1 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope 8 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it 9 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so 11 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: much for joining me for session to seventy eight of 12 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: the Therapy a Black Girl's Podcast. We'll get right into 13 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: our conversation after a word from our sponsors. Historically, Black 14 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: women are disproportionately impacted by domestic violence. However, the pandemic 15 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: has exacerbated violence and abuse towards Black women. Due to 16 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: the health and financial challenges of COVID nineteen, many Black 17 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: women have been isolated in their homes and unable to 18 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: find safety from abusive partners. As we commemorate National Domestic 19 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: Violence Awareness Month this month, I wanted to make sure 20 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: you didn't miss the critical conversation I had with Dr 21 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: Shanita Brown in twenty nine. Dr Brown is a licensed 22 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: professional counselor, speaker, educator, and trainer in North Carolina that 23 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: foster's transformative and empowering dialogue about intimate partner violence and 24 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: mental health wellness. She and I chatted about how you 25 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: can recognize is the signs of domestic violence, why it's 26 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,919 Speaker 1: important to understand domestic violence in the context of power 27 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: and control as opposed to anger management, and how you 28 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: can support a loved one who may be in a 29 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: relationship with an abusive partner. Plus, she shared tons of 30 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: incredible resources for anyone seeking additional help. If something resonates 31 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us 32 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: on social media using the hashtag tv G in Session 33 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: or join us over in the System circle. To talk 34 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: more in depth about the episode, you can join us 35 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: at community dot therapy for Black Girls dot Com. Here's 36 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, 37 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: Dr Brown, Thank you so much for having met joy. 38 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: Is definitely an honor and privilege to be here with you. Yeah, 39 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: I'm really happy you were able to join us because 40 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: I think we really need to, you know, continue having 41 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: this conversation around domestic violence. And I think what happens 42 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: a lot of times is that people are been always 43 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: aware in their own relationships that there may be a 44 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: presence of domestic violence. So can you tell us how 45 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: somebody might even be able to recognize this? Yes, that's 46 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: a great question. So what really defines this abusive relationships 47 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: and tactics? It's really it's a common thread of power 48 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: and control. So it's this intentional pattern of behavior used 49 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: by an abuser when one partner tries to maintain power 50 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: and control or another partner, right, and so that looks 51 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,679 Speaker 1: like someone who may be extremely jealous, right, who a 52 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: partner may be trying to check the cell phone, the 53 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: social media or email, or insisting that a partner texts 54 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: when they arrive or when they leave for work every day, 55 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: or when you may hear So when saying I feel 56 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: like I'm walking on eggshells around their partner, isolation from 57 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: your family and your friends, always feeling like they're afraid, 58 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: we'll appearing to be afraid. When they feel like they 59 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: can't go to work, they can't go to school, they 60 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: can't go so social events because they're afraid that it 61 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: may upset their partner. These are really controlling tactics, and 62 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: these are rare flags of domestic violence. And I think 63 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: it's really important that you gave us such a variety 64 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: of ways to recognize this right because I think sometimes 65 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: people just think it's physical right, so the person is 66 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: hitting them, when really, obviously abuse can be all of 67 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: these things that you've named, plus more. I'm sure right. 68 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: So this domestic violence, and sometimes you may hear intimate 69 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: partner violence, and so really, and it can happen to 70 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: anyone joy, it can happen to all cultures on backgrounds. 71 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: People are married, people are unmarried, he homosexual, people in 72 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: the LGBT community, wealthy, the poor, religious, not religious, all ethnicities. 73 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: But the key takeaway here, like you're saying, it's this 74 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: power and control, and it's physical violence, emotional violence, and 75 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: and that emotional excuse me, emotional abuse is one where 76 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: they're solid wounds, right, you can't see the emotional scars, 77 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: and that caused us is just as much damage as 78 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: physical abuse, or sometimes more because that is lingering um 79 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: that legal effects of the emotional abuse. M So, can 80 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: you go into a little more depth about the emotional 81 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: abuse of what that might look like. The emotional abuse 82 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: is that when people may say that I feel torn 83 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: name calling, they begin to think that what they are hearing, 84 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: they begin to think that that's part of who they are. 85 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: It leads to mental health challenges. It leads to anxiety, 86 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: this irrational thought patent at least the depression. It leads 87 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,239 Speaker 1: to maladaptive for unhealthy cope and strategies such as trying 88 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: to substant abuse, things of that nature. So that emotion 89 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: abuse and emotional rules is really damaging, and I find 90 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: that it's much more damaging than physical abuse. M M. 91 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: And I'm guessing it would also be probably a little 92 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: harder to recognize. It is are hard to recognize because 93 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: when you have a conversation, you can't see that rule. 94 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: So if you're with someone, you may be sitting to 95 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: someone or maybe working or have a family member who 96 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: is enduring domestic violence, you can't see that physical scar. 97 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: But it's that name calling that's to belittle it, you know, 98 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: putting somebody down that they are enduring every day and 99 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: it could be for years that you really endure emotional abuse, 100 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: and it isn't what people say. The physical abuse but 101 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,679 Speaker 1: that emotional abuse that they are dealing with every day 102 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: that is damaging just one psyche. So Dr Brown, you 103 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: also mentioned because I think something that also happens is 104 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: that people aren't quite sure whether a behavior is their 105 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: partner like really caring about them and their concern or 106 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: is it abuse. So you mentioned like having to text 107 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: when you leave or when you get back from work 108 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: in the evening, and so I could see some people 109 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: saying like, oh, that is just my partner caring about me. 110 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: So how would you know whether something like that isn't 111 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: a sign of abuse or whether it's just your partner 112 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: being concerned. This is a great question because you want 113 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: to think of what's healthy and what is unhealthy. Right, 114 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: So again, were to examine what is that threat, that 115 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: pattern of abusive and power and control behavior, that intention 116 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: of pattern. You have to tell me who you're talking to, 117 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: or if I didn't text you, why you didn't text me? 118 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: Or hey, it's it's one thing to say text me 119 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: when you get to work because I care about your 120 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: well being, right, But there's a difference of saying somebody 121 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: that's very controlling you need to text me every day 122 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: or this is gonna happen, or you need to text 123 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: me the day because I'm very concerned, or this may 124 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: not happen. So there's that power. Is that abusive, intentional 125 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: pattern of behavior that's the difference between text and every 126 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: day or just check it. So you're really looking at, 127 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: like you said, the pattern. And if this is the 128 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: only thing that's happening, then it could just be like 129 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: a cause for concern. But if this is something that's 130 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: present with the name calling and maybe some physical abuse, 131 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: then you can more clearly see the picture absolutely putting 132 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: someone down because they hit in text or you know, 133 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: making someone feel bad about themselves. You know, well you're 134 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: crazy because you didn't do this, or you didn't text me, 135 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: or things are that you know. So it's this pattern, right, 136 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: You're gonna find that pattern. And a lot of times 137 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: people can't see the pattern, and you have to put 138 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: it out. You have to ask the question, what are 139 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: you seeing? All right? And then when you ask the question, 140 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: what are your experiencing? What's happening in your relationship? And 141 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: then people begin to say, wow, I never thought that 142 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: this was a form of domestic violence. So Dr Brown 143 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: hasn't been your experience that people will maybe come into 144 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: counseling with you to maybe figure out like how they 145 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: can work on the relationship with their partner, and then 146 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: you're able to kind of show them this pattern. Yes, 147 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: so I find quite often when I am working with 148 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: clients and my initial intake and doing a very thorough assessment, 149 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: you know what's happening in your relationship, you begin to 150 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: ask the questions what are you experiencing? Do you feel safe? 151 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: Sometimes they don't feel safe, and then we asked what 152 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: are your experience and then you got What I find 153 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: very helpful is showing people the power and control will, 154 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: which was developed by the Deloof model, which helps with 155 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: people looking out that at the core of the will 156 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: is probably in control right, and so you have coercion, 157 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: you have threats, you have intimidation, you have economic abuse, 158 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 1: and when people begin to look at the power of control, 159 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: it resonates with them. Let me say, wow, I am 160 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: experiencing them, and ask the question, what are your experiencing 161 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: that you see on that will? Oh, yeah, they do 162 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: put me down, or they do control what I do, 163 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: or they control what I wear, or they limit my 164 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: outside involvement, or they're very jealous. So I do feel 165 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 1: like I'm walking up eggshells and then it clicks, that 166 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: light bulb goes off for them and say, wow, I 167 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: never know this was domestic violence. All this time, I 168 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: just thought they loved me or they were trying to 169 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: show me that they were concerned, and I never thought 170 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: that this was domestic violence. It is very hard, so 171 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: you have to have tools to help people see that 172 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: what you're describing isn't healthy. Mm hmmm yeah. And I 173 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: would imagine that it would be even more difficult for 174 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: someone who maybe has come from a home where they've 175 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 1: seen this with their parents or you know, with their 176 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: loved ones growing up, and they don't necessarily know that 177 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: all relationships don't function in this way. Absolutely, the first relationship, 178 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: the first image of relationship starts at home, so that 179 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: sets up the relation of template for people, and so 180 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: they begin to think this is normal. This is all 181 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: I've ever known, this is what I've seen, as you mentioned, 182 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: not the joy. But when they come in say I 183 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: want some help, I want to feel safe. I'm not 184 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: really sure, I don't really want to in a relationship, 185 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,599 Speaker 1: but maybe let's talk about this anger management. And you 186 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: begin to educate them and they really understand that this 187 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,719 Speaker 1: is not an anger management issue, that this is an 188 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: overall pattern of abusive and volid behavior. Then they begin 189 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: to really rethink what they're in and sometimes they're not 190 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: ready to leave immediately, and that's okay, Yeah, can you 191 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about the distinction between this 192 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: not being an anger management issue and the domestic violence, 193 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: So you know, I want people to really understand that 194 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: that abuse is not an anger management issue. Right, So 195 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: people who are experiencing the angle management issue, they're gonna 196 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: go off from their boss, they're gonna go off on 197 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: that cut and their friend of cowork, random person. But 198 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 1: abuse is carefully targeted at one person, right. So again, 199 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: it's that overall pattern of abusive and invalid behavior and 200 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: that is not an anger management issue. That's the difference. 201 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,599 Speaker 1: They're controlling behaviors that are really the biggest red flags 202 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: that you look out for in relationships. That is such 203 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: an important distinction, Dr Brown, because it also makes me 204 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 1: think about how often you will hear people who have 205 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,119 Speaker 1: stories of being abused by their partners, but then everybody 206 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: else in their life is like, what are you talking about? 207 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: How they're so nice, they're so charming, they're so x 208 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: y Z right, But it really goes to this crafting 209 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: of a character where nobody else can kind of see 210 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: what's going on inside the home. Absolutely and again. So 211 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: it's that's why domest of violence is not an anger 212 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: management issue, right. It's this control, this pattern of behavior, 213 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: and you begin to talk to someone you'd be able 214 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: to recognize in here, they can tell you, well, it 215 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: happened during this time, it happened again, it happened this time, 216 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: it happened this time. Where they always put me down, 217 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: or they make me feel guilty, or sometimes they make 218 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 1: me feel good about my children, or you know, they 219 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: say that the abuse didn't happen, or they say that 220 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: sometimes I call something to to make the abuse happen, 221 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: and that's never the case. But it's that pattern of behavior, 222 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: very that pattern of control invavior. Mm hmmm. More from 223 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: my conversation with Dr Brown after the break. So a 224 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: lot of what you're talking about is gaslighting, right, So 225 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: something that has kind of gotten more talk in I 226 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: think recent months. Um, it's coming up in more conversations. 227 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit more about what gas 228 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 1: lighting is and what that looks like in the relationship. Yes, 229 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: for gas lighting, is when you know, in a partner 230 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: would make the other partner the thing that they're crazy, 231 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: that it really didn't happen, that there's something that they're 232 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: the cause of it, and maybe minimizing what's happening, and 233 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: that is really the form that power of control, right, 234 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: that pattern begin to think that maybe maybe this didn't 235 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: really happen. No, I didn't really hear that, and they 236 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: begin to think, well, at the while that you know 237 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: this really isn't abuse, or I am crazy, Well there's 238 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: something wrong with me, or I'm making it up and 239 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: really there's nothing really wrong with them. But that's the 240 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: manipulate behavior, right of gas light, And what happens in 241 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: that situation when one partner begins to think that, hey, 242 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: I am somehow contributed to this, or I am crazy, 243 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: or you know, something is really wrong here, or nothing's 244 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: really wrong with me. Yeah, and I want to hear 245 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: if you can't duck around a little bit more about 246 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: like the pattern or the course that this takes, because 247 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: it usually does not start off so obvious, right, So 248 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: an abuser would necessarily start off by saying you can't 249 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: go to your mom's on the weekends or whatever. It 250 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: usually starts much smaller and then progressive. Can you talk 251 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: a little bit about what that progression looks like. Yes. So, 252 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: during the research of domestic violence, and you have heard 253 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: the term of you may hear the cycle of abuse 254 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: or a cycle of violence, and recent research has changed 255 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: that there really isn't a cycle of violence. There really 256 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: isn't in one right, because no one gets into a 257 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: relationship to really say that they're in this cycle. That's 258 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: somehow contributing to it. But what happened You may see 259 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: that an abusing may be nice at one point when 260 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: you may say, like the honeymoon phase, and then it 261 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: begins to escalate, and then you may see a little 262 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: bit more just call it this guy's gas light in 263 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: or this form of psychological manipulation, and then maybe having 264 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: it having some sort of planting this doubt and the 265 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: victim will survivor's mind of what they are experiencing maybe 266 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: then begin to question their perception of the relationship. Then 267 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: it begins to add a little bit more fuel to it, 268 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: and then it becomes very explosive, and then it repeats itself. 269 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: So on one hand, it is a cycle. On one 270 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: hand it isn't because it's mainly this pattern of abusive behavior, 271 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: if that makes sense, dot joy, So what is the 272 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: cycle piece? That is not quite accurate the actual term 273 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: of the cycle of violence? Okay, got you? So, so 274 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: the pattern is pretty consistent, but calling it a cycle 275 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: isn't the most consistent anymore. Got you? Okay? Okay? And 276 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: so are there any warning signs or things that you 277 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: should be looking out for kind of in the beginning 278 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: phases of a relationship that may kind of tip you 279 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: off that this person may be abusive. A partner who 280 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: is extremely jealous, the isolation putting you down, I would say, 281 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: making a partner feel bad about themselves. Some of the 282 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: name call it intimidation, destroying property somehow saying that, well, 283 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have done this if you would have just 284 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: listened to me. Mm hmmm um. Difficulty taking accountability for 285 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: any of their acts. Absolutely, It's so important for people 286 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: to understand that abuse is never your fault, right, It 287 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: is never anything that you have done. You know, it 288 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: is important for the perpetrator or the abuser. Sometimes the 289 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: terms are used interchangeably. They're held accountable for the actions, 290 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: and a lot of times that doesn't happen. And then 291 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: we end up what we call a lot of victim blaming. 292 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: What did you do? What were you wear it? Or 293 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: and it's never the case and we have to really 294 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: change that too, placing the accountability on where it belongs. 295 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: And that's still abusing. And I want to hear your thoughts, 296 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: like a Brown about why you think we jump to 297 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: the victim blaming so often, Like why is it so 298 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: hard for us to believe that people could be being abused? 299 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: I think me personally, I think because overall in society, 300 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: we have this culture mindset where men are in control 301 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 1: and they're the dominant gender and women don't have a voice, 302 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: and so I think women aren't believe and so we're 303 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: always finding ways to look at what are women doing 304 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: or what have partners doing in the relationship, and not 305 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: look at a way to trying to change that story. 306 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: So it's important to look at what we're saying first. 307 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: What is our response, like really start when you hear 308 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: about the situation, how do I respond in a way 309 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: that is not victim blaming? You know that you know 310 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: if itsal can never do anything to call someone to 311 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: hit someone. It's important to look at how do we 312 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 1: hold each other accountable? And how we hold that perpetrated 313 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: accountable before their behavior. And I think it is deeply 314 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: rooted in our society. I really think it is. So 315 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: you already alluded to this a little bit dr ground, 316 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: But another complicated part of this is, you know, someone 317 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: does realize that they are in interbusive relationship and then 318 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: maybe it's trying to figure out whether they're going to 319 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: stay in this relationship or not. And a lot of 320 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 1: times on the outside looking in, right again, people are 321 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 1: quick to say or why don't they just leave? Why 322 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: don't they just get out? But of course this is 323 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 1: a very complicated, complex kind of a decision. So can 324 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 1: you talk with us a little bit about what that 325 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: decision making process might look like? Dor Joy, This is 326 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: a very good question, Thank you so much, because we're 327 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: so quick to judge people. I wouldn't have done that. 328 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: I can't believe there is still in that I would 329 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: have been gone right. But with domestic violence is so complex. 330 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 1: There's so many reasons why a victims stay, and maybe 331 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: children involved for economic reasons. They're actually afraid, I mean, 332 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: there's a lot of fear here, and and then if 333 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: they think about leaving, that risk of their lives become 334 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: more at risk for death, so we're thinking about financial 335 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: support or children. Part of reasons being the breadwinner, having 336 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: nowhere to go. Actually love is the reason why some 337 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: people may say they think this is actually loved. So 338 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: it is not something so quick where we can pull 339 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: them out. Hey girl, hey gud, let's come on and 340 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: get out this relationship. It is very risky, it is 341 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: very deadly when we're talking about leaving an abusive relationship. 342 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: So that has to be thought out, It has to 343 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: be planned, and it has to be take all things 344 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: have to be considered when we're talking about leaving an 345 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: abusive relationship. It is not easy. Is the research still 346 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: consistent in talking about how dangerous it is? Like that 347 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: is the most dangerous time when the most dangerous partner 348 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: decides to leave and it takes seven attempts. Say that 349 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: takes seven attempts to try and leave before they have 350 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:52,239 Speaker 1: successfully left that relationship seven attempts. Want people to know 351 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: it is not an easy situation, and so I applaud 352 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: people when they are trying to leave the situation or 353 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: trying to take the steps. And you have to connect 354 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: with people and connect with community resources who are training 355 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: to do this work and Safety Planet mm hmmm, So 356 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: can you talk about that a little bit like, Okay, 357 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: let's say I have made this decision to try to 358 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: get out of this relationship. What kinds of things or 359 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: resources do I need to connect with to try to 360 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: figure out what my plan is going to be? Yeah, 361 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: so it's one talking to and domestic violence agency or 362 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: people who are trained in safety planning. I'm talking to 363 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: a trusted family member who will provide support and not 364 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: additional victim blaming. Are talking to faith based communities that 365 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: will offer support versus trying to tell you the state 366 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: in that relationship. Right, So you want to connect with 367 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: people who will understand what you are going through and 368 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: can help you safety plan right if you have children, 369 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: collecting documents such as your birth certificates, so security cars, 370 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: have a money in a separate account. All these takes time. 371 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: Have and a night bad pack for your children, and 372 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: pact for yourself and having a plan in place when 373 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: you're getting ready to leave that situation. Yeah, definitely connected 374 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: with domest of Villnce agency. Yeah, to help with safety Planet. 375 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: And most counties have this, correct, Like we'll have some 376 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 1: kind of agency that is designed to help with this 377 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: type of effort. Absolutely, every state has a coalition for 378 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: themest of violence and sexual arts and then connecting you 379 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: with that agency. Yeah, for safety Planet, that would be 380 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: the first place I was in and working with the survivor, 381 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: connecting them out doing the work as well, but also 382 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: connecting them with work in collaborative. Collaborative is a collaborative 383 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: effort and Safety Planet, and it may take several sessions, 384 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: It may not get done in that one in their 385 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: succession is going to take several until that person to 386 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: say I'm ready mm hmm, right, having them, empowering them 387 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: to make the decision. And how can friends and family 388 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: be supportive at this point? Right? This is another great 389 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: question too because oftentimes I hear people say my family 390 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: don't get me, or my pastor told me to stay. 391 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: And so one we have to always be aware of 392 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,959 Speaker 1: the complexity of domestic violence that it is not easy 393 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: for a person to leave. We want to always be 394 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: concerned about their will being about the safety. So I 395 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: would tell people if you're concerned and say, hey, I'm 396 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: concerned about your will being instead of trying to say 397 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: you need to leave, right. And so if you're telling 398 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: them you need to leave. You're doing the same thing 399 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 1: that an abuser is doing. You're telling them your control 400 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: of them. But walk with them. I am here to 401 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: support you. I may not know what this is like, 402 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: but your your well being is a concern for me. 403 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: I love you, I care about you. Here is the hotline. 404 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: I am here to walk with you when you are ready. 405 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: Those are that's very supportive to help in someone in 406 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: that situation, getting them flyers or brochures, connect them to 407 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: the eight hundred hotline or to a shelter, to an agency. 408 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 1: But never go in or lead in with to tell 409 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: somebody what to do in that situation, because you become 410 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: part of what they're already dealing with is a controlling situation. Yeah, 411 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: and I have you know, heard people talk about like 412 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: it is just really important for you to be there 413 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: and to let them know, you know, if you ever 414 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: decide to leave, I got you right like so so 415 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: that that even maybe family and friends can become a 416 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: part of the safety planning if there is a goal 417 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: time right and just be there to listen, Just to 418 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: be there to listen and be available. I'm here, non 419 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: judgment or environment, create a safe space. More from my 420 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: conversation with Dr Brown after the break. So, Dr Brown, 421 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: can you talk about what therapy might look like for 422 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: somebody maybe who is either deciding whether they're going to 423 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: leave the relationship, or maybe somebody who has left the relationship, 424 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: Like what kinds of things might you be working with 425 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 1: them on in therapy. It just depends on how they 426 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: show up in in that session, and it shows up 427 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: what what what stage they are in. They could be 428 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: that I'm thinking about leaving or I didn't know I'm 429 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: dealing with this and now I've learned the term. So 430 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: a lot of times again it goes back to educating 431 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: education on what domestic violence is right and then provided 432 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: them with the tools such as the power and control 433 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 1: will helping them to identify that things that they have 434 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 1: been experiencing. It resonates with them and then it may 435 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: talk about, you know, and they may be dealing with anxiety, 436 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: they may be dealing with depression, and may talk about, so, 437 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: how have you been coping with this domestic violence? You 438 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: may begin to hear things such as when I begin 439 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: to drink more or I'm doing some other things that 440 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: are not so helpful. So it just depends on how 441 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: they show up in the session and when they're ready 442 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: to leave the relationship. But when they are ready, we 443 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: begin to talk about safety planet. And that is several 444 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: sessions in regards to taking that step to safetyople in it. 445 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: And I think that's important to pay attention to as well, 446 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: because I think some people may be worried that if 447 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: they go to a therapist and they are in a 448 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: domestic violence situation that the the whole therapy will be 449 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: focused on getting you to leave the relationship. That is 450 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,959 Speaker 1: not the case, or at least it should not be 451 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: the case. It should not be what it depends Okay, 452 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: not the joy. It depends, right, So let's let's let's 453 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: let's let's let's pause. It depends. So if if someone 454 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: isn't an active I would saying, if they're in a 455 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: situation that we should always be concerned about their safety 456 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: and will being right. So if someone say I'm afraid, 457 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,719 Speaker 1: right or it's happened to my children, then it begins 458 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: to you know, work with them, or should we have 459 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: the report right or reporting it should thinking about the 460 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: will being of the children or walking them through. So 461 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: it just depends. Also leaking that person to a shelter, 462 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: have plenty of times I've said, let's talk about ways 463 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 1: to talk about your safety, right, and sometimes they would say, 464 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to go to the shelter, and the shelter 465 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: work with them. But it's always thinking about the safety 466 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: first of that particular client when they're presented, right of course. Actually, 467 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: and so sometimes it's helpful to talk about relational patterns, 468 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: right the upbringing and what did you see a lot 469 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,479 Speaker 1: of times, you know, I've spent working six months with 470 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: people just thinking about looking at relationship relationship patterns, and 471 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: then they get to the point, Okay, what do you 472 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: want for yourself? You know, and making no uh, I 473 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: may have seen this, maybe this is all that I 474 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: have known, but I'm ready to change that narrative. I 475 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: want better and understand that they're not to blame for that. 476 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: So it's it's just a process, you know. It just 477 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: it's just a process. So it just takes one day 478 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: at a time, one session at a time. And so 479 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: when people are ready to leave, you know, we are 480 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: empowering them. We are given them the tools to do 481 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 1: that and make that decision, empowering them. M And I'm 482 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: curious also kind of going back to your comments about 483 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,719 Speaker 1: the emotional abuse, right, because I would imagine that that 484 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: would be some significant work probably in therapy when people 485 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: have been made to believe or not even trust their 486 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: own thoughts, you know, because there has been gas lighting 487 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: or you know, really taking a hit on their self worth. 488 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: So what kind of work might you be able to 489 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: do with them in therapy to to really target some 490 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: of those concerns. Yes, and so I have utilized a 491 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: variety of blends of connant behavior therapy, really helping with 492 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: the thought patterns, irrational thinking, and also I have used 493 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: some relational culture theory. Right. We're just really helping them 494 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: with understanding growth, falster and relationships and understanding how, especially 495 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: for African American women, how systems of oppression have contributed 496 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: to multiple experiences of oppression and discrimination of racism, how 497 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: they're more at risk for experience and domestic violence. For example, 498 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: if you're gonna say we're gonna refer them to an agency, 499 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 1: it's a possibility that they may get discriminated against because 500 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: of intersecting identities. And these are real things that we 501 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: have to understand why Black women as such at risk 502 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 1: for domestic violence when it comes to systemic or question 503 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: and racism and the complexity of it and how the 504 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: mest of violence shows up for them compared to a 505 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,719 Speaker 1: white woman. Mm hmmm, yeah. And I know in working 506 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: even just with students, you know, there is sometimes a 507 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 1: hesitation like if there's going to be a report made 508 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: or you know that you have to look at that too, 509 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: because it feels like a betrayal almost of the community, 510 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: like oh, I'm gonna put this person in jail or 511 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: something even that becomes a bigger priority than their own 512 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,239 Speaker 1: concern and welfare. Right, And that goes back to the 513 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: result again of historical oppression the present day racism, and 514 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: how African American women may be less likely to report 515 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: or seek hill or onesce of discrimination in the negative 516 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: stereotype of how African American men have been treated dealing 517 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: with police brutality. These are all factors and that can 518 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: discourage a woman from seeking help for domestic violence, and 519 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: then that contributes to the high rate of the mess 520 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: of alence. Right, they're not going to report. I don't 521 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: want that to happen. I don't want to be another 522 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: I don't want to contribute to how black men are 523 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: treated because of what I have ended. Right, So they 524 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: somehow take that responsibility on they don't report m Yeah. 525 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: So what are some of your favorite resources related to 526 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: this topic? Dr? Brown? For anybody who needs to read 527 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: more about this or is interested in learning more about this. 528 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: One of my favorite resources, the book I Help again 529 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: goes back to the education piece, is a book called 530 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,239 Speaker 1: Why Does He Do That? By Lundy Bancroft. And I 531 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: have found that book very enlightenment, but also on my 532 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: clients and people that I served, have found that, oh 533 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: my god, this book has really enlightened me, has really 534 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: opened up my eyes to what I am experiencing. And 535 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: there's a name for it now, right, I didn't know this, 536 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: but we have to understand the shame and the stigma 537 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: attached to domestic violence, the same as we have with 538 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: mental illness, and so there's a lot of shame attached 539 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: to it. So but when they begin to read the book, 540 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: or when we have the power and control will and say, hey, 541 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: now I feel educated, Now, I feel empowered. Now I 542 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: can begin to proceed with taking my voice back. But 543 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: a lot of times it's about education, it's about reading, 544 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: it's about helping you understand what you have endured. Right, 545 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: So that's one of my very first books that I 546 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: go to, and then one of my favorite podcasts I 547 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: would say is A Date with Darkness by Dr Natalie Jones, 548 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: and she is a licensed therapist and then you know 549 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: who specialized in working with people trying to hear from 550 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,719 Speaker 1: relational abuse and her work with narcissists and narcissistic behavior, 551 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: and I find that as a good tool for people 552 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: to really get education on tips and how to heal 553 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: and develop healthy relationships. You know, we are all relational 554 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: beings and we all desire relational contact and connections, but 555 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: I think it's important to learn about patters and learn 556 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: how to have a healthy relationship. YEA perfect Any other 557 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: resources or websites that you want to share. Yes, A 558 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: website that I go to is a National Center of 559 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: Violence against Women in the Black Community also known as 560 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: u JIMA, and I find that very helpful because they 561 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: have a strong voice on looking at and being taking 562 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: a stand on violence against whom in the Black community. 563 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: And also I would say a Call to Men, which 564 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: is an international Violence against Women eventual organization that really 565 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: promotes healthy manhood and then violence against women and girls. 566 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: So these are two resources and they provide a wealth 567 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: of information for the African American community. Yeah, perfect, And 568 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: where can we find you online? What's your website as 569 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: well as any social media handles you'd like to share. Yes, 570 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: my website is www dot Dr Shenita Brown dot com 571 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: and you can find me on Twitter, Dr she need 572 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: to Brown, Facebook and Instagram as well and adopted shened 573 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: a Brown. Perfect, And of course we will include all 574 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: of that in the show notes. Thank you so much 575 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: for joining us today, Dr Brown. I really appreciate it. 576 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Dr Joy for having me. It's 577 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: been a pleasure. Thank you so much for tuning in 578 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: for this conversation. To learn more about Dr Brown's work 579 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: and to check out the resources she shared, visit the 580 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash 581 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: Session to seventy eight and don't forget to text two 582 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: of your girls and tell them to check out the 583 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: episode right now. If you're looking for a therapist in 584 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: your area, check out our therapist directory at Therapy for 585 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want 586 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: to continue digging into this topic or just be in 587 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: community with other sisters, come on over and join us 588 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: in the sister circle. It's our cozy corner of the 589 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: Internet design just for black women. You can join us 590 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: at Community dot Therapy for black girls dot com. This 591 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: episode was produced by Freda Lucas and Alice Ellis and 592 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank you all 593 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: so much for joining me again this week. I look 594 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. 595 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: Take it care,