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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by catch hot

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Speaker 1: tofoon vice. Instead is supported by the generous contributions of

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Speaker 1: people like you, our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot

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Speaker 1: com slash thinking sideways to learn more Thinking Sideways. I

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Speaker 1: don't understand. I'm you never know stories of things we

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Speaker 1: simply don't know the answer too. Hey there, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to another episode of Thinking Sideways. What you have to understand? No,

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Speaker 1: I'll be back to Thinking sideways. Okay. I am Steve,

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Speaker 1: as always joined by Devin and Joe, and today we

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Speaker 1: have yet another mystery to talk about. I'm really agreely mystery.

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Speaker 1: Ye does it involve my favorite thing? One of them?

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Speaker 1: One of my favorite things? One of them? I do

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Speaker 1: have a lot of favorite things that you do. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about the Sunset Limited derailment

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Speaker 1: that happened in and not correct. Actually it did go

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Speaker 1: off its rails. Well yeah, but it didn't. It didn't

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Speaker 1: like different reasons anyway. Anyway, you guys done. Yeah, before

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Speaker 1: we get off track again or get in too far

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Speaker 1: into the story, Yeah, I do want to say that

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Speaker 1: this was a listener suggestion from Katie, so thank you Katie.

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Speaker 1: Really like this, um, so let's go ahead and do this.

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Speaker 1: The the Sunset Limited, which is an Amtrak passenger train,

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Speaker 1: derailed in the middle of the Arizona Desert, which, by

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Speaker 1: the way, I'm kind of working on a travel disaster series,

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Speaker 1: it appears, and I'm really just trying to scare the

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Speaker 1: crap out of people so that they have a reason

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Speaker 1: to stay home because traveling is scary. You do last

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Speaker 1: time the airline crash the South African Airlines. Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was researching this. I found a list online of

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Speaker 1: all these various train crashes. It's like, you know, the

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Speaker 1: nineteenth century out to the present day. Some really amazing.

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Speaker 1: The problem with discouraging our listeners from traveling is that

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Speaker 1: many of them listen while traveling. So our listeners, our

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Speaker 1: listenership may decrease a little bit. Okay, fine, as I

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Speaker 1: always do, at the end of this, I'll give your

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Speaker 1: reassurances why it can't happen anymore, why you're safe. It'll

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Speaker 1: be okay, all right, it'll be okay, good because I

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Speaker 1: just got back from a train trip. So alrighty well,

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Speaker 1: let's let's start our mystery. The name Sunset Limited is

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Speaker 1: actually quite an old name it was used before the

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Speaker 1: turn of the twentieth century. Actually, at that time or

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Speaker 1: for a short time, Southern Pacific Railroad was running it

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Speaker 1: under the name of Sunset Express. So the whole thing

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Speaker 1: originally was if you just caught That was run by

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Speaker 1: Southern Pacific Railroad, which was a huge rail line that

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Speaker 1: ran all over the United States. They were huge and beautiful,

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Speaker 1: and some of their trains were beautiful trains. A lot,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. The Sunset Limited was a passenger train, and

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Speaker 1: it was kind of a premier luxury train. It had

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Speaker 1: bar cars, it had sleeping cars, and it had just

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Speaker 1: about every other car that was needed to make it's

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Speaker 1: kind of well to do clientele happy. Sounds like, actually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it really was. Now today the Sunset Limited runs from

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Speaker 1: New Orleans to San Francisco because it takes a bend

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Speaker 1: at Los Angeles and heads north. But prior to that

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Speaker 1: it used to run from I believe it was Orlando. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't do that anymore because after Hurricane Katrina the

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Speaker 1: tracks are sort of no good. I don't think I

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Speaker 1: don't think it goes to San Francisco anymore, either, doesn't. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that that's all on the I was

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Speaker 1: pulling up the root information and I'm almost positive that

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Speaker 1: it's still going there. That's kind of where it does

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Speaker 1: it's big turn. Well, yeah it doesn't. You can always

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Speaker 1: catch a plane in l a um. Now, the Sunset

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Speaker 1: Limited was great, It was fantastic, and it just kept

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Speaker 1: getting bigger and bigger. But of course the American rail

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Speaker 1: system started to go into decline and it couldn't escape

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Speaker 1: that general decline, so it started to go downhill and

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Speaker 1: at its lowest point, this is actually where it's probably

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Speaker 1: one of the saddest things about this train is at

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Speaker 1: its lowest point, the Sunset Limited was one engine, a

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Speaker 1: baggage car, a coach car, and an automat car, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, an automatic is just a bunch of

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Speaker 1: vending mission foods and tables, right, I mean, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: could sit down, but yeah. And the reason that it

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Speaker 1: had to have the automat is because the trip is

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Speaker 1: so long that it took you had to give people food.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise the automat would have never been there. They would

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Speaker 1: have saved the weight in the space if they could have.

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Speaker 1: Could you buy a beer out of machine too? I

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Speaker 1: don't know, probably not, probably not. It would have been

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Speaker 1: really foamy. Yeah maybe, although it was like the fifties

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Speaker 1: and sixties, right, so who knows. Yeah, yeah, pull the

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Speaker 1: Martini lever. They had whiskey vending machines. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think they were mostly novelty, but that was a thing

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Speaker 1: I like the idea. Yeah, me too, Okay, okay, So

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Speaker 1: it's uh so, like I said, Sunset Limited starts at

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Speaker 1: the in the early end of the twentieth century. Now

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Speaker 1: we're going to move to The rail system is in

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Speaker 1: decline in general in the United States. Passenger rail I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think passenger rails still doing all right. It is

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Speaker 1: still doing all right. It's not it's not what it

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Speaker 1: was at one time, but it's still doing well. It's alive.

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Speaker 1: That year one is when Amtrak took over the rail

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Speaker 1: lines for passenger trains. For those of you who don't know,

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Speaker 1: Amtrak is the name that is used for the National

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Speaker 1: Railroad Passenger Corporation, which is a US government funded company.

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Speaker 1: It's not technically completely private, subsidized, I think is the

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Speaker 1: right way to say it, and it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: government sponsored consolidation of most of the passenger rails in

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Speaker 1: the US. And if you actually look at the name

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Speaker 1: Amtrack American Tracks literally where they got the name. Get it,

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Speaker 1: I got it. The Sunset Limited, of course, is a

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Speaker 1: passenger train under Amtrack. So Amtrak does their due diligence,

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Speaker 1: and as with most of the lines that they run,

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Speaker 1: they managed to grow it and it's gotten bigger, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean there's something to be said. I think that

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Speaker 1: kind of luxury passenger trains ended up being really really

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Speaker 1: expensive and not really worth the time. That's the that's

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Speaker 1: was just like for that amount, I can take a

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Speaker 1: three hour flight and the nostalgia of it wasn't there

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Speaker 1: yet where it is now so amtrack or even a drive, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean from here we're in Portland to go to Seattle,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a five or six hour train ride.

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Speaker 1: Three and a half hours? Is it to get from

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Speaker 1: Portland to Seattle? Does it take so long because you

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Speaker 1: stop everywhere and you can drive. You can drive in

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Speaker 1: the same amount of time. Yeah, And it's equaling costs

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Speaker 1: to a rental car because that family will fly into

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Speaker 1: Seattle and then drive down in rental all the time. Like,

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Speaker 1: where does you take the train? Oh, never mind, it's

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Speaker 1: actually more expensive. We just went up to Seattle. On

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Speaker 1: the train a weekend ago, and there it's long and expensive,

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Speaker 1: but there's some nostalgia with it right now, but there

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Speaker 1: it wasn't. So when Amtrak took over, they lowered the

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Speaker 1: rates and kind of made it more of an economy thing,

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Speaker 1: and people really back on that. So that's that's kind

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Speaker 1: of when it's affordable, why not I can sit here

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Speaker 1: and relax and do what I want today. The line

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Speaker 1: that the Sunset Limited runs is it's a route that

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Speaker 1: it runs three times a week east to west and

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Speaker 1: west to east, so three times a week in one

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Speaker 1: direction and then three times a week in the other direction.

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Speaker 1: And it runs the course over two days is approximately

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Speaker 1: two thousand miles, which for folks on the metric system,

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Speaker 1: that's and in the train had grown again. It was

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Speaker 1: big enough that it required two engines and it had

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Speaker 1: about a dozen cars. So we're gonna move to the

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Speaker 1: day in question. Well, that's where we're headed. The day

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Speaker 1: in question that we're going to talk about is the

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Speaker 1: wee hours of the morning of October nine. The train

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Speaker 1: is at this point heading westbound, so from New Orleans,

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Speaker 1: heading towards San Francisco. The train derailed just before crossing

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Speaker 1: a trestle, And if you don't know, trestle is a

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Speaker 1: bridge for a rail. They're smaller. Yes. Even though so

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Speaker 1: the train is derailed, it's got enough inertia behind it.

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Speaker 1: And this is the thing about train crashes that make

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Speaker 1: them so sometimes seriously deadly. It had so much inertia

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Speaker 1: behind it that the engines, even though they were knocked

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Speaker 1: off of the rail, traveled across the bridge, and the

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Speaker 1: next two cars went across the trestle, and then after

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Speaker 1: that the rest of the cars actually fell off of

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Speaker 1: the bridge. The passengers reported feeling a giant jolt like

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Speaker 1: you would and then the world started spinning. No pun intended.

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Speaker 1: So the train, like I said, we get the engines

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Speaker 1: come off, the first two cars come off, as the

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Speaker 1: next cars start fall over, the whole thing jack knives.

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Speaker 1: And the way trains are connected now in the nineties,

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Speaker 1: that's what I do. When I say now, I mean

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Speaker 1: in the nineties. And all of the cars are connected,

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Speaker 1: and the connections are snug enough that they can't roll

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Speaker 1: too much independent of one another, so they're all locked together,

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Speaker 1: kind of like the links in a chain, so as

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Speaker 1: you spin it, all of them roll. And that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things that actually kept us from being a

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Speaker 1: much more deadly incident is that it pulled all of

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Speaker 1: them over and it absorbed some of the force of

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Speaker 1: the crash because it fall down into the ravine. One

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Speaker 1: car couldn't just you know, topple over and over and

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Speaker 1: over in just the whole thing kind of doing one

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Speaker 1: slow roll wasn't. Yeah. I was reading about that then

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Speaker 1: earlier train wreck and the description of one of these

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Speaker 1: guys that was I think he was in the bar

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Speaker 1: car or something, and he said, you know, you put

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Speaker 1: dice in the cup and you shake the cup, and

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Speaker 1: he pumped the dice. He said he felt like he

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Speaker 1: felt like that. Yeah, I felt like it was a yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: If if anybody has played with model trains, I played

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Speaker 1: with model trains all the time as a kid. You

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Speaker 1: know exactly what's going on here is that, you know

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Speaker 1: model trains, it's hard to get them to go with

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Speaker 1: enough speed. So when you knock one off, the next

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Speaker 1: couple kind of fall over, but they don't just go tumbly.

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Speaker 1: Now imagine that they were going ten times as fast

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Speaker 1: and the cars were flying everywhere. That's what old trains

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Speaker 1: used to have happened. But like I said, the train

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Speaker 1: cars because they're stuck together, prevents a lot of human

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Speaker 1: loss of life. They kind of just toppled. Yeah, one

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Speaker 1: person died, the man by the name of Mitchell Bates.

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Speaker 1: He was an Amtrak employee. He's been but amtrack for

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Speaker 1: like twenty plus years, and he was on the train

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Speaker 1: as an employee. Correct he was he was working, so

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Speaker 1: one assumes he was standing and he was probably walking

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Speaker 1: around at one thirty in the morning doing his rounds.

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Speaker 1: He could have even been in between cars or something something,

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Speaker 1: But he was the only person that was killed when

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Speaker 1: the train fell off the trustle. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: just to give you a frame of reference, it fell

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Speaker 1: thirty feet, which is equivalent to about nine meters, so

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Speaker 1: it's a long way down. Although it's how wide was it?

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Speaker 1: Do you remember? It wasn't wider than the car was

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Speaker 1: long right the ravine it was it was, it was

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Speaker 1: longer it was the ravine. The with the ravine was

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Speaker 1: more than the length of a car, but it was

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Speaker 1: like two cars at the most. Wasn't some giant Grand

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Speaker 1: Canyon size pit, that's what it was, just a dry,

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Speaker 1: dry river bed. You should just look up pictures. There's

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Speaker 1: lots of pictures. There's gonna be it's gonna helps in

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Speaker 1: a lot of places to do that. But so Mitchell

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Speaker 1: Bach is killed. A lot of people are injured, but

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Speaker 1: not nearly as many as could have been. About but

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Speaker 1: a quarter of the people that are on board are injured.

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Speaker 1: So we have seventy eight injured out of two forty

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Speaker 1: eight passengers, plus an additional twenty crew. So that's a

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Speaker 1: you know, a quarter people. That's pretty bad. But that's

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Speaker 1: all range of injury, right, it's not that's anything from us.

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Speaker 1: You know, spring ankle, brained ankle to contusion, yes, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that I mean, you know, it could have been

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Speaker 1: some of them. I heard some of them, like about

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Speaker 1: seventeen or twenty were very seriously. I'm surest of them

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Speaker 1: were minor engines. But the derailment happened, like I said,

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Speaker 1: it was at one thirty am. It happened about fifty

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Speaker 1: miles west of Phoenix, Arizona, and obviously, of course emergency

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Speaker 1: crews scramble to get out to the site as fast

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Speaker 1: as they can. Now you might think, okay, well, it's

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Speaker 1: a train, it's going over a bridge, it's going fast

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Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere. So it was probably just

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Speaker 1: some kind of natural accident, but you would be completely

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Speaker 1: wrong to think that, because, as it turns out, it

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Speaker 1: was completely and totally intention all sabotage. Yeah, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of a bumber. Yeah, And we're gonna we're gonna

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Speaker 1: give some of the details on that shortly, but I

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Speaker 1: just want to keep going on about in the timeline

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Speaker 1: of what happened for the folks in the train. So

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Speaker 1: the crew goes along the train and says, hey, everybody,

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Speaker 1: stay in the train. That's smart, it's smart. It's the desert,

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Speaker 1: it's night. You don't want to go trains and around

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Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere. You're gonna be lost. And

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Speaker 1: the rattlesnakes, there's scorpions, you know, exactly, lots of bad animals.

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Speaker 1: But eventually people did start getting out of the train

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Speaker 1: because the A C is not working, the plumbing is

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Speaker 1: not working, so it's a little stinky in the cars.

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Speaker 1: And as they started walking around outside the train, uh,

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Speaker 1: they started finding printed flyers on the ground, and those

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00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:53,080
Speaker 1: flyers were held down by rocks, which very quickly led

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Speaker 1: everybody to realize they were intentionally placed there. Somebody knew

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Speaker 1: that the train was gonna crash beforehand. Yeah, that'd be

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Speaker 1: kind of creepy. Oh wow, would freak me the hell out.

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Speaker 1: Realize there's cross hairs in the back of your head,

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00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:11,520
Speaker 1: probably right exactly. So there's a total of four notes

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Speaker 1: you're found. They're all identical. I haven't found a verifiable

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Speaker 1: copy of it around to know exactly what it said.

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Speaker 1: We Devin, you found. I found a copy and it

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Speaker 1: was it was two different texts. One was like a

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Speaker 1: much longer version of the second one and the one.

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Speaker 1: I can't verify either of them, but one of them

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Speaker 1: was reported to have been put It was in a

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Speaker 1: newspaper afterwards. That was you know, they printed they said

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Speaker 1: this is what the letter said basically or something like that. Um,

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Speaker 1: and so, yeah, I can't verify that they existed or not,

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Speaker 1: but it was. It's good. It's good reading either way

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Speaker 1: it is. It's interesting if if the long one is accurate.

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Speaker 1: It is a long, meandering ram will about the new

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Speaker 1: world order, like you would kind of expect from somebody

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Speaker 1: who might do something like yes, and it talks about

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Speaker 1: it's it's written from the sons of the Gestapo. Excuse me,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Uh So, I don't know if it's right,

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Speaker 1: But and this stuff is in the copy that we found.

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Speaker 1: There's but and then when you read the reporting on

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Speaker 1: the Sunset Limited, it always talks about how the note

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Speaker 1: addresses things that were done or is addressed to, I

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Speaker 1: should say, the Department of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the

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00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:39,440
Speaker 1: A T F, the Federal Bureau of Investigation f b I,

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Speaker 1: the state Police, and the Sheriff's office, and the notes

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Speaker 1: all the I guess I can just call it then

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Speaker 1: note since they're identical. The note mentions incidents that those

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Speaker 1: agencies were all involved in, one of which is the Waco,

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Speaker 1: Texas standoff, which was with David Koresh and the Branch

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Speaker 1: of Indians in as well as what happened with at

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Speaker 1: Ruby Ridge with Randy Weaver and his family in. And

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Speaker 1: then it's that's where it signed Sons of Gestapo. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean this letter has again I can't verify that

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Speaker 1: this is what it is, but the text that I

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00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:25,080
Speaker 1: found has things like the nWo New World Order right

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00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 1: needs to bring about chaos in America so that it

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00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,639
Speaker 1: can pose martial law, which will be enforced by the

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00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,199
Speaker 1: United Nation troops. The bombing in Oklahoma City was the

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00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,840
Speaker 1: first step in creating this chaos. Many crucial records from

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00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,720
Speaker 1: Waco and Ruby Ridge were destroyed in the bombing, but

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00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:39,959
Speaker 1: also destroyed where the records from the Germans who were

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00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,200
Speaker 1: brought to this country after World War Two. Their first

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00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,640
Speaker 1: home in America was Oklahoma. It's that letters, and I'm

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Speaker 1: inclined to believe that the letters likely were that kind

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00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,960
Speaker 1: of letter. Yes, but the lage and the theme, it's

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00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,680
Speaker 1: kind of anti government kind of stuff, but very world

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Speaker 1: order where that writer, so, I think sense of humor

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Speaker 1: is comes through this group supposedly as Sons of Gestapo.

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00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,280
Speaker 1: So he's anti government, and I think he wants to

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00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:12,560
Speaker 1: name himself after a very large, very effective government agency.

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00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,639
Speaker 1: I think he's tweaking us that that's going to come

301
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,280
Speaker 1: up in our very section. Yet you're absolutely right. Um,

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00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,880
Speaker 1: Now here's a problem with the Sons of Gestapo other

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00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,760
Speaker 1: than the fact that they write an unintelligible pamphlet, is

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00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,560
Speaker 1: that I've never heard of him, nobody had, nobody did

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00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 1: before that, and nobody has heard of them since. And

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00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:39,080
Speaker 1: it it almost seems as if it's, uh, it's meant

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00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,040
Speaker 1: to redirect the attention away from the people who might

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00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:48,760
Speaker 1: who are responsible. Yeah, very likely actually, uh, now, that's

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00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,040
Speaker 1: kind of weird and sinister on its own. But even

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00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:55,520
Speaker 1: more sinister about the derailment and the sabotage is that

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Speaker 1: whoever did this knew exactly what they were doing, because

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00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,520
Speaker 1: as they bypassed all bunch of safety stuff. It does

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00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,440
Speaker 1: seem like there should be some kind of safety measures

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00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 1: there are for trains, like, hey, guess what that got

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00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,879
Speaker 1: derails And we're going to talk about the safety systems,

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00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,439
Speaker 1: and we'll actually talk about the derailment and how it

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00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 1: was done in depth. It's very It's something that you

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Speaker 1: basically can't do anymore, so, which is good. None of

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Speaker 1: you group balls who were listening to go out and

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00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 1: try and do this. Please you're not gonna be able to.

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00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,399
Speaker 1: But also don't be nervous about it happening. You can

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00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:35,439
Speaker 1: keep taking railway railways well, actually many places around the

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00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 1: world they're probably still doing it the old fashioned way.

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Speaker 1: So there's probably places where you can still do this. Yeah, maybe,

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Speaker 1: hopefully I think that they're there are fewer and fewer

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Speaker 1: every day. So we're gonna talk about the crash, but

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Speaker 1: I first want to describe, just for folks who don't know,

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Speaker 1: the anatomy of a rail line. I can't imagine anybody

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Speaker 1: who doesn't know, but it is important, it's very let's

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00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 1: talk about it anyway. Okay, So the anatomy of a railroad,

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00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,520
Speaker 1: by the way, a rail and road set of rails

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00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 1: on a road. That's literally what the name means. It

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00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: is made up of a series of large wooden beams,

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00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 1: which called railroad ties, and they sit on a bed

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00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,960
Speaker 1: of gravel and that's literally called your track bed. And

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00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 1: it has sections of steel rails that are laid across it.

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00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 1: And those rails are attached to the wooden beams. They're

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00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 1: tie plates, steel tie plates, or those are attached with

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00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:36,239
Speaker 1: giant spikes. Yeah, this is really the basics of it.

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00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:41,240
Speaker 1: Railroad tracks come in two sizes, which isn't really important

341
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 1: in their length for us, but they do come in

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00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 1: a multitude of sizes, which is actually I kind of

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00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 1: got into the science, haven't It's really kind of interesting

344
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,880
Speaker 1: as to for when and how they're they aligned. But

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00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 1: we're not going to go down that path. I have

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00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 1: read something very interesting about railroads and why they are

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00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:01,240
Speaker 1: what is it five or four point eight five inches

348
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 1: across the physical rail. Yeah, it's very interesting. There's a

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00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,679
Speaker 1: lot of really interesting. Basically, it comes, it goes, it

350
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 1: comes back to ancient Greece and all that stuff interesting.

351
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: So you're going to have individual sections of rails, and

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00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 1: those rails are going to be attached to one another

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Speaker 1: using a steel plate and big old bolts. Those plates

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00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 1: are called fish plates, right, and those are they're under right,

355
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:33,159
Speaker 1: the rails, they're right, that's sorry, they're under the like

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Speaker 1: the part that the wheel attaches to. So the easy way,

357
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,120
Speaker 1: I'm not going to use the technical terms. So if

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00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 1: you are a rail fanatic, I apologize. I'm just trying

359
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 1: to keep this as simple as possible. A rail is

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00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:50,360
Speaker 1: I shaped, It's like a capital yes, And so what

361
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 1: Joe is saying is yes, it is in the middle

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00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 1: on the upright that they are bolted together in the race.

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00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: The train wheels run on the top of the eye

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00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 1: and the bottom of the eye sits on the When

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00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: I said under, I meant under the overhang. I knew

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00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 1: exactly what you meant. That's why I wanted to clarify.

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00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 1: I think the ibeam is the simplest way to put it. Yes,

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00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 1: perfect now described a train track the track, yes, just

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Speaker 1: the track. Of course, we don't want our two pieces

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00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 1: of rail coming apart, so they're bolted together. But as

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00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 1: we talked about, trains move really fast and they have

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Speaker 1: a lot of inertia, and if for some reason they

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00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 1: come apart of conductor is not going to be able

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00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: to easily stop the train if they even see it.

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00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: Do you mean the engineer is it an engineer? I

376
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: always I heard it call the conductor the engineers the

377
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 1: guy that drives the train, right, and then the conductor

378
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 1: is a guy that who who takes your ticket and

379
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. Google says engineers operate the train.

380
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 1: Conductors don't they do procedural stuff. See this is why

381
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: I shouldn't rely on my childhood knowledge of trains. The

382
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: tank engine was lying to you, freaking Thomas. Okay, but anyway,

383
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: the point is is that you don't want these these

384
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: things driving the train, whoever the guy driving the train,

385
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: the person driving the train to not see that because

386
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: they're not gonna be able to stop it in time.

387
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: So what is done is that a small electric charges

388
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: run through the rails and that is connected to a signal.

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00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 1: Is it through the rails or through a wire on

390
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: the rails, So the rails the way I understand it,

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00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: and I may be incorrect, but the way I understand

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00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: it is run through the rail because two pieces of

393
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: rail don't always perfectly attached to one another because of

394
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: the fish play expansion contraction. I mean, even though the

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00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: train wheel doesn't know that, they use a wire to

396
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: connect the two and if the current between from the

397
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 1: rails from one or the other is broken, then that

398
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: flips a SWITCHTCE safe distance away, they say, hey, there's

399
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 1: a problem. They can stop the train and then send

400
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 1: somebody out to investigate it. Okay, that's that's the safety system. Okay. Now,

401
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: so I was just gonna say, so, as long as

402
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 1: the rails are actually touching still, the wire doesn't It

403
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, right, But the wire is a backup because

404
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 1: if let's say it's really cold and the steel contracts

405
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 1: and they've separated enough, the wire is a backup for

406
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: correct or potentially you get corrosion between the fish plate

407
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 1: and the rail. Yeah, that also happens. Yeah, exactly. I

408
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: just wanted to make sure that I was understanding. Yes,

409
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 1: you're absolutely correct, And my understanding of the wire is

410
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: that it's it's over long. They do it in coils.

411
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: I did, uh at least used to have. Yeah, I

412
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: think they used to have a loop. It's not a

413
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: couple of loops. So I tried to check this out

414
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 1: a couple of days ago. Please please explain. Yeah, well,

415
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: there's some railroad tracks not far from my house, you know. Yeah,

416
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: So I went over there and I started. I wanted

417
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 1: to see this. I wanted to see this wire, to

418
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: see exactly what it looked like, because I remember seeing

419
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: fish plates on rails when I was a kid. Yeah,

420
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: And so I went back to look, like to see

421
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 1: if that wire I was there. So I started walking,

422
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 1: and I walk, and I walk and I walk, and

423
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: I must have walked like, you know, almost two yards.

424
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: I'm going, my god, they make these rails really long

425
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 1: these days. They actually do, especially with you know, through cities,

426
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: they lay the longer ones as much as they can,

427
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: just because it's I don't know if you've noticed this

428
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: or not. I don't know how long it's been since

429
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 1: you were on a train, But you can't feel when

430
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: you go over the thing, and the slower you go,

431
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: the more you feel it right and goes. So you

432
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: wouldn't want that as much through residential areas. Here's a

433
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: great thing about what Joe did. Joe gets out his

434
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: phone to call a friend to ask about that. They

435
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: have a friend named Tim who's more conversant with railroads

436
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: than me and him and say, Tim, do they weld

437
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 1: them together? Now? And I get a phone call and

438
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: I answered hello, Hey, what's up. He's like, hey, Tim,

439
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: And I realized this call the prone number, but I don't.

440
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: I don't say anything, what's going on? And that's what

441
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: I pulled my phone away from my face and look

442
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: at it and says, oh, Steve, okay, okay, acsilutely, you

443
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: didn't call me. I just like. The point is is

444
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: that most rails, as Joe has discovered today or well

445
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: did together all, they don't use fish plates. What at

446
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 1: first I was, I was like, you could go you

447
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: could probably go down to the rail Heritage Museum that's

448
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: also not too from that. Um, they probably have all

449
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: examples of all that stuff out there. Oh yeah, I'm

450
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: sure there's tracks around that have that, just unfortunately these

451
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: particular ones didn't have that pretty frequently. Yeah, so they're

452
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: well did now. They don't have the wire, they don't

453
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: need the wire. They don't need the wire because the

454
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: weld makes the connection and it's actually stronger and it's

455
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 1: a smoother ride as you were talking about. That's part

456
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: of the reason they may not actually be using the

457
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: longer ones anymore. But because they welded a continuous surface,

458
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 1: you never know. You can tell you on Amtrak from

459
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 1: Portland to Seattle they are still using those connectors. Clack, Yeah,

460
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: let's let's get back to the story. This is actually important.

461
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: Though it is important, I just don't want to go

462
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: too far down down that path. Okay, So whoever sabotage

463
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 1: the Sunset Limited pulled twenty nine of the spikes that

464
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: were holding the rail and the tie plates to the

465
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 1: railroad ties uh from a single junction between two rails,

466
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: and then they then shifted one of those rails inward

467
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: so that the two were no longer lined up, but

468
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: they moved it inward, and then they re spiked it down.

469
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: And the really kind of hard part is that they

470
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 1: knew enough to make sure not to break that wire.

471
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 1: But what that meant is that as the train was

472
00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: coming down the line where that junction was, that wheel

473
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: hit a flat, blunt surface. They moved it in far

474
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: enough so that the flat edge was now to the inside.

475
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: What used to be the outside was now made it

476
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: up to the inside of its previous Mate, I thought

477
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: you're a description that you did. I actually did that

478
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: when I was reading through the script earlier, even though

479
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: I had seen I've seen the diagrams that I thought

480
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: that was a really good description. Listeners, Yeah, we'll give

481
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: that to folks here. I just want people to understand

482
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 1: those that here's the thing. It hit with such force

483
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: because it's a flat, blunt edge it I kid you

484
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: not popped the train wheels right off the track, just

485
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: on that one side, on that one side, which is

486
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: then causes the whole derailment. And any time that this happens,

487
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: you can actually see a big old ding in the

488
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: wheels of the train. So it's a lot of force.

489
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: So let's go back to the analogy that or the

490
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: description that I had while you say, okay, I actually

491
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: have a feeling there's gonna be all kinds of people

492
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: doing this if you're driving. Please don't careful, don't do

493
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: this while you're driving. Just imagine it. No, actually, here,

494
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: it's an easier way to describe it. Take two cards

495
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: of cigarettes, put them and then lucky strikes and then okay,

496
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: So here's how you do it. Okay, So you're gonna

497
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: take the tip of your left thumb and you're gonna

498
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: put it against the tip of your right thumb. And

499
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: then you're gonna take the tip of your left pointer

500
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: finger and you're gonna put it against the tip of

501
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: your right pointer and they're gonna be parallel. And those

502
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: your pointer fingers and your thumbs, those make the rail

503
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: and where they meet that's the rail junction. Showing it

504
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: around like she's a hand model. Now the train is

505
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: gonna be coming down your right arm and it would

506
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,479
Speaker 1: go across that junction and then go back up your

507
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: left arm. The train is going to be coming down

508
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: your right arm, across the junction of your fingers, and

509
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: then back up your left arms. Train going I stopped, Joe.

510
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: Now you're gonna be a saboteur. As a saboteur, what

511
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: you're gonna do is you're gonna take your left pointer

512
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: finger and you're gonna move it inwards so that your

513
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: fingernail of your left pointer fingers touching the pad of

514
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: your right finger the inside. You see how that shifted off.

515
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: Now you understand as that rail because the wheels sit

516
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: inside the rails as it comes from down, it's going

517
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: to hit that flat edge. Shouldn't it be the thumb

518
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: that moves in. It doesn't matter which one, So wait

519
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: to clarify, it's not wheel the whole wheel. They just

520
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: have the lip on the inside, right, because because the

521
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: wheel of trades rides the top and the inside of

522
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: the rail. But it doesn't matter, Joe, which which finger

523
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: you move you go fall? All right? Fine, So this

524
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: is how our saboteurs did the deed basically. Now, whoever

525
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: did this had to work fairly quickly in a general sense,

526
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: because trains would be coming down that line every six

527
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: to twelve hours after the last one it passed by. Sorry,

528
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: should we mention that, as we described before, just to reiterate,

529
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: the medal is still touching, so the current isn't interrupted.

530
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: The medal isn't touching, the wire is still in place.

531
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: The wire that connects the rails was stretched. Now I've

532
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: heard that it was a long enough loop that they

533
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: didn't have to do anything. I've also heard that they

534
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: used what was called a jumper line to add kind

535
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: of like a jumper cable, to add extra link to it,

536
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: but that they did it. They knew that the line

537
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: would be would be interrupted. If they interrupted the signal,

538
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: the whole thing was going to the game was up. Sorry,

539
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: they totally wanted to reiterate that, Yes, but they also knew.

540
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: I mean, they had to do it fast because trains

541
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: are coming down this line every six to twelve hours,

542
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: because it's a heavily used track. They would have had yeah,

543
00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: of course, but that's not hard to find out. No,

544
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: the schedules are totally published, but they would have had

545
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: to at least staked out that spot for a while

546
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: to know when the trains came by. And I guess

547
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: the other thing to mention is that in these areas

548
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: there are some areas that aren't this much. But I

549
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: believe in these areas you have one track line for

550
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: all train traffic, so amtrack shares the line with freight line.

551
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: Freight line traffic and freight lines aren't nearly as publicized

552
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: as to when they're coming down the trains. So you can,

553
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: you can if you sit there and stake it out

554
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: and say, okay, the train comes by every Thursday at

555
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: this time. You can, but that's not something that you

556
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: necessarily as a matter of public record, right, And the

557
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: other thing to keep in mind is that the amtrack

558
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: runs on track that is owned by multiple rail companies,

559
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: So this happens to be owned by Southern Pacific the

560
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: spot that we're talking about. But yes, that's a good point,

561
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: so it could have been they would have had to

562
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: actually sit Yeah, they would have stake it out and

563
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: keep keep track of it. I mean that that really

564
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: means that somebody had to sit around and do their

565
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: homework and really plan this at least probably months, a

566
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: good amount of time. So they probably didn't live too

567
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: far away, I would I would guess that they couldn't

568
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: have lived too far away. Now, the FBI, they have

569
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: been working on this case for twenty years. They so

570
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: far have no viable suspects. I've heard mentioned that they

571
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: thought they had a suspect or too, but really it

572
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: turns out they didn't ever really have anybody in mind.

573
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: There were a couple of locals who showed up and

574
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: grabbed them, didn't they Some folks they kind of made themselves,

575
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: you know, a bad name, because they kind of wrangled

576
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: some people up and then turned out they totally had

577
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: no idea what they were doing. But really, they they've

578
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: had no suspects, but then they decided that, well, somebody

579
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: who did this must have had experience with trains. They

580
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: must work. They've got to have experience to know how

581
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: this has happened. But then it was discovered that this

582
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: was not the first time that a train had derailed

583
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: in this very specific way, and that's when the story

584
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,439
Speaker 1: kind of took a turn. There is another train called

585
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: the City of San Francisco which derailed the really close,

586
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: really close in terms of the method. I'm sorry, I

587
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: was just being a jerk about the location in the

588
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 1: name and the year totally close. Actually it really the

589
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: year is what makes it so interesting. So I'm going

590
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 1: to talk about this a little bit. But what makes

591
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: the year so interesting is that it's far enough back.

592
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: It's says fifty years. It's not something that I would

593
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: have known as a young man and then been able

594
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: to go out and make this kind of thing happen again.

595
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: It's a long enough span of time that from the

596
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 1: collective memory for most folks, it didn't happen. So that's

597
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: that's why I find it interest thing. So let's talk

598
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 1: about the City of San Francisco for a minute. It's

599
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: the train. It's interesting yeah, it's a cool train. By

600
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: the way it was, it was, it was a really

601
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: cool train. We're gonna go back in time. We're gonna

602
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: go to nine nine, specifically August twelve. The city of

603
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: San Francisco is heading westbound train correct, not the entire city,

604
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,879
Speaker 1: just the train. The train has a hundred forty nine

605
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: passengers and a total of fourteen cars. It's about ten

606
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: thirty at night, and it is approaching a bridge over

607
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: the Humboldt River, which is in Nevada. Sometime earlier in

608
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: the day, we don't know when, somebody had removed the

609
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: fish plates the joint bars from the rails and had

610
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 1: moved the rail line in much like I had described,

611
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: but they had done it part way into a trestle,

612
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 1: into a bridge that went over a river bed right

613
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: before a curve, right before a curve as well, which

614
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 1: is what happened with our train wreck as well. The

615
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: Sunset Limited. Yeah. Oh, and by the way, it was,

616
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: it was also Southern Pacific Trail the line. Yeah, it

617
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: was also a Southern Pacific line. That's absolutely correct and

618
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: absolutely actually is just pretty much an exact duplicate of this. Really,

619
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: it's very close. There are some things that I don't

620
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: always think are exact. So let's let's do some of this.

621
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 1: So they private the rails over whoever moved those lines

622
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: wasn't sure that the engineer wouldn't see what was happening.

623
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: So what they did is they painted the end of

624
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,240
Speaker 1: the rail that they had moved. Because it was nighttime,

625
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: the light would catch reflect off the metal they painted.

626
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: I think they painted in a dark green. And then

627
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: they stuck a tumbleweed on top of that junction to

628
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: hide what they had done. Uh. Trains going sixty, which

629
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,399
Speaker 1: for our friends on the metric system is to an hour.

630
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: The first two cars, again just like the Sunset Limited,

631
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,439
Speaker 1: managed to cross the bridge even though they have been

632
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: knocked off of the rail and flew across. Flew across

633
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: would be a good way to do it, uh, And

634
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: they came to a stop just over eight hundred feet away.

635
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: That that is not a good thing though, because the

636
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: engine and the first two cars they go over it

637
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: and they stay in line and they keep traveling. The

638
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: next car, the third car, is knocked off enough that

639
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: it's twists and it actually hits the bridge that it

640
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: is riding across. The bridge is destroyed, essentially at this

641
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: point because train cars are piling into it and tumbling

642
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: all over the place. And I think it was that

643
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: first car where most of the casualties took place. Right.

644
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: I believe the first car, because that car was buried

645
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: the first time it went down. This is not like

646
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: this limited where they're all tied together really well before that,

647
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: they're not articulated together. They came apart and the first

648
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 1: car was underneath three others. It was the bar car.

649
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: It was the one that went down the lounge. People

650
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,919
Speaker 1: weren't exactly strapped into their seats or anything. Yeah, and

651
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: so it uh, it's it was a giant mass of wreckage.

652
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: If you look at the photos, if you look up

653
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: the image, it's a giant mess. It really does look

654
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: like a kid just took train toys and stuck them

655
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: into sand and they're just sticking caddy wampus. That's what

656
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: it looks like. Um, that's a train wreck. I didn't

657
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: actually see the wreck, but I saw right right after

658
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: it was just laying. They're all twisted. It was a

659
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,439
Speaker 1: freight train all twisted and smoking and everything like that.

660
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: And wow, it's amazing a lot of energy there because

661
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: I mean these these cars were all twisted up, and

662
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:51,919
Speaker 1: they don't build those things, you know, they don't build

663
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 1: them a weak build out of you know, spitting Elmer's clue. Actually,

664
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: interestingly that the rail Heritage Museum that I was talking about,

665
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: they have cars that I don't know if they are

666
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 1: actually from the city of San Francisco or not, but

667
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 1: they're the same color scheme of the same type of

668
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 1: Pacific There are a lot same same with the Sunset Limited,

669
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 1: but they have a bunch of those cars. So if

670
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: you ever want, if you're ever in Portland and you

671
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 1: want to see cars that act like that, I would

672
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: bet those are the Great Northwestern Line probably. I say

673
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: Great Northwestern Line because out where I live. About six

674
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: or seven years ago, I went trooping around and was

675
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: taking pictures of old passenger cars that had gone through

676
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: a fire and there it's really amazing. It was really,

677
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: really interesting. It was totally trespassing, I admit it, but

678
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: I got in there and took a bunch of photos

679
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: because it was just so cool. But I have a

680
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: feeling if those cars were stored here, it wouldn't be

681
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: surprised if others. But then again, the city of San

682
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: Francisco cars were also stored here for a while, a

683
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: lot of them. So it's in the Brooklyn Yards. Yeah,

684
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 1: um that I mean, if I'm sure that everybody he

685
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,479
Speaker 1: lives near some place where there's old train cars because

686
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 1: they were built roll sturdy, not like Amtrak ones dictated

687
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: the fate of those old cars they left outside. Well,

688
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: that's not so good. Turns out Brooklyn Yard was really

689
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: good for those. Yeah, there's a lot of well we

690
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: live in a very wet area to cover that stuff. Okay,

691
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: so let's let's get back to the city of San Francisco. Though.

692
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: I just people were killed, which is surprisingly few for

693
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: the amount of but looking at those pictures though, like

694
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: you would expect. But I'm talking about to kill the deaths, Yeah,

695
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: I guess that's no injury numbers in this that's just

696
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: but that's a lot. That's a huge, a lot of people.

697
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: And you know, at the time, it was a lot

698
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: of theories were floated. It was they were saying that

699
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 1: the rail line was mismanaged by Southern Pacific or that

700
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: they were covering something up. But it quickly became apparent

701
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: that somebody had sabotegy. It was that was before they

702
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: had actually and actually inspected the lines. Right once they

703
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: looked at the actual rail they were like, oh, just kidding,

704
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: that is bad. So the rail lines were really um.

705
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: They were drunk on their own power, I'll say at

706
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,720
Speaker 1: the time, and they we don't have to tell you anything.

707
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: We're doing what we're doing. So of course people started talking,

708
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: and then days later they started publicizing what they had.

709
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: I think that quashed a lot of the rumors and

710
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: the conspiracies that were out there. The theories. We can't

711
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: do away with all of them. Yeah, there was one

712
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: theory that they got out there just immediately and got

713
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: on the train and actually actually did the sabotage to

714
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: make it look like an accident, which it really would

715
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: be hellaciously hard. It's actually impossible to climb under train

716
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: and move the rail, and sitting on now turns out

717
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: yeah crazy. So besides having been done essentially the same way,

718
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: there's another thing that links the City of San Francisco

719
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: derailment to the Sunset Limited derailment. Yeah, and that is

720
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: a article that came out. I would say that it

721
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: I would say that it is the reason that the

722
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 1: Sunset Limited derailment happened the way it did. I will

723
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: disagree with that, but give me a minute. Okay. So

724
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: here's what we're bringing up is that in October of

725
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: article came out in a magazine called sp train Line

726
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: talking about how the sabotage was done. It was written

727
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: by a guy named John Signer. He wrote an article,

728
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 1: and of course, the the the FBI immediately show up

729
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: at his doorstep when they figured it figured out it

730
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: was out there, they started interrogating and questioning him about this. Uh.

731
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: He of course sang like a canary and gave him

732
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: whatever information they wanted to. I don't blame him if

733
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, I mean, how did the FBI

734
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 1: find out about this? I don't know how they found

735
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: out about it, to be quite honest, that has never

736
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,959
Speaker 1: been specified how they figured it out, but they wanted

737
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 1: kind of I'm kind of wondering if John Signer actually

738
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 1: when he heard about it and he had just written

739
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 1: that article, I'm kind of thinking he might have contacted them.

740
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: Well he might have because his article came out before

741
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 1: the derailment, right before the derailment. Yeah, but it could

742
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: be that he called him. I don't know, But what

743
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: they wanted to know is the details of it where

744
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: he got his details and oh, by the way, who

745
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: gets this magazine? They really wanted to know and it wasn't.

746
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: It was a fairly small publication. It's a teeny publication.

747
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: So here's the deal. I tried to contact him. I

748
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to him about what was going on.

749
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: He never replied to any of our our attempts. So then, yeah,

750
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: which is fine. I totally then turned around and picked

751
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: up I was able to get a back issue of

752
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: this particular magazine for anybody who wants to know. It's

753
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: issue number forty five, which is the fall issue. And

754
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: it's really interesting. I know. I gave it to Joe

755
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: after I'd read it. There's a lot of really cool

756
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: information about the cars that to me, you said, Joe

757
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: could have it first. You know, you could have it next.

758
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of cool information about the cars

759
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: that are in the city of San Francisco line. One

760
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 1: of the things I love about it is how every

761
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: every car gets its own name and that and there

762
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: were too to do great ones Twin Peaks and Chinatown

763
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: because Twin Peaks is one of my favorite TV shows

764
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: way back when. N is one of the best. Yeah,

765
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: great movie. If you haven't seen it, you must see it.

766
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: It actually holds up. I watched it six months ago.

767
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: It totally holds up. But so, yeah, this came out really,

768
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 1: I mean probably like nine or ten days before. No,

769
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: it's more like a month or so. What was the

770
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: October would come out in October or September. So that's

771
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 1: the thing is that it doesn't have a date on

772
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: it says it's the fall issue, and on their website

773
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: they have a month listed. But it had to have

774
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: come out ahead of time. And you know magazines do that.

775
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: You subscribe in September October, Yeah, you get them early.

776
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: But it was a quarterly magazine as well. All it

777
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: came out every three months. But I read the article,

778
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,280
Speaker 1: and the article is really light on details of how

779
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 1: this happened. I figured out a lot more by finding

780
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: drawings and articles that were written by people who were

781
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: analyzing the crash. Is enough though, I mean really, if

782
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: you read that, if you knew about trains, it would

783
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: be enough to tell you how to do it. If

784
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 1: you didn't know about trains, it would be just enough

785
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: to get your run over by a train, I think,

786
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: because you'd be screwed around on the tracks and the

787
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: train would run you all. And I guess one could

788
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: could also argue that if you know about trains, you

789
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 1: probably know how to do something like this. Anyway, Yeah,

790
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: it's not such a hard thing to do. And here's

791
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: the thing is that the majority of the information that

792
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: describes what was done in his article, it is quotes

793
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: from the then in this is in President of Southern Pacific,

794
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: a guy by the name of Angus McDonald, and he

795
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: was talking about it the Rex six days after it happened,

796
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: So it's quotes from him, which I feel like if

797
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: it's in this those quotes were everywhere, so it would

798
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,479
Speaker 1: have been in a ba jillion locations that people could

799
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:16,879
Speaker 1: have pulled that content from. Although not so I mean, yeah, yes,

800
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 1: on the one hand, yes, but you know, from nineteen nine,

801
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 1: it's not as convenient as saying, hey, this thing hits

802
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: someone's mailbox, but conveniently close number of But if you're

803
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: a trained enthusiast, you work on the line, or you

804
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: really like trains, you know your history. I mean, I

805
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: was on some of the forums and the things that

806
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 1: people were rattling off was just like the sheer amount

807
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 1: of information. It's it's kind of like guys who know

808
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: the stats for the Super Bowls or baseball games. I'm

809
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,439
Speaker 1: just I'm just arguing that it's like an OCAM's razor

810
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Is just amazingly it's a huge coincidence

811
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: that these things happened so close together. So while it's

812
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: you know, while it's really easy to say, well, anybody

813
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: could have found that information, that's true, yes, but it

814
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: is super convenient that the information was in someone's mailbox

815
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: within a month of having this happen again. Yeah, and

816
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: even though it was even though it was kind of

817
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 1: light on the details, I mean, there were enough. There's

818
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 1: enough in there, and there were photographs and stuff too

819
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: that showed pretty get in probably enough to have just

820
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: like to spark the idea. Right, if you know about trains,

821
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: I don't know that you necessarily think, I know, I

822
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: will derail a train by doing this thing that I

823
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: know how to do. But if you read a thing

824
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: about it and you go, oh, yeah, that's how I

825
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: can sabotage the train. That's how I can that's into it. Yeah,

826
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: I'm not in disacreem, and I just I feel like

827
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: the magazine may not have been as uh Prime. Yeah,

828
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: well no, it's just the magazine gives it gives you,

829
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: gives you the idea. You're a guy who works for

830
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: the railroad. Let's say, and so you think, oh, I

831
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 1: better know how they did that. They just moved the

832
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: rail over a couple of inches in Waha. Yeah. Well

833
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,439
Speaker 1: let's uh. I think we've we've talked about what happened enough.

834
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: I think we need to get into theories. It's about

835
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: time time. It's way past my bedtime, Okay. Our first

836
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 1: suspect is slash. Theory is sons of Gesta. Yes, let's

837
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: have the shadowy organization. Yeah, Joe, uh so if anybody does,

838
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna need your help here in a second show.

839
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,919
Speaker 1: Anybody who doesn't know you may recognize the name Gestapo. Joe,

840
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to pronounce what that that stands for

841
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: because it's an abbreviation, and I cannot. My German is

842
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: a little rusty. But I would say, is uh guy

843
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 1: him less? Start pull it? Si okay better than me?

844
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: I I just pronounced that. Which But the Gestapo were

845
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: the secret state police in Germany for the Nazis. That's

846
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: probably where you recognize that name from. Absolutely it is

847
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: The easy answer is to think that the sons of

848
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 1: Gestapo are actually the ones that did this and then

849
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: left notes claiming it because they were some kind of racist,

850
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 1: slash hate slash crazy people group. Very easy to think that,

851
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: But as I said before, they never showed up before,

852
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 1: and they never showed up again. I guess I will

853
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: just quickly say that again. I don't know if they

854
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: were right or not. But the flyers, the copies of flyers,

855
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: the texts of flyers that we found, don't seem like

856
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: a racist or hate group. They seem like a paranoid

857
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 1: conspiracy group, but they don't. It doesn't seem like they

858
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 1: are trying to promote some kind of propaganda of hate

859
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: or anything. All right, So does that make sense? Yeah,

860
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 1: that totally makes sense. And yeah, I wanna I wanna

861
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: jump ahead here a little bit because the reason I

862
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: use those terms is that when I took a look

863
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,439
Speaker 1: at the state of Arizona, Oh, there are a lot

864
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: of hate, a lot of hate. There were in two

865
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: thousand and fourteen, there were sixteen active hate groups, plus

866
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: the little ones that just passed under the radar, plus

867
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 1: the little militias. Where did you find this this list

868
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: that I don't remember where I was at, Joe, I was,

869
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: I was doing all kinds of googles on this stuff

870
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: and just kind of information. There's probably much more than that,

871
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: or and maybe there's fewer. But the point is, I

872
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: guess there's a lot of groups that are very secular

873
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: in that manner, which is why I use that term, right,

874
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 1: But I think there are also a lot of groups

875
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,399
Speaker 1: who are not considered hate groups that are that kind

876
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 1: of you know, New World order everything like that that exists,

877
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 1: and they do they often do do these one off things,

878
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 1: you know. It's there's a lot of mysteries that we've

879
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: covered in the past where it's like this one weird

880
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: thing happened and we don't know why, and all of

881
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 1: a sudden we think, oh, it's this one crazy person

882
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 1: who really believes in the New World Order. So I'm

883
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 1: happy to say that it's the Sons of Thank You

884
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: um and that that it's just a one off crazy

885
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: person that has called themselves that, not a group at large. Whatever. Yeah,

886
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean, you know, Timothy McVeigh was kind

887
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: of a one off thing thing too. I suspect this

888
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: was not a group though, But well, let's let's go ahead, though,

889
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: Let's let's suspend all of that. Let's just operate under

890
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: the presumption that Sons of Gestapo is an organization and

891
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,879
Speaker 1: they have some kind of agenda. Sure, okay, even though

892
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: again I've never heard of before and haven't ever heard

893
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:42,240
Speaker 1: of them. Again, it could be some small sell organization.

894
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 1: I don't know. But if you think about what's in

895
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: the letter, the notes ignoring the New World Order part, okay,

896
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 1: let's let's take that out of the frame for a second,

897
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 1: and we only read into the stuff that talks about

898
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: David Koresh and the branch of Vidians, in which, if

899
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: you don't know, for folks who don't, they were an

900
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: organization that the government. The simple version is a lot

901
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: of shots were fired, the place went up and spoke.

902
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: And then if you also think about Ruby Ridge, which

903
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: was a situation where the two guys, Randy Weaver and

904
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: Ken Harris, who the government had a siege on their

905
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: compound and uh Weaver's wife and child were killed. I

906
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: thought it was just his wife and not his not

907
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 1: his baby. They got killed. She was holding the baby,

908
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 1: but I thought she got shot. I thought his sons

909
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: got shot as well. I guess for me, like either way,

910
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: he suffered a great loss. And so somebody may have

911
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: said you and there I remember this as a you know,

912
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 1: I was in high school at the time, and it

913
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 1: was all over the news and people were outraged about

914
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 1: this and oh my gosh, all these things that are

915
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: going on. It may have been that somebody finally said,

916
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: you know what, I have to have an outlet. I

917
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: have to show the world how screwed up this government

918
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 1: is for doing this stuff. And my way of going

919
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: about that is that I'm gonna derail this train, but

920
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 1: this is this is how we're gonna make it happen. Yeah.

921
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 1: The problem with that is is that you're killing a

922
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 1: lot more civilians and government employees number one, number two,

923
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 1: none of them employees of the B A. T. F

924
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: of the FBI. Absolutely true, But but then again, there

925
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 1: was a lot of I'm going to use the phrase

926
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: lone gunman. I mean McVeigh, Timothy McVeigh. He in Oklahoma City.

927
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: It's the I'm know I'm going to pronounce this wrong,

928
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 1: so please if I do, sorry, It's the Alfred P. P.

929
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,399
Speaker 1: Murra Federal Building. That's how it's pronounced it. Every time

930
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: I said it before. I felt like I said from

931
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,919
Speaker 1: but you know he did that. He took the law

932
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: into his own hands. Weird fun fact. By the way,

933
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 1: McVeigh was at Waco handing out flyers in wacos nine.

934
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, yeah, I'm sorry, I confused me. Don't do that.

935
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 1: I'm easily confused. I just thought you meant like he

936
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: was in Wicko when this was happening, not like he

937
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: was in when that was happening, got it, handing up

938
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: pro gun flyers. Of course he was. But it's totally

939
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: totally possible that there was some group who did this

940
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,760
Speaker 1: and then the group disbanded, or it was a person.

941
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: I think I've talked about this before. Have you guys

942
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: read The Monkey Wrench Gang? Yeah, well actually I haven't

943
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: read it, but I've heard of it. Yeah, it's a

944
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 1: I know I've talked about this on the podcast before.

945
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: It's a book from the seventies about radical environmentalists. But

946
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 1: they do this thing, and then once that thing is done,

947
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: they totally disband. I have read that book, Yes, I

948
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: read it in middle school. Yeah, just don't worry about

949
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,439
Speaker 1: why I read it. That's fine, Just don't worry about that. Yeah,

950
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I think was one of the characters. Yeah,

951
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 1: I think the glyns is the book after part of

952
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: it is. I think you don't think it through a lot.

953
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: You don't think about the fact that the authorities are

954
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 1: not going to publish your letter. You would assume you

955
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: leave these letters all around and it's going to make

956
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: it into the news and people are going to spread

957
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: what you're saying, and that's going to happen. And then

958
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 1: you know, you do this thing, which is not great,

959
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 1: and then you weave a letter and you think my

960
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:20,359
Speaker 1: message will be just everywhere, and then the FBI says, no, no, no,

961
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 1: we're no, we're not going to publicize this at all,

962
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: because why wouldn't we publicize this letter, And you go,

963
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: but here's the deal, is open it up for copycats?

964
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: Well but yeah, oh no, you you definitely do. But

965
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: this so this guy. If if these guys were really

966
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 1: a thing and their note didn't get published by the FBI,

967
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 1: all they gotta do is send a letter to a newspaper.

968
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 1: Maybe you're sending letters to several newspapers. That's all you

969
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 1: gotta do. If they had truly been a sort of

970
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: political movement or trying to that's what would have happened

971
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 1: if I agree, I'm not going to disagree with that.

972
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna argue both sides. Okay, fine, that's fine.

973
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: You're gonna stand and go both sides of the tracks. Yeah, okay,

974
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna go to our next theory slash suspect, which

975
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 1: is an angry employee of named angry employee unnamed angry employee. Yeah,

976
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 1: so that's this is a good one. It actually is

977
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: kind of a good one. So if we look at

978
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 1: what happened after the derailment, we're gonna move to Southern Pacific,

979
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: who ran the or managed that portion of the line.

980
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: They were they were merged with Union Pacific, who is

981
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 1: another giant rail line, and people still to this day

982
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,760
Speaker 1: you can see Southern Pacific and Union Pacific cars running

983
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 1: all over this country. If you're near a freight line,

984
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: you'll see them. Um. Well, the mergers of companies a

985
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:46,760
Speaker 1: don't happen overnight and be they tend to not happen

986
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:52,240
Speaker 1: as a surprise. And see everybody always looks at mergers

987
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: as well. There's a bunch of people who are going

988
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: to get laid off. You're going to lose your job

989
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 1: if you're merging. The thought, right is that you are

990
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 1: you already have overlapped that you're competing in, and that

991
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: your goal is to eliminate the competition in that area,

992
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: so that there are two employees there and one of

993
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: them is going to go not always the case, not

994
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 1: always the case. And so the theory here is that

995
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: somebody who was a railroad employee was opposed to the

996
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: merger and worried that they could potentially be losing their

997
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: maybe they were losing their and so what they do

998
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 1: is they went ahead and they intentionally sabotage the line

999
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: in an attempt to make this such a bad thing

1000
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 1: that the merger with Union Pacific wouldn't go through and

1001
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 1: therefore their their position would be safe. That's that's that's

1002
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: really the basis of this. The worst theory I've ever heard.

1003
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 1: It's but there's there's variance on that somebody who got fired,

1004
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: somebody who knew somebody who got fired. That's either by

1005
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: Amtrak or by Southern Pacific. It could be Idlan. So

1006
00:57:57,160 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 1: there's there's been a lot of suspects to look at.

1007
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: But the problem with the I'm opposed to the merger,

1008
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: or we can't we hate amtrack blah blah blah. Is

1009
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 1: that Southern Pacific itself had been in decline for a

1010
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 1: long time. In the early nineteen hundred, Southern Pacific was

1011
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: known as the Octopus because there they had so many

1012
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: long done, they had so many lines, and they sprawled

1013
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: so far all over this country, and their central help

1014
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: was on the west coast. That they were they were huge,

1015
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 1: but of course they were declining just like everybody else.

1016
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: And by the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties they were

1017
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 1: in a dire situation and people were probably more worried

1018
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: about losing their job because the lines were getting shut

1019
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 1: down than anything else. So so the net case, it

1020
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: makes rational sense to not a post a merger and

1021
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: not screw up the line. But you know, and I

1022
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: talked to people all the time who believe all sorts

1023
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 1: of in any things that simply aren't true, And so

1024
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: you know, don't overrule ignorance and dumb. Know that's that's

1025
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 1: an actual thing. Though you're laughing, but I mean it is.

1026
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: Though you're right, I shouldn't be laughing at it, but

1027
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: it is true. There are people who just don't believe

1028
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: any propaganda that's throwing But here's the Here's the interesting

1029
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: thing is that from the job lost perspective, I looked

1030
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 1: up the merger of Union Pacific and Southern Pacific, and

1031
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 1: I couldn't find any reporting that ever talked about the

1032
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: number of jobs that were cut. Doesn't mean jobs weren't cut,

1033
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: but it sounds to me like maybe it wasn't a

1034
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: giant slash and burn operation. It might have been, would

1035
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,919
Speaker 1: have been reported. You have found some news I would

1036
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 1: have expected to, and I never. I never found hardly

1037
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 1: anything about it. None of them ever talked about that,

1038
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 1: So I feel like the merger was kind of an

1039
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 1: amicable thing. Well, the thing about it is, you know,

1040
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: you need if this guy was employed to say, working

1041
00:59:58,160 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 1: on the tracks, which it sounds like he had the

1042
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: tools to do that kind of stuff, then they really

1043
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 1: can't cut that workforce by all that much. If at

1044
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 1: all they still have its probably a pretty thin workforce

1045
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: at that time anywhere. Probably, Yeah, I still have to

1046
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: maintain those tracks. Yeah. And you actually bring up a

1047
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 1: good point right there, which is as an employee, you've

1048
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 1: got the tools, which is kind of an important thing here.

1049
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 1: There's two ways to pull the spikes out. You can

1050
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 1: use a hydraulic tool which makes it go super fast.

1051
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: But you've got to have the truck and the machinery

1052
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: to do that, and it's it's kind of obvious if

1053
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 1: that's happening, or you've got to use a giant pride bar.

1054
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 1: And those pride bars are, you know, pretty the height

1055
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: of a man. They're five or six feet high, the

1056
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: height of a person. Devon, don't give me that. Look.

1057
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 1: There's a third way, okay, uh, when I did this,

1058
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 1: this when I was a kid, and that is you know,

1059
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 1: you and your friends walk along the tracks and you

1060
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: look for loose ones and you pull them out. But

1061
01:00:55,640 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 1: they pulled so many of them out that's impossible, I know,

1062
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: and that's not going to have that kind of luck.

1063
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: But that means that they would have been using company tools,

1064
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,919
Speaker 1: which means they were company tools that nobody could tell

1065
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 1: where they were used at and nobody would look at

1066
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,919
Speaker 1: the company tools and never be able to know if

1067
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 1: the company tools were used on this particular site. It's

1068
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 1: not so hard to find a long crowbar, You're right.

1069
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 1: You can go to you can go to the home

1070
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 1: depot and buy a giant crowbar, but it takes a

1071
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 1: lot of effort. And time to pull those things manually. Well,

1072
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: the hydraulic one is why I think that if it

1073
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: was an employee, it would have been done via hydraul

1074
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: So here's a question, how often do you know how

1075
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 1: often that line was inspected? I don't. Is that something

1076
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: inspected regularly, but I don't know what the frequency of

1077
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: regular means. So I guess my question would be, is

1078
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: that something you can pull a couple spikes up every

1079
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: day or whatever, and then you just wait until it's

1080
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 1: your right hour to pull up the really important ones

1081
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 1: where the lines or the rail are joined to other,

1082
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: push it over and then spike them back down. Is

1083
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 1: that do you think? I mean that's because for me,

1084
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a canvas, right you can pull

1085
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 1: certain pins out and the canvas won't collapse on itself.

1086
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: And then it could be it's something that you would

1087
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 1: be doing over time until you find exactly the right moment.

1088
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 1: I could see if somebody was able to pull let's say,

1089
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 1: half a dozen a day. They I think they pulled

1090
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 1: like spikes something in that neighborhood. It was in the twenties,

1091
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 1: so I could see over the course of two days

1092
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 1: doing it half a dozen more at a time, and

1093
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: then the rail the line not moving, you haven't weakened

1094
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: its foundations, and then on that last day yank and

1095
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:45,920
Speaker 1: the remaining half or third or quarter or whatever. That

1096
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 1: is absolutely plausible. That's absolutely a possible way to do it.

1097
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 1: I't even thought about that. I always imagine this job

1098
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 1: isn't all at once. I you know, I had to

1099
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: until literally that's just the small time. I still think

1100
01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 1: you could have pulled them at once to if you

1101
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 1: had that right to not that hard to people or whatever. Yeah,

1102
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: but I just mean if if, if, if we're saying

1103
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: it was done by a crowbar that you get you know,

1104
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: like ace or home deeper or whatever. It is going

1105
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 1: to take you longer. It is manual work. But if

1106
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 1: that's what you have, you might do it days. Makes

1107
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 1: it easy to not be caught on the track pulling

1108
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: spikes when the next car, next train comes down the line. Yeah,

1109
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 1: well you can hear the trains and field that you can,

1110
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 1: but you know what, you know, people on the guys

1111
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 1: that are driving that train, they see what's down the line,

1112
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 1: and unless it's hidden behind something like that's weird. There

1113
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 1: was some dude on the track yesterday, Hey, somebody reported

1114
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 1: a dude on the track again today there's a thing

1115
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 1: called desert camouflage. But also or standing right under the

1116
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 1: trust all wearing it right now, I can barely see,

1117
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 1: but you hear the train coming, you can feel it.

1118
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 1: For a wild way, just jump right under the bridge,

1119
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 1: right if you're standing under the bridge, they're not going

1120
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 1: to see you standing under there. You just sit down

1121
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:03,919
Speaker 1: for all it goes by and then you know. Yeah.

1122
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 1: The other thing about the spot that they picked her

1123
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:09,440
Speaker 1: I should say he picked is there's uh or she

1124
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: come on terrorism here is that there's a road just

1125
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 1: to the east of the rail line, although it's not

1126
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 1: much of a road. Uh, it's really hardly a road

1127
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 1: at all. But that's that was but that that wasn't

1128
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 1: the case back then. Oh yeah, it wasn't there then,

1129
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: because I would imagine it would be for maintenance purposes

1130
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: and such. According to the articles and stuff that I've read,

1131
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 1: a lot of the roads were at best barely there

1132
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: because they were farmland. So it wasn't an easy It

1133
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 1: took an hour and a half to get to the

1134
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 1: wreck side of the side of the wreck from Phoenix,

1135
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: so you were driving on these ad bad roads now today,

1136
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 1: evidently it doesn't take that long because the roads are

1137
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 1: much better. But they've been created, so I don't know,

1138
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 1: but don't rely on that, right, Okay. I was going

1139
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 1: to move to our next theory slash suspect, and let's

1140
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 1: you have any other on that that? Okay, really our

1141
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 1: last Oh, actually fun fact before we move on. You

1142
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 1: keep saying fun fact and then not saying things that

1143
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 1: are fun. This is actually a fun fact. So I

1144
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 1: didn't know this until my research. But according to the Internet,

1145
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 1: you know who Sprint is, right, like the phone company,

1146
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 1: the cell phone company. H turns out, according to the

1147
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 1: research that I came across, Sprint was created by Southern Pacific. Well,

1148
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 1: it was created. Uh. The acronym of Sprint stands for

1149
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: Southern Pacific Railroad Internal Network networking telephone. That's what's a telephone? No,

1150
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: I don't care, it's telephony. No, it's telephone. It was.

1151
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 1: It was an internal communications system and then it and

1152
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 1: they branched it out and it eventually became Sprint the cellphone.

1153
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 1: There you go. So, hey, something good, something large from

1154
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 1: Southern Pacific. Last theory, it was somebody angry at the

1155
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 1: rail line because they were the rail line was taking

1156
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 1: their land, because when it's a government organization, they don't

1157
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 1: know if anybody you've ever had this where they annex

1158
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 1: your land, they say, hey, we're gonna pay you a

1159
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 1: price for this land, and you say take a hike.

1160
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 1: They say, well, you can give it to us for

1161
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 1: this amount of money, or we can just take it.

1162
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 1: Called Yes, because my family had property taken for that

1163
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 1: very reason where they take it for the greater good

1164
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 1: of the country. Yes, that's exactly. It was an access

1165
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 1: road and right, well yeah, yeah, but they pay you

1166
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 1: a rate, and it could very well be that somebody

1167
01:06:56,280 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 1: was p oed because it was that and was taken

1168
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 1: from them, or it ran through the middle of their farmland.

1169
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: And it's a giant nuisance because you can't drive across

1170
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: the field. You gotta drive twenty minutes that way and

1171
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 1: then hang a left turn and then hang another left

1172
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 1: turn and drag twenty minutes back the other direction when

1173
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 1: you could have just gone two minutes straight. This feels

1174
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 1: silly because we literally just talked about the fact that

1175
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:24,600
Speaker 1: this rail line had been established since like the late

1176
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds. Right, that's true, But they move not they

1177
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 1: move lines, and they upgrade lines and they may have expanded.

1178
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, Devon. I'm saying that this

1179
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 1: is the theory that is out the theory. I'm just

1180
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:40,640
Speaker 1: dispelling it. I agree that the problem is this sounds

1181
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 1: like crazy farmer John when freaking crazy and did this

1182
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 1: crazy thing because he's crazy farmer John. And that's all

1183
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:51,480
Speaker 1: there is to the theory. Yeah, there's not much there. Yeah, yeah,

1184
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: So I was just giving my two cents of I

1185
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: feel like that's dumb because I feel like the train

1186
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 1: through rail has been there forever train rails a technical term.

1187
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 1: And here's the other thing. Is the other thing is

1188
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 1: that is that after you've you've done your dear nasty

1189
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 1: deat against Southern Pacific and AMTRAC, guess what, the tracks

1190
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 1: don't go away. They're still there. Huh. If you really

1191
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 1: wanted to do that, you would get rid of that

1192
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 1: whole trustle, right, you would, really you get rid of

1193
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 1: a big old chunk of the rail. Well, you do

1194
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 1: something way more destructive. Wait, wait, Devin, you you just

1195
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,960
Speaker 1: may have hit on something, which is if you remember

1196
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:32,640
Speaker 1: the nine nine City of San Francisco line, when that derailed,

1197
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 1: destroyed the trestle. They actually moved. Joe was and I

1198
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:39,640
Speaker 1: were talking about this the other day. Is if you

1199
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 1: look at pictures of where that line is now, they've

1200
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 1: moved it. They've taken out one of the trestles, they

1201
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 1: moved the line so it only crosses the river once.

1202
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 1: And that maybe somebody who had that idea that like

1203
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 1: the are you. Then they would have to not know

1204
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 1: anything about trains, which goes against everything that we've been

1205
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 1: talking about, because they would have to know. They would

1206
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 1: have to not know that the car improvements had been

1207
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 1: made so that they don't do that anymore. I mean,

1208
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 1: this is both ways your damn if If you don't,

1209
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 1: I think it's probably not. You might be a local

1210
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:16,679
Speaker 1: recor rescue worker who wanted some overtime. I don't think

1211
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 1: that's it. You don't think so, Okay, that's all of

1212
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 1: my theories. You guys got anything else? I got a

1213
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 1: couple of theories. Okay, this is a fun one one possibility.

1214
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:29,200
Speaker 1: And this again it's like, you know, kind of weak

1215
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 1: but just conjecture. But maybe somebody on the train had

1216
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:34,640
Speaker 1: an enemy who wanted him dead. It's Joe's go to

1217
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 1: theory time. Kids. This is why I really wish people

1218
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 1: could hear my eyes roll. Yeah, if we were doing

1219
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 1: like the show, that would be much improved. But it

1220
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:47,799
Speaker 1: is possible though, it's just certainly I think more plausible

1221
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:52,360
Speaker 1: in the crazy Farmer theory. I would agree, I would Yeah.

1222
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:53,560
Speaker 1: And you know, it could have been it could have

1223
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:56,640
Speaker 1: been somebody, say who it could have been one of

1224
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: the crew, like say, you know the engineer or the conductor,

1225
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 1: who you know the guy who did get killed? Even

1226
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 1: possibly they knew they were gonna be on that train

1227
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:09,720
Speaker 1: and they knew when the train ran, and yeah's apply one.

1228
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 1: Another possibility is that it was just just some random,

1229
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 1: twisted lunatic like kind of like the Union bomber. Have

1230
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 1: you ever heard of Sylvester Matushka. Why do I recognize

1231
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 1: that name? Yeah? Wait? Wait is he? Wait? Wait? Is

1232
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 1: he in Europe? Yeah? Hungarian? Yes, I know who you're

1233
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 1: talking about. Yeah, he has a mechanical engineer who got

1234
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 1: a really got a charge out of causing train crashes.

1235
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:35,800
Speaker 1: So he yeah, and so at night and like August

1236
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:46,720
Speaker 1: August thirty one, he caused a derail with nineteen thirty one. Yeah,

1237
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:50,439
Speaker 1: he he derailed the Berlin Bosel Express train in Germany.

1238
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 1: And no desks in that case, but a lot of

1239
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 1: people got injured. And then a month later in September,

1240
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,519
Speaker 1: he blew up a bridge. This it was a Vieta

1241
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 1: express us was going towards Vienna and caught it crossed

1242
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 1: a bridge over a deep ravine near Budapest, and he

1243
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:10,840
Speaker 1: blew up the bridge. It plunged into the ravine. Twenty

1244
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:12,599
Speaker 1: two people died and a whole bunch of other people

1245
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 1: get severely And he psycho that he was, he was,

1246
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:18,799
Speaker 1: he was right there on the spot because he was apparently,

1247
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 1: like I said, got off on this. And at the

1248
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 1: time when when the guilty party at the scene of

1249
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:27,400
Speaker 1: the crime, jumping up and down going yeah, I know.

1250
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 1: Well at the time he was. He was questioned a

1251
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 1: little bit, but he said he had been riding on

1252
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:33,679
Speaker 1: the train and he just crawled out and that's why

1253
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 1: you're standing here. And so they let him go. But

1254
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 1: eventually the law caught up with him later. It's an

1255
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 1: interesting story, but his his motive was apparently, and he

1256
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 1: was quoted as saying, quote, direct trains because I like

1257
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 1: to see people die. I like to hear them scream unquote.

1258
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 1: So maybe it was just some flaming psycho. That's possible.

1259
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:56,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't rule it out, absolutely cannot. Yeah.

1260
01:11:57,320 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 1: So yeah, interesting thing about Sylvester anyway, he got he

1261
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 1: got tried for his crimes and he was locked away

1262
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:05,519
Speaker 1: in prison, but he escaped in and he was never

1263
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:09,880
Speaker 1: heard from again. Yeah, another mystery. We let's talk about

1264
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 1: that one someday. Okay. Uh, So we're at the end. Uh.

1265
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 1: The reassurances that I wanted to give people. I think

1266
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 1: we've talked about a that they well the lines together

1267
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 1: now for the most part, and they are doing that

1268
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 1: a to make it a more comfortable run to to

1269
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 1: be because people can't sabotage the line, well not not

1270
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:34,519
Speaker 1: in that particular way. They can still sabotage the line,

1271
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:36,320
Speaker 1: but yes, they can't do it the way that we've

1272
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:40,840
Speaker 1: talked about. And see it actually makes the line itself

1273
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 1: overall more structurally sound therefore reduces wear and tear. So

1274
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 1: that that's a really big reason why they do. The

1275
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 1: other thing that we talked about that is a reassurance

1276
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: for folks is that the connections between cars today are

1277
01:12:56,439 --> 01:13:00,800
Speaker 1: engineered to withstand a force at nine miles an hour

1278
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:05,400
Speaker 1: and words, trains don't ever go, not not often definitely

1279
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 1: start building high speed rail. Hey yeah, but then those

1280
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:15,559
Speaker 1: trains do go sixty plus to seventy plus, but they can.

1281
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:19,680
Speaker 1: But the point is they are built to withstand the

1282
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:24,840
Speaker 1: strain put on them at twist torsion. Tortion is the

1283
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 1: word I'm looking for while moving at nine miles. So

1284
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:30,720
Speaker 1: they're not going to break, which is why they are

1285
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 1: so much safer. And we don't get the crazy pilots.

1286
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:36,880
Speaker 1: So take trains, guys. So trains are still safe just

1287
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:45,559
Speaker 1: like planes. I really really swear they are. Yeah they are. Okay, Well,

1288
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:48,720
Speaker 1: let's get onto the fun details, the last little bits

1289
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 1: and bits that we have, the parts that you all

1290
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:53,240
Speaker 1: skip over, yep, So don't go ahead, because we have

1291
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 1: little things in here that we need to talk about

1292
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 1: you need to be aware of, so no skipping this time.

1293
01:13:57,640 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 1: First off, we're gonna talk about our website. Website is,

1294
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:03,519
Speaker 1: of course, Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. We're going to

1295
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:07,439
Speaker 1: have the episodes to listen to and download there. We

1296
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:10,559
Speaker 1: have transcripts. Now, we've got some folks helping us with

1297
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 1: transcripts again, so we've got transcripts on there. Also, we

1298
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:18,439
Speaker 1: have research links for each episode, a couple of them

1299
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 1: per episode, on there. We also have the option on

1300
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:25,680
Speaker 1: the right hand bar. We've still got merchandise available. We've

1301
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:29,240
Speaker 1: added a bunch of merchandise, and we also have a

1302
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 1: couple of ways to donate to the show if you

1303
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 1: want to. This is totally optional, but there is the

1304
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 1: option of using Patreon, which is patreon dot com slash

1305
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:44,000
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways, which is a reoccurring donation per episode, totally

1306
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:48,120
Speaker 1: totally up to you and not required in any way,

1307
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:50,599
Speaker 1: shape or form. Or if you want to do one time,

1308
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 1: you can totally do that as well. That is available PayPal.

1309
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:58,280
Speaker 1: Super appreciate you guys, have no idea how much that

1310
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:00,880
Speaker 1: saved us. I do want to talk talk about the

1311
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:04,000
Speaker 1: fact that everybody has probably figured out by now we're

1312
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:07,200
Speaker 1: talking to you from the future. The future, but we

1313
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:10,479
Speaker 1: have a bunch of issues with downloads in the past

1314
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:12,880
Speaker 1: being slow or not working, and then we had the

1315
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:16,519
Speaker 1: server problems and things were a giant mess and we

1316
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 1: got a lemon. We were sold a product that didn't work,

1317
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 1: and I apologize. But by the time this has come out,

1318
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 1: I've been working hours on end so far we've almost

1319
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:28,759
Speaker 1: got it all squared away. Everything should be fine. Thank

1320
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 1: you for being patient. With us and at this point,

1321
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 1: if we've got it figured out right, which we never

1322
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:39,640
Speaker 1: have this problem again, which we said last time. This

1323
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:42,040
Speaker 1: time we have it on good authority from some other

1324
01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:46,720
Speaker 1: podcasts that people like that we listened to. Sometimes they're

1325
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:51,000
Speaker 1: always asking why, Okay, let's move on to the other

1326
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:53,400
Speaker 1: stuff that we've got here. You're gonna be listening to

1327
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:56,240
Speaker 1: us through iTunes, Uh, some people are a lot of

1328
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 1: people are still doing that. You can find us on

1329
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:02,760
Speaker 1: there if you do subscribe and leave a rating for

1330
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:07,679
Speaker 1: iTunes and all other streaming sources. Our podcast fee did move,

1331
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:11,559
Speaker 1: So if you are noticing issues with it not updating

1332
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 1: with the current stuff, and you see this stuff on

1333
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:16,560
Speaker 1: social media on our website, you may have to unsubscribe

1334
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 1: and resubscribe because those things sometimes don't always catch the update.

1335
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:23,759
Speaker 1: So just so you know that. But I said streaming,

1336
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:26,920
Speaker 1: we're streaming on well just about everywhere you can stream

1337
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:29,840
Speaker 1: at this point, So use whatever tool you want to use.

1338
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:32,559
Speaker 1: And by the way, if you can review us on those,

1339
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:37,479
Speaker 1: that'd be awesome. To wait a minute. On Twitter, we

1340
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:41,479
Speaker 1: are on Twitter where you cannot stream us, but on

1341
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 1: Twitter we are thinking sideways. You can see some awesome

1342
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 1: memes and some tumbler stuff and also lots of pictures

1343
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:51,120
Speaker 1: of trains, yes, and fake pictures of Devon. Devin Devin,

1344
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:54,800
Speaker 1: I I'm Devin. I run the Twitter, so if you

1345
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:57,679
Speaker 1: like me, you should follow us on Twitter suddenly turned

1346
01:16:57,680 --> 01:17:00,680
Speaker 1: into a population cut. You know, we hit We hit

1347
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:04,479
Speaker 1: more than two thousand followers this past week. I didn't

1348
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:08,200
Speaker 1: know that. Yeah, good job. Thank you all of your memes.

1349
01:17:08,280 --> 01:17:11,800
Speaker 1: I've actually started using the memes. I'm badly using them

1350
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 1: and I drive. The other places that you can see

1351
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:17,080
Speaker 1: as used memes would be on Facebook. We have the

1352
01:17:17,120 --> 01:17:20,840
Speaker 1: Facebook page and the Facebook group. Uh so both of those.

1353
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 1: The page has a lot of stuck content. The group

1354
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 1: is where everybody gets together and does their discussions about

1355
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:29,919
Speaker 1: different bits from episodes and just whatever we all find interesting.

1356
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 1: We have the ability to receive emails. The emails would

1357
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:38,240
Speaker 1: come through Gmail because it is Thinking Sideways podcast at

1358
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. You have feedback about an episode, do

1359
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:44,479
Speaker 1: you have an episode suggestion, or you have questions or

1360
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 1: concerns about something, Please the immediate answers to send us

1361
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:52,000
Speaker 1: an email and let's talk about it. Usually there's a

1362
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 1: very simple answer, rather than folks sometimes get upset and

1363
01:17:55,560 --> 01:18:00,719
Speaker 1: they will post a comments, comments on our website or

1364
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:02,880
Speaker 1: things like iTunes, and then it's hard to have the

1365
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:06,599
Speaker 1: conversation because they're buried in that massive stuff. So send

1366
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:08,800
Speaker 1: us an first. We like talking to you. Also, don't

1367
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 1: forget we have a subreddit. We do. It's thinking Sideways,

1368
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:15,240
Speaker 1: not Thinking sideways pod. Uh, you can find us. It's

1369
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:18,880
Speaker 1: not super active, but there are episode discussions that happen sometimes,

1370
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:20,759
Speaker 1: and the more users we get there, the more active

1371
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 1: it will be. So if you if you like, if

1372
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 1: you're a Reddit user, that's a place to hang out,

1373
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:27,760
Speaker 1: and the more of you that are there, the more

1374
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:29,880
Speaker 1: it's going to be active. It's like our Facebook page.

1375
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:32,640
Speaker 1: That thing was super slow forever in a day, and

1376
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:34,360
Speaker 1: then suddenly there was a whole group of people and

1377
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:38,839
Speaker 1: now it's constantly busy. Someday I can't think of anything

1378
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:40,920
Speaker 1: else that I have to tell anybody? Can you? Guys,

1379
01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:43,320
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk in ears anymore? Done? You

1380
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:46,559
Speaker 1: don't want what talking to people's ears anymore? Okay? I

1381
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:49,200
Speaker 1: can accept that. So Devin has done talking into your ear.

1382
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:52,280
Speaker 1: So we're gonna go ahead and in the episode, uh

1383
01:18:52,439 --> 01:19:03,360
Speaker 1: so until next week. Woo stole my line everybody,