478
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: can identify with this. At what point in time do

479
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: you get in a relationship where you say, Okay, I'm

480
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: going to kill the person that I've been married to

481
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: and oh, by the way, not only married to, but

482
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: created a life with and have attempted to build a

483
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: life with. At what point do you get to And

484
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: I think that that's currently what the police are trying

485
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: to explore. What would be the overall motivating factor for

486
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: somebody to have done this, To do this with a

487
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: person that you've built a life with and completely destroy it.

488
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: Brian Walsh has pleaded not guilty to charges of murder

489
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: and disinterring a body. He is being held without fail.

490
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph got Morgan and this is body backs