Speaker 1: The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. Are you ready for
Speaker 1: a break? Yes? Are you ready for a break? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Ready for a break? Yeah, and so much for that.
Speaker 1: It's time for The Break on Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: with Nick Eatman, David Hellman, and bar Garcia and Derek Eagleton.
Speaker 1: It is Wednesday, August twenty six, twenty twenty, Season sixteen,
Speaker 1: Episode number sixteen. Welcome to another edition of The Break.
Speaker 1: I am live from the virtual s WBC Mortgage Studio.
Speaker 1: I got Dave Hellman, Nick Eatman, Amber Garcia along with me,
Speaker 1: and we got an hour of Cowboys talk for you
Speaker 1: guys right here on the Break. We're going to get
Speaker 1: into a lot of topics today. Actually, we're gonna do
Speaker 1: some camp battles. Cowboys about halfway through training camp at
Speaker 1: this point. It's hard to believe, but in proximbly two
Speaker 1: and a half weeks, Cowboys will be playing their first
Speaker 1: game against the Rams in Los Angeles. But we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about some camp battles. We have about six different
Speaker 1: positions that we're going to talk about, some different players
Speaker 1: and how they're performing, how they're competing. But before we
Speaker 1: get to that, we have to start with a topic
Speaker 1: that we've talked about many times on this show before
Speaker 1: and thought we were done with the topic until late
Speaker 1: last week when Earl Thomas became available because the Baltimore
Speaker 1: Ravens cut him. So let's talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: this guys. Jerry says yesterday in an interview that he
Speaker 1: did with our local radio partner, The Fan, we're just
Speaker 1: weighing where we are on the roster right now. He
Speaker 1: was noncommittal that the Cowboys would actually have interest in
Speaker 1: signing him, but he also made it clear that anybody
Speaker 1: reporting that they are not interested doesn't know what they're
Speaker 1: talking about. So I'll start first with just Earl Thomas
Speaker 1: as a player based upon what the Cowboys have right
Speaker 1: now on their roster, and understand that Jerry says, they're
Speaker 1: looking at the roster, looking at their own safeties. Where
Speaker 1: do you think Earl Thomas would rate relative to those guys?
Speaker 1: Does he come in, Is he immediately much better, becomes
Speaker 1: a starter, so maybe it makes it worth it, or
Speaker 1: do you think at this point in his career maybe
Speaker 1: there's a bit of a decline and he just kind
Speaker 1: of fits in, it's maybe not worth the hassle of
Speaker 1: bringing him in. I'll start first with you, Nick. His
Speaker 1: last game was the Pro Bowl. He's going to be
Speaker 1: better than anybody on the team at safety. He's better
Speaker 1: than those guys. They know that going in. They don't
Speaker 1: need to see more tape of Darien Thompson or Xavier
Speaker 1: Woods or Haha to realize where he's gonna fit. They're trying,
Speaker 1: I think they're trying to weigh the three pages of
Speaker 1: baggage that come with them and see if it fits in.
Speaker 1: But in my mind, he's still head and shoulders above
Speaker 1: every safety on this team and probably all but one
Speaker 1: or two in the NFL amber. I mean, there's not
Speaker 1: much to add to that. That's a guy that has
Speaker 1: so much experience. The upside is that the coaches have
Speaker 1: plenty of tape that they can look at to evaluate
Speaker 1: him compared to all these younger guys that it's just
Speaker 1: so much difficult to really know how these players are
Speaker 1: really going to turn out when the lights come on
Speaker 1: in a real game. So he has the whole advantage
Speaker 1: that he is a proven player, He has the experience,
Speaker 1: and we've been talking about him for what three years now,
Speaker 1: so we know that he has the talent, and I
Speaker 1: think he would be the best guy within the group
Speaker 1: that the Cowboys currently have. Dave, I do want to
Speaker 1: I want to say, at least for the record, I mean,
Speaker 1: you would not be signing the earl from the twenty
Speaker 1: thirteen and twenty fourteen legion of Boom. I don't think
Speaker 1: he's that player anymore. But it's a testament to the
Speaker 1: work that the Cowboys have not done at the safety
Speaker 1: position that he would still easily be an upgrade over
Speaker 1: what they have. I don't think there's any question about it.
Speaker 1: I don't think you know you're getting in above average
Speaker 1: safety instead of an elite one at this point in
Speaker 1: his career. Probably, but there's no evidence that says they
Speaker 1: have another above average safety. So yeah, I mean's his
Speaker 1: game has probably dropped off a decent amount, but he
Speaker 1: would still be an upgrade. And that's, you know, to
Speaker 1: nixt point, that ain't the question. So I guess let's
Speaker 1: go and talk about that question. I think we all
Speaker 1: agree and Earl Thomas is from a play standpoint above
Speaker 1: what maybe you have already on the roster. How much
Speaker 1: do the things that are off the field the things
Speaker 1: that happened in Baltimore. How much of those things concern you.
Speaker 1: He had to in a situation that came up with
Speaker 1: his wife during the offseason where she pulled a gun
Speaker 1: on him. We had a situation, obviously with the Baltimore
Speaker 1: Ravens where there was a teammate who we got into
Speaker 1: a fight with, and supposedly reports are that their their
Speaker 1: team inner council made it clear to the head coach
Speaker 1: and others in the organization that they were okay with
Speaker 1: the idea of him no longer being with them. All
Speaker 1: that being said, how can start do you with those
Speaker 1: other issues that come along with Earl Thomas. Let's start
Speaker 1: with you, Amber. I am done after hearing all of this.
Speaker 1: I am done with the whole Earl Thomas hype and
Speaker 1: wanting the Cowboys to sign him. Honestly, when it comes
Speaker 1: to all those off field issues, to me, I look,
Speaker 1: those things are very very important, especially when you hear
Speaker 1: the severity of it. You should never, ever, no matter
Speaker 1: what the situation was on the field, you should never
Speaker 1: get into a delayma or a fight with a teammate.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's acceptable and that really hurts your
Speaker 1: locker room You don't want that from a veteran guy.
Speaker 1: You don't want that from someone that you would expect
Speaker 1: to be a leader in the group. So I just
Speaker 1: don't think it's healthy for the locker room and the
Speaker 1: relationship and the dynamic that this team has finally being
Speaker 1: able to build during the past couple of years. Dave,
Speaker 1: you know, I have I have a few thoughts about this. Um. I.
Speaker 1: It's obviously bad. There's obviously a lot of baggage. Um. Clearly,
Speaker 1: it's not one thing that leads you to get kicked
Speaker 1: off of a team like that. Having said that, I
Speaker 1: will say this is there's this is a very popular
Speaker 1: playbook with NFL teams. Is this? You know, this stuff
Speaker 1: never leaks out until the guy is gone, and then
Speaker 1: when you want an argument for cutting him, there's this
Speaker 1: mountain of evidence that nobody ever talked about. You know,
Speaker 1: we experienced it with Dez Bryant to a degree where
Speaker 1: he had all of these quirks that were funny and
Speaker 1: charming when he was very good, and then when they
Speaker 1: wanted to justify getting rid of him, he was the
Speaker 1: worst person in the world. Um. Having said that, every year,
Speaker 1: if you follow the NFL, the Baltimore Ravens are so
Speaker 1: highly thought of for how smart they are. They kill
Speaker 1: the draft every year. They find guys like Lamar Jackson
Speaker 1: outside the first round. They trade a fifth round pick
Speaker 1: for Klais Campbell. You know, they are smart. They're one
Speaker 1: of the best run organizations in the NFL. And for
Speaker 1: them to be willing to eat that contract to get
Speaker 1: rid of him says a lot to me. Like they're
Speaker 1: just like, we don't care if we have to pay
Speaker 1: you this. We want you gone. Our players want you gone.
Speaker 1: That's a fourteen and two team that was a game
Speaker 1: away from the NFC or the AFC championship game. That's
Speaker 1: troubling to me. So it's, yeah, I don't know. It
Speaker 1: gives me a lot of pause, all right, you know,
Speaker 1: Da Dave. Your point is it reminds me of when
Speaker 1: Seattle traded for Jamal Adams, and it's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: the Cowboys they couldn't afford that if that's the price,
Speaker 1: But Seattle can afford it because Seattle has done better.
Speaker 1: They're in the playoffs every year, they've drafted better, they've
Speaker 1: got better players around it, and they've got a quarterback
Speaker 1: locked up, so they could do that where the Cowboys couldn't.
Speaker 1: That brings me back to your point there. The Baltimore
Speaker 1: Ravens are like, we can't. We're good, we don't need that.
Speaker 1: While it's troubling, the Cowboys are not in that situation.
Speaker 1: The Cowboys need players like that, and so they're not
Speaker 1: in the same boat of saying we'll figure it out
Speaker 1: because we got these other guys. The Cowboys have been
Speaker 1: trying to figure out safety since this guy, Darren Woodson,
Speaker 1: so they're in a different boat. And Jerry nineteen ninety two,
Speaker 1: September of ninety two. I'm not sure everybody on this
Speaker 1: show was alive then, or at least out of diapers.
Speaker 1: But Jerry still remembers that Charles Haley came in and
Speaker 1: lifted this team to another level. He still knows that
Speaker 1: that might be twenty eight years ago or twenty seventy
Speaker 1: or whatever, but he knows that, and he still relies
Speaker 1: on maybe Earl Thomas or maybe these guys, is that
Speaker 1: one thing we need to go over the top. So,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people in this organization I
Speaker 1: think are agreeing with you guys, but Jerry is it
Speaker 1: holds the cards, and I think Jerry still thinks this
Speaker 1: guy might be the one if he remember to be
Speaker 1: clear about this, Okay, but if if he remembers Charles Hayley,
Speaker 1: I hope he remembers Greg Hardy too, because it can
Speaker 1: go the other way. I'm just saying, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: without it, without a doubt, it can. But I mean
Speaker 1: that and I think that this is this football team
Speaker 1: is probably not gonna go four and twelve. I mean
Speaker 1: Greg Hardy, Greg Hardy wasn't going to help that that team,
Speaker 1: and yet Greg Hardy destroyed the locker room. I mean
Speaker 1: that there's no doubt about it. But I think the
Speaker 1: difference is between those teams is Charles Hayley didn't come
Speaker 1: in and and he wasn't necessarily the leader that that
Speaker 1: that team was already kind of getting established. Greg Hardy
Speaker 1: played games when Kellen Moore was the quarterback and Brandon
Speaker 1: Wheaton and Castle and all that where that that whole
Speaker 1: year was kind of dysfunctional. But um, you're right, I
Speaker 1: mean you can you can always say that there's the reasons.
Speaker 1: I mean, and there's a lot more than Gregg Hardy's
Speaker 1: He's lost more than he has won. When you're taking
Speaker 1: chances on these guys of a couple in the two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight season come to mind. But you know,
Speaker 1: this year seems kind of different, so I could see where,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe this will work. Maybe yeah, I'll throw
Speaker 1: this out too, Dave. I know you mentioned, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes it becomes just kind of something that people say
Speaker 1: once a guy's gone. It's a convenient thing. But you know,
Speaker 1: I'll you use the example of Dez Bryan. I'll say,
Speaker 1: even when Dez was here, we heard about things internally
Speaker 1: that weren't necessarily publicly known, but things that were happening
Speaker 1: during the time when Dez was here, where there were
Speaker 1: some eyebrows being raised within the building about certain things
Speaker 1: he was doing and sometimes getting away with. So I
Speaker 1: don't know that I necessarily dismiss a lot of those
Speaker 1: things that come out once a player's gone. I actually
Speaker 1: take the other approach. I actually look at it and
Speaker 1: say a lot of times the truth actually comes out
Speaker 1: when a player has gone because there are no consequences
Speaker 1: to the truth coming out. So I tend to believe
Speaker 1: some of the stuff we're hearing about what's coming out
Speaker 1: of ball to more. I just personally believe the guy
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit better than the problems that maybe
Speaker 1: he was having there go ahead day. Well, I will
Speaker 1: also say the other and that's a good point. You know,
Speaker 1: when there's no consequences, you can speak more freely. The
Speaker 1: other thing is you're willing to put up with that
Speaker 1: stuff if a guy's amazing, and you know, Dez wasn't
Speaker 1: amazing anymore when they decided to move on from him.
Speaker 1: And I still maintain my point that Earl is probably no,
Speaker 1: he's definitely better than what the Cowboys have, but is
Speaker 1: he on that level where he is worth that headache?
Speaker 1: I mean, if he is Barnum the best safety in
Speaker 1: the NFL, sure, if he's the twelfth best safety in
Speaker 1: the NFL, is it's still worth it? And I think
Speaker 1: that's probably what they're weighing, or have been weighing, you know,
Speaker 1: this week. You know, but Camper, I was gonna say
Speaker 1: real quick, it makes me wonder. We know how much
Speaker 1: Earl has been wanting to be a part of the
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys, so it makes me wonder if he was
Speaker 1: to get here and be signed by the Cowboys, does
Speaker 1: he change his behavior? Does he go from doing all
Speaker 1: these things to now, let me put it all my
Speaker 1: good boy, hat and do good here and just act
Speaker 1: better and try to be that kind of leader because
Speaker 1: he wants to be with the Cowboys. So this is
Speaker 1: a tough one, honestly. But you know, everything that is
Speaker 1: that you can read about him stems from he seems unhappy.
Speaker 1: He means he was unhappy in Seattle to the point
Speaker 1: to run all the way to the other locker room.
Speaker 1: And if you're not a Cowboy fan, you hate that.
Speaker 1: Cowboy fans didn't bother because they're like, wow, maybe he
Speaker 1: wants to come here, but that's terrible for a player
Speaker 1: to really do that. Now. I think she makes a
Speaker 1: good point though. If this is where he ultimately wants
Speaker 1: to be, then and he also has to figure out
Speaker 1: do you want to play football or not? I mean,
Speaker 1: do you want to be remembered as this guy and
Speaker 1: kind of tarnish your career or do you want to say, hey,
Speaker 1: let's get it together, let's play. You're you're with the
Speaker 1: team you want to be, your back closer to home
Speaker 1: at act right, put on your good boy hat if
Speaker 1: there is one, and and you know what else do
Speaker 1: you need? I mean, we've got it. You know, an
Speaker 1: offense here for you that that should score some points.
Speaker 1: We got seventeen pass rushers in front. I mean, what
Speaker 1: else is there? So I think I think he might
Speaker 1: look at this and go, this would be you know,
Speaker 1: I've got to act right and I've got to you know,
Speaker 1: clean this thing up. Yeah. I think the other point
Speaker 1: you remember there is that you also have to remember
Speaker 1: that when it comes to these guys, really not just
Speaker 1: these guys, I'm talking about people in general. When you
Speaker 1: insert a person into a group dynamic, they may not
Speaker 1: fit in one group, and then they moved to another
Speaker 1: group and may fit very perfectly. Right. We don't know
Speaker 1: the dynamics of that group. We don't know what players
Speaker 1: he got along with didn't get along with. We don't
Speaker 1: know who was the leader and who wasn't like, who
Speaker 1: was saying things that maybe he took offense to, or
Speaker 1: what was he saying that maybe someone else took offense to.
Speaker 1: Are those same dynamics here in Dallas? We don't know.
Speaker 1: I do want no one thing that I personally believe.
Speaker 1: I'll ask this question to you, guys. I think that
Speaker 1: the veterans, particularly on the defensive side of the ball,
Speaker 1: and this team particular, particularly people like like like take
Speaker 1: Um I think there are strong personalities. I think they
Speaker 1: have skins on the wall, Um, and I think they
Speaker 1: they would challenge him in a way that I think
Speaker 1: he would respect and maybe vice versa. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, again, I don't know what the dynamic was
Speaker 1: in Baltimore, but my question for you guys is do
Speaker 1: you think that the leadership here on this team, and
Speaker 1: you could specify on the defense, is strong enough that
Speaker 1: even if he were to come here and something were
Speaker 1: to go wrong, that there would that that it wouldn't
Speaker 1: destroy the locker room because they have good leadership. Let's
Speaker 1: start with with you, Dave. I think, I mean, you
Speaker 1: laid it out really nicely, and I absolutely think that
Speaker 1: they do have the you know, they have the character
Speaker 1: to whether that between Tank Tyrone Crawford, UM, Jalen Smiths,
Speaker 1: Layton Vanner Esh. I mean, the list goes on, but
Speaker 1: I'll bring it up again, Um, that twenty fifth team
Speaker 1: was not devoid of guys with skins on the wall.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know he got hurt, but Tony Romo
Speaker 1: was here. Dez Bryant was coming off the best season
Speaker 1: of his career. Say what you will about his production,
Speaker 1: but Jeremy Mincy was a respected and well liked leader
Speaker 1: of that team. You know, he won the Good Guy
Speaker 1: Award two years in a row. Brandon Carr was here,
Speaker 1: a high character guy with a lot of skins on
Speaker 1: the wall, and it didn't stop Greg Hardy from just
Speaker 1: messing everything up. And you don't want to put all
Speaker 1: the blame on him, but I think that was instrumental
Speaker 1: in getting Randy Gregory off the right track. So to
Speaker 1: some degree, I agree with you, but I also just
Speaker 1: I don't think you can predict it that cleanly. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, all all those guys were here last year,
Speaker 1: and we all agree the chemistry wasn't there for the
Speaker 1: defense last year. There were some big time problems, especially
Speaker 1: toward the end of the season when things were frustrating,
Speaker 1: and that was with Tank here and Jalen here, and
Speaker 1: again I know it was hurt, but Tyrone Crawford was
Speaker 1: still hanging around. I mean, to some degree, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure that even the best locker room can combat that
Speaker 1: stuff perfectly. And that's why this gives me so much pause. Honestly, Well,
Speaker 1: let me ask you this, though, Dave. I want to
Speaker 1: make sure I'm clear you believe that that Greg Hardy
Speaker 1: basically was the reason for poor play or do you
Speaker 1: think it just affected that room or do you think
Speaker 1: it affected the entire defense? What are you saying about
Speaker 1: what Greg Hardy brought brought Greg Hardy brought to the team.
Speaker 1: I think he had a really negative impact on the
Speaker 1: locker room in a lot of ways. I mean, I
Speaker 1: thought that was pretty well documented. Okay, well what happens, Well,
Speaker 1: what happens there is you're also you also got to
Speaker 1: remember who was the best player on that defense, Greg Hardy.
Speaker 1: He was the best player. Now he was a problem
Speaker 1: off the field. He was problem on the field. That's
Speaker 1: there's really no difference between that and tarall Owens. When
Speaker 1: you get a guy in here whose talent is better
Speaker 1: than the others. David Irving's another example too, David Irving
Speaker 1: a guy. These guys play well on the field, it's
Speaker 1: hard to justify what they're doing. Then off the field
Speaker 1: they don't do everything they need to. So why if
Speaker 1: you're a young guy in Hardy's case, Greg Randy, Gregory,
Speaker 1: DeMarcus Lawrence, why should they be showing up early to meetings?
Speaker 1: Why should they not fall asleep in meetings? This guy's
Speaker 1: doing it and he's fine. It's like we say all
Speaker 1: the time, Derek, they these guys halt leadership. It's hard
Speaker 1: to be a leader because you can't tell let's say
Speaker 1: Earl Thomas comes here and he does it a certain
Speaker 1: way and Don Wilson's like, well that's the way I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do it, or that you know, Xavier Woods like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it that way too. That hurts leadership
Speaker 1: because you can't tell this guy one way he's better
Speaker 1: than you, he can do it this way. That That's
Speaker 1: why it's it's kind of tricky though, So you can
Speaker 1: say that about Greg Hardy. Greg Hardy was the best
Speaker 1: player on the team. He showed up after four games,
Speaker 1: sack Brady twice before halftime. I mean, but was it
Speaker 1: worth it? No, it wasn't. So it's a leadership strong Enamber.
Speaker 1: I just go back to what Dave said. There are
Speaker 1: some things that you might not be able to change
Speaker 1: with strong leadership. I think that it does help that
Speaker 1: you have some guys like Tank in the locker room.
Speaker 1: It does help that this is the place where a
Speaker 1: guy like Errol Thomas wants to be or says he
Speaker 1: wants to be. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: those and even the examples that Dave and Nick just said,
Speaker 1: You see what happened there. These guys didn't hold up.
Speaker 1: And maybe all you need is one season from this guy,
Speaker 1: and maybe you're content with that and it works out.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, me personally, I
Speaker 1: don't think it's worth the headache. All Right, I want
Speaker 1: to flip this conversation a little bit and take you
Speaker 1: back when we first started talking about all the safeties
Speaker 1: at the position. Earlier this week we heard Mike McCarthy
Speaker 1: talking about Darien Thompson and having a lot of praise
Speaker 1: for him, and you look at just what they have
Speaker 1: at safety, I think you'd probably characterize, or at least
Speaker 1: I'll characterize it as a lot of relatively young guys
Speaker 1: that are that are obviously not where Earl Thomas ever
Speaker 1: was in his career, but maybe and even at this point,
Speaker 1: probably aren't as good as Earl Thomas, but maybe they
Speaker 1: are as sending players and maybe can reach a level
Speaker 1: of where Earl is right now, not necessarily where he
Speaker 1: was when he was the best safety or among the
Speaker 1: two or three best safeties in the league, but at
Speaker 1: least get to the point where they are above average safeties.
Speaker 1: Do you think that the Cowboys should consider that If
Speaker 1: you agree with that premise and consider the fact that
Speaker 1: maybe you just stick with your young guys and let
Speaker 1: them continue to develop by getting more snaps rather than
Speaker 1: bringing in a guy like Earl Thomas. Let's start with you, Dave.
Speaker 1: That's and you know, I hate to sound like I'm
Speaker 1: riding the fence. Like at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: if the deal was right, if the money was right,
Speaker 1: and Earl said the right stuff, I would probably be
Speaker 1: fine with them signing him. Because that's I don't feel
Speaker 1: great about this situation. You know, it's hard to judge
Speaker 1: who's starting and who's gonna start, and they don't even
Speaker 1: want us to talk about it anyway. But the early
Speaker 1: returns on haha, Clinton Dix don't look amazing. You know,
Speaker 1: he's not lighting camp on fire. And Darian Thompson, I
Speaker 1: think at this point, you know, they love him going
Speaker 1: back to the last coaching staff, but we haven't seen
Speaker 1: that play out on the field. Same thing with with
Speaker 1: Donovan Wilson. He's the fan favorite. We haven't seen a
Speaker 1: play out on the field. So I don't feel great
Speaker 1: about what they have and that's what convinced. That's what
Speaker 1: keeps me from just saying absolutely not to Earl. So
Speaker 1: I don't have a great answer, But if they go
Speaker 1: into the season with this group, I think it's fair
Speaker 1: to call it the weakest position group on the roster,
Speaker 1: all right, Nick, I think tight end could challenge that.
Speaker 1: But but I think that the problem though on safety
Speaker 1: is if it's not safety or tight end, maybe it's cornerback.
Speaker 1: So you got your whole secondary back there that you
Speaker 1: know who's going to be leaning on who I mean,
Speaker 1: cornerbacks are unproven and then and the safety as well,
Speaker 1: so you know, getting a guy in there like that
Speaker 1: could kind of shore up your entire secondary. It'd be
Speaker 1: one thing if the corners were pretty solid, you don't
Speaker 1: worried about them, just safety, but the whole I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I might trust the safety is more
Speaker 1: than I trust the corners. So that that's I think
Speaker 1: that right there is something that needs to be addressed.
Speaker 1: Amber to me, it's frustrating knowing that we've been talking
Speaker 1: about the safety position for over three years and the
Speaker 1: fact that this is where we still stand, and that
Speaker 1: they have not necessarily addressed the position and over these
Speaker 1: period this amount of years. I mean, you're in this
Speaker 1: spot because you wanted to be in this spot. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is all on you. And if you're okay with that,
Speaker 1: then fine, let it be. I guess I just the
Speaker 1: thing is when you hear Jerry Jones always say I
Speaker 1: can sign this guy if I want to. Basically, you know,
Speaker 1: I get deals done and they have the ability to
Speaker 1: do that, and I know that many many things going
Speaker 1: to play when that's just not as simple as that.
Speaker 1: You know, there are things, money, years, other things that
Speaker 1: you need to look at when giving someone a contract.
Speaker 1: But the fact that it's been this long and we're
Speaker 1: still sitting here one I'm talking about the safety position
Speaker 1: to talking about Errol Thomas. It's just really frustrating and
Speaker 1: right now as I'm taking it, and I hate when
Speaker 1: I hear Mike McCarthy talking about, oh yeah, we love
Speaker 1: the flexibility about corners and safeties and they're interchangeable. I
Speaker 1: hate that mentality. Yes, it sounds great, but at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, when you have that kind of flexibility,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna get a great guy. You're not gonna
Speaker 1: get someone that's gonna be great at one specific decision
Speaker 1: when they have to be moving around. So, um, I
Speaker 1: forgot what your question was, but that's just how I
Speaker 1: feel about it at the moment, Nick, did you have something?
Speaker 1: I was waving at Mickey Oh walking by, I waved
Speaker 1: at him, Now I did. I did go like that
Speaker 1: when when she said we've been talking about safety for
Speaker 1: three years, you might be talking about for three years.
Speaker 1: We've been talking about it for a long time, ever
Speaker 1: since that guy was playing. I mean, it's just never
Speaker 1: been a position that's really been addressed. And you know,
Speaker 1: they they've always kind of gotten away with your or
Speaker 1: trying to get away with it, and I think it
Speaker 1: at some point they need to do it. And again
Speaker 1: I agree with Dave. This is I don't think it's
Speaker 1: an elite player anymore. But uh, like I said before,
Speaker 1: I mean his last game was the Pro Bowl, So
Speaker 1: his one year in Baltimore wasn't that bad. Not everybody
Speaker 1: in Baltimore made the Pro Bowl that year. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's it is a tricky one. It's it's really
Speaker 1: a dilemma the Cowboys have to figure out here real
Speaker 1: quick before we go to our first break. I do
Speaker 1: want to go around the room and I want you
Speaker 1: guys to tell me, do you think that this will
Speaker 1: actually happen? Based upon everything you know right now and
Speaker 1: what you know of the Cowboys and Jerry Jones, do
Speaker 1: you think this happens a star with you, Amber, I don't.
Speaker 1: This is so hard. I don't. Honestly, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. And it's one of those things
Speaker 1: I know it happens quite a few with different guys
Speaker 1: where you got Jerry one in one thing, and then
Speaker 1: a group of other people are not necessarily wanting the
Speaker 1: same thing, and it's just that constant battle there of
Speaker 1: what they like. Do they meet in the middle, But
Speaker 1: then what's the middle? Because it's one or the other.
Speaker 1: So as of right now, I would say it doesn't
Speaker 1: happen all right, Nick, Yeah, I do. I'm a believer
Speaker 1: there's smoke somewhere, there's a fire. I believe that there's
Speaker 1: been some smoke for a long time. And I think
Speaker 1: that this is a position of need. And I think
Speaker 1: that he's made it clear he wants to come here.
Speaker 1: Seattle played sixteen games that year. I don't think he
Speaker 1: ran to every locker room. I think he wants to
Speaker 1: be here, And you know then and here now is
Speaker 1: better than it was when he was chasing Jason Garrett
Speaker 1: in the locker room. You know, this is I think,
Speaker 1: a better team. So yeah, I do think it'll happen, Dave.
Speaker 1: I don't want to make it sound too dramatic, but
Speaker 1: I think whatever happens, I think it'll it'll say something about,
Speaker 1: you know, who has the final say? Because if if
Speaker 1: everybody was in lock step and totally felt the same way,
Speaker 1: then the wheels would already be moving on this. You know,
Speaker 1: he's he's been free since Sunday afternoon and it's Wednesday
Speaker 1: and nothing has really happened. I mean, if everybody in
Speaker 1: the organization wanted him here, he'd be here by now,
Speaker 1: or at the very least, you know, they'd be talking
Speaker 1: to him or whatever. And is that still up for debate, David?
Speaker 1: Is what was that question? Is that question ever in
Speaker 1: the debate of who's got the final say? Is that?
Speaker 1: Is that something that we need to figure out? I
Speaker 1: thought we've known for thirty years. No, I guess not
Speaker 1: that who has the final say? But basically, what I'm
Speaker 1: trying to say is, if if Earl winds up here,
Speaker 1: it's because Jerry Jones said no, I want this guy,
Speaker 1: and when I say I'm not, when I when I
Speaker 1: say I'm not trying to make it sound dramatic, I
Speaker 1: don't think that means him and Mike McCarthy are having
Speaker 1: a you know, knockdown, drag out fight about it. But
Speaker 1: the sense that I get is, you know, Mike and
Speaker 1: Will are more along the lines of, like, am maybe
Speaker 1: we don't need to be messing with this right now?
Speaker 1: And then you know, Jerry comes along and there was
Speaker 1: all of this momentum building yesterday that said the Cowboys
Speaker 1: aren't interested, and Jerry went on one oh five through
Speaker 1: the fan and kind of blew that whole thing up,
Speaker 1: which just goes to show that, you know, I think
Speaker 1: Jerry was sending a very deliberate reminder that hey, I'd
Speaker 1: still have the final say here in case anybody forgot. So.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to happen, But if it
Speaker 1: does happen, I think it's because the owner and general
Speaker 1: manager at it too. I will say this, I think
Speaker 1: we're reading and I shouldn't say we, Dave. I think
Speaker 1: you're reading this a little bit differently than I'm reading it.
Speaker 1: I look at it as in the same way it
Speaker 1: took a long time for the Cowboys. Cowboys to come
Speaker 1: around on a deal with Everson Griffin. Like Everson Griffin
Speaker 1: has been out there for a while, it took a
Speaker 1: while before they got to the point where they were
Speaker 1: ready to make a deal. And I think part of
Speaker 1: that was because they wanted a deal. And I think
Speaker 1: that's the way the Cowboys operate. I don't think the
Speaker 1: Cowboys are in the business of saying, hey, we want
Speaker 1: Earl Thomas so badly that we're willing to give him
Speaker 1: a two or three four year deal. I think they're
Speaker 1: probably looking at Earl Thomas and thinking, hey, if nobody
Speaker 1: else out there wants him and he wants to come
Speaker 1: here for a one year deal, that's something that's you know,
Speaker 1: fair but not great, then maybe we're still in the business.
Speaker 1: And I think that's how they're looking at it. So
Speaker 1: I think that's why Jerry was noncommittal. I think it's
Speaker 1: about timing. I think they're gonna wait and see what happens,
Speaker 1: and if there's another team out there that once his
Speaker 1: service is so bad that they're willing to give him
Speaker 1: a three or four year deal, I think the Cowboys
Speaker 1: are out if they can let it get to the
Speaker 1: point where Earl sees, hey, I don't have a lot
Speaker 1: of options. I want to go to Dallas. I'll do
Speaker 1: it on a one year deal. I'll try to go
Speaker 1: to Robert Quinn route and try to play my butt
Speaker 1: off this year on that one year deal and see
Speaker 1: if I can leverage that into another deal after that,
Speaker 1: a longer term deal after that. Then that's the way
Speaker 1: I go. And then both parties meet because both people
Speaker 1: are motivated or both parties are motivated to do a deal.
Speaker 1: I think ultimately that's how it gets done. So to me,
Speaker 1: it's really about timing, and I think that ultimately will
Speaker 1: decide whether Earl Thomas as a Dallas cowboy or not.
Speaker 1: I completely agree with you. I guess my only my
Speaker 1: caveat there would be you get kicked off one team
Speaker 1: for conduct detrimental three months after you're involved in a
Speaker 1: domestic dispute. I just assume that that kills whatever leverage
Speaker 1: Earl Thomas had. And maybe that's not true. That's my assumption.
Speaker 1: So you're right, you know what I mean? Could there
Speaker 1: be a suspension coming too because of all this? No, no, no,
Speaker 1: let's be clear. When you say a domestic dispute. Earl
Speaker 1: was not arrested or charged with anything. It was actually
Speaker 1: his wife that ended up in trouble. He was doing
Speaker 1: some I know, I'm saying. I didn't want anybody to
Speaker 1: get the wrong impression that that Earl was arrested on
Speaker 1: domestic in a domestic dispute, or that he was involved
Speaker 1: in a domestic violence type situation. That wasn't the situation.
Speaker 1: He was doing some stuff he probably morally shouldn't be doing,
Speaker 1: according to reports, but it was more his wife that
Speaker 1: was the He was not was not arrested or charged,
Speaker 1: but he was involved in a situation. And you can
Speaker 1: go read and read about it if you haven't. Yeh. Hey,
Speaker 1: I say this all the time. I know we got
Speaker 1: to go to break, but I say this all the time.
Speaker 1: I don't care if the guy's a bad guy or not,
Speaker 1: if he can play in the NFL, Like if he's
Speaker 1: allowed to play, but like like she just said, it's
Speaker 1: not going to be suspended. If he's allowed to walk
Speaker 1: the streets based off of our you know, judicial system,
Speaker 1: then I don't care about it. Because I'll say this.
Speaker 1: The fans and you guys have heard me say this.
Speaker 1: The fans don't care if Brandon Carr spends all of
Speaker 1: his time at the community center. They don't care. Can
Speaker 1: you cover? Can you not? Can you stop Odell from
Speaker 1: you know, turning you into a highlight? Can you play?
Speaker 1: So if they don't care about the good guys, they
Speaker 1: just want a guy who can play, then why should
Speaker 1: we care about this? Can he play? That's the question.
Speaker 1: If he can play, I'd bring him here. Yeah, But
Speaker 1: it sounds more and more like this is more of
Speaker 1: a t O issue than an eight than Antonio Brown issue,
Speaker 1: Like this is more of an issue of his personality
Speaker 1: and him classic with people, and that tends to be
Speaker 1: more of the problem. And I think that's really, to
Speaker 1: be quite honest, with a bigger issue that fans would
Speaker 1: care about because that's about the locker room, right, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: I mean this locker room. These leaders in the locker
Speaker 1: room have led them to eight wins in the last
Speaker 1: few years. I mean, how good are the leaders? I mean,
Speaker 1: just because you bark loud doesn't mean you can bite. So,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they do need somebody to shake it
Speaker 1: up a little bit. All right, with that, we'll take
Speaker 1: our first break. We'll come back let's get into some
Speaker 1: camp battles. We're gonna talk about some players and what
Speaker 1: they've been doing during training camp and some positions where
Speaker 1: there may be some jobs on the line. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about that when we come right back. This is Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys dot com Radio. We're back in the tasty treat.
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Speaker 1: It's funny as we travel places, often we find the
Speaker 1: places we want to travel aren't really places at all.
Speaker 1: They're people, their grandparents, moms, old friends, and new nephews.
Speaker 1: That's why at American Airlines we've been using enhanced cleaning
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Speaker 1: Slash United to join today. Welcome back to the second
Speaker 1: segment of the Break. We are live from the virtual
Speaker 1: s WBC Mortis Studios. Nick's at the Star. Actually on
Speaker 1: this off day for the team, they'll resume practices tomorrow
Speaker 1: on Thursday and Friday of this week. Saturday, there is
Speaker 1: no practice, and then Sunday we have our specials what's
Speaker 1: called Cowboys Night. It'll be an opportunity for you guys
Speaker 1: to see a little bit of this team. We will
Speaker 1: be streaming it live on all of our channels. It'll
Speaker 1: be locally here on our CBS affiliate TXA twenty one,
Speaker 1: and so you'll just have an opportunity to check out
Speaker 1: the team. Michael Overn, Nate Newton, Bill Jones will be
Speaker 1: hosting it. Our guys, Nick Dave Rob maybe some other guys.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure who all is going to be from
Speaker 1: our team and going to be a part of that,
Speaker 1: but we'll have a lot of different a lot of
Speaker 1: different analysis coming from different folks throughout that practice, just
Speaker 1: giving you guys a good look at this team and
Speaker 1: some analysis around what has been happening in training camp
Speaker 1: and heading into the season, so make sure you check
Speaker 1: that out. Let's talk a little bit though about training
Speaker 1: camp battles. I remember at the beginning of training camp
Speaker 1: Mike McCarthy mentioned that there were He had the typical
Speaker 1: coach speak, there's battles at every position. Every position is
Speaker 1: about competition, and certainly that is the case as the
Speaker 1: way the coaches look at it. But realistically there are
Speaker 1: only a few spots, and certainly starting spots, where where
Speaker 1: you could make an argument that the position is kind
Speaker 1: of up for grabs heading into camp. What I did
Speaker 1: was identified I identified five different positions that I want
Speaker 1: to talk to you guys about where I think there's
Speaker 1: at least some competition, not necessarily for starting roles in
Speaker 1: all of them, but certainly from the standpoint of roles
Speaker 1: people that will play significant amount of time, or people
Speaker 1: that will have unique backup spots that are about roster spots.
Speaker 1: Let's start first with the left guard position, Connor Williams,
Speaker 1: Connor McGovern. Let's first start talking to me about what
Speaker 1: you've seen from both of those guys here throughout the
Speaker 1: first couple of weeks of camp. Let's start first with you, Dave.
Speaker 1: I've seen Connor Williams out there doing stuff on a
Speaker 1: regular basis. Ironically, he took yesterday off. I think it
Speaker 1: was more of a maintenance day than anything. But for
Speaker 1: a guy that's nine months removed from a tour and acl,
Speaker 1: I mean, he jumped right in. He wasn't on the pup.
Speaker 1: He's getting reps from the very beginning, and Connor McGovern
Speaker 1: is definitely mixed in. But I am under the impression
Speaker 1: that that job is Connor Williams. And maybe that's subject
Speaker 1: to change, but that's just how I feel so far.
Speaker 1: I think I think he's looked good. Nick, you agreed
Speaker 1: everything Dave said. He's doesn't look like a competition to me.
Speaker 1: And you know, we don't get a chance to really
Speaker 1: we don't get a chance to talk to players at
Speaker 1: all or receive them. We got the chance to talk
Speaker 1: to Connor the other day, Connor Williams, and you know,
Speaker 1: he just seems I don't know, it seems like he's
Speaker 1: ready to take this year on differently, third year now,
Speaker 1: this is this is a big season for him, and
Speaker 1: I think this is not really much of a competition. Amber.
Speaker 1: I agree, and I mean not to say Connor mcgoverny.
Speaker 1: I think he's been doing a good job so far,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, what I've seen from him,
Speaker 1: you can tell he still needs growth. He's still I mean,
Speaker 1: remember he barely had a season last year. He was
Speaker 1: out with the injury, the pectorial injury, and that really
Speaker 1: hurt him in his development. So this year, I feel
Speaker 1: like he's backing his rookie year, doing the things that
Speaker 1: you usually see a rookie doing the first year. And
Speaker 1: he's doing a good job so far, but just not
Speaker 1: at the level to be right there competing with the
Speaker 1: other Connor Williams right now, actually, Aber, I want you
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about Connor Williams and his trajectory.
Speaker 1: I know, for fans out there that don't know, we
Speaker 1: actually have a documentary, a Deep Blue documentary we're gonna
Speaker 1: be putting out in about a week and a half
Speaker 1: from now. That Amber that you put together. You did
Speaker 1: the whole thing really really well done, really great storytelling,
Speaker 1: but in the you kind of dive into his trajectory,
Speaker 1: his story, and particularly one of the things that struck
Speaker 1: me was kind of how he had to manage those
Speaker 1: injuries earlier in his career and how you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of a part of his bigger story. So
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about Connor's story and and just
Speaker 1: kind of the whole trajectory of Connor Williams to the
Speaker 1: point that he is now well. I think that Connor Williams,
Speaker 1: he's a guy that's gonna fight, He's gonna fight back,
Speaker 1: He's gonna try to do his best to do what
Speaker 1: he needs to do in order to succeed. He was
Speaker 1: a guy that growing up got bullied a ton, and
Speaker 1: we know that usually when that happens, if you are
Speaker 1: someone that's able to overcome that in your life, you
Speaker 1: tend to turn out really good. You know, you tend
Speaker 1: to overcome all those issues. And right above and Connor,
Speaker 1: he's just a guy that honestly, even when we don't
Speaker 1: see him at games or whatever and you may think, oh,
Speaker 1: he was injured, he's still gonna be in the in
Speaker 1: the gym, working out, doing the reps, doing the things
Speaker 1: that he needs to do, you know, in order to
Speaker 1: accomplish what is being asked from him. I think another
Speaker 1: thing that he was able to do was build a
Speaker 1: really good relationship with Travis Frederick during his time that
Speaker 1: he was still here, and he was able to not
Speaker 1: only get the you know, physical aspect of it and
Speaker 1: the strength that he needed, but also the knowledge, which
Speaker 1: is super important when you know a guy like that
Speaker 1: on the line. You need to have that knowledge, the communication,
Speaker 1: learn and know what your role is. And I think
Speaker 1: that he's been studying, he's been working hard, and he's
Speaker 1: gonna be good. He's gonna do a good job. Will
Speaker 1: be running that that documentary on Sunday, September sixth, so
Speaker 1: makes you guys check that out. We'll run across all
Speaker 1: of our channels. It's really really good story, well done
Speaker 1: by Amber um Let. Let's watch another position. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about three technique. Um Obviously that this is has kind
Speaker 1: of gotten wide open now with Gerald McCoy going down
Speaker 1: and then being released. But you got Tyrone Crawford who's
Speaker 1: been a mainstay, and I think primarily he's gonna be
Speaker 1: the guy that you would expect on opening day, will
Speaker 1: be the guy that will be the starter. But let's
Speaker 1: talk about the young guys, Neville Gallimore and and Tristan Hill.
Speaker 1: Talk to me about what you guys have seen from
Speaker 1: those two players particularly and how they've performed relative to
Speaker 1: one another. Let's start with you Dave. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: I said when Gerald went down that they needed one
Speaker 1: of those two guys to step up. And to this point,
Speaker 1: it looks like it's gonna be Tristan hill Um. And
Speaker 1: you know, we do this every year. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know if he's gonna be in Dominican Sue. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying it's he's gonna be an all pro, but
Speaker 1: he's getting reps. He's getting reps against the good players.
Speaker 1: He's consistently having good reps. You see him pushing the
Speaker 1: pocket and just think things. He looks active, um And
Speaker 1: I can't to this point say the same thing about Neville,
Speaker 1: and that's it's it's it's something that happens every year.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's a top one hundred draft pick. You
Speaker 1: have high hopes for him, but that is a position
Speaker 1: where we have often seen growing pains and Gallimore not
Speaker 1: to say he looks terrible. Um. He actually he had
Speaker 1: a he had a fumble that he knocked the ball
Speaker 1: out of Benda Nucci's hand the other day. But you
Speaker 1: just haven't seen that consistent disruption and and for that matter,
Speaker 1: you haven't seen him get as many opportunities to go
Speaker 1: against the studs um So, I you know, for me,
Speaker 1: it's it's Tyrone Crawford and Tristan Hill fighting for the
Speaker 1: most playing time at that position right now. Nick, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that there's a wild card that could that
Speaker 1: could kind of create a domino effect there, and that's
Speaker 1: Justin Hamilton. He's he's six two, three hundred and fifteen pounds.
Speaker 1: He's not as big as Don Tari Poe, but he's
Speaker 1: definitely bigger than anybody else on the team. He could
Speaker 1: be a one technique and what that does is that
Speaker 1: might move Antoine Woods to a spot where they need
Speaker 1: to use him in the three. So it'll be interesting
Speaker 1: to see how all that shakes out. But I know
Speaker 1: Justin Hamilton is starting to create a little bit of
Speaker 1: buzz for what they like there in the middle, and
Speaker 1: then we'll just figure out, you know, how it all goes.
Speaker 1: I don't think they're gonna cut ties with Tristin Hill
Speaker 1: or Neville Gallimore for that matter, So that might be
Speaker 1: a position that they kind of go long, just trying
Speaker 1: to figure out where everyone goes. And maybe Tyrone doesn't
Speaker 1: play as much tackle as we think. If some of
Speaker 1: these guys move up, he can be a backup defensive
Speaker 1: end amber. I think Gallimore has been doing a good job.
Speaker 1: But to me, the one that has been standing out
Speaker 1: is Tristan Hill. Compared to last year and what we
Speaker 1: saw from him, I feel that his movements and I
Speaker 1: wrote this the other day, he's moving with purpose now,
Speaker 1: as opposed to last year where he just looked lost.
Speaker 1: He was will try his hardest, but sometimes it just
Speaker 1: it wasn't It wasn't working how you wanted it to work.
Speaker 1: But this year he's moving with a purpose. He's just pushing.
Speaker 1: He brings the energy to practice, and that's something that's
Speaker 1: super important. One of the things that I noticed from
Speaker 1: a player, For example, Jalen Smith a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: when he started out, he was just all over the field,
Speaker 1: and now you see that transition when a player learns
Speaker 1: where he's supposed to go and just becomes more confident.
Speaker 1: I mean that when it translating into the field, it's
Speaker 1: it's impressive to see the growth there. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: we were all somewhat disappointed in what we saw from
Speaker 1: Justin Hill last season. Has what you've seen this season
Speaker 1: changed your opinions of maybe where he is or or
Speaker 1: his trajectory at this point based upon what you've seen
Speaker 1: so far in training camp. I'll start this time with Nick. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. And you know, he's getting some high
Speaker 1: parase from people that matter, Jerry Jones, for one, who
Speaker 1: is obviously listening to other people talk as well. You know,
Speaker 1: he doesn't probably see every minute of the practices and
Speaker 1: all the behind the scenes stuff with Jim tom Sula,
Speaker 1: his d line coach, was was really raving about him
Speaker 1: the other day and how he's always got his you know,
Speaker 1: he's always got his head in his in this you know,
Speaker 1: playbook ready, you know, looking trying to get better, asking
Speaker 1: questions a lot. So you know, he's doing everything right.
Speaker 1: He's got an opportunity now with McCoy gone, so yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of lining up better for him. And maturity
Speaker 1: was always something that people were referencing when they talked
Speaker 1: about him, and you know it's early, but but it
Speaker 1: does look like he's taken a better step in the
Speaker 1: right direction. Amber. I think so he right now. I mean,
Speaker 1: the fact that he's being talked about is huge. He's
Speaker 1: making himself not be forgotten. So I think that he'll
Speaker 1: stay here and he's on the right path right now, Dave,
Speaker 1: I sort of alluded to it already. I just I'm trying.
Speaker 1: I'm in twenty twenty. I'm trying to just take one
Speaker 1: step at a time approach because at the same position
Speaker 1: last year, you know, Malie Collins was having the best
Speaker 1: camp ever. And I think I spent three years expecting
Speaker 1: Malie Collins to make his first Pro Bowl. I felt
Speaker 1: confident about it every summer, and it came back to
Speaker 1: bite me every fall. So I feel good about where
Speaker 1: he's at. He looks really good right now. But you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not ready to say that he's just gonna take
Speaker 1: the league by storm. I guess, but we'll see. All right,
Speaker 1: let's move on to another position. Actually, let's go and
Speaker 1: take our final break. When we come back, I want
Speaker 1: to talk about the wide receiver position. Obviously we've been
Speaker 1: talking a lot about those top three wide receivers, but
Speaker 1: this Cowboys team will have two, three, maybe four more
Speaker 1: that will make the roster. Let's talk about some of
Speaker 1: those guys. We'll do that when we come right back.
Speaker 1: This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio since eighteen sixty five.
Speaker 1: Stetson hats are American maid with pride, right here in
Speaker 1: Texas and Stetson is proud to be on the field
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Speaker 1: field at every home game. Stetson hats the official crown
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Speaker 1: Get yours today at Shop Dallas Cowboys dot com or
Speaker 1: at Stetson dot com. I'm Jay Novachek, former tight end
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Speaker 1: in a tasty treat that's sweeping airwaves and taste buds.
Speaker 1: It's new Doctor Pepper and Cream Soda. Let's take a listen,
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Speaker 1: do bay. Back to the break Welcome back. It is
Speaker 1: the final segment of the Break Life Virtual SWBC Mortgage Studio.
Speaker 1: We're talking camp battles and right now we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about the wide receiver position. We've talked so much about
Speaker 1: the top three guys, but I want to talk about
Speaker 1: those guys that are that are beyond those guys. It
Speaker 1: looks like the Cowboys. We'll have to make some decisions
Speaker 1: on probably two, three, Nick, you were talking them break
Speaker 1: maybe four. I don't know. We don't know how this
Speaker 1: coach is gonna heard. No, we were talking, we were
Speaker 1: discussing that. Yeah, I was saying four, but again not
Speaker 1: saying that they will. But we just don't know at
Speaker 1: this point. The way I look at it is, this
Speaker 1: is a whole new coaching staff and they're gonna make decisions,
Speaker 1: probably very different than what we've seen in the past
Speaker 1: because they are different coaching staff. But all that being said,
Speaker 1: let's talk about some of these guys that are lowered
Speaker 1: down the depth chart and maybe how they how you
Speaker 1: prioritize them. Guys like Cedric Wilson, Devin Smith, Noah Brown,
Speaker 1: Vintel Bryant, John Vay Johnson, and then Tevin Jones and
Speaker 1: Aaron Parker give me in priority order. Talk to me
Speaker 1: about maybe the top two or three guys in that
Speaker 1: list that you think have the best shot of making
Speaker 1: this team in the four, five, and six position. If
Speaker 1: that's what the Cowboys decide to do. Let's start with you. Dave.
Speaker 1: It's stressful, man, because I mean it's easy for receivers
Speaker 1: to have good camps. I get that, but like they're
Speaker 1: all having pretty good camps for the most part, and
Speaker 1: the way I prioritize it, there's so many different types.
Speaker 1: I mean, Cedric Wilson is Dak's favorite non starting receiver
Speaker 1: in my opinion, just based on the work that they
Speaker 1: do and the way they talk about each other. So
Speaker 1: you got your quarterbacks favorite, does a little bit of everything,
Speaker 1: can return punts. Devin Smith is probably your best speed
Speaker 1: deep threat guy and has shown that at this camp
Speaker 1: once again, probably the least special team's value, but again
Speaker 1: maybe the biggest receiver value. Then you got Noah Brown
Speaker 1: and Ventel Bryant might as well be the same guy
Speaker 1: in my opinion. Bigger bodies, they can do downfield stuff,
Speaker 1: They're useful in the blocking game. They both have already
Speaker 1: proven on previous rosters that they have special team's value.
Speaker 1: And then I feel like I'm forgetting somebody John bad Johnson,
Speaker 1: Yeah you got yeah, thank you, agi John Vay and
Speaker 1: I would put John Vay last in that group. M
Speaker 1: Parker h yeah, Aaron Parker, he probably deserves a mention.
Speaker 1: And he just he looks different out there. He's a
Speaker 1: big bodied guy too, M. So he's intriguing that's probably
Speaker 1: the order I would put it. But for me, it's
Speaker 1: basically Cedric and Noah and Brian all have special team's value.
Speaker 1: Devin Smith doesn't. And that's sort of where it gets
Speaker 1: complicated for me, is figuring out what's more valuable amber
Speaker 1: It's it's really tough because this guys have been so
Speaker 1: like right there with each other. But the one that
Speaker 1: I would say that has stood out the most to
Speaker 1: me in recent practices has been Cedric Wilson. He's a
Speaker 1: guy that it's just one step further than the rest
Speaker 1: of the He's taking the lead right now for me.
Speaker 1: But as far as the rest of the guys, I mean,
Speaker 1: just like Dave said, these guys are just so close
Speaker 1: to each other, and it's just comes I think it
Speaker 1: will come down to the coaching staff and what they
Speaker 1: prefer in those wide receivers. What kind of trades and
Speaker 1: quality are they looking for in guys that have to
Speaker 1: take down like the fourth, fifth, sixth position And I
Speaker 1: forgot what you call it, but wide receiver group, nick Um,
Speaker 1: you guys have kind of touched on them all. I
Speaker 1: mean I don't see I don't see them really taken
Speaker 1: more than five. They may take six, but I would
Speaker 1: just take five and it would just be Cedric Wilson
Speaker 1: and vinceel Briant. That would be my five. This is
Speaker 1: a This is a you know, top three receivers are
Speaker 1: probably the best trio in the NFL, so I don't
Speaker 1: need my guys to be great receivers. Cedric Wilson I
Speaker 1: think can be special teams punt returner, a backup punt returner,
Speaker 1: and then also like a fourth receiver. He looks pretty
Speaker 1: smooth and his routh ben Tell Brian I thinks your
Speaker 1: best special teams guy. There's nobody else that I would
Speaker 1: say you've got to have him on the roster. You know,
Speaker 1: oh my god, if we lost Noah Brown, you know what,
Speaker 1: it would be no different than the last two years
Speaker 1: when he really didn't play, John Vay Johnson, those guys.
Speaker 1: I mean, the one player y'all didn't mention that I
Speaker 1: think it keeps standing out is Tevin Jones. He looks
Speaker 1: pretty good to me. He's got a really big body
Speaker 1: and he's got some speed that you're not expecting for
Speaker 1: his size. So you know, he looks pretty good. But
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to go along in other positions. This
Speaker 1: to me, wouldn't be one of them. I would go
Speaker 1: with five and call it today. I think I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I just I want to throw this out there. I
Speaker 1: know it was it was Randall Cobb last year and
Speaker 1: not Ceedee Lamb. But all three of the big three
Speaker 1: spent time hurt last year, all three of them, and
Speaker 1: for a couple of games it was two, and it
Speaker 1: would sure be nice to have a guy like Devin Smith.
Speaker 1: And laughably, they were in that exact situation last year
Speaker 1: and the coaching staff didn't activate him for the Jets game.
Speaker 1: So Devin Smith stood on the sideline while nobody was healthy.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean this coaching staff has to do that.
Speaker 1: So I tend to agree. I think you can get
Speaker 1: away with going short at running back and tight end
Speaker 1: and a few other spots. Give me six receivers. I'll
Speaker 1: keep Cedric Devon and one of the big bodied guys.
Speaker 1: I don't care who. Yeah. I think the one thing
Speaker 1: we'll have to be aware of it and that we'll
Speaker 1: see how it all plays out once they make the
Speaker 1: cuts is McCarty has said multiple times in his press
Speaker 1: conferences since training campus began that and this is a
Speaker 1: mantra he has about the whole team. Guys need to
Speaker 1: be able to do multiple things and doesn't want guys
Speaker 1: that are just like one thing, right, And so I
Speaker 1: think that especially when we start talking about depth players,
Speaker 1: particularly at the wide receiver position, I think it's going
Speaker 1: to revolve a lot around what they can provide for
Speaker 1: the special teams. And the problem with that for us
Speaker 1: as people that are analyzing the team is that we
Speaker 1: aren't really seeing a lot with regards to special teams.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously there's no live action for us to
Speaker 1: be able to get a real feel for how we
Speaker 1: think guys play on special teams. The coaches are certainly
Speaker 1: being able to see based upon the drills how many
Speaker 1: what guys are actually doing the things that they need
Speaker 1: them to be able to do from a from a
Speaker 1: drilling type standpoint, so they'll be making that decision. But
Speaker 1: ultimately I want to see how much this factors in,
Speaker 1: and especially when we start talking about numbers. You know,
Speaker 1: when you start talking about a sixth or possibly a
Speaker 1: seventh wide receiver, it's gonna be all about the fact,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, what does that guy bring from to
Speaker 1: you for from a special team standpoint, relative to that
Speaker 1: extra linebacker or you know, that extra defensive back, whatever
Speaker 1: position it might be. I think once you get to
Speaker 1: that part of the of the of the depth chart
Speaker 1: and that part of the roster, I think it's going
Speaker 1: to be all about what those guys are providing for
Speaker 1: special teams. I think there's gonna be an added emphasis
Speaker 1: on special teams this year that maybe we haven't seen
Speaker 1: during the Jason Garrett era. Let's go ahead and flip
Speaker 1: over to the tight end position real quick before we
Speaker 1: end the show. So far, we've seen all the tight
Speaker 1: ends get involved Blake Bill Dalton Schultz, and they've been
Speaker 1: kind of the two guys that you think are are
Speaker 1: kind of battling there behind Blake Jarwin. Talk to me
Speaker 1: about what you've seen from those two guys particularly and
Speaker 1: where you think they kind of rate right rank right now,
Speaker 1: let's start with you, and Well, the only guy that
Speaker 1: I'm all up for is Blake Jarwin. I think he's
Speaker 1: been doing a really really good job in every aspect
Speaker 1: of the game. He can blog, he can catch the ball,
Speaker 1: he can get separated, find an open space, and even
Speaker 1: when he's not necessarily the target, I think he has
Speaker 1: a really good connection with Dak Prescott, but after him, honestly,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know who else. No one
Speaker 1: else catches my attention. I think that Dalton Schultz has
Speaker 1: been doing a better job than he was last year.
Speaker 1: I've seen some improvement there, but that doesn't excite me
Speaker 1: very much. So after Blake Jarwin, honestly, I don't feel
Speaker 1: great about the position. Nicky, Yeah, I mean, it's hard
Speaker 1: to say right now. I have seen Schultz make a
Speaker 1: couple more catches in the last few days. I think
Speaker 1: Blake Bell's gonna probably be you're You're, He's gonna be
Speaker 1: on the field a lot more than people think, just
Speaker 1: because I think he will be your best blocker. Jarwin's
Speaker 1: been okay, you know at times, But I think that
Speaker 1: that position is just going to be a product of
Speaker 1: how teams are playing the defense and they have to
Speaker 1: worry about the other spots, and I think that the
Speaker 1: tight end will probably be pretty good. It'll be okay
Speaker 1: just because you know, they're gonna get good mismatches and
Speaker 1: they're gonna probably take advantage of it at times. But
Speaker 1: I don't see him really standing out a lot. But
Speaker 1: I don't see him hurting them that much. Either Dave,
Speaker 1: I think we gotta make a we gotta make a bet,
Speaker 1: like we gotta do a me Casina Dinner bet or something,
Speaker 1: because y'all are hating on these tight ends and I'm
Speaker 1: I'm over here feeling I'm giddy with anticipation about these
Speaker 1: tight ends because I think Blake Jarwin's gonna be a stud.
Speaker 1: And yeah, a lot of that is going to be
Speaker 1: a product of his environment. There's Pro bowlers at every
Speaker 1: other skill position, but he is an athletic dude, and
Speaker 1: he can get downfield in a hurry, and Dak Prescott
Speaker 1: loves to look for him, Like Dak has been throwing
Speaker 1: down the seams more than I can ever remember. Now
Speaker 1: that he's got more athletic options at tight end, I
Speaker 1: think Jarwin's gonna have an awesome year. And I'll say
Speaker 1: of the entire roster, I'm not saying he's gonna make
Speaker 1: the Pro Bowl. I'm not saying he's gonna be great.
Speaker 1: But where my expectations were for Dalton Schultz three weeks
Speaker 1: ago as opposed to what I've seen, probably the biggest
Speaker 1: jump on the entire team. He's getting a lot of
Speaker 1: reps with with good players. They're using him downfield. He
Speaker 1: had an awesome contested catch over Jalen Smith the other day.
Speaker 1: He's he's been very impressive and way more active in
Speaker 1: the passing game than I can ever remember, to the
Speaker 1: point where, you know, I said in the offseason, like
Speaker 1: Dalton Schultz might not you know, be on this team,
Speaker 1: and now I'd certainly think he's gonna make the team. Um,
Speaker 1: I've been I've been impressed by what they've been able
Speaker 1: to do with him. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. I think
Speaker 1: those guys will be fine catching the ball. I think
Speaker 1: that they're gonna get open. I just wonder when it's
Speaker 1: third and two, when they put two tight ends or
Speaker 1: three tight ends, can any of them block? Can any
Speaker 1: of them hold their block? Are they all gonna be mismatches?
Speaker 1: And that's that's the problem that I have, is that
Speaker 1: Jarwin blocked, Jarwin can get in the way, which is
Speaker 1: all I need from him. Yeah, right, I mean, and
Speaker 1: you know, I think the last seven eight years of
Speaker 1: Jason Witten's career he was getting in the way. You know,
Speaker 1: he probably was getting in the way his whole career.
Speaker 1: He just knew how to how to do it. So
Speaker 1: I mean, he's not pancaking anybody. Uh, That's my only
Speaker 1: concern is, Yeah, I think they can catch the ball
Speaker 1: down the field. I just wonder about thirteen personnel. I
Speaker 1: don't like that at all because I don't think they've
Speaker 1: got good matchups there. I hope, Yeah, My hope is
Speaker 1: that thirteen personnel went to New York with Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think I hope thirteen personnel went to New York um.
Speaker 1: And I hope I hope that that's not what we
Speaker 1: see a lot here. I mean, I know that they
Speaker 1: obviously have something. I'm just we don't know how they're
Speaker 1: gonna use in games. I just hopeful that that will
Speaker 1: not be something we see on a regular basis. And
Speaker 1: I will say this, I actually feel the first time
Speaker 1: in this show agree with Dave. Like and I'm talking
Speaker 1: about this episode. I've been really excited about what I've
Speaker 1: seen from the tight Ends. Now that doesn't mean I
Speaker 1: don't ever agree with you, Dave, just in this episode.
Speaker 1: First time I've agree with you in this episode. And
Speaker 1: I really I've been very excited about what I saw
Speaker 1: from the tight Ends, particularly Dalton Schultz. And that is
Speaker 1: all about Nick. You and I talked about solid time.
Speaker 1: It's all about your expectations team, right, My expectations going
Speaker 1: into this exactly my expectations coming into this camp where
Speaker 1: that Dalton Show was that Dalton Schultz was not going
Speaker 1: to make this team. That was my expectation. He has
Speaker 1: done more than enough at this point for me to
Speaker 1: think that the Cowboys certainly will give him a look
Speaker 1: and he has a shot at making this team. Now
Speaker 1: you don't again, we don't know how they're gonna cut this.
Speaker 1: We don't know if they're gonna keep two or three
Speaker 1: tight ends. My assumptions is gonna be three, and if
Speaker 1: it's gonna be three, I think he makes his team.
Speaker 1: But I think he has been much better than I
Speaker 1: expected him to be. I love what I'm seeing from
Speaker 1: Jarlin right now, particularly down the field, and quite frankly,
Speaker 1: as far as the blocking is concerned, I don't expect
Speaker 1: we're gonna see a lot of that and what those
Speaker 1: guys can do until we get into the season, because
Speaker 1: training camp is just not the environment where you typically
Speaker 1: see a lot of a lot of great blocking that
Speaker 1: you can evaluate. From the Titans. You can see a
Speaker 1: little bit, not as much as you'll obviously see during
Speaker 1: the season. I think that was the whole reason that
Speaker 1: blake Bill was brought here. So that's why I don't
Speaker 1: think blake Bill may be showing up as much for
Speaker 1: us right now when we're looking at passes down the field.
Speaker 1: But I do think I agree with you Nick from
Speaker 1: that standpoint. I think he's going to get opportunities to block,
Speaker 1: and I think he's gonna be a very good addition
Speaker 1: to this team from that standpoint. What we said about Sorry,
Speaker 1: it goes back to what we said about Vintel Brian.
Speaker 1: He might not he might be the eleventh best receiver
Speaker 1: catching the ball, but he'll make the team if he
Speaker 1: can be the best receiver that can play special teams.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing about Schultz. Schultz wasn't that great
Speaker 1: on special teams last year. He had his issues there.
Speaker 1: It comes down to strength, it comes down to blocking.
Speaker 1: So catching a pass over Jalen Smith, that's great, but
Speaker 1: that's probably not what they're going to ask him to do.
Speaker 1: So his value of taking him to the game is
Speaker 1: the blocking, it's the special teams, being the third tight end.
Speaker 1: Those are things that are hard to see right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's doing some good things on offense, better than we've seen,
Speaker 1: But I still think his core job functions are going
Speaker 1: to be blocking on special teams and also blocking, you know,
Speaker 1: at the line of scrimmage. I just wanted to throw
Speaker 1: out I don't I don't think it would be fair
Speaker 1: to do a whole ten minutes on the tight ends
Speaker 1: and not at least mentioned Cole Hiccottini as well. Um,
Speaker 1: I think he's looked good. He's gotten a lot of opportunities.
Speaker 1: He's I mean, he's another more athletic tight end. He's
Speaker 1: still not your big traditional blocking guy, but I do
Speaker 1: I mean, his athleticism is really impressive. So I don't
Speaker 1: know if he makes the team, but I think he's
Speaker 1: having a good camp. I thought he would. He would
Speaker 1: challenge Dalton Schultz for a roster spot, and Dalton Schultz
Speaker 1: has answered the bell and from what we've seen, so
Speaker 1: but I thought Hiccotini would be a guy. And he's done.
Speaker 1: Like you said, he's done a good job. All right,
Speaker 1: we appreciate you guys joining us. That's a rap. We'll
Speaker 1: be back next week. Next Wednesday eleven am is our
Speaker 1: normal time tilted for Nick Eatman, Dave helm At amber Garcia.
Speaker 1: I'm Derek Eagelson. This has been the Break live on
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production
Speaker 1: of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.