Speaker 1: One of the questions I'm always asked is how do
Speaker 1: I get through this? And it's really tough, and you
Speaker 1: feel it, it hurts, and then you put your shoulders back,
Speaker 1: you put your head up, you'll hug your friends and
Speaker 1: your family, and you just keep going. So as you
Speaker 1: know that commissioners decide what's gonna happen, and then there's
Speaker 1: always this plan to send letters and to talk to
Speaker 1: them and kind of get a feel for where they're going.
Speaker 1: And last time we did that, we were so helpful.
Speaker 1: The night before we thought, oh, this is it, so
Speaker 1: hopeful and it turned out really crappy. So tonight, based
Speaker 1: on some of the information, we're not so hopeful. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna let Laurie say that prayer and we're gonna
Speaker 1: just keep going. Okay, Lisa, can you come over so
Speaker 1: we can all kind of be close.
Speaker 2: Dear Heavenly Father, we ask Lord to do only what
Speaker 2: you can do that you would bring us the outcome
Speaker 2: that we want. We ask that you would speak with
Speaker 2: the people on this board who are gonna make this
Speaker 2: life altering decision for Leo and Chrissy. We ask Lord
Speaker 2: that you would speak to their hearts, that you would
Speaker 2: give them that, knowing in the bottom of their soul
Speaker 2: that they would be doing the right thing by granting
Speaker 2: him parole. We just ask and pray, and we are
Speaker 2: begging on our knees that it is the outcome that
Speaker 2: we so desire. We love you, Lord, we praise you,
Speaker 2: and we pray this in your son Christ's name. Amen.
Speaker 3: Amen, do you hear my mind? I have to hide
Speaker 3: my feelings saw roosetemps sorry lists in this valle te
Speaker 3: na see ralation o my long water rage, das rash
Speaker 3: to the one who's holding.
Speaker 4: The star.
Speaker 3: To the warm solding stop to the warming sort.
Speaker 5: This is a special bonus episode of Bone Valley. The
Speaker 5: day before Leo's parole hearing, Scott Kup and I had
Speaker 5: one last chance to meet with the commissioners who would
Speaker 5: decide if Leo was going to be granted parole. Going
Speaker 5: into these meetings, we had some insight about where the
Speaker 5: commissioners might stand. The commission's chair, Melinda Kunrod, had been
Speaker 5: asking Leo's lawyers questions that seemed to indicate she believes
Speaker 5: in Leo's innocence. The second Commissioner, David Wyant, is a
Speaker 5: former police officer from Polk County. We heard he'd had
Speaker 5: a close relationship with the former state Attorney Jerry Hill,
Speaker 5: and he'd be the commissioner least receptive toward granting Leo parole.
Speaker 5: That left Commissioner Richard Davison the third vote, the wild card,
Speaker 5: the one who would probably passed the tie breaking vote
Speaker 5: in determining Leo's fate. So we came to Tallahassee for
Speaker 5: a meeting with Davison just twenty four hours before the
Speaker 5: official ruling would be made at Leo's May third parole hearing.
Speaker 5: Kelsey was outside waiting for me and Scott when we
Speaker 5: walked out of.
Speaker 6: The meeting.
Speaker 7: The car.
Speaker 8: No, it's really bad and he's not gonna talk right now.
Speaker 9: I can't.
Speaker 8: I'm sorry, fucking disaster.
Speaker 10: He's been talking to the tenth and went over and
Speaker 10: he said, I've listened to both sides now and I'm
Speaker 10: just not convinced he's innocent. And I'm going to vote
Speaker 10: for twenty four months at Everglades and he says, maybe
Speaker 10: they'll be an epiphany tomorrow, but that's the way I'm voting.
Speaker 10: He started talking to me about bloodstains, and it's just
Speaker 10: fucking very clear that the state is talking to him
Speaker 10: and giving him all sorts of bullshit about the evidence.
Speaker 10: He goes, where's the blood. There's no blood. Where's the
Speaker 10: blood at the canal? I was like, it's fucking there.
Speaker 10: You want to see the picture. FDL says it in
Speaker 10: the transcript, that's where her blood is. And he's arguing
Speaker 10: that shit with me, and I just you know, he said,
Speaker 10: this is not about guilt or innocence anyway, but he says,
Speaker 10: I'm a creature of the system, and I have to
Speaker 10: believe that what the courts have sucided is correct.
Speaker 8: And the courts are saying he's guilty.
Speaker 10: And he said, I didn't hear one thing in your
Speaker 10: podcast that was inaccurate to me. Okay, well, then you
Speaker 10: know he's innocent. What I just never forget the words
Speaker 10: he said, I'm a creature of the system the courts
Speaker 10: have ruled, and he's not willing to acknowledge that there
Speaker 10: are mistakes made, which you know, he did write the
Speaker 10: report to give clemency to the Groven Force, so he
Speaker 10: knows that mistakes are made and just won't do it.
Speaker 10: And you know, I mean, I'm just imagining that Wyant
Speaker 10: is in the same boat. We saw Wyant in the hallway,
Speaker 10: asked him if you would meet with us. He said,
Speaker 10: I'm busy, I'm busy, give me a call my cellphone
Speaker 10: and just walked away. Twenty four months.
Speaker 3: That I everglades twenty four months?
Speaker 9: Two fucking years?
Speaker 3: Why two years?
Speaker 10: Well, the thing he did say, unless I have an epiphany,
Speaker 10: that's gonna be my vote. And so we just talked
Speaker 10: about keep an open mind for the epiphany.
Speaker 8: But I don't know, was the worst meeting I've ever
Speaker 8: been in my life.
Speaker 10: We gave Scott a minute to process what had just happened,
Speaker 10: and then we got in the car with him and left,
Speaker 10: knowing that we'd be back the next morning for the hearing.
Speaker 4: Two years.
Speaker 11: So let's think about that.
Speaker 12: You don't give a flying fuck whether this man is
Speaker 12: guilty or innocent.
Speaker 4: That's what it boils out.
Speaker 10: He has to respect.
Speaker 5: Scott knew he owed Leo an update about the meetings.
Speaker 5: He tried to get Leo on the phone to tell
Speaker 5: him about what just happened, but he couldn't get through.
Speaker 5: Scott forwarded me the email he sent him. Hey Davison
Speaker 5: says he listened to the podcast, but he is still
Speaker 5: inclined to vote extension to Everglades for the lifers. We
Speaker 5: may still be able to convince him to straight parole
Speaker 5: to Noah's and that's what we're working on now and.
Speaker 8: Going into the evening.
Speaker 10: We're still at the worst case scenario of transfer to Everglades.
Speaker 10: Please try to hang in there. We are not finished
Speaker 10: by any stretch. I will keep sending you emails through
Speaker 10: the evening as I get more info. I still know
Speaker 10: God has this. I pray you agree, Scott. After we'd
Speaker 10: met with the commissioner, as I got a text from
Speaker 10: Chrissy just said I need to talk and then yea,
Speaker 10: she knows Leo must have got that thing and knew
Speaker 10: it and called her. I'm gonna have to just give
Speaker 10: her some hope.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 13: I just can't.
Speaker 8: I can't just tell her it's came over because I
Speaker 8: don't know it's over. I mean, it's not hasn't been
Speaker 8: voted on yet.
Speaker 14: Yeah, yeah, exactly, because he's ready, she says, I prefer
Speaker 14: not to record.
Speaker 8: Okay, let me just turn this off. Then sorry, she
Speaker 8: never does this, so she's gonna be upset.
Speaker 10: Okay, here we go, crazy, Hey, where are you right now?
Speaker 5: Called her, and.
Speaker 10: She's as upset as I've ever heard her in knowing her.
Speaker 10: She was just crying and venting. She was frustrated. It's okay,
Speaker 10: you don't have to apologize for anything. No, you don't apologize, Chrissy.
Speaker 10: If I know this, I know, it's okay.
Speaker 3: You can do it to me.
Speaker 8: It's okay. The stress about this and just knowing that
Speaker 8: you have another defeat coming, I know, can't even imagine
Speaker 8: what that's like. It's I don't know, it's a really
Speaker 8: hard place to be in and to hear somebody just
Speaker 8: desperate and you know, in tears.
Speaker 4: It's just.
Speaker 8: Brutal. And you know, I think there's probably some hope that,
Speaker 8: like this story is going to change everything, and you
Speaker 8: know kind of didn't I know exactly.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry.
Speaker 8: She's she said, I'm in desperation mode. What else is there?
Speaker 8: Someone else? We got to try something different.
Speaker 10: We're all sitting here thinking, just scrambling and trying to
Speaker 10: do last minute things. And is there is there a
Speaker 10: magic thing to that was said that that will change
Speaker 10: their minds? I mean, if you have any ideas about that,
Speaker 10: I don't know. She said, Well, then we need a miracle.
Speaker 10: We have to pray for a miracle, and you know, well,
Speaker 10: that's all well and good, but I'm just thinking there's
Speaker 10: not gonna be any miracles in that f court building tomorrow.
Speaker 8: Man, that has gone through the motions tomorrow is gonna suck.
Speaker 10: Yeah, And just seeing people who are like hopeful and
Speaker 10: us standing around knowing what's gonna happen should I'm feeling
Speaker 10: it now. It's just this home court advantage that they have.
Speaker 10: They have, it's all stacked in their favor and reason logic,
Speaker 10: the right thing doesn't really matter. Winning matters. I can't
Speaker 10: distance myself from me like it should be just like, well,
Speaker 10: this is the story I'm reporting. It's unfortunate for all
Speaker 10: the people arout like no, we're in it, and I mean,
Speaker 10: I don't know what to do.
Speaker 8: That's you know, we're still reporting on everything. But it's
Speaker 8: just how do you not feel this?
Speaker 6: Man?
Speaker 8: I just know what's wrong.
Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 7: I'm Jason Flamm, CEO and founder of Lava for Good podcasts,
Speaker 7: Home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War on Drugs,
Speaker 7: and many other great podcasts. Today we're asking you, our listeners,
Speaker 7: to take part in a survey. Your feedback is going
Speaker 7: to help inform how we make podcasts in the future.
Speaker 7: Your complete and candid answers will help us continue to
Speaker 7: bring you more insightful and inspiring stories about important topics
Speaker 7: that impact us all. So please go to lava for
Speaker 7: goood dot com slash survey and participate today. Thank you
Speaker 7: for your support.
Speaker 5: Bone Valley is sponsored by Stand Together. Stand Together is
Speaker 5: a philanthropic community that partners with America's boldest change makers
Speaker 5: to tackle the root causes of our country's biggest problems,
Speaker 5: including the broken criminal justice system. Weldon Angelos is one
Speaker 5: of those change makers. At the age of twenty three,
Speaker 5: Weldon was arrested for a first time offense of selling
Speaker 5: weed to a confidential informant. At the time, he was
Speaker 5: a budding musician spending time with artists like Tupac Snoop Dogg, Pink,
Speaker 5: and Gnase. His entire life was ahead of him when
Speaker 5: he was sentenced to a mandatory fifty five years in
Speaker 5: federal prison without the possibility of early release. After serving
Speaker 5: thirteen years, a bipartisan effort led to him getting officially pardoned.
Speaker 5: Upon his release, he founded The Weldon Project, a nonprofit
Speaker 5: working to create better outcomes for those still in prison
Speaker 5: that funds social change and provides financial aid for all
Speaker 5: those who were still serving time for cannabis related offenses.
Speaker 5: Weldon Angelos is one of the many entrepreneurs partnering with
Speaker 5: Stand Together to drive solutions in education, healthcare, poverty, and
Speaker 5: criminal justice. To learn more about the War on Drugs,
Speaker 5: listen to the War on Drugs podcast on Apple Podcasts
Speaker 5: or wherever you get your podcasts. The night before the hearing,
Speaker 5: we had dinner reservations at a restaurant in Tallahassee with
Speaker 5: Chrissy Ashley, her two baby boys, and some of their
Speaker 5: close friends who had made the trek up to Tallahassee
Speaker 5: to support them. The dinner was supposed to be about hope,
Speaker 5: final chance to come together and center themselves for the
Speaker 5: next day, but after the news from the meetings, the
Speaker 5: mood was somber. Leo's best friend and bandmate, Kevin Herrick
Speaker 5: his family showed up to be with Chrissy. They've known
Speaker 5: Leo and Chrissy for decades. Kevin's sister Laurie led everyone
Speaker 5: in prayer.
Speaker 2: We ask right now for comfort for Leo. We can't
Speaker 2: even imagine Lord, what he's going through right now. I
Speaker 2: pray that you surround him right now, this evening tomorrow
Speaker 2: morning with people who love him, who can lift him
Speaker 2: up and bring him comfort. And we ask that you
Speaker 2: bring him comfort Lord, as we know only you can
Speaker 2: do in times like this when we feel that you know,
Speaker 2: everything is out of our control, but we know that
Speaker 2: everything goes through your hands first. So we are accepting that.
Speaker 2: We are, as Chrissy said, lifting our heads high, and
Speaker 2: we are leaving this at the altar.
Speaker 4: High shudders back.
Speaker 15: We're okay, We're okay, yes we are, We're good.
Speaker 3: This is gonna work.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 10: Those are the boys came in Leo's grandsons and just
Speaker 10: like he know, I wanted to hug from one of
Speaker 10: those kids. I just wanted to hold those kids. So
Speaker 10: that was for me. Yeah, you know, I definitely understand
Speaker 10: why so many people.
Speaker 8: Are religious in this world because if you have no
Speaker 8: hope this and you got to believe in something and
Speaker 8: this is it and it's happening right in front of me, and.
Speaker 10: Uh, I'm all in.
Speaker 5: While we sat at dinner with Chrissy, Scott was sending
Speaker 5: me messages. He was working to pull whatever strings he
Speaker 5: could to trigger that epiphany. You know, Scott also.
Speaker 10: Recognized that, you know, we need to rawther kitchen sink
Speaker 10: at this and pull out all the stops everything, and
Speaker 10: you know, we agreed.
Speaker 8: We need Jonathan here.
Speaker 5: Senator Jonathan Martin had already told us that he thought
Speaker 5: Leo was innocent and should not only be paroled, he
Speaker 5: should be exonerated. He's also the chair of the Florida
Speaker 5: Senate's Committee on Criminal Justice and has oversight of the
Speaker 5: Florida Commission on a Fender Review. Those three appointed officials
Speaker 5: who'd be making the decision to grant Leo parole or not.
Speaker 5: His presence at the hearing might be Leo's last hope.
Speaker 10: If he could appear, you know, and with him and
Speaker 10: Scott speaking together about this, I think that if that
Speaker 10: could happen, that might be the Hail Mary pass. We
Speaker 10: need something really powerful, something that was kind of like
Speaker 10: a game changer.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 10: Davidson talked about wanting to have some kind of epiphany,
Speaker 10: and I said, that's what we need, something so powerful
Speaker 10: that it's going to change the vote.
Speaker 5: But this is the last week of the legislative session
Speaker 5: in Tallahassee, and Senator Martin has to be present to vote,
Speaker 5: so showing up at a parole hearing might not even
Speaker 5: be possible.
Speaker 13: He had said early on, I'll do whatever I can,
Speaker 13: if I can, if I'm available. So I texted him
Speaker 13: a couple of times. He wasn't responding to the text.
Speaker 13: I didn't read anything negative into it. I just was like,
Speaker 13: he's inundated, and I get it. You know, he's got
Speaker 13: major responsibilities.
Speaker 4: Ah.
Speaker 5: I called him last night.
Speaker 13: Left a voicemail, and I left a pretty long text
Speaker 13: was basically help, please help, because I was panicked. And
Speaker 13: within fifteen minutes of that text, I got a text
Speaker 13: from Jonathan very short, I'll be there at nine o'clock,
Speaker 13: and then I had to text back that we're not
Speaker 13: scheduled till ten, so then start panicking again.
Speaker 5: The next morning, Scott pulled into the parking lot for
Speaker 5: the hearing. He didn't know whether or not Senator Martin.
Speaker 8: Would really be there. He's pulling in.
Speaker 13: Right next to me.
Speaker 8: At the same time, he goes, I'm gonna go sit
Speaker 8: in the front row. See if that helps.
Speaker 13: You can't miss him. He's like six seven six eight,
Speaker 13: That's what he did.
Speaker 5: Senator Martin promised to make an appearance, but with the
Speaker 5: timing and a schedule. He might not be able to
Speaker 5: stay until Leo's case was called, but he was promising
Speaker 5: Scott he'd stay for as long as he could.
Speaker 16: I was sitting there and like the dread really hit me.
Speaker 16: I was so aware of my blood pressure, like it
Speaker 16: was just through the roof.
Speaker 10: And then the commissioner, the chair announced that we're going
Speaker 10: to take a short three minute break and we're going
Speaker 10: to come back and we're going to start with the
Speaker 10: Schofield case, and we're going to do that one first.
Speaker 10: And you could tell there was some buzz in the
Speaker 10: crowd because everybody was there for Leo's case.
Speaker 5: And it just made me think, all right, three minutes,
Speaker 5: that's the countdown, Okay.
Speaker 16: Keep ready. And then when the hearing actually started, seeing
Speaker 16: all of our familiar faces around, and I don't know,
Speaker 16: I feel like I was worried about you.
Speaker 10: I didn't even know what I was supposed to do
Speaker 10: except sit there and just suffer. And that was that
Speaker 10: was the hard part, just feeling like, well, I'm just
Speaker 10: gonna be watching this and I know where it's going.
Speaker 8: It's just gonna be painful, all right.
Speaker 15: I'll go ahead and use meaning to order for the
Speaker 15: full commission is ten am. We're back on the record.
Speaker 15: If everyone could please take your seat, if you are
Speaker 15: not going to be speaking.
Speaker 16: Seeing the commissioners walk in and like you know, making
Speaker 16: eye contact with them and knowing like that they know
Speaker 16: what I'm thinking, and like I know what they're thinking,
Speaker 16: and there's just like that recognition and I don't know
Speaker 16: that that felt really intense.
Speaker 10: I felt.
Speaker 16: I was like, oh, why did we choose to sit
Speaker 16: in the front row. I feel like very vulnerable and.
Speaker 8: Exposed right now.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I'm just it's
Speaker 10: just a totally helpless feeling, like, you know, after all
Speaker 10: we've done and everything, and it was just like it's
Speaker 10: really difficult to sit there and like maintain any kind
Speaker 10: of hope.
Speaker 3: So we're now in the full portion.
Speaker 9: Of the dock.
Speaker 15: People're all three commissioners will be voting. East side gets
Speaker 15: ten minutes in which to make your presentation. We'll start
Speaker 15: with the supporters, followed by anyone in opposition the investigators
Speaker 15: recommending an extension. And this is on the leoscope. Okase
Speaker 15: I had to number thirty one on page sixteen and
Speaker 15: made proceed.
Speaker 10: At that point, I see Scott move towards the podium.
Speaker 10: I see Jonathan sitting at the front table, and I
Speaker 10: just remember thinking, they know it's desperation time, they know
Speaker 10: where things stand, and so they're not going to hold
Speaker 10: anything back.
Speaker 8: And I just had that feeling that it was just
Speaker 8: going to be not your typical parole hearing.
Speaker 12: Good morning, commissioners.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 12: My name is Scott Cupp. I'm an attorney representing Leo Schofield, obviously,
Speaker 12: but there's many, many other attorneys. A lot of them
Speaker 12: are here today, and I would just like to mention them.
Speaker 4: Briefly.
Speaker 10: I was facing his back. I couldn't see his eyes,
Speaker 10: but I was watching the commissioners and there was like
Speaker 10: this anticipation. I could sort of see it in their
Speaker 10: eyes through me.
Speaker 12: The first thing I would like you to hear from
Speaker 12: is a letter written by Jesse Sam who's Michelle Schofield's brother.
Speaker 12: It was written for the last parole hearing, which was
Speaker 12: in twenty twenty. For some reason, and maybe the state
Speaker 12: will tell us here today, it was not read. I
Speaker 12: have no idea why it wasn't read. I think it
Speaker 12: was part of the record, but I want to read
Speaker 12: it now. Make it part of the record. January two
Speaker 12: twenty twenty in reference to Leo R. Schofield prole hearing
Speaker 12: one eight twenty. To whom it may concern, I'm not
Speaker 12: going to attend the prole hearing of Leo R. Schofield. However,
Speaker 12: I do ask you to read this letter and take
Speaker 12: my comments into consideration as you make a decision about
Speaker 12: granting Leo parole. I was sixteen at the time of
Speaker 12: my sister's murder. I never knew the details of the case.
Speaker 12: Because of my age, I had assumed the detectives and
Speaker 12: the state involved had substantial evidence beyond a shadow of
Speaker 12: a doubt to convict Leoschofield first degree murder. Over the years,
Speaker 12: I've done some research and have found many inconsistencies and
Speaker 12: discrepancies in the investigation and the trial. These have led
Speaker 12: to many questions about the state's handling of my sister's murder.
Speaker 12: I'm not one hundred percent convinced Leo is guilty of
Speaker 12: this crime. In fact, for my research, he could be innocent.
Speaker 12: It just seems likely you got the wrong guy. I
Speaker 12: do not have confidence in the conviction of Leo Schofield,
Speaker 12: and I support his request for parole.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 12: Jesse Song At this time, I would like to have
Speaker 12: Senator Jonathan Martin speak.
Speaker 10: And then Jonathan Rose. And you know when he stands
Speaker 10: up at the podium, it looks like the podium's up
Speaker 10: to his waist and he's just staring at the commissioners intensely.
Speaker 4: Good morning.
Speaker 11: My name is Jonathan Martin. I've known Scott Cup for
Speaker 11: many years. I met him when I was a prosecutor.
Speaker 11: I've handled Holmes cases. Everything that I've seen about this
Speaker 11: case turns my stomach. I don't know why Leo Schofield
Speaker 11: wasn't released years ago when he was before this board.
Speaker 11: You have the opportunity to release him immediately. He wasn't
Speaker 11: released last time because he wasn't remorseful. You cannot be
Speaker 11: remorseful for something you did not do. It's not your
Speaker 11: job to determine guilt or innocence. But if you are
Speaker 11: going to consider whether somebody is remorseful and whether they
Speaker 11: should be released today or should have been released years ago,
Speaker 11: you have to at least crack the transcript. You have
Speaker 11: to at least wonder why the fingerprints of a serial
Speaker 11: killer were inside Michelle's car And we're never tested, and
Speaker 11: we're never presented to the jury in Polk County over
Speaker 11: thirty years ago. I was five years old when Leos
Speaker 11: Goofield started doing time for this murder. I stand by
Speaker 11: the criminal justice system here in the state of Florida.
Speaker 11: We're one of the best on the planet. But there's
Speaker 11: a whole lot of doubt right now about how good
Speaker 11: we are. You guys have the chance today to fix that.
Speaker 11: You have the chance to restore credibility to a system
Speaker 11: that thousands of people.
Speaker 15: Know.
Speaker 11: An injustice happened, and it's continuing every single second. The
Speaker 11: Leoscofield remains behind bars.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 12: Next, I'd like to read a portion of Leo's statement
Speaker 12: in is a pearl packet that you.
Speaker 8: All have, but I just like the highlight of part
Speaker 8: of it.
Speaker 10: Leo's letter I thought was really beautiful, really powerful.
Speaker 12: First, I understand the p is not based upon guilt
Speaker 12: or innocence, but solely a function of grace from this commission.
Speaker 12: Having shared that, I must say he.
Speaker 10: Talked about why he can't show remorse, and he talked
Speaker 10: about the deals he'd been given to get out of
Speaker 10: prison and the fact that he stood on his innocence
Speaker 10: it worked against him.
Speaker 12: Ask only that you consider the fact that I have
Speaker 12: stood on my innocence in the face of plea agreements
Speaker 12: that would have allowed me to go home many years
Speaker 12: ago without parole or even probation, a fact of the
Speaker 12: record that is known by the state.
Speaker 10: And I do believe that Leo's words made a difference
Speaker 10: in there. If it's submitted to them, maybe they read it,
Speaker 10: maybe they don't. Maybe they think, oh, all these letters
Speaker 10: are the same, and they skim it. But Scott was saying,
Speaker 10: you're not going to skim this. I'm going to tell
Speaker 10: you what he said, and it's important that you know.
Speaker 12: This of innocence he or she does not actually possess
Speaker 12: in hopes of convincing a commission that doesn't weigh guilt
Speaker 12: or innocence to let them go based upon that innocence.
Speaker 12: That simply does not make sense. The only right conclusion
Speaker 12: that can be arrived at with my situation is that
Speaker 12: I am forced to maintain my innocence simply because I'm
Speaker 12: actually and factually innocent.
Speaker 8: Leo Schofield.
Speaker 7: Innocent.
Speaker 12: Innocent innocence. That's been an elephant in the room for
Speaker 12: way too long. It was the elephant in the room
Speaker 12: in twenty twelve. It was the elephant in the room
Speaker 12: in twenty fifteen. It was the elephant in the room
Speaker 12: in twenty twenty. We'll look around. The elephant's gone. Okay,
Speaker 12: it's out there. He is innocent. What I'm asking you
Speaker 12: to do is to search your heart. This isn't difficult.
Speaker 12: I think you all know what's gone on hereveral of
Speaker 12: you I believe know he is in fact innocent. One
Speaker 12: of the things that disturbed me in our meetings was
Speaker 12: the issue that guilt and innocence is not in our purview.
Speaker 12: It should always be in our purview. I don't care
Speaker 12: find a way to make it part of your purview.
Speaker 12: This man does not deserve one more night in prison.
Speaker 12: He's been in there for thirty five years. I suspect
Speaker 12: you're going to hear from the state from another of
Speaker 12: the victims. I do not disparage anything that any of
Speaker 12: them might say. I just hope you keep it into perspective.
Speaker 12: He's been grieving for thirty five years with the added
Speaker 12: thing of giving up his life for something he didn't do.
Speaker 12: He grieves every single day for Michelle Schofield. Please, I
Speaker 12: implore you do not extend him two years for yet
Speaker 12: another program. Send him to the Noah's house and do
Speaker 12: it now. Thank you very much.
Speaker 15: Thank you everyone for being here. I know some of
Speaker 15: you travel great distance, so thank you. I'm not going
Speaker 15: to now move to opposition if.
Speaker 3: You would like to speak now.
Speaker 10: It was the state's turn to make its case. We
Speaker 10: weren't sure if someone from the State Attorney's office would
Speaker 10: even show up, but they did send a representative, Assistant
Speaker 10: State Attorney Jacob Or.
Speaker 5: I've written or over the years. He handles the office's
Speaker 5: pr but he's not the face we were expecting. He
Speaker 5: doesn't have the kind of history or emotional connection to
Speaker 5: Leo's case that Jerry Hill and Victoria Avalon have.
Speaker 15: You can rest oar six now morning, mister Oregon.
Speaker 17: Thank you commissioners again.
Speaker 4: My name is Jacob Or.
Speaker 17: I'm an assistant state attorney in the tenth Circuit. We
Speaker 17: just heard a lot of talk about justice and what
Speaker 17: is justice. I became a prosecutor fifteen years ago, and
Speaker 17: in that time I have learned that you cannot pursue
Speaker 17: justice unless you first pursue truth. In this case, That's
Speaker 17: what the court systems have been doing for me many years.
Speaker 17: I've told others I think this is the most reviewed
Speaker 17: case in the history of Polk County. And I really
Speaker 17: don't know if that's true, but I think it might
Speaker 17: be because we've looked at this, we've litigated this, and
Speaker 17: every time we go to court, we relitigate and we
Speaker 17: re review the case based on the actual transcripts and
Speaker 17: the actual available evidence, and every one of those reviews
Speaker 17: results in the same outcome that there's overwhelming evidence in
Speaker 17: support of the guilty verdict that was handed down many
Speaker 17: years ago. But that's not really why y'all are here today.
Speaker 17: You're here today to decide if this inmate is going
Speaker 17: to get out of jail. And I won't go too
Speaker 17: much in detail into the facts of the case because
Speaker 17: I know you've heard some of them before, and you
Speaker 17: know there was a heinous murder committed. But you got
Speaker 17: to compare that with what has been a long time
Speaker 17: of being a very good inmate. I'm telling you about truth,
Speaker 17: and I think we need to recognize the fact that
Speaker 17: he's been a very good inmate. But you know, the
Speaker 17: law doesn't allow being a good inmate alone to allow
Speaker 17: for release, You've got to do some determination of what
Speaker 17: risk is posed to the public and how he will
Speaker 17: conduct himself if he gets out, and I know you've
Speaker 17: got some guidelines. I'll help you with that, but that's
Speaker 17: going to be a challenge for you. I think in
Speaker 17: this case, even the victim's family appears to be split
Speaker 17: on whether or not he should be out. And I
Speaker 17: think you're going to hear from someone in a moment.
Speaker 17: And to ask this from me from the State Attorney's
Speaker 17: office on behalf of the state of Florida, is that
Speaker 17: you'd treat this inmate the same as any other, that
Speaker 17: you would do an honest review of the record, apply
Speaker 17: your guidelines and then make your decision. And if you'll
Speaker 17: do it that way and ignore all the show that's
Speaker 17: going on along with it, and just do an honest
Speaker 17: review of this record, then I think you'll make a
Speaker 17: just decision. I want to yield whatever time I have left.
Speaker 10: Two And then they mentioned that at the end of
Speaker 10: his presentation, which was pretty short, it was only a
Speaker 10: couple of minutes, they mentioned that they had somebody from
Speaker 10: the family, and that someone turned out to be Michelle's
Speaker 10: other brother, Ricky Som.
Speaker 15: Thank you very much, all right? Do we have the
Speaker 15: victim online? Mister Som, I don't know if you can
Speaker 15: hear me. But you just pressed our six to get through.
Speaker 4: I'm here, Yes, go ahead, Okay. So I'm Ricky Song,
Speaker 4: I'm I guess I'm the brother of bunch of this
Speaker 4: sister that was killed, basically, and I just want to
Speaker 4: say that a lot of people have, let's just say,
Speaker 4: distorted the truth of this case, and that I was there.
Speaker 4: I was a kid. My brother might write in and
Speaker 4: say that he was too young to understand anything. I
Speaker 4: was the older brother. I was not too young to
Speaker 4: not understand everything. So there's a lot of miss We'll say,
Speaker 4: there's a lot of misinformation from this twenty twenty TV show,
Speaker 4: and a lot of the things that Leo and his
Speaker 4: family have said had definitely been not truth. It's their truth,
Speaker 4: and that's okay. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: Leo did not come to my house and talk to
Speaker 4: my dad that night. Leo did not this, Leo did
Speaker 4: not do a lot of those things because I was there,
Speaker 4: I lived it. I know where my sister was. You know,
Speaker 4: some people have asked me, you know, did Leo kill
Speaker 4: my sister? And you know, I believe in God, and
Speaker 4: I believe in the courts and the courts got it right.
Speaker 4: And at the end of the day, you know, if
Speaker 4: Leo has to sit in prison for forty five years
Speaker 4: or fifty years because he tortured my sister, he mentally
Speaker 4: tortured her, he violently tortured her, at the end of
Speaker 4: the day, he should stay in jail for the rest
Speaker 4: of life period, regardless of where this case, what the
Speaker 4: case is pending on right now at this moment. But
Speaker 4: from my point of view is that this isn't very
Speaker 4: emotional to me. It's mostly justice for someone that deserves it,
Speaker 4: and I believe that the court's got a right. I mean,
Speaker 4: I'll get off the phone and let you guys finish up.
Speaker 4: Sorry for taking every time.
Speaker 15: We appreciate you calling in. Thank you for your input.
Speaker 15: All right, anyone else in opposition wishing to speak? All right,
Speaker 15: hearing NOTTA, we will proceed with the vote, starting with
Speaker 15: Commissioner Davison.
Speaker 18: Yes, in the matter of Leo Schofield. I've had the
Speaker 18: opportunity to review this case, and it's entirety. I listened
Speaker 18: very closely to the testimony, both in support and opposition.
Speaker 16: I've had a.
Speaker 18: Series of meetings prior to today. I've listened to certain
Speaker 18: documentary items that have been put together on behalf of Mississcofield.
Speaker 18: I've reviewed documents.
Speaker 4: That are.
Speaker 5: Commissioner Davison was the first to announce his decision. He
Speaker 5: recommended that Leo Bi transferred to Everglade's Correctional to participate
Speaker 5: in the lifer's program for twenty four months two years
Speaker 5: at another prison before he'd be eligible for parole again.
Speaker 18: Is to agree with the commission Investigator. I have a
Speaker 18: twenty four month extension based upon good cause and exceptional
Speaker 18: circumstance to allow the offender to complete programs that contain
Speaker 18: self betterment and transitional components. I would set a new
Speaker 18: ppr D at June twenty four five, and.
Speaker 10: So they would reestablish his parole for two years. And
Speaker 10: it's exactly what he told us at our meeting, and
Speaker 10: after listening to all that, it was pretty clear he
Speaker 10: just had not changed his opinion.
Speaker 16: At all, hearing that nothing that had been said before
Speaker 16: him had changed his mind. I mean, I thought it
Speaker 16: was done right then and there.
Speaker 19: Thank you, Commissioner Wyatt, thank you ma'am, thank you all
Speaker 19: for your testimony here today. And to echo the words
Speaker 19: of Commissioner Davis and I to have reviewed this case
Speaker 19: in its entirety and had several meetings regarding the case
Speaker 19: of mister Schofield.
Speaker 10: Commissioner Wyant went next, and then he was recommending eighteen months,
Speaker 10: so he brought it down from two years to a
Speaker 10: year and a half.
Speaker 19: I also note that mister Schofield has had a clean
Speaker 19: record as it relates to dr for many years and
Speaker 19: has accomplished some things while in prison. My concern is
Speaker 19: to make sure he is ready to go if given
Speaker 19: the opportunity, so I believe that he also needs some
Speaker 19: further program participation. I agree with the FIUCTP program referral.
Speaker 19: I have an eighteen month extension rather than twenty four
Speaker 19: based on the good cause and exceptional circumstances, and that
Speaker 19: being the participation.
Speaker 10: And then the Chair Commissioner kuon Rod. She went next,
Speaker 10: but by this point it was kind of over, but
Speaker 10: at least there was the It went from twenty four
Speaker 10: months to eighteen months. That was something different. And then
Speaker 10: Commissioner kuon Ron and her response and decision was really nuanced.
Speaker 15: I'd like to say that our role is not to
Speaker 15: determine guilt or innocence. I know that's the subject of
Speaker 15: a lot of people right now. I reviewed all the records,
Speaker 15: and I can tell you that I think the State
Speaker 15: Attorney's Office with the tenth Judicial Circuit has done their job.
Speaker 15: They reviewed the evidence and they made the call based
Speaker 15: on the evidence that they received. The fact is that
Speaker 15: mister Schofield has been tried by a jury of his tears,
Speaker 15: and his conviction has been upheld by numerous courts, and
Speaker 15: that's what we as commissioners are facing, and we have
Speaker 15: to respect what has been done in the court system. However,
Speaker 15: our job is to look at a person's overall record
Speaker 15: and determine whether or not they are suitable for parole,
Speaker 15: whether they pose a risk to society, and whether or
Speaker 15: not they have a good transitional program so that they
Speaker 15: can be successful. My vote is to parole.
Speaker 5: Commissioner koon Rod votes for parole. She supports Scott Cupp's
Speaker 5: request for Leo's immediate release to a halfway house, but.
Speaker 15: The two commissioners have agreed to extend. I would to
Speaker 15: avoid a three way split. I would move to Commissioner
Speaker 15: Wyant's eighteen month extension, and I would ask if either
Speaker 15: commissioner would consider a one year next interview.
Speaker 19: Days I'm sure it and look, in this case, if
Speaker 19: you feel comfortable, I would acquiesk to a twelve month
Speaker 19: extension rather than eighteen. I just like I said, he's
Speaker 19: been in a long time and he's going to need
Speaker 19: program aiming to be successful. I understand and support as overwhelming,
Speaker 19: and that's important in my decision. But I believe he
Speaker 19: does need some time in the CTPFIU program to prepare him.
Speaker 19: So if you're willing to actu as, I would move
Speaker 19: down to one year in the program with an effect
Speaker 19: of March twenty.
Speaker 10: Four, and very quickly right away, Commissioner Wyant said, I
Speaker 10: accept that, and so it went to twelve months.
Speaker 15: I will move to that position, and I agree with
Speaker 15: the referral to the CTP program. And I also just
Speaker 15: want to make one more comment. I've spoken with a
Speaker 15: lot of people in this case, including Jerry Hill, and
Speaker 15: I have to say I've known him for a long time.
Speaker 15: He's an honorable man. He is a man of great integrity,
Speaker 15: and he represents the ten Circuit well and I respect
Speaker 15: his opinion. I value his opinion. I spoke to him
Speaker 15: about this case before I came to my decision, and
Speaker 15: I spoke with the current state attorney. I think everybody's
Speaker 15: doing their job, and I just wanted to put that
Speaker 15: on the record. So our final decision is to move
Speaker 15: mister Schofield's case to June twenty four, twenty twenty four,
Speaker 15: with a next interview date of March twenty four, and
Speaker 15: referral to the ctp FIU program at Everglade's ci And
Speaker 15: thank you everyone for taking your time to be here.
Speaker 15: We appreciate it.
Speaker 16: I I just needed to step outside for a number two.
Speaker 5: After the decision, Chrissy, Ashley, Scott Copp, Senator Martin, everyone
Speaker 5: who showed up to support Leo, we all left the hearing.
Speaker 8: Room and walked outside.
Speaker 5: Chrissy and Ashley were crying and being comforted by friends
Speaker 5: and family. There was anger and frustration and concerns about
Speaker 5: how Leo would take the news.
Speaker 9: You can't trust that.
Speaker 8: How do you think your dad's gonna respond to the news? O.
Speaker 9: This is not gonna be good. This is not gonna
Speaker 9: be a good thing.
Speaker 5: When we went outside, we also talked to some parolees.
Speaker 5: They'd shown up to support some of the other people
Speaker 5: who were up for parole that day, but after Leo's decision,
Speaker 5: they saw that people were upset, and they came over
Speaker 5: to talk to us. If you got that was your decision,
Speaker 5: and you got twelve months.
Speaker 20: If I got this decision, I'll be stat I have
Speaker 20: guys that friends that have been out fifty years or
Speaker 20: forty seven years. Anybody will pay you when the life
Speaker 20: scense is getting that program. You can't get no better.
Speaker 20: My name is Gregory bullet Ard.
Speaker 4: Appreciate it, blessed?
Speaker 3: Did we send to that program?
Speaker 5: There was no immediate consensus about what had happened in
Speaker 5: that hearing room and what it meant and how to
Speaker 5: feel about it. It wasn't the scenario Leo's friends and
Speaker 5: family had been hoping for, but it wasn't the worst
Speaker 5: case scenario either. Everyone seemed to be moving through waves
Speaker 5: of varying emotions.
Speaker 10: But I didn't know, I did.
Speaker 8: I didn't know Johnathan was gonna I'm glad he did.
Speaker 12: But Jonathan was going to come and speak like that.
Speaker 4: He was great.
Speaker 12: Didn't take that. Oh that was tremendous.
Speaker 6: So yeah, let me ask you to answer your question.
Speaker 1: I think I was outraged. And then when she said
Speaker 1: what she said, and I'm like.
Speaker 12: I thought she was going to backpeddle there for a minute.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna I was like, what the heck's happening?
Speaker 1: And then when he went down, my whole, my whole
Speaker 1: thought just shifted.
Speaker 6: I think, I'm not trying to put I'm not trying
Speaker 6: to put like a good spin on it and make
Speaker 6: everyone feel better. But they conceded that he's been a
Speaker 6: great it made it's the first time they've done that.
Speaker 6: They didn't talk about the facts of the case. It Oh,
Speaker 6: it was the first time they've done that. So I
Speaker 6: think it's a lot of important steps in the right
Speaker 6: direction to put him on the Clyde path if everything
Speaker 6: goes well.
Speaker 5: To It was also, in many ways, a reunion of sorts.
Speaker 5: All these people who'd worked on Leo's case through its
Speaker 5: various stages across three and a half decades were standing
Speaker 5: together sharing the moment. Don Morris, Richard Bartman, Pat McKenna,
Speaker 5: Seth Miller. Familiar faces were everywhere. Some were reconnecting for
Speaker 5: the first time in years.
Speaker 6: You know, like it's like you're talking the team back
Speaker 6: together again. You always had crazy.
Speaker 4: Getting crazier.
Speaker 1: I like it.
Speaker 6: I like, the last time we're altogether in front of Judge.
Speaker 21: Yeah, the last time thirteen years ago something like that
Speaker 21: ten or nine.
Speaker 5: And among the familiar faces, there were new faces too.
Speaker 14: Talking to Gilbert just.
Speaker 16: A listener and support our Yeah, it's.
Speaker 3: I feel like it's better than nothing.
Speaker 5: Everyone seemed to gather around the attorneys who knew Leo's
Speaker 5: case best and who knew how to put what just
Speaker 5: happened into context.
Speaker 21: I mean, he never got anything before today. They never
Speaker 21: they had their footspin on the guests for thirty five years.
Speaker 21: So the idea that somebody would come in and not
Speaker 21: just flash autopsy pictures, which is what they've been doing
Speaker 21: for all these reviews, and that kind of argument is
Speaker 21: a testament to what you and Kelsey did. It's a
Speaker 21: testament to what Scott has done all these years. It's
Speaker 21: a testament to what Seth did, all the people that
Speaker 21: have worked on the case. But I mean you and
Speaker 21: got us to this point. That brought the kind of attention,
Speaker 21: that got their attention, that got the whole world's attention,
Speaker 21: that brought pressure to bear, and now he's got a
Speaker 21: shot at release, which he never had before. I mean
Speaker 21: he's never had anything to look forward to.
Speaker 4: Nothing.
Speaker 21: I mean they've slammed doors in his face. The courts
Speaker 21: have done it, the parole boards have done it, like
Speaker 21: Seth saying, this is the first time anybody did anything
Speaker 21: other than this say screw you, which is thirty five years.
Speaker 21: What's what we've been hearing so well, it's not what
Speaker 21: everybody wants, and it's not what should have been done,
Speaker 21: and it's not ultimately justice, it's.
Speaker 4: It's it's a.
Speaker 21: Step he's never received before. And from what's set saying it,
Speaker 21: you know, it looks pretty good where he's going, the
Speaker 21: program he's going. You know, maybe next year we're in
Speaker 21: a place we want to be.
Speaker 5: Over the course of an hour or so, the collective
Speaker 5: mood was beginning to shift. Leo's grandsons were running around
Speaker 5: barefoot in the grass. Heels were kicked off and ties removed.
Speaker 1: So I can't tell you if I'm excited or not.
Speaker 15: You know, by I'm excited about this is one of
Speaker 15: the next stepping stones from getting out.
Speaker 1: But we're not going to stop here.
Speaker 16: We're hoping to push for exoneration for sure.
Speaker 5: So slowly the reasons for hope and gratitude began to
Speaker 5: accumulate their Senator Jonathan Martin, who used his authority as
Speaker 5: an elected representative to speak about injustice and innocence. His
Speaker 5: speech was a departure from the usual statements heard in
Speaker 5: parole hearings. The state's approach was different this time. There
Speaker 5: was no pounding on the podium, no autopsy photos, no
Speaker 5: comments about Leo's lack of remorse. Instead, Jacob Orr pointed
Speaker 5: to court rulings and procedures. He even referred to the
Speaker 5: heinous murder of Michelle Schofield without saying exactly who was
Speaker 5: responsible for the crime, and he acknowledged Leo's outstanding record
Speaker 5: of his time in prison. One of the commissioners actually
Speaker 5: voted for parole. Commissioner Kunrod was prepared to send Leo
Speaker 5: directly to a halfway house, something that we've been told
Speaker 5: never happens. And Commissioner Wyant, the former Polk County cop
Speaker 5: we'd completely written off. He could have easily agreed to
Speaker 5: Davison's twenty four month recommendation, but by deciding on eighteen
Speaker 5: months instead, he opened the conversation to compromise, and he
Speaker 5: agreed to reducing the recommendation to twelve months, and really
Speaker 5: it might not even be twelve full months. Leo's parole
Speaker 5: process will begin again in March of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: It was outrage and then disappointment, and then confusion and
Speaker 1: then release.
Speaker 4: Take a picture ish.
Speaker 10: Yeah, so okay, but then some of the other well,
Speaker 10: technically this was a denial of parole. There were signs
Speaker 10: if you look closely, something has changed. We all began
Speaker 10: to recognize it. Leo won't be released tomorrow. But for
Speaker 10: the first time, the very first time, there's an end insight.
Speaker 3: I you know, I'm.
Speaker 1: It's like weird because I'm like happy, but I'm not happy,
Speaker 1: but I'm I'm happy. It could have been much worse.
Speaker 1: It could have been much worse.
Speaker 5: While we were all standing out there, Chrissy was able
Speaker 5: to get on the phone with She asked for privacy
Speaker 5: and stepped away to deliver the news.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be the first one to tell him,
Speaker 1: and long story short, I was able to talk to him.
Speaker 1: I told him what happened, and uh, he said, it's
Speaker 1: nothing but a meatball. We're gonna put gas in the motorcycle,
Speaker 1: keep it running. We got this, and then we got this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: nothing about a meatball.
Speaker 16: We got this.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of work, a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of things at the eleventh hour, right, I think all
Speaker 1: those prayers worked.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we just have to keep gassing the motorcycle.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 1: Yes, this is not what we wanted, but this is
Speaker 1: what we have, and this is what we're gonna do. Right. Shoulders,
Speaker 1: shoulders back, head, Hi, We're gonna do it. Rita, rita, Lourie.
Speaker 9: I spoke to Leo.
Speaker 1: He's cool, he's good, he's good, he said, you'll love this, Lourie,
Speaker 1: he said nothing. I'm better meet while. Just keep gassing
Speaker 1: that motorcycle.
Speaker 3: Yeah, baby, bring it on.
Speaker 5: After the hearing, Kelsey and I returned to our Tallahassee
Speaker 5: airbnb along with our producers Karra and Britt to get
Speaker 5: started on this episode. We worked through the afternoon and
Speaker 5: evening and into the night, never straying too far from
Speaker 5: the phone. We were anticipating a call from Leo, but
Speaker 5: it wasn't until the next morning when he was able
Speaker 5: to call. I just have a quick question for you,
Speaker 5: because we talked to Chrissy right after she talked to you,
Speaker 5: and she was smiling and beaming, and she said, Leo
Speaker 5: said this is a meatball, and we didn't quite understand that.
Speaker 18: What does that mean?
Speaker 4: A meatball?
Speaker 22: Yeah, that's my little sarcastic way of saying this is
Speaker 22: we can handle this. We've we've been up against much,
Speaker 22: much bigger giants, and this is not I really wanted
Speaker 22: her rather than her see this as a hurdle. You
Speaker 22: know it will become The Paro Commission has really changed
Speaker 22: that part of the narrative.
Speaker 4: For me.
Speaker 22: It's no longer a hurdle. This is I think the
Speaker 22: message they were sending to us is that we care
Speaker 22: and we want you to succeed, and this is the
Speaker 22: way we think that you succeed best. And so I
Speaker 22: told Chrissy, I said, an all a hard thing we've
Speaker 22: had to do in the thirty five years we've been
Speaker 22: in here. This is a meatball.
Speaker 4: We got this.
Speaker 22: It's no problem at all. We're going to be able
Speaker 22: to do this. She was obviously a little emotional, a
Speaker 22: lot emotional. It was hard for me to read her
Speaker 22: voice right away. You know, I'm pretty good at being
Speaker 22: able to detect in her voice whether something is good
Speaker 22: or bad, and you know, she was so emotional yesterday
Speaker 22: that I wasn't really sure if it was good or bad.
Speaker 22: But she said to me, I'm wanting to listen to
Speaker 22: the end, and that's always a warning that there's going
Speaker 22: to be something in between now in the end that
Speaker 22: I might not like. But I needed to get to
Speaker 22: the end before I could really weigh it, so I did.
Speaker 22: I just remained quiet, and she kind of broke it
Speaker 22: down to me, step by step everything that happened, and
Speaker 22: basically told me that, you know, we were going to
Speaker 22: end up going Eviglades instead of the halfway house. My
Speaker 22: first inclination. Because she was so emotional and I could
Speaker 22: hear the kids in the background, I knew that no
Speaker 22: matter what I was feeling at the time, I just
Speaker 22: I had to make sure that everybody there was all right.
Speaker 22: I had to make sure my wife was all right.
Speaker 22: And so I wanted her to know that I'm okay,
Speaker 22: and I want everybody to know that I'm okay. When
Speaker 22: when when mister Orr was given an opportunity to speak,
Speaker 22: you know, for the state, there wasn't any more of
Speaker 22: this lambastic assassination of my character. Accusations that were you know,
Speaker 22: flown around in previous hearings and and basically you know,
Speaker 22: telling the commission, we want you to treat them as
Speaker 22: you would any other inmate and stuff. I can live
Speaker 22: with that, and I can appreciate that, you know, because
Speaker 22: I cannot tell you what damage it does to my
Speaker 22: heart to hear that stuff and even known it's not true,
Speaker 22: even though and the people who are on my you know,
Speaker 22: support system, know that it's not true, just for them
Speaker 22: having to suffer through that and hear that, the embarrassment
Speaker 22: of it, it's almost too much to take in. And
Speaker 22: I was so nervous about that part of it. I
Speaker 22: was just terribly fearful of what, you know, maybe Gerry
Speaker 22: Hill's going to do avalon whoever else they signed up there,
Speaker 22: and I just did not want to hear that, and
Speaker 22: I didn't want anybody else to have to hear that,
Speaker 22: because it's devastating. And you know, that not happening yesterday
Speaker 22: to me personally, was liberating in and of itself. It
Speaker 22: was kind of like a signal saying, you know what
Speaker 22: we're going to We're going to give them an opportunity
Speaker 22: to get home. And then the musing of the commission itself,
Speaker 22: you know, where they start off with twenty four months
Speaker 22: and end up at twelve with the comeback, and you know,
Speaker 22: essentially nine nine months is not that far. Two years
Speaker 22: would have been too long. I think we came away
Speaker 22: from that just about as well as we could have
Speaker 22: had hoped, you know, aside from not wanting aside from
Speaker 22: wanting to go to the halfway house, and that would
Speaker 22: have been great. This is a really really positive thing.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 22: I've got a lot of people who've wrote to me
Speaker 22: over the the last twenty four hours, and a lot
Speaker 22: of them are angry. A lot of them are expressing sorrow,
Speaker 22: and you know, I totally appreciate that, but I want
Speaker 22: them to see the good in it. If it was
Speaker 22: not for the support, if it was not for the
Speaker 22: work of the podcast that you have done, Kelsey has done,
Speaker 22: you know, Team Leo, you know, we wouldn't be here.
Speaker 22: And this was a very big victory for me. And
Speaker 22: I want them to be able to see the sense
Speaker 22: of accomplishment that we've all been able to, you know,
Speaker 22: put together by believing in the truth, standing for the truth,
Speaker 22: praying for the truth, and coming together and convincing people
Speaker 22: of that same truth. We've been walking in a tunnel
Speaker 22: in utter darkness for thirty five years and well, I
Speaker 22: mean not being able to see two feet in front
Speaker 22: of ours face, just putting one foot in front of
Speaker 22: the other, going forward, hopefully we're going forward, not really knowing,
Speaker 22: just believing and trusting. We have never had a light
Speaker 22: at the end of this tunnel. Ever, yesterday a big,
Speaker 22: bright light was lit. We can see it. It's at
Speaker 22: the end of nine months and it's solid and now
Speaker 22: without you know, the real opposition from the state and
Speaker 22: me being able to go to this program in nine months,
Speaker 22: you know, there's no reason why we won't be paroled.
Speaker 22: And so that's a very positive thing. And nine months
Speaker 22: is going to go by really really fast, especially for me.
Speaker 22: This is really more for the pro commissioners. They are
Speaker 22: rightly wanting to be comfortable about their decision, and it's
Speaker 22: my job to go down there and make sure they
Speaker 22: know it's going to be okay. We're all going to
Speaker 22: be okay when this is over with. So, you know,
Speaker 22: nine months at an institution that's an incentivized camp number one,
Speaker 22: so they have no troublemakers there at all. You get
Speaker 22: in any trouble at every grade, you're on the next
Speaker 22: bus leaving. So you're going to be surrounded by men
Speaker 22: who would all, like mind, are trying to do the
Speaker 22: same thing. They're all trying to get out of prison.
Speaker 22: And here's another caveat to this that I just realized
Speaker 22: this is very important. Going through that program allows me
Speaker 22: immediate access back into the prisons for other inmates, because
Speaker 22: that's part of their program. Part of the FIU program
Speaker 22: is to give back to the prison population. That is
Speaker 22: exactly what I would want to do if the only
Speaker 22: way that could happen with me being convicted felon on
Speaker 22: the other side with parole, the only way to get
Speaker 22: back in to help my brothers in here is to
Speaker 22: go through that program. I gladly go through nine months
Speaker 22: of that. So, you know, going down there for nine
Speaker 22: months and being able to do this program and getting
Speaker 22: the ability to come back and help others that are
Speaker 22: on the same path, that's very very important to me.
Speaker 22: I'm really feeling good and and I'm very very gratified
Speaker 22: by yesterday's results, and I want that to be conveyed
Speaker 22: to the many supporters that we have so they can
Speaker 22: feel good about it as well. Here's my fear that
Speaker 22: you know, my story fades into the history books now
Speaker 22: you know, the next new thing comes up, and you know,
Speaker 22: I begin fading away. I can do the nine months.
Speaker 22: What I'm asking from the supporters that I've got is
Speaker 22: that it just helped me get there, you know, when
Speaker 22: this journey hasn't ended yet. I got to get to
Speaker 22: March of next year. I got to do it at
Speaker 22: a prison where I've never been, you know, with people
Speaker 22: that I don't know. I don't know anymore. And I
Speaker 22: still want to fight for exoneration. I still want to
Speaker 22: fight from my freedom because I am innocent being parolled.
Speaker 22: It's just a means to an end. It's not the
Speaker 22: end if it was not for you and the podcast
Speaker 22: and all the people have put that together and the
Speaker 22: millions of people that have supported it. You know, you
Speaker 22: became my watchdog, and you know, and that's tremendous. Jacob Orr,
Speaker 22: Brian Hass. These people weren't here when this story was
Speaker 22: created back long ago. I'm talking about nineteen eighty nine,
Speaker 22: and you know, in the trial and all of that stuff,
Speaker 22: they weren't involved in that. So I like to think
Speaker 22: that maybe maybe the podcast, maybe the exposure to this
Speaker 22: stuff gave them reason to maybe go back and look
Speaker 22: at it themselves. I'd like to think that they have
Speaker 22: heart and you know, and give them some credit for it,
Speaker 22: because I think I told you this before. I want
Speaker 22: to make this to where everybody can come out feeling
Speaker 22: all right about who they are, you know, even Jeremy,
Speaker 22: and especially Jeremy, because at the end of the day,
Speaker 22: nothing we do or say is going to bring my
Speaker 22: life back. And and and in her memory, I really
Speaker 22: want everybody to be all right with where we are
Speaker 22: and where we go from here. And and so I
Speaker 22: want everybody, including the state, to be able to walk
Speaker 22: away from this and be okay, be okay with their
Speaker 22: part in it and knowing that there are better human
Speaker 22: beings for it. And that's my hope. And it might
Speaker 22: be naive to think that way. I think that's possible now.
Speaker 22: It was impossible before Bong Valley. And that's just how
Speaker 22: profound this podcast has been. And I can't even begin
Speaker 22: to tell you how grateful I am to you, to
Speaker 22: Kelsey somehow, she has a connection in my heart and
Speaker 22: I can't even talk to that girl without breaking down crying.
Speaker 22: But from the beginning, from the very beginning, the first
Speaker 22: time we met, I just could see it in her
Speaker 22: eyes as she connected to this in a real heartfelt way.
Speaker 22: And this meant everything to me. And so you know,
Speaker 22: here we are. It's four years and changed later, and
Speaker 22: I'm now nine months away from getting home, and to me,
Speaker 22: that's just amazing. I can't thank you enough for that.
Speaker 22: I want to make sure you thank.
Speaker 4: Her for it.
Speaker 16: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 9: I like, I know you can hear it in my voice.
Speaker 9: I cannot compose myself. I'm just sitting here like listening
Speaker 9: to you and just crying. I mean, you know way
Speaker 9: better than anyone that this has been a roller coaster
Speaker 9: these past couple of days, and there's just been so
Speaker 9: many emotions. I know it's a whole process and we're
Speaker 9: all gonna have to process this, and you especially, but
Speaker 9: I really, like, you know, woke up feeling really really
Speaker 9: good about this today, and like I'm really excited for you,
Speaker 9: Like I feel like, I mean, I'm excited you know
Speaker 9: that you're going to be going to this program, and
Speaker 9: I'm also really excited for like all of the people
Speaker 9: gonna meet there that are gonna have the opportunity to
Speaker 9: meet you and spend time with you. And I know,
Speaker 9: like a big part of this program is like the
Speaker 9: FIU students, and I'm thinking about that as like, you know,
Speaker 9: young people I identify with that, and like how much
Speaker 9: working on your story and hearing from you and knowing
Speaker 9: you has changed my life. And there's gonna be like
Speaker 9: this whole new you know, group of kids who are
Speaker 9: gonna now get that chance to like really get to
Speaker 9: know you, and you're gonna change their lives. And I'm
Speaker 9: that I'm so excited for that. I don't know, I'm
Speaker 9: a mess. I'm like, I'm snotty over here, but like
Speaker 9: I just it's just it's just meant so much to me,
Speaker 9: and I just, you know, I I think like nine
Speaker 9: months is, yeah, that time's gonna go by fast, and
Speaker 9: you're gonna hopefully, you know, be able to connect with
Speaker 9: a bunch of new people. And then nine months from now,
Speaker 9: Team Leo is gonna be like even bigger and more robust,
Speaker 9: and you know, we are all going to be there
Speaker 9: for you when you know, you get out for real.
Speaker 9: And I'm excited for that.
Speaker 22: Well, if you guys are willing to do this nine
Speaker 22: months with me, I'm willing to go down there and
Speaker 22: oh my gosh, absolutely.
Speaker 10: We're not going anywhere.
Speaker 8: And I just want I just wanted you to know that,
Speaker 8: and you know, we think about you all the time
Speaker 8: and so great to hear your voice and hear you
Speaker 8: feeling optimistic.
Speaker 22: Thank you, Thank you both. I love you guys, and
Speaker 22: we'll talk again soon, right, yeah, absolutely you guys rest
Speaker 22: before you come home.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love you.
Speaker 22: You are beautiful. Thank you so much for all you've done.
Speaker 22: You guys are the masters. Will love you, Gilbert, take care, buddy,
Speaker 22: Love you too, to
Speaker 8: Bye bye