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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, A production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh

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Speaker 1: um Legal, Egal Clark. There's Chuck Man that was gonna

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Speaker 1: be Jerry's all right, well, Jerry can be Robert Redford,

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Speaker 1: so Chuck, Deborah Winger Bryant, and then Jerry Robert Redford,

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Speaker 1: Roland And this is stuff you should know. I never

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Speaker 1: saw that movie, really, yeah, I just want you know.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna too young for a legal procedural, I think,

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Speaker 1: and then I just never caught up to it. Not

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Speaker 1: just a legal procedural, a romance one too, Yeah, boring.

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Speaker 1: I saw it a bunch of times when I was

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Speaker 1: younger for some reason. I guess my mom must have

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Speaker 1: been into it or something. Now is just a long

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Speaker 1: for the ride, right exactly. Yeah, but it was good

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Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, We're uh, yeah, it was a

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Speaker 1: good I mean, you can't go wrong with either one

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Speaker 1: of those two, you know, wasn't there a third? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Legal Eagles three Olympus has fallen? I think there a

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Speaker 1: third person in that. Wouldn't it a romantic triangle? Or

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Speaker 1: am I just making that up? I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: don't I think you're there's the Last Days of Disco.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking now, Darryll Hannah's on the cover, so she

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Speaker 1: might have been popped in for a tasteful nude. Then

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Speaker 1: she probably plays a big she convulsives on the floor. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know she's married to right, No, Neil Young, I

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Speaker 1: didn't know that. I could totally see that now that

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Speaker 1: you say it, though. Yeah, they're the reason that Neil

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Speaker 1: Young and David Cross or David Cross would be funny.

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Speaker 1: David Crosby don't speak to each other anymore. Why did

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Speaker 1: did David Crosby used to like Daryl Hannah. No, he's

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Speaker 1: he's just a big jerk, and he like said something

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Speaker 1: about her in an interview that wasn't nice, like right

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Speaker 1: when they got together. Gez problem dead to me, He's

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Speaker 1: he's a notorious jerk. I didn't even know that, but

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Speaker 1: I could kind of see it. You know, he admits it.

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Speaker 1: That's even worse. I think that's worse. People who are like,

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Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just a jerk. Deal with it. It's like, no,

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Speaker 1: why don't you change your personality a little bit to

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Speaker 1: conform a little better to the rest of our expectations?

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Speaker 1: You s ob well, let me rephrase that. He and

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Speaker 1: this is all coming from the great, great documentary about him,

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Speaker 1: recent one. He is he admits it and has deep

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Speaker 1: regrets over how he treated people. Oh well that's good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: who regrets his behaviors? That makes it easier to kick

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Speaker 1: somebody when they're down. You know, if they're like, deal

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Speaker 1: with it, you can't bring them down to your level

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Speaker 1: and kick them. But if they're like, I really regret everything,

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Speaker 1: you'd be like, yeah, you should really rub it in,

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Speaker 1: you know, especially as an old man. Sure, exactly so. Um. Obviously, today, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about class action lawsuits. I think anybody who

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Speaker 1: could read the stuff you should know Tea Leaves could

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Speaker 1: have discerned that, or they could have just looked at

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Speaker 1: the title of the episode. Yeah you know something that

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Speaker 1: It occurred to me while we were doing researching this,

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Speaker 1: Like most I don't know about most, but many people

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Speaker 1: listening to this show have maybe even unknowingly been a

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Speaker 1: part of a class action lawsuit. Sure, I know I have.

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Speaker 1: I have to. I've gotten those little emails that say,

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Speaker 1: you know you got coming to you from whatever, right

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Speaker 1: You're like, every bit of your personal information was stolen

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Speaker 1: in the Equifax breach. So Aquifax is going to give

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Speaker 1: you some identity theft protection or a discount, which is

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Speaker 1: that's always the rub. Yeah, a lot of people probably

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Speaker 1: have been a part of a class action lawson. You

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Speaker 1: may not have been, may not have paid attention to it.

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Speaker 1: You may have gotten one of those things in the

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Speaker 1: mail and just been like what is this? Who cares?

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Speaker 1: Or even if you read the fine print, you might

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Speaker 1: have been like this is literally not worth my time

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Speaker 1: and responding for. But there's a lot of things that

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Speaker 1: happened in the fact by by the virtue of you

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Speaker 1: not responding to whatever card or something you saw, or

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Speaker 1: even like an ad on TV apparently qualifies as notifying

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Speaker 1: somebody that, hey, you may be a member of this

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Speaker 1: class action lawsuit. Yeah. I um, this kind of came

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Speaker 1: up recently in my life and that I've mentioned before

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Speaker 1: that I'm on a Facebook page of a community in

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Speaker 1: rural Georgia where I have some land in rural Georgia,

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Speaker 1: And uh, there are some Donald Trump's reporters that were

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Speaker 1: pretty upset that we're asking if they could bring a

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Speaker 1: class action lawsuit to overturn the election. Uh, presumably because

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Speaker 1: they don't like the result. But I didn't get involved

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Speaker 1: and jump in there and say, you know, you, like

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Speaker 1: what kind of damage is you gonna prove or whatever, UM,

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Speaker 1: because I think it would be interesting to try and

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Speaker 1: prove emotional and psychological damage for an election result. That

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Speaker 1: would be an interesting case. But that is I mean

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Speaker 1: that is it would be like most of the cases

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Speaker 1: around the election it turns out. But with the um.

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Speaker 1: With with that though, like you've kind of hit upon

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Speaker 1: a few things here, That the idea that there's a

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Speaker 1: group of people who were wronged in some way in

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Speaker 1: similar ways, who on their own might not get anywhere

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Speaker 1: with the case, but collectively like pulling together there their

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Speaker 1: resources UM or they're the multiple harms done UM like

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Speaker 1: taking those individual harms and tournament in one big, mushy pile.

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Speaker 1: That's the basis of a class action lawsuit. And it

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Speaker 1: really kind of gets to the heart of why they exist,

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Speaker 1: and that is that a lot of times, UM, you're

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Speaker 1: suing like like a big giant corporation with enormous resources

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Speaker 1: at their disposed of, they can you all day long

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Speaker 1: until not only does the lawsuit go away, but you

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Speaker 1: don't have any money left. And when you really look

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Speaker 1: at it. At the end of the day, you might

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Speaker 1: have really just been after a hundred or a thousand,

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Speaker 1: or even ten thousand, or even a hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: worth of damages, which might seem like a lot to you,

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Speaker 1: but might actually be less than the amount that you

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Speaker 1: would spend on that case. And so when you when

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Speaker 1: you face those kind of odds, that kind of challenge,

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Speaker 1: you're just not going to file that suit. Any reasonable

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Speaker 1: reasonable person wouldn't file a lawsuit like that. But the

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Speaker 1: problem is, if that's the case, then that means that

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Speaker 1: giant corporations who are doing ill stuff, um can just

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Speaker 1: keep doing ill stuff, which is a new phrase. I'm

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Speaker 1: working on them taking it out for a walk, right term. Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: then this is an homage to the b Boys. But

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Speaker 1: the the idea that that that if you know, people

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Speaker 1: are just gonna let them get away with it because

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Speaker 1: it's like they can't for the court fees. That's a problem.

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Speaker 1: Which is one of the big things that that is

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Speaker 1: one of the big benefits that class action suits provided.

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Speaker 1: You can take all the separate people, put them together,

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Speaker 1: and now all of a sudden you have a formidable opponent. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's obviously a part of civil law as opposed

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Speaker 1: to criminal law. Um, where I mentioned you have to

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Speaker 1: have some sort of injury. It could be physical, could

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Speaker 1: be emotional, psychological, obviously financial. Uh, And it's what's known

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Speaker 1: as a device and civil litigation, and all that means

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Speaker 1: is sort of that it doesn't really it's sort of

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Speaker 1: the same thing as any other civil case, but it

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Speaker 1: just allows multiple people to take part, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll go over all the little minor differences, but it's

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Speaker 1: sort of like treating that big body of people as

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Speaker 1: a single plaintiff, and in fact they do have to

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Speaker 1: even have a representative plaintiff. Like it can't be you know,

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Speaker 1: all Volkswagen owners versus Volkswagen. It would be and of

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Speaker 1: course we'll talk about that real case, but I'm just

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Speaker 1: making this up. It would be Josh Clark versus Volkswagen,

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Speaker 1: and then Josh Clark would have a million angry Germans

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Speaker 1: standing behind him. Do I win in this in this

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Speaker 1: theoretical lawsuit? Tell me what's the shouldn't a big Volkswagen

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Speaker 1: because that was a real case that we'll talk about,

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Speaker 1: but let's say it was, Oh, I don't know, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you go Josh Clark versus you go Okay, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: I don't think Hugo was trying to advertise itself as anything,

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Speaker 1: but you goos that was their whole stick, you know,

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Speaker 1: super cheap. You don't see those on the road much anymore,

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Speaker 1: do you. Oh no, I think after just a couple

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Speaker 1: of years you stop seeing those on the road. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have a representative plaintiff or a lead plaintiff, and

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Speaker 1: there's is the name that appears on the case. Even

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Speaker 1: though and then we'll learn later to that they in

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Speaker 1: fact also they get a little bump, a little extra

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Speaker 1: money for being the lead plaintiff. Yes, they do get

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Speaker 1: a little because they're the ones who have to go

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Speaker 1: through all this stuff. They might have to show up

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Speaker 1: to court. They're the ones who have to coordinate with

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Speaker 1: the lawyers. They're the ones actually suing. But the thing is,

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Speaker 1: as if you show up and say, I am uh

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Speaker 1: a uh, well, we'll take a We'll take a recent example.

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Speaker 1: I used Johnson. I'm a woman here in this in

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Speaker 1: this situation, i have a vagina and every day, for

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Speaker 1: fifty years I've been using Johnson and Johnson's baby powder

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Speaker 1: on my vaginal region. And as a result, I have

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Speaker 1: ovarian cancer and the doctors have said, yeah, Calcoulm powder

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Speaker 1: is really bad for you. Johnson and Johnson's known as forever,

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Speaker 1: but they just didn't tell anybody. Um, So I want

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Speaker 1: to sue Johnson and Johnson and the legal offices that

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Speaker 1: I walk into and say this too. The first of all,

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Speaker 1: the lawyer is gonna jump up and click as heels

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Speaker 1: and then say I'm very sorry that this is happening

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Speaker 1: to you. But the lawyer will probably think, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who use Johnson's and Johnson

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Speaker 1: and Johnson's baby powder. I wonder if there's anybody else

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Speaker 1: like you. Will start to do research, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, your one lawsuit is going to include a

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Speaker 1: lot more people and will probably become s defy as

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Speaker 1: a class action lawsuit. But you, the person who initially

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Speaker 1: filed this, will remain that representative plain if Yeah, boy,

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Speaker 1: I gotta say that that story had a lot of

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Speaker 1: emotional peaks and valleys. Thank you. I'm doing much better now,

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Speaker 1: by the way. Good. I'm glad the uh and you

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Speaker 1: know it does usually but not always, because there are

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Speaker 1: also cases like in Ron, which we'll talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about but a lot of times it involves product liability. UM.

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Speaker 1: When bridge Stone Firestone had stuff going on there in

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Speaker 1: the early nineteen nineties and I guess for a decade,

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Speaker 1: the US came down and the judge said, from anyone

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Speaker 1: who had car owned or least one through two thousand

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Speaker 1: one Piotoford explorer during those years, then you are part

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Speaker 1: of this class. They call that the class, and then

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Speaker 1: uh the attorney who represents that class, and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about how they get selected. They are many times referred

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Speaker 1: to as class council, which sounds very much like some

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Speaker 1: middle school title that you would run for or something.

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Speaker 1: But whenever we say class council, just think that's the

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Speaker 1: attorney representing all these people, right class. Yeah, so you

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Speaker 1: want to take a break and then talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about the history of this stuff. Yeah, let's do it. Okay, stop,

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Speaker 1: you know, stop stop? Shouldn't you know? You stop? You know?

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Speaker 1: Stop stop? Shouldn't you know? So? Chucky said that class

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Speaker 1: action lawsuits are are a type of civil law right

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Speaker 1: which is not criminal law. But even more specifically than that, UM,

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Speaker 1: because they're a part of civil law, they're actually based

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Speaker 1: on common law, which is the legal body that's been

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Speaker 1: formed over the centuries, starting in England and even further

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Speaker 1: back than that. It turns out the Vikings are really

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Speaker 1: the first court that was ever set up in Europe.

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Speaker 1: Um that they actually started a lot of the legal

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Speaker 1: precedent that made its way over to England, that in

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Speaker 1: turn made its way over to America. So helmet tip

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Speaker 1: to the Vikings for all that. But um, the common

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Speaker 1: law is like the sum of all the judicial decisions

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Speaker 1: made over those centuries that set precedent, that was built

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Speaker 1: on and expanded on and refined. That's common law, and

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Speaker 1: common law um is the basis of originally of hearing

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Speaker 1: um these kinds of cases which are class action lawsuits. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and these they didn't call them class action suits in eleven,

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Speaker 1: but they had them. And it wasn't, you know, thousands

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Speaker 1: of people against a tire company. It was a few people.

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Speaker 1: But uh, in England they allowed a handful of people

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Speaker 1: to get together occasionally in the in the village. And

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe I'm not sure. I didn't really find

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Speaker 1: why exactly they did this. Initially, My guests would just

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Speaker 1: be efficiency of the court maybe early on um, which

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Speaker 1: is sort of how it still is in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways. Rather than trying thousands of cases or even

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of cases, you can just get everyone

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Speaker 1: together in one room, and that's what they did in England.

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Speaker 1: They allowed a few people to file a single complaint

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Speaker 1: against the court. And this kind of carried over over

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Speaker 1: the years, eventually into Colonial America, along with some other

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Speaker 1: stuff dealing with law. Like like you said, a lot

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Speaker 1: of it sort of some didn't stick, some did, Yeah, no.

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Speaker 1: And there's like a period apparently from about the middle

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Speaker 1: of the UM I guess about the off teen hundreds

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Speaker 1: and the fourteen hundreds to the middle of the nineteenth

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Speaker 1: century where this just kind of went away in England,

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Speaker 1: but it persisted in Colonial America UM and then carried

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Speaker 1: on and then went back to England, UH and found

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Speaker 1: purchase in about the middle of the nineteenth century in

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Speaker 1: England's equity courts, which is a specific kind of court.

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Speaker 1: It's now part of regular civil court now, but for

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Speaker 1: a little while it was its own thing where if say, like, um,

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Speaker 1: you hired a tin smith to make a gravy boat

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Speaker 1: for you in like seventeen fifty eight, UM, you you

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Speaker 1: would take that guy to civil court if he if

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Speaker 1: he gave you one that was like, you know, only

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Speaker 1: half of a gravy boat. You couldn't hold gravy in it.

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Speaker 1: So what are you gonna do with this thing? Um,

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Speaker 1: it's totally useless. So you take the tin smith to court, Well,

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Speaker 1: you would probably expect money for damages, the money that

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Speaker 1: you gave him return to you. Civil court would handle that.

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Speaker 1: If you wanted to say, make the tin smith finish

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Speaker 1: the job, to complete this this gravy boat, then you

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Speaker 1: would probably take him to equity court. Equity court was

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Speaker 1: court that had to do with everything except monetary damages

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Speaker 1: or criminal court. It was the creative kind of court

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Speaker 1: where it really kind of called on to judge's um,

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Speaker 1: fairness and imagination to solve whatever problem was brought before it.

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Speaker 1: And this these equity courts, like we said, like I said, um,

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Speaker 1: we're we're eventually fused into regular civil court. But they

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Speaker 1: are where our understanding, like the modern understanding of class

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Speaker 1: action lawsuits were born. I get some of the eighteenth

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Speaker 1: century gravy man. I love gravy. I don't care what

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Speaker 1: century is from. It's a good band name too. So

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Speaker 1: the problem with equity courts, even early on is that

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Speaker 1: there was really no um kind of codified procedure for everything,

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Speaker 1: especially as these cases got bigger and bigger. Uh, as

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Speaker 1: far as people grouping up, there was no standard procedure.

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Speaker 1: And one of the biggest challenges with that, our guess

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Speaker 1: biggest controversies was whether or not people that weren't a

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Speaker 1: part of that case technically, um, but we're still a

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Speaker 1: part of it because they had the wagon wheel made

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Speaker 1: by the the local town smith that was faulty, whether

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Speaker 1: or not they signed up or not for that case,

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Speaker 1: whether they were bound by that decision. And it's a

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Speaker 1: little counter intoive to think about that, like who cares

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Speaker 1: if if Goody Smith isn't a part of this case,

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Speaker 1: maybe he doesn't care that his wagon wheel is faulty

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Speaker 1: or not. But what this does, if you look at

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Speaker 1: it on the other side, is Goody Smith can't like,

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Speaker 1: once they settle this thing, Goody Smith can't come along

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Speaker 1: and then say, well, I want to see you separately.

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Speaker 1: So then Goody Smith couldn't come come around later, or

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Speaker 1: I guess until they changed it, he could come around

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Speaker 1: later and sue again. But they had to work all

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Speaker 1: this out. They were like, that's not fair. You can't

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Speaker 1: have this big civil case, have someone technically be a

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Speaker 1: part of it but not assigned to it, and then

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Speaker 1: later on try and get their own separate damages. Right So,

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Speaker 1: but but I mean that's I think how it was

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Speaker 1: for a good almost a century, a little over a century,

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Speaker 1: where you could say, like, I didn't have anything to

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Speaker 1: do with this thing. Goody by the way, short for

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Speaker 1: good wife. So it's like Mrs Smith, well, I was

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Speaker 1: just kidding around anyway. So um yeah, but like the

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Speaker 1: the the ninth grade crucible reader in me could not

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Speaker 1: just let that pass. Remember that play? I do? I

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Speaker 1: love it? Um. So the thing is like for a

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Speaker 1: good century, like if you if even if you were

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Speaker 1: considered somebody who would be a member of that class,

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Speaker 1: if you hadn't signed onto this lawsuit, you could come

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Speaker 1: back around and say I didn't have anything to do

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Speaker 1: with that, like I want to sue you myself. And

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Speaker 1: that did kind of make things unwieldy because one of

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Speaker 1: the purposes nowadays for filing a class action lawsuit, at

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Speaker 1: least as are as like the defendant, like say the

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Speaker 1: big corporation is concerned, is to just settle this once

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Speaker 1: and for all, and so Eventually they came up with

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Speaker 1: something called Rule forty eight, which UM started to kind

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Speaker 1: of um include. It was like the birth of the

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Speaker 1: rules for class action lawsuits UM and Rule forty eight

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Speaker 1: morphed into Rule twenty three, Rule twenty three. Eventually nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty six said you know what, We're just going to

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Speaker 1: say this, if you qualify as a member of a

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Speaker 1: class action class, even if you have nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with this, if you don't sign on, you're considered bound

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Speaker 1: to the decision, which means if you, if like the

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Speaker 1: people suing these people lose, you can't go back and

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Speaker 1: and sue them again and try yourself. You're bound by

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Speaker 1: that decision. And in nineteen sixty six they said, well,

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Speaker 1: how are we going to do this? And they said, well,

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Speaker 1: we need to just notify people, give people the option

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Speaker 1: to say I don't want to have anything to do

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Speaker 1: with the suit because I do want to see these

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Speaker 1: people on my own. And as long as you've give

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Speaker 1: them that option, the whole thing seemed pretty fair. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Ninety seven was when the Supreme Court first adopted these

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Speaker 1: rules of civil procedure and the beginnings of Rule twenty three.

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Speaker 1: And this is when they sort of just dissolved a

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Speaker 1: lot of the separation between the law courts and equity courts.

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Speaker 1: But it was until sixty six that they finally realized

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Speaker 1: that was an issue. And they also, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: a pretty um, it's a pretty dense thing Rule twenty three.

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Speaker 1: That was a lot that went on, and then that

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Speaker 1: was admitted again in two thousand five with the Class

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Speaker 1: Action Fairness Act, which among other things, said that, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, if it's over five million bucks, then this

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Speaker 1: has gotta go to federal court, federal district court because

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Speaker 1: that's too much money. Um. Another one of the things

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Speaker 1: from the Fairness Act of two thousand five is it

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Speaker 1: laid out some other criteria aside from the five million bucks. Um.

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Speaker 1: It said that any case involving planeiffs or of defendants

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Speaker 1: from like a bunch of ferent states. So if it's

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Speaker 1: like all across the country basically, and they call that

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Speaker 1: diversity jurisdiction, then the federal court can actually, uh, it

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Speaker 1: has to go to federal court under that case, right.

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Speaker 1: And then also if it's a hundred people are over it,

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Speaker 1: typically a hundred hundred plaintiffs are over it typically goes

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Speaker 1: to federal court. And I get the impression federal courts

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Speaker 1: is basically like, we're a little more equipped for this,

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Speaker 1: this the complexities and intricacies of a class action lawsuit.

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Speaker 1: That's the impression I have to you. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think they're just set up for it. Um. I

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Speaker 1: imagine it would be tough for a state court to

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Speaker 1: handle a case like Firestone Bridge Stone with that many

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of people, maybe even millions. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how many eventual plaintiffs there were, but that's a

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Speaker 1: lot of tires. So I think that's true. But I

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Speaker 1: also feel like this whole thing smacks of federal courts

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Speaker 1: just basically being like, you know, let's just admit it.

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Speaker 1: That's state courts are run by hay seeds and yokels.

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Speaker 1: That's what it smells like to me. There's definitely the

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Speaker 1: undercurrent rules state court rules, that's right. So, um that

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Speaker 1: Rule twenty three, which again is very dense, as you said,

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Speaker 1: but it's also ominous sounding if you ask me, Rule

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Speaker 1: twenty three sounds like it's gonna mess you up pretty good. Um.

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Speaker 1: But it's basically the body of understanding for class action

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Speaker 1: lawsuits that's been established, you know, since the thirties up

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Speaker 1: to two thousand five with the Class Action Fairness Act,

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Speaker 1: like you were saying, and if you read it, you

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Speaker 1: can basically get a pretty good idea of what has

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Speaker 1: to happen for a class action lawsuit to go forward. Um.

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Speaker 1: Apparently each state has its own rules, but as far

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Speaker 1: as the federal districts are concerned, UM rule twenty three

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Speaker 1: is is it? And the first thing you have to

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Speaker 1: do is you have to become certified as a class

380
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Speaker 1: like your your lawsuit has to go from it's is

381
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Speaker 1: me suing you know, um, Exxon for the oil spill. Two.

382
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Speaker 1: I've got all these other neighbors and cannary owners around

383
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Speaker 1: here who are all affected by this oil spill. Um,

384
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Speaker 1: and we think we we have a good case against Exxon.

385
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Speaker 1: And very importantly, we all have the same kind of harm.

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Speaker 1: We have a common complaint, which is Exon spilled a

387
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Speaker 1: bunch of oil, messed up our livelihood and our lives um.

388
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Speaker 1: And we all you know, because we all have the

389
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Speaker 1: same kind of case. The defense Exxon could mount the

390
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,120
Speaker 1: same defense against all of these complaints, so we would

391
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Speaker 1: probably be certified as as a class. Yeah, Like you know,

392
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Speaker 1: the common defense in the case of like Aaron Brockovich

393
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Speaker 1: that movie. I can't remember the name of the company

394
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Speaker 1: that was a defendant, but who wasn't Pacific Gas and Electricity,

395
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Speaker 1: the one who keeps setting off wildfires out in California.

396
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: So they couldn't then have a defense. Um, one defense

397
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Speaker 1: against like a certain number of people and are certain

398
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,959
Speaker 1: kind of person in town, Let's say it's probably more applicable,

399
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: and then another for another kind of person in town.

400
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,239
Speaker 1: They had to mount a common defense. It's basically, I

401
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 1: think all about equity, are making things equitable among kind

402
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 1: of for both sides. Yeah, which I thought was pretty interesting. Um,

403
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: and only you know, you have to get certified, and

404
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: only of lawsuits that are filed a class action even

405
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: get certification to begin with. Yeah, and the reason that

406
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 1: was lower than I thought, but I guess it also

407
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: makes sense. Um. What I could not find is this, Chuck,

408
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Speaker 1: what happens to the original lawsuit, the original plaintiff if

409
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Speaker 1: they're not certified as a class there as a class

410
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 1: action lawsuit, but you can probably just go sue on

411
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: your own. And I don't know, I cannot find out

412
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Speaker 1: the way that I couldn't find out was the case

413
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Speaker 1: that first piqued my interest about that was UM Duke's

414
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 1: versus Walmart. I think it was Dukes that all were

415
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 1: versus Walmart, which turned out to be the biggest class

416
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,159
Speaker 1: action class ever created. It consisted of one and a

417
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: half million women who had been employed. It's bigger than

418
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 1: the US military, by the way, but they were every

419
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Speaker 1: woman who was employed by Walmart UM between I think

420
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 1: uh nine any time after UM and the whole the

421
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: whole lawsuit was that Walmart was basically promoting men more

422
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 1: quickly and giving men more resources to advance into management

423
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Speaker 1: positions than women. And the idea was that if you

424
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 1: were a woman, you were harmed by this, uh equally.

425
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Speaker 1: So it made sense that that that this would get

426
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Speaker 1: certified as a class action suit because any woman who

427
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: worked for Walmart would have been harmed by not having

428
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: the opportunity to advance. But then Walmart argued and said, well,

429
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: you know there's no national or company wide policy that

430
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: says you can't advance women, you can advance men more quickly.

431
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: That all of these advancement decisions are made up of

432
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of local decisions. So since there were

433
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 1: so many different decisions that affected all these different women.

434
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,719
Speaker 1: This class doesn't make sense. And they actually went went

435
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: all the ways Supreme Court and Supreme courts at Walmart's right.

436
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: This is this doesn't make sense as a class action

437
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: suit because all of the harms could have been for

438
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 1: different reasons, carried up at different people. Um. But the

439
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 1: reason that does make sense to have that that certification

440
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: clause is because any defendant has a right to defend

441
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: themselves against any accusation in court. And so if everybody's

442
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: accusing them of the same harm, then it makes sense

443
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: of certifying them together as a class. If there's different

444
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: harms that aren't quite the same, then the defendant should

445
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: be able to defend against that that accusation, that accusation,

446
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 1: that accusation, and you shouldn't lump all those people together

447
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: into a whole class. Right. So the judges in charge

448
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: of defining the class. Uh, And like we said, it's

449
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: gotta you know, it's gotta be specific to the problem. Uh.

450
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: At hand, it can't be all Bridgetone tire owners it was,

451
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: unless it's all bridge Stone tires. But it's it turned

452
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: out it was just this one tire on this one car.

453
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: And so you have to really define that like if

454
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: you have this car during these years, Uh, then you

455
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: are part of this class. And um, from that point

456
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: it has the notification that we talked about has to

457
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: take place. Whether it's you know, you've seen TV commercials

458
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: probably to have this kind of thing. Uh, you see

459
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: advertisements in the newspaper, you probably get a mailer. It

460
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 1: depends on how broad it is. Um, they're not gonna

461
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: do a TV commercial if they don't need to, because

462
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: that costs money obviously, uh. And that's an expense. But

463
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: they're gonna notify everyone, uh, pretty in pretty quick order

464
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: because what they want is for every do you know

465
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 1: they were a part of this class, that's a part

466
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 1: of that class, and whether or not you want to

467
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: opt in or out. Uh. And if you opt out

468
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: and you are within the scope of that class, you

469
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: can you can do so if you want to. If

470
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: it's I'm not sure why anyone for these like kind

471
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: of small things that seemed to happen a lot, would

472
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: opt out. Uh. I think they probably just count on

473
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: people ignoring that kind of thing their check for five

474
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 1: dollars in the mail, but doing anything, Yeah, you can't

475
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: opt out if you're I don't know if you're a

476
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: person who's just like I don't want my name on

477
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: any list, and I don't want to be a part

478
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: of any you know, if you're kind of a uh,

479
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: paranoid type as far as the government and court cases go,

480
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: you may want to opt out just to not be

481
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: a part of something so small. Well, the I think

482
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 1: the reason that they included is because if you are

483
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: some Let's say you are somebody who um whose house

484
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: was washed away by the oil spill at the of

485
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: the X on L D s UM. But the class

486
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: action lawsuit was everyone who was affected by the oil,

487
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: so it would include people whose houses lived or whose

488
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: houses were a mile away, whose front yards got covered

489
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: in oil. Well, you'd be like, wait a minute, whatever

490
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: they're gonna get is nothing like what I need the

491
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: damages that I'm seeking, So I'm gonna opt out. Um

492
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: And because they can't yeah, and because there's tons of

493
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: real reasons to opt out. The five dollar check coming

494
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: from the credit card company. Sure, but I'm saying like

495
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 1: they can't differentiate who's who's getting that mailer from who's not,

496
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: which is why they put the onus on the person

497
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: getting that mailer. Seeing that TV commercial to say, oh,

498
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: I need to opt out because I need to sue

499
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: them on my own. I can't be part of this

500
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: class because when that settlement is reached and they say

501
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: everybody's gonna get five dollars for the for the trouble. Um,

502
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: that's what you got for your house being washed away,

503
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, So then the judge

504
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: is actually gonna appoint the council, which is different than

505
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: how it usually works. The judge is going to look

506
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: at this and say, um, and this is for uh,

507
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: I think for defense only, right. I guess the judge

508
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: can change the plaintiff, but it's typically the lawyer who

509
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: actually files the case. I think it's unusual for the

510
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: judge to overrule that unless it's someone who just doesn't

511
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: have the responsibility or maybe that kind of background. Sure, yeah,

512
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: I mean I think like, if um, somebody walked in

513
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: with the Johnson and Johnson complaint in the you know,

514
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: the lawyer was just like a local ambulance chaser, they

515
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: probably would get replaced with like a larger national firm

516
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: that had the resources or the understanding, that had like

517
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: contexts and like the um um uh professional um witness field.

518
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: As far as like medic medicine and cancer is concerned,

519
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: Like that guy just wouldn't have the resources, so he

520
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: might be changed. But yeah, I'm guessing it's probably rare.

521
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: Um But the point is that the judge has the

522
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: ability to who decide who is the lawyer for the

523
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: plaintiffs in the class action. Yeah, I think it's probably

524
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: more rare because lawyers understand this and they probably wouldn't

525
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: file if they knew that they would be replaced, unless

526
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: it's just to get it going and they know they're

527
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: going to be replaced, Like and what was the breaking

528
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: bad's been a better call Saul? When they I think

529
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: in like season two or something, when they figure out

530
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: that the nursing home is taking advantage of the seniors

531
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: overcharging them. Like the first thing that Saul Saul did

532
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: was go to the larger firm and say, like, we

533
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: need to partner up because he knew he couldn't handle

534
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: it himself. That's what I'm guessing happens. Yeah, and then, uh,

535
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: I didn't see better call Saul, But that sounds right

536
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: to me. Oh you didn't. It's not pretty good. It's

537
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: not breaking bad, but it doesn't seek to be breaking bad.

538
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. Yeah, I've heard a lot

539
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: of people said, like it better, but I could see

540
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: that it's a difference. Um. And then eventually the judge

541
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: and again you know if you haven't noticed, and it's

542
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: sort of like in the early days, the judge has

543
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot more say in class action

544
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: cases than a lot of other kinds of cases, really

545
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: making a lot of decisions that they don't get to

546
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,479
Speaker 1: decide in other kinds of cases. In this case, one

547
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: of the final things they get to decide is the

548
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: distribution of damages. And they you know, they use other

549
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: people for insight, They develop a plan with people on

550
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: their team, but they developed this plan to distribute whatever

551
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: monetary damages, if it's you know, three billion dollars, they're

552
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: going to figure out how to approve that settlement and

553
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: how to distribute that settlement, including this is a very

554
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: key thing, as we'll see later, including how much those

555
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: attorneys are going to get paid. Right. Um, So you

556
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: want to take a break and then come back and

557
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: talk about some of the advantages and disadvantages of class

558
00:31:50,680 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: action suits. Yeah, let's do it. Yah, Stop you know stopping?

559
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: Shouldn't you know? Stop? You know? Stopping, shouldn't you know? So?

560
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: One of the big advantages obviously something we already mentioned, um,

561
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: a lot of people. There's power in numbers. A lot

562
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: of people is more significant than one person, and a

563
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: lot of people pulling their resources is more significant. Lawsuits

564
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: cost a lot of money and in many, many cases,

565
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: it is not worth it for someone to go after

566
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: a company for you know, you kind of just have

567
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: to do the math, like how much is this gonna

568
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: cost me, what's the potential payout? Is it worth the risk?

569
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: Whereas if you can band together with a bunch of

570
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: other people, it's a huge, huge advantage, right. One of

571
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: the other advantages is um the more people you have,

572
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: the more damages are going to be awarded if the

573
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: planeiffs win, which means you're going to start attracting increasingly

574
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: higher caliber lawyers to your cause who could be your

575
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: your class counsel. And the reason why is because in

576
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: cases where you're seeking damages, lawyers often don't get paid

577
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: unless they win. But if you win, then the lawyers

578
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: get a big fat pay day out of it. So

579
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: the bigger the class, the better the law firm um

580
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: or legal team representing that class is probably going to

581
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: be at least more experienced, you know, yeah, for sure.

582
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: Another huge advantage is is that you're going to get

583
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: your case hurt. If individual cases, they go first come,

584
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: first serve. So if an individual brings a big lawsuit

585
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: and they win, that company might be out of business

586
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: before you can even get your suit going. And if

587
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: you're part of a class action lawsuit, it's going to

588
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: make sure that everybody gets there p to the pie

589
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: basically exactly. So, Um, there's a lot of reasons to

590
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: do this. Another another one too, is it makes sense

591
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: for um corporations. They have an incentive to try to

592
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: settle fairly with a class action suit because it will

593
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: handle it will make this big years long, sometimes decade

594
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: long problems um go away finally, once and for all. Yeah.

595
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 1: And you know, there's a lot of press that comes

596
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: along with a class action suit. Yeah, far more pressed

597
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: than than an individual case. So it definitely behooves the

598
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,919
Speaker 1: defense to try and get these things wrapped up quickly

599
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: because it's just bad news for them. Yeah. And on

600
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: the same on the other side of that same coin, Chuck,

601
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 1: like that large amount of press that gets generated by

602
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 1: these big, big cases also kind of keeps corporate mouth

603
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: feasans in line, you know, makes the company. It probably

604
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: does more than if we didn't have such things as

605
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: class action suits. But that's one of the theoret go

606
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: buy products about that. Yeah, I got some property to you.

607
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 1: Is it called the Brooklyn Bridge. It's wonderful. So. Um,

608
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: there are some problems with class action suits. They're not

609
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: the candy land that we've described them as entirely. Um. Instead,

610
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of um frivolous class action suits

611
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 1: that have been filed over the years, um by lawyers

612
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: who are looking to make a fast buck, in part

613
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: using that bad press as a threat, like do you

614
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: really want this to be you know, to get dragged

615
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: out in court, Just go ahead and settle, and you know,

616
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 1: I'm the lawyer. I'll take my big fat cut. Um.

617
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: And that's a that's a big problem actually, and that's

618
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: a big perceived problem too, that class uh class council

619
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: walk away, you know, whistling and laughing all the way

620
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: to the bank, while the individual members are just getting

621
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: five bucks for their their problems, even though they're the

622
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: ones who had the thing befall them in the first place. Yeah. Um.

623
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: And also, you know, if you choose. Like, let's use

624
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: that exon example. If you get bad legal advice in

625
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: your house was destroyed more than other people's property, and

626
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: you don't opt out, you can't then say, oh, well,

627
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: you know I only got this much. My whole house

628
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: was destroyed. I really want to bring a lawsuit again.

629
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: You can't do that unless you opt out. So that

630
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: is a disadvantage that you that's sort of your one

631
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: shot basically at any compensation. Yeah, I think the rule

632
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: of thumb is if you didn't even know that this

633
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: wrong had befallen you, it's probably not that big of

634
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,919
Speaker 1: a deal, and you're not gonna want to opt out

635
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: because then that means you have to hire your own

636
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: lawyer and go through the trouble of suing somebody, which

637
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: is never pleasant or fun. Um. So, like I was saying,

638
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: like those those class lawyers are a favorite target of

639
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: tort reformists and critics because, um, the the if the

640
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: plainiffs win and the judge rules in the plane of favor,

641
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: one of the things that judge will do is figure

642
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: out what the compensation is for the lawyer. Uh is

643
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 1: going to be a lot of times that comes out

644
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: of the settlement right, Like, if everybody gets ten billion dollars,

645
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: the judge will say, well, you attorney who led this

646
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: case in your law firm and your legal team, you're

647
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: gonna get this fee. And I was reading up on it,

648
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 1: and it sounds like it's fairly arbitrary. There's no good

649
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: rule of thumb. And in fact, lawyers who represent class actions,

650
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: um may actually get a lower percentage fee than they

651
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: would if they were representing somebody on an individual basis.

652
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: But the thing is, these payouts can be so huge

653
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 1: that even if it's a really small percentage, it's going

654
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: to be just this incredibly large amount in real numbers.

655
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: And so a lot of people are like that, I

656
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 1: didn't earn that. They didn't they didn't deserve that, especially

657
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 1: when they find out that, you know, a million people

658
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: got a coupon for half of a free tire from

659
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: Firestone for having deadly tires on their car for ten years. Yeah,

660
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: those are and they you know, they tried to um,

661
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: they tried to rectify that in part of the the

662
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: c a f A. The Class Action Fairness Active two

663
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: thousand five. With these coupon settlements, those really rubbed me

664
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: the wrong way. Um. It wasn't a class action suit,

665
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: but there was something involved. At one point, I was

666
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 1: a season ticket holder for the Atlanta Falcons and I

667
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: can't remember what the deal was. Now, it wasn't a

668
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: class action suit, but there was something to where they

669
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: wronged the season ticket holders in some financial way. Terrible playing. Yeah,

670
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: we should have brought the class action suit for the

671
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: past thirty five years. Those North Georgia people would join it,

672
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 1: yeah exactly, but they um, they did that coupon thing,

673
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: and they were like, well, because of whatever it was,

674
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: this upcoming season, you'll season ticket holders will get off

675
00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: anything from the Falcons merch store. And that just really me.

676
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: It's like because they're just you're spending more like the

677
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: people that fall for that, or just giving them even

678
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: more money. That's a big criticism is that it and

679
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: it it establishes or keeps established an ongoing uh commercial

680
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: relationship between the person who wronged you and you the

681
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: person suing them. Uh. And that is a big criticism.

682
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: Some people say a good A good reply to that

683
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: is just have cash settlements or UM. You could have

684
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: a whole product settlement like UM, rather than you having

685
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: a coupon for some percentage off, so you still have

686
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: to give them money. They say, we'll give you the

687
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 1: jersey of your choice, free and clear, and you never

688
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: have to see us again, or maybe even like from

689
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: the NFL dot com stort, it doesn't even have to

690
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: be like a foul a falcon's jersey. That's a solution

691
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: to that too. But one of the big problems was

692
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: lawyers who were representing these coupon cases. Um, they were

693
00:39:55,160 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: taking a percentage of the entire value of the ponds, right,

694
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: And so what Kafa in two thousand five or six

695
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: sought to change was saying, like, you really shouldn't do

696
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: that because a lot of people don't actually redeem that.

697
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: So you shouldn't get a percentage of the people's coupons

698
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,919
Speaker 1: who are never going to redeem that coupon. You should

699
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: get a portion of the coupons that are going to

700
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: be redeemed. And that is just as hard. Figuring out

701
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: how many coupons are going to be redeemed is as

702
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: hard as it sounds from what I understand. Yeah, and

703
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: this there's one case in two thousand thirteen that you

704
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: sent over that was pretty interesting. There was a teenager.

705
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: His name was that guy who measured his subway sandwich

706
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: his foot long. We he was Australian, so say it

707
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 1: in Australian. He was that guy. Uh, And he measured

708
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: his foot long and it was only eleven inches long,

709
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 1: and he took it to attorney Jackie Childs, and then

710
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,879
Speaker 1: Jackie Childs didn't take the case, and so the kid

711
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: went away. And then another kid measured his sandwich and

712
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: his name was well actually, and he actually got this

713
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: thing taken to court because he didn't have a twelve

714
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: inch sub on his from his subway sandwich. It it

715
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: baked up a little bit short, yes, and that was

716
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: an actual case. Of course, I'm getting around about those names.

717
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: But um, although I wish I wasn't. Uh, the attorneys there,

718
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 1: we're gonna get over a half a million dollars in

719
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: fees for what ended up being no pay out whatsoever,

720
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: just Subway saying we'll we'll make these things bake up

721
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: to twelve inches. Now, well, Subway even said we can't

722
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: guarantee that we cannot. They're like bread doesn't bake in

723
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: exactly the same way. It's just that's not how it works.

724
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: And the court eve intended to agree with that. But

725
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: the point was no one was going to get anything,

726
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: not even like a six inch sub nothing a free inch. Yeah,

727
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: not even a free inch. You're just going to get

728
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 1: you know, Subway will stay in business. But these lawyers

729
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 1: were going to get a half a million dollars and

730
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: the judges like, you know, I forget this, We're just

731
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: gonna dismiss this entire case. That's right. Jackie Childs was

732
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 1: very disappointed. There was also a similar um a similar

733
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: one when when the Center for Science and the Public

734
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: interests hire some lawyers to sue Coca Cola, who owned

735
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: Vitamin Water at the time. Envitamin Water used to have

736
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: this hilarious ad campaign where it promised all these ridiculous

737
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: health benefits that any reasonable person knew were not true,

738
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: and they were suing for that. They were actually suing

739
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: because vitamin water didn't disclose how much sugar it had

740
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 1: in it um. Even though it was ridiculous health claims,

741
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 1: it was still kind of purporting to be healthy, and

742
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: these the Center for the Science and the Public Interest

743
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: was like, this is not healthy at all, and so

744
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: they sued. Coca Cola didn't do anything but stopped I

745
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: think advertising the way that they were. But those lawyers

746
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: still got two point seven three million dollars in fees,

747
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: even though no one else got anything of sugar and

748
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: vitamin water. Yeah, I believe crazy tastes delicious. I don't.

749
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: I don't. I didn't know it head sugar in it.

750
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: That's I'm offended. That's why they got sued. Uh. And

751
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,320
Speaker 1: you know, there have been some very famous civil class

752
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: action suits over the years. The largest ever obviously where

753
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: the tobacco settlements, and that was by tenfold next to

754
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: the second highest one, tobacco settlements. And I don't think

755
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,800
Speaker 1: it's over yet even UM two hundred and six billion

756
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: dollars so far from that decision. Forty six states. Uh.

757
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: The attorney generals from forty states were involved. UH. And

758
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: they obviously couldn't pay that out all at once, but

759
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: what they were ordered to do was UM pay out

760
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: for medical costs for smoking related illness over the course

761
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: of twenty five years UM. The next highest was the

762
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: BP spill for twenty billion. Volkswagen comes in at number

763
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: three with fourteen point seven billion, and that one was

764
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: pretty significant and that it wasn't a coupon payout, it

765
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: was it was a pretty good restitution. I think in

766
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: that they said, you know what, we will actually buy

767
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: back We'll fix your car for nothing, or we will

768
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 1: buy back your car or d your lease with no penalty.

769
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: And this is when Volkswagen cheated the software to try

770
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: and cheat US emissions tests so wrong, it was a

771
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,839
Speaker 1: big scandal. Um, there's plenty of there are still like

772
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 1: unfolding as we speak, like the Johnson and Johnson Malcolm

773
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: powder one UM. If you watch Sveengoli or anything else

774
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: on ME TV, you're probably well well versed in UM,

775
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: the Boy Scout of America UM sex abuse case that's ongoing.

776
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: Apparently brother was one of the first plaintiffs in that case.

777
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: Oh I think I remember you talking about that. Yeah.

778
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 1: Now there's like seventy thousand members of that class and growing. UM.

779
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: And then there's if you've ever heard that ad for

780
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 1: MEZO book, that's actually a MESO theely ooma guide that

781
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: you will get sent to you by the lawyer of

782
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: that class action UM settlement who's still looking for plaintiffs

783
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: UM from against the asbestos manufacturers. So there's still plenty

784
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: on going. Like now that we've talked about this, it'll

785
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: be like that bider mine Hoff thing, well you you'll

786
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 1: see class action ads on TV all the time, now, yeah,

787
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: I mean there in Ron was a big one. Remember

788
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: Finn Finn the diet drug, That was a big one.

789
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: That was a three point eight billion dollar payout. UM

790
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: the silicon breast implants, that was a big payout. Yes,

791
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: But that one, from what I understand, was total bs.

792
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: It was it was based on medical hysteria, and later

793
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,720
Speaker 1: science backed up the company's claims that they had nothing

794
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: to do with. I think it was connective tissue disorder UM.

795
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 1: The science. Nobody was carrying out the science. It was

796
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: all basically paid testimony for the plaintiffs UM, who were

797
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: not necessarily even scientists. And the on the other side.

798
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: Nobody had any science. And then science came later on,

799
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: but it was after this settlement had been reached for

800
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: billions of dollars. That was a bit of a scam.

801
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 1: It turns out. Did they get it back? I don't.

802
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Probably not. That's not how it works.

803
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Section suit, right, yeah, it's millions

804
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 1: of people. You got anything else? I got nothing else?

805
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:30,720
Speaker 1: All right, Well, if you want to know more about

806
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: class action lawsuits, just watch me TV. Uh. And since

807
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: I said that, it's time for a listener mail. Hey guys,

808
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: this is another coincidence email, and this one. You know,

809
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: we eat a lot of these, like, Hey, I was

810
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: listening to the show and there was a tornado near

811
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 1: me or whatever on tornadoes, but I thought this one

812
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 1: was special. Hey, guys, I was listening to the Fort

813
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: Knox episode. In the listener letter about wetlands and having

814
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: to be happening to be at a wetland, I might

815
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: share I've had two very random coincidental things. A few

816
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: years back. I was driving into the small town into

817
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: a small town in southwest Colorado where I live, and

818
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: one of you mentioned a penny farthing. Uh. If you

819
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: don't know what a penny farthing is, dear listener, is

820
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: the bicycle with that giant, giant front wheel and the

821
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: tiny little back wheel from the what I mean with

822
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: those nineteenth century I guess yeah, early the two. Um,

823
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: I glanced over to the bike lane, and sure enough,

824
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: there was a guy riding a penny fark thing. That

825
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: is that is the most amazing thing I've heard in

826
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 1: a long time. I've never seen one in real life,

827
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: even I don't think I have. I think I've seen

828
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: like an antique in the store or something like that,

829
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: but I've never seen somebody riding. Although this would not

830
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: be nearly as amazing if the person turns out to

831
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: be writing from Brooklyn, because I'm sure that's a pretty

832
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: common sight from Brooklyn to Colorado would be something else. Yeah,

833
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: I guess. But one of the chances this guy's listening

834
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: to that, that's amazing thing. That's it is astounding. And

835
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 1: why were we even talking about Penny Farthings in the

836
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: first place. You know, it's a good word. Uh. It

837
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: was the first time I had seen one of those

838
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: in that town I've lived in for twenty five years.

839
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: Next was this summer, after dropping off some clients to

840
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: put on your episode about ice climbing, just as I

841
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 1: was driving out of town, Uh, to a to a

842
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: mecca destination for ice climbers around the world. It's a

843
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: little less impressive. Yeah, And that is from Sean and

844
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: until you ride Colorado. Very nice, Sean, Thank you for

845
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: the first anecdote, the second one, thanks for nothing. If

846
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: you want to get in touch with this like Sean did,

847
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: and tell us your best anecdote, we want to hear it. Um.

848
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 1: You can get in touch with this via email at

849
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:51,399
Speaker 1: stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should

850
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 1: Know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts

851
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

852
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.