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Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Loving arms ain't nothing

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Speaker 1: like it when you're a kid, those arms that you

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Speaker 1: can rush to that no matter what the problem is,

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Speaker 1: they're going to embrace you and give you that feeling

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Speaker 1: that's unlike any other that you know, regardless of what happens, everything,

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Speaker 1: and I mean everything, it's gonna be okay. I've experienced

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Speaker 1: it in my life. It was actually the arms of

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Speaker 1: my grandmother. I knew what it was like. It's like

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Speaker 1: the warmest blanket on the coldest day. But there are

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Speaker 1: two kids that I've talked about before on this podcast

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Speaker 1: that didn't have those loving arms. They had the arms

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Speaker 1: of perhaps murderous mercenaries that they were surrounded by. Today.

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Speaker 1: It's important. This is an important time because of a

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Speaker 1: trial that's going on right now involving Chad day Bell.

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Speaker 1: But I don't want to talk about Chad day Bell.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about again JJ and Tyley. I'm

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Bags Dave. As

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Speaker 1: of this recording, I've appeared on a couple of national

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Speaker 1: television shows within the last twenty four hours, and the

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Speaker 1: reason I was asked to join those shows was because

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Speaker 1: a huge bit of forensic evidence was revealed in the

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Speaker 1: ongoing trial of Dave Well in regards to three homicides

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Speaker 1: that he has The prosecution says he has direct involvement in,

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Speaker 1: and Dave, I got to tell you almost I didn't

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Speaker 1: almost almost wept on air on Court TV just last

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Speaker 1: night because there was news that was revealed yesterday about

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Speaker 1: JJ and a little bit more about Tyley and what

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Speaker 1: they went through and also what was found in the

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Speaker 1: wake of I don't know how to describe it other

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Speaker 1: than desecration, the desecration of their remains out there in Rexburg, Idaho.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I know you were shocked when I

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Speaker 1: was to reveal this to you, Yes, and it takes

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Speaker 1: a lot to shock you.

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Speaker 2: Joe and I were sitting and working on a couple

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Speaker 2: of things and you matter of factly told me about

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Speaker 2: and I this whole story. I have followed JJ Valo

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Speaker 2: and Tyler Ryan and Tammy Dave Bell, but we have

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Speaker 2: followed this story since it began when JJ and Tyler

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Speaker 2: were missing. That's how long we have been on this story,

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Speaker 2: since before Laurie Vaalo married Chad day Bell, and we

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Speaker 2: have done a number of stories with Nancy. We've done

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Speaker 2: a number here. The bottom line on this particular episode,

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Speaker 2: We're going to assume that you know the story of

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Speaker 2: what happened with Chad day Bell and Lourie Vallo, and

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Speaker 2: I encourage you. If you don't know it, you can

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Speaker 2: look back at previous episodes here, you can look at

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Speaker 2: episodes of Nancy Grace. East Idaho News has done a

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Speaker 2: phenomenal job covering the case. Just can't can't say no

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Speaker 2: good about what they've done in terms of the coverage.

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Speaker 1: But our boy, I'm going to do a shout out here,

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Speaker 1: our boy, Nate Eaton. Yes, Nate, he might be out

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Speaker 1: of everybody. I've never seen a career that came around

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Speaker 1: like his, and it came around as a result of

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Speaker 1: the cases specifically, And boy, what a job he has done.

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Speaker 2: Just so we'll tell you you have to have talent

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Speaker 2: and skill to take advantage of something that's dropped in

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Speaker 2: your lap like this story was. But Nate Eaton is

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Speaker 2: the reason we know about it. Nate Eaton is the

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Speaker 2: one who followed it. Nate's the one who broke the story.

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Speaker 2: But your bottom line, the overview is Chad Dave Bell

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Speaker 2: married Tammy Dave Bell for twenty eight years. Laurie Vallo

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Speaker 2: has been married to several men. Laurie Vallo was married

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Speaker 2: to Charles Valo. Charles was murdered by Laurie Vallo's brother

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Speaker 2: Alex and as soon as Charles vallow was dead, Laurie

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Speaker 2: Vaalo moved with her old seventeen or sixteen year old

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Speaker 2: daughter Tylie and her seven year old son JJ, and

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Speaker 2: moved to Rexburg, where Chad da Bell was still married

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Speaker 2: in living with his wife Tammy. I say still because

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Speaker 2: that was the plan all along, was that Laurie would

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Speaker 2: get rid of her husband, Chad would get rid of

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Speaker 2: his wife, they would get married and live happily ever

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Speaker 2: after with no children. By the way, that means JJ

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Speaker 2: entirely both had to go too. That is the thumbnail sketch.

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Speaker 2: But what we're here to talk about today is JJ

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Speaker 2: and Tyley. You and I both did shows right when

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Speaker 2: their bodies were discovered. Yep, they had been missing and

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Speaker 2: presumed dead. There was plenty of evidence to show that

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Speaker 2: they were probably no longer with us. The day that

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Speaker 2: they were found in Chad day Bell's backyard was a

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Speaker 2: shocking day. I didn't know how much more we could

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Speaker 2: be shocked until they started talking about the autopsies I had.

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Speaker 1: I didn't. And this is one of these things that

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Speaker 1: you know, as a as a foreigner death investigator, forensic scientist,

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Speaker 1: college professor, podcast host, you think that there's nothing else

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Speaker 1: to be revealed. You think that every stone has been

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Speaker 1: over turned, if you will. I did until today, Yeah

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Speaker 1: I did. You know, I didn't see. I didn't see

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Speaker 1: this coming. And you know, I think that what's important here,

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Speaker 1: and I'll try to keep this brief, is that when

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Speaker 1: we in forensics go into a courtroom after we've done

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Speaker 1: an assessment of whatever the evidence, whether the evidence is

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Speaker 1: human remains or its fiber evidence or tool mark or

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Speaker 1: tire track or fingerprint or whatever it is, we we

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Speaker 1: have to tell. We are compelled to tell the truth,

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Speaker 1: not just morally but legally, and we try to stay

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Speaker 1: within within our guardrails, all right. And I saw something

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Speaker 1: that really that really gave me pause when I was

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Speaker 1: reviewing reviewing this case, and that that was a test

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Speaker 1: money of the pathologists that actually was tasked with doing

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Speaker 1: the examination on both of these kids. And just again,

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Speaker 1: I want to mention his name so that everybody remembers

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Speaker 1: it all right, and that's doctor Garth Warren and what

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Speaker 1: he observed. Let me talk to you as an academic

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Speaker 1: right now, what he observed and what he he annotated

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Speaker 1: in his findings. This is the kind of case. These

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Speaker 1: cases will be cases that will be used in the

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Speaker 1: future to teach with. Okay, because they're so markedly complex.

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Speaker 1: And even though these two victims are buried, you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess we could say, you know, within close proximity

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Speaker 1: of one another, you know property, Yeah, same property, and

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Speaker 1: you could if you were standing at JJ's grave, you

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Speaker 1: could look over and see where Tyler's remains were found.

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Speaker 1: But they're they're two very distinctly different events, totally different,

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Speaker 1: completely And if I were a profiler, which I am

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Speaker 1: not and have no desire to be, I would think

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Speaker 1: that there would be quite a bit of data there

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Speaker 1: to go through and kind of assess just based on

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Speaker 1: the burials themselves. Uh, what type of person you're dealing with,

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Speaker 1: what was going on in their in their mind? You know,

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Speaker 1: we hear a lot about organized versus disorganized crimes or events, uh,

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Speaker 1: and that generally applies to serial killers. But you can

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Speaker 1: still have that that is part of the profile when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about an isolated event like this, What what

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Speaker 1: do you make of it? Because if you're the pathologist

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Speaker 1: and you're trying to look for commonalities when you're working

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Speaker 1: two cases which you think are connected somehow, the police

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Speaker 1: are going to be staring you down. Man. They're going

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Speaker 1: to be looking at you, and they're going to say, hey, look,

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Speaker 1: is there anything here that you can see that there

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Speaker 1: is something in common with these events where we've got

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Speaker 1: an idea that the same perpetrator was involved. I got

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Speaker 1: to tell you ain't much. It ain't much. The only

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Speaker 1: thing that we have is geographic proximity.

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Speaker 2: And familial and they are.

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Speaker 1: You're right, you're right, You're absolutely right. Familial relationship here

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Speaker 1: between these two that in and of itself. And again

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Speaker 1: we go back to this idea of the circle you

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Speaker 1: know that these kids are contained in and there's look,

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Speaker 1: ain't much happening in Rexburg, all right, it's not the

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Speaker 1: crime capital of the world. What I'm saying, Oh boy, Yes,

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Speaker 1: when you look at Tammy day Bell uh, and you

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Speaker 1: look at you know, God rest her soul, uh, And

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Speaker 1: then you look at JJ and tilely, what are the

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Speaker 1: odds you know that you're gonna have three three, one

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Speaker 1: two three three people that either well, I think that

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Speaker 1: we can safely say met their end, met their end

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Speaker 1: at that at that location. What was the odds that

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Speaker 1: we happened in that when we play, when.

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Speaker 2: We watched JJ and Tylee their remains coming out of

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Speaker 2: the ground, and totally different they the way they were

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Speaker 2: packaged at death, totally different. Yes, Now I want to

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Speaker 2: put Tammy Dave Bell in her proper place right now

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Speaker 2: and just say, look, Jammy day Bell was married to

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Speaker 2: Chad Dave Bell for twenty eight years. She was in

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Speaker 2: his way to get married to Lori Valo. He had

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Speaker 2: to get rid of her. She died and he married.

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Speaker 2: She died October nineteenth. Her funeral was three days later,

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Speaker 2: less than two weeks after that, he was married to

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Speaker 2: Lori Valo.

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Speaker 1: Yeh.

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Speaker 2: And it was in December, December eleventh when there was

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Speaker 2: enough chatter going on around Rexburg about the relationship between

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Speaker 2: Laurie and Chad and the fact that her children, JJ

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Speaker 2: and Tyley were missing at that point, yep, that there

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Speaker 2: was enough interest in the story that they exhumed Tammy

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Speaker 2: day Bell's body. She supposedly died a natural death or

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Speaker 2: familiesai she've been in poor health. That was actually going

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Speaker 2: against what her friends said that she was training for

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Speaker 2: a marathon.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: You know, on the one hand, your friends and people

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Speaker 2: who know you and see you every day say you're

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Speaker 2: training for a marathon. But children who are no longer

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Speaker 2: living in the house with you believe their father who said, oh,

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Speaker 2: she was really sick and died in her sleep, and

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Speaker 2: of course didn't want to have an autopsy, so her

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Speaker 2: body's exhumed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can I tell you please Mammy real quick.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You know, with Tammy, you know, Kim and my wife,

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Speaker 1: Kim and I we followed, you know, we've followed this, uh,

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Speaker 1: these cases together, you know, and she'll hear what I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about and all that stuff, and of course she's

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Speaker 1: compelled to dig into it. And when she found out

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Speaker 1: that that Tammy had actually been a media specialist in schools,

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Speaker 1: and you know, Kim's a retired teacher and she was

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Speaker 1: heavily dependent upon people what used to be called the librarian,

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Speaker 1: the media specialist, and her best friend is a former

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Speaker 1: media specialist, and so there was like a connection there.

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Speaker 1: And you know, as Tom went by, I came, we

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Speaker 1: came to like Tammy. It's like it's almost like, if

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Speaker 1: you knew her, it seems like she'd be somebody you'd

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Speaker 1: want to sit down and have cup coffee with or

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Speaker 1: just chat with. She seems like, you know, like this

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Speaker 1: saintly woman that's walking to earth that helps everybody. The

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Speaker 1: kids went on and on, her colleagues went on and on.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing, Dave, here's the thing. That morning,

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Speaker 1: when they found Tammy and she's there in that bedroom,

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Speaker 1: I knew something was up. And this is why, because

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Speaker 1: when the story began to come out and I heard

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Speaker 1: that she had this kind of pink, frothy cone that

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Speaker 1: was issuing from her nose in her mouth, I knew

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Speaker 1: that that was anything but natural. No answers, no answers

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Speaker 1: at all. As a matter of fact, Tammy Daybell took

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Speaker 1: answers to her grave. And I think that the speed

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Speaker 1: with which that was done is indicative of this case,

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Speaker 1: in cases, in their totality, because you know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: really it's if you're an investigator, it's really, really tough

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Speaker 1: to look for evidence at a crime scene if you're

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Speaker 1: sprinting over the surface of the crime scene as opposed

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Speaker 1: to half step in it. And that's what That's what

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Speaker 1: happened with Tammy. Tammy's body was embalmed and she was

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Speaker 1: taken out of state Dave and buried in Utah. And

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Speaker 1: it took a while. It took a while. They had

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Speaker 1: to get an order of exhamation, and then the people

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Speaker 1: in Idaho didn't do the examination on her. These are

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Speaker 1: the people in Utah with the Utah State Emmy's office

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Speaker 1: down there, which is a fine organization, and they conclude

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Speaker 1: that she did, in fact die as a result of asphyxia.

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Speaker 1: Now asphyxia. Does Mama died in her bedroom as a

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Speaker 1: result of asphyxia?

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Speaker 2: Does that mean that a pillow was put over her face,

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Speaker 2: that she was strangled? I don't when I hear asphyxia, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm just a regular Joe. I don't know. Are there

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Speaker 2: optional ways that somebody can be asphyxiated?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, you've got any number weight. When you

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Speaker 1: say asphyxia, that means that you're being deprived of oxygen.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So holding my holding your jawsh shut and putting

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Speaker 2: my nose, my hand over your nose where you just

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Speaker 2: like that.

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Speaker 1: That's a six yeald death. Okay, that's that would be

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Speaker 1: I guess that that would be considered probably that's a

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Speaker 1: unique thing. I've never thought about that. That's uh, that's

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Speaker 1: that could be classified probably as a suffocation or maybe

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Speaker 1: even a smothering. Smothering is generally associated with a pillow,

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Speaker 1: right that's you know classically, and then you've got you've.

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Speaker 2: Got heating Murphy and one filow of the cook's nest

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Speaker 2: chief holding the pillow over.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, holding the pillow over his face. What a what

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Speaker 1: an incredible scene that was in that movie. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: you've got that plastic bag. Or then it can go

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Speaker 1: to a literature strangulation, you know, so you've got all

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Speaker 1: of these things are choking you know, perhaps and I

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Speaker 1: mean external like strangulation right.

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Speaker 2: Now, Okay, would that be real differently a strangulation different

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Speaker 2: than an asphixial death.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious it. No, In in my estimation, they're all

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Speaker 1: asphyxial deaths because when they are being asphyxiated, you're depriving

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Speaker 1: them of oxygen. And it can be a mechanical event

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Speaker 1: like with a ligature. They doctors will refer to that

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Speaker 1: as a mechanical assixiation. You can have compression asshixiation where

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Speaker 1: you literally have somebody sitting on someone's chest or literally

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Speaker 1: holding their body weight over somebody's face. There's just there's

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Speaker 1: a myriad of these things and they extend, and you

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Speaker 1: can have oxygen deprivation by being closed in a in

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Speaker 1: a small contained space where you consume all of the

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Speaker 1: oxygen in there, and you know, people dyeing grain silos

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Speaker 1: as well, because there's an absence of oxygen right now

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Speaker 1: with any datil.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned the frothiness the phone that she had at

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Speaker 2: her death, but I read on Dabell's autopsy on December

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Speaker 2: eleventh that she still had some foam and froth in

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Speaker 2: her lungs.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, do you know why that's happening? We

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Speaker 1: see it, you see it would gone away? No, No,

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Speaker 1: you could still see it. And uh, that's interesting because

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Speaker 1: she had been evolved, right, so there's still evidence of it,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they they found that, I would imagine

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Speaker 1: that that was discovered. I guess they could see it

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Speaker 1: with the unaided eye. But what's really going to be

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Speaker 1: the tail of tape with her is going to be

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Speaker 1: the microscopic slides, you know, because this is a very

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Speaker 1: violent event and it's it's like in a microcosm is

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Speaker 1: happening in a very tight space like this, and somebody's

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Speaker 1: preventing you from being able to breathe. And we've all

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Speaker 1: experienced not being able to breathe, you know at some

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Speaker 1: point in time, whether you're you had a big brother,

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Speaker 1: or if you know, if if you're you know, you

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Speaker 1: wake up with a start in the middle of the night,

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Speaker 1: you can't catch your breath. You know that happens. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's any number of Tom's. You know that this can occur.

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Speaker 1: But does that lead us to this idea that for me,

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Speaker 1: the specter kind of raises its head with the death

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Speaker 1: of Tammy and those those kids are missing. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: you're thinking about lightning striking right, what's the chances, what's

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Speaker 1: the chances baby, that's going to happen three times? And

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Speaker 1: the fact that these here's the thing. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it's possible, because they ain't never been in the house. However,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you could actually stand in Tammy Dave

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Speaker 1: Belle's bedroom, open up the blinds on that window sill

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Speaker 1: that she's got in there, and look out and see

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Speaker 1: the area where those bodies are buried. That's a chilling

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Speaker 1: thought when you think about it, all of this in

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Speaker 1: proximity to one another. Availability opportunity, access, access is the

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Speaker 1: big thing with all of these deaths. Who has access

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Speaker 1: to somebody's wife in bed in their domicile, Who has

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Speaker 1: access to these kids? Who has the opportunity with That's

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Speaker 1: what the prosecution is looking at. And so when the

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Speaker 1: bodies of JJ and Tally are found, oh boy, it's

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Speaker 1: all at that point, Tom.

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Speaker 2: It's Tyler Ryan's body was found at a place in

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Speaker 2: the backyard of you mentioned Tammy Dave Bell in her

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Speaker 2: bedroom and looking out over their burn pit, which is

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Speaker 2: where the they had a burn pit area and they

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Speaker 2: had a pet cemetery.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And there's one interesting thing that tied back to all this.

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Speaker 2: Alex Cox, that is Lorie Vallow's brother who worshiped her.

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Speaker 2: Alex was still alive at the time and around the

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Speaker 2: last time that Tyler Ryan was seeing after she was

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Speaker 2: last seen. It was amazing how Alex Cox's phone put

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Speaker 2: him in Chad day Bell's backyard. And the same time

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Speaker 2: Chad Dave Bell sends a text to his wife about

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Speaker 2: shooting a raccoon out in the backyard and having to

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Speaker 2: uh he was using the burn pile shot a raccoon,

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Speaker 2: which they don't come out during the day, and so

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Speaker 2: if she heard anything or smelled anything weird, that's what

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Speaker 2: she was smelling. Now we'll get back to the burn

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Speaker 2: pit and what was found in this burn pit area

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Speaker 2: in just a minute. But I really need to get

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Speaker 2: to JJ Vallo because the last thing we have from

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Speaker 2: JJ Vallo seven years old, and I remember the story

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Speaker 2: that Alex Cox, his uncle, was carrying JJ asleep up

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Speaker 2: to bed the last time he was seen alive by

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Speaker 2: people other than those who were into his demise. I

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Speaker 2: thought JJ might very well have been drugged and was

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Speaker 2: out then Joe, until what you told me today. I

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Speaker 2: thought JJ Valo's death was peaceful, as much as it

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Speaker 2: can be for a seven year old. But now I know, oh,

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Speaker 2: what forensic pathologist Garth Warren shared at trial that you're

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Speaker 2: going to explain, he was not asleep or dead at

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Speaker 2: that time in Alex's arms.

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Speaker 1: No, And you know why you said that. You know

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Speaker 1: why you thought that because you had a sliver of

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Speaker 1: hope in all of this horror. But let me tell

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Speaker 1: you something. If we are to understand correctly what doctor

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Speaker 1: Garth Warren is saying here, JJ's death was something almost

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Speaker 1: unfathomable as to the level of horror that this child experienced.

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Speaker 1: The thing about folks in my field, and it's I

340
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Speaker 1: think people call it a trope. I've never really known

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Speaker 1: what a trope is, but I think that that's what

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Speaker 1: they call a trope. I'm not really sure that the

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Speaker 1: old adage is that we speak for those who can

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Speaker 1: no longer speak for themselves, and people just kind of

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Speaker 1: when you go to conferences and you see things, people

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Speaker 1: throw that term out a lot. I've been guilty of it,

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Speaker 1: chief amongk centers here. But what I witnessed Dave on

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Speaker 1: the stand with doctor Warren was a man putting his

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Speaker 1: money where his mouth is. He painted a picture up

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Speaker 1: there on the stand of what these kids went through,

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Speaker 1: just just having to discuss the the links that he

352
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Speaker 1: had to go to with their deaths. And I know

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Speaker 1: that we want to talk about JJ, but just so

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Speaker 1: that folks understand, he talked about Tilely too in the

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Speaker 1: burn pit and they had a heck of a job

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Speaker 1: to have to undertake that. Dave, let me put you

357
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Speaker 1: this way. Her quote unquote autopsy that took place on

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Speaker 1: her remains took days days, days, plural.

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Speaker 2: It's understand it take two hours to do Tammy day

360
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Speaker 2: Bells autopsy. It took a day to do JJ's and

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Speaker 2: now you're talking a week.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it took days because she came in. Her mortal

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Speaker 1: remains came in in individual bags, not just a body bag,

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Speaker 1: but a body bag containing multiple bags, and it's everything

365
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Speaker 1: that they had collected and Dave, according to according to

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Speaker 1: what doctor Warren had stated, there were particulate remains throughout.

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Speaker 1: And let me give you a kind of a brief overview.

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Speaker 1: What he talked about is that he had multiple skeletal remains,

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Speaker 1: which you would expect after this period of time and

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Speaker 1: plus being subjected to fire. And he talked about the fire.

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Speaker 1: He talked about how these are obviously charred remains, but Dave,

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Speaker 1: can you believe this? There was still soft tissue. There

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Speaker 1: was still soft tissue with her, and he described it

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Speaker 1: as being I just I want to get his words right.

375
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Speaker 1: I think he used the word shrunken. And what that

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00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: means is, so when you see remains like this and

377
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Speaker 1: they've been burned, you talk about how the remains become dehydrated,

378
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 1: obviously because of direct heat, but also there's a process

379
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Speaker 1: that goes on after death with remains, particularly when they're

380
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 1: separated from the hole. When you have they're particulated all out,

381
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,959
Speaker 1: there's a process that takes place where you have this

382
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Speaker 1: dehydration of remains. Actually is a term that referred to

383
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Speaker 1: as desiccation. So desiccation happens and the remains, the tissue,

384
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: the soft tissue is so contracted that when you see it,

385
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Speaker 1: you look at it and say, you know what that's

386
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: That is tissue. I don't know which muscle group it's from,

387
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if it's from the thigh

388
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Speaker 1: of the calf. I don't know if it's from the bicep,

389
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 1: the tricept, you know, wherever. But you know that it's

390
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: soft tissue. But she was so fragmented that they could

391
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,719
Speaker 1: not come up with a specific cause of death for Tyley.

392
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: All they could say is that it is a homicide

393
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: and that it's homicidal violence. We've heard that term a lot.

394
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Speaker 1: And her her body was desecrated. I've touched on this

395
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: in the past, but he confirmed this. Doctor Warren confirmed this.

396
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: Her body was desecrated after death in the in the post, well,

397
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: what it means is that somebody took sharp, heavy tools

398
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: and stirred the fire with them and chopped her body up.

399
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: She's got extensive injuries they're talking about. I think, if

400
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, there was a shovel found and this

401
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: ties this ties Alex and Chad Daybell together. At that location,

402
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: they found a shovel there that had her DNA on it.

403
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: So if you're stirring a fire and nobody's ever stirred

404
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: a fire, and you're turning it, you have to spin

405
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: it over, but you're trying to get rid of a

406
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: human remain. You're chopping because in your mind you're thinking, Okay,

407
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: the smaller I can make this, the easier it is

408
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: to burn. Let that just sink in and kind of

409
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: drip down into your ground while they're just for a second,

410
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: when you begin to think about whoever is tending to

411
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Speaker 1: this fire standing over this little I say, little girl.

412
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Speaker 1: You know, I'm an old guy. She's a little girl

413
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: to me, and she's somebody's little girl. And she is

414
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: there having been burned, and you've got somebody over her

415
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 1: with these tools that are trying to break her up

416
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: to the point where she's more manageable in the superheated

417
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: environment where they're trying to render her down till there's

418
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: nothing left. And the problem is is that what else

419
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,719
Speaker 1: do you have to examine when it comes to Tyley,

420
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: Because if you're trying to determine what exactly killed her,

421
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: then you don't really have anything else left to hang

422
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: your hat on, and that becomes problematic, particularly when the

423
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: police are looking at this case. But we have to

424
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: go literally across the pasture at this point in time

425
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: and begin to think about what did they find with JJ. Well,

426
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: we do know that doctor Warren actually found when he

427
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: received JJ's remains. Doctor Warren actually discovered that the body

428
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: was essentially neatly packaged in bags secured with duct tape. Externally,

429
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: that JJ apparently had had duct tape over his mouth,

430
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: his wrists are bound with duct tape, his ankles are

431
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: bound with duct tape. But the most telling thing about this,

432
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: and this is where the true horror comes in, is

433
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: that what doctor Warren described was the fact that during

434
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 1: the course of this thing, at some point in time,

435
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: JJ had scratches on his neck. Now, what can be

436
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: implied by that, Well, doctor Warren believes that there is

437
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: a possibility that JJ had enough awareness where he is

438
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: trying with his bound hands in front of him by

439
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: the way, trying to reach up, perhaps in a confined space,

440
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: perhaps even buried already. He comes to and he's trying

441
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: to get the bag off of his head. Now, these

442
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: these scratches were located on his neck, and the way

443
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: doctor Warren described it, it was as if he were

444
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: attempting to peel the bag off. And here's the key.

445
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: These scratches are not post mortem injuries. Doctor Warren actually

446
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: noted in his examination that there was indwelling hemorrhage in

447
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: the scratch marks along this child's neck. So that leads

448
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: us to believe that JJ, contrary to what people may

449
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: have thought, was not quote unquote knocked out. He was there,

450
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: present in the moment that as he was dying, he

451
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: was trying to catch his breath with everything that was

452
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: within him, trying to seek out oxygen any way he could.

453
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: But yet there he was buried, perhaps already trying to

454
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: get that bag off of his head, but it wouldn't work.

455
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: He ran out of oxygen, he died. This is anything

456
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: but merciful, it's anything but humane. I don't know how

457
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: we can kind of do the calculus in our mind

458
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: to understand the depths to which people will go. But

459
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: I do know this. I do know that justice, whatever

460
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: that means, is coming, and there is a reckoning coming.

461
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: Let's wait and see how this one's going to play out.

462
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body backs. M

463
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: mm hmm