WEBVTT - How Class Action Lawsuits Work 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to Stuff you should know, A production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:14.160 Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:22.479 um Legal, Egal Clark. There's Chuck Man that was gonna 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:26.640 be Jerry's all right, well, Jerry can be Robert Redford, 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:33.239 so Chuck, Deborah Winger Bryant, and then Jerry Robert Redford, 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:37.080 Roland And this is stuff you should know. I never 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:40.720 saw that movie, really, yeah, I just want you know. 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:44.760 I was gonna too young for a legal procedural, I think, 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:46.960 and then I just never caught up to it. Not 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:52.280 just a legal procedural, a romance one too, Yeah, boring. 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:54.280 I saw it a bunch of times when I was 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:56.280 younger for some reason. I guess my mom must have 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:57.959 been into it or something. Now is just a long 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:00.920 for the ride, right exactly. Yeah, but it was good 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:06.200 if I remember correctly, We're uh, yeah, it was a 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.119 good I mean, you can't go wrong with either one 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:13.959 of those two, you know, wasn't there a third? Uh? 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:20.000 Legal Eagles three Olympus has fallen? I think there a 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:22.800 third person in that. Wouldn't it a romantic triangle? Or 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:27.759 am I just making that up? I don't know, I 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:30.160 don't I think you're there's the Last Days of Disco. 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.560 I'm looking now, Darryll Hannah's on the cover, so she 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:36.319 might have been popped in for a tasteful nude. Then 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:41.360 she probably plays a big she convulsives on the floor. Um, 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:46.480 you know she's married to right, No, Neil Young, I 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:48.600 didn't know that. I could totally see that now that 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.400 you say it, though. Yeah, they're the reason that Neil 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:53.960 Young and David Cross or David Cross would be funny. 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:57.280 David Crosby don't speak to each other anymore. Why did 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:00.920 did David Crosby used to like Daryl Hannah. No, he's 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.800 he's just a big jerk, and he like said something 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:05.840 about her in an interview that wasn't nice, like right 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:10.840 when they got together. Gez problem dead to me, He's 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:14.480 he's a notorious jerk. I didn't even know that, but 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.200 I could kind of see it. You know, he admits it. 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.240 That's even worse. I think that's worse. People who are like, 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.040 I'm just I'm just a jerk. Deal with it. It's like, no, 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:27.400 why don't you change your personality a little bit to 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.639 conform a little better to the rest of our expectations? 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:33.960 You s ob well, let me rephrase that. He and 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.799 this is all coming from the great, great documentary about him, 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.480 recent one. He is he admits it and has deep 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:45.720 regrets over how he treated people. Oh well that's good. Yeah, 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.680 who regrets his behaviors? That makes it easier to kick 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:50.760 somebody when they're down. You know, if they're like, deal 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:52.800 with it, you can't bring them down to your level 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.960 and kick them. But if they're like, I really regret everything, 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.320 you'd be like, yeah, you should really rub it in, 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:06.520 you know, especially as an old man. Sure, exactly so. Um. Obviously, today, Chuck, 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.120 we're talking about class action lawsuits. I think anybody who 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.040 could read the stuff you should know Tea Leaves could 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.320 have discerned that, or they could have just looked at 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:19.360 the title of the episode. Yeah you know something that 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.560 It occurred to me while we were doing researching this, 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:25.200 Like most I don't know about most, but many people 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:29.320 listening to this show have maybe even unknowingly been a 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.280 part of a class action lawsuit. Sure, I know I have. 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.480 I have to. I've gotten those little emails that say, 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.800 you know you got coming to you from whatever, right 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.280 You're like, every bit of your personal information was stolen 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.520 in the Equifax breach. So Aquifax is going to give 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:51.040 you some identity theft protection or a discount, which is 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.040 that's always the rub. Yeah, a lot of people probably 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:55.960 have been a part of a class action lawson. You 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.360 may not have been, may not have paid attention to it. 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:00.360 You may have gotten one of those things in the 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:02.200 mail and just been like what is this? Who cares? 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.360 Or even if you read the fine print, you might 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:07.640 have been like this is literally not worth my time 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:10.760 and responding for. But there's a lot of things that 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:14.920 happened in the fact by by the virtue of you 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.440 not responding to whatever card or something you saw, or 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:22.960 even like an ad on TV apparently qualifies as notifying 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.760 somebody that, hey, you may be a member of this 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:30.880 class action lawsuit. Yeah. I um, this kind of came 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.479 up recently in my life and that I've mentioned before 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.800 that I'm on a Facebook page of a community in 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:39.760 rural Georgia where I have some land in rural Georgia, 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.480 And uh, there are some Donald Trump's reporters that were 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.039 pretty upset that we're asking if they could bring a 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:52.520 class action lawsuit to overturn the election. Uh, presumably because 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.159 they don't like the result. But I didn't get involved 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.640 and jump in there and say, you know, you, like 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.479 what kind of damage is you gonna prove or whatever, UM, 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.320 because I think it would be interesting to try and 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:08.640 prove emotional and psychological damage for an election result. That 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.039 would be an interesting case. But that is I mean 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.360 that is it would be like most of the cases 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.799 around the election it turns out. But with the um. 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.800 With with that though, like you've kind of hit upon 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.159 a few things here, That the idea that there's a 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:26.480 group of people who were wronged in some way in 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:30.359 similar ways, who on their own might not get anywhere 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:34.640 with the case, but collectively like pulling together there their 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:40.200 resources UM or they're the multiple harms done UM like 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.360 taking those individual harms and tournament in one big, mushy pile. 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.520 That's the basis of a class action lawsuit. And it 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.000 really kind of gets to the heart of why they exist, 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:54.520 and that is that a lot of times, UM, you're 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:58.839 suing like like a big giant corporation with enormous resources 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:01.280 at their disposed of, they can you all day long 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.200 until not only does the lawsuit go away, but you 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:07.720 don't have any money left. And when you really look 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:09.400 at it. At the end of the day, you might 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.400 have really just been after a hundred or a thousand, 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:14.560 or even ten thousand, or even a hundred thousand dollars 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.520 worth of damages, which might seem like a lot to you, 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:21.599 but might actually be less than the amount that you 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:25.240 would spend on that case. And so when you when 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.560 you face those kind of odds, that kind of challenge, 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:31.039 you're just not going to file that suit. Any reasonable 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.800 reasonable person wouldn't file a lawsuit like that. But the 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.800 problem is, if that's the case, then that means that 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:43.440 giant corporations who are doing ill stuff, um can just 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.480 keep doing ill stuff, which is a new phrase. I'm 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:51.400 working on them taking it out for a walk, right term. Okay, well, 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.040 then this is an homage to the b Boys. But 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:57.120 the the idea that that that if you know, people 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:58.760 are just gonna let them get away with it because 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:02.280 it's like they can't for the court fees. That's a problem. 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:04.839 Which is one of the big things that that is 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.520 one of the big benefits that class action suits provided. 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:09.360 You can take all the separate people, put them together, 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:13.080 and now all of a sudden you have a formidable opponent. Yeah, 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.440 and it's obviously a part of civil law as opposed 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:18.400 to criminal law. Um, where I mentioned you have to 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.720 have some sort of injury. It could be physical, could 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:26.120 be emotional, psychological, obviously financial. Uh, And it's what's known 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:30.119 as a device and civil litigation, and all that means 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.960 is sort of that it doesn't really it's sort of 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:35.440 the same thing as any other civil case, but it 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:38.520 just allows multiple people to take part, and you know, 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:42.280 we'll go over all the little minor differences, but it's 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.880 sort of like treating that big body of people as 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:47.960 a single plaintiff, and in fact they do have to 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.680 even have a representative plaintiff. Like it can't be you know, 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:57.440 all Volkswagen owners versus Volkswagen. It would be and of 0:07:57.520 --> 0:07:59.920 course we'll talk about that real case, but I'm just 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.480 making this up. It would be Josh Clark versus Volkswagen, 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:06.240 and then Josh Clark would have a million angry Germans 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:11.240 standing behind him. Do I win in this in this 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.640 theoretical lawsuit? Tell me what's the shouldn't a big Volkswagen 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:16.400 because that was a real case that we'll talk about, 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:18.800 but let's say it was, Oh, I don't know, Uh, 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:24.200 you go Josh Clark versus you go Okay, yeah, sure, 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.120 I don't think Hugo was trying to advertise itself as anything, 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:30.520 but you goos that was their whole stick, you know, 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:32.800 super cheap. You don't see those on the road much anymore, 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.720 do you. Oh no, I think after just a couple 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.319 of years you stop seeing those on the road. But yeah, 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.520 you have a representative plaintiff or a lead plaintiff, and 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:44.000 there's is the name that appears on the case. Even 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:46.800 though and then we'll learn later to that they in 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.680 fact also they get a little bump, a little extra 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:52.360 money for being the lead plaintiff. Yes, they do get 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:54.200 a little because they're the ones who have to go 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:55.920 through all this stuff. They might have to show up 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:57.520 to court. They're the ones who have to coordinate with 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.480 the lawyers. They're the ones actually suing. But the thing is, 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.439 as if you show up and say, I am uh 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:09.000 a uh, well, we'll take a We'll take a recent example. 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.760 I used Johnson. I'm a woman here in this in 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.720 this situation, i have a vagina and every day, for 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:19.080 fifty years I've been using Johnson and Johnson's baby powder 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:23.240 on my vaginal region. And as a result, I have 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:27.160 ovarian cancer and the doctors have said, yeah, Calcoulm powder 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.520 is really bad for you. Johnson and Johnson's known as forever, 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:33.520 but they just didn't tell anybody. Um, So I want 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:36.840 to sue Johnson and Johnson and the legal offices that 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:40.040 I walk into and say this too. The first of all, 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:41.960 the lawyer is gonna jump up and click as heels 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:43.920 and then say I'm very sorry that this is happening 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.120 to you. But the lawyer will probably think, you know, 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.000 there's a lot of people who use Johnson's and Johnson 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:53.000 and Johnson's baby powder. I wonder if there's anybody else 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:54.559 like you. Will start to do research, and all of 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.560 a sudden, your one lawsuit is going to include a 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.400 lot more people and will probably become s defy as 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.560 a class action lawsuit. But you, the person who initially 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:08.920 filed this, will remain that representative plain if Yeah, boy, 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:10.600 I gotta say that that story had a lot of 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.559 emotional peaks and valleys. Thank you. I'm doing much better now, 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:19.160 by the way. Good. I'm glad the uh and you 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.440 know it does usually but not always, because there are 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:24.920 also cases like in Ron, which we'll talk a little 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:29.320 bit about but a lot of times it involves product liability. UM. 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:34.080 When bridge Stone Firestone had stuff going on there in 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.840 the early nineteen nineties and I guess for a decade, 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:42.520 the US came down and the judge said, from anyone 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:47.720 who had car owned or least one through two thousand 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:51.839 one Piotoford explorer during those years, then you are part 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.600 of this class. They call that the class, and then 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.920 uh the attorney who represents that class, and we'll talk 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.960 about how they get selected. They are many times referred 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:05.840 to as class council, which sounds very much like some 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:09.040 middle school title that you would run for or something. 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:11.800 But whenever we say class council, just think that's the 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:17.599 attorney representing all these people, right class. Yeah, so you 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:19.199 want to take a break and then talk a little 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:37.840 bit about the history of this stuff. Yeah, let's do it. Okay, stop, 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:46.640 you know, stop stop? Shouldn't you know? You stop? You know? 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:54.320 Stop stop? Shouldn't you know? So? Chucky said that class 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.120 action lawsuits are are a type of civil law right 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:01.400 which is not criminal law. But even more specifically than that, UM, 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:03.840 because they're a part of civil law, they're actually based 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:08.760 on common law, which is the legal body that's been 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:12.600 formed over the centuries, starting in England and even further 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:14.760 back than that. It turns out the Vikings are really 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:18.480 the first court that was ever set up in Europe. 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.679 Um that they actually started a lot of the legal 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.000 precedent that made its way over to England, that in 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:28.199 turn made its way over to America. So helmet tip 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:32.200 to the Vikings for all that. But um, the common 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:37.079 law is like the sum of all the judicial decisions 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:41.000 made over those centuries that set precedent, that was built 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.440 on and expanded on and refined. That's common law, and 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:50.079 common law um is the basis of originally of hearing 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:55.280 um these kinds of cases which are class action lawsuits. Yeah, 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.520 and these they didn't call them class action suits in eleven, 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.080 but they had them. And it wasn't, you know, thousands 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.560 of people against a tire company. It was a few people. 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.640 But uh, in England they allowed a handful of people 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:13.120 to get together occasionally in the in the village. And 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.400 you know, maybe I'm not sure. I didn't really find 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:20.600 why exactly they did this. Initially, My guests would just 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:25.559 be efficiency of the court maybe early on um, which 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:27.360 is sort of how it still is in a lot 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:31.080 of ways. Rather than trying thousands of cases or even 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:34.200 hundreds of thousands of cases, you can just get everyone 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.600 together in one room, and that's what they did in England. 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.320 They allowed a few people to file a single complaint 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.640 against the court. And this kind of carried over over 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:46.560 the years, eventually into Colonial America, along with some other 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.000 stuff dealing with law. Like like you said, a lot 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.720 of it sort of some didn't stick, some did, Yeah, no. 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.960 And there's like a period apparently from about the middle 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.720 of the UM I guess about the off teen hundreds 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:02.840 and the fourteen hundreds to the middle of the nineteenth 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:06.240 century where this just kind of went away in England, 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.600 but it persisted in Colonial America UM and then carried 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.760 on and then went back to England, UH and found 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:16.360 purchase in about the middle of the nineteenth century in 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:20.040 England's equity courts, which is a specific kind of court. 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.280 It's now part of regular civil court now, but for 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:27.359 a little while it was its own thing where if say, like, um, 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.600 you hired a tin smith to make a gravy boat 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:35.240 for you in like seventeen fifty eight, UM, you you 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.160 would take that guy to civil court if he if 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.600 he gave you one that was like, you know, only 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.280 half of a gravy boat. You couldn't hold gravy in it. 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:45.960 So what are you gonna do with this thing? Um, 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.440 it's totally useless. So you take the tin smith to court, Well, 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:53.320 you would probably expect money for damages, the money that 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.480 you gave him return to you. Civil court would handle that. 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.480 If you wanted to say, make the tin smith finish 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:04.120 the job, to complete this this gravy boat, then you 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:07.160 would probably take him to equity court. Equity court was 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.800 court that had to do with everything except monetary damages 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.840 or criminal court. It was the creative kind of court 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.960 where it really kind of called on to judge's um, 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:22.640 fairness and imagination to solve whatever problem was brought before it. 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:26.880 And this these equity courts, like we said, like I said, um, 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:31.520 we're we're eventually fused into regular civil court. But they 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.360 are where our understanding, like the modern understanding of class 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.920 action lawsuits were born. I get some of the eighteenth 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.880 century gravy man. I love gravy. I don't care what 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.400 century is from. It's a good band name too. So 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.920 the problem with equity courts, even early on is that 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:53.760 there was really no um kind of codified procedure for everything, 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.360 especially as these cases got bigger and bigger. Uh, as 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.840 far as people grouping up, there was no standard procedure. 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.880 And one of the biggest challenges with that, our guess 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:10.000 biggest controversies was whether or not people that weren't a 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:14.240 part of that case technically, um, but we're still a 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.400 part of it because they had the wagon wheel made 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.760 by the the local town smith that was faulty, whether 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.640 or not they signed up or not for that case, 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:26.200 whether they were bound by that decision. And it's a 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.800 little counter intoive to think about that, like who cares 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.760 if if Goody Smith isn't a part of this case, 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.600 maybe he doesn't care that his wagon wheel is faulty 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.240 or not. But what this does, if you look at 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.200 it on the other side, is Goody Smith can't like, 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.120 once they settle this thing, Goody Smith can't come along 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:48.440 and then say, well, I want to see you separately. 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.320 So then Goody Smith couldn't come come around later, or 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.400 I guess until they changed it, he could come around 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.720 later and sue again. But they had to work all 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:58.360 this out. They were like, that's not fair. You can't 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.600 have this big civil case, have someone technically be a 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:03.760 part of it but not assigned to it, and then 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.920 later on try and get their own separate damages. Right So, 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.439 but but I mean that's I think how it was 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:14.320 for a good almost a century, a little over a century, 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.000 where you could say, like, I didn't have anything to 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.119 do with this thing. Goody by the way, short for 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.480 good wife. So it's like Mrs Smith, well, I was 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.000 just kidding around anyway. So um yeah, but like the 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.359 the the ninth grade crucible reader in me could not 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.439 just let that pass. Remember that play? I do? I 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:37.720 love it? Um. So the thing is like for a 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.520 good century, like if you if even if you were 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.280 considered somebody who would be a member of that class, 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.640 if you hadn't signed onto this lawsuit, you could come 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.199 back around and say I didn't have anything to do 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.240 with that, like I want to sue you myself. And 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:55.040 that did kind of make things unwieldy because one of 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:59.479 the purposes nowadays for filing a class action lawsuit, at 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:01.679 least as are as like the defendant, like say the 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.600 big corporation is concerned, is to just settle this once 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.439 and for all, and so Eventually they came up with 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:11.240 something called Rule forty eight, which UM started to kind 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:15.639 of um include. It was like the birth of the 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:20.119 rules for class action lawsuits UM and Rule forty eight 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:25.119 morphed into Rule twenty three, Rule twenty three. Eventually nineteen 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:27.199 sixty six said you know what, We're just going to 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.760 say this, if you qualify as a member of a 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:34.119 class action class, even if you have nothing to do 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:38.120 with this, if you don't sign on, you're considered bound 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:42.040 to the decision, which means if you, if like the 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:46.040 people suing these people lose, you can't go back and 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.640 and sue them again and try yourself. You're bound by 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:52.520 that decision. And in nineteen sixty six they said, well, 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:54.240 how are we going to do this? And they said, well, 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:56.960 we need to just notify people, give people the option 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:58.800 to say I don't want to have anything to do 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:00.560 with the suit because I do want to see these 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:02.719 people on my own. And as long as you've give 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:06.000 them that option, the whole thing seemed pretty fair. Yeah. 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:10.600 Ninety seven was when the Supreme Court first adopted these 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.640 rules of civil procedure and the beginnings of Rule twenty three. 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:16.800 And this is when they sort of just dissolved a 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.080 lot of the separation between the law courts and equity courts. 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.159 But it was until sixty six that they finally realized 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.520 that was an issue. And they also, I mean, it's 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:29.760 a pretty um, it's a pretty dense thing Rule twenty three. 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:31.919 That was a lot that went on, and then that 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.200 was admitted again in two thousand five with the Class 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:38.240 Action Fairness Act, which among other things, said that, um, 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.840 you know, if it's over five million bucks, then this 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.400 has gotta go to federal court, federal district court because 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.720 that's too much money. Um. Another one of the things 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:51.520 from the Fairness Act of two thousand five is it 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.520 laid out some other criteria aside from the five million bucks. Um. 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.840 It said that any case involving planeiffs or of defendants 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:00.880 from like a bunch of ferent states. So if it's 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.720 like all across the country basically, and they call that 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:08.280 diversity jurisdiction, then the federal court can actually, uh, it 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.120 has to go to federal court under that case, right. 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:14.840 And then also if it's a hundred people are over it, 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:19.720 typically a hundred hundred plaintiffs are over it typically goes 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:23.399 to federal court. And I get the impression federal courts 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:26.840 is basically like, we're a little more equipped for this, 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:31.040 this the complexities and intricacies of a class action lawsuit. 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:34.440 That's the impression I have to you. Yeah, I mean, 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:38.000 I think they're just set up for it. Um. I 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.399 imagine it would be tough for a state court to 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:44.960 handle a case like Firestone Bridge Stone with that many 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:47.560 hundreds of thousands of people, maybe even millions. I don't 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:49.879 know how many eventual plaintiffs there were, but that's a 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:53.280 lot of tires. So I think that's true. But I 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.560 also feel like this whole thing smacks of federal courts 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.639 just basically being like, you know, let's just admit it. 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:03.440 That's state courts are run by hay seeds and yokels. 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:06.639 That's what it smells like to me. There's definitely the 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:14.199 undercurrent rules state court rules, that's right. So, um that 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.840 Rule twenty three, which again is very dense, as you said, 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:20.320 but it's also ominous sounding if you ask me, Rule 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:24.440 twenty three sounds like it's gonna mess you up pretty good. Um. 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:29.520 But it's basically the body of understanding for class action 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:33.119 lawsuits that's been established, you know, since the thirties up 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:35.880 to two thousand five with the Class Action Fairness Act, 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:37.760 like you were saying, and if you read it, you 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.360 can basically get a pretty good idea of what has 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:44.200 to happen for a class action lawsuit to go forward. Um. 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:47.040 Apparently each state has its own rules, but as far 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:51.160 as the federal districts are concerned, UM rule twenty three 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:53.960 is is it? And the first thing you have to 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:56.960 do is you have to become certified as a class 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:00.119 like your your lawsuit has to go from it's is 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:06.200 me suing you know, um, Exxon for the oil spill. Two. 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:10.159 I've got all these other neighbors and cannary owners around 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:13.440 here who are all affected by this oil spill. Um, 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:16.399 and we think we we have a good case against Exxon. 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:21.000 And very importantly, we all have the same kind of harm. 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:24.359 We have a common complaint, which is Exon spilled a 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:28.679 bunch of oil, messed up our livelihood and our lives um. 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:30.919 And we all you know, because we all have the 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:34.439 same kind of case. The defense Exxon could mount the 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:38.120 same defense against all of these complaints, so we would 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:43.439 probably be certified as as a class. Yeah, Like you know, 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:45.720 the common defense in the case of like Aaron Brockovich 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:48.080 that movie. I can't remember the name of the company 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:53.399 that was a defendant, but who wasn't Pacific Gas and Electricity, 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:56.640 the one who keeps setting off wildfires out in California. 0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:00.000 So they couldn't then have a defense. Um, one defense 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:03.720 against like a certain number of people and are certain 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:06.959 kind of person in town, Let's say it's probably more applicable, 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:09.800 and then another for another kind of person in town. 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:13.239 They had to mount a common defense. It's basically, I 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:18.440