WEBVTT - Trump Says He is Open to Mueller Interview

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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<v Speaker 1>day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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<v Speaker 1>important legal news of the day. You can find more

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<v Speaker 1>episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. Despite his claims

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<v Speaker 1>that the Rushia investigation is a witch hunt, President Trump

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<v Speaker 1>has maintained that he would be willing to sit down

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<v Speaker 1>for an interview with Special Counsel Robert Mueller. Speaking about

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<v Speaker 1>it earlier this year, I would love to speak. I

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<v Speaker 1>would love to Nobody wants to speak more than me,

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<v Speaker 1>in fact against my lawyers, because most lawyers they never

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<v Speaker 1>speak on editing. I would love to speak now. In

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<v Speaker 1>an interview with Associated Press, Trump's lead lawyer, Rudy Giuliani

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<v Speaker 1>did say that Trump will not answer federal investigators questions

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<v Speaker 1>in person or even in writing about whether he tried

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<v Speaker 1>to block the probe into Russian interference in the election,

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<v Speaker 1>But about a half an hour ago on Air Force One,

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<v Speaker 1>Trump against it. He's open to a Muller Q and

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<v Speaker 1>a under the right circumstances, joining me. As William Banks,

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<v Speaker 1>Professor at Syracuse University Law School, So, Bill, unless you

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<v Speaker 1>can follow the bouncing ball, you can't really keep track

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<v Speaker 1>of what the what the president and his attorney are

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<v Speaker 1>saying about this. But let's talk about written questions. That

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<v Speaker 1>seems to be the easier of solutions, because Trump's lawyers

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<v Speaker 1>would obviously draft any written answers. It is, and and

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<v Speaker 1>I imagine that's certainly his lawyers are pushing hard in

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<v Speaker 1>that direction, both with the Muller team and in their

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<v Speaker 1>conversations with the President. We know the President, however, assist

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<v Speaker 1>inclined not only to disregard his lawyer's advice on many occasions,

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<v Speaker 1>but he likes to talk um. So I can imagine

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<v Speaker 1>an interview where he agrees to speak, and then it's

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<v Speaker 1>a question of, you know, how carefully is and what

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<v Speaker 1>his memory is like, uh, and whether he's entirely truthful.

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<v Speaker 1>So why would Giuliani be ruling out in his latest pronouncement,

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<v Speaker 1>be ruling out written questions and answers. Yeah, I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's a matter of internal discussions among the lawyers in

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<v Speaker 1>the White House, and there's probably a debate about whether

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<v Speaker 1>they should try to just for forestall the effort to

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<v Speaker 1>have an interview at all. Instead compromise, So oral or

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<v Speaker 1>written I think is part of the compromise situation. In

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<v Speaker 1>the end. I think, you know, if if Mueller continues

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<v Speaker 1>to push hard for an interview with the president, he's

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<v Speaker 1>he's likely to get it. We know that he could

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<v Speaker 1>probably force it through through a grand jury. He could

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<v Speaker 1>probably subpoena Trump uh and force him to appear. That's

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<v Speaker 1>why that's the way it started between ken Starrnville Clinton

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<v Speaker 1>twenty years ago and then the Negotiati settlement, and the

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<v Speaker 1>President did have an interview in the White House. It

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't particularly successful. It was it was more of a

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<v Speaker 1>of a media show than anything else, and it didn't

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<v Speaker 1>really impact the eventual proceedings of impeachment against Clinton. So Muller,

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<v Speaker 1>what is Mueller's the advantage to Muller in allowing written

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<v Speaker 1>answers where he doesn't get to, you know, test the

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<v Speaker 1>president's memory and see his demeanor. Well, it's not as

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<v Speaker 1>good as as an interview, that's for sure. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we have to remember that Mueller has many sources to

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<v Speaker 1>draw on here to issue his final report or to

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<v Speaker 1>take whatever ever other additional steps you might want to take.

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<v Speaker 1>He's got interviews of what two dozen or more other

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<v Speaker 1>witnesses who were involved in the administration who had close

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge both of the Russia aspect and of the COMI firing,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's going to be the Comic firing and potential obstruction.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that the lawyers are advising the president to

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<v Speaker 1>a void. They don't want to get him in with

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<v Speaker 1>what Mr Giuliani is called the perjury trap. And you

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<v Speaker 1>know that's that's good advice. So let's turn now to

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<v Speaker 1>the anonymous op ed. President Trump just said that he

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<v Speaker 1>wants Attorney General Jeff's Sessions to investigate the author of

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<v Speaker 1>the anonymous op ed. He said, I think it's national security.

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<v Speaker 1>I would say Jeff should be investigating who the author

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<v Speaker 1>of that pieces because I really believe it is national security.

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<v Speaker 1>So is an investigation by the Justice Department in order here? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think so. You know, this is one of

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<v Speaker 1>those things that you know, the President is h he's

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<v Speaker 1>a very smart man, and he's using miss again to obscure,

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<v Speaker 1>obscure the underlying difficulties that he's in because of the

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<v Speaker 1>Mueller investigation. You know, the op it was an extraordinary

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<v Speaker 1>event for sure, or extraordinary that it exists. An extraordinary

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<v Speaker 1>that was published anonymously by The New York Times. But

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<v Speaker 1>it's not an action security issue. There's no you knows,

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<v Speaker 1>as several people that have commented in the last couple

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<v Speaker 1>of days. Uh, you know, there's dissent and discussion inside

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<v Speaker 1>the administration all the time, not just the Trump administration.

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<v Speaker 1>Every administration government is making sausage and executive branch in

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<v Speaker 1>the same way that that the Congress makes sausage and

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<v Speaker 1>trying to draft legislation. So I think this will blow over, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>in the same way that so much has blown over

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<v Speaker 1>in the Trump administration. And again he's using it very cleverly,

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<v Speaker 1>I think, to try to distract us from other issues

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<v Speaker 1>before it blows over. Let me ask you another question

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<v Speaker 1>about it. He also said on Air Force one again

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<v Speaker 1>that he's administered ration is looking into taking legal action

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<v Speaker 1>against The Times for publishing the article. Is there any

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<v Speaker 1>kind of legal action you could imagine against the Times

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<v Speaker 1>for publishing an op ed? No, is the short answer.

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<v Speaker 1>There's an absolute First Amendment right to publish. There's no

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<v Speaker 1>such thing as a priory straint. There's you know, as

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<v Speaker 1>the President himself has admitted on various occasions, the libel

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<v Speaker 1>laws in this country, as he says, are are very

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<v Speaker 1>uh favorable to the speaker or the writer, as they

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<v Speaker 1>well should be. That's our whole tradition in our history

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<v Speaker 1>in the United States, would be I think, the core

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<v Speaker 1>freedom that neither The New York Times or any of

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<v Speaker 1>us would be willing to give up. It's obvious that

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<v Speaker 1>not only the op ed, but the publication of the

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<v Speaker 1>book by Bob Woodward is weighing on the president and

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<v Speaker 1>it hasn't even really come out yet. But he also

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<v Speaker 1>said today that if Gary Cohen took those papers off

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<v Speaker 1>his desk, he'll never speak to him again. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't I don't know what to make of his

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<v Speaker 1>reaction to the Woodword Book, because, as you said, things happen.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, there are people inside white houses that talk

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<v Speaker 1>all the time and say not nice things about presidents.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. And you know it's not Mr Trump who's

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<v Speaker 1>special in this case. That's been true probably every president

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<v Speaker 1>in our history, for those who work for him and

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<v Speaker 1>try to shape policy that eventually gets made by the

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<v Speaker 1>executive branch. So I think, yes, the Woodword Book is

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<v Speaker 1>uh is powerful because he's such a credible source and

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<v Speaker 1>such a highly regarded journalist with a long distinguished record.

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<v Speaker 1>So his sources, some of whom will identify themselves, and

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<v Speaker 1>others won't, I think, have a great deal more credibility,

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<v Speaker 1>say than the book that was published last winner or

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<v Speaker 1>in the Winner of seventeam. So you know, again, the

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<v Speaker 1>president has reason to be concerned about the releases, but

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<v Speaker 1>there isn't anything he can do about them. All right,

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much, Bill. As always, that's William Banks. He's

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<v Speaker 1>a professor at Syracuse University Law School. Today is the

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<v Speaker 1>fourth and final day of the Senate Judiciary Committee hearings

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<v Speaker 1>on Brett Kavanaugh's nomination to the Supreme Court. In two

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<v Speaker 1>days of questioning, Kavanaugh refused to answer pointed questions on

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<v Speaker 1>a host of subjects ranging from abortion to presidential powers,

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<v Speaker 1>always refusing to answer any questions pertaining to President Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal asking him about Justice Ruth

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<v Speaker 1>Pader Ginsburg. This is not political, this is about Justice Ginsberg.

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<v Speaker 1>You believe that her quote mind is shot, end quote Sarah. Respectfully,

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<v Speaker 1>you're asking me to after having read those comments. You're

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<v Speaker 1>asking me to comment on something another person said, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to do that. Joining me is Greg

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<v Speaker 1>store Bloomberg, new Supreme Court reporter who has been watching

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<v Speaker 1>just about every minute of these hearings, right, Greg, as

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<v Speaker 1>much as I could. Okay, So I have to say

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<v Speaker 1>that that exchange with Bloomenthal surprised me, even though I

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<v Speaker 1>had heard, you know, much of what Judge Kavanaugh said.

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<v Speaker 1>Why would a nominee refuse to say that an icon

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<v Speaker 1>on the Court has not lost it? Well, Judge Kavanaugh

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<v Speaker 1>clearly was trying to stay as far away as he

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<v Speaker 1>could from political controversies. And even though that was about

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<v Speaker 1>a future colleague, that was clearly a comment had he

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<v Speaker 1>been critical of what President Trump said, That was a

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<v Speaker 1>comment that was going to be used for political purposes. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>And he wanted to stay away from that. He didn't

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<v Speaker 1>need to. This was a hearing where, uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>really his main goal was to avoid making mistakes, and

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<v Speaker 1>that was an area that potentially could have been mistake

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<v Speaker 1>for him. Now it seemed as if he went even

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<v Speaker 1>further than Neil Gorstch did in his nomination hearings in

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<v Speaker 1>an attempt not to say anything. I mean, he refused

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<v Speaker 1>to say, which gorste did, that it's not right to

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<v Speaker 1>denigrade judges because of their ethnic background. He refused to

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<v Speaker 1>say he would refuse himself from certain cases, even though

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<v Speaker 1>other justices have agreed to that. Is there a fear

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<v Speaker 1>that Trump could rescind the nomination if he hears something

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<v Speaker 1>he doesn't like. Well, you know that that's an interesting question.

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<v Speaker 1>There were reports that uh, Donald Trump at least discussed

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<v Speaker 1>resending Gorsige's nomination after he made those comments about being

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<v Speaker 1>disheartened about about criticism of the judiciary or suggestions that

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<v Speaker 1>a judge might be influenced by his or her ethnic background. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I can't say what was motivating Brett Kavanaugh. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>you are right, he did. He was even more careful

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<v Speaker 1>than than Neil Gorcer was and in trying to stay

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<v Speaker 1>out of those areas. Um. Uh, you know, did not

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<v Speaker 1>give the Democrats the kind of answers that they wanted.

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<v Speaker 1>But Democrats are powerless to to stop them. Giving the

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<v Speaker 1>Republican control of the Senate. No, there were some unusual

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<v Speaker 1>exchanges with Senator Kamala Harris about whether he talked with

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<v Speaker 1>anyone at a law firm Casuits about the Muller investigation.

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<v Speaker 1>Did that end up going anywhere? Did Harris have any

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<v Speaker 1>proof that he that he did talk to someone, because

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<v Speaker 1>it was really a point that was pushed and pushed.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah she had any proof, she didn't show it. Um. No,

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<v Speaker 1>it seemed like on on the first day of questioning,

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<v Speaker 1>she seemed like she knew something. She was asking him,

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<v Speaker 1>she had this idea in her head that, uh, it

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<v Speaker 1>seemed that maybe he had had an inappropriate conversation, and

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<v Speaker 1>he was very worry about giving an answer. By day two, Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>he had identified one person in the firm that he

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<v Speaker 1>that he knows pretty well and said no, I did

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have any conversations with him or or anybody else

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<v Speaker 1>at the firm about the Muller investigation. And then that

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<v Speaker 1>was the end of it. Now. Senator Corey Booker ignited

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of a firestorm there when he, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>said that he was trying to clarify where Kavanaugh stands

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<v Speaker 1>on one of the one of his most controversial judicial

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<v Speaker 1>decisions related to race. Where where do you see that

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<v Speaker 1>he stands. Is it clear or it's ambiguous on the

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<v Speaker 1>subject of race. So so Senator Booker was looking at

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<v Speaker 1>a couple memos, a couple of emails that Judge Kavanaugh wrote,

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<v Speaker 1>um or our series of emails that that he wrote

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<v Speaker 1>back when he was working in the Bush administration. One

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<v Speaker 1>of them had to do with the case involving minority

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<v Speaker 1>set asides and in federal contracting. Uh. And in that

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<v Speaker 1>case uh, Mr Kavanaugh then Mr Kafanhaugh used language made

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<v Speaker 1>it pretty clear he was very skeptical about this program.

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<v Speaker 1>He called it a naked racial set aside um. On

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<v Speaker 1>the other hand, the other document that the other series

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<v Speaker 1>that that that Booker was getting into had to do

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<v Speaker 1>with racial profiling after nine eleven at airports, and they're

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<v Speaker 1>what touch Kavanaugh Brett Kavanaugh seemed to say pretty clearly

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<v Speaker 1>said was that he was not on the side of

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<v Speaker 1>using racial profiling at airports, at least as a long

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<v Speaker 1>term measure um. He would rather find a race neutral

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<v Speaker 1>way to ensure that airports are safe. So it was

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<v Speaker 1>in some ways a mixed bag of stuff that that

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<v Speaker 1>emerged from those emails. Now most people are saying that

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<v Speaker 1>nothing really moved, No one moved in their positions on Kavanaugh.

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<v Speaker 1>Does that include the two Republican female senators who are

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<v Speaker 1>pointed at as possible votes for abortion. Yeah, they're They're

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<v Speaker 1>both saying they don't have a final decision yet Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing Uh that they said indicated that they are changing

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<v Speaker 1>from where where they've been, which is leaning towards voting

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<v Speaker 1>to confirm him. Uh. Senator Collins UH did suggest that

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<v Speaker 1>she was not especially bothered by another email that came

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<v Speaker 1>out during this process, in which um Brett Kavanaugh, while

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<v Speaker 1>working at the White House, had uh suggested some some

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<v Speaker 1>language be changed in a draft op ed where originally

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<v Speaker 1>it said that legal experts widely accept Rovie Wade as

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<v Speaker 1>as settled law. He suggested that, um, you know, that's

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<v Speaker 1>not quite accurate. There are a lot of legal experts

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<v Speaker 1>who feel otherwise. But Susan Collins said she you know

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<v Speaker 1>what she'd heard about that she wasn't particularly bothered. So

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<v Speaker 1>every reason to think that they are likely to vote

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<v Speaker 1>to confirm him, and he will be confirmed, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much, Gregg. That's Gregg's store. He's the Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>News Supreme Court reporter. And of course we know that

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<v Speaker 1>it has been said by Mitch McConnell that he hopes

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<v Speaker 1>to have a vote on Kavanaugh before the new Supreme

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<v Speaker 1>Court term starts, and it's always the first Monday in Octour.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can

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<v Speaker 1>subscribe and listen into the show on Apple podcast, SoundCloud,

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<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg m