1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: You were standing in the halls of Sachell Castle. You 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:10,319 Speaker 1: approach a golden chalice, resplendent in an embossed spiral of 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: geologic time that winds round from rim to base. At 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: the merest touch, the chalice chimes and shivers, dragging you 5 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: back through two hundred years of history to the castle's 6 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: raising in the Transylvanian wilds of Hattick. You grasp the 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: golden chalice, and time sheds from your perspective. Let the 8 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: skin of a great serpent, spiraling out in every direction 9 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: as you descend through the depths of centuries millennia, through 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: eons of evolutionary change in geologic upheaval, till the chalice 11 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: slips from your trembling grip and leaves you in an 12 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: age of wonders. Pottig as you knew it is gone. 13 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: Now a paleo island rising up out of the Late 14 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: Cretaceous Sea, you glimpse movement and note the approach of 15 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: several sauropods. Only these are not the hulking giants you're 16 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: familiar with. They seem dwarf creatures the size of ponies. 17 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: You could ride one if only you dared to approach 18 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: its alien flesh. But before you can muster the courage, 19 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: the creatures scatter from the clearing predatory therapods to flee 20 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: back into the forests. As a great shadow descends from 21 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: the sky, a terrasaur to rival the dragon Bowler of myth. 22 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: It lands before you. It towers like a siege engine, 23 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: but you've already thrown yourself to the ground. You're fumbling 24 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: for the golden chalice so that it might take you home, 25 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: or take you further back anywhere to escape the jaws 26 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: of hats Agotor extend them A welcome to Stuff to 27 00:01:52,280 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: go your Mind A production of iHeart Radios has to works. Hey, 28 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: you welcome to Stuff to blow your mind. My name 29 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And if you 30 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: can probably guess from that fun little cold open that 31 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: we have prepared for you there, we are going to 32 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: be traveling back in time in this episode via paleontology, 33 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: back to prehistoric Transylvania. That is so exciting, Robert, I 34 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: can tell you are just itching to like write a 35 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: novel about this, this ancient paleo island. Yeah, I was 36 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: really inspired by this, and this is one of those 37 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: situations where I was inspired by reading a dinosaur book 38 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: to my son. Uh. There's a book titled Atlas of 39 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: Dinosaur Adventures by Emily Hawkins and illustrated by Lucy Leatherland. 40 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,839 Speaker 1: And it has these wonderful, like you know, big two 41 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: page spreads that show a different part of the world 42 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: and an idea of what the prehistarth life might have 43 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: looked like. And they had a spread they cover every continent, 44 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: and they had a spread for Haydeck showing like what 45 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: what prehistoric Transylvania, what prehistoric Romania would have might have 46 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: consisted of? And uh, I have to admit, despite having 47 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: you know, covered sauropods on the show, and certainly we've 48 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: talked about gigantic terra saurs quite recently, I wasn't really 49 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: familiar with this corner of the prehistoric world. It clearly 50 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: it's set off a little explosion in your mind. I 51 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: can sense the energy coming off of you on the 52 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: subjective Hottigg, and I wanted to say that you're opening 53 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: reminded me of two different things. The poem Directive by 54 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: Robert Frost, which is about going back in time and 55 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: it also involves a chalice. Yeah. Yeah, it talks about 56 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: like I forgot about it or if or if I 57 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: just uh, you know, came up with that idea, you know, 58 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: via some connection to things that were inspired by what 59 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: he wrote. You should look it up again as a 60 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: great poem directive, I mean, but it also was like 61 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: a cross between directive and a sound of thunder. Yes, yeah, yeah, 62 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: and I was I guess I also was definitely thinking 63 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: about the time machine. Um, you know, who can escape 64 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: Wells's time machine when considering the past at all? I mean, 65 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: anytime you're thinking about dinosaurs, you can, and another prehistar 66 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: creatures such as the pterosaurs, you can't help but imagine 67 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,679 Speaker 1: like traveling back and encountering them. That's the ultimate frame 68 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: of reference, right what if I was standing next to one. 69 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: But this is the ultimate real monster versus fictional monster 70 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: crossover because because well not to call dinosaurs monsters, but 71 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 1: you know, they're the They're one of the closest things 72 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: to monster myths, to dragon myths that you've got in 73 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: the real world. So you've got like a really interesting 74 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: sort of dinosaur fossil site with with interesting biogeographical qualities 75 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: that we will explore as we go on in the 76 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: and the rest of the episode. But it's right there 77 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: in Transylvania, right, it's it's vampire country indeed, and you know, 78 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: we will encounter a fossil that has been dubbed Dracula. 79 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: The paleontolog is covering it. How about those pony sized sauropods. 80 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: You didn't make that up, did you know? No, that's all. 81 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 1: That's one of one of like the really amazing things 82 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 1: about about this particular scenario and and ultimately about everything 83 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about in this episode, is that is 84 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: that we're looking at an example, a prehistoric example of 85 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: island dwarf is um and island gigantism, also known as 86 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: the the island fact or or the island rule. And 87 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: this is a concept we've talked about on the show before. 88 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it's come up several times. It has 89 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: to do with body size in populations of animals that 90 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: become isolated. But will really just that become isolated because 91 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be on islands. Islands is just 92 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: the easiest way for it to happen, Like another way 93 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: it can happen or in these interesting ecosystems known as 94 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: sky islands where um, I don't know, if you ever 95 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: to see like like essentially a plateau, it could be 96 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: the like that. One great example that I've been to 97 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: is like in Big Been National Park in Texas. So 98 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: you you have desert and then in the middle of 99 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: this there are some mountains rising up. And as you 100 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: go up the slopes of the mountains and in between 101 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: them at the higher altitudes, actually the climate changes, right, 102 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: because at higher altitudes it almost kind of mimics higher latitudes, 103 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: and so the types of plants you find change, the 104 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: types of animals you find change. It goes from sort 105 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: of desert to a weird kind of forest up in 106 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: the higher parts of the mountains. And so this can 107 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: function kind of like an island, right, because there are 108 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: creatures that can survive up in those mountain forests but 109 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: can't traverse the vast expanses of desert down below, or 110 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: if they do it, it can be very dangerous and they, 111 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: you know, might not make it to anywhere they could survive. 112 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: So anyway, you know, wherever you have a case where 113 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: species can survive in a very limited geographical range and 114 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: they're cut off from the rest of the continental populations, 115 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: you can have these cases of island gigantism or island 116 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: dwarf is um. Basically, smaller species tend to become larger 117 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: and larger species tend to become smaller. And there are 118 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: multiple reasons for this, but mainly it's that the smaller 119 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: species tend to become larger because on islands there is 120 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 1: a lack of predators that they would encounter on the 121 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: mainland that would be a check on their their growth. Meanwhile, 122 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: larger species tend to become smaller, presumably because of a 123 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: lack of energy resources that you would find on the mainland. 124 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: There's less to eat on the island, so it actually 125 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: pays to have a smaller body that requires less food. 126 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: A commonly cited example of this is like the mammoths 127 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: that were found on certain islands, like the gigantic Colombian 128 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: mammoth evolved a dwarf variety on the Channel Islands off 129 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: the coast of California. There was also the Wrangel Island 130 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: mammoths that were I think the last wooly mammoths on 131 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: Earth that went extinct around four thousand years ago, were 132 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: smaller than their continental varieties, and the basic idea with 133 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: these examples is that they were able to to reach 134 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: these islands when the water level was lower, and then 135 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: they end up trapped there essentially, and life goes on 136 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: and evolution continues. Right, Life goes on, but there's less 137 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: to eat, so if you're trying to make a bigger body, 138 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: you're more likely to starve to death. So the ones 139 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: with genes for smaller bodies tend to be the ones 140 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: that survive. And so obviously we think about, you know, 141 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: examples of this in the recent past or in the 142 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: modern world. But the same principles of evolution and energy 143 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: and food dynamics would have been in place in the 144 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: time of dinosaurs, right exactly, so you could run into 145 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: exactly the same issue. And it seems like that's exactly 146 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: what's going on in this ancient Transylvanian island called hot Egg. Yes, 147 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: sixty six million years ago, this region was an island 148 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: in the large body of water that we we refer 149 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: to now as the Taffy c and this would have 150 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: covered large parts of Europe up through the Late Cretaceous period, 151 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: and it would have uh and it would have caused 152 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: this resulting group of islands to essentially be a European 153 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: archipelago and German born paleontologist Hens Deeter Sous describes it 154 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: as a quote show allow epicontinental sea dotted with variously 155 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: sized islands. Uh Seuss Senior scientist and Curator of Vertebrate 156 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: Paleontology at the National Museum of Natural History of the 157 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: Smithsonian Institution. And he even has a dinosaur named after him. 158 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 1: Um so you know he's the real deal. It's a 159 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: Paki cephalosaur, right, Pacula, Pakia cephalosaur. Hans sus Susia and Cecia. 160 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: Always a good sign and a paleontologist. The amount of 161 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: honor is directly proportional to how hard it is to 162 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: say a little known fact. We We should also note 163 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: that you know we're we're talking a long time ago here, 164 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: so it's not million issue. Oh, Europe was flooded back then, 165 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: um no. As SEUs points out in a two thousand 166 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: Tin paper titled an Unusual Dinosaur from the Late Cretaceous 167 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: of Romania and the Island Rule, there was there was 168 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: complex tectonic activity along the northern margin of the western Tethys, 169 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: and then there was volcanic activity that resulted in these 170 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: Cretaceous islands rising up. So and then the largest of 171 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: these covered much of what we now know as the 172 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: Iberian Peninsula and France extending into Central Europe. Now, this 173 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: particular island in the Deaths, which is you know, which 174 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: corresponds to the modern region of Hatig Transylvania. This would 175 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 1: have been roughly I'm reading eighty thousand square kilometers or 176 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,719 Speaker 1: thirty thousand, eight d eight square miles. And to put 177 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: that in perspective, modern day Ireland is uh roughly thirty 178 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: two five hundred nine square miles in size. So sort 179 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: of Irelands sort of a you know, a Romanian Ireland 180 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: um that's crawling with odd sized prehistoric creatures. So that's 181 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: how we came to have these islands, roughly, these European 182 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: islands in the late Cretaceous uh and uh. And you know, 183 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: we ended up with various creatures stranded upon these islands. Uh. 184 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: And they were subject to evolutionary changes that we refer 185 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: to roughly as the island rule. So the Titanic sauropod 186 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: is humbled to the size of a pony, and other 187 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: creatures that will get to rise too much larger sizes. 188 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,719 Speaker 1: And who would read such a such a thing from 189 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 1: the fossil record, you know, you might. You might think, 190 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: especially given um uh you know that that paper I 191 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: decided from two thousand ten, you might think, well, this 192 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: is a fairly recent discovery. You especially might think that 193 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: if you uh you know, like me, we're not familiar 194 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: with this, this marvelous world of of of oversized and 195 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: undersized prehistoric beasts. But to look to the origin of 196 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: these discoveries, we have to look to a rogue Austro 197 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: Hungarian baron of the late nineteenth and early twentieth century. 198 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: All right, let's take a break and when we come back, 199 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: we will meet the baron. All right, we're back, So 200 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: it's time to meet the baron, a character who plays 201 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: a major role in the history of the science and 202 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: discovery of the the Paleo Island Hottig. And this baron 203 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: is Baron friends Notche von Felso Silva's who lived eighteen 204 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: seventy seven. In nineteen thirty three, yes, Baron Nopcha and 205 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: and I have to have to admit, when we started 206 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: this episode, I really didn't expect there to be a 207 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: fascinating human story in the midst of all of this, 208 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: even though, of course paleontology is always a human story 209 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: because paleontologists are the humans who who uncover these secrets 210 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: of the past. But I thought this was just gonna 211 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: be all, um, you know, rampaging prehistoric beasts, right, But 212 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: this is a fascinating individual. And Smithsonian dot com has 213 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: a great article on NOA titled History Forgot This rogue 214 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: aristocrat who discovered dinosaurs and died penniless by Vanessa Veselka, 215 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: which goes into far more detail in his life than 216 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: we're going to explore here, especially concerning some some tragic 217 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: in the later portions of his life. He was a 218 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: really interesting figure though, and this is a great article, 219 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: by the way, this is one that I think listeners 220 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: just should go go off and read. Definitely, yeah, he is. 221 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: You know, it's tempting to want to just sum him 222 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: up in a few words like say, oh, he was, 223 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 1: you know, a gentleman scientists towards the end of the 224 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: time period in which the general that gentleman scientists was 225 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: a thing, and that's I think mostly true. But then 226 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: there are all these other weird dimensions to his character. 227 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: Um So, he was born into privilege and aristocracy, but 228 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: he also seemed to live with what we would now 229 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: likely classify as like as a manic depressive disorder, you know, 230 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: he was he was apparently prone to periods of intense 231 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: focus and energy, which it is good when you're engaging 232 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: in you know, early fossil study and some of the 233 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: other activities he was involved in. But then of course 234 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: the flip side is that that there were these morose 235 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: periods as well. He's also described as like being absolutely 236 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: brilliant in a scientific sense and mostly self taught, you know, 237 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,439 Speaker 1: just learning from like writing to people and getting them 238 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: to send him books, and then teaching himself subjects like 239 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: biology and geology that you know, he didn't have formal 240 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: training in, and then making all of these discoveries about 241 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: dinosaurs and paleontology and about deep time. But also not 242 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: all always, not always having the right kind of social 243 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: skills within the professional context to get his work accepted. 244 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: Like apparently he was very rude, and he was or 245 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: it could be very rude, but could also be very charming. 246 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and and uh yeah, so much of it 247 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: again was he was self taught. He's he's writing other 248 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: experts and getting them to send him books. Or there's 249 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: also the story of him him going off to university 250 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: and bringing this fossil with him from you know, from 251 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: from the area of Romania, and you know he was 252 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: from and uh, and the professor there was like he 253 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: was like, what is this? He help me figure this out? 254 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: And he's like, I don't know, you can figure it out, 255 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: essentially like send him back with it, which you know, 256 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: which is the author points out of the Smithsonian piece. Um. 257 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: You know, the sucker says that's either like some great 258 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: tutelage where the professor is like, oh, I'm going to 259 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: grow this young mind by inspiring them to go U 260 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: find the answer themselves, or it's like a really lazy 261 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: or overwork professor was like I don't have time to 262 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: help you, uh, you know, decipher this rock. Go do 263 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: it yourself. But do it himself. He did. And and 264 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: so he's one of these remarkable you know, accounts of 265 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: his kind of like a self made gentleman scientists. Uh, 266 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: though obviously had had a certain advantage on the situation 267 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: by being born into the aristocracy. Well yeah, that's a 268 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: common thing you see in the history of science that 269 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: that a lot of the great scientists of the nineteenth 270 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: centuries say, we're we're sort of aristocrat types. Uh. And 271 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: obviously I don't think that's because aristocrats are better at 272 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: sciences because they had the resources and the leisure to 273 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: pursuit to like, to get into these pursuits. If you're 274 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: a farmer working night and day, like you, you don't 275 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: have the time and the money to go into the sciences. Yeah. Yeah, 276 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: so he was. And then I said, he's like I said, 277 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: he's he's kind of emerging towards the end of the 278 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: gentleman science being a thing at all, and certainly towards 279 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: the end of his career. In the end of his life, 280 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: he was kind of shut out from scientific circles. Uh. 281 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: And some of the ideas that he he was was 282 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: promoting during his life were ultimately ideas that were not 283 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: widely accepted, though interesting, interestingly enough, would become widely accepted 284 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: many decades later. In the nineteen seventies, for example, is 285 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: a time when people started looking back at him and saying, oh, 286 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: here's this interesting character, uh from the history books. He 287 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: you know, he published a hundred and fifties scientific papers 288 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: in his life, and he identified twenty five genera of 289 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: reptiles and five different dinosaurs. But we've largely forgotten him 290 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: and we don't celebrate him at all. Uh, And and 291 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: people started you know, looking back and realizing who he 292 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: was and what he what he had discovered here. And yeah, 293 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: there are other aspects to his to his life that 294 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: are all interesting as well. Um, he was an adventurous individual. 295 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: He served as a spy for the Austro Hungarian Empire, 296 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: but he seems to have largely used his service to 297 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: the state as a vehicle for pursuing his interest in 298 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: geography and geology and the study of the Albanian people. Right. 299 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: There seems to be this like mix of interests here 300 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: because like he apparently just loved the Albanian culture and 301 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: like wanted to study it and you know, document all 302 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: their customs and everything like that. But the the government 303 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: that was funding his work basically wanted a sort of 304 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: you know, the early twentieth century equivalent of like a 305 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,719 Speaker 1: c I a fact book on a country, right, and 306 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: they wanted intelligence that could be used in it could 307 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: maybe be used in warfare or something like that later on. 308 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: So that's the money going into what he's doing. But 309 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: he but he apparently was just in love with Albania 310 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: and its people and and its culture, and at one point, 311 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: even through his name in the hat to potentially be 312 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: a king. There's there's that whole storyline. Um. Again, I 313 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: encourage everyone to to read that article about him. But again, 314 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: his in his scientific pursuits, he was very much ahead 315 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: of his time. Uh for starters. The theory of continental 316 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: drift is now widely, if not universally, accepted, but this 317 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: was not the case during Nopcha's life. Yet he presented 318 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: some of the most credible geologic evidence at the time 319 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,160 Speaker 1: for continental drift. And then, of course, when it came 320 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: to fossils, this is where he made his arguably his 321 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: greatest impact. He discovered some some very curious fossils in 322 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: the Hattag region, many of which were noticeable for being 323 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: quite smaller than examples that were popping up elsewhere, and 324 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,239 Speaker 1: he argued that these were examples of of of the 325 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: island rule in action, that the Hatta region was once 326 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: an island in a prehistoric sea. Now we'll get to 327 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: the specific dinosaurs and prehistoric creatures in a little bit, 328 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: but just just consider he found titanosaur sauropods the size 329 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: of mere ponies, despite the fact that titanosaurs are the 330 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: largest land animals that we know to have ever existed 331 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 1: reaching sizes you know, we're talking a hundred and twenty 332 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: one ft or thirty seven meters long and uh and 333 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: the weights of somewhere in the neighborhood of of of 334 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: seventy six tons. And yet he finds fossil evidence of 335 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: these multiple noticeably smaller uh Sara pods, And it just 336 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: raised the question what were they so well, I mean, 337 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,479 Speaker 1: the obvious things that they're juveniles dummy, right, aren't they 338 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: Aren't they just baby Sara pods? Yeah? That well that 339 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: was what critics argued, that these were just juveniles. Uh 340 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: and uh. And certainly one of the more alarming things 341 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: about Sara pods is that they do grow to such 342 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: alarming size from relatively small eggs. I mean, Sara pods 343 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: are her weird and strange creatures. Uh. You know that 344 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: we're still you know, figuring out how, you know, all 345 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: the you know, the answers to the mysteries of their biology. 346 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: And so, you know, just the fact that you find 347 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: some small ones, you know, it does seem like it 348 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: could be it could be one possible explanation could be that, well, 349 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: these were just the juveniles. Um. And and this read 350 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to have completely fallen out of fashion. As 351 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: recently as two thousand seven, a paper in historical biology 352 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: by Jean Leloof argued that that's some hot tig. Sara 353 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: pod fossils might suggest quote age class communities among sara 354 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: pod populations. So this is like a gang of sauropod youths, yes, exactly, like, yes, 355 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: a street gang of youths. Uh, you know. And I 356 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: believe we've discussed uh, this sort of thing in terms 357 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: of crocodilians and maybe komodo dragons on the show in 358 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: the past, the idea that some animals experienced tremendous body 359 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: size changes and therefore corresponding changes in diet and behavior 360 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: and maybe thought of his living in their own niche 361 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: daring different phases of their life, either alone or in groups. Yeah, 362 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 1: different life phases. They're almost kind of like different animals. Yeah, 363 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: you know, like a small komodo dragon is going to 364 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: eat different food than a full grown adult komodo dragon. 365 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: And the same might be the case with with like 366 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: a juvenile sara pod versus of course a fully grown 367 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 1: towering sara pod. But according to SEUs, subsequent bone studies 368 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 1: have backed up the theory that we're seeing the effects 369 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: of the island rule in the bones of these fun 370 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: size Sara pods. Basically, in twenty eight ten, a team 371 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: of pale intologists looked at the micro structure of the 372 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: bones to determine age and growth patterns, and they showed 373 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: that this particular sauropod, these pony sauropods, were fully grown 374 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: adults with small body sizes. And this is from a 375 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: paper from Benton at All published in Paleoclimatology paleo Ecology. Right, 376 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: I think so it mentioned in uh one of the 377 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: articles we were reading, I think it was the Smithsonian 378 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,719 Speaker 1: article that his methodology was that he actually did molecular 379 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: analysis of the bones, like the Nopecho was able to 380 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: determine that the dinosaurs were small adults and not young 381 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: because he was able to like look at the layers 382 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: of bone like osteogenesis rings within the within cross sections 383 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: of these bones. Yeah so, or the fossils, I mean yeah, so, 384 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: I mean he was not just you know, making a 385 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: wild guess here, who's forming the best scientific hypothesis that 386 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: he could based on the material. And I have to say, though, 387 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: I guess it's just the idea of pony size sauropods. 388 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: It's just so atractive. I I'm so flint stones it is. 389 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: And it was like there was some movie growing up 390 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: to is. I think it may have just been called 391 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: the Last Dinosaur, or like maybe the dinosaur had a name, 392 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: but I remember there being like a pony size sauropod, 393 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: some sort of puppet that that the the actors interact with. 394 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: I remember seeing that as a as a child, so 395 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 1: it's probably, uh, you know, brings back some of those memories. 396 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: But then also I mentioned when I was telling my 397 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: son about this, reading to him from that dinosaur book 398 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, you know, he was instantly in love 399 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: with this idea of pony size sauropods because I guess 400 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: the idea is, if it is pony size, you could 401 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: ride it. You could walk up to the gentle saua 402 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: pod and jump on its back and go for a 403 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: wild ride through the late Cretaceous jungle. That's so good. 404 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if this is the same last dinosaur 405 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: you were thinking of. I just I was trying to 406 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: call something out of the deep childhood memory, and it 407 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: is a It is a dinosaur from an animated series 408 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: of things. It was like fringe or something called Denver 409 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: the Last Dinosaur, And it is a he's like a hip, skateboarding, 410 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: sunglasses wearing dinosaur with a kind of with a with 411 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: a head feature that looks like a mohawk. And I 412 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: can't tell if he's supposed to be a sauropod or 413 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: a therapod. It seems unclear. No, that I don't think 414 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: I've seen that one. This would have been some live 415 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: action fair that I'm thinking of, like a like a 416 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: VHS rental for sure. Well, maybe after we get out 417 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: of the studio today we can go watch some Denver 418 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: the Last Dinosaur and see how it does. All right, well, 419 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: we're gonna take another break. When we come back, we'll 420 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: discuss some of the specific prehistoric creatures that we we 421 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: we have thus far encountered in Hautigan. Alright, we're back, 422 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: and it's time to discuss the pony size magyaro saris. Okay, 423 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: let's go for a ride. Saddle him up. Alright, So again, 424 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: While some have considered them to be juveniles, perhaps living 425 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: in their own, you know, social group, apart from the 426 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: giant adults, bone evidence seems to suggest that they were 427 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: fully grown adults, and this would be you know, probably 428 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: be perhaps one of nature's most impressive displays of the 429 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: island effect, humbling even the mighty Titanus are into a form, 430 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: you know, more befitting of this late Cretaceous ireland sized 431 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: uh island in what is now known as Romania. So 432 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: Sara pods in general, again, are just strange and mysterious creatures, 433 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: perhaps some of the strangest creatures ever to walk the Earth. 434 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: I mean, they push the boundaries of what's possible in 435 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 1: a terrestrial organism, like what sustainable, what's even you know, 436 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: morphologically possible, and uh, you know, and if these little 437 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: guys are just a ripple in an already amazing glimpse 438 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: of the prehistoric past. I mean we've been seeing sar 439 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: pods our entire lives, right, I mean we see him 440 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: in in cartoons, in toys, and you kind of take 441 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: them for granted. Right. There's just this thing that Fred 442 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 1: Flintstone slides down the neck off or the tail off 443 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: I can't remember, at the end of his work day, 444 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: but getting petted by Sam Neil. Yeah, they're just kind 445 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,880 Speaker 1: of the a Jurassic Park. They're just kind of the backdrop, 446 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: they don't really do anything, um well, because they're not 447 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: a media to sources, but they are their own mystery, 448 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: you know, when you start getting into the details of 449 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: you know, how they fed themselves and and and even 450 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: the various discussions about just how something this big lives. Yeah, 451 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: I mean it starts well as you were just alluding to, 452 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,239 Speaker 1: it sort of makes you question the what are the 453 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: extremes of what an animal can be and how it 454 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: can survive? Like, um, you know, obviously we've talked about 455 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: giant animals on the show before and about how they're 456 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: they're just sort of like problems that you might not 457 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: even expect when animals start getting past a certain size 458 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: and volume, problems with like heat distribution or like or 459 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: like heat exchange, and of course there'd be like energy issues, 460 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: especially so sorrow pods are you know, these are gonna 461 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,719 Speaker 1: be herbivores, right, They're they're not meat to sources, so 462 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: they're needing to eat plant matter in order to sustain 463 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: a body the size of a boat or bigger. You know, 464 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: so like you just start to wonder, like how could 465 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: they possibly eat enough to survive? How could they do it? Yeah, 466 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: it feels like biology just out of control to a 467 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: certain extent. And uh and in a sense, you, I 468 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 1: guess you could look at it like that, you know, like, 469 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: here is a form that is totally unsustainable if anything 470 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: drastic happens to the environment. And of course, drastic things 471 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: did happen to the environment, and these were these were 472 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: not certainly not the forms to survive the Late Cretaceous 473 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: extinction event. But uh, yeah, I would love to come 474 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: back and do perhaps a whole episode on sauropods in 475 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: the future, or bring on, you know, a guest and 476 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: expert who can talk to us about the weird mysteries 477 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: of sauropod life totally now. Right at the beginning of 478 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: the episode, we mentioned a a pterosaur called hats agopterics. 479 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: I know this one caught your fancy Roberts. So what's 480 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: the deal with hats agopterics? All right, so we've we've 481 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,719 Speaker 1: talked about the flying terra saurs on the show before. 482 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: The prehistoric flying reptiles that took to the air are 483 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: on a membrane of flesh that stretched between their ankles, 484 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: and they're greatly elongated fourth finger, so creepy to see 485 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 1: the skeletons and realized that the wing is a finger, 486 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: because it's a it's a distinctly different wing arrangement compared 487 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: to the vertebrate flight of birds and bats. Closer to bats, 488 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: it seems closer to bats, but still, you know, very 489 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: much its own thing. And of course we've recently discussed 490 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: the mighty u quatso kualis the this this godlike giant 491 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: terra sar that was found in the late Cretaceous but 492 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: in North America, and we often speak of it as 493 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: being perhaps the largest creature to ever fly inve Indeed, 494 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: it truly did fly, and and most paleontologies seem to 495 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: think that it did, but there is some disagreement there. 496 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: We'll get into an example of that. But you know, 497 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: it's it's ultimately only one of the sky lords of old, 498 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: because we had certainly had had q the wing serpent, 499 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: but who also had hats of gopter X. Both are 500 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: of the same family as Arkaday so named for the 501 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:07,400 Speaker 1: Persian dragon Ozdaha so hetzegopter X was a terra saar, 502 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: a winged reptile that when it was standing on the 503 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: ground would have been as tall as a giraffe. And 504 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: that's that's on We're not talking like reared up on 505 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: its hind legs exactly, though it's morphology is is very distinct. 506 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: We we have an image of this creature and an 507 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: artistic rendering that you'll find on our home page and 508 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: stuff to blow your mind dot com. But as it's 509 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's standing there on its hind legs and 510 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: on its its wings. It would have been as tall 511 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: as a giraffe with this enormous head, and if it 512 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: were to actually spread its wings you would have a 513 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: wing spat of roughly thirty six feet. It had this 514 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: broad skull. Uh and and you look at examples of 515 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: of the skull or at least two ideas of what 516 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: the full skull would have looked like, and it almost 517 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: looks too big to fly, but apparently it was made 518 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: fliable by polystyrene like structure that gave it from into 519 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: strength but also lightness. Yeah, this is the thing you 520 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: see with birds and you see with terosaurs because their 521 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: bones have to be very light in order to fly, 522 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: so they often have a kind of hollow or low 523 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: density structure. Now, one of the really cool and ultimately 524 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: um you know, nightmarish things about the hatsogopterrects and and 525 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: other uh and and it's you know, large terra sarkin 526 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: is that regardless of their flying ability to whatever extent 527 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: they you know, were or were not capable of flying, 528 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,479 Speaker 1: their fossils suggested they were rather adept at moving about 529 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: on all fours on the ground and not not only 530 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: just moving about, but hunting their prey in this fashion. 531 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: So you know, great folded living cargo planes that tower 532 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: over the dwarf herds of of sorrow pods, scooping them 533 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: up and their powerful jaws and gobbling them down. Uh. 534 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: That's that's ultimately the vision that we're left with. It's 535 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: astounding to imagine this thing, that this form that has 536 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: evolved to take to the air and then returned to 537 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: giant to to the earth and then ruling over these 538 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,959 Speaker 1: these diminished sauropods. Yeah, it's not really similar to what 539 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: you see with birds, for example, because birds don't crawl 540 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: with their wings right. When birds move around on the ground, 541 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: they tend to they walk on two feet. They're more 542 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: like the theropod uh dinosaur design. They walk on the 543 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: two feet and they got their wings folded up. These 544 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: are more like sometimes you can see bats crawl this 545 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: way where they've got the they've got the winged hands 546 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: that are part of the wings, but they still use 547 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: them to crawl quadrupedally. And so when you see representations 548 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: of this, I've seen it animated the way these giant 549 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: pterosaurs would crawl. It looks messed up. It's really scary. Yeah, 550 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: I think bats are probably the best, uh, you know, 551 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: contemporary comparison. Particularly, there is a type of of of 552 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: bat you'll find in New Zealand, the Mista synoda bats, 553 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: and they spend much of their time on the ground there. 554 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: They're certainly will flight, but they crawl around a lot 555 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: of the time. So they have their their claws have 556 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: extra projections that aid in digging around in the dirt 557 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: and uh and and climbing on the on on the 558 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: sides of trees, and their wings fold back in a 559 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: unique way, so there, you know, it's more streamlined. So 560 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: when it's in in ground mode, it it really looks 561 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: more like some manner of rodent in a sense. I mean, 562 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: there's is still clearly a bat, but but it does 563 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: seem like this you're seeing a similar situation where this 564 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: this this winged form has taken back to the earth, 565 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: and due to uh, you know, the particular you know, 566 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: relaxation of the predatory pressure in its environment, is able 567 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: to sort of become you know, a big deal on 568 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: the ground again, So it has the optics big on 569 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: the ground, big on the ground, A big deal on 570 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: the ground. I guess that's one of the things that's 571 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: just that's just so um, you know, topsy turvy about 572 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: the scenario, right, is that again the small all sauropods 573 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: and the giant winged creature that doesn't necessarily have to 574 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: fly anymore, that they can just uh you know, roam 575 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: about on all fours and gobble up of you know, 576 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: whatever it pleases with virtually no predators. And that's that's 577 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: key to to figuring out why has the gop directs 578 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: was so big. It would have had no predators in 579 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: an abundance of food. And here's the thing, perhaps even 580 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: larger food than they would have found elsewhere, because they 581 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: have this enormous meal that you know, they're they're probably 582 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: not eating a sauropod in other scenarios, but here, well no, 583 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: of course not I unless there may be scavenging or something. Yeah, 584 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: But but but here suddenly the sauropods are smaller, perhaps 585 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: even bite size or fun size, if you will, and 586 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: so they grew large and dominant lords of Earth and sky, 587 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: and keeping with the Mahars of Edgar Rice Burrows fiction, 588 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: these were the this sort of Terra Saar like creatures 589 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: that ruled over one of his fictional worlds fattened on 590 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: Sara ponies. Yes, uh, there is even one particularly large 591 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: fossil that they found in Hantig that they actually dubbed Dracula, 592 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,479 Speaker 1: And this wasn't in in two thousand nine, and they 593 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: found fragments of an even larger specimen, or at least 594 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: a specimen of the far larger lower jaw. In two 595 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: thousand eighteen, Michael Habiev, an expert on terra stars at 596 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: the University of Southern California, told National Geographic dot Com 597 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: and eighteen that he believed that this latest specimen was 598 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: this latest specimens especially was probably too large to fly. 599 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: Um that it may have flown when it was younger, 600 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: but then it basically reaches the point where it's it's 601 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: large enough and it doesn't have to anymore, which is 602 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: interesting because we're kind of coming back to this idea 603 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: of a creature growing, and it's sort of mode of 604 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: of operations. It's a it's diet changing. So you could 605 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: have a creature here that you know, when it's young, 606 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: it's still flying from place to place, but then once 607 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: it reaches a significant size, it has no need to 608 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: fly anymore, maybe has limited ability to even achieve powered 609 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: flight anymore, but it's not an issue because it's a 610 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: towering TerraSAR monster that eats all the dwarf sauropod babies 611 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: that it wants. And then Michael Michael Haby he compares 612 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: this to the elephant birds of Madagascar, which work, which 613 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: went extinct roughly a thousand years ago. But we're a 614 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 1: large flightless bird that thrived in that part of the world, 615 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: cut off from the rest of Africa. Big death, Ostrich. 616 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,439 Speaker 1: But there are a few other examples worth touching on here. 617 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,320 Speaker 1: For instance, there's a tomato saurus. This was a hadressar 618 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: or a duck build dino, another variety I'd love to 619 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: come back to and discuss in detail on the show 620 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 1: because they're so alien and also in some ways a 621 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: great example of kind of peak dinosaur prior to the 622 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: Late Cretaceous extinction event. But this particular specimen in in 623 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: Haunting was smaller than a modern crocodile, so roughly like 624 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: five meters long or so um. And this was uh 625 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 1: and this was one that would have seemed almost mountable 626 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: to a human if you were standing next to it, 627 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: or at least while this hadrosaur was on all fours, 628 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: because other hadrosaurs were considerably larger and would have towered 629 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,280 Speaker 1: over humans, particularly when they reared up on their into 630 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: bipedal form. And here's another interesting fact about Tomatosaurus. A 631 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: fossil of a juvenile specimen was discovered in sixteen with 632 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: evidence of a benign tumor in its lower jaw. And 633 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: this is the first for a dinosaur fossil and ultimately 634 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: proof that that such tumors are not mere modern biological realities, 635 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: of course. And then there's a bald oar bond doc okay, 636 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 1: and this is that we we referenced this name earlier 637 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,760 Speaker 1: in the Cold Open, but this particular species was named 638 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: after the dragon of Romanian legend, and so this would 639 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 1: have been a therapod hunter, in keeping with raptors such 640 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: as velocity raptor. And it's one of the Dromeo sarids. 641 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: But it differs from other Droma sarid fossils because it 642 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: had only two functional digits on its hand. Most of 643 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: its relatives would have had three for proper grasping, so 644 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,879 Speaker 1: reduced ability in this department. But it also had more 645 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: digit functionality and its large talent feet and so this 646 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: is what SEUs has to say about this. Thus, each 647 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,439 Speaker 1: foot of Baldar sported a double set of these large claws, 648 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: which were likely used for seizing and disemboweling prey. The 649 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: robust hind limb shows extensive fusion of bones in its 650 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: proportionately short distal portion, with formation of a tibio tarsis 651 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: and a tarso metatarsis. Uh. These unusual features suggest that 652 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: Baldoor was capable of delivering powerful strikes with its feet, 653 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: and Sus contends that these changes were likely due to 654 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: the island effect as well. So just another peculiar example 655 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: of of of a fossil species that was not found 656 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 1: elsewhere but was was warped, was changed and took on 657 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: a special form due to its isolation on this island 658 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: and got the gutting kick. Yeah well now maybe we 659 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: I think you've changed my mind and my number one 660 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: time travel destination. I think I want to go to 661 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: hot Egg. Well, I would definitely visit if it were 662 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: visit Hoteg give Hotig. We're, you know, a special exhibit 663 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 1: at a Jurassic Park type scenario. But that it brings 664 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: me back to my my past rants about Jurassic Park, 665 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: like why do we keep coming back to the same 666 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: and in many cases outdated um dinosaur and prehistoric forms 667 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: when we could be encountering these creatures like this should 668 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: be the next Jurassic Park film. In my opinion is uh, 669 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: you know, don't bring back the u the t rex, 670 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 1: don't bring back the velocira raptors. Don't change their color 671 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,919 Speaker 1: just so you can sell a slightly different toy, uh 672 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: to the kids. No, still, you can still sell plenty 673 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: of toys to the kids. But make it. Make it these, 674 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 1: you know, make it pony sized sauropods. Make it the 675 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 1: hotsagopter X. I think hotsagopterrects would make a terrific c 676 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: g I Villain. I think that that. Yeah, there's a 677 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: lot of potential here. I mean, people would want to 678 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 1: have that. They'd have reason for bringing back a pony 679 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: size sauropod if they could have a petting zoo kids 680 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,240 Speaker 1: could ride them. Yeah, yeah, that that's more plausible plot wise. 681 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 1: All right, So there you have it. We're gonna we're 682 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: gonna leave it right there again. That that really cool 683 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: children's dinosaur book, Atlas of Dinosaur Adventures by Emily Hawkins 684 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: and illustrated by Lucy Leatherhead. Uh. It's definitely in print, 685 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 1: definitely worth picking up, and I think it's worth picking 686 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 1: up even if you don't have any kids in your 687 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 1: house or in your life. If you love dinosaurs and 688 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 1: prehistaric creatures and or you know geology and geography, it's 689 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,799 Speaker 1: it's it's a great just a tabletop book if nothing else, 690 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: but you can also spend lots of time reading through 691 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,240 Speaker 1: it with young ones uh and and feeding their need 692 00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: for for dinosaurs and terra saurs. It's that or um 693 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 1: Also obviously, we we surely have listeners who either reside 694 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: or are from Romania, or have visited Romania, and perhaps 695 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: you've you've visited some of these areas. Though some of 696 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,359 Speaker 1: the articles we're looking at mentioned that you know, there 697 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: are attempts to celebrate paleontology in Romania, various museums that 698 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,280 Speaker 1: have you know, the efforts that have been put together. 699 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 1: So we would love to to read your field reports 700 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: on Romanian paleontology, uh and uh and and ultimately just 701 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: you know the the world that we are discussing in 702 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: this episode, only you know millions of years later. Absolutely, 703 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: also send us your barren friends nope, chef fan fick. 704 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you want more episodes of Stuff 705 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind, go to Stuff to Blow your 706 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 1: Mind dot com. And if you want to support the show, 707 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: the best thing you can do is to rate and 708 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: review wherever you have the power to do so, but 709 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: also make sure you have subscribed. And hey, we have 710 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: another podcast titled Invention, and I think you should give 711 00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 1: that a shot. You should subscribed to that as well. 712 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,359 Speaker 1: And might be thinking, oh, I don't know, Robert and Joe, 713 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: I really like these trippier episodes, these weirder episodes that 714 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 1: you put together. I don't know how trippy and weird 715 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,399 Speaker 1: technology is. Well. I just want to uh to read 716 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: you a quick quote from Terence McKenna on technology to 717 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: remind you otherwise. He says, um, we take in matter 718 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,799 Speaker 1: that has a low degree of organization, we put it 719 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: through mental filters, and we extrude jewelry, Gospels, space shuttles. 720 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: This is what we do. We are like coral animals 721 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: embedded in a technological reef of extruded psychic objects. And 722 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: that's exactly what we talk about every week on Invention. 723 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: Couldn't have put it better. Yeah, so make sure you 724 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: check it out. Make sure you have subscribed to Invention. 725 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: Subscribe to Invention anyway. Huge thanks to our audio producers 726 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: Seth Nicholas Johnson and Maya Cole. If you would like 727 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us directly to let us 728 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,800 Speaker 1: know feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 729 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 730 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,880 Speaker 1: you can email us at contact Act. That's Stuff to 731 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:12,279 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind 732 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For 733 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 734 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.