WEBVTT - Unlocking Southeast Asia’s Clean Energy Potential 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:03.280 This is Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switched On, 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:07.440 the podcast brought to you by BNF. South of China, 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:11.160 east of India north of Australia is the vast region 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:15.400 referred to as Southeast Asia, comprised of eleven countries where 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:19.520 an abundance of natural resources and manufacturing capacity can be found. 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.440 It's important to supply chains around the world. However, recently 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:26.960 tariffs on goods destined for the United States, including clean 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.159 energy equipment, have been impacted, and several countries in the 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:34.040 region are reacting. Closer to home. Within Southeast Asia, a 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.879 transformation is taking place with high electric vehicle adoption and 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:42.360 supportive clean energy policies. To tell us more about Southeast Asia, 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:45.720 I'm joined by Chantanujaiswaal, who heads b and EF's India 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:50.400 and Southeast Asia research, alongside analyst Felix Kosse. They draw 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:53.920 from their recent research notes titled US Climate Fund Withdrawal 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:58.520 in Perils, Indonesia's Transition, and Southeast Asia in short Energy 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.440 Storage net zero Push, which b any F clients can 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:04.600 find at BNF go on the Boomberg terminal or on 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:07.360 BNF dot Com. All right, let's get to talking about 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:21.320 Southeast Asia. Chantanu, thank you very much for joining today. Hey, 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.240 thanks for me and Felix. Great having you on the 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:24.800 show as well. 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:25.920 Thanks for inviting me. 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.039 So we're going to have a conversation today about Southeast 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.920 Asia as a region. But of course every region is 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:36.360 comprised of individual countries and subregions that have their own 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.120 fascinating story to tell, and we at BNF are always 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.720 trying to find opportunities as the world is changing, and 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.520 certainly when we think about a lot of the industries 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.280 covered at BNF, we're thinking about global trade, we're thinking 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:52.240 about manufacturing, supply chains and everything actually across the value 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:54.919 chain for the energy transition, and there are a number 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.880 of countries here that are either changing the way regulations 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:03.000 work and creating for an opportunities for investment, or maybe 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:07.400 particularly blessed with different natural resources which are really critical 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:11.160 for the energy transition. So let's get into what each 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:12.680 of these countries. We're not going to have time for 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.320 all of them, but what some of the countries in 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.560 Southeast Asia really have to offer for the future of 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:23.239 the transition. So let's start with definitions. There are eleven 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:27.440 countries broadly considered as Southeast Asia. Can we go through 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.320 and just make sure everyone is in agreement that we're 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.240 talking about the same set of countries? What are they? 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.760 Thanks Sana, and thanks for starting off with that very 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.680 important question. And I say that because when I started 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:42.919 looking at Southeast Asia, when I started covering Southeast Asia, 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:46.120 it was very difficult for me to understand their region 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:50.600 because before I started working in the region, I always 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:54.120 thought of it as one coherent block and really didn't 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.000 understand the local nuances. But if you look at Southeast Asia, 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.480 there are eleven countries in the region. The popular of 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.880 this entire region is about seven hundred million, and if 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:06.440 you just look at the breadth of the region, it 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.079 is as big as Europe. It's a massive region. But 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:14.240 we at BNF we try to focus mostly on six 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:19.519 countries in the region, and they are Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam, 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.760 Singapore and Thailand. If you look at all of these 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:26.160 six countries, then I tried a lot, but there is 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:30.120 no one way to categorize these countries into different buckets. 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.160 What usually needs to be done is to apply different 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:37.960 lenses and then see these countries from the lens of language, geography, 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:42.600 natural resources, economic output, politics, etc. All of these countries, 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.800 they do have some common attributes, but they also compete 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.440 with themselves. The region is actually laden with natural resources, 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.720 but it's spread out across vatest countries. There countries which 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.000 are rich in oil and gas deposits. There are countries 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:58.560 which are rich in coal deposits. Then there are countries 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:02.840 which have different renewers energy sources distributed amongst them while 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.600 they are between the tropics, and solar is definitely something 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.400 we just common to all the countries. But then there 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:12.800 is wind resources which are in very small pockets in 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:14.839 Vietnam or Philippines. 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.240 So I mean, what I'm hearing from you is there 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:19.360 are sort of two conversations that we're going to have 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:22.440 which have to do first of all, with how countries 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.320 are investing in their own domestic energy supply and in 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:30.920 many respects adopting best available technologies and really thinking about 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.760 a really interesting grid that might be much more diverse 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.120 than other parts of the world. On the other side, 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:41.000 there are the natural resources that exist and you know, 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.000 as I referenced at the very beginning of the show, 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:46.120 things that we need for other parts of the energy 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.599 transition and will ultimately be exported to places all over 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:52.000 the world. Can you talk about some of the natural 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.640 resources that are so critical that are found in this 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:55.520 part of the world. 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.040 So the region is actually quite blessed with natural resources. 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:05.120 It includes all oil, gas, coal, copper, gold, nickel, aluminum, titanium, 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.760 you just name it. Starting with the Militia for example, 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:12.640 it is one of the biggest producers of natural gas. 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:17.560 We have countries which are also producing goal in big quantities, 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:21.000 such as Indonesia. It is also the country that houses 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:24.360 forty percent of the world's liquor reserves, and in addition 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.040 to that, it also has significant quantities of rock, copper, 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.919 and box site, whereas Vietnam and Myanmar, they possess a 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.200 big chunk of the world's rare earth materials. 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:35.360 So we did a show last year where we were 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:39.240 talking about how the United States had raised tariffs on 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:43.560 solar imports, and there are a number of countries in 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.440 Southeast Asia that were really involved in the solar manufacturing 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:49.880 and parts of the supply chain. So what I want 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:54.440 to understand is beyond what's happened most recently regarding increases 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:56.800 in tariffs for various countries all over the world, How 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.440 have those that were part of twenty twenty three in 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.120 the first half twenty twenty four. How have those tariffs 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:06.640 impacted solar in that region? What markets are they looking at? 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.760 Last year, the US Department of Commerce, they introduced some 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:15.000 preliminary determinations for anti dumping and counterweilling duties. 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:15.240 In the region. 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.400 If you look at the total imports of solar cells 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.280 and modules in two e twenty three and to eight 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.240 twenty four, then about eighty percent of all of these 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:27.960 were exported from four countries in Southeast Asia Cambodia, Thaighland, 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.840 Vietnam and Malaysia. And the tariffs which were introduced they 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.520 ranged between fifteen percent to about sixty percent, and they 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.080 have had quite a bit of an impact over here. 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:42.000 So some Chinese manufacturers that we know of in these 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.359 four countries, they have cut down their production and open 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.520 facilities in Indonesia and Lawers which do not have a 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.320 tariff right now. In a way, what manufacturers are doing, 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:52.760 if they are trying to dodge tariffs from one country 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:55.680 and moving out to other, it's a game of waka mohle. 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.000 I think that they are trying to play over here. 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.360 What we also see I think is that battery makers 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.680 DA might also want to follow what Soudar manufacturers are 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.120 doing and try to touch their talents and move their 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.280 manufactually location to countries which are currently except from it. 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.040 Okay, So bringing us up to speed with what's happening 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.720 then right now, there has been a lot of discussion 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:19.080 regarding tariffs and it's changing almost daily at the moment. 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.960 But when it comes to the US, with cuts in 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:26.680 US funding overseas and with raising tariffs for various countries, 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.880 how much of an impact has this had on some 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.240 of the countries in Southeast Asia? 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.440 So far, we think the Trauma administration has not targeted 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.840 any particular southist Asian countries specifically, but as you frightly 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:40.960 pointed out, there's a huge element of uncertainty here going on. 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.360 We do know that President Trump quite dislikes thread deficits 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:46.400 with the United States, and if we look at the 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.720 top twenty countries with whom the US has a thread deficit, 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.680 there are actually five southast Asian countries on the top 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:55.880 twenty list, with Vietnam in particular sitting on number four, 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.640 with the deficit of about one hundred billion dollars as 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.560 of twenty twenty three. Generally, southis Asian governments are cautious 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.400 now and adopting a with n C approach now with 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.480 regards to the cuts in overseas funding. The most tangible 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:11.160 impact for South East Asia so far is definitely the 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.560 US departure from jet P Indonesia and Vietnam. Jet P 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.840 or CHESS Energy Transition Partnership is a program that were 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:21.560 meant to mobilize roughly twenty one and fifteen billion the 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:25.280 dollars for Indonesia and Vietnam, respectively, to accelerate the energy 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:29.400 transition in those countries. Now, developed countries commit roughly half 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:32.600 of the money in the form of grants, concessional loans, 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:36.520 commercial loans, and development banking guarantees, while the rest are 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.120 supposed to come from private financing. So we think the 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.720 impact of the US living jet P would be fed 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:45.520 relatively more strongly in Indonesia. That's because before it left, 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:47.959 the US was actually a co leader of jet B 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.960 Indonesia alongside Japan. In fact, it was the biggest single 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.920 country funder, contributing about a fifth of the program's eleven 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.640 billion public funding plot and furthermore, on top of that, 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.320 another fifth of JETP Indonesia's pub financing comes from the 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:05.240 countries Energy Transition Mechanism or ETM, which is a pool 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:08.719 of public and private funds meant to finance early retirement 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:12.559 of coal plants in emerging economies. The ETM is capitalized 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.439 by the WORD Bank, Asian Development Bank, and the Climate 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:18.480 Investment Funds, all of which the US is a major 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.760 contributor to. So if the US ends up cutting funding 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.200 to these institutions, then jet B Indonesia's funding may diminish. 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:29.520 Further Still, for Vietnam, roughly thirteen percent of Jetpea's public 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:32.120 funding was supposed to come from the US. The good 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.080 news here is we have seen new climate and REGI 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:38.560 related investment plans coming from countries like Japan and the 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.840 UK recently to Vietnam. Vietnam's government is pushing renewables development 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.280 quite strongly, as indicated by the latest Power Development Plan, 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:50.400 which contains plenty of win solar and battery storage. Now, 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:52.480 one thing I'd like to note here is that after 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.400 the US announced their departure from JETP, there have been 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:59.120 assurances coming from other countries like Japan, the EU and 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:03.280 European country that the JETP programs would continue However, at 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.520 the same time, we also know that Europe would need 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:09.040 to channel hundreds of billions of dollars into defense spending 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.320 in the near future. So it remains to be seen 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:13.520 whether they will be able to fill the hole that 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.400 the US has left in terms of climate financing well. 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.000 And have these assurances come in the form of actual 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:22.079 financing as of yet or have they mostly been statements. 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.680 Mostly they've been statements. There have been some plan funding, 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:29.320 So Japan, for example, have committed twenty billion dollars for Vietnam, 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.640 and the Development financing arm of the UK government has 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.240 said they will infest about two point eight billion to 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.520 countries in Southeast Asia, not just Indonesia and Vietnam. 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.040 So Southeast Asia is full of a lot of countries 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:44.760 that have very different but important natural resources that are 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.720 part of the energy transition as well as manufacturing capacity. 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:49.120 So what I want to do is kind of deal 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:51.839 rapid fire through a couple of these countries and talk 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.440 about the things that have really stood out to you 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.199 and your research over the past year and kind of 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.120 what has been the most interesting thing. Let's start and 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.800 the most populous country in the region, which is Indonesia, 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.440 which is also the fourth most populous country in the world. 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.960 What stood out to you most about where they are 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:14.400 in terms of opportunities for investors and for really where 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.680 they are in the energy transition as a manufacturer of 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:19.079 really critical equipment. 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.320 So I think in Indonesia, I think that's most exciting 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.400 is that Indonesia is finally becoming quite good at not 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.360 just mining and extracting its resources, but also processing them 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:32.280 at adding value that it can capture instead of just 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.160 exporting row minerals to other countries, which is what tends 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:38.120 to happen in the past. Since the past approximately I 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:41.280 think five to seven years or so, Indonesia has aggressively 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.440 been pursuing this policy called mineral downstreaming, and what it 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:48.000 means is basically, Indonesia wants the row minerals that are 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.480 mined in its territory to be refined, process and then 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.839 made into a final product also within Indonesia, and then 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.920 those final products can get exported so that Indonesia gets 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.600 more value economic value from the products. One good example 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.480 for this is Indoniesia is no longer just mining its 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.960 fast nickel wealth, but now it's building refining plants. It's 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:11.120 starting to build a strong battery and ev supply chain 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:13.880 within the country, and we have seen many investors coming 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:17.520 from China, South Korea. They are building battery plants here, 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.560 electric vehicle plants here. And what Indoniesia has been planning 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:23.040 for a few years is finally starting to turn into 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.200 reality that it is able to produce electric vehicles and 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:29.160 batteries using local materials. We didn't region. 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:31.440 Okay, so let's now go to Vietnam, which is a 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:35.160 country that is installing a lot of renewable energy capacity domestically. 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.320 Why is that happening and what is the most interesting 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.040 thing happening in Vietnam at the moment. 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.120 The most interesting thing happening in Vietnam right now is 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:47.280 the policy push towards having more corporate cream power purchases. 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.480 Just has been a big manufacturing hub for major companies, 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.559 but has lacked the incentives that some of the other 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.040 countries can provide. But it is blessed with plenty of 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:59.040 human resources and it is one of the leaders in 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:04.040 Southeast Asia for having policies which encourage investments from private 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:08.280 sector participants into renewable energy. In fact, looking at Vietnam now, 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.800 all major countries are also starting to come up with 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:14.240 their own direct power purchaser remian policies, which will encourage 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.359 more renewables to be built out just for corporate purchases. 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:21.880 So speaking of leaders PENAF does an assessment of renewable 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.200 energy investment across developing countries all over the world and 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:29.120 number two has been the Philippines this last year. Why 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.800 is the Philippines such an exciting place for investment at 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:32.160 the moment? 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:36.200 Philippino is one of the most exciting places in Southeast 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.160 Asia because it has the most liberalized power market in 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.960 the country. While there have been some restrictions in the past, 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.840 the country is trying to overcome some of those bottlenecks 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.040 and have more private sector participation. We have seen a 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.200 lot of investments and batteries. In fact, Philippines is the 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:55.040 only country in the Southeast Asia region where some meaningful 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:58.559 amount of batteries are being deployed on the grid, all 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:02.280 because of its liberal power market, which enables batteries to 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:04.959 play a role in the an sile services market. There 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.920 are big companies, big powerhouse chiant companies that are in 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:12.800 the region which are also developing projects not only in 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.960 the country, but now are expanding outwards as well. 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:20.320 So geographically limited but certainly ambitious when it comes to 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.840 emissions targets. Is Singapore, can you talk us through what 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.760 their emissions targets are and what their path is to 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.560 actually reaching them. Is really a place to set the 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:31.920 example for other parts of the world on how to 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:33.800 go after really ambitious targets. 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.760 So Singapore is one of the smallest countries in the region, 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.360 but it has massive power requirements. It is one of 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.400 the developed countries in the region which has the ability 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:46.680 to pay for expensive power as well. Currently, it produces 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.600 ninety four percent of its electricity from gas fed power 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.680 plants and very little of it comes from deniber energy. 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.600 But the Singapore Energy Market Authority wants to change that. 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.400 It is trying four different strategies to decognize the country. 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.040 First of all, it wants to ramp up solar deployment 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:06.240 across the country, especially rooftop solar projects, but there are 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:10.600 limitations because of the overall physical land that Singapore has. 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.480 But in the long term, the country wants to increase 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:18.120 newer energy imports from various neighboring countries. Currently, Singapore imports 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:22.080 power from Malaysia, but it's in very small megawatt scale capacities, 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:26.000 but we are going to see kigawatt scale capacities come 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.240 online very soon, especially in neighboring Indonesia, where three point 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:33.000 five gigawatsoft projects could be powered up in the near future. 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.080 So what's really interesting about this is that Singapore's plans 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.840 for meeting their net zero targets is actually working with 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.320 other Southeast Asian countries as a block in order to 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.120 make sure that power production is clean and it's being 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.600 piped from the right places where that might be happening. 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.520 So their physical limitations actually aren't limitations at all if 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.960 you see them as a member of Southeast Asia. 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.320 I think I think the idea would be that the 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:59.000 new power demand that is created in the country that 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.800 could be met by renewables or cleaner sources of energy 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.640 from these neighboring countries, because it also has a target 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.080 for NED zero by twenty fifty, so they need to 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:08.560 do something. 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.480 So while we started the show by saying all of 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.200 these countries are so different and they have different policies 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.120 and different natural resources, and so the dynamics so we're 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:18.760 going to talk about are different, I think we've seen 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:21.520 that is certainly the case as we have gone country 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.200 by country, I'm going to now ask you to bring 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.760 your thoughts back to Southeast Asia as a region. So 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.280 when we think about assion as a group of countries, 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:38.200 so the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, so this is Indonesia, Vietnam, Laos, Brunei, Thailand, 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:42.120 Me and mar the Philippines, Cambodia, Singapore and Malaysia. There 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:46.640 are discussions at the moment about interconnectors and having a 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:50.280 grid that would actually create connections between these countries. Where 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:53.280 does that currently stand and how might we see a 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.160 power network that actually does see this region as something 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:58.000 that is cohesive. 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:03.000 So the idea of having interconnected grid in Southeast Asia 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.240 or ic and region is not new. And the critics, 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.640 if you talk to them right now, they'd argue that 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.879 the countries in Southeast Asia, they have aspired to build 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:15.200 a regional power since the nineteen nineties, but the progress 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.440 has been very slow for most of the time since then. 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:22.080 It was a good idea even then to have interconnected grid, 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:26.280 but perhaps because of energy security concerns, many countries, including Singapore, 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.600 considered it was best to generate power within the country. 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:33.240 But recently we have seen a much stronger momentum because 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:37.199 renewable energy has become much cheaper and countries realized that 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:41.320 deploying more clean power can help them attract more foreign investments, 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:46.000 especially in sectors like data centers, industry, and mining. And 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.680 Singapore is in the heart of this discussion right now 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.439 because it's a small country with very few resources. It 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:57.440 imports almost everything, and so why not electricity as well. 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:01.840 Building high capacity grid connections between Singapore and its neighbors 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:05.080 would be a very important step in realizing in ACA 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.520 and white power grid and this would boost network stability 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.240 and reliability in the region as well as it will 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.679 help intermittent renewals grow in the coming decades as demand 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:18.320 for renewbrielogy increases not only in Singapore but across the 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:19.160 region as well. 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:22.359 So this is a dynamic region that is looking at 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.439 tariffs but actually finding ways to ensure that the manufacturing 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.840 equipment that they're making is still very much a part 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.520 of the energy transition. I'm sure there's a lot to watch, 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:36.160 and as we see global supply chains maintain this level 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:39.040 of dynamism, I'm sure Southeast Asia will stay front and center. 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.479 Thank you for sharing your thoughts. On your research and 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.119 for taking us around the region and telling us some 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.040 of the most interesting things happening. Shantanu Felix, thank you 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:48.399 so much for joining the show today. 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:49.960 Well, thanks Jenna, it was great to be on the 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:50.520 show as well. 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:52.200 Thank you, Thanks Lena, and this was fun. 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:04.040 Today's episode of Switched On was produced by Cam Gray 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.919 with production assistance from Kamala Shelling. Bloomberg NEIF is a 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.080 service provided by Bloomberg Finance LP and its affiliates. 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