1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: Hi. I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson. 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling Railvalry. No, 4 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: no sibling raval You don't do that with your mouthing vely. 5 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: That's good. Hi, y'all. Okay, how's your how's your week? 6 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: It's been a great week. Here's the here's the problem. 7 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: I got a new e bike and I was cruising. 8 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: I was like eight hundred feet up in the mountains, 9 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: loving my life, trying to get that I knew timing 10 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: to get down to do some podcasting to be with you. 11 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:03,319 Speaker 1: The battery died, and so now I'm forced to sort 12 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: of get down and this mountain without my battery. I 13 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,199 Speaker 1: was on sunset. Cars were honking at me. I really 14 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: was going down Mandivo Canyon trying to figure it out. 15 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: I've got Alice and our producer who's basically yelling at 16 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: you on the street. Yeah, I'm confused because I had 17 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: to go up into the mountains. I was up in 18 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: the mountains to get to get back to where I 19 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: wanted to go to was more mileage and more uphill 20 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: and I said, I can't do it. The bike weighs 21 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: fifty pounds a battery operated bike. So now I had 22 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: to come down. Oh no, So that's that's my day. 23 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: And people were honking at you on sunset, Yeah, I was. 24 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: I was scared for my light. Oh my god, Sunset. 25 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know why people bike on sunset? 26 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: Why were you? Why were you biking? Because there's a 27 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: part of Sunset where there is no sidewalky thing and 28 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: it was scary. Ship my pants a little bit. It 29 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: was really don't do that again ever, I know. Anyway, Well, 30 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: I'm sorry to hear that. I'm sorry to hear that. 31 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: I love I love biking those I love It's so liberating, 32 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: it's just so I love being on a bike. It's 33 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: the best. So, Ollie, this was our first only child, 34 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: which is kind of crazy. It's kind of crazy. I 35 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: think the amount of shows that we've done that this 36 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: is the first first child. It's interesting. Although her particular story, 37 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: it's Mina Harris. She is Kamala Harris's niece and and 38 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people obviously throughout the campaign 39 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: for the Biden Harris campaign got to know the family 40 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: a very interesting dynamic because her mother had Mina very 41 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: young and so they were all really raised together. So 42 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: it was a little different than like a typical only 43 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: child scenario because her mother had her at what seventeen 44 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: and then went through like Stanford, Yeah, you know, college education. 45 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: Grandma was Grandma was raising. I mean, it's pretty amina 46 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: while mom was Stanford and becoming just amazing and just 47 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: an accomplished woman. A very female household with incredible, strong, 48 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 1: highly educated women. I love when she talked about how 49 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: at the table, around the table when they were eating, 50 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: that they never treated her like a kid, like they 51 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: always engaged her even when she was younger in the 52 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: debate with a real voice, you know, and she talked 53 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: about how that really informs who she is and what 54 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: she became. And I love that. I sort of, I mean, 55 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: we don't do that. We don't do a lot of 56 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: debating in our family. But I do believe in talking 57 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: to your kids like humans and not and not sort 58 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: of being baby ish. We should do debates with the 59 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: kids like we should have like actual debates. Yeah, we 60 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,119 Speaker 1: should have family dinner, but it has to be around there, 61 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: like subject matter that they care about, like video games 62 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: like is it good or is it bad? Right? And 63 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: one on one side they can pick it out of 64 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: a hat and we'll give them like you like, we 65 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: can do Saturday dinner. Right, We're doing a Sunday night 66 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: dinner or whatever. I feel like if you gave that's 67 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: a really fun idea. It is debate night, debate night, 68 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: and like there's a couple of different things, you know, 69 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: like one set like the first Saturday of every month, right, 70 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: and they get over dressed, and then the family gets 71 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: to choose who won the Yeah, and then then we 72 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: do a town hall after that. All we just get 73 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: all of our friends and like just have a dinner 74 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: old thing and you know, and they've got a I 75 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: love a town hall and then we're asking them questions. 76 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's so fun. All right, Well, Mina 77 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: Harris are Our episode with Mina Harris has just inspired 78 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: for us. But really, I I really, I really loved 79 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: I really loved this episode because it also shows again 80 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: another immigrant, beautiful immigrant story, and how that inform not 81 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: only you know, her aunt and her mom, but herself. 82 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: All right, please everybody enjoy Mina Harris. I'm so excited 83 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: about this. I'm obsessed with talking about siblings and being 84 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: an only child. So why that is? You know, you're 85 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: our first only child. I've never had an only child. 86 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: I have so many questions about this. I'm so honored. 87 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: I'm also like nervous, I have to really, you know, 88 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: but I'm so excited. I'm like, this is one of 89 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: my top favorite things to talk about, is being only child, 90 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: in part because there's so many instances in which my 91 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: asshole friends are like, you're such an only child, Like, oh, 92 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 1: I'm not, And here's why. Why why are you so 93 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: have a lot of only child besties? Oh? Really? Okay, 94 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: So then you're yeah, I'm very well versed, But why 95 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,119 Speaker 1: do you love talking about it? Like? Why does it? Okay? 96 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: I think part of it is a couple of things. 97 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: So one, you know, growing up as an only child 98 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: is a is a unique thing. I suppose I actually 99 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: I should look into the like statistics around that. I'm 100 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: sure there's many more only children now, like given the 101 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: economy and other things like that than there there may 102 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: have been in the eighties when I was born, but 103 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: so so there's that unique experience on its own. But 104 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: then I also grew up in a very unique way 105 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: in a very unique family, which was I was like 106 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: a super only child. I had a very young teenage mom. 107 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: She had me when she was seventeen, and it was me, 108 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: my mom, my grandma, and my aunt. That was my 109 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: tiny little family for my you know, all of my 110 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: most formative years. And I and my aunt at that 111 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: time didn't have any children, and it didn't for many, 112 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: many many years. My grandmother, you know, was was on 113 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: her own at that point. So I had like not 114 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: only this super female centric, like amazing you know, lens 115 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: into you know, just a woman run world. Like the 116 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: concept of men being in charge was completely foreign to 117 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: me until I entered the real world. All of her 118 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: feels the same way. Yah, even though he's brothers. Yeah, 119 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: because you you grew up with all women too. We 120 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: just Mom and I are just you know, you just married. 121 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: She's not wrong. I mean when mom was we were divorced, 122 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: I mean I was with you and Mom, I mean 123 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: I was. It was very female driven household with whole women. Yeah. Yeah, 124 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: and so you know, as you know, apparently like that's 125 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: pretty unique. And then I had just a lot of 126 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: focus on me because I was the only kid and 127 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: the only grandkid. And the only and you know, we 128 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: have a pretty small and at that time, you know, 129 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: especially a very small family. My grandmother, you know, immigrated 130 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 1: here and she created her own second family and community, 131 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: but my core sort of nuclear family was just the 132 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: three of us, and you know, the all of the 133 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: attention was on me, and you know, probably good ways 134 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: and bad that I'm now on fact as an adult 135 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: sometimes how much older is your aunt from your mom? Okay, 136 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: so that's okay. So that's the third part of this, 137 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: which is on top of all of that, I had 138 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: this unique insight into their sibling relationship, which was all 139 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: very unique. Right, you have these two girls growing up 140 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 1: and again very strong, female driven led household. They are 141 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: two and a half years apart, so almost three they 142 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: I think there's actually who I think is it the 143 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: Wijiski sisters. There's an article about them. I think. I'm 144 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: sure you've seen all this because you all keep up 145 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: with stuff. But there's a whole nother conversation around, just 146 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: like families of super you know, super successful siblings and 147 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: somehow like they're all successful and again this could this 148 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: could be a whole other conversation, but I'm so fascinated 149 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: by You know, we're all different. People take different directions. 150 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: Some families, you know, I think like they would just 151 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: skis there. They're super successful. Sometimes you know, somebody takes 152 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: their time, or you have people whole concept of the 153 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: black sheep. Like, there's lots of different I mean, this 154 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: is your hitting on everything we love talking about on 155 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: the podcast, because you know, family dynamics are well, first 156 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: of all, they inform the rest of your life and 157 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: the way you choose to harry whatever your family of 158 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: origin has sort of built around you as like your foundation. 159 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: However you harry that becomes everything that like catapults you 160 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: into the world in a positive way or does the 161 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: opposite can be incredibly destructive and right or in between, 162 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: and it's just like confusing and you figure it out. 163 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,199 Speaker 1: But so I now so based on that, and this 164 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: is sort of like recent things I've thought about. One, 165 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: I love that there's this parallel between me and my 166 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: grandmother of like raising our two girls. Nick really wants 167 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: three kids, and first of all, no fucking way. Second 168 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: of all, like I like having two daughters. It's so 169 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: fun and like, you know, the parallels there. But also, 170 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: and I've actually talked to other new Ish moms that 171 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: were only children, and we're like it's like a little experiment, 172 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: like I get to like study like how siblings interact 173 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: and you know, not to sound also like a tiger mom, 174 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: but I'm like, how do I make you best friends? 175 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: Like how do I you know, again, like we only 176 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: had I should stay out of it, and I do 177 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: that too. I'm like, y'all need to figure it out. 178 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 1: If you're arguing, like you know, you can go be 179 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: each other. They're so close in age too, so you're 180 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: gonna get a lot of that, you know exactly, and 181 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: they're so different, They're so different in terms of personality. 182 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: So anyway, it's all to say that, like I already 183 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: have you know, interesting perspectives and whatever. Experience is like 184 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: kind of a super only child, as I've called it, 185 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: And then I've had I think, you know, because of 186 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: that an interest in sibling relationships because I never had it, 187 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: and now that I have my own two kids, I'm 188 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 1: even more sort of fascinated by it all because I 189 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: just it's so foreign. Did you ever want a sibling? 190 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: I mean, were you ever as a kid? Were you 191 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: ever like, man, I wish I had someone else? Not 192 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: really I mean now I think about that, like I 193 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: you know, on the one hand, there's like nothing, you know, 194 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: most a lot that I would not change, you know, 195 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: and but it now seeing my kids together especially, I'm like, oh, 196 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: that would have been fun or you know, just the 197 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: idea we had a feeling of like big family gatherings 198 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: because my grandmother had such an incredible vibrant community and 199 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 1: second family. But you know, sometimes I'm like, I'll hear 200 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: them talking to each other about me, and I'm like, hey, 201 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: I can hear you. What do you guys talking to 202 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: me about? Like just being able to like talk about 203 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: your parents with your sibling or work working through you know, 204 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: it's one parent dynamics with a friend. What's really interesting? 205 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: You know, I think like when I look at Ryder, 206 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 1: my son's eighteen, his sister's three. Oh wow, yeah, your 207 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 1: mom was seventeen. That relationship is almost like a sibling 208 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: relationship and can be you know, if not. You know, 209 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: it sounds like your mom was incredibly strong and had 210 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: a large capacity to understand probably how to be a 211 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: good parent even though she was so young. Right, do 212 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: you have a real mother daughter relationship or is there 213 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: a friendship that has built because of that age. You know, 214 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: it's interesting one like this would be probably fun to 215 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: talk about in therapy. I also hope my mom writes 216 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: a book one day. It would be fun to hear 217 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: what she would say. So, without speaking for her, I 218 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: would say, your response about being like a real mother 219 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: figure and being strict and being clear about boundaries. My 220 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: interpretation was that that was very much her approach to 221 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: being a parent, and what I think is super interesting. 222 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: And you know, again like I mean, we've been also busy. 223 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: It would be fun to like sit down and talk 224 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: to my mom about this at some point beyond some 225 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: of the sort of like you know, surface level conversations 226 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 1: we've had. And I'm sure for her to your point, 227 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: like you know, she was seventeen, I'm sure there's a 228 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: lot looking back on that that she herself has maybe 229 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: not even unpacked yet, right, But one of the things 230 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: that I'm curious about is, like, was she as a 231 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: seventeen year old mom like Okay, I need to do this, 232 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: and I'm curious about you, Like, was that your perspective 233 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: of like, Okay, I'm young and I need to be 234 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: clear that I'm the So there's no confusion in a 235 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: way that you maybe did it more than like an 236 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: older mom would do because you were so you know, 237 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 1: worried or whatever. It had this sort of like the 238 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,439 Speaker 1: idea of how you needed to be as a young mom. 239 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: I'm curious about that, But it's funny because what you 240 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: said is exactly how to described her as a you 241 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: know mom to me as a young child. Was she 242 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: was strict, she was you know, I I definitely had 243 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: stricter rules than most of my peers. You know, there's 244 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: this saying in particular like the black community, like I'm 245 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: not want of your little friends. I'm not your buddy, 246 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: I'm your mother, right, Like she was clear about that. 247 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: At the same time, I think what again was interesting 248 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: not only for our mother daughter relationship, but also just 249 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: in context of my family and that you know, sort 250 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: of unique household I lived in is that I had 251 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: a front row seat to like every stage of their lives, 252 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: which is extraordinary to think back on, and that I 253 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: sit with a lot sort of every time I have 254 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: a big life moment. You know, when I went to 255 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: law school, I just I was like just every day 256 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: my mind was blown, Like, how in the world did 257 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: she do this with a four year old, you know, 258 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: when I had my own kids again, like figuring out 259 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: how to do the pancakes and everything else. It's like, 260 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: how in the world did she do all of that? 261 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: But also just in terms of this sort of inspiration 262 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: and what I sort of had a furrow seat too, 263 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: was you know, her college graduation, her law school graduation 264 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: and same for my aunt, right, and and realizing how 265 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: special that is that you get to like see your parents' 266 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: life or your family's stages of life through every critical 267 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: moment is something that, of course most people don't get 268 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: and is very pretty cool. And how come your mom 269 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: did did she not just not want to have other kids? 270 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: Or was she just sort of like want and done? 271 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: Thank you? Yeah? You know, okay, I'll let her. I 272 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: don't want to speak for her. I'll say that if 273 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: I were her and I had a kid at seventeen 274 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: and I did all the shit that she did and 275 00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: put it in no way, I'm done. I'm done. So 276 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: And you know, that's another thing that I'm kind of 277 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: interested in and talked about, which is that my parents now, 278 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: in contrast, it's like they're empty nesters and they're kind 279 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: of this like young youngish are they still together. No, no, 280 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: this is my mom remarried. Okay, yeah, sorry, yeah, where 281 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: is your father? I don't know, I don't know. Do 282 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: you know? So? But you don't know. We have so 283 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: much in commage, generational thing tears, the lovely aspects of 284 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: all that. But yeah, you know my parents, she married 285 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: my I call him my dad. I called my parents, 286 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: you know, together, my parents. They got married when I 287 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: was gosh, fourteen, I was just about to go to 288 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: high school. Oh my god, there's so much fun stuff 289 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: to think about back that, Like I was such an asshole. 290 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: He's the most amazing person ever, like you know, speaking 291 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: of strong female domin like, you know, everybody's like, how 292 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: do you guys deal with that family? It's like, yeah, 293 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: takes takes a special kind of person, you know. Anyway, 294 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: he's amazing. I was like a little shit for part 295 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: of that time, in part because like it was just 296 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: the two, it was just me and my mom for 297 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: so long. You know, they got married when I was 298 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: just going into high school. And fast forward, it's just 299 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: interesting to me where you know, they're they've both been lawyers, 300 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: and you know, especially when they were like these young 301 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 1: uh you know, on the forty under forty lists and 302 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: things like that. For you know, especially when we were 303 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: here in the Bay Area, there are so many young 304 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: players of color that looked up to them and were like, 305 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: I want I want to be you, I want you 306 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: to mentor me. And I used to like joke that 307 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: the big secret is having a kid when you're seventeen 308 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: part of it, right, Like, obviously they're both very smart 309 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: and accomplishment of done extraordinary things. But you know, on 310 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: the one hand, I think it was obviously very hard, 311 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: and my mom sacrificed a lot. You know, there was 312 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: a lot that you know, shouldn't go unnoticed in terms 313 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: of what she what she did, and the life that 314 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 1: she created for us and how challenging that was. At 315 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: the same time, it like she did all the work 316 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: up front in terms of like wind kids stuff, so 317 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: that when she was like in her thirties, I was 318 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: off to college. Right, So she and my dad like 319 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: had this amazing kind of like gess like right starting 320 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: and their like their career is in their thirties, right. Jealous, 321 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 1: It's incredible I got to wait in another eighteen years. Yeah, exactly, 322 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: say I'm like I'm out on my eighteen year plan 323 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: of like moving back to New York. So Oliver, Yeah, 324 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: you know what I loved about my Future App experience. 325 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: We're talking about future right now. We are both investors 326 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: in this company. We're very connectedness. We love the team 327 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,479 Speaker 1: over there. They're amazing. Here's my favorite thing that they do. 328 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,719 Speaker 1: I travel a lot. I was just in Miami, I 329 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: was just in Paris. Okay. I feel very lucky to 330 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: be able to travel and do these things, but it 331 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: does kind of take you off of your usually off 332 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: your routine. Future Fitness my coach can actually find out 333 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: where I'm staying, what kind of facilities I have nearby. 334 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: They can literally create my workout while I'm traveling. Basically, 335 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: you go into the Future Fitness app, you fill out 336 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff, You give information how you want 337 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: to work out, what you want to accomplish your goals, 338 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: and then they're going to give you an option for trainers. 339 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: You find the one you like. This trainer will hit 340 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: you up FaceTime, email, text, and now you have a 341 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: trainer in the palm of your hand that is going 342 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: to hold you accountable exactly. These are also very curated. 343 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: Trainers are very very skilled people who have been very vetted. 344 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: So yeah, and they are there are no slouches. I mean, 345 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: all these trainers are. Who's your trainer, Matt? Do you 346 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: like him? Yeah? He actually coached in the summer Olympics. 347 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: He coach a female fencer who made it to the Olympics. 348 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: Oh cool. Yeah. So these are trainers who are in 349 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: D one program Division one sports programs, Olympians. They've trained 350 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: Olympians and they are the real deal and they're there 351 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: to help you, to motivate you to kick your ass basically, 352 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: and to get you into shape. So if you're ready 353 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: to invest in your long term health and wellness, you 354 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: can get started with your future coach right now at 355 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: fifty percent off your first three months at trifuture dot 356 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: com slash sibling again, that's trifuture dot com slash sibling. 357 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,719 Speaker 1: So your mom put herself through Stanford Law. Yes, how 358 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: old was she when she went into to Stanford She 359 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: would have been like eighteen or nine, So you were 360 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: like a year old when she went to college to study. 361 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: I was, yes, college, I was a year She had 362 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: me her senior like second semester, gosh, first semester after it, 363 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: so she got pregnant senior year I was born in 364 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: October that I think would have been her first semester 365 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: at college. I'm just gonna like assume that your grandma 366 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: had a huge, huge you absolutely, yeah. My grandmother was 367 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: a second mother to me and a very special important person. 368 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: Actually there's a lot of interesting stuff just around parenting 369 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: as well looking, and I wish she were here today 370 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 1: for me to you know, talk about this stuff with 371 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: her too. But you know, she was also a pretty 372 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: young mom, right, she was in her twenties, and she 373 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: was an immigrant. She was creating a new life for 374 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: them in a community and you know, her own family here. 375 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: And I sometimes joked that like I was her little experiment, 376 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: like she like she did the two she got, you know, 377 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: made it through, raised these incredible daughters, you know, under 378 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: somewhat you know, challenging circumstances. And then I came along 379 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: and she's like, oh now I can, like really, you 380 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: know again, make all the pancakes and explain it for 381 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: people who don't know what some of the challenging circumstances 382 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: were for Grandma. Oh gosh, well, you know, she came 383 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: here by herself, which as a eighteen year old you 384 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: know student coming from India to get her PhD, which 385 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: obviously you know, there's privilege there and being able to 386 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: get an education and access to that went to UC Berkeley. 387 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: But you know, she was a little, tiny woman of 388 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: color in a male dominated industry and the sciences, and 389 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: you know, I think along with that, for anyone in 390 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: that position comes along lots of different challenges including sexism 391 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: and racism and all the you know other much more 392 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: you know, bigger issues that we were dealing with as 393 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: a country during the civil rights movement at that time. 394 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: And she's so extraordinary for so many different reasons, but 395 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: one in particular related to that period of her life 396 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: is that, you know, she had a choice. She she 397 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: could have decided to to sort of a similate and 398 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: not you know, see herself as an immigrant in that fight, 399 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 1: and largely because of the family we come from in India, 400 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 1: which very much live lived by the same values of 401 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: equity and justice and you know, all the things that 402 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: I think are so core tos sort of who we 403 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: are and who I am. She said, you know, this 404 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: is this is my fight too, and you know, jumped 405 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: right in. That's where she met my grandfather. That's very 406 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: much obviously the you know, community and world in which 407 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: my mom and aunt were raised, and that informed a 408 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: lot of you know again my upbringing and values that 409 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: they brought into our family. But you know, again along 410 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: with that came many challenges of I mean, depending on 411 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: how you want to look at it, right, she she 412 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: and my grandfather divorced fairly early in Uh. I guess 413 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: my mom was like too, I think, and my aunt 414 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: was a little bit older. But you know, she was 415 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: a student and trying to you know, make a life, 416 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: you know, modest life for her, for her and her 417 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: two girls at a really critical moment you know, in 418 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: our society. And you know, again didn't take the on 419 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: the one hand, just by virtue of that experience. Nothing 420 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: about that was easy. But she also could have probably 421 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: taken a bit of an easier path and chose not 422 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: to because you know, she obviously was so committed to 423 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: racial equity and and you know, being a part of 424 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: the Civil Wars. Moom was this in San Francisco, Uh, Berkeley? Yeah, she, Uh, 425 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: and I I grew up really between Oakland and Berkeley, 426 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: and uh yeah, just to have you know, that informed 427 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: so much of I'm sure again, I I don't know Uh, 428 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,239 Speaker 1: for sure, you know, you have to ask my mom 429 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: and aunt, but obviously informed her her parenting and decisions 430 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: as a parent. And it's just I can make my 431 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: own guesses. But it's sort of like fun to think 432 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: about how she then came into her identity as a grandmother, right, 433 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: also a young grandma, like she was in her forties, right, Yeah, 434 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: which is wild too because like people have you know, 435 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm almost forty, Like people have kids in 436 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: their forties. And she was a grandma and you know, 437 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: I think had a whole you know, was able to 438 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 1: build on her experience as a mom and think about 439 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: you know, oh, it sounds like you have a very 440 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: unique only child experience because a lot of times, you know, 441 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: at least I mean, this is sort of the stereotype 442 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: that I know from my friends, is that their whole 443 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: life revolved around them. Yeah, it's all about you, it's 444 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 1: all about you. It's about you. But you had a 445 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: mom who needed it to be about her at times 446 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: because she needed to go build her life and her career, 447 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: and you were with grandma, so you kind of had 448 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: a I would say, probably a very different type of you. 449 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 1: Probably didn't feel smothered. That's right. Yeah, I think it's 450 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: interesting now I look back on how much in terms 451 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,959 Speaker 1: of my own path, how much frankly was sort of 452 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: like my own pressure on myself rather than the exactly 453 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: I think to their credit, they were so I mean, 454 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: yes I was. I felt so loved and adored and 455 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't sort of like in a tiger mom way, right, 456 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: I mean there were expectations, yes, of of excellence, academic excellence. 457 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: You know, the importance of education was emphasized. You know, 458 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 1: we came from a you know, humble beginnings, but education 459 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: was was was key and you know, having purpose, right, 460 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: that was the overarching you know message, right, like, uh, 461 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: come into the world with purpose and a feeling of 462 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,239 Speaker 1: responsibility to do good for your community whatever that looks like. 463 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: But I was encouraged to you know, do art camp 464 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: to like never was it you know, suggested like, oh, 465 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: you have to become a lawyer like your mom and 466 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: not By the way, my grandmother was a scientist, and 467 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: there's obviously a lot of she was a research researcher, right, yeah, exactly, 468 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,239 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of and I'm interested in this 469 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: now as well, just you know, kind of stereotypes around 470 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: immigrant parents, you know, obviously pressuring their kids because they 471 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 1: want them to have a good life. But it's like, 472 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: you know, what was that the SNL episode where it's 473 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: like you have a choice of becoming a doctor or 474 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: a doctor, there's nothing, there's like no other right option. 475 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: But to my grandmother's credit, she she never pushed that 476 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: on them. Right, they clearly felt freedom. I think a 477 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: lot of was are informed by the movement too, right, 478 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: Like they were surrounded by activists and public you know, 479 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: leaders and public officials and lawyers like those were the heroes. 480 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: But anyway, yeah, it's it's it was never to your point, 481 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: like my mom was trying to just like make it work. 482 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: Same for my grandmother. Did you find that you were 483 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: spending a lot of time alone with yourself? Yes, so 484 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: I think that one of the characteristics or you know 485 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: that came out of that is that I'm very independent 486 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: I and these are people often talk about that with 487 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: only well, I don't know, maybe for only children. The 488 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: stereotype is like, oh, you're okay being alone or spending 489 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: time alone or knowing how to like play by yourself. 490 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: That for sure is me. But there's also an aspect 491 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 1: of it that I think contributed to independence and both 492 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: like I enjoy solitude for sure. Uh, but also you know, 493 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: you got to figure it out. I mean I think 494 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: that's that was the message not only that my family 495 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: was living through. It was like things are hard and 496 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: fucking figure it out, right, and that was the message 497 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: to be too. How did how did that? How did 498 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: that sort of upbringing manifest in your relationships? You know, 499 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: even with your husband? You know, how does that work 500 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 1: as far as sort of who he and who he 501 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: knows you to be? You know, other things about yourself 502 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: where you're like, Okay, I gotta work on this because 503 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: yes I am I am Yeah, I am an only 504 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: child and this is the way I know how to 505 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: do things. But you know, did that Yeah? You know 506 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: there's an interesting thing like going around TikTok and Twitter, 507 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: which is like fierce independence and like thinking that you 508 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: don't need people as a trauma response. I know there's 509 00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: also a joke to like every fucking thing is a 510 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: trauma respon We've all Yeah, but I learned about fierce 511 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: independence and therapy, yeah, right, Like these are fun therapy 512 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: conversations and I I for sure relate to that I think, 513 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: and so why asked about my relationship? I you know, 514 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: And again I don't know that these are things I'm 515 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: probably unpacked and therapy fun to talk about here, but 516 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: I don't know how much of that relates to like 517 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: having a single mom or having an absent dad, right, 518 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: which is like, I don't need you, like I I 519 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: you know my mom did it? You know? We're good. 520 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: I'm good. I don't I don't need anybody. Sounds like 521 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: someone I know. I'm guessing that that's probably one of 522 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: the biggest fights Danny and I ever got into. Is 523 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: I was like, He's like, you don't need me. I'm like, 524 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: I don't, literally no, I don't need you. I love you, 525 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: I amuse you, but I don't need you. Right, yeah, 526 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: you did? No? I mean, I very much identify with that. 527 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: Do you know the Five Languages of Love? That book? 528 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: I think I've heard of it, but I don't know 529 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: the like what the five languages are. It's physical physical touch, Yeah, 530 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: acts of service, acts of service, words about, words of affirmation, gets, 531 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:25,719 Speaker 1: and then one more quality time. And it's really interesting 532 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: because you we all do fall into some sort of 533 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: a category. You know what I mean that I have 534 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: quality time followed by words off, I'm physical touch for sure. 535 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: You can tell me all the great things. I'm like, 536 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: I don't care, just like rub my back, rub me, 537 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: touch me, love me physically. You know. It's funny. Nick 538 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: and I have this like inside joking because I again 539 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: sorry to keep talking about TikTok, I'm so annoying, But 540 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: there was like there's some funny thing that's like, my 541 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: love language is physical touch, tap my asss be this 542 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: thing where I'm like my love languages and so he's like, oh, 543 00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: gotta get your love language and gotta get your love 544 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: like Nick. So he's a Capricorn, and I very much 545 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: think that he fits the profile of the capricorn. His 546 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: is access service for and probably actum im like I 547 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: do not want anyone who has that. Oh sorry no, 548 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: but hit his are that? Okay? His our access service 549 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: to the to the significant other? Right he wants you expression? Yes, sorry, 550 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: not that he's if he likes to do things, but 551 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: is that what you need? I you know, I like 552 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: all of it. I would say, I seriously do think 553 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: physical touch is one for me. You know, it's funny. 554 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: I think that for him, the return like he words 555 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: of affirmation for sure is one for him. And it's 556 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: something to this conversation that I think, like in our 557 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: relationship and in my in my leadership style and work, 558 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: like I've tried to get better about positive reinforcement and 559 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: affirmation in part. And again this is like me riffing here. 560 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: I'm not a whatever therapist, but I almost wonder with 561 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: my family, like there were such expressions of constant love 562 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: through physical touch, through language, through access service, all of it, 563 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: like you talked about, is that yes, very much like 564 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: you know you are so loved in every way. But 565 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: you know, I feel like maybe because there was just 566 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: this baseline expectation of like excellence, like exceeding excellence, I 567 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: do wonder if if it's just expected, right, Like you 568 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: don't get a cookie forgetting an a you don't you 569 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: don't get I never had any sort of you know, 570 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: you get money for getting good grades or you get rewarded. 571 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: It's like, no, that's what's expected. And if you don't 572 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: do that, then you know you you whatever, you're failing. Yeah, right, 573 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: like you just pass, I don't care, just get credit 574 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: and then we'll go out, we'll go sing. It's healthy, 575 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: Like I think there's a lot of it is I think, 576 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: you know there there is a sophistication to that that 577 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: I really appreciate, like and maybe that's because I didn't 578 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: have that, Like they cared about us being our excellence being, 579 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: but they knew who we were in the world, how 580 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: we were in the world, like how hard we worked 581 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: at so that you know that people good people. And 582 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: again that of course I was emphasized. For me, it 583 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: was more you know again, it was just all an expectation. 584 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: You're ethical, you're honest, you're you work hard, and I 585 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: think this idea of like, you know again, it's not 586 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: like we said, you know, to an extreme. I love you. 587 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: I love you so much. I'm so proud of you. 588 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: Like my aunt's think since I was a baby, this 589 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: is like I guess maybe embarrassing to even say an 590 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: adult was like, who's my favorite girl? Who's my favorite girl? 591 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: And again I was like the only you know against 592 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: the who else is there? Yeah? Yeah right, but like 593 00:33:54,600 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: it's no else obviously ever wanted. But were you were 594 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: you rebellious at all? Did you do bad shit? And 595 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? You did? I did okay, good, good, 596 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,479 Speaker 1: So you got to have that part of your wa Wait, 597 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: I have a quest, well, and we'll get to that 598 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: in a second. I want, did you have imaginary friends? No? 599 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 1: But my my youngest daughter dot the older one didn't 600 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,839 Speaker 1: and the younger one did. And I'm so fascinated by it. 601 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I was actually to ask you something, which 602 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: is like I as a parent now and thinking about 603 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 1: this from such a different lens. In some of it's 604 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: my own creative journey. Some of it I think is 605 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: just frankly like where we are as a society and 606 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: asking good important questions about like the evils of capitalism 607 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,359 Speaker 1: and over you know, uh, emphasizing productivity and you know 608 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: that being the basis far worth like all this stuff, 609 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: and in particular on the creative piece, I see that 610 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: my younger daughter is like a performer. There's no question 611 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: in my mind. Like she. I can give you lots 612 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: of examples. She is a performer. She loves to make 613 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: people laugh, she loves to sing and dance. She talks 614 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: about like I'm on stage and you know, you give 615 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 1: her a microphone, Oh my god. And I was like 616 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: that also. However, I pursued a very traditional path in 617 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: part because I think the role models I had were lawyers, 618 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: and so I went to law school, and I was 619 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: committed to, you know, seeing change in the world and 620 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: seeing through my purpose through the law. Right I now 621 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: am a thankfully former lawyer and recovering lawyer, and I'm 622 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: sort of new ish to my creative to you know, 623 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: this new chapter of being a true creative, which I 624 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 1: think is who I truly am. But I look back 625 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: and I wonder about, like kids that grow up in 626 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 1: Hollywood or in families like that, or that are just 627 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: immersed in creativity, how that informs a different, you know, 628 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: different outcomes. And I'm now thinking about that with the 629 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: younger one and you know, the older one. You know, 630 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: you know what, you should get a book. Sir Ken 631 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 1: Robinson he passed away. He passed away a couple of 632 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: years ago. Unfortunately, really really lovely man. You can watch 633 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: this Ted talk too. You should watch his whole thing 634 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: is about how the institution, our educational system has been 635 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: kind of formed around something that really no longer exists, 636 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: like that that that we should be we should actually 637 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: be incorporating more of the creative brain into how well, 638 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: there's no emphasis on it, there's no structure for this 639 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 1: part of our brain, which is which is really the 640 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: way the world is moving, and how we can build 641 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: an educational system more around the creative brain. I want 642 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: to get into all like the incredible things that you're doing. Okay, 643 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: but I have this question has been on my mind. 644 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: Where are you with sort of male energy, meaning like 645 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: in your family? You when you were a kid, you 646 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: grew up with all of these beautiful strong women. Okay, daughter, yes, 647 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: but you know where are you at with sort of 648 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 1: that male figure in your life growing up? Did you 649 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 1: need it? Did you crave it? Did you care about it? 650 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: Did it affect you in any way? Do you think 651 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:07,360 Speaker 1: it's important to have someone like that in your life 652 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 1: to raise you or to sort of give you that 653 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: male perspective? Ooh, that's a big question. Let me try 654 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: to figure out how to answer this. So even though 655 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: you did have your dad, your stepdad dad, he was 656 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: there at fourteen, but just generally, I guess as a 657 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: starting point, no, I do not think that there. I 658 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:33,240 Speaker 1: do not have a like gendered perspective on raising kids. 659 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: And I do not think that you know, you need 660 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,359 Speaker 1: to like get that from a man that is through 661 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: a dad figure. Right. However, I do think that we 662 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:53,280 Speaker 1: still live in a patriarchal society and girls and women 663 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: have to navigate that and have to deal with sexism 664 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: and racism and men. Sorry to take this turn, but 665 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: I mean this is how I view it men. You know, again, 666 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: there's lots of I'm going to like what I think 667 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: about this as like problem solving and how to equip 668 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: like what is the purpose of parenting? And right, like 669 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: you just ask like do you need it? And I 670 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: think what girls and women meet and boys like what 671 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,760 Speaker 1: we need is the tools and you know, the problem 672 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:30,839 Speaker 1: solving language whatever to navigate a patriarchal society whatever that means, right, 673 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: And you don't you don't need to get that through 674 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: a parent. I think we need to be doing it 675 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: in schools. I think we need to be doing it 676 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: through kids books like like the ones that I'm writing, 677 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: you know. But I think it's more about like the 678 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: structural you know, systems and you know, harms that we 679 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 1: all have to navigate that are dictated by a you know, 680 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 1: white male dominated world, which is still the world we 681 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 1: live in, and that we all need the tools to 682 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: dismantle that and unpack that and you know, know, how 683 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: to navigate when or harmed by it. How deep misogyny 684 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: can be at times is so unrecognized. Still, I kind 685 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 1: of come from a place because I'm not dissimilar in 686 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: terms of like I grew up with a very powerful 687 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: mother who was like, you know, men will let you down, Okay, 688 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: do what you need to do. Go out in the world, 689 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: make your own way. Don't ever rely on a man 690 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: for money. Do it yourself. In my mind it was like, 691 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 1: I am independent, I am fiercely independent. I can do 692 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: it myself. I don't need any man. I don't need them. Look, 693 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: I just wanted to know if dads were important. But 694 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: I think it is. Oh, I keep going. I think 695 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 1: the role, the important role is just to me, honestly, 696 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 1: is being a really good parent. Yeah right, No, I know, 697 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,280 Speaker 1: but I think like that that question is always framed 698 00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: in the context of family and romantic probably cis gender 699 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: heterosexual romantic relationships, I imagine, because that is how again, 700 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 1: we as a society have built power around that. Right, 701 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 1: women had to get married and be with men, so 702 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: that because that men, right, Yeah, like that was just 703 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: but and so it's interesting I think I happen to 704 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: be a cis gender heterosexual woman and in that context, 705 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: you know, there's a whole thing around, like you know, 706 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,360 Speaker 1: to your question, like you know, do I have daddy issue? 707 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 1: Like the whole concepts like daddy issues are fiercely independent, 708 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 1: like maybe probably, I don't know, like you know, however 709 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,879 Speaker 1: you diagnose that. But I now, as a parent, think 710 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: about it in a sense of, you know, if I 711 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: am to frame it as a romantic thing, like oh, 712 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: do you need a good dad to like date men? 713 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 1: That's kind of like house is normally to be in 714 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: good relationship. It's sort of house normally framed. Right. Again, 715 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: it's a very one lens of that I'm now I 716 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: think about it like I don't know if my daughters 717 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,319 Speaker 1: are going to date men. First of all, I don't 718 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: know if they're going to identify as female when they're 719 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,439 Speaker 1: you know, at whatever point in their life. Like there's 720 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 1: just so to me. I think about it again, more 721 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: so in the context of society and systems, which are 722 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: a good dad maybe that yes, that's probably helpful, or yes, 723 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: good parent to your point, also, some of the most 724 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: important white men in my life have been bosses, people 725 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 1: that I've encountered in the workplace. Right, so I do 726 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 1: look at it more less about like family and certainly 727 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,799 Speaker 1: less about like romantic relationships on both ends. Right again, 728 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 1: the framing of like, oh, you know, having a good 729 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: dad makes you less likely to have bad relationships or whatever, 730 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 1: that all of that, whether it's in relationships or workplace, 731 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: it's navigating harmful men. Like That's what it goes back to, 732 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: how do you navigate it? How do you deal with it? 733 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: And I think to the point about it being hopefully 734 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,719 Speaker 1: more hopeful and aspirational, I think it is about just 735 00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 1: being a good parent and raising good kids. And that's 736 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 1: also why, for example, you know, with my and not 737 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: I'm not like shamously plugging my kids books, but they 738 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 1: center female characters. They center you know, female ambition. But 739 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: I really truly strongly believe it is just as important 740 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: for my daughters to read those books, to see themselves 741 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: in those books as it is for eighteen year old 742 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: writer to know that they exist and to believe in 743 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: female ambition. Right Like, And there is I've as i've 744 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,839 Speaker 1: you know, become a kids with author and have met 745 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: lots of different families and gotten so much incredible feedback 746 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: on my books. There is this thing about like if 747 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,319 Speaker 1: you're a guy like you who grows up in a 748 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: family full of women, you're like tend to be like 749 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: one of the good ones, so to speak, right, Like, 750 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,360 Speaker 1: and by the way, there's data behind this, like you 751 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: are less likely to grow up and harm women. Like 752 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 1: literally there's a direct connection between boys who are raised 753 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: as good people and good families and often you know, 754 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,760 Speaker 1: around women that are like less likely to sexual harass women. 755 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: Because oh, like it's not rocket science, right, It's just 756 00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 1: about respecting people. And so anyway I find all this 757 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 1: stuff obviously I'm not like, I'm not an expert. I 758 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: have a question because it's it's it's actually opposing in 759 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 1: Like this conversation is making me think about debate and 760 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 1: how when you grow up with siblings, you're there's constant debate, 761 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: Like you're constantly you're constantly being told that like you're 762 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: wrong and you're trying to express why you're they're wrong, 763 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 1: and you have different opinions, different ideas, you look at 764 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:33,800 Speaker 1: life differently, and because you're related and growing up together, 765 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,960 Speaker 1: you know you have to figure out that sort of 766 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,239 Speaker 1: conflict resolution or places where you do agree and you 767 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: not having that, Like where did you did you ever 768 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:48,279 Speaker 1: get any any sense of like, no, mean, it's never 769 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 1: been wrong. Yeah, you know what with all fucking lawyers, 770 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,920 Speaker 1: are you kidding? Like it was literally like you argue 771 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 1: for a living, like you debate for a living. So 772 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 1: you know, the whole joke is, you know, Thanksgiving dinner, 773 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,840 Speaker 1: how not only about it being so many women, but 774 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 1: it's like my mom was like an ACLU lawyer. My 775 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,160 Speaker 1: aunt at the time was like, you know, lawyer in 776 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 1: San Francisco, like my grandmother very you know, kind of 777 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,440 Speaker 1: radical activists. Like wow, I would love to listen to 778 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: that conversation. But also again back to parenting, like, because 779 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 1: I was an only child I was. I think this 780 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:29,240 Speaker 1: was both a parenting approach as well as again people 781 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: were just trying to make things work and get through 782 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,319 Speaker 1: the day I was. I was, I was treated like 783 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,279 Speaker 1: an adult in the sense that I was talked to 784 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,239 Speaker 1: like an adult. It was assumed that I knew what 785 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: somebody was saying to me, that didn't need to dumb 786 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: it down, that you weren't. You know, there was never 787 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 1: a kiddie table at those Thanksgiving dinners. You were welcome 788 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: at the adult table, and you were encouraged to engage 789 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 1: in conversation. You know, if you didn't have something to 790 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,920 Speaker 1: say to listen and learn, and if you did, if 791 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:55,959 Speaker 1: you wanted to hop into that debate, that you better 792 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 1: have a good argument to me. Or if you don't, 793 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,840 Speaker 1: better have you know, thinks skin to be willing to 794 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:07,560 Speaker 1: be challenged. Now, what are those tables political? Yes, always 795 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,279 Speaker 1: disagreeable moments? Or are you pretty much all on the 796 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,960 Speaker 1: same page? No way? Oh my god, Like again, just 797 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: by nature, like you know, and this is this is 798 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: a joke that I have with a lot of my 799 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,399 Speaker 1: lawyer friends. And if like you didn't, if you didn't 800 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: go to law school, it can be like yo, like 801 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,400 Speaker 1: you're really aggressive, Like it's not a debate. It's like, no, 802 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: my whole everything is a debate. What do you mean? 803 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,239 Speaker 1: Like this is just how I communicate. But it's like 804 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 1: we'll have, you know, guess over and it's like everybody's 805 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,399 Speaker 1: like yelling and debating. And I remember one moment where 806 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: my friends was like whoa oh it was one of 807 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:44,560 Speaker 1: my friends. It was Ella. We were this was who's Ella? 808 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:49,439 Speaker 1: Ella is Kanalla's stepdaughter. Oh okay, this was I can't 809 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,400 Speaker 1: remember when it was, but we were all it was 810 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:56,560 Speaker 1: like a very passionate, like excited conversation, and we were 811 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,040 Speaker 1: like debating something and arguing, and I remember her being like, 812 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 1: do you realize everyone's yelling? And I was like, girl, 813 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:03,839 Speaker 1: you've been here long enough to know how we all 814 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,680 Speaker 1: communicate it. Like nobody's yelling, We're like talking very passionately. 815 00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,160 Speaker 1: But yeah, like that was just you know, uh, that's 816 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: a that's a given. And so yeah, there was There's 817 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:21,200 Speaker 1: lots of passionate debate and argument, and again it's part 818 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,160 Speaker 1: of the to me growing up like that was the 819 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,719 Speaker 1: the vibranc scene of it. I think you asked the 820 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:28,680 Speaker 1: question about like having the focus on me, And on 821 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,120 Speaker 1: the one hand, sure I did, like in this little 822 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,719 Speaker 1: tiny family of me, my mom, and my aunt, but 823 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,320 Speaker 1: we had such a big, vibrant community. And again in 824 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 1: terms of the movement and what my grand the world 825 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,040 Speaker 1: that my grandmother was in in the new community and 826 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,279 Speaker 1: or second family she was creating, it was you know, 827 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:51,160 Speaker 1: so many again extraordinary brilliant change making, you know, courageous 828 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,279 Speaker 1: folks that were just doing the work. And that was 829 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,040 Speaker 1: what I was surrounded by at you know, over the holidays, 830 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:01,400 Speaker 1: at you know, during weekend family gatherings. It was all 831 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,879 Speaker 1: about that community, and so it's it's funny you mentioned 832 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,360 Speaker 1: that about being kind of quiet, which is reminds me 833 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,840 Speaker 1: of a conversation I had with a parent friend. They 834 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,960 Speaker 1: have three girls, and he was just telling me yesterday 835 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 1: that the youngest one that they literally call her baby 836 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,840 Speaker 1: is her nickname. He said that she's the loudest of 837 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 1: all of them, and his theory is like, she's trying 838 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,840 Speaker 1: to be heard because everybody else is so loud and 839 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,400 Speaker 1: she needs to be like, hey, I'm here right like, 840 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,160 Speaker 1: and I wonder if likewise again, I mean, there's so 841 00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:31,840 Speaker 1: many different What I was going to say back on 842 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,440 Speaker 1: the like dad question is that there's so many influences. 843 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,719 Speaker 1: On the one hand, there's so much that we can 844 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,800 Speaker 1: try to do as parents and equip our kids with whatever, 845 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,239 Speaker 1: you know, as you said, tools to be strong and 846 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,200 Speaker 1: tough whatever that means, you know, to teach them about 847 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,080 Speaker 1: curiosity and being kind, all those things that we are 848 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,239 Speaker 1: just trying to do to raise good people. You can't 849 00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:58,279 Speaker 1: there's so much you can't control. School. Well, it's also like, sure, yeah, 850 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,760 Speaker 1: of just biology, you know, you know, I mean, yeah, 851 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 1: the big secret are not big secret, but a lot 852 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,839 Speaker 1: of people don't know this. My mom, my aunt, and 853 00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:11,360 Speaker 1: my grandmother are all actually very creative and artistically talented. 854 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:16,359 Speaker 1: My grandmother was like a prodigy child singer. It won 855 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,440 Speaker 1: like a President's medal, and then became a scientist. That's 856 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,279 Speaker 1: what you do. But you dance and sing, too, right, 857 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,719 Speaker 1: I yeah, I And in part because my grandmother really 858 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,520 Speaker 1: encouraged me, and it's because of her that I danced 859 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,680 Speaker 1: my my whole life. I you know, they put me 860 00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,680 Speaker 1: in art camp every summer because that's what I wanted 861 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,080 Speaker 1: to do. You know, most kids went for like either 862 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,719 Speaker 1: the morning or the afternoon and only like two week 863 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,120 Speaker 1: session for the whole summer. I went morning and afternoon 864 00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,280 Speaker 1: for every session of the entire summer of our camp. 865 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,600 Speaker 1: Looking back, frankly, I should have been in theater. My 866 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:50,640 Speaker 1: my secret dream was to be on Broadway, but I 867 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,440 Speaker 1: had fucking stage fright, and so I always like backed 868 00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,120 Speaker 1: out of doing like stage stuff. But you know that 869 00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:01,280 Speaker 1: point about like I and I have other women in particular, 870 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,319 Speaker 1: my great grant gandmother was a classical dancer. I have 871 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:09,360 Speaker 1: aunts and uncles that were full time musicians. That's clearly 872 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,680 Speaker 1: in our family, right, and it's clearly in me, I 873 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,640 Speaker 1: see it my older daughter. I've been talking about a 874 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,640 Speaker 1: younger one being sort of this performer and not being clear. 875 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:21,480 Speaker 1: The older one is incredibly artistically talented, and it's just 876 00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,399 Speaker 1: fun to kind of see how that stuff comes out, 877 00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 1: even if, like you would not expect that because everybody's 878 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,239 Speaker 1: like a serious lawyer, right like they didn't. So we're 879 00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,000 Speaker 1: gonna have to wrap up here soon. But I want 880 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,160 Speaker 1: to get through a couple questions. One, does your husband 881 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,760 Speaker 1: have siblings? He does, He is the middle of three, 882 00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,400 Speaker 1: so I'm also obsessed with all I'm just generally obsessed 883 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,160 Speaker 1: with sibling dynamics right right if they do, like three 884 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,080 Speaker 1: more hour conversation, I know. I feel like that would 885 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,080 Speaker 1: happen if you're an only child. You would be like 886 00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,080 Speaker 1: this is and you get to, like you said, watch 887 00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 1: it in your own kids, which must be really really 888 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,600 Speaker 1: fun for you. I want to talk about your founding 889 00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,839 Speaker 1: phenomenal women woman, and then your children children's books, who 890 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:02,919 Speaker 1: did common and Maya's big idea what we talked about, 891 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:08,359 Speaker 1: and then Ambitious Girl, and just kind of explain where 892 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,200 Speaker 1: this came from, and then why you're no longer you know, 893 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,040 Speaker 1: doing law and practicing law and what this new creative 894 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 1: venture and are you going to start auditioning for acting gigs? Oh? 895 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 1: I feel it. I feel like that's common. I have 896 00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,160 Speaker 1: been trying to get out of and back away from 897 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,440 Speaker 1: being a lawyer the while I was applying to law 898 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:37,960 Speaker 1: school basically, and fun fact, my biggest like role model 899 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:42,000 Speaker 1: in life is a Hollywood person. She's her name is 900 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:47,279 Speaker 1: Christy Habeger. She's like an auntie to me. She was 901 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,879 Speaker 1: lost of classes with my mother and at Stanford, and 902 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,759 Speaker 1: she famously never took the bar exam and became this, 903 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,719 Speaker 1: you know, in my child's eye, like just incredible, you know. 904 00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:01,399 Speaker 1: And there was a time where I was like, oh, 905 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,560 Speaker 1: maybe I want to be an entertainment layer. It's like, no, girl, 906 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,400 Speaker 1: you shouldn't even go to law school. I figured it 907 00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,120 Speaker 1: out ultimately, but Christie. I wanted to be Christie. I 908 00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,239 Speaker 1: wanted to figure out, like how do I do what 909 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:15,440 Speaker 1: she's doing? But my the tool that I knew and 910 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,360 Speaker 1: that I was exposed to was the law, right And 911 00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:22,520 Speaker 1: so I went to law school and I mentioned Christie 912 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,480 Speaker 1: because I went in being like I'm not gonna even 913 00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,480 Speaker 1: take the bar, Like I'm not trying to do that. 914 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,719 Speaker 1: By the way, kids like if you go to law 915 00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:30,080 Speaker 1: school and you pay all that money, like just take 916 00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,480 Speaker 1: the fucking bar. And yeah, especially at the California Bar 917 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,800 Speaker 1: back then it was three days long. That could be 918 00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,200 Speaker 1: a whole other cart Like it just is just torture anyway. 919 00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,640 Speaker 1: So I but I also always had sort of creative 920 00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:46,240 Speaker 1: stuff that I was doing on the side. I always 921 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,320 Speaker 1: have like seven jobs. I was like making and selling 922 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,400 Speaker 1: earrings throughout college. I was it was very clear that 923 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,520 Speaker 1: I was for sure entrepreneurial. And I mentioned, you know, 924 00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,040 Speaker 1: spending all my stummers in art camp. I was always artistic. 925 00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,600 Speaker 1: I took art classes at Stanford, you know, when I could. Anyway, 926 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:03,560 Speaker 1: I think the thing that's fascinating for me is I 927 00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,920 Speaker 1: would have changed anything about it. A lot of what 928 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,000 Speaker 1: I learned in law school, my post law school, you know, career, 929 00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:14,800 Speaker 1: I think created a foundation both in knowledge and skill 930 00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,560 Speaker 1: and you know all the things that come along with that, 931 00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,920 Speaker 1: those experiences that really set me up for success to 932 00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,080 Speaker 1: do what I'm doing today. So on the one hand, 933 00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,160 Speaker 1: I do think about, like, damn it, I this is 934 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, this is clearly my space, Like what if 935 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,240 Speaker 1: what if I had figured this out ten or fifteen 936 00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,880 Speaker 1: years earlier, and on the one hand, it's kind of 937 00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,680 Speaker 1: interesting to think about. On the other, I think that 938 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,520 Speaker 1: I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing at that 939 00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,680 Speaker 1: the exact you know, time that I'm supposed to be 940 00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:41,799 Speaker 1: doing it. So all to say, you know, I took 941 00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:46,160 Speaker 1: probably too long to back away from the legal field. 942 00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,360 Speaker 1: I worked at A I was like corporate lawyer for 943 00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,440 Speaker 1: many years, cybersecurity data privacy lawyer, went back to the 944 00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,560 Speaker 1: tech industry. I was in tech after college and then 945 00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:58,160 Speaker 1: went back and then like slow, I was doing policy work, 946 00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,840 Speaker 1: so like not quite legal. I was the GC's office, 947 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,520 Speaker 1: but it was kind of legal ish, and then finally 948 00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,160 Speaker 1: made a pivot to doing brand work when I was 949 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,560 Speaker 1: at Uber, and that was both somewhat unexpected. I was 950 00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,520 Speaker 1: already doing Phenomenal at that point, and I had sworn 951 00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:15,640 Speaker 1: that I would like never go back to tech. I 952 00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:19,279 Speaker 1: got recruited based on our work with them through Phenomenal 953 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,239 Speaker 1: and really thought about, all right, this can be you know, 954 00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,319 Speaker 1: not again to sound sort of overly academic or trying 955 00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:28,120 Speaker 1: to you know, like rack up accolades, but I was like, 956 00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:33,000 Speaker 1: let me go to a really you know, respected place 957 00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,399 Speaker 1: where I can get you know, some credentials and experience, right, 958 00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,360 Speaker 1: and I had an incredible boss who recruited me that 959 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to work for blah blah blah. But that 960 00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,040 Speaker 1: was really what started to set me up for you know, 961 00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,440 Speaker 1: building a brand and starting to see through that vision. 962 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,320 Speaker 1: Even still it was someone unexpected, it was. It started 963 00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,360 Speaker 1: off as a very small idea coming out of the 964 00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,799 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen election. You know, this one T shirt that 965 00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,799 Speaker 1: we were using to raise money for women's organizations at 966 00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,360 Speaker 1: a time when you know a lot of people I 967 00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,520 Speaker 1: think were really just jolted into action. And you know, 968 00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:06,600 Speaker 1: if I'm being honest, I had some you know, somebody 969 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,160 Speaker 1: who was very political and was on the Obama campaign 970 00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,960 Speaker 1: and had been involved in politics my whole life, you know, 971 00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:13,920 Speaker 1: some feelings of regret and wondering if I could have 972 00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,840 Speaker 1: done a little more, I think, you know, so I 973 00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,759 Speaker 1: think that though the overarching point, like in terms of 974 00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:25,680 Speaker 1: law school to now, is I was still finding ways 975 00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:29,920 Speaker 1: to keep up the creative stuff in many different forms. 976 00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,920 Speaker 1: And what what what what's your hope for phenomenal? Like 977 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,640 Speaker 1: what you know, what's your focus? Yeah, while we are 978 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,600 Speaker 1: building a media company, many people have come to know us, 979 00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,680 Speaker 1: and some people still you know, think of us as 980 00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:47,480 Speaker 1: an apparel brand, but really we are a values driven 981 00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,520 Speaker 1: three sixty media company that centers women in particular women 982 00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,560 Speaker 1: of color and unrepresented communities more broadly. And you know, 983 00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,640 Speaker 1: I very much think about how I was raised, my 984 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,799 Speaker 1: you know experience with political organizing, which I often sort 985 00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,440 Speaker 1: of analogize to brand building if you think about it 986 00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,480 Speaker 1: being around about community, right, and in terms of this 987 00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,800 Speaker 1: idea being values driven and purpose driven, it's about putting 988 00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,360 Speaker 1: equity front and center and bringing an equity lens to 989 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:19,120 Speaker 1: everything that we do, bringing a diversity and inclusion lends 990 00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:20,880 Speaker 1: to every single thing that we do. And I'm just 991 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:24,560 Speaker 1: so proud to say that, I think, you know, unfortunately 992 00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:28,120 Speaker 1: that's still rare where you know, you're literally putting that 993 00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,520 Speaker 1: front and center and it's baked into the you know, 994 00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,360 Speaker 1: the DNA of every single thing that we do in 995 00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,680 Speaker 1: the way that we view the world. But that's that's 996 00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,240 Speaker 1: what it is, right, And we're building a media company 997 00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:41,000 Speaker 1: with lots of different you know, community pillars and content 998 00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:48,400 Speaker 1: pillars around that that mission and that commitment both. Yeah, 999 00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:52,719 Speaker 1: we have a couple of scripted and unscripted projects right 1000 00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,680 Speaker 1: now in development, you know, thinking about We just launched 1001 00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,520 Speaker 1: a book club and are working with incredible authors both 1002 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,080 Speaker 1: to draw attention to you know, their voices and works, 1003 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:10,080 Speaker 1: also you know, doing production and adaptation and and really 1004 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:12,919 Speaker 1: I think overall the point is that you know, we've 1005 00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:16,840 Speaker 1: built this really incredible consumer facing brand and people know 1006 00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,480 Speaker 1: what we stand for, right. They know that we bring 1007 00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,640 Speaker 1: that that equity lens in, that mission and commitment to 1008 00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,839 Speaker 1: everything that we do, and we're now applying it right 1009 00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,879 Speaker 1: to building a true three sixty media company. It sounds 1010 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:32,120 Speaker 1: like you finally found what you're passionate about, you know 1011 00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,720 Speaker 1: what I mean? Like the point is, like I think 1012 00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:37,560 Speaker 1: you over time, I mean, I think it's a perfect point, right, 1013 00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,919 Speaker 1: Like you're always in the right place as a human being. 1014 00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:42,359 Speaker 1: You're always in the right place. Yeah, you can look 1015 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,799 Speaker 1: back and say, oh what if but you were led 1016 00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,440 Speaker 1: to this and now you're now you're in the pocket 1017 00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,080 Speaker 1: and now you're in your sweet spot, and you wouldn't 1018 00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,200 Speaker 1: be here unless you went through all that all the 1019 00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:55,120 Speaker 1: other stuff, you know what I mean? Absolutely, Okay, one 1020 00:56:55,160 --> 00:57:00,000 Speaker 1: word to describe yourself at ten at ten, oh precocious 1021 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:06,920 Speaker 1: and now precious pus and like funny, I like to 1022 00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,879 Speaker 1: think I'm funny. What was the what was the most 1023 00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,719 Speaker 1: rebellious thing you did as a kid? Oh, you know, 1024 00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:15,799 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think I can share that on 1025 00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,360 Speaker 1: this podcast that you already you already asked me if 1026 00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,600 Speaker 1: I did. I told you I did. Noticed that I 1027 00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:25,120 Speaker 1: did not elaborate because I knew that you would not. 1028 00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:29,200 Speaker 1: You know, favorite book is a kid? Yeah, you know, 1029 00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,600 Speaker 1: that's always a hard one. I mean, I loved in 1030 00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:33,400 Speaker 1: part I talked about this in the context of my books, 1031 00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,080 Speaker 1: Like you know, we read so many of the classics 1032 00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:38,440 Speaker 1: like good Night Moon. I would probably say where the 1033 00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:42,880 Speaker 1: Wild Things are really sticks out, you know again just imagination, 1034 00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:47,440 Speaker 1: creativity and and sort of you know, I guess in 1035 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:51,640 Speaker 1: some ways independence. They just released to Jordan four called 1036 00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,640 Speaker 1: the Wow I'm a big sneaker guy, and uh yeah, 1037 00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:56,840 Speaker 1: I got it for my son. They're really really cool. 1038 00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,960 Speaker 1: So it's a Jordan four and it's the theme is 1039 00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,600 Speaker 1: where the wild Things are just going to go going 1040 00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:06,560 Speaker 1: to go to stock. Nick almost certainly knows about Nick 1041 00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,720 Speaker 1: is like a crazy sneaker head Jordan fanatics. I'm sure 1042 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,000 Speaker 1: he knows about that. But I'm gonna still tell him 1043 00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:16,320 Speaker 1: that I just got up first concert. Oh my god, 1044 00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,080 Speaker 1: I'm so proud of this. Uh, it's the best answer. 1045 00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:24,160 Speaker 1: In my opinion. My first concert was crap. It was 1046 00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:29,040 Speaker 1: either Chriss Cross in my aunt. My god, I have 1047 00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:30,480 Speaker 1: to I have to go back and look at the dates. 1048 00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:32,840 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that was the first one. And then 1049 00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,960 Speaker 1: my second one that's also great was Paula Abdul in 1050 00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:44,520 Speaker 1: my mom. Yeah, what are your first what about your 1051 00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:53,439 Speaker 1: first celebrity crush? Oh I can answer this in five seconds, Mace. Yes, yes, 1052 00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,040 Speaker 1: like I had, remember, like you get those I mean, 1053 00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:57,400 Speaker 1: I don't know if you do this, but like buy 1054 00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:59,600 Speaker 1: the magazines and then cut out and then like put 1055 00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:01,560 Speaker 1: the followup. Oh my goodness, I had like all these 1056 00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:08,560 Speaker 1: collages that a dollar sign. Yeah, he's not like a 1057 00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:15,080 Speaker 1: pastor a pastor Now I think, yeah, wow, that's kind 1058 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:16,880 Speaker 1: of graze. And then it kind of and then it 1059 00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:22,280 Speaker 1: like transferred over to then known as Puffy Yeah. And 1060 00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,200 Speaker 1: then and just to bring this all full circle, Christy 1061 00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,560 Speaker 1: who I mentioned earlier, who's like an auntie to me. 1062 00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:29,800 Speaker 1: She for a very a very long time was known 1063 00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:33,400 Speaker 1: as my puff daddy auntie because she introduced me. She 1064 00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:36,840 Speaker 1: was like the cool like Hollywood was like Hollywood friend 1065 00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:39,480 Speaker 1: and then in the later sorry you did not ask 1066 00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:43,160 Speaker 1: all these questions, but then later on it obviously was Drake. 1067 00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:48,000 Speaker 1: Now I'm kind of like, you're over. You're over Drake. Yeah, 1068 00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:53,240 Speaker 1: you're over Drake Best. This is always a question that 1069 00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,560 Speaker 1: I it's always annoying when people ask me this question, 1070 00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,240 Speaker 1: which is, you know, what was the best piece of 1071 00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:01,680 Speaker 1: how many times have you had that? Like, what's the 1072 01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:04,320 Speaker 1: best piece of advice your mother has ever given? I'm 1073 01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:07,600 Speaker 1: just to impress for the show that eighty times every time, 1074 01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:13,560 Speaker 1: answer every time, write down knowing that people ask this 1075 01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:16,440 Speaker 1: quite yeah, like but what was the best advice you 1076 01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:19,000 Speaker 1: ever received from your mother or your aunt, your grandmother. 1077 01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,360 Speaker 1: I think it was kind of a collective piece of 1078 01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:28,200 Speaker 1: advice that kind of bowls down to fuck the haters, right, 1079 01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:33,720 Speaker 1: and that you know your purpose, you know your path, 1080 01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:38,840 Speaker 1: stay focused on that, you know, live that out and 1081 01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:43,520 Speaker 1: and anything that you know. Then there will be naysayers. 1082 01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:47,680 Speaker 1: It will not be easy. Nothing comes easily, but you 1083 01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:50,760 Speaker 1: know it's all a distraction and you know what's in 1084 01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:52,800 Speaker 1: your heart, you know what you know you were put 1085 01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,880 Speaker 1: here to do, and go do that. And I think 1086 01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,400 Speaker 1: the key is like it's fuck the haters and also 1087 01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,720 Speaker 1: maybe a nicer way of putting that for more inspirational advice. 1088 01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:05,840 Speaker 1: It's just that, like nothing comes easily. You know, we 1089 01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:08,360 Speaker 1: started this talking about in part my grandmother, and you 1090 01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,040 Speaker 1: asked like, what were the challenges she experienced? And I 1091 01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:12,880 Speaker 1: think we've had a lot of great you know, discussion 1092 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,280 Speaker 1: around the patriarchy and society and families, and you know 1093 01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:19,040 Speaker 1: the world is not easy still for so many of us, 1094 01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,680 Speaker 1: and you know we and yet you know, we still 1095 01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,400 Speaker 1: try to pursue our hopes and dreams as best we can, 1096 01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,680 Speaker 1: and anything that gets in our way is exactly that, 1097 01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:29,800 Speaker 1: something in the way. It's a distraction. It's you know, 1098 01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:34,440 Speaker 1: never let anyone else define that purpose for you. You 1099 01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:38,200 Speaker 1: define that on your terms. I love that great way 1100 01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:42,880 Speaker 1: to end. Awesome gat to me, Thank you again. This 1101 01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:44,640 Speaker 1: was super fun. I could talk to you for hours. 1102 01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:51,040 Speaker 1: Sibling Revelry is executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson. 1103 01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:55,280 Speaker 1: Producer as Alison. President editor is Josh Wendish. Music by 1104 01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:58,960 Speaker 1: Mark Hudson aka Uncle Mike. If you want to show 1105 01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,840 Speaker 1: us some love, rate the show and leave us a review. 1106 01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:08,080 Speaker 1: This show is powered by Simplecast m