1 00:00:15,066 --> 00:00:26,776 Speaker 1: Pushkin. A few months after episode 12 came out, Haley 2 00:00:26,796 --> 00:00:29,376 Speaker 1: and I found ourselves standing in pretty much the last 3 00:00:29,456 --> 00:00:33,276 Speaker 1: place we ever expected to be, outside the Los Angeles 4 00:00:33,316 --> 00:00:37,736 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Department Homicide Bureau in Monterey Park. I feel 5 00:00:37,776 --> 00:00:39,146 Speaker 1: like we're going to need a selfie. 6 00:00:39,466 --> 00:00:40,146 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. 7 00:00:40,166 --> 00:00:41,446 Speaker 3: Are you kidding me? 8 00:00:41,486 --> 00:00:42,226 Speaker 1: Right here, right now. 9 00:00:42,606 --> 00:00:44,536 Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. Can we see a selfie? 10 00:00:45,216 --> 00:00:48,116 Speaker 1: Probably, but it's okay. We're excited. We're allowed to take 11 00:00:48,136 --> 00:00:51,356 Speaker 1: a selfie. We've been trying to get the attention of 12 00:00:51,396 --> 00:00:54,886 Speaker 1: the sheriff's homicide detectives ever since we started reporting on 13 00:00:54,966 --> 00:00:59,726 Speaker 1: one of the county's most notorious unsolved cases, the 2009 14 00:00:59,726 --> 00:01:04,206 Speaker 1: disappearance and death of Mitrice Richardson. We'd appealed to them 15 00:01:04,286 --> 00:01:07,356 Speaker 1: to share information with us, and when that didn't happen, 16 00:01:07,796 --> 00:01:10,836 Speaker 1: we tried to provide them with the new information we'd uncovered. 17 00:01:11,576 --> 00:01:15,776 Speaker 1: But now... after years of avoiding our questions, they want 18 00:01:15,796 --> 00:01:19,456 Speaker 1: to talk to us. This will be my last recordings. 19 00:01:18,896 --> 00:01:19,476 Speaker 2: For a while. 20 00:01:20,096 --> 00:01:23,606 Speaker 1: Definitely need to turn this off when we go inside. 21 00:01:24,546 --> 00:01:24,946 Speaker 1: Should we just. 22 00:01:26,726 --> 00:01:26,986 Speaker 3: Ready? 23 00:01:28,986 --> 00:01:32,856 Speaker 1: I'm Dana Goodyear, and this is a Lost Hills bonus episode. 24 00:01:43,156 --> 00:01:46,376 Speaker 1: After the last episode of Lost Hills Dark Canyon dropped 25 00:01:46,416 --> 00:01:51,796 Speaker 1: in July, things went surprisingly quiet. The season had been 26 00:01:51,976 --> 00:01:54,936 Speaker 1: so intense to make and the material was so urgent. 27 00:01:55,356 --> 00:01:59,836 Speaker 1: We'd found startling new information potentially connecting a local Malibu man, 28 00:02:00,216 --> 00:02:05,016 Speaker 1: Rick Forsberg, to the unsolved disappearance and death of Mitrice Richardson. 29 00:02:05,916 --> 00:02:08,436 Speaker 1: I think we were expecting to feel a cosmic shift 30 00:02:08,616 --> 00:02:13,176 Speaker 1: in the aftermath of our reporting. Instead, There was silence. 31 00:02:16,456 --> 00:02:19,336 Speaker 1: But then, on a Thursday night in the middle of August, 32 00:02:19,596 --> 00:02:23,336 Speaker 1: I checked my inbox. There was a new email with 33 00:02:23,376 --> 00:02:29,286 Speaker 1: the subject line, Mitrice Richardson. The sender was Detective Sean 34 00:02:29,326 --> 00:02:32,326 Speaker 1: McCarthy in the cold case unit of the Los Angeles 35 00:02:32,366 --> 00:02:37,986 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Department. He wanted to talk. He was inviting 36 00:02:38,046 --> 00:02:41,856 Speaker 1: us to the Homicide Bureau. to meet with him, another detective, 37 00:02:42,096 --> 00:02:46,786 Speaker 1: and two lieutenants. And, he wrote, we should, quote, feel 38 00:02:46,906 --> 00:02:49,766 Speaker 1: free to bring anything that you believe may be pertinent 39 00:02:49,806 --> 00:02:55,046 Speaker 1: to the investigation, unquote. In the last episode of the season, 40 00:02:55,266 --> 00:02:57,986 Speaker 1: we'd listed the actions we hoped the Sheriff's Department would 41 00:02:58,006 --> 00:03:01,036 Speaker 1: take in light of what we'd discovered. Our number one 42 00:03:01,216 --> 00:03:04,236 Speaker 1: ask was that they take into evidence and test the 43 00:03:04,336 --> 00:03:07,916 Speaker 1: underwear and other items we'd found at Rick Forsberg's Mountain Fort. 44 00:03:08,676 --> 00:03:10,776 Speaker 1: to see if there was a connection to my trees. 45 00:03:11,836 --> 00:03:13,936 Speaker 1: Now it sounded like they were giving us a green 46 00:03:13,976 --> 00:03:15,756 Speaker 1: light to bring it all to the station. 47 00:03:15,776 --> 00:03:20,716 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 48 00:03:21,176 --> 00:03:23,476 Speaker 4: Also, can you just picture us walking in with a 49 00:03:23,516 --> 00:03:27,836 Speaker 4: trash bag full of underwear to the homicide department? I mean, 50 00:03:27,856 --> 00:03:31,276 Speaker 4: it's frightening easy for me to picture that. 51 00:03:31,776 --> 00:03:32,116 Speaker 2: Yeah. 52 00:03:36,056 --> 00:03:38,406 Speaker 1: So there we were at the Homicide Bureau with a 53 00:03:38,426 --> 00:03:42,006 Speaker 1: bag of underwear, which we left in Haley's car. We 54 00:03:42,046 --> 00:03:44,106 Speaker 1: still had to convince them that they needed to assume 55 00:03:44,166 --> 00:03:47,566 Speaker 1: custody of it. We rang the bell and got buzzed 56 00:03:47,646 --> 00:03:51,666 Speaker 1: into a sparse beige lobby. After a few minutes, Detective 57 00:03:51,686 --> 00:03:54,506 Speaker 1: McCarthy came out to meet us. We followed him down 58 00:03:54,546 --> 00:03:58,206 Speaker 1: a hallway lined with pictures of historic homicide investigations to 59 00:03:58,246 --> 00:04:00,356 Speaker 1: a conference room he'd reserved for the afternoon. 60 00:04:03,836 --> 00:04:06,706 Speaker 3: Haley, we're allowed to record. Amazing. 61 00:04:07,506 --> 00:04:10,966 Speaker 1: To our total surprise, Detective McCarthy said we could record 62 00:04:11,006 --> 00:04:14,366 Speaker 1: the meeting. We just fully assumed that we were not 63 00:04:14,406 --> 00:04:17,306 Speaker 1: going to be doing that. This is great. The iPhone's 64 00:04:17,346 --> 00:04:17,806 Speaker 1: pretty good. 65 00:04:17,826 --> 00:04:19,626 Speaker 3: We're going to record, too. 66 00:04:20,366 --> 00:04:24,366 Speaker 1: Apparently our podcast, and what, if anything, the Sheriff's Department 67 00:04:24,406 --> 00:04:26,906 Speaker 1: should do about it, had generated quite a bit of 68 00:04:26,966 --> 00:04:27,856 Speaker 1: internal discussion. 69 00:04:28,826 --> 00:04:30,366 Speaker 2: And I'm going to be honest with you, because I 70 00:04:30,386 --> 00:04:31,356 Speaker 2: want to be transparent. 71 00:04:31,376 --> 00:04:34,116 Speaker 3: There's a lot of disagreement on whether we should even 72 00:04:34,136 --> 00:04:36,666 Speaker 3: be here today. A lot of disagreement. 73 00:04:38,046 --> 00:04:42,566 Speaker 2: To the point of people being angry at me for 74 00:04:42,586 --> 00:04:49,146 Speaker 2: setting up this interview. Some feel that this case is 75 00:04:49,406 --> 00:04:54,556 Speaker 2: over with. It's come to a conclusion. There was a 76 00:04:54,596 --> 00:04:56,196 Speaker 2: part of me that wanted to tell you to go 77 00:04:56,236 --> 00:04:59,456 Speaker 2: pound sand too. But when I listen to your podcast, 78 00:04:59,676 --> 00:05:02,176 Speaker 2: there are some things in there that I think. 79 00:05:03,756 --> 00:05:05,356 Speaker 3: We at least need to talk about. 80 00:05:07,226 --> 00:05:09,426 Speaker 1: Before we got into the details of what we'd uncovered, 81 00:05:09,716 --> 00:05:13,246 Speaker 1: he wanted us to understand a couple things. First, he 82 00:05:13,296 --> 00:05:17,916 Speaker 1: wasn't quite, or wasn't yet, the assigned investigator. Although he 83 00:05:17,956 --> 00:05:22,116 Speaker 1: was an investigator, and he'd been assigned to hear us out. Second, 84 00:05:22,576 --> 00:05:24,416 Speaker 1: he didn't want us getting our hopes up that they'd 85 00:05:24,436 --> 00:05:25,996 Speaker 1: be able to solve Mitrice's case. 86 00:05:26,476 --> 00:05:29,516 Speaker 3: I just want to educate you on the Sheriff's Department, okay? 87 00:05:29,896 --> 00:05:31,176 Speaker 3: And our unit in particular. 88 00:05:32,096 --> 00:05:34,176 Speaker 2: We've been in existence for 102 years. 89 00:05:34,896 --> 00:05:35,736 Speaker 3: The Homicide Bureau. 90 00:05:36,426 --> 00:05:41,506 Speaker 2: We have over 20,000 homicides in our library. Of those 91 00:05:41,506 --> 00:05:47,406 Speaker 2: 20,000 homicides, over 4,500 are unsolved cases. 92 00:05:47,406 --> 00:05:49,146 Speaker 3: 4,500, right? 93 00:05:52,586 --> 00:05:57,366 Speaker 2: Our unsolved unit is made up of about 12 investigators, 94 00:05:58,266 --> 00:06:03,946 Speaker 2: some who don't investigate cold cases. We have six investigators 95 00:06:03,996 --> 00:06:08,326 Speaker 2: that are currently investigating cold cases. 96 00:06:07,526 --> 00:06:09,926 Speaker 3: For 4,500 cases, right? 97 00:06:10,606 --> 00:06:15,816 Speaker 2: Right now, I personally am investigating about 35 cold cases, right? 98 00:06:16,596 --> 00:06:20,496 Speaker 2: Of those 35 cold cases, there's more, but those are 99 00:06:20,516 --> 00:06:25,076 Speaker 2: the most solvable cold cases that I feel there's viable 100 00:06:25,176 --> 00:06:29,706 Speaker 2: information or we have recently received viable information that make 101 00:06:29,766 --> 00:06:30,686 Speaker 2: that case. 102 00:06:32,106 --> 00:06:32,466 Speaker 3: Solvable. 103 00:06:34,296 --> 00:06:37,396 Speaker 1: The first thing Detective McCarthy wanted to know from us was, 104 00:06:37,936 --> 00:06:40,956 Speaker 1: how confident were we that Rick Forsberg had played a 105 00:06:40,996 --> 00:06:42,456 Speaker 1: role in Mitrice's death? 106 00:06:43,956 --> 00:06:49,046 Speaker 2: In your opinion, based on your entire series of podcasts, 107 00:06:50,846 --> 00:06:55,926 Speaker 2: is Forsberg the one and only viable suspect in your opinion? 108 00:06:56,246 --> 00:07:00,156 Speaker 2: If he is a suspect, if she was murdered? Yes. 109 00:07:00,316 --> 00:07:00,556 Speaker 4: Okay. 110 00:07:01,896 --> 00:07:04,146 Speaker 1: So... Which is not to say that there couldn't have 111 00:07:04,166 --> 00:07:08,346 Speaker 1: been other people. There could be eyewitnesses. This is, in essence, 112 00:07:08,386 --> 00:07:11,206 Speaker 1: what we reported in the podcast. Forsberg had been a 113 00:07:11,246 --> 00:07:14,616 Speaker 1: person of interest going way back to 2010, when Mitrice 114 00:07:14,636 --> 00:07:18,416 Speaker 1: was still missing. Then her remains were found in Dark Canyon, 115 00:07:18,656 --> 00:07:21,316 Speaker 1: in the same area where Forsberg was known to grow pot, 116 00:07:21,856 --> 00:07:23,816 Speaker 1: and about a mile from his fort in the brush 117 00:07:23,976 --> 00:07:28,236 Speaker 1: off Paiuma Road. Forsberg was given a polygraph exam in 2012, 118 00:07:28,236 --> 00:07:31,646 Speaker 1: and then, for some reason, they let him go. 119 00:07:33,046 --> 00:07:35,826 Speaker 4: We know that he was on the radar, so what 120 00:07:35,866 --> 00:07:40,326 Speaker 4: happened to him? Like, why didn't, why wasn't anything pursued 121 00:07:40,656 --> 00:07:42,246 Speaker 4: past a point? I mean, that's still one of our 122 00:07:42,296 --> 00:07:44,176 Speaker 4: biggest questions. 123 00:07:44,816 --> 00:07:46,816 Speaker 3: We're going to try to answer some of your questions. 124 00:07:47,636 --> 00:07:50,316 Speaker 1: Detective McCarthy opened a folder that was on the table 125 00:07:50,356 --> 00:07:50,896 Speaker 1: in front of him. 126 00:07:51,516 --> 00:07:55,576 Speaker 2: So, how do we determine, based on what we have, 127 00:07:56,796 --> 00:07:59,416 Speaker 2: if Rick Forsberg has anything. 128 00:07:59,156 --> 00:08:05,386 Speaker 3: To do with this? Forsberg... in March of 2012, was interviewed. 129 00:08:05,446 --> 00:08:08,566 Speaker 3: I know you know that. He was interviewed. And I'm 130 00:08:08,586 --> 00:08:10,156 Speaker 3: going to read a sentence to you. 131 00:08:10,626 --> 00:08:13,916 Speaker 2: Investigators recalled the name of Rick Forsberg being associated with 132 00:08:13,976 --> 00:08:15,636 Speaker 2: a clue received in January of 2010. 133 00:08:15,636 --> 00:08:21,276 Speaker 1: That clue was about Rick's fort, where witnesses said there 134 00:08:21,296 --> 00:08:22,016 Speaker 1: was a ribcage. 135 00:08:22,736 --> 00:08:26,476 Speaker 2: And there was a follow-up investigation done. The clue indicated 136 00:08:26,736 --> 00:08:32,026 Speaker 2: Forsberg lived near a tree fort in May of 2010. 137 00:08:32,026 --> 00:08:35,666 Speaker 2: Tree Fort was located in the immediate search area by deputies. 138 00:08:36,026 --> 00:08:39,566 Speaker 2: Bones were located, which were later identified as animal remains. 139 00:08:39,886 --> 00:08:42,746 Speaker 2: Does that mean that they couldn't have missed something? No, 140 00:08:42,836 --> 00:08:46,856 Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that 100% sure. But they at least 141 00:08:46,896 --> 00:08:49,936 Speaker 2: did a search of that area, and they found nothing 142 00:08:50,596 --> 00:08:52,376 Speaker 2: related to my tree, Richardson. 143 00:08:53,016 --> 00:08:57,976 Speaker 1: Then, Detective McCarthy said, in 2012, a, quote, citizen informant 144 00:08:58,056 --> 00:09:01,716 Speaker 1: had tipped the Sheriff's Department about Rick again. He didn't 145 00:09:01,756 --> 00:09:04,336 Speaker 1: say her name, but we know this was Lisa Lepore, 146 00:09:04,736 --> 00:09:07,676 Speaker 1: who we interviewed for the podcast. She told us Rick 147 00:09:07,696 --> 00:09:10,696 Speaker 1: had tried to take her into Dark Canyon, but instead 148 00:09:10,876 --> 00:09:13,136 Speaker 1: she drove him to Lost Hill Station, where he was 149 00:09:13,196 --> 00:09:14,706 Speaker 1: interviewed by homicide detectives. 150 00:09:16,466 --> 00:09:17,336 Speaker 3: So they interviewed him. 151 00:09:19,246 --> 00:09:21,306 Speaker 2: And at least according to the report, and I spoke 152 00:09:21,386 --> 00:09:28,966 Speaker 2: briefly with the investigator, he was forthcoming. There wasn't any 153 00:09:29,286 --> 00:09:33,376 Speaker 2: contentiousness that that I can tell, and in my conversation 154 00:09:33,416 --> 00:09:36,696 Speaker 2: with him, he admitted he was a heavy drug user 155 00:09:36,716 --> 00:09:39,356 Speaker 2: and alcohol user for 30 years. 156 00:09:41,376 --> 00:09:43,196 Speaker 3: He admitted he had a tree fort. He called it 157 00:09:43,756 --> 00:09:46,076 Speaker 3: a cottage in that area. 158 00:09:47,416 --> 00:09:50,586 Speaker 2: He denied having anything to do with Richardson and Dest's 159 00:09:50,616 --> 00:09:54,106 Speaker 2: disappearance and offered an explanation. 160 00:09:54,986 --> 00:09:57,906 Speaker 1: Rick told the detectives a version of the same story 161 00:09:57,926 --> 00:09:58,686 Speaker 1: he told his friends. 162 00:09:59,646 --> 00:10:01,646 Speaker 2: And here's where we get into the information that you 163 00:10:01,666 --> 00:10:04,996 Speaker 2: already talked about. Is that he was in the canyon, 164 00:10:05,216 --> 00:10:08,426 Speaker 2: he was at his tree fort smoking meth or marijuana 165 00:10:08,466 --> 00:10:08,866 Speaker 2: or whatever. 166 00:10:08,906 --> 00:10:09,526 Speaker 3: He was doing. 167 00:10:10,246 --> 00:10:12,286 Speaker 2: And once he was done, he was on his way 168 00:10:12,346 --> 00:10:15,166 Speaker 2: back to his residence. And on his way back, he 169 00:10:15,226 --> 00:10:20,146 Speaker 2: hears a female voice yelling. And he described it, and 170 00:10:20,206 --> 00:10:23,046 Speaker 2: I asked Rich Tomlin, who's a black man, he described 171 00:10:23,066 --> 00:10:25,286 Speaker 2: it as an African-American voice. I don't know how he 172 00:10:25,306 --> 00:10:27,006 Speaker 2: determined that, but when I asked Tomlin, he goes, I 173 00:10:27,026 --> 00:10:30,336 Speaker 2: can see that. Okay, it was an African American, female 174 00:10:30,416 --> 00:10:30,996 Speaker 2: African American. 175 00:10:31,536 --> 00:10:33,656 Speaker 3: The logical connection, my. 176 00:10:33,556 --> 00:10:34,356 Speaker 2: Trees, right? 177 00:10:35,876 --> 00:10:38,296 Speaker 3: But he said it wasn't a woman yelling for help. 178 00:10:38,576 --> 00:10:41,756 Speaker 2: It was more of a woman in some sort of 179 00:10:41,836 --> 00:10:47,216 Speaker 2: confrontation with somebody. And Forsberg said he went to investigate, 180 00:10:47,256 --> 00:10:49,456 Speaker 2: but he could not find the source of the yelling. 181 00:10:50,136 --> 00:10:54,136 Speaker 2: He told investigators this, right? Couldn't find a source of 182 00:10:54,156 --> 00:10:57,706 Speaker 2: the yelling. So he went on his way. He said 183 00:10:57,746 --> 00:11:01,026 Speaker 2: he didn't come forward because of his contentious relationship with 184 00:11:01,066 --> 00:11:01,816 Speaker 2: law enforcement. 185 00:11:02,366 --> 00:11:06,056 Speaker 1: At that point, Detective McCarthy said, the detectives asked Forsberg 186 00:11:06,156 --> 00:11:07,596 Speaker 1: if he'd be willing to take a polygraph. 187 00:11:08,496 --> 00:11:14,366 Speaker 2: Polygraph examinations are not admissible in court. So we only 188 00:11:14,396 --> 00:11:18,586 Speaker 2: do them under certain circumstances. And in this case, they're 189 00:11:18,626 --> 00:11:21,766 Speaker 2: trying to find out, does he have anything to do 190 00:11:21,786 --> 00:11:25,266 Speaker 2: with this appearance, right? And I will read this to you. 191 00:11:25,546 --> 00:11:28,006 Speaker 2: It's striking to me. You may scoff at it, but 192 00:11:28,026 --> 00:11:32,066 Speaker 2: it's striking to me. And this is a poly examiner 193 00:11:32,106 --> 00:11:36,586 Speaker 2: explaining this to the investigator. A score of plus four 194 00:11:36,686 --> 00:11:40,826 Speaker 2: or higher indicates little or no deception. A score of 195 00:11:40,866 --> 00:11:45,956 Speaker 2: minus three or below indicates deception. The preliminary scoring for 196 00:11:46,026 --> 00:11:48,936 Speaker 2: Vorderberg's indicated a score. 197 00:11:48,656 --> 00:11:49,716 Speaker 3: Of plus ten. 198 00:11:51,376 --> 00:11:56,256 Speaker 2: That is passing with flying colors, okay? Now, you can 199 00:11:56,316 --> 00:11:59,396 Speaker 2: say what you want about polygraph examinations, but that's striking 200 00:11:59,456 --> 00:12:03,916 Speaker 2: to me. The plus 10, that's passing with flying colors, right? 201 00:12:06,686 --> 00:12:09,906 Speaker 1: So this is why Forsberg walked. Not because he had 202 00:12:09,986 --> 00:12:12,386 Speaker 1: some other alibi that Haley and I didn't know about. 203 00:12:13,046 --> 00:12:16,526 Speaker 1: Not because investigators found some other credible reason. If there 204 00:12:16,566 --> 00:12:19,126 Speaker 1: had been one, I'm sure Detective McCarthy would have been 205 00:12:19,326 --> 00:12:20,936 Speaker 1: all too delighted to tell us about it. 206 00:12:21,666 --> 00:12:21,766 Speaker 4: No. 207 00:12:22,746 --> 00:12:26,086 Speaker 1: The detectives let Forsberg walk because he passed a polygraph 208 00:12:26,386 --> 00:12:31,566 Speaker 1: with quote-unquote flying colors. Even though the most superficial Googling 209 00:12:31,626 --> 00:12:34,926 Speaker 1: suggests that if he was high on pot and or meth, 210 00:12:35,386 --> 00:12:38,506 Speaker 1: his drugs of choice, this alone could have thrown off 211 00:12:38,566 --> 00:12:43,416 Speaker 1: the results. This was depressing as hell. The way we 212 00:12:43,456 --> 00:12:46,516 Speaker 1: saw it, they had Mitrice's killer in custody and they 213 00:12:46,556 --> 00:12:51,716 Speaker 1: let him slip away. And now, he was dead. But then... 214 00:12:52,076 --> 00:12:56,376 Speaker 1: Detective McCarthy offered us a tiny fraction of hope that 215 00:12:56,516 --> 00:13:14,696 Speaker 1: maybe the case can be solved after all. We've been 216 00:13:14,716 --> 00:13:17,436 Speaker 1: sitting around the conference table for several hours at this point, 217 00:13:18,016 --> 00:13:21,376 Speaker 1: explaining what we knew and how. and gleaning what little 218 00:13:21,416 --> 00:13:24,976 Speaker 1: bits about the investigation Detective McCarthy was willing to let slip. 219 00:13:25,836 --> 00:13:29,206 Speaker 1: We'd taken coffee breaks and bathroom breaks. The detectives had 220 00:13:29,246 --> 00:13:32,706 Speaker 1: even ordered pizza. But now it was time to stop 221 00:13:32,846 --> 00:13:35,406 Speaker 1: asking questions about the past and see what they were 222 00:13:35,446 --> 00:13:38,826 Speaker 1: willing to do moving forward. We needed to get them 223 00:13:38,866 --> 00:13:42,336 Speaker 1: to think about Rick's fort. It was potentially a crime scene, 224 00:13:42,746 --> 00:13:46,496 Speaker 1: maybe still rich in evidence. And some of that potential evidence, 225 00:13:46,916 --> 00:13:50,456 Speaker 1: what we, using shorthand, called the Bag of Underwear, was 226 00:13:50,516 --> 00:13:52,896 Speaker 1: sitting in the trunk of Haley's car in the parking 227 00:13:52,936 --> 00:13:57,706 Speaker 1: lot out front. Yeah, so probably for us, the biggest 228 00:13:58,526 --> 00:14:01,986 Speaker 1: question we weren't able to answer, which we believe the 229 00:14:02,006 --> 00:14:08,456 Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department could answer potentially, is, is there a connection 230 00:14:08,836 --> 00:14:13,436 Speaker 1: between the women's undergarments that we found at the site 231 00:14:13,576 --> 00:14:17,696 Speaker 1: and Mitrice? Or a bigger question, is there any physical 232 00:14:17,816 --> 00:14:22,306 Speaker 1: evidence that could place Mitrice at the fort Because I think, look, 233 00:14:22,346 --> 00:14:24,626 Speaker 1: I don't know yet what your standards are for viability. 234 00:14:24,686 --> 00:14:27,496 Speaker 3: But to me, that would be viable. 235 00:14:30,136 --> 00:14:36,396 Speaker 1: There's also another kind of corollary question, which is, are 236 00:14:36,496 --> 00:14:40,856 Speaker 1: any of these items of underwear and lingerie linked to 237 00:14:40,936 --> 00:14:43,236 Speaker 1: other women who might be victims? 238 00:14:43,776 --> 00:14:47,606 Speaker 3: They were varied in their sizes, styles. 239 00:14:49,356 --> 00:14:53,936 Speaker 1: One thing clearly belonged to a child, and we think 240 00:14:53,996 --> 00:14:58,306 Speaker 1: it's quite possible that Forsberg had a much bigger pool 241 00:14:58,326 --> 00:15:03,346 Speaker 1: of victims than even we know about. So that's why 242 00:15:03,466 --> 00:15:07,826 Speaker 1: we kept everything, and we did bring it today in 243 00:15:07,866 --> 00:15:14,486 Speaker 1: case you want it, so that there might be something 244 00:15:14,546 --> 00:15:17,086 Speaker 1: that you could get a signature off, but we ran 245 00:15:17,106 --> 00:15:18,166 Speaker 1: out of runway with. 246 00:15:18,146 --> 00:15:18,686 Speaker 3: What we could do. 247 00:15:19,826 --> 00:15:22,566 Speaker 1: Using a private forensics lab, we'd been able to test 248 00:15:22,786 --> 00:15:24,926 Speaker 1: one pair of the underwear we'd found at Rick's Fort. 249 00:15:25,706 --> 00:15:28,976 Speaker 1: We chose a size medium black thong, similar to the 250 00:15:29,006 --> 00:15:33,116 Speaker 1: style we knew Mitrice wore. But the DNA was too degraded. 251 00:15:33,996 --> 00:15:36,136 Speaker 1: It was possible that the rest of the underwear would 252 00:15:36,156 --> 00:15:40,176 Speaker 1: be similarly useless, but we didn't know. We were hoping 253 00:15:40,216 --> 00:15:43,436 Speaker 1: the sheriff's department would test the rest of it. There 254 00:15:43,476 --> 00:15:45,816 Speaker 1: was something else we wanted to bring to their attention, too. 255 00:15:46,646 --> 00:15:50,086 Speaker 1: It was probably the biggest long shot, but, importantly, it 256 00:15:50,126 --> 00:15:54,026 Speaker 1: would not depend on DNA. It required a little teeing up. 257 00:15:55,306 --> 00:15:58,636 Speaker 1: When Mitrice's remains were exhumed and reexamined in July of 2011, 258 00:15:58,626 --> 00:16:04,256 Speaker 1: the coroner's criminalist noted the presence of, quote, loose, green, 259 00:16:04,416 --> 00:16:10,176 Speaker 1: fuzz-like hair-slash-fibers located near the legs, unquote. There were some 260 00:16:10,256 --> 00:16:14,136 Speaker 1: other things that were not clothing that were collected, including 261 00:16:14,196 --> 00:16:19,406 Speaker 1: this green... fuzz-like material that was near her legs that, 262 00:16:19,826 --> 00:16:23,586 Speaker 1: when we first read the supplementary autopsy report, we thought 263 00:16:23,626 --> 00:16:27,526 Speaker 1: was so weird. Like, what is this green fuzz? We 264 00:16:27,566 --> 00:16:29,706 Speaker 1: hadn't been able to see a picture of the material, 265 00:16:29,906 --> 00:16:32,726 Speaker 1: so we didn't know exactly what it looked like. But 266 00:16:32,766 --> 00:16:35,546 Speaker 1: digging around in Rick's trash heap at the fort, we'd 267 00:16:35,586 --> 00:16:39,316 Speaker 1: found a swath of bright Kelly Green material. And this 268 00:16:39,366 --> 00:16:40,996 Speaker 1: is the thing that might be nothing or it might 269 00:16:41,006 --> 00:16:44,456 Speaker 1: be everything, is at the fort, we found material that 270 00:16:44,856 --> 00:16:49,506 Speaker 1: looked like It could fit that description. So would they 271 00:16:49,546 --> 00:16:53,056 Speaker 1: take the bag of underwear and the green fuzz? Detective 272 00:16:53,096 --> 00:16:55,556 Speaker 1: McCarthy looked over at his supervising lieutenant. 273 00:16:55,576 --> 00:16:59,836 Speaker 3: I've already made a decision. Obviously, you can override me. 274 00:17:00,716 --> 00:17:02,596 Speaker 3: I say we just take it and book it in evidence. 275 00:17:03,116 --> 00:17:03,956 Speaker 3: That way it's safe. 276 00:17:04,656 --> 00:17:08,086 Speaker 2: If it does become later on, if it does become 277 00:17:08,146 --> 00:17:10,856 Speaker 2: something that we want to pursue, we already have it. 278 00:17:11,666 --> 00:17:12,246 Speaker 3: It's safe. 279 00:17:12,746 --> 00:17:15,296 Speaker 2: If we just let you walk away with it, I 280 00:17:15,316 --> 00:17:17,416 Speaker 2: don't want to be second-guessed by somebody higher up the 281 00:17:17,456 --> 00:17:19,886 Speaker 2: food chain. I say we just take it into evidence 282 00:17:19,966 --> 00:17:24,746 Speaker 2: and we'll make decisions later on. By letting you walk 283 00:17:24,806 --> 00:17:29,666 Speaker 2: away with this suitcase and then something does come up later, 284 00:17:30,446 --> 00:17:31,236 Speaker 2: we already have it. 285 00:17:31,486 --> 00:17:33,476 Speaker 3: There's less issue. 286 00:17:33,876 --> 00:17:37,196 Speaker 1: Detective McCarthy cautioned us that there was no guarantee the 287 00:17:37,236 --> 00:17:39,736 Speaker 1: crime lab would agree to test the items we'd collected. 288 00:17:40,576 --> 00:17:43,136 Speaker 3: The Sheriff's Department has over. 289 00:17:43,136 --> 00:17:49,156 Speaker 2: 800 homicides that have DNA evidence, right? That's not counting 290 00:17:49,536 --> 00:17:53,196 Speaker 2: other sex crimes and other units. And we're talking into 291 00:17:53,216 --> 00:17:59,406 Speaker 2: the thousands of requests to do DNA testing. And we 292 00:17:59,426 --> 00:18:03,726 Speaker 2: get rejected all the time when we say, they want 293 00:18:03,746 --> 00:18:08,126 Speaker 2: to know, what link do you have that links this suspect? 294 00:18:10,546 --> 00:18:12,596 Speaker 2: So the first question they're going to ask is, is 295 00:18:12,636 --> 00:18:14,766 Speaker 2: this a murderer? And you know what my answer's going 296 00:18:14,806 --> 00:18:15,826 Speaker 2: to be? I don't know. 297 00:18:17,286 --> 00:18:19,366 Speaker 3: That's what my answer's going to be. So it's going 298 00:18:19,386 --> 00:18:20,746 Speaker 3: to drop on the priority list. 299 00:18:22,026 --> 00:18:24,006 Speaker 1: But by this time, I have to admit, I was 300 00:18:24,086 --> 00:18:28,706 Speaker 1: hardly listening to his management of our expectations. I was celebrating. 301 00:18:29,266 --> 00:18:31,636 Speaker 1: The underwear was going into evidence. 302 00:18:32,176 --> 00:18:35,156 Speaker 3: What we're going to do is slap an evidence sticker 303 00:18:35,236 --> 00:18:36,396 Speaker 3: on it and enter. 304 00:18:36,276 --> 00:18:36,536 Speaker 4: It in the. 305 00:18:36,996 --> 00:18:39,696 Speaker 1: Can I watch that process happen? I don't want to 306 00:18:39,736 --> 00:18:42,156 Speaker 1: miss the slapping of the evidence sticker on it. That's 307 00:18:42,176 --> 00:18:46,196 Speaker 1: going to be very satisfying for me. Haley and I 308 00:18:46,256 --> 00:18:50,176 Speaker 1: left that day feeling triumphant and exhausted. We'd been there 309 00:18:50,216 --> 00:18:54,396 Speaker 1: for almost five hours, and we'd accomplished our most important goal, 310 00:18:54,856 --> 00:18:58,416 Speaker 1: to get that potential evidence safely into the hands of 311 00:18:58,456 --> 00:19:04,496 Speaker 1: a homicide investigator. But that wasn't the last we heard 312 00:19:04,556 --> 00:19:08,516 Speaker 1: from Detective McCarthy. Two days after our afternoon at the 313 00:19:08,536 --> 00:19:12,576 Speaker 1: Homicide Bureau, he sent me another email. I couldn't believe 314 00:19:12,616 --> 00:19:15,366 Speaker 1: what I was reading. I called Haley right away. 315 00:19:15,386 --> 00:19:17,026 Speaker 3: Haley. 316 00:19:17,806 --> 00:19:18,206 Speaker 4: Yeah? 317 00:19:18,786 --> 00:19:20,606 Speaker 3: I am taping our call. 318 00:19:21,286 --> 00:19:23,426 Speaker 1: They want us to take them to the fort. Are 319 00:19:23,506 --> 00:19:24,486 Speaker 1: you serious? 320 00:19:25,046 --> 00:19:28,936 Speaker 4: Yes. Wait, okay, start from the beginning. Did they call 321 00:19:28,976 --> 00:19:30,156 Speaker 4: you or what happened? 322 00:19:30,336 --> 00:19:32,876 Speaker 1: They just emailed me and I just CC'd you on 323 00:19:32,896 --> 00:19:42,516 Speaker 1: the reply. Detective McCarthy believed us. Enough to drive over 324 00:19:42,556 --> 00:19:46,886 Speaker 1: an hour to go bushwhacking in Malibu. We were closer 325 00:19:46,926 --> 00:19:49,786 Speaker 1: than we thought possible to some kind of resolution on 326 00:19:49,826 --> 00:19:53,486 Speaker 1: Mitrice's case. I told him to bring his hiking boots. 327 00:19:53,506 --> 00:19:59,746 Speaker 1: I told him to bring his hiking boots. Hills is 328 00:19:59,766 --> 00:20:02,086 Speaker 1: a production of Western Sound and Pushkin Industries.