WEBVTT - A Dirty Little Book Thief: John Charles Gilkey

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<v Speaker 1>Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, Elizabeth Dutton, how's it going. I'm pretty good. I've

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<v Speaker 2>been waiting for you. Oh yeah, it's fine, but it's fine, Elizabeth.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, whatever, I wasn't waiting blood. You know what's ridiculous?

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<v Speaker 2>I do? Okay? Can I tell you?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>I'd love it before Bruce Willis took the role. Bruce

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<v Speaker 2>Willis out of guy. Lots of other people were offered

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<v Speaker 2>this part. Arnold Schwarzenegger, he was offered it. He turned

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<v Speaker 2>it down. Why because he wanted to get into comedy.

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<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth Sylvester Stallone he turned it down. Clint Eastwood, El Gibson,

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<v Speaker 2>James Kahn turned it down, Richard Gear turned it down. Finally,

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<v Speaker 2>the role was offered to Frank Sinatra. He also turned

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<v Speaker 2>it down. Now that actually made the most sense, even

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<v Speaker 2>though Frank was in his seventies. Now, why did it

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<v Speaker 2>make sense to offer a role to Frank sinatchra before

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<v Speaker 2>Bruce Willis and that role turned out to be die Hard?

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<v Speaker 3>That was gonna say, That's all I could think when

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<v Speaker 3>die Hard?

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, Yes, the role Diehard originally was going to Frank

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<v Speaker 2>Sinatra was better fit. And I honestly, he can tell you.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a good reason. Diehard is based on Roderick Thorpe's

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<v Speaker 2>novel Nothing Lasts Forever. In that novel, retired detective Joe

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<v Speaker 2>Leland takes on terrorists in the headquarters of the Claxon

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<v Speaker 2>Oil Corporation on Christmas e. Nothing Last Forever was the

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<v Speaker 2>sequel to Thorpe's nineteen sixty six novel The Detective. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>if you know your Sinatra filmography, then you know that

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<v Speaker 2>that book was also adapted into a movie of the

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<v Speaker 2>same name, and it came out first obviously in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>sixty eight. The Detective featured joe Leland as the officer

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<v Speaker 2>investigating a supposed suicide, and joe Leland was played by

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<v Speaker 2>Frank Sinatra.

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<v Speaker 4>One of the.

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<v Speaker 2>Biggest box office hits of Sinatra's whole career was The Detective.

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<v Speaker 2>It was one of the highest gropasing movies in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>sixty Ye you ever heard, I know a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>people haven't. I've watched it. It's actually kind of enjoyable,

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<v Speaker 2>really gritty. Yeah. So if Sinatra had returned to the

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<v Speaker 2>role of John McClain, which they would have still called

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<v Speaker 2>John Leland, Diehard would have been a sequel.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow, you know whatdiculous? It's ridiculous. Do you want to

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<v Speaker 3>know what else is ridiculous?

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<v Speaker 2>Dude?

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<v Speaker 3>Do I highbrow Kleptomania? Oh, this is ridiculous Crime a

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<v Speaker 3>podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists, and cons. It's

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<v Speaker 3>always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 3>You heard that. How many books do you think you owned?

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<v Speaker 4>Zarin Books?

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<v Speaker 2>Jeez?

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<v Speaker 4>A lot?

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<v Speaker 2>Like I have a pretty good library. I don't even

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<v Speaker 2>have all my books with me, like in my living space,

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<v Speaker 2>so I would thousands.

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<v Speaker 3>Really. Yeah, My mom has a library in her house

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<v Speaker 3>and then they are also well they are like bookcases

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<v Speaker 3>in all the other rooms, so I think her total

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<v Speaker 3>has to be well north of a thousand.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, he is like, yeah, it's a ten thousand

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<v Speaker 2>lot of books, a lot of books, stack, a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of novels and stuff. Real quick.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, well, I like I have bookcases and then

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<v Speaker 3>I have books stacked on the ground in my in

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<v Speaker 3>my office. And I moved to ebooks because storage was

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<v Speaker 3>becoming an issue. And then I moved to audio books

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<v Speaker 3>because I'm an old lady. I'm really enjoying it, like

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<v Speaker 3>in the garden.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, anyway, some old radio shows. I haven't even gotten

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<v Speaker 2>audiobooks yet.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm feeling the audiobooks right now. But speaking of books, Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>what would you say are your top five books? Like,

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<v Speaker 3>in no particular order. I know it's a tough one,

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<v Speaker 3>like top five, you know, top five bands or songs.

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<v Speaker 3>That's really hard. You know, we should we should just

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<v Speaker 3>have an episode that's us listing our top fives of

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<v Speaker 3>stuff and then accusing each other of the crime of neglecting.

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<v Speaker 3>That's my indulgence. But anyway, what would you just, off

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<v Speaker 3>the top of your head? Top five books.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna go top five, not the top five I

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<v Speaker 2>think that are best. I'm gonna go with most formative,

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<v Speaker 2>because I think that's easier for me to exactly. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>Number one the Bible according to Mark Twain, Okay, the

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<v Speaker 2>full title.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And number two Lynston Hughes, The Big Cu. Number three

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<v Speaker 2>that's his auto that's his autobiography or one of his

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<v Speaker 2>books is autobiographical. Number three, The Book of Laughter and

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<v Speaker 2>Forgetting Wlankandera. I really liked that one Fear of Flying

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<v Speaker 2>Erica Jong because of when I read it, it meant a

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<v Speaker 2>lot to me, and I love Tropica Cancer by Henry Miller,

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<v Speaker 2>so I put those kind of together. But if I

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<v Speaker 2>said Tropic Cancer Hendry Miller is.

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<v Speaker 3>Just like, really, you were perfect?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly once again, So I'm gonna go with the

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<v Speaker 2>zipliss f of Erica Jeong on this one instead, So

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<v Speaker 2>Fear of Flying and then lastly, if I'm being honest,

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<v Speaker 2>I would say Fear of Fear and Loathing Las Vegas.

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<v Speaker 2>I read it one day in a park and it

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<v Speaker 2>was an amazing novel. And I was really young. I

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<v Speaker 2>was in college, and of course it was the exact

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<v Speaker 2>perfect time to read a book like that. I was

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<v Speaker 2>blown away by the use of the language to tell

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<v Speaker 2>you the storytelling. I mean, so, I thought that was

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<v Speaker 2>a really powerful book. And I had read other stuff

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<v Speaker 2>his prior to it. Yeah, I thought that one was

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<v Speaker 2>just really great and I read it all one sitting,

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<v Speaker 2>which is I recommend I read to Dartha like that.

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<v Speaker 3>It's really weird formative.

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<v Speaker 2>Also, your book Driftwood coming in at U number five

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<v Speaker 2>is with an asterisk because I feel like you'd be like, no,

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<v Speaker 2>you can't say that your book drift Woods.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, thank you?

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<v Speaker 2>What? Top five?

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<v Speaker 3>That's good? Here are my top five. Thank you for asking.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, what are your no particular tell me what

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<v Speaker 3>Joan Didion's Run River, or if I were to go

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<v Speaker 3>like nonfiction slouching towards both the Him one hundred Years

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<v Speaker 3>of Solitude, Gabriel because Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath, or maybe

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<v Speaker 3>like Travels with Charlie or with cortes Ian Rankins, Knots

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<v Speaker 3>and Crosses. I don't know that that's the first Inspector

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<v Speaker 3>Rebis novel.

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<v Speaker 2>You told me about Inspector I like, I want to

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<v Speaker 2>check this.

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<v Speaker 3>And then The Heart is a Lonely Hunter by Carson

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<v Speaker 3>I think would be like some of these I love

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<v Speaker 3>for the craft of them, and then some I love

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<v Speaker 3>because they remind me of the place and time in

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<v Speaker 3>my life. When I read them, like you were.

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<v Speaker 2>To formative books, it stayed with me.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly. And so you know, like any like if

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<v Speaker 3>I would have like a song or a movie or

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<v Speaker 3>band list, it's shifting sands, you know. It's sort of

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<v Speaker 3>like in this what you come up with off the

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<v Speaker 3>top of your head. Listen, rude dudes, tell us your

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<v Speaker 3>current five top current top five books in the comments

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<v Speaker 3>on Instagram.

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<v Speaker 2>Ridiculous crime book clubs.

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<v Speaker 3>Really eager to see what people love seriously, So yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>go to Instagram and put your top five in the comments.

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<v Speaker 3>So anyway, books, I have a ton of books, but

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<v Speaker 3>I don't have any rare ones. I have like the

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<v Speaker 3>giant Old Family Bible, but like it's not worth money

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<v Speaker 3>in the real world.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't have like a first printing of the de

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<v Speaker 2>camera On.

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<v Speaker 3>No, just no, I have. I have assigned Anne LaMotte

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<v Speaker 3>bird by bird, and she told me she doesn't sign books,

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<v Speaker 3>but I was like, I was able to browbeat her

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<v Speaker 3>in the signing.

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<v Speaker 4>Really.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so that's like the most you know, high level

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<v Speaker 3>I have. Do you have any rare books? And then

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<v Speaker 3>where are they located in your house? And how far

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<v Speaker 3>are you from the nearest rare bookstealer. I'm just just curious.

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<v Speaker 2>Just curious. Now. Actually, I do have some books that

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<v Speaker 2>are worth something. A couple of them are like weird

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<v Speaker 2>aesoteric books. I've got some really old Freemason books that

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<v Speaker 2>a friend of mine gave me that are like from

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<v Speaker 2>the nineteenth century, wow, that are definitely worth something. I

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<v Speaker 2>have some American history books that are some first printings

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<v Speaker 2>that are like written by people from American history. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to tell you about where they are

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<v Speaker 2>because I don't trust you. Call me a freak.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, there are people who dedicate their lives to rare books.

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<v Speaker 2>And well some do you do you have any rare books?

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<v Speaker 4>No?

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<v Speaker 3>I just told you you have none, none.

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<v Speaker 2>Zero, zero, second time.

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<v Speaker 3>And LaMotte bird by Bird and then I have a

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<v Speaker 3>gigantic old family bible that has like deeds in like

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<v Speaker 3>real estate letters from the gold Rush era. That's all

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<v Speaker 3>I have. But so people, there are people who dedicate

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<v Speaker 3>their lives oh their books. Some are like they collect.

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<v Speaker 3>Some are there to preserve. They really just want to

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<v Speaker 3>preserve them, the first editions and such and zaren you

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<v Speaker 3>know what happens when there are valuable objects that are

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<v Speaker 3>portable and sold with little or no paperwork. Yes, crime, yes,

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<v Speaker 3>exactly crime. Enter John Charles guilty. My dude was born

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<v Speaker 3>in Modesto, California.

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<v Speaker 4>I know where that is.

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<v Speaker 3>In nineteen sixty eight.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm wearing a Modesto Nuts minor league baseball cap. Right.

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<v Speaker 3>Their minor league team is called the Nuts, and you

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<v Speaker 3>have a hat and you're wearing it. Go Nuts, Go Nuts.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the craziest looking at Anyway, I've mentioned Modesto briefly before,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know you laughed at it. But I think

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<v Speaker 3>it's a I think it's a great Central Valley.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I picked because I'm from Davis, so I'm out

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<v Speaker 2>of the Central Valley, and therefore I look down on

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<v Speaker 2>Stockton in California.

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<v Speaker 3>Central Valley feeds the world, and you gotta respect, please,

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<v Speaker 3>you gotta give respect. Modesto ninety miles east of San Francisco.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like smack dab in the middle of robust farmland.

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<v Speaker 2>San Franisco's on your way to the Gold Country.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you know how the city got its name, by

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<v Speaker 3>the way, Modesto.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for being a very demure and modest environ Well.

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<v Speaker 3>It started out as a stop on the railroad that

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<v Speaker 3>connected Sacramento to Los Angeles. Yeah, Central Pacific. Yeah, eighteen

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<v Speaker 3>seventies when it was created. One of the founders of

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<v Speaker 3>the railroad company, Mark Hopkins, he wanted to name it

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<v Speaker 3>after his associate, a banker named William Ralston, and yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>Ralston told him to pick something else, don't call it Ralston.

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<v Speaker 3>And then a railroad employee overheard this conversation and then

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<v Speaker 3>said really loudly in Spanish that Ralston was a modest man,

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<v Speaker 3>and so the other founder of the company, Charles Crocker,

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<v Speaker 3>another big he decided to call the place modest though,

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<v Speaker 3>in honor of Ralston's Yeah, exactly, the modest one. Moestah,

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<v Speaker 3>so guilty Modesto's own. I'm not sure if you would

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<v Speaker 3>call him modest. Well, judge, you'll judge for yourself when.

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<v Speaker 2>You try not to judge Elizabeth just watching judging.

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<v Speaker 3>When he was a little kid, he started showing his

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<v Speaker 3>true colors, you know, as we all do. But his

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<v Speaker 3>true color was a hue called kleptomenia.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, he could not The kid could not stop stealing.

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<v Speaker 2>He rant color.

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<v Speaker 3>When he was nine, he stole a baseball catcher's mitt.

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<v Speaker 3>He got it home and he realized the mitt was

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<v Speaker 3>for left handed people and he's right handed. Ramp So

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<v Speaker 3>where did he get these thieving ways, you know, that's

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<v Speaker 3>the big question. Well, his parents, they wound up helping

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<v Speaker 3>him out with that in later years. So I think

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<v Speaker 3>it was like a nature nurture even balance for this

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<v Speaker 3>modesto nut Gilkey. He doesn't just love to steal. He

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<v Speaker 3>has other passions like reading. Oh, he fell in love

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<v Speaker 3>with reading. Thanks to Richie Rich comic books.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey got to start somewhere. That's a good place.

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<v Speaker 3>The Richie Rich character who's called the poor little rich Boy,

0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:41.240
<v Speaker 3>only child of super wealthy parents, girl's richest kid. Yeah,

0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.640
<v Speaker 3>you just want to like smack him. He was so

0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:45.960
<v Speaker 3>rich that, like his middle name was a dollar sign,

0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.600
<v Speaker 3>so gross, gold toilets all around. Did you ever get

0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:50.360
<v Speaker 3>into Richie Rich?

0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:52.480
<v Speaker 2>Look at me? Do you think I wanted to read

0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:55.480
<v Speaker 2>a Little Rich Boy? No, I wanted.

0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:57.240
<v Speaker 3>He never did it for me.

0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.559
<v Speaker 2>My sister liked Actually, so they were in the house.

0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.360
<v Speaker 3>I saw, okay, And I told you I had this

0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:04.760
<v Speaker 3>weird thing where like I felt I could like probably

0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:06.880
<v Speaker 3>beat him up, and I didn't respect that.

0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.000
<v Speaker 2>I barely Casper the ghost. I mean, I can tolerate

0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:13.280
<v Speaker 2>that kind of a kid like these, you know, and

0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:17.160
<v Speaker 2>also like a Heathcliff another one. I'm like, I don't know, Garfield,

0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:17.600
<v Speaker 2>what is this?

0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:18.520
<v Speaker 3>So?

0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:19.760
<v Speaker 4>Uh?

0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:21.880
<v Speaker 3>You know what? When I was a kid, I had

0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:26.120
<v Speaker 3>those Garfield books. I can remember like laughing hysterically at them,

0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:27.440
<v Speaker 3>and then I've looked at them since and.

0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:29.160
<v Speaker 2>Being like what my parents worried about me?

0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:31.040
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure at the age of five, what was I on.

0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:33.640
<v Speaker 2>Well, at least we've got two kids, because this one

0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:35.000
<v Speaker 2>little that's not right.

0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:39.520
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So for both of us, and we are speaking,

0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.760
<v Speaker 3>I'm trying to just make my mom proud. So Richie

0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:46.440
<v Speaker 3>rich comic books. They sent John Charles Guilty into a

0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:50.360
<v Speaker 3>fantasy world of wealth and instant gratification. And he was

0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:51.800
<v Speaker 3>there for it. He was living for it.

0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:52.960
<v Speaker 2>It was his Calvin and Hobbes.

0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:57.920
<v Speaker 3>Yes, so or bloom County County. So you know you

0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:00.960
<v Speaker 3>love reading, you love books, you love stealing stuff.

0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes, talking about me or friends.

0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:06.560
<v Speaker 3>We have a mashup on our hands. So in nineteen

0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.800
<v Speaker 3>ninety seven, Guilty was twenty nine years old. He went

0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:13.920
<v Speaker 3>to his first ever antiquarian book fair, Zarin, Where was

0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:15.559
<v Speaker 3>your first antiquarian book fair?

0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth? I'm so pleased to you ask me this question.

0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:23.400
<v Speaker 2>It's lying there in the promise of the future before

0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:25.439
<v Speaker 2>me somewhere. I can't quite see it. It's not come

0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:29.040
<v Speaker 2>into view, but I can feel it approaching an antiquary coming.

0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Do you see it? Are you going to bring it

0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:31.040
<v Speaker 2>to me?

0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.800
<v Speaker 3>I think so, because it would be my first antiquarian.

0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Did dawn break on the horizon?

0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:42.319
<v Speaker 3>I bet you'd be cool. So in his first antiquarian

0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:46.040
<v Speaker 3>book fair, he bought three tomes yes, a first edition

0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:50.280
<v Speaker 3>of The Dunewich Horror by H. P. Lovecraft, Rosemary's Baby

0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:54.160
<v Speaker 3>over eleven, and seven Gothic Tales by Isaac Dennison.

0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:55.200
<v Speaker 2>Likes them dark tails.

0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:59.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he's a spooky boy. And then you know, he

0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.680
<v Speaker 3>and the vendors, they're charmed by this whole thing. They're

0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.480
<v Speaker 3>just having a great time until the vendors realized that

0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:06.400
<v Speaker 3>he had paid for all three of them with bad

0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:10.840
<v Speaker 3>checks and maxed out credit cards. Oops ooopsies. To quote Sophocles,

0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.679
<v Speaker 3>profit is sweet, even if it comes from deception. Then,

0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:20.520
<v Speaker 3>and to quote Homer, so Gilki he had. He had

0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.880
<v Speaker 3>a real job. Sometimes. He got a holiday temp job

0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:27.680
<v Speaker 3>at Saxsmith Avenue department store in San Francisco. He was

0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:31.240
<v Speaker 3>the perfect employee. Everyone loved him. He even got a promotion,

0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.680
<v Speaker 3>which I didn't think was possible for holiday temp work.

0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.880
<v Speaker 3>But what have you. Maybe they promoted him to a

0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.680
<v Speaker 3>full time gig. Either way, he was working. While he

0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.800
<v Speaker 3>was working, what do you mean, Elizabeth, What do you mean, Elizabeth?

0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:48.800
<v Speaker 3>Great question, Dave. So he was spreading holiday cheer and

0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:50.880
<v Speaker 3>collecting credit card numbers oh.

0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.680
<v Speaker 2>I love doing that. Hundreds of great way to holiday.

0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.280
<v Speaker 3>He would record a credit card number and then wait

0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.760
<v Speaker 3>a month before using it, which is smart. Yeah, No

0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.959
<v Speaker 3>one suspects that the information was lifted at Sacks. You know,

0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.360
<v Speaker 3>could be anywhere after a month. And I figure, if

0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.720
<v Speaker 3>you're shopping at SAX in the holiday season, you're putting

0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.760
<v Speaker 3>some miles on that card. The plastic is getting put

0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:16.080
<v Speaker 3>through the paces to melting exactly. That back and forth

0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.760
<v Speaker 3>teaching is that a lot of friction. So once he

0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.520
<v Speaker 3>had the card and enough time had passed, he would strike.

0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.440
<v Speaker 3>He'd hit up a payphone in a hotel lobby and

0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.080
<v Speaker 3>from there he'd place book orders at rare booksellers and

0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:29.920
<v Speaker 3>he'd either pick up the book and say that he

0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:31.880
<v Speaker 3>was just a friend doing it as a favor for

0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.360
<v Speaker 3>the buyer, or he'd have his dad go pick it up.

0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.320
<v Speaker 3>Oh wow, Yeah, his dad was all about this.

0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:38.560
<v Speaker 2>They did teach him the life.

0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, oh yeah. His dad loved criming. So but I

0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:42.800
<v Speaker 3>don't know if his dad, like I think that Guilkey

0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.880
<v Speaker 3>brought his dad into criming. But you have to have

0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:47.320
<v Speaker 3>some element at home if you can.

0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:49.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or at least you know, you lean that way.

0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:53.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so Gilkey and his dad. They researched the Modern

0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:56.800
<v Speaker 3>Library's list of one hundred best novels looking for potential

0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.880
<v Speaker 3>high value targets. So if you want books that are

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.360
<v Speaker 3>or something, they have to have credibility with the people.

0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:07.320
<v Speaker 3>So guilty steps were impressive. Autograph copies of Mayor of

0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 3>Casterbridge by Thomas Hardy, an Invisible and an autograph copy

0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:15.120
<v Speaker 3>of Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison. Huh. A first edition

0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.600
<v Speaker 3>of the Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck, which was like,

0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:21.960
<v Speaker 3>oh my god, unipper O Sarah, founder of the California Missions.

0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:22.560
<v Speaker 3>Another one of.

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Those find edition.

0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:32.640
<v Speaker 3>Just cursed. First editions of Jack Kerouac's On the Road Tennessee,

0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:36.120
<v Speaker 3>Williams the street Car Named Desire, Kay Thompson's Elouise in Paris,

0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.320
<v Speaker 3>and Mark Twain's Life on the Mississippi first edition. He

0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:40.200
<v Speaker 3>was racking him up.

0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:41.680
<v Speaker 2>He's also going for all big names.

0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.200
<v Speaker 3>He was, though, about to cross pads with another character

0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.880
<v Speaker 3>in this tale, a white hat on the horizon, ready

0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:52.120
<v Speaker 3>to take down such a vile thief, Ken Sanders, a

0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.400
<v Speaker 3>man named Ken Sanders.

0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Future Kentucky chicken owner, Yeah exactly, and Colonel in the army.

0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.560
<v Speaker 3>Dude was born in nineteen fifty one to some lapsed

0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.520
<v Speaker 3>Mormons in Salt Lake City, Utah, and early on he

0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.360
<v Speaker 3>decided the best way to approach religion was to quote

0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:11.200
<v Speaker 3>stay the hell away from it. Yes, head, So, Ken

0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.480
<v Speaker 3>Sanders is more than a non Mormon. Though he's a

0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:17.080
<v Speaker 3>book dealer. He's also the head of security for the

0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:22.560
<v Speaker 3>Antiquary and Booksellers Association of America a BAA A BAH.

0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:26.600
<v Speaker 3>Another thing about Ken Sanders, he's an amateur detective, a

0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.080
<v Speaker 3>self appointed quote biblio Dick.

0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:30.800
<v Speaker 4>Yes that I.

0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:32.840
<v Speaker 3>Cannot stress how much I love this, the whole thing.

0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.920
<v Speaker 3>I'm savoring all the details, so biblio Dick. Sanders. He

0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.240
<v Speaker 3>noticed a trend. He heard about more and more book

0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:41.080
<v Speaker 3>dealers who'd been the victim of bounce checks, fraudulent credit

0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.040
<v Speaker 3>card charges. Dealers. You know, they report thefts to the

0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:48.240
<v Speaker 3>ABAA A BAA in what are called pink sheets, and

0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.560
<v Speaker 3>they're piling up. So when when he notified the police

0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.360
<v Speaker 3>of this pattern he was seeing, they just did not care.

0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:55.480
<v Speaker 2>Whatever.

0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.280
<v Speaker 3>Nerds poured a keg on him and like push him

0:16:58.280 --> 0:16:58.920
<v Speaker 3>into a locker.

0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.040
<v Speaker 2>I could, biblio Dick, because it sounds like something Vincent

0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Price would play like this really confident nerd.

0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.280
<v Speaker 3>You just would Would the biblio dick be dissuaded?

0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:08.520
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:10.400
<v Speaker 2>I gotta know, are you I doubt it?

0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:14.520
<v Speaker 3>Are you pickling kidding me? So Sanders he sounded the alarm.

0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.360
<v Speaker 3>He let other book dealers know about the rash of thefts,

0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.920
<v Speaker 3>and he said, most dealers in rare books are quote

0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.480
<v Speaker 3>a very small mom and pop operation, So losing five

0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:26.760
<v Speaker 3>thousand dollars book is pretty serious adverse economic impact.

0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's huge rrect Yeah.

0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.000
<v Speaker 3>You can't have that. So the biblio dick he took action.

0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh so he got to like not to shoe leather

0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:32.520
<v Speaker 2>but book leather.

0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:36.000
<v Speaker 3>Right, he just bounded on up. So Sanders he developed

0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.400
<v Speaker 3>an online system to track thefts, and he also came

0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.520
<v Speaker 3>up with a way to get the theft notifications to

0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:44.520
<v Speaker 3>other booksellers as quickly as possible, less smart so no

0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.560
<v Speaker 3>more pink sheet filing stacking up nineties baby. So, with

0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.879
<v Speaker 3>his data set established, he saw a pattern. There was

0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.520
<v Speaker 3>one thief who worked pretty much only on the West coast,

0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.480
<v Speaker 3>using stolen credit cards, and the books were later picked

0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.720
<v Speaker 3>up by a quote friend. But there was a curious

0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.480
<v Speaker 3>detas tail in this. The books never resurfaced on any

0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:07.800
<v Speaker 3>market for resale, never came up. Let's take a break.

0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.680
<v Speaker 3>When we come back, we'll continue this developing Guilty Biblio

0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:12.840
<v Speaker 3>Dick Cat and Mouse game.

0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:34.520
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Hello was.

0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.600
<v Speaker 2>Aaron, Hello Elizabeth. We're talking biblio dis.

0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:43.440
<v Speaker 3>Biblio Dick Modesto's own Charles John, Charles Gilkey Utah's finest

0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.720
<v Speaker 3>ken Biblio Dick Sanders. I just love saying.

0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:47.840
<v Speaker 2>It's your heart out Montana.

0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.480
<v Speaker 3>Books are important to both of these fellas, and so

0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:55.320
<v Speaker 3>let's look at Sanders' backstory. His love of books and

0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.280
<v Speaker 3>books selling started at a young age, just like Gilkey.

0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.600
<v Speaker 3>It started with comic books. He'd sell comic books to

0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.240
<v Speaker 3>his pals in grade school. His favorite character not Richie

0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:10.840
<v Speaker 3>Rich spider Man, like it, Gordon spider Man, dds spider Man.

0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:12.320
<v Speaker 2>I love the crime fighting dentist.

0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.880
<v Speaker 3>Sanders explained quote he had powers, but he was messed up.

0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.360
<v Speaker 3>What awkward kid wouldn't be attracted to him? God bless My.

0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.359
<v Speaker 2>Best friend of was a huge Spider Man. J Charlesworth

0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:24.320
<v Speaker 2>loved the Spider Man.

0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:24.640
<v Speaker 3>Nice.

0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:26.400
<v Speaker 2>I know so much about him just from our bike

0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:27.600
<v Speaker 2>riding conversations.

0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.680
<v Speaker 3>So this guy biblio Dick. His grandparents would take him

0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:37.120
<v Speaker 3>to Bertrand Smith's Acres of Books. You ever heard of Acres? Yeah,

0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.320
<v Speaker 3>it was a huge independent bookstore in Long Beach, California.

0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:42.439
<v Speaker 3>It's no longer, but at the time it was the

0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:46.439
<v Speaker 3>largest and oldest family owned secondhand bookstore in California. It

0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.480
<v Speaker 3>had more than a million books in stock. Yeah, it

0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:53.040
<v Speaker 3>sounds like heaven and it was for Sanders. The future

0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:56.320
<v Speaker 3>Biblio Dick would talk to the owner Bertrand Smith himself

0:19:56.320 --> 0:20:00.520
<v Speaker 3>about Edgar Allan Poe, Maxfield Parrish, Lewis Carroll, which I

0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.399
<v Speaker 3>love Maxfield Parish art. It's cheesy, but I love it.

0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:06.679
<v Speaker 3>I love a lot of things.

0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:08.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I love a lot of cheesy.

0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:09.600
<v Speaker 3>So what do you always say?

0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:11.080
<v Speaker 2>What everybody corny?

0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.440
<v Speaker 3>Everybody corny? When you embrace that, yeah, it's all okay.

0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:16.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, once you realize you hang out, he probably surprised.

0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:18.119
<v Speaker 2>You're like, oh, man, I was hanging out these people

0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:19.880
<v Speaker 2>I thought were whatever, cool, tough with it, and they're

0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.000
<v Speaker 2>like they were just because you know why I hung

0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:23.639
<v Speaker 2>out with everybody? Everybody corny?

0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:28.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah exactly, So the biblio Dick he corny too. Smith,

0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:31.199
<v Speaker 3>the owner of the bookstore. He was impressed by the

0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:34.120
<v Speaker 3>boy's curiosity, so he would let him into the rare

0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:36.840
<v Speaker 3>book room at the store, and that's where Sanders got

0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:41.600
<v Speaker 3>to see first hand stuff like first edition Edgar Allan Poe,

0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:45.679
<v Speaker 3>the Rate. And so this is how he recalled it, quote,

0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:49.440
<v Speaker 3>I have always been a bookseller. I created Cosmic Aeroplane

0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:52.320
<v Speaker 3>Books out of Steve Jones's old hippie head shop in

0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:56.200
<v Speaker 3>nineteen seventy five, founded my own publishing company, Dream Garden

0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:59.120
<v Speaker 3>Press in nineteen eighty and I've been running Ken Sanders

0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:02.320
<v Speaker 3>Rare Bookstown Salt Lake City for the past twenty five years.

0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:05.000
<v Speaker 3>My dad joked that when my mom gave birth to me,

0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:07.280
<v Speaker 3>I was clutching a book. It's the only world I

0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:10.560
<v Speaker 3>ever wished to know. Wow, Yeah, I love this guy.

0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:11.040
<v Speaker 2>Cool.

0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:13.199
<v Speaker 3>So you take that love of books and then a

0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:15.560
<v Speaker 3>sense of justice and you get biblio Dick.

0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that that little bit of spider Man. I

0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:21.000
<v Speaker 2>can do this, Yes, example don't expect me to, but

0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:21.679
<v Speaker 2>I can do this.

0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:24.000
<v Speaker 3>So this is how he said quote. I would certainly

0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.040
<v Speaker 3>be the last person to deny that I'm obsessed with books.

0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:29.240
<v Speaker 3>If you want to say I'm obsessed with book thieves

0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:31.440
<v Speaker 3>as well. I probably wouldn't argue that point either.

0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, fair point.

0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:35.679
<v Speaker 3>So one time Sanders chased a book thief on foot

0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:38.200
<v Speaker 3>and then smashed their car window as they were attempting

0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.280
<v Speaker 3>to drive away. Like he does not play, Ye, Biblio

0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:42.120
<v Speaker 3>Dick does not play.

0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:45.119
<v Speaker 2>He's reminding me more and more of my friend exactly.

0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:48.879
<v Speaker 3>Sanders, driven by the love of books, justice detecting, he

0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.680
<v Speaker 3>coordinated a sting. Oh yes, so January twenty ninth, two

0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:54.920
<v Speaker 3>thousand and three. Gilky's now thirty four years old.

0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.639
<v Speaker 2>He got heel like he would bring in furries to

0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:00.359
<v Speaker 2>help him, Like you now, I like this guy. Do

0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:02.600
<v Speaker 2>you see the furries who did like the hacking recently,

0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:05.080
<v Speaker 2>there's like a team of furries who've been out there

0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:08.000
<v Speaker 2>like hacking all these like spaces like then, like shutting

0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:09.240
<v Speaker 2>things down and it doesn't matter.

0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:12.480
<v Speaker 3>They go, they put on a furry costume, like a costume.

0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're like amateur superhero furries. So there, their superhero

0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:17.040
<v Speaker 2>costume is a furry.

0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:18.359
<v Speaker 3>They just sweat it up.

0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:22.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, smells bad exactly. But I imagine like that

0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:24.440
<v Speaker 2>would be his kind of friends. You know, he could

0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:26.000
<v Speaker 2>like call a friend, his friend shows up and like

0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:28.560
<v Speaker 2>he's driving over to furry costume in a Honda Civic.

0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:31.679
<v Speaker 3>See. I didn't connect him to the furries, but that

0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:36.280
<v Speaker 3>same sense of like righteousness, like and like interest your

0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:39.320
<v Speaker 3>own way. Yeah, okay, I'll give it to you. So guilty.

0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:42.200
<v Speaker 3>Thirty four years old. January of two thousand and three,

0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:44.360
<v Speaker 3>he got on the phone and he called a rare

0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:50.360
<v Speaker 3>bookstore in Santa se California, San is So he ordered

0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:52.640
<v Speaker 3>up a rare edition of the Grapes of Wrath by

0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:57.240
<v Speaker 3>John Steinbeck, six thousand dollars out the door. So guys like, great,

0:22:57.280 --> 0:22:59.800
<v Speaker 3>can I get your credit card numbers? Like sure, it's one, two,

0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:04.359
<v Speaker 3>three for jan five, Potato six. Cool. Like what are

0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:06.919
<v Speaker 3>you going to pick this book up, mister page r

0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:09.600
<v Speaker 3>Bookington And he's like, oh, you know what, ship it

0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:12.680
<v Speaker 3>to my hotel in Palo Alto. It's like San Jose

0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:15.960
<v Speaker 3>and Palo Alto aren't that far apart. Palo Alto is

0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:19.360
<v Speaker 3>a lovely town that's been ruined by Facebook. Another tech nonsense.

0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:22.760
<v Speaker 3>That's another crime for another time. So ship it to

0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:26.280
<v Speaker 3>Palo Alto, he says. Little does he know the bookstore

0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:31.000
<v Speaker 3>in santase was working with Sanders the Biblio Dick. So

0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:33.080
<v Speaker 3>as soon as they got the call and it matched

0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:36.800
<v Speaker 3>all the other Hanky patterns, they alerted him and Biblio

0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:39.520
<v Speaker 3>Dick went right to the cops. That credit card number

0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:42.600
<v Speaker 3>they ran it stolen, So the cops they go to

0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:46.080
<v Speaker 3>the hotel and they wait and Guilkey he showed up

0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:49.880
<v Speaker 3>and the police nabbed him. He told him, dude, I'm

0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:53.840
<v Speaker 3>nothing but a transient, a mere drifter. Really yeah, yeah, no,

0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:56.720
<v Speaker 3>I just made that up.

0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:58.359
<v Speaker 2>I am nothing but a mere drifter.

0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:01.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to go to where there's like police activity

0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:03.399
<v Speaker 3>and just walk up to them and be like, I

0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:06.000
<v Speaker 3>am nothing. I am a mere transiend I'm mere drifter.

0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:08.080
<v Speaker 2>I want you to promise me that you've ever see

0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:11.440
<v Speaker 2>news cameras ever walk up and act like you saw

0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:14.040
<v Speaker 2>whatever the crime was, and start giving an impromptu interview

0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:14.800
<v Speaker 2>on camera.

0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:17.280
<v Speaker 3>Now, my grandfather, oh I want for my birthday, Elizabeth,

0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:20.040
<v Speaker 3>did you doing a on camera interview as a character.

0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:23.040
<v Speaker 3>My grandfather, when I was growing up, he would call

0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:24.720
<v Speaker 3>us at the house and be like, you gotta watch

0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:28.280
<v Speaker 3>Channel seven six o'clock news, and he's like, just watch

0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:31.840
<v Speaker 3>because he would see them doing like in San Francisco

0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:33.840
<v Speaker 3>he'd be you know, they'd be filming something like that,

0:24:34.200 --> 0:24:36.800
<v Speaker 3>and he would walk back and forth in the background. Yeah,

0:24:36.840 --> 0:24:39.040
<v Speaker 3>And we just watched him walk back and forth, back

0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:40.720
<v Speaker 3>and forth, and he'd be like, did you see me?

0:24:40.760 --> 0:24:43.600
<v Speaker 3>I'm like totally grand book. That's awesome anyway.

0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:45.480
<v Speaker 2>See, you got a family tradition double I do.

0:24:45.840 --> 0:24:48.760
<v Speaker 3>So I'm a I'm a TRANSI and the moondrifter h

0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:50.960
<v Speaker 3>And he's like, someone paid me twenty bucks to just

0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:52.800
<v Speaker 3>pick up a book. I don't know what it's about,

0:24:52.800 --> 0:24:53.879
<v Speaker 3>but I'll take twenty bucks.

0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:54.120
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:56.160
<v Speaker 3>So the police let him go, but then they followed

0:24:56.240 --> 0:24:59.200
<v Speaker 3>him to where he said the exchange point was going

0:24:59.280 --> 0:25:01.080
<v Speaker 3>to be, you know, the like I'm supposed to pick

0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:02.679
<v Speaker 3>up this book and take it over here to this

0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:06.000
<v Speaker 3>Wiener Schnitzel or whatever. No one shows up, so they

0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:09.679
<v Speaker 3>arrest him. He gets booked for credit card fraud and

0:25:09.720 --> 0:25:12.679
<v Speaker 3>grand theft. And because of this, a search warrant was

0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:16.080
<v Speaker 3>issued for his apartment on Treasure Island in San Francisco Bay.

0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:17.240
<v Speaker 2>And where is that, Elizabeth.

0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:20.240
<v Speaker 3>It's a fake island. It's landfill. It's a fake island.

0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:22.680
<v Speaker 3>It was built for the nineteen thirty nine Golden Gate

0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:25.840
<v Speaker 3>International exposition, the World's Fair. It's in the middle. It's

0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:27.960
<v Speaker 3>at the midpoint of the Bay Bridge that connects San

0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:31.399
<v Speaker 3>Francisco to its better half. Oakland t I as we

0:25:31.480 --> 0:25:33.480
<v Speaker 3>call it, or as I call it, or as no

0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:36.960
<v Speaker 3>one calls it. It's attached to a real island. You're

0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:42.399
<v Speaker 3>a buena. It was a military base top Island, Traysure,

0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:45.840
<v Speaker 3>I call it Treysure Island. It was a giant film

0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:50.360
<v Speaker 3>stage at one point. Right now it's been developed out

0:25:50.359 --> 0:25:52.639
<v Speaker 3>with housing and little dude had an apartment there. So

0:25:52.680 --> 0:25:54.720
<v Speaker 3>when the cops get into his place, he.

0:25:54.760 --> 0:25:58.359
<v Speaker 2>Lived in the middle of a bridge on a fake

0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:00.240
<v Speaker 2>If you have to take a bridge to leave house

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:00.760
<v Speaker 2>in either.

0:26:00.600 --> 0:26:01.679
<v Speaker 3>Direction, whatever you're going to do.

0:26:01.760 --> 0:26:02.959
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if you want to go east, you gotta take

0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:03.560
<v Speaker 2>the bridge twice.

0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:07.600
<v Speaker 3>Yep, exactly. So they go in and they find twenty

0:26:07.640 --> 0:26:11.600
<v Speaker 3>six confirmed stolen rare books, and then they found way

0:26:11.760 --> 0:26:14.679
<v Speaker 3>more rare books that they thought are likely stolen, but

0:26:14.720 --> 0:26:17.240
<v Speaker 3>they didn't have evidence for those, so they you know,

0:26:17.640 --> 0:26:19.399
<v Speaker 3>left and b where Jesus flaying him. But they got

0:26:19.400 --> 0:26:21.560
<v Speaker 3>the twenty six that were like, okay, these were actually

0:26:21.760 --> 0:26:24.520
<v Speaker 3>reported stolen, so guilty. He told the police that he

0:26:24.560 --> 0:26:27.400
<v Speaker 3>was unemployed, and he had no place of residence, which

0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:29.600
<v Speaker 3>is surprising since they were to his apartment.

0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:30.040
<v Speaker 2>Since they're in his house.

0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:35.240
<v Speaker 3>And then he threw another supreods all your stuff, you

0:26:35.359 --> 0:26:39.800
<v Speaker 3>have a house, so like queen for a day. So

0:26:40.160 --> 0:26:45.359
<v Speaker 3>he posted bail for fifteen thousand dollars and so where okay,

0:26:45.359 --> 0:26:48.240
<v Speaker 3>where'd you get that? Then off he goes, Yeah, off

0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:50.920
<v Speaker 3>he goes. So the cops they keep their fingers crossed

0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:52.800
<v Speaker 3>that he's going to show up for his hearing scheduled

0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:54.720
<v Speaker 3>for February eighteenth, two thousand and three.

0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:57.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to take a flyer and say he did not.

0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:00.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he did not. He did not. So we have

0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:05.720
<v Speaker 3>we have this fantastic tension with Gilkey the Fraudster book

0:27:05.760 --> 0:27:10.199
<v Speaker 3>thief and Sanders the Unstoppable biblio dick. Oh yes, I

0:27:10.240 --> 0:27:12.600
<v Speaker 3>think we need to add a new character up the

0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:16.920
<v Speaker 3>action of attention. Can I give you Alison Hoover Bartlett.

0:27:17.760 --> 0:27:20.640
<v Speaker 3>I know Bartlett. She's a journalist. She wrote a book

0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:23.960
<v Speaker 3>called The Man Who Loved Books Too Much. Yeah, she

0:27:24.119 --> 0:27:26.440
<v Speaker 3>saw this crazy thing playing out and she not only

0:27:26.440 --> 0:27:29.280
<v Speaker 3>wrote about it but inserted herself into the story too.

0:27:31.080 --> 0:27:32.080
<v Speaker 2>Joists Oh god.

0:27:31.960 --> 0:27:35.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Bartlett said quote, we were all tenacious hunters. Guilkey

0:27:35.840 --> 0:27:38.720
<v Speaker 3>for books, Sanders for thieves, and me for both of

0:27:38.760 --> 0:27:39.440
<v Speaker 3>their stories.

0:27:39.840 --> 0:27:40.679
<v Speaker 2>Me for the story.

0:27:40.880 --> 0:27:45.000
<v Speaker 3>So Bartlett is sympathetic to Guilkey. She even compares them

0:27:45.040 --> 0:27:45.920
<v Speaker 3>to mister Rogers.

0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:49.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, they both like sweaters. I suppose they got a

0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:51.360
<v Speaker 2>comfortable shoe thing going on.

0:27:52.080 --> 0:27:56.919
<v Speaker 3>Railway to a magical world. So here's her assessment of

0:27:56.920 --> 0:27:59.960
<v Speaker 3>the biblio dick though quote when people steal from anyone

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:03.199
<v Speaker 3>in the trade, Ken Sanders feels an almost personal attack

0:28:03.240 --> 0:28:05.480
<v Speaker 3>on him, and he wants to do anything he can

0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:08.280
<v Speaker 3>to catch these guys. He is determined to catch book

0:28:08.320 --> 0:28:11.040
<v Speaker 3>thieves as guilty was in stealing the books.

0:28:11.560 --> 0:28:11.919
<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

0:28:12.280 --> 0:28:13.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I think it's a bad read. I

0:28:13.560 --> 0:28:16.640
<v Speaker 2>think that he's more determined. You're selling him short totally.

0:28:17.080 --> 0:28:20.560
<v Speaker 3>So Bartlett spent lots of time with Guilkey trying to

0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:24.720
<v Speaker 3>understand his motivations. Apparently he used the term quote getting

0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:27.280
<v Speaker 3>things for free when he talked about his thefts. I

0:28:27.320 --> 0:28:32.280
<v Speaker 3>got this book for free library box, someone handed it

0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:35.120
<v Speaker 3>to him. He also complained how he quote didn't want

0:28:35.200 --> 0:28:37.920
<v Speaker 3>like to spend his own money. Yeah, no kidding, right,

0:28:38.000 --> 0:28:40.400
<v Speaker 3>So me neither kid, But what you know, this is life.

0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:44.720
<v Speaker 3>Bartlett figured that guilty quote actually stole for love the

0:28:44.800 --> 0:28:49.560
<v Speaker 3>love of rare books. That is so apparently rare book

0:28:49.560 --> 0:28:52.400
<v Speaker 3>theft is actually more common than fine art theft.

0:28:52.640 --> 0:28:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, more access.

0:28:54.360 --> 0:28:57.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and forgery is also popular, which makes sense. So

0:28:58.040 --> 0:29:01.400
<v Speaker 3>like there aren't crazy minting marks and seals on old books,

0:29:01.400 --> 0:29:03.440
<v Speaker 3>and the materials aren't too hard to source, like if

0:29:03.440 --> 0:29:06.640
<v Speaker 3>you can find old stock of stuff like but when

0:29:06.640 --> 0:29:09.760
<v Speaker 3>I talk about the forgery, here's an example. The Great

0:29:09.800 --> 0:29:12.680
<v Speaker 3>Gatsby without a dust jacket, like a first edition no

0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:15.880
<v Speaker 3>dust jacket is worth one hundred and fifty bucks. Throw

0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:18.600
<v Speaker 3>an original dust jacket on that puppy and you're looking

0:29:18.640 --> 0:29:21.640
<v Speaker 3>at four thousand dollars. So thieves are going to want

0:29:21.640 --> 0:29:23.120
<v Speaker 3>to conjure up some old looking books.

0:29:23.280 --> 0:29:25.680
<v Speaker 2>You've got to stop getting rid of my dust jackets.

0:29:25.760 --> 0:29:27.800
<v Speaker 3>That's what I'm missing the moral of the story.

0:29:27.880 --> 0:29:30.040
<v Speaker 2>And also what about when I put in the fake

0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:33.160
<v Speaker 2>signature autograph from the author? Should I be doing that?

0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:33.640
<v Speaker 2>Is that good?

0:29:33.680 --> 0:29:36.160
<v Speaker 3>You just got to want to source older ink. You

0:29:36.200 --> 0:29:40.080
<v Speaker 3>want to make sure that you're using the time contemporary materials.

0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:43.480
<v Speaker 3>Just it's easy. So back to guilty, he eventually went

0:29:43.520 --> 0:29:45.680
<v Speaker 3>to trial. He did show up. He didn't plead out

0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:48.280
<v Speaker 3>during his trial. You know, he claimed to be innocent,

0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:51.400
<v Speaker 3>but at the same time he's telling everything to bartlet

0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:54.600
<v Speaker 3>So over the course of a year after the sting.

0:29:55.080 --> 0:29:59.480
<v Speaker 3>He then eventually pleads guilty to conspiracy, grand theft, identity theft,

0:29:59.520 --> 0:30:01.880
<v Speaker 3>credit card theft, and possession of stolen property.

0:30:01.920 --> 0:30:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Did they just run out of charges? Well, that's all

0:30:04.440 --> 0:30:05.560
<v Speaker 2>we got. The book is done, bro.

0:30:05.760 --> 0:30:09.959
<v Speaker 3>He stole like about two hundred thousand dollars worth of books,

0:30:11.040 --> 0:30:13.160
<v Speaker 3>two hundred thousand dollars with the books mostly inner around

0:30:13.200 --> 0:30:16.040
<v Speaker 3>San Francisco between nineteen ninety nine and two thousand and three.

0:30:16.560 --> 0:30:21.520
<v Speaker 3>So he gets sentenced to eighteen months in San Quentin Prison. Yeah,

0:30:21.560 --> 0:30:23.800
<v Speaker 3>which is a pretty that has a pretty robust library.

0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:26.600
<v Speaker 2>As far as that's actually, I've.

0:30:26.000 --> 0:30:28.880
<v Speaker 3>Been in San Quentin before. Yeah, it's you know, looks

0:30:28.880 --> 0:30:31.840
<v Speaker 3>like a prison from the thirties. It's crazy views outside,

0:30:31.920 --> 0:30:34.440
<v Speaker 3>spectacular right on the bay. Did you know that there's

0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:37.080
<v Speaker 3>actually a college located inside the prison.

0:30:37.440 --> 0:30:39.680
<v Speaker 2>I did know that, Elizabeth, because you told me.

0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:44.720
<v Speaker 3>It's called Mount tamil Pias College. It's an independent, nonprofit,

0:30:44.840 --> 0:30:48.000
<v Speaker 3>actual college in a prison. It's not connected. It's like

0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:52.280
<v Speaker 3>not a state college. The professors are all volunteers from

0:30:52.320 --> 0:30:56.520
<v Speaker 3>places like Callan Stanford's amazing, so look it up. Guilkey,

0:30:56.800 --> 0:30:57.920
<v Speaker 3>he cooled his heels in sand Do.

0:30:58.240 --> 0:30:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Have a podcast?

0:30:59.400 --> 0:31:04.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Houseley, So Gilkey, he's in San Quentin. He gets

0:31:04.880 --> 0:31:08.760
<v Speaker 3>released on parole less than two years later. And what

0:31:08.800 --> 0:31:09.800
<v Speaker 3>did you do when he got out?

0:31:10.160 --> 0:31:11.080
<v Speaker 2>Started stealing books?

0:31:11.800 --> 0:31:12.040
<v Speaker 4>Bee?

0:31:12.400 --> 0:31:13.640
<v Speaker 3>Hey Bartlett? It was it.

0:31:13.720 --> 0:31:14.400
<v Speaker 2>What's that girl?

0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:14.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:31:14.800 --> 0:31:16.920
<v Speaker 2>So Bartlett, I couldn't stop thinking about you.

0:31:17.080 --> 0:31:19.160
<v Speaker 3>Bartlett asks him, like, what are you going to do

0:31:19.200 --> 0:31:22.400
<v Speaker 3>for a job, and he says, quote work. Actually they

0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:26.600
<v Speaker 3>do have an opening at a bookstore. Like, oh, your horror,

0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:29.920
<v Speaker 3>you nave So they did go to a bookstore together though, okay,

0:31:29.920 --> 0:31:30.800
<v Speaker 3>and not for a job.

0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:31.640
<v Speaker 2>Search a date.

0:31:32.200 --> 0:31:36.800
<v Speaker 3>There is a date, sharn close. I want you to

0:31:36.840 --> 0:31:40.400
<v Speaker 3>picture it. Yes, you are John Crichton, owner of the

0:31:40.520 --> 0:31:44.440
<v Speaker 3>brick Row Bookshop in San Francisco. It's founded in nineteen fifteen.

0:31:44.520 --> 0:31:47.840
<v Speaker 3>The brick Row one of the oldest antiquarian book businesses

0:31:47.840 --> 0:31:52.040
<v Speaker 3>in the whole United States. Today it's quiet and you're

0:31:52.080 --> 0:31:55.200
<v Speaker 3>behind the counter organizing a new batch of small Victorian

0:31:55.240 --> 0:31:58.680
<v Speaker 3>books you picked up recently. Charming little tomes no bigger

0:31:58.720 --> 0:32:02.040
<v Speaker 3>than your hand, each with beautifully embossed art new vague covers.

0:32:02.560 --> 0:32:05.960
<v Speaker 3>You have KCSM, the local jazz station playing quietly in

0:32:05.960 --> 0:32:09.160
<v Speaker 3>the background. The bell dings as the door opens, and

0:32:09.160 --> 0:32:12.560
<v Speaker 3>two people enter your shop, A shorter, balding man and

0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:15.760
<v Speaker 3>a pleasant looking woman Guilty and Bartlett for those of

0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:18.360
<v Speaker 3>us in the know, you're currently not in the know

0:32:18.760 --> 0:32:22.840
<v Speaker 3>Zarin aka John Crichton. So these two they chat quietly

0:32:22.880 --> 0:32:24.840
<v Speaker 3>to each other as they enter the store and begin

0:32:24.920 --> 0:32:27.720
<v Speaker 3>to look around. The guy looks familiar, but you can't

0:32:27.760 --> 0:32:30.480
<v Speaker 3>really place him. You ask if they need any help.

0:32:30.600 --> 0:32:33.120
<v Speaker 3>They tell you they're just browsing. Where do you know

0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:35.560
<v Speaker 3>that guy from it's driving you crazy? Does he live

0:32:35.600 --> 0:32:38.200
<v Speaker 3>in the neighborhood? But there's like something about him that's

0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:38.640
<v Speaker 3>giving you.

0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Bad vibes, say my bowling league in the seventies.

0:32:41.480 --> 0:32:44.040
<v Speaker 3>But then that's it. You got it. A couple of

0:32:44.120 --> 0:32:47.360
<v Speaker 3>years ago you sold a copy of Hardy's The Mayor

0:32:47.400 --> 0:32:50.880
<v Speaker 3>of Casterbridge to a guy. Of course, great sale, twenty

0:32:50.880 --> 0:32:53.920
<v Speaker 3>five hundred dollars. Then a month after that you got

0:32:53.920 --> 0:32:57.000
<v Speaker 3>a call someone was complaining of a twenty five hundred

0:32:57.000 --> 0:32:59.160
<v Speaker 3>dollars charge on their credit card, even though they'd never

0:32:59.160 --> 0:33:03.000
<v Speaker 3>been to brick rope. For that is the castor bridge

0:33:03.040 --> 0:33:07.200
<v Speaker 3>guy man f that guy, you think, so you begin

0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:12.200
<v Speaker 3>to follow the pair around. Gilkey loudly complains about rare booksellers.

0:33:12.600 --> 0:33:15.200
<v Speaker 3>He moans about how the first editions he bought weren't

0:33:15.200 --> 0:33:18.520
<v Speaker 3>first editions after all, how books get described as having

0:33:18.640 --> 0:33:21.720
<v Speaker 3>dust jackets but they arrive naked. He goes on and

0:33:21.760 --> 0:33:25.000
<v Speaker 3>on about how antiquarian booksellers are all cheaters and liars.

0:33:25.560 --> 0:33:28.160
<v Speaker 3>The woman with him is like cringing. She looks like

0:33:28.200 --> 0:33:31.640
<v Speaker 3>she's dying inside. You're made to tough stuff. You don't

0:33:31.680 --> 0:33:35.320
<v Speaker 3>survive in the cutthroat, scheming, ultra violent, rare book world

0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:41.000
<v Speaker 3>without having some grit. It's you just keep following him around,

0:33:41.080 --> 0:33:43.520
<v Speaker 3>waiting for him to make a mistake, try and pocket

0:33:43.520 --> 0:33:45.840
<v Speaker 3>a book or something. That's when you're gonna go full

0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:48.040
<v Speaker 3>John Wick on the guy. He doesn't know about the

0:33:48.080 --> 0:33:51.640
<v Speaker 3>network of book assassins that you have, or quick staple

0:33:51.840 --> 0:33:55.000
<v Speaker 3>the upstairs filled with tattooed telephone operators waiting to put

0:33:55.000 --> 0:33:57.200
<v Speaker 3>a price on this guy's head. Or maybe that's all

0:33:57.240 --> 0:34:01.160
<v Speaker 3>just fantasy. Maybe whatever, you're tailing guy and you're enjoying

0:34:01.200 --> 0:34:04.600
<v Speaker 3>the jazz playing in the background. Then finally they leave

0:34:04.640 --> 0:34:07.280
<v Speaker 3>the store, the bell on the on the door bidding them,

0:34:07.280 --> 0:34:09.600
<v Speaker 3>I do you get on the phone? Who are you

0:34:09.600 --> 0:34:15.080
<v Speaker 3>gonna call? Kenny Sanders Biblio dick himself. Let's take a break.

0:34:15.320 --> 0:34:17.600
<v Speaker 3>When we come back, we'll see how this butting friendship

0:34:17.600 --> 0:34:43.480
<v Speaker 3>between the journalist and the thief develops. Welcome, what's up, hi, Bartlett? Yes,

0:34:43.880 --> 0:34:45.640
<v Speaker 3>he went with Gilkey to the scene in one of

0:34:45.680 --> 0:34:48.759
<v Speaker 3>his crimes, and he peacocked around the place, rubbing it

0:34:48.760 --> 0:34:52.479
<v Speaker 3>in dude's face. In your face. Darn ever, he rubbed

0:34:52.520 --> 0:34:56.960
<v Speaker 3>it in your face. So when Sanders found out about

0:34:56.960 --> 0:34:59.960
<v Speaker 3>this visit to brick Row, he was pissed. But he

0:35:00.239 --> 0:35:03.520
<v Speaker 3>was so pissed he dashed off a strongly worded email

0:35:03.680 --> 0:35:04.640
<v Speaker 3>to Bartlett.

0:35:04.520 --> 0:35:07.160
<v Speaker 2>Downed a glass of pepsi, and said that man has

0:35:07.200 --> 0:35:07.800
<v Speaker 2>it coming.

0:35:08.520 --> 0:35:10.880
<v Speaker 3>Quote, I don't want to hear about your sick games.

0:35:10.880 --> 0:35:14.960
<v Speaker 3>Ever again, he's not having it. So Bartlet, though, just

0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:18.200
<v Speaker 3>kept going deeper and deeper into the enigma that was Guilkey.

0:35:18.920 --> 0:35:21.520
<v Speaker 3>She visited with his family and was told by his

0:35:21.600 --> 0:35:24.880
<v Speaker 3>mother quote, I mean it's innocent. Maybe he was just

0:35:24.920 --> 0:35:27.360
<v Speaker 3>wandering around or looking around with a book, and he

0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:29.240
<v Speaker 3>must have forgot about it and then he got caught.

0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Ma'am, mom, come on, come.

0:35:32.680 --> 0:35:38.719
<v Speaker 3>On, missus Gilkey. She showed Bartlet Gilkey's bedroom quote. His

0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:41.760
<v Speaker 3>shoes were neatly lined up on the floor, and artwork

0:35:41.800 --> 0:35:44.520
<v Speaker 3>he had collected hung on the walls. I made a

0:35:44.560 --> 0:35:47.000
<v Speaker 3>move to leave, but his mother motioned toward the closet,

0:35:47.040 --> 0:35:50.160
<v Speaker 3>which she opened. See how he keeps his things neat,

0:35:50.320 --> 0:35:54.640
<v Speaker 3>she said. And look more books, Yes, more books, stacks

0:35:54.719 --> 0:35:57.160
<v Speaker 3>and stacks of them. Their spines faced the back of

0:35:57.200 --> 0:36:00.400
<v Speaker 3>the closet, as if in hiding. This seemed the most private,

0:36:00.440 --> 0:36:03.440
<v Speaker 3>most intimate corner of Guilkey's room. But instead of looking

0:36:03.440 --> 0:36:05.640
<v Speaker 3>inside to see if I recognize any of the books

0:36:05.640 --> 0:36:08.680
<v Speaker 3>he had stolen, I turned away. I was afraid of

0:36:08.719 --> 0:36:10.440
<v Speaker 3>what I might find if I drew the books from

0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:13.040
<v Speaker 3>the pile, what degree of crime and what degree of

0:36:13.080 --> 0:36:15.759
<v Speaker 3>responsibility I might bear in knowing the books were there.

0:36:16.360 --> 0:36:21.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm less of an investigative journalist and more of an accomplice. Yeah. Wow,

0:36:22.120 --> 0:36:25.080
<v Speaker 2>So so he's living with his mom basically in his

0:36:25.200 --> 0:36:27.480
<v Speaker 2>little boy lifestyle, and his mom I want to see

0:36:27.480 --> 0:36:29.320
<v Speaker 2>his room, she like. I made the bed so please

0:36:29.360 --> 0:36:30.960
<v Speaker 2>forgive this, and then yeah, the whole like, do you

0:36:31.000 --> 0:36:32.920
<v Speaker 2>want to see my boy's room? And then she's say

0:36:33.120 --> 0:36:36.239
<v Speaker 2>the books all turned backwards, no spines forward, and she's like,

0:36:36.280 --> 0:36:38.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to touch the book pile. What did

0:36:38.200 --> 0:36:39.440
<v Speaker 2>she glean from this trip?

0:36:39.680 --> 0:36:42.400
<v Speaker 3>A book? She wrote a book from it. Yeah, So

0:36:42.560 --> 0:36:45.680
<v Speaker 3>Guilkey and Bartlett they keep meeting for interviews over the

0:36:45.719 --> 0:36:46.800
<v Speaker 3>course of three years.

0:36:47.000 --> 0:36:50.319
<v Speaker 2>Wow and slow dating totally.

0:36:50.080 --> 0:36:53.960
<v Speaker 3>Not speak dating. Per book reviewer Joel Hyde quote, it

0:36:54.080 --> 0:36:57.000
<v Speaker 3>is easy to blame Bartlett for not cooperating more in

0:36:57.040 --> 0:37:00.520
<v Speaker 3>the apprehension of a thief, for embarking instead the fool's

0:37:00.600 --> 0:37:03.400
<v Speaker 3>errand of trying to understand his heart. It is easy

0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:06.280
<v Speaker 3>to blame her for blurring the distinction between the desire

0:37:06.320 --> 0:37:09.400
<v Speaker 3>to possess books and the desire to steal them, not

0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:12.280
<v Speaker 3>to mention the distinction between the desire to possess books

0:37:12.280 --> 0:37:15.000
<v Speaker 3>and the love of them. And then he goes on.

0:37:15.480 --> 0:37:19.719
<v Speaker 3>Every profession affords ethical dilemmas, and being reminded of how

0:37:19.719 --> 0:37:22.800
<v Speaker 3>difficult and necessary it is to struggle with those dilemmas

0:37:23.120 --> 0:37:25.839
<v Speaker 3>is of some value. It just isn't anywhere near as

0:37:25.920 --> 0:37:27.719
<v Speaker 3>valuable as it would be to get back books that

0:37:27.760 --> 0:37:28.520
<v Speaker 3>were stolen from.

0:37:28.440 --> 0:37:34.080
<v Speaker 2>Us exactly, so you can do both. You can return

0:37:34.120 --> 0:37:35.280
<v Speaker 2>the books and then wonder.

0:37:35.520 --> 0:37:39.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Guilkey, he'd been hard to catch because rather than

0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:43.319
<v Speaker 3>resell the pieces he acquired, he hoarded them for himself.

0:37:43.200 --> 0:37:44.279
<v Speaker 2>And they never had the markets again.

0:37:44.400 --> 0:37:50.040
<v Speaker 3>Right, So it's totally true. According to biblio Dick, these

0:37:50.120 --> 0:37:54.440
<v Speaker 3>are iconic, valuable books that everybody knows and they're very distinctive.

0:37:54.719 --> 0:37:57.040
<v Speaker 3>But I could never find any trace in the marketplace

0:37:57.040 --> 0:37:59.759
<v Speaker 3>of them resurfacing or being sold, so it's not this

0:37:59.800 --> 0:38:01.319
<v Speaker 3>is like, oh, he's living on this.

0:38:02.200 --> 0:38:03.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:38:04.000 --> 0:38:07.000
<v Speaker 3>Guilkey confessed to Bartlett that what he really wanted was

0:38:07.040 --> 0:38:10.040
<v Speaker 3>a rare book collection that would be worth millions all

0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:10.840
<v Speaker 3>to himself.

0:38:10.960 --> 0:38:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Totally. He's like that collector in the Twilight Zone, or

0:38:13.640 --> 0:38:16.879
<v Speaker 2>his glasses break, or he's got all the books.

0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:20.440
<v Speaker 3>It's like, yeah, so Bartlett, She wrote that Guilkey was

0:38:20.480 --> 0:38:23.400
<v Speaker 3>obsessed with quote the image of an English gentleman with

0:38:23.480 --> 0:38:27.360
<v Speaker 3>a grand library, and Bartlett said, quote he told me

0:38:27.440 --> 0:38:30.080
<v Speaker 3>he wanted to have a fine gentleman's library, and he'd

0:38:30.080 --> 0:38:32.040
<v Speaker 3>have a big oak desk with a globe on it,

0:38:32.120 --> 0:38:34.799
<v Speaker 3>and he would wear a smoking jacket. People would look

0:38:34.800 --> 0:38:36.880
<v Speaker 3>at his book collection and see that this was a

0:38:36.920 --> 0:38:40.200
<v Speaker 3>man of culture, an aeradype man, and that's what really

0:38:40.239 --> 0:38:40.759
<v Speaker 3>drove him.

0:38:40.840 --> 0:38:43.640
<v Speaker 2>So he wanted to be Thomas Jefferson politics. He wanted

0:38:43.640 --> 0:38:46.320
<v Speaker 2>to be Richie rich You want to Ben Franklin. He

0:38:46.320 --> 0:38:47.879
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be one of those guys with a big He.

0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:50.880
<v Speaker 3>Wanted the world to see him as cultured and debonair.

0:38:51.360 --> 0:38:53.800
<v Speaker 3>And that's what he thought would be his ideal self.

0:38:53.880 --> 0:38:55.120
<v Speaker 2>Books that smelled of leather.

0:38:55.160 --> 0:38:59.319
<v Speaker 3>And so, according to Bartlett, quote, he has the love

0:38:59.320 --> 0:39:01.600
<v Speaker 3>of books, but he also has a love of what

0:39:01.680 --> 0:39:03.279
<v Speaker 3>the ownership of books.

0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:04.720
<v Speaker 2>Says, Yes, what it means to others.

0:39:04.800 --> 0:39:07.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, just like collectors talk about their books on the

0:39:07.040 --> 0:39:09.359
<v Speaker 3>shelves is kind of a memoir that reflects on who

0:39:09.400 --> 0:39:12.120
<v Speaker 3>they are and what their interests are. Sure, Guilty's no different,

0:39:12.440 --> 0:39:15.640
<v Speaker 3>he told Bartlett. Quote, there's a sense of admiration you're

0:39:15.640 --> 0:39:18.719
<v Speaker 3>going to get from other people. So he's doing it,

0:39:18.800 --> 0:39:19.800
<v Speaker 3>you know, for four others.

0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:21.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, collecting books that no one ever will see. But

0:39:21.880 --> 0:39:24.319
<v Speaker 2>he's doing it so that he could imagine that other

0:39:24.440 --> 0:39:28.600
<v Speaker 2>people would find him more interesting, his imagination of others

0:39:28.600 --> 0:39:29.480
<v Speaker 2>would perceive them.

0:39:29.520 --> 0:39:31.680
<v Speaker 3>So she said that Guilty was trying to build an

0:39:31.680 --> 0:39:34.360
<v Speaker 3>identity for himself, and he was trying to keep it

0:39:34.880 --> 0:39:37.279
<v Speaker 3>in the world. Yeah, but guilty said quote I never

0:39:37.360 --> 0:39:40.080
<v Speaker 3>take books from libraries, yet many people do and then

0:39:40.160 --> 0:39:42.320
<v Speaker 3>sell them at large profits. That would be stealing.

0:39:43.000 --> 0:39:45.080
<v Speaker 2>I think they're both stealing. I think you can qualify.

0:39:45.560 --> 0:39:47.280
<v Speaker 2>It's not like only one of them can be stealing.

0:39:48.080 --> 0:39:52.760
<v Speaker 3>So most of his thefts remain unrecovered, and they're believed

0:39:52.760 --> 0:39:56.240
<v Speaker 3>to be in a storage unit somewhere in northern California.

0:39:56.840 --> 0:39:59.040
<v Speaker 3>Let's get hunting, let's figure this out.

0:39:59.120 --> 0:40:01.160
<v Speaker 2>You could probably find it. I would bet on you.

0:40:00.960 --> 0:40:03.000
<v Speaker 3>I could probably find it. So the full extent of

0:40:03.040 --> 0:40:07.520
<v Speaker 3>his thefts and the exact whereabouts the whereabouts of all

0:40:07.560 --> 0:40:11.640
<v Speaker 3>the books he stole totally unknown. Some think that the

0:40:11.680 --> 0:40:17.400
<v Speaker 3>mysterious storage unit contains not just rare books, but like autographs, prints, maps, stamps,

0:40:17.440 --> 0:40:25.239
<v Speaker 3>comic books, like Hollywood memorabilia, coins, maybe Guyeri's Lamba Yeah yeah,

0:40:25.280 --> 0:40:26.319
<v Speaker 3>and like since there isn't a.

0:40:26.280 --> 0:40:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Set on like basically a lottery ticket, and people know

0:40:30.480 --> 0:40:32.919
<v Speaker 2>that he's alive and it's somewhere, yeah, I feel for him.

0:40:33.040 --> 0:40:37.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So there's not a specific list of actual items

0:40:37.800 --> 0:40:39.640
<v Speaker 3>that have been stolen. And are believed to be in

0:40:39.640 --> 0:40:42.200
<v Speaker 3>the unit, So even if they knew where it was,

0:40:42.239 --> 0:40:44.680
<v Speaker 3>they don't have probable cause for a warrant. A judge

0:40:44.680 --> 0:40:47.880
<v Speaker 3>would never sign up. H Bartlett had all this access

0:40:47.880 --> 0:40:51.560
<v Speaker 3>to Guilkey, and Sanders, who'd never actually met him, had

0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:54.359
<v Speaker 3>a request. He told Bartlett, quote, ask him to tell

0:40:54.400 --> 0:40:56.560
<v Speaker 3>you the location of his storage unit where he hides

0:40:56.600 --> 0:40:58.800
<v Speaker 3>the books. It must be near his home in Modesto.

0:41:00.120 --> 0:41:02.760
<v Speaker 3>Gives me a clue. Guilty refused. He heard that request,

0:41:02.880 --> 0:41:03.760
<v Speaker 3>was like no.

0:41:03.960 --> 0:41:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, He's like, are you kidding? Whatever reason I did all.

0:41:06.560 --> 0:41:08.560
<v Speaker 3>This, He's like, whatever, girl, Yeah, you're not mad.

0:41:08.640 --> 0:41:12.000
<v Speaker 2>You're not my mom. Only she can make me make

0:41:12.040 --> 0:41:13.080
<v Speaker 2>my shoes be straight.

0:41:15.040 --> 0:41:18.799
<v Speaker 3>I'm picturing Sanders biblio dick in his like film noir

0:41:18.960 --> 0:41:22.319
<v Speaker 3>office with theories and evidence and red string on the walls,

0:41:22.360 --> 0:41:24.320
<v Speaker 3>slamming his hand down on the desk when he hears this,

0:41:24.719 --> 0:41:28.320
<v Speaker 3>and then the furry at the desk and go for yeah.

0:41:28.120 --> 0:41:28.520
<v Speaker 2>You got it.

0:41:28.520 --> 0:41:31.120
<v Speaker 3>It's like, I'm so close to like triangulating the location.

0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:33.000
<v Speaker 3>Let me just call Elizabeth and we'll work on this.

0:41:33.040 --> 0:41:36.480
<v Speaker 3>It's amazing that it is a much better story, right.

0:41:36.520 --> 0:41:38.319
<v Speaker 3>I just imagine like a big lavender tale.

0:41:38.400 --> 0:41:43.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, like an NFL mascot that's sexier. Totally to

0:41:43.280 --> 0:41:44.880
<v Speaker 2>that Directionndy, what you want.

0:41:44.680 --> 0:41:46.560
<v Speaker 3>Well, this is what biblio Dick has to say.

0:41:46.640 --> 0:41:47.080
<v Speaker 4>Quote.

0:41:47.360 --> 0:41:50.279
<v Speaker 3>He has this irrational belief that he deserves to have

0:41:50.320 --> 0:41:53.279
<v Speaker 3>a fine library, and since he can't afford it, we

0:41:53.440 --> 0:41:55.440
<v Speaker 3>who are in the trade, who have all of these

0:41:55.520 --> 0:41:58.279
<v Speaker 3>lovely books, deserve to just give them to him, And

0:41:58.360 --> 0:42:01.160
<v Speaker 3>since we won't, it's his or ordained right to steal

0:42:01.200 --> 0:42:03.799
<v Speaker 3>them from us. He's a dirty little book thief and

0:42:03.840 --> 0:42:07.080
<v Speaker 3>there's nothing romantic about it. There's nothing noble about him.

0:42:07.360 --> 0:42:09.560
<v Speaker 3>He might have a passion for books, but his passion

0:42:09.600 --> 0:42:12.440
<v Speaker 3>is for thievery. As far as I'm concerned, he's the

0:42:12.480 --> 0:42:15.600
<v Speaker 3>man who loved to steal books too much. And that's

0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:18.640
<v Speaker 3>where you good. Then he's a dirty little book thief.

0:42:18.680 --> 0:42:19.839
<v Speaker 2>He ain't no Robin Hood no.

0:42:20.280 --> 0:42:23.680
<v Speaker 3>According to Bartlett, quote, he has absolutely no remorse for

0:42:23.719 --> 0:42:25.880
<v Speaker 3>his crimes. He told me the details of how he

0:42:25.960 --> 0:42:27.799
<v Speaker 3>went about it, which I described in the book, but

0:42:27.880 --> 0:42:30.160
<v Speaker 3>he feels that it was his right to take the books.

0:42:32.239 --> 0:42:35.920
<v Speaker 3>During a phone conversation, he told Bartlett that it's like

0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:39.399
<v Speaker 3>he feels like he's sixty percent wrong and forty percent right,

0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:43.239
<v Speaker 3>and that well, he said that like book dealers are

0:42:43.239 --> 0:42:45.680
<v Speaker 3>like keeping these books from the public, which like you

0:42:46.200 --> 0:42:47.040
<v Speaker 3>with shoving them.

0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:50.320
<v Speaker 2>In them from the public. They're offering them for sale

0:42:50.360 --> 0:42:51.040
<v Speaker 2>to the public.

0:42:53.480 --> 0:42:54.040
<v Speaker 4>These books.

0:42:54.040 --> 0:42:57.160
<v Speaker 3>One point, he said, quote, how am I supposed to

0:42:57.160 --> 0:42:59.520
<v Speaker 3>build my collection unless I'm like this multi millionaire?

0:43:00.239 --> 0:43:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, has he ever met a thought that actually followed

0:43:03.440 --> 0:43:05.479
<v Speaker 2>through on? Or did you always stop in the middle

0:43:05.480 --> 0:43:06.040
<v Speaker 2>and make a turn?

0:43:06.120 --> 0:43:07.440
<v Speaker 4>Apparently not so.

0:43:07.560 --> 0:43:11.480
<v Speaker 3>During two thousand and nine, a bookseller in Canada got

0:43:11.520 --> 0:43:14.160
<v Speaker 3>in touch with Sanders. She'd sold a book for five

0:43:14.239 --> 0:43:17.359
<v Speaker 3>hundred dollars, but the check was bad. Name on the check,

0:43:17.760 --> 0:43:22.160
<v Speaker 3>John Charles Gilkey, whoa chase was on He's back Fall

0:43:22.239 --> 0:43:24.320
<v Speaker 3>twenty ten. Gilkey gets arrested.

0:43:24.440 --> 0:43:26.479
<v Speaker 2>Oh so it wasn't like a copycat doing a little nod.

0:43:26.719 --> 0:43:28.919
<v Speaker 3>No, he was just put his actual name on a check.

0:43:29.360 --> 0:43:31.560
<v Speaker 2>That was like a loopan move. He like blaming someone else.

0:43:31.640 --> 0:43:34.279
<v Speaker 3>My god, that would be perfect Fall twenty ten. He

0:43:34.320 --> 0:43:38.400
<v Speaker 3>gets arrested, not for kiting checks, stealing credit card numbers

0:43:39.040 --> 0:43:41.160
<v Speaker 3>so that he get like a first edition of Ojy's

0:43:41.160 --> 0:43:45.480
<v Speaker 3>if I did it. No, he was arrested for threatening

0:43:45.520 --> 0:43:48.279
<v Speaker 3>to burn down a print gallery in San Francisco after

0:43:48.320 --> 0:43:50.400
<v Speaker 3>the manager declined to sell him an item.

0:43:51.000 --> 0:43:52.239
<v Speaker 2>See I'm telling you the boy I wrist.

0:43:52.640 --> 0:43:54.319
<v Speaker 3>I was going to say, the boy ain't right, Like

0:43:54.400 --> 0:43:57.680
<v Speaker 3>he just burned it all down. December fifteenth, twenty ten,

0:43:57.760 --> 0:44:00.560
<v Speaker 3>he gets arrested again in San Francisco trying to steal

0:44:00.560 --> 0:44:03.759
<v Speaker 3>two antique maps. Okay, I don't know what became of

0:44:03.760 --> 0:44:08.319
<v Speaker 3>those arrests. July of twenty eleven, John Waite the security

0:44:08.440 --> 0:44:14.359
<v Speaker 3>chair of a baa Antiquarian Booksellers Association of America. He

0:44:14.480 --> 0:44:18.839
<v Speaker 3>posted a circulation please be aware that convicted fraudster and

0:44:18.880 --> 0:44:22.319
<v Speaker 3>thief John Gilkey is operating once again, likely out of

0:44:22.360 --> 0:44:25.880
<v Speaker 3>northern California. And like the alarms went off and there

0:44:25.880 --> 0:44:27.319
<v Speaker 3>were people like, oh my god, put my pants on,

0:44:27.360 --> 0:44:30.399
<v Speaker 3>I got to do this on the phone. Totally, there's

0:44:30.440 --> 0:44:35.800
<v Speaker 3>a hustle, there's like network lights loading their weapons the continent. Totally.

0:44:35.800 --> 0:44:38.799
<v Speaker 3>That's all I keep saying with this. Antiquarian Booksellers is

0:44:38.840 --> 0:44:42.239
<v Speaker 3>like a complete John Wick universe in my head, but

0:44:42.400 --> 0:44:43.360
<v Speaker 3>not as ultra violent.

0:44:43.960 --> 0:44:45.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay, sure for you whatever for me.

0:44:47.000 --> 0:44:50.520
<v Speaker 3>Cartoon violence, Yeah, I love cartoon violence. A comic book

0:44:50.800 --> 0:44:54.319
<v Speaker 3>dealer in New York State is his latest victim. In

0:44:54.360 --> 0:44:57.240
<v Speaker 3>addition to rare books, he's moved on to print stamp

0:44:57.320 --> 0:44:58.000
<v Speaker 3>comics like.

0:44:58.160 --> 0:45:00.319
<v Speaker 2>She worked on LPs. Go Vinyl Right.

0:45:01.239 --> 0:45:03.840
<v Speaker 3>He was arrested late last year in San Francisco following

0:45:03.840 --> 0:45:07.319
<v Speaker 3>a parole violation, but he was released after he or

0:45:07.360 --> 0:45:09.799
<v Speaker 3>someone posted seventy five thousand dollars bail.

0:45:10.080 --> 0:45:10.799
<v Speaker 2>Bartlet.

0:45:11.160 --> 0:45:16.319
<v Speaker 3>This is this is the detail that's driving me nuts.

0:45:16.320 --> 0:45:20.120
<v Speaker 3>He's driving me modesto nuts. He's not selling the books

0:45:20.120 --> 0:45:25.600
<v Speaker 3>for cash. His family isn't rich, Bartlett. She wasn't there

0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:27.800
<v Speaker 3>for the first bail out, and she's not rich. Who's

0:45:27.800 --> 0:45:28.480
<v Speaker 3>bailing him out?

0:45:28.560 --> 0:45:30.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm telling you it's Bartlett's my guest.

0:45:30.800 --> 0:45:31.239
<v Speaker 3>Do you think so?

0:45:31.680 --> 0:45:33.600
<v Speaker 2>I think she loves it over that three years, but

0:45:33.640 --> 0:45:35.920
<v Speaker 2>a time I think she's like started to see something

0:45:35.920 --> 0:45:38.799
<v Speaker 2>in him. Maybe she's looking for book too. I don't know.

0:45:38.960 --> 0:45:42.719
<v Speaker 3>But he's skipped bail, of course, and there's an outstanding

0:45:42.719 --> 0:45:46.239
<v Speaker 3>warrant for his arrest and an ongoing San Francisco police investigation.

0:45:46.480 --> 0:45:50.279
<v Speaker 3>Really yeah, good luck with that. He basically disappeared, but

0:45:50.480 --> 0:45:55.719
<v Speaker 3>he's still active. So John Gilkey, if you're listening, you

0:45:55.800 --> 0:45:58.280
<v Speaker 3>are welcome to come on the podcast and tell your story.

0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:02.040
<v Speaker 3>We promise not to call Biblio Dick, although I probably will.

0:46:02.120 --> 0:46:07.040
<v Speaker 3>She will because amazing for her too. Biblio Dick, if

0:46:07.040 --> 0:46:09.399
<v Speaker 3>you want to come to hook it up, I want

0:46:09.440 --> 0:46:11.839
<v Speaker 3>to hear all your ridiculous crime story. I git one

0:46:11.840 --> 0:46:14.560
<v Speaker 3>hear your side, Gilkey, hit us up online. Let us

0:46:14.600 --> 0:46:16.520
<v Speaker 3>know you're still alive. Tell us what you're going to

0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:19.080
<v Speaker 3>steal next. Tell me where the where do you? Where's

0:46:19.080 --> 0:46:20.759
<v Speaker 3>your storage in case you need to ride? Do you

0:46:20.760 --> 0:46:22.040
<v Speaker 3>need to ride to your storage studio?

0:46:22.120 --> 0:46:23.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I mean I'm gonna be a modesta for a game.

0:46:23.880 --> 0:46:24.520
<v Speaker 2>We can go nuts.

0:46:26.760 --> 0:46:28.759
<v Speaker 3>I can take you anywhere, just I'll drive you there

0:46:29.200 --> 0:46:31.840
<v Speaker 3>as Aaron. What's your ridiculous takeaway?

0:46:32.440 --> 0:46:32.800
<v Speaker 4>Wow?

0:46:33.480 --> 0:46:37.359
<v Speaker 2>For this one, I think it's got to be that

0:46:37.800 --> 0:46:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Bartlett thought that she would learn anything from this hanging

0:46:41.040 --> 0:46:43.279
<v Speaker 2>out with him for all these years. Because everything the

0:46:43.360 --> 0:46:45.560
<v Speaker 2>quotes you told me and what we've learned about him,

0:46:46.200 --> 0:46:48.920
<v Speaker 2>you're telling of his story, I did learn something. I

0:46:49.000 --> 0:46:51.320
<v Speaker 2>don't think we learned anything from her version, because it

0:46:51.320 --> 0:46:54.040
<v Speaker 2>seems like her perspective was kind of skewed, if that

0:46:54.040 --> 0:46:56.840
<v Speaker 2>makes sense. So I feel it's kind of like ridiculous

0:46:56.840 --> 0:46:58.640
<v Speaker 2>that she spent so much time around a person that

0:46:58.719 --> 0:47:01.520
<v Speaker 2>she should have just been dating, and then apparently she

0:47:01.560 --> 0:47:03.520
<v Speaker 2>got a book out of it, you know, So I'm like, oh,

0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:04.040
<v Speaker 2>you missed.

0:47:04.200 --> 0:47:05.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's fat. I'm fast.

0:47:05.920 --> 0:47:08.439
<v Speaker 2>You're ridiculous takeaway. Thank you for I did not try

0:47:08.440 --> 0:47:09.640
<v Speaker 2>that sometimes, Okay, I will.

0:47:13.440 --> 0:47:16.799
<v Speaker 3>I'm fascinated by her and her getting sucked into this.

0:47:18.120 --> 0:47:21.239
<v Speaker 3>You know, it makes for a good story. Biblio Dick

0:47:21.800 --> 0:47:22.880
<v Speaker 3>hero of all heroes.

0:47:22.960 --> 0:47:24.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I love me a good Jack Mormon. I grew

0:47:24.840 --> 0:47:26.000
<v Speaker 2>up in a town with a lot of Mormons, and

0:47:26.040 --> 0:47:29.080
<v Speaker 2>the ones who are ex Mormons fascinating. Well, a lot

0:47:29.120 --> 0:47:31.680
<v Speaker 2>of strength of character going against all of your family

0:47:31.760 --> 0:47:33.960
<v Speaker 2>and your culture. And really I often like.

0:47:34.040 --> 0:47:37.239
<v Speaker 3>This guy's like so dedicated to books and literature, and

0:47:37.320 --> 0:47:40.560
<v Speaker 3>his investment in not just the value of the books

0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:43.640
<v Speaker 3>is like you know, commerce, but what they.

0:47:43.560 --> 0:47:46.719
<v Speaker 2>Mean and you know to others, not just to him.

0:47:46.560 --> 0:47:48.960
<v Speaker 3>Right, And when we're talking about like our top fives,

0:47:49.360 --> 0:47:52.360
<v Speaker 3>you think about what those books mean to us, and

0:47:52.400 --> 0:47:54.959
<v Speaker 3>that if you could have like first editions of those

0:47:55.040 --> 0:47:57.799
<v Speaker 3>or signed copies, how important that would be to you

0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:00.160
<v Speaker 3>and how connected you'd be because of the stories that

0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:03.120
<v Speaker 3>these writers have crafted. So if you want a first

0:48:03.239 --> 0:48:05.160
<v Speaker 3>edition signed driftwood.

0:48:04.760 --> 0:48:08.320
<v Speaker 2>That just about a second. If I had the first edition.

0:48:08.160 --> 0:48:11.520
<v Speaker 3>Signed paperback has the better cover, I always go with

0:48:11.560 --> 0:48:12.720
<v Speaker 3>the paperback on that one.

0:48:12.920 --> 0:48:15.359
<v Speaker 2>I would be willing to steal one of those. You know,

0:48:15.960 --> 0:48:21.160
<v Speaker 2>do you have one? Don't answer that, don't ask.

0:48:21.640 --> 0:48:24.160
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's all I have. You can find us online

0:48:24.160 --> 0:48:27.040
<v Speaker 3>at ridiculous crime dot com. There's merch there. I heard

0:48:27.120 --> 0:48:31.000
<v Speaker 3>sometimes no, sometimes yes. We're also at Ridiculous Crime on

0:48:31.040 --> 0:48:35.120
<v Speaker 3>Twitter and Instagram. I quit Twitter? What I deactivated my account?

0:48:35.200 --> 0:48:35.520
<v Speaker 2>You did?

0:48:35.600 --> 0:48:35.919
<v Speaker 3>I did?

0:48:36.160 --> 0:48:36.680
<v Speaker 2>Wow?

0:48:36.719 --> 0:48:37.480
<v Speaker 3>You know up his.

0:48:39.160 --> 0:48:40.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm not as brave as you do.

0:48:40.440 --> 0:48:41.400
<v Speaker 4>Not email?

0:48:41.800 --> 0:48:44.880
<v Speaker 3>Do it? Do not email ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com.

0:48:45.520 --> 0:48:49.440
<v Speaker 3>And then, but please god, why aren't you people leaving

0:48:49.480 --> 0:48:50.920
<v Speaker 3>talkbacks on the iHeart app?

0:48:51.080 --> 0:48:52.600
<v Speaker 2>We do like those. We'll start playing with you.

0:48:53.160 --> 0:48:56.360
<v Speaker 3>I ask very little of the root is and I

0:48:56.400 --> 0:48:59.160
<v Speaker 3>give so much and all I wanted some talkback?

0:48:59.320 --> 0:49:02.560
<v Speaker 2>You have the woman a pete.

0:49:03.120 --> 0:49:12.200
<v Speaker 3>Uh, yeah, that's it. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth

0:49:12.239 --> 0:49:14.960
<v Speaker 3>Dutton and z Aaron Burnett, produced and edited by First

0:49:15.080 --> 0:49:19.440
<v Speaker 3>Edition Dave Cousten's Who Research is by Marissa handbound copy

0:49:19.480 --> 0:49:23.760
<v Speaker 3>of Leaves of Grass Brown and Andrea Brahmstoker's Dracula printed

0:49:23.800 --> 0:49:26.919
<v Speaker 3>on a silver dagger song Sharpened Hear. The theme song

0:49:26.960 --> 0:49:30.160
<v Speaker 3>is by Thomas Original Nancy Comic in a plastic sleeve

0:49:30.280 --> 0:49:34.360
<v Speaker 3>Lee and Travis Moneyball with no dust jacket. Totally naked,

0:49:34.400 --> 0:49:38.440
<v Speaker 3>totally legal, totally cool. Dutton Executive producers are Sergeant at

0:49:38.560 --> 0:49:40.960
<v Speaker 3>Arms of the A B A A. Ben Bollen and

0:49:41.120 --> 0:49:44.160
<v Speaker 3>Shadow Chancellor of the A B A A. Noel Brown.

0:49:49.160 --> 0:49:54.560
<v Speaker 2>Dus Crime Say It One More Time.

0:49:55.640 --> 0:49:59.000
<v Speaker 1>Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four More Podcasts,

0:49:59.120 --> 0:50:02.600
<v Speaker 1>my heart Radios, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

0:50:02.600 --> 0:50:04.040
<v Speaker 1>you listen to your favorite shows,