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Speaker 1: Welcome and appreciate all of you listening to us. I

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Speaker 1: am Clay Travis. This is Wins and Losses. I believe

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Speaker 1: this is number forty five or forty six of these conversations.

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Speaker 1: Been having them for a few years off and on

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Speaker 1: wanting to get the Clay and Buck show up and running.

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Speaker 1: So now that we're officially underway there and feel comfortable,

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Speaker 1: I can start some of these long form conversations again.

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Speaker 1: And today's guest is Seth Dylan. He is with the

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Speaker 1: Babylon b and we're gonna get into that here momentarily.

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Speaker 1: Last week we talked with Auburn men's basketball coach Bruce Pearl.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't heard that yet, I think that will

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Speaker 1: be an incredibly enjoyable conversation for you guys to check out.

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Speaker 1: We bring in Seth now. Seth is in the middle

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Speaker 1: of a battle with Twitter, which we are going to

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Speaker 1: eventually work our way up to where the Babylon Be

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Speaker 1: account has been locked over a refusal to delete a

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Speaker 1: to delete a tweet mocking many of the issues that

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Speaker 1: we're dealing with on a day to day basis, but

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Speaker 1: this one in particular with transgender related issues. We'll get

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Speaker 1: to that eventually, but let's start here. First of all,

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Speaker 1: thanks for being on seth Secondly, how in the world

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Speaker 1: have you found yourself doing what you do now? So

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna start with the most basic question, where did

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Speaker 1: you grow up? Would you ever have thought, Hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to end up as a sator is basically on

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Speaker 1: the internet. Uh? What's your background? A great question? Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, thanks for having me on play. It's

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Speaker 1: pleasure to be on the show. Um. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: my background. I grew up is someone appropriately to be

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Speaker 1: running a you know, like a Christian conservative satire said?

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Speaker 1: I grew up in the church. My dad was a pastor. Um.

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Speaker 1: I was born in d C. Of all places, but

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Speaker 1: I bounced around all of the place. When people ask

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Speaker 1: what my hometown is, I don't even know how to

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Speaker 1: answer that because we lived in Maryland and Jersey and

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Speaker 1: Texas and South Florida, so I was kind of moving

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Speaker 1: around a little bit. I don't really have like a hometown. Um,

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Speaker 1: but you know, my my background, my early back ground.

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Speaker 1: I love to read. Um. My parents taught me how

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Speaker 1: to think critically, and they taught me the values as well.

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Speaker 1: And I and as I came into like young adulthood,

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Speaker 1: young adulthood, I cared very much about, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: issues of importance, you know, cultural issues and uh in

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Speaker 1: morals and values UH and making sure that you know,

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Speaker 1: whatever whatever I was doing in terms of like supporting

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Speaker 1: and politics reflected my my values in my worldview. UM.

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Speaker 1: And so I had a good, I think good foundation

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Speaker 1: under me because of my parents. I'm thankful to them

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Speaker 1: for that. But when it comes to like the satire

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Speaker 1: and the humor stuff, I mean, I got into a

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Speaker 1: little bit of trouble in college writing the satire that

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Speaker 1: I sent, I distributed throughout the school. Um, I was

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Speaker 1: able to download the whole email list and like the

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Speaker 1: blast out an email to the staff and faculty and

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Speaker 1: all the students and and it was making fun of

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Speaker 1: the school and some professors, and it was it wasn't

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Speaker 1: super lighthearted. Some of it was even mean spirited. I

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Speaker 1: would say, there was a little bit of an edge

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Speaker 1: to it and UH, and it got me in a

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Speaker 1: bit of trouble with the with the school's administration, and

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Speaker 1: I almost got kicked out of college. So I had

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Speaker 1: I had an early start when it came to getting

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Speaker 1: in trouble with that higher and humor. UM, But I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I didn't start a career doing that because you know,

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Speaker 1: there's not really many ways to make money doing that,

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Speaker 1: and there certainly weren't back then for me. So I

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Speaker 1: got into the Internet marketing world and learned how to

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Speaker 1: do UH, search marketing, SEO, all of that stuff. UM.

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Speaker 1: I worked for some agencies doing that. It wasn't until

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Speaker 1: about two thousand twelves that I struck out on my

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Speaker 1: own as an entrepreneur and uh and the babylon Be

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Speaker 1: fell into my lap in eighteen when I was looking

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Speaker 1: to kind of diversify into the media space and the

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Speaker 1: babble Onbe was taking off like a rocket and UH

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to help it grow. Um. But the

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Speaker 1: guys who was running at adam Ford he started in

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Speaker 1: and he was looking to sell it, so we ended

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Speaker 1: up working at a deal. UM. So, long story short,

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Speaker 1: that's how I got involved in it. But it was

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Speaker 1: just kind of like a dream come true to see

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Speaker 1: something like that come across my radar. When I saw

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Speaker 1: the babble on B, I thought to myself immediately, Man,

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Speaker 1: I wish I had thought of that. I wish I

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Speaker 1: was running that side. I wish I was involved in

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Speaker 1: it in some way. Um, and I initially looked at

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Speaker 1: it as just an investment, like to see if I

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Speaker 1: could get involved as an investor, kind of giving us

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Speaker 1: things some fuel. And uh, never thought I'd be running it,

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Speaker 1: but that's how it worked out, all right. So I

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Speaker 1: want to go back. Your dad is a is a preacher.

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Speaker 1: What religious faith did you grow up in? What was

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Speaker 1: he a minister? What church affiliation? So Protestant Christianity, Evangelical church,

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Speaker 1: but not like any particular denominational affiliation, so Bible churches,

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Speaker 1: community churches, stuff like that. So I grew up in Nashville,

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Speaker 1: as most people who are listening here no, um, and

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Speaker 1: I grew up going to Baptist Church as a kid,

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Speaker 1: as a lot of people who grow up in the

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Speaker 1: South do. Uh. And so I experienced a lot of

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Speaker 1: different preachers and a lot of different preachers sons and daughters.

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Speaker 1: And it's a cliche that they often have issues. Did

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Speaker 1: you feel any particular pressure or any particular or find

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Speaker 1: that you had any particular issues as a preacher son?

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Speaker 1: Do you have brothers and sisters? Like? What was your

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Speaker 1: experience like in that respect, especially since you said you

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Speaker 1: grew up in so many different states. That's not uncommon

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Speaker 1: for those jobs either, because a preacher might constantly be

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Speaker 1: relocating and moving around to find different religious groups to

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Speaker 1: be to be preaching too. Yeah. Well, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think I think kind of a common thing that happens

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Speaker 1: is you have really conservative households, a lot of really

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Speaker 1: strict rules. Um, kids end up, you know, becoming really

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Speaker 1: wanting to rebel and break away from all that. I

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Speaker 1: I grew up having a tremendous amount of respect for

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Speaker 1: my parents, and I was in a very loving home,

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Speaker 1: and so I never really felt any um strong inclination

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Speaker 1: to like lash out against them or defy them. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I never I never really struggled with that.

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Speaker 1: It never really felt like I was jaded because of

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Speaker 1: you know, things that the things that I had seen

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes in the church, or you know that

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Speaker 1: that rocked my faith to its core or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: You know, there was obviously a lot of drama that

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Speaker 1: goes on in churches, and a lot of political stuff

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Speaker 1: that happens behind the scenes, and a lot of fact

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Speaker 1: stabbing and and very Unchristian behavior that you end up seeing. Um,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I think my my parents really they

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Speaker 1: handled it all with a lot of grace and uh

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Speaker 1: and they really just loved on people. Um. And you know,

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Speaker 1: my my dad's job, being a pastor is like a

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Speaker 1: seven jobs. So you know, you're you're you're dealing with

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Speaker 1: stuff in the church, you're preparing for your sermon, but

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Speaker 1: then you're doing hospital visits and and funerals and weddings

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Speaker 1: and all kinds of stuff, just seven um, serving and

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Speaker 1: ministering to other people. So I never had anything but

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Speaker 1: tremendous respect for them. Um. And you know, I think

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Speaker 1: I think my faith only grew stronger as a results

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Speaker 1: of of my my upbringing in the church. So um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess, I guess I might be one of the exceptions.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I have no idea what percentage of

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Speaker 1: pastor's kids turn out normal versus uh, you know, going

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Speaker 1: the other way. So, was there, ever, when you were

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Speaker 1: a kid a move where you were just crushed that

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Speaker 1: you had to leave a particular community or a particular state.

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Speaker 1: Was there a place that you loved as a kid,

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Speaker 1: was one of those moves more traumatic or difficult for

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Speaker 1: you than others? Um? I do remember I grew up

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Speaker 1: in Maryland. I was in Um, we were. We lived

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Speaker 1: in Carroll County, Maryland. My dad passed through little church

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Speaker 1: called Uniontown Bible Church, and it's a really small town

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Speaker 1: and uh, small church and but very close family. The

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Speaker 1: church was like family to us and uh and so

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Speaker 1: those were like my kindergarten years, first second grade. I

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Speaker 1: was a little kid, and I remember when we left there,

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Speaker 1: everybody was really sad and devastated that we were leaving.

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Speaker 1: And I was sad myself because I felt like we

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Speaker 1: were leaving our family. But I was a little kid,

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Speaker 1: you know, I hadn't hadn't developed like lifelong relationships with

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Speaker 1: anyone yet at that point. But um, that sticks out

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Speaker 1: to me most in my memory as being one of

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Speaker 1: those times when I was really sad. I guess as

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Speaker 1: I got a little older, we moved around, you know,

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Speaker 1: four years later, we moved again. Five years later, moved again.

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Speaker 1: I kind of, I guess I got a little accustomed

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Speaker 1: to it. I think it was harder on my sister.

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Speaker 1: You know, she would she had boyfriends, and she was

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Speaker 1: a little older than me. You know, she was having

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Speaker 1: the breakup with boyfriends we moved. That was devastating for her,

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Speaker 1: But um, for me, I kind of got used to it,

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Speaker 1: and I found it exciting going to a new place,

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Speaker 1: meeting new people. Um, it was just that one initial

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Speaker 1: move when I was younger, the first one that I

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Speaker 1: remember where I felt like we were, you know, leaving

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Speaker 1: our home. Where did you go to college? You mentioned

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Speaker 1: that you got in trouble for what you sent out

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Speaker 1: to the school listserv. Where did you go to school?

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Speaker 1: I went to Palmbich Atlantic University. I was there from

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Speaker 1: two thousand and two thousand four. I studied UH. I

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Speaker 1: studied business management. While I was there, I minored in

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Speaker 1: English and and I recently actually got canceled from speaking there.

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Speaker 1: That's another story, but um, I guess that's going on

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Speaker 1: two years now. I was supposed to go speak at

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Speaker 1: the chapel, and the Twitter mob formed to assemble to

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Speaker 1: to to UH to say that to the administration that

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Speaker 1: they shouldn't have someone like me on their campus. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm full of full of hatred and all this stuff. Um,

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Speaker 1: so you know I ended up I ended up getting

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Speaker 1: denied from speaking in the chapel because that's a sacred place.

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Speaker 1: Can you believe that I actually attended that school. I've

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Speaker 1: never even I've never even heard of the school Palm

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Speaker 1: Beach Atlantic. You said, what is Palm Beach Atlantic known for? Uh,

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Speaker 1: beautiful women the beach. I don't know, I mean, is

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Speaker 1: it a big school like I mean, I don't know

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Speaker 1: sports context, so I can't even like how many people

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Speaker 1: would go there. Roughly a few thousands. So yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: not they're not They're not on the map when it

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Speaker 1: comes to like, uh sports, UM, so you know they're not.

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Speaker 1: They're not a highly competitive athletic department. UM. But there

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Speaker 1: are there are a Christian school. It's a private Christian university, UM.

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Speaker 1: So you know, you have a lot of there's a

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Speaker 1: big draw to come down to Florida be be neither

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Speaker 1: near the beach, and so you know, as an alternative

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Speaker 1: as some of the other Christian universities that are not

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Speaker 1: in awesome locations. I think Palm each Atlantic has a

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Speaker 1: has a great draw for that. They do have some

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Speaker 1: good programs there though, and and UH I recently just

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Speaker 1: I actually invested in and and made it a large,

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Speaker 1: large UH donation to their new Philosophy of Religion UM

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Speaker 1: program that they launched a master's and Philosophy Religion. I

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Speaker 1: have a strong interest in like apologetics and philosophy and

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Speaker 1: and arguing for the faith using reason. Uh. And so

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Speaker 1: that they're they're launching a program with someone I really respect,

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Speaker 1: Paul Cope, is running that program and uh, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's gonna be very fruitful training up a younger

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Speaker 1: generation of of Christians who can actually defend intellectually their beliefs. So, um,

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Speaker 1: that's really cool that they're getting into that. So that

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Speaker 1: you made a large donation to the school and they

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Speaker 1: still canceled your speech, yeah the next year. Yeah, So,

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Speaker 1: I mean it seems to me that the Religious School

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Speaker 1: would not necessarily be offended by you, particularly because you're

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Speaker 1: an alarm Were you surprised that they they decided to

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Speaker 1: try to cancel your speech? Yes, and no. I mean

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Speaker 1: you don't really see much backbone and institutions these days.

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Speaker 1: The the squeaky wheel gets the grease, you get these

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Speaker 1: Twitter mobs that form, and they're the really loud, really obnoxious,

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Speaker 1: really angry people that everybody wants to appease. And I

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Speaker 1: think the administration found themselves in a position where, you know,

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Speaker 1: they didn't want to have a they didn't want to

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Speaker 1: have an event on their campus that was attracting any

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Speaker 1: media attention with protests or anything like that. So they

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Speaker 1: just wanted to appease the mob and do what the

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Speaker 1: mob wanted and say, Okay, we're not going to have

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Speaker 1: him in the chapel if you guys don't think that's appropriate. Um,

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Speaker 1: instead of coming and standing by me and saying, there's

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Speaker 1: nothing wrong with this guy. He attended this school, his

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Speaker 1: he he doesn't have, um, you know, terrible values. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't hate people. We stand by him. We want him

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Speaker 1: to speak here. No one. They didn't have my back

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Speaker 1: like that or stand up these kids. And the thing

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Speaker 1: that to me it was it's crazy. It's like, is

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Speaker 1: the administration running the school or are these angry students

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Speaker 1: running the schools? The same thing with Disney? Is the

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Speaker 1: CEO really in charge? And it doesn't really seem that way.

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Speaker 1: It seems like the tail is wagging the dog. There's

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Speaker 1: no doubt we're talking to Seth Dylan. He is the

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Speaker 1: he runs the Babylon b I'll ask him an official title. Uh,

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Speaker 1: since two thousand and eighteen, I believe uh, And I

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Speaker 1: am Clay Travis. This is wins and losses, all right?

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Speaker 1: So you go to college. I'm actually curious about this.

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Speaker 1: You said you were there two thousand to two thousand four.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember the first time you ever got on

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Speaker 1: the internet. You're around my age, so you probably do.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember like the first time you got on

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Speaker 1: the internet and what you did when you got on there?

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Speaker 1: Was it with a O L? Like those discs? What

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Speaker 1: what do you remember about the Internet as a kid

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Speaker 1: growing up? Man, it wasn't it the rich kid that

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Speaker 1: had a O L. I don't even know if I

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Speaker 1: had a well, I think we had like like net

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Speaker 1: zero or something like that. I didn't have. So so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean to answer your question, by the way, I

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Speaker 1: didn't even have the Internet at my house. So when

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Speaker 1: I'm a little bit older than you, I'm nineties seven

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Speaker 1: to two thousand one was the time I was at

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Speaker 1: George Washington, But when I went away to college. The

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Speaker 1: first time I ever got an email address was when

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Speaker 1: I got to college, and we didn't have, to my knowledge,

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Speaker 1: the internet at our house. Now, when I came back

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Speaker 1: home in the summers, by that point, we had the internet,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't have the internet at home. My my

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Speaker 1: uncle next door had Prodigy dial up internet, but I

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Speaker 1: never had the Internet at my house. So so you

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Speaker 1: do you remember the first time. I remember the first

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Speaker 1: time I got on. I was with my friend Greg Schamberg,

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Speaker 1: who I don't even know where Greg lives now, but um,

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Speaker 1: he had a O L those free discs that they

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Speaker 1: sent out. Remember, like you used to get so many

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Speaker 1: hours to get on for the Internet. It was dial up,

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Speaker 1: And I remember he and I got on. That was

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Speaker 1: the very first I was at his house. I was

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Speaker 1: probably you know, ninth or tenth grade. That was the

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Speaker 1: very first time I ever got on the Internet. You

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Speaker 1: had to get like a CD ROM add on for

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Speaker 1: your computers. Yeah, that's right, disc and if you didn't,

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Speaker 1: if you didn't already have one, yeah, I was. I

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Speaker 1: remember my my granddad on my mom's side was really

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Speaker 1: into like playing bridge and stuff on the Internet and

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Speaker 1: so and that was like a big thing early on.

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Speaker 1: And and he was really excited about being able to

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Speaker 1: set us set us up on the internet so that

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Speaker 1: he could chat with us remotely. He lived in Virginia

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Speaker 1: and uh, and so he helped us get on the internet.

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Speaker 1: We got like I c Q and a O L

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Speaker 1: A Messenger and started chatting with friends. I think I

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Speaker 1: was probably fourteen or fifteen around that. Time when we

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Speaker 1: first did you recognize hey, yeah, but did you reckon

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Speaker 1: by the time you get to college two thousand and four,

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Speaker 1: did you recognize even as a young kid, oh, this

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Speaker 1: internet thing is going to be big? Or like I

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Speaker 1: remember getting my email address at GW freshman year, and

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Speaker 1: I remember the guy saying, Hey, this is gonna be

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Speaker 1: one of your favorite things that you ever have in

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Speaker 1: the internet, you know, in college, it's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: big deal. And I remember kind of rolling my eyes

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Speaker 1: like yeah, whatever, and then almost immediately being like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is kind of amazing to be able to email

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Speaker 1: with everybody and to be able to have an email address. Again,

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Speaker 1: I was eighteen before I had an email address. Did

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Speaker 1: you think back then, oh, this is gonna be a

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Speaker 1: big deal in some ways? I mean we had, uh,

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Speaker 1: we had all kinds of ideas. Um, you know, my

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Speaker 1: brother and I we we secured PlayStation two dot com

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Speaker 1: before PlayStation have been announced and uh, and so we

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Speaker 1: were playing around doing stuff like that, like buying domains

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Speaker 1: and stuff. So what happened with PlayStation two dot com?

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Speaker 1: Did you end up selling it or did they like

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Speaker 1: that was called back in the day, right, like you

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Speaker 1: would just try to think about the web addresses. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's started be coming. That was before it was even

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Speaker 1: like a super popular thing. I guess, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, no one had thought of that one yet.

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Speaker 1: And UH and Sony sent us a letter demanding that

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Speaker 1: we released it to them, and my parents freaked out

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Speaker 1: and made us do it, and so we didn't even

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Speaker 1: get any money for it. You would have been how

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Speaker 1: old when you had PlayStation two dot com? I don't

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Speaker 1: even remember a teenager somewhere. I don't know, four teams,

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Speaker 1: fifteen six. I'm not sure. This letter just arrives at

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Speaker 1: your house. Your parents opened it up and they're like,

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Speaker 1: I can imagine being a parent and being like pretty

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Speaker 1: upset about Yeah, yeah, it's an official it's official letter

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Speaker 1: ahead from from Sony and UH, and they're sending us

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Speaker 1: as a demand letter. Basically was a demand letter saying

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Speaker 1: that they had the rights to that domain. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was very aggressive in its language, and so they

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Speaker 1: were they didn't have any money for like a legal

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Speaker 1: battle or anything, and they thought we were going to

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Speaker 1: get in trouble for for squatting on it. So they

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Speaker 1: didn't understand that, you know, he bought it it was ours.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, they they they they were pretty pretty serious

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Speaker 1: about making sure that we did whatever we could get

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Speaker 1: Sony Offera backs there. So when you're at college in

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Speaker 1: two thousand to two thousand four, obviously you're in a

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Speaker 1: religious school. Did you think to yourself, Hey, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to have some sort of life. I'm gonna you mentioned

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Speaker 1: you got into s c e e O. How did that happen?

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Speaker 1: So you graduate in two thousand four from Palm Beach

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Speaker 1: Atlantic and you go and take one job. Um, my

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Speaker 1: first job, well, actually my first job before I before

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Speaker 1: I got into like the internet marketing stuff directly with

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Speaker 1: like agencies, was an enterprise Rennetal and I just didn't

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Speaker 1: even know where I was going to work and they

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Speaker 1: were hiring. So you were two and you work at enterprise.

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Speaker 1: What where was the enterprise location in Palm Beach West,

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Speaker 1: Palm Beach West, Palm Beach, Florida. Was it a good

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Speaker 1: location for enterprise or was it like a because you know,

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Speaker 1: there's big differences between where you could be located better

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Speaker 1: than me. No, not a great neighborhood. It was in

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Speaker 1: a trailer. It wasn't even a structure like an actual building.

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Speaker 1: It was it was a trailer on stilts and tiny

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Speaker 1: little trailer, uh dingy little office, flickering lights, dirty carpet,

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Speaker 1: and you know you're out there washing cars wearing a

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Speaker 1: shirt and tie and slacks in the Florida heat. It's

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Speaker 1: just it was. It was pretty rough. But I met

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Speaker 1: my wife there. My wife got in a car accident,

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Speaker 1: needed a rental, comes into the office. I rent her car.

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Speaker 1: Later on that evening, she calls the office and asked

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Speaker 1: me out to dinner. So, I mean, how old? Wait,

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Speaker 1: so how old was your wife when she came in?

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Speaker 1: How old? How old you were? Twenty two? She was?

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Speaker 1: How old? I was twenty one? I graduated a year early,

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Speaker 1: so I was twenty one. She was nineteen. All right,

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Speaker 1: So what percentage of people that came into your enterprise

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Speaker 1: office were datable? Like like one in one in fifty,

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Speaker 1: Like it's gonna be a pretty low percentage, I would think,

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Speaker 1: especially again, because you're not at the good enterprise. I

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Speaker 1: always say, like, when I wrote my first book, I

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Speaker 1: got sent to a bunch of not even the good

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Speaker 1: Walmarts to do book signings. And by the way, Walmart

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Speaker 1: not an ideal place to do a book signing, but

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Speaker 1: when you're not even at the good walmart in a town,

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Speaker 1: it's a much better it's a much worse dynamic. Trust me,

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Speaker 1: I would say a very small percentage, more like one

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Speaker 1: in a hundred. I don't know. It was not It

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Speaker 1: was not a frequent thing. So when she when she

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Speaker 1: came in, it was like she grabbed everybody's attention. You know,

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Speaker 1: this other young guy that I was working with was

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Speaker 1: hitting on her. He tried to get her number because

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Speaker 1: he was going out with some friends later and he

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Speaker 1: wanted to see if she and her friends wanted to

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Speaker 1: join him, and she blew him off and took off,

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Speaker 1: And then when she called back and asked for me,

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Speaker 1: he was like, he was so upset. It was pretty

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Speaker 1: It was pretty hysterical. So what did you do on

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Speaker 1: the first date after you met at the car rental place? Um,

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Speaker 1: we went out to We went out to dinner that night.

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Speaker 1: We actually went out that night. She asked me out

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Speaker 1: that night. I said yes, So we went to dinner

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Speaker 1: that the first day that we met. Um. I think

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Speaker 1: it was this restaurant called Bruisy. Bruisy's not even open anymore.

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Speaker 1: It was in Uh, it was in a city place

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Speaker 1: in West Palm, which it's not even called city place anymore.

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Speaker 1: This is you know, this is how old we are.

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Speaker 1: The places that we used to go and hang out

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Speaker 1: are all clothes and renamed now. So um yeah, those

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Speaker 1: those things don't even exist anymore. But but yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean that was my that was my first job, though

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Speaker 1: my first job, like out of school. I was twenty one. Um,

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Speaker 1: I ended up getting into, uh, I end up getting

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Speaker 1: into like that internet marketing team because while I was

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Speaker 1: in college, I had a business online actually started. You know,

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Speaker 1: the internet always interested me, It always interested me, so

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Speaker 1: I knew there were ways to make money online selling

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Speaker 1: stuff on eBay or Craigslist or or you know, just

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Speaker 1: creating a website and finding some kind of product or

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Speaker 1: service that you can offer. And and while I was

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Speaker 1: in school, I was doing this thing where I had

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Speaker 1: all these like English as a second language students that

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Speaker 1: were struggling to to write properly in English. I was

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Speaker 1: doing editing work for them on the side and helping

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Speaker 1: them with their grammar everything. I wasn't writing their papers

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Speaker 1: for them, but I was helping edit their papers and

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Speaker 1: like fixed up their English. So feared completely towards the

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Speaker 1: self students, and I started a whole business doing that.

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Speaker 1: And so I was connecting editors, like English English speaking

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Speaker 1: and writing editors with English's second language students to help

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Speaker 1: them with their English and help them get better grades.

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Speaker 1: And so I had a website that I was marketing

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Speaker 1: for that when I was in school. And then that's

429
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:30,679
Speaker 1: kind of how I learned the ind and outs of

430
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 1: like paid search marketing on Google and Yahoo, um, and

431
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,000
Speaker 1: you know, so I had experience with that before there

432
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 1: were even degrees for that that you could that you

433
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,880
Speaker 1: could get from the university. And so when I when

434
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 1: I started applying for jobs doing that at these agencies

435
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 1: that do that do search marketing, they once they knew

436
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,159
Speaker 1: that I had some experience, They're like, oh wait, you've

437
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,359
Speaker 1: already done this on your own. You're hired. So it

438
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,120
Speaker 1: was very easy to get a job. So you basically

439
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 1: taught yourself internet marketing based on having a business like that.

440
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,639
Speaker 1: What kind of dollar for dollar return did you get

441
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 1: back in those days with Google search results? Oh? Man,

442
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 1: I mean clicks were pretty cheap early on. You know,

443
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 1: I was able to I was the middleman, right, So

444
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 1: I was linking editors together with like students basically, and

445
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 1: so I would take like a percentage and pay the editors,

446
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, I pay the editors, and I would take

447
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: some off the top. And so I was in the

448
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 1: middle of that, I was. I made like I made

449
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,879
Speaker 1: like thirty or forty tho dollars the first year I

450
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 1: was doing that, I was still a college student. I

451
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 1: was vacationing to the Bahamas, going to like Paradise Island

452
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,479
Speaker 1: and stuff, you know, like I was living it up.

453
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 1: I thought I was rich. I mean, that's a lot

454
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: of money for a college kid, right, I mean, if

455
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 1: you were making thirty or uh, and how many hours

456
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: were you having to work to do that? I was.

457
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 1: I was working quite a bit because, you know, just

458
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 1: facilitating the whole thing. I didn't have any programmers, like

459
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 1: to automate anything. It was all manual communication between people

460
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 1: and sending invoices and all this stuff. So it was

461
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: it was time consuming. I was working almost, you know,

462
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 1: like almost at a full time clip, even as I

463
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 1: was finishing school. And then when I got out of school,

464
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to go get a real job

465
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: and get some real world experience. But I had in

466
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 1: my back pocket that I knew how to do the

467
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: internet marketing stuff. So that's what kind of kicked me

468
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 1: off on that path. I started working for like in

469
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: search marketing agencies, one of them in Boca called more

470
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 1: Visibility UM, another one called Beyond Our ali uh, and started,

471
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: you know, doing that whole thing and learning the ins

472
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 1: and outs of that. And that's fascinating because you end

473
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: up people with clients who are running businesses in a

474
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: in a bunch of different industries. Like you could be

475
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 1: running campaigns for people who are selling Vegas show tickets

476
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: or steel toe shoes, or a law firm that's looking

477
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 1: for leads, or some company that organizes garages, you know,

478
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 1: And so you learn, like you learn how to run campaigns,

479
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:42,679
Speaker 1: you learn the ins and out to how much the

480
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: clicks cost and what kind of return on investment you

481
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: can get in a wide variety of industries. And with

482
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 1: that knowledge, it sets you up to be able to

483
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 1: go out there and start your own business. You know

484
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 1: where the opportunities are. No, that's fascinating. Was there, by

485
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: the way, a straw that broke the camel's back moment

486
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: as it pertained to working in the car rent holes?

487
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 1: Was there like a I'm done with this forever moment

488
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 1: for you. I don't remember if there was one specific moment.

489
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: I will tell you though, that it is pretty like

490
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: soul crushing to be outside in nine degree heat, like

491
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: washing a car while wearing a suit. I mean, you're like,

492
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: and then you and then you run inside the office

493
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: a little trailer and there's a line of people. They're

494
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: all mad because there's no cars available. You know how

495
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: Enterprise is, right, they they did a sign Feld episode

496
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: about this whole thing. But you know, you have a

497
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 1: reservation and then you show up and there's no car,

498
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, what's the point of the reservation.

499
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: It's supposed to hold a car. Well, the Enterprise model

500
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 1: was to stay rented completely out the whole time. You

501
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: wanted no cars on your lot. But then people would

502
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: walk in needing a car or having reserved car, and

503
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: you don't have any for them. So then you're scrambling

504
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: kind of barter with another agency to try to get

505
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: a car from them to bring to your people. Had

506
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: It's very stressful. The phone's ringing the whole time, and

507
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: you gotta run outside and wash another car in the heat.

508
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 1: So I was like, I did that for six months.

509
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta be

510
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: done with this. I also would imagine I I worked

511
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: in tail for a while, and um and so forward facing.

512
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: A lot of people probably listening to us worked in

513
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 1: restaurants or whatever else. But I would imagine probably the

514
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 1: anger level of car rental is one of the highest

515
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,199
Speaker 1: of all professions forward facing, right, because nobody's ever in

516
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: that good of a mood. It doesn't ever feel like

517
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: you get the car that you're expecting to get. The

518
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: line always takes longer than you anticipate, there's some issue

519
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 1: with the car. When you get in, you always gotta

520
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: worry about refueling it. Like I find the whole car

521
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: rental process to be frankly pretty awful. Yeah. Well, and

522
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: then as a as a guy that's renting you the car,

523
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: like there's pressure on you to try to sell the damage,

524
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: waiver the personal injury. Of course, that's a great point.

525
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,959
Speaker 1: All these upsells. You know, you want to sell them

526
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 1: the prepaid gas, you want to sell them the coverage.

527
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 1: And if you don't hit certain sales metrics, you know

528
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 1: you you you you don't, you don't excel, you don't

529
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: get you don't rank up. You don't get to be

530
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: an assistant branch manager and then a branch manager and

531
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: then an area manager. So in order to work your

532
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: way up, you've got to be an outstand salesperson. So

533
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: you're on top of people being miserable for all those

534
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: reasons you just mentioned, you're also trying to sell them stuff. Yeah.

535
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: And by the way, I also mentioned that you have

536
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: kids now, right, you have too boys, two boys ye

537
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: eight and six. Yeah. So the only it's bad enough

538
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: when you're single and you're trying to get a rental

539
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: car or you're married and it's just you and your wife.

540
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: But getting a car seat, first of all, to have

541
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: the car seat be there, secondly getting it installed in

542
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: a rental car, all of this is just a miserable process, right,

543
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: Like it gets worse when you have to have the

544
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: rental car for the kids and you try and reserve

545
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: the car seat and then it's not there, and then

546
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 1: your wife blames you for that, and then I just

547
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: I think it's becoming quite clear that I hate the

548
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 1: rental car process. Basically I would rather uber everywhere. Yeah,

549
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: And adding to that is usually like you're getting a

550
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: rental car for your family when you're on a trip somewhere,

551
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: maybe you're somewhere cold and it's snowing, and you're standing

552
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: outside preasing waiting for them to get that. Yeah, just

553
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: to add all that, that's exactly right. All right, So

554
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: you have this knowledge with s e O, how long

555
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: do you work in sort of the S e O

556
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,959
Speaker 1: field for? For several years? I mean for probably like

557
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: six seven years something like that. So I ended up

558
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: branching out to do that on my own too, And

559
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 1: I had a bunch of clients, and I was I

560
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: was doing pretty well with that. But you know, when

561
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 1: you have when you have a bunch of client accounts

562
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: that you're managing your it's like having a bunch of bosses.

563
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: You work for each of your clients. And um, and

564
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: I was, for whatever reason the way that I was wired,

565
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: I was I never really wanted to be working for

566
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: somebody else. I wanted to be doing things on my

567
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: own terms, working for myself. And so even though it

568
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: was my own business, having clients, felt like I was

569
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: working for somebody else all the time. Um, I always

570
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: had to do what they wanted me to do, and

571
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: they were always waiting on me for something, and and

572
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 1: uh and I wanted to do things more on my term,

573
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: and so I was always looking for an out from there.

574
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: So at some point I decided, you know, I'd rather

575
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: just strike out on my own entirely and run my

576
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: own businesses that aren't client based businesses. You know, um

577
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: things that I can I can automate and offer services online,

578
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: uh and not have to deal with clients. And and

579
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 1: I knew how to do that, just because I don't

580
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: have to spent so many years in the internet marketing world.

581
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: So um, you know, eventually I struck out to do that.

582
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: My brother and I teamed up. He's my brother was

583
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: an engineer, aeronautical engineer, but had a knack for like

584
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: computer programming and web development stuff. And so I told him, look,

585
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: I've got some ideas. If you can build some things,

586
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: I can market them and we'll see if they do well,

587
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: and if they do, we quit our jobs and we'll

588
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: do this whole time. He said sure, and uh, the

589
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: next thing, you know, we were out on our own

590
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: all right. So were you active on social media? You

591
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: said you first noticed I think the Babylon be online yourself,

592
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: and we're interested in it as a business opportunity. Were

593
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: you active in any other media based entities. Prior to

594
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: noticing the Babylon b No, I had never And this

595
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: is the thing, this is why when I was interested

596
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: in investing in the B I really just wanted to

597
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: invest in it. I did not want to buy it

598
00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: because they didn't know the first thing about running a

599
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 1: meet a site. Like I knew how to like sell products,

600
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: generate leads, turned clicks into cash, you know, like I

601
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: knew how to I knew how to monetize websites, but

602
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to monetize like a media site.

603
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: That's just like where you're not selling a product, you're

604
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: just publishing articles. I didn't know the first thing about

605
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: running a media site. So um, I was really just

606
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: interested in investing in it and letting the guy who

607
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,959
Speaker 1: knows what he's doing run it and produce the content

608
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: and manage all of that. Um. But he was more

609
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: interested in selling it. In fact, he was talking to

610
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: the Daily Wire at the time back in and they

611
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: had worked out a deal and they were about to

612
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: sign on the dotted line, and then Daily Wire backed out.

613
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: Facebook had changed their algorithm and around that time, and

614
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: they got kind of cold feet about whether or not.

615
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: They wanted to be, you know, running another property that

616
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: was really almost entirely dependent on Facebook for traffic and everything.

617
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: So when they backed out, Adam called me back and said, hey,

618
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: if you're still interested, I don't I don't want an investor.

619
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: I want to sell it. So if you want to

620
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: have a serious talk about buying it, you know, fly

621
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: to Michigan and let's meet and let's talk about it.

622
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: So so that's when I flew up there to meet him. So,

623
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: so you buy the company in two tho. Um, how

624
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: what was the size of the company. How nervous were

625
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: you to be buying it? Walked me through the decision

626
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: by which you come to purchase the company and enter

627
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: the media business. Well, it wasn't it wasn't super expensive,

628
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: It wasn't millions of dollars. So I didn't feel like

629
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: I was taking a huge financial risk. Um, but I was.

630
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: I was a little nervous about taking on a property

631
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: that I didn't know how to manage. It was going

632
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: to be a learning curve and I had a very

633
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: full plate doing. You know, we're running a bunch of

634
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: several other online businesses and so um. You know this

635
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: idea that I would be taking on something that it

636
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: was foreign to me. Was a little bit nerve wracking. Um.

637
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: But the upside, the exciting part about it was it

638
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: was fun. It was satire. It was what I was

639
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: doing when I was in college and getting in trouble.

640
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: I saw the opportunity to have all kinds of fun

641
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: and getting all kinds of new trouble. And he was

642
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: worried about this whole fight with censorship and Facebook kicking

643
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: him off for for misinformation or whatever. They were starting

644
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: to fact check around that time, and I welcomed that fight.

645
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to be on the suntlines

646
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: of that fight. That that sounds like fun. Let him

647
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: try to check me off, you know, Let's let's take

648
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: him to court. Let's fight that battle. Let's fight for

649
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: free speech. So I thought, as this really exciting thing,

650
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: and he was like, I want to pull the ripcord

651
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: and get out. So um, and ended up working out.

652
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: We when we sat down and talked, you know, we

653
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: really liked each other. We got along really well, um,

654
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: and it sounded like I could really bring something to it.

655
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: So um, you know, I was excited about the opportunity

656
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: to get involved with something that would be like really fun,

657
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: you know, rather than just a business where you're selling

658
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: Like I mean, we were selling all kinds of stuff

659
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: we're selling like insulated water bottles and slutting sunglasses and

660
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: and iPhone bumpers and stuff like that. But that wasn't

661
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: like exciting to me. It wasn't fun. I didn't feel

662
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: like it was impactful and meaningful. But the bee had

663
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: something special to be had. It was speaking truth. The

664
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: culture was dealing with the preservation of freedom and the

665
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: restoration of sanity, and in all of that through humor.

666
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: And that was just right at my alley. All right,

667
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to that in a second. What was

668
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: the craziest thing you sold that you couldn't believe there

669
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: was as much demand for it? Like, in other words,

670
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: if you had to go back and only sell one product,

671
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: what would it be and or what surprised you the

672
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: most that people were willing to buy? Uh? You know, honestly,

673
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: probably probably floated Like I don't know, maybe it's it's

674
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: not it's not that weird of a product in your mind,

675
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: but I had no idea all the demand that there

676
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: was for floating sunglasses. Did you know that was even

677
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,959
Speaker 1: a thing. I didn't even sunglasses were a thing. This

678
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: is like, so if they fall off your face, they

679
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: don't sink. Yeah, they thought. Yeah. I always thought if

680
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: you lose your sunglasses and the water you lost them,

681
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: they're gone. They think for the bottom. You know, I

682
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: didn't realize there was even the things such as floating sunglasses.

683
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: But I actually am now thinking I didn't know they existed,

684
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: But now I'm like, you know what, floating sunglasses does

685
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: make a lot of sense. So you guys would sell

686
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: tons of floating sunglasses. Yeah, we had a business called

687
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: waves Gear and uh and yeah, we would sell microfiber

688
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: towels and water bottles, all kind of like beach stuff

689
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: and uh and floating sunglasses was the top seller. Um,

690
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: it was was. It was big on Amazon. Um. We

691
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: ended up transitioning away from that and and uh and

692
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: and moving on to other things. But for quite some

693
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: time before there was a lot more competition. Um, that's

694
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: pretty pretty profitable business. Um. How did you, by the way,

695
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: get your stuff shipped? So the reason why I'm asking is,

696
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: we obviously have sold a lot of out kick gear

697
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: over the years, and I before I started selling gear,

698
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: I had no idea how complicated shipping was, how expensive

699
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: it was, how often things got lost, how often things

700
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: went awry. People think, oh, I'm just gonna sell something

701
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: on the internet, and they don't really work through all

702
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: of the complexities associated with it. Uh, that is pretty overwhelming, right,

703
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: So you have to learn. I mean, like you're making

704
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,719
Speaker 1: it sound fairly simple, right, but there's actually a lot

705
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: of complexities involved in selling product on the internet. It

706
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: depends on how much margin you want, how much work

707
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: you want to put it. I mean, there's so many

708
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: opportunities to do, like drop shipping stuff, you can print

709
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: on demand stuff. Now there's there's companies that have made

710
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: it so easy to just like put your design on

711
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: a T shirt and they print it for you on

712
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: demand and ship it all. And you have to charge

713
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: quite a bit for it because it costs so much

714
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: to have them do all that for you. Um. But

715
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: you know, if you if you're able to pass some

716
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: of that costs onto the consumer, you can still make

717
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: a little bit of a margin on it and you

718
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: don't have to handle any of that stuff, which is

719
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: pretty cool. Um. But we had a warehouse, I mean

720
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: we ran the operation out of Actually I partnered with

721
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: a guy out Utah that had a warehouse, uh and

722
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: and and did some distribution and fulfillment stuff. And so

723
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: we worked together on on that whole process and he

724
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: and he managed that whole thing. So we would we

725
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: would bring in the shipments and and palates and stock

726
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: and store them in the warehouse and he would handle

727
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: all the fulfillment and and ship everything out. And so

728
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: we had a system. We had a system. But but

729
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: for for the B right now, we do a lot

730
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: of prinn demand stuff. Um. We take advantage of a

731
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: lot of that. But we are we are transitioning now

732
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: that we're doing bigger volume. We're growing. There's a lot

733
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 1: more volume. We can make a lot more money if

734
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: we actually handle a lot of the fulfillment stuff ourselves.

735
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: Um or you know, at least not do it print

736
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: on demand, but by it in bulk at lower rage.

737
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: All right. So I don't remember when I first became

738
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: aware of the Babylon B. I'm obviously hyper online. That's

739
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: what I have to do. I was running out kicks,

740
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: so I understand the media space, developing audience, all of

741
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 1: those different things. What surprised you the most about running

742
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: a media business that you didn't anticipate before you did,

743
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: And when did you start to feel Maybe the answer

744
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: is you still don't, but when did you start to feel? Okay,

745
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 1: I'm comfortable. I kind of understand the business aspects associated

746
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: with running a site like the Babylon b Well. I

747
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: mean when I first took it over, you you asked

748
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,439
Speaker 1: some questions earlier that didn't even answer. Uh, I guess

749
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 1: I got distractive with other things, but like how big

750
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: is the opera? How big was the operation? Who was involved?

751
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: I mean when I when I took it over, this

752
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: was it. This was a one and a half man show.

753
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: I mean it was Adam and in a one part

754
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: time writer. That's it. It was two guys and uh

755
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: and the part time guy was submitting some ideas and

756
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: Adam was running the site. And they had some Google

757
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: ads on their that was. That was all they did

758
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: for monetization, UM and some some T shirt sales through

759
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 1: t spring that they were doing here and there, But

760
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: it wasn't really generating a lot of revenue. Um. There

761
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: wasn't really a model in place for that. So all

762
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: of it was a learning curve for me. I had

763
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: to figure out, you know, how do we how do

764
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: we maximize our RPM, our revenue per thousand impressions, and

765
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: actually turn us into a business, and then you know,

766
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: obviously hiring talent, trying to find writers and all of that.

767
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 1: So we did. We went through a bunch of stuff,

768
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: we figured out, we we launched the store, so now

769
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: we have merchandise, We started publishing books, we launched a

770
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: subscription platform. All of this Clay was geared towards making

771
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: sure we had diversification of revenue sources in the event

772
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: that we got the platforms. We were working on the

773
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: whole potential d platforming problem right from the beginning, because

774
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: we knew that we had all our eggs and Facebook's

775
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: basket to drive traffic, and all our eggs and Google's

776
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: basket to generate revenue. Either one of them shut us

777
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 1: off at any time and we have to close our doors,

778
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: there's nothing we can do. So we wanted to make

779
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: sure that we had multiple traffic sources and multiple streams

780
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: of revenue coming in just to diversify and keep the

781
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: business on its feet in the event of those d

782
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: platforming events. So um, that was that was what I

783
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: was trying to figure out from the beginning, and all

784
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: of it was you know, kind of a learning curve

785
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: since I've never never run a media set before. But um,

786
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,959
Speaker 1: we've got we've got our feet under this now, I think.

787
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, the Twitter thing that just happened

788
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,439
Speaker 1: is a big deal, but it's not going to sink

789
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: us because of all that effort we put in diverse fight. Okay.

790
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: So one of the things that I noticed, and I

791
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: testified under oath about this, so this is no great surprise,

792
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,760
Speaker 1: was Facebook could throw off tremendous amounts of traffic. Social

793
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: media could in general, but if you did something to

794
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: upset the gatekeepers, almost immediately, they could flip a switch

795
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: and your traffic would disappear. I imagine that didn't happen

796
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: very often to you in the selling the floating sunglasses business.

797
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: It was pretty pretty hard. I would imagine. Maybe I'm

798
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: wrong to super offend the floating sun girl. I although

799
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: I guess Amazon could change their dynamics in terms of

800
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: costs and things like that. When was the first time

801
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: you realize the power of the big tech platforms in

802
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: terms of their ability to allow you to have traffic

803
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 1: or disallow you to have traffic? Um, probably the first

804
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: time was when we had you know, like even before

805
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: all of the media site stuff, like, you know, have

806
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: just having issues where you know, Google would suspend your

807
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: ads for policy violation and you've got to try to

808
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: figure out why and try to appeal and get back on,

809
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: and you would just all of a sudden your traffic

810
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: would dry up. Well, well you're in the middle of

811
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: dealing with that, and you realize it's like you're completely

812
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: at Google's mercy. You cannot drive traffic. You know the

813
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: way Google, Google changed everything when it came to advertising.

814
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: You know, it used to be that you know, there

815
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: was this big concern where you know, Walmart or Barnes

816
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 1: and Noble would come into a town and all the

817
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: small businesses would suffer because you have these big you know,

818
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: these big brick and mortars that offered so many products,

819
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: they dominated, and no one could could generate any business

820
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: anymore in that area. Well, the Internet, to some extent,

821
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 1: put you know, fix that problem, or at least address

822
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: part of that problem by making it possible to have

823
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 1: small businesses put your ads right next to the big companies,

824
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: the big brands, and be competitive with them. You know,

825
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: like we ran like in the self help legal filing space,

826
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: we ran ads right next to legal zoom, and people

827
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: clicked on our ads just as much as they clicked

828
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: on legal zooms ads. And so you can put your

829
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: ads right there next to them. But then, but then

830
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: that can all just go away if if Google decides

831
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: that one of your ads violates the policy, you know,

832
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 1: they can suspend your account and then all of a

833
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 1: sudden you're dead in the water and you can't generate

834
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: any traffic anymore. And that can't happen with a brick

835
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: and mortar. Your your store is still there. You know,

836
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: no one's shutting your store down, So you know that

837
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 1: was dealing with issues like that make it feel all

838
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: very uncertain and and always like you know, you need

839
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: to have you need to have multiple things going at

840
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: all times, because if any one thing topples, you know,

841
00:38:58,680 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: you don't you want to you don't want to be

842
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: in a situation where all your eggs in one basket. Um.

843
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: So I learned very early on that the importance of

844
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: making sure that you know you've got you've got multiple

845
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: things going on so that you're not you're not you're

846
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: not in such a precarious position. I think what was

847
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: the yeah with the with the B. You know, it's

848
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: when we first started getting back checked and we first

849
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: started getting threatened with demonetization and uh in our platform

850
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: being removed, like basically saying, look, we will we will

851
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: demonetize or de platform you if we feel it's necessary

852
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: if you continue to share fake news. Um, you know,

853
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: those kinds of threats coming from the social media, there's

854
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: no alternative for site like ours to get traffics on,

855
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: especially at that time when they hadn't even created a

856
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: lot of these like uh you know, third tier kind

857
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: of social networks. So one of the challenges that you

858
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: have and you've dealt with. And I'm curious how this

859
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: is played out. And we're talking with Seth Dylan, he

860
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: is the owner of the Babylon B. We are talking

861
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: on wins and losses I of course, and Clay Travis,

862
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: you're a satirical site and you are constantly poking fun

863
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,240
Speaker 1: at a variety of different issues. Yet many people don't

864
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: seem to understand the concept of you being a satirical site.

865
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: And I know this is by the way, not just

866
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: unique to you. The Onion back in the day used

867
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: to often be considered a serious news site as well.

868
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: Sometimes in the stories that they were sharing. How often

869
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 1: are you getting caught up in those kind of disputes

870
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 1: And do you think people use it as an excuse

871
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: because of your bent, Like there's this idea that Republicans

872
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: can't be funny, that a conservative site could not be funny,

873
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: and you guys fly in the face of that and

874
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: are pretty consistently hysterical at ridiculing many of the issues

875
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: that are out there. Well, it's funny, I'll tell you this.

876
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: I don't think much of it is honest. I think

877
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 1: a lot of it is disingtenuous. It's an effort to

878
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: silence and suppress us by pretending that we're something that

879
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: they know that we're not. You know, like when when

880
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 1: The New York Times calls us a far right misinformation

881
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 1: site that traffics and misinformation under the guise of satire,

882
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: and those are exact words when they do that. They

883
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: know what they're doing. You know, they are in fact

884
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: using misinformation to smear us as being a source of it.

885
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: And it's very deliberate. It's it's conniving, it's it's wrong.

886
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: I mean, they're not they're not laboring under they're not

887
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: they're not confused about who we are and what we do.

888
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's obvious that we're actually a satirical publication.

889
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: They just they just don't like the fact that we're effective,

890
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: and so they find these ways, these creative ways to

891
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 1: come after you, and so they pretend to be really

892
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: bothered by it. Oh, your jokes are too believable. Too

893
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 1: many people think that your satire is true. You must

894
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: have some ill motives. You must be trying to uh

895
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: confuse people and spread disinformation, you know, um, and it's

896
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: it's just absurd. I mean when you think, when you

897
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: really think about it's like satire needs to have an

898
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: element of truth to it in order for the joke

899
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: to land, in order for the joke to make sense,

900
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: the point that you're making. All that satire does is

901
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: exaggerate the truth to make its points. And so if

902
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 1: you're not if you're not closely writing on the back

903
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 1: of the truth, your jokes aren't gonna land. And this

904
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: idea of this expectation that our jokes should be so

905
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: divorced from reality that no one could possibly believe they

906
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: were true, is to say that we're supposed to be

907
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: doing something other than satire altogether, you know, like We're

908
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 1: supposed to just be making absurd, silly statements that that

909
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 1: that are just dumb and have no point. Um, And

910
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: that's just not how satire works, and they know that,

911
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: but it's not. It's one of the arguments that they

912
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: used to try to shut us down, along with you know,

913
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: the hate speech, to punching down and all of that nonsense.

914
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: So you got your account locked recently on Twitter, and

915
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to that in a moment. The first

916
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 1: thing I want to say is, so you took over

917
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 1: in Obviously election was massive for you guys. When was

918
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: the first time that you felt, hey, we're having a

919
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 1: significant influence at least in the online discourse and we've

920
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 1: got a lot of fans out there. Was there a

921
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: moment in time or some body that responded and you thought, oh, wow,

922
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: we're really having an impact. Do you recall having a

923
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: moment like that, Uh, when we started to get a

924
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: lot of media attention. Um, I think that was one thing,

925
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: you know, that was one of the unexpected things that

926
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: I never really thought I would be doing, is like

927
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: going on uh, you know, Shannon Bream and Tucker Carlson

928
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: and whatever and talking about about being fact checked and

929
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: being labeled hate speech and all these things. You know.

930
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: The media attention was one thing where it was clear

931
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: that that people were paying attention to us and what

932
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: was happening to us and how we were being characterized

933
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: or mischaracterized. Um. But then there was also this stuff

934
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 1: like uh, congressmen and women, the President of the United

935
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: States retweeting our stuff, engaging with it, you know, from

936
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: Ted Cruise to Donald Trump or whoever it is, Elon

937
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 1: musk um with with people with massive audiences, uh, you know,

938
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: sharing our stuff. It was clear that we were starting

939
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: to kind of break out beyond where we were. Where

940
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: we started out as this kind of like niche Christian

941
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: community site that was reaching you know, doing a lot

942
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: of like church humor and jokes about worship pastor skinny

943
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 1: jeans and stuff like that. Um. Going beyond that's actually

944
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: reaching a broader community and the culture at large and

945
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: being engaged in this much broader discussion. UM. I think

946
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: I think some of those things were kind of obviously

947
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: the telling factors that we were And I'm obviously you know,

948
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: our our traffic was exploding and our audience was growing

949
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: really quickly too, So it was bearing out in the

950
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: metrics as well. What what's the best month you've ever

951
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 1: had in the history of the Babylon b uh. Honestly, well,

952
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 1: which tend which metric you look at? If you want

953
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: to go strictly on revenue, March of March two because

954
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: of the Twitter attention and banning or locking of your account,

955
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: I probably should say that also then drove a lot

956
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: of people probably to want to spend money with you, right,

957
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: so they come on, they sign up or your platform

958
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 1: because they want to support what you're doing and basically

959
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: stick up a middle finger or thumb in the eye.

960
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: However you want to convey that towards the big tech

961
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: companies for what they're doing to you, right, Yes, we

962
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: get we get a lot of support, and we ask

963
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: for it. You know, it's a situation where it's a

964
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: very it's a very real threat to the business these

965
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: these big tech companies and uh and there you know

966
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: their heavy handed censorship um and their uneven enforcement of

967
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: their of their policies and there and their biased policies

968
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: themselves that have their own ideology baked into it that

969
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: you have to agree with their ideology in order to

970
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: even be compliant with their policies. Um, you know, that's

971
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 1: that that puts us in a position where when when

972
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: something like this happens, you know, we have to appeal

973
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,919
Speaker 1: to our audience and say, hey, look we need your support. So, um, yeah,

974
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: we know we will have these spikes and growth, punctuated

975
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: spikes and growth that that go along with some of

976
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: these attacks on on the site. And it's a very

977
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: fortunate thing that we get that we get a response.

978
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: You know, we have an audience that really loves us,

979
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: that really values the content that we're putting out there.

980
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: They don't want to see us go away because Facebook

981
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 1: and Twitter decide that we're too dangerous, were too hateful

982
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 1: for you to see our content. Um. So we're really

983
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: thankful to our audience. Our readers are subscribers or listeners

984
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 1: who who have propped us up and have decided that

985
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: they're going to come alongside us and make sure that

986
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: we stick around no matter who tries to show us up.

987
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: What's the most successful headline that you guys have ever had,

988
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: do you know? Uh, most successful in terms of shares.

989
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: There's a couple that come to mind. There's one about

990
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: how motorcyclist identifies as a bicyclist instead of world record. Um.

991
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: That one did like probably like six or seven million

992
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: shares something like that. Um. There's been a few that

993
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: just attracted a ton of media attention, like some silly ones,

994
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: like it's not the best headline ever, but we did

995
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: we were we were a joke about how had purchased

996
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: an industrial sized washing machine to spin the news and

997
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 1: before publishing it, and it's just a silly a joke.

998
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: It's like ridiculous, it's not believable or anything. But it

999
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 1: got fact checked and reading false by snops and so

1000
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: we end u getting all this media attention because because

1001
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: we're like fighting for our lives to stay on Facebook

1002
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: because snokes is reading our jokes fault. Um. So you know,

1003
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: there's it depends on how you how you want to

1004
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 1: try to judge it in terms of like how monumental

1005
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: was it in our history? You know, there's a few

1006
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: that really stand out that weren't necessarily our funniest for

1007
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: most shared headlines. So okay, let's go into what happens

1008
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: with Twitter had you had the Babylon be account locked

1009
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: before what we're what's your deal? And by the way,

1010
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: people may be listening to this months from now, years

1011
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: from now, even we're talking in early April of two.

1012
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: Right now, the Babylon b account is locked because you

1013
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: won't take down a tweet, which I'll get to in

1014
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 1: a sect. But had your account been locked before this occurred?

1015
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: There was one time when our account got suspended, like

1016
00:47:54,840 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: entirely suspended. What was that suspended for? Well, a mistake,

1017
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: of course, right, It's always a mistake. Um. We were suspended,

1018
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 1: um and and we asked Twitter why um and because

1019
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: we didn't even get an answer. Just one day we

1020
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: woke up and the account was suspended um and their explanation.

1021
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 1: They actually did apologize and reinstate the account a couple

1022
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: of days later, after we got a ton of media

1023
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: attention going out there talking about how Twitter had just

1024
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 1: suspended us for no apparent reason. Um and it was

1025
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: like it was a mistake. They said there was some

1026
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: spam crackdown that they were doing, and our account got

1027
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,879
Speaker 1: flagged as being like a bot or something like that

1028
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: and was taken down by in error. So but that

1029
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: was the only time that we ever really got fully suspended,

1030
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: and they apologized that it was an error and we

1031
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 1: got back on. But they only did that after we

1032
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: made a ton of noise in the media and we're

1033
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: going all over talking on on news shows and whoever

1034
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: would have us to talk about how Twitter had just

1035
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 1: suspended us out of nowhere and then all of a sudden,

1036
00:48:55,000 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 1: they're sorry and they made a mistake and now out

1037
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: of your account right now, What has what occurred? What

1038
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: has happened, and what is the future as you know

1039
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: it right now likely to look like for people who

1040
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: don't know, the bablon b account was suspended and or

1041
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: locked however you want to classify it for tweeting out one.

1042
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: So there was a there was an article published in

1043
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 1: USA Today naming Rachel Levine a transgender Health Department official, UM,

1044
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: naming Rachel Levine one of their Women of the Year.

1045
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 1: They had nominated several women for Women of the Year,

1046
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 1: and Rachel Levine was named as one of them. UM.

1047
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: And you know, we we did a parody version of

1048
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: that where we named Rachel Levine as the babble on b.

1049
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 1: The babble Wobe picked Rachel Levin as our pick for

1050
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: Man of the Year. So it was us like pushing

1051
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 1: back on this idea that Rachel Levine is really a

1052
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: woman and that runs a foul of Twitter tapeful conduct

1053
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 1: policy because it involves miss gendering, according to them. Now,

1054
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 1: we disagree that it involves miss gendering. I think it's

1055
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: mis gendering. You call Rachel Lavine a woman. Um, but

1056
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: they think it's mis gendering the other way. And so

1057
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: they have this policy, this hateful conduct policy that has

1058
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: their their progressive gender ideology baked into it. Uh, And

1059
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: they want us to delete the tweet and affirm that

1060
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: we did violate this policy and and that we did

1061
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 1: engage in hateful conduct and in lessen. Until we do that,

1062
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: we can't unlock the account. And to me, it's just crazy.

1063
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, if you don't want this content on

1064
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 1: your platform, you can take it down. If you want

1065
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: to delete it, delete our tweet for us. You have

1066
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 1: that power, you have that right. Um, take it down

1067
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: and tell us that you think we engage in hateful conduct,

1068
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: but don't make us delete it and admit that we

1069
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,799
Speaker 1: engage in hateful conduct when we don't think that we did.

1070
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 1: So there it's basically they're pretty in a situation where

1071
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,760
Speaker 1: they want us to bend the knee, kiss the ring, whatever,

1072
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: and we're like, no, we're not we're not doing that.

1073
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,240
Speaker 1: We disagree that this is hateful conduct in the first place.

1074
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: You know, we disagree with the ideology that you've baked

1075
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: into your terms of service. So you know, it's one

1076
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: of these situations where we're just at this stalemate. So

1077
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 1: how does this resolve itself? Then? Yeah, you're at you're

1078
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 1: at a Yeah, that's exactly right, You're at a standoff.

1079
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:14,439
Speaker 1: So how does this resolve itself? In your opinion? And

1080
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: does Elon Musk having bought nine two of Twitter, does

1081
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: that have any impact in the way that they adjust

1082
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 1: their editorial standards? Like, what do you anticipate might happen

1083
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 1: right now going forward? I don't know. I mean, I

1084
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 1: wasn't expecting that there might be a possible solution to

1085
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: this that involves someone like Elon Musk getting involved. You know, Initially,

1086
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: my whole thinking was one day, Uh, Congress is going

1087
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 1: to have to deal with this problem. The courts are

1088
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: going to have to do with this problem. There's been

1089
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: so much talk about Section to thirty and the rights

1090
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: that these companies have versus the rights of the people

1091
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: to speak and and and be heard, And where do

1092
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: you where do you draw these lines and how do

1093
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 1: we work all this out. Well, something's got to be

1094
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 1: done here, because, as musknoted himself on Twitter before this

1095
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: was all announced, he was saying, you know, Twitter is

1096
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 1: like the de facto town square at this point. This

1097
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: is where the vast majority of public discourse happens. It's

1098
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,320
Speaker 1: the vast majority of discourse between citizens, but also between

1099
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: government officials and private citizens. And so you know, when

1100
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: you have platforms like that cracking down hard on certain

1101
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 1: views and certain people and allowing all kinds of other

1102
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: misinformation and hate speech to be you know, proliferate and

1103
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: be pervasive on the platform that is that they approve of,

1104
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:35,879
Speaker 1: you end up with a really unbalanced, uh situation. That's

1105
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: not good for discourse, and it's not good for democracy,

1106
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: it's not good for society. Must cares about that very deeply.

1107
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: I love that he cares about that deeply. You know,

1108
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: he really does want to preserve freedom and make sure

1109
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: that that Twitter remains a free platform for pre expression, which,

1110
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 1: by the way, they have a ringing tribute to in

1111
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: their terms of service. Their mission statement is that they're

1112
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 1: all about free expression and representing a diverse range of

1113
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 1: perspectives on their platform. Um, but you know, what they

1114
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: give with one hand, they take away with the other

1115
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 1: by having these policies that that have their ideology backed

1116
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: into it, and you have to conform with it or

1117
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: else you can't be on a platform. So I always

1118
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: expected that there would hopefully one day be some solution

1119
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: that either comes from the courts or from Congress to

1120
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: deal with this problem, or maybe even like at at

1121
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 1: the state level, some of these laws at the state

1122
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: level of being passed to prevent these companies from engaging

1123
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 1: in viewpoint discrimination. You know, maybe maybe the answer is

1124
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 1: we make uh we we amend the Civil Rights Act

1125
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,799
Speaker 1: to say that political belief is a protected class and

1126
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 1: you can't discriminate on that basis, you know, because you

1127
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:36,240
Speaker 1: can't discriminate based on race or gender or religion or whatever.

1128
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,720
Speaker 1: Why not make political belief one of those things that's protected.

1129
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: Or maybe we just make it unlawful for these companies

1130
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: because they're so large. You know, if you have more

1131
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 1: than fifty million daily active users, you can't engage in

1132
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: viewpoint discrimination. You know. Maybe those are the answers. I

1133
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: don't know, but must keep getting involved. Is very interesting

1134
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: because his commitment is to free speech, and he seems

1135
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: to be wanting to get influential by getting on the board.

1136
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: I have no idea what will actually resulting down the road,

1137
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: or whether or not he'll be able to exert any

1138
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 1: influence over them. I know that they're going to be

1139
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: very resistant internally at that company. I mean, you can

1140
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 1: see it already. You've seen some of the reactions to

1141
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: his appointments to board. So I'm really fascinated. This is,

1142
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,839
Speaker 1: you know, me putting on my lawyer hat and analyzing this.

1143
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: Have you thought about filing a lawsuit? One question? And

1144
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: second part of that question, you can clearly show damages

1145
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: because I know based on the the impact that that

1146
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: has had on out Kicks business. When suddenly you weren't

1147
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: able to share headlines and articles from the Babylon B,

1148
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure that your website traffic goes down, which creates

1149
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: a substantial impact on your overall revenue. Now you mentioned

1150
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: people can respond to that by going to Babylon B

1151
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: and spending money that they might not have spent otherwise

1152
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: to support your fight. But over time, the impact of Twitter,

1153
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 1: I imagine on your traffic was substantial. Have you thought

1154
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 1: about a loss too, And what kind of damages from

1155
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 1: a traffic perspective which leads to dollars are you seeing

1156
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: in your business. I'd take it beyond traffic too. I

1157
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: mean when you talk about the damage of being removed

1158
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:15,879
Speaker 1: from from public discourse, I mean just being sidelined from

1159
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:18,720
Speaker 1: the conversation if you want, if you want your brand

1160
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:20,839
Speaker 1: to be relevant, if you you know, like when we're

1161
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 1: out there, we're talking about you must you know, Elon

1162
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: must interacts with our content on a regular basis. There's

1163
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: lots of people with very large following to interact with

1164
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: our content, who shared, who talked about it. If we're

1165
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: sidelined and remove from that conversation, we become less and

1166
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: less relevant every day. Um, you almost become forgotten when

1167
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: you're not out there where the conversation is happening. So

1168
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: there's there's a cost that's not even like monetary that

1169
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: you can't quantify. It's very difficult to quantify um. But

1170
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 1: then yes, again, the traffic that you lose um over

1171
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: the course of time, all the media attention and and

1172
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: the people signing up and subscribing and getting really fired up.

1173
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: That last for a matter of days, and then it

1174
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 1: subsides and it goes away and life goes back to normal.

1175
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 1: People get mad about other things and get worked up

1176
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 1: about other things and stop thinking about you, and the

1177
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 1: traffic is still gone. The problem still remains. You're still

1178
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 1: off the platform. And so long term, you're right, it does.

1179
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: It does have an effect in terms of like an

1180
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: actual lawsuit, like what you would sue them for. That's

1181
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: very difficult. You know. There have been suits that there

1182
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: have been challenges that have been brought that try to

1183
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: argue that you know, these companies, uh, you know are

1184
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:31,359
Speaker 1: for example, um, the modern public square, um, and that

1185
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: you have a right to be there whatever, and some

1186
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: of these illegal efforts that people have launched against them

1187
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 1: have failed spectacularly in the courts. UM. And you know,

1188
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: there's been some a lot of commentary on that. Justice

1189
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: Thomas on the Supreme Court weighed in recently UM to

1190
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: talk about how, UM, the section to thirty immunity that

1191
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: these companies have been have been given by the lower

1192
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: courts where they it's been interpreted so extravagantly to basically

1193
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 1: they can moderate however they want to, and whether the

1194
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: tension was really for them to be able to do that, Um,

1195
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 1: is in question, and maybe there is an answer to

1196
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 1: that by applying like common terrier doctrine. You know, where

1197
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: they're based. These companies, these they're trying to have their

1198
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: taking eat it too, These these big tech companies, they

1199
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 1: want to be they want to be able to um

1200
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 1: uh basically have complete immunity for what's on their platform

1201
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 1: by saying, we're just a conduit. We're just a conduit.

1202
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: We're not responsible for whatever said here. But then when

1203
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: there's a message that they don't like, they say, oh,

1204
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: we don't want to be the speaker of that message.

1205
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: We want to we don't want your we don't want

1206
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: that to be our voice. Well, it's not your voice.

1207
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 1: You're just a conduit. It's not your speech. Are you

1208
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 1: the speaker or aren't you the speaker? You know, if

1209
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: you treat them like common terriers and apply that kind

1210
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: of regulatory uh, you know, restrictions on them that common

1211
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 1: carriers have, there's there's precedent for that happening without it

1212
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: being a First Amendment issue, where these companies don't have

1213
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 1: speech rights anymore. You know, they can still say whatever

1214
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: they want, there's just limits on how much they can

1215
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 1: restrict other people's right to say what they want because

1216
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: they're just conduits for other people's information and speech. So

1217
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,919
Speaker 1: there's an interesting conversation to be had there. I think

1218
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: that before we could actually bring an action, the law

1219
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: would need to be changed to be more favorable to us,

1220
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: or you know, the courts are gonna have to weigh

1221
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 1: in on us and say, up to this point, it's

1222
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 1: been they've gotten it wrong, it's been interpreted incorrectly. Seth,

1223
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 1: what do you wish The last couple of questions for

1224
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: you here, what do you wish you had known about

1225
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 1: the media business that you know now that you didn't

1226
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 1: know when you started? Because this is wins and losses.

1227
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: We talk with a large audience out there about the

1228
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: wins and losses of everyday life. It can be in sports,

1229
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: it can be in politics, it can be in business.

1230
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 1: What do you wish you had known that you didn't

1231
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: know about the media business? What do you wish you

1232
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: maybe had changed? As everybody who runs a business learns

1233
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: and makes mistakes along the way, what would you say

1234
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: to people out there listening in that respect? Such a

1235
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: good question. Um, I haven't had time to give that

1236
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: a lot of thought, but I mean, just off the

1237
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: top of my head. Uh, you know, I didn't know

1238
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: going into all this, And maybe it's just the type

1239
00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: of site that we're running, you know, like on the

1240
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: one hand, it's like we're making jokes, we're trying to

1241
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: make people laugh, you know, but at the same time,

1242
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 1: we're also trying to make them think. And I think

1243
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: it's I didn't know how rewarding it would be to

1244
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: be out there with a voice in the in the

1245
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 1: in the public, in the conversation, where you know, you're

1246
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: dealing with really important issues and there's really bad ideas

1247
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 1: out there and in some cases, you know, some of

1248
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 1: the when you have somebody that's when you have people

1249
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: who have abandoned reason altogether and they're irrational on purpose,

1250
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:31,919
Speaker 1: Arguing with them is not very effective because you're using

1251
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 1: reason and they've abandoned reason. So the best thing that

1252
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 1: you can do is to mock and ridicule them, and

1253
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: that's what the Babylon b does. And I had I

1254
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 1: had no idea how rewarding, how mission based, it would

1255
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: be to go beyond just simply running a media company

1256
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 1: that's focused on like making money, to being running a

1257
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 1: median media company that's speaking truth to culture, ridiculing bad ideas,

1258
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: which I think is a moral good um, and and

1259
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 1: trying to preserve freedom and restore sanity in an age

1260
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 1: where both are under assault every day and like crazy

1261
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 1: ridiculou with ways and so just being on the front

1262
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 1: lines of that battle and fighting back against the censorship

1263
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 1: and the effort to you know, shove ideology and downward

1264
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 1: throats that that that we don't want um, and the

1265
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: effort to silence and suppress our voices. Being involved in

1266
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: that is extremely rewarding, far beyond you know, whatever whatever

1267
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 1: financial reward there is. And running a popular media company

1268
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: that's you know, it's got a lot of eyeballs and

1269
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: was generating a lot of traffic UM. So I didn't

1270
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:28,919
Speaker 1: know that. I didn't know what I was getting into

1271
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 1: with that. But with that also comes the weight of

1272
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 1: a lot of responsibility. You know, everything you say is scrutinized,

1273
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 1: everything you do is scrutinized. Um. But you know, we're

1274
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: very fortunate to have a ton of support, a lot

1275
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 1: of people in our corner, and I think we're fighting

1276
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 1: a fight that's worth fighting. So it doesn't have to

1277
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: just be about the business. For me, what I learned

1278
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: is it's this goes way beyond business. You know, there's

1279
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 1: a lot of things here that are really of value

1280
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 1: and that are rewarding and being involved. Uh. You know,

1281
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 1: in these discussions, the right is used to being attacked

1282
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: and ridiculed and the left is not. That makes that

1283
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:09,720
Speaker 1: a very fertile area to be able to puncture that

1284
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 1: that that sort of illusion. And what I have found

1285
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 1: is disagreement doesn't really bother people on the far left wing.

1286
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 1: Ridicule uh, and satire and humor really genuinely bother them

1287
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 1: in a way that disagreement does not. Uh why do

1288
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 1: you think? And and I'm I'm just curious big picture

1289
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 1: for you. You're around the same age as me. We

1290
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: grew up when David Letterman or Jay Leno or whoever,

1291
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: Conan O'Brien, they tended to take even handed shots. Whether

1292
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 1: it was Bill Clinton got made fun of like crazy, right.

1293
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 1: I mean, he obviously get left a lot of a

1294
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: lot of material out there, but so did George W. Bush.

1295
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 1: And it felt fairly even handed. And now, basically in

1296
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: the wake of the Cold Air report becoming a default

1297
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 1: you know, uh, news news show that now is in

1298
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 1: humor and then you've got Saturday Night Live, they started

1299
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 1: to all pull their punches on the left wing, and

1300
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: certainly I think it had started to happen before Trump,

1301
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 1: but Trump put it on steroids. Why do you think

1302
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 1: that is? And and how much opening do they leave

1303
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: for you? Because there's almost nobody else out there throwing

1304
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:29,439
Speaker 1: these kind of humor and satire punches. I think there's

1305
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 1: a lot of desire on the right, um, amongst conservatives

1306
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 1: oftentimes very very often times in like the Christian community

1307
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 1: that I've been a part of in my early life.

1308
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: In adult life, you know this this desire to be

1309
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: at peace and to plain ice and try to get

1310
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 1: alone and you know, reach across the aisle and find

1311
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 1: common ground and all of these things. There's there's a

1312
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: lot of desire to do that. Um, there's a lot

1313
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 1: of desire to avoid um the can pentiousness of of

1314
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: being really confrontational are engaging in those fights. And I

1315
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: think that you know, it's it's tricky too when you

1316
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 1: when you start talking about ridicule and mockery, those things

1317
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 1: sound very negative, They sound like like personal attacks, right,

1318
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 1: And what I think that the beatas very effectively and

1319
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 1: what I when I when I summarize our our mission

1320
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 1: statement if we have one. We don't technically have one.

1321
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: But when I summarize, what we're trying to do is

1322
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 1: we're trying to we're trying to make people laugh but

1323
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: also think. But in that process, we're trying to ridicule

1324
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: bad ideas. You know, ridicule bad ideas, And that's it's

1325
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 1: the ideas themselves that are the target's, the ideas that

1326
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 1: are harmful as, the ideas that you need to mock

1327
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 1: and tear down and make fun of before young people

1328
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: start to think they're good ideas and grow up thinking

1329
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: they're great ideas and put them into policy and into practice,

1330
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 1: and in society as a whole suffers for it. And

1331
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 1: so I think there's a there's a moral necessity to

1332
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: ridiculing and mocking um bad ideas. And and if you know,

1333
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:56,680
Speaker 1: if people can understand that that it's actually a good thing,

1334
01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 1: then maybe they'd be more emboldened to do it without

1335
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 1: feeling bad about it, like they're doing something wrong. You're

1336
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 1: not doing anything wrong by ridiculing and mocking bad ideas.

1337
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 1: You're helping people, um, and you're standing up for the

1338
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: truth UM, And you're cutting through all the noise and

1339
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 1: pushing back on the insanity. But like I said, that's

1340
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: one of the only ways you can even deal with

1341
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 1: insanity when people have abandoned rationality. It's not like you

1342
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: can just have a conversation with them and reason with

1343
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: them because they've abandoned reason. So ridiculing mockery are really

1344
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: your only choice, and they're the most effective in that

1345
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 1: in that context. So um, I think, you know, I

1346
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: think that there's a lot of fertile ground. There's a

1347
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 1: lot of opportunity for people to come in and make

1348
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: the jokes that you're not supposed to make and do

1349
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 1: these kinds of things, because look, the left has given

1350
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 1: this up. They were so good at comedy and they

1351
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 1: were so good at ridicule. Right now, comedians are being

1352
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: so careful. The comedians on the left. You watch these

1353
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 1: late night shows, they're going for applause, not amusements. They

1354
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 1: want the crowd to affirm them and clap for them

1355
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 1: rather than laugh. Like they're not even really concerned with

1356
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: hitting laughs. They're just preaching and in the in the

1357
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 1: choir is applauding them. And it's crazy to see that

1358
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 1: happening because comedians satirist humorous. Our job is the poke

1359
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: holes in the popular narrative, not promoted, not push it

1360
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 1: on everyone. And when comedians have started to go this

1361
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 1: direction of trying to promote it so that you know,

1362
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:13,440
Speaker 1: they're getting virtue points, whether up there preaching instead of

1363
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 1: actually doing comedy and making people laugh. You know, comedy

1364
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 1: by its nature's offensive. It's not a safe space being

1365
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 1: at a comedy show. You're gonna get made fun of.

1366
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: There's gonna be things that are uncomfortable and they make

1367
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 1: you squirm, and that's good. It's confronting us with uncomfortable truths,

1368
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 1: and that's how you grow, That's how you become more resilient.

1369
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:30,920
Speaker 1: And so I think that anybody who goes in there

1370
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 1: and who's willing to make the jokes that you're not

1371
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 1: supposed to make anymore and push back on that stuff,

1372
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: they're going to try to silence them. But look what

1373
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 1: happened with Dave Chappelle, Look what's happening with Joe Rogan.

1374
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 1: These guys aren't losing. You know, we're not losing right now.

1375
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:45,920
Speaker 1: I think all of us are winning. The effort to

1376
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 1: silence us is only amplifying our voices. Last question for you,

1377
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 1: have there been comedians who are known are thought to

1378
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: be a left wing that have interacted with the Babylon

1379
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 1: b have come along and said, you know what, you

1380
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 1: guys are pretty funny that have surprised you. It kind

1381
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 1: of builds out of what you were just saying. Comedy

1382
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 1: that is designed to uh, to uplift people in positions

1383
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 1: of power is propaganda. It's not actually comedy. Um, have

1384
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 1: you seen and received positive feedback from people that might

1385
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 1: have been perceived to be of a different political bent,

1386
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:29,800
Speaker 1: just because the great thing about comedy is it should

1387
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 1: work no matter what your political beliefs are. If you

1388
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 1: have to sit around and think, hey, is this funny

1389
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 1: for a women's studies professor at Amherst, Well, that's not

1390
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 1: exactly the you know, the the faculty lounge there. That's

1391
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 1: the exact absence of comedy. Comedy is reacting immediately and

1392
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 1: instantaneously smiling before you have time to think about the underlying, uh,

1393
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 1: you know, root causes of the humor itself. Yeah. And

1394
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 1: there's a good point. And I kind of reject this

1395
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 1: idea that there's like there's we should think in terms

1396
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 1: of like right wing comedians and left wing comedians if

1397
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 1: you're a right wing if you're a strictly right wing comedian,

1398
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:09,240
Speaker 1: is like pushing a narrative yourself. You know that, then

1399
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 1: you're you're not doing it right either. Um. I think

1400
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 1: that there should be you know you, you should be

1401
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 1: joking about whatever deserves the mockery, joking about whatever deserves

1402
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 1: to be joked about, and that then that involves examining

1403
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:24,920
Speaker 1: your own side, your own motives and inclinations, your own practices,

1404
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 1: your own hypocrisy. We try to do that ourselves quite

1405
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 1: a bit. Um. But in terms of like somebody from

1406
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 1: the left like coming alongside us and saying, hey, you know,

1407
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 1: I really appreciate I can't think of a single example

1408
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 1: of that happening, Like somebody like who comes who had

1409
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 1: just has a totally different world view than us. There

1410
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 1: may be a couple, but nothing that really jumps to

1411
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:47,880
Speaker 1: mind I can think of, Like some comedians like Bill Maher,

1412
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: for example, who I disagree with on many, many, many things,

1413
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 1: but who thinks who thinks cancel culture is a problematic.

1414
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 1: He thinks the woke stuff has gone crazy and over

1415
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 1: the top and is saying, um, he thinks that speech

1416
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 1: suppression is bad and that you shouldn't be trying to

1417
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,560
Speaker 1: silence people who disagree with you. Um, you know, he's

1418
01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 1: he's more of like an old school liberal that way,

1419
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 1: and has very has been very vocal about those things.

1420
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 1: And I respect that that even though I disagree with

1421
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 1: him on a lot of things, he's he gets that

1422
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 1: and and understands that. You know, comedy is about, um,

1423
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes making making you a little bit uncomfortable,

1424
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:26,240
Speaker 1: making you squirm a little bit. It's not just about

1425
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:30,639
Speaker 1: you know, reaffirming you and and not stepping on anybody's toes. Um,

1426
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 1: and anybody who does should be silence outstanding stuff. He

1427
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 1: is Seth Dylan with the Babylon Be. Encourage you to

1428
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:42,759
Speaker 1: follow Seth online while you still can. Hopefully the Babylon

1429
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 1: Be will be back on Twitter in the meantime. UH

1430
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 1: and people can obviously go to your website and see

1431
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 1: all the content that you guys are putting up on

1432
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 1: a day to day basis. I know you've been crazy busy.

1433
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:55,679
Speaker 1: I appreciate the time. What else do you want people

1434
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 1: to know that I didn't give you an opportunity to

1435
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 1: tell them to close out here? I don't know. I

1436
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:04,240
Speaker 1: mean when people people ask for how they can support us,

1437
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 1: and I tell them there's a couple of ways, And

1438
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 1: the first one is not like by setting us money.

1439
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:11,759
Speaker 1: The first one is the a bold defender of the truth.

1440
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 1: When when, when Twitter, when Facebook, when YouTube, when, whoever

1441
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:16,639
Speaker 1: it is tries to get you to say that two

1442
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:18,679
Speaker 1: and two make five, tell them, no, two and two

1443
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:21,639
Speaker 1: make four. And I'm not budging on that. Insist on

1444
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 1: recognizing reality for what it is. Speak the truth boldly,

1445
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:26,720
Speaker 1: even it means, even if it means you pay a

1446
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 1: penalty for it. You know, like I've said before, like

1447
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:32,400
Speaker 1: from the stage at these events, I'm talking about this stuff.

1448
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, before this ever happened, by the way, before

1449
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: we ever got banned on Twitter. I'm like, the greatest

1450
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 1: achievement on Twitter is not going viral or getting verified,

1451
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:42,520
Speaker 1: it's getting banned for saying something true. You know, paying

1452
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 1: paying a price for the truth is an achievement. There

1453
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 1: are people who have been willing to write down their

1454
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 1: lives for for freedom and for the truth, and we're

1455
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 1: not willing to give up our Twitter accounts. I mean,

1456
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:53,680
Speaker 1: it's a it's a big deal with's at stake right now,

1457
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 1: and so the best way to support us is for

1458
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: us to rally together. We should all be telling the

1459
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:01,280
Speaker 1: truth boldly and not backing down on that, and eventually

1460
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 1: things will swing back in our direction. They're going to

1461
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: have to make changes. They can't ban millions of us,

1462
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 1: tens of millions of us, or they will ban themselves

1463
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 1: into a relevance to make them do that. But beyond that, Yeah,

1464
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 1: go to our website subscribe. That helps too, he set Dylan.

1465
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 1: I'm Clay Travis. This has been Wins and Losses. Subscribed

1466
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 1: to this as well forty five long form interviews. I

1467
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: think you will love them. If this is your first

1468
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 1: thanks for checking them out. Go check out more in

1469
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:28,679
Speaker 1: the past, and we'll be back sooner rather than later.

1470
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 1: This has been Wins and Losses.