1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newts World. This President's Day marks 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: the fiftieth anniversary of President Richard Nixon's historic trip to 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: the People's Republic of China. The week long visit from 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: February twenty first to twenty eighth, nineteen seventy two was 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: the first time a US president had visited the People's 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: Republic of China. When Nixon arrived in Beijing, it ended 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: twenty five years of no communication or diplomatic ties between 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: the two countries and was a step in normalizing relations. 9 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: Nixon described his visit as the week that changed the world. 10 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: My guest is someone who served as personal aid, special assistant, 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: then deputy assistant to President Nixon. He was responsible for 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: the planning and execution of the President's schedule and appearances, 13 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: plus oversight of the White House Advanced and television offices. 14 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: He was acting chief of protocoll for President Nixon's nineteen 15 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: seventy two historic trip to China. And I'm really pleased 16 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: to welcome my guest, Dwight Chapin, author of the new 17 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: book The President's Man, The Memoirs of Richard Nixon's Trusted Aid. 18 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: Do I thank you for joining me. I'm really delighted 19 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: to have you on to discuss this historic anniversary, and 20 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: frankly to discuss Nixon, who I think was a remarkable 21 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: figure and who dominated American politics as much as any 22 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: one person for almost thirty years. And while a lot 23 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: of people's memory is only Watergate, there was immensely more 24 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: to Nixon than that, including his winning one of the 25 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: largest majorities in American history in his reelection campaign. And 26 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: as I understand it, you knew Richard Nixon longer and 27 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: more intimately than almost any other person outside of his 28 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: immediate family. Now, first of all, it's great to be 29 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: on with you, and it is a special anniversary, the 30 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: fiftieth anniversary of his trip to China. I started with 31 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: him when I was a senior at USC in Southern 32 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: Caw and he was running for governor of California. He 33 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: had lost to Jack Kennedy in nineteen sixty and then 34 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two decided he was going to run 35 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: to be governor of California. I wanted to keep his 36 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: political life moving, and he made that fateful decision, and 37 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: he lost, as you very well know, which may be 38 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: one of the most significant things about his whole background. 39 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: But I got involved as a very young man, and 40 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: I ran the field offices in Ventura County, Santa Barbara County, 41 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: in the San Fernando Valley section of Los Angeles, and 42 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: my job was to put together campaign offices. At that time, 43 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: they worked precinct sheets and I filled those offices with volunteers, 44 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: and as a very young man, it gave me exposure 45 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: to him, and from that grew my involvement over the 46 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: later years. I have to ask you with maybe a 47 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: brief detour, because I noticed that you also worked for 48 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: the Democratic mayor of Los Angeles, Sam Jordi, who was 49 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: a remarkable character in his own right. Could you chat 50 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: briefly about your experience with Jordy and why you want 51 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: to work for him. Well, yes, he was a Democrat, 52 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: but the office of mayor of Los Angeles was nonpartisan, 53 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: and Sam was a character. He caught my imagination. At 54 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: this point. I'm in high school, so I'm going door 55 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: to door in the precincts out in the San Fernando Valley, 56 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: knocking on the door, handing out literature and trying to 57 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: get people to put it on a bumper sticker. It 58 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: was grassroots, you know, at base level, so to speak. 59 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm curious what was it that made Yordy so remarkable. 60 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: What made him remarkable to me was his straightforwardness. I 61 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: mean he was like a no Bs type guy. I mean, 62 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: this is a guy that called it as he saw it. 63 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: He was controversial, it was very early on in the 64 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: use of media. But he was great on television and 65 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: he just put himself out there kind of in a 66 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: very uninhibited way. And that intrigued me, and part just 67 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: out of personal curiosity, because many years ago I read 68 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: The Ninth Wave by Jean Burdick, which is a novel 69 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: that Burdick says was really based on Yordi and exploring 70 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: the impact of television and the way in which things 71 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: occur in a rhythmic manner. I mean, he draws the 72 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,119 Speaker 1: ninth Wave from the concept of surfing, that the ninth 73 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: wave is bigger than the first eight. And I was 74 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: always intrigued with Ordi just because of the imagery that Burdick, 75 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: who had been a political science professor at Berkeley, that 76 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: he put into this novel. So that's what I had 77 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: to ask you about him. Great, Well, I'll have to 78 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: read it by comparison. I mean, Jordie's this kind of colorful, 79 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: charismatic figure. And in a way, Nixon is a very discipline, hardworking, 80 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: much different personality than you, Aordy. What was it like 81 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: the first time you met Nixon? Well, the first time 82 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: I met Nixon. He came to our campaign headquarters on 83 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: Wilishire Boulevard and they had put out and noticed that 84 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: he was going to be coming. He had at that 85 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: point this mystique. I mean, he had been a congressman, senator, 86 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: vice president under Eisenhower. Then of course the well covered 87 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: election against Jack Kennedy, so when he came in to 88 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: run for governor, it was like he was really a 89 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: political celebrity. So meeting the former vice president was always 90 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: a thrill, and he had that persona that he was 91 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: something different, There was something about him, And so when 92 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: he came to the campaign headquarters, we were all summoned 93 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: to be there, and he walked around and he spent 94 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: time with each and every one of us, asking a 95 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: little about our background and thanking us for working for him. 96 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: But it was a very short meeting. And of course, 97 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: as good political figures do, it doesn't take much to 98 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: energize the troops. Once they've meant the candidate. So you 99 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: do mention in your book there working on Nixon's sixty 100 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: two campaign for governor changed your life. How was that? Well, 101 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: I always had to have a summer job, and I 102 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: didn't have one. So in nineteen sixty two, my dad 103 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: arranged for me to go into the campaign headquarters on 104 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: Wilshire Boulevard, and when I did, I met a young 105 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: lawyer by named a Herb Combach who interviewed me for 106 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: about half hour, and he said, I'll be right back, 107 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: and he left the office, came back and said, come 108 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: with me, and we went down the hall and I 109 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: met a young thirty five year old man who was 110 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: campaign manager for Nixon, and his name was Bob Haldeman, 111 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: who later became Holdeman's chief of staff. And I say 112 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: in my book that not many people know when something 113 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: like this happens, that that was the day that changed 114 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: my life forever and for the better, because both Bob 115 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: and then Herb Coombach became incredible mentors of mine and 116 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: involved in my life for many years. So you ended 117 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: up working your heart out in the campaign and then 118 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: Nixon lost. I mean, how did you react election night 119 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: to realizing that Pat Brown had won. I didn't react 120 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: very well. I was very naive. I may be one 121 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: of the only people on the campaign staff that thought 122 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: he was going to win. I stayed up all night. 123 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: I was at the Beverly Hilton Hotel. He was upstairs 124 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: in the suite with his key staff members. And the 125 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: next morning I was in the ballroom waiting in There 126 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: was a rumor he might come down, and all of 127 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: a sudden, the elevators pop open and incomes Richard Nixon 128 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: up onto the stage. And that's when he gave his 129 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: famous talk that gentlemen, this is my last press conference. 130 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 1: You're not going to have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore. 131 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: And then shortly thereafter, Howard K. Smith did his famous 132 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: television show on ABC that called the Political Obituary of 133 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,599 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon. He even went so far that he had 134 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: Alger Hiss on that show too. We should say for 135 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: the listeners that Alger Hiss was a very very senior 136 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: person in the State Department who it was alleged was 137 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: a Communist. He denied it. Ultimately ended up with Richard 138 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: Nixon at the time on the Right Committee, proving I 139 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: think beyond any reasonable doubt that Hiss had lied and 140 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: that in fact Hiss was a Communist. The national establishment 141 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: had sided with Hiss, and it was almost a little 142 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,559 Speaker 1: bit like the incorrigible's argument today. I mean, Hiss came 143 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: from the establishment. He was a elegant sort of Ivy 144 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: League personality with the right family background, and how could 145 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: someone like that be accused of being a communist? Station 146 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: The only problem for the people who defended his So 147 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: we now know as a fact that at Yalta, Hiss 148 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: actually met with Stalin about three in the morning to 149 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: get a personal medal for all of the help he 150 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: had been to the Soviet Union during World War Two, 151 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: and he clearly was a Communist agent. But it was 152 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: one of the dividing lines in American politics had made 153 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: Nixon so deeply hated. The left and the Ivy League 154 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: types just loathed Nixon because he had taken one of 155 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: their good friends and told the truth about it. It 156 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: was an amazing moment, amazing moment, and I tried to 157 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: detail some of that in my book, and you could 158 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: not be more accurate. The elite and the left side 159 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: of the media tried to hammer Nixon with this, not try, 160 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: they did and Nixon paid a price for it all 161 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: the way through his political career. But one time John 162 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: Connolly told me he was tying to a group of 163 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: us at the White House, and he said, you know, 164 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: one of the most important things you do in politics 165 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: has pick your straw enemies. And I would say that 166 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: Alger Hiss was not a straw enemy. He was a 167 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: real enemy, and Nixon absolutely made mince meat of him, 168 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: and those that were inclined to favor has never forgot it. 169 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,079 Speaker 1: It never got over it. So Nixon now has given 170 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: his famous speech. I mean, I remember it vividly at 171 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: the time because I'd been a volunteer in Georgia for 172 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: the Nixon Lodge campaign, and I found the election nineteen 173 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: sixties on the longest nights of my life as we 174 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,079 Speaker 1: gradually lost Illinois and Texas. And what I'm personally convinced 175 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: that this goes back to the whole current fight. There's 176 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: no doubt in my mind that the Democrats stole both 177 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: Illinois and Texas in nineteen sixty. But Nixon, because we 178 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: were in the middle of the Cold War, because he 179 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: understood the dangers of the Civil Union, refused to contest it. 180 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: And so Nixon is now announced he's out of politics. 181 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: He goes to New York becomes part of a very 182 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: very important law firm. At the same time, he's still 183 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: active politically even though he's not a candidate. And as 184 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: I remember, you go to the Republican National Convention in 185 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four working with Nixon. What was that like? 186 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: I mean so that the sixty four convention was a 187 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: wild convention, with Barry Goldwater being nominated, the moderate Republicans 188 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: up in arms, the news media in a froth, and 189 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: Nition in many ways was the statesman of the party 190 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: at that point. Absolutely, this was brilliant, absolutely brilliant. The 191 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: first thing that happened was the convention was in San Francisco, 192 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: so delegates had to get out there early. So Nixon 193 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: picked the Sunday night before the convention started, and he 194 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: and Missus Nixon hosted a reception at the Saint Francis 195 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: Hotel to thank everyone that had supported them back in 196 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty And the reception that they held, everybody in 197 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: town that was a delegate came. The important part in 198 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: regards to myself was that they placed me right ahead 199 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: of Nixon. So as the delegates came in the guests 200 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: for the reception, they would first shake hands with me, 201 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: this young guy that nobody knew, and I was standing 202 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: right next to Nixon, and then missus Nixon was the 203 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: next person. Well, we worked it in such a way 204 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: as that I would introduce myself and they would say 205 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: their name, and of course he's kind of listening to 206 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: me and this exchange, so he's immediately refreshing his memory. 207 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: Most of these delegates he knew personally anyway, he had 208 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: a phenomenal memory for political people around the country. But 209 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 1: that reception went on for hours, and he thanked everybody 210 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: for coming and so forth. It was one little step 211 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: in the start of the comeback. And then on Tuesday 212 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: he went out and addressed the convention hall. He knew 213 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: and Bob Holdiman had shared with me from some of 214 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: the strategic meetings they had had in New York. Nixon 215 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: knew Goldwater was going to lose. And when Nixon had 216 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: run for governor in California, he ran against Joe Shell, 217 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: a very popular conservative. So it was important that Nixon 218 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: kind of healed the wounds of this effort that he 219 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: had done in sixty two, and so by coming in 220 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: and putting all of his chips even though I knew 221 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: Goldwater was going to lose, he put all of his 222 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: chips on backing Goldwater. He was one of the few 223 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: Republicans that did that. I mean, everybody else ran for 224 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: the hills. Nixon went out there. He campaigned newt harder 225 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: than Goldwater. I mean, that was the joke. But that 226 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: was what Richard Nixon was all about. He had a 227 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: strategy and he executed it well. And he comes back 228 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: in sixty five sixty six, I remember quickly, he again 229 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: goes out in campaigns more than any other Republican. Absolutely, 230 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: we had this thing when you came out of sixty 231 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: and lost, and you came out of sixty two and lost, 232 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: you had this Nixon loser thing, and we had to 233 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: convert that to Nixon the winner. So his efforts when 234 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: he went out there for congressional candidates in nineteen sixty 235 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: six was hugely important. And as you will well recall, 236 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: that's when Linda Johnson really made a mistake. At a 237 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: press conference in Minnelli. He calls Nixon a chronic campaigner, 238 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: and as a result of that, the National Committee gives 239 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: Nixon an a half hour of airtime and it does 240 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: nothing but help renew his credentials. And then you'll get 241 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: a kick out of this. On election night, I happened 242 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: to be in the hotel room with him, Bob Finch, 243 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: and some of the other people, And as these congressional 244 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: candidates would win around the country, mister Nixon would call 245 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: them and congratulate him. He would say, Charlie, I knew 246 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: you were going to win because remember how great that 247 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: crowd was, and he would repeat the night that he 248 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: had been out there campaigning for him. He really tied 249 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: it all together, and it was very important in terms 250 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: of bringing back the Republican Party and setting Nixon up. 251 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: I studied Nixon, and people tend to forget that prior 252 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: to the rise of Reagan, Nixon was probably the most 253 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: prominent modern Republican trying to bring the party into the 254 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: twentieth century and trying to offer a true national vision. 255 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: And part of it was just his sheer work ethic. 256 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if anybody in American politics 257 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: who has ever worked harder than I agree with you. 258 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: I try to really bring that across in the president's 259 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: man he loved to work, I mean politics and all 260 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: of that exchange. It was his DNA. When he was 261 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: at Duke Law School, the nickname for him there was 262 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: iron Butt, and his friends called him that because he 263 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: was always sitting at his desk working. It was like 264 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: the guy got his infusion for life from working, either 265 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: that or from going out to baseball games or sporting events. 266 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,959 Speaker 1: He loved sports, as you may know, but working that 267 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: was his hobby. It wasn't work for him, it was 268 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: his hobby. So you're part of this campaign team, and 269 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: when you go back and look at him, well, it 270 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: seems inevitable in retrospect. When sixty seven begins, You've got 271 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: George Romney as this very attractive moderate governor. You've got 272 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: Rockefeller lurking in the corners still with the New York delegation, 273 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 1: and with all of his personal money. You have Reagan 274 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: has just won as the governor, but has a national 275 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: audience in part out of his movie career and in 276 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: part out of his extraordinary speech for Goldwater in October 277 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: sixty four. So all these things are swirling and Nixon 278 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: is just kind of methodically working his way through it. 279 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: Were you in any doubt during sixty eight about getting 280 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: the nomination or to seem to you that it was 281 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: all going to work out. Well. I guess the answer 282 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 1: to that is that in politics, you are always in 283 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: doubt as to exactly what your opposition is going to do, 284 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: and that builds in the incentive to be tracking at 285 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: all and building up defenses. Romney, as you know, slid 286 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: his own throat when he said that he had been 287 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: duped on his trip to Vietnam. That was the end 288 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: of Romney, and he was kind of a stocking horse 289 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: we felt for Rockefeller. Rockefeller really never had much of 290 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 1: a chance, and Nixon just kept working that center ground. 291 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: He was smart enough and knew the conservatives that Reagan 292 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,959 Speaker 1: had to call less. Reagan had the popularity, and Reagan 293 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: had people that were out testing the waters for him, 294 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: but we had the people. We went in and got 295 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: Cliff White, who was one of the key people declining. 296 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: And this is to the credit of John Mitchell, the 297 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: campaign manager. We picked off key conservative people that had 298 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: worked very hard for Goldwater and knew the conservative movement 299 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: and we brought them into our fold. Nixon was very 300 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: good at this one particular thing newt He didn't stick 301 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: with his same staff for campaign to campaign. He would 302 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: always have things for of the people that had been 303 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: involved previously to go do. He put them on committees, 304 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: put them on to write white papers and everything. But 305 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: he was always infusing the campaign with new blood, always 306 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: bringing in the new people that had never won before 307 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: and were hungry, realizing that you needed that kind of energy, 308 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: you needed that kind of capacity, and he thought that way. 309 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: He really outmaneuvered all of this opposition that came along, 310 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: and I don't believe they really had a chance because 311 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: we kept winning primaries. We could not afford to lose 312 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: a primary because we had to have Nixon established again. 313 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: I go back to that loser thing. We had to 314 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 1: have him established as a winner. And in the president's man, 315 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: I really tried to bring that across as to what 316 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: that strategy was. You refer in your book to the 317 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: complex relationship between Nixon and Eisenhower. How would you describe that. 318 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 1: It's always puzzled me. Eisenhower was such a dominant figure. 319 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: I mean, You've got mister Nixon coming along, He's been 320 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 1: a congressman, senator, he becomes vice president, the scandal that 321 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: he goes through when he's a vice presidential candidate, and 322 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: Tom Dewey contacted Nixon's and said that maybe Nixon should 323 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: step aside, and Nixon decides he's going to address the 324 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 1: nation with the famous checker speach and saves himself. But 325 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: all of that kind of operation put him into a 326 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: lesser position, probably with Eisenhower at the outset, so that 327 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: there was a lot of ground that needed to be 328 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: made up with Eisenhower. Eisenhower was not the way that 329 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 1: I understand it. Now, you as a historian, you may 330 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: know more on this than I do. But my understanding 331 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: is that Eisenhower kind of picked up off the Charles 332 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: Degol model and wanted a separation the mystique between the 333 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 1: leader and those that were immediately under him. And Eisenhower 334 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: had this grand personality, I mean, he was beloved, if 335 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 1: you will, so he assigns to Nixon the political type stuff. 336 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: Nixon not only suffered in some ways by his pursuit 337 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: of hesse and all of that with the Eastern establishment 338 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: and the media, but he also became the political iron man, 339 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: if you will, that was always out there having to 340 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: carry the political water. And Eisenhower, I don't know that 341 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: he was that enamored with political figures. I think that 342 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: there was always kind of a separation there. I do 343 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: want to tell a real quick story. I went down 344 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: to Getsburg with Nixon. This is in nineteen sixty seven 345 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: when he went down to seek Eisenhower's advice, particularly on 346 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: the Vietnam War. And we drove down from Washington and 347 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: Nixon and Eisenhower met in the Gettysburg office at Eisenhower 348 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: had and they finished, and they come walking out and 349 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,239 Speaker 1: mister Nixon motions me over and he says, General, I 350 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: want you to meet another Dwight. And eisenhar was from 351 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,239 Speaker 1: Kansas and I was from Kansas, and it was one 352 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: of the most thrilling moments of my whole career with 353 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon meeting General Eisenhour. I find interesting that you 354 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: referred to him as general, not President. He did. He said, General, 355 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: I want you to meet another Dwight. I think that 356 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: I actually preferred General. I don't know on that, but 357 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: maybe so so. Nixon wins in sixty eight and what 358 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: is really an amazingly close race that for a little 359 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: while towards the end looked like Humphrey might pull it out, 360 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: although I think most analysts believe that had Wallace not 361 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: been in the race, the Nixon who gotten most of 362 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: that boat because they were very anti liberal. Humphrey had 363 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 1: been sort of the leading liberal of his generation. You 364 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: then get an opportunity to go to the White House 365 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: and to be in the White House. What was that like? 366 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: I mean, here, you are come a long way from 367 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: high school and Samjoriti by this stage, Boy, is that 368 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: an understatement? Yes, well it was thrilling, and this is 369 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: all happening very fast. I never had a chance to think, boy, 370 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: do I want to go to the White House? It 371 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: was we won, and that was the next logical step, 372 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: and we had to evolve into what it was that 373 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: we did. You are aware of the name Bryce Harlowe. 374 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: Bryce Harlowe was one of the finest men that ever 375 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: served in either the Eisenhower administration or the Nixon administration, 376 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: and he was a genius in terms of congressional relations 377 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: and so forth. He was an experienced hand and I 378 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 1: think one of the most helpful things for me was 379 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: Bryce and his advice, his guidance. I remember he said, 380 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: why this is temporary. You have a privilege, heir, that 381 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: is one that very few young men get. And basically 382 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: the lesson was, don't let it go to your head, 383 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: keep ground and realize that, as I say, this was 384 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: a real privilege. I got to know Bruce late in 385 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: his career, and he was sort of a legend. I mean, 386 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: there was a sense that he was one of the 387 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: great wise men who understood what you could and could 388 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: not do and how to get it done. Let me 389 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: mention one thing here. I was going through the films 390 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: of the China trip. You let off talking about China 391 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: the other day. I was going through all of the 392 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: film clips and here's Nixon coming out of the south 393 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: grounds of the White House. Will be fifty years tomorrow 394 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: that this happened. He comes out of the diplomatic entrance 395 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: and he shakes hands, goes down kind of a receiving line, 396 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: shaking hands with all of the people that were there, 397 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: and then he goes to the microphone and he leads off. 398 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: He says, I want to thank the bipartisan leadership of Congress, 399 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: Mike Mansfield, Carl Albert for being here with the Republican members. 400 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 1: And that really struck me. You know, it's national news 401 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: now if bipartisan leaders go down to meet with the president. 402 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: But what Bryce Harlowe and Nixon put in place when 403 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: Nixon became president. I got a memorandum the first week, 404 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: and that memorandum said, I want you to schedule the 405 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: bipartisan leaders to come in every Tuesday morning, and if 406 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 1: we miss on Tuesday, have him come Thursday. And for 407 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: the first few years of the Nixon administration, every week, 408 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: every week he met with those bipartisan leaders. He also 409 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: had Jerry Ford and Dirkson and the guys on the 410 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: Republican side. They had a private session with him. Keep 411 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: in mind, he had a Democratic Senate, a Democratic House, 412 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: and they got through all that legislation, and they got 413 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: it through because the men talked to one another, They 414 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: sat down with one another, they knew one another, they 415 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: trusted one another. Where they competitive, yes, yes they were competitive, 416 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 1: but it was such a different way of operating. So 417 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: Nixon's running for reelection, and I think clearly one of 418 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: the great pageantries is to run for reelection in Beijing 419 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: and Moscow and you actually end up with both those assignments. 420 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: What was it like trying to negotiate with the Chinese? 421 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: First of all, I mean for them, this is the 422 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: great opening moment with what has been their enemy for 423 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: a quarter century. And you show up well, let me 424 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: tell you. When you're negotiating to go to China, and 425 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: of course this with such a historic trip, it's not 426 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 1: like negotiating to go to Cleveland or something. I mean, 427 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: you go in there and you work with the state chairman. 428 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: You kind of laid down what the laws are from 429 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: the White House point of view and how things are 430 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: going to work. This was an entirely different kind of scenario. 431 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: And when they first started out, when Henry came back 432 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: from the secret trip and Nixon went and announced the 433 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: Burbank Studios that the Chinese had given him this invitation, 434 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: the President had myself at Bob Holdeman into the Oval office. 435 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: Kissinger joined us a little later, but he was talking 436 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: about We'll take a jet Star, which is a small airplane, 437 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: not air Force one at he says, and I'll take 438 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: eight or nine people. And his whole concept was this 439 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: was going to be more like a business meeting. Then 440 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: as it evolved and we get down to the end 441 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: of the line, there are three hundred and ninety one 442 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: people in our party. So this whole thing expanded from 443 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: a concept of being kind of a business meeting to 444 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: this massive thing. Now the thing that became so critical 445 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: on China and ties into all of the politics that 446 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: you are referring to is the fact that the big 447 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: thing becomes television. And as the Chinese start grasping how 448 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: the world attention is focusing on this thing, and as 449 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: the White House, Nixon and over start focusing on it, 450 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: we realize what's happening and that our whole nation is 451 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: going to go to China with Richard Nixon. And it 452 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: was of such magnitude that, as you undoubtedly recall, I 453 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: mean in the morning hours or evening hours, all across America, 454 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: everybody was tuned in to the China trip. And we 455 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: didn't have the media fragmentation that you have now. We 456 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: had ABC, CBS, and NBC, and so the focus was 457 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: much more concentrated than what we have in a split 458 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: media world that we live in now. So all of 459 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: a sudden, the planning and everything that we put together, 460 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: we find that the Chinese are grasping the significance of 461 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: all this because they want to open up the nation. 462 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: I mean, this wasn't just us. They had an agenda 463 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: and they wanted to come rejoin the world community, if 464 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: you will. But the main point I want to get 465 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: across is this was evolutionary. The whole way that it unfolded, 466 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: kept growing and growing and ended up being that magnitude 467 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: that it was. How many weeks or months did you 468 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: spend planning and laying out the China trip when Nixon 469 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: announced on the fifteenth of July, That's when he went 470 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: to Burbank Studio. After that announcement of the invitation to visit, 471 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: we went back to Washington and I moved from the 472 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: West Wing where my office was. I moved to the 473 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: bomb Shelder. Nell Yates was my secretary, and Ron Walker, 474 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: who was in charge of my advanced operation, and then 475 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: the military aids and the Secret Service that we set 476 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: up at headquarters, and we did nothing but work on 477 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: China for the next two and a half three months, 478 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: and then I went with Pissinger in October of nineteen 479 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: seventy one. We went over with basically these big notebooks, 480 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: our idea of a plan of how it might work. 481 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: And our problem became that the Chinese would listen to us. 482 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: They were all ears listening to us and so forth, 483 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: but we would get no answers back. And the importance 484 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: of that is I referenced if we were making a 485 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: trip to Cincinnati. If we're going to Cincinnati, I could 486 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: come back and the President say what's our agenda, what's 487 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: going to happen? And I'd say, well, it's this, this, this, 488 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: and this. On the Chinese trip, we wouldn't get answers. 489 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: For example, we never knew when Nixon would meet with Chairman. 490 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: Now it ended up he met with him the first afternoon. 491 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: It was one of the most important strategic little pieces 492 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: of the outset because it happened shortly after we got 493 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: to Beijing, and it kind of gave it a seal 494 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: of approval to the trip and everything that unfolded. When 495 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: you saw him al for the first time. What was 496 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: your reaction to mal Well? I never saw mal You didn't, Okay, 497 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: let me explain. I was sitting in a meeting with 498 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: Secret Service and our advanced people, and Secret Service agent 499 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: came in and said, Premier Chewing Lae is right outside. 500 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: So my counterpart was Hans Sue. Hans Sue was later 501 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,479 Speaker 1: to become the first Ambassador to the United States. After 502 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: we got past the liz On offices, so I go 503 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: out and Sue says to me, and Choin Laa is 504 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: standing right there. He says, the chairman wants to meet 505 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: with the president, Chairman Mau, just right out of the blues. 506 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: So I went to the Nixon suite and went in, 507 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: and I said, sir, he was there in a sport coach, 508 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: sitting in one of those big chairs, with these yellow 509 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: pads scattered all around him, you know, doing his notes, 510 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: just like I'd seen him a hundred times in hotel rooms. 511 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: He's there working, And I said, sir, Chairman Maul wants 512 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: to meet with you right now. Oh oh, And he's up. 513 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: He takes off the sport coat, puts on his suit jacket, 514 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: and he's out the door within seconds. And so the 515 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: people that went off with him to see Chairman Mau, 516 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: it was a very limited number. It was Henry Kissinger, 517 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:14,320 Speaker 1: Winston Lord, who later became an ambassador to China, Bob Taylor, 518 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: and Nixon. So it was the four of them were 519 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: the only four. In doing my research and going back 520 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: through all this for the President's man, Haldeman was very upset, 521 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 1: not upset that Nixon went to meet with Mau, but 522 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: he was upset by how it all happened. Because we 523 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: didn't know where they were. We had no communications with them. 524 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: I mean, we spent these hundreds of millions of dollars 525 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: making sure that you know, the guy carrying the black 526 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: case with the nuclear secrets in it, that guy's lost somewhere. 527 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: We have no communications with the president, and we know 528 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: in the United States this would never happen, and yet 529 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: we let this happen. And ron Ziegler, who was Press secretary, 530 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: it comes in and he said, what's this about Nixon 531 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: being off? To see now? And he says, what am 532 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: I supposed to tell the press? Are we supposed to 533 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 1: tell the press that we have no idea where the 534 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: president is? So it was a kind of a complicated 535 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: little period. That's wild. So now Kissinger had coached do 536 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: some on dealing with the Chinese. He did, he did. 537 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: He was wonderful. Was that helpful? Yes, we had, coming 538 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 1: from the State Department, coming from the CIA, all this 539 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: background information on China, none of which was right. It 540 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: was so old, so out of date. So it ended 541 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: up it didn't matter. But in any case, Kissinger was 542 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: extremely helpful. You know, when you look at China and 543 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: this whole unfoldment, you've got to understand that the visionary 544 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 1: and architectural genius, in my opinion, was Richard Nixon. The 545 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 1: older that was along with him was Henry Kissinger, and 546 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: it was a unique combination of these two men that 547 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 1: came together and made this happen. And Henry's primary goal, 548 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: first of all, he vetoed John Erlichman taking the role 549 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 1: that I had, because he didn't want anybody as strong 550 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: as Eerlickman to be interfering and have any conduits back 551 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: to Nixon other than what Henry wanted himself. And that's 552 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: how I ended up getting that position on that as 553 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: acting Chief of Protocol on that trip. But Henry explained 554 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: to me on the airplane going over and in numerous 555 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: meetings at the White House, how the Chinese worked, how 556 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: they thought, how they operated, what the meaning of face was, 557 00:36:52,920 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: so that us that are typical Americans handled it differently. 558 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: It wasn't that we didn't protect what we believed in 559 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: as American citizens. It's that we were dealing with a 560 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: whole new nation in terms of the ways that we 561 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: had dealt with other nations. It was just so much different. 562 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: Do you deal with the Chinese and then you turn 563 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 1: right around and now you're dealing with the Russians, Yes, 564 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,280 Speaker 1: which must have been culturally very very different. Yes, So 565 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,720 Speaker 1: in February we're with the Chinese, and then we switch 566 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: over and we're getting ready to do the summit in Moscow, 567 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: which where the President signed the strategic arms limitation talks. 568 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that when 569 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,280 Speaker 1: we started dealing with the Russians it was like dealing 570 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: with a bunch of thugs. The Chinese were gracious. I mean, 571 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 1: they may have been wanting to slit our throats, but 572 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: they would have done it graciously. The Russians are taking 573 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,760 Speaker 1: sledgehammers and trying to beat our brains out. In China, 574 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: they may not tell you something that is going to happen, 575 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 1: but when they do tell you, it happens exactly the 576 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: way they tell you, and it's very up, above board 577 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 1: and honest. In Moscow we found that dealing with the 578 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: Russians was just like night and day difference. We got 579 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: through it, but it took a lot more intestinal fortitude 580 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: and it was much more difficult. I understand. One of 581 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: the warnings you got in Russia was that if you 582 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 1: met an attractive woman in a public space, you should 583 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: assume she was a spotty Oh well, they tried to 584 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: seduce our advancement. They tried to seduce others. The female 585 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: secretaries that would travel on our trips were instructed to 586 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 1: change their clothes and everything under a sheet because the 587 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: cameras were spying on them. In their rooms. You would 588 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: walk down the hallway and all of a sudden you 589 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: would see this door that was kind of between rooms, 590 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: and inside the rooms was one way glass, and the 591 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: Russians would be in these corridors spying into the rooms. 592 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 1: We had machines where WAKA, the White House communication to 593 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: the agency along with the CIA, took and made tapes 594 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: with all kinds of different tracks on it so that 595 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,240 Speaker 1: when you played it it was music, people talking different 596 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: languages and everything. And we would set though between us 597 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: to talk back and forth to one another because we 598 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: knew that everything was being recorded and eaves dropped on. 599 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:50,280 Speaker 1: It's amazing, and tomorrow we'll have part two on Watergate. 600 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: After all this, Nixon wins one of the largest election 601 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: victories in history. The momentum seems to be there, and 602 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: then the Watergate scandal weeks which really began June seventeenth, 603 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, or a break in and the Democratic 604 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: National Committee Headquarters by some guys who really were stunningly incompetent. 605 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: I mean this is sort of a low level screw 606 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: up that then evolves into a cover up, and it's 607 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,280 Speaker 1: the cover up that really begins to be like a cancer. 608 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Dwight Chapin. You can get 609 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,800 Speaker 1: a link to buy his new book, The President's Man, 610 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 1: The Memoirs of Nixon's Trusted Aid on our show page 611 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 1: at Newtsworld dot com. News World is produced by Gingwich 612 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,880 Speaker 1: Street sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Garnsey Slump, 613 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: our producer is Rebecca Howe, and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 614 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Pendley. 615 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at Gingwich Street sixty. If 616 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple 617 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 1: Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give 618 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about. 619 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of newts World can sign up for 620 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,359 Speaker 1: my three free weekly columns at Ingridge three sixty dot 621 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingridge. This is Newtsworld