WEBVTT - Chapter 3 | A Knife in the Heart of My Freedom 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:05.160 This series include sensitive and potentially distressing topics, including sexual 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:19.280 assault and abuse involving children. Listener discretion is advised. Anthony 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:21.960 de Pippo and Andy Kreevak were in County lock Up 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:26.680 for months waiting separate trials. They weren't the most popular 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:30.240 inmates on the block, given their charges the rape and 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:32.000 murder of a twelve year old girl. 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:35.279 One thing that's very hard for me to say is 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.680 during this period of time, the guards and the inmates 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:44.400 were urinating in orange juice, and at some point I drank. 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:48.760 That Anthony had acute guest writers from the rancid food 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:52.000 in jail, and a scout broke out in rashes from 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:56.480 bathing and filthy water. More intolerable still was no, he 0:00:56.560 --> 0:01:00.840 didn't belong there. It had nothing to do with Joe's murder, 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:05.480 and knew Andy had no pardon that either. Still, it 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:07.959 was Andy who'd signed the confession that put him in 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:11.240 this barrel, and so Anthony burned to get his best 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:19.000 friend alone and soon to find out why he betrayed him. 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.759 Eventually they met in the jail house library. There were 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:27.600 guards nosing around, so they spoke and coated whispers. Andy 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:30.319 said that when the cops brought him in. They browbeat 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:35.240 him for hours. Pacstaldo and Bill Quick screamed in his 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:39.840 face while one of them brandished his gun. They refused 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:41.920 over and over to let him speak to a lawyer, 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:45.400 what he used the John, or even call his father, 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:48.600 and then they sent him in with their lie detector guy, 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:53.640 an older cop named Dance Stevens. Stevens wired him up 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:57.520 and interrogated him for hours, then told him he failed 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:02.640 the polygraph. As Andy sat there sobbing, Castaldo put a 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:06.680 statement in front of him, a nine page statement written 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:11.280 out by Bill Quick. As Anthony listened to his friend, 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:15.320 he had a shock of recognition. It was exactly what 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:17.720 the cops had tried to do to him before his 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:21.639 lawyer burst in and stopped them. But Andy had no 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:23.480 lawyer on retainer. 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:29.000 And he was broken by Costalo and Quick, and he 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.000 was not leaving until he signed that statement. 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:41.520 So now here they both were equally fucked. Nine months passed. 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.120 Andy's try was up first. 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:49.200 March nineteen ninety seven. Krevac picks his jury. 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:54.280 Three weeks later, on April sixteenth, that jury came back 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:59.000 with a verdict. Anthony paste in the common area, waiting 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.320 on Andy's return for a court the. 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:04.600 Day he came back, He's like, yo, I bleuw y'all. 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.799 When the guy says, they blew that street talk for 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.280 I lost for the trial. I blew trial. I remember 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.520 he was walking right under the TV. He just walked 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:18.560 right by and said that shit. Anthony felt those words 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:22.799 in the pit of his stomach. My fuck doesn't look 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:27.440 good for me. Now they know Andrew Kreevac guilty of 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:34.519 the murder, and the media was against me. Everybody was 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:39.400 angry and they knew how to use that. The newspaper 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:41.720 was putting my picture with the biggest beard that I 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:45.640 had against the girl when she was seven. So you 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.560 got this tiny, tiny girl and this big big man. 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:54.720 Everybody had an interest somehow in it, and everybody wanted 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:56.480 and believed. 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:56.800 At was me. 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:05.400 Next, it was Anthony's turn on the docket. He felt 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:11.120 doomed in advance, and suddenly, weeks before his trial started. 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:15.040 One of the biggest things in this case happens. I 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:19.520 get a call to the visiting room. Dominic Neglia walkstro 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.000 well three hundred and fifty pounds of them. 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.039 Domin Neglia, your recall was the third kid in the 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.960 car when Putnam cops caught them with angel dust. You'll 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.320 also recall those cops pulled them over moments after Dom 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:37.320 stopped to make a phone call. Only Dom knows if 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.920 he actually dialed his grandma as he claimed, or if 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:44.560 he made that call to tip off the cops. In 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:46.880 any case, Dom, it's something you want to get off 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:47.720 his chest now. 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:51.560 And he sits down and he's basically on the edge 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.040 of tears. He's like, I feel bad about Andy. I 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.919 think this is my fault. I made up the story. 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.800 And he said, I told the police you said to 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:02.919 me these things you didn't say to me, and now 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.000 you guys killed this girl, and I want to take 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:05.840 my story back. 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.440 Tom spilled the story of how the cops coerced him. 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:19.360 They showed up unannounced at his school, dragged him out 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.359 of his special needs class so often that the principal 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.960 banned them from campus. So then they pulled the same 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.880 stunt at Olive Garden, where he worked after school. But 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.839 the cops rousted him so often there and the manager 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:37.320 fired him. And that wasn't all, said Don. Then there 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.960 was the physical stuff. He said. Costaldo hit him in 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.200 the back of the head with his handcuffs down on 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:48.680 all fours. Dom screamed he would sue, but Castaldo looked 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:52.159 at him and laughed, I don't know what you're talking about. 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:57.080 We just saw you fall off your chair. Oh that's rich. 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:02.440 Because Costaldo was finally caught on camera years later beating 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:07.120 and stomping and choking a defendant whose hands and feet 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:12.040 were padlocked, Castaldo lied through his teeth and said the 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:16.440 attack never happened, but it was captured in glorious living 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:26.320 color on the county's own security cameras. In the end, 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:30.000 Dominic says he'd finally cave to make the torture stop. 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.640 He fed the cops some names he'd heard Anthony say 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:41.760 and said those guys were involved in Josette's murder. But now, 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:45.039 said Dommy wanted to take it all back, to stand 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.000 up in court and tell the truth, tell a jury 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.240 that none of what he told the cops was true. 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:51.599 No. 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.559 Sooner did dom leave the jail house than Anthony called 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:59.040 his lawyer. The lawyer had Dom write and sign a recantation, 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:03.719 and it was all in writing. I got you. I'm 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:04.520 going walking on. 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:32.200 My madness, laughter, my fears, sorrows, deaths are endless, bless. 0:07:33.160 --> 0:08:00.120 The valley, my DearS, this is the devil's quarry. 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.560 By the time the cops were done with Dom, he'd 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.280 lost count of the times they dragged him into talk. 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.040 He'd also lost count of the stories he told them 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:15.040 about the night of Joseph's murder. The details changed wildly 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.400 every time he opened his mouth, but the kernel of 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:22.960 those stories Anthony and Andy's involvement became the crux of 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:24.920 the cases against them. 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.480 The charges against twenty one year old Anthony to Pippo 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.560 are first degree rape and second degree murder. To Pippo's 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.360 trial is being held in the Putnam County Courthouse in Carmel. 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:37.319 It's alleged to Pippo and another man, nineteen year old 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.480 Andrew Cribbock, killed twelve year old Josette right on October 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:41.720 fourth of nineteen ninety four. 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:47.200 Anthony's case was tried in Carmel in the courthouse on 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:48.400 the town's main road. 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.880 It was the old courthouse, so it looked like the 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.960 courthouse from a time to kill. It was like, you know, 0:08:56.160 --> 0:09:00.960 high ceilings, wood pillars, portraits of white men from the 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.760 eighteen hundreds, and you know, and then also the judge 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.600 looked like he was a white man from the eighteen hundreds. 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:12.559 Judge brats once again, Big Larry came through for Anthony. 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:15.800 He paid over sixty seven grand up front to a 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.920 primetime lawyer. His name was Bob Leader, and he had 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.840 a certain swagger, having a reputation for being the rare 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.040 attorney in Putnam County who won a murder case. 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.920 Bob Leader looks like Saddam Luscine, Like you remember Sadam 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:36.199 smoking a cigarette, you know, just calling people. Bob Leader's 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:42.720 face was the same face. I trusted him. I felt 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:47.480 like I had a shot. 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.600 At a pre trial hearing, the Leader argued his motion 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:57.040 to call Big Dom this witness as the original accuser. 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.800 He argued Tom was essential to the case. 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:05.880 He did try, really try to get dominic neglia understand, 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:08.199 but the judge was just. 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:10.400 Wasn't having it. 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.440 He denied the application he used dominic neglia. 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.800 Why did that judge an old sawhorse named Bill Bratz 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:22.920 bar Dom from testifying. He said Dom's testimony was quote 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:29.719 too conjectural, too collateral, that it didn't seem his word reasonable, 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:34.280 and so he decided what the jury would weigh. Rather 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:39.440 than leave that task up to the jury. 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:39.840 So that just stuck the knife in the heart of 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:41.800 my freedom. I was done. 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.280 On day one of Anthony's trial, the Buttnam DA went first. 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.480 He told the jury a version of the story that 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.960 Dom told a group of teens hanging out at the 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:58.439 gas station in town, a night of partying gone off 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:02.319 the rails in a van owned by Andy's dad, and 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:04.760 the rape and murder of a twelve year old girl 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.760 by Andy and Anthony. The DA declared he had a 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:13.480 direct eyewitness who would testify to that. Her name was 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:14.400 Denise Rose. 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.480 So well, James Anthles, he is almost fair that the 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:31.960 test wire about to give will read the truth and 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:33.360 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:37.760 So healthy God. Finally, when have you ready before we 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:40.640 hear from Denise, the one person who claims to have 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:44.520 seen Josette's murder. We're going to jump forward twenty years 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:49.520 to an inquiry launched by Anthony's lawyers. The focus of 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:53.480 that inquiry the handling of the Joset Right murder by 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:57.040 the Putnam Sheriff's Office, or, to put a fine point 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:00.320 on it, the handling of that case by investing Gator 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:05.559 Castaldo and his partner Quick weeks of depositions were taken 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:09.719 in that probe. The lead lawyer for Anthony's team was 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:10.520 Nick Preston. 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:14.800 Fair to say, this was the biggest case of your career, Yes, sir, 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:19.640 not even close right, unfortunately, No, that's. 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:24.120 Pack Castaldo, the eldest loving Bruiser's it was. 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:28.079 It was a horrific murder and rape of a twelve 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:28.600 year old girl. 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:30.560 Have rape a murder of a twelve year old child 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:32.280 as bat as a guess, I would think so. 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.920 But your job, that's all you were doing. 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:38.240 Yes, sir, every day, all day. 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:40.880 Yes, once once I've found into a murder case. 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.360 Yes, sorry, I'll remind you that Castaldo had never worked 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:50.199 a murder before, and right from the start it showed that. 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:51.040 Was your first murder case. 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:55.679 Yes, sir, I. 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:57.920 Did not have the experienced hands on. 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.480 I was not a person that invests. He gave a 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:04.640 lot of homicides. And this is Bill Quick talking. He 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:08.680 was coly detective in Josette's murder and the one who 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:12.760 hand wrote all the witness statements from teens allegedly in 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:17.600 the van when Josette died. Quick was another old school lawman, 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:22.959 though with his brush mustache and Dustball Complexion. The lawman 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.679 he most resembled was Wyat. 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:29.440 Herb Well, I have certain rules I moved by. I've 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.640 lived by these rules all my life and I brought 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:34.880 that into law enforcement. 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:36.160 What are those rules? He left. 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.800 Those rules are basically that you do the right thing 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.120 all the time. Everything that you can do, could do 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.120 it properly. You can't make assumptions. 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:51.240 According to Castaldo, the night the boys were busted for PCP, 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:54.920 Dom volunteered a tip about the murder. 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.559 Dominic Neglie told me about the van and the people 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:00.439 that were there, and when he gave the name it 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.520 of people. I wanted to speak to these people that 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.440 maybe they had information involving what could have happened, did 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:07.720 you set. 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.840 The details of Dom's story would vary wildly over time, 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:15.199 but the gist of it was this, On the night 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.839 of Joseph's murder, She's in the back of the van 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.880 owned by Andy's dad. With her. In that van where 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:26.480 Anthony and Andy and three other Putnam teens, a. 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:27.560 Little street kids. 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:39.360 They were all troubles every single walk. The cops who 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:43.200 were specially interested in one of those troubled teens, a 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.160 girl named Denise Rose I'm that. 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:46.680 The testimony are about to do with you the truth, 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:48.040 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:48.880 Yes, thank you. 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:55.240 Good morning, Miss Rose, good morning. Have you ever had 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:56.560 your deposition taken before? 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.400 Anthony and Denise had been in grade school together and 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.960 then in high school, their tasts for drugs brought them closer. 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.920 Denise Rose was somebody in my same grade. I just 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.400 knew Denise Rose from being in school, and then I 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.600 kind of became more friendly with her, like they're in 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:14.240 high school. 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.760 High schools generally when the stoners find each other, and 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:23.000 like Anthony, Denise had zero fear. She jump into a 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.520 car to prowl the South Bronx alone, a short white 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:30.000 girl looking for crack cocaine on some of the deadliest 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:31.160 streets in America. 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:36.040 I mean, we mutually enjoyed doing drugs, and we mutually 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.080 enjoyed go you can get drugs, And then we would 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.160 go to kind of cool places while we were doing 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.800 drugs and go to the beach and go to the 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:46.200 cliffs overlooking eighty four and like, you know, you smoke 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:48.960 and you'd look out and it's kind of like, you know, 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:52.680 you got like a pretty background to get it, you know, 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.400 and you're tripping, or you're you're smoking something you know 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:57.560 you want to be in kind of these settings that 0:15:57.600 --> 0:15:58.400 are kind of nice. 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.720 Denise had them over to her folks house for dinner, 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:06.560 but it never turned romantic, says Anthony, except for one 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:08.560 druggy night when they hooked up. 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.880 I had moments of weakness and she was right there. 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:15.760 I had a lot of hormones going on. I needed 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.160 to get rid of them. But then I got on 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.720 high and then I'm like, what am I doing. I'm 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.560 saying I'm sorry, I can't and then I'm like, well, 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.200 I got to go to this club tonight, but I 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.040 don't want to be hanging out with you. So I 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:29.680 put her down, and I think I put her down 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:30.600 a little too hard. 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.160 A few weeks after he told denniseeedn't want to hang 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.880 with her, Anthony tried to patch things up, not because 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.600 he'd been racked by guilt, but because he needed a 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:44.080 ride of the city that went about as well as 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:44.880 you'd expect. 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.680 I tried to call her and she was very dismissive, 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:50.560 and I thought it was because of the way I 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.520 kind of like broke it off with her, But he 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:54.200 didn't know. 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:58.880 Was Denny's was talking to the cops or that Carmel, Hey, 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:06.119 that really is a bitch. Twenty years later, Denise was 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:10.480 one of the people deposed by Anthony's lawyers. Here she 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:14.440 is in twenty nineteen under questioning from Nick Breston. 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:17.240 And when someone says to you, do you remember how 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:19.479 many times you smoke crack? I wanted to say to him, 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:21.399 do you remember how many times you wiped your ass? 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.440 Since there were no recordings made at Anthony's trial, we're 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:28.840 using the tape from this deposition to give you a 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:34.480 sense of Denise's testimony, but to properly introduce her. Here's 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:40.159 some facts about Denise's involvement with Anthony's case. Castaldo in 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.119 Quick called her in the first time on April second, 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:48.120 nineteen ninety six for perspective. That was five months after 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:52.280 Joseid's body was found and five months after Anthony and 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:56.920 Andy were busted for PCP. Castaldo and Quick talked to 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:01.240 her for many hours that day statement, as Bill Quick 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:06.320 wrote it down, made zero mention of a murder. At 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.320 the end of it, Castaldo told her to keep her 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:13.920 nose clean. Spoiler alert, she didn't. The very next day, 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:17.639 Denise lost her shit. She was driving with some friends 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:19.520 when she saw a girl she didn't. 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.119 Like opposite, she had a history with me. 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.600 That girl named Elena was driving the car in front 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.320 of her on the road her a report Elena made 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:35.160 to police. Denise chased Elena through several towns and then 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:39.080 battle ran the rear end of her car. Elena told 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.960 the cops that Denise got out of her car and 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:47.160 bashed in her window. Denise denied this, but well, here's 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.280 Breston asking about her history with ball bats. 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:54.479 You had gotten into some trouble before that by driving 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:58.760 around having you or people in your car smashing mailboxes 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:00.159 with the baseball back correct. 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:00.560 When he does that? 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:00.959 So what? 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:08.240 Denise was promptly arrested for ramming Elena's car and hit 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.760 with four charges for it. One of those charges was 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:17.080 a felony. She could have gotten seven years for that. Yet, somehow, 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.960 the day after she rammed the girl's car, Denise was 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.480 stopped yet again in her car. This time the cops 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:28.720 got her for erratic operation of her vehicle. She failed 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.760 to feel sobriety test was arrested on the spot for DUI. 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.720 That night, in the lockup, Denise made a big commotion. 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.560 I was in there in a paper suit and I 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:45.639 was screaming at whoever is at the desk. I know 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:50.760 something you don't know, and I said about I guess 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.199 it was around two in the morning. I said, I 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:56.320 want to speak to officer or investigator gestal though right now. 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.240 So after you got arrested you one of the things 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:02.560 you said was is get Castaldo here because I have 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:03.840 more information to give him. 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:04.119 Correct. 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:07.000 Yes, I was trying to say, let me out of 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:08.600 here because I know about a murder. 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:11.000 I knew the So Castaldo got out of bed and 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:13.960 met with her in lock up. But according to both 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:17.520 of them, they didn't talk about a murder. Denise says 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:19.080 he was only there a few minutes. 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.480 Three minutes, are you kidding me? Three minutes is not 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:24.600 enough time to talk about a murder. 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:29.359 Castaldo agrees they spoke that night, but not about Josette's murder. 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.600 He says he woke up late at night to serve 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:34.480 a restraining order from Elena. 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:36.720 To do that, I went in the back. It was 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:38.840 seconds I went in the back. She was dead and 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:41.240 the rescue me remember something from way back. The best 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:41.919 of my knowledge. 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:42.400 I went there. 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:44.439 She was giving the papers, and I was out of there. 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:46.400 I did not have a conversation. 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:51.000 Okay, there's no tape of that encounter or scribble notes, 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:53.920 so no way to know what they did discuss. 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:58.800 By the way, Denise Rose never asked you for any favors, correct, 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:01.840 and you never offered her any favors. 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:02.160 Correct. 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:06.439 But here's what we do now. Several hours after they 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.080 met lock up, Denise's bill was raised. She was allowed 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:13.280 to go home in a day or two after that. 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:16.800 Castalda says he was puttering around Carmel when he had 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.320 an epiphany this. I do remember. 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.680 We were driving down on Fair Street and I said 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:25.320 to myself, we have to call the Niese falls back. 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:26.720 I remember we were. 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.720 Driving down Fair Street and they just said I need 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:31.720 to speak to her again. I just felt I needed 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:33.480 to talk to her again. I thought she may have 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:34.320 more information. 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:37.840 The truth is. He and Quick spoke to her many 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:41.840 times after that, and a couple of weeks later, according 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:44.080 to Denise, she finally just. 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:48.080 Sort of cracked myself anymore, okay, and I figured I 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:50.439 didn't tell him the whole truth, so I better go 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:53.439 there as soon as possible and tell them before I 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.600 explode inside. I can't live with this, and the family 0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:00.480 needs to know that. Josette's family needs to know it's 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:01.320 not fair to them. 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:03.120 Okay, I can't deal. 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:05.240 Does I have to get this off my chest. 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:11.520 And so three weeks after she first talked to the cops, 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:15.760 Denise met with Costaldo and Quick again. Castaldo says he 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:16.920 got things started. 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:22.280 I said, Denise, I know what happened. I said, I 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:25.520 know what happened. To just set right. Denise had Right 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:27.320 after I said that, she turns around. 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:28.440 She banged. 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:30.719 She says, they raped, they tied the gag, and they 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:31.720 dumped her in the woods. 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:36.040 Quick wrote out her statement that day. It said that 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:40.159 Denise witnessed the rape and murder of Joseph Right. But 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:43.680 what was omitted from that statement was something Costaldo said 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:46.400 moments before she agreed to sign it. 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:48.959 They said, you can get twenty five years to light 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:50.440 a feel if you're a part of this crime. 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:55.080 And so lickety split, and he signed that statement and 0:22:55.720 --> 0:23:15.680 puff all of her charges went away with Denise and Hand. 0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:19.280 The cops chased the other teens dom named. They hauled 0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:23.080 in Andy Kreevak again, but this time they threatened and 0:23:23.119 --> 0:23:26.600 coerced him for hours. Then tricked him into signing a 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:32.639 false confession, a confession accusing Anthony of Joseph's murder, and 0:23:32.760 --> 0:23:36.520 finally they arrested Anthony. To Pippo, by then there was 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:39.720 no need to coerce or trick him. They had statements 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:42.960 from four of his friends. Now, if all the cops 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:46.200 had done was coerce these kids, there's a real chance 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:49.560 that none of this comes to light. Cops in America 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:54.080 coerced confessions all the time, and I would know. I've 0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:58.040 reported dozens of such cases over the years. But in 0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:00.840 this case, Costaldo and Quick would just get getting started 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:05.119 because remember, they had no forensics to bring to court, 0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:07.720 so the heat was really on them to make a 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:11.080 murder charge stick. So they've bent or broke the law 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:15.240 in a dozen different ways. Here's a major. For instance, 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:19.880 it's standard procedure for cops to record interviews in cases 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:24.560 involving serious crimes. Even back in the nineties, Putnam County 0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:28.760 had tape recorders to use without witnesses knowledge. But for 0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:32.760 these cops, we had audio tapes, so we didn't use them. 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:36.679 It was just the way I did things. Preston, Anthony's 0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:38.640 lawyer pounced on that point. 0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:42.199