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Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace. Here at Crime Stories, we work

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Speaker 1: so hard every day to stay in touch with you

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Speaker 1: or any of your connected devices. Don't miss Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: Every weekday at high noon Eastern. It's on Sirius XM

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Speaker 1: Channel one eleven, the Triumph Channel. Free listening runs till

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Speaker 1: May fifteen. As XM thank you for being our partner.

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Speaker 1: Whenever I get my twins ready for one of their games,

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Speaker 1: be it soccer or basketball, or my daughter plays volleyball,

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Speaker 1: and I'm getting their uniform ready for them, very often

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Speaker 1: I think of another little boy in his uniform, because

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Speaker 1: that's how I will forever envision Chucky Mark. He had

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Speaker 1: a little Little League outfit. It was red and white

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Speaker 1: with the white pants and the red shirt and the

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Speaker 1: red white cap, and he's holding a glove. That is

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Speaker 1: the most vivid image I have of Chucky. Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace today, in a highly unusual program, we

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Speaker 1: have gathered friends of his before he was murdered. The

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Speaker 1: Cold Case of Chucky Mark. I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at

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Speaker 1: Fox Nation and Sirius XM one eleven the Triumph Channel.

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Speaker 1: Chucky Mark, a little boy, a little leaguer, gunned down

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Speaker 1: riding his bike. What happened? We want justice? With me,

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Speaker 1: a panel unlike any other I have ever seen, with

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Speaker 1: me to put this cold case back together again. Chucky's

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Speaker 1: mother now my friend, Kathy Miller, Cheryl McCollum, director of

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Speaker 1: the Oldcase Research Institute, Chris Pate Robillard, a neighborhood girl

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Speaker 1: that saw Chucky the day he was gunned down riding

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Speaker 1: his bike. Still unsolved. Jason Cranford, Chuckie's friend who has

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Speaker 1: put up one hundred thousand dollars reward. Shanda Birch, Chucky's girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: He asked his mom could he give Shonda her Emerald

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Speaker 1: ring to save it for him for their engagement. Chris

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Speaker 1: Panacheck joining me. Chris at a red light in a

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Speaker 1: car with his sister when he saw Chucky just before

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Speaker 1: Chucky was murdered, and he is joining us right now

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Speaker 1: from the scene where Chucky was shot with me. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst to the Stars and Crime Online dot

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Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter Levi Paige. First, I want you to

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Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend is at forty one

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Speaker 1: NBC WMGT. This is Skyler Henry. He lived right behind

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Speaker 1: the Bowling Alley on Burns Drive. He'd ride his bike

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Speaker 1: to a nearby convenience store all the time to buy Kendy.

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Speaker 1: But one February night was different. Sometime when in those

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Speaker 1: ensuing minutes, someone heard a loud pop. One witness that

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Speaker 1: I've talked to actually described or just thinking it was

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Speaker 1: a firecracker and kids playing. This is where Chucky's body

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Speaker 1: was found. He lived in the neighborhood just beyond this

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Speaker 1: fence post. Witnesses say they saw him talking to someone

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Speaker 1: in a light colored car, but they don't know who.

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Speaker 1: We had a lot of witnesses a lot of people

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Speaker 1: saw things. They see a vehicle speeding away as they approached.

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Speaker 1: Within the next two minutes, Chucky's found deceased. What happened?

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Speaker 1: You were hearing our friend at w MGT NBC Skylar

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Speaker 1: Henry speaking to the house and County Sheriff Captain John Holland.

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Speaker 1: Let me go straight out to Chucky's mother, Kathy Miller

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Speaker 1: joining me. Now, Kathy, I'm going to hold on this

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Speaker 1: to this case as long as we have to, and

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Speaker 1: I want you to tell our listeners, our viewers, now,

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Speaker 1: what happened to night the evening you last saw Chucky.

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Speaker 1: The last evening I saw Chuckie. It was a Monday evening.

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Speaker 1: We had just finished supper, and you know, I'm cleaning,

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Speaker 1: cleaning up the table and everything, and Chucky asked me

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Speaker 1: if he could go to Giant to buy candy for

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Speaker 1: the next day at school, which I heard later that

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Speaker 1: he would sell to make money to buy more candy

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Speaker 1: to sell at recess or whatever it was. And I'm thinking, here, no,

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Speaker 1: you really shouldn't go, but I said, yes, I suggest

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Speaker 1: you can go. Not looking at it is just cleaning up,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't look at him, and he walked out

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Speaker 1: the door, and that was it. What happened next. The

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Speaker 1: next thing I know is about thirty minutes later, a

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Speaker 1: friend in the neighborhood came and knocked on my door

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Speaker 1: and said, Chuckie's hurt. I can see him laying up

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Speaker 1: here by a giant, you know, And I thought, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, he's fallen off his bike. He's hurt his

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Speaker 1: leg or something. So Pete, Chucky stepfather, and Greg, his

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Speaker 1: little brother, and myself, you know, we just ran up

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Speaker 1: there to get him. I thought I'd just see him

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Speaker 1: sitting there, and as I'm running, I can see that

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Speaker 1: it is so much worse, and it's like I can't

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Speaker 1: get there. I'm I'm running in slow motion. And Pete

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Speaker 1: stopped me and told me that it was Chucky and

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Speaker 1: that he was dead, and that somebody had hit him

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Speaker 1: with the cars what they thought at first, and then

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of things aren't clear after that. But

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Speaker 1: that was it. So I never I never really got

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Speaker 1: to But he was not he was not hit by

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Speaker 1: a car. No, this little boy, this the leaguer, was

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Speaker 1: shot dead, this little boy riding his bike. It was

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Speaker 1: no more than three blocks. As the crow flies from

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Speaker 1: home to the little convenience store, because I could that

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Speaker 1: was him where he was laying, and um, I mean

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Speaker 1: it wasn't. It was a shot at close up. It

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Speaker 1: was a close up shot, not from far away, and

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Speaker 1: um yeah. And when they rolled him over, they saw

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Speaker 1: where the bullet had X in the space, and that

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Speaker 1: was they didn't want me to see him, so they

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Speaker 1: were trying to keep me out of by this fence

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Speaker 1: that was right there. And I never saw him again, Kathy,

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Speaker 1: these years later, how has your grief changed over time

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Speaker 1: or has it? It's just so hard to explain. It's

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Speaker 1: just always it's always there. It's like about, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's on the back burner, it's simmering, it's always cooking.

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Speaker 1: I'm always thinking. And you know, I promised Chucky. I

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Speaker 1: promised him I will find what happened to you. I'll

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Speaker 1: never ever let this go. And I just it's still that,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have good days and bad days, and

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Speaker 1: like this is really a good day because I'm here

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Speaker 1: from all his friends that have not forgotten him, and

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Speaker 1: it means so much to me. Speaking of his friends,

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Speaker 1: I want to go straight to Chris Panachek. Chris was

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Speaker 1: at a red light in the car with his sister

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Speaker 1: when he saw Chucky speaking to someone in a white car. Chris,

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Speaker 1: I understand that you were right back at that location

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Speaker 1: right now. Yes, I'm sitting. I'm sitting where the carl

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Speaker 1: was sitting and Chucky was talking to the guy Leen.

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Speaker 1: There were his handlebars on his bike with me and

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Speaker 1: Kim passed him and that stop of the red light. Guys,

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Speaker 1: this is the last time that we spoke to you

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Speaker 1: about Chucky Mak's case. And then I appeared on Fox

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Speaker 1: one afternoon and put out information friends, fellow classmates, his

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Speaker 1: girlfriend and at the time, his little girlfriend saw that,

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Speaker 1: and we have all gotten together to help try and

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Speaker 1: solve the case of Chucky Mark this little boy's murder.

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Speaker 1: To Chris Panachek, thank you so much for being with us.

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Speaker 1: I want to hear from you and I witness. Did

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Speaker 1: you ever speak to police? Yes, ma'am, I stop. I

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Speaker 1: come up here after I got home and learned and

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Speaker 1: learned that Chuckie was shot behind the Roy and Roses

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Speaker 1: here on on Burns Drive by the friend of mine

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Speaker 1: and his dad worked at a convenience store across street, Bobby's.

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Speaker 1: A minute, Mark and me and my sister had just

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Speaker 1: got home laying closed out for school the next day

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Speaker 1: and try a friend of mine called me and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know everybody we ride bikes with all the time

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Speaker 1: when Good jumped rants and stuff with, he said, he

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Speaker 1: just got shot. Like what I just I just seen Chucky.

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Speaker 1: I mean I just seen him talking to the car

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Speaker 1: behind the roar and rose, tell me exactly what happened.

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Speaker 1: Let's just start. You and your sister are in the car.

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Speaker 1: Tell me what happened. Don't leave anything out, all right,

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Speaker 1: we come up burned and we passed. We get past

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Speaker 1: the right here and check. He's talking to a white

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Speaker 1: gentleman in a white Buick Regal type. Whoa, whoa, whoa

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Speaker 1: Right there, I'm getting information I've never heard before. So

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Speaker 1: the purp is a white male in what kind of car?

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Speaker 1: It's a Buick Goes seventy nine eighty one Buick Regal.

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Speaker 1: Type of type of vehicle Utatan white, oh, solid white

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Speaker 1: car could have been a Regal or a Pontiac Granddam,

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Speaker 1: Grand Prix, Grand Grand right right Grand Prix Hellenbile Cut

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Speaker 1: the Supreme. That type of body style two or four

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Speaker 1: door two door. Do you think there was another man

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Speaker 1: in the car no man. There was this one guy

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Speaker 1: in that card. One guy, one guy and a fi

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Speaker 1: ever knew that, Nancy, me, Either and I have talked

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Speaker 1: about this case. I've talked to cops about the case.

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Speaker 1: I've talked to investigators about the case. This is the

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Speaker 1: first time it's being defined as definitely a white male.

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Speaker 1: I mean we, Cheryl McCollum, you and I have gone

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Speaker 1: round and round and said we think it was a

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Speaker 1: white male either one or two. But it could have

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Speaker 1: been a Hispanic mail it could have been an Asian male.

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Speaker 1: But we are now hearing definitively, Cheryl McCollum, it is

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Speaker 1: a white male. We think alone see all white vehicle

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Speaker 1: into two doors. Nancy, this is a game changer, period.

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Speaker 1: It is overwhelming to me that law enforcement has not

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Speaker 1: put this out correctly. Has not Hey hey, hey, hey hey.

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Speaker 1: As much as I know you love to bask the cop,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl when deserved, let's just keep plowing forward with the facts,

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Speaker 1: time stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about the

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Speaker 1: murder of a little boy who was grown dear to

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Speaker 1: my heart tipline four seven eight five four two two

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Speaker 1: zero eight zero, and we are learning information we've never

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Speaker 1: known before with me, many of Chucky's friends that he

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Speaker 1: knew at the time, one of them an eyewitness also

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Speaker 1: with me, Chucky's mom and his little girlfriend at the time,

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Speaker 1: Chandra Birch to Chris panachek, let me get back to

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Speaker 1: where we were. You're in a car with sister. You

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Speaker 1: look over, you see Chucky speaking to the guys. What

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Speaker 1: was their interaction. Chucky was just had his arms folded

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Speaker 1: in there talking to the g who would laugh. He

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Speaker 1: was like laughing and talking to this guy. And the

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Speaker 1: next thing, you know, the lights, the lights from from

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Speaker 1: the firms man's car, you know, kind of I guess

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Speaker 1: my vision ornything, but I kept on looking back and

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Speaker 1: my sixty was driving stop as they were able to

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Speaker 1: stop signing. I don't think his comedian store was there

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Speaker 1: to the end, but were sitting there, and if we

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Speaker 1: hadn't had the radio up so loud when I sat

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Speaker 1: back down, Tucky was talking. You know, would had picked

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Speaker 1: his front tire up on his bike and turned turned

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Speaker 1: into the turn away from this day, and if I hadn't,

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Speaker 1: we hadn't had the radio up so loud, we would

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Speaker 1: have heard the shot because when he picked his front

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Speaker 1: tire up I turned around and sat down and stopped

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Speaker 1: looking back, and then nasonally was shot in the back

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Speaker 1: of the head. That's very very interesting to me that

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Speaker 1: you watched for that length of time that he actually

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Speaker 1: turned around and you look back. Something told you to

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Speaker 1: turn around and look back. You saw Chucky. He was,

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Speaker 1: I guess, still on his bike with his feet on

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Speaker 1: the ground, but his arms were folded. Did I hear

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Speaker 1: that correctly, Yes, ma'am. He was talking the guy with

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Speaker 1: his arms folded like NICs over. He did so. It

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Speaker 1: was hunched over, arms folded, rode bike that Chucky forever.

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Speaker 1: His arms were actually touching the handlebar, yes, ma'am. And

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Speaker 1: did you say he was laughing? Yeah, it was like

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Speaker 1: they were having a conversation with each other. They were

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Speaker 1: conversating with each other, and you know, Chuck, Chuck, he

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Speaker 1: made a lot of hand jester when he talked. What's

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Speaker 1: he doing that? Yes, the whole time, the whole time

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Speaker 1: I went. He went to walk right out the window

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Speaker 1: into the car, and you know, Keim was like, we're

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Speaker 1: going so like, well, I I blame myself because I

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Speaker 1: could get right out of the room and said, hey, Chucky,

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Speaker 1: and just maybe something would have been different. Chris, the

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Speaker 1: guy in the car, how close was he too? Chucky

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Speaker 1: probably two foot foot the most of the two foot

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Speaker 1: frowy guy was sitting in his car. So was the

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Speaker 1: car closer to the to the parking lot or was

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Speaker 1: Chucky closer to the road. I'm probably five foot from

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Speaker 1: the curve Burners Drive right now, and then I'm sitting

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Speaker 1: exactly where I remember, well not exactly, but where I

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Speaker 1: remember the car sitting, and I'm looking towards the fence

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Speaker 1: down Burns Drive. So how close was Chucky to the

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Speaker 1: actual street? Was he on the sidewalk? It was played

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Speaker 1: by ten foot fifteen foot from the side front of

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Speaker 1: the from the edge of the curb fifteen feet from

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Speaker 1: the curb. Was he in the parking lot of the

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Speaker 1: gas station the seven to eleven? No, the gas stations

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Speaker 1: up towards Russell Park were a little bit more. We

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Speaker 1: were we were Actually he was actually right beside the

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Speaker 1: Bowling Alley and behind Roy and Roses theory. So had

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Speaker 1: he had he already left the convenience store? Yes, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's important to me because I always pictured that he

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Speaker 1: was in the parking lot of the convenience store. But

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Speaker 1: he had left the convenience store with the candy. Correct. Yes,

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Speaker 1: m looked like he was on the way home back

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Speaker 1: bay mis Kelly. I mean that's yeah. Well I look

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Speaker 1: at it now. I'm like he was heading back home.

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Speaker 1: It's like this guy had to be driving, but he

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Speaker 1: had to be leaning. Like, talk to Chucky. Was the

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Speaker 1: car stopped, Chris? Had he totally stopped his car? Was

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Speaker 1: it in park? Yes? Man, it was just sitting here talking.

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Speaker 1: Chucky's like, I'm sitting here now facing the exact same

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Speaker 1: trying to face the exact same direction. Was he had

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Speaker 1: an intersection or pulled over on the side of the road. No,

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Speaker 1: he's in the parking lot in the There's a big

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Speaker 1: parking lot in front of the bowling alley and beside

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Speaker 1: the bowling alley. It's like one of those many shopping centers. Gotcha,

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Speaker 1: I understand now. So he's not on the street, he's

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Speaker 1: in the parking lot. I just wonder. I guess at

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Speaker 1: that time, there was no surveillance video or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: And you're sure there was only one white male in

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Speaker 1: the car, Chris. One person. That's all that's I mean

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Speaker 1: that I remember this night like it was I mean

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Speaker 1: I remember this night like it was yesterday. It played

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Speaker 1: over and over and over in my mind. I just

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Speaker 1: it's never gone away and it will never go away.

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Speaker 1: And when you turned around and you look back at Chucky,

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Speaker 1: you saw him turn his wheel like he was leaving. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he picked the front tire up like you know guys would.

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Speaker 1: And when we got to go somewhere and were close something,

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Speaker 1: pick your front tire up and you put your foot on,

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Speaker 1: one foot on the pedal, one foot on the ground.

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Speaker 1: You picked that front at back up and turn, you know,

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Speaker 1: turn to put the bike front where back down and

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Speaker 1: go where you're going. Jason, you don't want talking about Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I see you do that all the time. Chris panna

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Speaker 1: check one more question? Did you what can you tell

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Speaker 1: me about the guy you looked back? Could you see

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Speaker 1: his face? What color was his hair? Did he have

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Speaker 1: a mustache? Anything I gave? I got like they've got

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Speaker 1: a sketch. Uh you think I got a sketch or

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Speaker 1: mean what me and my sister did. And the guy

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Speaker 1: was just a white male, you know, pale skin, acting

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Speaker 1: like red red or brown hair hair, brown hair. I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at the sketch right now, and it looks like

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Speaker 1: he's got a little bit of a mustache going, and

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Speaker 1: he's wearing an open collar shirt and his hair is

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Speaker 1: parted on his left and kangs and I say something here,

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Speaker 1: How well did he look to you? Yeah? One last question?

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Speaker 1: How old did he look to you? Chris in his

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Speaker 1: twenties twenty five six seven? Understand? I think I hear

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Speaker 1: Jason Cranford, is that you Jason? Jump in, Jason, I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to say that that sketch that you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: the guy with a mustache. I was told by Houston

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Speaker 1: County Homicide that that sketch looks nothing like the sketch

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Speaker 1: that Chris Pinoxi did the Night of the or his

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Speaker 1: sister did the Night of the m Chris, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: heard that was that aged him? They did that, The

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Speaker 1: FBI did that at Quantico where they aged him, But

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Speaker 1: it was not the sketch that was shown to us

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Speaker 1: that night. Hi, guys, Nancy Grace, here at a time

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Speaker 1: when we are all pulling together to fight coronavirus COVID nineteen,

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Speaker 1: on the internet and on infomercials. Right now, you've got

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Speaker 1: crime online dot com. You'll see it there, hid the

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Speaker 1: link and download it for free. Arm yourself against criminals

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Speaker 1: of you, but take advantage of you, your parents, your grandparents,

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Speaker 1: and people you love at a time when we are

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Speaker 1: all fighting the virus. I hope you go to crime

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece joining me. Also is Chris

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Speaker 1: Pate Robillard, a little neighborhood girls saw Chucky the day

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Speaker 1: he was killed, riding his by after school. Chris, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. Yes, thank you, Nancy, thank you, Chris,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Don't don't anybody move, don't anybody go anywhere.

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Speaker 1: Chris pay Robillard, tell me what you saw that day? Well, um,

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Speaker 1: it just breaks my heart even going through all of

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Speaker 1: it right now, it all is. It's surreal. Um. The

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Speaker 1: day of around it was we got out of school

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Speaker 1: at three fifteen and around four fifteen, four thirty, Chuck

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Speaker 1: came over to my house. Um. I lived a couple

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Speaker 1: of blocks away from him, and he just came over

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Speaker 1: to It's funny. He actually had candy and he just

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Speaker 1: came over to talk and we sat in my driveway.

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Speaker 1: I vividly remember we sat in the driveway and we

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Speaker 1: talked about Shanda's a girlfriend which he adored, and I

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Speaker 1: was a good friend to her. And we ate all

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Speaker 1: the candy he had. I'm sorry, Miss Miller, there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of candy that day. Um. And I remember

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Speaker 1: we just sat and talked and hung out just like

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Speaker 1: thirteen year old kids do. And he was off to

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Speaker 1: go jump. I think they were jumping ramps and stuff

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Speaker 1: with Ja. They had built that ramp. Yeah, And but

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Speaker 1: he just came by and we hung out like we

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Speaker 1: always did, and ate candy of course, and just you know,

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Speaker 1: just doing with thirteen year old. And he didn't act

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Speaker 1: like he was scared about anything, did he? Absolutely not? Not, Okay.

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Speaker 1: I always wondered that, no, ma'am, not at all, you

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Speaker 1: know to dodgor Bethany Marshall Psychoana was joining me out

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Speaker 1: of Beverly Hills at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. You know,

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Speaker 1: in every case, it seems to me that there are

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Speaker 1: certain facts, whether they're probitive, prove anything or not, sticks

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Speaker 1: out in my mind. I remember the first carjack murder

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Speaker 1: case I tried. It's not the defendant who got convicted,

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Speaker 1: by the way that six in my mind, it's the

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Speaker 1: fact that when the gunshot rang out, a neighbor ran

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Speaker 1: out of the house, and that the victim was either

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Speaker 1: dead or dying in his own driveway. The neighbor runs

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Speaker 1: back in the house and comes out with a pillow

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Speaker 1: and puts under the dead guy's head. And what I

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Speaker 1: just heard Chris Pate Robelard saying, how innocent they were,

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Speaker 1: these little kids twelve or thirteen years old. You know,

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Speaker 1: the big thrill was to go to the seven to

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Speaker 1: eleven and get some candy. And you know he's twelve

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Speaker 1: us years old. He goes, hey, mom. She finds him

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Speaker 1: going through her jewelry and he goes save that emerald

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Speaker 1: ring for me because you know, I'm going to ask

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Speaker 1: Sean did and marry me one day. I'm just thinking

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Speaker 1: about the dichotomy of their their innocence and then what happened.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you don't you didn't think anything about letting

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Speaker 1: them go out like because it was just like right

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Speaker 1: around the corner, you know, because I've always blamed myself.

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Speaker 1: I've always blamed myself for saying yes to him, you know.

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Speaker 1: And doctor Bethany Marshall is with us analyzing a coal

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Speaker 1: case which we are reading heating up today Chucky. Doctor Bethany,

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Speaker 1: I know you just heard Chucky's mom say she's always

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Speaker 1: felt guilty about just letting him go out on his bike.

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Speaker 1: But missus Mark, you can't say no to everything, because

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Speaker 1: if you say no to everything, then you have an

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Speaker 1: imprisoned child and a child who cannot develop and grow

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Speaker 1: and be inquisitive and learn about the world. These stories

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Speaker 1: are so moving and profound to me, and I want

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Speaker 1: to say something that sticks out is Chucky's friend who

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Speaker 1: looked back through the car from the rear window and

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Speaker 1: saw that Chucky's arms were folded over the handlebar of

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Speaker 1: his bike, and that he seemed to be leaning forward

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Speaker 1: in deep in a conversation. And that speaks to the

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Speaker 1: innocent you're talking about, Nancy, that some perpose stopped him

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Speaker 1: and engaged him in a conversation. And how many times

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Speaker 1: has that happened to every single person on this panel

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Speaker 1: in childhood? To our own children are relatives that it

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00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,479
Speaker 1: always starts with something innocent. The adult says, Hey, can

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Speaker 1: I have a piece of your candy? Or oh I

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Speaker 1: love that bike? Or oh you know what I'm lost?

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Speaker 1: Can I do you know where then your gas station is?

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Speaker 1: It's always to something like that, and Chucky leaning over

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Speaker 1: the handles. He thought nothing was wrong, but at some

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Speaker 1: point something must have crossed his mind, even at his

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Speaker 1: young age, that he was in trouble. Think and think

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Speaker 1: and think what they were talking about. Because the mom,

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Speaker 1: Kathy Miller, has racked her mind. She doesn't know a

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Speaker 1: family friend with that kind of car. The description doesn't

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Speaker 1: match anyone they know. Take a listen now to our

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00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: friends at WMGT. The call first came in as a

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Speaker 1: hidden run. It was soon determined it he was actually

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Speaker 1: died as a result of a single gunshot one and

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00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: I say a gunshot one through the head. But who

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00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: would shoot a thirteen year old boy. We don't expect

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Speaker 1: our children to be shot and killed in House and

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Speaker 1: County in this matter. People during that time quit letting

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Speaker 1: the kids ride their lives. They quit letting him go

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Speaker 1: up the street on the box. Captain John Holland, like

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Speaker 1: the House and County Sheriff's Office, says he an investigators

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00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: interviewed dozens of people trying to find that answer. They

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00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: turned the neighborhood inside out. They campus the neighborhood. I

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00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: think they set up road chicks during that time just

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Speaker 1: to find people that had seen things. And even to

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Speaker 1: this day we do get calls with people that either

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Speaker 1: have some information or have an idea about who may

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00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: have been involved. There is still no suspect. It's a

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00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: tough conversation. She still has some hope that one day

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Speaker 1: she'll get some resolution, but it's difficult, don't you know.

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Speaker 1: Oh wait, that was our friend, scholar Henry Henry at

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Speaker 1: WMGT speaking to the Captain John Holland joining me now

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00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: is in addition to Kathy Miller, Chucky's mother, his friend

426
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, Leavi Page, and doctor Bethany Marshall. Shanda Burch.

427
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: This is Chucky's then girlfriend who to this day is

428
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: haunted by his death. Shanda Birch. Thank you for being

429
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: with us. Thank you, Nancy. Shanda, tell me about the

430
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: day that Chucky was murdered. Um, it's hard to talk about. Actually,

431
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: my brother's friend gave my brother a call and told

432
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: my brother that something had happened to Chuck and that

433
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: he was heard or he was shot. And I totally

434
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: didn't believe him. I just I thought, oh, if that's

435
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: that can't be true. I don't I don't believe this.

436
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: And I was just in a state of shock. And

437
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: I stayed up that night so I could watched the

438
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: eleven o'clock news to see if if this was true,

439
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: if this happened. And um, I stayed up and I

440
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: watched it, and it happened, and I just remember not

441
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: believing it. Shanda, you say that to this day, Chucky's

442
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: murder still haunts you, explained, Well, Nancy, when you're twelve

443
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: years old, you don't really know how to handle, you know,

444
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: something so huge like that, and um, it was something

445
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: that you didn't know what to do, You didn't know

446
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: how to help, you didn't know who to talk to. UM,

447
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: And so it took a long long time to process

448
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: that information, you know, way into adulthood, and to this

449
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: day it's still it's still difficult to talk about UM.

450
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: You know, do not trust people, and it makes you

451
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: feel this is still going on and there's no answers.

452
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: I love you, Shanda. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Shanda

453
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: verche with me Chucky's little girlfriend at the time. And

454
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: let me just pose this question to all of you

455
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: on the palel, to all of you listening now, do

456
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: you remember the first person you ever thought you loved,

457
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: very first person, your first love. I bet a lot

458
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: of us know where that person is right now, what

459
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: they're doing for a living, what became of them. And

460
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about what Shanda has been through. Shanda, how

461
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: do you believe this has affected your life? It's affected

462
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: my life tremendously. Um. He was my best friend and

463
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: we loved each other, we really did. And and I

464
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: think if he would have lived, I really do think

465
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: that we would have been together, or at least have

466
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: been best friends and been in our life. You know,

467
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: I think he would still be a part of my life.

468
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: And I've always felt like there was something missing in

469
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: my life and you just can't replace that. Well, he

470
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: cared so much, Beth, He did. He really cared so

471
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: much for you, and I'm so glad that he had

472
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: a chance in his early years to to fall in love,

473
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: to be able to experience that, and he did love you. Yeah, Kathy,

474
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: please tell a story about him finding your emerald ring.

475
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. We were going through my jewelry and it

476
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: was just an emerald, an emerald cut emerald playing you

477
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: know ring. It wasn't really fancy, but he fell in

478
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: love with that, and he says, Mama, keep that ring

479
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: because I'm going to give that to Shando one day.

480
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: And I said, okay, Darling, I will, And in fact,

481
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: I buried him with that. Oh. I put it on

482
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: his little finger because that was one of the things

483
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: that was so important to him. And he would go

484
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: on my jewelry box every once in a while and

485
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: look at it, you know, And I knew how important

486
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: it was, and I knew how important she was to him,

487
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: So I thought, then that's where it needs to be

488
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: with him. To doctor Bethany Marshall's Psycho Walla's joining us

489
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: out of Beverly Hills at doctor Bethany marshall dot com

490
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany. There's something about and I've had to live

491
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: with it since the murder of my fiancee. There's something

492
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: about dreams that never came true. You wonder the rest

493
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: of your life. Even though now I have a family

494
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: and my children, sometimes I think, well, I wonder what

495
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: would have happened. It's I can't really, I'm just a

496
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: j D. All Right, you're the shrink, Bethany. Can you

497
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: address what Shanda is saying that it's like something is

498
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: just suddenly gone in your life and there's you think

499
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: about it like a Rubic's cube. You keep trying to

500
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: put it together, you know, Nancy. As I was listening

501
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: to Shanda, I started to reminisce about the first two

502
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: boys I ever had a crush on in grade school

503
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: and in June or high So that was very evocative.

504
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: I think think of with the proliferation of Facebook, how

505
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: many people went back to find their childhood sweethearts or

506
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: the children that they love the most in childhood. Think

507
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 1: about seniors when their spouses of fifty years die who

508
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 1: do they go back to their first sweetheart. I hear

509
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: it all the time in my clinical practice, we read

510
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: it in the news, and I think that the underpinnings

511
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 1: are that we attach in a different way when we're eleven, twelve, thirteen,

512
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: or eighteen. There's a youthful, innocent, expectant part of us

513
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: where we can idealize in a charming way what our

514
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: future is going to be like with that person. It's

515
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: not yet disrupted by all the disappointments that come along

516
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: the way in adult life. It's pure, it's innocent, it's

517
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 1: full of hope, and so we all want to reach

518
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: back to that. We want to go back to our

519
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: wedding day or renewing of the vows. Now, things begin

520
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 1: in life are so important, just as important as how

521
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: they end, which I think is what's so beautiful about

522
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: memorializing Chucky is that we're talking about the beginning, first love,

523
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: his relationship with his mother, and we're talking about the end,

524
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: and we're memorializing it. Doctor Bethany, just can I just

525
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 1: pause right there, because I don't want to just memorialize Chuckie.

526
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: I want to find his killer. That's what I want.

527
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: Good point that's what we all want. And I'm not

528
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 1: disagreeing with you, Doctor Bethany. I am trying to find

529
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: Chucky mocks killer. Say something about that, Nancy, I think

530
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: the fact yes, I want to give that tipline four

531
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: seven eight five four two two zero eight zero. Go ahead,

532
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, Please, Chucky's friend saw the make and model

533
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 1: of the car, and we kind of briefed past that.

534
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: We addressed it briefly. But you know, when cold cases

535
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: are solved, it's because witnesses who were afraid of the perpetrator,

536
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: with the cooling of emotions the passage of time, they

537
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: become less afraid and they're more willing to come forward.

538
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: Parents who would have once protected a child alto they

539
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: knew was a pedophile, now say, you know what, he's

540
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: fifty or eighty and he's or sixty. He's going to

541
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: keep offending. I'm going to turn him in. So getting

542
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: the make and model of that car out there, I

543
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 1: think is a key to finding the perpetrator. Guys, Chucky

544
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: mak a little boy who just goes to a convenience

545
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: store to get candy. It's part of a strip Mall

546
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 1: one Robins, Georgia. We still don't have answers, but today

547
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: we're learning a lot of clues. I want to circle

548
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: back to Chris Panacheck at a red light in a

549
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 1: car with his sister, Seize Chucky talking to his killer,

550
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 1: sitting in a solid white car outside the convenience store.

551
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: Seize Chucky start to drive off white mail Buick type

552
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 1: car seventy nine to eighty one Regal or Grand Prix

553
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: two door. I want you to think, Chris, is there

554
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: anything rack your brain? Did the guy have his arm

555
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,959
Speaker 1: hanging out? Did he have a tattoo? Was he wearing

556
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: a watch? Is there anything the tires on the car?

557
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: Anything you can tell us. I was put under hypnoticed

558
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: by by mister Ankler with the house Kang Ferret department.

559
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: I think two or three times, and I I'm My

560
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 1: memory of this car is so the emblem on the

561
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: on the vehicle. It's being on the fender behind the

562
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: front tire of that car. That's why I say it's

563
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: a beaut It's like a busic Regal because it was

564
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 1: a it's like a night symbols the crest, the rod,

565
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: you know, like over in England, that family's family crest

566
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: and it's a red white and blue crest. And that

567
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: just I mean, I just always stuck red, white and

568
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 1: blue type crest on the back fender, front, the front

569
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 1: fender of the car, right on the front car fender,

570
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: right behind the front tire, on on which side driver,

571
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: it's an emblem on the on the vehicle. It's like

572
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: the It's on both sides, right and left. But I

573
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: know I've seen it on the left side of the

574
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 1: vehicle when I was coming to the vehicle. Oh you

575
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: mean not on the fender, but on the body of

576
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: the car itself. No, on the fender of the car,

577
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: right behind the right behind the fender wheel of the

578
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: front tire. I understand it at a lot of car

579
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: better A little crest is like gregals, I do believe, Cheryl,

580
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: I've never heard that, CHERRYL. McCollum. I've never heard that

581
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: that should limit what kind of car it is. And

582
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: answer That's what I was trying to say earlier. This

583
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: is such a money tree. We now know there was

584
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: only one person in the car. He was white, the

585
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: type of the car, something is detailed as that crest

586
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: being behind the wheel and all to me, this is

587
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: such a visual There's gonna be somebody from making to

588
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: Warner Robins tips and even that car is significant. This

589
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: is not the first crime that person committed, and it's

590
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: not the first crime they committed in that vehicle. U

591
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: to to Cathy's mom, Wait, let me ask this to

592
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: leave I pay joining me crime online dot com LEVI

593
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: was a bullet ever recovered? Yes, the bullet was recovered, Nancy,

594
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 1: and I just did a Google search and the Buick logo, Nancy,

595
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: there was a Buick logo and it was in red,

596
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: white and blue back in the day, the former logo

597
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: of Buick. So that could be what Chris saw when

598
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: he was examining the car. And what's interesting, Nancy, what

599
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: we know about the evidence in these cases that when

600
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: Chucky was found, he was still gripping the receipt to

601
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: the store and the bubble gum in his hand, which

602
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: means he's left the store. He was also shot in

603
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: the back of the head, which means that his back

604
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: was to the perpetrator when the perpetrator shot him, which

605
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: means that something could have happened, Nancy, that scared Chucky.

606
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,919
Speaker 1: This guy could have creeped him out, and he tried

607
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 1: to get away, and that's when the guy shot him

608
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: to keep him from talking about their conversation or what

609
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: he tried to do to Chuck LEVI, if you don't mind,

610
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: please send me the photo that you managed to get,

611
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: a red, white, and blue. I guarantee you it's going

612
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,959
Speaker 1: to be in the shape of an old English coat

613
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 1: of arms like which is a shield of sorts. Wow. Okay?

614
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: You know with me? Is Chris Panachek, who was at

615
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 1: the red light and saw Chucky just moments, literally seconds

616
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: before he was murdered. Shanda Birch, his little girlfriend who

617
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: was still dealing with the fallout of his murder. Jason Cranford,

618
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: his friend joining us from Colorado who has put up

619
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: a one hundred thousand dollar reward. Jason question, for anyone

620
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: that can give you a call or a tip, how

621
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: do we reach you regarding that reward? Oh? Well, everybody

622
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: on this call. I have myself phone number, in my email,

623
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 1: my Facebook. If there's any other type of contact you

624
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,919
Speaker 1: want me provided, I can provide it and the tip

625
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: line that we have for seven eight five four two

626
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: two zero eight zero. Chris pet Robillard neighborhood that saw

627
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: Chucky the afternoon before he was killed. Cheryl McCollum, director

628
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: Coal Case Research Institute, doctor Bethany Marshall, and Kathy Miller

629
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: Chucky's mom question out to you, Let me go to

630
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: Jason Cranford putting up a hundred thousand dollar reward. How

631
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 1: did you guys all get together to join me today? Oh? So,

632
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: every year there's a Chuck Mark Facebook support group of

633
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 1: ce memorial page, and every year around the anniversary, people

634
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: start posting in there. This year, Shanda Birch made a

635
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 1: post that you know, it really got to me and

636
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: started reminding me of what happened. And I have a

637
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 1: thirteen year old son now, and so it really get

638
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: home this year because of the age of my son

639
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: and the age of Chucky when he died. And you know,

640
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 1: I've been very successful in my business adventures, and you know,

641
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: the reward is something I feel as the least that

642
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: I could do to help Miss Miller get some peace

643
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,919
Speaker 1: with us. You know, she's getting old and I would

644
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 1: like to see that's happened in her lifetime. I had

645
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 1: the money. Chuck was a dear friend of mine. You know,

646
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,879
Speaker 1: I hung out in this Miller's garage. Me and Chuck

647
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: worked on bicycles in there. We jumped the ramp that

648
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 1: everybody keeps talking about. I sent pictures of that ramp. Then,

649
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: you know, I think that after he left Chris Pete's house,

650
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: he came over to the ramp that we all built

651
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: and we were all jumping that ramp, and that was

652
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: the last time I saw him. But you know, this

653
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: was my first experience with death in my life, and

654
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: it's funded me my whole life, just like it's haunted

655
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: the rest of the people on this Guys. I pulled

656
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: up that amblan Levi sent me and it is red,

657
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: white and blue, and it looks like a coat of arms.

658
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: It's amazing, and right now I am sending it Levi.

659
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: I pass it on to Brett really quickly so he

660
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: can pass it on to Chris Panacheck and see if

661
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: that's even remotely what he saw. Guys. Tipline regarding the

662
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: reward is three zero three eight four two zero one

663
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: seven nine repeat three zero three eight four two zero

664
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: one seven nine. Could this emblem on the side of

665
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: that vehicle be the tip that cracks this case wide open? Guys,

666
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: the search for Chucky Mock's killer goes on. Please help

667
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: us hit the case up and put it to rest

668
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: the tip line four seven eight five four two two

669
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 1: zero eight zero. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,