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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It is Monday, August twenty fifth,

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Speaker 2: and guess what, we have a stacked night of headlines.

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Speaker 2: Award winning journalist, author, and documentarian Robert Rand's here to

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Speaker 2: unpack all the latest developments in this Menendez Brothers parole denial.

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Speaker 2: He has so much to say. He is the guy

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Speaker 2: that was there from day one and as recently as

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Speaker 2: this entire parole hearing shenanigans. He's been following it closely

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Speaker 2: and is here to give us will lease some breaking news.

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Speaker 2: So please, we're so glad that you're with us. Plus,

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Speaker 2: we're going to dive a little bit deeper into the

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Speaker 2: Gallen Maxwell interview transcript. Yes, getting a lot of buzz

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Speaker 2: right now. Also, there's a new memoir coming out by

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Speaker 2: the now deceased victim, you know, Virginia Guffrey, who has

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Speaker 2: apparently something to say from after death. And also the

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Speaker 2: alleged serial teenage killer not a serial killer. The teenage

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Speaker 2: girl who was allegedly killed her mother and her stepfather

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Speaker 2: was back in court last week, and we have a

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Speaker 2: really special person with us tonight. You may recognize her

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Speaker 2: voice from the podcast Murder one oh one that kat

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Speaker 2: Studios and iHeart did together. It was number one, and

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Speaker 2: Riley Whitson, who is nineteen years old, making her radio

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Speaker 2: debut tonight. You'll recognize her voice because she is a

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Speaker 2: detective and our junior producer here on staff, and she's

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Speaker 2: going to be giving us all the inside scoop. I'm

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Speaker 2: Stephanie Leidecker, and i head of Katie Studios, where we

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Speaker 2: make true crime podcasts like Murder one oh one or

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Speaker 2: The Idaho Massacre season three out now, please check it

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Speaker 2: out on iHeart. And we also make documentaries also like

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Speaker 2: The Idaho Student Murder is currently streaming on Peacock and

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Speaker 2: I get to do here every night with body move in,

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Speaker 2: our crime analysts and of course crime producer Courtney Armstrong,

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Speaker 2: who was away for a few days and now it

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Speaker 2: feels like we're never letting you leave again. So the

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Speaker 2: band is back together and we have so many things

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Speaker 2: to discuss, but right up, let's go right to Robert

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Speaker 2: Rand Robert, are you with us?

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Speaker 3: Good evening. I'm with you, and I have a lot

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Speaker 3: of new areas to share with your audience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we are anxiously waiting for it. We know that

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Speaker 2: you have been pulled in a million directions, whether it's

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Speaker 2: on CNN or News Nation, You've been, frankly everywhere, and

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Speaker 2: for all the right reasons. You have been a journalist

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Speaker 2: and an advocate for the Menandez brothers to be released.

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Speaker 2: So obviously their parole for both, if you haven't been following,

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Speaker 2: have been denied, and we want to get to all

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Speaker 2: of that and also what's to come. So who wants

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Speaker 2: to start first? In terms of a little background, Courtney,

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Speaker 2: why don't you get it away?

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Speaker 4: Robert was so thrilled.

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Speaker 3: To have you, so happy to be here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So, as Stephanie mentioned, both Lyle and Eric Menandez were

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Speaker 5: both denied parole, and this is after being in prison

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Speaker 5: for just decades for murdering their parents in nineteen eighty nine,

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Speaker 5: and the parole seems to have been denied because of

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Speaker 5: concerns over alleged ongoing risks and prison infractions, and this

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Speaker 5: just despite rehabilitation efforts. So Robert We understand that you

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Speaker 5: were part of the media pool during the hearings and

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Speaker 5: have been in touch with the Menendez family members since.

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Speaker 4: Tell us everything, okay.

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Speaker 3: The first headline I can share with you is that

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Speaker 3: I predict that Eric and Lyle Menendez will be suitable

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Speaker 3: Parle and the California pro Board will set them free,

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Speaker 3: maybe in thirteen months to two years from now, the

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Speaker 3: next time they appear before the pro Board. The brothers

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Speaker 3: were told by Parle commissioners on Thursday and Friday what

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Speaker 3: they needed to do to get out of prison, and

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Speaker 3: that was very civil advice, which was you need to

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Speaker 3: come back to board and you can't have any infractions,

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Speaker 3: no sou on usage, no violence, know nothing. And so

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Speaker 3: Eric and Lyle Menendus have received that message clear, and

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Speaker 3: I predict that they will the next time they appear

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Speaker 3: before the board thirteen months two years from now. They

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Speaker 3: will have a Christine record going forward from today and

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Speaker 3: there will be no infractions, and I predict that the

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Speaker 3: brothers will be set free and set them to their

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Speaker 3: family as they should be.

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Speaker 2: And Robert, you've been nice enough to be with us

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Speaker 2: before and have really offered extraordinary contacts because this has

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Speaker 2: been a contra virtial case obviously for many many years now.

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Speaker 2: If you're just joining us, Lyle and Eric Menendez were

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Speaker 2: convicted of murdering their parents back in nineteen nine eighty

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Speaker 2: nine in Beverly Hills, and listen, they've been serving time

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Speaker 2: behind bars by many accounts stellar you know, prisoners, and

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of discretion used about whether or

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Speaker 2: not they've served their time. Maybe they were overcharged because

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Speaker 2: some very key information was left out of their last trial.

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Speaker 2: And you know, they've been behind bars for decades at

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Speaker 2: this point, eighteen months to a year. That might seem

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Speaker 2: like a long time when you have hope, right, I

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Speaker 2: would have to assume that once you're behind bars and

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Speaker 2: you're assuming fifty years to life, you settle in, right,

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Speaker 2: despite the fact that they have very meaningful relationships with

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Speaker 2: family outside of prison, and they're married, right, and they're yeah,

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Speaker 2: one of them is married, and one of them is,

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Speaker 2: you know, in a very intense, beautiful relationship. And you know,

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Speaker 2: Eric has a stepdaughter who has spoken out it's going

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Speaker 2: to be hard when you think you were going to

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Speaker 2: be home for Thanksgiving, which all of us were saying, right.

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Speaker 2: That was in the tea leaves at one point their lawyer,

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Speaker 2: ger Gos, who's a very you know, industrious and important lawyer.

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Speaker 2: He was really claiming they were going to be home

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Speaker 2: for the holidays, and how are they holding up? Is

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Speaker 2: it harder to sort of react Tomate.

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Speaker 3: No, Actually, both brothers are very suit spiritusd you know,

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Speaker 3: there was I think there was confusion from Friday night

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Speaker 3: until today the general public and also some of the

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Speaker 3: members of the Menandez and Anderson families I spoke with today.

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Speaker 3: They thought, as the many people in the public, that

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Speaker 3: the Pearl beton denied Thursday and Friday was a loss

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Speaker 3: for the brothers set back, but they may have lost

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Speaker 3: a battle, but they will win the war. And the

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Speaker 3: person who explained everything to me is very interesting named

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Speaker 3: Honore Brown. He is also known as the rapper called

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Speaker 3: X Rated. Yeah, it's good, about an hour with him

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Speaker 3: on the phone today. He's a very good source of mind.

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Speaker 3: Also a good friend. I'm happy to call him a friend.

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Speaker 3: Honore was released under the California Youth Defender loss in

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Speaker 3: September twenty eighteen. And Honore had been to the Pearl

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Speaker 3: Board one time and he was denied for all and

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Speaker 3: then he came back in thirteen or fourteen months and

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Speaker 3: he was released. And so that's what's going to happen

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Speaker 3: in the Nondus case, according to what I've discussed with Honore,

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Speaker 3: And you know, we had DA Nathan Ackman, who have

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Speaker 3: great respect for However, you know, he's.

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Speaker 2: No friend of the process right now, he is slowing

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Speaker 2: it down for sure.

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Speaker 3: I don't believe that he knows the case as well

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Speaker 3: as he leads people to believe. He loves to be

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Speaker 3: on TV. You know, he's he keeps repeating this false

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Speaker 3: information that Jose Kitty Menandez were kneecapped by Eric Laumanandez

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Speaker 3: when they killed their parents. And I've seen all the

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Speaker 3: crimecy photos. I've seen all the autopsy photos in the

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Speaker 3: nineteen nineties after the trials, and you know, Kitty and

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Speaker 3: Jose Menandas were not kneecapped. So I wish Dia Hoppan

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Speaker 3: would repeating that false information. But again I have respect

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Speaker 3: for the DA, and you know, I'd like to see

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Speaker 3: him go back to doing his job, you know, making

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Speaker 3: the streets of Lasa. If I've lived here for thirty years,

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Speaker 3: and you know, we've got major problems with Humbles and

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Speaker 3: Cammon smash and grab robberies, just clino activity in general.

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Speaker 3: So Da Hofman needs to focus on his job, not

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Speaker 3: obsessed about a thirty six year old murder case.

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Speaker 6: Right, you're listening to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio on

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Speaker 6: Body Moving, and we're here with Courtney Armstrong, Stephanie Leidecker,

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Speaker 6: and journalist Robert Rand. We're right in the middle of

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Speaker 6: talking about the Menendez brothers' parole hearings. Robert is it

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Speaker 6: Are you hopeful because now the Menendez brothers have a

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Speaker 6: roadmap for success.

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Speaker 3: Well, yes, that is exactly why I'm okay. You know,

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Speaker 3: it was very important today that I had that hour

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Speaker 3: long discussion with Honre Brown, the rapper x rated, because

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Speaker 3: he has been through the exact process that Eric alam

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Speaker 3: Menandez are going through right now. He appeared before the

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Speaker 3: pro board, was denied parole. Then he went back before

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Speaker 3: the pro board a year and a half later and

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Speaker 3: they set him breath And I believe that that's the

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Speaker 3: same thing that's going to happen with the menandas brothers.

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Speaker 3: But actually they have two other paths to freedom. They

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Speaker 3: have a habeas corpus petition that was filed in May

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Speaker 3: of twenty twenty three, the day after our Peacock documentary,

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Speaker 3: Menanda's Plus Nudo Boys to Trade came out. And the

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Speaker 3: reason that's so important is that our documentary he revealed

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Speaker 3: new evidence that there was a nefarious connection between the

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Speaker 3: Menunda state and the boy band Menudo. And I know

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Speaker 3: that sounds crazy, but people have to watch that documentary

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Speaker 3: to understand why this is so important. And also there's

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Speaker 3: another piece of major new evidence that I discovered in

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Speaker 3: when I was visiting March Cano. The aunt of eric

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Speaker 3: lyoman Ed is the godmother of Erkmanns, and that is

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Speaker 3: a letter that Erckmannans wrote in late nineteen eighty eight

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Speaker 3: to his cousin Andy Cano. Andy was the key witness

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Speaker 3: for the defense in the first trial. Sadly, he passed

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Speaker 3: away from a national Stadon Bill overdose in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and three, and so his room was untouched by March Keno.

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Speaker 3: I was visiting her in April of twenty eighteen and

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Speaker 3: she invited me to look through his dresser full of

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Speaker 3: personal papers, and within fifteen minutes I found this letter

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Speaker 3: and I realized immediately when I read it that this

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Speaker 3: could have a major impact on the case.

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Speaker 5: Right, all right, Robert, I had a question on exactly

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Speaker 5: what you're talking about. A listener named Alisha actually sent

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Speaker 5: a DM into the show and it says regarding the

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Speaker 5: Menandez brother as the letter that was found, I wonder

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Speaker 5: when that letter was sent to the cousin. Was it

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Speaker 5: a quote, we are going to do this, so let's

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Speaker 5: cover our tracks by preparing this letter.

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Speaker 4: So that's a question that.

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Speaker 3: Cay one hundred percent believed that the letter is authentic.

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Speaker 3: The letter actually for I don't mean to go off

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Speaker 3: on a standard here. The letter was first included in

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Speaker 3: a Barbara Walders Special Undiscovery ID in twenty fifteen. The

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Speaker 3: problem was that they had gotten the letter from Marx

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Speaker 3: Kenno and they showed you know this one key pargraph

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Speaker 3: where Eric talks about that he's afraid every night to

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Speaker 3: hear his father coming down the hall because that could

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Speaker 3: mean that he would be essay. And so the problem

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Speaker 3: with the Barbara Walder Show was the producer had never

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Speaker 3: covered them in this case before. So they interviewed an

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Speaker 3: attorney who told them, well, the defense tried to introduce

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Speaker 3: this letter into the second trial, but they were unsuccessful.

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Speaker 3: The judge ruled against them, and the letter was never revealed.

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Speaker 3: That's not true. What happened is that the letter really,

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Speaker 3: you know, was never seen until that Barbara Wallers producer

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Speaker 3: saw it. But as I said, he never come the case.

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Speaker 3: And then when I saw it a couple years later,

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Speaker 3: I realized, this is something brand new. This is not,

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Speaker 3: you know, something that was a piece of evidence that

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Speaker 3: was willed against in the trials in ninety three, ninety four,

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Speaker 3: ninety five, ninety six. So I immediately called Cliff Gardner, the

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Speaker 3: brothers Tell attorney in Berkeley, and then I hand carried

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Speaker 3: that letter. I knew it was so important from West

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Speaker 3: Pombeach over to Berkeley.

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Speaker 6: You're absolutely right, it's very important, and I want to

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Speaker 6: continue the conversation about this letter. We're going to continue

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Speaker 6: this important conversation with journalist Robert Rand.

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Speaker 2: Keep it right here. True Crime Tonight, We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. Welcome back to True Crime Tonight

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Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all the time. I'm

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Speaker 2: Stephanie Leidecker here with Body Movin and Courtney Armstrong and

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Speaker 2: Robert Rand, who is a journalist and author, a documentarian.

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Speaker 2: If you haven't seen his documentary about the Menandez brothers,

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Speaker 2: the Menendez plus Menudo boys betrayed, Please do because it

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Speaker 2: really was extremely pivotal until where we are now. And

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Speaker 2: if you haven't been paying attention, Eric Menandez and Lyle

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Speaker 2: Menendez brothers, both convicted for murdering their parents back in

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine, have both been denied bail in the

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Speaker 2: last few days Thursday, Friday of last week parole And

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Speaker 2: it's important because there is no bail involved, but the

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Speaker 2: parole is very it was very controversial. Look, you know,

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Speaker 2: and just to kind of reset this really briefly, and Robert,

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Speaker 2: we're so glad you're staying with us. Cut me off

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Speaker 2: from getting any of this wrong. But in reality, yes,

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Speaker 2: they took their parents' lives. They have conceded to that.

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Speaker 2: And we know that there has been sexual assault by

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Speaker 2: Dad Jose Menendez, and that the boys were really suffering

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Speaker 2: and felt that their lives were in danger. Had that

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Speaker 2: information been allowed in their final trial prior to you know,

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Speaker 2: this is again you know nineteen what nine eighty nine,

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Speaker 2: ninety three was when this last trial was. You know,

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Speaker 2: none of these things were allowed in court, and perhaps

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Speaker 2: if it was, they would have likely been brought up

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Speaker 2: on manslaughter charges and then their term would have been spent.

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Speaker 2: They would have already been released, you know practically by

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Speaker 2: now like ten years ago. Yeah, like overserved their time.

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Speaker 2: And remember they got their degrees behind and they'd become

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Speaker 2: advocates and they have families of their own. So there

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Speaker 2: was you know, your documentary and then yet another documentary

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Speaker 2: that aired recently, and you know, then there was that

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Speaker 2: scripted you know series by Ryan Murphy called Monsters and

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Speaker 2: TikTok sort of really created this epic swell where there

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Speaker 2: was this outcry for people wanting the Menendez brothers to

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Speaker 2: be released. So parole felt very real. And while it's

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Speaker 2: extremely uncommon to be given parole on the first try,

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Speaker 2: I mean that's pretty much unheard of. There were so

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Speaker 2: many mitigating factors and you know, you brought it up

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Speaker 2: where you know, there's maybe some political factors behind it,

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Speaker 2: but here we are, and you've been following this case

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Speaker 2: since day one, quite literally, and first off, thank you

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Speaker 2: for giving us the context. But it's been really we've

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Speaker 2: gotten so many emails and people reaching out, whether they're

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Speaker 2: outraged or confused or just want more context. So you know,

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Speaker 2: thank you for adding it.

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Speaker 6: You know one thing I wanted to add about the

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Speaker 6: letter very quickly. I'm sorry, Robert is the previous DM

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Speaker 6: we had from one of our listeners about the letter,

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Speaker 6: saying could it have been like a setup to cover

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Speaker 6: their tracks? And I kind of wanted to answer that

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Speaker 6: really quickly too. I wanted to add. I wanted to

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Speaker 6: add if it was a setup, I do believe this

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Speaker 6: letter is legitimate. I believe it was heartfelt. I believe

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Speaker 6: it's completely real. I don't believe it was a setup.

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Speaker 6: If it was, Eric or Lyle would have pointed to

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Speaker 6: this letter a long time ago, but they didn't write.

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Speaker 2: They never did.

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Speaker 6: Robert Robert found the letter. The guy that we're talking

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Speaker 6: to right now, the journalist Robert Ran, he found the letter.

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Speaker 6: So if it was a setup, I do believe they

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Speaker 6: would have been like, oh, well wait a minute, we

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Speaker 6: wrote this letter. It's predated, you know, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 6: So I just wanted to throw that out there really quick.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. So a couple of different thanks. First, there

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Speaker 3: were two trials, ninety three ninety four. Second trial was

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Speaker 3: ninety five ninety six. Oh, Carl had the misfortune of

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Speaker 3: starting eight days after OJ Simpson was acquitted a murder.

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Speaker 3: So you know, the DA's up in LA. They were

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Speaker 3: going for blood. You know, they couldn't convict the high

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Speaker 3: profile cases. They lost Rodney King, which set off the

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Speaker 3: LA riots in ninety two, they lost oj, they lost well.

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Speaker 3: Menanda's one ended in two mistrials. Half the jurors in

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Speaker 3: the first trial voted for Mantbum. In the first trial,

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Speaker 3: the Menanda's defense was allowed to put on fifty six

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Speaker 3: witnesses who told a very detailed story about abuse and dysfunction.

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Speaker 3: In the Menanda's failing In Menanda's two, the second trial,

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Speaker 3: the retrial judge Stanley Weisberg, the trial judge, reversed almost

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Speaker 3: all of his evidence, roughly at the very start of

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Speaker 3: the trial. The first thing he did was to kick

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Speaker 3: the car TV camera out of the court room because

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Speaker 3: he knew that would cut way down on the coverage

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Speaker 3: the retrial. Then he proceeded to you know, in the

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Speaker 3: endartments or you know, without as many eyes watching him.

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Speaker 3: He proceeded to reverse all of his evident rulings, and

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Speaker 3: so the defense at the retrial was only allowed to

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Speaker 3: put on twenty five witnesses versus fifty six in the

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Speaker 3: first trial, and Judge Weisberg severely limited what the witnesses

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Speaker 3: in the retroyal could say, and so you didn't hear

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Speaker 3: about a lot of the facts that led to half

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Speaker 3: the jurors the two juries in the first trial, one

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Speaker 3: jury in the second rivel. Half the jurors in the

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Speaker 3: first trial voted for manslaughter with a manslaughter conviction, which

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Speaker 3: is the way this case should have ended. There would

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Speaker 3: have been the brothers would have been sentenced to twenty

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Speaker 3: two years in prison and they would have been out

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Speaker 3: for years now. Instead they'd been incorcerated for thirty five

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Speaker 3: years and five months. And that's a miscarriage of justice

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Speaker 3: that happened at the second trial, where the defense was

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Speaker 3: not allowed put on the entire abuse of it, not

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Speaker 3: allowed to put on the entire family history.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: And Robert, we have a couple of questions, And anyone

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Speaker 5: who's listening, who wants to speak with Robert Rand and

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Speaker 5: ask your questions, give us a call eighty to eighty

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Speaker 5: three to one crime. He is here and he is

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Speaker 5: the man who knows everything. So I'm curious, Robert, with

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Speaker 5: the hearings, a how are the family members sort of

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Speaker 5: holding up what was that like for them, you know,

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Speaker 5: nine and eleven hours. And then also what do you

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Speaker 5: think of the breach of how the audio was released

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Speaker 5: from the parole hearing, which should not have happened.

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Speaker 3: Okay, those are several questions and I'll knock him down

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Speaker 3: for a good time. So the family members, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was part of the media pool. I was actually

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Speaker 3: you know, in the room watching the hearings. That was

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Speaker 3: a closed zoom session. All the parole hearings in California

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Speaker 3: been on zoom since the pandemic. So the only people

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Speaker 3: that actually saw the hearings were Eric Allaumnendez, their parole attorney,

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Speaker 3: Heidi Rummel, and there were about twenty twenty five members

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Speaker 3: of the family that were witnesses in so those are

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Speaker 3: the only people that saw the hearing, along with one

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Speaker 3: pool reporter. Initially, the CDCR Prison Boston Student California, We're

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Speaker 3: going to allow two dozen of media members to watch

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Speaker 3: the zoom and the family objected to that, and so

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Speaker 3: there was one pool reporter from the Ala, Sames James Quely,

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Speaker 3: who did a fantastic job of providing pool reports in

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Speaker 3: real time. So throughout the day Thursday and Friday, I

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Speaker 3: was receiving these pool reports via email. We were not

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Speaker 3: allowed to report any information from the hearings until the

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Speaker 3: parole board and out their decision. After a ten hour

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Speaker 3: hearing for air Fornendas on Thursday and an eleven hour

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Speaker 3: hearing for Levenanda sunt Friday. The average parole hearing in

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Speaker 3: California is only three or four hours long, so the

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Speaker 3: fact that these hearings went on for so long is

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Speaker 3: kind of strange. But as I said, we have these

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Speaker 3: pool reports in real time, but we couldn't report any

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Speaker 3: information until we had a decision from the pull A board.

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Speaker 3: So that's, you know, the backdrop of what was happening

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Speaker 3: with the media why you couldn't hear new information during

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Speaker 3: the day when the hearings were going on. So over

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Speaker 3: the past few days, I've been able to talk with

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Speaker 3: a number of family members and they've told me, you know,

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Speaker 3: additional information besides the poor reports. And I spoke to

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Speaker 3: some family members today and they were confused, you know,

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Speaker 3: they thought this was a terrible loss that the brothers

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Speaker 3: were denied parole Thursday at Fartay. But as I mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 3: I had now long with Honore Brown, the rapper X

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Speaker 3: rated who spent twenty six years in the California prison system,

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Speaker 3: and that's how he got to be a very close

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Speaker 3: friend of Eric and Lyle Menendez. Yes they are more

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Speaker 3: than friends. Actually, Eric Menendez wrote a two page signal

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Speaker 3: space letter to the parole board, you know, explaining why

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Speaker 3: Honore Brown was suitable for parole, and Aire is grateful

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Speaker 3: to the Menanda's brothers. In fact, in the one of

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Speaker 3: the recengineering either one of the last two, Honore testified

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Speaker 3: and he said that he had been to Menendez University

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Speaker 3: the brothers had helped him prepare for the pro board.

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Speaker 3: So really, the story is just full of these, you know,

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Speaker 3: really interesting backcoids. And I'm actually going to do a

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Speaker 3: final edition of my book. The original book came out

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Speaker 3: in September twenty eight team. The book was re released

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Speaker 3: last fall, a week before Monsters. You know, I really

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Speaker 3: should send Ryan Murphy a bouquet death flowers, right for

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Speaker 3: raking the awareness of the case to the three hundred

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Speaker 3: million Netflix front. I was interviewed in the Netflix documentary

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Speaker 3: that came out last October. But here's the Here, here

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Speaker 3: are the facts. What gets you out of prison after

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Speaker 3: thirty five years of in custory is hard evident, like

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Speaker 3: we had in the Menendous Manuo documentary, not a buzzy

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Speaker 3: TV show, right.

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Speaker 6: True, that's correct because like your your documentary is factual.

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Speaker 6: Where is the Monsters? It's scripted, it's you know, it's

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Speaker 6: made for TV. There's a lot of sensational in behind people, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let me just talk about one scene. You know

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Speaker 3: in Monsters, they had a scene where the actors playing

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Speaker 3: Eric Lysle were in a shower together naked and making

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Speaker 3: out right. That scene never happened, but you know, people

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Speaker 3: watch Netflix, and they did in the scripture Jurist, and

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Speaker 3: they believe that that was real.

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Speaker 2: Right, But it did rally the troops, right, it did

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Speaker 2: give them a.

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Speaker 3: Swell of such I plan to send Ryan Murphy a

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Speaker 3: bouquet of dead flowers. I thank it for racing awareness

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Speaker 3: of the case, and to thank the Netflix documentary racing

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Speaker 3: awareness of the case. You know, Netflix has a huge audience.

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Speaker 3: You know, I heard your introduction that you guys have

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Speaker 3: a documentary on Peacock about the Idaho murders, and so

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Speaker 3: we are Peacock buddies.

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Speaker 6: Yes, we're also on Netflix buddies to Netflix Buddies to

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Speaker 6: I have a documentary on Netflix.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well I have to watch your stuff.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, don't with cats. It's called It's pretty interesting. But

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Speaker 6: enough about me.

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Speaker 3: About no, Actually I saw that documentary that okay, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm little in the documentary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's me.

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Speaker 3: That's a great documentary.

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Speaker 2: We have been getting so many calls and talkbacks, Robert

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Speaker 2: specifically about this case because A, you've been here before

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Speaker 2: and have really shed some light in context on a

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Speaker 2: their lives behind bars, and yes, they have really turned

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Speaker 2: things around. They've acknowledged their part. It appears that they

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Speaker 2: have really been abused in a way that should never

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Speaker 2: happen to two boys, especially by their father with mom

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Speaker 2: looking on. We actually have an audio clip that I

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Speaker 2: think sets up some of the discussion about Kitty Menendez,

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Speaker 2: the mother in this case, who was you know, murdered

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Speaker 2: by her sons. But again, if dad was abusing them

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Speaker 2: and mom was aware of it and looking the other way,

433
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 2: what does that mean? It says a lot, And there's

434
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 2: been a lot of chatter that you know, well, you know,

435
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: these boys are a danger. They're men obviously now, but

436
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 2: they're a danger to society because look what they did

437
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 2: to mom. You know, if they had something against Dad,

438
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 2: that's one thing. But what about mom? And you know

439
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: we're hearing it here. Imagine your mom is aware that

440
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 2: you're being abused and is looking the other way. That's

441
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: a tough spot.

442
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 6: I just don't know if it's a murderable spot. I mean,

443
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 6: there's a lot of different options that you can take.

444
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 6: But like he said, like Eric said, though he viewed

445
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 6: them as one that night, and I'm sure Lyle probably

446
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 6: felt the same way. I don't know how I would feel,

447
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 6: but yeah, I mean it's really terrible.

448
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 4: You know.

449
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 6: The lawyer for the Menendaz Brothers, Mark Gergos, was on

450
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 6: News Nation just now and he said this. He called

451
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 6: the decision rich and said that he will be talking

452
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 6: to California Governor Gavin Newsom and a Superior Court judge

453
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 6: in an attempt to get the ruling reversed.

454
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 3: What do you think about that, Robert, This story is

455
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 3: very much in motion. There are a lot different moving parts,

456
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: and so it's very challenging for me as journalists to

457
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 3: keep up with everything. I mean, I've literally been on

458
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 3: the phone. I'm looking at the o'clock. I've been on

459
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 3: the phone for about twelve hours today. Talking to sources

460
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 3: you know, in the legal community, talking to Mends and

461
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 3: Anderson family members, and it's just it's really challenged try

462
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 3: and keep up. There's so many different moving parts, but

463
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 3: we can't get around the elephant in the room. Eric

464
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 3: leilem Nan just killed their parents in August nineteen eighty nine,

465
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 3: and you can't get around that. You know, they are

466
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 3: not celebrity. They you know, should not be regarded in

467
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 3: that way by you know, there area supporters not only

468
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 3: in the US, but all over the world. In fact,

469
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 3: the majority of the other supporters live outside of the US.

470
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 3: But what many of the the reason that they are

471
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 3: so interested in the case is that they are sexual

472
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 3: abuse survivors. And so that's why this says. The story

473
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 3: has resonated with so many different communities. And what happened

474
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 3: was in June of twenty twenty, co TV posted the

475
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 3: entire first trial on their website. They posted the video

476
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 3: on Father's Day of June twenty twenty. And then in

477
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 3: the summer of twenty twenty, my son, who was fourteenth

478
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 3: time kidded me one afternoon and he said, Dad, you

479
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 3: got to look at TikTok. It's full of that brother's videos,

480
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 3: and my first reaction was just a laugh, and then

481
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 3: I went down the rabbit hole for three or four hours,

482
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 3: and then I was like blown away by what was

483
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 3: happening on social media, on Instagram and TikTok. So I

484
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 3: watched this for several months, and then I called a

485
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 3: friend of mine who was a senior editor at the

486
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 3: New York Times, and I said, you guys should do

487
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 3: a story about this. You know, this thing is growing.

488
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 3: And that was back in the fall of twenty twenty.

489
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 3: New York Times did a story about the new Menendez

490
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 3: defenders that was published in February of twenty one, and

491
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 3: then ABC twenty twenty to our special in April of

492
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, and so that's when this whole movement

493
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: really started growing. And what happened, as was explained to

494
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 3: me by somebody who really knows social media, there was

495
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 3: a huge community on TikTok of sexual abuse survivors. As

496
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 3: you guys know, there's also a huge community of people

497
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 3: that followed true crime, and so what happened in the

498
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 3: summer of twenty twenty was the abuse survivors and the

499
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 3: two grime people, you know, kind of got together and

500
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 3: they glombed down to this case and they decided. That's

501
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 3: how this case turned into a social media phenomenon, and

502
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 3: that's what's led to everything thing that's been going on

503
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 3: from then to right now August twenty five.

504
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, this case has had so many sort of legs

505
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 5: and iterations and different times and the zeitgeist that it

506
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 5: has come back. If anyone wants to join Robert Rand,

507
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 5: who has known the Menendez brothers since back to eighty nine.

508
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: You should give us a call.

509
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 5: We're at eighty eight to three to one crime and

510
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 5: we are talking about the fact that Eric and LYELEL

511
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 5: Menendez had their parole.

512
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 4: They were both.

513
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 5: Denied parole, Robert, So you mentioned obviously that so many

514
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 5: people have taken up the cause, but I wanted to

515
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 5: talk really quickly about the infractions. So obviously Eric and

516
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 5: Lyle were denied. Do you think that the infractions are

517
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 5: overplayed correctly played? I mean some of them sounded serious,

518
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 5: you know, a bunch of cell phone abuse and.

519
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 3: Well the the U there were new there was new

520
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 3: information that I learned on Thursday and Friday at the

521
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,959
Speaker 3: Pearl hearings. The brothers prison records were actually confidential up

522
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 3: until the parole hearings, and then we heard about various

523
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 3: infractions that Eric Brenandas had over the years, including supphone

524
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 3: usage and drug usage that he was allegedly involved in.

525
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 3: And then Eric Menande's on Thursday was only questioned. I'm sorry,

526
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 3: Eric Menande's on Thursday was questioned for I think over

527
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 3: an hour. A family member told me about the crime,

528
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 3: about the killing of Jose and Cannendas with Lyle Mendus.

529
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 3: There were two different commissioners each day. In fact, I

530
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 3: just want to go back and say the clip that

531
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 3: you guys played was actually one of the leaked audio

532
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 3: clips from Eric Menandas's parole hearing Thursday. It was not

533
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 3: from the originalt trials in the nineties, and that was

534
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 3: the clip in which Commissioner Barton from the California par

535
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 3: Award was questioning Eric Menandez about the crime and about

536
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 3: the killing of Kiddy Mnuda. So now we'll go back

537
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 3: to Wild Menendas and his parole hearing on Friday. Last Friday,

538
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 3: he was only questioned for about twenty minutes about the crime.

539
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 3: But I was told by family members that basically he

540
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 3: was getting pounded with questions by the two parole commissioners,

541
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 3: different commissioners each day Thursday and Friday, and they were

542
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 3: spent like over an hour pounding him about his cellphoned

543
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 3: using yeah, you know what happened here was that George Gascone,

544
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 3: the former dav Valle County announced the rescending initiative at

545
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 3: the end of October twenty twenty four, you know, saying

546
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 3: that he wanted to have the Mz Brothers considered for rescensing.

547
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 3: And then on election day in November, George Gascone was

548
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 3: voted out of office and replaced by Nathan Hockman. So

549
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 3: then sometime in November, both the heirs and Lyle Menendus

550
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 3: were accused of using cell phones and they were that

551
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 3: was a violation the prison rules. And I understand people

552
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: might not understand why cell phone usage is such a

553
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: serious issue in prison. And here's why. If you have

554
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 3: a burner cell phone, you might not say the Menz Brothers.

555
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,959
Speaker 3: I don't believe ever did this, But there are people

556
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 3: that have ordered gang hits on the bought from prison.

557
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,719
Speaker 3: They have bought drugs in prison. Not Eric. I'm just

558
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 3: speaking in judgment generally, sure, And so that's why this

559
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 3: is the big issue. Also, one of the brothers testified

560
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 3: that he paid one thousand dollars to buy a cell

561
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,439
Speaker 3: phone in prison. So where do you think those cell

562
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 3: phones are coming from? How are they getting smuggled in

563
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 3: the prison? And of course I have the answer, it's guards.

564
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 3: So there's you know, that's a whole other issue. If

565
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 3: the guards are corrupt and the guards are selling cell

566
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 3: phones to the inmates, that's a problem.

567
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, because like the issue is that cell phones a

568
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 6: burner is not being recorded and monitored by prison staff,

569
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 6: and you know, so they can get away with things

570
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,959
Speaker 6: that they normally would not be able to get away

571
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 6: with when their phones are being recorded, right. And I

572
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 6: think it was Lyle that said too, or maybe Eric

573
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 6: that said that, you know, he has privacy concerns with

574
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 6: the high profileness that he's got to like that there

575
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 6: were some privacy he concerns with the cell phones something

576
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 6: like that.

577
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 3: Sure, well, well, liveman testify that the.

578
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 5: Reason Robert I am so you know, this is a cliffhanger,

579
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 5: and I so apologized. Body couldn't stop herself. Asked a

580
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 5: question that we will ask you to answer, and we

581
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 5: actually have a caller for you, Robert.

582
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 4: This is Mike.

583
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 3: Okay, Hi, Mike, Hey, how you doing good? How are

584
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 3: you hey, Mike, Hey pretty good?

585
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

586
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,959
Speaker 7: Hey. So for me, I just think the the justice

587
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 7: system was messed up back and back in those days.

588
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 7: For example, like even just sexual abuse to me, especially

589
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 7: my parents, wasn't you know, some jurors talked about openly

590
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 7: or probably fully understood, and they testified about being a

591
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 7: left and everything, but it didn't protect them. And then

592
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,720
Speaker 7: I just think prioritizing trauma wasn't or mental health wasn't

593
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 7: kind of flew in the nineties the child abuse as

594
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 7: possible justification for violent actions, and I don't think they

595
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 7: also understood battle child your own quotes than you know

596
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 7: what I mean.

597
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, you're Mike, Mike, thank you for the call.

598
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 6: You're one hundred percent right. You know, time evolves and

599
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 6: things change and we learn and you know, and so

600
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 6: now with the lens of history, we can see, you know,

601
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 6: maybe why the men and the brothers acted the way

602
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 6: they did, right, especially for young boys. I mean, I

603
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 6: think our caller is so correct. You know, sexual abuse again,

604
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 6: the shame that comes with that, the courage to speak

605
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 6: out let alone against her parents, and I think especially

606
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 6: for men.

607
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: You know, listen, go back in time too, thirty six

608
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 2: years or so, there really wasn't a language for this.

609
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 2: So at the bare minimum, it's really important for us

610
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: to be talking about it because look, this is sensitive stuff.

611
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 2: There's no question, it's very layered. But again, this is

612
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 2: abuse of hideous kind. And you know, many are experiencing

613
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 2: this and hopefully they will make the appropriate changes or

614
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: speak up because of cases like this.

615
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 3: And I would like to thank my first call. You know,

616
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 3: society has evolved over the last thirty years, and so

617
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 3: now today we are fortunate that people are talking about

618
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 3: these issues. They are sharing stories of men, young men,

619
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 3: boys being as I sayed, in their families. And back

620
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 3: when the brothers were on trial in the early nineties,

621
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 3: people never talked about these issues. It was so shameful

622
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 3: that it was really a hidden secret.

623
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 2: And that's why this conversations so important, right, because people

624
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 2: need to know that it's okay to talk about this,

625
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 2: and it's okay to come forward, and what's happening to

626
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 2: you is not your fault, right, we need not conversation

627
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 2: it's not okay. Yeah. More importantly, it is not your

628
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: fault and it is not okay you know, these were

629
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 2: young boys. And again, you know, Lyle was twenty one

630
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: years old. Eric at the time was eighteen years old.

631
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 2: Even the male frontal lobes are not even developed until

632
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: what twenty five, twenty seven years old, sometimes even thirty. Again,

633
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: I'm not making excuses. I know it's controversial, but my

634
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: heart kind of does break. I hear those audio tapes

635
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 2: about the vulnerability of being, you know, at the hands

636
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 2: of dad, knowing that mom is not stepping in. It's tough.

637
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, let's get in the hot tub time machine

638
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,919
Speaker 3: and go back to the nineties. Eric and Latmnandez were

639
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 3: made fun of on Saturday Night Live Jay Leno with

640
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 3: the Tonight Show. You know, they were the butt of

641
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,399
Speaker 3: a bunch of jokes. And now when you see those

642
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 3: sketches for Messinel or you see some of the Jay

643
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 3: Leno sketches, they haven't aged very well.

644
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: No, they have really not.

645
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 5: Robert, thank you so much for allowing us to keep

646
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 5: her here, for sharing your expertise. Anyone who wants to

647
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 5: read more of Robert's work should read his book, The

648
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 5: Menendez Murderers Updates Edition, The shocking, untold story of the

649
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 5: Menendez family and the killings that stunned the nation, or

650
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 5: watch his documentary Menendez and Menudo Boys Betrayed. Stick with

651
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 5: us True Crime Tonight. We're going to be talking about

652
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:15,959
Speaker 5: coburger and more.

653
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: Thank you, Robert. Listen. We've been talking a lot about

654
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,959
Speaker 2: the Menendez brothers and their parole denial, both of them.

655
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 2: If you've missed any of the first hour, no Stress,

656
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 2: you just can catch it right after the show as

657
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 2: a podcast. And again we want to hear from you

658
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 2: eight eight eight three one crime. So jump in join

659
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 2: the combo anytime. You can leave us a talkback on

660
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app. You could also just leave us a message,

661
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 2: or you could hit us up in our socials at

662
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight's show on Instagram and TikTok, or at

663
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight on faceboo book. So listen, this Gilaine

664
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,919
Speaker 2: Maxwell mess is a little bit crazy making. So there's

665
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,959
Speaker 2: a lot of things coming to the surface right now.

666
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 2: Three hundred pages of transcripts have been released, as well

667
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 2: as some audio of Gilaine Maxwell's most recent July twenty

668
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: twenty five interview that essentially says that there really was

669
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:27,240
Speaker 2: no list. There is no client list. Also, she said

670
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 2: that any of her paraphrasing right now, but that basically

671
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 2: any of her interactions with President Trump were you know,

672
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 2: nothing but lovely, and that Clinton, for example, who President

673
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 2: Trump had said, had been to the island many many times.

674
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 2: She claims that's likely not the case, and that you know,

675
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 2: everybody was pretty chummy and fine and there was really

676
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 2: no crime at all. So she was essentially convicted for

677
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 2: sex crimes that, according to her, now never happened. It

678
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: was also interesting now again she is saying this in

679
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 2: July twenty twenty five. Again, last month, we all remember

680
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 2: she was giving an interview basically on the heels of

681
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 2: everybody wanting this client list that had been promised us.

682
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 2: We all want the files, we want to hear about

683
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 2: her grand jury testimony, and at every corner it's a no.

684
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 2: It's a no, it's a no, which has just made

685
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 2: us all feel a bit gas lit on all sides.

686
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,959
Speaker 2: Whether you're a Democratic, Conservative, a Republican, like, it doesn't

687
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: matter where you sit in this. We're all kind of

688
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:42,479
Speaker 2: really angry at the idea that sexual abuse amongst young

689
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,720
Speaker 2: girls or women is I think we could all agree

690
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 2: not okay. Clinton was being dragged into it, and look

691
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 2: all of it may be accurate, but according to Gilain Maxwell,

692
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: there is nothing to see here, which again she's looking

693
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 2: to get a pardon. And I guess that's where I

694
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 2: get a little bit confused. And I'd love to hear

695
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 2: from you guys what you think, because you're basically looking

696
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 2: to get out of prison, and anything you say canon

697
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 2: will be used against you. So of course she's gonna say, yeah,

698
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 2: there was nothing wrong. By the way, victims weren't being reinterviewed,

699
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 2: just her, and it must have worked because suddenly she

700
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 2: has been moved to a low security prison. And although

701
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 2: she has not been pardoned, nor has her status been changed,

702
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 2: meaning the charges that she was convicted of still remain,

703
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 2: yet she remains in a much cushier situation. So is

704
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 2: Trump going to pardon her? We do not know. But

705
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 2: essentially this was a message out to the person who

706
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 2: could pardon her, where she's saying, lovely, nothing to see.

707
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 2: So that's a little infuriating, and I'm not totally sure

708
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 2: why it infuriates me so much, but for some reason

709
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 2: it does. And then also we're hearing reports that the

710
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: most vocal centerpiece victim, you know, you'll remember her from

711
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 2: the documentary Filthy Rich. We had the director of Filthy

712
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 2: Rich on with us on this show as well, Virginia Gouffrey.

713
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 2: She took her home life back in April. Again, what

714
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 2: about timing on that one. She's not even here to

715
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 2: discuss any of this. However, she apparently wrote a memoir

716
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 2: that is going to be released in October October twenty first. Oh,

717
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 2: and everybody's leaning in. What is she's going to say?

718
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 2: And listen, so many of the victims who put their

719
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 2: lives on the line by coming forward in such a

720
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 2: high profile case. So many have come forward and now

721
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 2: are not only in the news talking about how disappointed

722
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 2: and disgusted they are, how nervous they feel for their

723
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 2: own safety. But what a slap in the face ultimately, right, So,

724
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 2: the woman who was apparently luring young girls to this

725
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 2: island alone alongside Jeffrey Epstein is basically just getting a

726
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 2: cake walk of a deal, which is unheard of. There's

727
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 2: so many people behind bars who would actually like a

728
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 2: version of justice or to have their cases be relooked at.

729
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 2: But suddenly she's getting a little bit of a half

730
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 2: free pass. I suppose what does that even mean? And

731
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 2: what do we do with this information at this point.

732
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: And also she did say something else slightly interesting that

733
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 2: Joseph mentioned on Sunday. She believes that Epstein was killed,

734
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 2: that it wasn't in fact a suicide. So A, how

735
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 2: does she know that? B why are we listening to

736
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 2: her in the first place. I know this is a

737
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: person that's been convicted federally for sex abuse charges, and

738
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 2: why are we taking her at face value? And again,

739
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: I'm real pro woman, you all know this, but this

740
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: one's got under my skin. But she also yes, she did.

741
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 5: Gillian Maxwell did say that it was not suicide. He

742
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 5: was killed, but she also thinks or said that she

743
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 5: thinks it was some like prisoner on prisoner thing. She

744
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 5: said that if powerful individuals wanted Epstein dead, they could

745
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 5: have done it before he was jailed. And she called

746
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 5: these murder theories by you know, government or heads of

747
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 5: state or who be it. She called them ludicrous, which

748
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 5: also serves the person who she is now hoping for

749
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 5: a pardon from, because she washes away what people are

750
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 5: thinking that it was conspiratal.

751
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 2: And let's just go down the rabbit hole on this

752
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 2: for one second. So the person who can pardon her Trump,

753
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 2: who may have nothing to do with this, but he's

754
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: the one that can pardon her, right, so he sends

755
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 2: his person to go do an interview with her. So

756
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 2: again we're a little inside the combo. This is no

757
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 2: longer unbiased, right. We also know Pam Bondi said that

758
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: he in fact was mentioned in the said documents that

759
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,479
Speaker 2: don't actually exist, like it doesn't matter on her sense.

760
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 2: They were on her desk. We saw the binders, you know, allegedly, allegedly,

761
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 2: allegedly there were all of these cameras throughout this island.

762
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 2: There was this this the flight log that whether it

763
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: was Clinton and please everybody cannot come after me. But

764
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 2: still these were really prominent names, world leaders, people that

765
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 2: were making decisions that affect every single one of us,

766
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 2: you know, whether they're princes or sheikhs or you know,

767
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 2: technology experts, and the biggest way, it's pretty gross. And

768
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 2: Virginia Guffrey, who is the one who has now taken

769
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 2: her life, who can't speak for herself. She was sixteen

770
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 2: years old working at mar Lago. And President Trump just

771
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 2: recently came out a while on Air Force One basically

772
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 2: saying that he lost ties with Epstein because he basically

773
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 2: stole her from mar A Lago, this young girl, sixteen

774
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 2: years old. She wasn't an underaged woman. She was a girl,

775
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 2: and she got taken to work as a massuse or

776
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 2: something at some spa for Epstein, and that's severed their relationships.

777
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 2: So we're not talking about you know, adult women, and

778
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 2: even if we were, it still would not be okay.

779
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: Imagine being thrown to an island, flown there by a woman,

780
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:16,879
Speaker 2: Elaine Maxwell, they take your passport. You're now stuck there

781
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 2: and you're surrounded by lascivius men with money and power.

782
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 2: What do you do in that situation? You finally get

783
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 2: the courage to come out and speak up. And now

784
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 2: this it just feels gross. Yeah, you said it best.

785
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 2: I mean it definitely feels gross.

786
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 6: I mean even if she was of age, right, she's

787
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 6: still gonna feel kind of like intimidated and like, of course,

788
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 6: you know.

789
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 2: What an optionless you're basically being locked youay there passport.

790
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 6: Have you guys ever been in a country where you

791
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,800
Speaker 6: don't have your passport? I have where you can't do anything,

792
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 6: you can't do You were literally stuck in your room,

793
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 6: you can't go anywhere.

794
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 2: It's scary. It's not a good thing.

795
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 5: We'll be very interested to read Goofrey's book, as you said,

796
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 5: it comes out October twenty first. It's called Nobody's Girl,

797
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 5: And interestingly so she co wrote this memoir over the

798
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 5: course of four years with journalist Amy Wallace. It was

799
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 5: completed before her suicide, obviously, as it will be published,

800
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 5: but the suicide happened in April, and on April first,

801
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 5: in an email, Goufrey said she had heartfelt wishes for

802
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 5: the book to be released even in the event of

803
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 5: her death. Ooh, and she called the story essential for

804
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 5: justice and awareness, but good grief.

805
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 4: The timing on that is hard to look away from.

806
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 2: And there's been several suicides around this case, and not

807
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 2: even several many suicides around this case. And look, we

808
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: do know that she had had a troubled life. Virginia

809
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 2: was the mother of three children at the time of

810
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 2: her death. They were nineteen, sixteen, and fifteen. Imagine what

811
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 2: they're going through. So our hearts go out. She married

812
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 2: an Australian like a martial artist or something, and you know,

813
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 2: they had a very tumultuous relationship, we're told, and there

814
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 2: was some sort of incident and suddenly he got primary

815
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 2: custody of these three sons, and again these were you know,

816
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 2: maybe some really dark times and maybe her death has

817
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 2: nothing to do with any of this Epstein, Geleene Maxwell craziness,

818
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 2: but it just seems like the timing.

819
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 6: Is just you know, it's hard to wrap your brain around. Well,

820
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 6: we're going to keep following this. Obviously, it's very sussed

821
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:33,720
Speaker 6: us and it's definitely on our radar. And you're listening

822
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 6: to Tugraham tonight where we talk true crime all the time.

823
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 6: I'm Boddy Moved and I'm here with Stephanie Leidecker and

824
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 6: Courtney Armstrong and we're talking about today's top true crime headlines.

825
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 6: If you want to weigh in with your thoughts, give

826
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 6: us a call at eighty eight thirty one Crime or

827
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 6: we love the talkback. Send us a talk back on

828
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 6: the iHeartRadio app. So, I have a pretty big Travis

829
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 6: Decker update if you all do tell about this.

830
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 2: So, there was a press loom. There was a press

831
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: conference today at two o'clock.

832
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 6: The FBI now is basically in charge of the search

833
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 6: for Travis Decker. They have closed a Washington campground and

834
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,919
Speaker 6: it's intensifying the manhunt for Travis Decker, who, by the way,

835
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 6: if you have aren't familiar, he is alleged alleged to

836
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 6: have murdered his three young daughters during a court appointed visit.

837
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 6: Travis Decker, he's thirty two, he's a fugitive. He's former military.

838
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 6: He's been on the run since June. He murdered his

839
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,919
Speaker 6: three young daughters, Peyton who is nine, Evelyn who is eight,

840
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 6: and Olivia who's two, and their bodies were found in

841
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 6: a remote Washington campground. The FBI, in multiple agencies have

842
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 6: resumed an intensive search near the crime scene. You guys,

843
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 6: So they've gone back to ground zero, Okay, which is

844
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 6: really this is why it's a big update to me.

845
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 4: It's interesting, right, very interesting.

846
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,760
Speaker 6: Does it tell us something? Does it tell us something

847
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 6: about the investigation? And I think it does. I think

848
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 6: it tells us that he's dead number one, because what

849
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 6: they've said is that they're going to be doing a

850
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 6: grid search in the area of the crime scene. Okay,

851
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 6: And this is what they said. The areas being searched

852
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 6: are extremely challenging, with steep hillsides, dense brush, minimal cell service,

853
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 6: and unprecedented conditions. Over the past three months, investigative teams

854
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 6: led by your Sheriff's Office Investigative Unit have pursued every

855
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 6: lead and search vast remote areas in the hopes of

856
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 6: locating Travis Decker or any evidence that might bring us

857
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 6: closer to answers. This has been painstaking and difficult, and

858
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 6: I want to personally commend all involved for their dedication.

859
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 6: And he went on to say, you know what, I'm

860
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 6: wearing this uniform now, but the guy that's going to

861
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 6: be wearing it next, and the guy after him, and

862
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 6: the guy after him, and the guy after him, We're

863
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 6: never going to stop looking for him.

864
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 2: But I mean his dangerous too, by the way, so dangerous,

865
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 2: very dangerous. So here's what it tells me, though, why

866
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 2: would they would like would they tell Travis Decker this

867
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 2: is where we're looking if he wasn't dead. Do they

868
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 2: think he's dead? You know what I mean?

869
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 6: And are they searching this grid for closed maybe where

870
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 6: he's at He's well.

871
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 2: He's either dead and in that area, or he's gone

872
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 2: and in Canada, as his plan would suggest that they're

873
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 2: about to happen.

874
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 6: They're not looking like near the border. I'm sure the boat,

875
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 6: I'm sure Canada is for sure. But as far as

876
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 6: I know, they're not looking him near the border. I

877
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 6: don't think they think he's there. They're refocusing all their

878
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 6: efforts back at the crime scene.

879
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 2: Wow.

880
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 6: And there's the FBI has one hundred personnel out there

881
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 6: looking for him.

882
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie here

883
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 2: with Courtney and Body and we have, uh, the greatest

884
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 2: of greats our junior producer who's been working with us

885
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,879
Speaker 2: for the summer. Riley Whitson is here. We also call

886
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 2: her my Riley. That's just so we all hear it

887
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 2: loud and clear. She is a star. You may recognize

888
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 2: her view beautiful voice from the podcast Murder one oh one,

889
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 2: also on iHeart. If you haven't heard it, please check

890
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 2: it out. It's so good and it basically centers around

891
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 2: this incredible teacher, Alex Campbell and his extraordinary class of

892
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 2: young adults Riley being at the Helm, who essentially start

893
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 2: digging down the rabbit hole of cold cases back in

894
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties, and they are so crazy actionable. They

895
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 2: literally solve Jane Do murders, and they create a profile

896
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 2: for this what could be a serial killer, and that's

897
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 2: all sort of what the podcast is about. So, Riley

898
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 2: is a detective at heart and also a producer at heart,

899
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,879
Speaker 2: and we love her family, We love her, and she's

900
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 2: going to be now our on the beat Teen Detective,

901
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 2: if you will. So, you know, we've been following this

902
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 2: case about Sarah Grace Patrick for a while. She's been

903
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,919
Speaker 2: accused of murdering her mother and her stepfather. She's very

904
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 2: young and although very grisly and gruesome. Riley has been

905
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 2: following this closely, and we'll continue to follow cases that are,

906
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 2: you know, a little younger, so we're getting that you know, demographic.

907
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 2: So right, welcome to your show. Welcome Riley. She works

908
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 2: on it every day, so we love having her. Finally

909
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 2: we can hear your voice.

910
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 8: Thank you guys for having me. I'm honored to be here.

911
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 2: We're excited to have you. So tell us what's going

912
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:25,800
Speaker 2: on with Sarah Grace Patrick.

913
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 8: Yeah, So on August nineteenth, Sarah Grace Patrick, she's seventeen

914
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 8: year old from Georgia. She was denied bond by the

915
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:38,439
Speaker 8: judge after she was charged in connection with her mother

916
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 8: and stepfather's murders. So her mother, Kristen Brock, and her stepfather,

917
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 8: James Brock. They were found shot to death in February

918
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 8: of this year inside their home in Georgia, and Patrick,

919
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 8: who actually reportedly contacted true crime influencers across talk and

920
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 8: social media. She was arrested after she confessed to the

921
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,240
Speaker 8: murders and the morning of her six year old sister

922
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 8: was the one who sadly discovered their bodies and then

923
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 8: Sarah Grace called nine one one, right.

924
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 6: So let's let's just unpack that very quickly. So she

925
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 6: killed her mother and father right or her stepfather right then,

926
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 6: like knowing her little sister was going to find the

927
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 6: bodies and then call nine one one. But then in

928
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 6: the meet, you know, after started contacting influencers to crime

929
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 6: people on TikTok to cover the case, right.

930
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 2: Well, she was crying and sort of reaching out. And again,

931
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,399
Speaker 2: this is sort of interesting timing that Riley has right

932
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 2: now on the heels of this menendez you know race.

933
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 2: So obviously they were young men who murdered their parents.

934
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 2: By the way, it's pretty rare. The statistics on this

935
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 2: is not you know, this is not a regular thing,

936
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:57,359
Speaker 2: and you know, again it's horrible beyond measure. I would

937
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 2: have to assume that there's more to this story that

938
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,479
Speaker 2: will be on and will be discovering. We just don't

939
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 2: know yet or has there been any more info right

940
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 2: about the why in.

941
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 8: This They have not been able to come up with

942
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 8: a motive. But we do know that most adolescent they

943
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 8: call them patrick or parricide offenders, So these are people

944
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 8: who who.

945
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 2: Have murdered their own parents.

946
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:27,359
Speaker 8: These young adolescent offenders, they are typically out of desperation

947
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:30,319
Speaker 8: or a need to assert some sort of autonomy. So

948
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 8: we can look at possible signs of abuse. I mean,

949
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 8: we saw that with Menindez brothers and even with Gypsy

950
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 8: Rose Blanchard. I know that we've talked about before, So

951
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 8: I'm interested to see if the defense is going to

952
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 8: take that route and possibly try to unveil some previous abuse.

953
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 6: Yeah, because we haven't heard anything from her right, Like,

954
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 6: she hasn't said anything. She's basically remained silent.

955
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 2: So we know her biological father did stand by her

956
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 2: right So I believe her biological father, who ultimate I

957
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 2: think took her to the police and helped turn her hand,

958
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:07,280
Speaker 2: and he drove her to turn herself in. And imagine

959
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 2: that's a tough spot too. You have your seventeen year

960
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 2: old daughter. She had a big life ahead of her.

961
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 2: If you look at photographs, she looks happy and healthy

962
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 2: and beautiful. Beyond words, How could this happen? What would

963
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: pause a person to do this? Was she protecting her

964
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,959
Speaker 2: six year old sister? Was she just you know, caught

965
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 2: up and you know, having a bad day. We have

966
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 2: no idea, but there has to be more to it.

967
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 2: And again, we are not justifying this behavior, but we

968
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 2: will be following closely, I assume.

969
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 8: Right, Riley, Oh for sure. And interestingly enough, most females

970
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 8: who commit parricide they're typically taking a hands off approach,

971
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 8: so whether that be through poison, they don't directly commit

972
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 8: the murders themselves. So I find it really interesting and

973
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 8: odd that both parents were their causes of death were

974
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 8: gunshot winds By.

975
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 5: That is a phenomenally interesting I also in I guess

976
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 5: that the prosecution argued that she was potentially a flight

977
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 5: risk when this was when they were talking about trying

978
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 5: to get her to stay at home and be on

979
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 5: house arrest. And this is a horrible thought that she

980
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 5: could potentially intimidate witnesses, particularly her younger sister.

981
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that, poor that poor girl. That's I'm sure

982
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 2: all of it. There's there's no happy ending here, right,

983
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,439
Speaker 2: you know, to your point, Riley, parricides account for two

984
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 2: percent of all homicides in the US, meaning five parents

985
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 2: are killed by their biological children every week, So two

986
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 2: percent when people how many people are dying? But yeah,

987
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 2: two percent, that's actually seems low, but five per week

988
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 2: seems high. So I'm not even sure what to do

989
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 2: with that math. But it's real guttural and primal, and

990
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 2: it's scary stuff. You know. It doesn't appear that there

991
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 2: were drugs involved or that she was you know, meth

992
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 2: fueled or anything like that. But again, we don't really

993
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 2: know all the details quite.

994
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 8: Yet, right, And I don't even know how to feel,

995
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 8: particularly with how she reached out after the fact to

996
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 8: these TikTok influencers asking them to look into the case

997
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 8: and really displaying her emotion and really vivid in desperate ways.

998
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 8: I don't really know how to feel, honestly.

999
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was almost I felt like, looking back on it,

1000
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 6: it looks like kind of performative a little bit, and

1001
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 6: what she said like she was telling people that they

1002
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 6: thought it would bring a lot of views and be

1003
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 6: a big hit, right, is that right?

1004
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, Well, if you want to weigh in on this,

1005
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 5: we were talking about Sarah grayce Patrick. She's the seventeen

1006
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 5: year old she has been charged with her parents' murder,

1007
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 5: her mother and her stepfather. She's in court, and we're

1008
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 5: talking right now about how after the fact she went

1009
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 5: and reached out to TikTok influencers.

1010
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 2: She had a really weird eulogy too, right, She had

1011
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 2: sort of I shouldn't say weird suddenly, I'm now now

1012
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 2: I'm flipping my script. Riley's talked me out of it already.

1013
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 2: You're nothing but trouble this Thereah, this kid's are I

1014
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 2: guess right? So you know two seconds my all of

1015
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 2: my compassion has now gone out the window. But she

1016
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 2: did have a she gave a eulogy about her mom,

1017
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 2: especially right, and she was really emotional and kind of

1018
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 2: carrying on, and it feels it felt again to somewhat

1019
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 2: impressionable like me. It felt very legitimate. But she also

1020
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 2: could have also been missing her mom, even though she

1021
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 2: was the reason. And again, there's no reason for murder.

1022
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 2: We're not trying to justify it by any means, but

1023
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:45,479
Speaker 2: you know, Riley is such a young person I can't

1024
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 2: even imagine, like where this is very rare, thankfully, but yeah,

1025
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 2: you were saying you're not sure how to feel about it.

1026
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 2: What do you think is going to happen next.

1027
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 8: I'll be really interested to see her next court appearance.

1028
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 8: I know she was obviously denied bond because the judge

1029
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 8: said she could be a flight risk and intimidation to witnesses.

1030
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 8: I know that she had some very distressing phone calls

1031
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 8: to her maternal grandfather while she was in prison, kind

1032
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 8: of pleading her innocence, and he testified on her behalf

1033
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 8: in the hearing.

1034
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 2: I'm curious on.

1035
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 8: Whether or not she'll have access to social media inside

1036
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 8: of prison, because we've unfortunately seen that in other cases.

1037
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 2: I don't know if.

1038
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 8: She'll be able to reach out to family members to

1039
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 8: get people on her side or make further posts. But

1040
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 8: I was kind of surprised by the grace she was

1041
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 8: given in court, especially with the recent happenings with the

1042
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 8: Menendez brothers, as a female offender and as a young offender. Now,

1043
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 8: if the judge would have been a male, I think

1044
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 8: the story could have been different. But the female judge,

1045
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 8: I think she put her foot down and was very

1046
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 8: stern with her, which I think was a good thing

1047
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 8: in this situation. So I'm not really sure what's going

1048
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:02,480
Speaker 8: to happen. Very interested to see, though, and I will

1049
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 8: definitely keep us in the loop.

1050
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 2: You better, Yeah, well, I think I think too.

1051
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 6: It's going to have a lot to do with what

1052
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 6: kind of evidence they have against her as well, and

1053
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 6: we don't really know what that is. But we do

1054
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 6: know that the authorities have said that her digital footprint

1055
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 6: basically led to rest, but they haven't given us any

1056
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 6: information on what that is, right, Like.

1057
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe she just wanted the attention if she was

1058
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 2: going to social media and was like kind of like

1059
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 2: like the opposite, the reverse of Munchausen's it's like Munchausen

1060
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 2: child abuse. I don't know, you know, who knows. But again,

1061
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 2: for your beloved sister, to Courtney's point, to be the

1062
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 2: one who has to identify a mom and stepdad, you know,

1063
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 2: that's hard to come back from. So she will have

1064
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 2: a lot of explaining to do. It appears she's being

1065
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 2: tried as an adult, I believe, right, So yeah, there's

1066
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 2: you know, she's up against it, that's for sure, And

1067
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll be following this very closely, and Riley's

1068
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 2: basically has identified multiple cases, including her great work on

1069
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 2: murder one oh one. I can't wait for more of

1070
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 2: that to come. But you know, we're just trying to

1071
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 2: make sure we're keeping the beat alive. And you know,

1072
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 2: Riley's kept us all in a tight leash all summer.

1073
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 2: She's been working with us for the summer. And listen,

1074
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 2: Riley knows what's doing. And you know, by the time

1075
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 2: we're talking, Riley already has the answer. She's already done

1076
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 2: the research. She's already sending it here and there and everywhere.

1077
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 2: So we're all in very good hands. And yes, college awaits,

1078
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 2: and you know, the summer might be ending, but the

1079
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,959
Speaker 2: idea is that we will be having Riley back again

1080
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 2: and again and again.

1081
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 6: Yes, that would be great. I been talking to the

1082
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 6: younger version of myself.

1083
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, baby body, baby.

1084
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 9: Body, compliment I've ever gotten.

1085
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 2: Stop it. We're so lucky to have you. We love you,

1086
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 2: Ry and please give our love to your family and Tanana,

1087
01:03:53,840 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 2: and congrats on your first radio debut. Me.

1088
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 8: I'll definitely keep you guys posted on this case as it.

1089
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 2: Develops, of course, and we'll see tomorrow back in the

1090
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 2: studio Quick, do we know? Do we know when her

1091
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 2: next date is? Her next court date? Do we do

1092
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 2: we know yet? I think it's been set, but I

1093
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 2: don't think I believe it.

1094
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, her next arragnment day is set for September twenty second.

1095
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 2: September twenty second, round, So we'll add that to the calendar.

1096
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 5: That would be good, and we'll have if not earlier,

1097
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 5: we will have to have you back then, Riley for

1098
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 5: the update.

1099
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you so so much.

1100
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 2: Great job Yard. Yeah, she's here, we did it, she

1101
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 2: did it. Listen to Ley's a Star Mark. My words

1102
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 2: were like, Riley is going to have the most trail

1103
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 2: blazing future. So I think she's our next oprah yay,

1104
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 2: So more on this to come.

1105
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 5: Well, listen and anyone who's interested in Riley's amazing work

1106
01:04:57,160 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 5: canon should listen to her story on the K Studios

1107
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 5: podcast Murder one O one.

1108
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 2: It's incredible.

1109
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 4: It's incredible.

1110
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 5: I mean, the story is incredible, the storytelling is incredible.

1111
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 4: Go and listen and listen.

1112
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 5: Stick around because later we're going to be talking about

1113
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 5: this kind of bombshell thing that came out about a

1114
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 5: professor of Brian Colberger is in the Idaho murder case,

1115
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 5: Keep it here, True Crime Tonight?

1116
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 2: How great was Riley? Producer of greatness? They're young, she's

1117
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 2: only a teen or something. She has been like really

1118
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 2: doing true crime detective work since like middle school, and

1119
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 2: it's really in high school. I know, I know she's

1120
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 2: the real deal. So oh so proud. We should all

1121
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 2: be so proud of her. Tell me a lot of

1122
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 2: she's really great. I really really the world could use

1123
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 2: some smart chicks, right, and you know goodness, she is

1124
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 2: one of them. So listen. We have talkback Tuesday tomorrow,

1125
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 2: so we should be teasing this more. Oh my goodness,

1126
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 2: it's talk back to day tomorrow, and we need some talkbacks.

1127
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 2: Although we've been getting so many good ones, so we've

1128
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 2: been stacking them. And I know we've had some calls

1129
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 2: that we've missed because we've all been talking too much.

1130
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 2: So don't let that prevent you from trying again, though,

1131
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 2: eight eight eighty three one crime. Please leave us your messages,

1132
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 2: of course, leave us a talk back on the right.

1133
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app. In fact, we have one right now.

1134
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 10: Hi, ladies, It's Hayley calling from Austraya. I love listening

1135
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 10: to your show. Always listen to it when I'm walking

1136
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 10: in the morning. I really think Baka was ill, was

1137
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 10: and is a major manipulator. And that's how I manipulated

1138
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:50,360
Speaker 10: his parents. He's the reason why they tried to find

1139
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:52,479
Speaker 10: friends for him.

1140
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 3: That's all.

1141
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 10: I just wanted to say, thank you.

1142
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think she's so right. Unfortunately, I just think

1143
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 2: he is a master manipulator. I think I know mother

1144
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 2: and his father just hook line and sinker. Yeah.

1145
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 6: Well, there's somebody else that has an opinion about Brian Coberger,

1146
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 6: and that is his former professor at WSU. So the

1147
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 6: New York Post. I talked about this a little bit yesterday,

1148
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 6: but I didn't get to really talk about it too much,

1149
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 6: not as much as I wanted to. Let me just

1150
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 6: say that again, I could do a whole show about

1151
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 6: Brian Coberger over and over and over again. While The

1152
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 6: New York Post published an exclusive interview with a retired

1153
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 6: public defender turned professor who discovered his aggravating teaching assistant

1154
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 6: was mass murderer Brian Coberger. For those that don't know,

1155
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 6: in November of twenty twenty two, four Beautiful Angel University

1156
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 6: of Idaho students were brutally murdered and six weeks later,

1157
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 6: Brian Coberger, who was a criminology graduate student at WSU University,

1158
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:54,920
Speaker 6: was arrested in charge with those murders, which was like

1159
01:07:54,960 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 6: a pretty shocking revelation to his professor, who is John Snyder.

1160
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 6: Revised him during that semester. And here's some things his

1161
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 6: professor now, Brian Koberger, Brian Colberger.

1162
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:09,080
Speaker 2: Was his teaching assistant.

1163
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 6: Okay, and that's part of the curriculum at WSU, well

1164
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 6: at most colleges.

1165
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 2: So this is what he said.

1166
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 6: Brian quickly disabused me of the idea that I would

1167
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:20,640
Speaker 6: get a sufficient amount of work from him. Now you

1168
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 6: have to understand this. This professor is, he's a former

1169
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:30,240
Speaker 6: public defender. He teaches like law in terms of criminology program. Okay,

1170
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:34,599
Speaker 6: and Brian really just didn't see, I guess, any interest

1171
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 6: in learning from this guy. So he told he told

1172
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:40,640
Speaker 6: this John Snyder, You're you're likely not going to get

1173
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 6: a lot of work out of me.

1174
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:44,760
Speaker 2: The balls on the I mean, I was just going

1175
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 2: to say that, Asy says. So here's another one.

1176
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:55,040
Speaker 6: He would start talking about inane, stupid and immature things.

1177
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:57,760
Speaker 6: It was a technique where he felt like he was

1178
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 6: in control as long as he was wasting my time.

1179
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:05,720
Speaker 6: Now this is going to our talk back, right, A manaster, manipulator.

1180
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 6: As long as he felt like he was wasting this

1181
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 6: guy's time, Brian felt in control, which is very interesting.

1182
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 6: Another one my classes ta looks like a murderer. A

1183
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 6: female student made this eerie comment early in the semester,

1184
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 6: long before the murders even happened. So this, this, this

1185
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 6: classmate of his, was like, he looks like a murderer.

1186
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:30,559
Speaker 6: I thought that was interesting. Yeah, he rapidly developed the

1187
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 6: habit of coming in at the end of the day.

1188
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 6: I started calling it his terrier routine. So here's what

1189
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:39,760
Speaker 6: he says. What is that it's at the end of

1190
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:42,320
Speaker 6: the day. Well, you know how terriers, Yeah they yeah,

1191
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,920
Speaker 6: so yip Yeah I love a terrier. I know I

1192
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 6: did too, but not him, but yeah, not not Brian

1193
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 6: Coburger the terrier. So basically where he's saying, what Johnsonator

1194
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 6: is saying is that he would be in his office,

1195
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:56,679
Speaker 6: like packing up his briefcase, getting readily for the day,

1196
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 6: and Brian Coburger would walk in and like corner he

1197
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 6: and talk to him about this again a nane, stupid

1198
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 6: and immature stuff and then the professor would be like,

1199
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 6: I gotta go and start walking out, and Brian Coberger

1200
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:16,160
Speaker 6: would fall follow him down the hallway yippin' about this stuff,

1201
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:17,719
Speaker 6: and the guy's like he can't take a hint.

1202
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, this guy had no social awareness, nosoever,

1203
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 2: and then he says, this is a quote he was

1204
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:28,800
Speaker 2: a bit of a douche an exceptionally long semester. Is

1205
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:31,720
Speaker 2: this guy from Long Island? Yeah, I don't know, maybe

1206
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:34,559
Speaker 2: this professor seems like we grew up in the same town,

1207
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 2: but it's really telling, like it's very rare for a

1208
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 2: professor to speak.

1209
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 6: Out like this, right, so, and then another one he

1210
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 6: said was it was an assault on what I do.

1211
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:49,760
Speaker 6: John says, the reality of the crime isn't what bothers him.

1212
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 6: This is kind of weird. John said, the reality of

1213
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 6: the crime isn't really what bothered him. It is instead

1214
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 6: somebody studying criminology to become a better criminal instead of

1215
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 6: to pursue justice, and that really bothered him. Obviously, I'm

1216
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 6: sure the murder did too, you know, I'm sure this

1217
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:10,160
Speaker 6: is yes, contextualized and whatnot, but he was really offended

1218
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 6: at Brian Cobroger even being in the criminology program once

1219
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 6: the murderer whence he was arrested.

1220
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like going to the military just so you

1221
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:20,879
Speaker 2: can do treason, right, so you can rebel against your country.

1222
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 2: Like that's so disgusting. So yeah, similarly or using all

1223
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 2: of these skills that are being taught to you by

1224
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 2: extraordinary brains, right and using that for evil.

1225
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,880
Speaker 6: And then he said I actually considered him a whim.

1226
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love interesting. Right.

1227
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:41,720
Speaker 6: Oh, another thing very important, really quick as part of

1228
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:44,640
Speaker 6: the investigation, he went into the Moscow Police Department to

1229
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 6: talk to them about Brian Coberger because obviously he has

1230
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 6: some insight, and that the investigators told him that Brian

1231
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:54,599
Speaker 6: Coberger had a list of women, a list of women,

1232
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 6: and one of the women on this list was a

1233
01:11:57,479 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 6: fellow faculty member. We don't know who I'm gonna assume

1234
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 6: and take a massive stretch, and you think that it

1235
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:06,720
Speaker 6: might be somebody that he was kind of obsessed with.

1236
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 6: And we learned in these Idaho State Police reports that

1237
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 6: there was one particular person in one of these offices

1238
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 6: that Brian Coberger would literally come and stand in front

1239
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 6: of her desk and just stare at her like creepy creepy,

1240
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:23,719
Speaker 6: creepy stuff. He even would hover behind her and watch

1241
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 6: her while she worked. So I'm assuming maybe it's one

1242
01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:29,280
Speaker 6: it's her, or it could even be the professor that

1243
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:30,800
Speaker 6: he had a particular problem with.

1244
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 2: We know that one of the complaints. There's many complaints

1245
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 2: about him.

1246
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 6: I'm not actually cataloging all of them now, but one

1247
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 6: of them was an actual professor that he would constantly

1248
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 6: buck up against. And it could be her.

1249
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:43,680
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1250
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 6: But he was keeping a list of women, but they

1251
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:49,760
Speaker 6: but he didn't know what context this list was made.

1252
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:53,639
Speaker 5: I could not have been a good context. I don't

1253
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:57,280
Speaker 5: think it was. You know, no possible that that's the reality.

1254
01:12:57,680 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 2: Listen, this is.

1255
01:12:58,280 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 4: True crime tonight.

1256
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:03,680
Speaker 5: We are talking about some really interesting new perspectives on

1257
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 5: the murderer of the four students at the University of Idaho.

1258
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:13,760
Speaker 5: And yeah, just details are coming out about him. You

1259
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 5: want to join the conversation, give us a call. Eighty

1260
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 5: eight three to one Crime. My favorite thing that this

1261
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 5: professor said in the interview was.

1262
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 4: Obviously it was it was not an audio one, it

1263
01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:26,680
Speaker 4: was written.

1264
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 11: But.

1265
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:33,720
Speaker 5: His belief was that quote being both extremely irritating and

1266
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 5: physically weak, he won't survive to the end of his

1267
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 5: natural life in prison, Oh, but extremely irritating and physically weak.

1268
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:46,800
Speaker 2: Everybody finds him irritating. Literally, everybody finds him irritating. Even

1269
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 2: in prison right now, he's irritating. He's the guy. Even

1270
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 2: all of his cellmates in the last place he was at,

1271
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,719
Speaker 2: they were like, this guy is super annoying, forever pacing

1272
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:59,639
Speaker 2: talking to himself, like he is just that guy. Another

1273
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:03,000
Speaker 2: season you haven't, Yeah, he do. I'm sorry, mom, I'm

1274
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 2: sorry to all, but I feel like it applies, and it's.

1275
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 5: Okay, professor said at first and best, Yes, directly, so exactly.

1276
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 6: Another thing that we haven't really talked about is that,

1277
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 6: you know, I've been going through all those reports, right

1278
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:17,439
Speaker 6: these Idaho State Police reports that have been released, and

1279
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 6: those have been really insightful into Brian Coburger. The Moscow

1280
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 6: Police Department reports weren't as insightful, but these ones were

1281
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 6: pretty insightful. And one of the things that we've learned

1282
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 6: is that investigators kind of recreated the crime and they

1283
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:34,720
Speaker 6: they timed how things were going. You know, could he

1284
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:37,520
Speaker 6: have done this in the time and here's like a bombshell.

1285
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 6: Investigators determined that Coburger could have committed all four murders

1286
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 6: in as little as ninety seconds, with total time at

1287
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:48,599
Speaker 6: the scene estimated at thirteen minutes. So what they did

1288
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 6: this is going to trigger warning a little bit.

1289
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 2: You know.

1290
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 6: They they read the autopsy reports, they know exactly what

1291
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:59,800
Speaker 6: how many times each victim was was assaulted, how many

1292
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:00,879
Speaker 6: times they were stabbed.

1293
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:03,960
Speaker 2: And what they did was they.

1294
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:06,599
Speaker 6: Recreated the path he took in the house, like going

1295
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 6: up the stairs, going into Maddie's room, you know, and

1296
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 6: actually physically, you know, mimicking stabbing motions right to time it.

1297
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:20,040
Speaker 6: And they did that for all four victims, and they

1298
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:22,439
Speaker 6: came to the conclusion that he could have been in

1299
01:15:22,479 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 6: and out of there as little as ninety seconds. That's

1300
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 6: all it would have taken for him to commit this murder.

1301
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:31,560
Speaker 6: These murderers, I should say, Zana, I find that impossible.

1302
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:35,719
Speaker 2: I know it's I find it. No, I'm not saying

1303
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:38,920
Speaker 2: that they're wrong, I'm just no, I just find it shockingly.

1304
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 6: Well, he didn't, he didn't stay in their only ninety seconds.

1305
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 6: I mean, they're just saying it could have happened. He

1306
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 6: could have done all this in ninety seconds. Now, if

1307
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 6: you sit in a room and with nothing and you

1308
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:52,599
Speaker 6: just set a timer for ninety seconds.

1309
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 2: It actually is pretty long, like I know, but this

1310
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:58,799
Speaker 2: is actually very violent crime. We know the stab count

1311
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:02,759
Speaker 2: was to imagine all right, and we're on two different

1312
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 2: floors and there's a lot of physical exertion and you know,

1313
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:10,000
Speaker 2: this is it's not an easy task. Now, but Zama,

1314
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 2: here's the thing. Zamma fought back, right, we know this,

1315
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:18,759
Speaker 2: like hell she did. She bought back right, right? Superwoman? Yeah,

1316
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 2: like she's a rock star, like, oh, just the poor girl.

1317
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:22,240
Speaker 2: So she was.

1318
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:24,880
Speaker 6: She was the only victim awake during the attack, and

1319
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:28,600
Speaker 6: she did fight back, sustaining over fifty stab wounds and

1320
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:32,760
Speaker 6: defensive injuries. So that added significant amount of time to

1321
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 6: you know, this ninety second possibility.

1322
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 4: Right.

1323
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:38,920
Speaker 6: We know he was in the house for an estimated

1324
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 6: thirteen minutes, so you know, the big talking point through

1325
01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 6: all this is how could he have done this? Well,

1326
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:47,439
Speaker 6: the police recreated it and they're saying he was there

1327
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:52,439
Speaker 6: longer than he had to be. It's interesting, it's very interesting.

1328
01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:54,559
Speaker 6: So that's in one of those reports, and you know

1329
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:57,320
Speaker 6: it's just I don't know, I just found it interesting.

1330
01:16:57,400 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 2: I wanted to tell you guys, it is.

1331
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:01,919
Speaker 5: And another thing, because you're right, all of this information

1332
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 5: is sort of coming out in bits and pieces that

1333
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:08,639
Speaker 5: of course would have come out during trial. But one

1334
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 5: thing that I read and I don't recall where was

1335
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 5: that in Coberger's phone he had eighteen contacts. Yeah, that

1336
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:21,639
Speaker 5: is so small, it is. It kind of staggers the mind.

1337
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:26,799
Speaker 5: Eighteen including of course mother, other father, sisters, and then

1338
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:30,360
Speaker 5: one was running group girl.

1339
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:33,519
Speaker 6: And yeah like girl guy with hair or something like that.

1340
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:36,519
Speaker 6: Like just he didn't only be for me. For goodness,

1341
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:39,599
Speaker 6: The only really text messages he had were like group

1342
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:42,439
Speaker 6: chats were with fellow classmates and stuff.

1343
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 2: That's right, And I cannot believe this night is almost over.

1344
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 2: Remember Talkback Tuesday is tomorrow, So come on, you got

1345
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:52,080
Speaker 2: to start leaving those talkbacks. Leave us a message after

1346
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:55,120
Speaker 2: hours eight eight eight three one crime, or leave us

1347
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 2: a talkback, or you can always call us live and again.

1348
01:17:58,360 --> 01:18:00,880
Speaker 2: If you've missed any of the show, please don't be upset.

1349
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:03,280
Speaker 2: You could always catch it right after as a podcast

1350
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:06,679
Speaker 2: and catch on up, ladies. We have a talk back

1351
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:08,080
Speaker 2: right now. Oh okay?

1352
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:14,519
Speaker 11: An idea for the Group Watch documentary. I just started

1353
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:19,120
Speaker 11: the Mortician. It's on HBO Max. Okay, and it's about

1354
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 11: a man named David Scott who did some bad things.

1355
01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:26,400
Speaker 11: I guess a mortician. So just an idea.

1356
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,920
Speaker 2: Okay, that's a great idea. I feel it.

1357
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:33,800
Speaker 6: So I haven't watched it. True Crime and Chill. That's

1358
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:36,599
Speaker 6: the name of the program, right, True Crime and Chill.

1359
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:40,759
Speaker 6: That's on Wednesday, Right, And so you have homework everybody.

1360
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:44,120
Speaker 6: We're going we're watching Conversations with the Killer, the Son

1361
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:47,200
Speaker 6: of Sam tapes. There's three episodes. We're going to be

1362
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 6: discussing them, I believe Wednesday. So make sure you do

1363
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 6: your homework.

1364
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:52,320
Speaker 2: On the community.

1365
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:54,880
Speaker 6: It's on Netflix. This is a community project. It's three

1366
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:57,840
Speaker 6: hours of your day of you know. Just turn it

1367
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:01,000
Speaker 6: on the background and then call and tell us what

1368
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:02,720
Speaker 6: you think. We're all going to be talking about that

1369
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:04,599
Speaker 6: case on Wednesday. I'm excited.

1370
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:08,960
Speaker 2: I can't wait. This is the launch of the Lawns.

1371
01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:09,639
Speaker 3: I'm excited.

1372
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:14,000
Speaker 2: Goodness, I'm going to have to make goodness. We have

1373
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:17,520
Speaker 2: another talk talk back right now. It's talk back Mania,

1374
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 2: my ladies.

1375
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:22,760
Speaker 9: Is Ansley calling from Canada. I just must say I

1376
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:26,000
Speaker 9: love that all the rapport you three half together, as

1377
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:30,760
Speaker 9: well as your producers I'm wondering if you are all

1378
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:33,880
Speaker 9: friends outside of the show. I would love to hear

1379
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:37,120
Speaker 9: more about the dynamic because I think it works so well.

1380
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:42,200
Speaker 2: Oh good, that's the nicest of the summer, so that

1381
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:48,400
Speaker 2: someone could say, first, you know, I love them, Yeah,

1382
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 2: you know, yes, we are actual friends.

1383
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:54,320
Speaker 6: When my mom died, I got flowers from Katie Studios.

1384
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:56,080
Speaker 6: I mean, they really did care, and they really you

1385
01:19:56,120 --> 01:19:58,920
Speaker 6: know what I mean, like, yeah, we're friends outside the show,

1386
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:01,639
Speaker 6: like we don't go grocery shopping together or you know.

1387
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 2: Go get side because we really just stopped inside, you know.

1388
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:08,120
Speaker 6: But yeah, no, I I care about these women and

1389
01:20:08,280 --> 01:20:10,639
Speaker 6: obviously the producers and stuff too, and Sam and Adam

1390
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 6: and whatnot, and uh yeah we we we respect one

1391
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:15,640
Speaker 6: another and we do care about one another, right, Like

1392
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:18,680
Speaker 6: I think that's yeah, I think that's fair to say.

1393
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:22,400
Speaker 6: I got to school pictures today from Courtney. I loved them.

1394
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:25,559
Speaker 5: Well, and I sent them internally because Maudie schooled us

1395
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:30,599
Speaker 5: all and said, do not post pictures of any children. Yeah,

1396
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:32,720
Speaker 5: so any children in my life. I will not be

1397
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:33,559
Speaker 5: posting anything.

1398
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 3: But I was.

1399
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:36,360
Speaker 6: I got a text message today and it was great.

1400
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 6: So yeah, no, we are friends, but yeah, so listen

1401
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:43,000
Speaker 6: talk back Tuesday tomorrow. Get those talkbacks in. I love

1402
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:46,680
Speaker 6: a talkback. Okay, please please leave us a talkback. I

1403
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:49,200
Speaker 6: know Courtney and Stephanie really love the live calls.

1404
01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:51,720
Speaker 2: I love a talkback. I love them. I love the

1405
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:55,360
Speaker 2: d talk back too. I just like the excitingness of

1406
01:20:55,439 --> 01:20:59,840
Speaker 2: live also. But it makes me can't go wrong. I see.

1407
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:02,360
Speaker 5: I think it's almost because I do too. I get quivery,

1408
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:06,600
Speaker 5: like the call gonna drop. Not that our audio engineers

1409
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:08,840
Speaker 5: never drop a thing, but like it is.

1410
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:12,120
Speaker 2: It's like exciting. It is kind of exciting. That's true.

1411
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:14,599
Speaker 6: And then, of course, don't forget conversations with the Killer

1412
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:17,760
Speaker 6: the son of Sam's tapes for True Crime and chill

1413
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:19,560
Speaker 6: and listen even if you want to leave us a

1414
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 6: talk back.

1415
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:21,519
Speaker 2: Tell us your favorite snacks. What are you going to

1416
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 2: be making while you're watching the sun sating? Have you

1417
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:27,160
Speaker 2: guys tried the cottage cheese, no sour cream, little chips?

1418
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:29,640
Speaker 2: Have you guys not tried it yet? It sounds disgusting.

1419
01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:32,680
Speaker 2: It sounds disgusting. I promise you it's delicious. Do you

1420
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:36,559
Speaker 2: have no? No, no, it's the straight like the good

1421
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:39,360
Speaker 2: old cottage cheese that nobody likes. I don't like it either.

1422
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:43,759
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to the Cottage Cheese Factory. But regardless, nobody

1423
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:46,640
Speaker 2: likes it. But it is a good source of protein.

1424
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:49,120
Speaker 2: I'm told in the little rice cakes that you see

1425
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:52,479
Speaker 2: in the grocery store that have sour cream, I'm telling you,

1426
01:21:52,479 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 2: you dunk them together and it is more delicious than

1427
01:21:56,360 --> 01:21:57,280
Speaker 2: you could imagine.

1428
01:21:57,520 --> 01:21:57,840
Speaker 3: Sam.

1429
01:21:58,160 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 2: Thank you. At least you're nodding. I appreciate one of you.

1430
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:04,040
Speaker 2: By the way, I've already watched it, so not only

1431
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:06,759
Speaker 2: had I had to snack, but I've already cut this class.

1432
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:10,799
Speaker 2: I'm going to be playing hooky tomorrow. I'm crazy for you, guys.

1433
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:13,799
Speaker 2: This is true crime tonight. Make sure you find us tomorrow.

1434
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:14,479
Speaker 11: Back